THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 08 Mar 2015, 08:38

Title: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Mar 2015, 08:38
So, Faye has a support group, Dora is at risk of screwing up another relationship and Marigold is stressing out about her digestive problems! What could possibly happen next.

As said in the previous weekly thread, my favourite idea for this week is for Marten and Claire to find out that their carefree boss suddenly has cares on her shoulders. It might not go beyond them giving her a hug of reassurance this week but I do think they'll try to help out. We just might see Faye's arrival at the support group evening too.

What do you think?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 08 Mar 2015, 10:44
I get the feeling we're going to see an apology from Dora to Tai, but not much more on that front - remember, it was Sven who told Marten about Dora's shitty exes, not Dora. I would wager she's not told Tai either, and that nobody else (specifically Marten) has mentioned it. I think we might be seeing either Marten or Dora explain just why she's so closed off, but I don't expect she'll open up much more than that.

Shame, really. I miss happy, flirty Dora :(
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 11:41
I'm a bit conflicted.  On one hand, Marten and Claire trying to reassure Tai at the library would show the three of them interacting in a way that doesn't show off how adorable and wonderful Marten and Claire are as a couple, which would be great!  But giving us more of Dora's side (or more of her and Tai trying to work things out) would give her some much-needed page-time, which hasn't happened lately. She's only appeared in two strips over the past three weeks, showing that she already has doubts about firing Faye and is already letting it affect her other relationships, and we haven't seen much of her since Marten and Claire took over the foreground.  So, more Dora would be great, too.

Maybe we can have both?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 08 Mar 2015, 11:48
You want to have your cake AND eat it? Don't be ridiculous!  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Mar 2015, 11:54
Wouldn't it be funny - okay, maybe more ironic than funny - if Tai ends up realizing she needs help with drug addiction, and ends up at the same meeting as Faye?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 12:18
For casual marijuana use?  Seems unlikely.

Okay, so she also takes LSD (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1279), but it makes her see DRAGONS! and why would she want to stop that?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Mar 2015, 12:21
For casual marijuana use?  Seems unlikely.

It would be relatively simple, in story-telling terms, to turn that off-hand comment to Marten: "Man , I need to cut down on my pot intake" into that being an admission of her having had a growing abuse issue that she's been hiding. For what it's worth, though, I think that it's unlikely.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 08 Mar 2015, 12:24
I get the feeling we're going to see an apology from Dora to Tai, but not much more on that front - remember, it was Sven who told Marten about Dora's shitty exes, not Dora. I would wager she's not told Tai either, and that nobody else (specifically Marten) has mentioned it. I think we might be seeing either Marten or Dora explain just why she's so closed off, but I don't expect she'll open up much more than that.

Shame, really. I miss happy, flirty Dora :(

I think you're right, in that regard, but I don't think her recent treatment of Tai has anything to do with her previous (shitty) relationships. She's not jealous of anybody (there's no 'Faye' in their relationship... yet). She's just closed off and probably isn't used to being in a relationship who is on one hand really, seriously interested in her and on the other hand not a doormat. (Before anybody misinterprets - Marten's not a doormat at the moment, but his relationship with Dora just brought out his worst traits. The night they broke up, he went after her to apologise - for her faults, and he was very aware of that. He just didn't know how to deal with it any other way)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Mar 2015, 13:02
I'm a bit conflicted.  On one hand, Marten and Claire trying to reassure Tai at the library would show the three of them interacting in a way that doesn't show off how adorable and wonderful Marten and Claire are as a couple, which would be great! 

You know, I actually wouldn't mind more sugary sweetness IF the joke is it's annoying/giving cavities to the rest of the cast.

Unlikely to happen in the library with Tai though, because Serious Business.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 08 Mar 2015, 13:04
I get the feeling we're going to see an apology from Dora to Tai, but not much more on that front - remember, it was Sven who told Marten about Dora's shitty exes, not Dora. I would wager she's not told Tai either, and that nobody else (specifically Marten) has mentioned it. I think we might be seeing either Marten or Dora explain just why she's so closed off, but I don't expect she'll open up much more than that.

Shame, really. I miss happy, flirty Dora :(

I think you're right, in that regard, but I don't think her recent treatment of Tai has anything to do with her previous (shitty) relationships. She's not jealous of anybody (there's no 'Faye' in their relationship... yet). She's just closed off and probably isn't used to being in a relationship who is on one hand really, seriously interested in her and on the other hand not a doormat. (Before anybody misinterprets - Marten's not a doormat at the moment, but his relationship with Dora just brought out his worst traits. The night they broke up, he went after her to apologise - for her faults, and he was very aware of that. He just didn't know how to deal with it any other way)
Yeah, I'd agree that it doesn't affect how she treats Tai. What I was getting at was that I don't think Tai is in a position to understand why Dora is so reluctant to open up, and that's going to need to be explained to her. And much as I like Marten, I think it would be perfectly fair to say he certainly used to be a doormat :)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 13:31
I hope that Tai will be able to draw Dora out, I don't like the fact she's shut down this way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 13:47
I'd like to see a strip or two of just Tai and Marten (sans Claire). The two of them are close, and he's given her perspective on things before when she's needed it (especially WRT Dora). With that said, there needs to be a deeper discussion between Tai and Dora, because the fact that each of them is -- at least from what we've seen in-comic -- largely opaque to the other makes the whole thing read as more of a "friends with benefits" situation than a relationship that's viable for the long-term.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Mar 2015, 14:03
While Dora's cleaning house, what will happen to Mieville?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 08 Mar 2015, 14:15
Pintsize could cat-sit!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Mar 2015, 14:17
While Dora's cleaning house, what will happen to Mieville?

You can't control a cat. It has to go.

Thought Dora before the cat kicked her out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 08 Mar 2015, 15:23
perhaps faye will meet and strike up a friendship with juicy at the support group, who could then confide to faye her worries about the intense blond girl with very clean hands who she is sure is following her. from a distance. making notes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 08 Mar 2015, 16:23
Dora & Tai make up all goody two-shoes like Clariten, Faye amazingly has a revelation and becomes a prohibitionist, going around smashing bars with a battle spatula, Hanners sends a tungsten rod to strike Marigold's apartment with her in it, and we go back to more dreckless squee.

And we get to see Steve and Cosette eating breakfast. Because racecar.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 08 Mar 2015, 17:06
Faye amazingly has a revelation and becomes a prohibitionist

Does this mean the girls are going to start wearing cute flapper outfits?

Maybe Marten can save the reputation of the fedora. Nah, far too late.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 17:21
You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

(https://futureworldblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/fedora-vs-trilby.jpg)

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 08 Mar 2015, 17:23
That reminds me... I should buy a cowboy hat before I leave Oklahoma.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 17:31
Does this mean the girls are going to start wearing cute flapper outfits?

Maybe Marten can save the reputation of the fedora. Nah, far too late.

Nah, I think Marten would look better dressed as a newsboy.  Those caps haven't been ruined by MRAs yet, have they?  Dear grog, I hope not. 

(http://www.villagehatshop.com/photos/product/standard/4511390S60766/newsboy-caps/gotham-newsboy-cap.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 17:47
(http://akubra-usa.com/images/1619snd_lg5.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 08 Mar 2015, 17:50
The flat hat and this. (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/sunbeam/4020383.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 17:53
I say ol' boy!

Jolly jaunty jalopy there!!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: stephber on 08 Mar 2015, 17:58
Comic's up! Back away slowly and no one gets hurt.....
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 17:59
Marten, you are a BAD FRIEND.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 18:05
While I don't think Marten's reaction was a good one, it's an understandable one. He may be trying to avoid getting in the middle of Dora and Tai's issues, or trying to avoid saying the wrong thing about Dora and making things worse (let's face it, this is Marten, so odds of that happening are astronomically high). With that said, he could at least have stuck around and let Tai say what she needed to say, while tactfully saying that he wasn't going to take sides.

OTOH, that shouldn't even be necessary; he and Faye both helped the two of them get through a rough patch before this.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 18:06
Mr Reed

You seriously, seriously disappoint me young man.



Bad form young man, bad form.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:07
A bad friend to whom? If he got involved here, he'd catch flak from Dora. In a no-win situation, the only winning move is not to play.

Looks to me like Marten just won.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 08 Mar 2015, 18:09
Marten noped out so goddamn hard Dora is wondering what the hell just happened.

(Not a typo)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 08 Mar 2015, 18:10
Given his deer in the headlights facial expression, I'm rather surprised that he was able to stage a successful retreat.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 08 Mar 2015, 18:11
Marten is going to find Hannelore and ask for a lift to her dad's space station so that he can nope this from orbit.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 08 Mar 2015, 18:12
"We're gonna need a bigger nope"
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:13
All hands on nope, prepare for noping.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 08 Mar 2015, 18:14
this is the first time in a loooong time that I've read a new QC strip and audibly sniggered out loud.

'Atta boy, Marten.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 18:17
OTOH, that shouldn't even be necessary; he and Faye both helped the two of them get through a rough patch before this.

Exactly!  Why nope out now without any information when he talked her through her problems last time (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2582)?  This doesn't feel like Marten at all.

"Oh dear, Tai is having the same trouble with Dora that we had when we were dating.  Maybe if I walk away everything will turn out all right."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:18
Huh. I thought for a bit and came up with a possible alternate reading.

What if Marten's going to the Coffee of Doom to chew Dora out over letting her insecurities sabotage yet another relationship? That'd... completely contradict my earlier post. I guess I have no idea what's going through Marten's head right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 08 Mar 2015, 18:19
What's going through Marten's head right now? An old Polish proverb: "Not my circus. Not my monkeys."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 08 Mar 2015, 18:21
Maybe he has to save all that supportive capacity for Faye?

If he hadn't been through the wringer from that, he might be willing to share some tips from experience, but given what's going on lately, he might be in more of a "nope, spent a whole relationship dealing with Dora drama, not my problem anymore" mode?

edit:

"Not my circus. Not my monkeys."

Perfect
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 18:25
Huh. I thought for a bit and came up with a possible alternate reading.

What if Marten's going to the Coffee of Doom to chew Dora out over letting her insecurities sabotage yet another relationship? That'd... completely contradict my earlier post. I guess I have no idea what's going through Marten's head right now.

That would make a bit more sense; you could read Marten's facial expression, in light of what Tai's told him and what he knows Faye has been through, as, "Oh, shit. Dora's probably in a lot worse shape than she's letting on." To be assertive enough to draw Dora out would be something we haven't seen from Marten up to this point, but it wouldn't be as out of character as it would've seemed a few months ago.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jmucchiello on 08 Mar 2015, 18:25
OTOH, that shouldn't even be necessary; he and Faye both helped the two of them get through a rough patch before this.

Exactly!  Why nope out now without any information when he talked her through her problems last time (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2582)?  This doesn't feel like Marten at all.

"Oh dear, Tai is having the same trouble with Dora that we had when we were dating.  Maybe if I walk away everything will turn out all right."
"Oh dear, Tai is having the exact same trouble with Dora that I had. If I tell her what I already did, break up with Dora, I could lose them both as friends. If I tell her to stick with it that isn't giving her the advice of my personal experience. I better run."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Mar 2015, 18:26
I think we have a general feeling that Marten just "nope'd" there.



Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jmucchiello on 08 Mar 2015, 18:27
Read the comic title: Nothing Good Can Come
So Marten split.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 08 Mar 2015, 18:28
Marten, you are a BAD FRIEND.

Normally I am pleased when I predict the forum reaction, but this one was a little too easy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:29
Do you think anything good could come of Marten going to Dora for a "what the hell?" moment?

Me neither.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 18:35
Do you think anything good could come of Marten going to Dora for a "what the hell?" moment?

Me neither.

I think if it was anybody else, she'd just tell 'em to fuck off. Coming from Marten, it just might surprise her enough to get through.

But, as jmucchiello points out, a tactical retreat was probably his best option.

Quote
"Oh dear, Tai is having the exact same trouble with Dora that I had. If I tell her what I already did, break up with Dora, I could lose them both as friends. If I tell her to stick with it that isn't giving her the advice of my personal experience. I better run."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 08 Mar 2015, 18:40
This is my favorite comic in the entire history of this comic.

I want Marten to keep noping out of the city, out of the state, into an entirely new comic with new characters with nobody else from this one ever mentioned again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 08 Mar 2015, 18:42
I'd do that same exact thing, fuck that mess, ain't my place.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 18:45
Marten, you are a BAD FRIEND.

Normally I am pleased when I predict the forum reaction, but this one was a little too easy.

My first reaction was much harsher, but I decided to tone it down.  Still, I think Marten could've, you know, stuck around and listened to the full story before moonwalking away, but I guess Jeph wanted to go for the easy laughs.

MARTEN: "What's wrong?"
TAI: "Dora and I had an argument. [Quick summary of argument, with concerns over how Dora's been acting since she cut Sven out of her life and fired Faye.]"
MARTEN: "Wow, I had no idea.  I mean, I've been spending a lot of time with Claire, and trying to help Faye out with her problems, but that's no excuse for ignoring everyone else.  Is there anything I can do to help?"
TAI: [Conversation]
MARTEN: [Conversation]
TAI: "Thanks, Marten, that really helps!  I do feel better."
MARTEN: "And just think, I almost walked out on you when you said you were having problems with Dora!  Gosh, that would've been a dick move, right? [Hearty guffaw]"
TAI: [Hearty guffaw]
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 08 Mar 2015, 18:45
You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

[QUOTED IMAGE]

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)

Both are fine hats that people need to get over.

Especially given how many of the girls who complain about them are now sporting this christ-awful sideways-mullet (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b1/4c/e7/b14ce7ad669f3933ba8f15515584c900.jpg) that looks ugh on the insanely hot and puke on anyone less than that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: FunkyTuba on 08 Mar 2015, 18:45

What if Marten's going to the Coffee of Doom to chew Dora out

Marten's headed to Coffee of Nooooope

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:48
You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

[QUOTED IMAGE]

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)

Both are fine hats that people need to get over.

Especially given how many of the girls who complain about them are now sporting this christ-awful sideways-mullet (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b1/4c/e7/b14ce7ad669f3933ba8f15515584c900.jpg) that looks ugh on the insanely hot and puke on anyone less than that.
Shit, we're not going to start having hair arguments in this comic too, are we?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 08 Mar 2015, 18:51
I shave my hair so I don't even have to deal with hair in real life! Get it outta here!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Meilu on 08 Mar 2015, 18:52
This is my favorite comic in the entire history of this comic.

I want Marten to keep noping out of the city, out of the state, into an entirely new comic with new characters with nobody else from this one ever mentioned again.

I like this plan a lot.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Torlek on 08 Mar 2015, 18:53
Marten's train of thought: "I've read enough Questionable Content to know where this is going."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: maxh on 08 Mar 2015, 18:54
OTOH, that shouldn't even be necessary; he and Faye both helped the two of them get through a rough patch before this.

Exactly!  Why nope out now without any information when he talked her through her problems last time (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2582)?  This doesn't feel like Marten at all.

"Oh dear, Tai is having the same trouble with Dora that we had when we were dating.  Maybe if I walk away everything will turn out all right."
If Marten knew how to handle this situation, he'd still be dating Dora. He has no good advice for this.

You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

[QUOTED IMAGE]

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)

Both are fine hats that people need to get over.

Especially given how many of the girls who complain about them are now sporting this christ-awful sideways-mullet (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b1/4c/e7/b14ce7ad669f3933ba8f15515584c900.jpg) that looks ugh on the insanely hot and puke on anyone less than that.
Excuse you side mullets are awesome.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 18:56
Marten's train of thought: "I've read enough Questionable Content to know where this is going."
Shit, he's become aware. Hannelore needs to administer another dose of the amnesiac, some things weren't meant to be known.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Mar 2015, 18:57
Tomorrow's comic:

HANNERS: "You summoned me, sir?"
MARTEN: "It's time."
HANNERS: "S-so soon?!"
MARTEN: "Are you questioning me?"
HANNERS: "N...no sir."
MARTEN: "Good."
MARTEN: "Release the tungsten rod."

Said tungsten rod obliterates Northampton, and the only survivor is Penelope, who was secretly using nanotech as Pizza Girl. She changes her name to Alice to avoid getting discovered.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: HeavyP on 08 Mar 2015, 18:57
This is the first one that I have laughed at THIS hard in a long time.  Bravo, sir!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 18:57
This is my favorite comic in the entire history of this comic.

I want Marten to keep noping out of the city, out of the state, into an entirely new comic with new characters with nobody else from this one ever mentioned again.

I like this plan a lot.

Plot twist: Marten backs into Alice nope-ing in the other direction. "Alice Grove" becomes "Marten Reed," and everybody in the QC-verse is stuck wondering where all the nanotech came from all of a sudden.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 08 Mar 2015, 18:59
Marten's train of thought: "I've read enough Questionable Content to know where this is going."
Shit, he's become aware. Hannelore needs to administer another dose of the amnesiac, some things weren't meant to be known.

Not fully aware, he doesn't have infinite guitars. Maybe it was just a brief moment of clarity.

Tomorrow's comic:

HANNERS: "You summoned me, sir?"
MARTEN: "It's time."
HANNERS: "S-so soon?!"
MARTEN: "Are you questioning me?"
HANNERS: "N...no sir."
MARTEN: "Good."
MARTEN: "Release the tungsten rod."

Said tungsten rod obliterates Northampton, and the only survivor is Penelope, who was secretly using nanotech as Pizza Girl. She changes her name to Alice to avoid getting discovered.

Does the rod have a big-ass "NOPE" engraved?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 08 Mar 2015, 19:01
So...that doesn't exactly help Tai out, but Marten's expression and the staging of his "back away, don't say a thing" retreat was hilarious. Very well drawn!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: LeeC on 08 Mar 2015, 19:07
Marten's train of thought: "I've read enough Questionable Content to know where this is going."

Pretty much how I read it.  Marten's like "Not going to go through that Dora minefield again."  I honestly don't think he's a bad friend. If this was in a vacuum and Tai was talking about a different girl friend I am sure he would have stuck around and heard her vent.  He's done it in past comics actually.  But being that this is Dora his expression looks that of the "thousand yard stare" of a battle veteran whose gone over the top too many times.  Just not getting entangles in that barbed wire again.

(http://www.milhist.net/images/2000YardStare.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 19:09
What an uncanny picture.

Yeah. Now I'm certain he's just noping right on out of there, with no intent of getting involved.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 08 Mar 2015, 19:10
Someone needs to animate this strip.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 19:11
(http://media0.giphy.com/media/4pMX5rJ4PYAEM/giphy.gif)
The URL goes between the tags, Dr. Bear. :D

EDIT: Or, you know, you can delete your post. That's fine, too. >_>
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 19:12
*Plays Band Of Brothers Theme*
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DrBear on 08 Mar 2015, 19:13
Amazingly quick work there, Cup. I posted, saw it was bad, and by the time I had corrected it saw that you had done it correctly, so I cancelled.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 08 Mar 2015, 19:14
"Talk to my boss about her GF, who used to my GF. And who just fired my roommate.....

Hmmmm"
(http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 08 Mar 2015, 19:15
Amazingly quick work there, Cup. I posted, saw it was bad, and by the time I had corrected it saw that you had done it correctly, so I cancelled.
I am the night.



That badger .gif is getting a lot of use lately, it seems.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2015, 19:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7XfyyKYxnU
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 08 Mar 2015, 19:20
That badger .gif is getting a lot of use lately, it seems.

How bout this one then?
(http://i.imgur.com/EvkBHY9.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 08 Mar 2015, 19:25
Marten, you are a BAD FRIEND.

Normally I am pleased when I predict the forum reaction, but this one was a little too easy.

My first reaction was much harsher, but I decided to tone it down.  Still, I think Marten could've, you know, stuck around and listened to the full story before moonwalking away, but I guess Jeph wanted to go for the easy laughs.

MARTEN: "What's wrong?"
TAI: "Dora and I had an argument. [Quick summary of argument, with concerns over how Dora's been acting since she cut Sven out of her life and fired Faye.]"
MARTEN: "Wow, I had no idea.  I mean, I've been spending a lot of time with Claire, and trying to help Faye out with her problems, but that's no excuse for ignoring everyone else.  Is there anything I can do to help?"
TAI: [Conversation]
MARTEN: [Conversation]
TAI: "Thanks, Marten, that really helps!  I do feel better."
MARTEN: "And just think, I almost walked out on you when you said you were having problems with Dora!  Gosh, that would've been a dick move, right? [Hearty guffaw]"
TAI: [Hearty guffaw]

Yeah, that was my first reaction too (well, not with all the thought out dialogue.. you know what I mean!)
Marten's been a good friend before, even with things that lead directly to his break-up with Dora (the jealousy thing with Allie, remember?). He doesn't have to take sides, he even have to give advice. He just has to listen, say 'aw, I'm sorry Tai, I hope you guys work this out', and we're all done.

And, what I noticed in the last few comics - people on the receiving end of a walk-out don't react any more. Dora doesn't call after Tai, and say 'Hey, sorry Tai, I didn't mean it like that' even though that's really how she feels, even though she has a lot of time. As does Tai, in this comic - Marten has a four-panel, backwards-walking walk-out, and she doesn't even react with 'What the hell are you doing?' Both aren't speechless (the situation is emotional, but not overwhelming)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Mar 2015, 19:31
A more serious prediction: Claire's gonna pick up on NOPE mode Marten, if she's at work today. That may have interesting effects.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 08 Mar 2015, 19:32
He just has to listen, say 'aw, I'm sorry Tai, I hope you guys work this out', and we're all done.

He doesn't have to do do any of those things, as demonstrated by the comic.

Other people may feel entitled to him doing those things. Those people - as demonstrated - are wrong.

What Marten does have to do is whatever is best and healthiest for himself and his own well-being. So he did.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 08 Mar 2015, 19:33
God forbid people don't act like perfect friends in a fictional internet comic :p

Also, if he didn't act like this, it wouldn't be funny. So there's that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Magniras on 08 Mar 2015, 19:34
(http://i.imgur.com/w5eUw7H.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 19:36
A more serious prediction: Claire's gonna pick up on NOPE mode Marten, if she's at work today. That may have interesting effects.

Claire finds out about what Marten just did, they have a giant argument, she breaks up with him, Tai comes out of her office to ask what the hell just happened, Marten gets pissed off and says something insubordinate, Tai fires him, and Faye comes home later that night from her group therapy session to find Marten passed out drunk on the couch in a pool of his own vomit.

Then she burns down the apartment and starts over.  Again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 08 Mar 2015, 19:43
Well, that was... uncharacteristically dickish.  Understandable, but still, not something I would expect from Marten lately.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 08 Mar 2015, 19:53
It was obviously drawn for the lulz. Sheesh you people are SO SERIOUS.


My first reaction was much harsher, but I decided to tone it down.  Still, I think Marten could've, you know, stuck around and listened to the full story before moonwalking away, but I guess Jeph wanted to go for the easy laughs.

This reminds me of the old engineering joke.

MARTEN: "What's wrong?"
TAI: "Dora and I had an argument. [Quick summary of argument, with concerns over how Dora's been acting since she cut Sven out of her life and fired Faye.]"
MARTEN: "Wow, I had no idea.  I mean, I've been spending a lot of time with Claire, and trying to help Faye out with her problems, but that's no excuse for ignoring everyone else.  Is there anything I can do to help?"

Then a miracle occurs.

TAI: "Thanks, Marten, that really helps!  I do feel better."


Seriously, what is Marten going to say that will make Tai feel better?

"Yeah, Dora's emotional problems destroyed our relationship, but don't worry. Shell be back to ignoring her problems soon!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 08 Mar 2015, 19:54
Marten's entire reaction just screams of "Nope. Never again. Not my problem anymore!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 08 Mar 2015, 20:05
This strip really got me. Super funny.
I love that the intensity of his body language / facial expression was so strong that Tai just stops mid-sentence.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 08 Mar 2015, 20:12
It was obviously drawn for the lulz. Sheesh you people are SO SERIOUS.

I know, right? I mean it is a COMIC .
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 08 Mar 2015, 20:15
But comics are SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Butt comics more so.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 08 Mar 2015, 20:25
I google imaged serious butt. The internet has some serious opinions about butt.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 08 Mar 2015, 20:35
Does this mean the girls are going to start wearing cute flapper outfits?

Maybe Marten can save the reputation of the fedora. Nah, far too late.

Nah, I think Marten would look better dressed as a newsboy.  Those caps haven't been ruined by MRAs yet, have they?  Dear grog, I hope not. 

(http://www.villagehatshop.com/photos/product/standard/4511390S60766/newsboy-caps/gotham-newsboy-cap.jpg)

So then Maten would be played by Cristian Bale? I am so for that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Stoon on 08 Mar 2015, 20:36
I know that look.  Marten's suffering from Dora PTSD.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Natswash on 08 Mar 2015, 21:02
Tomorrow: We see Tai moping around the library ending with someone asking Marten what's wrong with her
Wednesday:  Marten explains she had a fight with Dora and when asked why he didn't step in to help explains how awkward it would have been since it's why Dora/Marten broke up
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Mar 2015, 21:03
Marten is going to find Hannelore and ask for a lift to her dad's space station so that he can nope this from orbit.

So you think he should take off, nope the site from orbit?

It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: emilygrrl on 08 Mar 2015, 21:20

(https://futureworldblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/fedora-vs-trilby.jpg)


THANK YOU!!!!

This is such a huge pet-peeve of mine.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Penquin47 on 08 Mar 2015, 21:42
Marten could help with Allie because the one time Dora met one of Marten's exes Faye threw milk on her expensive sweater.  It did not become a problem in their relationship.

Dora shutting down and not talking?  Problem in their relationship.  Very different thing to be talked to about.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 08 Mar 2015, 22:03

You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

[QUOTED IMAGE]

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)

Both are fine hats that people need to get over.

Especially given how many of the girls who complain about them are now sporting this christ-awful sideways-mullet (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b1/4c/e7/b14ce7ad669f3933ba8f15515584c900.jpg) that looks ugh on the insanely hot and puke on anyone less than that.
Excuse you side mullets are awesome.

Is this the girls version of being into my little ponies?

Wait no, the ponies cartoon is still cute, and not ugly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Shjade on 08 Mar 2015, 22:07
Well, that was... uncharacteristically dickish.  Understandable, but still, not something I would expect from Marten lately.

Disagree on the first count, agree on the second: this is a significant shift in the usual Marten outlook, but I wouldn't say it's a dickish shift. He's starting to realize that, hey, as it turns out, some things he just can't fix, no matter how much he stresses out about them. What could he accomplish sticking around for this particular conversation?

Most likely? In reality? Making things worse.

Given how his relationship with Dora ended, the relationship (personal and professional) he has with Tai, the fact that Marten has zero experience with relationships between women (obviously?), complications with Faye only the day before, and so on, and so on, backing out of this soon-to-be-disaster is the only choice that makes any kind of sense.

Could he have done it without a sentence-interrupting unblinking stare? Sure, but hey, comic.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 08 Mar 2015, 22:11
I really think that's it. Yeah, it'd be more prudent and nice of him to say, "sorry I don't think I should get involved because [reasons]", but that's not very funny.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 08 Mar 2015, 22:13
Yeah, its funny as a comic.

But imagine if you were Tai, and you got that reaction to asking for relationship help. She's probably freaking out more now, and maybe giving this even more significance than she was before because Marten's reaction was so extreme.

I mean, heck, Marten could have said "yeah, I've got nothing that can help, but I'm pulling for ya!" given her a hug and left.

instead he chose the method that makes Tai feel like more shit than she already felt like, a bigger pile of shit.

I hope tomorrows comic has him coming back in and being all "okay, I was joking, now lets talk"
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 08 Mar 2015, 22:31
"Oh dear, Tai is having the same trouble with Dora that we had when we were dating.  Maybe if I walk away everything will turn out all right."

Which is exactly why it's perhaps for the best that he -not- get involved. He wasn't able to successfully deal with Dora in a relationship, so perhaps he recognizes that his advice wouldn't necessarily be helpful, and may actually make things worse.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 08 Mar 2015, 23:00
I mean, heck, Marten could have said "yeah, I've got nothing that can help, but I'm pulling for ya!" given her a hug and left.

instead he chose the method that makes Tai feel like more shit than she already felt like, a bigger pile of shit.

I hope tomorrows comic has him coming back in and being all "okay, I was joking, now lets talk"
I'm going to assume the comic was just a representation of the Nope that doesn't closely correspond to canon-reality.  There was a Nope, but it wasn't dickish, just absolute.  In my headcanon, anyway.

Oh, and

(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/onspotz/cabinet/goorin_cappic_05/brsh107.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 23:17
A homburg, if I'm not mistaken?

One of these days, I'm going to work up the courage to rock a Quaker hat.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Sorflakne on 08 Mar 2015, 23:20
Well this week got off to a great start.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CasAttack on 08 Mar 2015, 23:38
I can't help but feel a little frustrated. Marten doesn't need to insert himself into the situation of course, but he is friends with both Tai and Dora, and Dora could use at least one person to maybe just say "Dora's in a rough spot" and leave it at that. I'm glad Hanners has at least been a great pal to both.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Mar 2015, 23:44
Marten's at work; he probably can't escape far.  Claire's presumably at work; he can run to her for help and support.  Claire may not yet know much of the background to Marten and Dora's breakup, so there's scope for a new viewpoint there.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Euthemes on 08 Mar 2015, 23:49
They'll talk about it eventually. If necessary, Tai will tackle him american-football-style.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 08 Mar 2015, 23:50
It'd be interesting to hear Claire's perspective, not least because it'll give her something to say/do beyond the last several weeks' worth of Cute Girlfriend material.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 08 Mar 2015, 23:57
There is every chance that tomorrow's comic will open with Marten saying "sorry, had a moment there," followed by a serious conversation. But I doubt Marten will be able to offer much constructive assistance.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ItsNotATumor on 09 Mar 2015, 00:00
Because Marten sees
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/172/cache/rattlesnake-roundup-4_17211_600x450.jpg)

and then

(http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1343382721750_2810574.png)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Khazgar on 09 Mar 2015, 00:05
It's out of character for Marten to not at least try to help. Either he's overwhelmed from looking after Faye or there's something else going on. Even if his history with Dora made him not want to get involved, he could at least have heard Tai out. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 00:11
I wonder whether Claire will offer relationship advice. She doesn't have experience but definitely has brains.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: icklebeccy on 09 Mar 2015, 00:14
Looong time lurker coming out to write first post (never thought it would be due to a funny strip like this one).
Anyway, am I the only one who thinks Marten noped out of the room because he seen someone/something behind Tai? Maybe Dora wanting to apologise? Or Clinton and Emily making out?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 09 Mar 2015, 00:31
I certainly didn't think that, but it would be an amusing twist.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Mar 2015, 00:43
Very odd behaviour from Marten today. Y'know, Marten looks so scared that I think that we have all underestimated just how traumatized he was by his relationship with Dora. There is a definite air of: "Oh no! It's happening again! AGAIN!"

I also think it is possible that he's under-caffeinated for this conversation. He's going to have a mug or two of the hard stuff before even trying to talk to Tai.

Of course, it could be that he has decided: "I'm in a great relationship and I'm helping Faye, which puts me over my 'good karma quota. Why should I lower my happiness by getting in the middle of this? ESPECIALLY when I know that Dora has so much crazy in her head that any attempt to interfere will seem to her to be a betrayal or rejection of our already-distant friendship?"

But, yeah; this seems a little OOC for him. I'm going for the 'coming back with the strongest possible coffee' theory. This gives him an excuse to go to CoD and judge Dora's mood. That could also be equally horrifying to him.

I've got a strange feeling that he's going to end this week with both Dora and Tai crying on his shoulder!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 09 Mar 2015, 00:52
Dammit, you guys are making me want to wear a trilby on top of a fedora out of pure spite.  And I haven't worn a hat of any kind in years.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 09 Mar 2015, 01:13
I wonder whether Claire will offer relationship advice.

It's up to Emily to save the day!

Somehow.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 09 Mar 2015, 01:28
You're thinking of a trilby, not a fedora. Indiana Jones wore a fedora; the trilby is worn by knuckle-dragging, ass-breathing basement dwellers.

(https://futureworldblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/fedora-vs-trilby.jpg)

Further citation:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/ (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-thats-not-a-fedora-and-stop-wearing-it/)

Technically Indy wears a wide brimmed fedora. The fedora in that pic is of the narrow brimmed variety warn by latte sipping hipsters.

Bad form young man, bad form.

No, the faux pas is with Tai here; she just went to her GFs ex for relationship advice/consolation/soundboarding. I mean come on, by his own admission he's sick of Dora's shit, at least when it comes relationship issues, so it's probably not all that appreciated when someone else comes dragging that same shit in and drops it at his feet after he'd moved on.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: anahata on 09 Mar 2015, 01:43
No, the faux pas is with Tai here; she just went to her GFs ex for relationship advice/consolation/soundboarding. I mean come on, by his own admission he's sick of Dora's shit, at least when it comes relationship issues

Of all the analyses posted so far, this explains it best to me.
Tai didn't have much choice though. Her only way to avoid the situation would be to put on a brave cheerful face and pretend nothing had happened, or to say "oh, nothing" when Marten asked what's wrong, and I don't think Tai's the sort of person who'd dissemble like that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Mar 2015, 01:43
For y'all who are thinking Marten's dealings with Tai are uncharacteristic, check out the first time she actually asked him for advice. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=728)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 09 Mar 2015, 01:53
as long as it's not just some awful plot device to show off claire's superhappybestgilfriendindintheworld powers.
I want to express a feeling exemplified by a clicky, dismissive, back of the throat, gak sort of noise but I can't think how to spell it.


oh yes, well done, marten.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Scarblac on 09 Mar 2015, 02:10
Tai didn't have much choice though. Her only way to avoid the situation would be to put on a brave cheerful face and pretend nothing had happened, or to say "oh, nothing" when Marten asked what's wrong
What's wrong with "I feel bad because of something between me and Dora, that I won't bother you of all people with"?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 09 Mar 2015, 02:20
Tai didn't have much choice though. Her only way to avoid the situation would be to put on a brave cheerful face and pretend nothing had happened, or to say "oh, nothing" when Marten asked what's wrong
What's wrong with "I feel bad because of something between me and Dora, that I won't bother you of all people with"?

Or even "Dora drama, don't worry about it".
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Mar 2015, 02:21
For y'all who are thinking Marten's dealings with Tai are uncharacteristic, check out the first time she actually asked him for advice. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=728)

Tai needs to buy one of those shirts for Claire - She'd really appreciate the sentiment!

Yeah, Tai shouldn't be surprised that a relationship with Dora leads to drama. That said, she is young enough to be optimistic (and, I think, hurt enough by her past 'relationships' that she wanted to be optimistic). FWIW, though, this isn't exactly on a scale with Marten's arguments with Dora. This is just Dora putting up a wall because she's hurt. Tai may have to make the first move, as Marten has advised her before.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: KevxD on 09 Mar 2015, 02:27
Marten and Dora broke up because of constant petty fighting where Dora was being unreasonable.

Tai has just had a petty fight with Dora and considers how she acts to be unreasonable (ie not talking to her about it)

Marten knows there is nothing in this situation he can do or say that won't end up with his ass getting chewed out by someone

So he nope'd

Funniest comic in a long while too.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 09 Mar 2015, 02:29
But comics are SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Butt comics more so.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Mar 2015, 02:31
God forbid people don't act like perfect friends in a fictional internet comic :p

I think thats how we got the shit storm that was Clariten.

Then again, hopefully this is just for comedy, and tomorrow is him trying to be a friend instead of being a jerk, cause this is REALLY not Marten's character.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TinPenguin on 09 Mar 2015, 02:43
There is a fine line between being cool with your friend dating your ex, and getting involved with their problems to the point that you are vicariously experiencing everything you hated about that relationship.

Actually, it's not a fine line at all, it's more of a canyon.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Mar 2015, 03:04
There is a fine line between being cool with your friend dating your ex, and getting involved with their problems to the point that you are vicariously experiencing everything you hated about that relationship.

Actually, it's not a fine line at all, it's more of a canyon.

Yes, there is that. However, there is also the aspect of friendship that involves gritting your teeth and dealing with vicarious pain because, damn it, your friend is hurting and maybe, just maybe, you can make things better.

Remember: Tai didn't ask for help; Marten effectively offered it, sight unseen.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Reaver on 09 Mar 2015, 03:11
Lol Marten is a bad friend for noping out of MORE stress atop of the stress he already has, but Tai isn't a bad boss for talking to her Employee, about her personal issues at work, about his ex, whom dumped him over the exact same issue she's having with her  :psyduck:


Also just because you are someone's friend doesn't mean you HAVE to always deal with ALL of their issues, He's helping out Faye, Faye is a full time job AND Part time, he doesn't need Tai's shit, Tai is an adult and can handle her own problems.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Mar 2015, 03:16
Also just because you are someone's friend doesn't mean you HAVE to always deal with ALL of their issues

Strawman; no-one is even suggesting that he deal with all of her issues - just this one.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Reaver on 09 Mar 2015, 03:30
Also just because you are someone's friend doesn't mean you HAVE to always deal with ALL of their issues

Strawman; no-one is even suggesting that he deal with all of her issues - just this one.

He's already dealing with Faye's issues, He doesn't need to involve himself in this pit fall! The last time he danced this dance, he got kicked in the balls.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: McH on 09 Mar 2015, 03:35
I'm with Marten here. He's overall a cool guy but even chill guys have limits, and dealing with DoradramaTM is definitely an excusable: "Been there, done that.. nope". As for his way of responding being dickish? Yeah. A little. But he's human, and Tai started off in what seemed to be a tirade about his ex that she wasn't going to warn him about. So, in terms of acting perfect, that ship kind of sailed right then and there.

Strawman; no-one is even suggesting that he deal with all of her issues - just this one.

Well, this is the one he especially isn't going to deal with, apparently.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Wildroses on 09 Mar 2015, 03:44
You know, if my boss had started complaining about their relationship problems with a current friend and ex-girlfriend who also recently (and justifiably) fired my best friend and is still the boss of another close friend, I think I'd have backed away too.

There is no way for Marten to win here. If he tries to be sympathetic to Dora he risks his boss being mad at him for not appreciating her point of view. If he tries to be sympathetic to Tai, he risks angering her anyway as she might be angry at him for hating on Dora whom she still loves despite their argument, or he risks it getting back to Dora later; either because Tai would say to Dora "Marten was so right about you!" or as a passing remark unwisely made by Tai who wouldn't think it a big deal after they have reconciled (Yes, that is likely. Believe me, it happens all the time in my office). And because Dora is someone he sees a lot of and is close to a lot of his friends, an angry Dora could have serious social consequences for Marten.

It is, of course possible for Marten to try be sympathetic to both, but this requires great verbal skills, something Marten doesn't have, especially when he is put on the spot. Remember the speech he gave at his Dad's wedding?

No, Marten's best course of action is to back silently away.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 04:03
You know, if my boss had started complaining about their relationship problems with a current friend and ex-girlfriend who also recently (and justifiably) fired my best friend and is still the boss of another close friend, I think I'd have backed away too.

...and all that followed...
This. So much this.

I cannot help but feel that I called it :Þ

Heh. I think this could have been another sign of character growth for Marten. Sometimes you gotta be the "bad guy" or at least the guy who is not actively going above and beyond. For your own good, if nothing else.

Marten does tend to play the support role at his own expense.

OTOH, I think it is a sight gag, and a good one at that. And a nice reminder that QC isn't reality and characters often do break the rules of polite socialization for the funny. I expect We will shortly find Marten either being disapproved of by Claire or threading his way through explaining the deal to Tai.

OR we could see him doing the smart thing and sending in a "disinterested" third party. Like Claire!

Then we could have a lively debate about whether Tai and Claire talking about Dora passes the Bechdel Test and--if it does--is it feminist (yes and yes, of course, but that's because I said so and I'm always right).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 09 Mar 2015, 04:26
Eh, Marten might have noped his way out of the office in this strip for comic effect, but once his fight/flight instincts have calmed down, i predict in the next couple of strips everyone will talking normally, possibly preceded by "ok...ok.."

OR

Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 09 Mar 2015, 04:32
Let us try to analyse Tai's statement:
Quote
Dora and I had an argument. I was just trying to get her to TALK to me, but she-
Possible triggers:
As others have commented, one possible explanation for Marten's action is that anything he can do or say will only worsen the situation. Therefore, he backs away. But my guess is that he just needs a time-out to compose his thoughts. He shall be back tomorrow, TALKing to Tai. His advise: Do not summon old demons. Things might still work out if Tai stays away from certain subjects, but it is up to her to accept the terms or not.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 09 Mar 2015, 04:44
Marten and Dora broke up because of constant petty fighting where Dora was being unreasonable.

Tai has just had a petty fight with Dora and considers how she acts to be unreasonable (ie not talking to her about it)

Marten knows there is nothing in this situation he can do or say that won't end up with his ass getting chewed out by someone

So he nope'd

Funniest comic in a long while too.

Exactly. This is his BOSS having romantic problems with his EX. No good can come of getting into the middle of that minefield. And I agree, the expression on his face and the slow fade is priceless.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Mar 2015, 04:51
Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...

I can see Momo going into a full panic shutdown. "Emergency NOPE mode engaged!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Mar 2015, 05:01
Really, all Marten has to do is hug Tai, agree with her that relationship problems suck and encourage her not to run away from the problem.

He doesn't have to take sides, give detailed advice or even get Dora's side of the story (I suspect that Dora will go to Faye or one of the CoD girls and get told off for being an ass). What he really should do is offer his friend empathy and comfort. Sometimes, that's the most that you can do.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 09 Mar 2015, 05:02
Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...

You know, that makes me wonder if we're about to see some drama between Claire and Tai that's been set up for a long time.

Claire has a very long history of taking professionalism at the library very seriously (even if she's been more than a bit hypocritical about it at times). She's also openly expressed frustration with Tai's lack of professionalism. What Tai just did could be argued to be extremely unprofessional...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MrCorvin on 09 Mar 2015, 05:33
I hate to say it, but that was the only response Marten should give in regards to this issue.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 09 Mar 2015, 05:48
Really, all Marten has to do is hug Tai, agree with her that relationship problems suck and encourage her not to run away from the problem.

He doesn't have to take sides, give detailed advice or even get Dora's side of the story (I suspect that Dora will go to Faye or one of the CoD girls and get told off for being an ass). What he really should do is offer his friend empathy and comfort. Sometimes, that's the most that you can do.

Yeah, but it's harder to make that funny. As others have observed, we've had an awful lot of squeeee and awwww lately.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 09 Mar 2015, 05:49
Alright, since I've already enjoyed the amusing visual gag in today's strip, it's time for some over-analysis.

The issue of readers having unrealistic expectations of perfection has been brought up a couple of times in the past week. That's not why there are objections to the way certain characters are handling their business. When we consume fiction and react to fictional characters, we're (generally) not holding them to an unrealistic standard of perfection, but we do compare them to the real world, particularly when the characters are well-rounded, realistic, and relateable.

To that end, we don't ask them to be perfect, but we do ask: are their actions, attitudes, and motives understandable? Reasonable? Sympathetic? That's what shapes our reactions to the characters and their role in the plot.

Take Marten here. What he did wasn't the best thing he could've done, but when we examine his reasons, they're understandable. He's in a difficult situation, so it's reasonable that he doesn't want to unpleasant issues from the past or get tangled up in someone else's argument...particularly as it involves his boss and his ex. Tai has, directly or indirectly, asked a lot of him: being cool with the way she lusted after Dora while she and Marten were together, not making an issue out of her wanting to make a move on Dora almost immediately after the break-up, and waking him up in the middle of the night to seek reassurance and support after her first date with Dora. One can sympathise with Marten's position, even if you don't completely agree with his handling of the situation.

Compare that to last week's "bad friend" moment with Hanners and Marigold. It's understandable that Marigold isn't that interested in the proceedings, callous as that may be, but ignoring Hanners was not a reasonable way to treat a close friend and guest. Her lack of common courtesy and support for a friend who has been very kind and supportive to her makes her unsympathetic; instead, Hanners is the one most readers would sympathise (or even empathise) with. It's not that Marigold is imperfect, it's that in this particular situation, her actions don't pass the understandable/reasonable/sympathetic test. At the very least, they score lower than Marten's actions do.

Of course, in both cases, it makes for a funny punchline. Amusement and criticism of the character's actions (or reactions) are not mutually exclusive. We can roll our eyes at Marigold's lack of social grace, while also chuckling at her butchering of the details. We can sympathise with Marten's situation and laugh at the "NOPE" reactions, while also acknowledging that it wasn't his best move.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 09 Mar 2015, 05:54
Alright, since I've already enjoyed the amusing visual gag in today's strip, it's time for some over-analysis.


 :-D

Amusement and criticism of the character's actions (or reactions) are not mutually exclusive. We can roll our eyes at Marigold's lack of social grace, while also chuckling at her butchering of the details. We can sympathise with Marten's situation and laugh at the "NOPE" reactions, while also acknowledging that it wasn't his best move.

Emotional pratfalls can be as amusing as physical ones.

All that said, I'm with the folks who think Marten will eventually grit his teeth and take the risk of this blowing up in his face. Which it will. Oh, yes, it will.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: sleypy on 09 Mar 2015, 06:08
I don't post often, but I had to for this one. I had a little voice in my head saying "Thar be Dragons!" Marten's expression was perfect.

There was nothing good to come from that situation. He would have been comforting her now, but setting her up for a bigger argument down the road. Tai doesn't play things close to the vest and would eventually mention her and Marten conversation. Tai might get mad at Marten (Dora too if she hears how he reactied), but that is probably the best possible result for Tai and Dora's relationship I think.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 09 Mar 2015, 06:48
Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...
... And Emily sees them and joins in. By then they're out on the sidewalk, picking up more backpedalers ("SROB SROB SROB ..." and on and on, picking up Faye on her way to therapy, Pizza Girl on her way to deliver to Penelope,  one great big Katamari Damacy backpedaling blob consuming all it touches until Coffee of Doom is reached. Last line is Dora's: "What the hell ass baRRRRRRGGGHHH ..."
(Iris out. PINTSIZE says "th-th-th-that's all Folks!  Heheheheheh. You thought I was going to say sonofabitch, didn't you?" Blee-OOP and fade to black.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 09 Mar 2015, 07:15
Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...
... And Emily sees them and joins in. By then they're out on the sidewalk, picking up more backpedalers ("SROB SROB SROB ..." and on and on, picking up Faye on her way to therapy, Pizza Girl on her way to deliver to Penelope,  one great big Katamari Damacy backpedaling blob consuming all it touches until Coffee of Doom is reached. Last line is Dora's: "What the hell ass baRRRRRRGGGHHH ..."
(Iris out. PINTSIZE says "th-th-th-that's all Folks!  Heheheheheh. You thought I was going to say sonofabitch, didn't you?" Blee-OOP and fade to black.)

And so ends the entire comic.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 09 Mar 2015, 07:29
Claire and Momo see marten backpeddling, Tai follows, explains to them, they start backpeddling too...
... And Emily sees them and joins in. By then they're out on the sidewalk, picking up more backpedalers ("SROB SROB SROB ..." and on and on, picking up Faye on her way to therapy, Pizza Girl on her way to deliver to Penelope,  one great big Katamari Damacy backpedaling blob consuming all it touches until Coffee of Doom is reached. Last line is Dora's: "What the hell ass baRRRRRRGGGHHH ..."
(Iris out. PINTSIZE says "th-th-th-that's all Folks!  Heheheheheh. You thought I was going to say sonofabitch, didn't you?" Blee-OOP and fade to black.)

And so ends the entire comic.

with the entire cast back peddled into a huge pile in the middle of coffee of doom, then que sitcom group laughter and fade to black?

could be worse.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: dexeron on 09 Mar 2015, 08:12
I think Marten's just concerned about the Allosaurus standing behind Tai.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Euthemes on 09 Mar 2015, 09:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lPJ9J-6vDw
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: McH on 09 Mar 2015, 10:25
One more thing I'd like to point out. Marten isn't even thinking this through. Look at his skin colour: he turns *pale*. The whole mention of "I'm just trying to get her to talk" must be setting off red flares in his system that caused him to flee the scene.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Welu on 09 Mar 2015, 10:48
This is instantly one of my favourite strips.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Mar 2015, 10:52
One more thing I'd like to point out. Marten isn't even thinking this through. Look at his skin colour: he turns *pale*. The whole mention of "I'm just trying to get her to talk" must be setting off red flares in his system that caused him to flee the scene.
Which is kind of an important point. His slowly backing away, never breaking eye contact and locking himself in the office really doesn't strike me as a 'NOPE'. It's more like someone who just saw a big, dangerous animal about to strike and is slowly backing away from the danger. Once he calms down from the initial panic, he'll probably be a better friend. But right now alarm sirens are going off in his head and there's a flailing robot going 'DANGER! DANGER MARTEN REED!'
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Schwungrad on 09 Mar 2015, 10:57
I think Marten's just concerned about the Allosaurus standing behind Tai.
That's not an Allosaurus, that's a Velociraptor and the Raptor is Claire.
(click to show/hide)

I think while Marten's exit might be considered overly dramatic (and I'm sure he'll apologize to Tai for that in one of the next strips), he's completely within his rights to not want to discuss Dora-problems with Tai.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 Mar 2015, 11:21

His slowly backing away, never breaking eye contact and locking himself in the office really doesn't strike me as a 'NOPE'. It's more like someone who just saw a big, dangerous animal about to strike and is slowly backing away from the danger.

Not trying to be pedantic or overly sarcastic here, but I don't understand the difference between the two.

Perhaps I'm not a good enough student of The Way of Nope to see the subtleties involved, please enlighten me?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 09 Mar 2015, 11:26

His slowly backing away, never breaking eye contact and locking himself in the office really doesn't strike me as a 'NOPE'. It's more like someone who just saw a big, dangerous animal about to strike and is slowly backing away from the danger.

Not trying to be pedantic or overly sarcastic here, but I don't understand the difference between the two.

Perhaps I'm not a good enough student of The Way of Nope to see the subtleties involved, please enlighten me?

I think it's the difference between fear of hurting himself or someone else, and not caring enough about his friends to try and help
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Mar 2015, 11:28
Chaospersonified beat me to it but yeah. Basically the distinction I was making was that Marten's reaction seemed more instinctual reaction than him rationally decided he didn't want to be involved. The difference of "OH SHIT! A BEAR!" and "Not my circus, not my monkies. I'm out of here."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 09 Mar 2015, 11:32
The difference of "OH SHIT! A BEAR!" and "Not my circus, not my monkies. I'm out of here."

THAT'S what Marten sees. The bear that put Faye in the hospital isn't done. He's going to strike out at Faye's loved ones to draw her out for the rematch.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 09 Mar 2015, 11:49

That's not an Allosaurus, that's a Velociraptor and the Raptor is Claire.
(click to show/hide)
That... is kind of disturbing  :psyduck:
Can't stop looking o.O
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 09 Mar 2015, 12:30
I want him to have noped  so hard, he somehow ends up in Amherst in front of Dora's new apartment, where she's crying by herself because that's safer than crying in front of people.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Cattus on 09 Mar 2015, 13:01
I think it's pretty clear what just happened here.  Marten has recently gotten into a happy place with Claire.  While this has been happening, the relationships of his closest friends have gone into the crapper.  He is zoning out, suffering from WTF syndrome.  And to top it off, he's at the core of this all - best buds and roomie with Faye, ex-bf of Dora, good friend and minion of Tai.  He's just hoping that Hanners and Marigold don't come to blows.  Bad Karma all around.  How will things settle out in the end?  I suspect things will get worse before they get better.
But better they WILL get - I'm banking on it.  It's FigNewton's law of the conservation of feels.  Positive feels will eventually balance all the negative feels until we get to feels equilibrium - because of the ever increasing entropy of feels.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 09 Mar 2015, 13:11
I think it's pretty clear what just happened here.  Marten has recently gotten into a happy place with Claire.  While this has been happening, the relationships of his closest friends have gone into the crapper.  He is zoning out, suffering from WTF syndrome.  And to top it off, he's at the core of this all - best buds and roomie with Faye, ex-bf of Dora, good friend and minion of Tai.  He's just hoping that Hanners and Marigold don't come to blows.  Bad Karma all around.  How will things settle out in the end?  I suspect things will get worse before they get better.
But better they WILL get - I'm banking on it.  It's FigNewton's law of the conservation of feels.  Positive feels will eventually balance all the negative feels until we get to feels equilibrium - because of the ever increasing entropy of feels.

*blink blink* Hanners and Marigold weren't IN today's strip, though? And in the last strip, they didn't seem to have nearly the falling out everyone was predicting for them last week. Hanners was angry, then they were talking about farting, and all seemed okay between them. The scene shifted to Marten and Tai, then, so presumably, those two strips were just filler.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Mar 2015, 13:55
Here's the thing though, Marten has been in the exact same position that Tai now finds herself. Hindsight really is 20/20 and right now, Marten has crystal clear vision. He knows all the warning signs, they are plastered everywhere. There might as well be giant flashing lights with guards posted to divert people from the upcoming crash. From Marten's perspective, if he tried to offer any advice or help in any way, he'd just end up taking the controls of a runaway train that's about to fly off the tracks.

No matter what happens now, someone is going to be hurt, someone is going to cry. By removing himself from the situation, Marten has made sure he can't be made a scapegoat by anyone if the crap does hit the fan.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Mar 2015, 13:56
The issue of readers having unrealistic expectations of perfection has been brought up a couple of times in the past week. That's not why there are objections to the way certain characters are handling their business. When we consume fiction and react to fictional characters, we're (generally) not holding them to an unrealistic standard of perfection, but we do compare them to the real world, particularly when the characters are well-rounded, realistic, and relate-able.

To that end, we don't ask them to be perfect, but we do ask: are their actions, attitudes, and motives understandable? Reasonable? Sympathetic? That's what shapes our reactions to the characters and their role in the plot.

We can't ask fictional characters to not be perfect. Then again, we can't ask the creator of said characters to bend to the whim of the fandom. HOWEVER, said creator obviously cannot ignore the fandom that have genuine criticism and gripes about how a story or characters are progressing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 09 Mar 2015, 14:08
Marten had the look of post-breakup PTSD deja vu!  Poor guy! 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 14:35
One thing Marten could do is to give Tai the Cliff Notes on Dora's relationship history. Of course that might enrage Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 09 Mar 2015, 14:44
One thing Marten could do is to give Tai the Cliff Notes on Dora's relationship history. Of course that might enrage Dora.

Which he knows, hence the back-away-slowly strategy.

Basically, I'm on his side here.  Nothing helpful Marten could say in this instance would do anything but anger someone. He probably could have said something to that effect, but that's at the risk of Tai jumping at him and begging him for more information and getting irritated if he didn't give it.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 14:49
Here's a funny interpretation.

We don't really see what's on the other side of the door.

Did Marten just lock himself in a closet?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 09 Mar 2015, 14:51
Didn't the raptor pic get removed from a previous thread?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Mar 2015, 14:55
It did.  IIRC, it was posted with entirely innocent intentions, but its source, being a nasty cesspit made it a bit problematic.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Mar 2015, 15:00
Marten locked Tai in the office. Of course the latch is on her side so she can get out easily, but it will slow her down for a crucial second or two while he runs for the front door.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 09 Mar 2015, 15:07
She's obviously a student of the Havelock Vetinari school of door design.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 15:08
The mods are hypervigilant about some issues. If there's a complaint about the "clever girl" picture it will disappear again.

I'm not up on meme meanings but something disquieting came up when I researched it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 15:15
The issue of readers having unrealistic expectations of perfection has been brought up a couple of times in the past week. That's not why there are objections to the way certain characters are handling their business. When we consume fiction and react to fictional characters, we're (generally) not holding them to an unrealistic standard of perfection, but we do compare them to the real world, particularly when the characters are well-rounded, realistic, and relate-able.

To that end, we don't ask them to be perfect, but we do ask: are their actions, attitudes, and motives understandable? Reasonable? Sympathetic? That's what shapes our reactions to the characters and their role in the plot.

We can't ask fictional characters to not be perfect. Then again, we can't ask the creator of said characters to bend to the whim of the fandom. HOWEVER, said creator obviously cannot ignore the fandom that have genuine criticism and gripes about how a story or characters are progressing.

Really? I see you point. Ignoring gripes and going in directions that upset fandom really killed George Lucas's career and made the Star Wars brand worth... 4 billion when sold to Disney.

Yeah. So a creator can definitely ignore the fandom.

MIDICHLORIANS MOFOS!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: grez on 09 Mar 2015, 16:42
The issue of readers having unrealistic expectations of perfection has been brought up a couple of times in the past week. That's not why there are objections to the way certain characters are handling their business. When we consume fiction and react to fictional characters, we're (generally) not holding them to an unrealistic standard of perfection, but we do compare them to the real world, particularly when the characters are well-rounded, realistic, and relate-able.

To that end, we don't ask them to be perfect, but we do ask: are their actions, attitudes, and motives understandable? Reasonable? Sympathetic? That's what shapes our reactions to the characters and their role in the plot.

We can't ask fictional characters to not be perfect. Then again, we can't ask the creator of said characters to bend to the whim of the fandom. HOWEVER, said creator obviously cannot ignore the fandom that have genuine criticism and gripes about how a story or characters are progressing.

Err... yes, yes they can. The criticism can be genuine and the gripes can be gripey, but the creator can ignore whatever the heck they want to. It may not be wise - it may even be stupid in some cases - but it's their right as creator to bend, break, mish, mash, and do whatever to their story.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 09 Mar 2015, 16:48
It's not about catering to the fanbase, though. It's about having characters that the audience becomes invested in and subsequently react to, in accordance with their own perceptions. I don't think anyone expects the cast of QC to always say or do the right thing - the strip would be pretty bland and boring if they did - but what the characters do still resonates with us the audience, and we evaluate the proceedings in accordance to what we each find understandable, reasonable, and sympathetic.

Sometimes there's multiple layers to that. Take Sven's recent appearance, for instance. It's understandable and reasonable that he'd develop romantic feelings for Faye, and we can sympathise with the fact that it causes him some confusion as he finds himself in unfamiliar territory. However, his attitude towards the situation, perception of himself as the protagonist of a romantic comedy, and expectations of Faye are not reasonable and do not make him sympathetic. Arguably understandable, given he's uncharacteristically out of his depth, but it fails on the other counts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 17:35
John Grisham.

I should explain.

IMO, Grisham's protagonists have been uniformly detestable people. I was once trapped in a dull place with nothing to keep my sanity but a stack of his novels. I finished none of them.

I could argue that Grisham had failed in the characterization department. Except, best selling author, a multitude of film adaptations.

You simply can't argue that a characterization fails because you don't feel sympathy for the character's position. You can poll to find out if a supermajority finds the character wildly unrealistic or unreadable, but being unlikable is actually a valid way to be a character. Being addictively unlikabe is a kind of characterization super-combo finish.

I have never related to fictional Jerry Seinfeld, or Greg House, or Sherlock Holmes, or the Doctor, or Kara Thrace, or the Goddamn Batman. I'm not sure they are relatable characters. Each was (or is), in their own way, so the best at what they do, you expect something to go "snikt." They are watchable. Being watchable can cover for any amount of realism fail.

IMO, Marten had a watchable moment. Sven has been generally watchable. Every time he's skated close to relatability, he's done something to dance it back, but in a way the supported the humor of the comic. But all of that is opinion.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Mar 2015, 17:51
The mods are hypervigilant about some issues. If there's a complaint about the "clever girl" picture it will disappear again.

I'm not up on meme meanings but something disquieting came up when I researched it.

Oh, you saw the ED and Know Your Meme articles about the strip, huh? Like the one that makes fun of the room myself.

You simply can't argue that a characterization fails because you don't feel sympathy for the character's position.

I point to Clariten as a counter-argument to this. The strips we've been given concerning Clariten have been devoid of info of why Marten has gone from a string of failed relationships with Females to him going out with a Transgendered person. It's pretty much "I like you, let's go out." Okay, WHY?!?!?! Is he just sick and tired of being the whipping boy with females that he thinks maybe going non-traditional would be a better shot at happiness? Is it because his childhood with Veronica exposing him to alternative lifestyles kinda gave him a more open mind when it comes to such things? Or some other obtuse reason?   
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 09 Mar 2015, 17:59
You simply can't argue that a characterization fails because you don't feel sympathy for the character's position.

I never did.

I was talking about our reaction as readers, and the "What, do you expect (character) to be perfect?" argument that's come up a few times in the past week or so. I doubt anyone's holding the characters to that kind of standard, but our reactions from behind the fourth wall are still driven by how we perceive their words, actions, and motives. We may not always agree with their decisions and course of action, but we can understand it, see reason in it, sympathise with it.

Of course, that's stretching it out and breaking it down in a lengthier manner than we do when we're reading the comics. We make that analysis in an instant, deciding whether or not we agree with a character, and even if we don't, whether we can at least see their point of view. I'm not talking about the quality of the character, whether it succeeds or fails; in fact, if a character is eliciting a response from the audience, I think they're successful by default. I'm talking about our reactions to characters, how they push our buttons, whether we're cheering or jeering them, what we think of the things they're saying and doing when there's a grey area. Reactions to the events of the story and how it makes us feel, not whether we think the characters succeed or fail from a narrative point of view. That's another discussion entirely, as is whether or not the characters are entertaining (or as you said, watchable).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 18:19
I'm not sure I see the distinction. I don't claim there isn't one. I just don't see it.

Humans are emotional beasts. We like to lie to ourselves and each other, by claiming we are rational. But rationality is pretty much a post hoc analysis of our feelings--or a justification. I say pretty much because how we rationalize does set us up for what we feel next. But it seems scientifically solid to say the species is mostly feels. To be otherwise, you'd have to know the mind works like, believe it, and be ever vigilant about how the world view you construct with each thought will impact you emotionally.


That sounds exhausting.

So, when you say quality of the character, that sounds like an emotional judgment. When you compare that to "our reactions" that sounds like the same thing. Or feels like it. I'm admitting my biases may blind me to line that separates those two evaluations.

When I talk about a supermajority, I mean things like the uncanny valley. We wouldn't even know it existed, IMO, if some people weren't a little less sensitive to its slope. They make a thing and it looks fine to them, but a supermajority of us find it feels wrong. Too lifelike, but not lifelike enough. It's not a well defined edge, but a zone where most of us humans are having similar reactions. So, while I can see how that might sound like a discussion of an objective property, or way of evaluating a character, it all subjective. It's just a widely shared subjective view point.

And that was way too much text to say the same thing I said in the first line.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 09 Mar 2015, 18:21
I point to Clariten as a counter-argument to this. The strips we've been given concerning Clariten have been devoid of info of why Marten has gone from a string of failed relationships with Females to him going out with a Transgendered person. It's pretty much "I like you, let's go out." Okay, WHY?!?!?! Is he just sick and tired of being the whipping boy with females that he thinks maybe going non-traditional would be a better shot at happiness? Is it because his childhood with Veronica exposing him to alternative lifestyles kinda gave him a more open mind when it comes to such things? Or some other obtuse reason?   

Oh, right, because Marten realizing he likes Claire as a person and doesn't consider her trans status to be a deal-breaker or a barrier to a potential relationship with her is completely impossible and unrealistic, amiright?  It has to Mean Something, because there's NO POSSIBLE WAY Marten would want to go out with a trans woman unless he realized that he has absolutely no hope of ever dating another cis woman again.  Time to settle for second-best!  Level up!  Or level down!  Or something ridiculous like that!

*headdesk*

Edit: Neko_Ali said it better below.  Read that comment instead.

Also, comic.  Marten could've just said in the first place that he didn't want to get involved; that would've saved us several pages of discussion.  Harrumph.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Mar 2015, 18:23
I point to Clariten as a counter-argument to this. The strips we've been given concerning Clariten have been devoid of info of why Marten has gone from a string of failed relationships with Females to him going out with a Transgendered person. It's pretty much "I like you, let's go out." Okay, WHY?!?!?! Is he just sick and tired of being the whipping boy with females that he thinks maybe going non-traditional would be a better shot at happiness? Is it because his childhood with Veronica exposing him to alternative lifestyles kinda gave him a more open mind when it comes to such things? Or some other obtuse reason?   

This sounds more like projection to me. There has been absolutely no indication in comic that Marten is dating Claire because she's trans. He has never shown any indication of thinking of her as anything other than another girl in hs life. Putting forth the idea that there are (cis) females and trans females is a rather touchy thing. They work together, they hang out together, they went on a road trip and shared a room together. Mutual attraction developed. For some people, for whatever reason, knowing someone is trans is just a non-issue. Look at his initial reaction when Claire told him. It was basically. "Oh, okay cool. Let's head inside."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 09 Mar 2015, 18:33
You should have kept up with the Nope Marten...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Mar 2015, 18:36
I think projection is the number one cause of issues on this forum - but that may just be me...  :claireface:

EDIT: Poor Marten. This time, make like Ardent and RUN.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Mar 2015, 18:39
cesariojpn, for as long as I've been on these boards -- not as long as a lot of people, certainly, but long enough -- you've had a bug up your ass over Claire, and all the more so since she and Marten got together. What is your issue, exactly? Despite all evidence to the contrary (in the comic, in comments and information from other forum members, and a shit-ton of information available out in the world at large), you keep insisting that there's something "off" about Claire, and that there must, by extension, be some deep Freudian thing going on with Marten for being able to befriend and subsequently fall for someone, rather than finding them somehow squicky.

So it bears asking: What is so inexplicable to you that someone could fall in love with a trans* person? Put differently, what is your major malfunction?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 18:39
I point to Clariten as a counter-argument to this. The strips we've been given concerning Clariten have been devoid of info of why Marten has gone from a string of failed relationships with Females to him going out with a Transgendered person. It's pretty much "I like you, let's go out." Okay, WHY?!?!?! Is he just sick and tired of being the whipping boy with females that he thinks maybe going non-traditional would be a better shot at happiness? Is it because his childhood with Veronica exposing him to alternative lifestyles kinda gave him a more open mind when it comes to such things? Or some other obtuse reason?   

Why?

Why not.

Consider this:

1. A person who identifies as straight probably never thought about that in any detail. Society doesn't challenge straightness. If this person has had prior relationships, they are overwhelming likely to have had relationships with people who are biologically the opposite sex.

2. A person who identifies as straight can accept a transperson's gender without questioning it. I have never (no really) questioned a transperson's gender. The biggest issue I have, so far is one person who has been fairly random in they way the self refer so I'm not clear on whether this person is trans, CD, or gender queer. And I don't care, but it does lead to some pronoun mixing in my head which is a first for me.

3. SYLOGISM TIME!!!!!!!!! Should a person who meets conditions 1 and 2 enter a relationship with a transperson, that relationship overwhelmingly likely be after having a string of failed relationships with people who are biologically the opposite sex. (This bars the minority who have had a string of relationship that all ended in the death of their partner.)

It is, in fact, utterly unremarkable that Marten's first relationship with a transwoman follows a string of failed relationships with ciswomen. It's nearly tautological, akin to saying wet things are wet.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 09 Mar 2015, 18:44
EDIT: Poor Marten. This time, make like Ardent and RUN.

Bad idea.  There's always a bigger fish.  Has George Lucas taught us nothing?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 18:48
Global Moderator Comment There are many excellent reasons, scientific and humane both, to treat trans women as simply women. There are only bad reasons to do otherwise outside a doctor's examining room. In addition, there is a formal forum rule on the subject more specific than the general civility rule.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Mar 2015, 18:50
Aaaaaaaand now he's caught.
Aaaaaaaand Tai might end up disappointed.
Aaaaaaaand for some reason, I keep writing Asssssss.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DonInKansas on 09 Mar 2015, 18:51
Marten is going to find Hannelore and ask for a lift to her dad's space station so that he can nope this from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Mar 2015, 18:52
I keep writing Asssssss.
Buuuuuttts!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 09 Mar 2015, 18:56
I'm not sure I see the distinction. I don't claim there isn't one. I just don't see it.

Determining whether or not a character succeeds or fails from a narrative point of view is a more academic discussion. Reacting to the plot and talking about what the characters are doing is a more casual, "water cooler" type of conversation. That's how I'd sum up the distinction.

As I said, I'm not saying that a character's actions being understandable, sympathetic, or reasonable indicate a better quality of character. Of course, I would say that a well-written character will engage us, and as we watch the story unfold, our feelings and reactions are governed by the aforementioned criteria. It is, as I said, something that we decide almost instantly upon reading dialogue and seeing the action take place. It's only when we discuss it later, put those thoughts and opinions into words, that it becomes a lengthier breakdown.

When fiction has engaged us, it plays out before us or in our minds as though the events are actually taking place. We're focusing on the experience rather than the inner workings, though we may well have an awareness of them. Characters stimulate us and provoke reactions: "Man, he's a jerk. I want to see him get his comeuppance!", "I know she's technically the villain, but her backstory is pretty tragic, I actually feel kind of sorry for her", "He may technically be the hero, but he sure doesn't act like one!", "I don't agree with their methods, but you can understand how it got to this point", "Their intentions are good, but their actions are short-sighted"...and so on.

So, take Marten backing out of the room. One reaction is "Whoa, that wasn't cool, he just cut and run when a friend of his needed help and support." A counterpoint raised to that was essentially "Well, it's not fair to criticise him for that, what, do you expect him to be perfect?" My counterpoint to that is that no, we're not expecting perfection; however, we do recognise these scenarios, we have our own ideas of what's appropriate and what isn't, what we make of what we see, and how understandable, reasonable, and sympathetic it is to us...which may or may not gel with how agreeable we find the characters to be. In other words, "That wasn't the best thing to do, but I understand why he did it".

It has nothing to do with the construction of the character, whether it's failing or not. That's meta-level stuff. I'm talking about following along with the events in-universe, observing what's going on from behind the fourth wall as if it's actually happening, and having a reaction and opinion on the events that are taking place. That's the distinction.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 09 Mar 2015, 19:01
Ugh, back to Tai being a rotten, selfish, emotionally abusive gutterdyke.

I know it's the character, she's just an awful person, as a character.

...I know, I know:

I can't say she's emotionally abusive. I'll take my ban now.

Moderator Comment As you wish

Global Moderator Comment So say we all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 09 Mar 2015, 19:04
And there Marten is, helping out the best he can. The backing away thing was, as so many people pointed out, purely for comedy. Marten isn't suddenly some kind of dickhead. And yet so many people who admitted it was uncharacteristic of Marten were so ready to believe it.

Who was it that said that the character haters were fond of basing their rants off limited data? Here is a classic example.

Ptptpttttth.jpg

Edit: oh, so we're going to move on to hating Tai now. Dear God.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Mar 2015, 19:05
I keep writing Asssssss.
Buuuuuttts!

Oh no! I have contracted the Butts Disease!
This was something of a sprung surprise, of that I can not lie.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mary tyler murder on 09 Mar 2015, 19:07
There is a fine line between being cool with your friend dating your ex, and getting involved with their problems to the point that you are vicariously experiencing everything you hated about that relationship.

Actually, it's not a fine line at all, it's more of a canyon.

Yes, there is that. However, there is also the aspect of friendship that involves gritting your teeth and dealing with vicarious pain because, damn it, your friend is hurting and maybe, just maybe, you can make things better.

Remember: Tai didn't ask for help; Marten effectively offered it, sight unseen.

No, you're just failing to read the parts you don't want to read.

If you're playing "effectivelies" then she effectively demanded it by greeting Marten with a "bleh", and as every narcissist with a nasty attitude has demonstrated everywhere in the world since time immemorial, if he *hadn't* given into her demand she would have been a massive cunt to all and sundry the entire rest of the day.

I know there's this weird rule that some people are entitled to bleed other people emotionally dry, it's just, you know, a bullshit rule, believed in by bullshit people.

Still, Marten showed a little spirit for once. Here's hoping his learning curve continues on its upswing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 09 Mar 2015, 19:11
Marten is pretty much Tai's best friend.  She admitted a good while back that she really didn't have any deep friendships before meeting him, just casual acquaintances  and sex partners.  So she's going to ask him for help, even though she does realise it puts him in a bit of an awkward position.  The other people in her life either have limited experiences in dealing with relationships, or are dealing with their own problems.  Perhaps someone in her family could help, but so far we know nothing of them, or how she gets along with them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ElvisRevenge on 09 Mar 2015, 19:13
I just read Marten's dialogue in Bob Belcher's voice and it was toooooooo perrrrrrrfeeeeeeeect.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 19:13
Still not seeing the distinction.

I had a friend from highschool who didn't like Fight Club because Disassociative Personality Disorder doesn't work like that. I don't really dig Big Bang Theory because the nerds aren't really realistic. Just caractures.

Whether a character succeeds or fails from a narative point of view is still a subjective assessment that's based on a reaction no different from "what that character did was uncool." How you feel about what see happens before you find the words to define that feeling. Whether that word is "unrealistic" or "uncool" is really just whim based on how you feel about analyzing the character or the narrative in that moment. That's why one person can come to the thread with a character response and another with a perspective on the framework of the story in which the event took place. Same coin, different sides. Could be twenty-five cents, or it could be a quarter of a dollar.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jeph on 09 Mar 2015, 19:15
There is a fine line between being cool with your friend dating your ex, and getting involved with their problems to the point that you are vicariously experiencing everything you hated about that relationship.

Actually, it's not a fine line at all, it's more of a canyon.

Yes, there is that. However, there is also the aspect of friendship that involves gritting your teeth and dealing with vicarious pain because, damn it, your friend is hurting and maybe, just maybe, you can make things better.

Remember: Tai didn't ask for help; Marten effectively offered it, sight unseen.

No, you're just failing to read the parts you don't want to read.

If you're playing "effectivelies" then she effectively demanded it by greeting Marten with a "bleh", and as every narcissist with a nasty attitude has demonstrated everywhere in the world since time immemorial, if he *hadn't* given into her demand she would have been a massive cunt to all and sundry the entire rest of the day.

I know there's this weird rule that some people are entitled to bleed other people emotionally dry, it's just, you know, a bullshit rule, believed in by bullshit people.

Still, Marten showed a little spirit for once. Here's hoping his learning curve continues on its upswing.

Hey asshole quit throwing around words like "cunt" and "gutterdyke" on my website
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 19:22
Sometimes you want to feed the troll, even though you shouldn't. Sometimes you want to call a mod. Sometimes you want to do both.

Then this happens and you just want to lead with a slow clap into a standing ovation.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 09 Mar 2015, 19:23
I could use a cigarette right about now, and I don't even smoke.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Mar 2015, 19:25
EDIT: Poor Marten. This time, make like Ardent and RUN.
Bad idea.  There's always a bigger fish.  Has George Lucas taught us nothing?
Or, in Ardent and Gavia's case, bigger birds.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Mar 2015, 19:26
I'll take my ban now.
As you wish

It might be, it could be, IT IS!

I was wondering why I saw Jeph's avatar on here.

It's never a good thing to see Jeph's avatar on here.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesariojpn on 09 Mar 2015, 19:35
It is, in fact, utterly unremarkable that Marten's first relationship with a transwoman follows a string of failed relationships with ciswomen.

So, you'd find it "unremarkable" if say, Marten had relationships with an AnthroPC? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2333) To others, this relationship is remarkable to them, but the way the storyline has progressed, people are kinda wondering when some of the bits and pieces will fall into place to help them feel sympathetic to the couple.   

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Mar 2015, 19:41
Now you are comparing trans women to non humans? The ice is getting very very thin.

Personally for myself, I would not bat an eye at an android/human romance. Because for me romance and love is not about physical parts, but emotional attraction. Whatever else they may be, AnthroPCs are self aware, emotional, intelligent beings. They have shown compassion, friendship, a desire for companionship and even love towards other AIs and humans. I can possibly be said that Station is in love with Hannelore. They certainly have a deep friendship and abiding affection for one another.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 19:49
It is, in fact, utterly unremarkable that Marten's first relationship with a transwoman follows a string of failed relationships with ciswomen.

So, you'd find it "unremarkable" if say, Marten had relationships with an AnthroPC? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2333) To others, this relationship is remarkable to them, but the way the storyline has progressed, people are kinda wondering when some of the bits and pieces will fall into place to help them feel sympathetic to the couple.

Within the context of the QC universe, yes. Machines are people, too. At least they are, there. While I understand the real world POV that they are non-human, that's not the situation that obtains in Jeph's world.

Also, gotta call fail. You buttressed (heh heh. he said "buttressed.") your argument by suggesting something odd about having a string of cis relationships. Indeed your whole point, such as it was, was constructed on the idea that a string of cis relationships is proof of something. However, it proves exactly nothing. The string of cis relationships is unremarkable. The trans relationship is also unremarkable, but for different reasons that have been explained to you multiple times and in some detail.

I'm just pointing out that your current argument makes no sense, which is kind of outting you.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 09 Mar 2015, 19:51
Now you are comparing trans women to non humans? The ice is getting very very thin.

Personally for myself, I would not bat an eye at an android/human romance. Because for me romance and love is not about physical parts, but emotional attraction. Whatever else they may be, AnthroPCs are self aware, emotional, intelligent beings. They have shown compassion, friendship, a desire for companionship and even love towards other AIs and humans. I can possibly be said that Station is in love with Hannelore. They certainly have a deep friendship and abiding affection for one another.

I wouldn't bat an eye at a human/android romance either, but I'm not sure that Station and Hanners would be the first example I'd reach for. Maybe it's just me, but there seemed to be an uncomfortably incestuous undercurrent to that part of that arc.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying, though. Especially that first bit.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Mar 2015, 19:51
@Cesariojpn - Please, quit while you're behind, it looks like everyone is about to lap you.
You seem to have a particular bugbear about Claire for the past few months and frankly, it's getting boring and repetitive.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Stoon on 09 Mar 2015, 19:51
Wow.  That was the first banning I've seen on this board.  I used to participate on another board where they had a graveyard thread, where a tombstone was planted for those who caused enough offence and discord to warrant a banning.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 09 Mar 2015, 19:55
All that said, I'm with the folks who think Marten will eventually grit his teeth and take the risk of this blowing up in his face. Which it will. Oh, yes, it will.

And lo, even as I have prophesied, so it has come to pass. Go me.

As for why Marten's pursuing a relationship with Claire: she's a girl he likes. No more, no less. That's the whole point.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Mar 2015, 20:03
The "sad Tai" face is too hard to resist for long.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 09 Mar 2015, 20:10
New comic. Knew Marten wasn't a complete asshole
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheCaffeinatedPanda on 09 Mar 2015, 20:20
Hehe, this time Tai out-idiomed Marten!  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 09 Mar 2015, 20:30
I just wanted to add that the last two comics have been the perfect blend of serious plot progression and funny.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 09 Mar 2015, 21:33
[MichaelCorleoneVoice]"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."[/MichaelCorleoneVoice]
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Mar 2015, 21:40
Quote from: forum rules
The principle to keep in mind is that the trans*  people are male, female, or other as they report themselves to be. They have spent their lives grappling with their identity and are the world's leading authorities on it. Next is that they have always been that gender even when their bodies didn't match. Remember those points and you'll see a lot of the etiquette for yourself.
Global Moderator Comment This has been, is, and will be enforced.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 09 Mar 2015, 21:52
And here we see Marten's Good Guy instincts start to overwhelm his self-preservation instincts.

Poor guy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 09 Mar 2015, 21:59
I hope Tai gets her make-up kisses. Also, Marten should go back to his silent strategy, it's much more effective.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 09 Mar 2015, 22:03
I'll take my ban now.
As you wish

It might be, it could be, IT IS!

I was wondering why I saw Jeph's avatar on here.

It's never a good thing to see Jeph's avatar on here.

Good riddance.

Part of me does wonder if they weren't someone from the subreddit, registering for the sole purpose of seeing how much shit they could stir up.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Mar 2015, 22:20
Probably fairly likely.  And with the whole Walfart thing, Jeph has just gotten a bunch of essentially free publicity. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Jazzmaster on 09 Mar 2015, 23:26
I'm pretty sure Marten meant to discuss it in person.  I don't know why you'd text this sort of thing to somebody.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 09 Mar 2015, 23:32
You text an apology to create an breaking of the ice. It's like sending a letter of apology to open the doors for a meeting, except less postage. (Letters of apology were once a thing.) It creates social breathing room and gives the other party time and space (spacetime?) to decide where their boundaries on the matter lie.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 09 Mar 2015, 23:50
Goddmanit Tai!

No! now is not the time to grin and think of make up kisses! too early! curb that enthusiasm for Dora-Butt, you haven't resolved shit yet
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 10 Mar 2015, 00:28
Marten just got Tai'd pretty hard right there...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Mar 2015, 00:32
Yeah, the fact is that, no matter what his better judgement, Marten is basically a nice guy and wants to help out when he can. It doesn't help his cause that he's naturally empathetic and responds to others' distress nearly automatically.

In summary, he's a sucker for a damsel in distress or a friend with a good 'sad puppy dog' expression. :laugh:

That said... Okay, I appreciate that this is Tai's first monogamous relationship; indeed, it seems to be her first serious relationship at all but...! Keeping cliff notes on her cell? That's more than a little strange! What was her Major? I know that she has Liberal Arts but that's a good generic Minor. If she majored in Psych or Sociology, then she may be relying on her textbooks a bit too much in real life.

In her defence, her eagerness is cute in said puppy dog way! :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 10 Mar 2015, 00:37
Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 10 Mar 2015, 01:09
Welp. He shoulda just noped out of the building  :psyduck: :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 10 Mar 2015, 03:07
Good riddance.

Part of me does wonder if they weren't someone from the subreddit, registering for the sole purpose of seeing how much shit they could stir up.

Possibly, although they've been around since 2011.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 10 Mar 2015, 03:40
I get wicked drunk one Monday and all of a sudden shit hits the fan. I'm disappointed in everyone really. I wanted to say douchey things to assholes! Very rude.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Mar 2015, 03:42
Good riddance.

Part of me does wonder if they weren't someone from the subreddit, registering for the sole purpose of seeing how much shit they could stir up.

Possibly, although they've been around since 2011.

I've noticed that some people are bothered by some characters to a point that goes far beyond any rational level. Their response is so shrill and borderline-hysterical that I suspect that they know a real-life Tai (or Claire, or Dora or Faye, etc.) and that their personal experience with that person is so negative that it colours their reaction to the character in the strip. They then engage in a little hostility transfer and start lashing out at the character as they would never do in real life to the person they know.

Just a little amateur-psych guess on my part!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 10 Mar 2015, 03:45
That or people hold unrealistic expectations for fictional characters.

You may have made a point with that. I kinda can't read well atm. I just wanted to be popular.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Mar 2015, 04:16
I get wicked drunk one Monday and all of a sudden shit hits the fan. I'm disappointed in everyone really. I wanted to say douchey things to assholes! Very rude.  :-D

It would have dragged you down to their level, and the Jeph Banhammer is permanent.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 10 Mar 2015, 04:33
Which is odd, because my level is pretty low as it is :D
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: gopher on 10 Mar 2015, 04:56
Hmm, my general distaste for Faye has decrased since she has suffered and is trying to get help. Parallel to that my tolerance for just how self-centred MArigold and Tai are has decreased. Guess every good story needs some people you don't like.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: KevxD on 10 Mar 2015, 06:01
If it gets back to Dora that Marten was helping Tai (probably through Tai mentioning it offhand to her) I can see Marten being the next person she has  ago at, ticking her closer to meltdown.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 10 Mar 2015, 06:13
I strongly dislike the phrase, "make up kisses".
the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
marten should, if anything, advise tai to end her dalliance with dora. it will stop her from ever trying to get him involved in her drama again.
tai is simply marten's boss and he would do well to remember that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Mar 2015, 06:14
If it gets back to Dora that Marten was helping Tai (probably through Tai mentioning it offhand to her) I can see Marten being the next person she has  ago at, ticking her closer to meltdown.

I'd like for Marten to actually volunteer the information to Dora. "Tai is so worried, she actually came to me for advice! Bad joke, huh?"

tai is simply marten's boss and he would do well to remember that.

She's also his friend, no matter how much you may personally dislike this fact.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: KevxD on 10 Mar 2015, 06:34


I'd like for Marten to actually volunteer the information to Dora. "Tai is so worried, she actually came to me for advice! Bad joke, huh?"
Would probably be better to get his word in first, I agree. Considering the fear in his eyes in the last comic though, he may just hope his (albeit brief) involvement just isn't mentioned.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 10 Mar 2015, 07:15

tai is simply marten's boss and he would do well to remember that.

She's also his friend, no matter how much you may personally dislike this fact.

I don't personally dislike the idea that tai is marten's friend, i'm also quite sure that tai is marten's friend I just don't think marten is hers. i'm not sure marten even likes tai all that much.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: snubnose on 10 Mar 2015, 07:19
Gloomy Tai ? I have trouble to imagine that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Mar 2015, 07:43
I hope Tai gets her make-up kisses. Also, Marten should go back to his silent strategy, it's much more effective.

I think Tai is setting herself for a pretty big fall.
Every time Dora caused an argument, she was the one to initiate the apology by going and talking to (for the most part) Marten. Tai texting her is going to give Dora too much power and let her off the hook.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Welu on 10 Mar 2015, 07:49
If it gets back to Dora that Marten was helping Tai (probably through Tai mentioning it offhand to her) I can see Marten being the next person she has  ago at, ticking her closer to meltdown.

I'd like for Marten to actually volunteer the information to Dora. "Tai is so worried, she actually came to me for advice! Bad joke, huh?"

Tai has gotten advice about her relationship with Dora from Marten before (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2582) and  Dora knows about it. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2583)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 10 Mar 2015, 10:18


the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
Describe a human behavior not motivated by selfishness.

Okay, trick challenge. No such behavior exists.
what a rubbish trick. is there a point you want to make?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 10:24


the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
Describe a human behavior not motivated by selfishness.

Okay, trick challenge. No such behavior exists.
what a rubbish trick. is there a point you want to make?

That every act committed by any human, ever, was motivated by selfishness.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: vidugavia on 10 Mar 2015, 10:29


the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
Describe a human behavior not motivated by selfishness.

Okay, trick challenge. No such behavior exists.
what a rubbish trick. is there a point you want to make?

That every act committed by any human, ever, was motivated by selfishness.
But then there is no point in speaking about selfishness at all and even a worker-ant's death, when attacking a piece of bubble-gum, can be said to be "motivated by selfishness". It is full-filling it's preference for attacking.

Don't destroy language. We need it.   
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 10 Mar 2015, 10:30
That every act committed by any human, ever, was motivated by selfishness.

Sorry, but -

That every act, committed by any human, ever, was personally and subjectively interpreted by me to be motivated by selfishness.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 10:34


the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
Describe a human behavior not motivated by selfishness.

Okay, trick challenge. No such behavior exists.
what a rubbish trick. is there a point you want to make?

That every act committed by any human, ever, was motivated by selfishness.
But then there is no point in speaking about selfishness at all and even a worker-ant's death, when attacking a piece of bubble-gum, can be said to be "motivated by selfishness". It is full-filling it's preference for attacking.

Don't destroy language. We need it.

Not destroying language dude. Look up the philosophy of the selfless act. (To expand, if selflessness is, indeed, impossible then "selfish" is actually an impediment to clear communication. "Selfish" would be the thing destroying language.)

That every act committed by any human, ever, was motivated by selfishness.

Sorry, but -

That every act, committed by any human, ever, was personally and subjectively interpreted by me to be motivated by selfishness.

Fixed that for you.

Fail. See above. At best you can claim I have taken a biased position based on the reasoning that selflessness is impossible. And that's why "fixed that for you" is one of the dumbest things on the the internet.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 10 Mar 2015, 10:39
Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.

That is the actual best setup for a highly distasteful pun on the Dora Bianchi International Airport.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 10 Mar 2015, 10:45
Gloomy Tai ? I have trouble to imagine that.

Gloom! (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1947)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 10 Mar 2015, 10:46
Fail. See above. At best you can claim I have taken a biased position based on the reasoning that selflessness is impossible. And that's why "fixed that for you" is one of the dumbest things on the the internet.

Alright, I'm not going to be dragged into another fight on this forum. I don't want the reputation for it.


Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.

That is the actual best setup for a highly distasteful pun on the Dora Bianchi International Airport.

The Italian just checked the wind conditions. His short trip was eventful, and exploded catastrophically bare moments after takeoff.

(Bare moments. Heh.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: vidugavia on 10 Mar 2015, 11:26
But then there is no point in speaking about selfishness at all and even a worker-ant's death, when attacking a piece of bubble-gum, can be said to be "motivated by selfishness". It is full-filling it's preference for attacking.

Don't destroy language. We need it.

Not destroying language dude. Look up the philosophy of the selfless act. (To expand, if selflessness is, indeed, impossible then "selfish" is actually an impediment to clear communication. "Selfish" would be the thing destroying language.)

Nope.

First and foremost there is a difference between the descriptive philosophical concept of psychological egoism and the everyday normative concepts of selfishness. Using them as synonyms are just confusing.

Selfish in everyday language means being self-centred and only interested in your own well being. Psychological egoism says that all acts, even those made to benefit others, are rooted in fulfilling your own preferences. If psychological egoism is correct, in that there is no truly selfless acts, it doesn't necessarily mean that there are no acts that are more or less self-centered. 

Tai is selfish in a normative everyday sense. She uses Marten as a tool without regard for his feelings. Everyday normative language is used in order to describe how people should and shouldn't act. The descriptive discussion regarding the possibility of selfless acts is something different and something that should be kept separately in order to avoid confusion. Otherwise I could destroy more or less ANY discussion by de-constructing the concept "self". 

I have a masters degree in philosophy and history. I know the discussion. For years I waved the flag of psychological egoism in more of less every normative discussion I was part of. Then I realised how fruitless it was.

I do not have a masters degree i English. Please bare with my language...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 10 Mar 2015, 11:29
Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.

That is the actual best setup for a highly distasteful pun on the Dora Bianchi International Airport.

The airport has been officialy closed until the depressed Tai-phoon has blown over. :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 10 Mar 2015, 11:48
Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.

That is the actual best setup for a highly distasteful pun on the Dora Bianchi International Airport.

The airport has been officialy closed until the depressed Tai-phoon has blown over. :claireface:

Question: Are you even aware of your 'blown over' double entendre?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 12:09
But then there is no point in speaking about selfishness at all and even a worker-ant's death, when attacking a piece of bubble-gum, can be said to be "motivated by selfishness". It is full-filling it's preference for attacking.

Don't destroy language. We need it.

Not destroying language dude. Look up the philosophy of the selfless act. (To expand, if selflessness is, indeed, impossible then "selfish" is actually an impediment to clear communication. "Selfish" would be the thing destroying language.)

Nope.

First and foremost there is a difference between the descriptive philosophical concept of psychological egoism and the everyday normative concepts of selfishness. Using them as synonyms are just confusing.

Selfish in everyday language means being self-centred and only interested in your own well being. Psychological egoism says that all acts, even those made to benefit others, are rooted in fulfilling your own preferences. If psychological egoism is correct, in that there is no truly selfless acts, it doesn't necessarily mean that there are no acts that are more or less self-centered. 

Tai is selfish in a normative everyday sense. She uses Marten as a tool without regard for his feelings. Everyday normative language is used in order to describe how people should and shouldn't act. The descriptive discussion regarding the possibility of selfless acts is something different and something that should be kept separately in order to avoid confusion. Otherwise I could destroy more or less ANY discussion by de-constructing the concept "self". 

I have a masters degree in philosophy and history. I know the discussion. For years I waved the flag of psychological egoism in more of less every normative discussion I was part of. Then I realised how fruitless it was.

I do not have a masters degree i English. Please bare with my language...

Everyday and normative are illusions. They assume words mean the same thing to most people, and that's not true. It's amazing that languge works at all, when you think about.

You claim that Tai is "selfish" and "not giving consideration to Marten." You mean to say the same thing twice, but one of those statements communicates something specific, by narrowing the potential ways to interpret the individual words. The other doesn't. It's merely pejorative, no different that calling a character "asshole." It communicates that the speaker doesn't like the character, but nothing more. Stating a character IS a thing (is selfish, is an asshole) communicates the speaker's opinion with the imperative that the audience should agree.

If you find it fruitless to discuss the philosophy of things, you really shouldn't make imperative statements about what language is, because that's pretty much nothing but philosophy. Even trying to define "normative" and "everyday" is a philosophic discussion. You can't have a meta-discussion without going down that rabbit hole.

Of course, my intent wasn't to be meta. Just to note the meaninglessness of the charge that Tai is acting selfishly.  Marten asked her about her feelings, as she pointed out. She also implicitly acknowledged Marten's desire not to get involved. Marten "got involved" anyway, at which point it was time for the punchline. Tai's actions certainly kept the subject on herself, but that was the subject.

Philosophically speaking, it minds me of the parable about the blind men and the elephant. This little slice of interaction is insufficient to describe the whole of the thing, yet it is used to draw a certain conclusion, without regard to its context. Yesterday, Marten was the bad guy, today it's Tai. It seems an unfair assessment, in the least. We know, now, that Marten didn't think he should get involved. Using your definition of normative language, why wasn't what he did labeled as selfish by you? (If it was, I apologize for misunderstanding.) He could have considered Tai's feelings and just stated his position, rather than dramatically backing out to sound of infinite "nope."

Marten did what he did because the author thought it would be funny. Tai's "in for a penny" is meant to serve the same purpose.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 10 Mar 2015, 12:57
Whoa!  Marten blows his top.  Been a while since I've seen that and it's actually MORE anger than we saw when he and Dora split.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Mar 2015, 12:57
Administrator Comment Bechdel Test conversation is now a separate thread.

The following are fragments that got caught up in the move:

Tai must be pretty desperate to seek relationship advice about Dora from someone who couldn't make a relationship with Dora work. Instead of doing what Marten would have done, she should do what she would do - it's her relationship, after all.

the behaviour displayed by the character tai is motivated by selfishness and a lack of any regard for marten's experiences with dora.
Describe a human behavior not motivated by selfishness.

Okay, trick challenge. No such behavior exists.

Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD

Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 10 Mar 2015, 13:16
Whoa!  Marten blows his top.  Been a while since I've seen that and it's actually MORE anger than we saw when he and Dora split.

He seems less angry than exasperated (with himself, no less).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 13:41

Everyday and normative are illusions. They assume words mean the same thing to most people, and that's not true. It's amazing that languge works at all, when you think about.

You claim that Tai is "selfish" and "not giving consideration to Marten." You mean to say the same thing twice, but one of those statements communicates something specific, by narrowing the potential ways to interpret the individual words. The other doesn't. It's merely pejorative, no different that calling a character "asshole." It communicates that the speaker doesn't like the character, but nothing more. Stating a character IS a thing (is selfish, is an asshole) communicates the speaker's opinion with the imperative that the audience should agree.

If you find it fruitless to discuss the philosophy of things, you really shouldn't make imperative statements about what language is, because that's pretty much nothing but philosophy. Even trying to define "normative" and "everyday" is a philosophic discussion. You can't have a meta-discussion without going down that rabbit hole.

Of course, my intent wasn't to be meta. Just to note the meaninglessness of the charge that Tai is acting selfishly.  Marten asked her about her feelings, as she pointed out. She also implicitly acknowledged Marten's desire not to get involved. Marten "got involved" anyway, at which point it was time for the punchline. Tai's actions certainly kept the subject on herself, but that was the subject.

Philosophically speaking, it minds me of the parable about the blind men and the elephant. This little slice of interaction is insufficient to describe the whole of the thing, yet it is used to draw a certain conclusion, without regard to its context. Yesterday, Marten was the bad guy, today it's Tai. It seems an unfair assessment, in the least. We know, now, that Marten didn't think he should get involved. Using your definition of normative language, why wasn't what he did labeled as selfish by you? (If it was, I apologize for misunderstanding.) He could have considered Tai's feelings and just stated his position, rather than dramatically backing out to sound of infinite "nope."

Marten did what he did because the author thought it would be funny. Tai's "in for a penny" is meant to serve the same purpose.

RF, I think that for some people, and I'm not speaking about the person you were answering above because I don't know him/her, but for myself, at least, any dislike of Tai goes beyond this instance or this punchline.

Tai is selfish. She pushes boundaries. Whether it's because of some issue she has or not, I won't speculate, but this is real. This is not stuff that anyone is pulling out of their ass. She openly lusted after Dora when she and Marten were together, making him uncomfortable. She was a complete creep the first time she met Hannelore and had to be told by Marten, twice, to knock it the fuck off. I seem to recall that when Clinton acted like a creep to Hanners, he got much less slack. Tai sort of does whatever Tai wants to do, and the options are to fuck off from her or deal with it.

I think that not enough attention is paid to the fact that Tai is Marten's boss. It doesn't matter that she's stoned off her ass most of the time or that neither of them want to stay there forever. It is what it is. She is someone that Marten has to answer to. When Marten was an "Office B----" we saw how docile he was in the presence of his supervisor. He's not Faye - subconsciously he is aware that there is a hierarchy and that Tai has direct control over whether he remains employed, hence him being concerned about knowing whether she had graduated or not, because if she were leaving, his library days might be numbered. Subconsciously, Marten is not going to want to antagonize Tai. Yes, she is his friend and yes, he cares about her well-being, but Marten is Marten - I knew even before clicking on the comic for today that he was going to backtrack and help. That's who and what he is, and Tai knows it, which is why she was passive-aggressive in Monday's strip. She knows she can get away with that with him and he'll eventually cave.

I don't like Tai. I acknowledge that her feelings for Dora are real, and likely deeper than Marten's feelings for Dora were. But I don't like Tai as a character and I really find that she grates. I will acknowledge that it might just be me. I hate passive aggressive people and I hate people who use their position to get things out of others. I don't have any doubt that Tai understands on some level that as the boss, she has greater sway over what Marten does and how he responds. Would she fire him for no cause? Probably not, but Marten subconsciously does not want to take that chance.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: vidugavia on 10 Mar 2015, 13:58
Everyday and normative are illusions. They assume words mean the same thing to most people, and that's not true. It's amazing that languge works at all, when you think about.

No. It is not amazing. Languages works because there exists rather large practical agreements within them regarding what words mean. "Illusions" are just as real as everything else that exist. Illusions exist as illusions. Everyday language use and its collective agreements and definitions are something that exists and can be studied. Just like illusions can be studied. 

You claim that Tai is "selfish" and "not giving consideration to Marten." You mean to say the same thing twice, but one of those statements communicates something specific, by narrowing the potential ways to interpret the individual words. The other doesn't. It's merely pejorative, no different that calling a character "asshole." It communicates that the speaker doesn't like the character, but nothing more. Stating a character IS a thing (is selfish, is an asshole) communicates the speaker's opinion with the imperative that the audience should agree.
No. Being selfish is in everyday language, and in many more well defined ethical schools, generally to be self-centred and only interested in your own well being. There is always potential ways to interpret words in different ways, regardless of how many words you use. That doesn't change that language works because there exists common understandings of words.

There exists no "mere perjoratives". All perjoratives contain nuances that signal why and/or in what way we should dislike them/their acts. There are differences between calling a person selfish, an asshole, a cunt, a son of a whore, a looney or a traitor. Differences that are constantly defined in the living language. Trying to reduce that to "do not like" is language-destruction.

Stating that Tais behavior in the discussed situation is motivated by selfishness or stating that Tai is selfish in a certain act communicates that her actions are bad in a specific way, that she should change her behavior and that similar behavior should be avoided by others.

If you find it fruitless to discuss the philosophy of things, you really shouldn't make imperative statements about what language is, because that's pretty much nothing but philosophy. Even trying to define "normative" and "everyday" is a philosophic discussion. You can't have a meta-discussion without going down that rabbit hole.

I don't find it fruitless to discuss the philosophy of things, but I do find conversation-destructing deconstructionism rather impotent and boring. Dragging psychological egoism into a discussion regarding if an action is ethical doesn't help that discussion at all. The question regarding if Tai, or anyone else, can do truly altruistic acts or not doesn't help us an iota

Of course, my intent wasn't to be meta.

Then don't bring meta-ethics to the battlefield.

Just to note the meaninglessness of the charge that Tai is acting selfishly.  Marten asked her about her feelings, as she pointed out. She also implicitly acknowledged Marten's desire not to get involved. Marten "got involved" anyway, at which point it was time for the punchline. Tai's actions certainly kept the subject on herself, but that was the subject.
Then say that. That is a valid ethical re-evaluation of the situation that doesn't drag things down into a meta discussion.

Philosophically speaking, it minds me of the parable about the blind men and the elephant. This little slice of interaction is insufficient to describe the whole of the thing, yet it is used to draw a certain conclusion, without regard to its context. Yesterday, Marten was the bad guy, today it's Tai. It seems an unfair assessment, in the least. We know, now, that Marten didn't think he should get involved.
Is anyone but you speaking about bad guys? Both me and "rfrank dodelijk" are talking of what we view as bad behavior in a specific situation. We can NEVER speak about anything more than a slice of the elephant. We have no choice but making our judgements of the elephant from the small patches we can touch.

Using your definition of normative language, why wasn't what he did labeled as selfish by you? (If it was, I apologize for misunderstanding.) He could have considered Tai's feelings and just stated his position, rather than dramatically backing out to sound of infinite "nope."

His actions might be selfish, but that is not what our discussion is about. This is about you labeling all human behavior selfish.

Marten did what he did because the author thought it would be funny. Tai's "in for a penny" is meant to serve the same purpose.

Booring meta again. Make up your mind regarding what you are discussing. Otherwise I might start to make a freudian analysis regarding why you are writing what you are writing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 14:25
..snip.. Length.
I don't like Tai. I acknowledge that her feelings for Dora are real, and likely deeper than Marten's feelings for Dora were. But I don't like Tai as a character and I really find that she grates. I will acknowledge that it might just be me. I hate passive aggressive people and I hate people who use their position to get things out of others. I don't have any doubt that Tai understands on some level that as the boss, she has greater sway over what Marten does and how he responds. Would she fire him for no cause? Probably not, but Marten subconsciously does not want to take that chance.

Angus basically stalked Faye, and was generally creepy as all hell about worming his way into her life up to the point the Marten invited him into the social circle--which really wasn't on Angus.

I'd respond to vidugavia's post, but it'd just be repeating what I already said in different words.

I point this out, not because I dislike Angus, but because it is "real." it's a thing that definitely happened. I am pretty much the only person I've seen comment on this.

You don't like Tai. Your analysis is colored by that dislike. Given all of the things that character in QC have done, there's really nothing special about Tai's excesses. You can point to her enthusiasm about Dora being inappropriate, but--given Marten's knowledge that Faye wasn't exactly comfortable with sexy time talk, his repeated innuendos were of the same caliber. That they all ended in punches and "I was joking" doesn't change anything. For those who don't dislike Marten, however, they get a pass. Just like Angus being creepy (or Dale), Faye's abusiveness, Dora's issues in general, and so on.

You dislike Tai. You see a thing Tai did and you evaluate that thing to support that dislike. I see the same things and it's just a character doing her thing. You say Tai IS selfish, as if it carries the same weight as "Tai IS a woman." But one of those is a fact and the other is just your interpretation. I don't mean to say that a thing being your interpretation is therefore unworthy of discussion. I'm just disagreeing with it. Tai has ribbed Marten about his reaction to her lust for Dora, but then again, Marten has ribbed her back. He did not punch her in response, so it would seem that Tai is still in the wrong. Punches make everything okay, it seems. Tai dramatically moped about Dora being single, but pursing her being an uncool thing to do so soon after a break up, but she didn't push the issue. She moped later when it seemed that Dora was ready to join the dating pool and missed her chance to Jim. When Marten questioned her about this dramatic mope, he joined in. Tai admitted, unprompted, that her interest in Dora could have been uncool and Marten pointed out (correctly, I might add) that while it was uncomfortable for him, he had no right to tell Tai she could not pursue Dora. Tai then offered a non-weasel-word apology which Marten accepted.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Everyone has one. I suppose everyone's entitled to share unless the rules state otherwise. My perspective is that labeling Tai as selfish doesn't communicate anything. My perspective on Tai's "selfish behavior" is above.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 14:34
{snipped}
Everyone has one. I suppose everyone's entitled to share unless the rules state otherwise. My perspective is that labeling Tai as selfish doesn't communicate anything. My perspective on Tai's "selfish behavior" is above.

Maybe I'm just not understanding your point. What is supposed to be "communicated"? I don't come to this board to do anything except contribute my opinion, should I have one, about what is happening or has happened in the strip. Your statement that my post doesn't "communicate" anything does imply that you find my point of view useless, which is your prerogative, but that's kind of a shitty stance to take.

Yes, Angus was creepy. Not your problem that you don't know this, but I've stated that on the record several times. I sort of side-eyed Faye warming to him, but hey, it happens, I guess. I didn't have to like it, and I didn't, but it was what it was. Other people's creepiness doesn't preclude others from being creepy as well. Hannelore, who I like quite a bit, was quelle creepy in her intro. I don't see her as selfish because she has not exhibited traits that indicate, to me, a penchant for selfishness. Tai has. I don't know that my dislike of her colors that. I adore Dora and have no issues in calling her out on her self-sabotaging, strident behavior. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Endellion on 10 Mar 2015, 14:44
Why not keep cliff's notes on the phone? A 200GB microSD has been announced not too long ago, surely that's enough to keep track of everything xD
Sir, there are still terabytes of calculations required before an actual flight is attempted.

That is the actual best setup for a highly distasteful pun on the Dora Bianchi International Airport.

The airport has been officialy closed until the depressed Tai-phoon has blown over. :claireface:

Question: Are you even aware of your 'blown over' double entendre?

Absolutely  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 15:31
{snipped}
Everyone has one. I suppose everyone's entitled to share unless the rules state otherwise. My perspective is that labeling Tai as selfish doesn't communicate anything. My perspective on Tai's "selfish behavior" is above.

Maybe I'm just not understanding your point. What is supposed to be "communicated"? I don't come to this board to do anything except contribute my opinion, should I have one, about what is happening or has happened in the strip. Your statement that my post doesn't "communicate" anything does imply that you find my point of view useless, which is your prerogative, but that's kind of a shitty stance to take.

Yes, Angus was creepy. Not your problem that you don't know this, but I've stated that on the record several times. I sort of side-eyed Faye warming to him, but hey, it happens, I guess. I didn't have to like it, and I didn't, but it was what it was. Other people's creepiness doesn't preclude others from being creepy as well. Hannelore, who I like quite a bit, was quelle creepy in her intro. I don't see her as selfish because she has not exhibited traits that indicate, to me, a penchant for selfishness. Tai has. I don't know that my dislike of her colors that. I adore Dora and have no issues in calling her out on her self-sabotaging, strident behavior. If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."

Did you really just tell a black man where his place was?

For serious? (But he didn't know you were black! Yeah, I know. But A: still happened. B: it's a crappy thing to say no matter who you say it to, unless there is actually a place and someone doesn't own it. Like say a moderator's position.)

Le sigh.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. Yes, I said that "selfish" doesn't communicate anything, and I explained that rather clearly. "Tai is selfish" is no different than "Tai is an asshole." Both statements declare that you don't like Tai by hanging a pejorative label on her, but nothing beyond that. The stance you ascribe to me is your imagination. If you find it shitty, you did that to yourself. Why should I care that you don't like Tai? Why should you care that I don't care? Beyond that it says nothing about anything.

Moreover, my lack of care was primarily in reference to the standard the someone who is not you was using to judge Tai. That you share that standard is incidental, so still not personal (just like your "in your place statement" while shitty on it's own, wasn't actually racist). You interjected yourself into a discussion already in progress. To take my application, to your argument, of a theme I already expressed as a personal attack just feels like you are looking for something to view as a personal attack. So if you have an argument on how my not seeing the labels being hung on characters as important is shitty in itself, rather than as a perceived slight, share.

I stated that there is difference between labeling a character, which I suggest communicates nothing, and discussing--or calling out--what they did. I notice that here you label Dora's behavior, but not Dora. Why not hang "bitch" around Dora's neck, rather than label her behavior "strident?" Since my thesis is that "selfish," used as label, is no different than "asshole" it's no different than "bitch." I just have personal dislike for that word. That dislike is why I use it here. I could have asked about "asshole," but choosing the gendered term here underlines the reason I say labels don't communicate anything. I think most people will feel how bitch comes off wrong. I think selfish does the same thing, but people find it more socially acceptable.

Yes, we're all allowed opinions, and yes were all allowed to express them. I didn't say you could not express your labels. What is it that separates your right to aply the label from my right to comment on your application it? Why is it not my place to express my opinion, but it is okay for you express yours? I'm guessing it goes back to you viewing my opinion on the use of labels, and words that I opine to have limited meaning, as an opinion of you.

Just to be clear, I don't think you are being racist. I'm using hyperbole to underline that I do think you're overeacting.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 10 Mar 2015, 15:33
<digression>
The SMIF logo in the fourth panel is all wonky, like her shirt is crooked. But her face is adorable there.
Also, I've said this recently but I feel it warrants repetition: count me among those who are happy that QC is returning to its humorous nature.
</digression>

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your opinions on altruism.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Mar 2015, 15:50
Administrator Comment This thread, indeed this forum, is not for personal arguments.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 10 Mar 2015, 16:32
I think I'm gonna need a WCDTDT.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Stanistani on 10 Mar 2015, 17:13
Marten is Everyman or perhaps 'Everyguy,' just trying to find love, and ultimately find out what he's going to do in life.

Fun to watch. That's what Jeph brings us here, five times a week.
... and butts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 10 Mar 2015, 17:15
I think I'm gonna need a WCDTDT.
That's only for when you get too sucked into the shenanigans. I basically decide to ignore it because my reflexes on that are usually "make everything a ton worse".

Really.

And most of the time I don't even want to. But it happens because I'm way more liberal with my language than I should be irl.

Warning - while you were typing Stani² contracted butts disease

Wait, you mean to tell me we weren't here specifically for the butts?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Mar 2015, 17:24
If Faye has delirium tremens in the bathroom, is that WC DTs?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 10 Mar 2015, 17:50
RF, I think that for some people, and I'm not speaking about the person you were answering above because I don't know him/her, but for myself, at least, any dislike of Tai goes beyond this instance or this punchline.

Tai is selfish. She pushes boundaries. Whether it's because of some issue she has or not, I won't speculate, but this is real. This is not stuff that anyone is pulling out of their ass. She openly lusted after Dora when she and Marten were together, making him uncomfortable. She was a complete creep the first time she met Hannelore and had to be told by Marten, twice, to knock it the fuck off. I seem to recall that when Clinton acted like a creep to Hanners, he got much less slack. Tai sort of does whatever Tai wants to do, and the options are to fuck off from her or deal with it.

<snip>

I don't like Tai. I acknowledge that her feelings for Dora are real, and likely deeper than Marten's feelings for Dora were. But I don't like Tai as a character and I really find that she grates. I will acknowledge that it might just be me. I hate passive aggressive people and I hate people who use their position to get things out of others. I don't have any doubt that Tai understands on some level that as the boss, she has greater sway over what Marten does and how he responds. Would she fire him for no cause? Probably not, but Marten subconsciously does not want to take that chance.

I think you've perfectly put into words why Tai bugs me as well. I'm not sure that I outright dislike her, as I think she has some funny moments and isn't a bad person on the whole, but those traits do bug me. Like you, I'm reminded of behaviour and personalities that rub me the wrong way in real life, so I do find her less sympathetic and agreeable than I think is intended.

It does seem to be about whatever she wants, with little regard to the people around her: I want to be with Dora, so too bad that she's dating my friend and employee while I'm harbouring a crush. I want to be with Dora, so forget that she just broke up with said friend and employee. I want to hold a rave in the library because I want to party at work, so to hell with anyone who doesn't and those fuddy duddies running the college. I want to get high and watch cartoons at work, so Marten can go ahead and train those new interns. I want to be the one to invite Dora to Emily's party, so I'll act like a spoiled child and make the situation incredibly awkward. I need help with my relationship, so I'll ask Marten for advice, no matter how awkward or unpleasant that is for him. I want Dora to open up to me more, and it doesn't matter if she's not ready or not in a place to do so right now. I want to smooth over this fight, because I want to get back to getting it on.

It's not that all of those situations aren't understandable or completely unreasonable, nor is Tai being particularly malicious. She's no villain. But it does come back to her getting what she wants no matter what, and overlooking other people's feelings and/or discomfort along the way. At least, that's how it comes across to me (and I'm guessing you and a couple of others too, based on recent posts...our spiteful banned friend not withstanding). That's why that last line about make-up kisses just doesn't sit well with me. I can't help thinking..."Really? That's your takeaway from all this? Not acknowledging the bigger issue, but just looking for the magic words that'll sweep it under the rug so you can get make-up kisses?"

I know that's reading a lot into one line of dialogue, and making assumptions that she's not going to change her tact or deal with the bigger issue in a better way, but...well, history suggests that as long as Tai's happy and getting what she wants, everything's aces. I think she's setting herself up for a fall if she truly believes that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 18:13
{snip really insightful analysis}

It's not that all of those situations aren't understandable or completely unreasonable, nor is Tai being particularly malicious. She's no villain. But it does come back to her getting what she wants no matter what, and overlooking other people's feelings and/or discomfort along the way. At least, that's how it comes across to me (and I'm guessing you and a couple of others too, based on recent posts...our spiteful banned friend not withstanding). That's why that last line about make-up kisses just doesn't sit well with me. I can't help thinking..."Really? That's your takeaway from all this? Not acknowledging the bigger issue, but just looking for the magic words that'll sweep it under the rug so you can get make-up kisses?"

I know that's reading a lot into one line of dialogue, and making assumptions that she's not going to change her tact or deal with the bigger issue in a better way, but...well, history suggests that as long as Tai's happy and getting what she wants, everything's aces. I think she's setting herself up for a fall if she truly believes that.

Wow, a few of the incidents you brought up were ones I'd forgotten about, but yes, a thousand times yes to this post.

The one time I actually felt for Tai was when she and Dora ran into one of Tai's ex-FWBs. I completely agreed with Dora being weirded out by that, but I could understand Tai not understanding why Dora, her "dream girl" would be freaked out by someone Tai hadn't been all that into, to judge by their interaction in that strip. I liked the resolution, that they were going to give each other some slack. I also thought that Tai's approach to Dora dating her was refreshing, basically telling her "Hey, it may not work and I'm cool with that, but let's at least try."

But I just think that for me, Tai's personality is not sustainable. She wants what she wants, and you either get in line with it or get out. Dora's not Marten. She may attempt to compromise with Tai, but I have had this weird feeling that Dora wants Tai to turn it down a notch and if Tai pushes this, Dora might cut yet another person out of her circle.

I do not think the Dora/Tai relationship will last forever, but I don't see them breaking up unless/until Jeph really wants to downshift Dora's appearances in the comic, because Dora's relationship with Tai is really the only reason we would keep seeing her, IMO. When was the last time we even saw Claire or Emily for that matter in the coffeeshop, Veronica is busy with Jim, Faye's fired, etc., etc. Possibly during a Dale arc but it's been forever since we've seen him, too.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 10 Mar 2015, 18:19
If Faye has delirium tremens in the bathroom, is that WC DTs?

I dunno, but delerium tremens is a rather decent beer.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Mar 2015, 18:45
This is either foreshadowing for a major fight, or a dull pop to the end of the relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 10 Mar 2015, 18:45
Unexpected end of arc.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwilliams on 10 Mar 2015, 18:50
{snipped}
If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."

Did you really just tell a black man where his place was?

For serious? (But he didn't know you were black! Yeah, I know. But A: still happened. B: it's a crappy thing to say no matter who you say it to, unless there is actually a place and someone doesn't own it. Like say a moderator's position.)

{snipped}

RF - Serious, albeit off topic question on language.  I've often heard (and used) expressions like, "Hey, it's not my place to say if they should be doing X." Or many variations on that theme.  To me, that sort of expression is pretty neutral, as opposed to the (clearly offensive) language of saying, "He needs to know his place," or, "I'm going to put her in her place." I take it that you don't hear a difference between the different contexts?

I'm genuinely curious, given that the use of specific language is crucial in my profession, and I honestly hope not to offend a significant number of people with an expression (e.g. It's not my/your/his place to say...) I've always heard in a neutral way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 18:51
{snipped}
If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."

Did you really just tell a black man where his place was?

For serious? (But he didn't know you were black! Yeah, I know. But A: still happened. B: it's a crappy thing to say no matter who you say it to, unless there is actually a place and someone doesn't own it. Like say a moderator's position.)

{snipped}

RF - Serious, albeit off topic question on language.  I've often heard (and used) expressions like, "Hey, it's not my place to say if they should be doing X." Or many variations on that theme.  To me, that sort of expression is pretty neutral, as opposed to the (clearly offensive) language of saying, "He needs to know his place," or, "I'm going to put her in her place." I take it that you don't hear a difference between the different contexts?

I'm genuinely curious, given that the use of specific language is crucial in my profession, and I honestly hope not to offend a significant number of people with an expression (e.g. It's not my/your/his place to say...) I've always heard in a neutral way.

Hyperbole.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 10 Mar 2015, 18:56
I don't really get Dora/Tai as a couple. idk. I don't dislike it, I just don't really get the appeal for either of them.

I do think that Tai is immature. I don't remember how old Tai is in relation to the cast, but she acts much younger. I mean, she is still in that "college" mindset, and in the context of college her behavior makes sense. Idk, I do find her childish and some of her behavior is grating, but I don't think she is a bad person or anything. She just has a lot of living to do.

I kind of see a parent/child dynamic between Dora and Tai. Dora acts maternal to everyone (which doesn't exactly help her control issues) and Tai acts childish. The dynamic creeps me out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: sitnspin on 10 Mar 2015, 18:57
{snipped}
If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."

Whether or not something gets communicated clearly ( or at all) is entirely up to the listener, not the speaker. It is not the speaker's place to decide if they communicated successfully.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwilliams on 10 Mar 2015, 19:01
{snipped}
If you don't agree, that's fine, but it's not really your place to tell me or anyone else that pointing out something that twigs as a personality trait "doesn't communicate anything."

Did you really just tell a black man where his place was?

For serious? (But he didn't know you were black! Yeah, I know. But A: still happened. B: it's a crappy thing to say no matter who you say it to, unless there is actually a place and someone doesn't own it. Like say a moderator's position.)

{snipped}

RF - Serious, albeit off topic question on language.  I've often heard (and used) expressions like, "Hey, it's not my place to say if they should be doing X." Or many variations on that theme.  To me, that sort of expression is pretty neutral, as opposed to the (clearly offensive) language of saying, "He needs to know his place," or, "I'm going to put her in her place." I take it that you don't hear a difference between the different contexts?

I'm genuinely curious, given that the use of specific language is crucial in my profession, and I honestly hope not to offend a significant number of people with an expression (e.g. It's not my/your/his place to say...) I've always heard in a neutral way.

Hyperbole.

Thank goodness.  I was afraid that you were a bit nutty.  Now I can enjoy your posts again.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 10 Mar 2015, 19:19
Unexpected end of arc.

Not with a bang but a whimper.

Of course the last Dora/Marten fight happened pretty quickly after the one before it was resolved so there's still some hope.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Mar 2015, 19:19
I kind of see a parent/child dynamic between Dora and Tai. Dora acts maternal to everyone (which doesn't exactly help her control issues) and Tai acts childish. The dynamic creeps me out.

That might actually why it works for Dora. She has someone who can fulfil her need to control a given situation and Tai is emotionally immature enough to not realise what's happening.

It's not healthy for either of them.

Unexpected end of arc.

Not with a bang but a whimper.

Of course the last Dora/Marten fight happened pretty quickly after the one before it was resolved so there's still some hope.

Marten and Dora's relationship went through several cycles of Fight/Makeup/peace and quiet before it started again. We're just seeing the calm before the next storm.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 19:23
I am more than a bit nutty.

Show me someone who isn't and I will show you a corpse or an excellent liar.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Mar 2015, 19:27
Unexpected end of arc.

Quote from: Tai
Yay, we survived our first fight.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8609/16780745505_c4771ebaae.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Toe on 10 Mar 2015, 19:33
3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 10 Mar 2015, 19:39
RF - Serious, albeit off topic question on language.  I've often heard (and used) expressions like, "Hey, it's not my place to say if they should be doing X." Or many variations on that theme.  To me, that sort of expression is pretty neutral, as opposed to the (clearly offensive) language of saying, "He needs to know his place," or, "I'm going to put her in her place." I take it that you don't hear a difference between the different contexts?

I'm genuinely curious, given that the use of specific language is crucial in my profession, and I honestly hope not to offend a significant number of people with an expression (e.g. It's not my/your/his place to say...) I've always heard in a neutral way.

It's not my place to say is an idiom (and usually followed by but I will anyway); it's not someone else's place to say is confrontative.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 10 Mar 2015, 19:41
3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?

Dora occasionally gets overzealous with the butt-grabbing, so she started wearing extra padding.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 10 Mar 2015, 19:41
The QC characters need to be careful with all the greeting card-itis that's going around. One of these days they'll get stuck that way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 10 Mar 2015, 19:42
That resolved itself pretty quickly. Marten's distress at not knowing CoD had a secret menu remains the biggest point of contention between a couple to date...alright, alright, exaggeration. But yeah, that was fast.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the lesson sticks with both of them. Tai's still got a bit of that college mindset, as TRVA123 put it, and Dora has promised to be more open before. If we could grow up, give up our bad habits, and change ourselves in a fingersnap, a lot of professionals would be out of a job.

I don't really get Dora/Tai as a couple. idk. I don't dislike it, I just don't really get the appeal for either of them.

I do think that Tai is immature. I don't remember how old Tai is in relation to the cast, but she acts much younger. I mean, she is still in that "college" mindset, and in the context of college her behavior makes sense. Idk, I do find her childish and some of her behavior is grating, but I don't think she is a bad person or anything. She just has a lot of living to do.

I kind of see a parent/child dynamic between Dora and Tai. Dora acts maternal to everyone (which doesn't exactly help her control issues) and Tai acts childish. The dynamic creeps me out.

I've always got that impression too, though I think TheEvilDog makes a good point about how that kind of suits both characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 10 Mar 2015, 19:52
I don't know that I'd go so far as to say it's like a parent/child relationship. They do, however, come across more like friends with benefits (with a hefty dose of codependence) than as a couple with a deep connection.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 10 Mar 2015, 19:55
3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?

Glad someone else noticed it too. I think I recall her not having much in the curves department/more androgynous body-wise, in previous comics.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Mar 2015, 19:57
I've always got that impression too, though I think TheEvilDog makes a good point about how that kind of suits both characters.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it should suit them, because it isn't healthy, especially for Tai - this is her first major relationship, so she's going to go along with it because she doesn't know any better. Dora has some major control issues and the fact that Tai was the one to initiate the apology means that Dora remains in control.

Most of Marten and Dora's fights were initiated by Dora and in those situations, it was Dora who apologised first. We're seeing a slightly different dynamic here, but I can see more fights in the not too distant future.

Remember that Dora has said before she has control issues and she needs to work on that. It's easy to say you need to do something, but it's something else entirely to actually do it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Penquin47 on 10 Mar 2015, 19:59
3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?

Glad someone else noticed it too. I think I recall her not having much in the curves department/more androgynous body-wise, in previous comics.

Tai even says so (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=768#)!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Consilium on 10 Mar 2015, 20:31
So is in-comic-today the day that Faye goes to the group session? Cause we skipped to the next day right?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 10 Mar 2015, 20:40
Well that was disappointing. I was kind of hoping for Tai moping for the first part of the week; then cut to the rave + orgy in the library for a strip or two where she gets her daily dose of Vitamin E; and closing with Dora coming to apologizes only to find Tai in a 3 way make-out session with a couple of co-eds.

This could have ultimately been what puts Tai, and Faye in the same support group, which some people here have been wanting.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Mar 2015, 20:41
Well that was disappointing. I was kind of hoping for Tai moping for the first part of the week; then cut to the rave + orgy in the library for a strip or two where she gets her daily dose of Vitamin E; and closing with Dora coming to apologizes only to find Tai in a 3 way make-out session with a couple of co-eds.

This could have ultimately been what puts Tai, and Faye in the same support group, which some people here have been wanting.

The rave is still coming up, and anything can happen. Give it time.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 10 Mar 2015, 20:42
3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?

Butts disease.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 10 Mar 2015, 20:48

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it should suit them, because it isn't healthy, especially for Tai - this is her first major relationship, so she's going to go along with it because she doesn't know any better. Dora has some major control issues and the fact that Tai was the one to initiate the apology means that Dora remains in control.

Most of Marten and Dora's fights were initiated by Dora and in those situations, it was Dora who apologised first. We're seeing a slightly different dynamic here, but I can see more fights in the not too distant future.

Remember that Dora has said before she has control issues and she needs to work on that. It's easy to say you need to do something, but it's something else entirely to actually do it.

I honestly don't get this line of thinking. Tai apologized first because she was in the wrong. Dora didn't want to talk about stuff and Tai pushed. On some level, Tai recognizes that but is too self centered to draw it out. Possibly Marten would have brought that up if their conversation had been longer.

It's not Dora's problem that this is Tai's first relationship. If things go south between Marigold and Dale tomorrow because of shit Marigold did, is it going to be Dale's fault because he was her first boyfriend and the first guy she slept with? It's immaterial. Tai's an adult. If she decides she's old enough to be in an adult relationship, then she has to take the consequences.

I see no evidence of "control issues" by Dora in her relationship with Tai. We barely bloody see any interaction between them, so I have no idea where you're even getting that from. Instead of stewing or immediately blowing up and accusing as she would do with Marten, when Dora was bothered by something, she talked it out calmly with Faye, realized where she was possibly being stubborn, and talked it over with Tai immediately. She didn't let the Jim awkwardness linger. She's not passed judgment on the way Tai runs the library or on her recreational drug use. So where are these "control issues" in this relationship?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 10 Mar 2015, 20:52
Well that was disappointing. I was kind of hoping for Tai moping for the first part of the week; then cut to the rave + orgy in the library for a strip or two where she gets her daily dose of Vitamin E; and closing with Dora coming to apologizes only to find Tai in a 3 way make-out session with a couple of co-eds.

This could have ultimately been what puts Tai, and Faye in the same support group, which some people here have been wanting.

Nope.

Remember, part of what led to Tai and Dora ending up together was Tai wanting to be in a monogamous relationship. As far as we know, they don't have an open relationship, and to have Tai just looking for random smooches/hookups/whatever seems like a pretty big stretch.


Don't get me wrong. I don't think it should suit them, because it isn't healthy, especially for Tai - this is her first major relationship, so she's going to go along with it because she doesn't know any better. Dora has some major control issues and the fact that Tai was the one to initiate the apology means that Dora remains in control.

Most of Marten and Dora's fights were initiated by Dora and in those situations, it was Dora who apologised first. We're seeing a slightly different dynamic here, but I can see more fights in the not too distant future.

Remember that Dora has said before she has control issues and she needs to work on that. It's easy to say you need to do something, but it's something else entirely to actually do it.

I honestly don't get this line of thinking. Tai apologized first because she was in the wrong. Dora didn't want to talk about stuff and Tai pushed. On some level, Tai recognizes that but is too self centered to draw it out. Possibly Marten would have brought that up if their conversation had been longer.

It's not Dora's problem that this is Tai's first relationship. If things go south between Marigold and Dale tomorrow because of shit Marigold did, is it going to be Dale's fault because he was her first boyfriend and the first guy she slept with? It's immaterial. Tai's an adult. If she decides she's old enough to be in an adult relationship, then she has to take the consequences.

I see no evidence of "control issues" by Dora in her relationship with Tai. We barely bloody see any interaction between them, so I have no idea where you're even getting that from. Instead of stewing or immediately blowing up and accusing as she would do with Marten, when Dora was bothered by something, she talked it out calmly with Faye, realized where she was possibly being stubborn, and talked it over with Tai immediately. She didn't let the Jim awkwardness linger. She's not passed judgment on the way Tai runs the library or on her recreational drug use. So where are these "control issues" in this relationship?

This.

While, as I mentioned before, I don't see a lot of depth in Dora and Tai's relationship (at least on the evidence in-comic), I think one thing that keeps them together, at least from where Dora's sitting, is that it's lower maintenance than her previous relationships (including the one with Marten). It's likely that she finds it refreshing/comforting to have at least one part of her life where she doesn't have to be in control all the time.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 10 Mar 2015, 22:25
Dawwwwwwww


Huggleses




But I think Jeph could have moved them a bit closer together.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 10 Mar 2015, 22:32
Huh. I stop checking the forum for two days and all that in the past four pages happens? Jeeze.

But hey, they made up! Whoo!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: slydon on 10 Mar 2015, 22:34
Welp, that resolved itself quickly
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 10 Mar 2015, 22:36
Nope.

Remember, part of what led to Tai and Dora ending up together was Tai wanting to be in a monogamous relationship. As far as we know, they don't have an open relationship, and to have Tai just looking for random smooches/hookups/whatever seems like a pretty big stretch.

To paraphrase Rick James "Ecstasy's a helluva drug". That, plus hurt feels due to the argument, plus Tai's immaturity, could lead her to do things in the heat of the moment that she wouldn't do otherwise, and would regret later.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 10 Mar 2015, 22:41
Dora was also wrong. Tai's well intentioned wrong doesn't make Dora right any more than Tai's good intent makes her right. Mistakes were made. Probably more to follow, but meh.

In fact, I think Dora is still wrong. She's trying, to her credit. But her mistake wasn't in not opening up. It was making her defensiveness offensive. The best defense is a good offense, but not in a relationship. Feelings are hard, and people who aren't feeling our feelings tend to want us to get over them before we're ready.

In the long term, it would be better for anyone to be less defensive and more open, but Dora probably just needs to work on not responding to so many things with pike walls and boiling oil. That's a thing that goes both ways. Dora tends treat herself the same way, and as someone with enough self-loathing for any ten men, I can say that's not a good thing.

Tai, on the other hand... her issue seems to be what it's always been. She's not big on waiting for gratification. She can do it. But she doesn't always stop to think that now would be a good time to employ that skill.

All that said, if they both drew the best possible lessons from this, it'd be kinda unrealistic.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 10 Mar 2015, 23:32
I don't think Dora was "wrong." I think she was acknowledging by what she should do in the long term, just as you remarked she should do.

She wasn't saying that she needed to have opened up in that specific instance, nor in every instance Tai demands it.

Edit: yay, smartphone word auto-correct :/
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Mar 2015, 00:22
I think that Jeph is giving us a message here. Two adults can have a disagreement and then make up. There doesn't have to be a prolonged separation, cold silences and mediation. Sometimes, a heartfelt apology, clear understanding of the problem and a hug is enough.

Because this is QC, we also get a butt joke! :wink:

Personally, I don't think that Tai even needed Marten's help. It's just that he's become her 'Dr Relationship'; she needed him to confirm that she was on the right track as to her next move. I think the body language of both her and Dora are lovely here. We can see clearly how much this argument upset them both and how sorry that they were. I suspect that this relationship may have legs.

3rd panel: since when does Tai have dat ass? Did she get implants?

Look at the angle of her body. She's leaning forwards and it's making her backside stick out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 00:40
I don't think Dora was "wrong." I think she was acknowledging by what she should do in the long term, just as you remarked she should do.

She wasn't saying that she needed to have opened up in that specific instance, nor in every instance Tai demands it.

Edit: yay, smartphone word auto-correct :/

Just because it might better if we did it a thing, does it follow that we should do that thing? While I think there's decent scientific evidence to support the idea that being more open and less defensive leads to better outcomes, my personal experiences have not tracked to that evidence.

It turns out that being more open only leads to improved outcomes when your support group is actually supportive. I don't think Dora's best choice is more open and less defensive. It might be. It might not be. So when I say I think she's wrong, I'm saying I shade more towards "it might not be." YMMV, of course.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zog on 11 Mar 2015, 00:44
I think that many of Tai's annoying traits are in a way related to her endearing traits. Most of the things I like about her stem from her childlike behaviour. Sometimes she crosses the line and acts childish, one of the negative traits of children is selfishness.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 11 Mar 2015, 01:36
squee
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 11 Mar 2015, 01:49
Just because it might better if we did it a thing, does it follow that we should do that thing? While I think there's decent scientific evidence to support the idea that being more open and less defensive leads to better outcomes, my personal experiences have not tracked to that evidence.

It turns out that being more open only leads to improved outcomes when your support group is actually supportive. I don't think Dora's best choice is more open and less defensive. It might be. It might not be. So when I say I think she's wrong, I'm saying I shade more towards "it might not be." YMMV, of course.

Sounds like my mileage does vary, yes. I do think that being more open and less defensive in relationships leads to better outcomes overall. I guess (emphasis on the word guess) that maybe you're concerned that the risk of being more open is that you will be hurt? Yes, that is possible. But in avoiding that risk, you're also avoiding the potential of a much closer, healthier relationship. So in that sense, overall, you are still better off being more open, even if in particular instance you might think in hindsight that you should not have been.

If your support group is not supportive... well this may sound glib, but it's not a support group then, is it?

What do you mean by "it's better to do a thing" if not that it "leads to better outcomes"? I'm a little confused by that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 11 Mar 2015, 02:05
I think that Jeph is giving us a message here. Two adults can have a disagreement and then make up. There doesn't have to be a prolonged separation, cold silences and mediation. Sometimes, a heartfelt apology, clear understanding of the problem and a hug is enough.
Possibly, but remember that Dora and Marten had several disagreements before breaking up. This was just the first warning, I guess more will come. It seems Dora is slowly heading for a friendless life (OK, she still has Mieville (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2429), unless she has run away, we have not seen her for a very long time).

As for stable relationships in general, they do not make good stories. Therefore, the main characters in QC only have short term relationships, which sooner or later will fail. Secondary characters, like Steve and Cosette, or Will and Penelope, may form more stable relationships, but the consequence is that they are more or less disappearing from the series. There are just not many interesting things to tell. The same thing seems to be happening with Marigold and Dale, they are slowly disappearing from the series.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Mar 2015, 02:17
squee

This is basically the reason you come here, isn't it Zoe? :wink:

I think that Jeph is giving us a message here. Two adults can have a disagreement and then make up. There doesn't have to be a prolonged separation, cold silences and mediation. Sometimes, a heartfelt apology, clear understanding of the problem and a hug is enough.

As for stable relationships in general, they do not make good stories.

It all depends on the amount of effort you are willing to put into writing them. To me arbitrary and cookie-cutter 'teh dramaz' are a lazy way of creating character interaction and growth. There are other ways of doing it without having the characters descend into fights every time you feature them on-screen.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 02:28
Just because it might better if we did it a thing, does it follow that we should do that thing? While I think there's decent scientific evidence to support the idea that being more open and less defensive leads to better outcomes, my personal experiences have not tracked to that evidence.

It turns out that being more open only leads to improved outcomes when your support group is actually supportive. I don't think Dora's best choice is more open and less defensive. It might be. It might not be. So when I say I think she's wrong, I'm saying I shade more towards "it might not be." YMMV, of course.

Sounds like my mileage does vary, yes. I do think that being more open and less defensive in relationships leads to better outcomes overall. I guess (emphasis on the word guess) that maybe you're concerned that the risk of being more open is that you will be hurt? Yes, that is possible. But in avoiding that risk, you're also avoiding the potential of a much closer, healthier relationship. So in that sense, overall, you are still better off being more open, even if in particular instance you might think in hindsight that you should not have been.

If your support group is not supportive... well this may sound glib, but it's not a support group then, is it?

What do you mean by "it's better to do a thing" if not that it "leads to better outcomes"? I'm a little confused by that.

The operative word there being might. Might be better = might lead to better outcomes. Might not, too.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained is limited by what you can afford to venture. Open only works if the door swings both ways. Everyone claims they want to hear your truth, but it turns out that most just want you to confirm their beliefs. Marten would be open to open. Hanners, too. Don't know about any other cast member.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 11 Mar 2015, 02:42
today's is a very disappointing comic, but I draw comfort from the fact that it does not feature Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 11 Mar 2015, 03:12
The operative word there being might. Might be better = might lead to better outcomes. Might not, too.

Okay, well I'm not going to try to argue with a "might" (anything might happen, I suppose), except to point out that this statement is a long long way from your opening bold statement that Dora was wrong.

Bottom line: she has decided that she should be less defensive and more open, and I happen to agree. I'll just leave you with that.

Edit: you didn't originally say it "might be better", btw - you said "it would be better".
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 03:53
No body is perfect. It would better for (just about) anyone to be more open and less defensive, if everyone was. I should have loaded my original post with more qualifiers.

As an immediate response, I stand by my assessment. "More open and less defensive" is, I think, the wrong choice. In the long term, that could be different, but a relationship doesn't happen in the long term. It happens now, just like everything else.

Defensive and closed are what Dora is. Contrast that to Tai's apology which is about what she did. Trying become something other than what you usually ends in pain. Focusing on what you did, and what you want to differently provides clear goals and unambiguous boundaries.

Changing the behavior seems like a better plan. Let's not mischaracterize my opening bold statement while we're pointing out what I originally said. If you want to hold me to to "would be better" you've got to accept that I think Dora is wrong and Dora probably needs to focus on smaller items. I may not have qualified one statement enough, but I made it pretty clear otherwise that I was stating my view, not a bold declaration of universal truth.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 11 Mar 2015, 03:59
Man, that reminds me soo much of arguments that weren't really about the content of the words (One can argue about Tai or Dora being "right" or wrong here), but about the tone. If Dora would have just told Tai to lay it off any nicer, something like 'I get that you worry, but I don't want to talk about it right now. How about we do something else?', there wouldn't be any fight to speak of.

But I can't really think about it since Tai and Dora seem to stand a hand-width apart at least. How did that happen o.O
And how did Tai manage to change her body-type that much? I remember her being small and having a relative androgynous body type...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 11 Mar 2015, 04:23
People do gain weight sometimes, you know. When a skinny woman gains a few pounds often the first place they go is the butt.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Mar 2015, 04:34
People do gain weight sometimes, you know. When a skinny woman gains a few pounds often the first place they go is the butt.

The early strips with Tai indicate that she had body image issues arising from homophobic bullying at high school. Having a woman who loves her and is clearly very impressed with her body might have changed lots of things for her. For example, she's obviously stopped binding down her breasts and she might be eating more healthily.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 04:35
I remember when the only evidence that Faye was "squishy" was Faye saying she was squishy, and Dora commenting on the size of her butt. Claire used to be ganglier. So much so, that she actually looks shorter to me now. If she is drawn shorter, though, it's by a hair.

Marten used to be less scarecrow looking and before that he was more scarecrow looking. Steve used to be the Player 2 version of Marten. My favorite rendering of Dora looked nothing like Marten. The current version only sometimes resembles him, but there was period where they really did look like variations on a theme.

I guess I'm saying it doesn't really register as problem, to me, that Tai isn't quite on the same model as she used to be.

And I suppose my argument could be summed as "it's about the tone." Dora could have deflected less aggressively, and while coulda shoulda woulda, it is a thing that one can define as concrete step forward. "I will try not to attack when I'm not feeling ready to talk."

No comment on the awkward hug.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 11 Mar 2015, 05:05
Man, that reminds me soo much of arguments that weren't really about the content of the words (One can argue about Tai or Dora being "right" or wrong here), but about the tone. If Dora would have just told Tai to lay it off any nicer, something like 'I get that you worry, but I don't want to talk about it right now. How about we do something else?', there wouldn't be any fight to speak of.

I agree. Like I said in the last WCDT, if Dora doesn't want to talk about something she needs to say that. She can't immediately take up a defensive, closed position and then say that the person's concern for her is wrong.

I do see where ReindeerFlotilla is coming from though, because that's essentially how she rationalizes her own decisions to herself. It's hard to see that changing, even if Dora changes her mind on these specific decisions. So now we're in a position where Dora might nicely tell Tai how she doesn't want to talk about whatever emotional minefield she brings up. Even though I believe that would've worked for the conversation they had, that doesn't mean it'll work indefinitely based on what Tai wants out of their relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 06:10
There is a tricky balance between when one person is able to talk, and when another needs to talk. In a relationship, these events may not coincide. If both parties can't find a means to manage that, and find the balance the works for them, the relationship must fail.

Dora can't shut Tai out, but not shutting her out isn't necessarily the same as opening up. I would posit that some people can't afford to open up--at least not in the simplified way people tend to mean when they use that term. It's simply too messy inside for them to do so.

But those people can clear a space. Occasionally clear out the sitting room and let someone in that far. Maybe they will find the person who gets a peek behind the doors and isn't terrified of the mess.

I'm not saying Dora is too messy inside. It's possible from what we know of her history, but she might just be tightly wound. But the same concept applies, whether you have a mess or not. Few are closed because it's just the cool thing. To them, what is inside is unworthy, or something. They are afraid that if anyone sees it, that one will run. And not stop running.

Learning not to blow up is a step, but it's not the journey. Figuring how to balance Tai's needs against her own is. As the Joe team will tell you, that's only half the battle. Tai has learn to wait for an invitation. Like I said, delayed gratification isn't her strong suit. Tai has to learn to balance Dora's needs against her own as well.

Who knows? Enough steps, and Dora might find she has become less defensive and more open.

Tova's guess about me was incorrect. I'm not afraid of getting hurt. I'm afraid of many things. Bees, for example. But getting hurt is not something I fear. It's something I know will happen, and I'm ill prepared to deal with it. It's possible the science is incorrect. That happens. Science adjusts over time, moving ever closer to the truth. But the science seems to say that the benefit of openness is not freedom from hurt. It's an improved sense of self. That improvement comes from the ability to handle being hurt.

The science says you will be hurt. A lot. It's how you deal with it that makes being open work. I don't have the capacity to deal with it. Maybe I never will. I tried being open and it didn't work. Because I thought it was something you jump into. Grit the teeth and fake it until you don't mind the pain. Learn to trust.

I know now that it's not learning trust, but who you trust. (Trust no one, Mr. Mulder.) When you trust someone not to try to hurt you, you allow them slack when they do hurt you. And you develop a sense of security that allows you to let slide hurts from others--because you trust someone to have your back. Tai is, I think, a who Dora should trust. But given the opinions of Tai expressed here, I could not recommend my opinion as a basis to act. Either way, jumping in without first setting that trust on firm foundation makes it certain that when Tai does hurt her (and she will) Dora will recoil, rather than extending the benefit of doubt and tolerating the hurt until things become clear. Baby steps.

I'm a cynic, but I'm not a total misanthrope.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 11 Mar 2015, 06:40
I also think that trust is a choice. I mean, before you make that choice you should evaluate the person you are looking to trust. But in a relationship, you either consciously choose to trust someone, or you don't.

Dora obviously didn't choose to trust Marten, she constantly thought he was flirting/looking for greener pastures. I can't say her lack of trust was irrational, I mean, I  can understand her insecurities with Faye living in the same apartment. But once Dora realized (and I'm never sure she realized) that she couldn't choose to trust Marten, she should have broken the relationship off.

Actually, I think that is what she did. Dora seems slow on the whole introspection thing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 11 Mar 2015, 06:58
But I think Jeph could have moved them a bit closer together.

Yeah.  That's the one main flaw I see in the comic.

In my experience with hugging friends and dating partners when I was in my 20s, the following was mostly true:  Women hug non-romantic interests "from the boobs up" (e.g., leaning in, but keeping crotches apart) and have full-body contact with their romantic interests/partners.  There were exceptions (I had one female friend who gave full body hugs, and was told by her female friends she "hugged like a lesbian") but this is mostly the case. 

I cannot see what circumstance, particularly after a fight, one would hug their partner and have no contact with their body besides the arms.  I mean, I understand it's not supposed to be a moment of high passion, but it doesn't seem like a moment of romantic intimacy either.  They should be all totally smooshed into each other.  Maybe Jeph just doesn't want creeps to fap to it though. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Mar 2015, 07:13
Re.: Hugging distance.

Personally, I'm seeing that as an art short-falling rather than anything significant in character or story terms. Jeph (in various Clairten clinches) has already shown that he isn't particularly good at kisses or hugs; he may have decided that a clear separation between the two ladies in question was the only way he could make the image not look weird.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 11 Mar 2015, 07:21
I'd like to see a check in about how Tai feels about Dora and their relationship. She went in with complete infatuation, but I dunno how that has transformed. I feel like part of that infatuation was her trying to be monogamous and convincing herself her pick was the absolute best. Anyway, with how infatuated she was and how much she wants a monogamous relationship, I don't really see her hooking up with someone else or joining an orgy despite her immaturity. I guess I'd need some sort of catalyst, like another argument or low point in their relationship or maybe a drug mishap, which you can take to mean I like Tai more than most.

I'd also like to see how Dora feels. I get that her being swept of her feet was a sharp contrast to her relationship with Marten, but I'd hope there's more than that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Isyrion on 11 Mar 2015, 11:03
OMG the cutiness...*has heart attack*...

We apologize for the inconvenience but your Isyrion has encountered a fatal error and has to be rebooted.  Please press Control + Alt + Delete to restart.

***

Ok I'm back, in all seriousness now.  I'm glad to see some positive development with Dora here.  Now lets hope she can go this route with Faye when it come time.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 11:03
Re.: Hugging distance.

Personally, I'm seeing that as an art short-falling rather than anything significant in character or story terms. Jeph (in various Clairten clinches) has already shown that he isn't particularly good at kisses or hugs; he may have decided that a clear separation between the two ladies in question was the only way he could make the image not look weird.

(to paraphrase Who Framed Roger Rabbit, they're not distant, they're just drawn that way)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 11 Mar 2015, 11:09
Re.: Hugging distance.

Personally, I'm seeing that as an art short-falling rather than anything significant in character or story terms. Jeph (in various Clairten clinches) has already shown that he isn't particularly good at kisses or hugs; he may have decided that a clear separation between the two ladies in question was the only way he could make the image not look weird.
I agree. Looking at it again, the whole panel... argh. nrhg. Well. At least they hugged.
Question: What do you guys think about the background changing to express the character's emotions? Like, this comic's 'hugging it out' or last week's 'I farted in front of him'?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Knight of Cydonia on 11 Mar 2015, 11:29
I... wow. I'm not expecting great works of literary genius or anything, but I can safely say that was some of the most disappointing "character development" I've seen in QC's entire run. Hell, it feels like everything has been sort of thrown at us at a really weirdly fast pace recently. That might just be the direction Jeph wants to take things and that's cool, it's his choice, but I hope the trend isn't gonna continue for Faye's latest meltdown.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Daniel Patrick Moynihan on 11 Mar 2015, 11:36
Background change in that instance was fine, great in some others, like Libaries: Serious Business.  Not a fan of the "huggin' it out" or "relationship status: optimistic" though, it pushes the already sickly sweet into the Saccharine Zone for me.  I prefer LOOM or FOREBODE.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 11:47
Background change in that instance was fine, great in some others, like Libaries: Serious Business.  Not a fan of the "huggin' it out" or "relationship status: optimistic" though, it pushes the already sickly sweet into the Saccharine Zone for me.  I prefer LOOM or FOREBODE.

My first thought on seeing some of those backgrounds was that it must be time to refresh the merchandise line -- I'm sure each of the panels you mentioned (with the possible exceptions of LOOOOOOOM and FOREBODE) will be seen again as mousepads, t-shirts, tea cozies and the like.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 11:59
I... wow. I'm not expecting great works of literary genius or anything, but I can safely say that was some of the most disappointing "character development" I've seen in QC's entire run. Hell, it feels like everything has been sort of thrown at us at a really weirdly fast pace recently. That might just be the direction Jeph wants to take things and that's cool, it's his choice, but I hope the trend isn't gonna continue for Faye's latest meltdown.

Weirdly fast? Umm, what? Didn't we have like an entire week for one Clariten date? Whatever, that's irrelevant to this specific arc.

I don't see any new development here at all. Dora wants this to work out, and so does Tai. We knew already that Dora felt bad about how she reacted to Tai's insistence; it was the last line of 2909. Admitting there's a problem isn't the same as actually changing.

She might do it, but I just feel like she's said the same thing before. I like Dora, but she does tend to make the same mistakes over and over again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 11 Mar 2015, 12:03
She might do it, but I just feel like she's said the same thing before. I like Dora, but she does tend to make the same mistakes over and over again.

And let's be honest. That is very, very, human.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 12:18
She might do it, but I just feel like she's said the same thing before. I like Dora, but she does tend to make the same mistakes over and over again.

And let's be honest. That is very, very, human.

Apparently it's possible to like this post three times and be counted for all of them
(http://i.imgur.com/QlX9F4O.png)

I, and two other me's appreciate the point you are making
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 11 Mar 2015, 12:23
That's chaos for you.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 11 Mar 2015, 12:30
Question: What do you guys think about the background changing to express the character's emotions? Like, this comic's 'hugging it out' or last week's 'I farted in front of him'?

I don't mind the background changing occasionally, but it's been too frequent lately - and usually seems to happen in panel three.  I do have a problem with the actual caption thing, however, given it's obvious from the picture they're hugging (or rather, huggin')  it out. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 11 Mar 2015, 16:06
Weirdly fast? Umm, what? Didn't we have like an entire week for one Clariten date?

Maybe that's part of whats causing the feeling of being rushed; all the sickly sweet, girlfriend Clare stuff just drags on and on, and now that we're doing something else it feels line we're being railroaded through it as quickly as possible just so we can get back to more squee moments.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 16:31
Weirdly fast? Umm, what? Didn't we have like an entire week for one Clariten date?

Maybe that's part of whats causing the feeling of being rushed; all the sickly sweet, girlfriend Clare stuff just drags on and on, and now that we're doing something else it feels line we're being railroaded through it as quickly as possible just so we can get back to more squee moments.

I feel like Jeph's just telling the story as simply as it needs telling. I don't see how this encounter could have gone longer, since we saw Tai's side and we left Dora reconsidering her reaction. Dora's been stewing in her guilt all day.

If we're moving quickly, it's more likely towards Faye's support group, which I doubt will be especially full of squee. This was a squee moment before the serious sets in, I predict.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 11 Mar 2015, 17:26
If we're moving quickly, it's more likely towards Faye's support group, which I doubt will be especially full of squee. This was a squee moment before the serious sets in, I predict.

I hope you're right, because all the squee has warn out it's welcome as far as i'm concerned.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Interlude on 11 Mar 2015, 18:12
Possibly, but remember that Dora and Marten had several disagreements before breaking up. This was just the first warning, I guess more will come. It seems Dora is slowly heading for a friendless life (OK, she still has Mieville (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2429), unless she has run away, we have not seen her for a very long time).

I've always thought Dora was sort of the odd-girl out in this group of friends. She's at a different place in her life than the other members of the cast. Not only is she older, but she has a set career as a business owner. Sometimes you outgrow a group of friends. It's not a bad thing. It just happens. It's hard to relate to a party girl when you're a very work-oriented person, for example. (It's one of the reasons I feel like the Tai/Dora relationship would have some issues. I can't imagine Dora being okay with the constant drug use or the slacking off and lack of ambition, but that is projection on my part.)

Who is she really close with, anyways? She dated Marten, and while they are okay now, they're not really friends anymore, either. She's never really been close to any of the others, except Faye, and I always felt that was more of an incidental friendship. How often do they hang out, just the two of them, aside from work? That's not even mentioning the current situation between them. Dora's part in the comic has always been as boss of Coffee of Doom. I am afraid that if her friendships with the other cast members fade, she will disappear from the comic. But, as a pretend person, I think she would probably be better off without some of these relationships. Not that any of the other cast are specifically bad for her, but I just don't think she's ever really had a good connection with any of them, and it would be good for her to find other people that she COULD have a supportive and relaxing (that's a weird way to describe friendship, but I know that I am thankful to have friends I can just let my guard down with and chat and have fun with, as well as talk about serious matters) friendship.

Changing the behavior seems like a better plan. Let's not mischaracterize my opening bold statement while we're pointing out what I originally said. If you want to hold me to to "would be better" you've got to accept that I think Dora is wrong and Dora probably needs to focus on smaller items. I may not have qualified one statement enough, but I made it pretty clear otherwise that I was stating my view, not a bold declaration of universal truth.

I think that is a good point. It's hard to change something about yourself that is...well, such a big part of yourself. And if that's what you focus on, it can be easy to start feeling like you are a problem/worthless/etc. It would probably be a lot easier to start with the smaller things-- how she talked to Tai was the problem, not the message of what she was saying.


Note: Dora is the character I relate to the most in this comic, so clearly I am biased.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 11 Mar 2015, 19:37
Aww, now I'm sad. I didn't want to be sad tonight Jeph :(
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 19:44
Aww, now I'm sad. I didn't want to be sad tonight Jeph :(

As upset as I am... I fucking called it. We're on the express train to melacholy from here till Monday, folks, or so I suspect. We may get a glimmer of hope, but it will be temporary, until the rift between Faye and Dora is fully healed, anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Mar 2015, 19:53
Two things:

1. Faye took control of the convo and the situation. She's the John Lennon of this Beatles breakup. They're not gonna reconcile until Faye says so.

2. That .horse t-shirt is going to be a big seller. I'm calling it right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 11 Mar 2015, 19:53
Aww, now I'm sad. I didn't want to be sad tonight Jeph :(

WWW.QUESTIONABLECONTENT.HORSE  will make you feel better.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 19:53
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: FunkyTuba on 11 Mar 2015, 19:59
Jeph should sell the .horse shirts to pay for his walmart.horse legal defense fund.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Mar 2015, 20:02
Dora isn't that much older than the crew. And come to think of it, this is quite possibly the first time she's ever had to fire someone, and it is her closest friend. It's no surprise really  that she's hurt and bothered by having to do it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Radical AC on 11 Mar 2015, 20:07
I wonder how much of a draw Faye was to CoD. She obviously wasn't a high performer at the end, but her attitude was a business point in earlier comics.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 20:13
I've wondered that, too. It hasn't been a plot point in a while, though, so that moment may have passed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 11 Mar 2015, 20:16
I've wondered that, too. It hasn't been a plot point in a while, though, so that moment may have passed.

another lost plot point, what happened to the other CoD? Remember, Dora had to make Faye manager due to opening a second location.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Truec on 11 Mar 2015, 20:27
another lost plot point, what happened to the other CoD? Remember, Dora had to make Faye manager due to opening a second location.

No, Faye became manager because Dora couldn't handle her workload, same reason she hired Dale.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 11 Mar 2015, 20:33
another lost plot point, what happened to the other CoD? Remember, Dora had to make Faye manager due to opening a second location.

No, Faye became manager because Dora couldn't handle her workload, same reason she hired Dale.

Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 11 Mar 2015, 20:40
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.

The situations aren't analogous, though, because it would require Faye to get her head out of her butt and acknowledge that in the case of what she did specifically to Dora, which was break her trust, she fucked up. She has acknowledged everything else - her issues with drinking, her need for therapy, her need for a support group - but she has not yet acknowledged that she betrayed Dora and she hasn't done this because Faye is in her feelings about this and feels Dora was wrong to fire her. Maybe she understands it on some level, but she is still pissed about it. Dora realized immediately that she was out of line on Tai. Faye probably feels that she is being virtuous and adult by not calling Dora names or shittalking her.

I, for one, will be fine if this friendship is over for good and Dora finds a group of friends that appreciate her. I hope that is the epiphany she has, similar to the one she had when she inevitably realized Marten wasn't in love with her and never was going to be so the relationship had to end. Maybe Dora will start making the sort of changes in her social life that will bring her to a class of people who recognize her great attributes and will not act like shitlords to her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 21:01
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.

The situations aren't analogous, though, because it would require Faye to get her head out of her butt and acknowledge that in the case of what she did specifically to Dora, which was break her trust, she fucked up. She has acknowledged everything else - her issues with drinking, her need for therapy, her need for a support group - but she has not yet acknowledged that she betrayed Dora and she hasn't done this because Faye is in her feelings about this and feels Dora was wrong to fire her. Maybe she understands it on some level, but she is still pissed about it. Dora realized immediately that she was out of line on Tai. Faye probably feels that she is being virtuous and adult by not calling Dora names or shittalking her.

I, for one, will be fine if this friendship is over for good and Dora finds a group of friends that appreciate her. I hope that is the epiphany she has, similar to the one she had when she inevitably realized Marten wasn't in love with her and never was going to be so the relationship had to end. Maybe Dora will start making the sort of changes in her social life that will bring her to a class of people who recognize her great attributes and will not act like shitlords to her.

You recognize that if this happened, focus would shift from Marten, the so-called 'main character' to Dora, who would be portrayed as an asshole by virtue of abandonment. There are two sides to every conflict.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 21:09
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.

The situations aren't analogous, though, because it would require Faye to get her head out of her butt and acknowledge that in the case of what she did specifically to Dora, which was break her trust, she fucked up. She has acknowledged everything else - her issues with drinking, her need for therapy, her need for a support group - but she has not yet acknowledged that she betrayed Dora and she hasn't done this because Faye is in her feelings about this and feels Dora was wrong to fire her. Maybe she understands it on some level, but she is still pissed about it. Dora realized immediately that she was out of line on Tai. Faye probably feels that she is being virtuous and adult by not calling Dora names or shittalking her.

I, for one, will be fine if this friendship is over for good and Dora finds a group of friends that appreciate her. I hope that is the epiphany she has, similar to the one she had when she inevitably realized Marten wasn't in love with her and never was going to be so the relationship had to end. Maybe Dora will start making the sort of changes in her social life that will bring her to a class of people who recognize her great attributes and will not act like shitlords to her.


Fuck, Tai is DATING her. If a person I was dating told she thought everyone in her social circle was against her, I'd think she had a persecution complex, too!  Her friends ain't shitlords for giving their honest opinions, dude!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Natswash on 11 Mar 2015, 21:17
another lost plot point, what happened to the other CoD? Remember, Dora had to make Faye manager due to opening a second location.

No, Faye became manager because Dora couldn't handle her workload, same reason she hired Dale.

Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?

Of all the music they could bring, you want to know about Nirvana?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 21:17
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.

The situations aren't analogous, though, because it would require Faye to get her head out of her butt and acknowledge that in the case of what she did specifically to Dora, which was break her trust, she fucked up. She has acknowledged everything else - her issues with drinking, her need for therapy, her need for a support group - but she has not yet acknowledged that she betrayed Dora and she hasn't done this because Faye is in her feelings about this and feels Dora was wrong to fire her. Maybe she understands it on some level, but she is still pissed about it. Dora realized immediately that she was out of line on Tai. Faye probably feels that she is being virtuous and adult by not calling Dora names or shittalking her.

I, for one, will be fine if this friendship is over for good and Dora finds a group of friends that appreciate her. I hope that is the epiphany she has, similar to the one she had when she inevitably realized Marten wasn't in love with her and never was going to be so the relationship had to end. Maybe Dora will start making the sort of changes in her social life that will bring her to a class of people who recognize her great attributes and will not act like shitlords to her.

Faye realized pretty early on that she fucked up, and it's quite possible that she's every bit as pissed at herself as at Dora right now. Rather than relying on snark -- her usual fallback defense mechanism -- she's acknowledging that she's not ready to talk about this yet, which I think is healthier than trying to put on a brave face and have a superficial conversation that either doesn't say what she really needs to say to Dora (the admission of guilt that you mention) or that just ends up a bunch of bullshit platitudes.

What I was referring to was the fact that in remaining silent, they were both coming from a similar place. They both have things they either don't want to, or aren't ready to, talk about, and they're both taking some part of that out on people who don't deserve it -- Dora with Tai, Faye with Dora. I thought that being on the receiving end of the same attitude she'd shown Tai might give Dora a little different perspective. It'll be interesting to see whether tomorrow or Monday's strip leads to Dora, like Tai, deciding to take a different tack and seeing if that gets her anywhere.

As for her relationship with Marten, you're overlooking the fact that both of them shoulder the blame for that. Besides which, regardless of how many "great attributes" someone has -- and Dora does have her share -- they don't go very far in salvaging a toxic relationship. The end of something that isn't right, whether for one's own sanity or for self-preservation, is far from being a "shitlord."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 21:20
I don't see how you get Faye not thinking she deserved to be fired in this strip. 'No hard feelings' implies that she knows she deserved the firing, but isn't going to hold it against Dora. If she didn't think she deserved it, she wouldn't be skulking in and all but declaring that she won't darken the shop's doorstep again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 11 Mar 2015, 21:21
Well, this is interesting.  In the past couple of weeks (in-comic), Dora decided to cut Sven out of her life, and fired Faye, and then almost pushed her girlfriend away over the first two issues.  But Tai came back and they made up, so seeing Faye return to the shop may have given her a glimmer of hope.  Fix two relationships in one day!  Or not.  Faye shot her down, hard.  That can't be good for her morale.  I doubt she's going to consider trying to patch things up with Sven, now--and her little argument with Tai might just have been the first of many.

Thing is, Jeph doesn't actually need to turn Dora into QC's newest punching bag, because she's pretty good at beating herself up already.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 11 Mar 2015, 21:28
another lost plot point, what happened to the other CoD? Remember, Dora had to make Faye manager due to opening a second location.

No, Faye became manager because Dora couldn't handle her workload, same reason she hired Dale.

Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?
tywren is a time traveler from the very distant future, after the universe's Poincaré recurrence time. They bring Nirvana albums, but they're a very close approximation of the ones you've already heard.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 11 Mar 2015, 21:33
The last Special is meant to be "Kaleidoscope", in case you were curious.

Wonder why Jeph didn't make WWW.QUESTIONABLECONTENT.HORSE a clickable link?
Because horses make everything better!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 21:34
Wonder if Dora will make the connection between how she's feeling right now and how Tai felt a few strips back as a result of Dora shutting her out.

The situations aren't analogous, though, because it would require Faye to get her head out of her butt and acknowledge that in the case of what she did specifically to Dora, which was break her trust, she fucked up. She has acknowledged everything else - her issues with drinking, her need for therapy, her need for a support group - but she has not yet acknowledged that she betrayed Dora and she hasn't done this because Faye is in her feelings about this and feels Dora was wrong to fire her. Maybe she understands it on some level, but she is still pissed about it. Dora realized immediately that she was out of line on Tai. Faye probably feels that she is being virtuous and adult by not calling Dora names or shittalking her.

I, for one, will be fine if this friendship is over for good and Dora finds a group of friends that appreciate her. I hope that is the epiphany she has, similar to the one she had when she inevitably realized Marten wasn't in love with her and never was going to be so the relationship had to end. Maybe Dora will start making the sort of changes in her social life that will bring her to a class of people who recognize her great attributes and will not act like shitlords to her.


Fuck, Tai is DATING her. If a person I was dating told she thought everyone in her social circle was against her, I'd think she had a persecution complex, too!  Her friends ain't shitlords for giving their honest opinions, dude!

I don't see how you get Faye not thinking she deserved to be fired in this strip. 'No hard feelings' implies that she knows she deserved the firing, but isn't going to hold it against Dora. If she didn't think she deserved it, she wouldn't be skulking in and all but declaring that she won't darken the shop's doorstep again.

Your bias against Faye is seriously coloring your interpretation of the strip, methinks.

She literallybhas stuff on the property, what the fuck, did we SEE her taking the war ladel to Marten and her apartment? Reclaiming your own propery doems not equal secession from Coffee of Doom//friendship of Dora territory, though it will undoubtedly through a huge fucking wrench in the Dora/Faye friendship arena, possibly crippling it for life.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 11 Mar 2015, 21:39
Aww, poor Dora. I wonder if that's all we'll see of them, with maybe just a strip of Faye's one last look. Faye's being pretty mature about this, except that I think she should apologize before breaking contact again for who knows how long.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 21:39
"Just let me grab my gear, take one last look at the place, and then I'll get out."

That's a pretty good indication that Faye intends to not come back, at least for now. I don't see how it could be read any other way.

At the very least, it hints that she doesn't feel she should be there, and that's not taking into consideration that her most recent memories of the place aren't good ones. If she didn't need her things, I doubt she'd have set foot in the place for a good long while, if at all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 11 Mar 2015, 21:48
"Just let me grab my gear, take one last look at the place, and then I'll get out."

That's a pretty good indication that Faye intends to not come back, at least for now. I don't see how it could be read any other way.

At the very least, it hints that she doesn't feel she should be there, and that's not taking into consideration that her most recent memories of the place aren't good ones. If she didn't need her things, I doubt she'd have set foot in the place for a good long while, if at all.

Faye, no. Marten, possibly, and Tai, definitely. We won't likely see CoD in the most immediate future, due to support group, but it is most definitely NOT written out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 21:51
I was talking about Faye and only Faye. I wasn't even thinking or saying anything about the others, nor did I say that I thought the shop would be written out, nor do I think that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 21:51
Faye realized pretty early on that she fucked up, and it's quite possible that she's every bit as pissed at herself as at Dora right now. Rather than relying on snark -- her usual fallback defense mechanism -- she's acknowledging that she's not ready to talk about this yet, which I think is healthier than trying to put on a brave face and have a superficial conversation that either doesn't say what she really needs to say to Dora (the admission of guilt that you mention) or that just ends up a bunch of bullshit platitudes.

What I was referring to was the fact that in remaining silent, they were both coming from a similar place. They both have things they either don't want to, or aren't ready to, talk about, and they're both taking some part of that out on people who don't deserve it -- Dora with Tai, Faye with Dora. I thought that being on the receiving end of the same attitude she'd shown Tai might give Dora a little different perspective. It'll be interesting to see whether tomorrow or Monday's strip leads to Dora, like Tai, deciding to take a different tack and seeing if that gets her anywhere.

As for her relationship with Marten, you're overlooking the fact that both of them shoulder the blame for that. Besides which, regardless of how many "great attributes" someone has -- and Dora does have her share -- they don't go very far in salvaging a toxic relationship. The end of something that isn't right, whether for one's own sanity or for self-preservation, is far from being a "shitlord."

I agree up to the taking it out on Dora part. Faye's admitting without over much drama that--Like Ultra Magnus--she can't deal with that now. I expect that there are hard feelings, but Faye understands that they aren't fair, which is part of the issue. She's actively trying not to take it out on Dora. She doing what Dora should have done, and didn't.

Unanswered is whether she is lying--to herself and/or Dora--when she implies that she anticipates a time when she can deal with that. Faye has, generally, treated CoD as a job like any other. Her final line today implies rather more sentiment about the shop. This may imply that she wasn't quite as aimless as she appeared. She wasn't building for a life after CoD because she loved her life with CoD.

I do believe the parallel still stands, even though I think admitting she wasn't up to the conversation Tai wanted was the right thing and what Dora should have done. Being DENIED when reaching out hurts. Dora is in Tai's place, and Faye didn't giver Dora a justification to lash out and express that hurt the way Dora did with Tai (not that lashing out is good). SO Dora is in the same place Tai was, but with fewer options. Maybe seeing that will help.

Not beat the Dora/Tai/open-up .horse to death, but there are things you can do when you can't deal with that now, to make it better. Hugging it out, for example. "I am sorry that I cannot give you what you want/need right now. So I will give you this to express that I do care and it is not you, it really is me." Faye tried to do that with "No hard feelings," but that does ring a little hollow.

All that said, Dora's not pushing the issue: A sign of a reasonable response (because that can only lead to a fight, if you think about it) or Dora guilt?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 11 Mar 2015, 21:51

{snipped}

What I was referring to was the fact that in remaining silent, they were both coming from a similar place. They both have things they either don't want to, or aren't ready to, talk about, and they're both taking some part of that out on people who don't deserve it -- Dora with Tai, Faye with Dora. I thought that being on the receiving end of the same attitude she'd shown Tai might give Dora a little different perspective. It'll be interesting to see whether tomorrow or Monday's strip leads to Dora, like Tai, deciding to take a different tack and seeing if that gets her anywhere.

The difference, IMO of course, is that Tai was actively being a prat and digging when Dora was being pretty clear that she didn't want to talk. Tai then snapped at Dora and Dora responded in kind. Was it OK for Dora to do that? No. Should she have said "Hey, you know what, I get that you are concerned, but I don't want to talk about it right now"? Yes, that would have been better. But Tai would not stop prying and Dora lashed out.

As opposed to here, where Dora is respecting Faye's desire to not speak. She tried it and Faye shut it down, and Dora is doing what Tai should have done and backed off. So I don't think Dora is going to necessarily draw many comparisons between what's going on here and what went on with her and Tai, not least because Dora likely still feels guilty about firing Faye in the first place.

As for her relationship with Marten, you're overlooking the fact that both of them shoulder the blame for that. Besides which, regardless of how many "great attributes" someone has -- and Dora does have her share -- they don't go very far in salvaging a toxic relationship. The end of something that isn't right, whether for one's own sanity or for self-preservation, is far from being a "shitlord."

I'm ... honestly not sure where Marten comes into this. Maybe my post was unclear? I'm sorry if so.

The end of this situation came because Faye destroyed the trust Dora had in her. Marten didn't destroy Dora's trust. She couldn't shake off the idea that if he'd had his druthers he'd not be with her, and she was more than likely right. Faye generally only backs down on something when she's called on her shit, as when Raven called her out for being a bitch when Faye dumped on her for no reason the night they were closing the shop and Marten was there. Else, yes, it is my opinion that Faye generally treats her friends, save Marty and possibly Hannelore, like they are vassals. There are some exceptions, but not many.

Additional note: I would suggest that anyone who feels that my "bias" against Faye somehow makes my expressing my opinion on this forum invalid to skip my posts or put me on ignore. I have no desire to fight with anyone, but my opinion is my opinion. Thanks.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 21:55
Bah. Dang tablet. I'm having a terrible time with this thing tonight. I'm going to bed. Can't get my damned quotes right.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 11 Mar 2015, 22:16
Bah. Dang tablet. I'm having a terrible time with this thing tonight. I'm going to bed. Can't get my damned quotes right.

BUT I NEED TO KNOW IF YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING FUNNY.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 22:19
Nah, just more of my stupidity.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 11 Mar 2015, 22:21
But that's funny too :p
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 11 Mar 2015, 22:23
Damn it Explicit, quit encouraging me to post from my phone, in bed, and making me make more of an ass of myself  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 11 Mar 2015, 22:26
But I'm booooooorrrrrrrreddddddddd
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 11 Mar 2015, 22:32
Read a book.





This does not bode well for tomorrows (Friday) strip

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 11 Mar 2015, 22:35
Why not?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 11 Mar 2015, 22:38
Quote
Quote
What I was referring to was the fact that in remaining silent, they were both coming from a similar place. They both have things they either don't want to, or aren't ready to, talk about, and they're both taking some part of that out on people who don't deserve it -- Dora with Tai, Faye with Dora. I thought that being on the receiving end of the same attitude she'd shown Tai might give Dora a little different perspective. It'll be interesting to see whether tomorrow or Monday's strip leads to Dora, like Tai, deciding to take a different tack and seeing if that gets her anywhere.

The difference, IMO of course, is that Tai was actively being a prat and digging when Dora was being pretty clear that she didn't want to talk. Tai then snapped at Dora and Dora responded in kind. Was it OK for Dora to do that? No. Should she have said "Hey, you know what, I get that you are concerned, but I don't want to talk about it right now"? Yes, that would have been better. But Tai would not stop prying and Dora lashed out.

As opposed to here, where Dora is respecting Faye's desire to not speak. She tried it and Faye shut it down, and Dora is doing what Tai should have done and backed off. So I don't think Dora is going to necessarily draw many comparisons between what's going on here and what went on with her and Tai, not least because Dora likely still feels guilty about firing Faye in the first place.

I sincerely doubt that Tai was prying for the sake of "being a prat." You mean to tell me you've never had a conversation with someone where you knew darn well something was wrong and the person to whom you were speaking wasn't telling you? And had it bother you that they were bothered, not because it had anything to do with you but because you loved or otherwise cared about them? As RF mentions above, neither of them handled it as well as they could've (and I also agree that being shot down when you're trying to help someone or hear them out rather sucks when you're on the receiving end), but I think it's stretching it a bit to say that Tai's poking the bear just for the sake of it.

As for her relationship with Marten, you're overlooking the fact that both of them shoulder the blame for that. Besides which, regardless of how many "great attributes" someone has -- and Dora does have her share -- they don't go very far in salvaging a toxic relationship. The end of something that isn't right, whether for one's own sanity or for self-preservation, is far from being a "shitlord."

I'm ... honestly not sure where Marten comes into this. Maybe my post was unclear? I'm sorry if so.
[/quote]

As for where I got a reference to Marten, you mentioned him specifically while suggesting that Dora find a new "class" of people, suggesting that you'd surveyed her current group of friends (not just Faye) and found them wanting. Admittedly, I may have misinterpreted your meaning there.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 11 Mar 2015, 23:00
Why not?

I can either see Faye sitting there in the Apartment with all her gear around her with what she just did sinking in or Dora curled up in bed with Tai sobbing her heart out about what happened.




I dunno, maybe I'm just being a pessimist.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 11 Mar 2015, 23:02
Well, it is the most likely course of action. Or something along those sad lines anyway.

While I'm of the same train of thought, I will still hope for more butt jokes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 11 Mar 2015, 23:34

I sincerely doubt that Tai was prying for the sake of "being a prat." You mean to tell me you've never had a conversation with someone where you knew darn well something was wrong and the person to whom you were speaking wasn't telling you? And had it bother you that they were bothered, not because it had anything to do with you but because you loved or otherwise cared about them?

In all honesty, no, I've never had that sort of conversation with anyone. For most of my life, I've suffered from acute anxiety and confrontation of any type literally makes me ill. I had to take a hiatus from these forums because I got into a spat with someone who actually wasn't trying to be a jerk, but just the incident had me dry-heaving for most of that day. Not making excuses, just stating facts. I have never been and would never be in the situation Tai was in. I think I'm pretty good at reading people, but when people don't want to open up to me or we reach an impasse, I walk away. Tai's behavior is completely foreign to me.

As RF mentions above, neither of them handled it as well as they could've (and I also agree that being shot down when you're trying to help someone or hear them out rather sucks when you're on the receiving end), but I think it's stretching it a bit to say that Tai's poking the bear just for the sake of it.

I didn't mean to imply that Tai went in spoiling for a fight, but Tai seems to me to be the type who doesn't take no for an answer very often or very easily. I think Dora's "DO. NOT. WANT. TO. TALK." signals were very clear, but Tai wilfully (IMO, of course) ignored them, because Tai wanted to talk. That's not OK, in my view. I can accept that she felt upset and helpless that Dora was closing in on herself and not letting her in, but I feel Tai tried to bulldoze her way in and then tried to turn it around on Dora as if her not opening up was some crime.

re I got a reference to Marten, you mentioned him specifically while suggesting that Dora find a new "class" of people, suggesting that you'd surveyed her current group of friends (not just Faye) and found them wanting. Admittedly, I may have misinterpreted your meaning there.

Oh, no, I wasn't really even counting Marten at all! I just feel that because he is just getting things off the ground with Claire, he just hasn't been around CoD that much, plus with Faye not working there, Marten doesn't have too much of a reason to go there that often. I know it's not the same thing, but we barely see Steve there and his girlfriend works there. I was just thinking that Dora really has no "outside friends" (someone else may have made this point as well). She had Faye, Marten, Hanners, Raven, Penny, and later extended that to Marigold and Angus, and even more peripherally, Emily and Claire. Angus and Raven are gone, Marigold doesn't really hang with them anymore, Penny is barely there, I wouldn't consider Cosette or Dale to be friends, etc., etc. To be fair, Faye hasn't been seen with an "outside the group" friend, either, unless you count Sam, but Marten had Jimbo (sorta). Dora doesn't even have that, and she grew up in Northampton. I'd just like to see her get some perspective from some folks outside the little group, as it is likely Faye will get when she joins the support group. Outside friends could aid Dora in her personal growth and development, as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 11 Mar 2015, 23:49
TIL that .horse is a legit top level domain.

I must use this somehow.

Sad Dora makes me sad though.

As for the rest of this thread, I don't even
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ysth on 12 Mar 2015, 00:25
Also, Kale Kale Kale!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Mar 2015, 00:27
I think that I understand what is going on in Faye's head in today's strip. As been suggested, Faye did have a genuine emotional stake in CoD and losing her job there hurt on a personal level. Wanting to make a clean break is understandable.

Whilst it is a good thing that Dora wants to discuss the situation, Faye isn't in the right place, emotionally and, arguably, not physically either. Thoughts and emotions are all messed up by memories of two black days (losing Angus and losing her job) that are inextricably linked to the shop. It would be better to find a neutral location, or at least one where Faye feels more secure, like the apartment before starting a conversion about their future.

That said... I think that Dora is learning that actions can have irreversible consequences. That's going to be a hard pillto swallow and I'm eexpecting some kind of outburst on her part.

Also, Kale Kale Kale!

Yeah; someone (I'm betting Hanners) is trying to make CoD's snack menu healthier!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 12 Mar 2015, 00:45
I'm impressed with Faye here; I don't know what she could have done better in her state of mind. She could have apologised, but it wouldn't have been honest, I think. She just did what she had to do, and it's good that she got her gear immediately - her welding really could help her channel some more unhealthy feelings into something way more productive.

As for the Dora/Faye situation being the same as the Tai/Dora situation: Faye reacted better (well, that's a sentence I just had to type...) by shutting the conversation down politely. 'No hard feelings? Rather not have this conversation right now?' Imagine if Dora had said something similar to Tai! She wouldn't have hurt Tai's feelings with that one.

As to Dora finding new/different friends: Yeah, she should. She has Jim, who's in a very similar situation and more than ten years older, but that would require her to reach out to somebody, and she does have a hard time making close friends. Her brother's self-employed too, but with him she'd rather not talk, even though it might help them both. Hanners with her history of overcoming obstacles and making friends would be a good candidate, because while Hanners may lack some social skills Dora possesses, she's actively working on becoming better. She has a deep understanding of how relationships work because they don't come easy to her, and doesn't have a problem of putting her foot down if she's unfairly treated.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 12 Mar 2015, 00:50
Wonder why Jeph didn't make WWW.QUESTIONABLECONTENT.HORSE (http://WWW.QUESTIONABLECONTENT.HORSE) a clickable link?
Because horses make everything better!

Unless that link gives you a seizure first!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Dark Matter on 12 Mar 2015, 01:23
I'm curious whether the rest of the week will continue to be as focused on Dora's side of things as it has been so far, or if it's going to transition with this strip to focusing on Faye and potentially her going to the support group. I could really see it going either way at this point.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Dark Matter on 12 Mar 2015, 01:25
I just realized how incoherent that sentence was. I really need to go to bed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 01:30
That said... I think that Dora is learning that actions can have irreversible consequences.
Again, "Boss Dora" and "Friend Dora" (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2676) are incompatible, but inseparable, entities. As boss, she did the right thing, but as friend this really hurts. Faye probably realizes this, and does not really blame Dora, but the friendship is over. One might argue that the friendship probably got damaged way back when Dora seduced Marten (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=564), although they remained (mostly) on friendly terms while at work.

Faye's statement, "take one last look at the place", indicates she has no intentions of coming back as a customer. It would hurt too much. Unless Dora breaks down tomorrow, sobbing and begging forgiveness from Faye, I guess this is the last time we see them together.

Tai is now Dora's only significant link to the rest of the cast. The employees at CoD are not really her friends, she is just "Boss Dora" to them. One might wonder if Dora will try to get a new group of friends (Veronica, Jim, Hannermom, possibly even Jimbo?) that are older and have more successful careers, each in their own way. Tai, by comparison, is more childish and unambitious, and would feel uncomfortable around this new group (possible with the exception of Jimbo, whom she adores), leading to a breakup with Dora sometime in the future.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Khazgar on 12 Mar 2015, 01:56
There certainly have been a lot of changes lately, with some more on the horizon. Marten and Claire, Marten's new self-confidence, Faye losing her job and her brush with death, the schism with Dora, Dora's schism with Sven.....

I've been wondering for a long while when (or if) Jeph is going to change the tone of the comic from "a bunch of guys in their early twenties hanging out" to "a bunch of guys in their mid-late twenties trying to find out what to do with their lives". I think that he himself has moved on from the first stage and has done very well for himself (congrats Jeph!)

It seems as if the comic might be moving in that direction now...and of course strip 3000 is approaching. I wonder what will happen next?

And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 12 Mar 2015, 01:59
today was my favourite kind of qc.
everyone is messed up and messing up, there are no childish phrases used by adult characters and most importantly no Claire.
why have they got so much kale?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Mar 2015, 02:12
I've been wondering for a long while when (or if) Jeph is going to change the tone of the comic from "a bunch of guys in their early twenties hanging out" to "a bunch of guys in their mid-late twenties trying to find out what to do with their lives". I think that he himself has moved on from the first stage and has done very well for himself (congrats Jeph!)

If there is an autobiographical aspect to QC (and I believe that there is, at the very least on the subconscious level), then we can expect Marten and others to focus more and more on a settled life and careers and maybe even follow some long-held plans.

What might this mean?
And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?

I'm sure we'll see Claire again at some point. I'm wondering if Tai will make a point of inviting her to the library rave in an attempt to reassure her that they are not 'desecrating' the holy stacks. Or possibly to tweak her nose on the matter. Or possibly both.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: snubnose on 12 Mar 2015, 02:14
And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?
Already ? I'm missing Raven. Imagine how I feel ...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 12 Mar 2015, 02:14
I thought the whole point was to get Claire to desecrate the holy stacks with Marten. RAWR.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Mar 2015, 02:41
I thought the whole point was to get Claire to desecrate the holy stacks with Marten. RAWR.

That incident will not be shown in the strip. All we'll get is clues, like Tai complaining that the CCTV footage for several hours one night had been erased. Momo keeps on saying that she "can't discuss it" and changing the topic. Before she leaves that day, she pockets something Marten gives her and says: "A pleasure doing business with you!" Meanwhile, Claire keeps on blushing and fidgeting as if she's getting a strong associative memory whilst stacking shelves.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 02:48
Sorry, not missing Claire. And I love Claire. There was a lot of Claire recently. As much as has happened since, I'm not at a point where I'm Jonesing for her return. I'm sure we'll see her soon enough.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 02:53
And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?
Already ? I'm missing Raven. Imagine how I feel ...
And Momo, May, Cosette, Steve, Emily, even Clinton...

There are lots of characters that has had very little screen time recently. Claire can fade away for a while. My favorite arc (besides Faye's path to recovery) would be the Emily / Clinton relationship. This is going to be hilarious...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 12 Mar 2015, 02:56
May might actually be my favorite. If I had to pick who was most like me, it'd be May hands down (I'm kind of a dick).

... I also miss the clever swearing. The word Doucheboat is still hilarious.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 12 Mar 2015, 03:01
And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?
Already ? I'm missing Raven. Imagine how I feel ...
And Momo, May, Cosette, Steve, Emily, even Clinton...

There are lots of characters that has had very little screen time recently. Claire can fade away for a while. My favorite arc (besides Faye's path to recovery) would be the Emily / Clinton relationship. This is going to be hilarious...

Nah, not missing Claire either; I mean there' s also Penny and Will, and Sven...

May might actually be my favorite. If I had to pick who was most like me, it'd be May hands down (I'm kind of a dick).

... I also miss the clever swearing. The word Doucheboat is still hilarious.

YES... soo much.. That arc with Dale and May rehabilitated him a lot, I think - one, he gave as good as he got (Not May? How about Dickmouth Stinkfa- MAY IT IS), and two, we saw him for more than the creepy stalker he was with Marigold.

I kinda want May to talk with Pintsize (have those two met already? I don't think so. But they could be soulmates!)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 12 Mar 2015, 03:06
1. Faye took control of the convo and the situation. She's the John Lennon of this Beatles breakup. They're not gonna reconcile until Faye says so.

John Lennon was actually the third member to quit. Ringo quit during the White Album sessions because of how awful the atmosphere was before being talked down. George quit in January 1969 during the Get Back sessions because of how little he was being listened to. John tried to quit later that year and was persuaded not to. Paul actually broke the Beatles up in 1970 by announcing the release of his solo album.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 03:31
Yeah, but Paul wasn't the one with rep for being difficult, so John steals his credit again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Uniquitous on 12 Mar 2015, 03:52
The horse... the horse is... mesmerizing me. Can't look away...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Cpt. Slowloader on 12 Mar 2015, 04:03
Got to look away, dude.  That horse will really mess you up.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 12 Mar 2015, 04:04
This is my horse, my horse is amazing?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 12 Mar 2015, 04:19
Kind of a bittersweet strip. I think it's pretty true to life too, given the circumstances: awkward, not exactly cordial, but civil. It's the first step towards a longer conversation that will hopefully be had when the dust settles.

I agree with the earlier suggestion that this is probably the first time that Dora has had to fire anybody, or at least, somebody that she's become friends with. She knows she made an appropriate call and the right call, but that didn't make it any easier and it wasn't something she enjoyed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Mar 2015, 04:21
Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?
Of all the music they could bring, you want to know about Nirvana?

Yeah, really. I mean, what about that Beatles Reunion Album from 1995?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Mar 2015, 04:38
Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?

Screw that. Can you get a boxed Blu-ray set of The Complete Firefly, seasons 1-8? I've only seen through the end of season 5, and that was a shitty bootleg.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 12 Mar 2015, 04:50
Kind of a bittersweet strip. I think it's pretty true to life too, given the circumstances: awkward, not exactly cordial, but civil. It's the first step towards a longer conversation that will hopefully be had when the dust settles.
Yeah... You can never go home again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 05:16

Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?

Of all the music they could bring, you want to know about Nirvana?

Two traumas from my formative years that I never got over, the death of Kurt Cobain and the death of Aerith

Also, not one 'may the .horse be with you' joke yet? You people are slipping.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 05:32
Also, not one 'may the .horse be with you' joke yet? You people are slipping.
That is the stuff of night mares :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 05:37

And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?

Probably, it has been less than a day in comic time since we've seen her.  I'd have to double check April's timeline but I'm pretty sure we've seen her every day in comic time since Marten had his ONS with D.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 05:50
Claire appeared in just over 1/3 of the 40 strips before her last appearance. It's been 15 since she last showed up, and 4 since the beginning of the day.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 06:13
The .horse TLD actually exists. You can buy a .horse domain for the nice price of $24.99/year:
http://www.join.horse/ (http://www.join.horse/)
Personally, I prefer the .cat TLD:
https://directa.cat/ (https://directa.cat/)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tomveil on 12 Mar 2015, 06:14
Hello!  I've been reading QC for a couple years, and occasionally lurking on the forum for almost as long.  I finally created an account today, just to say
.horse
That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 06:30
@tomveil: Welcome! Even the most unlikely reasons bring out some lurkers :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: hakko504 on 12 Mar 2015, 06:38
And of course Henry the Horse dances the waltz.


Just trotting by to say that I hope we get a comic relief filler tomorrow, this week has been a bit too gloomy for me.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 07:06
Question: The http://www.questionablecontent.horse (http://www.questionablecontent.horse) prank, was this done by Jeph himself? Or did any of you pranksters just grab that domain name?

If it was Jeph, is he planning to move the website to the .horse TLD? If so, he shall be in the company of another talented illustrator: http://cuddle.horse/ (http://cuddle.horse/)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 07:07
I believe he did, and he's also responsible for walmart.horse, which Walmart has sent him a C&D for.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 07:27
I believe he did, and he's also responsible for walmart.horse, which Walmart has sent him a C&D for.
:mrgreen: Note to big evil corporations: Grab all possible TLDs while you can. It may cost you a few thousand dollars per year, but it is worth it.

On a different topic: The .horse T-shirt looks really nice on Faye, much better than the angry T-shirt (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2879) that always seems to get her into trouble.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 12 Mar 2015, 07:51
Alternate corporate plan - stop being so anal about your name.  It's only a word.

Nah, won't happen!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 12 Mar 2015, 08:02
Quote
And on another note - am I the only one who misses Claire?

I do, but I know we need something for her storywise and if we don't have it planned out yet it's best to wait.

Unless she's interacting with the rest of the cast, which is fine.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Wagimawr on 12 Mar 2015, 08:03
Also, not one 'may the .horse be with you' joke yet? You people are slipping.
That is the stuff of night mares :mrgreen:
well it gave me a damn heart attack when I went there so uh kinda?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Mar 2015, 08:20
So, micro-poll for tomorrow. Will we have:
For the record, I vote '1', with Faye ending up in the uncomfortable position of dealing with Dora, who has suddenly broken down during the process of removing her metalworking gear.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: shrike1978 on 12 Mar 2015, 08:31
Question: The http://www.questionablecontent.horse (http://www.questionablecontent.horse) prank, was this done by Jeph himself? Or did any of you pranksters just grab that domain name?

It was definitely Jeph.  Notice where it takes you.  It's a redirect to a page on the main QC website.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Mar 2015, 08:33
I'll go with 3. I don't think Faye's going to do the "wistful look back" thing, because that would essentially mean CoD is DOA.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: NilsO on 12 Mar 2015, 08:34
Agreed, definitely '1'. Jeph cannot let this hang.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 09:10
So, micro-poll for tomorrow. Will we have:
  • Continuation of Dora Arc - Some sort of emotional fall-out from this week?
  • Comedic one-off - Pintsize? Hanners and Mar-bear? You make the call!
  • Step sidways - An indirect conclusion to this week's strips such as Claire calming down Marten or Faye talking to Marten about her current ambivalence towards Dora?
  • Other - Specify in comment
For the record, I vote '1', with Faye ending up in the uncomfortable position of dealing with Dora, who has suddenly broken down during the process of removing her metalworking gear.

since it hasn't been an option in months I'm voting 4: Spathe ham
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 12 Mar 2015, 09:22
I'm hoping for more CoD, but only because I'm hoping that Dora will interrupt Faye's look back with a silent (maybe tearful) hug.

I know it won't happen, but that's what I want, damnit. >:I
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 12 Mar 2015, 09:28
I've been wondering for a long while when (or if) Jeph is going to change the tone of the comic from "a bunch of guys in their early twenties hanging out" to "a bunch of guys in their mid-late twenties trying to find out what to do with their lives". I think that he himself has moved on from the first stage and has done very well for himself (congrats Jeph!)

If there is an autobiographical aspect to QC (and I believe that there is, at the very least on the subconscious level), then we can expect Marten and others to focus more and more on a settled life and careers and maybe even follow some long-held plans.

Even if it weren't autobiographical, I'd still expect to see some kind of change. I'd assume it's hard enough to write the same characters day in and day out for ten years. Harder still if those characters remain frozen in time once you've outgrown them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 12 Mar 2015, 09:56
It's possible that Friday's strip will be an out-of-order Pratchett tribute.  Dora liked him, as Khazgar mentioned on the RIP thread, and Jeph likes to do the occasional tribute comic.  If not, we'll certainly get some kind of background reference, I'm sure.  COD's final blackboard special?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 12 Mar 2015, 10:26
I feel like Faye must want to have a moment with Dora, since she could've asked Hannelore or Marten or both to get her stuff.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 10:34
I doubt Hanners or Marten should be handling welding gear unsupervised.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 12 Mar 2015, 10:48
I doubt Hanners or Marten should be handling welding gear unsupervised.

Not while it's in operation, no, but it wouldn't be during transport.

No, Faye has emotions, and good memories about CoD. She even admitted, she wants to get one last look around. There might not be a whole strip devoted to that aspect of this, but it's something that's going to happen.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 12 Mar 2015, 11:28
I doubt Hanners or Marten should be handling welding gear unsupervised.

Who knows what Hanners would build!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 11:29
I'm not sure what kind of equipment Faye uses. Could be gas (volatiles) or electric (voltage). While it's just kind of assumed by people that those things are safe when not operating (and they are in most applications most people encounter) they aren't safe, on or off.

Faye should know the state of her gear, and whether it needs additional steps to safe it for transport. She knows how to move it without damaging it, and what to watch out for. Whether Hanners or Marten would be in danger trying to move, or be a danger to it, isn't an issue if she gets it herself.

She has no income, so it's not like she's got a well of resources to pay for breakage, and if it is a gas set up she could be liable for endangerment if something happened.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 11:52
If I recall the welding sequences properly, it looked like a MIG or TIG setup (electrical, with a box) versus something like an oxy/acetylene setup (metal cannisters). The former would certainly be a lot easier to move around than the latter.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 12 Mar 2015, 12:01
I thought the whole point was to get Claire to desecrate the holy stacks with Marten. RAWR.

That incident will not be shown in the strip. All we'll get is clues, like Tai complaining that the CCTV footage for several hours one night had been erased. Momo keeps on saying that she "can't discuss it" and changing the topic. Before she leaves that day, she pockets something Marten gives her and says: "A pleasure doing business with you!" Meanwhile, Claire keeps on blushing and fidgeting as if she's getting a strong associative memory whilst stacking shelves.

Of course I didn't mean that it'd be shown. Just that it'd happen.

And to the dude who said he only came here to say .horse tomveil: Welcome aboard! After all, I joined to discuss the musical preferences of a sentient dildo.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 12:37
Faye's (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2173) Equipment (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2172) Faye implies flames (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176).

I know it appears elsewhere, but I don't feel like looking anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 12:41
Then it's very possible she has more than one setup. The first one you linked quite clearly has an electrical-based welding machine (good for materials with a higher threshold for heat), and she has some other gas setup in the second. The first one also clearly has no flame, but more of a spark appearance.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Welu on 12 Mar 2015, 12:43
2173 is interesting in hindsight.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Mar 2015, 12:47
Just a thought - Maybe Jeph has no background in metalwork and just draws what he regards as 'generic welding gear. I could be wrong and he might have carefully researched but I thought that I should include the option.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 12:59
Jeph draws detailed auto interiors (in terms of his style) such that I was able to ID cars to within 2 model years, and April was able to identify Tai's car from what little of the interior was shown.

He renders Northampton accurately enough that natives recognize the streets.

MIG and TIG welding use inert gas to shield the working area from reducing atmosphere, so says the internet. Jeph's rendering of the welder is accurate to that set up. So, from the comic, we can surmise that Faye has what is likely a TIG welder, and a blow torch (which makes sense for metal artist). Which means she probably has sources of pressurized inert (argon) and volatile gasses, and various metal working tools.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 13:01
Actually, I think the fact that he drew two kinds of specific welding gear illustrates that he did do his homework. Having both sets of equipment would make sense from an artistic stance, simply due to different welders working better with different materials.

EDIT: RF summed it up nicely. I'd forgotten about Argon versus oxy/acetylene. And then there's welding in the tiny sense (soldering) which might use acetylene, propane, or butane in the torches.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 13:09
Further reading confirms TIG as a MIG welder would be feeding wire from the gun, rather than a hand held filament for the bead line. So it's definitely an argon tank.

And now I know more about welding than I will ever need.

Ever.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 13:12
I know more about the stuff I've used, but even that isn't as much as I'd like to. I've done oxy/acetylene back in the day in college, but more recently I've been doing soldering with a butane torch and copper or silver. I'm also not very good at it   :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 13:33
Soldering isn't welding - soldering is melting a low-temperature melt alloy to stick two pieces of metal together. Welding is melting two similar metals (and sometimes a rod of the same type of metal) together.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 13:36
The way I do it it's a weld, which isn't the way it's supposed to go, lol. I did say I suck at it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 13:52
There's not enough heat to actually get a weld! Copper's melting point is 1085 C, and I run my soldering iron at 350 C usually. I think the highest it can even go is 500 C!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 13:54
I work with wire, not large pieces of either copper or silver. If I can make copper headpins with it (melting the end to form a ball on the end of a length of wire) I assume I can get it hot enough to weld two pieces of the same wire.

Of course, it's possible that my wire isn't pure copper, and is really an alloy. It's hard to tell sometimes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 14:23
What are you using to solder the wire anyway? (When I'm soldering, I'm working with wires, printed circuit boards, and integrated circuit (or IC socket) pins, FWIW.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 12 Mar 2015, 14:28

Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?
[/quote]

No you lucked out there; in my reality tangent Kurt Cobain ODed while recording In Utero.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 14:47
What are you using to solder the wire anyway? (When I'm soldering, I'm working with wires, printed circuit boards, and integrated circuit (or IC socket) pins, FWIW.)
A little butane mini-torch. I haven't quite gotten the fine art of getting the solder to flow yet.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 15:32
Ahh. Yeah, that can get hot enough to melt copper or aluminum.

Flux is your friend, as it helps solder flow. And, I use one of these, much safer to the work because the temps aren't that high and are controlled: http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW

If you're adding flux, add it first, then heat up the joint, then apply solder to the heated joint (while, at least with an electric iron, still applying heat). Should melt and start flowing pretty quickly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 15:40
When I have more cash, I'll definitely look into that!  :-) I have the flux and solder (at least for the sterling - the solder I have for the copper supposedly doesn't require it). I think part of my problem is that I simply haven't gotten the hang of the process yet. I need to practice more. My sister-in-law has actually invited me to go down to Taxco, Mexico and stay for a month to take some formal courses from the artisans there so I can learn better techniques. I'd love to go, but I don't think I can afford it  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 15:44
Oh, it's jewelry wire, not electrical you're dealing with. There may be different techniques to use there.

It's worth noting, though, that even if your solder has a flux core, more flux can help.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 15:48
I'll definitely try more flux the next time I have my gear out  :-)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 12 Mar 2015, 16:02
Soldering isn't welding - soldering is melting a low-temperature melt alloy to stick two pieces of metal together. Welding is melting two similar metals (and sometimes a rod of the same type of metal) together.

So what would you call it when making the joins in organ pipes?  (For those who don't know, organ pipes are made of an alloy of tin and lead - sound familiar?)

(It's called soldering, in practice.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 12 Mar 2015, 16:06
I'd be the pedantic asshole to call it welding, but given that it's welding pieces of solder together...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Schwungrad on 12 Mar 2015, 16:11
That's like asking whether mixing two types of glue together is called mixing or glueing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: MooskiNet on 12 Mar 2015, 16:24
That's like asking whether mixing two types of glue together is called mixing or glueing.

I love either/or questions for which the answer is 'yes.'  They make me unaccountably happy.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 12 Mar 2015, 16:42
So, micro-poll for tomorrow.
  • Other - Specify in comment

4. -- I want to see Clinton's date with Emily. (Also I think online polls are dumb.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 17:02
That's like asking whether mixing two types of glue together is called mixing or glueing.

I love either/or questions for which the answer is 'yes.'  They make me unaccountably happy.

Is that happiness that cannot be accounted for or happiness whose account cannot be determined?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 12 Mar 2015, 17:08
That's like asking whether mixing two types of glue together is called mixing or glueing.

I love either/or questions for which the answer is 'yes.'  They make me unaccountably happy.

Is that happiness that cannot be accounted for or happiness whose account cannot be determined?

yes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 12 Mar 2015, 18:36
Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?

Screw that. Can you get a boxed Blu-ray set of The Complete Firefly, seasons 1-8? I've only seen through the end of season 5, and that was a shitty bootleg.

Along with the 6 seasons of Dark Angel?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 18:55
Maybe tywren is a multiverse traveler. tywren did you bring any new Nirvana albums across the gap?

Screw that. Can you get a boxed Blu-ray set of The Complete Firefly, seasons 1-8? I've only seen through the end of season 5, and that was a shitty bootleg.

Along with the 6 seasons of Dark Angel?

And seasons 2-5 of My So-Called Life.

Is my age showing again? Oh well either way. This universe has some matrix sequels, star wars prequels and seasons 6 and 7 of Buffy the Vampire slayer to trade.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 12 Mar 2015, 19:37
Comic up.

Yeah.

Sigh.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 12 Mar 2015, 19:37
And there we have it. I hate to say it, but there's really an air of finality there. Not necessarily regarding any of us seeing the shop again, but at least where Faye coming back into the shop is concerned.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 12 Mar 2015, 19:40
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Schwungrad on 12 Mar 2015, 19:41
The shrubbery is inside the window. I somehow always imagined it outside.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 12 Mar 2015, 19:44
That opening panel is cool.  It's a perspective we've never seen before.  But on seeing it I expected the focus of the strip being Dora, contemplating how lonely she feels at the moment being the boss.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Mar 2015, 19:44
I just want a copy of Purple Submarine, and I'll be just fine.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Boxilar on 12 Mar 2015, 19:45
Delurking to say that definitely felt like the end of an era. More than the Dora/Marten break up, or even The Talk, this feels like a seismic shift in where the comic is going. I don't think Faye has any intention of setting foot in CoD again, and if the story follows her and Marten as they move on, we'll probably see less and less of the coffee shop.

Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Been awhile.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 19:49
Sigh indeed. One word, all emotion, a sad goodbye and on the night that GWS is slated to end as well.

This is going to be a feels filled night.

Edit: song

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 12 Mar 2015, 19:53
Delurking to say that definitely felt like the end of an era. More than the Dora/Marten break up, or even The Talk, this feels like a seismic shift in where the comic is going. I don't think Faye has any intention of setting foot in CoD again, and if the story follows her and Marten as they move on, we'll probably see less and less of the coffee shop.

Good thing The Man Himself said that QC wasn't going to end "anytime soon," (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30403.msg1297057.html#msg1297057) or I'd be worried that this was the end, or the first of several endings, Peter Jackson/LOTR-style.  Of course, that was almost two months ago, and Jeph's definition of "anytime soon" might be different than ours, so prepare your pitchforks and get ready to march, just in case.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 12 Mar 2015, 19:54
*Plays the sad song at the ending to the Hulk*
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 12 Mar 2015, 19:57
*Plays the sad song at the ending to the Hulk*

Methinks Gladstone got there before you.

Anyway, what a happy and upbeat end to the week(!)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Mar 2015, 20:03
...Welp.

No more COD.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 12 Mar 2015, 20:16
CoD will return...

In

The Secret of the Shrubbery

Coming Soon
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 12 Mar 2015, 20:19
I'm thrilled that Dora showed once again that she is capable of tact and intelligence and is not the "irrational bitch" that so many people seem to feel she is by respecting Faye's wishes and letting her do her thing. I do think that this will be the last we see of CoD for quite some time and likely Dora's appearances will be more sporadic in favor of the cast of zany characters Faye will inevitably meet at therapy, including her probable new love interest. Ah well. Tropes are tropes for a reason.

I was more relieved than sad at the strip. I wish Faye well in whatever she wishes to do, but now that she is detached from CoD and any Dora line for the forseeable future, I'll be able to skip her storylines in favor of others. I also hope Sven stays gone as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: explicit on 12 Mar 2015, 20:20
Ya, I don't read well apparently.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DrBear on 12 Mar 2015, 20:35
I'm going to hold on to the theory that this week's strips were guest strips done by the guy who does "Funky Winkerbean."
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 12 Mar 2015, 20:54
If everyone's wishes for the removal of their most hated character are granted, the entire strip will look like panel one.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: LilShortstuf on 12 Mar 2015, 21:04
Sigh indeed. One word, all emotion, a sad goodbye and on the night that GWS is slated to end as well.

This is going to be a feels filled night.

Edit: song


I've fallen behind on GWS for many months and just now read this. I am saddened :( The comics I follow need to stop ending. (I realize the selfishness in that sentence and completely believe artists should end comics when they feel the story is over. I'm just being a pouty person)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: tywren on 12 Mar 2015, 21:04
I'm thrilled that Dora showed once again that she is capable of tact and intelligence and is not the "irrational bitch" that so many people seem to feel she is

Dora's a bitch, but not an irrational one. In fact i'd swear she has a master in rationalizing her bitchiness which is one of the things that annoy me about the character; rational bitches tend to hold on to their "I was right to be a bitch" mindset far tighter than irrational ones.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Boxilar on 12 Mar 2015, 21:07
Delurking to say that definitely felt like the end of an era. More than the Dora/Marten break up, or even The Talk, this feels like a seismic shift in where the comic is going. I don't think Faye has any intention of setting foot in CoD again, and if the story follows her and Marten as they move on, we'll probably see less and less of the coffee shop.

Good thing The Man Himself said that QC wasn't going to end "anytime soon," (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30403.msg1297057.html#msg1297057) or I'd be worried that this was the end, or the first of several endings, Peter Jackson/LOTR-style.  Of course, that was almost two months ago, and Jeph's definition of "anytime soon" might be different than ours, so prepare your pitchforks and get ready to march, just in case.

I don't think the pitchforks will be necessary. While Jeph seems to like giving all his characters screen time, the comic has always been about Marten and Faye. Marten's ties to Coffee of Doom have been pretty tenuous since he and Dora split. And Faye just cut all ties.

*deep breath before plunging in*

It's been noted that Marten is a pretty chill dude, and since he and Dora separated and he came to terms with it his chill has reached a Zen level. He and Dora are still friends, and will probably still have contact through Tai, but his main reason for dropping by CoD, before and after his relationship with Dora was that his best friend worked there.

Which brings up Faye. The Pugnacious Peach is about as far from a Zen state as you can get right now. I think she's honest when she tells Dora there's no hard feelings. But Coffee of Doom and Dora are part and parcel of a chain of events where she almost killed herself. Like the car wreck after her dad died, she probably isn't sure herself whether it was intentional or not. Mainly because she simply can't remember. So she has to distance herself and concentrate on getting better, and that means leaving Dora and CoD behind her. It isn't really fair to Dora because she's losing a close friend out of the deal, but then life just sucks sometimes. And while Dora and faye may reconnect down the road at some point, it'll never be the same as it was.

And on that cherry note, I hope we get to see Marten and Faye break out of the holding patterns their lives have been locked in. Marten has a relationship that looks like it has legs, and even if it doesn't, at least he's broken out of orbit and powered up the warp drive. And Faye has been kicked into motion by circumstances that have forced her to change everything about her life. On the up side, she still has Marten, who is pretty damned good at taking care of people he cares about.

I think its going to be interesting.
 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 12 Mar 2015, 21:12
CoD will return...

In

The Secret of the Shrubbery

Coming Soon

Having failed to obtain said shrubbery or cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring, she's been forced to weld new armor for the Knights Who Say "Ni" before she can continue on her quest.

One of whom will be in her support group.

It will not end well for him (I've said it! Oh, I've said it again!).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 12 Mar 2015, 21:31
I don't think the pitchforks will be necessary. While Jeph seems to like giving all his characters screen time, the comic has always been about Marten and Faye. Marten's ties to Coffee of Doom have been pretty tenuous since he and Dora split. And Faye just cut all ties.

[...]

And Faye has been kicked into motion by circumstances that have forced her to change everything about her life. On the up side, she still has Marten, who is pretty damned good at taking care of people he cares about.

I think its going to be interesting.

It's just a weird feeling, is all.  Faye has been working at COD since before the comic started (although she probably hadn't been there long at that point), and having her first get fired and then cut all ties to the place is a major change in the strip, more than anything Marten's been through, I think.  Even if Jeph has plans to continue QC for another 5-10 years (fingers crossed!), the thought that COD won't be the major setting it once was, after nearly 3000 strips, is quite a big deal.  End of an era indeed. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: mazzlebeast on 12 Mar 2015, 21:32
This has been brewing for a while now. Honestly I think Faye has every right to feel hurt. When Faye told Marten why she couldn't date him, Dora swooped in and stole him after two days. Faye let it slide , and when she began drinking heavily Dora wasn't  her shoulder, Marten was. BUT when Marten and Dora split, Faye told Dora she needed help, like a true friend. And she made sure Dora did get help.                                                                              Dora on the other hand has been pulling away from Faye since the split. They hung out together less and less..and when she could have told Faye to get help or else she couldn't  come back, or write her up and give her an ultimatum. .she fired her. Now she feels hurt that Faye doesn't apologize or confide in her or..whatever. Maybe she blames Faye for her breakup with Marten still, even if she knows it is crazy . I don't think Faye is a easy person to get along with, and I don't think drinking on the job is alright.. but it just didn't seem like the right thing to do unless there was some underlying reason.                                  Faye had just broken off things with Angus, her first real boyfriend (Sven was more of a sex buddy) and everyone else around her is in a great relationship.  She was visibly drowning and her best female friend wrote her off.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Mar 2015, 21:47
>"bitch"

(quiet mod)
We like to discourage gender-based insults. They're counter to the goal of being inclusive and risk starting fires that are hard to extinguish.
(/)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 12 Mar 2015, 21:55
{snippage} They hung out together less and less..and when she could have told Faye to get help or else she couldn't  come back, or write her up and give her an ultimatum. .she fired her. Now she feels hurt that Faye doesn't apologize or confide in her or..whatever. Maybe she blames Faye for her breakup with Marten still, even if she knows it is crazy . I don't think Faye is a easy person to get along with, and I don't think drinking on the job is alright.. but it just didn't seem like the right thing to do unless there was some underlying reason.    {further snippage}  She was visibly drowning and her best female friend wrote her off.

Nope, nope, nope.

Look, I've taken issue with some of the things that Dora's said or done, but what you've written here makes me wonder if you've forgotten huge swathes of this comic. Did she write Faye up? No, because it's not that kind of business (Dora runs a pretty loose ship). But she did warn Faye not to drink on the job (there's your ultimatum), and Faye drank on the job anyway (there's your underlying reason). Dora didn't write Faye off. She drew a bright red line, and Faye waltzed right across that fucker.

Oh, and by the way: the first thing they tell you when you're trying to save a drowning person is not to let them drown you. What Dora did was painful for both of them, but it was the right thing in the end.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 12 Mar 2015, 22:01

It's just a weird feeling, is all.  Faye has been working at COD since before the comic started (although she probably hadn't been there long at that point), and having her first get fired and then cut all ties to the place is a major change in the strip, more than anything Marten's been through, I think.  Even if Jeph has plans to continue QC for another 5-10 years (fingers crossed!), the thought that COD won't be the major setting it once was, after nearly 3000 strips, is quite a big deal.  End of an era indeed.

In a lot of ways, I think this is the end of a particularly long digression. At the start of the strip, Marten and Faye's interactions were drawn out a bit until the intro of CoD. I think I would feel differently about it if we were introduced to Faye in a similar way that we were introduced to Angus, that is, taking place within CoD. If Marten and Steve had walked into CoD in strip one instead of being at the bar, and Marten saw the cute brunette in glasses, then I'd feel more like this was the end of an era. As it was, we jumped in, in media res as far as CoD was concerned.

It reminds me of some ways of the start and end of The Sopranos (with notable exceptions, of course). We don't get Tony Soprano backstory going from his childhood on in episode one. We start at what is going to be the most profound plot point of the series, and that is a mob boss seeking therapy. We start QC with what will prove to be the most profound plot point of the series, and that is Marten and Faye meeting. Everything else is situational. The situation with Faye and CoD is at an end. I figured that once that happened, it would signal a shift in the comic to other pastures that the two main characters are exploring. For Marten that is Claire and for Faye it will be sobriety. I would not be surprised if a new "gang" springs up as they've shed the old one at CoD (with Hanners excepted because ... Hanners, and probably Cosette excepted as long as Marten is nominally friends with Steve.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 12 Mar 2015, 22:16
As long as QC doesn't end like The Sopranos, too.

Just as Claire is setting up her greatest pun yet.

Or just a butt joke.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 12 Mar 2015, 22:20
I was having a kind of blah day until I saw Faye's heavy sigh.

I think I'll go pop some popcorn.

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to consider not posting at all and instead going and doing something productive. 
Hmmm...nah.  Nothing else productive to do.  Proceeding.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 12 Mar 2015, 23:38
This is the best thing that could possibly have happened to Faye.

Fear of change has limited and damaged Faye's life. Now, change has been involuntarily been visited upon her.

Maybe now her life can move forward.

And maybe one day in the future, Faye will recognise the enormous favour Dora has done her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Mar 2015, 23:44
As Dora herself hinted, when she asked Faye something to the effect "Do you want to work retail forever?".
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SJCrew on 12 Mar 2015, 23:47
Quote
Huggin' It Out
I SMELL A T-SHIRT

...a really good-smelling t-shirt that I would buy!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 12 Mar 2015, 23:54
As Dora herself hinted, when she asked Faye something to the effect "Do you want to work retail forever?".

Some people have no choice. Monarchy is a really hard gig to break into.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jmucchiello on 13 Mar 2015, 00:16
That feels like a goodbye to the place for the readers as much as for Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2015, 00:29
Yeah, I get the feeling that Faye won't be coming this way again for a very long time, if ever. I also don't think that her friendship with Dora will recover unless Dora is strongly proactive and soon. Faye has clearly decided that she needs to make something of a complete new start and the places (and many of the people) of the past won't be part of this. No matter how painful, she's decided to move on.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that Jeph is saying farewell to the place too.

Sometimes change comes, although it is bitter.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Reaver on 13 Mar 2015, 00:52
Did someone just say "The only way they'd be friends is if Dora broke into tears sobbing begging/FAYE/ for forgiveness"

What?  :psyduck:

"Oh Oh great and PURE Faye! I am so sorry I fired you for coming to work where you are an assistant manager, and in charge of dealing with customers  DRUNK After you both lied to me about being drunk then snuck in the back to avoid working to drink more! PLEASE forgive me for my crimes!  :cry:"


I have only one thing to say to that...



 :grumpypuss:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Tova on 13 Mar 2015, 00:57
Did someone just say "The only way they'd be friends is if Dora broke into tears sobbing begging/FAYE/ for forgiveness"

Um, no, I don't think so...?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Reaver on 13 Mar 2015, 01:02

Faye's statement, "take one last look at the place", indicates she has no intentions of coming back as a customer. It would hurt too much. Unless Dora breaks down tomorrow, sobbing and begging forgiveness from Faye, I guess this is the last time we see them together.


They did, I went back and double checked
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Wagimawr on 13 Mar 2015, 01:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d4C1ZQKmw4
Love it but the mood was ruined when I saw the most recent comment on the video:
"This is the song you play when your taking a shower and find out there is no towel in the bathroom"

 :mrgreen:


(well uh I tried to not repeat the embed buuuuut.)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Mordhaus on 13 Mar 2015, 02:04
(http://i.imgur.com/cV1TWga.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 13 Mar 2015, 04:05
One could argue that Dora could/should apologise for her tone or the manner in which she fired Faye, which she could have done more gently. However, she was rightly angry, and Faye has far more to apologise for, having broken the rules, and in doing so, Dora's trust.

Dora's issues are well-documented, and Faye's going through a rough time. However, it's time for people to stand up to Faye, to call her on her BS, and for her to take responsibility for her actions and the way she treats people. For a long time, everyone's had to tip-toe around her, being careful to never say the wrong thing and upset her, while she gets away with being abrasive and treating people however she pleases. She's the one who messed up; even if it's a symptom of problems that we can sympathise with, she brought the situation upon herself. She really should be the first one to say sorry.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2015, 04:17
I don't think that Dora needs to apologise for anything. I actually don't think Faye is looking for an apology. What I'm saying is that Faye is in a place, mentally and emotionally, where she might be contemplating completely cutting her ties with her CoD circle because she wants to move on and sees it as part of the unhealthy past that led her to her hospitalisation. Whether or not this is justified, reasonable or even rational, it's quite possible that this is what is going through her mind.

If Dora wants to maintain her links with Faye, she is going to have to be proactive. She is going to have to visit her, reach out to her and make it clear that she still wants them to be friends. Otherwise, Faye will just drift away.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 13 Mar 2015, 05:12
True, but then, friendship is a two way street. It depends on whether Faye still wants to be her friend, and to that end, she needs to make some effort as well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Mar 2015, 05:23
Faye cutting her ties and going somewhere else after a near fatal accident and possible suicide attempt is also something that she has done before. That's how she wound up in Northampton after all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Akima on 13 Mar 2015, 05:24
I'm not sure what kind of equipment Faye uses. Could be gas (volatiles) or electric (voltage).
It looks like both. The box underneath looks like an electric rig, but that's plainly a gas-bottle on top. And then there are welding techniques that do use electric-arc and gas together; TIG for example.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 13 Mar 2015, 05:28
MIG also uses shield gases, so...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 13 Mar 2015, 05:58
I'm not a huge fan of the "sigh" bubble, just as I don't really like the "huggin' it out" or "relationship status: optimistic" things. Otherwise, though, I really like this comic. I like the perspective in the first panel, I like the storytelling from Faye's perspective (especially because it implies that Dora was either tactful or miserable enough to leave the scene), I like the last shot of Faye leaving because it's so sad, and yet full of optimistic possibility at the same time.

I see different methods from Jeph now, ever since the Faye-hospital-POV strip. The comic just feels different. To be honest, up until two days ago I felt it was getting a bit stilted, but now I'm back to loving the story-telling and the artwork in general, I just don't like the "captions" part of it. I feel like if Jeph had drawn that "sigh" panel slightly differently, we wouldn't need the caption. That being said, I'm no-one to talk because I can't even draw a stick-figure properly, and QC is the only webcomic I check every day.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 06:33
I agree, that the captioning was pretty unnecessary. Honestly, it feels like he's taking a lot of stylistic cues from manga lately. There's an obscene amount of captioning present in a lot of those. The sigh bubble is also extremely common. I'm just waiting for the angry X to start popping up on people's foreheads when they get pissed off.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 13 Mar 2015, 06:44
I haven't read any manga, but I'm happy to know I'm not alone in my dislike of the captioning. Is the angry X in manga a stylised frown, or has it become more of a shortcut to show that a character is angry? Or both? (Edited because managa isn't a thing).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 06:46
Righthand side of the head. It's pretty much shorthand for the character being angry - thus how you can tell that even though a character may be smiling, they're covering up seething rage simmering just beneath the surface.

(http://www.wall321.com/thumbnails/detail/20120322/brunettes%20angry%20anime%20anime%20boys%20ao%20no%20exorcist%20rin%20okumura%201500x840%20wallpaper_www.wallpaperto.com_100.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 13 Mar 2015, 06:57
Jeph's been taking cues from anime/manga art styles for a very long time, though...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Radium_Coyote on 13 Mar 2015, 06:58
I think Neko has it.  Faye HAS done this before.  "Screw you guys, I'm leaving."  And here she is now, adrift with no anchor, no boyfriend, no husband, no dogs, no cats, no robots...  truly ready to go anywhere in the world.

That is a very lonely place to be, and few of us stay in it willingly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 13 Mar 2015, 07:07
Omega Entity, thank you, bur colour me stupid - I can't see the angry X, I just see an angry/determined character. Should I start reading manga? (I'm open to it depending on how expensive it is.)

ETA: Oh good grief I just saw what you're referring to - the red cross on the hair - so in Manga that's a symbol for anger?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 07:10
Jeph's been taking cues from anime/manga art styles for a very long time, though...

Yes, but it seems to be becoming more and more obvious, as time goes on.

Omega Entity, thank you, bur colour me stupid - I can't see the angry X, I just see an angry/determined character. Should I start reading manga? (I'm open to it depending on how expensive it is.)

It's that red mark on the right side of the image (in the hair), above his eye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Mar 2015, 07:14
She isn't completely cutting everyone out though, so maybe she's learning. She's still staying with Marten, and friends with Hanners. And to be honest, she didn't have much of anyone else. Dale and Marigold she knows, but I wouldn't say she's friends with. She hung out with them at work, and because of Angus, respectively. They're certainly not close friends. She had more of an adversarial relationship with the rest CoD staff. Claire, Tai and Emily are really Marten's friends from work. She just never had that big of a social circle.. Marten and Dora has pretty much been it for most of the comic. Realistically I could see her maybe moving on and trying to start over somewhere else again. And probably continue to make the same mistakes she made in Northampton. For comic purposes I doubt she'll do that though. And it would be better for her in the long run. She is going to go to the support group, so that's an actual start to healing. If she can get a job that she can't just coast through and be snarky to people all day that would be an improvement. So would going back to her doctor. I could see her sliding back into her old ways, quite easily, but that doesn't seem the direction Jeph is taking the story right now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 13 Mar 2015, 07:16
Omega Entity, see my reply about two above with the edit, I was being ridiculously unobservant. Sorry, I posted the edit before I saw your explanation.

ETA Again: I did see the red cross, and have since realised I was being a bit rude expecting you to scroll through replies. Sorry about that, and should I start reading manga, or will it suck me into a terrible hole?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 07:25
No worries. I'm terrible about edits. I always think of something after I've hit post, and then find myself scrabbling to edit before anyone sees the post, lol.

Edit: And Omega is fine for me. Or Dani. Take your pick :-p
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Radium_Coyote on 13 Mar 2015, 07:29
I dunno.  I doubt Faye's gonna benefit from a "support group" any more than I did.  The principle proposition, upon which everything else hinges, is that you give a rat's fart about the opinions of a bunch of strangers who don't know you and don't understand your problems.  That did not make it past one night, with me.  But court orders are court orders.

I'm a bigger man than to call those fools complicit in my torture, but I certainly did not GAIN anything from the experience.  And Faye seems very much in the same headspace I was, upon a time.  She doesn't need a support group. She needs a mentor.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 13 Mar 2015, 07:48
The fact that it is a no-creeps support group (ain't fiction grand?) might make it actually worthwhile.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Mar 2015, 07:53
If you go into a group with a negative opinion, then all you are going to get out of it is a negative experience. The whole idea of a support group is that you are surrounded by people who do in fact understand your problem. Because they have been through the same sort of things. Being forced into these sorts of things by court orders rarely works though, because the first thing you need is to want to be there.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 13 Mar 2015, 07:58
No worries. I'm terrible about edits. I always think of something after I've hit post, and then find myself scrabbling to edit before anyone sees the post, lol.

Edit: And Omega is fine for me. Or Dani. Take your pick :-p

I think I missed something here, possibly a reference to Alpha - Omega. I always feel I'm punching above my weight on this forum, hence my reluctance to post. Wait, do you mean it's ok to call you Dani? I identify as a geek, wish I was brainy enough to be a nerd, and thought I'd left my dork days behind me. ETA: Oh I am the most awkward being to ever exist. I swear I'm an actually quite normal person, and my husband is telling me right now that I should stop leaving awkward comments all over the place.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 13 Mar 2015, 08:29
I think I missed something here, possibly a reference to Alpha - Omega. I always feel I'm punching above my weight on this forum, hence my reluctance to post. Wait, do you mean it's ok to call you Dani? I identify as a geek, wish I was brainy enough to be a nerd, and thought I'd left my dork days behind me. ETA: Oh I am the most awkward being to ever exist. I swear I'm an actually quite normal person, and my husband is telling me right now that I should stop leaving awkward comments all over the place.

*pats SeaWood on the shoulder* There there, no need to be reluctant. Someone probably already melted your lug-wrench so here, take a welcome to the asylum tiara, sit down, relax and some people will be along shortly to chant 'one of us.'
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 08:34
No worries. I'm terrible about edits. I always think of something after I've hit post, and then find myself scrabbling to edit before anyone sees the post, lol.

Edit: And Omega is fine for me. Or Dani. Take your pick :-p

I think I missed something here, possibly a reference to Alpha - Omega. I always feel I'm punching above my weight on this forum, hence my reluctance to post. Wait, do you mean it's ok to call you Dani? I identify as a geek, wish I was brainy enough to be a nerd, and thought I'd left my dork days behind me. ETA: Oh I am the most awkward being to ever exist. I swear I'm an actually quite normal person, and my husband is telling me right now that I should stop leaving awkward comments all over the place.

I mean, it's fine to call me either. My full handle is more of a pain in the ass to type. And no worries on the awkwardness! I'm the epitome of awkwardness, both here and IRL. I returned here after a 2ish-year hiatus, and I'm sure everyone's ready for me to go climb back into the hole from whence I came because of my dumbass posts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2015, 08:45
Just wanted to add that my call for next week is Faye at the support group, possibly mixed with some fall-out - maybe Dora visiting Marten to pour our her heart to him or something similar. Jeph wouldn't have posted such an emotionally striking strip as he had today if he didn't want there to be fall-out amongst the characters.

Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: dexeron on 13 Mar 2015, 08:53
Is it completely inappropriate that I want this to be the song playing in the background as Faye walks out of Coffee of Doom?

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 13 Mar 2015, 08:56
Just wanted to add that my call for next week is Faye at the support group, possibly mixed with some fall-out - maybe Dora visiting Marten to pour our her heart to him or something similar. Jeph wouldn't have posted such an emotionally striking strip as he had today if he didn't want there to be fall-out amongst the characters.

I think that's a good call. I'm not so sure it'll be Marten that Dora opens up to, seeing as just Wednesday, she was promising to Tai she'd talk more, but it seems likely it's going to happen. Support group's the more immediate arc, though, I think
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 13 Mar 2015, 08:57
I'm sure everyone's ready for me to go climb back into the hole from whence I came because of my dumbass posts.

I like your posts, let's be friends. Do you wanna build a snowman?
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 09:03
I'm sure everyone's ready for me to go climb back into the hole from whence I came because of my dumbass posts.

I like your posts, let's be friends. Do you wanna build a snowman?

Go away, Anna  :grumpypuss:

Seriously, though. The snow's melting :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: valkygrrl on 13 Mar 2015, 09:07
Okay bye.  :-(
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 09:13
Aw, now I feel bad   :psyduck:

I was joking, just to clarify   :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 13 Mar 2015, 09:14
Oi, with all the Frozen references? Come on, already, that movie came out like a year and a half ago! Let it go!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: eschaton on 13 Mar 2015, 09:16
I think Neko has it.  Faye HAS done this before.  "Screw you guys, I'm leaving."  And here she is now, adrift with no anchor, no boyfriend, no husband, no dogs, no cats, no robots...  truly ready to go anywhere in the world.

She has Marten, and that's enough.

I've been rereading the strip again from the beginning for like the third time.  While it's nothing romantic any longer, the love between Marten and Faye remains the core of the comic.  It's a bond deeper than any of the couples actively boning in the strip.  They trust one another, and accept each other for what they are - even though they both of course want to see the other overcome their issues. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2015, 09:34
Okay, at last I get it! I know why Veronica thought that Claire was 'Clarice'!

http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/cast.php

Second row, first column - Clarice - Domme librarian (Clearly an ex-colleague with a coincidental similarity of appearance to Claire :wink: )

Jeph was even a fan of GWS so it makes sense that he'd want to slip in an Easter Egg or two!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Mar 2015, 09:52
And now GWS has ended.

Anyway, I'm looking at today's comic and all I can hear is Pearl Jam's Off He Goes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: dilbert719 on 13 Mar 2015, 10:12
And now GWS has ended.

Anyway, I'm looking at today's comic and all I can hear is Pearl Jam's Off He Goes.

What I got at the end of that was the ending theme from the Incredible Hulk TV show.

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 13 Mar 2015, 10:42
And now GWS has ended.

Anyway, I'm looking at today's comic and all I can hear is Pearl Jam's Off He Goes.

What I got at the end of that was the ending theme from the Incredible Hulk TV show.


Oh, come on, dude, that's been posted twice already since today's comic went up. I feel like you're just messing with my head.

Edit: mentioned once, posted once in unrelated instances by different people
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 13 Mar 2015, 11:03
Did someone just say "The only way they'd be friends is if Dora broke into tears sobbing begging/FAYE/ for forgiveness"

What?  :psyduck:

"Oh Oh great and PURE Faye! I am so sorry I fired you for coming to work where you are an assistant manager, and in charge of dealing with customers  DRUNK After you both lied to me about being drunk then snuck in the back to avoid working to drink more! PLEASE forgive me for my crimes!  :cry:"


I have only one thing to say to that...



 :grumpypuss:

Somehow I don't think that was the intended meaning.  Think before you snark.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: dilbert719 on 13 Mar 2015, 11:28
Oh, come on, dude, that's been posted twice already since today's comic went up. I feel like you're just messing with my head.

Edit: mentioned once, posted once in unrelated instances by different people

Less "messing with your head, " more "only read the last page, because I didn't have time to go back and see if anyone else posted it." Either way, my bad.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: raoullefere on 13 Mar 2015, 12:12
My, Friday's strip seems kind of… final.

I'm sure it's not The End, but comics have ended before on shots like those. Okay, maybe not of an ass like Faye's, but, well, you get the picture.

I just hope no-one is, you know, licking panel 4, or something…

Especially 'or something.'

(Hey, I could've posted the closing segment of The Incredible Hulk again. Daaa dA da daaaaa… )

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 13 Mar 2015, 12:22
Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?

no, benrg, bloody hell no. three nights and four days? how long would that take in the comic? i'd have to take a break from reading, there is no way I could stand that much claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 13 Mar 2015, 12:32

(Hey, I could've posted the closing segment of The Incredible Hulk again. Daaa dA da daaaaa… )

At this point, I'd have just laughed my ass off. I can appreciate a good bit when I know it's a bit
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2015, 12:35
Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?

no, benrg, bloody hell no. three nights and four days? how long would that take in the comic? i'd have to take a break from reading, there is no way I could stand that much claire.

You know, your near-hysterical dislike of Claire, initially funny in a sad way, is just becoming tiresome.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 13 Mar 2015, 13:02
Joking about shrubbery aside, I really don't see CoD vanishing from the strip. Or Dora.

CoD was a home to Faye. So that one thing the symbolic non-symbolic strip is conveying. CoD was where Marten went to find his two best friends. That over now, but I really doubt Marten's going to stop going there, all other things considered.

In universe, however, it's no longer his social hub. Out of universe, from a writing perspective, it is no longer the easy way for Jeph to connect the three most major characters in the strip. It seems likely that this is the end of CoD's central place in the comic. But it's still the place where Marten's threads bunch most thickly, so I expect we'll be dropping in again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cabbagehut on 13 Mar 2015, 13:22
On the topic of apologies, one can apologize without actually having done anything "wrong" or "bad".  In those cases, it's an, "I'm sorry that my actions hurt you," sort of thing that can smooth over hurt feelings.  Like, if your phone dies and you miss a text message from a friend, you might say something like, "I'm sorry that I missed your message," to acknowledge that the person might have been upset that it seemed that you were ignoring them or that they were inconvenienced.  I do this often.  It's not because I think I've screwed up so badly that everyone hates me or anything, but because acknowledging other people's feelings (even if I'm justified) helps keep friendships together and helps us see each other's points of view.

I think that's more of the apology style that might smooth things over between Faye and Dora.  Whether or not that's a meaningful thing to either of them, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Mar 2015, 13:25
Alternatively to CoD fading into the background, it could remain a focus at times with the return of some loved but missed characters - Raven in particular, but also Penny and the near-mythical Sara.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 13 Mar 2015, 13:36
You know, your near-hysterical dislike of Claire, initially funny in a sad way, is just becoming tiresome.

Claire's almost as bad as puppies and warm sunny days!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Mar 2015, 13:39
puppies and warm sunny days!

And I have not had enough of either of those things lately.

But spring is coming. Brace yourselves.  :wow:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Mar 2015, 13:41
Welcome, new person!

Happy milestone, 1000-post persons!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 13 Mar 2015, 13:45
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 13 Mar 2015, 13:47
On the topic of apologies, one can apologize without actually having done anything "wrong" or "bad".  In those cases, it's an, "I'm sorry that my actions hurt you," sort of thing that can smooth over hurt feelings.  Like, if your phone dies and you miss a text message from a friend, you might say something like, "I'm sorry that I missed your message," to acknowledge that the person might have been upset that it seemed that you were ignoring them or that they were inconvenienced.  I do this often.  It's not because I think I've screwed up so badly that everyone hates me or anything, but because acknowledging other people's feelings (even if I'm justified) helps keep friendships together and helps us see each other's points of view.

I think that's more of the apology style that might smooth things over between Faye and Dora.  Whether or not that's a meaningful thing to either of them, I'm not sure.

I think it would be meaningful to Dora, but not necessarily to Faye. I think your premise is more or less what Dora was thinking when she sought Marten out after her date with Jim. She was not sorry for ending the relationship, but she was sorry that her actions had hurt him and made him feel ostracized from the CoD group. The thing is, Marten has a personality that is receptive to that, coupled with his own in-comic expressed relief (to Veronica) that his relationship with Dora was over. He was happy to accept Dora's olive branch because they had been friends before they got together, he liked CoD, Faye was there, and he didn't necessarily want Dora and himself to go through life hating each other much like with the girlfriend he moved from California to Northampton to be with.

Faye is much different. Whether she just has an "average" life making widgets somewhere, getting old, possibly marrying someone and having a family or becomes the Annie Leibowitz of the metal sculpting word, part of her (and this is definitely just an opinion here) will always resent Dora for taking this step. When Dora told Tai that her continued friendship with Faye was "up to her," that was Dora displaying a sort of insight I don't think she gets much credit for. Because of Faye's background, she is very quick to read situations as people abandoning her or being disloyal. I suspect the meltdown of the Angus relationship was not necessarily because he got the job but because he went for it in the first place. Yes, she encouraged him, but I really feel that deep down, Faye resented that Angus would take any step that may lead to her being out of her comfort zone, even if it proves to work in her favor down the road. I think we are seeing this with her feelings toward Dora. Faye might privately, or even to Marten and/or Hannelore, some time down the road express that getting canned from CoD was the best thing to happen to her, but I don't think she will ever completely forgive Dora just as Dora couldn't completely quiet her suspicions that Marten wasn't over Faye.

I do think that the Faye/Dora friendship is moribund. They may say hello and even hang out every now and again at selected events (possibly at Claire and Marten's engagement party or Steve and Cossette's, whichever comes first), but I think just as the last Angus strip, which also ended with Faye being in an empty CoD, indicated the severing forever of that relationship, we have seen the end of Faye and Dora as buddies.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 13 Mar 2015, 13:53
I think Neko has it.  Faye HAS done this before.  "Screw you guys, I'm leaving."  And here she is now, adrift with no anchor, no boyfriend, no husband, no dogs, no cats, no robots...  truly ready to go anywhere in the world.

And let's hope she gets to it and toddles her happy butt off into the Misery Sunset.

I need some more popcorn.  I love happy endings.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 13 Mar 2015, 13:59
Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?

no, benrg, bloody hell no. three nights and four days? how long would that take in the comic? i'd have to take a break from reading, there is no way I could stand that much claire.



You know, your near-hysterical dislike of Claire, initially funny in a sad way, is just becoming tiresome.

that's a terrible shame for you. i'm sure you can point to examples of and explain why you characterise my perfectly acceptable dislike of claire as near-hysterical. hyperbole perhaps? something to do with post count? I really don't know why someone would do that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 13 Mar 2015, 14:08
*double checks your posts*

I mean, one out of five of your posts specifically mentions you disliking Claire. More than that if you only look at what you post in the QC section.

You literally made a post to the effect of 'today's comic was meh, but woohoo, no Claire!'

It's probably more to do with the lack of other opinions you've given than it is about you in other ways. There's only so many times you can say your opinion before we get tired of hearing it. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Mar 2015, 14:30
(mod)Please talk about the comic and not each other. (/mod)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DillyDolly on 13 Mar 2015, 14:58
This be a perfect spot for a time-jump. I'll be surprised if there was one, but it'd work so well.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 13 Mar 2015, 15:38
This be a perfect spot for a time-jump. I'll be surprised if there was one, but it'd work so well.

It was two years since the robot revolution. Everyone Marten loved was either killed or turned into mindless cyborg slaves. But he would survive no matter what. Survive and have his vengeance.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 13 Mar 2015, 15:49
This be a perfect spot for a time-jump. I'll be surprised if there was one, but it'd work so well.

It was two years since the robot revolution. Everyone Marten loved was either killed or turned into mindless cyborg slaves. But he would survive no matter what. Survive and have his vengeance.
*another time skip*
It's been four years since Marten had his final revenge against the robot rulers of Earth, and society was finally calming down and settling into a preindustrial state. A small contingent of humans kept technology alive in orbit, but the remainder went about agrarian lives. Penelope, now living under a pseudonym, becomes the ruler of this society through her use of technology, until a weird blue boy and floating girl show up...
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Mar 2015, 15:56
SPOILER: The weird blue boy is actually Pintsize in a new chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 13 Mar 2015, 16:19
Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?

no, benrg, bloody hell no. three nights and four days? how long would that take in the comic? i'd have to take a break from reading, there is no way I could stand that much claire.

I like Claire (and Marten), but there's no way I could deal with that large a dosage of sweetness. My teeth are rotting just thinking about it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 13 Mar 2015, 16:24
Just wanted to add that my call for next week is Faye at the support group, possibly mixed with some fall-out - maybe Dora visiting Marten to pour our her heart to him or something similar. Jeph wouldn't have posted such an emotionally striking strip as he had today if he didn't want there to be fall-out amongst the characters.

Wait, so you're not calling for a time-jump?  But aren't you always calling for a time-jump?  What's going on?  You disappoint me, sir!  :-)

This be a perfect spot for a time-jump. I'll be surprised if there was one, but it'd work so well.

Aha, there it is.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today.  Honestly, this comic does feel like a bit of An Ending, and it wouldn't hurt if Monday's strip opened up several weeks later, with Faye attending her third or fourth group session, filling in the other attendees on what progress (or lack thereof) she's been making lately, especially on the art and job fronts.  It would save the whole dull getting-to-know-you bit we would otherwise see from her first group session--and really, why would we need to see that, when we already know what Faye has gone through?  A time-jump would advance the story a heck of a lot better.  Or not.  Just a thought.

(And it'll get us past the look-how-cute-they-are stage of Marten and Claire's relationship.  Everyone's a winner!)

Future Plot I'd Like to See
It's a long weekend and Marten invites Claire to stay over for those three nights and four days. Will Faye be able to handle it? Will Pintsize be able to handle it?

I still think at some point Pintsize should confront Claire over whatever secret Marten's keeping from him ("Is it donkey porn?  Were you in donkey porn?  AM I GOING TO HAVE TO DELETE THESE FILES?!"), then, on finding out the truth, end up getting pissed at Marten for not trusting him to have certain boundaries about what he mocks people for.  Because I still think Pintsize knows what he can and can't dish out, and doesn't need Marten to tell him that Claire's trans status is off-limits--and I think Claire can hold her own, anyway.  It would be fun to see them actually interacting without the threat of Marten looming over the picture. 

Or, y'know, Pintsize can just stay in the background and never develop further as a character.  It's all good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Mar 2015, 16:26
I don't think this is the beginning of the end for the comic, but we have gotten past the end of the beginning.
Here's the thing, Coffee of Doom will always have a place in the lives of most of the cast. It's a definite part of the social circle, even if some people are no longer a part of it. Hanners is someone who could be considered a top tier cast member and it is still her place of employment. Marten is still employed at SMIF library along with Tai and CoD is within walking distance.

Really, the only way Coffee of Doom would disappear would be if it burned down to the ground and Dora deciding she should try her luck in Patagonia.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 13 Mar 2015, 17:17
SPOILER: The weird blue boy is actually Pintsize in a new chassis.

Would explain the fixation with tails.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 13 Mar 2015, 17:38
Is it completely inappropriate that I want this to be the song playing in the background as Faye walks out of Coffee of Doom?


Good idea but may I please suggest this version? It's the only way I hear the song anymore...

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 13 Mar 2015, 17:47

I like that one for this feeling too. I'm also reminded of the best moment of Lynyrd Skynyrd of all bands...

Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Mar 2015, 19:55
Really, the only way Coffee of Doom would disappear would be if it burned down to the ground and Dora deciding she should try her luck in Patagonia.

What if Faye's old toaster is still in town and tries to avenge her by breaking into CoD and doing what it did to her apartment? "The stupid toaster was just out to get me", she said. It might try to make it up to her in exactly the wrong way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 13 Mar 2015, 20:06
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8608/16782033216_46416bab9a_m.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 13 Mar 2015, 22:07
I haven't read any manga, but I'm happy to know I'm not alone in my dislike of the captioning. Is the angry X in manga a stylised frown, or has it become more of a shortcut to show that a character is angry? Or both? (Edited because managa isn't a thing).

It was originally meant to be a vein popping out --- but now it has become a symbol that can appear anywhere. (On hair, the metal skin of a robot...)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: anahata on 14 Mar 2015, 00:35
CoD :
End of an era for Faye, but I don't think it's the end of CoD in the comic. Dora and Hanners are both major cast members, and I suspect that when Faye finds a new life, whether it's getting a job or  starting a welding/sculpture career, gets some help from the group or her therapist, and finally has that conversation with Dora-the-friend, even she will return to CoD to hang out with her friends and make sarcastic remarks.

And quite unrelated:
Omega Entity: please stay, and keep posting!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 14 Mar 2015, 04:48
People are really reading a LOT into this. COD is the main location of the comic and features numerous main and background characters there. I think the significance of this comic is entirely Faye leaving it, nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Satan on 14 Mar 2015, 06:04
MOOD FO EEFFOC  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Mar 2015, 10:15
What if Faye's old toaster is still in town and tries to avenge her by breaking into CoD and doing what it did to her apartment? "The stupid toaster was just out to get me", she said. It might try to make it up to her in exactly the wrong way.

It would go down like this:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: osaka on 14 Mar 2015, 13:04
PLOT TWIST: May is Faye's old toaster.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 14 Mar 2015, 14:45
PLOT TWIST TWIST: May is Faye's new toaster.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Mar 2015, 18:50
Is it completely inappropriate that I want this to be the song playing in the background as Faye walks out of Coffee of Doom?


Wrong webcomic. (http://wapsisquare.com)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 14 Mar 2015, 19:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egY8rUpxqcE
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 14 Mar 2015, 20:39
I would think that Faye isn't going to permanently give up her metalwork, so... where's she going to do it in the future? My money is on the Deathmole practice space.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 14 Mar 2015, 20:45
I would think that Faye isn't going to permanently give up her metalwork, so... where's she going to do it in the future? My money is on the Deathmole practice space.

I think that's likely. I could see Amir getting really excited about that, too, asking her to make stuff for live performances
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 14 Mar 2015, 20:58
Eh, I'm not so sure. Unless it's a large space with a concrete floor, it'd be a fire hazard.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 14 Mar 2015, 21:00
Isn't it canonically a warehouse? Wouldn't that fit those requirements? At the very least, it would fit better than the basement of a random coffeehouse, I should think
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 14 Mar 2015, 21:05
Is it a warehouse? I thought it was just an unfinished space in a building somewhere. As for the basement of CoD, it'd still be a concrete floor, and the space would be sufficient judging by how big the shop is. The sparks generated from the torch generally fall more down than out.

I could totally be wrong, though.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Energia on 14 Mar 2015, 21:17
I presume the perspective in Friday's cartoon was from the counter looking out to the street.  To me I suddenly saw CoD like a branch of Subway where people queue for takeaway, with only a couple of uncomfortable places to sit.  My opinion of Dora's ability to run her business while keeping in with her friends is boosted by this comic.  I'd always pictured the place as the café in Friends, or like one of the old bookshops with sofas and coffee.  Looking back though this is my own mistake, Jeph never shows the cast huddled over a mug, taking up floor space, putting the world to rights. Dora manages to keep people including her friends coming in to pay proper money to carry away paper containers of hot brown water and sugary bread. I like her more and more (especially as she gave free basement space to Faye AND spiders!)
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 14 Mar 2015, 21:20
Faye welds in the library basement. Drama unfolds between her and Claire when she accidentally burns down the place.

Incidentally, Tai escapes the fire just in the nick of time, not having noticed the fire immediately because she's used to being surrounded by smoke.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Mar 2015, 02:50
I presume the perspective in Friday's cartoon was from the counter looking out to the street.

Er, the counter's right there in the picture on the right (as drawn).  There's a crude layout map in the wiki:

(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/questionablecontent/images/d/d9/CoffeeOfDoomLayout.png/revision/latest?cb=20110722083102)

The hedge (which has a name which I can't remember) is missing though, and the proportions are off.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: swapna on 15 Mar 2015, 02:59
I'm really, really late but haven't really had the time to read/think about the comic 'till now.

a) I like the perspective! It's a first, and finally I have an image in my head how the CoD looks like, not just the places to sit or the counter or the window.

b) I agree with several posters who mentioned that they didn't like the overcaptioning.. It would have been fine without.

c) I like the feel of it. Faye's leaving the place, not angry this time, but forever. It feels like an end, but more like  a beginning - her art and skills can open doors for her that she didn't  even notice while working at the CoD.

d) Dora/Faye reconciliation: well, again, I hope it's not too soon. Faye at least has things to apologise for, and I think Dora too (not for firing Faye -not starting that discussion again - , but for how she did it). I hope Faye leaves the CoD behind - she didn't deserve to be fired like this. She's been a valuable, motivated employee for the longest time and didn't deserve to be tossed aside like trash. I hope she finds a place where her prickly personality isn't an issue (because she works alone or with people who give as good as they get) and where her skills are valued.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Energia on 15 Mar 2015, 03:15
I presume the perspective in Friday's cartoon was from the counter looking out to the street.

Er, the counter's right there in the picture on the right (as drawn).  There's a crude layout map in the wiki:

The hedge (which has a name which I can't remember) is missing though, and the proportions are off.

Thanks for that  - we'd call that a mud-map in Australia; enough to let you find your way around.  I've enjoyed the comic for a year now, and I've only just discovered this social side to it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 15 Mar 2015, 09:51
I presume the perspective in Friday's cartoon was from the counter looking out to the street.

Er, the counter's right there in the picture on the right (as drawn).  There's a crude layout map in the wiki:

 img

The hedge (which has a name which I can't remember) is missing though, and the proportions are off.
His name is Melvin (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=467).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Mar 2015, 10:29

Quote from: Energia link=topic=30538.msg1310916#msg1310916

Thanks for that  - we'd call that a mud-map in Australia; enough to let you find your way around.  I've enjoyed the comic for a year now, and I've only just discovered this social side to it.

Yeah, it's been determined since I made that up that the cafe is narrower and a bit longer. Faye was probably looking at the front of the store from the doorway to the back room - ironically, where Dora caught her drinking.

It also appears that there is actually only the one table, instead of the three I had pictured.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: qc001 on 15 Mar 2015, 11:36
PLOT TWIST TWIST: May is Faye's new toaster.

Next, she'll teach Emily how to upload herself into a toaster (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2283).

End of comic: EVERYONE IS A TOASTER.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 15 Mar 2015, 12:52
Frakin' Cylons
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 15 Mar 2015, 13:00
Frakin' Cylons

I don't WANT to throw Emily out the airlock, though!
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 15 Mar 2015, 15:29

Quote from: Energia link=topic=30538.msg1310916#msg1310916

Thanks for that  - we'd call that a mud-map in Australia; enough to let you find your way around.  I've enjoyed the comic for a year now, and I've only just discovered this social side to it.

Yeah, it's been determined since I made that up that the cafe is narrower and a bit longer. Faye was probably looking at the front of the store from the doorway to the back room - ironically, where Dora caught her drinking.

It also appears that there is actually only the one table, instead of the three I had pictured.

There's actually at least two tables there. You can see a bit of another one in the very bottom left corner of the frame. If we go by the mud map, it looks as though she's standing approximately in the middle of the shop, if the machines on the right line up with said map (we see neither the baked goods case in-frame, nor the grinder, which would take up a fair amount of space combined). So it's still very possible that there's 3 tables there.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Aziraphale on 15 Mar 2015, 15:41

Quote from: Energia link=topic=30538.msg1310916#msg1310916

Thanks for that  - we'd call that a mud-map in Australia; enough to let you find your way around.  I've enjoyed the comic for a year now, and I've only just discovered this social side to it.

Yeah, it's been determined since I made that up that the cafe is narrower and a bit longer. Faye was probably looking at the front of the store from the doorway to the back room - ironically, where Dora caught her drinking.

It also appears that there is actually only the one table, instead of the three I had pictured.

There's an overhead shot that has the entire crew in CoD. Not sure if it's one of Jeph's or a guest comic, but it's from within the last year or so, I think (my archive skills aren't that great). There are multiple tables in that shot (and it does show the narrower/longer layout that you mention).
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 15 Mar 2015, 18:48
All this talk about BSG, and I'm left thinking that Sven would make a good Gaius Baltar.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 15 Mar 2015, 18:54
All this talk about BSG, and I'm left thinking that Sven would make a good Gaius Baltar.

I don't think he's nearly so prophesaic, or for that matter as much messianical. Ignore Baltar's true purpose, he definitely felt like Paul in later seasons, and he definitely thought he was a messiah in earlier seasons
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 15 Mar 2015, 19:21
I was referring more to appearance and general attitude before everything went to shit. Basically, Baltar before the bombs fell.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 15 Mar 2015, 20:18
I was referring more to appearance and general attitude before everything went to shit. Basically, Baltar before the bombs fell.

Oh yeah, agree 140% in that case.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 16 Mar 2015, 04:28
Baltar before the bombs fell.

Sounds like it should be a phrase in Tamarian.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: DSL on 16 Mar 2015, 07:15
I was referring more to appearance and general attitude before everything went to shit. Basically, Baltar before the bombs fell.

Oh yeah, agree 140% in that case.

He doesn't look a bit like John Colicos.
Title: Re: WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 16 Mar 2015, 07:45
I was referring more to appearance and general attitude before everything went to shit. Basically, Baltar before the bombs fell.

Oh yeah, agree 140% in that case.

He doesn't look a bit like John Colicos.

Gaius, not Count Baltar