THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 09 Aug 2015, 11:29
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A serious poll this week, I think. Bubbles is such a fascinating character and I'm really interested to see what fellow readers and fans think of her.
All of the options that I gave in the poll are plausible in my view, which makes voting in my own poll so very, very difficult. After a little thought, I'm going for her being someone who needs a friend and a purpose. I think, like many people, she's sort of cruising on auto-pilot, taking whatever obvious jobs appear and simply surviving. Finding something that she actually wants to do and a goal towards which to strive is something that has just escaped her since her demobilisation.
I wonder if Faye or one of Faye's friends/associates may inadvertently lead her onto that path?
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I think robo-PTSD is likely the thing. Not exactly the same as human PTSD because not a problem with processing, but a similar thing. There's definitely something going on for a military robot to turn into a pacifist.
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The PTSD and Lost Soul options aren't mutually exclusive. I'm going with both of them.
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An ex Military Combat AI/AnthroPC whose become a pacifist
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I'm going with "Other". She basically Ronda Rousey'd the competition, got bored, and once she took a step back she didn't like what she saw.
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Bubbles is not a happy being; I don't think we've seen her smile, and we probably won't. I sense a past epiphany concerning violence, combined with a present she did not chose and would do without if she could. Bubbles probably would never be allowed to be a human companion (and might not care to be one even if she could), and perhaps working in an illegal establishment means she can never again be part of legitimate anthroPC society. She could well be a tragic figure. Like May, she's quite disenchanted with her lot in life, but unlike May, she's courtly and dignified.
I'm wondering if the denizens of this AI Fight Club ever go to May and Momo's support group.Would they be welcome if they did? The support group would probably require that all illegitimate behavior stop before a member could join.
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I definitely hope we learn more about her.
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Comic's up! I like how Tai telling Dora she loved her for the first time totally mirrors Dora telling Marten she loved him for the first time.
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Are we going to get this kind of fuss every single time the words "I love you" are uttered for the first time in a relationship? Is everyone in this comic wandering around oblivious to their partner's emotions? :?
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Comic's up! I like how Tai telling Dora she loved her for the first time totally mirrors Dora telling Marten she loved him for the first time.
Does it? I'm not sure how I feel about that then. How many strips did Dora/Marten last?
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Well, Tai's really gone and put her foot in it this time, hasn't she?
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...I swear sometimes it's like Dora somehow wandered into webcomicdom straight from a 90s sitcom.
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Are we going to get this kind of fuss every single time the words "I love you" are uttered for the first time in a relationship? Is everyone in this comic wandering around oblivious to their partner's emotions? :?
It's not the feelings, it's the declaration of them. That means a lot to some people.
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Comic's up! I like how Tai telling Dora she loved her for the first time totally mirrors Dora telling Marten she loved him for the first time.
Does it? I'm not sure how I feel about that then. How many strips did Dora/Marten last?
About 1300 I think.Well, Tai's really gone and put her foot in it this time, hasn't she?
No? Not even a little.
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That line of Tai's in frame 2 is really bad juju for that relationship. It's good she can say it, but I'm not sure how long they can survive if she has to...
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Dora/Tai progression with possible leads towards Dora reforming fraternal bonds! Considering I feel the issue that led to such bonds being severed was bullshit, I'm in favor of this happening! Woo!
Oh, also love. That's a happy as well.
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If Dora doesn't respond with a quick "that's so sweet, I love you too" next comic, I'll be pretty annoyed.
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If Dora doesn't respond with a quick "that's so sweet, I love you too" next comic, I'll be pretty annoyed.
I hope so, but I feel that even if it happens, that'll be panel one, quickly turning, and that the bulk of tomorrow might be a defense of cutting Sven out. Dora doesn't like it being suggested she's wrong.
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Are we going to get this kind of fuss every single time the words "I love you" are uttered for the first time in a relationship? Is everyone in this comic wandering around oblivious to their partner's emotions? :?
It's not the feelings, it's the declaration of them. That means a lot to some people.
Yes, that's fair enough. And if this were the only occurance, I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. My comment was provoked by the impression I got that this is a rite of passage for every relationship in the comic, rather than something that happens only to "some people."
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Yeah, but it's not like it wasn't ridiculously obvious that Tai's loved Dora for years.
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A: I LOL'd
B: While it would be nice to have more rainbow farts and unicorns, I'm okay with Dora not having this figured out yet. She was the one with the love jones with Marten. It's symmetrical (with the old days when the "they look alike" thing was running fan gag) for her to be in the other seat.
C: Tai was doing the "I'm not trying to say anything racist" preamble. AKA the "No offense, but [something offensive]." Not to say she was being a bad human. Often being bluntly critical is rude as fuck. She was trying to speak her disagreement without being hurtful. She got so caught up in the reassurance, she didn't filter the content.
But that, and her final panel spit-take, suggests this is something she has been filtering, either unconsciously, or with intent. Early character statements aside, Dora is Tai's first steady in a long while. I'm pretty sure she isn't ready for this. And I don't mean in the idealized "ready for a relationship" manner. Just ready to have this conversation.
Dora certainly cares about Tai. It would be neat if Dora loves Tai. It's interesting, to me, that Dora, the control freak with the perfectionism streak, took a direct criticism and the most important thing she got from it was "I love you." That's either a very healthy sign or a very unhealthy one.
Which one it is can only be decided...
IN THUNDERDOME
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Yeah, but it's not like it wasn't ridiculously obvious that Tai's loved Dora for years.
Comic time is slow, though.
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Even in comic time, pretty much since she met her.
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I like what Tai did there. She hid a grenade going off by setting off a nuke.
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Exactly. Dora's focused on the declaration rather than the argument containing it.
I'm wondering if Tai's reaction is to Dora's focused comment, or to the reaction she was expecting to the rest of her statement...
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Yeah, but it's not like it wasn't ridiculously obvious that Tai's loved Dora for years.
Comic time is slow, though.
Even in comic time, pretty much since she met her.
Honestly, I got the impression that it was very much physical attraction ("oh my god Marten I wanna bang your girlfriend!" attraction) initially - it read more as lust than love, to me. She didn't seem to start mooning over her until towards the end of Marten and Dora's relationship at earliest, if my memory serves (which it admittedly doesn't, sometimes).
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Well, Tai has launched what is either a torpedo or a Cupid's arrow into their relationship.
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Yes. Tai had the hots for Dora.
She didn't really start with the infatuation until after Marten and Dora broke up. Even then, it wasn't love. It was infatuation.
Tai's "strongly positive impression," if you will, of Dora is hugely evident around the time Dora sets the date with Jim, but even then, it's not really "love."
I love pizza. You could say Tai's loved Dora in those terms forever, but the kind of "I love you" Dora is talking about is something different, and possibly new. It may be news to Tai. It's even possible she didn't mean it that way (unlikely, but possible. A slim possibility. Very thin. Anorexic).
Certainly, though, Tai's been really into Dora in one way or another since they met.
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Well, that was a lovely, heartwarming moment. I've long thought that Tai and Dora were in love and, more importantly, Tai is more aware of Dora's flaws than some gave her credit.
Jeph did an A+++ job with the artwork today. Tai's body language and the effort he put into the kiss were both nice touches that well communicated the principals' feelings. Particularly, Tai trying to do 'serious' and the way she gets the warm fuzzies from Dora's kisses. The last panel was the 'LOL' one, of course. It's obvious that Tai has been filtering out the 'L' word. Remember that she went through college on casual sex-based non-relationships and it is possible that she's afraid of going into deeper emotional commitment.
Tomorrow should be interesting in terms of how Dora reacts to this inadvertent declaration. She wouldn't be Dora if she didn't have some sense of inadequacy or fear (and poor Marten is probably going to be roped in as arbitrator again). However, I do think that these were words that Dora was ready to hear.
Naturally, the point of what Tai was saying - That Dora has issues to confront of which her relationship with Sven are actually a symptom - is going to be forgotten. :laugh:
P.S.
That line of Tai's in frame 2 is really bad juju for that relationship. It's good she can say it, but I'm not sure how long they can survive if she has to...
Yeah, that's not automatically very good, is it? Credit where credit's due, Tai didn't try to tap-dance around it and Dora is realistic enough to say outright that she knew she had a problem and she'll hold her reaction in check because she wanted to hear Tai's views on this matter.
It's a rare person who solves their problems like those Dora suffers. The most that most of us can hope for is to get a handle on them so they don't periodically ruin their lives and Dora at least seems to be trying to go in that direction.
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Frame 1 tomorrow: "And even so you STILL missed the whole point of my declaration :roll:"
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Completely different topic:
I wonder how much May knows about Robot Fight Club
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Completely different topic:
I wonder how much May knows about Robot Fight Club
She's an ex-con; it's probably an open secret in the AI jail's chat-rooms.
NOTE
If AIs are anything like humans, they will need something like social interaction to stay healthy and stable. With that in mind, I suspect that the server farms that serve as AI prisons probably have limited interaction between inmates in specially secured and isolated 'chat-rooms' - areas where they can communicate with each other but with many safety features to stop AIs from harming each other or trying to escape via the hardware of the facility.
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Are we going to get this kind of fuss every single time the words "I love you" are uttered for the first time in a relationship?
I'm just a bit surprised that it is the first time, but I suppose that might just be the effect of "comic time".
Echoing BenRG, the art in this strip hits it for six. In the second panel, Dora's expression is excellent, and Tai's "sequence" is beautifully drawn. I think Tai must be wearing high heels and Dora flats though.
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Awww. Ah well, I guess Dora and Tai won't be talking about Sven in the near future which is a pity. Tai was making good points, but now they are both completely distracted by the inadvertent declaration. I guess we aren't going to see the siblings reunited any time soon.
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With Dora & Tai's lack of interaction with others at the mo, I'd almost forgotten about them.
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Comic's up! I like how Tai telling Dora she loved her for the first time totally mirrors Dora telling Marten she loved him for the first time.
Does it? I'm not sure how I feel about that then. How many strips did Dora/Marten last?
About 1300 I think.Well, Tai's really gone and put her foot in it this time, hasn't she?
No? Not even a little.
It was a joke. Dora's reacting as if Tai has said something earth-shattering when she hasn't.
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Two Mel Gibson reference in a row!
I suspect Sven's return is a sign that things haven't been abandoned to the extent they seemed to have been. He's still a thing. Tai having an opinion on the subject, at all, is something. I mean, I think you guys are over thinking it, a bit. Tai's skittishness about the subject and her statement are not necessarily horror signs. Keep in mind that the "other" fight implied by "another" was precipitated by exactly this subject. Tai has concerns about Dora pushing people out of her life.
It takes heart, I think, to be honest about all of that in the way Tai was. It's quite brave, too, considering she's likely concerned that she is someone Dora might decide to cut off. You might say that Tai has a brave heart.
:clairedoge:
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Are we going to get this kind of fuss every single time the words "I love you" are uttered for the first time in a relationship? Is everyone in this comic wandering around oblivious to their partner's emotions? :?
Uh. You been in a relationship?
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I wonder how Dora will react, considering when Tai first asked her out, Dora said she wasn't too sure about her feelings for Tai and wanted to wait to sleep together till she knew better. Love is a different level though. It sounds like Tai didn't even realise she felt that way yet.
I hope we get back to Tai's point about Sven though too.
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On the one hand, that was very sweet.
On the other, way to ignore everything else she said.
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way to ignore everything else she said.
It is of course possible that Tai herself will make exactly that point tomorrow.
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Twue wuv! :-D I am pleased. Took a while in comic time, but I am pleased.
To more serious matters, let's see what Dora has to say about the otherwise serious points offered.
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Uh. You been in a relationship?
Uh, yes. More than one.
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Rainbows and Puppies
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Uh. You been in a relationship?
Uh, yes. More than one.
Did you drop the 'L-word,' and did it mean anything to you when you did?
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I have dropped the 'L' word more times than I can count in my long-term relationship, and yes of course it did and still does.
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Do you see why your initial response is perplexing?
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No, sorry. You'll have to explain it to me.
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The first dropping of the l-word is a big deal, as it should be. Knowing you love them, knowing they love you, and them saying it is completely different. It's nothing to do with being completely unaware of each other's feelings, it's entirely to do with acknowledging big moments in the relationship when they happen, and reacting with the joy and surprise they deserve.
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Considering Jeph has just noted on Twitter that he was looking for references of women in bras, I'm guessing Dora reacts favorably...
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Tonight: Marigold tells Dale she loves him.
Wed: Claire tells Marten she loves him.
Thu: Sven tells Faye he loves her. Still.
This is what happens when you have a week of robot death match and no kissing.
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Fri: Barry does a piledriver on Sven. On Faye's command.
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I still want to see Deathbot there
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Fri: Barry does a piledriver on Sven. On Faye's command.
Sven: "What the hell was that for?"
Barry: "Aww, I didn't mean anything by it."
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The first dropping of the l-word is a big deal, as it should be. Knowing you love them, knowing they love you, and them saying it is completely different. It's nothing to do with being completely unaware of each other's feelings, it's entirely to do with acknowledging big moments in the relationship when they happen, and reacting with the joy and surprise they deserve.
I think I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I didn't mean to say that saying "I love you" shouldn't be a big deal. I wasn't saying that there shouldn't ever be surprise. I definitely wasn't saying there shouldn't be joy.
I was merely a little surprised that there wasn't a bit more variety in the types of reactions that occur in the strip. It commonly seems to be not so much surprise as complete shock.
Has there ever been a reaction of "surprise AND joy" in the comic? Your archive-fu is probably superior to mine. Surprise me! :)
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Thu: Sven tells Sven he loves him. Still.
FTFY
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butts
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Thu: Sven tells Sven he loves him. Still.
FTFY
Pretty sure Sven hates Sven, actually.
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Looks like I got faked out. :)
To be fair, so did Tai.
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Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang
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Well, that's one way to un-fluster a Tai... Development can wait for tomorrow, I guess. Jeph is far too fond of drama for Sven to have appeared without good plot reason, so now we play the waiting game.
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Thu: Sven tells Sven he loves him. Still.
FTFY
Pretty sure Sven hates Sven, actually.
Yes, but could you count on him to be honest with him?
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Yeah, actually.
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EEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! Loved this page so much. :3
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Sven tells Faye he loves her. Still.
I know Faye's from the South, but I don't think she's a moonshiner. :claireface:
And yay for non-verbal communication.
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Yeah, actually.
Guess you told ME.
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I guess so :wow:
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Considering Jeph has just noted on Twitter that he was looking for references of women in bras, I'm guessing Dora reacts favorably...
Well, doesn't look like that was for TODAY'S strip...
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Bow-chic-a-bow-wow.
I'll be in my bunk....(eating half a gallon of ice cream to soothe my Foerever Alone-ness)
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Bow-chic-a-bow-wow.
I'll be in my bunk....(eating half a gallon of ice cream to soothe my Foerever Alone-ness)
I've got chocolate chip cookies.
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Bow-chic-a-bow-wow.
I'll be in my bunk....(eating half a gallon of ice cream to soothe my Foerever Alone-ness)
I've got chocolate chip cookies.
So does the dark side.
With nuts.
:evil:
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I think Tai has put on a bit of weight. She looks a bit heavier here than in the past.
This is the first time we've seen any of Dora's tattoo in a long time. If Jeph ever needs a filler arc having Dora have some work done on it would be a fun one.
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Bow-chic-a-bow-wow.
I'll be in my bunk....(eating half a gallon of ice cream to soothe my Foerever Alone-ness)
Got room for another in that bunk? Also, I hope that ice cream's chocolate!
I think Tai has put on a bit of weight. She looks a bit heavier here than in the past.
He's been drawing her heavier for a while now.
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Was it here or another comic that brought up relationship weight?
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It was here. I think it was the "Hug it out" strip. I'll see if my achive-fu is strong tonight.
EDIT: It was in the WCDT regarding this comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2914).
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Considering Jeph has just noted on Twitter that he was looking for references of women in bras, I'm guessing Dora reacts favorably...
Well, you're right, but I'm not sure why he was looking for that.
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Considering Jeph has just noted on Twitter that he was looking for references of women in bras, I'm guessing Dora reacts favorably...
Well, you're right, but I'm not sure why he was looking for that.
I spent the better part of non-work time for two days figuring out how I'd render a smokescreen effect, for a comic panel. Then I went with a flashbomb because it made a better image. Being an artist is like that. Also, Jeph might be planning to show them getting back into their clothing, so it's not certain that he was actually planning to use the research today. I got some ideas on how to use the smoke sim to do things that have nothing to do with smoke, too, so that worked out for me. No saying that Jeph won't have a use for whatever he learned, later.
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All I can say is "Well, that escalated quickly!"
I wonder... Does it say more about Tai or about Dora that she was sure her confession had messed things up? Either Dora must have really, really either kept her feelings locked up tight or Tai must have had a seriously strange idea about what Dora wants from a relationship for her to actually think that telling Dora that she loved her was a mistake! I guess that's what being in too many emotionally-divorced relationships do for you!
Trivia note: I believe that this sets a QC record. We've now seen Dora and Tai explicitly post-coitus more times than any other pairing who only have one appearance each.
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It's possible that Tai flusters easily. She could be self medicating with weed.
Or, it could be that Tai was at just the right point of high that the paranoia kicked in.
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Nah, no stereotypical red eyes that Jeph is fond of using to indicate high-ness.
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This reminds me of a children's book on the ancient Greek Olympics I once found in second hand book shop.
I really should have bought it. It fascinated me because of the desperate ingenuity of the illustrator, who had to draw
naked men on pretty much every page, sometimes dozens of them. And without exception, every single one in
a pose or positions that concealed their dangly bits.
They certainly earned their money on that commission.
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Oooh, this is simply wonderful. I love everything about todays strip.
How Doras expression doesn´t change the first three panels.
Tais increasing flustering and panic in those panels.
And the last panel is of cause sexy and beautiful at the same time. Especially Tais expression. :-*
Jeph shows his remarkable skill in drawing facial expressions here. I´m really impressed.
TM
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What a truly lovely comic today.
I think I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I didn't mean to say that saying "I love you" shouldn't be a big deal. I wasn't saying that there shouldn't ever be surprise. I definitely wasn't saying there shouldn't be joy.
I was merely a little surprised that there wasn't a bit more variety in the types of reactions that occur in the strip. It commonly seems to be not so much surprise as complete shock.
Has there ever been a reaction of "surprise AND joy" in the comic? Your archive-fu is probably superior to mine. Surprise me! :)
Ah, I see, that's a lot more understandable. I have appalling archive-fu, I've only read everything once in the past decade.
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Because tits are evil and seeing them gives you cancer.
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I'm not too fond of love declarations during, after or via sex. Coital euphoria tends to override brain functions, and I wouldn't place too much trust in love declarations made in that state.
Considering Jeph has just noted on Twitter that he was looking for references of women in bras, I'm guessing Dora reacts favorably...
Well, you're right, but I'm not sure why he was looking for that.
Who says it's related to the comic? Let the man have his hobbies.. :roll:
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I'm not too fond of love declarations during, after or via sex. Coital euphoria tends to override brain functions, and I wouldn't place too much trust in love declarations made in that state.
I would argue that rule doesn't apply in this case. Dora dragged Tai home to make love to her as a response to Tai's words. She then said the words in panel 4 to remove any doubt, not that it was narratively reasonable for there to be any.
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I'm pretty sure Tai was as nervous as she was because it's almost certainly the first time she's told anyone this.
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I had two reactions to this strip. "Awww..." And, as Dale, and so many others have put it, "Daaaaang." Well, 3 reactions. The third was me being glad that I didn't check the comic at work, as I usually do :P
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Was it here or another comic that brought up relationship weight?
The idea also recently appeared in Between Failures: http://betweenfailures.com/comics1/1414-date-weight (http://betweenfailures.com/comics1/1414-date-weight).
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Indeed, Tai's reaction is about as adorkable as you get. As someone who's done that, to admittedly fewer fireworks, that was a too-true kind of funny.
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Was it here or another comic that brought up relationship weight?
The idea also recently appeared in Between Failures: http://betweenfailures.com/comics1/1414-date-weight (http://betweenfailures.com/comics1/1414-date-weight).
Yep! That was it.
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I'm not too fond of love declarations during, after or via sex.
In this case, I think the sex was the love declaration. ;)
Looks like someone gave another dissertation.
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Hurray, plot development! (Not the one most were expecting, but still.) As for the frequency of post-coital panels, I guess Jeph should be commended that he doesn't do any really overt and pointless pandering...
I think Tai has put on a bit of weight. She looks a bit heavier here than in the past.
He's been drawing her heavier for a while now.
That reminds me of one more point about the way Tai is drawn: in #974 she mentioned binding her breasts, I guess that also got faded out over time, or you could connect it to Dora as well (but probably not). Brrh, that felt a bit creepy to write!
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I think she said she -used- to bind her breasts, with the implication that she no longer does so, but I could certainly be wrong. Archive-fu, activate!
EDIT: Came across this in my search. Ah, the retcon of Tai only being into monogamous relationships when she initially met Marten (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=728).
On topic though, here's this (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=974). I was wrong on that after all.
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I think Tai has put on a bit of weight. She looks a bit heavier here than in the past.
Yes, compare http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1915 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1915)
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Well, that's one way to reassure Tai
Personally, I think she's cuddly
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I wonder... Does it say more about Tai or about Dora that she was sure her confession had messed things up? Either Dora must have really, really either kept her feelings locked up tight or Tai must have had a seriously strange idea about what Dora wants from a relationship for her to actually think that telling Dora that she loved her was a mistake! I guess that's what being in too many emotionally-divorced relationships do for you!
I take it as saying more about Tai and her history of hookups with folks who most decidedly wouldn't have welcomed such a declaration. Tai spent a lot of her dating life keeping her romantic side under wraps for the most part, and getting burned when she let it show. I think it's still sometimes hard for her to believe that someone would love her instead of just liking her for a fun time. Remember how flabbergasted she was when Dora called her "my girlfriend"?
Tai's face and body language as she goes through her little freak-out is so well-drawn. Panel 3 cracked me up.
Re: Tai's weight, that could just be part of Jeph's style shift. The characters have gradually gone from highly stylized super-skinny figures to more realistic ones, and in the course of that, their bodies have become more differentiated from each other. Some, such as Dora, have remained on the twiggy side because that's who they are instead of because it's how Jeph draws humans. Those who haven't been deliberately cast as thin characters have filled out. Faye finally truly looks like the junk-in-the-trunk girl she's been known as from day one. Tai has been differentiated as a basically average figure next to Dora who's known to be skinny.
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Comic.
Yay, siblings speaking to each other again! Yeah, Dora, that's... I mean, it's ACCURATE, but still... Not the right tone for reconciliation, you get what I mean?
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If my sister sent me a text message saying, "hey asshole, we should talk." I would not be surprised.
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That was unreasonably quick for Dora. I'm not sure this isn't just post-coital energy (and I fear for the long-term viability of her outreach).
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Unreasonably quick? It took Hanners and Tai.
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It might be a sign that she has developed a strong trust for both her friend, and girlfriend. In which case, that's an indication of growth.
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Was it here or another comic that brought up relationship weight?
Just remembered that was Between Two Failures (http://betweenfailures.com/comics1/1414-date-weight).
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Unreasonably quick? It took Hanners and Tai.
Compared to her usual reaction to the idea that she may *gasp* be wrong about something, yes. Two friends telling her the same thing is pretty quick.
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I'm just wondering whether that autoreplace was because Sven or because Amherst.
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I think it's all up towards evolution of art style, except her chest anyway, she did use to bind them down. But reason I think this is as if you compare her face now to a long time ago, and she is just a hundred times more cute as a button now. lol. Not that she looked bad before, she didn't. Just saying.
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Honestly, I think the opposite - she's cuter to me as a petite lil' thing.
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Firstly, it's a bit of a downer having to confront your own anxieties and neuroses after a declaration of love. Secondly, it's good that Dora is willing to admit that she might be in the wrong or at least be taking things too far. It's good to question yourself sometimes, though. I also think that having Tai holding her hand will make things easier.
It will be genuinely funny if Sven tries his mojo on Tai; I don't think she has a hetro neuron in her brain! :laugh:
If my sister sent me a text message saying, "hey asshole, we should talk." I would not be surprised.
I suspect that Sven would question if the message was even really from Dora if it didn't refer to him as 'asshole'.
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Y'know, something about me that I'm sure is true of other people, but sometimes I can go ages not caring for certain characters all that much, in this case Dora and Tai, not them as a couple, them as separate characters, though I guess as a couple counts too. It's not that I didn't like them, I did well enough, but y'know.
Anyway though, at times something happens that complete flips my views, and it's extremely rare for it to flip back, like very extremely rare, lol.
So anyway, not I am so in love with Dora and Tai, especially them as a couple, they are so freaking cute together.
And also, I gotta say, I love that their declarations take turns. Dora called Tai her girlfriend to her surprise, and now Tai says she loves Dora to her surprise. lol. :3
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I disapprove of this going back to Sven because he's sorry. Sometimes you just have to cut toxic assholes out of your life, even if they are family.
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I find it more natural to call my brother "asshole" than "bro". My brother and I get along really well.
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I think Tai has put on a bit of weight. She looks a bit heavier here than in the past.
Yes, compare http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1915 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1915)
I think in general all the characters baring Hanners have gained weight since then, probably an artistic style shift.
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Yelling bird gone, Marten happy, Dora acting reasonable...WHAT'S GOING ON!
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Although the universes of QC and AG are completely independent, in fact karma travels between them via Jeph's brain and Ardent's death will be the price of Marten's happiness.
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Yelling bird gone, Marten happy, Dora acting reasonable...WHAT'S GOING ON!
He said the the disappearance of YB was the end of an era. Maybe we didn't look deep enough into what that meant
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Yelling bird gone, Marten happy, Dora acting reasonable...WHAT'S GOING ON!
Times change; people move on and mature; stories progress and move towards their end.
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stories progress and move towards their end.
Stoppit. Don't you dare suggest.
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QC is one strip closer to its end than it was at this time yesterday. This is true whether Jeph continues it for ten more strips or ten thousand.
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I disapprove of this going back to Sven because he's sorry. Sometimes you just have to cut toxic assholes out of your life, even if they are family.
I agree with sometimes you need to cut out toxic people in your life. I had to do it myself, with my own father. But I don't think Sven is a toxic asshole. He's conceited, lazy and has to do some serious evaluation of his life to do and how real life works when everything you want doesn't just fall in your lap. But he's not a bad or evil person. Aside from typical sibling rivalry he's been there when Dora's needed him. He's done thing that make people want to take a clue-by-four upside his head. But never out of spite or malice. It's Dora's insecurities and control freak nature that make her brand him as a 'toxic asshole'. The two getting together and talking hopefully will be good for both. Dora can face her issues without blaming other people maybe. And Sven can learn what 'boundaries' mean and that not everything he wants comes to him because he's Sven.
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I disapprove of this going back to Sven because he's sorry. Sometimes you just have to cut toxic assholes out of your life, even if they are family.
See, I agree with this sentiment, at least in theory. I've luckily never had to do such a thing with family, but there are some friends I finally had to cut ties with when I realized just how toxic they were.
My only quibble is that I don't see how Sven has been especially toxic. Has he been a jerk at times? Sure, but no more so than some other folks have been in the strip (and less than some.) He's also, like other characters, made efforts to change those things about him that are toxic, with varying degrees of success.
I'm not going to say that he's even a "good" guy. I mean, "cheating" on Faye (even though they weren't exclusive) was a super-douchey move. But that's not the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's him going up to Faye and confessing his "love." Even though he acted completely cluelessly there, it's never quite clear that he even knew she was in a relationship at that moment, and some of what he says during that conversation is evidence that he's at least trying to improve himself, even though he's just frankly terrible at it and is fumbling awfully (the rest of it is, yes, him being a clueless dipshit.)
But this conversation is the horrible sin that causes Dora to "realize" that he's a toxic person? When any number of other characters have fumbled their way through their development, often putting their foots in their mouths (or inadvertently stepping on others with said feet) yet treated with patience and acceptance?
I think Dora's stance here is less about Sven being any more toxic than anyone else, and more about her. I've never been one of the readers to think of Dora as being a particularly bad person, but in this case I think she's just too close to the situation, and this has more to do with her own unresolved issues with her brother than his being especially "toxic."
So, tl;dr: yeah, I'm welcoming this development. If anything else, it will give Dora an opportunity to deal with an unresolved issue. Worst case scenario, maybe we all learn that Sven really is as toxic as Dora feels, and her stance is justified. Best case: they both grow as people and learn some things about dealing with their issues that leaves them in a healthier place.
(But again, yes, I do agree that sometimes one has no choice but to just cut ties for one's own health. No one should be forced to stick around someone toxic just because they are "family.")
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I think this week of strips has shown a lot of character development.
Look at Tai. She used to be something of a gag character. She was hot for Dora for comedy, used shipping containers of drugs and sex for comedy, and was a fun boss for comedy. Here, she's shown that she's the kind of person who will put effort into Dora's safety and happiness.
Dora was the fun boss who had hidden insecurities "which weren't hidden well", with relationship issues. Here, she's starting to address those issues and confront those insecurities.
Thank you Jeph. Thank you for good character development.
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I think Dora's stance here is less about Sven being any more toxic than anyone else, and more about her. I've never been one of the readers to think of Dora as being a particularly bad person, but in this case I think she's just too close to the situation, and this has more to do with her own unresolved issues with her brother than his being especially "toxic."
Agreed. Sven is not a toxic person, no more or less than other people. And his relationship with Dora in particular, while we've heard things about their past, what we've seen on screen has not been toxic. We've seen Dora order Sven to stay away from her friends, we've seen Sven more or less do it, and he gave her a place to go after she broke up with Marten and found herself needing one on short notice. Even their past stuff, everything we've heard has been more "Sven is a clueless asshole who gets things because he's charming and talented" and "Sven doesn't think about how his actions might affect Dora" (sleeping with her friends).
If there's anything toxic about their relationship, it's on Dora's end: the jealousy she has toward Sven for things coming easily for him. Sven's cluelessness and self-obsession don't help matters any, but the toxicity isn't there.
I'm hoping this is leading Dora to that conclusion, especially given which of those things is more likely to be in her power to change. Even if she just comes to the conclusion that the only way she has to deal with her rivalry issues is to keep Sven cut off, that's way better than taking the easy way and blaming it all on him, in terms of her growth and ability to form healthy relationships elsewhere.
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This was really quick. Last time we heard from Dora about this was when she was going to cut Sven out of her life. We never saw that talk, never saw any real fallout, not even any strips with the therapist. The next time it was really brought up (as far as I can remember) was when Hanners bumped in to Sven. I just think a lot more could of been done with it, really shown Dora dealing with the consequences and giving her something to do, but instead we switched to Marten/Claire and Faye/Robots just to have it brought up at a random point.
Sorry, I should probably judge based on what's happening in the story instead of what I think the story could have been.
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Well, Dora hasn't been the focus of the plot in a long while. She probably just dealt with it by ignoring Sven's existence altogether. Not much to show there.
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Times change; people move on and mature; stories progress and move towards their end.
And after many a summer dies the swan.
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Dealing with Sven's gonna be the easy part
The hard one is the face-to-face she's gonna have to have with Faye
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And after many a summer dies the swan.
And in any season, people will comment on female characters' weight. :wink: More seriously, I was a bit disappointed to see this (http://i.imgur.com/6DivRhv.png) ad appearing alongside QC, one of the few sites where I don't block advertising. I know Jeph does not choose his advertisers, but...
More excellent art in 3023 (http://Comic 3023: SkullPhone 6 Plus). The positioning of Dora and Tai in each other's space is so nicely done. And I kind of want a SkullPhone 6 now.
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I'm loving the developments.
However, Dora's hands in the first panel really bring to mind the Photoshop possibilities.
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Dealing with Sven's gonna be the easy part
The hard one is the face-to-face she's gonna have to have with Faye
Ain't that the truth.
I'm weirdly looking forward to that, even though I know it's gonna be hell on both parties, possibly leading to Faye falling off the wagon. I hope it doesn't, but stress-related relapse isn't even a little unheard of in newly-sober alcoholics.
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Y'know, something I really wanna see now, now that Dora and Sven have made up is him meeting Tai. Does he know they're together? I can't recall if they were so when she cut him out.
Also, I've always wondered how to pronounce Sven's name, but couldn't figure it out, but now that I have a reference point I have to ask, is it pronounced like the reindeer in Frozen?
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Sssss kind of like a snake, and then "ven".
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ssssssssssssssssss-ven
One syllable.
And I haven't seen Frozen so I wouldn't know.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You know what to do. 8-)
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Y'know, something I really wanna see now, now that Dora and Sven have made up is him meeting Tai. Does he know they're together? I can't recall if they were so when she cut him out.
Also, I've always wondered how to pronounce Sven's name, but couldn't figure it out, but now that I have a reference point I have to ask, is it pronounced like the reindeer in Frozen?
Dude, they were dating AGES before, but whether he knew is less certain. As to the pronunciation of Sven, I pronounced it like the reindeer from Frozen approximately three yeads before Frozen existed. How the hell else would it be pronounced.
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The double constanent throws a lot of people not exposed to Scandanavian pronunciation, or similar derivatives.
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You know what to do. 8-)
Let it go? :parrot:
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You know what to do. 8-)
Let it go? :parrot:
Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
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Little confused as to why this conversation starts with Sven apologizing to Dora. He owes an apology to Faye for his shitty timing and attitude, but not to Dora.
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That's douche hair, that is.
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You know what to do. 8-)
Let it go? :parrot:
Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
But I don't wanna hold it back anymore. :p
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I know I asked for haircut recommendations in the miscellaneous musings thread but please nobody suggest that.
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You know what to do. 8-)
Let it go? :parrot:
Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
But I don't wanna hold it back anymore. :p
So that's what that smell was.
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I was expecting a delay.
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Sincerity, man. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.
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QC is one strip closer to its end than it was at this time yesterday. This is true whether Jeph continues it for ten more strips or ten thousand.
Unless it's one giant mobius strip.
:claireface:
...I'm sorry.
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QC is one strip closer to its end than it was at this time yesterday. This is true whether Jeph continues it for ten more strips or ten thousand.
Unless it's one giant mobius strip.
:claireface:
...I'm sorry.
One of these days, Jeph will post a comic about Marten complaining about his job and Pintsize offering porn to cheer him up. It will be then we'll know we have circled around.
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No. Pintsize has to come home and complain to Marten about his job.
Then we know we're half way around.
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A Mobius strip? What a twist!
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A Mobius strip? What a twist!
Exactly.
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Little confused as to why this conversation starts with Sven apologizing to Dora. He owes an apology to Faye for his shitty timing and attitude, but not to Dora.
He's apologising for a lifetime of behavior, the vast majority of which we are not privy to.
In any case, he knows full well that Does and Faye are very close friends, so you can't do shitty things to Faye and pretend that Dora ought to be unaffected.
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Does Sven have a new line of Sincerity Shirts? This looks almost the same as the one he was wearing while talking to Hannelore recently. (Or...is this still the same day??)
Oh, also I'm glad these two are talking and growing as human beings and stuff :-P
Pretty sure it's the next day. Sven has different pants on (I think, the ones from the day before look blue in the tiny bit we can see them), and Dora was wearing a tank top at the coffee shop but then a T-shirt when talking with Tai.
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I wonder how much of Sven's epiphany was due to the fact that Faye turned him down. I think it may have forced him to realise just what a shitty man he's been for years, relying on his natural charm and charisma to get him out of problems caused by his shallowness. That's a tough thing to realise about yourself and he may have realised that the time had come to really change his nature if he actually wants to find happiness. I forget exactly where but one of the early Sven strips had him being practically ravished by a woman and basically turned off and upset about it - it was my conclusion that his lifestyle never really made him happy in any real way.
Of course this sudden change is going to be even more unexpected to Dora, who has all these preconceptions about Sven, some of which are more than justified. I wonder is she's going to accuse him of being a pod-person?
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All very well but how long is it going to last?
Which will happen first: Sven reverting to his usual ways, or Faye falling off the wagon?
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It doesn't matter. In less than 58 months, the virus will be released.
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I think it may have forced him to realise just what a shitty man he's been for years, relying on his natural charm and charisma to get him out of problems caused by his shallowness.
What? How does that make him a bad person?
It honestly just sounds like people are jealous that he had it easy.
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There are two schools of thought there:
1: Dora and Sven are telling the truth about what amounts to the majority of their lives, which all occurred before comic 1.
2: Nothing counts but what is in the comic.
No adherent of one school has changed to the other.
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It doesn't matter. In less than 58 months, the virus will be released.
That is 5 years y'know. Pretty much a long long time. lol
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http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443
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That's douche hair, that is.
How many more appearances of Sven until all of us can move on from a friggin' hairstyle? I mean, I'm obviously not in charge of how to use the forum and hurray for freedom of expression, but from my point of view there really isn't anything to be added.
If you extrapolate the development of the comic time/real time ratio, some of us might not live to see the fruition of Hanners 5-year plan!
PS: I don't have a man-bun - at least not since the incident...
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http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443
Yes I know. That's why I said 5 years. lol
Also, I was looking through the archive, and two things. One, Tai's weight is def just art change, I mean look at Faye the first year. Twig. lol
Secondly, am I the only one who finds it kinda amusing that Tai's design resembles the way Faye looked in the beginning. lol
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I forget exactly where but one of the early Sven strips had him being practically ravished by a woman and basically turned off and upset about it - it was my conclusion that his lifestyle never really made him happy in any real way.
I think that was Gina Wintersmith, and if I recall correctly it was what triggered the falling out with Faye. The way I understood it, him being reluctant (or having "moments of reflection") hinted towards developing feelings for Faye. Still, he didn't have the spine or willpower to break the momentum of the whole thing, which makes sense because the sex drive has a lot of power and (at the time) he didn't really have much of a moral fibre to help while his brain was otherwise distracted.
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I'm enjoying seeing this arc get attention. I like the writing and the interactions and everything, and it's good to see character development on both sides: Dora listening to her friends' counsel and advice, Sven being aware of his mistakes and accepting responsibility for his actions. I'm glad that it's something that's been returned to. BUT...
But, I'm a little bothered by Sven's portrayal as the "villain" here. He admits to be a shitty brother. He's not entirely wrong there. He's not entirely right, either. He's been a bit of a lousy person at times, but a lot of the "shitty brother" stuff really seems like it's more on Dora than Sven. Consider the main points of contention...
1. Dora resents the fact Sven has had it easy
We’ve heard that Sven has had an easier time at school, socially and academically, than did Dora. This seems to have continued into his professional life as well; success seems to have come easy to him. Now, it’s entirely possible Dora is selling Sven short on how hard he’s actually worked to make that all happen, which makes understandable pangs of jealousy more of a case of sour grapes. But let’s say things just have come to him a bit easier…that’s nothing he’s actually done to Dora. That’s him living his life.
2. Dora’s friends in high school
Specifically, the fact they were only hanging out with him to hook up with Sven, and when things ended with him, she lost their friendship. You can definitely sympathise with Dora there, that must’ve felt lousy, and if we’re to assume that Sven wasn’t the most upstanding guy in high school either, he bears some responsibility for relationships ending badly and the friendships souring as a result. All the same…I think the really lousy people in that situation are the girls who faked a friendship with Dora because they fancied Sven, and when the flings ended, dropped all pretence of being friends with Dora. They’re the genuinely shitty ones in that scenario, offering false friendship and withdrawing it once they got what they want (or didn’t get what they want, as the case may be).
3. Sven and Faye Incident #1
The fact that they hooked up in the first place. Dora immediately assumed that it was meant to hurt her, due to her own insecurities…instead of two adults who both had a connection to her happening to hook up because of their own reasons (mostly alcohol, probably). Considering that Sven hadn’t made a move on Faye at the time, and had been respectful of Dora’s wishes that he not date any of her friends or staff (he rebuffed Raven’s advances on several occasions, citing that agreement), it wasn’t a jerk move on his part, or a particularly rational response on her part. It was really more about her own issues than anything he’d done.
4. Sven and Faye Incident #2
This one’s understandable, but I think it’s also more complicated than Dora and the other main characters made it out to be. Sven hurt Faye, and he’s a jerk for that. However, she also made it clear that it wasn’t a relationship, yet still wanted it to have the standards of one (a monogamous relationship, that is). As such, Sven is treated as having cheated on Faye, when they weren’t exclusive or even really dating. It’s implied that Faye possibly wanted more deep down, as did Sven, in which case he should’ve resisted the temptation. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t inconsiderate or a jerk or anything like that, but to some extent, Sven copped flak for something he didn’t really do: cheat on a partner he was exclusive with.
4. Sven and Faye Incident #3
Sven does act like an entitled jerk (going back on previous character development, but nevertheless, it is what it is within the canon), and seems to believe that confessing that he loves Faye will somehow win her over. Again, kind of a weird direction for the character to take given some of the stuff that happened previously, but you can kind of see how we came to that. Sven’s actions are stupid, misguided, and coming at an inopportune time, since Faye’s relationship is about to take a hit it can’t recover from. Sven doesn’t know that, and Faye kind of brought her relationship troubles on herself by not being honest and open with Angus, but it doesn’t change the fact that Sven’s terribly misguided there. Faye is/was Dora’s friend, so she sees it as the last straw…though she does hear about it all second-hand from Cosette.
5. He hasn’t handled relationships well in the past
We’ve had a couple of examples of him being a bit of a lousy boyfriend, gutless in breaking things off, and things like that. It’s behaviour that Sven and indeed anyone deserves to be called out on, and since Dora has had some bad relationships of her own, it’s understandable that it would touch a nerve.
So, here’s the thing: while Sven isn’t blameless, and has done some lousy things, few of them have been to Dora directly…at least, in the time that we’ve known them. There’s obviously been sibling rivalry and arguments growing up, but if we’re going to excuse Claire and Clinton for that stuff, then Sven and Dora should get a pass, too.
Now, that doesn’t mean Dora can’t object to his actions and attitudes, and feel hurt by them, as a sibling, as a woman…hell, as a human being. Sven’s no saint, and he’s given Dora reason to be critical. But a lot of the problems she has with him seem to come from her own insecurities and jealousy, as well as the decisions and actions of third parties (Faye, fake friends in high school, the country music industry), and her inability to control everything. It’s more about her issues than anything he’s done.
Let’s also consider the positive aspects of their relationship:
1. Early on, they’re shown meeting up for dinner, and it’s implied to happen somewhat regularly. If nothing else, they seem to know what’s going on in each other’s lives, and be on friendly terms.
2. As mentioned before, Sven does respect Dora’s insistence that he not date or hook up with any of her friends and/or employees. He does eventually hook up with Faye, but let’s face it, they’re adults, and they didn’t do it to hurt Dora. For the most part, he kept his word on this.
3. The “pretend date” with Hannelore. He kept his word, he was a gentleman, he did something nice. There appeared to be some genuine character development there, we saw a good side of him, and Dora and Faye seemed to appreciate that he did the right thing.
4. While the relationship was ultimately doomed, his advice to Marten after the Underwear Hugging Incident was well-meaning, probably helped in the short term (long term, Dora’s issues torpedoed the relationship), and showed genuine concern for his sister.
5. After the break-up, he gave Dora place to stay, and they seemed to be working out some of their issues, as therapy helped Dora see how she shared responsibility for the rivalry and tension…in one strip, she even apologised to him for it! There were a few strips there that showed despite their differences and issues, they did care for one another, and didn’t have too bad a relationship when it came down to it. I mean, we’ve seen more bickering and annoyance with one another from Claire and Clinton in about 1000 strips compared to the 2500+ strips that both Dora and Sven have been around.
So yeah…I don’t know. I’m not saying that Dora’s completely in the wrong, or that Sven’s actions shouldn’t have any effect on their relationship, but…I don’t think he’s the villain Dora – and the narrative, to some extent – is making him out to be.
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Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
Conceal don't feel, don't let them know? :-D
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All very well but how long is it going to last?
Which will happen first: Sven reverting to his usual ways, or Faye falling off the wagon?
Uh, Faye already fell off back here... (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2972)
And it was Gina Riversmith. Supposedly a combination of Taylor Swift, Carrie Underwood, and Kelly Clarkson.
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Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
Conceal don't feel, don't let them know? :-D
Well now they know? :p
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Re: Sven's Hair,
I speak from experience. I once had that hair.
NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT HAIR.
EDIT:
OMG OMG OMG THE THINGY UNDER MY NAME CHANGED!!
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But, I'm a little bothered by Sven's portrayal as the "villain" here. He admits to be a shitty brother. He's not entirely wrong there. He's not entirely right, either. He's been a bit of a lousy person at times, but a lot of the "shitty brother" stuff really seems like it's more on Dora than Sven. Consider the main points of contention...
[Lots of incredibly well-thought-out and reasoned support for statements].
So yeah…I don’t know. I’m not saying that Dora’s completely in the wrong, or that Sven’s actions shouldn’t have any effect on their relationship, but…I don’t think he’s the villain Dora – and the narrative, to some extent – is making him out to be.
We don't have their childhood on screen, but honestly, aside from Dora having shitty people using her to get to Sven, it sounds pretty much like their problems were perfectly normal "we're siblings and we're not always going to get along" stuff. Sven teased Dora and stole her toys, Dora resented how easily stuff came to Sven when she had to bust her ass off to get less, hooray, siblings. We don't hear of anything Dora did to get back at Sven, but then, we've mostly heard Dora's perspective on it. The thing is: Sven is not a shitty brother now. Maybe he was in high school. Maybe he knew that the girls were just being "friends" with Dora to get with him and didn't care. Maybe he knew that Dora was struggling with the comparisons and didn't even try to fix it by helping her out somehow. I'd be very interested to see what Sven's perspective on their childhood is.
Sven can be a shitty human being, but if losing Dora is what gave him the kick in the ass to realize that and try to change it? That tells me he cared a lot about his sister, which is supported by him respecting her laying down the law about staying away from her employees/friends and doing his best to be helpful in her relationship issues with Marten. I don't know that I buy that he's in love with Faye, and I certainly don't buy that this most recent bout of sincerity and self-reflection was caused by her failure to throw herself into his arms when he declared his love.
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I mean I understand Sven isn't exactly a role model. But cutting him off for weeks probably, and forcing him to apologize before you'll talk to him again is out of proportion if you ask me. I mean, why? Because he has a lot of casual sex? Because he never learned how to have a healthy relationship? He never committed a crime, he never intentionally hurt anyone, but he has to either self-flaggelate or lose his only sibling?
I've never really disliked Sven. Nor have I ever thought he was a 'shitty human being' at any point in the comic except maybe the ex in the bar thing a long time ago. And I feel sorry for him now.You don't just cut off your family because they were kind of a prick, especially when they're trying to change. This has much more to do with Dora's anger and jealously than it does Sven's supposedly horrible behavior.
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@94ssd,
The problem, for Dora, is that Sven became symbolic of every way in which her life has gone wrong. He had it easy (or at least she perceived it that way) in every way that she had it hard. It's a very, very easy and human flaw to feel bitter towards people in those circumstances.
Because of this, Dora has always had a short fuse where Sven has been concerned. The few times that he did bad things associated with her 'on screen' were just further gasoline thrown on a pre-existing fire. There's no surprise that she finally just wanted him (and the mental and emotional stress that the simple fact of his existence causes her) out of her life.
Ironically, though, it is at least as much her issues as his.
FWIW, I think it is to Sven's credit that he's mature enough to recognise that, when making and keeping the peace with his little sister, pride doesn't come into it and nor does who is 'right'. What matters is making peace. If that requires apologising (effectively for existing), then so be it. We can see how effective it was in today's strip!
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I agree with ASB84's assessment of Sven, I usually go back to Marten's reaction to his break up with Faye as how I look at his character (and most characters in the strip when they do something 'wrong').
I have this sinking feeling it's going to be revealed that Dora talked to Sven about Faye's relationship troubles before he dropped the bomb. I really hope not, but the narrative does seem to be trying to hammer home that he deserves this. I'm sure there's a dozen reasons that wouldn't make sense, but I feel better just putting it out there.
One thing I really appreciated about Tai's original wooing of Dora is her assessment of how awesome Dora is for having her own business and running it how she likes it while making it successful. I'm hoping that sort of support will shore up her self-esteem, and stop her from making comparisons with her brother's career, which not even he is proud of.
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I think that Sven is probably over reacting when he says 'everything is my fault'. Sort of an over correction from his 'don't have to do anything and I still have an awesome life' days. He's growing, which is good. But blaming himself for Dora's issues is not really a help either. Hopefully Dora will counter with 'No no.. I've been a jerk too.' and the two of them actually talk and reconnect some. Dora's made a lot of work on her feelings of insecurity and blame shifting. Still more to do of course, there always is. But she's not flying off the handle at the suggestion she might be wrong as often, and is actually taking Tai's advice to heart.
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I mean I understand Sven isn't exactly a role model. But cutting him off for weeks probably, and forcing him to apologize before you'll talk to him again is out of proportion if you ask me.
Nobody forced him to apologize.
Just because he offered an apology, it doesn't mean there was a gun to his head. Reread the comic. Dora says three words. Actually, two and placeholder. There's no evidence that Dora put any preconditions on their meeting. Her first draft was "Hey, bro. We should talk."
Further, Sven didn't engage in any "trying" for Dora's sake, that we are aware of. He just did his own thing and tried to be a good friend to Hanners. Hannelore brought Sven's behavior to Dora, and Dora brought it to Tai. The feedback she got was nothing to do with Sven trying to appease her.
Dora is right to assess that she might be being stubborn. It would be one thing if Sven was trying to telegraph an apology to get her to talk to him, but he wasn't. Dora didn't make Sven do anything, and Sven didn't (that we are aware) try to manipulate Dora into changing her position. So far, we have no evidence that anyone is trying to hold anything over anyone or force anything.
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Technically her first draft was "Hey, asshole. We should talk." :-)
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Technically, that was an edit courtesy of Steve Jobs.
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MAAAAAN-BUUUUN! AAARGHHHHHH!!!!
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I don't have an issue with man-buns in general (although why can't it just be called a bun? We shouldn't have to masculinise everything declared feminine so it's acceptable for men too), it's a good style for getting long hair out of the way. However Sven does not have enough hair to make a proper bun.
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Technically, that was an edit courtesy of Steve Jobs.
suuuurrrrre it was autocorrect ... though some of those do "correct" based on the user's past word-usage patterns, or the autocorrect's interpretation thereof.
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She said it was auto replace. As in she told it to replace the word 'bro' with 'asshole' every time she typed it in.
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More than likely she went into settings and made "bro" a shortcut for "asshole". That's the only type of autocorrect I use and exclusively for swear words.
Example: bs becomes bullshit.
Edit: god damn it ninja_ali :wow:
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nyahahah! *drops a smokebomb and retreats to the ceiling to await the next sneak attack*
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You know what to do. 8-)
Let it go? :parrot:
Dude, I fucking love that movie, but can we please not get into the singing?
But I don't wanna hold it back anymore. :p
So that's what that smell was.
No, as always, that Funky smell was Russell.
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Sven and Dora
Violence optional
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i like Sven's hair.
*scurries back to lurking*
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PS: I don't have a man-bun - at least not since the incident...
You are Nobutada from The Last Samurai? :psyduck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83_Gq47n3-0
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Haircuts can be very serious business (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queue_(hairstyle)#Manchu_queue).
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Technically, that was an edit courtesy of Steve Jobs.
suuuurrrrre it was autocorrect ... though some of those do "correct" based on the user's past word-usage patterns, or the autocorrect's interpretation thereof.
I never said it was autocorrect. I just said her iDevice did it for her. Past actions are not current actions. The time you (I mean you, specifically) intentionally committed a crime (and everyone has thanks to human nature and the proliferation of laws) does make every subsequent act criminal. That time you said something with intent only to later discover it was hurtful doesn't mean you intend to say hurtful things when every you speak. The funny autoreplace, be it auto generated by your patterns or added by you, does mean that what you intended to write this time.
Technically Her phone wrote asshole. She said what she intended to do, and stated that the autoreplace had outlived its purpose.
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Was the sense of humor surgically removed or just neglected?
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Comic's up!
D'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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Well, that's...moving in the right direction, even if Sven is still being portrayed as more villainous than he probably should be. I do like that Dora mentions trying to be a better sister, though.
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Was the sense of humor surgically removed or just neglected?
It wasn't funny.
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I'm in favor of today's comic for purpose of development.
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How long before autocorrect starts a war?
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How long before autocorrect starts a war?
According to The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch, we have a few weeks left.
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I need only reference chapter 31 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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I know exactly what you're referring to, but I don't remember the line itself.
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"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
http://www.cgoakley.org/vlhurgs/index.html
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I imagine he pronounces his name like Ole's friend Sven.
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Well, it seems that if nothing else, Dora's therapy left a bit of an impression, no matter how short lived it was.
Because her little speech at the end sounded a lot like something a therapist would say!
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What makes you think she's not still going?
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She may well still be going, but I seem to recall that there was a consensus in here that it was unlikely. Something about her personality... :roll:
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Kinda feel sorry for Sven I mean his life seams pretty fucked/lonely.
Probably his only friend or contact outside of his music stuff is Hannelore.
A string of empty meaningless sex that leaves you feeling hallow and....
The first time in a while (ever?) that he actually wanted a relationship it's an painfully situation that ends up blowing up in his(everyone) face.
Probably has vary little contact with his parents if they even acknowledge him at all(can not remember if he was even mentioned in passing).
And a insecure little sister that has decided that he is a toxic no good piece of shit that she wants nothing to do while he obviously cares greatly for her.
self hatred isolation depression
still trying :meh:
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That's a lovely heartwarming end to the arc. I sort of thought that it would end with something like this. In the end, in the very end, Dora wanted her big brother back, just like Sven wanted his little sister back. What they needed was the courage to risk being hurt and to remember that there are things more important than pride.
Aaannnd... Jeph's been working on his hugs. This is still a bit stiff looking but it is definitely better-drawn and more natural looking than Dora and Tai's make-up hug from a few score strips back.
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I should be getting the warm fuzzies from these two working on their problems and hugging things out. Except I'm still hung up on why Sven was the bad guy here.
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He's not. Hell, Dora acknowledged that she had to be a better sister, too.
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I should be getting the warm fuzzies from these two working on their problems and hugging things out. Except I'm still hung up on why Sven was the bad guy here.
I think what you're hung up too much is the thought of Dora being the voice of the author/the protagonist, and the protagonist being always right.
Dora and Sven are both characters in the same world. Dora thought she was right, she said she was right, we don't see Sven very often, but that doesn't mean that she was right.
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Always best to return to the Dictum of Jeph: No one is 100 percent right, no one is 100 percent wrong.
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Not even Jeph :parrot:
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Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.
It's good to be the king.
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You'd think! It's very close but not quite 100%.
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105%?
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Possibly! But unlikely.
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105%?
with a margin of error of ~5% give or take at least one standard deviation.
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Do people talk the way Dora did in this strip? It seems to me to be an instance of telling, not showing.
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Do people talk the way Dora did in this strip? It seems to me to be an instance of telling, not showing.
Sometimes conversations have to be explicit, I have had similar ones before at both ends of the statement.
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Haircuts can be very serious business (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queue_(hairstyle)#Manchu_queue).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/dexeron/2688a173-1313-4e1c-ba23-5cf43012cae5_zpshq3psi84.png)
Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to return to Jusenkyō for further training.
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105%?
with a margin of error of ~5% give or take at least one standard deviation.
If the max rating of truth is smaller than the actual maximum amount of truth, we can reach 105% of max rated truth. This is called truthiness. I believe it in my gut.
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Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.
It's good to be the king.
He was talking about his characters. To go beyomd that is to place one's self in the position of the college lecturer who told Isaac Asimov that his having written the story didn't mean he knew what was in it.
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Is that a bad position to be in?
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Well, as the god, Jeph is 100% right even when he's 100% wrong.
It's good to be the king.
He was talking about his characters. To go beyomd that is to place one's self in the position of the college lecturer who told Isaac Asimov that his having written the story didn't mean he knew what was in it.
That's what I said.
Even if Jeph were to be factually incorrect about the content of his Questionable activity (possible with 300 entries), he'd still be right if he declared that to be the way it is. Because he is the god.
The King. It is good to be him.
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Well, no, not necessarily. He's the god within the comic itself. Not outside. Him saying stuff about it elsewhere doesn't make it so.
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Well, no, not necessarily. He's the god within the comic itself. Not outside. Him saying stuff about it elsewhere doesn't make it so.
That's what he wants to you think.
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Now that is an insight.
A lot of philosophers through history would instantly have diagnosed Sven's problem as pursuing and achieving pleasure instead of happiness.
Kinda feel sorry for Sven I mean his life seams pretty fucked/lonely.
Probably his only friend or contact outside of his music stuff is Hannelore.
A string of empty meaningless sex that leaves you feeling hallow and....
The first time in a while (ever?) that he actually wanted a relationship it's an painfully situation that ends up blowing up in his(everyone) face.
Probably has vary little contact with his parents if they even acknowledge him at all(can not remember if he was even mentioned in passing).
And a insecure little sister that has decided that he is a toxic no good piece of shit that she wants nothing to do while he obviously cares greatly for her.
self hatred isolation depression
still trying :meh:
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Dora and Sven acknowledge that Sven was the parental favorite. However, there's been no data on his current relationship with them.
Beyond that, aside from being contemptuous of his job, Sven wasn't down on life. He and Wil are good friends, too. It wasn't until Faye that he began to question the value of meaningless sex.
I was until Hanners that he began to approach the idea of women as more than objects to manipulate, and even then he did it by giving metacommentary on how he would manipulate her (and indications said it would work). In fact his "creepy" comment to Hanners, recently, has a different context when you realize that Sven's skill at emotional manipulation is a topic of conversation between those two.
From Faye onwards, Sven is certainly having a slow meltdown. He certainly becomes the sad figure implied, by the end of it, but I suspect he still has Wil, and whatever off camera friends he has. (Probably not the intern, tho). I think he's got a long way to go on his woman problem. Not because he's shown anything, but because I don't think Jeph would have given him the man bun, if he weren't still in whipping boy territory.
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Next week
Faye and Dora in the apartment talking
No, that is NOT a Tamarian reference dammit!!!!
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Kugai, not speaking in Tamarian. :-P
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:-D
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A lot of philosophers through history would instantly have diagnosed Sven's problem as pursuing and achieving pleasure instead of happiness.
At least one pointed out that pursuit itself leads to suffering. In my tradition, we would say that Sven has at last seen the hoofprints of the ox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls#Ku.C3.B2.C4.81n_Sh.C4.AByu.C7.8En.27s_Ten_Bulls).
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At first I thought Sven's apology was an insincere attempt to wriggle out of trouble, but in retrospect I think he's learned a little humility for the first time, and he really meant it. Of course it was expressed in wildly exaggerated terms because it's not a feeling he's used to having or talking about.
As for Dora, I'm not entirely surprised she's agreed to talk to Sven, because her decision to cut him off seemed out of the blue and unpremeditated. And then Sven's apology obviously did come across as genuinely heartfelt.
I wonder if Sven's ever hugged anyone outside of one of his seduction episodes?
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Other than blood relatives. At least Hanners that we know of.
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Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?
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No reason. That Dora declared him "toxic" says much more about her than about him.
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Other than blood relatives. At least Hanners that we know of.
Faye also, actually, which counts since it was before they started sleeping together, and it wasn't a ploy to get in her pants (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=987)
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I don't think Sven is all that awful. However, Dora perceives him to have some bad tendencies(which he does) and that has mixed with sibling rivalry, envy, and her own perceived inadequacies. I think Sven realizes what caused all of it to boil over, and how to reduce the tension. He may be confused as hell about why he is a bad brother, but he is willing to try to be a better one for her. Because as the eldest, he may think that it's his place to admit fault to help her deal with her feelings. If he had not apologized there, at the onset, would Dora have admitted fault as well? It's impossible to say, but I think it helped. Becoming a better person is a lot easier when someone is there, trying with you.
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Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?
Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?
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The only one I know of that thought Sven was horrible and undeserving of forgiveness was Dora. And yet there she is. I also think part of the reason Sven jumped to the apology first was trained reflex. From what we've seen, if Dora is angry she will hold the grudge until the other person apologizes, even if she is in the wrong. It's part of the reason she and Marten broke up. Remember back when they had the fight because she was snooping on his computer for his porn, after Marten asked her not to. How he complained to Faye that he had to go apologize to Dora again, even though he wasn't the one who had done something wrong. Sven has had to live with that all Dora's life basically.
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Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?
Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?
Have you missed how the comic has pretty much have had everyone be like "Yeah he's a piece of shit and we wouldn't blame you not forgiving him..But he is your brother" Even Dora attitude now is pretty much "You don't deserve this...but your family"
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Remind me why Sven is so apparently horrible and undeserving of forgiveness unlike Tai,, Dora and Faye?
Did you just miss the part where Dora forgave him? Or is this one of those strawmen?
Have you missed how the comic has pretty much have had everyone be like "Yeah he's a piece of shit and we wouldn't blame you not forgiving him..But he is your brother" Even Dora attitude now is pretty much "You don't deserve this...but your family"
We reading the same comic?
I don't see what's happened as trying to whitewash Sven's shitty past behavior. More like he's aware he's fucked up, said he's sorry, and now he's actively trying to be a better dude. Hanners has seen it, that's why she tried to suggest they make amends, and Tai's seen enough of Dora's personal shittiness to know not everything happened exactly the way Dora makes it out to have been. Dora's part of the problem, too. She cut her brother out because he had feelings for a girl it's unclear he knew was in a relationship. How the fuck is that deserved. It's worth yelling at him to be more sensitive, but not cutting out completely.
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What if the Genevieve incident (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=682) was typical of his previous life? A few dozen situations like that could leave people near him unable or unwilling to see his good side. It's also possible that his good side has only come into being recently, long after Dora's formative years.
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I want to point out, that a person doesn't have to be inherently toxic in and of themselves to have a toxic effect on people (or, at least, a rather negative one). Even if they haven't done something "omg horrible evil bastard" level, if they're causing a drain on your emotional wellbeing, it is perfectly natural to want to excise them from your life, either temporarily or permanently.
I think the separation was probably good for the both of them- have some space to get away from each other and figure shit out. A shock to the system for Sven to give him further incentive to be a better person (because the last incident with Faye was just... grotesque), and some breathing room for Dora to discharge some of the negative energies.
Now the proper healing can begin.
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What if the Genevieve incident (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=682) was typical of his previous life?
Honestly, I expect it was, but the past doesn't dictate the future. Every saint has a past and all that baloney. Hanners thinks he's changing for the better, we've seen him trying to do so, which is admittedly us knowing something Dora doesn't, but I'm a firm believer in people's ability to grow and change.
Maybe a break was necessary; I can get behind that. I just have issues with the idea that he's stuck as a shitty human forever and Dora needs to stop giving him chances 'just because their family.' Dude's a fuck-up, self-centered and thoughtless, but at least he's aware of it and trying to change.
I'm glad their speaking again, basically.
If you can't tell, the Dora/Sven sibling relationship hits home for me.
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I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?
All characters polled on the issue (Tai and Hannelore) have voted for forgiveness. Dora forgave him. Dora admitted she was in need of improvement, herself. If she didn't accept her responsibility as blatantly as Sven declared his, she still accepted it, as her entire speech is a refutation of her previous behavior in the issue. I call that good writing, as it would be rather hollow to have her use the same tone and self-criticism that Sven did.
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I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?
I don't think that anyone said it. I think that people are taking Dora's attitude, turning it up to eleven and then assuming that it is Jeph's attitude towards the character as well as the orthodoxy amongst QC fans in general. In other words, they are spending time denouncing a position that only exists in their own imaginations.
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I'm just wondering who said Sven was undeserving of forgiveness. Was that a comment I missed?
I was getting that vibe from Alphawolf55's comment, that's where a lot of the irritation in my last few responses came from, but maybe I was reading it in a different tone than you were. Reading back, it looks very possible.
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I want to point out, that a person doesn't have to be inherently toxic in and of themselves to have a toxic effect on people (or, at least, a rather negative one). Even if they haven't done something "omg horrible evil bastard" level, if they're causing a drain on your emotional wellbeing, it is perfectly natural to want to excise them from your life, either temporarily or permanently.
<snip>
Absolutely. I've been watching "Doc Martin" lately. For anyone who hasn't seen it, he's ethical, dedicated, brilliant, and an emotional bull in a china shop. I've lost track of how many times his love interest has broken up with him, and she's been right every time because he was causing damage.
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Ironically enough, bulls are quite nimble in china shops (http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/bull-in-a-china-shop/).
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Ironically enough, bulls are quite nimble in china shops (http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/bull-in-a-china-shop/).
*squints*
*reads*
*shrugs*
Seems legit.
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Sven, once again, four words: Pioneer Valley Goth Country.
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I know those words but that phrase makes no sense.