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Fun Stuff => ENJOY => Topic started by: Tova on 25 Dec 2015, 00:43

Title: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 25 Dec 2015, 00:43
*** HERE BE SPOILERS ***

There are a ton of people who obviously have seen The Force Awakens and want to talk about it (as do I!), but are sensitive to spoiling the experience of those who haven't seen it, and so bury their posts in that other Star Wars thread in spoiler tags.

"Why not have a dedicated spoiler thread," I thought. I initially thought about just suggesting this, but I just decided to be bold, run the flag up the pole, and see who salutes.

If you think it's a good idea, please post away.

*** HERE BE SPOILERS ***
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 25 Dec 2015, 00:45
Just to kick things off... it feels like every single person I've discussed the movie with thinks that Luke is Rey's parents.

I personally feel, mainly because the Luke theory is SO obvious, that her parents are Jedi sensitives we haven't yet met, who trained with Luke, and were killed by the Knights of Ren, possibly even Kylo himself.

If you have another theory, I'd love to hear it!
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 25 Dec 2015, 01:19
I think that the reason most fans assume Rey is Luke's daughter is because the whole franchise hangs on the chronicles, misadventures and mis-steps of the Skywalker family as well as how these affect the wider galaxy. Having a central Force-sensitive character who isn't associated with the family in some way would be very very odd and would definitely break the running themes of the story.

That said, I could see Rey being something weird and contrived.

Maybe, during his exile on Tatooine, Obi-Wan had an affair with a local girl and Rey is her grand-daughter. By some odd fluke of genetics, the child wasn't Force-sensitive but Rey was. When Ben went postal and the First Order made it clear it was following the Emperor's policy of genocide of Force-sensitives, her parents dumped her on Jakku. Maybe they weren't very nice parents to start with or maybe, in the end, they fooled themselves that dumping her to live or die on a sandheap junkyard planet was somehow 'protecting' her.

FWIW, though, the franchise has always been Skywalker-centric from its earliest conception phase. IF Rey is not a Skywalker, it will be because Ben Solo is ultimately to be redeemed via a star-crossed romance with Rey. I can't see the sequel trilogy ending without a current-generation Skywalker somehow being the hero of the hour.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 25 Dec 2015, 06:42
As far as we know, which admittedly isn't very far, Force sensitivity isn't usually an inherited trait. Our sample size is to small to say for sure though, and a lot of people are hesitant to accept the explanations Uncle George gave us during the prequel movies about the Force. Generally though it seems frowned upon in the Jedi Order for Jedi to form personal attachments with other people, including marriage and children. New padawan are picked up by testing or observing children to find those who are Force sensitive. All of which is a terrible method really, but would indicate that you can't really tell who might have the gift. So running through family lines is the exception, rather than a rule.

The Skywalker family seems to be that exception, at least for now. Anakin, his children and now his grandson at least have all been very strong with the Force. And we have Rey, who seems if not stronger, at least the Force comes more naturally to her than any of the others. She could well be of the line of Skywalker, from either Luke or Leia. But is so, why did nobody mention it to her? Why was she abandoned on Jakku as a child, the same thing that happened to Luke and Leia. You would think they would resist the idea. And why hide one Skywalker heir, but not the other? She's too old for it to have happened because of the massacre of Luke's Jedi school.

One possible explanation would be she's a descendant of a Republic Jedi, one who survived Order 66. She could have been left behind by her parent(s) as they were trying to flee the Empire or bounty hunters. Rey seems of the thought that whoever left her on Jakku was coming back for her, even many years later. Which leads me to think she wasn't cruelly abandoned or sold as a slave. She most likely would have been born after death of the Emperor and the fracturing of the Empire though. So for this theory to work, either Rey's parents/guardians didn't know about it.. which seems unlikely. Or there were people (First Order? Snoke? Remnants of the Inquisitors or another ex-Imperial faction?) who were still hunting Jedi during that time frame, two generations after Order 66.

Alternately her parents may have not been related to the Jedi at all. They could have been people who just abandoned Rey, or left her with family friends to go do something and were never able to return. She could be unrelated to any existing character and just unusually strong in the Force. Of all of the explanations, I would like to see this the most, and I expect it to happen the least. This is Star Wars, they like everything to relate somehow. Having Rey and Kylo somehow related and having to fight against each other is just what they do.

And finally, another thing to keep in mind is that Rey was drawn to Luke/Anakin's old saber in the cantina. When she touched it, she received force flashbacks and heard the voices of both old and young Obi-wan and Yoda. And supposedly Ewan McGregor is signed on to make an appearance in another episode. My money is that she's a secret Skywalker heir, who's mother had a relationship with Luke that ended and he wasn't aware she had a child afterwards. Or that she's related somehow to Obi-Wan.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 25 Dec 2015, 06:42
I think that the reason most fans assume Rey is Luke's daughter is because the whole franchise hangs on the chronicles, misadventures and mis-steps of the Skywalker family as well as how these affect the wider galaxy.

Well, also the fact that the franchise enjoys convenient explanations and solutions.


One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: TRVA123 on 25 Dec 2015, 20:14
Meh, I don't want Rey to be a skywalker. Kylo is enough.

Also, people keep saying that Rey is holding Luke's hand in the flashback where she is abandoned. I just rewatched the movie, she is holding a large alien hand, probably the hand of the guy who runs that trading post.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 25 Dec 2015, 23:23
One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.

On the other hand, if it turns out she was left by Luke, as practically everyone on the planet is predicting, that would hardly be a "big reveal."

I'll take what's behind door #3, thanks. It won't be Luke, but that doesn't have to mean it's someone unimportant.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: SubaruStephen on 26 Dec 2015, 04:39
My theory is that either that Luke never had any kids, OR... Kylo Ren killed them along with all the other students Luke was teaching.


And Ray being the youngest student (or maybe the child of two older students) was either spared by Kylo Ren or hid in the Millennium Falcon to escape the slaughter (and was hiding in the ship until it got stolen and left on Jakku)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 26 Dec 2015, 10:28
One thing tho, about Ray's parents, is that they've set it up as a big reveal now. If it turn out she was just left by some random, unimportant parents, that would feel pretty much like a letdown at this point.

On the other hand, if it turns out she was left by Luke, as practically everyone on the planet is predicting, that would hardly be a "big reveal."

I'll take what's behind door #3, thanks. It won't be Luke, but that doesn't have to mean it's someone unimportant.

If JJ Abrams was directing the second part of this trilogy, I would say Rey being Luke's daughter would be the 'big reveal' for that one. He is kind of known for putting these 'big secrets' in his movies that he mentions are there, but refused to talk about. And universally they have been no surprise to anyone. For Force Awakens it was I guess Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son. Something people have been guessing since the trailers first started appearing. Though most people guessed that Rey and Ren were going to be twins.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Detachable Felix on 26 Dec 2015, 12:06
I'm gonna throw in a curve ball and say she's a descendant of Obi Wan. It would explain why the British accent, if anything :P
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 26 Dec 2015, 12:27
Big reveal: Rey is actually KHAN!

Honestly, I hope that Rey is just a random person with no connection to the original cast.  It's enough that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is Vader's grandson; making Rey a lost Solo--or a surprise Skywalker--just makes the galaxy too small...and we've already seen how small Abrams thinks it is.

Saw it again yesterday, and I'm still annoyed by the way Starkiller Base worked.  At least, just the way the laser seemed to crawl through ordinary space to hit the Hosnian System, with its progress and effect both visible from Maz Kanata's planet in (presumably) an entirely different system.  C'mon, J. J., space is NOT that goddamn small.  It would've been easy to have the weapon fire, show the beam tunneling through hyperspace (and how spectacular would an image like THAT be?), maybe see some weird ripple in realspace visible from various planets along its path, and have a computer console light up in alarm on that ship Finn was about to leave in--and he realizes the source of the hyperspace anomaly as coming from Starkiller Base, which makes him change his mind and run back to the castle to look for Han and Rey.  Maybe have someone shout something about the HoloNet (EU nod!) reporting that the Hosnian system being destroyed.  Heck, anything's better than being able to see a planet blow up from an entirely different planet somewhere else entirely. 

Sorry, rant over.  I have minor nitpicks about the movie, but that's the thing that bothers me the most.  Abrams really has no sense of scale.

Other minor nitpick related to something I predicted about the movie back in spring when the first full-length trailer came out:

Some thoughts I had while watching the trailer for the umpteenth time:

1. According to the news that came out of the Star Wars Celebration panels, the desert planet, Jakku, is the sight of an old battle between the Empire and the Rebels/New Republic, and is littered with wrecked ships as a result.
2. Daisy Ridley's character is a scavenger on Jakku.
3. The two clips we see of the Millennium Falcon in the original teaser and the official trailer also show it on Jakku, engaged  in a dogfight with TIE fighters and fleeing from a single fighter, respectively.
4. The official trailer also shows Daisy and John Boyega's characters running from a TIE fighter attack.
5. The clip of the Falcon shows it flying into the massive engines of a crashed ship--something a pilot, even one as daring as Han Solo, wouldn't be reckless enough to do (especially with a ship the size of the Falcon) unless he was familiar enough with the lay of the land--as Daisy is.
6. The two interior shots of the Falcon show BB-8 peeking around a door and, later, Han commenting to Chewbacca that they're "home."

So it's probably safe to assume that the Falcon was damaged in the Battle of Jakku and abandoned, and was later found by Daisy's character, who managed to fix it up and get it in working condition (as much as can be expected) by the time John Boyega's character comes along and they're forced to flee from the Imperial forces that are chasing after him--meaning Han and Chewie don't step foot on the ship until much later in the movie.

That's probably been obvious to everyone else from the beginning, but hey, I thought it was a cool idea.  I bet I'm right, too.  And how great would it be to see Daisy's character scrounging for parts on Jakku, then walking into a makeshift spaceship hanger where an aged and battered, but still beautiful, Millennium Falcon is sitting there waiting for action?

Hey, I was kinda right!  Still wish we had seen the Falcon before Rey decided to steal it, even briefly--either have her working on it in secret, or, more in keeping with her status as an indentured scavenger in the movie, fixing it up for that junk trader in exchange for food.  Even a throwaway line would've worked:

Unkar Plutt: "For these things you brought me, I'll give you...one half-portion."
Rey: "Last week they were a half-portion each!"
UP: "That was before you damaged that YT-1300 you were supposed to fix."
Rey: "You've added so many extra parts, it can't be fixed."
UP: "Hmph.  What about the droid?"
Rey: "What about him?"
UP: "I'll pay you for him...sixty portions."

Something as small as that to establish its presence instead of having it just show up out of the blue would've been cool, but it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 26 Dec 2015, 13:42
I was going to respond to the rest, but this shipping nonsense makes me ill.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 26 Dec 2015, 13:55
Yeah, sorry, got a bit carried away.  Will remove.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 26 Dec 2015, 14:25
Thank you! I appreciate that.

I actually liked the thing where the Falcon kind of appeared "out of the blue". It allowed for some small amount of surprise even though we knew it was going to turn up.

I get what you're saying about the crawling laser thing, but to be honest I was kind of annoyed that there was a death star at all. Of all the repeted elements of the film, that was the one that kind of bugged me. I want to write in and say "PLEASE NO MORE DEATH STARS." Surely by now, the empire/first order would have figured out that they're on a losing strategy building death stars with increasingly-easy-to-blow-up critically vulnerable spots.

As for Rey, I would love it if her parents were unconnected to the original cast. For the reasons you've listed and more. The whole thing with r2-d2 being involved in the prequels and c3po being built by anakin for no obvious reason etc etc etc. Enough already.

I'm going for a second viewing later today! I really want to watch Rey's visions closely this time. I couldn't really take it all in first time round.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 26 Dec 2015, 14:41
I actually liked the thing where the Falcon kind of appeared "out of the blue". It allowed for some small amount of surprise even though we knew it was going to turn up.

I get what you're saying, but I also like the idea of Rey walking into a starship hanger to reveal the Falcon and doing a bit of repair work as part of her daily routine.  Less of a surprise, sure, and maybe it would've slowed the beginning of the movie down a bit, but establishing her character as having a connection to the Falcon would've been nice.  Either way, I'm sure most fans were expecting Han and Chewie to still have it in this movie, so I'm glad the filmmakers decided to mix things up and separate them from the ship at first.

Quote
I get what you're saying about the crawling laser thing, but to be honest I was kind of annoyed that there was a death star at all. Of all the repeted elements of the film, that was the one that kind of bugged me. I want to write in and say "PLEASE NO MORE DEATH STARS." Surely by now, the empire/first order would have figured out that they're on a losing strategy building death stars with increasingly-easy-to-blow-up critically vulnerable spots.

Oh, I agree.  The Same-Superweapon-As-Last-Time-Only-BIGGER! thing is getting a bit old.  The folks at Lucasfilm couldn't think of a threat that didn't involve a Big Scary Gun this time?  I liked Han's nonchalance about it--"So it's bigger.  Can we blow it up?"--and I liked that the film made the attack on the base more about the characters than the starship battle this time (especially the Finn vs. Ren and Rey vs. Ren saber battles--and how great were those duels?  Better than any of that choreographed shit from the Prequels), but I really, really, REALLY hope they don't try to introduce a Starkiller II for Episode IX...
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 26 Dec 2015, 18:15
YES, the duels were awesome. The reason the duel in the Empire Strikes Back was so gripping was not the choreography, it was the emotional context. I'm very glad that we seem to be getting back to that and away from the acrobatics.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Pilchard123 on 27 Dec 2015, 02:33
The duels were good, but I was expecting someone to declare that they had 'the high ground'.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 27 Dec 2015, 07:10
I'm gonna throw in a curve ball and say she's a descendant of Obi Wan. It would explain why the British accent, if anything :P

TIL Obi Wan is Britsh :^)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 27 Dec 2015, 18:08
Kylo Ren's Emo Teenager Twitter account (https://twitter.com/kylor3n?lang=en).

(https://nerdygirlom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/emo-kylo-ren2.jpg?w=529&h=239)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 27 Dec 2015, 19:05
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12392060_10153942734735815_4299400935720539124_n.jpg?oh=fc1d67bb2e3d649b0a7d7d14b256f521&oe=570184AF)

Btw, why didn't anyone link this thread in the other one? I only just found it :roll:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: de_la_Nae on 28 Dec 2015, 17:26
Yes, the hand in Rey's flashback is Plutt's; his voice too.

Heavy implication from Ren's mental interrogation of Rey that she dreams of a planet that is probably the one Luke's hiding on.

Calling it now: Rey is Snoke's daughter.

Also while I'm wildly calling things, Finn is Luke's son.

I need another viewing to be sure, but I get the impression that Luke left the missing map piece with the old guy, not that he found it.

Still a big question as to what that damned map is ACTUALLY supposed to be to; remember, the Order scavenged most of it from the old Imperial records, and those sure as hell weren't pointing to Luke.

Where's Lando?

Want more Phasma, though she's probably pretty dead.

But WHO is the old guy in the beginning?

Pretty sure both Finn's duels start the same.

Rey better kick Luke's ass.
Poe/Finn, a girl can dream damnit.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 28 Dec 2015, 17:56
Puffin for life.

Also, no way Phasma's dead.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 28 Dec 2015, 19:11
Hey!  We're not allowed to discuss our favorite ships!

Although Puffin is practically canon by now, so I think that's okay.

(Seriously, Finn and Poe are the Han and Leia of this trilogy, so it has to happen.)

Pretty sure Snoke isn't human.  I'd almost guess Muun, which IIRC is the species Darth Plagueis belonged to, but I doubt they would bring back a character mentioned in one scene in Return of the Sith as the main villain.  Most people wouldn't remember him.

Phasma definitely isn't dead.  Gwendoline Christie and Lupita Nyong'o were both tragically underused, so I hope both get to come back--Lupita as a different, non-CGI character, though.  Phasma would be a good recurring minor villain, one who keeps on Finn's trail throughout the rest of the trilogy, although I don't think they were given enough interaction in TFA.  I would've liked a short scene in the beginning, after the Star Destroyer came into view (and how great was that shot, keeping with the opening shots of each film in the original trilogy but doing something different with it), but before the raid on Jakku, just a short clip of Phasma preparing the troops for the assault, pointing out to trooper FN-2187 that with his high marks she expected great things from his first mission, which would've contrasted nicely with the dressing-down she gave him after his return to the ship in shock.  But by now the tiny scenes I would've added to the movie for character development would've brought the story to a crawl, so it's probably a good thing I had no part in making this film.

And I don't think Lor San Tekka is meant to be important.  He just had the map, gave it to Poe, died, won't be brought up again.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: de_la_Nae on 29 Dec 2015, 02:48
I'm not wrong, he didn't have a name spoken in the theatrical cut, right? Anyway, I'd sort of assumed that he was supposed to be a minor character from the Middle Trilogy, but I suppose not.

Dollars to donuts that it'll come up later, though. IF they bring up how Maz got the saber, which was presumably lost with Luke's hand on Bespin.

When Finn was introduced on the battlefield, I thought for a strong moment that he was going to be a recurring antagonist: the Blood-stained Stormtrooper, hunting Poe Dameron relentlessly through the trilogy.

I'm definitely not unhappy with Finn, but part of me wants that still.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 29 Dec 2015, 03:07
Re.: Phasma
The Star Wars franchise has a long history of massively building up and hyping characters that turn out to be non-speaking background extras who appear, at most, in one scene for a matter of a few seconds. Yet, for some reason, Lucasfilm considered them quite important with plenty of pre-release build-up. Previous examples include Dengar (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dengar) and Aurra Sing (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aurra_Sing).

Phasma falls into the same stereotype, although, atypically, she has spoken lines in the film. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we never see her again but that she retains high status in TFA merchandising and other spin-offs.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 29 Dec 2015, 04:46
(http://i.imgur.com/YJPLU2X.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 29 Dec 2015, 09:31
I don't think Captain Phasma is dead, or just a throw away character. I get the feeling that she's going to be the Boba Fett of this trilogy. A barely used but wildly popular character. Unfortunately, I think that Disney is trying to MAKE her that character, which could blow up in their faces. They cast currently popular actress in the role. She's been a big part of both the marketing and merchandising for the movie. She wears a visually distinct uniform among a group of characters who's defining characteristic is being faceless, interchangeable mooks. She interacted several times with other main characters, and her eventual fate was left undetermined. While I felt she was very underused in this movie, and the way she just painfully went along with Finn and Han after being easily captured was pathetic. But it could all set up for a big arc of a minor recurring villain looking for revenge/redemption.

Lor San Tekka I don't think we'll ever really find out who he was. A friend of the Skywalker/Solo family would be my guess. Someone entrusted with the final piece of the location to the map where Luke was going to be. As a guess, I'd say he's an ex-Imperial or member of the old Rebel Alliance who had access to Imperial records. He stole that map fragment, and offered the information to Luke as a place to go, or maybe because something important was there. Luke left him and R2 with instructions to turn the info over to his family when the time was right and he was needed again, or some such. All of what happened with the timing was to convenient to be coincidence. I think Luke forsaw this. Which is why in the end he didn't look surprised when Rey showed up with his old lightsaber.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 29 Dec 2015, 15:15
Lor San Tekka I don't think we'll ever really find out who he was. A friend of the Skywalker/Solo family would be my guess. Someone entrusted with the final piece of the location to the map where Luke was going to be. As a guess, I'd say he's an ex-Imperial or member of the old Rebel Alliance who had access to Imperial records. He stole that map fragment, and offered the information to Luke as a place to go, or maybe because something important was there. Luke left him and R2 with instructions to turn the info over to his family when the time was right and he was needed again, or some such. All of what happened with the timing was to convenient to be coincidence. I think Luke forsaw this. Which is why in the end he didn't look surprised when Rey showed up with his old lightsaber.

It was a jedi temple of some kind, wasn't it?

P.S. It seems Captain Phasma will be back: http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Episode-8-Feature-Whole-Lot-More-One-Side-Character-101547.html
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Thrillho on 31 Dec 2015, 09:05
So, I'm not sure I can properly sew together the thoughts I've had about the film.

I watched it with my girlfriend, who detests Harrison Ford, so she left pretty happy.

I love the new characters. Slightly archetypal, yes, but entertaining nonetheless. I don't know the actor who played Poe very well but I was pleased to see him nonetheless. Just enough recognition for me to go 'oh it's that guy!'

But I'll say this much. I wanted more Luke. Mark Hamill got second to top billing for that shit. However, his reveal at the end, that moment, that was a real shivers-down-spine thing. And he looks fucking BAD. ASS. with his hood and grey long hair and beard and shit. I really don't want him getting killed off as well.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 31 Dec 2015, 13:14
Does she hate Harrison Ford as a person or an actor?

Re: Oscar Isaac (Poe), I've seen him in a few things, but I only recently realized I first saw him in Drive of all things.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 01 Jan 2016, 00:50
George Lucas has strongly criticised The Force Awakens (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/31/movies/george-lucas-criticizes-latest-star-wars-installment.html) as being 'retro', unoriginal and derivative, noting that it rehashes many of the things that he dislikes about the original trilogy. He has attacked it as a 'fan movie' and accused Disney of treating 'his children' (the Star Wars franchise) as 'white slaves'. He has subsequently apologised for that remark (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3380832/May-remorse-Grovelling-Star-Wars-filmmaker-George-Lucas-apologizes-comparing-Disney-white-slavers-backtracks-slamming-retro-Force-Awakens.html) and has insisted that he likes The Force Awakens.

In the interview, he noted that his involvement in The Force Awakens ended when he realised that Disney were not receptive to his artistic and story ideas. It is obvious that this hurt him deeply and he describes it as being like 'a break-up' with the films being the children lost to the other spouse's custody.

Given how artistically rubbish Lucasfilm's most recent works were before the sale, I'm not surprised that Disney refused to let Lucas have too much input in the new Star Wars films. Lucas himself actually acknowledged the likely cause in the original interview where he acknowledged that his increasingly 'experimental' film-making ideas were not commercially viable. That said, it is clear that he really doesn't really have any liking for what the viewing public, including the very audience that made him rich, want from Star Wars. He considers the lacklustre prequel trilogy as high art and the blockbuster original trilogy as highly flawed.

So, yeah, Disney were probably right to cut him out; he had nothing useful to contribute. He's made his lack of understanding and dislike of what the fan-base wanted pretty clear. For all their (near innumerable) faults as a corporation, Disney at least know how to make a film that the fans want to see.

I'd love to read the threatening letter that Disney's lawyers sent to him to get him to U-turn so totally within four hours of the original interview being broadcast though! :-D


[edit]
Fixed a mass of typos and tagging errors
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 01 Jan 2016, 01:45
George Lucas has strongly criticised The Force Awakens (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/31/movies/george-lucas-criticizes-latest-star-wars-installment.html) as being 'retro', unoriginal and derivative, noting that it rehashes many of the things that he dislikes about the original trilogy.

It doesn't suprise me to learn that he apparently dislikes all the elements of the original trilogy that its fans loved.

I watched it with my girlfriend, who detests Harrison Ford, so she left pretty happy.

Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Jan 2016, 06:35
You see.. I don't see what he considers so fantastic about the prequels. I love Star Wars. I mean love it. It's one of my most favorite franchise ever, if not the top. And I will be the first to admit that it is far from high art. It's all highly derivative from other sources, pretty cheesy, often uses scale to the absurd and has plot holes big enough to drive a star destroyer through.. but I love it. The prequels... while I don't hate on them the way some fans do are not as good as 4-6 in my eyes. A big part of it was that some of the actors were just terrible and gave flat performances. And there was no chemistry between Anakin and Padme, even though the story kept insisting their was. And let us please get away from the creepiness of an 8 year old and 16 year old falling in love at first sight and flirting badly?

The writing though was often bad.. awkward and not making much sense. The times the movies are best is when the action scenes are happening. And at their worst when they are talking about trade federations and sand... So to me the best parts of the prequels are when it calls back to the original three... I guess Lucas wanted to do a political intrigue movie instead? George may have created the franchise that I love so much, but it's clear it was a fluke on his part, and if he were to do it now I wouldn't give it a second glance. So I'm glad his hands are off Star Wars at this point. With Rebels and Force Awakens I think that Star Wars is in good hands with Disney. If nothing else, they know what the fans enjoy about the setting. And it's not midichlorians and trade franchise disputes with slapstick robots.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Thrillho on 01 Jan 2016, 08:50
Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.

Precisely so.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Jan 2016, 10:11
Lucas apparently presented Disney with a treatment for his own vision of the sequel trilogy when they bought Lucasfilm, but they apparently scrapped it and went with their own ideas.  Which leads to the questions:

1. What was Lucas's story about?
2. And why the hell didn't he make them himself, if his ideas were (supposedly) so much better?

A few years ago, before the new trilogy was announced, I wondered why Lucas didn't just remake Episodes IV-VI entirely.  After all, his complaint about the original trilogy was that the special effects he wanted to use weren't possible at the time, hence all his tweaking with the films since, but there's only so many edits you can make to an existing film before it just looks terrible (see: Jabba the Hutt in A New Hope), so if he really wanted to have a saga he could be proud of, he should just start over and do it his way.  And leave the original stuff for us undeserving fans.

Looking back now, I'm glad he doesn't have that option anymore.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 01 Jan 2016, 12:44
Lucas lost credibility with the Prequels and, as far as I'm concerned, has lost all right to criticise what Abrams has done, and I'm not really a big fan of JarJar Abrams anyway considering what he did to Trek.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 01 Jan 2016, 16:30
George may have created the franchise that I love so much, but it's clear it was a fluke on his part, and if he were to do it now I wouldn't give it a second glance.

I can clearly recall the precise moment when I made this very realisation.

I had just finished watching Empire Strikes Back special edition... and was feeling a bit aggrieved by the changes Lucas made, when I decided to watch some of the bonus material. There was an interview with George Lucas, and they were discussing the changes that they made to the Wampa scene in the cave. I had enjoyed that scene in the past, because Luke is hanging there in the ice and it is clear that there is some ... creature ... that could devour him at any moment, but you don't get to see it, only hear it.

So I was interested to hear what he said about this scene. I don't recall exactly, so I'll have to paraphrase, but he basically said: "I know that it is technically better fillm making the way it was originally shot, but I really wanted to see the wampa."

Somehow, he knew the original was better, but wanted to change it anyway?

The conclusion I came to at the time was that George Lucas was a successful director only by luck, but since then I've decided that he simply is a better director when working with technological and editorial constraints that force him to be truly creative.

Is she happy because Ford won't be in future Star Wars films? That's the only interpretation I can think of that makes any sense.

Precisely so.

How anyone could possibly enjoy Star Wars in spite of hating Harrison Ford when he is one of the major reasons for the films' success is intriguing.

Lucas lost credibility with the Prequels and, as far as I'm concerned, has lost all right to criticise what Abrams has done, and I'm not really a big fan of JarJar Abrams anyway considering what he did to Trek.

I am not a Trek fan at all, so I didn't approach Star Wars with any Abrams baggage, for lack of a better word. I get the impression that some people's impressions of the film have been a bit coloured by their reaction to what he's done in the past.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Jan 2016, 07:22
She largely prefers the prequels to the originals. She finds Solo as a character irritating also, because of his cavalier attitude.

Also, another thing I loved - the insanely random cameo from the two stars of the Raid movies, which are two of my all-time favourite films.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Jan 2016, 15:52
She largely prefers the prequels to the originals.
Obligatory "what do you see in her?" :p
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Jan 2016, 15:59
I and III are underrated.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Jan 2016, 16:02
This is true, and I'd put III over VI, but over Empire?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 03 Jan 2016, 09:51
Re: all the discussion about Phasma -

Because Finn was unconscious at the end of the movie, that their storylines are going to intertwine again. Part of me has a feeling he's going to be a little confused when he wakes up and all that stormtrooper brainwashing might come back OR that she's just going to be like Boba Fett and just have an obsession with finding Finn and correcting his beahvior.

A lot of this movie, while awesome, was based in properly introducing the characters and left a lot of questions unanswered. It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor. "Where's Luke?! Oh hi kids, you do some stuff. Oh hey, we found Luke."
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 03 Jan 2016, 12:26
It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor.

Welcome to Star Wars. You should try the original trilogy too, it's cool.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Pilchard123 on 03 Jan 2016, 14:36
Re: all the discussion about Phasma -

Because Finn was unconscious at the end of the movie, that their storylines are going to intertwine again. Part of me has a feeling he's going to be a little confused when he wakes up and all that stormtrooper brainwashing might come back OR that she's just going to be like Boba Fett and just have an obsession with finding Finn and correcting his beahvior.

A lot of this movie, while awesome, was based in properly introducing the characters and left a lot of questions unanswered. It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor. "Where's Luke?! Oh hi kids, you do some stuff. Oh hey, we found Luke."

I don't know if I've already said it, but it felt like this one was mostly a set-up for the next (at least) two.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jan 2016, 17:56
If Kylo Ren was that fucking powerful while not fully trained, I'm definitely excited about seeing what his ultimate limits are.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 03 Jan 2016, 20:01
I don't know if I've already said it, but it felt like this one was mostly a set-up for the next (at least) two.

I definitely agree. I'm happy with the movie, don't get me wrong, but I'm tired of seeing entire movies that are set ups for other movies. You can set up things while also telling a good story.

It was fun, it was amusing, the battles were good, but the story itself was very minor.

Welcome to Star Wars. You should try the original trilogy too, it's cool.

I've seen them! Multiple times! Thank you for your useless comment! :roll:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 03 Jan 2016, 20:34
Welcome to sarcasm! I can dish out as much as you like.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 04 Jan 2016, 19:21
(http://i.imgur.com/v6Azr88.png)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jan 2016, 19:22
"Pretty sneaky, sis!"
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 04 Jan 2016, 22:30
How do you aim a weapon made out of a planet? Do you just wait until it rotates to the position you want? And that doesn't take into account the fact that space is three dimensional. What about the z-axis?

[Edit]
Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 04 Jan 2016, 23:09
It was that ol' standby  THE PLOT DEVICE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpm79BNB0c
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jan 2016, 23:48
Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.

I read somewhere that they made a conscious policy not to show the Death Star using its hyperdrive as it would disrupt viewers' sense that it is moon-sized. Apparently, we have an instinct that big=slow and showing The Magic 8-Ball O' Doom going to lightspeed breaks the illusion of scale.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 04 Jan 2016, 23:59
Ironically, this destroys the sense of galactic scale and makes the fictional universe feel smaller than it should.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 03:11
That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jan 2016, 03:21
That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.

It never ceases to amaze me just how fast hyperdrive is. The Millennium Falcon (which, admittedly, manages the upper end of FTL velocities, in-universe) goes from Tattooine in the Outer Rim to a core system (a distance of tens of thousands of light years) in a matter of a few hours at best. Even a lumbering giant like the Death Star 1 manages the flight from Alderaan to Yavin so quickly that the Rebels only have a few hours at best lead time to prepare their counter-attack before it arrives in-system.

No wonder so many Warsies rag Trekkers off about their "snails' pace" warp drive! :wink:

Seriously, almost everything about how Starkiller was presented in The Force Awakens was messed up. There were lots of better ways in in-universe technical terms for it to be portrayed. However, there is one thing J J Abrams is good at and that is visual spectacle. He certainly chose the method that looked most dramatic.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 03:41
That might be intentional to make the coincidences more palatable. Also I think it all takes place in a single galaxy.
Galaxies are 10s, if not 100s, of thousands of light years across.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 03:44
Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 03:47
Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
Han Solo refers to making the jump to light speed.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jan 2016, 03:58
Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

Some Warsie physicists have suggested that an intergalactic flight at observed hyperdrive speeds would take no more than several months, including several stop-offs to take navigational references and correct their course. That's why the Outbound Project (a crewed intergalactic probe ship in the dying days of the Old Republic) was possible.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.

There is some question about the nature of hyperspace as it has never been explained in a canon source. What we do know is that it is travel through a realm close enough to the 'real' universe that objects like the gravity wells of stars and planets as well as stellar eruptions like supernovae are navigational hazards.

I wonder if it is something like the Mass Effect FTL drive where the drive creates a 'bubble' around the ship where it is not affected by the wider space-time continuum. Whilst travelling in normal space, it is thus isolated from inertia and relativistic effects and allowing it to 'snap' to its destination at a speed determined by the energy of the bubble. Gravity wells, being space-time topographical distortions, disrupt the structure of the bubble and make it unstable, potentially causing the ship to become affected by relativity again and forcing it sub-light.

The best assumption that I've seen about speeds is that the 'point five past lightspeed' that Han specifies as the Falcon's FTL cruising speed is a logarithmic scale where zero is lightspeed and one is infinite velocity (like the revised Warp 10 in Star Trek).
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 04:17
Well, yeah, I know, but that's nothing compared to the distance between galaxies.

@Benergy - Does hyperdrive go FTL or just take a shortcut? I thought it was the latter.
Han Solo refers to making the jump to light speed.
They might be able to reach light speed, but not surpass it.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 04:26
Which is why you either have to bend space or shift to a different plane of existence where distances are reduced. Interstellar travel by necessity would have to involve reducing the distance traveled since even at the speed of light travel would to 100s or 1000s of years.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 04:33
Right, that's my point. They can't travel FTL, but they don't need to because hyperspace.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 05:09
The problem is that they actually reference going to light speed or past it in the movies. Which can be handwaved as poor scripting by persons who don't understand how physics works, of course.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 05:14
Quote from: something I made up
Han Solo: I wasn't there for you when I should have been, and for that I'm sorry. But I'm still your father, and I love you.
Kylo Ren: I know (stabs)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jan 2016, 05:43
In RL physics, there is no mathematical reason why an object can't travel faster than light (there is even some disputed evidence that there is a particle that travels faster than light and backwards in time, the Tachyon). The trick is accelerating past light-speed, which General Relativity specifies requires infinite energy. Most sci-fi either hand-waves it off or comes up with a tech-babble work-around.

Star Trek has an entire chapter in the show bible dedicated to the subject. Star Wars just chooses the hand-wave route and focusses instead on character interactions and action scenes.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Jan 2016, 06:45
Well they never showed the Death Star moving at all. But they did talk about 'setting course' so clearly it does. The first two super lasers were powerful, but still direct fire weapons. They had to be in the system they wanted to attack, and move around planets. Hence the whole count down thing in episode 4 where the Rebels were racing to blow it up before it could destroy Yavin 4. So it moved and had to use hyperspace. It was just so big and moved so slow it seemed stationary unless you were viewing it from very far away.

Starkiller Base through throws out any kind of physics or concept of distances in space. It could fire tracking energy beams that would travel across interstellar distances, curving to hit their targets and destroy them in a big, dramatic group shot. Something that would never happen. You never see five planets close enough together to be visible in one shot. Even if they are all part of the same system. And that's without even getting into the ridiculousness of the power supply and the likelyhood they would need to relocate every time they fired.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 06:50
They call it a "hyperspace weapon" so I guess it is supposed to shoot through hyperspace, but the visuals did not back that up. One of my biggest complaints about the film was the complete and utter lack of understanding of scale on the part of the filmmakers.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 05 Jan 2016, 07:07
How do you aim a weapon made out of a planet? Do you just wait until it rotates to the position you want? And that doesn't take into account the fact that space is three dimensional. What about the z-axis?

[Edit]
Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.
maybe they used the force

(http://img.ifcdn.com/images/ee0f543e28964de7ed4f341f899d1c536c0af2a56aae9d89b1419ed75f31f369_3.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 08:30
Maybe I should just accept "The Force" as the default response to any unanswered questions in the film series
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 05 Jan 2016, 09:00
Like in Xena... a wizard did it.

(http://i.imgur.com/8acv2w6.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/HZcF4L2.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/6dEdyXf.gif)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jan 2016, 10:01
(http://s22.postimg.org/weawv9r8h/FB_IMG_1452016419312.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jan 2016, 13:41
Maybe I should just accept "The Force" as the default response to any unanswered questions in the film series
Randall: I wonder why the light sabers only go yea high, what stops them from going on forever?
Dante: I dunno, the Force?
Randall: That's your answer for everything!

(I think it was that order, it's from Clerks: tAS, which may be the best thing Kevin Smith has ever done)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: ChaoSera on 06 Jan 2016, 02:41
Travel between galaxies is totally possible in Star Wars. Although it is no longer canon, there is an invasion from a species outside of the galaxy, taking place during the time of the New Republic. I forgot the details, though, and am too lazy to look it up right now.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jan 2016, 04:17
Although it is no longer canon
I find it interesting how quick people are to accept what is and isn't canon just on Disney's word. I never really considered any of the books canon (at least not movie-level canon), but Disney can't make those books not matter. At most they can say that the old books were their own canon, but they're still Star Wars, and the movies were never bound to the books anyway.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 06 Jan 2016, 04:35
Although it is no longer canon

I find it interesting how quick people are to accept what is and isn't canon just on Disney's word. I never really considered any of the books canon (at least not movie-level canon), but Disney can't make those books not matter. At most they can say that the old books were their own canon, but they're still Star Wars, and the movies were never bound to the books anyway.

Purely FWIW, I didn't always accept Lucasfilm's word on what was and was not canon. I've long preferred Timothy Zahn's version of the Clone Wars - an uprising by the Republic's clone army against its masters that started a 'we want more security' societal movement leading to the rise of the Emperor - as being a more fascinating narrative possibility than the movie canon Civil War against the Separatists.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 06 Jan 2016, 19:14
Why Lupita Nyong’o Didn’t Want To Be Seen In “Star Wars” (http://www.buzzfeed.com/kelleylcarter/lupita-nyongo-didnt-want-you-to-see-her-face-in-star-wars?utm_term=.maB3d7Zk9q#.yyQbxdrGJp)

I was originally disappointed that Lupita Nyong'o was playing a CGI character, but I didn't realize that it was her decision.  Disappointment rescinded.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Jan 2016, 22:48
Can I give her a standing ovation for that article?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Jan 2016, 08:41
So people are suggesting Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter. If that's the case, why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 07 Jan 2016, 08:50
Is there any evidence to suggest Obi Wan has children?

(Outside the extended universe)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Jan 2016, 08:52
None at all! Doesn't mean he doesn't, though.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 07 Jan 2016, 08:55
So people are suggesting Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter. If that's the case, why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/rPU8u6vzUGGZ2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Jan 2016, 09:06
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/12509883_1141397742544871_4538291209866303121_n.jpg?oh=1894e9a72b3806eec577324b764a8ae8&oe=5745D463)

Edit: I kind of want a BB-8 giving a "thumbs up" tattoo.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 07 Jan 2016, 10:11
(http://i.imgur.com/78jothj.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Jan 2016, 14:02
(https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/s750x750/sh0.08/e35/12534354_1682377578705652_302882143_n.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: hedgie on 07 Jan 2016, 14:07
Nothing like Wikipedia vandalism by whatever they're calling the Empire now.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 07 Jan 2016, 14:14
Kylo must have WiFi at the hospital where he's recovering.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 07 Jan 2016, 14:16
Probably The Dark Side Net
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 07 Jan 2016, 17:56
I am altering the wiki. Pray I do not alter it any further.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 08 Jan 2016, 10:32
Why Lupita Nyong’o Didn’t Want To Be Seen In “Star Wars” (http://www.buzzfeed.com/kelleylcarter/lupita-nyongo-didnt-want-you-to-see-her-face-in-star-wars?utm_term=.maB3d7Zk9q#.yyQbxdrGJp)

I was originally disappointed that Lupita Nyong'o was playing a CGI character, but I didn't realize that it was her decision.  Disappointment rescinded.

I think she's becoming one of my new favorite people...
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Masterpiece on 08 Jan 2016, 11:27
How is Kylo a wuss for being defeated by Rey? He was hit by a direct shot from Chewbacca's Bowcaster and managed to walk away barely flinching.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: sitnspin on 08 Jan 2016, 12:37
And he was bleeding out the whole fight and still almost won. He had her on the run until right up at the end.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 08 Jan 2016, 13:10
Also he was arrogant as fuck, as well as seemingly not trying to kill her, for recruiting purposes.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 09 Jan 2016, 12:28
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/1462917_10153188588877397_6928215781338276545_n.jpg?oh=3246914da8f5b4fe61d8619d885a201f&oe=56FD8C92)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Jan 2016, 12:32
Never thought of it before I saw this, but of course Chewie helped raise Ben. So sad :(
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Jan 2016, 21:35
On a happier note:

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uwYsAmbb--/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/m4jeggfouypusz2pcmtr.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: maxusy3k on 10 Jan 2016, 07:13
Saw this a second time yesterday and noticed a couple of things I missed in my first viewing;

Rey in her (cabin? shack? nest?) has a doll of a person wearing a rebellion flightsuit. Possibly a clue as to who her parents might be?

In her vision when she touches the lightsaber, one of the last things I heard among the mess is Obi-Wan (with a very Alec Guinness style voice) quite calmly saying "Rey..."

I suspect she's going to turn out to be related to Luke (because the Star Wars universe has always been incredibly small, in movie canon) but hearing the theories about her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter seem plausible I guess.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jan 2016, 08:47
I honestly don't see any indication from previous movies that Obi-Wan has kids, but there's nothing making it explicitly impossible, so I guess it could work. But if Rey is Obi-Wan's granddaughter, then I still stand by this:
why can't she be the daughter of Obi-Wan's daughter and Luke Skywalker?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jan 2016, 09:45
The only official romantic relationship with which Obi-Wan is linked is with another Jedi, Siri Tachi, who died during the Clone Wars, about 3 years before Luke and Leia were born.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: retrosteve on 10 Jan 2016, 12:52
1. What was Lucas's story about?
2. And why the hell didn't he make them himself, if his ideas were (supposedly) so much better?


A theory I subscribe to is that Lucas is a great ideas guy, but (like most writers) he needs editing and co-writers to achieve greatness.  So Lucas + Leigh Brackett + Lawrence Kasdan => The Empire Strikes Back

Lucas + a few yes-men => Jar-Jar Binks.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Jan 2016, 14:03
In her vision when she touches the lightsaber, one of the last things I heard among the mess is Obi-Wan (with a very Alec Guinness style voice) quite calmly saying "Rey..."

I have read that they snipped that bit of dialogue from Alec Guinness saying "afraid." Pretty neat.

At the very end of the flashback, there is a bit more from Obi-Wan: "You've taken your first step..."
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 10 Jan 2016, 14:05
I have to agree with that.  Rumor has it it was his then wife who tended to rein him in when he got too .... ebullient, hence the Original Trilogy.  Cue several years later when he and she had parted ways and you get the Prequel Trilogy.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jan 2016, 18:26
Actually there was a Mandalorian named Satine that shared romantic attractions with Obi-Wan. However it never went any further than them declaring love for each other, since he was a Jedi and she was a politician. (Sound familiar...) She died during the Clone Wars series, so there's no chance they got together after the fall of the Jedi.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jan 2016, 19:12
The only official romantic relationship with which Obi-Wan is linked is with another Jedi, Siri Tachi, who died during the Clone Wars, about 3 years before Luke and Leia were born.
"official"?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 10 Jan 2016, 20:02
I'm guessing it's from the books. Honestly, I don't know what Disney is considering canon for the new trilogy, so... :-\ I don't know what is and isn't "official" in terms of story, because, well, it's been taken on by a lot of people now.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 10 Jan 2016, 20:09
I'm guessing it's from the books. Honestly, I don't know what Disney is considering canon for the new trilogy, so... :-\ I don't know what is and isn't "official" in terms of story, because, well, it's been taken on by a lot of people now.

nope, clone wars TV show, which is still canon.

Pretty much the original movies, rebels, clone wars, and a few concepts here and there are canon after the Disney acquisition. Everything else is no longer canon.  An example of a concept is Darth Revan did exist according to the new canon but the events that took place in KotOR are not.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jan 2016, 20:22
I find it easiest to consider the movies canon, and everything else secondary canon.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Jan 2016, 21:07
(http://i0.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/Star-Wars-Canon-Timeline.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Jan 2016, 06:24
Sure, if you want.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 11 Jan 2016, 10:49
I'm guessing it's from the books. Honestly, I don't know what Disney is considering canon for the new trilogy, so... :-\ I don't know what is and isn't "official" in terms of story, because, well, it's been taken on by a lot of people now.

nope, clone wars TV show, which is still canon.

Pretty much the original movies, rebels, clone wars, and a few concepts here and there are canon after the Disney acquisition. Everything else is no longer canon.  An example of a concept is Darth Revan did exist according to the new canon but the events that took place in KotOR are not.

Ah, OK. I need to watch that. I heard it was good, I just never got around to it.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 11 Jan 2016, 10:58
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Jan 2016, 13:03
I recommend both the Clone Wars and Rebels. Both are awesome shows that fill in a lot of important gaps between movies.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 11 Jan 2016, 14:13
Clone wars was rough to start for me.  Very cheesy.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Jan 2016, 14:21
I've only seen the movie-pilot, and while I've heard it gets better, that was atrocious. Also no amount of Disney execs are going to make me think non-movie stuff is movie-level canon.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 12 Jan 2016, 12:23
I respect your headcanonicity.  :-D
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 15 Jan 2016, 21:43
Something I came across on tumblr and hadn't really thought about before:

Quote
I was just thinking – and please, correct me if I’m forgetting something relevant – but does Finn even know about Rey and her Force-sensitivity / Jedi potential?

He was outside the temple when she had the vision and talk with Maz, he got knocked out before she picked up the lightsaber to fight Kylo Ren. …Is he going to wake up in the infirmary and receive a huge shock when she’s not only gone, but gone to train with Luke freaking Skywalker?

(and then my brain starts wondering if he’d feel a little uneasy about it despite himself, because his experience thus far with Force users is all through Kylo Ren and Snoke and mind control tricks are maybe a little too close to reconditioning – I just think it would add a really interesting tension to their relationship)
(Source (http://sackett-and-katz.tumblr.com/post/137359024372/i-was-just-thinking-and-please-correct-me-if))

!!!!!

I need to see this movie again.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 16 Jan 2016, 13:12
Clone wars was rough to start for me.  Very cheesy.

I've only seen the movie-pilot, and while I've heard it gets better, that was atrocious. Also no amount of Disney execs are going to make me think non-movie stuff is movie-level canon.

Pretty much any episode centered around the Clones is amazing, the rest run the gambit from amazing to eh. Though episodes with Jar-Jar and the Droid Square are down right awful.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Jan 2016, 07:39
I'm going to go with no, Finn isn't aware by the end of the movie that Rey is Force sensitive.  From the time she started to find out about it, she was on the run/being captured by Ren and then escaping from Starkiller base. There was the time when they were reunited till he was taking out in the fight with Ren where she could have mentioned it. But they were quite busy, and it was never done on screen, so I'm going with he doesn't know. That said, I'm sure when he wakes up people will explain where Rey has gone and why. He might have an initial freak out, but I'm sure Leia or someone will set him straight that Luke and the Jedi are not like Snoke and Ren.

That said, I don't think Rey and Finn will see each other again in the first, maybe second act of part 8. It's looking set up to be similar to Empire Strikes back. Rey is off training to be a Jedi. Or at least trying to convince Luke to train her. Finn, Poe and the rest of the Resistance are now suddenly going to have to relocate bases because the New Order knows where they are, and are going to be coming for blood after the destruction of Starkiller Base. Ren will probably be training with Snope, and Captain Phasma (And maybe FN-2199, if they decide he survived?) will be hunting down Finn in particular for his part in her humiliation. So paralleling the Boba Fett hunting Han and Leia in Empire...

Mind you... I would like to be wrong about this. I would like them to go an original route with the story instead of just copying the original trilogy. I would like Rey, Finn and Poe not be related to any of the existing franchise characters. I just don't think Disney will do that. I think they'll go for the safer 'stick to what worked before, tie everything together' route.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 Jan 2016, 07:45
FN-2199
I believe you mean TR-8R :parrot:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 17 Jan 2016, 09:33
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Masterpiece on 17 Jan 2016, 15:36
Saw the movie tonight. Finn is NOT aware.

Lol i forgot to write not before the edit
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Jan 2016, 16:09
FN-2199
I believe you mean TR-8R :parrot:

Actually JJ Abrams capitalized on the unintentional 'Fetting' of the fan named TR-8R and said he is actually FN-2199 'Nines'. He was part of FN-2187's training squad, along with the trooper that dies right in the beginning and smears his blood on Finn's helmet. That's why the whole 'TRAITOR!' thing seemed so personal, supposedly.

Personally I think they made all this up when they realized how popular the character was.. which makes me think they might fight a way to bring him back. Sure he got shot with a bowcaster, but he could have been med evaced after the battle and survived.. now a super cyborg hell bent on revenge against that traitor, FN-2187!

Small edit: FN-2199 and the rest of the training squad was actually in the 'Before the Awakening' anthology book about the main character's lives before the events of the movie. So apparently it was in from the start. But I don't think they knew it would be as big as it turned out. And odd that Finn didn't say something before their big fight. Wookiepedia also says Nines was wounded, not killed in the fight at Maz's castle.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 17 Jan 2016, 17:13
Small edit: FN-2199 and the rest of the training squad was actually in the 'Before the Awakening' anthology book about the main character's lives before the events of the movie. So apparently it was in from the start. But I don't think they knew it would be as big as it turned out.

Really? Obsessing over details like this is kind of what Star Wars nerds do. Look at that scene again and tell me that they didn't intend that character to become hugely popular. I don't believe it for a moment.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 Jan 2016, 17:31
Ehhhh, his name wasn't in the movie, so as far as I'm concerned, he's TR-8R until proven otherwise.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Jan 2016, 22:34
Small edit: FN-2199 and the rest of the training squad was actually in the 'Before the Awakening' anthology book about the main character's lives before the events of the movie. So apparently it was in from the start. But I don't think they knew it would be as big as it turned out.

Really? Obsessing over details like this is kind of what Star Wars nerds do. Look at that scene again and tell me that they didn't intend that character to become hugely popular. I don't believe it for a moment.

As a Star Wars nerd, thank you. :) And no, I don't think they intended Nines to be the 'Fett' of the series. They were clearly trying to set up Captain Phasma in that role. But you can't Force a Fett. They just happen....
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 18 Jan 2016, 01:16
Saw the movie tonight. Finn is NOT aware.

Agreed. However, I suspect that, when he wakes up, Poe won't let that situation persist: "Finn! You're awake! Good, I want to talk to you! Damn it, don't hide from me in the future important stuff like the fact that the girl you picked up on a sand-heap backwater is a Jedi!"

Finn will then more-or-less quote Han Solo's from Return of the Jedi: "Luke? A Jedi Knight?!? Ah, Luke's just a kid! Man, I'm out of circulation for a while and everyone starts getting delusions of grandeur!"
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Jan 2016, 19:19
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xTcnSW4Ck80ib8kY0g/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 18 Jan 2016, 19:51
No one's quite sure if that's a thumbs up or a middle finger from BB8
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Jan 2016, 21:08
Ha, what? He went along with the plan, so clearly it's a thumbs up. Either way, it's adorable.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 18 Jan 2016, 21:33
No one's quite sure if that's a thumbs up or a middle finger from BB8

Yeah, I took it more as a threat than a thumbs up. Didn't Finn stumble back after BB-8 did that?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: K1dmor on 18 Jan 2016, 22:39
 Industrial Light and Magic’s Patrick Tubach describing the creative process they went through to design the moment:
 
Quote from: Patrick
One of the difficult things with animating something like that is you have to be very careful that it doesn’t look like he’s giving you some other sort of gesture! We moved all the pieces around to make sure it was very clearly a thumbs-up over any other kind of ‘salute.’
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Masterpiece on 19 Jan 2016, 03:36
Well I saw it as a middle finger and that's my head cannon.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 19 Jan 2016, 08:43
Star Wars 7.5 fancomic  :laugh:
http://imgur.com/gallery/G0yRy (http://imgur.com/gallery/G0yRy)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 19 Jan 2016, 08:46
Everyone hates Jar-jar.

...

Everyone.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Jan 2016, 09:12
Including Ahmed Best apparently. He's on record to refuse to play him ever again... I kinda feel bad for him though, having acted possibly the most hated character ever...
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: ChaoSera on 19 Jan 2016, 09:35
At least the character doesn't actually look like him. I bet most people don't know who played Jar Jar and won't recognize the actor in other movies.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 19 Jan 2016, 16:53
Including Ahmed Best apparently. He's on record to refuse to play him ever again... I kinda feel bad for him though, having acted possibly the most hated character ever...

He probably still has it better than Jake Lloyd...
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 19 Jan 2016, 17:52
Well I saw it as a middle finger and that's my head cannon.

I see it as a middle finger.

No, no. Not the scene.  :clairedoge:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 19 Jan 2016, 20:08
No one's quite sure if that's a thumbs up or a middle finger from BB8

Yeah, I took it more as a threat than a thumbs up. Didn't Finn stumble back after BB-8 did that?

So I saw this again today and having closely watched this scene, it's definitely a thumbs up. And Finn didn't move, so I don't know why I thought he stumbled. *shrug*
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Jan 2016, 20:08
Everyone hates Jar-jar.

...

Everyone.
Less so since the Darth Jar Jar interpretation came into existence.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Pilchard123 on 20 Jan 2016, 00:14
On BB-8 and digital signalling (http://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/115403)

Quote
We did several different prototype ideas of what that could look like, and we had various amounts of metal and plastic on there,” added Patrick Tubach, another ILM visual effects supervisor for the film. “One of the difficult things with animating something like that is you have to be very careful that it doesn’t look like he’s giving you some other sort of gesture! We moved all the pieces around to make sure it was very clearly a thumbs up over any other kind of ’salute.'
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 20 Jan 2016, 00:52
I really would like to know, of those who claim that it is a middle finger, how many genuinely interpreted it that way, and how many are stirring the pot 1.

Because it's beginning to sound like some kind of a Star Wars inkblot test.

1. I find myself asking this kind of question fairly often, which possibly says a lot about me in turn.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 20 Jan 2016, 10:55
(http://i.imgur.com/ZsEdmbq.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Jan 2016, 14:13
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t34.0-12/12576059_1153469704678289_440794960_n.jpg?oh=b53ab8399e7bf3640c33bf65a6486512&oe=56A2B304)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 20 Jan 2016, 18:38
Le Sigh (http://thenerdybird.com/bb-8-is-not-flipping-finn-the-bird-force-awakens/)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 20 Jan 2016, 18:50
Quote
In the context of the film itself, BB-8 is helping Finn after he pleads with him to do so. Giving him a negative gesture after their interaction would make no sense.

BB-8 could still be mad/exasperated.  I mean, Finn did kinda put him on the spot.  "Fuck you for making me lie to this precious cinnamon roll."  That said, I interpreted the gesture as a thumbs-up both times I saw it, but I can still see how it could be otherwise.

In other news, Episode VIII has been pushed back to December 2017 opening (http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-episode-viii-just-got-pushed-back-seven-month-1754077700?rev=1453319189745&utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow), both to give the filmmakers more time (reworking script to give us more Rey, hooray!) and to avoid competing with other movies.  This puts it up against Avatar 2 instead, but ha, like that's ever really coming out.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Lines on 20 Jan 2016, 20:21
Quote
In the context of the film itself, BB-8 is helping Finn after he pleads with him to do so. Giving him a negative gesture after their interaction would make no sense.

BB-8 could still be mad/exasperated.  I mean, Finn did kinda put him on the spot.

Honestly, that's how I'd interpreted it the first time I saw the movie. More of a, "I'll save your ass, but you better watch out or I'll cut you."
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 20 Jan 2016, 21:53
And on a different note, a short, simple, Fan Film knocks JarJar Abrams, Lucas and Disney into a cocked hat.

Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 21 Jan 2016, 03:23
It was excellent, but I wouldn't get that carried away (you don't like Abrams, I take it).
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 21 Jan 2016, 12:19
Not since he and Paramount fucked over Star Trek, no.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: retrosteve on 21 Jan 2016, 13:45

Now that I think about it, they never showed the Death Star enter hyperspace. How did it get from system to system? Space is unfathomably big.

I read that they cut scenes showing the bigger Death Star flying near lightspeed, because it broke the illusion of size to see it zipping around.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 29 Jan 2016, 14:39
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7Zetcgz3qm1z5Ekw/giphy.gif)

I forget if this has been posted yet.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Feb 2016, 18:32
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t35.0-12/12637178_1162083407150252_882396254_o.jpg?oh=295f61f47fb756ca3ce12494a67d6217&oe=56B38D5E)

Fun times with Paint.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 09 Feb 2016, 10:11
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 09 Feb 2016, 10:21
Oh, that was their best one yet. :D
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Feb 2016, 15:48
SO GOOD.  :lol:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 11 Feb 2016, 08:41
(http://i.imgur.com/dk9qA35.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/FQx4cw4.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/6wDxmPX.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/on3NPuw.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/wHKQHLp.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/dUoVQpX.gif)

_________________________________________

(http://i.imgur.com/msNJojL.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/PcDWSKW.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/6fPXAt5.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/UcJ0Los.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/Ag4vi2U.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/juWo7L8.gif)

___________________________________________

(http://i.imgur.com/HU6ixAH.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/qBj5o4P.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/XyiDey9.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/WoLhyqH.gif)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Feb 2016, 09:31
What are the video(s) called? I must find them.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Feb 2016, 10:24
I'm pretty sure they aren't videos. Just strung together gifs of the actors in different movies with subtitles applied.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Feb 2016, 11:35
Why ya gotta break my heart? :p
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Feb 2016, 11:42
It's what I do. Neko_Ali, Destroyer of Dreams.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 11 Feb 2016, 13:05
At least you aren't the Destroyer of Nations


That title's reserved for a certain female ex Warlord
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 11 Feb 2016, 16:48
here's the sources, some really good ones like when he calls Leia...
http://mamalaz.tumblr.com/tagged/modern-solo-adventures (http://mamalaz.tumblr.com/tagged/modern-solo-adventures)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Feb 2016, 17:52
Thanks!
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 29 Feb 2016, 06:24
(http://i.imgur.com/VXYtitw.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 29 Feb 2016, 11:32
Gilbert Vape :claireface:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 02 Mar 2016, 12:56
(http://i.imgur.com/Ssz2nab.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Mar 2016, 13:05
Wait, no, Rey's Obi-Wan's grandkid. Not Ben.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 02 Mar 2016, 15:29
NURRRR SO CONFUSED NURRR
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 02 Mar 2016, 17:51
You don't have to be related to be considered family.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 02 Mar 2016, 18:31
That is certainly true, grandson.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Case on 10 Mar 2016, 12:56
One more reason to like Mark Hamil (http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/04/mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-gay-jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-viii): "‘I’m bullied in school … I’m afraid to come out.’ They say to me: ‘Could Luke be gay?’ I’d say it is meant to be interpreted by the viewer. If you think Luke is gay, of course he is."

Yeah, actually ... why shouldn't Luke be gay? :psyduck:
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Mar 2016, 13:05
I really want him to be Rey's dad.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: hedgie on 10 Mar 2016, 13:55
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Mar 2016, 14:07
Of course not, but that's more nuance than I trust from Disney.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Mar 2016, 14:57
I realise that this is perverse, but every time I read or hear someone express the wish that Luke be Rey's father, I hope that he is not just a little bit harder.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Mar 2016, 15:19
Why?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Mar 2016, 15:31
Because I would like to be surprised by the next film. Ideally, the truth would be something no-one else thought of, but I'll happily settle for something I personally hadn't thought or heard of.

Imagine how much less of a fan favourite Empire Strikes Back would be if everyone had seen the key plot twist coming.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Mar 2016, 19:36
Maybe Snoke is her father?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 10 Mar 2016, 19:38
Maybe Snoke is her son?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Mar 2016, 19:39
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/aoz8kgx8pzknypz7z38n.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 10 Mar 2016, 19:57
No, we all know that he is her father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Mar 2016, 20:02
No, we all know that he is her father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.

No, that would be Spaceballs.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Mar 2016, 06:59
rainierwolfcastle.gif
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 11 Mar 2016, 07:06
Because I would like to be surprised by the next film. Ideally, the truth would be something no-one else thought of, but I'll happily settle for something I personally hadn't thought or heard of.

Imagine how much less of a fan favourite Empire Strikes Back would be if everyone had seen the key plot twist coming.
If they address it from the get go or casually then I don't think it would be a problem. I am excited for them to now take the story in a new direction and that 7 was just to establish the new universe and the whose who.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 11 Mar 2016, 17:20
Fair call.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 01 Apr 2016, 10:01
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 01 Apr 2016, 12:38
I think if the Jedi had actually had Pai Mei as a Master, Sidiouous would have been dead in the first five minutes.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 01 Apr 2016, 19:59
I still want Tarantino to direct a Star Wars movie.

Not a main Episode, just a side story.  Low budget.  Whatever he wants to do. 

I mean, considering that the original Star Wars was just a pastiche of old sci-fi serials, war movies, Kurosawa epics, and basically whatever else Young George Lucas with his love of cinema decided to throw at the screen, I would love to see what Tarantino, with hisp love of cinema, would do with it. 

No idea if it would be good or anything, but it would certainly be interesting.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 07 Apr 2016, 11:49
New Rogue One trailer up...I teared up
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 07 Apr 2016, 12:34
This pleases me.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Pilchard123 on 07 Apr 2016, 13:57
That music at the end! *shivers*
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 07 Apr 2016, 15:20
New Rogue One trailer up...I teared up

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr296cNWCO1qbcxed.gif)
I loved it and I can not wait
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Blue Kitty on 16 Apr 2016, 11:29
(http://49.media.tumblr.com/20a69cfc10594c34ce1bee9ad43d069c/tumblr_o5hu5bpU7j1u7prgso1_1280.gif)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 16 Apr 2016, 14:09
Sometimes, low tech effects work better  :D
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Detachable Felix on 18 Apr 2016, 18:32
SO, in an interview, J.J. Abrams has said that Rey's parents were not in TFA. I guess this only serves to strengthen my theory that she's Qui Gon Jinn's secret granddaughter.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Apr 2016, 19:18
Even if I did believe in word of god (which I famously don't), he apparently clarified that with something to the effect of "as far as she knows". So it might be Luke, it might be not Luke.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 18 Apr 2016, 21:50
So, what if it's no-one we know, and no-one of significance whatsoever? Or alternatively, if we never find out?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Apr 2016, 02:58
Only time will tell! Or not.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Apr 2016, 07:25
Even if I did believe in word of god (which I famously don't), he apparently clarified that with something to the effect of "as far as she knows". So it might be Luke, it might be not Luke.

Yeah, the important things to remember is, he immediately back tracked what he said, and he has no more creative input or influence on the rest of the movies. In the first movie nobody except maybe George knew that Luke and Leia were twins. And that's assuming this all wasn't just a strategic and intentional move to keep people talking about the movies.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 19 Apr 2016, 15:18
Plot Twist:  She's Leias secret love child - by Lando



:-D 
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 19 Apr 2016, 19:28
(Lando has submissive recessive genes)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: UniqueNewYork on 22 Apr 2016, 06:19
(http://49.media.tumblr.com/20a69cfc10594c34ce1bee9ad43d069c/tumblr_o5hu5bpU7j1u7prgso1_1280.gif)

If that's not Andy Serkis I don't know what I've been doing with my life
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 24 Jun 2016, 04:41
Guess what these 2 Star Wars character's have in common:
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/a3a55e9a56acb38df248172d1cb37bfc/tumblr_o98pkscgSn1sjzj6qo1_500.jpg)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 15 Jul 2016, 10:27
Rogue One Celebration Reel.   :-D

Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 15 Jul 2016, 13:07
Wild fan theory (not mine): Jyn Erso, the heroine of Rogue One, is Rey's mother (and Luke's future wife during the inter-trilogy gap).

Retcon? Of sorts, I suppose but, as the director of Rogue One says, there is enough flexibility and blank spaces in the Original Trilogy movie canon that you can do a lot without even arguably betraying the classic stories.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 Jul 2016, 13:40
What would that retcon?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 17 Jul 2016, 14:13
What would that retcon?

That Luke may have had a semi-romantic relationship at some point during the Original Trilogy. FWIW, I don't buy that it is a retcon at all but I'm sure that some fans would scream 'heresy!' if someone tried to add something to the main characters' OT-era canon.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 18 Jul 2016, 10:30
Why would that be the case? There was kind of a long stretch in between episodes 6 and 7. Given Rey's age, she would have been born in that time frame. So if Luke is her father, then any kind of relationship happened after episode 6. No retcon, no conflict.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Akima on 24 Jul 2016, 16:57
So, I finally got around to watching Star Wars: The Force Awakens over the weekend. It's not a bad movie, but it is such an awfully safe movie. Everything was very competently done, with none of the grating blunders of the prequel trilogy, but nothing was new. It was essentially just a pastiche of things we've seen before, and if you played a drinking game where you took a shot every time the film repeated elements from earlier Star Wars movies, you'd be unconscious well before the film was half over. I've had low expectations since seeing the teaser trailer (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28376.msg1286846/topicseen.html#msg1286846), so I wasn't disappointed, and I did enjoy the film, but it was a bit "Meh...", which epic space-opera shouldn't be.

And judging by the trailer for Rogue One, they're featuring yet another giant spherical super-weapon. Seriously? That's two episodes of the original trilogy,  cameo appearances in two episodes of the prequel trilogy, on steroids in The Force Awakens, and now yet again? Could we move on, please?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 24 Jul 2016, 18:17
There is kind of a reason for it. That is the original Death Star under construction. From Episode 4. Rogue One is chronologically shortly before A New Hope. Those plans that Leia was carrying? This movie is about how the Rebels got their hands on them. But  yeah, I rolled my eyes so hard at Starkiller Base. I could just see the First Order planning session.

"So guys... We lost two moon sized super weapons to the Rebels. The last one the blew up killed the Emperor and Darth Vader and fractured the Empire. What should we do now to establish ourselves as a galactic power?"

"Ummm... Let's build a PLANET sized super weapon!"

"...... Brilliant! Make that man a Moff!"
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: hedgie on 24 Jul 2016, 18:30
And judging by the trailer for Rogue One, they're featuring yet another giant spherical super-weapon.

You'd at least think that they'd try using a Platonic Solid or something for variety's sake.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Akima on 24 Jul 2016, 18:40
Speaking of over-analysis... Did anyone else think the scene where the space-Nazis fire the giant mega-gun of doom looked really peculiar? How could the beam be visible in the sky of the rebel base planet at the same time as it's blowing up the un-named disposable planets at which it was aimed? I know that the script said it was a "super luminal" weapon, presumably implying that it could be fired at interstellar distances, but the "backwash" is super-luminal too? And travels at close to infinite speed so that it can be seen at roughly the same time everywhere regardless of distance?

I know I shouldn't even try to think rationally about "science" in space-opera, but from a film-making point of view, it kicked me out of the story, making me think: "Wait... What? Is all the action taking place in a single solar system like Firefly, or something?" It made the Star Wars galaxy feel small, when surely that's the opposite of what should happen.

Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 24 Jul 2016, 20:03
Everything about that scene is wrong and ridiculous. And you are not the first to point out the logic and physics errors of firing an energy beam that can somehow break the speed of light and curve to hit five systems. All of which could be clearly seen from some other point in space. Even if the five planets had all been in the same system, there is no point that they could be seen with the naked eye so large. And that's not even counting that somehow, some way the Starkiller weapon is fueled by siphoning plasma through space from the nearest star. Somehow. Without incinerating at the very least everything on the surface around it. Somehow. And what they planned to do when the star was drained of power. Move the planet to another system?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 24 Jul 2016, 21:08
The simplest answer is, J. J. Abrams has no sense of scale.  At all.  From Kirk watching Vulcan explode from the surface of another planet and people somehow beaming across light-years willy-nilly to this laser-visible-across-the-galaxy bullshit, Abrams clearly has no idea how big space really is.  It bothered me too.

As for the rest, I didn't mind the similarities.  It was a nice return to Proper Star Wars.  That said, I hope Episode VIII tries to be original instead of a flashier clone of Empire.

I know I shouldn't even try to think rationally about "science" in space-opera, but from a film-making point of view, it kicked me out of the story, making me think: "Wait... What? Is all the action taking place in a single solar system like Firefly, or something?" It made the Star Wars galaxy feel small, when surely that's the opposite of what should happen.

Nah, it can't be like Firefly.  There were Asian people in it.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 29 Jul 2016, 22:23
Abrams clearly has no idea how big space really is.
Quote from: Douglas Adams
Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 29 Jul 2016, 23:34
If anyone is interested in a good official explanation for Starkiller, read Alan Dean Foster's novelisation.

It turns out to be that the weapon fires through hyperspace and some of the energy from the attack is continually leaking back out into real space as the attack moves at FTL speeds towards its target. The smugglers' planet just happened to be along the blast trajectory so the waste energy 'afterglow' was visible from its surface.

Foster also gives an interesting official explanation for what Starkiller does that actually sounds a lot more plausible (on a Star Trek - Voyager technobabble scale) than the canon explanation in the film.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 30 Jul 2016, 11:29
That sounds very much like an explanation that was made up after the complaints were made.

Oh no, but you see it works like this!
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: BenRG on 30 Jul 2016, 11:42
Yeah but actually probably was with the editors before the final theatrical cut of the movie was complete to allow the right release schedule. In fact, the novel was probably based on a late draft of the script including explanatory exposition that was cut out for runtime reasons.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Gladstone on 30 Jul 2016, 16:51
Abrams clearly has no idea how big space really is.
Quote from: Douglas Adams
Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

Quote from: J. J. Abrams
Hey, watch this planet explode from the surface of another planet, ain't it great.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Method of Madness on 31 Jul 2016, 20:06
It kinda is great, yeah.
That sounds very much like an explanation that was made up after the complaints were made.

Oh no, but you see it works like this!
To be fair, they've been doing that since the beginning with the bullshit "parsecs" excuse, which I still don't accept.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Neko_Ali on 31 Jul 2016, 21:36
Star Wars has always been science fantasy. Actual scientific facts have never been important, it's all been about the narrative. Sometimes though, you can push to far against science and people just run into the wall of disbelief so that they can no longer ignore it. For me at least, it was.. Pretty much everything involving Starkiller Base.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 31 Jul 2016, 21:46
Even in fantasy, it's still very important to keep the internal logic straight, and to make things as realistic as possible while still being able to have the fantasticalelements you wish to include.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 31 Jul 2016, 22:31
That sounds very much like an explanation that was made up after the complaints were made.

Oh no, but you see it works like this!

I thought that was the main reason fan fiction existed in the first place.  :mrgreen:

Even in fantasy, it's still very important to keep the internal logic straight, and to make things as realistic as possible while still being able to have the fantasticalelements you wish to include.

So, what is the internal contradiction that you found too hard to swallow?
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Edguy on 01 Aug 2016, 12:04
I was talking about fantasy fiction in general..
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Kugai on 01 Aug 2016, 20:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFDT2L5bPFI
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: Tova on 02 Aug 2016, 15:17
I was talking about fantasy fiction in general..

I see. It had appeared to me that your post was written in direct counterpoint to the one preceding it. Still does, actually.
Title: Re: SPOILERS - Star Wars The Force Awakens Discussion and Overanalysis
Post by: LeeC on 04 Aug 2016, 11:23