Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: Kugai on 01 Mar 2016, 14:22

Title: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 01 Mar 2016, 14:22
Time MARCHES on!!!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 01 Mar 2016, 14:30
Is it perhaps time for this chapter's Big Exposition Dump?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 02 Mar 2016, 11:01
So, they look REALLY similar in the 'None of your business' panel. If they're sisters or clones, makes sense. If they're ex-lovers, a bit sick but whatever.

I notice that plenty of exposition has already happened, we've even got the formation of an 'expotition', and yet we still don't know shooty mcbangbang's name. Also, Alice's character is remarkably consistent. She talks to pretty much everyone the same way: reasoned, patient, yet with an undercurrent of irritation that comes out when they act idiotic enough.



Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Mar 2016, 11:13
My obviously-wrong theory of the day: Maybe she doesn't have a name. Alice may have gotten her name from her townsfolk. Malice is antisocial, so has nothing but the number she was issued when she was decanted from the growth vat.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 02 Mar 2016, 12:36
Methinks these two protested too much

It's going to be interesting to see if they can work together without one wanting to shoot the other.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 02 Mar 2016, 12:53
Given that "no, don't be stupid" would have been simpler, I'd say that this non-denial slap-down means that, yes, Alice and Malice were in a relationship at some time. Hell, they may have even been married but... well, two acerbic personalties like that? It would have taken a miracle for it to last more than a few centuries! :wink:

Interesting that Malice talks about 'her territory'. That lends itself to the theory that each ALICE has taken a part of the post-Blink world as their stomping ground with which to do as they see fit. Alice has chosen to become a protector and teacher whilst Malice has just become a hermit collector (sort of like The Collector in the Marvel universes).

"Archeophiles" trying to dig up rockets? I'm suddenly getting a strong 'Kerbal Space Program' vibe about the next volume!

So, they look REALLY similar in the 'None of your business' panel. If they're sisters or clones, makes sense. If they're ex-lovers, a bit sick but whatever.

Yeah, maybe but... Well, put yourself in their place: Your whole civilisation and everything you know and remember has been swept away by a grand Deus Ex Machina. Maybe you would cling to one of the few survivors who still has something in common with you and, maybe, after a century or so, this friendship and mutual dependency for emotional stability would become something more. Who could judge them when no-one else had really experienced what they had done?

My obviously-wrong theory of the day: Maybe she doesn't have a name. Alice may have gotten her name from her townsfolk. Malice is antisocial, so has nothing but the number she was issued when she was decanted from the growth vat.

I've suggested before that they might have originally been ALICE-GR-053 and ALICE-MI-132 or something similar.

BTW, Jeph's footnote about Alice shooting Malice 'not doing any good' seems to add official weight to the suggestion that they've both got the same indestructible nature.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Mar 2016, 14:00
Alice still hasn't changed out of her body armor back into coveralls.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 02 Mar 2016, 14:09
Well the fact that Alice had to go to the lengths of submerging Malice into molten rock to inconvenience her I think is more of an indication how indestructible they are. At least on the level of no force they have available post Blink is strong enough to really hurt them... at most cause pain or immobilize them for a while. I would say if they are biological beings, they're probably genetically engineered clone soldiers. Robots would also be possible, but we know that Alice eats and has other biologic functions... She had food and an outhouse at her cabin, and before the kids showed up she's not exactly the sort of share her living space. So yeah... I'm thinking clone warriors is the best theory right now. Which would make them 'sisters' after a sort. That would possibly explain their animosity towards each other as well, or part of it any way.

As far as the territory comment goes, maybe the different Alices have staked out territory in different parts of the world. Or I think more likely, they just don't get along so they avoid each other unless necessary. Territory being nothing official just 'You stay over there, I'll stay over here and we won't have to pointlessly beat on each other'. If there are groups of people digging up old world tech though, it seems to me that Alice is deliberately keeping her charges limited to an agrarian society. By giving them just enough tech to satisfy their needs and desires, but making herself the one they come to to fix things when it's broken, she makes them less interested in figuring out things on their own and dependent on her. Which of course she would defend as 'I don't want them to overtax the eco system by taking to much', like she told Argent and Gavia before. It also probably means she's pretty zealous about guarding her 'territory' from interlopers too.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Mar 2016, 04:11
'territory'
(http://static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/5148277+_57eef2c4458e0c6d0e17250e36d97d16.gif)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 03 Mar 2016, 04:13
I note that Malice says the community of archeophiles are "way out west". Are our heroes going to visit the ruins of Vandenberg AFB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Air_Force_Base)?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Mar 2016, 04:21
The Pacific Missile Range Facility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Missile_Range_Facility).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Sorflakne on 04 Mar 2016, 00:50
The way the first panel of the comic is drawn, it looks like two separate panels rather than one large one.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 07 Mar 2016, 12:47
New strip! (http://41.media.tumblr.com/eb24dbfcde00427aee1fe42be16eb014/tumblr_o3orn35iOf1tl5t55o1_1280.png)

There is definitely an established relationship here. I'm still not sure what particularly it is but I'm getting a definite familial "It's fun to piss you off, Alice" feeling from panel 4.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 07 Mar 2016, 13:18
The annoying kid sister?

But the question still remains which is which?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 07 Mar 2016, 14:13
I'm still backing Ardent's assessment.

That or they are different models of the same product. My money would be on Alice being the more advanced model, hence Malice needing weaponry and hence the rivalry.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Mar 2016, 14:14
When will she get a fucking name?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Mar 2016, 17:04
What's in a fucking name? That which we call a god-damned rose
By any other fucking name would smell sweet as shit.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Mar 2016, 17:14
Is a fucking name like a porn star name? Because there are online quizzes to find those.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Mar 2016, 17:19
A porn star name is just your first pet followed by the first street you lived on.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Mar 2016, 17:22
Mine would be very... unique... but I'm not sure I want to post where I lived as a kid, because my mom still lives there.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 07 Mar 2016, 17:29
Mine actually sounds like a porn star name, but I still live there.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: hedgie on 07 Mar 2016, 22:22
A porn star name is just your first pet followed by the first street you lived on.
Oblig xkcd

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rogers_st.png)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 07 Mar 2016, 23:25
What if she doesn't have a name? Alice didn't either, before she chose one for herself. However, as she's a recluse, 'Malice' hasn't ever felt the need.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Mar 2016, 03:49
A porn star name is just your first pet followed by the first street you lived on.

"Persephone Mansfield" - yes, that would work.



Meanwhile, Alice's haircut has been acknowledged, but that doesn't in itself get us very much further...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Mar 2016, 04:57
What if she doesn't have a name? Alice didn't either, before she chose one for herself. However, as she's a recluse, 'Malice' hasn't ever felt the need.
I can see her not having a name, but when did it say that Alice picked out her own name?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 08 Mar 2016, 05:07
What if she doesn't have a name? Alice didn't either, before she chose one for herself. However, as she's a recluse, 'Malice' hasn't ever felt the need.

I can see her not having a name, but when did it say that Alice picked out her own name?

It doesn't say that anywhere that I remember. It's just a feeling that I have.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Mar 2016, 05:36
Just making sure I didn't miss anything.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 08 Mar 2016, 10:23
What if she doesn't have a name? Alice didn't either, before she chose one for herself. However, as she's a recluse, 'Malice' hasn't ever felt the need.

I can see her not having a name, but when did it say that Alice picked out her own name?

It doesn't say that anywhere that I remember. It's just a feeling that I have.

Alice has a lot in common with Gandalf -- she's effectively immortal, remembers some of the older ages when things were entirely different, has powers she doesn't talk about, has chosen different roles in different communities, and is generally a protector.

I'm actually surprised that Malice, from a past life, called her "Alice" today. Given all the above, it might make more sense that people from her various past lives had different names for her.  (e.g. Olorin, Mithrandir, Greyhame, Stormcrow, Tharkun, Lathspell, etc) (See also Kvothe/Maedre/Dulacar/Lightfinger/Six-string/Kote  from The Name of the Wind).

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 08 Mar 2016, 11:48
New comic, and apparently Malice has a name!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cucumber error on 08 Mar 2016, 12:13
Her name is also found in Inuit mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_%28mythology%29) and an alternate name for the goddess is Big Bad Woman. Maybe that's not the connection Jeph was going for, though; I can't see The Entity Formerly Known as Malice turning her fingers into sea creatures.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 08 Mar 2016, 12:21
Something tells me is that 'friend' isn't something that Alice does very easily. I still would like to know how she and Sedna came to be such fierce enemies when they clearly share so much. Could they be from opposite sides in the Last War?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Mar 2016, 12:43
You don't have to redact her name, it's right there in plain sight.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 08 Mar 2016, 13:26
Her name is also "Andes" spelled backward, which likely means absolutely nothing.

The real question is the shelves in her cabin. Half of them appear to have weapon cases or ammo crates on them, the others are empty. She has literally nothing else but weapons and ammo.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 08 Mar 2016, 13:49
I think that that was where all the guns Alice trashed were stored.


And it's called being friendly Alice and Gavia.  Try it sometime, you might be surprised.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: osaka on 08 Mar 2016, 14:02
Sedna is a nice name, I like it.

And for some reason I'm buying her side of the story where Alice just brings out the worst in her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 08 Mar 2016, 15:14
This one just makes me want to scream "Remind Ardent not to touch anything!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 08 Mar 2016, 16:27
"Ooooh, what's that gun do?" *touch*

[Transforming noises]

I am... Megatron! I live!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 08 Mar 2016, 16:36
Ardent: Megatron seems nice!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Schmee on 09 Mar 2016, 04:26
New comic! Malice Sedna has a name after all, and Ardent continues his track record of befriending the wildlife!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 09 Mar 2016, 11:18
Wait, so those weird talking horses were telling the truth when they said friendship was magic? oO
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Mar 2016, 16:12
If there's one thing I've learned in this world, it's that the weird talking horses are always right.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Mar 2016, 16:24
Watch out for the talking weird dogs, though. Especially the one with the Southern accent who repeats himself a lot.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: MrWoodchip on 09 Mar 2016, 18:55
I still prefer "Malice".
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Storel on 10 Mar 2016, 20:48
Making friends is harder if you're more intelligent than average. You're more self-conscious and overthink things more.

Also, introverted people have a harder time making friends than extroverts do.

Ardent definitely doesn't seem as bright as either Alice or Gavia, and he's more extroverted than either, so it's easier for him.



At least, that was how it seemed to me that my less bright, more extroverted sister had so much less trouble making friends than I did. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 11 Mar 2016, 06:54
What about more intelligent extroverts. Do the two cancel each other out?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: HiFranc on 11 Mar 2016, 14:24
Making friends is harder if you're more intelligent than average. You're more self-conscious and overthink things more.

Also, introverted people have a harder time making friends than extroverts do.

Ardent definitely doesn't seem as bright as either Alice or Gavia, and he's more extroverted than either, so it's easier for him.

That's not a question of intelligence but neuroticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism) (which is a variable that is independent of intelligence).  There are people who fit in all 4 camps -- i.e. not neurotic and not intelligent, neurotic and not intelligent, intelligent but not neurotic, intelligent and neurotic.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Morituri on 12 Mar 2016, 17:54
So what happens when he asks Sedna if she wants to fuck? 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 13 Mar 2016, 00:09
There is a very real possibility that she might shrug and say 'Why not?' However, I do think it will be the first time Ardent has been the one screwed and then waking up alone in bed with a note saying: "Thanks, sweetie but be real and don't try for a follow-up!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 13 Mar 2016, 06:51
Hmm. That scenario is a cause for concern. I don't think Ardent would know of the need to check for ice picks under the bed (or whatever she might use instead).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 15 Mar 2016, 15:10
New comic! (http://www.alicegrove.com/image/141109595324)

I just can't get over how good Jeph is at implying so much and giving so much background with a few strokes of a very broad brush. We've learnt almost as much about Alice in this strip as we have learned for the rest of the strip to date:
Sedna's earlier denial to Ardent aside, I'm taking panel 4 in this strip as proving that she and Alice have some kind of common origin.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 15 Mar 2016, 15:21
Alice is sleeping in her armor. That implies something about her relationship with Sedna right there.

That, or the armor disintegrated her clothes when it, uh, apparated? manifested? materialized? Whatever it did.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 15 Mar 2016, 15:24
New comic! (http://www.alicegrove.com/image/141109595324)

I just can't get over how good Jeph is at implying so much and giving so much background with a few strokes of a very broad brush. We've learnt almost as much about Alice in this strip as we have learned for the rest of the strip to date:
  • Whatever happened between Alice and Sedna happened ~300 years back;
  • It seems likely that Alice was somehow in the causitive chain of The Blink and she's never forgiven herself... not even five millennia later;
  • Sedna didn't hesitate to let a woman whom she claims to hate sleep beside her; is that the result of bittersweet memories? As Jeph says in his endnote - They have a weird relationship!
Sedna's earlier denial to Ardent aside, I'm taking panel 4 in this strip as proving that she and Alice have some kind of common origin.

If not some kind of common relationship.  Familial or otherwise.

It shall be interesting to see which.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 15 Mar 2016, 15:36
Alice is sleeping in her armor. That implies something about her relationship with Sedna right there.

That, or the armor disintegrated her clothes when it, uh, apparated? manifested? materialized? Whatever it did.

There's no sign of Alice's tee-shirt or dungarees, even though she's got the armour open almost to mid-chest. Yeah, it disintegrated her clothes alright!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 15 Mar 2016, 16:29
I can imagine what will happen when Ardent figures that out.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 15 Mar 2016, 17:00
Well, Sedna said she and Alice aren't exactly the same, but come from similar vintage. It's possible they were not created or upgraded by the same group... opposite sides of the war, or different programs. Or even just that they are different kinds of human weapons. Interesting that the grudge between them is only 300 years old though. There is still a lot left unknown about their relationship. And the grudge aside, they are comfortable enough with each other to sleep under the same covers. And yes, Alice's clothes seem to have been destroyed by her armor. But it makes me wonder why she hasn't changed. Surely she brought spare clothes along for a long road trip? Psychological in nature? She's unwilling to drop her guard around Sedna, in a literal sense. Which is ironic given she was asking Sedna if she was going to stop being hostile towards her...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: katsmeat on 15 Mar 2016, 18:01
Alice is sleeping in her armor. That implies something about her relationship with Sedna right there.

That, or the armor disintegrated her clothes when it, uh, apparated? manifested? materialized? Whatever it did.

I'm going to hazard a guess the armour consists of the atoms that were formerly her clothes.  And it's a one-way transformation so she's stuck until she can get new dungarees from somewhere.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 15 Mar 2016, 18:17
Prediction:  once the gang begins traveling with a well-armed Sedna, Predator will be hunting them.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cucumber error on 15 Mar 2016, 19:08
Alice is sleeping in her armor. That implies something about her relationship with Sedna right there.

That, or the armor disintegrated her clothes when it, uh, apparated? manifested? materialized? Whatever it did.


Sedna, on the other hand, might not be wearing anything. Her top is definitely gone.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 15 Mar 2016, 19:37
Alice is sleeping in her armor. That implies something about her relationship with Sedna right there.

That, or the armor disintegrated her clothes when it, uh, apparated? manifested? materialized? Whatever it did.


Sedna, on the other hand, might not be wearing anything. Her top is definitely gone.
If that's true then my indecision is gone and I'm pretty certain they were a couple. Siblings don't tend to sleep with another who's not wearing anything.

Well, except in certain.. Videos. lol
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 15 Mar 2016, 20:27
There are other options besides couple and related, you know. They are the only ones we've seen, possibly the only ones they know, who are from before the Blink. Though Alice did allude to the fact that there were other sources of information she could have gone to, but Sedna was the closest. So she went to her, instead of a more preferred source. That doesn't necessarily mean they are of similar vintage to these two. But the sheer commonality of being immortals in a human world would draw them together. Nobody else could understand them as well. Unfortunately, understanding doesn't equal friendliness. Sometimes quite the opposite. Which is a long way around saying they may have just been friends, or acquaintances who shared a similar background. Think more military buddies than sisters or lovers.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 15 Mar 2016, 23:17
There are other options besides couple and related, you know. They are the only ones we've seen, possibly the only ones they know, who are from before the Blink. Though Alice did allude to the fact that there were other sources of information she could have gone to, but Sedna was the closest. So she went to her, instead of a more preferred source. That doesn't necessarily mean they are of similar vintage to these two. But the sheer commonality of being immortals in a human world would draw them together. Nobody else could understand them as well. Unfortunately, understanding doesn't equal friendliness. Sometimes quite the opposite. Which is a long way around saying they may have just been friends, or acquaintances who shared a similar background. Think more military buddies than sisters or lovers.
You seem to be forgetting the fact that Sedna knows Alice well enough to know exactly that Alice hates herself. And also a feud that's gone on for 300 years which neither of them have, or at least had intention of breaking.

People don't tend to know eachother so well, and at the same time hate eachother so much that they'd never see eachother in so long if they were nothing more then military buddies.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 16 Mar 2016, 00:42
No pillow for Alice!

Alice probably kindly gave up her claim to Sedna's only spare pillow so that Ardent could use it. Sedna was clearly willing to do the same for Gavia. This suggests a strong instinct of kindness in both the older augments.

I don't think that not having a pillow is going to matter as Alice and Sedna are going to wake up in a spoon (heads on the same pillow). They will react with much embarrassment, quietly blame 'long habit' and agree to never mention the event again.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Mar 2016, 01:22
Interesting that the grudge between them is only 300 years old though.

I took that to mean merely the last time they met, not the origin of the hostility which could even have been in the immediate aftermath of the blink.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 16 Mar 2016, 02:30
Interesting that the grudge between them is only 300 years old though.

I took that to mean merely the last time they met, not the origin of the hostility which could even have been in the immediate aftermath of the blink.
No, it's only been 300 years. The line '300 years and you haven't moved on' in relation to the grudge makes no sense if she had just meant since the last time they met. Cause if the grudge had been going on for 5000 years then why should Alice be surprised or whatever reaction that is, that in 300 years she hadn't moved on. Especially in combination with Sedna saying how this comes from the queen of grudges.

She's basically saying, you're confused that I could hold a grudge for 300 years when you've had one with yourself for 5000. So yeah. :3
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 16 Mar 2016, 03:00
I'm beginning to get a hint of what Alice is about. Remember her PTSD flashback when she was about to kill Ardent? I think that she did things in the Great War; things that no sane person could do without leaving permanent scars. I suspect that Sedna spend centuries trying to get Alice to move on but couldn't. In the end, she couldn't hang around whilst Alice was continuing her self-imposed penance. For the sake of her own sanity, she had to leave and find her own life. The problem? She still loved her and it's hard to forgive the woman who broke your heart.

The irony? I bet that Sedna giving Alice the "I can't do this anymore, Ali. I've tried but I can't just sit here anymore and watch you trying to find some way to kill yourself or at least make yourself suffer forever. I have to get out of here before it kills me!" speech may have done the trick. I bet that Alice helping the Townsfolk originated with the shock of Sedna walking out on her and realising that she was right and that just sitting there and trying to will herself to death was stupid and wrong.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: katsmeat on 16 Mar 2016, 06:28
Is it just me, or does anybody else think it'd be cool if Jeph started updating AG once per weekday, and took QC down to once or twice per week.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 Mar 2016, 09:31
I think AG would drop in quality without enough of a boost in QC to make up for it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 17 Mar 2016, 01:47
I'm beginning to get a hint of what Alice is about. Remember her PTSD flashback when she was about to kill Ardent? I think that she did things in the Great War; things that no sane person could do without leaving permanent scars. I suspect that Sedna spend centuries trying to get Alice to move on but couldn't. In the end, she couldn't hang around whilst Alice was continuing her self-imposed penance. For the sake of her own sanity, she had to leave and find her own life. The problem? She still loved her and it's hard to forgive the woman who broke your heart.

The irony? I bet that Sedna giving Alice the "I can't do this anymore, Ali. I've tried but I can't just sit here anymore and watch you trying to find some way to kill yourself or at least make yourself suffer forever. I have to get out of here before it kills me!" speech may have done the trick. I bet that Alice helping the Townsfolk originated with the shock of Sedna walking out on her and realising that she was right and that just sitting there and trying to will herself to death was stupid and wrong.
Oh my god I'd love if Alice said something on the townsfolk part of what you said in the next page.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 17 Mar 2016, 02:38
Is it just me, or does anybody else think it'd be cool if Jeph started updating AG once per weekday, and took QC down to once or twice per week.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think this is right. It'd definitely be cool to get Alice updates more frequently, but this is a storyline in which every strip, every panel, gives significant information about this new world about which we are still learning. QC is a universe much closer to our own, which characters several years more established, and so surely does not consume so much effort and thought in story creation and story telling.

I suspect that Alice Grove needs its slower pace. Incubation time is invaluable in any setting, but certainly so much more in a creative sense such as this where you have potential to take a story anywhere, but never to recant upon a mistake. The Alice story is intriguing, rich, and I feel it would be diluted to impose a time deadline that might obstruct any process of incubation and pondering over its complex canon history.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 17 Mar 2016, 03:34
A query: Would readers agree or disagree with Alice, Sedna, Ardent and Gavia being described as 'trans-humans'?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 17 Mar 2016, 04:13
Oh, they're all transhumans, in that they clearly have all been modified from natural homo sapiens.

The townsfolk, as far as we know, are still unmodified humans.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 Mar 2016, 04:24
The question is, at least for Alice and Sedna, whether they were modified by others or if they're simply mutants.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: ChaoSera on 17 Mar 2016, 05:16
I think we still can't be sure if they are humans at all, in any sense other than appearance. They might be really advanced droids, shapeshifters, or something else entirely.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Mar 2016, 06:16
I'm pretty sure that Ardent and Gavia are transhuman. Post human would imply they have moved away from human baseline as a species. Gavia and Ardent, while they are siblings look dramatically different than each other because of their individualized upgrades. And Gavia pretty much looks like one of the villagers we've seen, aside from her nanotech powers and clothing. Ardent on the other hand looks significantly different, but still mostly human.

Alice and Sedna though, we have no idea what their origin is yet. We know they are of pre-Blink vintage, nearly impossible to damage physically, stronger and much faster than a baseline human and apparently unaging. They do seem to require food and sleep though. It seems unlikely that Alice would fake it just for the sake of the villagers or the siblings. And Sedna has a bed, even though she apparently lives alone in a remote place. They could be highly modified or engineered humans. They could be advanced androids made to mimic humans closely. Judging by Alice's flashback and her armor they seem to have been intentionally made as weapons during the war, and not some effect of the Blink itself.

In the end, there is way to much about their origins left unsaid to say definitively what Alice and Sedna are. All we've seen so far really is what they can do.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 17 Mar 2016, 18:33
Oh, they're all transhumans, in that they clearly have all been modified from natural homo sapiens.

The townsfolk, as far as we know, are still unmodified humans.

Or the Townsfolk are Eloi and Alice's main job is keeping the Morlocks away.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 17 Mar 2016, 21:30
Naaah

Sedna's probably shot all the Morlocks by now.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 17 Mar 2016, 21:37
The Morlocks have bulletproof vests.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: osaka on 18 Mar 2016, 04:30
And Sedna has (or at least had) antitank rifles. I think Sedna wins.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: ThinksTooMuch on 18 Mar 2016, 12:00
Hmmm. Is the swarm just going to followthem, or will it become a genuine threat?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 18 Mar 2016, 12:17
Um... Sedna? Do you have any EMP cannons in your collection. I ask only because I think that The Night Walker has reached a decision about what to do with Gavia and I strongly suspect that she will shortly be doing her tribute to Faye Wray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fay_Wray#Horror_films_and_King_Kong)!

It also occurs to me that Ardent's 'upgrade' nanobots may have been the thing that it's been waiting for all these years (although whoever put them in Ardent didn't know that). A giant monster able to transmute any object on contact? Not a nice thought!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 18 Mar 2016, 13:26
Things are about to pick up

Whether it's Ardent or Gavia that gets picked up is yet to be decided
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 18 Mar 2016, 14:03
I wonder: what happens when Ardent's nanobots come in contact with other nanobots?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 18 Mar 2016, 14:04
There's a brief battle for dominance, then they go look at the moon.

"duuuuuuude... have you ever like. LOOKED at the moon? I mean REALLY LOOKED"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mr.jacob on 18 Mar 2016, 14:33
I wonder: what happens when Ardent's nanobots come in contact with other nanobots?
They create a jellyfish-like metastructure called a nan-'o-war

I'll leave now.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 18 Mar 2016, 15:08
Cracking use of a first post, sir.

And damn, the Night Walker is creepy enough without a thousand more legs.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Mar 2016, 15:29
I'll leave now.
Don't you dare :parrot:

Welcome, newcomer!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mr.jacob on 18 Mar 2016, 16:08
Also, I swear in that first panel Gavia is seconds away from drooling all over Ardent
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Deadcoder on 18 Mar 2016, 21:20
Just a random thought: what if the wipeout wasn't perfect? What if the night walker is a collection of nanomachines from before the wipeout who formed a simple hive mind out of survival instinct?

Perhaps nanotechnology was common prior to the wipe, and the wipe killed off most of the hives of nanomachines. The machines lack basic intelligence on their own, outside of "work with others and follow received tasks", and without a mind capable of interacting with them, such as Gavia or Ardent, are incapable of more. Since most hives were wiped out, the night walker was the culmination of the survivors who came together out of instinct. But with something like those minds, they can thrive. It's also possible that some of the machines are degrading after all these years, and they view Ardent and Gavia as a replacement population or repair potential.

Also, why is it that the night walker's eyes were originally white, and now they're yellow?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Samik on 19 Mar 2016, 00:57
Hey folks. Been reading QC for years, and it's Alice Grove that gets me to register, go figure. Wasn't sold on it at first, but it's winning me over, rapidly.

The reason I registered was because, I also read the forums regularly, and something has been driving me nuts. I don't mean to come in hot, but... don't we pretty much know exactly what Alice and Sedna are at this point? I just went back and did a full read-through in one sitting, and it seems pretty fairly spelled out, to me.

Consider this sequence of pages:
http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b2cf42f0808fc04a71bd2ce1d8e8c07/tumblr_npt9gxuM4r1tl5t55o1_1280.jpg (http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b2cf42f0808fc04a71bd2ce1d8e8c07/tumblr_npt9gxuM4r1tl5t55o1_1280.jpg)
http://40.media.tumblr.com/f051e3691e33746ce448a1c2421702c3/tumblr_ntemouoPtE1tl5t55o1_1280.jpg (http://40.media.tumblr.com/f051e3691e33746ce448a1c2421702c3/tumblr_ntemouoPtE1tl5t55o1_1280.jpg)
http://41.media.tumblr.com/1a3c63aff3054244db2a76f01f4bd5a6/tumblr_nthpqg2wVt1tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://41.media.tumblr.com/1a3c63aff3054244db2a76f01f4bd5a6/tumblr_nthpqg2wVt1tl5t55o1_1280.png)
And then the first panel of:
http://36.media.tumblr.com/b6783ee334fa8ad4b914afd8fe7888b4/tumblr_ny4qdeoJih1tl5t55o1_r1_1280.png (http://36.media.tumblr.com/b6783ee334fa8ad4b914afd8fe7888b4/tumblr_ny4qdeoJih1tl5t55o1_r1_1280.png)

Quote
"Long ago, humanity split into two factions. One favored the advancement of the species by enhancement through biological means. The other favored the development of artificial intelligence, to aid humanity and enhance it through its own methods.

The AI faction pulled ahead - they created truly sentient artificial life, and began integrating it into their society.  This led to a series of regional conflicts that finally escalated into all-out war. It lasted for years. Billions died."
Quote
"I should know. I was a weapon too, once."

Alice and Sedna were the front line weapons of the biological faction - the cutting edge of bio-mods.  Consider also this sequence:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/b2c87fe97f76724a584d3ccca16dce81/tumblr_ns6dn0x02p1tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://40.media.tumblr.com/b2c87fe97f76724a584d3ccca16dce81/tumblr_ns6dn0x02p1tl5t55o1_1280.png)
http://41.media.tumblr.com/38bd61b31b88d16ca3f2ccd36eb18405/tumblr_nsmk7mmvc51tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://41.media.tumblr.com/38bd61b31b88d16ca3f2ccd36eb18405/tumblr_nsmk7mmvc51tl5t55o1_1280.png)
http://40.media.tumblr.com/5bbb34ee51f2ce030911c37bc9b1bf7d/tumblr_nsq6zb9Diq1tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://40.media.tumblr.com/5bbb34ee51f2ce030911c37bc9b1bf7d/tumblr_nsq6zb9Diq1tl5t55o1_1280.png)
http://40.media.tumblr.com/3da859079e7802ec7f8a769478571279/tumblr_nsw9scd2ni1tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://40.media.tumblr.com/3da859079e7802ec7f8a769478571279/tumblr_nsw9scd2ni1tl5t55o1_1280.png)

Alice was on the losing side of a war where "billions died". Those in orbit were on the other side. I'm sure she's got some pretty darned unpleasant memories of that period of time. Her distrust and paranoia are understandable.


Also seems like it would shed a bit of light on Alice and Sedna's relationship. They were comrades in arms, fighting a losing war. They probably went through some rough stuff together, that will keep them connected on some level no matter what disagreements they may have. I can't help but notice that they defaulted to sleeping back-to-back.


Anyway, thanks for humoring me. I have a theory about what is going on in general, and where this story may be headed (and a theory about what the Nightwalker is that excites me very much), but I'm going to hang on a bit, and see what kind of feedback I get on the above first (this is already way more than anyone wants to read). Feel free to rip my speculation to shreds - I can handle it!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Mar 2016, 05:03
Probably partly true. We'll find out eventually. Either way, welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 19 Mar 2016, 08:24
@Samik,

The impression that I got was that the war was ended by a third party, now vanished and the current situation imposed upon the two parties. That's why there is still this feeling that the war could start again because nothing was ever really resolved. Someone just pushed the two sides apart and forced them to stop fighting.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Samik on 19 Mar 2016, 10:44
To be fair, Alice is the only one we have seen express that feeling - that the war could start again at any moment - so far. Gavia is equally convinced she's wrong.

In any case, by "losing the war" I only meant "in the process of losing". I'm imagining that the biologicals were in pretty rough shape leading up to the blink.

I may very well be wrong; Alice's monologue seems to imply that the AI faction "pulled ahead" in the time period before the war; she's not specific about any of the action of the war itself.

But, I think there's some evidence for my assumption here:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/3da859079e7802ec7f8a769478571279/tumblr_nsw9scd2ni1tl5t55o1_1280.png (http://40.media.tumblr.com/3da859079e7802ec7f8a769478571279/tumblr_nsw9scd2ni1tl5t55o1_1280.png)
Alice seems to be admitting that, though she wouldn't go quietly, if push came to shove, the orbital faction would likely win. If a third party truly wanted to create peace, and had the power to perform arbitrarily large and apparently instantaneous edits to an entire world and all its inhabitants, why would they allow to remain a power imbalance that would permit one faction to re-open and win the war whenever they felt like it (or create that imbalance, if the factions were approximately evenly matched beforehand)?





Okay, I'm going to get further into my wild speculation below, if for no other reason than to get it on record, so I can pat myself on the back, or point at myself and laugh, later. (Also, I feel we may be getting some more information on some of it very soon.) This is a lot of text, and I won't be offended in the slightest if no one reads it.

(click to show/hide)

There.  I just threw a lot of crud against the wall.  Let's see if any of it sticks.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: improvnerd on 19 Mar 2016, 17:31
The problem with that theory is that there seems to be more evidence for the biological faction being in space. The praesides seem to be biological, and Ardent shows obvious signs of biological augmentation. Gavia has nanotech (as does Ardent), but seems convinced that sentient AI is impossible.

It also doesn't explain where Alice's armor came from.

Most likely to me is that both earth and habits contain a mixture of both factions.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mr.jacob on 19 Mar 2016, 23:20
On the subject of the Nightwalker, I'd personally believe something closer to Alice's explanation, that they're just lost nanobots, but I have a feeling we're about to find out a whole lot about it so let's hold off there. However, I like your theory about the Praeses using the kids' AI to attract Nightwalker attacks.

There doesn't seem to me to be any reason at all for a re-opening of hostilities.
Alice said that the Praeses have held some unfading grudge since The Blink and want everyone on the ground wiped-out so they can "come down from orbit and reclaim earth"[1] (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/126112043354/at-last-the-central-conflict-of-alice-grove-is)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 20 Mar 2016, 01:23
The problem with that theory is that there seems to be more evidence for the biological faction being in space. The praesides seem to be biological, and Ardent shows obvious signs of biological augmentation. Gavia has nanotech (as does Ardent), but seems convinced that sentient AI is impossible.

I've long held the opinion that the sentient AIs were the cause of the Blink and that they were operating independently of the pro-technology human faction.

Also, just being pro-technology/AI as a road forward does not make that faction unable or unwilling to use genetic augmentation. Even though it's not their choice of means to progress human society doesn't mean that they won't use it for medical or cosmetic reasons.

FWIW, I suspect that those currently on Earth are made up of two groups: Those who had been neutral in the Great War and had just wanted to live their lives without needless complexity and those who had been abused and misused by the factions and would be better off forever out of their grasp, like Alice and the other Super Soldiers.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Samik on 20 Mar 2016, 01:25
@improvnerd, you're not wrong there. There's definitely no certainty at all that it is the biologicals on earth, or that the two factions were split up that way at all.  I guess I'm just making that assumption since the majority of earth's inhabitants appear to be unmodified, and not have much in the way of technology at their disposal.


Anyway, as for the point about Alice's armor, I don't see any reason why it would be a problem if it was non-organic.  Just because the biological faction focused on biological self-modification, doesn't mean they'd instantly abandon use of all mechanical tools.  One side puts a chip in their head to help them aim better, the other side biologically augments their eyes to help them aim better, but they're both still shooting guns. (Speaking generally here. Alice's weapon of choice seems to be her own two hands.) Basically what BenRG said - just because there was an ideological preference towards one type of technology doesn't mean there would be an absolute, hard and fast line, with no blurring or crossover.


@mr.jacob, regarding what Alice said about the Praeses' ideological grudge: she basically admits it's guesswork. (http://40.media.tumblr.com/3da859079e7802ec7f8a769478571279/tumblr_nsw9scd2ni1tl5t55o1_1280.png)

Quote
Alice: The Praeses have been here since the Blink. Their ideological grudge hasn't dissipated with time.
Gavia: We have everything we need in orbit. We have no reason to take over earth.
Alice: You  don't. The Praeses clearly have a motive.
Gavia: You're answering every flaw I point out with another, even more paranoid explanation. You don't know the truth, you're just manufacturing a conspiracy theory out of your own fears and prejudices!
Alice: You may be right. But I can't afford to take any chances.

I like the Alice character, and I think her heart is basically in the right place, but I think Gavia's criticisms are not entirely off the mark here. I'm not prepared to consider Alice an entirely reliable narrator at this point.



I've long held the opinion that the sentient AIs were the cause of the Blink and that they were operating independently of the pro-technology human faction.
This much I absolutely agree with. It's my theory, and I'm sticking to it, that there was a run-away AI scenario, and they ultimately took matters into their own hands.



Edit: Ok, major point that just occurred to me.

Quote
Alice: The Praeses have been here since the Blink. Their ideological grudge hasn't dissipated with time.
If both the orbital and earthbound populations are a mix of both pre-blink factions, then why would the Praeses have an "ideological grudge" against those on Earth at all? The only major ideological schism we've been presented with so far is AI faction vs. bio-mod faction. The only explanation I can see is that one faction stayed on earth and one wound up in orbit.  And I can't see the earth dwellers having been the tech faction.


Edit 2: An exchange (http://41.media.tumblr.com/bd2ca5ad91ac9d8ee2888fcb655a9012/tumblr_njows1RLTB1tl5t55o1_1280.png) that seems to undermine me:
Quote
Alice: So Gavia uses nanotech. Why don't you?
Ardent: Philosophical differences.
Gavia: Technology has been the way humanity has interacted with the universe since before the dawn of time. By embracing it to the utmost, I am human in the truest sense.
Ardent: Whereas I believer that technology insulates us from the universe. It prevents us from experiencing things as we were meant to experience them - through the senses evolution gave us.
Alice: Evolution didn't give you blue skin, pointy ears, and a tail. Or the ability to regrow body parts.
Ardent: There's nothing in the rules that says we can't help evolution along.
That definitely reads as support to improvnerd's position.



Edit 3: May be over-thinking some of this.  It's been 5,000 years. There's no obligation of anyone alive now to have held fast to the ideologies of their predecessors.  Alice/Sedna and the Praeses may have done so to some extent, but the populations at large are probably just folks living as best they can at this point.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 20 Mar 2016, 07:06
FWIW, my call is that the space-dwelling population can trace its ancestry back to both the bio-tech and synthetic-tech factions. However, over five millennia, there has been considerable cross-pollination of ideas and the distinctions between the two factions has faded away leaving a more homogeneous 'Spacebourne' society.

The Earth-dwellers are not necessarily descended from anti-technology groups. They're just descended from those who did not feel strongly enough either way to support either faction (and those who supported neither).

I have no doubt that the immediate post-Blink millennium involved a population crash on Earth. I doubt more than 20% of the population still on Earth post-Blink survived the loss of the technological infrastructure that delivered food, water, shelter and healthcare. The super-soldiers had likely their hands full at that time helping the various communities develop the basic strategies and resources needed to survive.

Given that the Night Walker is attracted to Gavia/Ardent (I think Gavia), and has been staring at the Moon for a long time, surely the reason it stares at the Moon is because it detects nanobots in space?

This is a longshot guess but I'm betting the Sentient AIs set up shop on the Moon (probably suitably below the surface) and the Night Walker, in its combined form, can pick up something from those facilities (maybe radio signals). It might even be that the Night Walker is one of many 'agents' the AIs left behind on Earth to monitor events and that the 'staring at the moon' is the transmit/receive synchronisation as it uploads its latest observations and downloads any new directives.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Samik on 20 Mar 2016, 14:18
Hum. I just do not understand the "ideological grudge" comment if it's not at least the case that Alice thinks the blink performed a segregation of the two pre-blink factions.

Again, I do consider her judgment unreliable, so what she does or doesn't think may not reflect what's actually going on.


My working theory is that the blink segregated the biological faction onto earth and the tech faction into space, while rolling them both back to an earlier period in their history, where they could live in a way that more or less satisfied their prejudices, but kept them technologically crippled enough that the architects could easily control things. (Consider that Gavia's nano-tech didn't even come close to making her a match for Alice. Now, maybe Gavia is just some random girl to Alice's super-solider, but I'm betting that those in orbit, advanced as they are, are still a long ways off from peak human technology.)

In the intervening 5,000 years, the old ideological identities have faded, and someone is at least exploring the idea of a re-integration.


I agree with BenRG that the architects were powerful AI acting independently. And I'm sticking to my prediction that the Nightwalker(s) are a high level observer/control mechanism.



One more thing.
Quote
Alice: Do you ever wonder why, with all of your marvelous technology, there are no truly sentient machines?
Gavia: It's just not possible. The Praeses think, but not like we do, and they're not really machines either.
I read this as the Praeses having their origins in synthetic tech.

1.) Consider what Alice is asking in that first line. According to Alice, only one faction (http://www.alicegrove.com/image/121321270784) had "truly sentient artificial life".  It is (to me) heavily implied that the biotech faction emphasized "advancement of the [human] species by enhancement through biological means", as opposed to developing entirely new and powerful forms of biological life.

2.) So, when Alice asks why there are not "truly sentient machines", she's not asking why there are no instances of peak tech from either faction - she's specifically asking about the AI faction.  In that case, if the Praeses were biological in origin, it would seem strange to me to make such a trivially obvious comment as "they're not really machines".  For example, if the conversation is about instances of strong AI, I'm not going to bother to make a point to disqualify myself - it's trivially obvious that I'm not eligible to be an example, by virtue of being biological.

I think that, while the Praeses were given a physical form that is apparently reminiscent of organic life, they have (or, at least, once had) more in common with synthetics than biologicals.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 21 Mar 2016, 03:42
Poor Ardent seems to have lost a nipple this time...  :psyduck:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 21 Mar 2016, 04:06
No big deal, it'll grow back in a few days.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Morituri on 21 Mar 2016, 15:38
The night walker?  It wants to touch Ardent. 

And transform into some hyper-evolved version of itself, possibly one able to accomplish the purpose it's been unable to figure out for 5K years.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 21 Mar 2016, 16:11
It wants to touch his tra-la-la?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Samik on 22 Mar 2016, 00:24
Deep in the night.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 22 Mar 2016, 02:38
Alice said back when the Nightwalker first appeared she wondered if it had a purpose rendered moot by the passing of Millenia. The fact it reached for Gavia and/or Ardent makes me wonder if there is something about those kids or their nanos which triggered whatever it was designed for.

What confuses me most is why it cares enough to follow them but not enough to hang around or make more of an effort to grab whoever it was after the first time it saw them, when the space kids panicked and hid in the cave. Alice claims it just stopped reaching and continued walking, but I am not sure Alice can be trusted to be completely honest with the pair of them.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 22 Mar 2016, 02:48
For a while, I've wondered about Alice's comment about some technology 'just not working' anymore after The Blink. What if the nanobots that make up the Night Walker were the mechanism that made this happen - Sabotage Nanos that prevented internal combustion reactions or dissolved the microscopic connections in electronic devices? They are now largely dormant but still remain on the look out by sufficiently large concentrations of prohibited sorts of technology to sabotage. Gavia and Arden are just such concentrations.

As sad as it is, this adds urgency to Alice's quest. It is quite possible that the Earth has been made fundamentally inimical to them by the architects of The Blink.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Castlerook on 23 Mar 2016, 13:49
This.....this is going to get painful, isn't it....
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Mar 2016, 13:51
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 23 Mar 2016, 14:11
Uh oh! Black eyes of doom! Something tells me that the next few strips will be 'interesting' in all the wrong way for the characters!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: jheartney on 23 Mar 2016, 14:20
Will Gavia be aware she's been infiltrated by Walker-nanos? Or will her own nanos be neutralized? Or will she become a nano-zombie, and try to kill Ardent? Why didn't it go for Ardent? Is he immunized against the Walker-nanos? Will Gavia try to attack Alice/Sedna? So many questions...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Loki on 23 Mar 2016, 14:33
Welp.
It's half past 10pm here and I was going to sleep tonight. Guess I won't.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 23 Mar 2016, 14:35
Can't sleep. Gray goo will get me.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 23 Mar 2016, 14:46
I assume it went for her because she has the most nanites in her system. Ardent's augmentation is largely biological.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Welu on 23 Mar 2016, 15:02
Dang, that's creepy.

At first I thought it reached for Gavia until we learned about Ardent being able to upgrade things.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: hedgie on 23 Mar 2016, 15:11
Zimmy, did you get a hair cut?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 23 Mar 2016, 15:16
"ALL HANDS BRACE FOR IMPACT!!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 23 Mar 2016, 18:13
OH GOD THERE IS A NANOS INSIDE ME AAAAAAAAAUGH
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Schmee on 23 Mar 2016, 22:19
EYESHADOW OF DOOM ACTIVATED
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Deadcoder on 24 Mar 2016, 22:18
It's going to take forever to get those nanobots out of her fro.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 28 Mar 2016, 12:57
New strip up! (http://www.alicegrove.com/image/141853291244)

Hmmm...

You know, I'm going to make a prediction here. That wasn't Gavia asking Ardent for help. It was the Night Walker. I base this on the glowing red eyes. I suspect that it's been looking for some time for someone whom it can use as communications avatar. The issue will be whether it will be able to get everyone to listen to it before Alice tries to kill it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Mar 2016, 13:03
That was definitely Gavia calling for help. Loons belong to the genus Gavia, and that bird Ardent saw in his dream/vision/telepathic communication/whatever was a loon. Probably a common loon, Gavia immer.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Kugai on 28 Mar 2016, 13:29
It shall be interesting to see which way this goes now.

I'm in two minds over whether that was Gavia calling for help or the Night Walker calling for help through Gavia.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 28 Mar 2016, 13:56
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--9H1Na62d--/1238895886504840879.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 28 Mar 2016, 14:16
So... Gavia was saying "Help, I've been taken over by the Night Walker!" and the Night Walker was saying "Help, I've taken over a loon!"?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: BenRG on 28 Mar 2016, 14:47
So... Gavia was saying "Help, I've been taken over by the Night Walker!" and the Night Walker was saying "Help, I've taken over a loon!"?

Seriously, maybe Gavia is saying: "Help, the Night Walker is in my brain and it's got a terrible warning for you all. Unfortunately, it can't communicate this normally."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: jheartney on 28 Mar 2016, 19:46
Interesting that he space kids have some sort of telepathic link going. (BTW, I'm firmly in the camp of it being Gavia calling for help, and that the nightwalker is fundamentally unfriendly.) I like the hypothesis that the nightwalker is an anti-tech enforcer, going for her nanotech. One way to test this would be to have Ardent upgrade something in the nightwalker's presence, and see if it went after the newly upgraded thing.

Whatever's happening to Gavia, it doesn't seem like a stealth attack; Ardent can tell immediately that something's wrong. Maybe it's like the X-Files black oil virus.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 28 Mar 2016, 20:35
food for thought:

Loon = Looney = went crazy looking at the moon = lunatic = night walker looks at the moon, must be crazy after all these milennia
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 28 Mar 2016, 22:17
Gavia has red nanobot eyes, and Malice did too whilst (presumably) her nanos were activated before she gave up the fight and went back to her usual green eyes.

I am vaguely assuming - and I very much wish to avoid being a Predictasaurus rex type poster here, imposing my tedious headcanon / assumptions / predictions upon others, so please take this with all of the salt grains - that when humans have their nanos engaged in duties such as protection, floating, etc., that this is indicated by red colouration to their eyes. And yup, Alice is different in this regard, as Sedna confirmed some differences between the two despite common vintage without further elaboration or explanation. Similarly whilst Ardent is obviously an adjusted human, the changes made were perhaps genomic or otherwise biological & irreversible (as Sitnspin said) without ongoing nano management, hence no red eyes.

Anyway, the dreamtime Loon bird too had red eyes characteristic of Gavia, and I love that the bird itself is of genus Gavia too. Seems a strong and pointed link to me. By contrast the Nightwalker has no colour to its eye holes at all. On that note I have thought it strange that it assumes anthropomorphic form.

I am curious to see what comes of the whale dreamtime prediction that we have now seen for the second time. I wonder what he / she / it represents?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 29 Mar 2016, 00:31
It's a bird. That's yelling.

Yes.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: mr.jacob on 29 Mar 2016, 11:17
Interesting that he space kids have some sort of telepathic link going.
it might just be sibling empathy or something too. Maybe the nano's are buzzing and Ardent could hear that something's wrong. I guess I don't wanna blame tech for this one until we see stronger telepathy between them
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Pilchard123 on 29 Mar 2016, 12:34
Is that a Martenwhale I see there?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 29 Mar 2016, 13:36

Similar... http://www.questionablecontent.net/2337

previously also dreamed by Ardent in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/131719375964/gojira-reference
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Storel on 29 Mar 2016, 21:45
Ugh... creepy!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 30 Mar 2016, 10:30
I thought the whale tail in Ardent's dreams was kind of obvious.  He's what, 12? 13? 14?

Or maybe I am... :angel:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 30 Mar 2016, 11:31
Augmentation goals.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Pilchard123 on 30 Mar 2016, 14:34
I thought the whale tail in Ardent's dreams was kind of obvious.  He's what, 12? 13? 14?

Or maybe I am... :angel:

I had wondered similar, but thought the joke was perhaps too dated. Apparently not.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 30 Mar 2016, 17:17
I thought the whale tail in Ardent's dreams was kind of obvious.  He's what, 12? 13? 14?

Or maybe I am... :angel:

I had wondered similar, but thought the joke was perhaps too dated. Apparently not.

Um.. please explain? Regarding ages, I've kind of imagined Ardent at around 15 and put Gavia as about 18. (Ish.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 30 Mar 2016, 18:54
Mildly NSFW:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 31 Mar 2016, 15:44
Mildly NSFW:
(click to show/hide)


Ahhhhhh. Thank you! And nowhere near as sordid as I'd suspected.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 31 Mar 2016, 17:53
Actually, the term had an earlier meaning associated with selfies of distorted - um - tails.  The only example I could find was here (http://geekologie.com/2009/05/russian-whale-tails-taking-web.php).  It's relatively work safe. 

Relatively. 

And it seems it was mostly only in Russia, for a brief period about 7 years ago. 



The fact that I recall hearing about it on this discussion board says more about my not knowing when to leave a party than anything else...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: Pilchard123 on 01 Apr 2016, 13:15
Huh, I was thinking more of the expression 'chasing tail'.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 02 Apr 2016, 10:35
Interesting that he space kids have some sort of telepathic link going. (BTW, I'm firmly in the camp of it being Gavia calling for help, and that the nightwalker is fundamentally unfriendly.)

Note that the loon's posture (in addition to reflecting Gavia's normal clothing choice) is similar to this one, which comes with the caption below.
(http://www.wildlifelandtrust.org/assets/images/270x224slideshow/common-loon/common-loon-dance.jpg)

"The dance of the loon (Gavia immer) is a sign of extreme agitation. It is generally combined with frantic calls and is one of the last defense actions available to loons."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - March 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 02 Apr 2016, 14:09
I am pleasantly surprised by the depth of ornithology being put into this comic.