Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: BenRG on 17 Mar 2016, 03:18

Title: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: BenRG on 17 Mar 2016, 03:18
Proposed Alice Grove time-line
All dates are 'BB' - Before Blink, 'AB' - After Blink' or 'BP' - Before in-universe Present. Warning! Contains possible Headcanon!

~100BB - First sentient AIs created;
~75BB - AIs gain full legal recognition as people and significant push-back from anti-technology factions begins;
~60BB - First armed confrontations between pro-technology governments and anti-technology/pro-eugenics ("Radical Green") splinter factions;
~50BB - Radical Greens have now secured significant territories in the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa and the poorer parts of Europe to the point where they are considered nation-states (although not recognised as such by the pro-tech governments of the rest of the world);
~40BB - Great War formally begins (previously, it had been more a prolonged terrorism/counter-insurgency campaign);
~25BB - War reaches stalemate and both sides start looking for ways to tip the balance; the pro- and anti-tech factions both start super-soldier programs intended to create near-indestructible warriors to fight on their side;
~15BB - Alice and Sedna were probably both created at around this time, either lab-grown biodroids or genetically-engineered super-children;
~5BB - War enters its final phase with wide-ranging war crimes and genocides carried out by both sides, most notably by the super-soldiers
1BB - With the war still remaining in stalemate with no side able to sustain an advantage in one area without the other faction getting an advantage in another area, both decide to exercise a 'nuclear option', including nuclear weapons and biological agents; foreseeing the total extinction of intelligent life on Earth, an unknown agency decides to impose a solution that Alice comes to know as 'The Blink';
1AB to ~ 300AB - Amongst those left on Earth after The Blink are a handful of the Super Soldiers from both sides. With the war so effectively ended, none feel any particular desire to continue to fight (those few who do are quickly eliminated by their disgusted peers). After centuries aiding in the rebuilding, they agree to go their separate ways and learn about their new world, promising to keep in touch regarding any particularly interesting discoveries;
First millennium AB - As the more pacific non-augmented humans still on the Earth slowly rebuild into an agrarian society, rejecting high-tech as the cause of what happened to them, the Super Soldiers continue their wanderings. Alice learns much about the ground-rules of this new epoch and also spends several centuries trying to contact the inhabitants of the orbital colonies. She is somewhat successful but the first contact with the colony led by the genetically engineered 'Praesides', Archaeopteris, (actually a dryad-like motile, sentient tree) is not particularly successful. The earthbound hound the 'spacebourne' away, mostly due to their dislike of their highly condescending attitude;
Second to third millennia AB - Alice isolates herself from society; over her more than 10 centuries of life, she's come to realise the full horror of what she'd done during her time as a Super-Soldier and considers herself a dangerous freak, unfit to spend time around ordinary people. In between several elaborate attempts at suicide (either literally or by trying to will herself into a state of mindless catatonia), she also continues her explorations of the Earth, developing a near-encyclopaedic understanding of the rapidly-changing ecosystem around her; during this period Alice has several other contacts with the Spaceborne;
Fourth Millennium AB - Alice stumbles across Sedna, a Super-Soldier from the faction Alice fought against in the Great War. The two have a lot in common (acerbic temper especially). Although their interactions are awkward, both are lonely and agree to accompany each other. In time, this develops into deep friendship and even a strange kind of romance. There is at least one contact between the pair and the Praeses during this time-frame;
Fifth Millennium AB - Alice and Sedna's relationship breaks down due to Alice's continued melancholy and passivity. She would prefer for her and Sedna to set up a home somewhere far from people and just live out their augmented lifespans whilst Sedna wants to continue to do something just to defy those who made them to kill by living a positive life. Eventually, they say hurtful words that can never be unsaid and go their separate ways, both swearing never to forgive the other for breaking their heart.
~300BP - Alice comes across a struggling agricultural community and, subconsciously realising that Sedna was right about the need to remain active and doing positive things, starts subtly helping them with minor technological upgrades and acting as the community's marshal and protector;
~150BP - Jeb's family come to the Town;
~100BP- Amos is born somewhere in the town or its surrounding farmlands;
~18BP - Ardent is born to the Praeses-ruled Spacebourne post-humans;
~15BP - Gavia is born to the Spacebourne.

Comments and thoughts are welcome.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Kugai on 17 Mar 2016, 15:12
It's interesting.

I suspect that it'll need updating constantly though as time goes on and Jeph drops more information about the AG World.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: retrosteve on 17 Mar 2016, 17:59
With what we know so far, this is pretty plausible but too neat and symmetrical to be real in spots:

Proposed Alice Grove time-line
All dates are 'BB' - Before Blink, 'AB' - After Blink' or 'BP' - Before in-universe Present.


~25BB - War reaches stalemate and both sides start looking for ways to tip the balance; the pro- and anti-tech factions both start super-soldier programs intended to create near-indestructible warriors to fight on their side;
~15BB - Alice and Sedna were probably both created at around this time, either lab-grown biodroids or genetically-engineered super-children;
I'm not buying this -- It's hard enough imagining a biodroid that's immune to bullets, aging and molten lava. Imagining both a pro-tech and an anti-tech version, that end up looking very similar and having very similar strengths and vulnerabilities is just bloody unlikely.  I say (Ockham's razor says)  they're both from the same design.

Quote
1BB - With the war still remaining in stalemate with no side able to sustain an advantage in one area without the other faction getting an advantage in another area, both decide to exercise a 'nuclear option', including nuclear weapons and biological agents; foreseeing the total extinction of intelligent life on Earth, an unknown agency decides to impose a solution that Alice comes to know as 'The Blink';

Again, super unlikely to be this symmetrical. ONE side decides to exercise a nuclear option before the other, which may be about to go into a super-bunker or launch itself into space or something -- real life groups just aren't that similar.

Quote

1AB to ~ 300AB - Amongst those left on Earth after The Blink are a handful of the Super Soldiers from both sides. With the war so effectively ended, none feel any particular desire to continue to fight (those few who do are quickly eliminated by their disgusted peers). After centuries aiding in the rebuilding, they agree to go their separate ways and learn about their new world, promising to keep in touch regarding any particularly interesting discoveries;

Super Soldiers from one side: the side that developed them. The superweapons that the other side came up with to fight the Super Solders have been rendered inert by the Blink, but then the other side is no longer present to fight, either.

Quote
Fourth Millennium AB - Alice stumbles across Sedna, a Super-Soldier from the faction Alice fought against in the Great War. The two have a lot in common (acerbic temper especially). Although their interactions are awkward, both are lonely and agree to accompany each other. In time, this develops into deep friendship and even a strange kind of romance. There is at least one contact between the pair and the Praeses during this time-frame;

No need for them to have been opposed. They could have become both friends and enemies even if they were originally in the same elite squadron.  And again, it seems vastly unlikely (and a bit silly) that both tech and anti-tech factions could come up with such similar super soldiers.  Since AIs are forbidden, I'm betting these guys were both among the anti-tech superweapons.

The rest all seems more or less right!
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Method of Madness on 18 Mar 2016, 15:35
If it's about 2005 now in QC, that would put Hannerdad's first AI in the late 1970s, which means the Blink happened around 2080 with the Great War starting around 2040, easily within the QC cast's lifetimes. I'll have to take a closer look at the timeline later.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Mar 2016, 16:59
Oh no, don't get AprilArcus involved with this...

;)
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Kugai on 19 Mar 2016, 00:21
*Starts handing out Fritz Helmets*
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Loki on 19 Mar 2016, 15:20
If it's about 2005 now in QC, that would put Hannerdad's first AI in the late 1970s, which means the Blink happened around 2080 with the Great War starting around 2040, easily within the QC cast's lifetimes. I'll have to take a closer look at the timeline later.
Jeph has said multiple times that QCverse is not Aliceverse...
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Mar 2016, 15:22
Word of god isn't canon.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: pwhodges on 19 Mar 2016, 15:26
Not everyone agrees with the universal application of Death of the Author.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Method of Madness on 19 Mar 2016, 15:31
They don't have to!
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Loki on 20 Mar 2016, 02:32
Let's just say I disagree with you and leave it at that.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Morituri on 22 Mar 2016, 17:52
Word of god isn't canon.

Okay, I see the "like" button.  Where's "dislike?" 

Come on, that's just disrespectful.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Method of Madness on 22 Mar 2016, 18:03
Look, as far as I'm concerned, canon is what's in the comic. I'm not going to throw out a really cool theory just because Jeph doesn't agree with it. I hope he doesn't see it as disrespectful.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Undrneath on 22 Mar 2016, 19:14
And just because Jeph has said something in the past doesn't mean he won't change his mind in the future. So technically canon is both what the author says and what is in the page even if the two don't always match.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Samik on 22 Mar 2016, 20:21
At first, I favored the idea that AG and QC took place in the same continuity, as well.  But, there's a timeline discrepancy, if you trust Alice's word/memory.

Quote
Long ago, humanity split into two factions. One favored advancement of the species by enhancement through biological means. The other favored the development of artificial intelligence, to aid humanity and enhance it through its own methods. The AI faction pulled ahead - they created truly sentient artificial life and began integrating it into their society.[1] (http://www.alicegrove.com/image/121321270784)

In the QC-verse, we already have "truly sentient artificial life", which appears to be well on its way to being "integrated into society". But, according to Alice, this would have taken place after the faction split.  We've seen no evidence of such a split in the QC-verse, nor really a significant amount of (any?) biological enhancement in general.

I don't entirely trust Alice.  But, it seems she'd have to be just straight up 100% wrong about everything in that quote, for the two 'verses to be the same.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 Mar 2016, 02:48
Hmmm...dang it, you're right.
Title: Re: ALICE GROVE - Proposed Timeline
Post by: BenRG on 23 Mar 2016, 03:03
Purely FWIW, I have created theories that suggest Hannelore is a genetic augment (which didn't work so well, hence her mental issues) and that Emily is a bio-droid (a synthetically-grown biological chassis for an AI).

To me, the key to the QC and AG universes being separate is the lack of any obvious violent push-back against AIs and a very obvious attempt by some scientists to propose a biological augmentation 'alternate path'. Alice's recollection of her world's past indicates that this was a very open and ongoing schism in the scientific community well before the creation of the first sentient AI. You would expect the AIs (as well as scientifically-inclined humans like Clinton) to at least mention it on occasion.