Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: Kugai on 01 May 2016, 14:50

Title: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 01 May 2016, 14:50
Another Month rolls around and another Poll is created.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 01 May 2016, 17:31
I suspect Gavia being a nano-free zone will make her even cheerier than before. Massive character growth imminent, however. Looking forward to seeing the aftermath of Nightflyergate.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 02 May 2016, 09:36
So. Many. Questions.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Roborat on 03 May 2016, 11:31
Ummm, looks like team rocket is blasting off again??
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 03 May 2016, 11:38
That is actually a thought... The assumption is that the THOOM was a beam weapon or a signal, and the red light was either the aftermath or a response from either the moon or something in orbit. Which people have pointed out shouldn't be seen by the naked eye from Earth. What if it's neither, but rather the red glow is the ascending glow of some physical object that was launched by the nanobird? We could be seeing a retreating fireball as it tears through the atmosphere at escape velocity.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 May 2016, 19:41
The two weeks are almost up.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 06 May 2016, 12:50
We might also wonder whether Gavia is alive at all, and if so in what sort of state of health, having apparently been dropped from a couple of hundred feet up in the air with a loss of clothing and quite possibly nanotech.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 06 May 2016, 14:14
We might also wonder whether Gavia is alive at all, and if so in what sort of state of health, having apparently been dropped from a couple of hundred feet up in the air with a loss of clothing and quite possibly nanotech.

I suspect that the next volume will start with Gavia opening her eyes and finding that the scary lady isn't so scary when your worst nightmare has come true and she genuinely wants you to be well again.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 06 May 2016, 15:03
I think Gavia will still be alive, but stripped of her Nanotech.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 09 May 2016, 14:49
Aaaand it's Tuesday! Fingers crossed we get strip one, chapter five today; a new chapter for Gavia in many ways.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 May 2016, 15:39
*quietly pines for another comic*
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 09 May 2016, 16:59
We're waiting for it to move Fjord as well.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 09 May 2016, 17:44
*quietly pines for another comic*
Have you tried mutt?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 10 May 2016, 03:08
We're waiting for it to move Fjord as well.
Feelin' blue...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Rimwolf on 10 May 2016, 06:22
"To the MOON, Alice!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 10 May 2016, 07:24
The comic returns...

Where on earth has a duck appeared from?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 10 May 2016, 07:27
It's not a duck, it's a Loon, Latin species name Gavia.

We've seen this bird before, when she telepathically called Ardent for help. I think that it may be her spirit animal and it may be an indication that she has gifts that go far, far beyond those provided by technology.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 10 May 2016, 07:28
Thanks - I'd failed to tie those together.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 10 May 2016, 09:50
There is no more Gavia. There is only Loon Woman.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Verteiron on 10 May 2016, 11:17
Sounds like NW stripped out every last one of her 'bots. If her body can't rebuild them on her own, she has literally the most difficult time of her entire life ahead of her, physically and mentally. Her senses will be limited to the crude ones provided by mere biology; it must feel like being buried in the ground. If her brain was augmented, she may not even have her own identity or memory intact. And no matter how hard she works now, she will never exceed baseline human in ability without somehow re-acquiring her tech.

My guess is once she's strong enough for these realizations to start sinking in, her first response will be a suicide attempt.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 10 May 2016, 14:22
May be? It will be a rough ride, but I somehow get the impression that Gavia is too strong to try a suicide (and Jeph is unlikely to take the story into such a direction). I'm rather hoping something like the Futurama episode where Fry's body+mind were getting enhanced by some micro-organisms (causing Leela to like him), but he enters his body, Fantastic Voyage style, and talks the invaders into letting it be. As in he needs to know whether Leela loves his true self...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 May 2016, 14:22
*quietly pines for another comic*
Have you tried mutt?
I eudora mail client puns
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 10 May 2016, 14:23
Given that the Night Walker ignored him, there is still the question of where Ardent's strange abilities comes from (and whether Gavia has a version of it to fall back on).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 10 May 2016, 14:29
yeah the more we get into this the more I'm thinking that Gavia and Ardent were sent for two very specific purposes by Someone, and it'll take all of Alice's (and Sedna's) savvy and pluck to figure out the big game in time (if she even does)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 10 May 2016, 14:43
I would approve if Jeph made it clear that the Someone has planned this very carefully over a number of decades and made a good enough job of predicting Alice's reactions and abilities that she won't be able to stop the initial phases from going according to plan. It's as things develop and become more chaotic (and thus the outcome of any interaction geometrically more and more difficult to predict) that Alice and her allies will start to derail the Big Bad Plot.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: osaka on 10 May 2016, 15:02
Ok, long shot. What if Ardent was supposed to reboot Gavia after this incident?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 10 May 2016, 15:28
Ok, long shot. What if Ardent was supposed to reboot Gavia after this incident?
I SERIOUSLY doubt it. Gavia's a person, not a machine, no matter what she may of had in her. Plus it's not like she actually needs them to live, she just uses them for everything cause she's lazy. lol

Also, anyone else wondering if Gavia is going to look different now and that's why this page is all blackness, aka what Gavia is currently seeing as she slowly wakes.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 10 May 2016, 17:36
I wonder how she's going to react once she fully awakens and finds she's been stripped of her Nanotech?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 10 May 2016, 22:18
The nightwalker's component nanomachines - including Gavia's - are still around, somewhere.  Just scattered to the winds. 

Will they recognise their former host when she walks by? 


She has a long road to walk - not hover along. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: lawoot on 11 May 2016, 06:36
So does this mean the form the Night Walker took to fire at the moon (or whatever it did) was Gavia's Loon?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 11 May 2016, 06:48
I wonder how she's going to react once she fully awakens and finds she's been stripped of her Nanotech?

The full sequence of grief, I suspect:
After all, Gavia pretty much used her nanotech for everything that she did. She's going to feel like she's been rendered quadriplegic at first!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: KOK on 11 May 2016, 11:31
The nightwalker's component nanomachines - including Gavia's - are still around, somewhere.  Just scattered to the winds. 

Are they? Or were most of them used up in the shot at the moon?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 11 May 2016, 12:51
No, it looks like they dissipated into the atmosphere after she shot that signal to the moon.

Anyone ever consider that the Nightwalker may have been the cause of The Blink in the first place?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 11 May 2016, 14:32
Surely Alice would have known something like that - and her previous laid-back attitude to the Night Walker suggests she didn't see it as that serious a threat.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 11 May 2016, 22:50
I wonder how she's going to react once she fully awakens and finds she's been stripped of her Nanotech?

The full sequence of grief, I suspect:
  • Shock or Disbelief
  • Denial
  • Anger
  • Bargaining
  • Guilt
  • Depression
  • Acceptance and Hope
After all, Gavia pretty much used her nanotech for everything that she did. She's going to feel like she's been rendered quadriplegic at first!

She blamed Ardent for getting them marooned on Earth so if anyone is going to feel the brunt of her anger it will be him.  What will likely keep her going is the hope that the rocket scientists can get her and Ardent home where she can get new nanotech if at all possible. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 12 May 2016, 09:40
A possibility for the next strip (with apologies to J R R Tolkien)

Gavia opens her eyes and everything is a blur for a moment.

GAVIA: "Wh... what...?"

ALICE: "You're safe. This is the clinic that the Archeophiles have at their town around the old Space Centre."

GAVIA: "What... happened...?"

ALICE: "That is a story for later. What matters is this: You've been in a trauma-induced coma for more than six months. It's 23rd December 7055, by the old calendar, a Saturday, for what it's worth. Frankly, we thought that we'd lost you..."

Gavia looks over and we get a look at warmly smiling Alice, long hair restored and wearing something that looks disturbingly like sci-fi BDUs.

ALICE: "But, it seems that Ardent was right; you have a strength in you that goes beyond technology, girl!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 12 May 2016, 10:58
It's quite surreal how the conversation is taking place in pitch duckness.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 12 May 2016, 16:53
I suppose that Gavia is avoiding Peking
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 12 May 2016, 19:20
Everything that happens now is just Gavia's dream.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 May 2016, 19:21
Dream interpretation is tricky.  Is Gavia's spirit animal seeking Ardent, her nanotech, or life itself? 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 12 May 2016, 20:58
Is Gavia telling the loon not to go, or is Ardent telling Gavia not to go?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 12 May 2016, 21:10
Maybe the loon is a representation of her nanos
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 12 May 2016, 21:27
That was my reaction, too. 



So it's probably not right.   :-\
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 12 May 2016, 22:17
Maybe the loon is a representation of her nanos

Or maybe she's just ducking the issues.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 12 May 2016, 23:49
It was definitely Gavia talking to the loon. I'm still guessing that it was her 'spirit animal' of some kind. Maybe it had been holding her to life until her body was sufficiently recovered from the trauma to support itself.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 13 May 2016, 04:26
So it seems I had it backwards. There is no more Loon Woman, there is only Gavia. And I suspect Gavia is going to have a really hard time adjusting to that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 13 May 2016, 14:35
I myself am in the camp that says the Loon represents Gavias Nanotech, so that definitely means she's lost it to The Nightwalker.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: freeman on 13 May 2016, 16:16
Guys, guys... I think you are reading way too much into this.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 13 May 2016, 16:35
Well, yeah. That's what we do here.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 May 2016, 16:41
Yeah, that's half the fun.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 13 May 2016, 21:59
Half? 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 May 2016, 22:24
Give or take fifty percent.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 13 May 2016, 22:37
Regardless of dream interpretation Gavia lost her nanotech.  Maybe it's permanent or perhaps in time she will be able to mentally link with her old nanos and possibly those of the Night Walker making her more powerful.

We know that she lost her ability to fly as well as telekinesis, pyrotechnics, and shield generation, but her nano technology might go beyond that.  Some of her mundane abilities was shutting off noise, but perhaps her augmentation affects her ability to think and other biological processes. 

It's not just potentially debilitating, but humiliating if there are things that she'll have to learn how do like basic hygiene if the nanobots were responsible for cleaning her skin or even regulating her digestive system or for that matter reproductive system.       
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: freeman on 14 May 2016, 02:05
Regardless of dream interpretation Gavia lost her nanotech.  Maybe it's permanent or perhaps in time she will be able to mentally link with her old nanos and possibly those of the Night Walker making her more powerful.
As in she could, when ever she wanted, to call a swarm of old world nanos and become a night walker like super entity. Nice idea, but I kind of doubt it.

We know that she lost her ability to fly as well as telekinesis, pyrotechnics, and shield generation, but her nano technology might go beyond that.  Some of her mundane abilities was shutting off noise, but perhaps her augmentation affects her ability to think and other biological processes. 

It's not just potentially debilitating, but humiliating if there are things that she'll have to learn how do like basic hygiene if the nanobots were responsible for cleaning her skin or even regulating her digestive system
That goes without the saying.

or for that matter reproductive system.       
What?! Oh.... you mean the little thingies would eat her 'troubles' away for her? I don't know if it would be cool or not if Jeph decided to drop hint about it, but how do I feel the cool space people have managed to fix the problem of overt menstruation with means other than nanomachines. Genetic therapy, as in the same stuff ardent has been taking to get his blue skin and regenarating tail.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 14 May 2016, 08:15
or for that matter reproductive system.       
What?! Oh.... you mean the little thingies would eat her 'troubles' away for her? I don't know if it would be cool or not if Jeph decided to drop hint about it, but how do I feel the cool space people have managed to fix the problem of overt menstruation with means other than nanomachines. Genetic therapy, as in the same stuff ardent has been taking to get his blue skin and regenarating tail.

Menstruation could be part of it, but I was thinking about birth control.  The space colonies they originate from would likely be heavily regulated to control the population.  Perhaps that might explain why Ardent wanted to leave so much. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 14 May 2016, 10:58
It doesn't sound like Jeph's thing but, yes, in a story form, it is quite intuitive. It is quite possible that Ardent and Gavia's people have nanobot-regulated reproduction where conception is impossible unless your nanobots are reprogrammed. So, it is quite possible that Gavia could be fertile for the first time in her life... and with a long-term culturally-reinforced mindset where sex and reproduction are totally disconnected. So she could easily get in trouble if she meets a guy she likes because it literally wouldn't occur to her that pregnancy is possible.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: wlewisiii on 14 May 2016, 15:53
A different possible cultural take is that of Beta Colony in the Vorkosigan series. A girl at puberty /menarch is given her contraception implants, pierced ears and a party. After that consensual sex is a given and one does not have children until much later in life when you get a reproduction license. It might be somewhat different with nanotechnology rather than pharmacology but I can see the rituals being similar.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 16 May 2016, 05:08
Well, yeah. That's what we do here.

It is our brand of loonacy after all.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 16 May 2016, 21:21
Whelp, that's a good sign. Gavia's almost back to normal already.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 16 May 2016, 22:33

She blamed Ardent for getting them marooned on Earth so if anyone is going to feel the brunt of her anger it will be him.

Yep, looks like you called it!

Edit: Gavia's irises look pale pink right now, wonder how long that will last.

Indeed and she apparently has enough strength to strangle him.  It's difficult to tell what color her eyes are.  They look more yellowish to me. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 16 May 2016, 23:37
Well, Gavia is at least well enough to react to Ardent in a way that's completely in character!

I want a Giant Bird-pulled cart! They aren't the same species as the forest-dwellers either; these look like giant pigeons. That's a potential form of pigeon, as the Dodo proved adiquately.

The whole set-up looks like a disguise. For some reason, they seem to be pretending to be farmers on the way to the market or something.

P.S.: Did anyone else notice the deliberate mistake: Ardent's magical disappearing shirt in panel 2?


EDIT
Fix's typos
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 17 May 2016, 00:06
Y'know, I kinda wonder if that might actually be her real eye color and the deep red is just the nanites doing. Like how her hair, even when Alice beat her up stayed perfect and round and yet here it is flat and a mess.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 17 May 2016, 00:31
Of course it's his fault!  That's what brothers are for, right?

Continuity error - Ardent is missing his jumper in the second panel. (Oops - already noted)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 17 May 2016, 05:16
He got pre-scared by the possibility of Gavia strangling him, so he took it off. Then put it back on.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 17 May 2016, 05:43
Quite a change of scenery from Sedna's heavily wooded homestead to this desertish region. Wonder for how long Gavia was out? A week, a month? A year? The last option seems unlikely. Sedna and Alice would think nothing about spending a year on the road, but Ardent would be bored to death.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 17 May 2016, 05:48
This is only a guess but I'd say that, given the lack of advanced medical science, it is unlikely that Gavia could have survived a coma lasting more than a week or so. Additionally, last Thursday's strip showed that Alice's hair is still sheared-off short, so enough time for it to have grown out hasn't passed yet.

Additionally they're on a two struthos-power cart, so an average travel speed of up to 3x human walking speed is quite possible. Even just a few days would have been enough to reach the current Savannah biome.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 17 May 2016, 06:52
it is unlikely that Gavia could have survived a coma lasting more than a week or so.

Given that she's not hooked to a saline drip, it's unlikely she was out more than 48 hours. She'd have dehydrated.

...and speaking of which, she's from space, she's deadly pale, and she's riding in skimpy clothes, uncovered, through the hot sunshine, asleep. No nanotech. Shouldn't she have second-degree sunburns by now?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 17 May 2016, 11:24
it is unlikely that Gavia could have survived a coma lasting more than a week or so.

Given that she's not hooked to a saline drip, it's unlikely she was out more than 48 hours. She'd have dehydrated.

...and speaking of which, she's from space, she's deadly pale, and she's riding in skimpy clothes, uncovered, through the hot sunshine, asleep. No nanotech. Shouldn't she have second-degree sunburns by now?

Possibly, but she looks like she was covered by a blanket and maybe Ardent was shading her from direct sunlight since he seems to have kept a vigil this whole time.  There is also the possibility that the environment has so drastically changed after the blink that sunshine doesn't have the same effect it had in ours. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 17 May 2016, 17:02
Well, at least she's awake and somewhat back to normal now  :-D


I'm wondering just how much of a timeskip we actually have here.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 17 May 2016, 20:17
My thoughts are that the Loon was Gavia, and that whilst unconscious she (represented by the loon) was lost in the darkness with some other entity. When the Loon / Gavia left that darkness to wake up, the entity also present in the darkness did not want her to leave it behind. It is the other entity asking her to stay in the darkness instead of returning to consciousness in the real world.

Recall the Loon / Gavia calling to Nano for help whilst he was dreaming, and she was within the grasp of the Nightwalker. Perhaps the Loon is Gavia's avatar of sorts whilst asleep / unconscious / otherwise outside of her physical (Gavia body) self.



Slight error on Jeph's part - he forgot Ardent's shirt in the birdseye view of the cart.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 18 May 2016, 07:11
Well, at least she's awake and somewhat back to normal now  :-D


I'm wondering just how much of a timeskip we actually have here.

I think this is the next day. Just enough time for Sedna and Alice to pack up and saddle the birds. If Gavia had been out longer than one day, they would all be way more worried (Sedna's 'welcome back' is pretty casual) and there would be some kind of dripfeed in her arm.

Also, she wouldn't have the strength to suddenly sit up and strangle Ardent.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 18 May 2016, 11:03
You'd be surprised.  Filial hatred can easily overcome any physical issues, at least momentarily. 




(I threw a refrigerator at my brother once with a broken arm. 


I regretted it immediately, but it happened)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Case on 18 May 2016, 16:44
"Hoboy ..."

The tall, scruffy man leans heavily against the door labelled "WCDT", while an eerie, sobbing cackle penetrates the gloom far more efficiently than the tiny flame fizzling in a leftover puddle of tallow, and fleeting shadows stalk the handful of human forms huddled around an old-fashioned ham radio. A sickly greenish shine throws hollow faces into sharp relief. Occasional thumping, as if heavy objects were hurled against it from the other side, make the heavy blast-proof door shudder and jump against his heaving shoulders ...

"Hello? I'm from ... from the WCDT! We had to leave the place when the Mods closed down the emergency shelters - Me, and Kim, and Beckett ... and Chen ... OhmyGod Chen! They ... we ran, and they ... "


Soot-stained hands tighten around makeshift weapons, sharp-featured faces dancing in the oppressive darkness, skin taut over the bone, the flesh beneath all but melted away by hunger and despair ...

"Can I apply for asylum here? PLEASE???!!? You ... you don't know what's going on out there ... It's ..."

His head whips to the left, as an unusually heavy blast shackes the barrier, feverish gaze trying to pierce the darkness. His voice trails off into silence, and sunken, gleaming eyes stare at the spectres of remembered terror ...

"Please?" His voice cracks ...

"Please ...?" He starts to slide down the face of the door ...

Then pulls himself up, squares his shoulders, and, reaching into his tattered backpack, declaims The Cant, the ancient ritual plea for shelter

"A tired wander seeks sanctuary and sustenance - As tribute to the nekkid Elder Forum Gods, I offer this enchanting vid of a cute otter."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 18 May 2016, 17:50
She blamed Ardent for getting them marooned on Earth so if anyone is going to feel the brunt of her anger it will be him.
Yep, looks like you called it!
Brasca++

I like the idea of the Loon representing nanomachines intruding into both Ardent's and Gavia's subconsciouses, but the red eyes on the loon that came to get Ardent out of his dream make me think that particular loon represented Gavia herself (?)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 18 May 2016, 23:04
She blamed Ardent for getting them marooned on Earth so if anyone is going to feel the brunt of her anger it will be him.
Yep, looks like you called it!
Brasca++

I like the idea of the Loon representing nanomachines intruding into both Ardent's and Gavia's subconsciouses, but the red eyes on the loon that came to get Ardent out of his dream make me think that particular loon represented Gavia herself (?)

I agree that was definitely Gavia and while she was subconsciously reaching out to Ardent to save her consciously she is going to blame Ardent for her predicament and I can't say as I blame her. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 19 May 2016, 09:40
ok so I zoomed way in on http://www.alicegrove.com/post/144277067284/goodbye-loon and it has red eyes too

 Ŋ\_(ツ)_/Ŋ
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 19 May 2016, 10:36
Most loons do.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 19 May 2016, 12:06
as do many birds I just googled... looks like there's nothing to read into here ... sometimes a loon with red eyes is just a loon with red eyes
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 20 May 2016, 13:16
New strip is up. 

I don't know if that's Ardent's blood or hers.  I'll assume it's his, but punching him repeatedly probably winded her to the point that she passed out again.  Looks like Alice will have to wait a few more hours for answers. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 20 May 2016, 13:30
@brasca,

Actually, I think it's mostly hers. I also think that she isn't particularly used to physical effort without her nanobots to back her up. Like I've posted before, she's going to be very, very weak, practically a quadriplegic in some ways until she's built up her physical strength reserves.

Meanwhile, I suspect Ardent is going to have a bloody nose or lip and is going to be more worried about his sister fainting like that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 20 May 2016, 13:40
@brasca,

Actually, I think it's mostly hers. I also think that she isn't particularly used to physical effort without her nanobots to back her up. Like I've posted before, she's going to be very, very weak, practically a quadriplegic in some ways until she's built up her physical strength reserves.

Meanwhile, I suspect Ardent is going to have a bloody nose or lip and is going to be more worried about his sister fainting like that.

Well I know that happened to me once.  I wasn't punching anyone, but it was January, my skin was dry, and I didn't have any gloves.  As soon as I clenched a fist every crack opened up.  Gavia's skin may be that brittle, but if it was I'd think she'd have a lot more bruises after Alice caught her.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 20 May 2016, 19:00
Since Gavia always depended on nanotech, her muscles and bones should have atrophied.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: improvnerd on 20 May 2016, 20:35
Unless the nanotech was tending to them.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 20 May 2016, 21:03
Damn I wonder if Gavia even realizes this is probably the first time she's ever punched anyone. lol

Also seems the pinkish hue may in fact be her natural eye color.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 20 May 2016, 21:37
Wonder if there might be some desperation involved in this.  I know she's mostly in the anger stage, but if she gets enough of Ardent's blood on her she might pick up whatever nanotechnology he's got. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: mikmaxs on 20 May 2016, 21:41
My sympathy for Gavia is waning. She's been dealt a shitty hand, but it really isn't Ardent's fault that she decided to follow him down to earth. Projecting a little anger is reasonable, sure, but when it gets to the point of projecting your fists onto someone else's face because of your own mistakes, that's not a quality character trait.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 20 May 2016, 22:38
Gavia does have some reason to be mad at Ardent for her current predicament. I think if somebody does something really stupid, you try to fix the mess and it backfires the fault isn't all yours and you are entitled to some anger. But she shouldn't be using violence. I'm kind of hoping her current emotional state might give us more information on the exact circumstances that led to her and perhaps Ardent getting down to Earth in the first place. The details have been kind of sketchy, and I would love to know if my theory that they were manipulated by someone more psychologically sophisticated has any merit.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 20 May 2016, 22:49
But she shouldn't be using violence.
Quite in character though. Violence to intimidate the town was first resort when she appeared, violence was imminent when the children set on her, violence in cave with Struthis... Makes  you wonder what sort of society they have up in space.

Perhaps it also says something about us, because supposing you reverse the roles and we had Ardent the violent male and Gavia the likeable sociable female, instead of vice versa, how would that play out to us?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 20 May 2016, 23:03
My sympathy for Gavia is waning. She's been dealt a shitty hand, but it really isn't Ardent's fault that she decided to follow him down to earth. Projecting a little anger is reasonable, sure, but when it gets to the point of projecting your fists onto someone else's face because of your own mistakes, that's not a quality character trait.

No it's not entirely Ardent's fault.  I think the lion share of the blame is the Praeses and whatever they may be conspiring, but they are not here and he is.  Moreover, she found out her brother was doing something forbidden and dangerous and followed him to Earth in an effort to bring him back.  She's even been willing to risk her life knowing full well she was no match for Alice to save her brother.  If she didn't love him then she'd have shrugged his departure off, but she does.  And what has sibling loyalty gotten her?  Marooned in a place she doesn't know and now stripped of the abilities that made her unique all because she did the right thing by trying to save her brother.  Ardent certainly cares for his sister, but it's his carefree attitude that got them into this predicament and she's worse off than he so I can understand her outburst and I don't think it's going to improve any time soon.  Having worked with a woman with disabilities there are some things that are some embarrassing bodily functions that will probably require assistance and constantly remind her what she's lost.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 20 May 2016, 23:18
But she shouldn't be using violence.
Quite in character though. Violence to intimidate the town was first resort when she appeared, violence was imminent when the children set on her, violence in cave with Struthis... Makes  you wonder what sort of society they have up in space.

Perhaps it also says something about us, because supposing you reverse the roles and we had Ardent the violent male and Gavia the likeable sociable female, instead of vice versa, how would that play out to us?

Oh good heavens yes, I'm certainly not going to argue with you there. Certainly in character. Alice Grove is in many ways an interesting foil to QC, as in QC all the characters are basically nice, and I have no doubts that is how Jeph wants people to see them. In Alice Grove, the four current characters who seem to be the protagonists aren't nice and I'm not sure Jeph wants his readers to see them as nice. Ardent is the closest, but I have my doubts sometimes about his inability to see how the pursuit of his own desires impacts on others.

Regarding the space society, it does seem to be one that is considered 'safe'. There was an earlier comic when Gavia expressed doubts about how safe it was for children to walk through the woods to Alice's home. Alice got sarcastic about her concern, but Gavia refused to be baited and said where she was from it was safe for children, but it isn't here.

I always wondered if their society was one in which people pretty much have nothing to do but pursue pleasure (probably because the Praeses do all the actual work and protection). They have no responsibilities, concerns or problems, and so they have never needed to learn skills like discipline, problem solving and coping with adversity. Thus, Ardent arrived thinking it was perfectly acceptable to disrupt the earth society because he wanted a vacation and was genuinely surprised when a girl slapped him for asking three minutes after they met if she wanted to fuck. And Gavia arrived thinking violence was the best solution for finding Ardent and getting home, and violence is the best way to express her current dissatisfaction with her life.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 21 May 2016, 08:01
But she shouldn't be using violence.
Quite in character though. Violence to intimidate the town was first resort when she appeared, violence was imminent when the children set on her, violence in cave with Struthis... Makes  you wonder what sort of society they have up in space.

Perhaps it also says something about us, because supposing you reverse the roles and we had Ardent the violent male and Gavia the likeable sociable female, instead of vice versa, how would that play out to us?

Oh good heavens yes, I'm certainly not going to argue with you there. Certainly in character. Alice Grove is in many ways an interesting foil to QC, as in QC all the characters are basically nice, and I have no doubts that is how Jeph wants people to see them. In Alice Grove, the four current characters who seem to be the protagonists aren't nice and I'm not sure Jeph wants his readers to see them as nice. Ardent is the closest, but I have my doubts sometimes about his inability to see how the pursuit of his own desires impacts on others.

Regarding the space society, it does seem to be one that is considered 'safe'. There was an earlier comic when Gavia expressed doubts about how safe it was for children to walk through the woods to Alice's home. Alice got sarcastic about her concern, but Gavia refused to be baited and said where she was from it was safe for children, but it isn't here.

I always wondered if their society was one in which people pretty much have nothing to do but pursue pleasure (probably because the Praeses do all the actual work and protection). They have no responsibilities, concerns or problems, and so they have never needed to learn skills like discipline, problem solving and coping with adversity. Thus, Ardent arrived thinking it was perfectly acceptable to disrupt the earth society because he wanted a vacation and was genuinely surprised when a girl slapped him for asking three minutes after they met if she wanted to fuck. And Gavia arrived thinking violence was the best solution for finding Ardent and getting home, and violence is the best way to express her current dissatisfaction with her life.

They do seem to lack social skills, but Gavia's intention was to scare away people so she could retrieve Ardent.  If she was indifferent to loss of life she'd have used deadly force from the beginning.  And in addition to the aforementioned concern for children being in a dangerous forest she was also shaken by having to kill that chameleon to save Ardent.  Perhaps her original intention was just sneak into the village and bring Ardent back.  Given the many technological tricks she had I wouldn't be surprised if she had an invisibility field, but perhaps the Praeses advised that shock and awe would be more effective because they knew what would happen. 

Gavia should be blaming them since they do not appear as benevolent as she thinks.  However, the Praeses are like parents or even living gods who she's trusted her entire life.  With everything else that's happened to her such betrayal would be unbearable so she probably doesn't want to even think about it.  However, she and Ardent have a history of sibling quarreling so of course he's going to feel the brunt of her wrath.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: mikmaxs on 21 May 2016, 08:33
This raises the question: What did Gavia actually lose? We know nothing about their life pre-comic. Did they have friends? Family? What were their jobs?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 21 May 2016, 09:33
FWIW, it is possible that Ardent and Gavia's culture do not have nuclear families. Why shouldn't children be raised the KPAX way by the entire community? That way, you don't have any of this potentially discord-generating loyalty to clans or anyone other than the community as a whole (and the Praeses, who give them everything they think that they want).

What I'm saying is that they may have never known their parents because their parents were totally uninvolved with their upbringing because in the Praeses 'perfect society', parents are an impediment to the social order.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 21 May 2016, 10:15
FWIW, it is possible that Ardent and Gavia's culture do not have nuclear families. Why shouldn't children be raised the KPAX way by the entire community? That way, you don't have any of this potentially discord-generating loyalty to clans or anyone other than the community as a whole (and the Praeses, who give them everything they think that they want).

What I'm saying is that they may have never known their parents because their parents were totally uninvolved with their upbringing because in the Praeses 'perfect society', parents are an impediment to the social order.

Sounds similar to the genetically engineered society in Brave New World although Ardent seems to be the only one that is sexually active as well as immodest.  I think Alice is the one that wants him to wear more than those red shorts.  I don't know how prudish or libertine the space habitats are, but if Gavia is just the opposite of her brother she won't be pleased to know that her dress disappeared with her nanotech. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 21 May 2016, 11:06
Quite in character though. Violence to intimidate the town was first resort when she appeared, violence was imminent when the children set on her, violence in cave with Struthis...

"All right, fine, it's true, she's not a demon. She's an asshole. "
--Alice
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Verteiron on 21 May 2016, 15:31
Her reaction isn't helpful or fair to Ardent, but it's also hard to blame her for lashing out. She's terrified, bereft of what are to her basic functions.  People do insane things when they're scared.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 22 May 2016, 00:51
Well I know that happened to me once.  I wasn't punching anyone, but it was January, my skin was dry, and I didn't have any gloves.  As soon as I clenched a fist every crack opened up.  Gavia's skin may be that brittle, but if it was I'd think she'd have a lot more bruises after Alice caught her.   

That was (probably) due to the cold. The same thing happened to me on that one occasion I tried  ice swimming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_swimming). It was at a party of my junior high school class. We heated up the sauna, and sawed a hole to the ice covering the sea. I only took a quick dip, but after I got up my skin was so brittle that the lightest touch on the shins would crack open a capillary. Other guys noticed the same thing. The problem disappeared quickly after we warmed up again, so we thought nothing of it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 22 May 2016, 07:02
Her reaction isn't helpful or fair to Ardent, but it's also hard to blame her for lashing out. She's terrified, bereft of what are to her basic functions. 

She just opened her eyes and sat up. She might not even KNOW she's lost her nanotech yet... (Though if she had a Terminator-style heads-up display, it's obviously gone.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 22 May 2016, 08:48
I suspect that Gavia was fully and agonisingly aware of what happened to her in the Night Walker's grasp. I strongly suspect that she knows what happened to her; I suspect that it was such a traumatic experience that she has a hard time being aware of anything but what happened to her that night.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 22 May 2016, 10:26
I suspect that Gavia was fully and agonisingly aware of what happened to her in the Night Walker's grasp. I strongly suspect that she knows what happened to her; I suspect that it was such a traumatic experience that she has a hard time being aware of anything but what happened to her that night.

Yeah, it could go that way too!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 22 May 2016, 11:42
Her reaction isn't helpful or fair to Ardent, but it's also hard to blame her for lashing out. She's terrified, bereft of what are to her basic functions.  People do insane things when they're scared.

It's preferable too.  At worst Ardent will have a bloody nose from this which he can quickly recover from, but words hurt a whole lot more.  It's not over yet since she passed out so she may have a lot more to say to him, but suppose instead of hitting him she said things that can never be taken back like how she wishes she didn't have a brother or she will never again be his sister even if they make it back to the space habitat.  That would wound him more than any punch to the face.   

If I was partially responsible for my sister's traumatic experience I'd take a beating over disowning any day. 

There's a lot we don't know about this technology.  Perhaps it can be replaced and this is just a temporary inconvenience, but maybe those implants cannot be installed again if removed and her situation is permanent.  There's also what happened while she was merged with the Night Walker.  Perhaps she learned about its purpose and if the Praeses are involved and now knows that she and Ardent will never make it back home because of whatever scheme they have designed. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 22 May 2016, 12:37
She might not even KNOW she's lost her nanotech yet...
I suspect that finding herself lying on a blanket rather than floating in mid air would have been a pretty solid clue.

Now if you want a bizarre mental picture, consider: had she still been floating in mid air, how would they have brought her along with the cart?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 22 May 2016, 16:02
"I think I'm in love" - Punchbot
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 22 May 2016, 16:38
She might not even KNOW she's lost her nanotech yet...
I suspect that finding herself lying on a blanket rather than floating in mid air would have been a pretty solid clue.

Now if you want a bizarre mental picture, consider: had she still been floating in mid air, how would they have brought her along with the cart?

Simple - tie a rope to her ankle and tow her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: jheartney on 22 May 2016, 18:48
I should think the nanotech has a backup up in orbit, and that Gavia could be dosed with blank nanites which would be flashed with the old backup memory. Or maybe the nanotech is impregnated into her old smock, so all she needs to do is get a replacement and put it on.

But all that can only happen if she gets back home. If she and Ardent are stuck planetside for the foreseeable future, she'll be without this essential part of herself for a long time. Kind of like one of us losing one of our senses.

Perhaps the Nightwalker is just a tech "guard dog" meant to snuff out any un-allowed tech on the planet's surface. if expunging Gavia's nanotech has made it vanish, then Ardent and Gavia are a one-two punch meant to upset the pre-existing low-tech order on Earth:  Gavia neutralizes the guard dog, and Ardent spreads the virus of new tech. It would explain why they were both allowed to come down, and why their calls for return were ignored.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 22 May 2016, 21:18
COMIC

And she knows!!

And in a sense, Gavia is kinda right.  After all, if Ardent had'nt come down Planetside and if Gavia hadn't been talked into coming after him, then it wouldn't have happened.

When one looks at it that way, one can understand Gavias violent reaction to what has happened to her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Verteiron on 23 May 2016, 09:18
There's a lot we don't know about this technology.  Perhaps it can be replaced and this is just a temporary inconvenience, but maybe those implants cannot be installed again if removed and her situation is permanent.  There's also what happened while she was merged with the Night Walker.  Perhaps she learned about its purpose and if the Praeses are involved and now knows that she and Ardent will never make it back home because of whatever scheme they have designed.

To speculate wildly, I'm going to guess that Gavia's "Nanotech" is Utility Fog/Smartdust that the user customizes heavily over the course of years. So even if the physical 'bots can be replaced on earth (or regrown, if even a single one survived), she may still have retrain them to respond to her commands and deliver the feedback she's grown used to expecting. Presumably she has backups in orbit, but that's not much help at the moment...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 May 2016, 13:04
COMIC
Is it the punchy one? Because I'm not seeing a new one.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 23 May 2016, 14:57
Yeah, it's the one where Gavia is punching the crap outta Ardent.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 23 May 2016, 19:03
Oh ok. You got my hopes up that there was a newer one.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: ThePerilsOfDan on 24 May 2016, 05:40
zomg, is Gavia going to beat Ardent to death?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 24 May 2016, 05:49
zomg, is Gavia going to beat Ardent to death?

More likely, she'll hit him a few times, suddenly get enormous cramps in her atrophied arm muscles (because she's too used to her nanobots doing the work) and be nearly knocked unconscious by the pain. That won't stop her but I suspect that she'll end up being hog-tied by Alice and/or Sedna and told that they're not letting her go until she stops being stupid because she's injuring herself more than she is Ardent.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Verteiron on 24 May 2016, 11:23
More likely, she'll hit him a few times, suddenly get enormous cramps in her atrophied arm muscles (because she's too used to her nanobots doing the work) and be nearly knocked unconscious by the pain.

That's a good point. Even Ardent, a nanotech minimalist, uses it to block pain out to the point that he didn't notice a severed limb until it was pointed out to him. There's a real chance that she's not felt any actual pain in years, maybe decades.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 24 May 2016, 14:23
fwiw:
[tweet]734829761722089474[/tweet]
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 26 May 2016, 13:43
More likely, she'll hit him a few times, suddenly get enormous cramps in her atrophied arm muscles (because she's too used to her nanobots doing the work) and be nearly knocked unconscious by the pain.

That's a good point. Even Ardent, a nanotech minimalist, uses it to block pain out to the point that he didn't notice a severed limb until it was pointed out to him. There's a real chance that she's not felt any actual pain in years, maybe decades.

She looked pretty sore when Alice duffed her up at their first meeting! Still, she didn't stay that way for long..
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 26 May 2016, 22:07
More likely, she'll hit him a few times, suddenly get enormous cramps in her atrophied arm muscles (because she's too used to her nanobots doing the work) and be nearly knocked unconscious by the pain.

That's a good point. Even Ardent, a nanotech minimalist, uses it to block pain out to the point that he didn't notice a severed limb until it was pointed out to him. There's a real chance that she's not felt any actual pain in years, maybe decades.

She looked pretty sore when Alice duffed her up at their first meeting! Still, she didn't stay that way for long..

Hopefully, she has some of the genetic modifications Ardent has that are independent of nanotechnology so she can physically recover from this quicker than a baseline human in the same situation.  Otherwise she'll be immobile for the next few strips as well as vulnerable to disease although if she survived the previous ordeal I doubt the author would kill her with an illness. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 May 2016, 06:58
...Ardent [blocked] pain out to the point that he didn't notice a severed limb until it was pointed out to him.
Maybe, but we could also speculate about limitations of the bio-engineered tail... Where are the nerves going to end up at for instance? If the bio engineering merely extends the nerves in the coccyx then they might be pretty sparse over the whole length... I wonder if Alice went back to find Ardent's tail for him and sewed it on, or whether he grew a whole new one, and if the latter whether anyone picked up the old one and what they did with it (preserved, stuffed, and used as draught excluder?).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 27 May 2016, 12:04
Comic is up!

If Gavia could sleep for 3 weeks then she's definitely genetically altered.  As such she might recover physically at a faster rate, but could struggle with some PTSD.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 27 May 2016, 12:10
Sedna seems to be an extraordinarily cheerful person when she isn't shooting at Alice.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 27 May 2016, 13:25
Opposites attract??

So now we know the length of time of the Timeskip.  At least Ardent is taking some responsibility for the mess that he and his sister are in.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 27 May 2016, 14:12
Sedna seems to be an extraordinarily cheerful person when she isn't shooting at Alice.

Sedna was grinning all while fighting Alice too. I just thing she's one of those people who finds joy in the oddest of places!

So... was Gavia in a healing trance; practically a state of suspended animation whilst her body put itself back together somehow? Does that imply that there is a second level to her augmentation that the Night Walker couldn't touch?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 27 May 2016, 14:33
...Where are the nerves going to end up at for instance?...

for that matter, why even have nerves in something that's just an ornament and is going to be banging into stuff all the time anyway
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 May 2016, 14:34
...a second level to her augmentation that the Night Walker couldn't touch?
Or didn't need to touch perhaps?
But in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/115986771824/kids-these-days Ardent at least implies that the space population is not "baseline human" and that they are all long lived. I suggest that implies the space population are all augmented above baseline human, whatever that is, as well as having a variety of choices beyond that, where Gavia had the nano machines and Ardent apparently some kind of biological engineering.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 May 2016, 14:35
for that matter, why even have nerves in something that's just an ornament and is going to be banging into stuff all the time anyway
'cos you need to know if you've shut your tail in the door [grin]
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 27 May 2016, 14:55
for that matter, why even have nerves in something that's just an ornament and is going to be banging into stuff all the time anyway
'cos you need to know if you've shut your tail in the door [grin]
unless you've designed it with autotomy... then it wouldn't matter if you just caught the tail end of it :clairedoge:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 27 May 2016, 17:05
I vote the last panel for best panel ever.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 27 May 2016, 18:08
...a second level to her augmentation that the Night Walker couldn't touch?
Or didn't need to touch perhaps?
But in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/115986771824/kids-these-days Ardent at least implies that the space population is not "baseline human" and that they are all long lived. I suggest that implies the space population are all augmented above baseline human, whatever that is, as well as having a variety of choices beyond that, where Gavia had the nano machines and Ardent apparently some kind of biological engineering.

Perhaps they are both the product of biological engineering.  It seems like something that would have to be done in the embryonic stage, but then again this is technology thousands of years more advances so I suppose Ardent could have opted for genetic mutation when he was older.  However, if Gavia were just a baseline human melded with nanotechnology she could never survive being unconscious that long so it's likely that she, Ardent, and other space dwellers are genetically enhanced to a certain extent and then free to make choices as to how much further they want to go in evolution.  Gavia favored technological augmentation as a philosophical choice so I can see yet another reason for Gavia to resent Ardent.  This chain of events has inadvertently forced his own philosophical beliefs on her.

At least she might not have to struggle to long to adapt.  It's quite possible her muscles have already regained strength, but she might have to learn how to walk because it's been so long since she did.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 28 May 2016, 11:15
I'm relatively ignorant about physiology, but I would guess that there are nerves (to muscles) in Ardent's tail. Could he otherwise wag it delightfully? (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/102938849739/its-delightful)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: freeman on 29 May 2016, 04:37
This amount of lampshade hanging about "metabolic stasis" in today's page is a proof that Jeph still reads this forum and also he's trolling us pretty hard.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 May 2016, 10:36
He hasn't logged in in almost two months.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Undrneath on 29 May 2016, 10:47
Doesn't mean he hasn't read the forums as a "guest".
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: hedgie on 29 May 2016, 10:59
This may only be the *nix guy in me talking, but I also do primarily use a non-privileged account for daily use and only log in as root when I need to do root stuff.[1]  Perhaps Jeph does something similar her.




[1]okay, that's a lie.  I never actually login as root, I just su over.  sudo is for *buntu and Mac users.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 29 May 2016, 11:26
Doesn't mean he hasn't read the forums as a "guest".
Or perhaps he has a sock puppet? Can you spot a user who's maybe directing or stirring threads in a way you might think our author would want to?

But, just possibly, its simply that our speculations are in rather obvious directions...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 29 May 2016, 11:42
Only on occasion do I direct threads toward butts...

...uh, I mean, I know absolutely nothing about any sock puppets directing conversation toward butts. Nothing whatsoever.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 29 May 2016, 12:05
This amount of lampshade hanging about "metabolic stasis" in today's page is a proof that Jeph still reads this forum and also he's trolling us pretty hard.

I don't know about that.  This is a webcomic that involves a lot of science fiction and it's highly plausible since it's about 5000 years into the future.  Moreover, it's a convenient way to allow for the passage of time as well as bypass what was likely to be a long recovery process.  If Gavia's body has healed from the physical trauma of having so much of the technology that was a part of her removed then we'll be spared weeks of strips involving physical therapy. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 29 May 2016, 15:32
Doesn't mean he hasn't read the forums as a "guest".
Or perhaps he has a sock puppet? Can you spot a user who's maybe directing or stirring threads in a way you might think our author would want to?

We can see IP addresses, for instance.  And we also know what he has in the past told us behind the scenes about how he views the Questionable Content forum.  But note also (as this is the Alice Grove subforum) that he has not acknowledged this as an Alice Grove forum at all - there's no link from the comic to here.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Timemaster on 29 May 2016, 22:38
Hmm, three weeks unconcious and they havenīt even changed her clothing?
I hope they have washed it (and her) regularly all this time. Otherwise Gavia will have gotten some nasty skin problems.

TM
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 30 May 2016, 02:34
Doesn't mean he hasn't read the forums as a "guest".
Or perhaps he has a sock puppet? Can you spot a user who's maybe directing or stirring threads in a way you might think our author would want to?
We can see IP addresses, for instance. 
I assumed Mods would know - and also that standard moderatorial ethics would prevent you from confirming or denying... It was a speculation for us plebs...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 30 May 2016, 09:17
Hmm, three weeks unconcious and they havenīt even changed her clothing?
I hope they have washed it (and her) regularly all this time. Otherwise Gavia will have gotten some nasty skin problems.

TM

Difficult to say since I don't see how she could drink or eat while she was in metabolic stasis and yet she is not skin and bones.  As such I don't think she'd sweat or expel any other waste.  At least I hope not because the poor girl has gone through enough.  Knowing that Alice or worse yet Ardent was giving her sponge baths while comatose would just be another grievance to add to the pile. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 30 May 2016, 12:42
Strip is up!

It would seem that in addition to her being able to physically heal Gavia has miraculously coped with her loss quickly enough.  The wonders of genetic engineering.

Good for her.  I wasn't really looking forward to a whole bunch of strips with her mopey and depressed.  She's determined to get back home and get what she lost. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: hedgie on 30 May 2016, 12:46
Or she may be bottling it up. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Welu on 30 May 2016, 14:35
I'm impressed by Gavia. I assume she is still hurt and upset about get nanotech, but also feels it's a waste of time to spend time worrying about what currently cannot be remedied. Considering how she came down to get Ardent, it seems like she is the type to want to do something instead of thinking about it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 30 May 2016, 15:14
It clearly is still something that hurts her but it's possible that she's strongly a 'no point crying over spilt milk' person. I also think that she's smart enough to realise that, in all probability, she has bigger problems than her apparently-destroyed enhancements. Such as precisely what the Night Walker may have set in motion.

Less positively, she may have an attitude of 'I am the tough, powerful and rational one' that's leading to her trying to suppress her emotions. That might mean that she's just storing the stress up for a later break-down.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 30 May 2016, 15:30
It's also possible that a lot more time expired between Alice's "It seems so" and her query, "What have I missed?"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 30 May 2016, 15:32
I think she just wants to know everything that's happened before she goes to pieces - get it all in one hit and get it over with.

But yes, she seems to have either taken the loss of her Nanotech in stride or she's in a kind of denial about it at this stage.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: TheCollector on 30 May 2016, 16:04
Nuuuuuuu, Gavia is so precious in those bottom three panels I need to hug her. Since when was she so adorable?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 30 May 2016, 17:01
It's also possible that a lot more time expired between Alice's "It seems so" and her query, "What have I missed?"

Perhaps, but the sky is the same color in both panels so either she wept 24 hours straight or just a few hours which considering her ordeal is still remarkably quick. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Storel on 30 May 2016, 17:35
Incredibly white skin, pink eyes -- if her hair was white instead of black, I'd say Gavia was probably an albino.

I suppose it's possible that she has no skin pigment or iris pigment, yet for some reason still has hair pigment, for Super Science Reasons having to do with enhanced biochemistry + nanos. Come to think of it, though, if she had no skin pigment then her skin should have a kind of pinkish glow, due to blood in her capillaries actually showing through the skin.

So I'm not sure what the bone-white skin coloration is supposed to indicate about her. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 30 May 2016, 17:52
Incredibly white skin, pink eyes -- if her hair was white instead of black, I'd say Gavia was probably an albino.

I suppose it's possible that she has no skin pigment or iris pigment, yet for some reason still has hair pigment, for Super Science Reasons having to do with enhanced biochemistry + nanos. Come to think of it, though, if she had no skin pigment then her skin should have a kind of pinkish glow, due to blood in her capillaries actually showing through the skin.

So I'm not sure what the bone-white skin coloration is supposed to indicate about her. Any ideas?

None, but if Ardent can be blue then I don't see why Gavia can't be pale white. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: hedgie on 30 May 2016, 19:33
Gavia has pigment in her skin.  In her case, however, it is titanium dioxide.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Tova on 30 May 2016, 19:53
She's pushed it aside. That doesn't mean that the reality and pain of it won't strike again at odd moments to come.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 30 May 2016, 22:54
Not denying Gavia's pain or anything that has been said about it. But I think that
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 30 May 2016, 22:55
Come to think of it, though, if she had no skin pigment then her skin should have a kind of pinkish glow, due to blood in her capillaries actually showing through the skin.

Which is how she's shown.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Timemaster on 30 May 2016, 23:31
Difficult to say since I don't see how she could drink or eat while she was in metabolic stasis and yet she is not skin and bones.  As such I don't think she'd sweat or expel any other waste.  At least I hope not because the poor girl has gone through enough.  Knowing that Alice or worse yet Ardent was giving her sponge baths while comatose would just be another grievance to add to the pile.

After three weeks without drinking and eating she would not only be skin and bones, but also six feet under the ground. Without drinking you die within a few days. There is no sign of intravenal nourishment, so the group must have gotten something into her. Water and soup, likely. A rather messy process with an unconcious person. And yes, there must have been some bodily waste. So cleaning her has been unevitable.

Caring for an unconcious person outside a hospital is a very difficult and unpleasant process, a fact mostly ignored by writers in fiction. A word that immediately comes to my mind here is "diapers". So I donīt blame Jeph for ignoring it too.

But the picture of Gavia crying really got me today. The pain of loss must be overwhelming for her, so I rather go for denial here.
The artwork is really impressing. Jeph made an excellent job of illustrating Gavias emotions and pain here. Billiant!

TM
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 31 May 2016, 07:16
Difficult to say since I don't see how she could drink or eat while she was in metabolic stasis and yet she is not skin and bones.  As such I don't think she'd sweat or expel any other waste.  At least I hope not because the poor girl has gone through enough.  Knowing that Alice or worse yet Ardent was giving her sponge baths while comatose would just be another grievance to add to the pile.

After three weeks without drinking and eating she would not only be skin and bones, but also six feet under the ground. Without drinking you die within a few days. There is no sign of intravenal nourishment, so the group must have gotten something into her. Water and soup, likely. A rather messy process with an unconcious person. And yes, there must have been some bodily waste. So cleaning her has been unevitable.

Caring for an unconcious person outside a hospital is a very difficult and unpleasant process, a fact mostly ignored by writers in fiction. A word that immediately comes to my mind here is "diapers". So I donīt blame Jeph for ignoring it too.

But the picture of Gavia crying really got me today. The pain of loss must be overwhelming for her, so I rather go for denial here.
The artwork is really impressing. Jeph made an excellent job of illustrating Gavias emotions and pain here. Billiant!

TM

Absence of an intravenous drip it would have to be water and soup if that's even possible for a group that's not looking after her in a primitive hospital, but traveling in a wagon.  Even if it was possible to feed and keep her hydrated she would be extremely emaciated, but aside from her hair being mussed up and circles under her eyes she's about the same size and weight she was 3 weeks ago.  Moreover, her clothes lack any dribble stains and she looks to be wearing the same shorts she had on when she lost her frock not a diaper. 

Perhaps the metabolic stasis is matter of plot convenience, but I accept it since this is someone who's had 5000 years of augmentation and could recover from something that would kill a normal human.

But I do agree that Jeph has excellently illustrated Gavia's emotional pain.       
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: freeman on 31 May 2016, 11:56
Moreover, her clothes lack any dribble stains and she looks to be wearing the same shorts she had on when she lost her frock not a diaper. 


Well, ardent is also sporting the same briefs he had when he came. Maybe they are self-cleaning.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 31 May 2016, 14:11
I for one am unconvinced a few frames of sick room nursing would have advanced the plot very much, and I am grateful to have been spared the graphics.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 31 May 2016, 14:44
"If you wonder how he eats and breathes
and other science facts (tra-la-la)
Just remind yourself 'It's just a show,
I should probably relax'..."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 31 May 2016, 16:05
We've got movie sign!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 31 May 2016, 17:06
Good Neko. You get a cookie.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 31 May 2016, 17:36
yay a cookie! nom nom nom
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Jun 2016, 11:45
Moreover, her clothes lack any dribble stains and she looks to be wearing the same shorts she had on when she lost her frock not a diaper. 


Well, ardent is also sporting the same briefs he had when he came. Maybe they are self-cleaning.

Possibly.  I remember a story line in Times Like This where time traveler Cassie Wells discovers that people in the future wear underwear that is self cleaning which makes using the toilet unnecessary, however, I believe this was possible through nanotechnology so if the Night Walker took everything Gavia had on her person it probably took any that were in her clothes.  It took her frock so I assume so. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BlueFatima on 05 Jun 2016, 07:44
Strip is up!

It would seem that in addition to her being able to physically heal Gavia has miraculously coped with her loss quickly enough.  The wonders of genetic engineering.

Good for her.  I wasn't really looking forward to a whole bunch of strips with her mopey and depressed.  She's determined to get back home and get what she lost.

I think it's a miracle she can move as well as she can. My sister was in and out of consciousness for 2 weeks at a hospital and had to have rehab throughout the summer to properly walk again. Some of it was because she had broken her arm, too, but she really did need a lot of help getting around for a bit.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BlueFatima on 05 Jun 2016, 07:51

After three weeks without drinking and eating she would not only be skin and bones, but also six feet under the ground. Without drinking you die within a few days. There is no sign of intravenal nourishment, so the group must have gotten something into her. Water and soup, likely. A rather messy process with an unconcious person. And yes, there must have been some bodily waste. So cleaning her has been unevitable.

Caring for an unconcious person outside a hospital is a very difficult and unpleasant process, a fact mostly ignored by writers in fiction. A word that immediately comes to my mind here is "diapers". So I donīt blame Jeph for ignoring it too.


I was thinking/wonderin the same... But since this is sci-fi the theories as to why are endless.

Perhaps the shock of nanobots leaving her body temporarily slowed/stopped her metabolic state. She may also had been partially conscious—enough to eat/drink, but not to talk or be coherent. As for diapers? Perhaps she's wearing them. If we are far enough in the future for fancy weapons and nanobots and super-enhanced (possibly immortal) ladies, I would not be surprised if someone had a stash of futuristic super-thin adult dipes kicking around for emergencies.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Storel on 19 Jun 2016, 21:46
Come to think of it, though, if she had no skin pigment then her skin should have a kind of pinkish glow, due to blood in her capillaries actually showing through the skin.

Which is how she's shown.

Maybe on your monitor, but I'm not seeing it. She looks pure white to me.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Jun 2016, 13:17
May's over, Benergy.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Jun 2016, 15:43
Maybe on your monitor, but I'm not seeing it. She looks pure white to me.

I used a colour checker (browser add-in) on her face: #FFEDE1 (= R:255, G:237, B:225) - clearly pink.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: JimC on 20 Jun 2016, 16:07
... clearly pink.
More a sort of tan colour if you ask me...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Jun 2016, 16:11
Paul - You sure you didn't check her eyes instead of her skin?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 20 Jun 2016, 22:18
... clearly pink.
More a sort of tan colour if you ask me...

Very pale skin colour, not pure white, is the point - names are imprecise.

And yes, I can distinguish eyes from the rest of the face - I selected a random spot in the middle of the cheek, in the picture of her beating up Ardent (unfortunately over a third of the archive images don't load, so I couldn't use the one that triggered the discussion).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Tova on 20 Jun 2016, 22:28
I am with PW. There is a subtle but definite touch of pink in there.

It's obviously not pure white. You only need to compare with the top she's wearing to see that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Pilchard123 on 21 Jun 2016, 09:48
Nah, it's white and gold.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 22 Jun 2016, 20:37
... clearly pink.
More a sort of tan colour if you ask me...

Very pale skin colour, not pure white, is the point - names are imprecise.

And yes, I can distinguish eyes from the rest of the face - I selected a random spot in the middle of the cheek, in the picture of her beating up Ardent (unfortunately over a third of the archive images don't load, so I couldn't use the one that triggered the discussion).

I'm actually more curious about the color of Gavia's clothing what there is of it.  When she was dropped from the Night Walker her underclothes appear to be a dark gray color and when she awakens she appears to be wearing a white tank top and shorts that are a lighter gray color.  Perhaps the fabric is affected by the light and looks darker at night or Alice or Senna lent her something while she was unconscious.  It may not matter, but after all the discussions about biological functions while comatose it's possible that what she was originally wearing was too stained by failed attempts at feeding and keeping her hydrated so they dressed her in something else.     
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 22 Jun 2016, 23:56
My guess is that, in the original script, Gavia was meant to be completely naked in that panel because her nanotech was all of her apparel. I suspect that Jeph changed his mind late in the creative process, maybe because he felt that he'd already pushed the envelope far enough with Sedna sleeping topless. He may have also been concerned by the general consensus that Gavia is underage.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 23 Jun 2016, 00:34
My guess is that, in the original script, Gavia was meant to be completely naked in that panel because her nanotech was all of her apparel. I suspect that Jeph changed his mind late in the creative process, maybe because he felt that he'd already pushed the envelope far enough with Sedna sleeping topless. He may have also been concerned by the general consensus that Gavia is underage.

There is that and the aspect that leaving her naked would make it on par with a sexual assault.  Her ordeal is heavy enough without getting into that territory, but what I'm referring to is her clothing when she was released by the Night Walker is dark gray and yet what she is wearing now is similar, but lighter in color.  It could be a decision by Jeph to change the colors without retroactively changing the previous strips, or her undergarments may change colors because it's futuristic technology or Alice or Sedna lent her something else to wear. 

It's interesting that you bring up age since it's not firmly established.  It might be possible that Ardent and Gavia mature quickly and are only a few years old or they are actually much older than the average baseline human, but youthful because of said augmentation.  At the very least Ardent has proven to be sexually active and there doesn't seem to be any taboo with who he slept with so I suppose that's evidence that he is of the age of consent whatever that might be.  As we have just seen with Gavia changing her skin color concepts such as race and age may be irrelevant to the space dwellers. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: katsmeat on 23 Jun 2016, 08:00
Surely an instant tan would not be a feature you'd bother with if you anticipated spending your entire life in space,, and never being on a planet.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: BenRG on 23 Jun 2016, 08:08
It's more of a case of fully-adaptable consciously-controlled anatomy. It would be interesting to see if this is more than just being able to control melanin levels in the skin. Could Ardent make himself look like a normal young man (literally in a matter of moments) if he chose to do so?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 23 Jun 2016, 12:04
Surely an instant tan would not be a feature you'd bother with if you anticipated spending your entire life in space,, and never being on a planet.

There's still a lot that we don't know about the space habitat.  Perhaps there are sections with natural sunlight that enters through massive windows or artificially generated light that requires space dwellers to alter their melanin as need be. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: Kugai on 23 Jun 2016, 15:18
Of course you realise you're Posting in last months Thread don't you?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - May 2016
Post by: brasca on 23 Jun 2016, 20:56
Of course you realise you're Posting in last months Thread don't you?

Yes, but the topic was active so I responded.