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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 15 May 2016, 12:46

Title: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 15 May 2016, 12:46
Timed Poll so that votes must be in before we're too long into the week. I've made it a two vote poll because Jeph can and does sometimes squeeze two different story-lines into a week.

I've voted as follows:
I'm sure that other readers have their own ideas, so don't be shy about voting 'Other' and telling us!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 15 May 2016, 13:43
New Arc: We find out the Bar was owned by Hannermom who makes a reappearance - Corporate fun and games ensue
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 May 2016, 15:32
I really hope we get a name, soon. Eyebrow Girl is a weird nickname.

(Also sorry I untimed the poll, timed polls seem so unnecessary. You can always change the poll question midweek if you want, but stopping people from voting at all if they see it too late is kinda cruel.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 15 May 2016, 15:56
Her name is Mel, short for magnificent eyebrows lady.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 May 2016, 16:02
Massive also works.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: DrBear on 15 May 2016, 17:26
Clinton falls into same trap he did with Emily, puts on fake eyebrows.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 15 May 2016, 18:30
Clinton will chip in for a motel room for the barkeep.

This arc needs an interlude.  Let Pintsize give us an accounting of his whereabouts during the fire.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 15 May 2016, 18:49
It's usually 'other'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 15 May 2016, 19:00
It's usually 'butts'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 May 2016, 19:04
It's always butts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 15 May 2016, 19:07
Changing my vote to butts.

Comic: it may actually end up being the Claire, Marten, Faye option.

So glad she saved the cuckoo clock.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 15 May 2016, 19:20
Party at Marten and Fayes place! Barlady and Faye can share home burning stories, and Marten can tell Clinton how well taking a girl in after that turns out! Add in some music and set the roof on fire!  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: wlewisiii on 15 May 2016, 19:51
Clinton will chip in for a motel room for the barkeep.

This arc needs an interlude.  Let Pintsize give us an accounting of his whereabouts during the fire.

No, he'll offer a room at his mom's. He knows his sister won't be home so there will be separate rooms for both without any questions. If his mom can accept Claire, walking in with her won't even rate a raised eyebrow.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Undrneath on 15 May 2016, 19:57
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 15 May 2016, 20:49
Eyebrow Girl?  Give the poor woman a name!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 15 May 2016, 20:51
Eyebrow Girl?  Give the poor woman a name!

//Clinton and Eyebrow Girl go to Coffee of Doom
Emily: Clin-Ton! And you, I will call you Blerninda!
Blerninda: How did you know my name?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 15 May 2016, 21:52
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?

Clairemom is doing better than a tragically large fraction of all parents of trans children. If only that kind of acceptance could be taken for granted.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 15 May 2016, 23:04
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone. It really seems that she can't properly process emotions and non-verbal communication. Because she doesn't 'get' it, she can't do it herself.

I'm left with two possible conclusions:
The second option wouldn't explain her failure to get that Clinton wasn't a troublemaker, so, yeah, I'm thinking that this is autism of some kind.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Nepiophage on 15 May 2016, 23:42
I think she's an AI, one not terribly well programmed for human interaction.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 16 May 2016, 00:40
At first, I thought that it made no sense for an AI not terribly well programmed for human interaction would have a job that primarily involves human interaction.

Then I asked myself why it would make less sense for an AI to have such a job than for a human, and didn't have a good answer.

Still, that feeling persists, so there it is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 16 May 2016, 00:59
So...
What happened in the 90 minutes we didn't get to see? Did he really just drink quietly at the bar for an hour before the fire started?

And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 16 May 2016, 01:00

ODD COUPLE THEME ENSUES
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Skewbrow on 16 May 2016, 01:06
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.
I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 16 May 2016, 01:10
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.

I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.

The thing is that, with the exception of her only semi-canonical response to Barry's fishing story, she always seems to act like this. It doesn't seem to be shock (which was my first idea too). It just seems to be the way she talks and acts!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 16 May 2016, 01:34
I think she's an AI, one not terribly well programmed for human interaction.

I think it would have great potential for interaction with Clinton, who has been seen as a bit AI-fanboyish. An AI whose personality does not mesh too well with his would be interesting.

Then again, I don't think she's an AI based on her appearance. AI chassis in the comic tend to be simple visually and with a "robotey" features to their faces.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: JimC on 16 May 2016, 03:13
Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.
Not IME. When my house burned down no-one was hysterical.
One of my mates I think still tells the story of me knocking him up at 3am and saying,
"Hi Simon, may I borrow your sofa, my house has just burnt down"

you could see the wheels turning :
'is he drunk, is he stoned, is he telling the truth, DO I CARE?'

Her reaction very much mirrors how we were. Some things are just too big for shouting and hysteria.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 16 May 2016, 03:26
"Hi Simon, may I borrow your sofa, my house has just burnt down"
Where were you going to take the sofa?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 16 May 2016, 03:33
So...
What happened in the 90 minutes we didn't get to see? Did he really just drink quietly at the bar for an hour before the fire started?

It doesn't have to have been ninety minutes. It could have been a lot less and then the rest of the time being filled with Clinton getting people out, giving statements to the police and then making an effort at comforting the still-nameless barkeep.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: bhtooefr on 16 May 2016, 04:02
I'm wondering if she's still in shock, though...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: MrWoodchip on 16 May 2016, 04:41
I'm slightly hoping for a "Sucks for you." then Clinton decides to walk home. It'd be funny.

I'm expecting a Marten/Faye style perma-sleepover.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 05:08
"funny"

Hmm.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: dexeron on 16 May 2016, 05:30
I'm changing my vote to "Clinton and Eyebrow Lady end up in a whirlwind romance culminating in a massive blow-out wedding that makes Marten's dad's look like a monastery repainting.  We never learn her name.  Ever.  And neither does Clin-ton."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 May 2016, 06:54
She might also be from a culture that ingrains self-control and understatement.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 16 May 2016, 07:19
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone. It really seems that she can't properly process emotions and non-verbal communication. Because she doesn't 'get' it, she can't do it herself.

I'm left with two possible conclusions:
  • She is somewhere on the autistic spectrum;
  • Her life to date has been so shitty that she just has had all the pain and rage burned out of her by the hopelessness.
The second option wouldn't explain her failure to get that Clinton wasn't a troublemaker, so, yeah, I'm thinking that this is autism of some kind.

Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.

In my experience, people that just had their Bar burned down over their heads tend to be shellshocked, with the occasional short bout of sobbing or two.
Not much emotion on display, overall.

(Yes, that actually happened - We came to play a gig in a little Bar in Cologne, only to find it ... 'well done'.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 16 May 2016, 08:04
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.

That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad  :meh:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 16 May 2016, 08:19
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.

That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad  :meh:

Tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient?

That's how this particular German views our eastern Neighbours - that insulting?

(Or do you mean the fashion/eyebrows thing? Hmmmh - Can't say that MYANGER is the fashion capital of the continent either, can we now? And actually, I had a third of my money on her maybe being GDR-raised -> I don't know where Jeph is going with the cuckoo-clock, e.g. ...)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 16 May 2016, 08:25
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.

That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad  :meh:

Tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient?

That's how this particular German views our eastern Neighbours - that insulting?

I never said I was insulted. I said I was sad ;) anyhow, based on the character attached to those comments, you might say "tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient", and you also might say "thick-skinned, drab-looking, gruff, emotionally cold and less-than-comfortable with the English language". That's the vibe I got from the part of your post I quoted :)

And since at least in some situations I've heard such labels attached to people from Central Europe/Poland by Westerners (or at least some of those), I think that view is not exactly uncommon. Heck, I'd agree with some of that, overall.

...I guess it's still better than the "you guys steal ALL the cars around here" stereotype that most Scandinavians seem to have  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 16 May 2016, 08:35
Huh. I had her pegged for a recent immigrant from Central/Eastern Europe. The seeming disregard for fashion/grooming standards and 'customer service' and the short sentences would fit, as well as the (apparent) stoicism.

That's how we're viewed by the outside world...? OK then. That's kinda sad  :meh:

Tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient?

That's how this particular German views our eastern Neighbours - that insulting?

I never said I was insulted. I said I was sad ;) anyhow, based on the character attached to those comments, you might say "tough, capable, no-nonsense, resilient", and you also might say "thick-skinned, drab-looking, gruff, emotionally cold and less-than-comfortable with the English language". That's the vibe I got from the part of your post I quoted :)

Actually, not so long ago I've listened to a Greek woman describe Germans in similar terms ...

...I guess it's still better than the "you guys steal ALL the cars around here" stereotype that most Scandinavians seem to have  :-D

Huh? That one never dies out, now does it?

My Father's family are/were Western Prussians from the Tuchel region (Gostyzyn/Liebenau, Oblast Tuchel) - Sadly, my Polish is restricted to "Poproszę o sześć piw"  :oops:


Aaaaaand: Sorry for Erika Steinbach -> but we can't find the 'mute' button on that woman ... She's a goddamn' embarrassment.
'She doesn't speak in my name' will have to suffice  :oops:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 16 May 2016, 08:38
Just going to mention that barkeep's eyebrows seem to have grown since her introduction in 3210 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210). Dealing with Clinton must have caused a surge in follicle growth hormone, or something. Now they look like England from Hetalia. (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/hetalia/images/7/79/EnglandAnime.png/revision/latest?cb=20090518155249)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 16 May 2016, 08:40
"Poproszę o sześć piw" is perfectly correct grammatically, but it strikes me as somewhat awkward. It may depend on the region, but I don't think I've ever heard a person use that particular construction. I think a more natural one is "Sześć piw, proszę" ;) [/nitpick] (in my defense, I nitpick language for a living)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 16 May 2016, 08:55
"Poproszę o sześć piw" is perfectly correct grammatically, but it strikes me as somewhat awkward. It may depend on the region, but I don't think I've ever heard a person use that particular construction. I think a more natural one is "Sześć piw, proszę" ;) [/nitpick] (in my defense, I nitpick language for a living)

Well, it was taught to me by a polish-born fellow student during the train-ride to Wolin.  :-D

In Adam's defense: He was 12 when his parents headed west due to some Solidarność-affiliations, so his Polish might have been lacking a bit of everyday practise.

---
EDIT: About the 'ambigous' characterisation of eastern Europeans -> On 2nd reading: Yeah, you're right. Sorry about that. Didn't mean it that way, but still ... on the rude side of 'brash'.
In my defense: German, physicist, ADD. Now, if you draw a Venn-diagram ... :oops:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 16 May 2016, 10:50
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone.

I'm no psychologist, but I think she is still just in shock. The reality of all her earthly belongings going up in flames in front of her eyes has not fully registered yet.

The thing is that, with the exception of her only semi-canonical response to Barry's fishing story, she always seems to act like this. It doesn't seem to be shock (which was my first idea too). It just seems to be the way she talks and acts!

Maybe her grief is in equal balance with joy.  Perhaps she hated her job and wanted a change and now this happened.  She doesn't have an excuse for staying employed there any longer and the biggest problem she has right now is where to sleep for the night.   
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 16 May 2016, 14:08
She might have some audotiry processing disorder, not sure.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: War Sparrow on 16 May 2016, 15:00
Or maybe she is just like that. No disorder, just calm and bad at human interaction. Some people are just poorly socialized and even tempered.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 16 May 2016, 15:40
So, anyone seeing Clinton offering to help her out and find a place to stay?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 16 May 2016, 16:07
Dunno, I have a friend who's a bartender and she really hates the fact that she'll have to get a hearing aid. Barlady really reminds me of her, they even look alike.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 16 May 2016, 17:00
Or maybe she is just like that. No disorder, just calm and bad at human interaction. Some people are just poorly socialized and even tempered.

How can you say that? This clearly is a case of

                                                                              Lupus
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 17:25
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 16 May 2016, 18:24
No, he'll offer a room at his mom's. He knows his sister won't be home so there will be separate rooms for both without any questions. If his mom can accept Claire, walking in with her won't even rate a raised eyebrow.

I feel like it's kind of a leap from "not a complete shitheel to her own blood" to "willing to take in a somewhat frightening stranger."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 16 May 2016, 18:30
I know this nice bridge you can sleep under...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 16 May 2016, 18:38
What is she holding in that last panel?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: bhtooefr on 16 May 2016, 18:39
A cuckoo clock, based on the text at the bottom.

Also...
[tweet]732344609876148224[/tweet]
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 18:56
lolspoilers, but I'm glad to hear
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Undrneath on 16 May 2016, 19:03
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?

Clairemom is doing better than a tragically large fraction of all parents of trans children. If only that kind of acceptance could be taken for granted.

I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 16 May 2016, 19:07
And we have a name!

Fuck everyone who's ever told her she shortens it wrong.  It's her name.  She gets to do whatever she wants.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 16 May 2016, 19:08
BRUN. It's a name. It works in that capacity. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it's an uncommon shortening.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 16 May 2016, 19:09
I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.

Hoo boy.

I'm just going to walk away before I get in trouble.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 16 May 2016, 19:12
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :-)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 16 May 2016, 19:23
Why wouldn't she accept Claire?

Clairemom is doing better than a tragically large fraction of all parents of trans children. If only that kind of acceptance could be taken for granted.

I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.

Mothers reject their babies all the time.  Nature is a cruel and uncaring force, truly a blight on the earth itself.

Read that with a German accent to get the complete Werner Herzog experience.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gladstone on 16 May 2016, 19:25
Their breath is visible now, guess it's getting colder/ the fire is dying/ both.

/their powers are simultaneously beginning to manifest...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 16 May 2016, 19:27
Well, I suppose it was inevitable...

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Deadman on 16 May 2016, 19:30
kinda liking this arc as in I am actually interested in seeing what will happen next after so much meh
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 16 May 2016, 19:31
No, he'll offer a room at his mom's. He knows his sister won't be home so there will be separate rooms for both without any questions. If his mom can accept Claire, walking in with her won't even rate a raised eyebrow.

I feel like it's kind of a leap from "not a complete shitheel to her own blood" to "willing to take in a somewhat frightening stranger."

Yeah, that idea always felt a bit off with me. Its one thing to be completely understanding when you child is going through something huge like coming out as trans, its something else entirely when another child brings a complete stranger into your home without forewarning.

What happened previously and with Clinton's luck it would have ended as a certain trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThingThatWouldNotLeave). And usually not a particularly funny one at that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 19:33
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :)
Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.

Also, is Brun the Topher to Hilde's Chris?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 16 May 2016, 19:37
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :)
Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.

Also, is Brun the Topher to Hilde's Chris?
I don't know how to tell you this, but season 5 started two weeks ago. Two eps a week, today's 4, Shaw returned, and I don't want to spoil any details about it or the twist, but something finally happens between Shaw and Root and that is glorious. :3
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 16 May 2016, 19:39
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :)
Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.

It is airing now. This is going to be the final season. Shaw and Root are the best thing television has ever produced.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 16 May 2016, 19:41
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :)
Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.

It is airing now. This is going to be the final season. Shaw and Root are the best thing television has ever produced.
YESSSSSSSSSSS

And ep 7 is gonna have another scene, and it won't be y'know.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 19:46
Argh, god damn it, why the hell would you post any of that without spoiler tags? Yes, I appreciate being told it's back, but...seriously! WHY?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 16 May 2016, 19:52
Argh, god damn it, why the hell would you post any of that without spoiler tags? Yes, I appreciate being told it's back, but...seriously! WHY?
I literally never said anything that wasn't said in basically every single interview the past few months. I mean you probably didn't read them, but most people I'm sure went in knowing that. Besides, not like you even know what the you know what is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 19:55
Fair enough.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: President Peaches on 16 May 2016, 20:05
Well, the autism hypothesis has another data point in its support, never mind the fact that I'm a bit weirded out by the fact that she's a carbon copy of one of my classmates in college who has a service dog due to her severe autism. Quite nice, if you get over the emotional difficulties and make sure your attempts at communication are unambiguous. Otherwise she'll ignore you and her dog will stare at you like you're an alien.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 16 May 2016, 20:13
Implicitly criticizing name normativism in the comic and then being name normative in the comic notes is kind of a wash, Jeph.

Brunhilde is a nice name, and if she's an immigrant for which English is a secondary language that might explain her odd syntax, aside from the emotions thing.

However, she's not of the typical skintone for that region of Earth. I'm calling it; she's of Turkish descent, born and grew up in Germany, and moved to Massachusetts to get away from the memories of her father shooting his girlfriends grandmother by accident in his excitement over getting a gig on the Daily Show. He was later eaten by an Allosaurus while contemplating an erupting volcano during a motorcycle roadtrip.*  :psyduck:

*In order, Faye, Marten, Padma, Angus, Sara, Steve, and Wil.


Hey MoM, shouldn't you change the attribution of one of your signatures now?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 16 May 2016, 20:27
Clinton falls into same trap he did with Emily, puts on fake eyebrows.
Except Clinton uses nori because he saw it in an anime once (FLCL).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 16 May 2016, 20:32
I'm more sure than ever that this new character has some kind of social or behavioural disorder. Most people would be hysterical in her situation but she remains deliberate, calm and monotone. It really seems that she can't properly process emotions and non-verbal communication. Because she doesn't 'get' it, she can't do it herself.

I'm left with two possible conclusions:
  • She is somewhere on the autistic spectrum;
  • Her life to date has been so shitty that she just has had all the pain and rage burned out of her by the hopelessness.
The second option wouldn't explain her failure to get that Clinton wasn't a troublemaker, so, yeah, I'm thinking that this is autism of some kind.
Other possibilities  include; she's in  a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's  so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.

And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)
As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 16 May 2016, 20:37
Hey MoM, shouldn't you change the attribution of one of your signatures now?
Fun fact, in the book his real name is Walder. I guess they didn't want him to share a name with Walder Frey in the show (with them changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara to avoid confusion with Osha).

So to answer your question...no, it's not really funny if I change the name, so I'm gonna keep it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 16 May 2016, 20:56
Comic!

Full disclosure: I wasn't thinking it should be shortened to "Hilde." I was thinking, "Oh Brunhilde, you're so looovely."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: celticgeek on 16 May 2016, 22:21
Oh crap! She's Questionable Contents version of Shaw!

That's great! :)
Just caught up on PoI a few months ago, really hoping there's a season five.

Also, is Brun the Topher to Hilde's Chris?


My sister has a son named Christopher, and she shortened it to "Topher", which we all thought was great.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 16 May 2016, 22:24
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 16 May 2016, 22:25
I guess I am a bit naive. I just can't imagine a parent not accepting their kids.

Would that it were so.... 

When I was in college, I was very far from home and very poor. Usually I couldn't afford to go home for holidays. 

But I could have a big potluck dinner for a bunch of my friends (mostly very nice people) who, for whatever reason, were no longer welcome at home.  And I did that.  I'd invite folks over and we'd have a big traditional feast and games and tree trimming or whatever, and I think that, aside from being pleasant for all involved, it was just plain good for all of our emotional health. 

The reasons why they weren't welcome at home ranged from falling in love with the wrong person (or what their parents thought was the wrong gender or the wrong race or with more than one person), getting a job as a dancer at a club, converting to a different religion, volunteering for military service, not volunteering for military service, telling their parents that the nice boy they tried to set them up with is a flaming abusive jerk, refusing to join Dad's frat, and just plain BEING AT COLLEGE (parents had odd religious beliefs about education in that last case).

I was appalled at how easy it was for good people to be rejected by their families. 

Anyway, somebody had to do it.  And I myself had a cousin who died of HIV rather than seeking treatment, because my aunt had a goddamn hissey fit about the scandal he'd cause if he came out and was going to throw him out of the house.  I didn't speak to that aunt again for two decades; I haven't forgiven her yet.  Anyway, since so many of my friends were in that boat, and I missed my cousin, it just seemed like the right thing to do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 16 May 2016, 22:29
Good for her.  While Hilde isn't the most common of names it's good to choose something different. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 16 May 2016, 22:30
She's either in  a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's  so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.
I like Brun. Also... I really don't understand the common reaction of everyone else here. I would have the same reaction that she did. "Sigh. How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".

I might be concerned about what's going to happen next, be on the lookout for meteors, out of control trucks etc. Murphy's Law.

OK, I'm weird too, in the same way she is. I know that I'm weird, not because I feel I'm weird, but through a process of deduction. Everyone else seems to think panic, fear, shock, stress etc is the normal reaction, and I believe it. So I'm not normal. Still, it's useful to be like this when the brown smelly stuff hits the air conditioning.

Brun and Clinton make an effective team. She tries to deal with the fire, he gets everyone out. Full marks to both. Did anyone else notice this? That there were no casualties, simply because they both did the right thing instead of panicking?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: DonInKansas on 16 May 2016, 22:34
For some reason I am mildly surprised there is no umlaut.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 16 May 2016, 22:56
Losing everything like that is a serious inconvenience. Cash, credit/debit cards, ID, drivers licence, passport, citizenship certificate, address book on paper, computer, phone, the problem of where to sleep in the medium as well as short term, income now job has gone, all possessions apart from the clothes you're wearing... That is very tiresome indeed.

But no-one died. No-one was even hurt seriously. Everything else is just material possessions, even family heirlooms are just things. People - that's what matters.

Brun now qualifies as a Damsel in Distress. Clinton and everyone else he knows would make good substitutes for Knights in Shining Armour. So she's lucked out - she doesn't know it yet but might be beginning to suspect. Note also - while having enough on her plate, she was thinking of others. "You've missed the last bus".

I like Brun.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 16 May 2016, 23:12
Losing everything like that is a serious inconvenience. Cash, credit/debit cards, ID, drivers licence, passport, citizenship certificate, address book on paper, computer, phone, the problem of where to sleep in the medium as well as short term, income now job has gone, all possessions apart from the clothes you're wearing... That is very tiresome indeed.
Yep, that's going to be a tough Hilda climb.  :claireface:

Get it? Hil- :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 16 May 2016, 23:17
Yes.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 16 May 2016, 23:28
So, Brun it is.

FWIW, I can't see why 'Hilde' is a better nickname other than for preconceived concepts about gender-appropriate naming (which ought to be discussed with John Wayne). As for her origin; she might be ethnic Roma from a family driven from Germany in the 1930s but has retained the naming of the homeland, as many migrant communities do.

The 'bad with emotion' thing intregues me. A condition or trauma-based? Were her family assholes and made her feel safer not to feel? Might that be the reason she is so mistrustful? From her comments about how people shorten he name, she's certainly been mocked a lot in her life; perhaps that's why she's prickly? If so, I empathise with that.

Regarding the cuckoo clock, I can't help wondering if it may be a family heirloom rather than just an eccentric affectation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 17 May 2016, 00:02
Personally going by how uneffected she seems to be by this, the fact that what seems like her anger feels more like frustration to me, the seemingly okness with aiming weapons at others, as shown by both the harpoon, both times, clinton and her suggestion, and her apparently aiming a shotgun at Barry. Then how her asking if why he was angry was just don't because of her job and she doesn't really care, or so I assume.

Plus well,
(http://s32.postimg.org/xjjzo21ed/Root_root_and_shaw_37137900_1280_720.jpg)
Try and tell me Brun and her don't look mildly similar. Expression wise.

Anyway, Shaw was said to have Axis II Personality Disorder, which really is a whole bunch of things, so who knows which she had, dunno why they only said what category she's in. Also Axis II doesn't exist anymore, the DSM-V kinda got rid of it so who knows where she falls now. But yeah.

Or she has Autism, and there are things pointing in that direction, including being calm in this situation.

But then she's pretty much behaving the same now as in the bar so I'm not really sure it's valid.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 17 May 2016, 00:20
To be fair, Sameen's condition is self-diagnosed.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 17 May 2016, 00:21
The accent over the "u" got burned in the fire.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Doc on 17 May 2016, 00:58
Now he can ride the broon and be a manly witch.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 17 May 2016, 01:56
She's either in  a minor case of shock, having a delayed reaction, or it's  so much stress & panic that she's having issues processing it.
I like Brun. Also... I really don't understand the common reaction of everyone else here. I would have the same reaction that she did. "Sigh. How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".

I might be concerned about what's going to happen next, be on the lookout for meteors, out of control trucks etc. Murphy's Law.

OK, I'm weird too, in the same way she is. I know that I'm weird, not because I feel I'm weird, but through a process of deduction. Everyone else seems to think panic, fear, shock, stress etc is the normal reaction, and I believe it. So I'm not normal. Still, it's useful to be like this when the brown smelly stuff hits the air conditioning.

Brun and Clinton make an effective team. She tries to deal with the fire, he gets everyone out. Full marks to both. Did anyone else notice this? That there were no casualties, simply because they both did the right thing instead of panicking?

I feel similar.

"Oh, she doesn't faint or screeches for 10 minutes - SHE MUST BE A SAVANT WITH POLYMORPHIC IDEOPATHIC ...!"

Then and again, I'm a filthy foreigner who thinks that 'customer service' is giving stuff to people & making sure they part with their money in return, and there's a DSM-V entry about the way my headmeat works, so YMMV ...  :-D

(Plus, it looks like it was central Europe rather than eastern ... :oops:)


As for her origin; she might be ethnic Roma from a family driven from Germany in the 1930s but has retained the naming of the homeland, as many migrant communities do.

Do you deduct that from the literal meaning of her name (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunhild_%28Vorname%29), which is a concatenation of the old-high-german words for "Armour" and "Combat"?
Or the fact that so many Rom people admit to an undying love for Wagner and the Nibelungenlied?

Totally obvious, that one ...

My! Come to think of it - Angela Merkel could be Roma! AND autist!
Why didn't we see that before?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mordhaus on 17 May 2016, 02:28
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 17 May 2016, 02:33
@Case,

No, it's based purely on 'looks like' combined with 'what origin story would fit both appearance and name'. Yes, it was a wild guess taking some strands of evidence to their extreme but, lacking a canon story, why not push to the limits?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 17 May 2016, 03:08
why not push to the limits?
Well okay, if we can do it that way...

Brunhilda is a Valkyrie, come to Earth to serve beer and ale between carting off warriors to Valhalla. Since she's been around for a long time and seen a lot of stuff, good and bad, she just doesn't react to it much anymore. But what will she do when she finds... love? For while she has experienced all that humans have to offer, between the bar and her duties transporting dead people, she's mostly missed the AI revolution. When she meets Pintsize, it's love at first sight, for he has archived things she has never even dreamed of, and for the first time in a very long time, she feels alive again. Will she at last find her true love just as Ragnarok begins?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Akima on 17 May 2016, 03:44
Brun and Clinton make an effective team. She tries to deal with the fire, he gets everyone out. Full marks to both. Did anyone else notice this? That there were no casualties, simply because they both did the right thing instead of panicking?
Just so, they did well.

I too find a bit tiresome this frenzied "medicalisation" of any variation from the way someone thinks "normal people" behave. Not everyone flies into hysterics under stress, as can be observed in TV coverage of disasters today, or old newsreels of bombed cities for that matter. Cultures also vary greatly in how far public displays of emotion are acceptable. People can be different without needing us to thumb through the DSM.

Clinton seems to be managing well without his glasses.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 17 May 2016, 03:49
If he's long-sighted like Claire, then he's able to function without his glasses in most scenarios although he'd probably prefer not having to do so.

FWIW, it is my opinion that today's strip confirms that that Brun does have something wrong that leads to her very stoic demeanour. I wonder if it is trauma-induced, somewhat like with Bubbles. However, the point is that she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either and this extends to her response to high-stress scenarios.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 May 2016, 04:13
FWIW, it is my opinion that today's strip confirms that that Brun does have something wrong that leads to her very stoic demeanour.
[...]
she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either

Neither of those characteristics is an indication of anything "wrong"; both could be applied to me, for a start.  To me it is belittling to people with real problems to apply labels such as "autism" without proper justification.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 17 May 2016, 04:31
Cultures also vary greatly in how far public displays of emotion are acceptable.

Thailand particularly values the ability to know when to express emotions, and when not to. There are very few occasions when it is acceptable.

I come from a UK "Stiff Upper Lip"  culture.  Emotions regarding misfortune are seen as embarrassing.

Maybe it was because I went to a very old fashioned even for the 60s boarding school. Something straight out of Kipling. I learnt how to use chopsticks from a boy whose Father was stationed in Malaya, and some Afrikaans from another whose parents were in Zuid Afrika.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 17 May 2016, 04:58
...

FWIW, it is my opinion that today's strip confirms that that Brun does have something wrong that leads to her very stoic demeanour. I wonder if it is trauma-induced, somewhat like with Bubbles. However, the point is that she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either and this extends to her response to high-stress scenarios.

Ben ... let me preface this request with stating that you're one of my favorite posters, and that I usually enjoy your speculations.

That being said - A shitton of people on this board, including yours truly, have more experience with mental health problems and/or developmental disorders than they ever wanted to have.

Especially the path to the correct diagnosis of a developmental disorder, like AD(H)D, or various forms of autism not rarely includes mal-diagnosis, stigmatization, wrong medication - or, as in my case, decades-long refusal of diagnosis and medication, because I wasn't stereotypical enough - and more "metal health professionals" without any mental health training than one cares to remember.

PLEASE. STOP. WITH. ZE. DIAGNOSES.

And PLEASE: Do not ever again use the word "something wrong with them" when you talk about people with supposed mental health trouble.
Really - we've heard that one more often than we care to remember.

No matter if it turns out you're "right", or not - and no matter whether Jeph shares your opinion, or not: PLEASE!

Let me end this request with repeating that you really are one of my favorite posters, that I really enjoy your speculations (apart from the diagnoses), and that it's not entirely fair to single you out for this request, since you are by far not the only one.
Yes, I also have mental-health associations wrt. certain characters - it's tempting. But ... please?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Roxtar on 17 May 2016, 06:07
My cousin gets the same crap all the time... She (Patricia) goes by "Tricia" rather than "Pat" or "Patty"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: APersonAmI on 17 May 2016, 06:27
I have decided I like this person. Also, Brun is an awesome name.

I don't find it weird, though. I mean, I met two new people today. Their names where Varga ("Wolf") and Öhberg ("Island Mountain"), and my birth name is Per Person (Per, son of Per, thus my username). Depending on pronunciation, her nickname would sound like the Swedish words for brown, bridge or well. Her name would fit in over here.

Also, I am an aspie, and I wholeheartedly agree with Case.

Edit:
My cousin gets the same crap all the time... She (Patricia) goes by "Tricia" rather than "Pat" or "Patty"

Ugh. That sucks. I really wish respecting peoples preferred names were more common a courtesy then it is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: JimC on 17 May 2016, 06:31
... very stoic demeanour. I wonder if it is trauma-induced, somewhat like with Bubbles. However, the point is that she doesn't emote easily and apparently doesn't socialise well either and this extends to her response to high-stress scenarios.

Grief folks. Like I said I've been in this situation (leave burning house carrying only what was to hand in the middle of the night) and I hope none of you ever have or ever will be, but the superficially calm demeanour is exactly the way all 4 of us in that house and the 2 people in the house next door behaved. This is not unusual behaviour in real life, at least in the UK.

And just for amusement I looked up Brunhildes on Linkedin, and the only one showing an abbreviation was using Brun...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 May 2016, 06:52
(Mod groping for exactly the right tone and content)
Speculation is what we're here for, inclusiveness of the mentally atypical is a core value, more than one of the moderators can sympathize with their struggles first-hand, everyone should listen to them. I haven't figured out the right balance. Meantime everyone please do your best, as Momo suggested for diverse spaces.
(/)

The way Brun thinks of it is "not good with emotions". She's not completely accepting of herself, in other words.

My diagnosis is Weird Quirk To Be Funny. J[damn you autocorrect] Jacques may take in in a different direction, though. He's been sensitive about depression, OCD, and gender dysphasia [fuck you, autocorrect,  d y s p h o r I a). Maybe he'll do the same for a new population this time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 17 May 2016, 06:54
My cousin gets the same crap all the time... She (Patricia) goes by "Tricia" rather than "Pat" or "Patty"
I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 17 May 2016, 07:54
I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.
I dated a Victoria for a little while who went by Tori.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: JimC on 17 May 2016, 08:25
Every generation has its own faults, and I'm beginning to suspect that hindsight may come to think that one of this one's is that, in seeking to be proactive about inclusiveness, its has maybe become a bit too keen on labelling people as being in need of inclusion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 17 May 2016, 08:42
And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)
As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.

In regards to her characterization as a whole, I just don't find her all too pleasant. Prior to the fire, she's willfully unhelpful, threatens Clinton for no good reason, and seems to dislike helping customers. After the fire she's not been as bad, though she's still done little to endear herself to me besides being in a sympathetic position. I can't easily care for someone who acts like an unhelpful dick most of the time, even if they're amusing and willing to be *less* of a dick if you call them out on it.

I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 17 May 2016, 09:04
Indeed.  I've known a lot of unusual people in my life, and while I form opinions about how they think and react, I think of those opinions as just getting to know someone's personality.  I'm always fairly startled when someone refers to the personality of someone I know using a medical term - although, in some cases, they're correct, I can't help but thinking most cases "oh, the medical community has so trivialized that definition that it now applies to people whose problems aren't even serious.  As well as those whose problems are." 

Besides, a lot of those traits, while their bearers are unhappy people, are important to the proper functioning of a group.  You need a depressive around to temper the stupid optimism of most normals.  You need a few manic optimists and adrenaline junkies to explore and make new discoveries for your people, even if a bunch of them do get killed in the process. You need obsessives if anything important is ever going to get done.  You need an insomniac if someone is going to warn you when something is threatening your group at night.  You need the maladapted, to lead the way when it's necessary to adapt to a new situation.   You need a paranoid to warn you when someone really is out to get you - normal people never notice until it's too late.  You even need people who don't go into hysterics at a disaster if you're going to have an immediate and appropriate response. 

It's the mix of different people that survives.  If everybody were normal, the group would have too limited a range of responses and would fall into a sterile routine where nothing new ever happens, no new discoveries are made, no one has a clue how to adapt to anything new, and while most disasters would get a correct response, the group would be wiped out by the first few that they just don't have the right person to deal with.

So, yeah.  There are a bunch of personality types that have unhappy lives most of the time. The current fad is to try to medicate them out of existence.  But the traits that are problems for them personally, are often traits that society as a whole needs a few people to have.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 May 2016, 09:14
If everybody were normal,

Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.

Quote
a bunch of personality types that have unhappy lives most of the time.

In many cases this unhappiness is not inherent, but the result of society's response to them.  When society is more accepting, things improve for everyone.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 17 May 2016, 09:23
I too find a bit tiresome this frenzied "medicalisation" of any variation from the way someone thinks "normal people" behave. Not everyone flies into hysterics under stress, as can be observed in TV coverage of disasters today, or old newsreels of bombed cities for that matter. Cultures also vary greatly in how far public displays of emotion are acceptable. People can be different without needing us to thumb through the DSM.
Grief folks. Like I said I've been in this situation (leave burning house carrying only what was to hand in the middle of the night) and I hope none of you ever have or ever will be, but the superficially calm demeanour is exactly the way all 4 of us in that house and the 2 people in the house next door behaved. This is not unusual behaviour in real life, at least in the UK.
This meme (in the sense of shared idea, not rickrolling) will probably die down as we get more interactions with Brun, but it bears nipping in the bud; It's not just her behavior after the fire that's atypical, so is her behavior and syntax before the fire. It may just boil down to a form of Comedic Sociopathy as IICIH opines, but she's been consistently characterized before and after she has a major event to react to as stoic and laconic, so focusing only on after the fire does her a disservice. I still suggest immigrant with English as a second language, combined with a turbulent history (Valkyrie is probably not on the table). We shall see.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 17 May 2016, 09:35
If everybody were normal,

Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.

Perhaps it would.  Maybe "normal" is too pejorative. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 May 2016, 10:19
If everybody were normal,

Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.

Perhaps it would.  Maybe "normal" is too pejorative.

When talking about people, it usually is. 'Normal' is usually implied as the desired and default state, and those that are 'abnormal' as being broken, flawed and/or unwanted. You can see how that would get people's backs up, because how they are is normal to them. Yet they are constantly told that there is something wrong with them, and because of it people will not want them around.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 17 May 2016, 10:40
In the circles I move in, "Normal" is usually an insult.

Unless, you know, it means at a 90 degree angle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 17 May 2016, 11:17
I'm not just normal, I'm orthonormal.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: APersonAmI on 17 May 2016, 11:17
In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.

Data point of one, but I frequently pull of the first two steps when I observe the conflicts of others. Step 3 is more uneven, sometimes I succeed, and sometimes I don't. Often, people tell me later down the line that I was absolutely right, but in the moment I failed to make them understand. Ability to understand ≠ ability to communicate, basically.

On the subject of "normal", I have distressingly often gotten the question "can people with autism spectrum disorders be normal?” My response has usually been "Wrong question. If you meant "can they be happy", then yes, absolutely."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 17 May 2016, 11:27
If everybody were normal,

Perhaps "average" would be a fairer word to use.

Perhaps it would.  Maybe "normal" is too pejorative.

Well ... they can't exactly help being normal, so maybe you have a point there.  :mrgreen:

I'm not just normal, I'm orthonormal.  :claireface:

I'm complete!

Are you observable, too?  :laugh:

I had a friend in college named Victoria who went by Toria.
I dated a Victoria for a little while who went by Tori.

I like listening to Tori Amos.

...
On the subject of "normal", I have distressingly often gotten the question "can people with autism spectrum disorders be normal?” My response has usually been "Wrong question. If you meant "can they be happy", then yes, absolutely."

Threadwin ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 17 May 2016, 15:28
I regard much of the autism spectrum as completely sane.  Differently sane, perhaps.  But in many cases saner than I personally am.

We are normal (or average) to the extent that we are like others.  To me that's not an important question.

We are sane to the extent that we can live functional lives, interact productively, love, respect, and earn the love and respect of others.  That's by far more important, and there are a heck of a lot of different ways to be sane.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: War Sparrow on 17 May 2016, 16:46
and some Afrikaans from another whose parents were in Zuid Afrika.

This is kind of off topic, but I think it's super cool you know a bit of Afrikaans. For some reason.

More on topic:
I took Psych in University. It was almost a career choice. But my Abnormal Psych prof tried to hammer in the idea that it really only counted as a disorder if it negatively impacted the person's life, or those around them. Made it hard to, or impossible to, function without medication or therapy. Perhaps both, preferably just therapy though. We were all told we would probably diagnose ourselves at least once, because everyone does in a class like that, but chances were we were fine. The DSM IV-TR is pretty strict on what constitutes a diagnosis. Some might think too strict, but there it is.

 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 17 May 2016, 16:57
I think they just adopted another one.


Here's an interesting question, Emily and Brun in the same room.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 17 May 2016, 17:01
Emily and Brun are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm not sure what spectrum that is, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 17 May 2016, 17:03
SIG
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 17 May 2016, 19:30
Barry? Where's Barry? That guy is useless... never around when you want him.

Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

In other news, May discovers that after her facial reconstruction, her photo ID is invalid.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 May 2016, 19:38
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.

Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.

If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: wlewisiii on 17 May 2016, 19:50
Comic.

Clinton is stepping up tonight in many ways.  Good for him.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 17 May 2016, 19:58
Use your outdoor voice, Brun.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 17 May 2016, 20:00
Oh, wow.  To everyone who's been wondering about Clinton's positive traits: here you are.  Dude's a Good Guy (not to be confused with a Nice Guy, which is a very different thing).  High degree of responsibility, calm in a crisis, willing to take care of others even when he has no obligation to do so.

Also, not a murderer.  Very important for being a good guy.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 17 May 2016, 20:08
Please read the next sentence in the haughtiest tone possible.  His status as a non-murderer remains to be proven.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: SharpCookies on 17 May 2016, 20:15
So I ran to the forum which I have stalked for months now (this is my first post, hi guys) to come scream in excitement with my realization that BRUN IS TOTALLY AUTISTIC SHE IS GOING NONVERBAL SHE IS SO AUTISTIC WOW!! But it seems i already missed some of the discussion talking about it so... I guess I was late on the ball.

As a fellow autistic, seeing a canon autistic character in the comic would make me very happy. (although I always headcanoned Marigold as autistic, with her awkwardness, sort of low social skills, special interests in anime/games, trouble with executive dysfunction, etc etc, but I digress). I'm gonna have to disagree that her ability to help Clinton see the heart of the problem is something she couldn't do because she is autistic - I am a psych major and human service worker-in-training, and while I can have difficulty in those situations I am still able to decipher situations like that. Not all autistic people lack that ability - their skills and abilities differ, just like everyone's skills and abilities differ. And though she did initially come off as rude/threatening, I do think she is an interesting character and I wouldn't be too upset if she were the representation for autism as long as Jeph continues to treat it with care.

anyway NONVERBAL AUTISTIC IN A POPULAR COMIC I AM SO READY FOR THIS WOOOOH!! (sorry it gets me excited)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 17 May 2016, 20:35
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.

It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 17 May 2016, 21:27
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.

Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.

If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.

Not counting characters whose personality can be entirely summed up as 'Autistic', there are extremely few representations in popular culture, and of those who do show up, I can't really think of *any* that are 'Good' characters. The ideal is that the characters are portrayed as jerks and assholes who have some sympathetic traits, but more often than not the closest thing they get to a redeeming quality is that they function as the punchline for a joke or the driving force for a plotpoint or episode. I had to go *looking* for modern, positive portrayals in popular culture, and I could find *one* main character in a show that I'd heard of who fits the criteria. (Abed from community. I haven't seen much of the show.) And for every Abed, there's a dozen Sheldon Coopers.

I'm not saying that anyone has to be the perfect, ideal person with no character flaws in order to be good representation, but it'd be nice to have a more balanced spectrum (Pun!) of characters, rather than many, many assholes and jerks with only a few good people mixed in the bunch.

I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 17 May 2016, 21:37
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 17 May 2016, 21:43
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.

It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.

Until they inevitably roll down the euphamism treadmill.

I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.

Claire was disliked when she was introduced, if that makes you feel better.

Because of the speculation around here, very small negative incidents or statements early in the introduction of a character tend to get blown out to full-blown character flaws.

Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?

It's kind of like saying "Breen" with your mouth shaped like you're about to say "Broon."

Anyway, afaik, with or without the umlauts are valid variations on the spelling.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 17 May 2016, 21:55
I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.

Claire was disliked when she was introduced, if that makes you feel better.

Because of the speculation around here, very small negative incidents or statements early in the introduction of a character tend to get blown out to full-blown character flaws.
Well, I mean, she threatened Clinton with a harpoon, yelled at him for not wanting a beer, and I don't have a third thing but those first two were pretty darn bad. Calling them 'very small negative incidents' is an understatement.

Still, I can chalk that up to Jeph's introduction of her not working out as well as he'd intended. We'll see what her personality's like in a month.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 17 May 2016, 22:05
Huh, ok with this page I admit I was wrong. She most certainly does seem to be autistic, which I actually do love more then if she'd been, whatever Shaw is, I still could never find out. But in the end let me say I LOVE HER SO MUCH! The day her first page came out I just loved her design, but figured that would be the only time we ever saw her, I am so glad she's becoming main though!

Also, I'm not the only one who feels Clinton looks a hell of a lot better like that am I?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 17 May 2016, 22:06
Well, I mean, she threatened Clinton with a harpoon, yelled at him for not wanting a beer, and I don't have a third thing but those first two were pretty darn bad. Calling them 'very small negative incidents' is an understatement.

Still, I can chalk that up to Jeph's introduction of her not working out as well as he'd intended. We'll see what her personality's like in a month.

Yes, quite. When I referred to 'very small negative incidents', I was speaking more generally towards the forumites' reactions to the introduction of new characters, rather than to the reaction to Brun specifically. Waving a harpoon at someone is, as you say, a bit more serious.

Still, my reaction was "what happened to her to make her react that way to someone like Clinton," rather than "what a horrible person." Maybe that makes me ... atypical.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 17 May 2016, 22:17
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.
Most characters in fiction that observers label as autistic are not so. They merely have an ambiguous disorder that the writers can manipulate at whim for comedy or drama. See: Abed's shifting pop culture fixations and occasional sociopathic disregard for the mental harm he directly states he knows will come from his actions, everything about Sheldon Cooper. There's a reason they're never explicitly called autistic within their shows, though characters may dance around the terminology (there's an ass burgers pun in the Community pilot, but the DnD episode titles his game character Abed the Undiagnosable).

However, they are the closest thing to an autistic person that most people observing media see, which is a shame. There are definitely positive depictions, like Adam (2005ish film), and popular figures, like Temple Grandin, but they're pretty far below the pop culture radar.

Hey, at least it's not all Rainman idiot savant plot devices any more. That's progress.

Final note: I do find it annoying that people are diagnosing her with autism, especially as people start talking with an inherent assumption that she's autistic. Speculation is all well and good, but declarations are extremely premature and unjustified- there is not nearly enough information to go on yet for that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 17 May 2016, 22:20
The autistic trait does seem to get a bit of ground now. I can't say I know a lot about this stuff but I have an alternative reason. Don't take offense, I'm just shooting out an idea:
She could also be extremely traumatized from a previous event that left her in schock and for lack of better terms, out of emotions left to give... Let's say... War? I recall someone in previous pages suggesting she might not have english as her mother tongue and she does look like she might come from an easter country.

(again, I'm doing a lot of speculation, hope it's ok with ya guys).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 17 May 2016, 22:32
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

Errrh, no - it's just that the sound that Inglese make whilst pronouncing the 'double-o' is the closest approximation to the German 'u' they can achieve without risking major injuries of their oral cavity, pharynx and Epiglottis ...

Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?

Well, in the sense that the Antarctic is included in the set of "Places that are not the Arctic" - YesnoUmhOkmaybeabit?.

'ü' is 'right in between' the sounds you make when you pronounce 'oo' and then pronounce 'e' - like, literally: When you go from the one to the other, your mouth makes an 'ü'. Take 'Huey', as in 'Huey Lewis and the News'. Now speak the word repeatedly - HueyHueyHueyHuey ... Good! Focus on the 'ue'! Excellent! FASTER!
HueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHueyHuey ...

Let the two sounds blend into each other - that's right, go on!
ueueueueueueueueueueueueueueueueüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüü ...

Now you just forget about the 'h', avoid choking on your tongue and start thinking about a credible explanation for your roomates/neighbors/flock of children following you through the street about What the Hell it is you are doing ...  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 17 May 2016, 22:33
The clock appears to be quite important to her, as well.  Perhaps related to a prior trauma, or just a coping "mechanism" (sorry  :claireface:). 

What happened to the scorch mark from panel 1 and the last comic?  I hope it just wiped off. 

I'm glad she latched onto Clinton.  I've been in positions like this before (not with fire, but other trauma) and it's important to have a steady hand nearby that knows what happened and how to react, even without complete understanding. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 17 May 2016, 23:07
Wow. She's got big issues with emotional extremes, it seems. So bad that it screws up her ability to function until she crests tthe hill. I wonder if she'll be able to do anything for a while!

Carl-E is right: That clock is important to her. Maybe watching the hands moving around the dial is calming in some way? If so, it is probably something that is very important to her. The vanishing scotch mark might be a hint in this direction. I can see her lovingly wiping the mark away when Clinton wasn't looking.

Cute touch: As the walls started to crumble, she feels safe enough with Clinton to make physical contact and choose him to help her. It says a lot about Clinton's character that she so quickly has come to trust him, especially given that she clearly has previously had problems with people trying to run her life (trying to assign names is never a good start).

A prediction: Brun is going to be the most challenging regular character to write that Jeph has ever had in the strip.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ankhtahr on 17 May 2016, 23:07
Okay, she's getting melty. Poor her. I know this, both from the inside, and lately a little more from the outside. Chances are high that I'm on the spectrum, and my partner definitely is. I had to help through meltdowns several times now.  Pretty sure now that Brun is neurodivergent.

And good job, Clinton. Bring her to a quiter place. She might cry soon. Calming her down won't be too easy, but being there for her will help.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 17 May 2016, 23:19
WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!
I've most often heard it shortened as Bass.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 17 May 2016, 23:40
Ok, so I did a bit of looking around, and I found this page with this woman talking about her son, who's on the spectrum, when he gets very upset he tends to just stop talking entirely, and only communicates if necessary through gestures and things like that kinda like how Brun is doing this page.

Selective Mutism caused by anxiety.

So while it is indeed still to soon to work out the rest, I'm pretty sure this little piece is solved.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: QuestionableIntentions on 17 May 2016, 23:45
And the cast gets someone else with severe psychological issues! Whoda thunk it?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 17 May 2016, 23:50
And the cast gets more eclectic with the introduction of Brun

And great going there Clinton.  Proves he's not entirely an asshole when the chips are down.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: anahata on 18 May 2016, 00:04
The clock appears to be quite important to her, as well.

Lends weight to the theory that she's picked up some German culture...
Not being derogatory by the way - I spent some time in Germany and noticed how they were always checking the time, and when you arranged to meet someone both parties were expected to arrive punctually. I really liked the way that you didn't have to hang around waiting, and when I returned to England everything seemed terribly sloppy in comparison.

I don't know if the clock also fits in with the autism theory, but I can imagine how it might.
I wonder if Jeph has had any contact with autistic people. He must know something about the condition if he's going to portray it (as he surely would want to) realistically and sympathetically.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ankhtahr on 18 May 2016, 00:06
It's not really mutism, and usually it's not actually anger. This phenomenon is usually referred to as meltdown and happens when one is completely overwhelmed by all the emotions. Talking is too difficult then. Any contact with the world is difficult. One tries to shut out everything. Having somebody around to take care of the necessary things, while one is not able to perform them, is a great help.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 18 May 2016, 00:18
Depression is similar in that regard in that when it becomes overwhelming, just dealing with ordinary everyday things gets to be too difficult, if not impossible. It manifests differently, obviously, but I get it. I have depression linked with psychosis and when my depression gets really bad, functioning at all is a serious challenge.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 18 May 2016, 00:27
I like Brun better for each strip she appears in. And I don't agree at all that she is anything like Faye - she seems a completely different animal to me. I'm amazed at Jeph's ability to write (and draw) interesting female characters.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 18 May 2016, 00:41
Quote
How tiresome. At least I rescued the clock. I'll just take a moment of time out before thinking about what to do next, where to sleep etc".
OK, timeout over. Now to deal with the fact that I'm human and not ready to deal with this without help.
Everyone rescued? Check. Major crisis over? Check. OK to break down into a helpless mess? All systems go. A delay until I have a roof over my head would be better, but the warp drives canna take it cap'n.

Super luck out that Clinton's there. I expect others to join in as needed. Claire, Marten....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Baphomet on 18 May 2016, 01:02
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.

It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.
I mean, yeah, I guess it sounds better since it's less common? Just, for the record, neurotypical translates to something like "has a normal brain" while neuroatypical and neurodivergent both translate to something like "doesn't have a normal brain". The dividing line is still being drawn between people who think the way they're "supposed" to and people who don't, instead of groups of people who think in two different but equally valid ways. The fact that it seems less judgmental has less to do with the terms actually being without judgment and more to do with the fact that people don't use the terms often enough for them to develop culturally-saturated connotations. If "neurotypical" replaced "normal" in these sorts of conversations I'm pretty sure it would develop exactly the connotation you're hoping to avoid.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 18 May 2016, 01:18
If "neurotypical" replaced "normal" in these sorts of conversations I'm pretty sure it would develop exactly the connotation you're hoping to avoid.

Maybe; but perhaps each time such a change is made, the degradation might be a little slower to happen, as a few more people get the point.  But that won't happen at all unless we try, right?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 18 May 2016, 01:23
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.

Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.

If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.

...

I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.

Ok, I 'get' why Sheldon and the Rainman tick you off, in terms of representation. And that you don't like a particular character - well, contrary to popular opinion (and local custom), there's this proverb that "there's no accounting for taste".

But ... quite a few people (myself included) seem to like Brun -  and her 'special' (sorry - sleepdep & 2nd language. Usually, I'd strangle folk for that one, but I can't come up with better right now) isn't played for laughs-and-pointing-fingers (well, not more than any other character in a webcomic), so in terms of "representation to the world at large", she might not be as much of a worry as you seem to believe? (Assuming, of course, she does indeed represent people with ASD)

(And neglecting, of course, the teensyweensy problem of being represented by a character that you personally can't stand  :-\)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Undrneath on 18 May 2016, 02:26
Super luck out that Clinton's there. I expect others to join in as needed. Claire, Marten....
If she is in fact on the spectrum introducing new people during a meltdown could be a really bad idea.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: blt on 18 May 2016, 04:12
"I know I'm not a murderer"

I dunno Clinton, that sounds exactly like what a murderer would say...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 04:17
This reminded me of a scene from a film...

Clementine: You're not a stalker, or anything, right?
Joel: I'm not a stalker. YOU'RE the one that talked to me, remember?
Clementine: That is the oldest trick in the stalker book.
Joel: Really? There's a stalker book? Great, I gotta read that one.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 04:38
Maybe; but perhaps each time such a change is made, the degradation might be a little slower to happen, as a few more people get the point.  But that won't happen at all unless we try, right?

Isn't the intent and meaning behind the words the point, rather than the use of a euphamistic word with an identical meaning? And if so, how will the practice of adopting more euphamistic language result in more people getting it?

Are you sure that you are not promoting the politician's syllogism here? ("Something must be done; this is something; therefore, we must do it")

Is it possible that the euphamism treadmill (which Baphomet was describing) does harm rather than good?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Wildroses on 18 May 2016, 04:56
I like Brun better for each strip she appears in. And I don't agree at all that she is anything like Faye - she seems a completely different animal to me. I'm amazed at Jeph's ability to write (and draw) interesting female characters.

I was one of the earliest persons comparing Brun to Faye in Brun's first few strips. Initially it was because both worked in the hospitality industry and thought it was perfectly acceptable to insult and casually threaten the patrons of your beverages. Then it was because both had their houses burn down.

And that's basically it. The sole two things they have it common.

But the more strips she appears in, the more it becomes obvious she and Faye are quite different characters with different reactions and motivations, so I will no longer be making such statements. I don't remember any occasions off the top of my head that Faye ever tried to make it up to a patron she pissed off the way Brun did. Now I've said that people with better knowledge of archives than I will probably post strips proving me wrong there.

I hope Claire isn't sitting at home freaking out because Clinton hasn't come home so he must still be mad after all *sob*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: J on 18 May 2016, 05:04
Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.
it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 05:14
As someone with partial deafness, I would cringe if anyone ever used a term llike 'sensory deficit' anywhere near me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 18 May 2016, 05:16
I hope Claire isn't sitting at home freaking out because Clinton hasn't come home so he must still be mad after all *sob*

Nah, Claire is at Marten's, having hot sex on the sofa. Even if she was at home, that's not where Clinton was headed - he was going back to his dorm at UMass. And as far as we know, Claire has no idea that he didn't make it there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 18 May 2016, 05:23
When Clinton tells her that he visited a bar and it subsequently burned down... oh, and he's sort of been self-nominated as the carer for the former barkeep...? Well, I doubt that Claire will let him out on his own ever again.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 18 May 2016, 05:26
Y'know, quick thought I had to post.

So, I'm not saying Clinton burned down her bar. I'm just saying it didn't burn down till he went there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 18 May 2016, 05:29
I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.

Why? Is that really an accurate representation? I think a fairer representation is showing that sometimes there can be negative people. Being different from thes societal norm doesn't preclude that sometimes people can be jerks. Even if they don't set out to be.

If we do see a broad spectrum of people in the QC-verse, than isn't it more realistic and engaging to the reader that they run the gamut of of the emotional and temperamental spectrum as well?
It's not that people can't be jerks, it's that I don't really know of many autistic characters in fiction who *aren't* jerks.

...

I'm optimistic about Brun, but the introduction of her character made it clear that she really wasn't a likeable person in the slightest. This might change overtime, Jeph usually takes a few weeks or months of comics to really pin down his characters, and even if the most recent comics her negative traits haven't been around at all (Though this is mostly true because there's not been a chance to showcase them), but if she keeps her personality from her introduction, she's just a repellent person to be around.

Ok, I 'get' why Sheldon and the Rainman tick you off, in terms of representation. And that you don't like a particular character - well, contrary to popular opinion (and local custom), there's this proverb that "there's no accounting for taste".

But ... quite a few people (myself included) seem to like Brun -  and her 'special' (sorry - sleepdep & 2nd language. Usually, I'd strangle folk for that one, but I can't come up with better right now) isn't played for laughs-and-pointing-fingers (well, not more than any other character in a webcomic), so in terms of "representation to the world at large", she might not be as much of a worry as you seem to believe? (Assuming, of course, she does indeed represent people with ASD)

(And neglecting, of course, the teensyweensy problem of being represented by a character that you personally can't stand  :-\)

Well, that's why I started this whole discussion by saying that *I* wasn't a big fan of her representing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 18 May 2016, 05:31
Isn't the intent and meaning behind the words the point, rather than the use of a euphemistic word with an identical meaning?

Yes - but how do you get that across?  There are various ways to explain, but sometimes using a different word provides a hook for that which would not otherwise arise.

Quote
Is it possible that the euphemism treadmill (which Baphomet was describing) does harm rather than good?

Harm? - probably not.  But for there to be a benefit, there has to be explanation going along with the modified vocabulary at some point; while a few people might get it on their own as a result, that will not necessarily be a significant proportion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: J on 18 May 2016, 05:35
As someone with partial deafness, I would cringe if anyone ever used a term llike 'sensory deficit' anywhere near me.

must...resist...easy...joke...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 05:37
So, I'm not saying Clinton burned down her bar. I'm just saying it didn't burn down till he went there.

Well, you know. When one of the story's protagonists turns up at your quiet little bar, you know that it won't be a quiet night.   :mrgreen:

Harm? - probably not.  But for there to be a benefit, there has to be explanation going along with the modified vocabulary at some point; while a few people might get it on their own as a result, that will not necessarily be a significant proportion.

Yes, there does, and that is one of the issues. People discussing these issues often think the terms they use are common coin, but they are akin to jargon. Most people have their own interpretations of such euphemisms, and those interpretations probably would not be to your liking.

Any more thoughts on the topic will have to wait until I've slept.

As someone with partial deafness, I would cringe if anyone ever used a term llike 'sensory deficit' anywhere near me.

must...resist...easy...joke...

Awww, I was kind of hoping someone would, actually. I left the opening... :clairedoge:

P.S. I have a bad habit of misspelling "euphemism"... :p
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mordhaus on 18 May 2016, 06:10
Is it just me or is Jeph slowly drawing Clinton as a more studly type guy? Since the fire I keep expecting him to do a Fabio hair flip.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: dexeron on 18 May 2016, 06:12
I can definitely relate to Brun here.  In extremely stressful situations (like a car accident) I've been the coolest head in the "room," making sure everyone was ok, speaking with authorities, arranging pick-up etc... and then once I was sure that everyone was safe and that everything had been taken care off, adrenaline or shock or whatever else wore off and all the emotions and memories flooded in and I turned into a gibbering wreck.

I don't personally shut down communication-wise when overwhelmed (I'm on the spectrum, and do have rare issues where I get overwhelmed by stimulus/stress, but I don't shut down in that way), but I can see how, now that the most pressing crises have been more or less "resolved," and now that shock is wearing off and the body is letting down its defenses, that's when it all starts crashing in.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 18 May 2016, 06:31
Yeah, I'm pretty much the same way. I panic after the problem is resolved.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Roxtar on 18 May 2016, 06:44
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.

"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 May 2016, 07:36
I dunno, being called "vertically challenged" is a lot nicer sounding than being called "short and fat," IMNSHO.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 18 May 2016, 07:38
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.

"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"
Except these aren't trivial details. Her speech patterns, trouble with emotion, and going nonverbal are all a pretty damned specific set of traits.  And I don't think anyone is projecting their own identities - I'm saying she's probably autistic, not that she's me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Roxtar on 18 May 2016, 07:45
Also @Roxtar: I think that's uncalled for. Going non-verbal is a pretty specific issue. If Brun isn't autistic, there aren't a great deal of other explanations which make sense.
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.

"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"
Except these aren't trivial details. Her speech patterns, trouble with emotion, and going nonverbal are all a pretty damned specific set of traits.  And I don't think anyone is projecting their own identities - I'm saying she's probably autistic, not that she's me.
here's a common one that does make sense. We've all been to the point where we're on the verge of crying and we need to not talk in order to keep us from going over the edge.
this has happened to literally everyone... making it a trivial detail.
speech patterns: german name, cuckoo clock: likely german immigrant.
problem with emotion: see speech patterns above.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: heyjames4 on 18 May 2016, 08:18
On neurotypical/neuroatypical: Those words have the appearance of being neutral descriptive terms. Like most neutral descriptive terms used in emotionally charged environments, they will accrete value judgements, if they haven't already. One of the other posters already brought up the idea of the euphemism treadmill (google it, can't link from work).

All that being said; in my experience I've seen neurotypical used pejoratively by spectrum advocates more often than the other way around.

Clinton's totally right to check in with the investigators before leaving the scene of an ongoing structure fire. 'hello authority, i'm witness #4, witness #5 and I are going to motel 6, you've already interviewed us, here's my contact info, she's got nowhere else to go"

On what happens next:
If Brun goes deeper, Clinton may panic. Which of the QC crew are best equipped to help him through it?
It's been a while since Faye's had to deploy the +3 breasts of slumber. I assume she's also got a very steady heartbeat.
I want to see Hannelore interact with Brun--Clinton. Hanners knows how to care-give, and it would be neat to see her seeing Clinton's character growth given his introduction, and her history includes episodes of going into safe mode in response to overwhelming stimulus. Though she's probably the last person in the crew he'd think to call.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Milayna on 18 May 2016, 08:25
Chiming in here to mostly agree with #128, sans forum-stalking - the only other time I've viewed this forum was when Claire's trans status came up.

But yeah, as an aspie myself it definitely looks to me like Brun is autistic...my thoughts on her basically went from "she's a jerk he just wants a friggin wster / ok, I'm kinda starting to identify with her, hmmm... / (after the fire) the way she describes it, the way she just stares, I wonder if...? / Ok, she's melting down. she's definitely autistic."

I'm going to address a few other posts than say more about my reaction...

#173: Yeah how dare we try to identify with character. Especially when characters like us are nearly nonexistent! When people like you are literally every single character and our very existence down't warrant acknowledgment! Excuuuuuse us for latching onto what representation we can find! Why are you even reading this comic? (Also her behavior is not a "trivial detail".

@156: I wouldn't agree that it's a bad thing NECESSARILY to introduce her with a meltdown, but that's just my view. It's similar in a way to if Claire was introduced by someone walking into her changing. I think it kind of has to be that way though, which is itself problematic. Like, Claire can pass for Regular Woman in normal interaction, but with mental disorders, it's much harder to do that...the alternative to introducing her this way would be to have her around for months before coming out as autistic...which would invite months of people going "WTF is wrong with her, why is she acting r-------?" And it's very hard to justify her just casually dropping the a-bomb on a stranger. I actually kind of hope that Jeph is able to address this aspect...

#148: That's a fair way of stating it. When I was young my response to dealing with being overwhelmed was the opposite, to let it all and scream and hit and be uncontrollable. As I matured I was finally able to understand that my behavior was unacceptable and I needed to learn to assess, filter and control my responses to things; but given the processing needed to communicate coherent thoughts I can easily understand that shutting down under stress.

#130: I agree with this as well. Most of my like for her comes from identifying with her; so far she seems to be a jerk. Well, if I throw stones I'll end up on the same boat. I'll address this more in my own response but for now I'll say that I really hope she doesn't just confirm the idea that autistic people are too r------- to know how to act with people without being intolerable jackasses.

#115: Adding another data point. Especially after the fact, I am often able to analyze what people say and find their underpinnings; in context, when dealing with emotions and stress, it takes most of my ability to remember how to output Words in a Coherent Argument while Remembering What's Already Ben Said. Being autistic does not mean that one is incapable of understanding social things; for me, at least, it means that I have to process a lot of it intellectually because my emotional processing does not interface with my output well. #107: For me, the "Immediate" part is not in my wheelhouse; the "precise" part, I'm decent enough, I think.

Ok, so for my part: First, to continue what I said in #130 about her being a jerk: I can speculate on this: Given what she's said about her name I think she's probably been given a lot of crap in her life about being "abnormal" and expects that in general from people. It looks to me like she puts up a wall, limiting her interaction to avoid people cottoning on to her mind and causing conflict, and being standoffish so that if they DO have a problem it can be attributed to being a jerk in general, rather than a sincere effort that she failed. OF COURSE she's barely been introduced so I'm pulling this almost entirely out of my ass.

I can't remember which post but someone noted her focus on that clock...having a Thing to focus on, especially one that makes regular, predictable movement, can help greatly to calm and focus my mind, so I can concentrate on what people are doing and what's going on rather than spending half my attention controlling the other half. It's also an excuse to not look directly at people, which can be very stressful (in the bar, she looks at Clinton obliquely pretty often, and after the fire she almost never looks directly at anyone).

That's all that I have for now. If I think of something pertinent or want to address subsequent posts I may chime in again.

Oh, and kind of late I guess, but first post. Greetings to everyone here ^_^
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Y on 18 May 2016, 08:33
I actually thought she had a normal reaction for someone who has just lost everything they owned. Some people would try to fight their tears in that case, other people might get mad. Though I'm a diagnosed aspie so I don't see certain behaviors as 'wrong' or abnormal.

Actually telling the police that you're not a murderer is very suspicious, so I first though Clinton was being paranoid.

If Brun goes deeper, Clinton may panic. Which of the QC crew are best equipped to help him through it?
Not sure what you mean by deeper. I think Clinton would do fine to comfort her, she knows Clinton the best from the cast anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Milayna on 18 May 2016, 09:46
I was also going to mention that she closed her eyes, she's shutting out stimulus because she's getting overwhelmed. That and her body language in the third panel, scrunching herself up, are the biggest things that signals to me that she's autistic.

Also: She wants Clinton's help, rather than the officer. While she doesn't know a LOT about Clinton, over the past few hours she's seen him enough to know that a) he's safe, and b) she's seen him enough to develop SOME familiarity with his disposition and behavior. She knows nothing at all about the officers. She doesn't know how to predict or respond to them, and she's not in a position to easily identify and analyze that. This makes a lot of sense to me, it's FAAAAR less stressful to deal with a quantity you know at least a little about and have already figured out how to deal with than one you know know nothing at all about.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: aliensporebomb on 18 May 2016, 09:56
I think Milayna's assessment is spot on about the closing eyes and body language in trying to shut out stimulus - that's how I perceived it too.

And Clinton displayed unexpected leadership tendencies when he got people out of the bar safely, acted as liaison between Brun and said policewoman and made efforts to make sure she had a place to go. 

Well who wouldn't trust a guy like that to do the right thing?



Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 18 May 2016, 10:59
Also: She wants Clinton's help, rather than the officer. While she doesn't know a LOT about Clinton, over the past few hours she's seen him enough to know that a) he's safe, and b) she's seen him enough to develop SOME familiarity with his disposition and behavior. She knows nothing at all about the officers. She doesn't know how to predict or respond to them, and she's not in a position to easily identify and analyze that. This makes a lot of sense to me, it's FAAAAR less stressful to deal with a quantity you know at least a little about and have already figured out how to deal with than one you know know nothing at all about.

That, and if she's an immigrant, she may be from a place where you can't really trust the police. 


Not that you always can here, of course.   :police:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 18 May 2016, 11:06
I'm seeing a lot more projection than actual evidence that Brun is autistic - I'll point out Tova's signature to everyone. Just because autistic people have some behaviors, and Brun has had some of those behaviors, doesn't automatically make her autistic. Being overloaded to the point of not speaking in the manner she does is not an inherently autistic reaction. Getting overwhelmed is a normal reaction, and the wide variety of ways people react to being overwhelmed is also normal. What's different about stuff like autism is the amount and character of what constitutes overwhelming, which can vary dramatically.

It seems like there are two trends going on in this thread. There's the overblown conversation about normality and typicality that's tipping into implications that there isn't any human behavior that's abnormal, letting the occasional negative connotations of that label override its actual applicability. Real talk here; EVERYONE is a little bit abnormal, just like everyone's a little bit crazy. What changes is how much our abnormalities affect people's perception of us, and what is considered abnormal; those with social abnormalities are more noticeable, but there are plenty of people who may seem 'normal' in a conversation but wash their hands 5 1/2 (right hand an extra time) every time they squash a bug. 'Normal' is a cultural construct, but that doesn't invalidate it any more than other cultural constructs get invalidated; it's okay to feel uncomfortable if someone gets in your personal space even if your a German in Brazil.

At the same time, there's an eager discussion about what kind of abnormal Brun is, which is at odds with the other trend in that it keeps assuming normal behaviors are abnormal. I just mentioned  the main one at the top, but we've seen plenty of other. Even within the universe, Dora, generally considered 'normal' until her abnormal trust issues got more focus, pulled a sword on a person, and unlike Brun brandished it with anger in her eyes. Her syntax is just as associated with linguistics as it is with atypical thought processes. And so on. Again, speculation is cool, but declarations are doing her character a disservice.

Question: Where the heck are all the other bargoers she was apparently more familiar with? I wouldn't trust him with a fishing pole, but where's Barry?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Atherea on 18 May 2016, 11:23
I've been following QC and lurking the forums here for a couple years, but never posted until now.

I tend to have a very similar reaction to Brun when I'm under extreme stress. Talking becomes difficult, as does the simple act of breathing. Even the way she keeps her eyes shut from the fourth panel onward. I'm often reduced to rigid, forced gestures and silence. This is generally an attempt to keep from completely breaking down and becoming hysterical in front of people (particularly people with whom I'm not entirely comfortable yet).

I've also noticed (pre-fire) that some of her behaviors are similar to my own when dealing with the public. My jokes are awkward and deadpan, I limit my conversation and responses, and I often come off as rude or a snob when it's not at all what I intended. Even the whole "threatening" with the harpoon is something I might have done -- I would have seen it as amusing and absurd, but there have been a lot of people here in the forums who blew it way out of proportion in a way I don't understand.

Despite that, I'm not on the autism spectrum; I DO have severe anxiety from past trauma that makes dealing with most people extremely difficult for me. That's not to say Brun doesn't have some degree of autism, but there ARE other explanations for the behavior and reactions we've seen thus far.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 18 May 2016, 12:00
If Brun does become a regular her presence will make Clinton less quirky. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 18 May 2016, 12:04
OK, two things.

Regarding the use of the word "normal" - I understand why the word raises some red flags for some people, but I think the word is useful. There *is* an average in everything, and this average is both the basis and the result of both innate and cultural expectations. There are people who are outside the bracket that we can call "normal". I don't see a problem with the word itself. In everything, including human behaviour and interaction, there is a template, a default go-to for the given time and place. I should know, I've been outside this behavioral bracket way more often than I would've liked to, usually with either hilarious or painful results. Denying that the "normal" exists is, to me, akin to closing one's eyes and hoping the concept of "normal" goes away. Which it never does. And I doubt it ever will. Humans are conditioned to assess things based on norms of one kind or another.

What I *do* have a problem with is both the automatic assumption that abnormal is bad, and the prejudice and fear that any kind of abnormal behaviour usually provokes. This automatic fear of what is unusual is ridiculous and leads almost universally to harm rather than good. But I don't think denying the term "normal" its weight is the way to go. I think it's better to repurpose the word so that it does not have universally negative connotations. But maybe that's just me.

As to Brun being autistic or not, and whether people are projecting... OK, I'm not seeing much projecting. Based on my limited knowledge about the autism spectrum and interactions with autistic people, her behaviour broadly and consistently just... fits the mold. It's not just one or two things that someone has latched on. It's a lot of signs that point in one particular direction. And yes, each of those can be explained differently. But I think Occam's razor, combined with the fact that the comic is a work of fiction, make other explanations unlikely.

Firstly, autism or another disorder from the autism spectrum seems, at least to me, like the simplest, most elegantly fitting explanation. Other explanations require some, for the lack of a better word, squinting. Yes, she might be an immigrant and also be just unusual in some behaviours, or have trust issues etc., but those do not seem to fit easily what we've seen in the comic. It takes some interpretation to *make* certain explanations fit. Autism seems more natural.

Secondly, this is a comic. I would not jump to conclusions too fast with a real person after just one interaction, but in a work of fiction, there are only so many details and signs that can be presented. Unless it's a deliberate misdirection by the author, usually the clear, simple explanation works, because otherwise the work gets confusing. It's a matter of conservation of details. If there's a scene in a movie when someone has to go to the bathroom, that usually serves a narrative purpose (usually something goes wrong in their absence or something bad happens to them in the bathroom; alternatively, they have a moment of introspection related to them being alone). There aren't many stories where someone goes to the bathrom, returns from it and nothing happens outside of more experimental works. Similarly, if a person displays certain traits, it's usually to signal something. Brun's behaviour points to a possible explanation and the comic has explored things like OCD in the past, so Brun's being autistic seems to be a plausible explanation. If some people do not see this? It's perfectly fine. I personally see this as near-certain based on what I've seen. It's OK if you disagree.

And I'm not on the autistic spectrum, that I know of, so I don't think my opinion is due to my projecting.

As a side note, isn't the "you're projecting!" argument non-falsifiable, and therefore not very useful in a discussion? One can always say that, but it's better to talk about the actual comic and discuss whether a certain explanation is valid. I personally think accusing someone of projecting is slightly patronising and condescending. It's also a kind of an ad hominem.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 18 May 2016, 13:06
...
speech patterns: german name, cuckoo clock: likely german immigrant.
problem with emotion: see speech patterns above.


I'd ask you to re-read that & to try again. Discussing "cultural conventions about emoting" is one thing - equating "(having) problems with emotions" with "(being) German" is another.
Thanks for your understanding.

OK, two things
...
+2 Internets

---
General ether: I find it quite easy to understand that people who experience-, and deal with a thing 24/7 tend to have a rather thorough grasp on the subject matter - second only to medical professionals.
I do not think this is due to my also being neuro-a-typical (albeit not on the spectrum) - it's simple logic.

As to the general tone of the debate, which quite frankly borders on "explaining" to people what they can and cannot think and say about a medical condition they live with every day ... I'll just point to oddtail, because I'm not in a emotional state suitable for explaining things calmly and rationally right now. If this was about OCD and/or ADHD, I'd have to stare very hard at my (non-existing) cuckoo-clock in order not to give an ... impressive ... demonstration of Germans' emotive abilities.

It's common courtesy, common sense and explicit forum policy that *trans people are "the leading experts on their condition" (points to forum rules). While *trans-issues are undoubtedly on the most urgent possible level, I fail to see how that difference frees us from continuing to muster the simple decency of treating people as if they know what is happening in their lives, and which problems they face on a  daily basis.

This forum is better than this.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: J on 18 May 2016, 13:14
Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.
it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.

People with white skin are globally a minority, less than 10%. Their skin aren't dark, what's up with that? They can't block out harmful UV rays effectively, I think it's perfectly appropriate to call that a defect.

This is clearly a ridiculous argument, but defects are subjective and can only be characterised in reference to a baseline. What that baseline is is entirely arbitrary.

the human body has adapted via natural selection to produce a chemical called melanin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin), which among other things regulates the amount of UV radiation that the body absorbs. humans who produce more melanin are indeed more resistant UV damage, but makes them more susceptible to vitamin D deficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovitaminosis_D#Darker_skin_color). humans who's bodies produce less melanin have the opposite problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#UV_radiation). both of these traits are ultimately the result of the same mechanism performing the same task toward the same end, only calibrated to do so in different environmental conditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#Evolution_of_skin_color).

this does not hold true for humans who are unable to produce melanin at all, which is a severely maladaptive trait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanism#Signs_and_symptoms). there is nothing arbitrary or subjective about distinguishing between a mechanism which functions at varying specified levels, and one which is physically incapable of doing so.


if you have a 6-cylinder car which is unable to reach highway speeds because only 3 of the cylinders fire, then the car is broken. damaged or non-functional components are preventing it from performing the task for which it was designed and built. this has nothing to do with arbitrary baselines, or cultural expectations, or statistical norms; it is an objective assessment of a machine & its level of functionality.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 18 May 2016, 13:49
As a side note, isn't the "you're projecting!" argument non-falsifiable, and therefore not very useful in a discussion? One can always say that, but it's better to talk about the actual comic and discuss whether a certain explanation is valid. I personally think accusing someone of projecting is slightly patronizing and condescending. It's also a kind of an ad hominem.
No. Projection is fairly simple; Person A has seen/experienced/have characteristic X, Person B exhibits characteristic X, therefore Person A extrapolates other qualities and identifies with person B. Noting that something is projection is a statement of objective fact when a person directly says "I have experienced X before, they're doing X, therefore they have this other trait.' At least 10 people have made and reiterated arguments to that effect, with several more who were more vague. It's bad because it's based on a single reference point (what Person A has observed) which ignores that both Person A and B are individuals with individual reactions, and wrongly associates characteristics that may be only loosely related.

There are actual diagnostic criteria for the Autism spectrum, but they aren't even being discussed. It's all personal experiences, opinions, and comparisons to other fictional characters. It also keeps crossing from opinion to being discussed as assumed fact.

The bottom line is that it's premature. No, a comic won't have lots of detail, but we haven't even finished one encounter with her, and a lot of people have said that their assessment is based on her reaction to the fire, which is hardly indicative of someone's regular state of being.

Saying an autistic person has severe psychological issues seems a bit like describing a white person as having a pigmentation defect.
it seems to me that a more apt comparison would be saying that a person with albinism has a pigmentation defect. or that a person with deafness has a sensory deficit.
People with white skin are globally a minority, less than 10%. Their skin aren't dark, what's up with that? They can't block out harmful UV rays effectively, I think it's perfectly appropriate to call that a defect.

This is clearly a ridiculous argument, but defects are subjective and can only be characterised in reference to a baseline. What that baseline is is entirely arbitrary.
The human body has adapted via natural selection to produce a chemical called melanin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin), which among other things regulates the amount of UV radiation that the body absorbs. humans who produce more melanin are indeed more resistant UV damage, but makes them more susceptible to vitamin D deficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypovitaminosis_D#Darker_skin_color). humans who's bodies produce less melanin have the opposite problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#UV_radiation). both of these traits are ultimately the result of the same mechanism performing the same task toward the same end, only calibrated to do so in different environmental conditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#Evolution_of_skin_color).

This does not hold true for humans who are unable to produce melanin at all, which is a severely maladaptive trait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanism#Signs_and_symptoms). there is nothing arbitrary or subjective about distinguishing between a mechanism which functions at varying levels, and one which is incapable of doing so.

If you have a 6-cylinder car which is unable to reach highway speeds because only 3 of the cylinders fire, then the car is broken. damaged or non-functional components are preventing it from performing the task for which it was designed and built.
This is clearly a ridiculous argument

Though I'll add that there is far more than 10% of humans who are white. Europeans aren't the only pale people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: St.Clair on 18 May 2016, 14:49
Shout out to all my fellow East African Plains Apes, of any and all shades of brown.  (I tend to "fishbelly" myself, and have been known to joke that I don't have a color, but an albedo.)

Also:
The euphemism treadmill is absolutely a thing, and any term you pick, no matter how clinical or neutral, will acquire moral and/or judgmental implications in popular use.  That, for good or ill, is simply how people are.  We name and sort things into categories, reduce them to generalizations, because if we had to constantly evaluate every single situation or object or person on their own observed qualities, in real time, without resorting to these cognitive shortcuts - and there are case studies of people with, let's say "differently functioning" brains who literally have to do this - we'd never get anything else done.  And in the process, we tend to attach positive or negative weight to these observed traits, mostly on the basis of how similar they are to us. :/

Reducing the complex to the simple and manageable is not, in itself, a problem.  Refusing to reevaluate, reconsider and possibly recategorize on the basis of new data is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 18 May 2016, 15:04
There's a lot more people up in arms about opinions and early speculation than I anticipated.

In any case, I'm glad she's becoming "a character." I was hoping she would from when she was first shown, her first panel made it looks like she was just a one or two-liner character for comedic relief in the moment though.

Also hi everyone, first post here - thought I made an account about a month ago but apparently I didn't so I made one yesterday. :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 18 May 2016, 16:13
WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!

The protagonist of The Neverending Story is named Bastian, which could certainly be an abbreviation of Sebastian. For that matter, there was an Egyptian goddess named Bast, and someone else already mentioned Bas (pronounced "Bass", like the fish, not the vocal range or the stringed instrument).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Roxtar on 18 May 2016, 16:41
...
speech patterns: german name, cuckoo clock: likely german immigrant.
problem with emotion: see speech patterns above.


I'd ask you to re-read that & to try again. Discussing "cultural conventions about emoting" is one thing - equating "(having) problems with emotions" with "(being) German" is another.
Thanks for your understanding.

I did word that poorly, but you seem to have gotten my point which was that in addition to being unaware of typical syntax, being unaware of social norms regarding expression of emotion in another culture is common amongst immigrant populations.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 18 May 2016, 18:11
AFAIK, French 'u' is pretty close to German 'ü', at least to an American ear.
The world should make a place for umlauts.

And it seems clear that Brün will be with us for a while and Clinton will have to deal. He's doing fine so far. Attaboy!

And 'normal'? I'm neromediocre, thank you very much.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mustang6172 on 18 May 2016, 18:12
Brün.
Definitely the umlaut, from the way Clinton tries to say it.

Wouldn't the umlaut make it more like "Breen"?

No, a helmet would make it more like Breen.

(http://www.dougandkris.com/doug/breen.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Undrneath on 18 May 2016, 18:59
Every time I see the word umlaut I can't help of think about oubliettes 'deep dark oubliettes'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 19:45
As I expect that I was at least one of the targets of this post (see below, right down the bottom), I felt that I should respond.

My post did suggest that I disrespect the way that people self-identify, and I apologise for that. As you say, people are the experts on their own experience, and I should in no way suggest that they are somehow incorrect in the way that they describe themselves.

Unfortunately, in more general discussion (which was the original context of the discussion as far as I was aware at the time), the euphemism treadmill is a very real occurrence, whether you like it or not. My intention was that people consider this, rather than to impose my own ideas of what language to use (which is why my initial post was in the form of questions). Careful selection of language is indeed a good and useful thing, but it needs to be done mindfully. And yes, the intent behind the language is the most important thing. There was a suggestion that this cannot be divined, but I disagree. I think that people are surprisingly good at divining the intent behind language - I saw some posts that back this up somewhere, but I don't have the time to find them now.

A couple of specific points:

The slurs that ADD, ASD, or the umbrella-term neuro-a-typical are a "euphemism" for are e.g. "Freak", "Spaz", "Schizo", "Idiot", "Retard" ...

At least one of these slurs - namely, retarded - started out as a euphemism for terms like "idiot," or "slow." Did you know?

It is a slur now precisely because of the intent behind its use.

You can live with cis & het, but not with neurotypical?

I am fine with all of those terms. Actually, I quite like 'neurotypical', for whatever that is worth (really not much).

However, in general, my point that such terms can in some cases essentially be jargon to the larger populace, and therefore may not communicate what you think that they do, stands. As does the point that these terms will, in time, inevitably carry the negative connotations you seek to avoid. So long as you are aware of these things, go for your life. Use the language you need to use, that best communicates your intent.

To be honest, I prefer to call a spade a spade, and I'm not so much a fan of calling a spade a 'soil removal device,' but I'm also not a fan of calling a spade a fucking shovel. If that helps to understand my perspective.

I apologise that I'm still probably not explaining myself well. It's too bad we can't discuss face to face.

As a side note, isn't the "you're projecting!" argument non-falsifiable, and therefore not very useful in a discussion? One can always say that, but it's better to talk about the actual comic and discuss whether a certain explanation is valid. I personally think accusing someone of projecting is slightly patronising and condescending. It's also a kind of an ad hominem.

Actually, I think that it can be pretty useful, in the right context.

Projecting is perhaps not wrong in and of itself. There's nothing wrong, really, with identifying with a particular character because that character shares a trait or an experience with you (in fact it can be helpful), or loathing another because they share a trait with an adulterous ex, or something. However, while this identification can help you in some cases, it can blind you in others. Maybe that character you identify with waved a shotgun in someone's face, and you refuse to accept that maybe that wasn't such a good thing to do. Or maybe that other character has some quite positive qualities mixed in with the ones that you see as bad, which you are unable to see because you can't look past that ex. In such cases, it is quite useful to point out that your projection is preventing you from acknowledging these things.

The full post that the opening of this post responded to:

General ether: I find it quite easy to understand that people who experience-, and deal with a thing 24/7 tend to have a rather thorough grasp on the subject matter - second only to medical professionals.
I do not think this is due to my also being neuro-a-typical (albeit not on the spectrum) - it's simple logic.

As to the general tone of the debate, which quite frankly borders on "explaining" to people what they can and cannot think and say about a medical condition they live with every day ... I'll just point to oddtail, because I'm not in a emotional state suitable for explaining things calmly and rationally right now. If this was about OCD and/or ADHD, I'd have to stare very hard at my (non-existing) cuckoo-clock in order not to give an ... impressive ... demonstration of Germans' emotive abilities.

It's common courtesy, common sense and explicit forum policy that *trans people are "the leading experts on their condition" (points to forum rules). While *trans-issues are undoubtedly on the most urgent possible level, I fail to see how that difference frees us from continuing to muster the simple decency of treating people as if they know what is happening in their lives, and which problems they face on a  daily basis.

This forum is better than this.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: TheCollector on 18 May 2016, 21:43
Ahahahaa, I love Brun. :3 <3
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 18 May 2016, 21:46
Ahahahaa, I love Brun. :3 <3

I would like to second this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 18 May 2016, 21:48
Three pictures. That is two pictures more than I expect to find in a hotel room. 

They were out late, it's 11:4something.

Why is his right sleeve still rolled up? Because she needs to recharge?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 18 May 2016, 22:04
O man, hotel bathrooms are loud so I sympathize with wanting him to leave. Also for having all your possessions burned.. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that being the only shirt to now own.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 18 May 2016, 22:17
Hmm... I wouldn't mind seeing Brun and Clinton out shopping for new clothes. That can only end in hilarious disaster.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 18 May 2016, 22:27
If you don't respect pooping privacy, your proboscis will pay a prohibitive price.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 18 May 2016, 22:37
If you don't respect pooping privacy, your proboscis will pay a prohibitive price.
Preposterous! Prompt police will pop up!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 18 May 2016, 22:45
If you don't respect pooping privacy, your proboscis will pay a prohibitive price.
Preposterous! Prompt police will pop up!

Prompt police! POOP police, probably!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 18 May 2016, 22:57
I can sympathize with Clinton.  I never know when to end a conversation and leave.  I always feel like I'm being rude if I excuse myself before being dismissed. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 18 May 2016, 23:17
Yeah, especially an odd situation like that too. Pretty whacky night all things considered so I'm sure he's not thinking 100% clearly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 18 May 2016, 23:36
I think that this is proof that Brun isn't exactly a 'damsel in distress'. She's been down this road (what I saw described as a 'meltdown' several times yesterday) many times before. She doesn't want or need someone to sit there to hold her hand all night. She's lived with this all her life, after all. She must know how to handle it. All she needed was someone trustworthy to get her to a safe spot where she could unwind. That thing with the note in panel 6 said to me: "Shoo! Go home! I'll be fine!"

It's nice that she wants to see him tomorrow. I suspect that Clinton has behaved atypically enough for her to want to know more. Friendship is definitely happening there.

So, IMHO, that's the end of this arc. Any bets what Jeph will do tomorrow? I'm thinking Marten and Claire in bed. They're discussing Clinton. Marten tells Claire he's sure Clinton  is okay. With the exception of his time associating with Emily, when does anything exciting happen to him? Pintsize pipes up that maybe he rescued a fair damsel from a fire and that they are destined to be soul-mates. Marten and Claire tell him not to talk nonsense. Now, go to your cupboard to recharge!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 18 May 2016, 23:41
That's an awfully detailed speculation, do you already have sketches drawn up too to go along with it? Are you going to make that panel reality even if Jeph doesn't? Are you willing to go the distance?

(Okay yeah I need sleep..)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 00:08
She's been down this road many times before.
What do you base that on?

That thing with the note in panel 6 said to me: "Shoo! Go home! I'll be fine!"
Prettty sure that was meant to say "go away now, I need to poop!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 19 May 2016, 00:09
She's been down this road many times before.

What do you base that on?

It's all explained in my previous post.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 00:09
It's nice that she wants to see him tomorrow.

She doesn't actually say that. The note does not specify anything about "tomorrow", and she doesn't really respond to it when Clinton mentions it. *shrug*

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to set yourself on fire.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 00:12
It's nice that she wants to see him tomorrow.
She doesn't actually say that. The note does not specify anything about "tomorrow", and she doesn't really respond to it when Clinton mentions it. *shrug*
She nods emphatically and affirmatively in the third panel.

She's been down this road many times before.
What do you base that on?
It's all explained in my previous post.

Your previous post is:
When Clinton tells her that he visited a bar and it subsequently burned down... oh, and he's sort of been self-nominated as the carer for the former barkeep...? Well, I doubt that Claire will let him out on his own ever again.

Your previous previous post is:
Wow. She's got big issues with emotional extremes, it seems. So bad that it screws up her ability to function until she crests the hill. I wonder if she'll be able to do anything for a while!
Carl-E is right: That clock is important to her. Maybe watching the hands moving around the dial is calming in some way? If so, it is probably something that is very important to her. The vanishing scotch mark might be a hint in this direction. I can see her lovingly wiping the mark away when Clinton wasn't looking.
Cute touch: As the walls started to crumble, she feels safe enough with Clinton to make physical contact and choose him to help her. It says a lot about Clinton's character that she so quickly has come to trust him, especially given that she clearly has previously had problems with people trying to run her life (trying to assign names is never a good start).
A prediction: Brun is going to be the most challenging regular character to write that Jeph has ever had in the strip.

And then I stopped looking. I see no reasoning for concluding that many times in her life, she has been traumatized to the point of inaudibility.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 00:17
Right, she does. I stand corrected.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 00:18
Right, she does. I stand corrected.
It's okay, I assume you saw the tomorrow mention in the last panel and got mixed up.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 19 May 2016, 00:31
@Eastrim,

 :roll:

Okay, as you apparently have a blind spot for the rest of the post you originally quoted:

She's lived with this all her life, after all. She must know how to handle it.

Conditions like hers typically first manifest in childhood. She's certainly had experiences worse than this before.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 19 May 2016, 00:43
For some reason I am mildly surprised there is no umlaut.  :psyduck:
I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.


DISCLAIMER:  I'm not a linguistt
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 00:44
She's been down this road many times before.
What do you base that on?

It's based on a series of assumptions and speculations (about her condition and history) that are fairly reasonable, although not known for certain to be true; but just remember that speculation is what BenRG does. This is about as well-justified as speculation gets around here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 00:48
:roll: Okay, as you apparently have a blind spot for the rest of the post you originally quoted:

She's lived with this all her life, after all. She must know how to handle it.

Conditions like hers typically first manifest in childhood. She's certainly had experiences worse than this before.
Okay, the eyerolling is uncalled for and rude. I think it natural to read 'previous post' as not the one I quoted (being the one that I quoted, which would be"the post you quoted" as you say), but the one previous to it. Don't blame me for your phrasing.

Also, if I read the post and then quoted it to ask a question, then I clearly did not see an explanation there. Saying "lived with this all her live" is a vague constant. Disaster, setbacks, situational muteness, her cuckoo clock? The subject 'this' is not specified. The likely subject may be "this road (what I saw described as a 'meltdown'," but that itself is pretty vague, and not an "all her life" kind of thing. I've had colds a dozen or two times, gotten blisters more than I can count, but neither would count as an "all my life" occurrence.


Wait.

Where IS the cuckoo clock? she doesn't have it in her hands when walking in, just the room card. It doesn't show up in later panels.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 00:56
For some reason I am mildly surprised there is no umlaut.  :psyduck:
I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.


DISCLAIMER:  I'm not a linguistt

Well, if Brun was born in the US, it is likely that her name has been anglified. That happens a lot, since English doesn't use umlaut marks. Her name might even be pronounced as if it had those umlauts, depending on her family's traditions. But possibly not.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 19 May 2016, 01:00
And if it is Autism that drives her character's unusual traits, I can't say I'm a particular fan of the representation here. (Amd it seems weird that she was so acute and on point in 3215.)
As an aspie, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Today's been an off day.
In reference to comic 3215, she's apparently able to quickly and easily discern the real source of Clinton's conflict, get right to the heart of the matter, and precisely steer him towards a clear and immediate self-realization. As an aspie myself, I only have my own experiences to go off of, but I can't possibly see that kind of immediate and precise social navigation ever being in my wheelhouse of skills.

In regards to her characterization as a whole, I just don't find her all too pleasant. Prior to the fire, she's willfully unhelpful, threatens Clinton for no good reason, and seems to dislike helping customers. After the fire she's not been as bad, though she's still done little to endear herself to me besides being in a sympathetic position. I can't easily care for someone who acts like an unhelpful dick most of the time, even if they're amusing and willing to be *less* of a dick if you call them out on it.

I'm all for representation, but I'd rather that representation be with positive characters.
She likely has a lot of practice with  it and may have studied psychology in college (speaking from experience).

As for her coldness. Ever worked in the customer service industry (restaurants, retail, that sort of thing)? Dependent on one's job, length of employment, and personality, one can become quickly embittered. Not to mention that she could be an international resident. America has an aggressive, almost violent, overemphasis on customer service industry employees  being smiling, cheerful, and ready to blow sunshine up the customer's ass all while taking whatever verbal/emotional abuse they dish out. Other countries don't have that. EDIT: Don't have that as badly.

On the note of representation; after all of the half-assed and outright wrong portrayals in Hollywood and TV (especially cable news), I just want something that's as accurate and honest as possible  and I don't really care so much if it's positive or not. Hollywood wouldn't know accuracy if it walked up and punched them in the face. With the exception of Dan Akroid. Sidebar: someone should try to get him to write a slice-of-life show that accurately depicts life with autism.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 19 May 2016, 01:17
Speaking of accuracy, I'm going to have to give Jeph a thumbs up. I'm not the only autistic in my family (not sure of the specific diagnosis). My cousin's daughter learned sign language because she gets like that when she's upset, too.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 19 May 2016, 02:28
Yeah, sorry about that Eastrim. I was about two coffees short when I posted that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 19 May 2016, 02:54
I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.

In German, the umlaut doesn't reflect stress, but completely changes pronunciation.  Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A"), Ö is pronounced sort of like "er," and Ü... well... listen to the word "brüder" here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWyYn0E4Ys&t=14m29s).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 19 May 2016, 03:05
Why can't Brun just be Brun?  It's short for Brunhilde.  It happens that the name Brunhilde is also in different places spelt Brünnhilde or even Brynhildr (and further variants of these), but we have no reason to impose a version of her name different from that which she has stated.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 03:07
Indeed. And as mentioned above, anglified German names tend not to have umlauts, and tend not to be pronounced as if they had them. Like "Gunther" in Friends - had he been German, his name would have been "Günther", and it would have been pronounced differently.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 19 May 2016, 03:16
(as opposed to the every-other-language "A")

For some reason, this comment made me chuckle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 03:56
To be fair, certain Central Asian languages also pronounce "A" strangely.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 19 May 2016, 04:12
To be fair, certain Central Asian languages also pronounce "A" differently.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 04:25
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho?  :?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: heyjames4 on 19 May 2016, 05:46
1. Is this palindromic pooping a mutant strain of butts disease?
2. I don't know what Brun's deal is, but I like her and want to see more.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 19 May 2016, 05:50
It took me this long to realize "Brun" is an anagram of "Burn".  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 19 May 2016, 07:04
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.

It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.

I'm not sure how something that literally says "typical" is really less judgemental than "normal". What it does is medicalizes it, which helps some people be non-judgemental about things, but is it really good to be judgy about any difference you can't medicalize?

Calling something normal doesn't inherently entail a value judgement against things that are non-normal, and saying that it does feels like conceding the war to pretend you've won a battle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 19 May 2016, 07:07
Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A")

English has lots of "A"s. There are two kinds of languages: those with five vowels*, and those with five dozen vowels. Those with only five tend to have the same five (more or less) because they're relatively evenly distributed in "vowel space". I assume that you mean "as in hat" and "as in father" respectively.

*some languages may only have three vowels
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 19 May 2016, 07:19
Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A")

English has lots of "A"s. (There are two kinds of languages: those with five vowels*, and those with five dozen vowels). I assume that you mean "as in hat" and "as in father" respectively.

*some languages may only have three vowels

Five dozen vowels is a "bit" of an exaggeration. English, a language with a notoriously large number of vowel phonemes, has about a dozen vowels and six to eight diphtongs, depending on dialect. Granted, there are thousands of languages in the world, but I am not aware of that many that have significantly more vowels than English and from what I remember about phonetics, there aren't that many *possible* vowel phonemes, and few languages use most of them. French, for instance, has up to 17 vowels according to Wikipedia, and it's not like the language has simple vowel phonology. Apparently, based on a quick research, the most vowel monopthongs in a European language is up to 32 for Danish (and Wikipedia states the number to be at 20), and no other European language goes to even 20. I'm not sure how it works globally, but I know there are a large number of African and Asian languages with a rather small number of vowels.

...unless you were using a deliberate hyperbole, in which case I withdraw my objection.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 19 May 2016, 07:38
I am very tired, but I'll try to explain it anyways. An umlaut changes the way the vowel is pronounced and changes how much stress/emphasis you put on it. Vowels in German (as with many other languages) only have one sound unless paired with another vowel in a diphthong or given some sort of accent mark (like an umlaut or that backwards apostrophy) . In this case, "Brun" doesn't have a stressed inflection because there's no umlaut.

In German, the umlaut doesn't reflect stress, but completely changes pronunciation.  Ä is pronounced like the English "A" (as opposed to the every-other-language "A"), Ö is pronounced sort of like "er," and Ü... well... listen to the word "brüder" here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWyYn0E4Ys&t=14m29s).
Thank you for explaining it better. Like I said, I was very tired (still am, too).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 19 May 2016, 07:48
Regarding 'normal' and 'average' I'm actually a big fan of the usage of the words 'neurotypical' and 'neuroatypical'.

It sounds far more factual and far less judgemental than most alternatives.

I'm not sure how something that literally says "typical" is really less judgemental than "normal". What it does is medicalizes it, which helps some people be non-judgemental about things, but is it really good to be judgy about any difference you can't medicalize?

Calling something normal doesn't inherently entail a value judgement against things that are non-normal, and saying that it does feels like conceding the war to pretend you've won a battle.
"Normal is a statistical anomaly."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oc9tKkH7WE
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 08:33
Asking again: where is the cuckoo clock? There's no sign of it on her as she enters the room. Neither hand appears to be in a position to be holding it.

It took me this long to realize "Brun" is an anagram of "Burn".  :psyduck:
Feel the Brun!

Yeah, sorry about that Eastrim. I was about two coffees short when I posted that.
No worries.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Rincewind on 19 May 2016, 08:35
It took me this long to realize "Brun" is an anagram of "Burn".  :psyduck:

Maybe Brun is a Firestarter?   :facepalm:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 19 May 2016, 09:43
...unless you were using a deliberate hyperbole, in which case I withdraw my objection.

It was some hyperbole, but I also was counting diphthongs that are not mere composition of two adjacent vowel phonemes spelled normally (French "oi" is a big offender there) towards the number of vowels, and I also count different ways of spelling the same sound ('a' as in father and 'o' as in hot, for instance) as distinct vowels, compared to languages that don't have them but instead only have five phonemes each always spelled with the same letter.

Really, the best counterexample to my claim is German, which is somewhere in the middle with a reasonably coherent rational spelling system (as five-vowel languages), but has nontrivial diphthongs ("eu" and "ei" sounding more like "o-i" and "a-i") and three extra base vowels.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 19 May 2016, 09:57
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho?  :?
Is it really necessary to call another language strange?

I did it as a human not a mod.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 10:15
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho?  :?
Is it really necessary to call another language strange?
In context, it was a pun on American English and oddtails quote of Near Lurker about it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Skewbrow on 19 May 2016, 11:47
I somehow doubt the pun was directed at American English in particular. At least I read as a pun at English in general.

But I'm with TrillHo. The pun was an unnecessary one. There are contexts where it holds. If your language repertoire is close to mine (Finnish, English, Swedish, German), then English is the odd one out in many ways - the pronounciation of vowel combinations in particular. But, if your repertoire is, say English, French, Spanish, then my (past) complaints about the inability of English speakers to pronounce 'J' or 'Y' or umlauted vowels "my way" would ring hollow.

The explanation to the differences is probably (can't site a source, sorry) historical. Spanish and French have obvious common roots. Swedish OTOH is a Germanic language. Finnish is not, but largely copied the phoneme-to-letter(combination) mapping from German/Swedish. English, having a mixture of French, Germanic and Gaelic roots, is hit with traditions pulling in opposite directions. Also, standards of written English are old (very much so in comparison to my native Finnish), and therefore the language is lugging a ballast built up over the centuries. This (IMHO) is the main reason the US has an illiteracy problem. Your learners are battling this handicap.

Anyway, there are many languages and many conventions. The strangeness is in the ear of the listener.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 19 May 2016, 12:07
That's an awfully detailed speculation, do you already have sketches drawn up too to go along with it? Are you going to make that panel reality even if Jeph doesn't? Are you willing to go the distance?

(Okay yeah I need sleep..)

FWIW - That is what is referred to as "Head-can(n)on" in here, and I've seen more detailed canons, and ... much "looser cannons" than those BenRG generally puts on the upper deck. (What I was unhappy with, I've already said, and I've also said I generally enjoy Ben firing a "broadside", so YMMV)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1auhue2M1qbcwmwo1_500.png)

Personally, I've found it conducive to my mental health to try and regard the speculation in here as a form of "collective emergent performance art" ...  :wink:

This IS, after all, the WCDT - usually just one step removed from alt-canon (and-, if it were not for the moderation, slash-fic) - it's tempting to groan about other people's "mental mortar", while forgetting the "Howitzer weighing down on your own skull" ...

---
General ether:
That happily cited line about "projection" that Tova has in his sig - I remember when Westrim made that comment, but not the specific topic (probably a relationship arc with Marigold - they do tend to be ... "combustible").

On the other hand - This IS THE WCDT ...  :-\

It certainly IS good to remember the artillery everybody is wearing in here - but it's not a nifty catch-all putdown. For starters, IDENTIFICATION with a character is NOT psychological projection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection).
The first MIGHT veer into the "generalization fallacy" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization), the second is about psychological defence mechanism of the "You are always so rude"-type, thrown about by a very rude person - likely upon being called out.

The underlying (internal) conflict is that the "projector" is unable to acknowledge their (aggressive?) impulses, for whatever reason - maybe they were raised to not overtly aggress - and hence subconsciously pretends them to be the impulses of the person they are attacking - they 'project' the impulse from themselves onto the other in their internal narrative.

This is by no means simple - and it is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO OBJECTIVELY PROVE to be either PRESENT, or ABSENT. Which is probably the reason why the 'projection defence' is so widespread.

This also means that 'you're projecting' is pretty much what Oddtail said it is - At the very, very best, it can be a hint to a receptive person about a malcognition. More likely, it is an excellent "You shut up now, you!" - since it is impossible to conclusively refute.

As Oddtail pointed out, the discussion most likely is over after "you're projecting" - it's a derail, an impossible-to-refute red-herring, and an ad hominem fallacy (your argument is wrong because you are somebody who is  likely to projectidentify/generalize) all rolled into one. With the option to shoot off a "Don't be so sensitive ... you're always so sensitive ..." if the victim protests.

Pretty much "Check your privilege" without the social benefits (however slim or great they might be - we have threads-worth of discussion on that one, over in Discuss)

(EDIT BELOW HERE: Spelling, clarity)
As a rational argument, it pretty much useless outside a counselling session - If one wants to refute a claim based on insufficient data, why not say "Excuse me, but this strikes me as an example of the Generalization Fallacy?" In order to discuss whether a fallacious generalization was made, there's no need to attack the other's identity, or identification - no need to even touch upon it - so why do that?
And, let's be honest here: The latter (attacking the other's identity, or identification) is at the very best, at grave risk of being an asshole move. At worst, it's an intentional asshat-move aimed at someone who has far more at stake than you do.
Not cool, IMO.

---
@Tova: Thanks for your thoughtful reply -> I'll have more on that, but the (other) points you make more than deserve a response in a separate post.
@RoXtar: Thanks for the clarification!

WRT the shortening of names, one could consider me unfortunate. "Seb" is really the only way to shorten Sebastian, so I definitely don't have any options!
"Basti" is pretty common in Germany.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 19 May 2016, 12:09
I somehow doubt the pun was directed at American English in particular. At least I read as a pun at English in general.

But I'm with TrillHo. The pun was an unnecessary one. There are contexts where it holds. If your language repertoire is close to mine (Finnish, English, Swedish, German), then English is the odd one out in many ways - the pronounciation of vowel combinations in particular. But, if your repertoire is, say English, French, Spanish, then my (past) complaints about the inability of English speakers to pronounce 'J' or 'Y' or umlauted vowels "my way" would ring hollow.

The explanation to the differences is probably (can't site a source, sorry) historical. Spanish and French have obvious common roots. Swedish OTOH is a Germanic language. Finnish is not, but largely copied the phoneme-to-letter(combination) mapping from German/Swedish. English, having a mixture of French, Germanic and Gaelic roots, is hit with traditions pulling in opposite directions. Also, standards of written English are old (very much so in comparison to my native Finnish), and therefore the language is lugging a ballast built up over the centuries. This (IMHO) is the main reason the US has an illiteracy problem. Your learners are battling this handicap.

Anyway, there are many languages and many conventions. The strangeness is in the ear of the listener.

You're right, it was English in general. The point still stands that the joke was that English 'A's aren't outliers - here are some completely unrelated languages that are just as 'strange'! Puns don't have necessity- that is completely aside from the point of a pun.


General ether:
That happily cited line about "projection" that Tova has in his sig - I remember when Westrim made that comment, but not the specific topic (probably a relationship arc with Marigold - they do tend to be ... "combustible").

As Oddtail pointed out, the discussion most likely is over after "you're projecting" - it's a derail, an impossible-to-refute red-herring, and an ad hominem fallacy (you are wrong because you are somebody who is  likely to projectidentify/generalize) all rolled into one. With the option to shoot off a "Don't be so sensitive ... you're always so sensitive ..." if the victim protests.
I do too. Still have it bookmarked; it's from here. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28936.msg1155313.html#msg1155313) It's from when Angus was considering the New York job and lots of people were projecting their relationship difficulties or future planning on to the situation.

Projection is one of the words that has shifted in meaning, something else discussed in this thread. Yes, it used to refer only to people who were recognizing aggression in others but not in themselves. It's morphed over time; as used here (and in that years ago quote) it is taking ones own recognized traits and seizing on commonalities with the recognized traits of others without considering differences, alternatives, or insufficient information. In that sense, noting projection is a call for objective analysis and consideration of alternatives.

It's like seeing a woman who is depressed and with an infant in public and going "OMG, I had post partum depression too! Don't worry honey, you'll get through it!" Perhaps that's true (certainly it's butting in to someone's private business). Perhaps she looks at you in confusion, "this is my niece. My boyfriend just broke up with me and my sister is on a date night with her husband."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 May 2016, 13:10
Welcome, new people!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 19 May 2016, 13:19
@Eastrim: I still think a "you're projecting" is not very useful in a discussion. Even if it's true, it doesn't necessarily invalidate the arguments made. And there *were* arguments made for Brun being autistic other than "she behaves just like me".

@Random832: counting the same vowel sound spelt differently as more than one vowel is somewhat problematic. The word "vowel" is ambiguous - it either refers to particular sounds (to oversimplify: sounds that are included in each syllable and make it a syllable), or to letters that conventionally represent vowel sounds (a,e,i,o,u, and optionally y, plus the variants of those with diacritics). Combining the two is a category error. I was taught in college that generally, when talking about sounds in languages, especially in the context of phonetics/phonology, spelling is completely irrelevant and should be ignored (because spelling is an artificial constraint/convention that does not necessarily reflect the structure of the natural spoken language - English being an excellent example actually - while phonetics and phonology can be analysed in a somewhat objective and scientific manner).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mad Cat on 19 May 2016, 13:32
Okay, so does Brun have stress-induced mutism, or is she full-on Autism Spectrum?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 19 May 2016, 14:20
Okay, so does Brun have stress-induced mutism, or is she full-on Autism Spectrum?

We won't know until Jeph shows us, because there isn't enough evidence so far to make a clear-cut decision (which has already been over-much discussed).  So let's just wait and see.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: retrosteve on 19 May 2016, 14:32
The autistic trait does seem to get a bit of ground now. I can't say I know a lot about this stuff but I have an alternative reason. Don't take offense, I'm just shooting out an idea:
She could also be extremely traumatized from a previous event ...

Like, say, a childhood vaccination?  (Noooooooooo!) 

I'm going to hell now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 19 May 2016, 14:47
Yes, yes you are.


At least she's in a decently safe place and Clinton has shown there is a lot more to him than usually meets the eye once again.

I wonder, if she doesn't actually own the Bar, who does and is that person related to her.




*Sudden thought*

Plot Twist - The Bar belongs to Hannermom and is a 'Tax Write-off'.  Brun is actually a 'secret' cousin/sister/relative of Hanners.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 15:33
Was that... Really necessary, Thrillho?  :?
Is it really necessary to call another language strange?

I did it as a human not a mod.

I just would like to mention that it took me at least three or four reads to finally realise that you'd edited what you quoted, here (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33364.msg1355179.html#msg1355179). And was only after you'd added the comment above. May I respectfully suggest that it would better have been placed in the first post?

Also, mod tags notwithstanding, criticisms such as these* from mods carry more ... significance... than the same from anyone else.

Between some people getting insulted by strange, and others by normal, I feel as though the conversation in thread may never end.

BTW Thank you, Case and Eastrim, for reminding me of the correct meaning of the word 'projection.' It's something I shall keep in mind.

* Edit: to clarify, by "such as these", I mean by editing a quote. It's a "moderator"-like action.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 19 May 2016, 15:43
The othering and exoticising of other races is a recurring issue discussed in depth in another thread, frequently. I was simply trying to sidestep one small micro part of that.

It was a suggestion, not an order. I only do mod things when using mod voice. Not sure if that applies to anyone else. Might put it in my signature.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 15:55
It wasn't the criticism that I was commenting on, it was the way it was carried out. Quoting someone, modifying the quote, and failing to highlight the fact is disrespectful, in my opinion. I've done it once in the past, and was rightly called out for it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 19 May 2016, 15:57
True, I could have drawn attention to it. I underestimated how fast the thread would move. Apologies for not doing so.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 19 May 2016, 15:58
People are worried about the clock. 

It's in the hotel safe. 

What I'm wondering is, what happened to the skirt she was wearing (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210)? 

At least, I thought it was a skirt.  There's nothing between that comic and this to tell any differently. 


Another interesting note: If you go through from her first appearance to now, those eyebrows have gotten progressively thicker on a per-comic basis. 

It's really quite impressive! 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 19 May 2016, 16:18
They'll be thin again next time she shows up. Turns out they're proportional to her need to poop.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 19 May 2016, 16:27
w/r/t language, yes English has more vowels than most, but I think that its complicated consonant clusters are its real challenge.

I mean, what other language has words (indeed, single syllables!) like "twelfths"?  The vowel isn't the problem there for second-language speakers. The unvoiced 'th' is odd enough by itself, but you can get used to it; it's not all that peculiar.  Sandwiching it between an 'L', 'F' and 'S' - that's bizarre. 

The fact that its spelling and pronunciation are only casual acquaintances is a difficulty, but mostly a product of the fact that it's among the first languages where the ideas of standardized spelling and widespread literacy caught on, and the pronunciation of words has since drifted away from  fixed spellings that actually made sense at the time.  That 'gh' in night for example is left over from a voiced guttural (descended from German unvoiced 'ch' ) that isn't part of the language any more. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 19 May 2016, 16:31
Long consonant clusters? Russian says "Здравствуйте" ("Zdravstvuyte").
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 19 May 2016, 16:49
Long consonant clusters? Russian says "Здравствуйте" ("Zdravstvuyte").


Mein Herz tanzt ...
(The most beautiful consonant cluster case can re-collect)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 19 May 2016, 17:30
FWIW - That is what is referred to as "Head-can(n)on" in here, and I've seen more detailed canons, and ... much "looser cannons" than those BenRG generally puts on the upper deck. (What I was unhappy with, I've already said, and I've also said I generally enjoy Ben firing a "broadside", so YMMV)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1auhue2M1qbcwmwo1_500.png)

Personally, I've found it conducive to my mental health to try and regard the speculation in here as a form of "collective emergent performance art" ...  :wink:

This IS, after all, the WCDT - usually just one step removed from alt-canon (and-, if it were not for the moderation, slash-fic) - it's tempting to groan about other people's "mental mortar", while forgetting the "Howitzer weighing down on your own skull" ...

O I know I was just messin' around.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 17:50
Hey Case, I wasn't sure whether there was meant to be a link in your spoiler?
Also, I invite you to say just what you are thinking. Snark away.  :angel:

Edit: in response to your comment... the word deaf is a perfectly good one. Is there a better term for attention deficit disorder?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: heyjames4 on 19 May 2016, 18:01
I love love love the head canon cannon image. Where's it from?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 19 May 2016, 18:18
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'.  Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.

My headcanøn anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 19 May 2016, 18:54
People are worried about the clock. 

It's in the hotel safe. 

What I'm wondering is, what happened to the skirt she was wearing (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210)? 

At least, I thought it was a skirt.  There's nothing between that comic and this to tell any differently. 


Actually, there is!
If you stare at her crotch here, (Uh... Um... I got nothin',) you can see what looks like a crease where you'd have a zipper or button or whatever:
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3215
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 20:20
For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 19 May 2016, 20:34
People are worried about the clock. 

It's in the hotel safe. 

What I'm wondering is, what happened to the skirt she was wearing (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3210)? 

At least, I thought it was a skirt.  There's nothing between that comic and this to tell any differently. 


Actually, there is!
If you stare at her crotch here, (Uh... Um... I got nothin',) you can see what looks like a crease where you'd have a zipper or button or whatever:
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3215

Excellent catch! 

I still think that the crease from behind in the first panel I referenced looks more like what would happen with a snug skirt than with jeans, but yeah, you got it. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 19 May 2016, 21:47
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'.  Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.

My headcanøn anyway.

Interesting theory, but she wrote her name down as 'Brun' in the last comic.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 19 May 2016, 22:20
Actually, there is!
If you stare at her crotch here, (Uh... Um... I got nothin',)

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, by his own admission he was quotes as eyeing Ms. Brunhilde before the day of the crime.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 22:39
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'.  Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.

My headcanøn anyway.

Maybe, but Brün and Broon are pretty distant sounds. Wouldn't Clinton have pronounced it "Brin"or something in that case?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 May 2016, 23:12
Speaking of sequences of consonants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C4%8D_prst_skrz_krk).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Detachable Felix on 19 May 2016, 23:24
No comic yet :( Anyone who donates to Jeph's Patreon, has he uploaded there?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 23:29
Nothing on Patreon, no.

Edit: But then again, when he runs late, Jeph rarely uploads to Patreon before going public.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lubricus on 19 May 2016, 23:36
And now: Comic!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Detachable Felix on 19 May 2016, 23:37
Oh jeez, his mum's face.  :emotrex:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 19 May 2016, 23:37
Well that's a fine how do you do, but Ms. Augustus deserves some action. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 19 May 2016, 23:41
You coulda got some too Clinton.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 19 May 2016, 23:50
This is so great. Ending the week on a classy note. Hilarious.  :lol:

Didn´t we see this Chad guy before? I think so but I can´t put my finger on it. Any leads?

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 19 May 2016, 23:50
OK, that's gonna be something he's not going to mention again EVER!!

I wonder if he has Brain Bleach back at his Dorm
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 19 May 2016, 23:55
Found him. It´s the guy from the computer store:

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3132

Or maybe not? He looks a bit different. Hmm...

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 19 May 2016, 23:57
We still don't know for sure if Brun's troubles originated with a childhood trauma. What we do know is that Clinton has just suffered a serious trauma! Mrs A may take a lover if she wishes but I bet Clinton would have preferred if he hadn't been a man his own age that he knows from college!

I think that Clinton is deep in 'hiding in a corner, rocking back and forth whilst sucking your thumb' territory here! :laugh: Poor Chad probably has no clue! I wonder if Mrs A will come clean or if she'll... er... 'distract' him? :wink:

Of course, I'm assuming that he doesn't know. If I'm wrong, then Clinton may have worse to come. Will he need to call him 'Dad' eventually? :-o
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 20 May 2016, 00:02
Speaking of sequences of consonants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C4%8D_prst_skrz_krk).

Ummmmmh ... We come in peace? Gesundheit?  :oops:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Persephiroth on 20 May 2016, 00:08
Dude is too ripped to be the guy from the computer store.

...go Clinton's mom.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 20 May 2016, 00:08
(click to show/hide)
O good I wasn't the only one to notice.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 20 May 2016, 00:11
"Back in my day, a college widow stood for something!  In fact, she stood for plenty!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 20 May 2016, 00:11
Dude is too ripped to be the guy from the computer store.

...go Clinton's mom.

They're both named Chad...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: wlewisiii on 20 May 2016, 00:31
Poor Clinton. Still the butt monkey. That's as good as running into my stepmother's copy of "Sex for Dummies"... O_o
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Dust on 20 May 2016, 00:32
I think the fire's odds-on favourite to be the high point of Clinton's day.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: neurocase on 20 May 2016, 00:50
This is why you call ahead, Clinton. Damn.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: iwdy on 20 May 2016, 01:12
I get it, but what's so traumatizing about that anyway?

I have a feeling that this would be more hilarious if he was butt naked.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 20 May 2016, 01:28
Yeah, what iwdy said.

OK, I guess it's only semi-related to the comic, but I'll ask.

This might be my general weirdness, but I am always utterly baffled by the reaction, which seems to happen both in fiction and as a reaction of fans of fiction. The idea that seeing/thinking/talking about parents having sex is extremely uncomfortable. The phrase "brain bleach" is used more often than not.

I mean, I understand the part that we are wired not to be attracted to our parents. Therefore, the idea of a parent having sex is not, well, sexy to us ourselves. But at the same time, I don't understand why I would be particularly weirded out by the fact that my parents have had sex. I'm kinda a key piece of evidence that it had to have happened at some point =P no, I do not think about it actively and the thought would probably be somewhat awkward, and granted, I've never walked in on my parents having sex or anything. But I don't think I would be particularly traumatized by this. Probably not as a child and certainly not as a teenager/adult.

In this case, it's not even the reaction Clinton is having. His response makes perfect sense to me. But the ubiquity of "eww eww eww parents HAVING SEX" is utterly incomprehensible to me.

I mean, isn't it kind of narrow-minded to be weirded out by something just because it is not appealing to us on a personal level? The "parents having sex" reaction, despite it clearly being a different reason, kinda reminds me of people who seem to be homophobic mainly because they don't personally enjoy the thought of same-sex couples doin' it*. With, in some cases, a measure of ageism thrown in, due to one's parents' relative age?

Again, personal sexy thoughts and aesthetic appeal aside, I'm not sure why parents/family being sexually active would be a reason to freak out to any large extent. Is it because people don't think of their own parents (or other close family) as persons with a sex drive? Is it because we're supposed to react this way for some reason?

Help me out here, people.


* So I find the phrase "doin' it" amusing. So sue me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 20 May 2016, 01:38
It isn't 'parent having sex' that's the problem. It's 'Mom having sex with a guy my age who I know personally' that seems to be the real problem. He'll never be able to talk to Chad in CompSci... or even look at him... ever again without this traitorous part of his hind-brain making him imagine him and his mother doing... things. It's not a recipe for ease of mind.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 20 May 2016, 01:39
I didn't see that coming.
The issue for Clinton isn't that his mom is sexually active - it's that her paramour is younger than he is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 20 May 2016, 01:44
It isn't 'parent having sex' that's the problem. It's 'Mom having sex with a guy my age who I know personally' that seems to be the real problem. He'll never be able to talk to Chad in CompSci... or even look at him... ever again without this traitorous part of his hind-brain making him imagine him and his mother doing... things. It's not a recipe for ease of mind.

Yeah, in this case I get it, that's why I said it was only semi-related to the comic. I did mention that Clinton's reaction was pretty much normal.

The trope of "parents are having sex, child is weirded out/panics/has a BSOD" seems to be extremely common, though, and that's what I was referring to.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 20 May 2016, 01:45
There are things Man was not meant to know.

They include who their parents booty calls are, or that your age group is within their, shall we say, target demographic.

This guy reminds me of Captain Awesome, what with the gregariousness, manliness, and body comfort.

For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.
Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:

The othering and exoticising of other races is a recurring issue discussed in depth in another thread, frequently. I was simply trying to sidestep one small micro part of that.
I figured that was your assumption, which is why I endeavored to point out that in context what was being called strange (jokingly) was English, not Central Asian languages.

People are worried about the clock. 
It's in the hotel safe. 
I shall continue to nitpick, because there's no indication that they pass a safe in that entrance scene where she also doesn't have the clock.

The issue for Clinton isn't that his mom is sexually active - it's that her paramour is younger than he is.
Well, there's no indication of that being the case. They're clearly peers, but younger people tutor slightly older peers all the time in college, depending on what order they took their classes in.


Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 20 May 2016, 01:54
Oh, and since I forgot to mention - I can't put my finger on exactly why, but Chad seems like such a chill dude, I think he's my favourite side character in the entire comic now =D I hope we get to see more of him.

Not in that way.

Although...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 20 May 2016, 02:39
For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.
Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up.  :claireface: :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 20 May 2016, 02:46
Remember, folks, this is finding this out on the same day he got rejected himself.

Damn.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Scarblac on 20 May 2016, 03:38
Remember, folks, this is finding this out on the same day he got rejected himself.

Also the bar he was in burned down, and he helped a very distraught Brun find a place for the night. I think that would be slightly more in the front of his mind.

Same reason I also don't get why people think Brun had some sort of childhood trauma or autism that caused her reaction -- she suffered huge trauma today, her house burned down. That by itself would be enough to cause this sort of reaction for many people. It was probably her bar too, since no sort of boss or owner figure showed up to assist.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 20 May 2016, 03:54
Found him. It´s the guy from the computer store:

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3132

Or maybe not? He looks a bit different. Hmm...

TM

This is definitely not the same Chad as the one at the computer store. Besides the obvious physical differences, the store clerk was "Fucking Chad, man" and this one is "Chad the fucking man."

 :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2016, 03:58
Some sort of reaction, certainly, but her reaction in particular was unusual enough to spark speculation.

Sparking speculation, silly sometimes, satisfies some.

An amazingly acute Australian always answers alliteration ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Wildroses on 20 May 2016, 04:29
And Clinton's day ends as it began. With terrible embarrassment.

I think I love Chad. He was so utterly delighted and unashamed to see Clinton. I really got the impression he would have been happy if Clinton had come inside for a cup of coffee and nice chat. Thoughts of "Darn, a third wheel on my romantic evening" obviously never crossed his mind.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 20 May 2016, 04:35
Extravagently envisioned exposition eventually elicits elucidating exchanges.
But bloody brilliant banter's better.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 20 May 2016, 04:41
For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.
Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up.  :claireface: :claireface:
Nah, I want to drive you cuckoo. If you already are, then that's great; you'll be grandfathered in! :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:

Some sort of reaction, certainly, but her reaction in particular was unusual enough to spark speculation.
Except that, as some people noted, her reaction wasn't actually unusual at all. The situation is what's unusual - she doesn't have to be autistic or had past trauma for her reaction to be a perfectly reasonable reaction to this trauma. People's responses in high stress situations run the gamut, and hers is fairly well known.

It was probably her bar too, since no sort of boss or owner figure showed up to assist.
I'm confused that this is still under 'probable,' and at all the dubiousness it was treated with when it was first proposed. It was already reasonably likely; small bars don't exactly have a lot of employees, but when Kugai proposed it the possibility was treated as revelation. Once we learned a day later that she lived above it, it was confirmed; employees don't live above businesses (barring rare, old, or large company occasions), owners do. As soon as we learned she lived above the bar, there was virtually no chance she didn't own it. Did people find it unlikely that a woman would own a bar?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Emoroffle on 20 May 2016, 05:17
Looks like mom got game and Clinton will have repressed memories. I'm all for the "You go girl!" moment on this but I do have to question her taste in men. Whatever floats her boat I suppose.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 May 2016, 05:23
Why? He seems nice.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: CaptainMal on 20 May 2016, 05:24
For all those concerned about the clock: don't be alarmed.
Why, does the discussion tick you off? :claireface:
Well, for a second there I thought that people were just trying to wind me up.  :claireface: :claireface:
Nah, I want to drive you cuckoo. If you already are, then that's great; you'll be grandfathered in! :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:
It's time we found out about the clock :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: DSL on 20 May 2016, 05:39
The clock is just a complication.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: bhtooefr on 20 May 2016, 06:01
I want to escapement from this forum now. :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 20 May 2016, 06:03
An amazingly acute Australian always answers alliteration ...

My usual sig, for the longest time, has been:

Amateur author, avid Australian alliteration aficionado.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ankhtahr on 20 May 2016, 06:19
So she really does have someone to take care of this for her (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3069)  :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 20 May 2016, 06:22
Speaking of the numbers of vowels in languages: Ubykh has two vowels, and so does Mandarin in some analyses of its phonology. But I really don't want to get deep into this, unless someone wants me to go into phonological analysis and diachronical reconstruction. IIRC Swedish has the most among European languages.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: DrBear on 20 May 2016, 06:24
From the poll:
We cut back to Marten and Claire Claire's Mom and Brad; Clinton's call for help interrupts a... moment.

He seems like a nice boy.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 20 May 2016, 06:31
Looks like mom got game and Clinton will have repressed memories. I'm all for the "You go girl!" moment on this but I do have to question her taste in men. Whatever floats her boat I suppose.

All we know about Chad is that he's a big ol' hunk of beefcake, that he's friendly, and that he needed tutoring from Clinton. Well, and that he likes older women. Not really enough data to form an opinion on him yet.

Anyway I doubt Mom Augustus intends this as a long-term relationship. Even if he is totally shallow, so what? They'll have a night of mind-blowing sex, and tomorrow morning she'll make him pancakes and then kick him out the front door.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lanika )O( on 20 May 2016, 06:31
why not push to the limits?
Well okay, if we can do it that way...

Brunhilda is a Valkyrie, come to Earth to serve beer and ale between carting off warriors to Valhalla. Since she's been around for a long time and seen a lot of stuff, good and bad, she just doesn't react to it much anymore. But what will she do when she finds... love? For while she has experienced all that humans have to offer, between the bar and her duties transporting dead people, she's mostly missed the AI revolution. When she meets Pintsize, it's love at first sight, for he has archived things she has never even dreamed of, and for the first time in a very long time, she feels alive again. Will she at last find her true love just as Ragnarok begins?

I think I love your brain.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Emoroffle on 20 May 2016, 06:44
Looks like mom got game and Clinton will have repressed memories. I'm all for the "You go girl!" moment on this but I do have to question her taste in men. Whatever floats her boat I suppose.

All we know about Chad is that he's a big ol' hunk of beefcake, that he's friendly, and that he needed tutoring from Clinton. Well, and that he likes older women. Not really enough data to form an opinion on him yet.

Anyway I doubt Mom Augustus intends this as a long-term relationship. Even if he is totally shallow, so what? They'll have a night of mind-blowing sex, and tomorrow morning she'll make him pancakes and then kick him out the front door.
Oh nothing about him personally, just that awful haircut and boxer-briefs combo.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lanika )O( on 20 May 2016, 07:08
Depression is similar in that regard in that when it becomes overwhelming, just dealing with ordinary everyday things gets to be too difficult, if not impossible. It manifests differently, obviously, but I get it. I have depression linked with psychosis and when my depression gets really bad, functioning at all is a serious challenge.

Me too (depression without psychosis but with severe anxiety and panic attacks here). It's terrible that when I'm stressed I ask my family for time to calm down and recollect my feelings because my mind goes reeling and I stop thinking and just react they just keep going on and on.

Everything overwhelms me, the ambient light, the ambient noises, the interaction, the loud voice, the pressure... I just want to curl in a ball and disappear. Eventually I will have a meltdown and lash out before just crumbling to  desperate tears, feeling terribly exposed.

Some days I'm so overwhelmed that I can't function at all. I would probably be externally calm in a house fire too, and scream my lungs off when finally alone in a bathroom or hotel room.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Lanika )O( on 20 May 2016, 07:37
Yeah, what iwdy said.

OK, I guess it's only semi-related to the comic, but I'll ask.

This might be my general weirdness, but I am always utterly baffled by the reaction, which seems to happen both in fiction and as a reaction of fans of fiction. The idea that seeing/thinking/talking about parents having sex is extremely uncomfortable. The phrase "brain bleach" is used more often than not.

I mean, I understand the part that we are wired not to be attracted to our parents. Therefore, the idea of a parent having sex is not, well, sexy to us ourselves. But at the same time, I don't understand why I would be particularly weirded out by the fact that my parents have had sex. I'm kinda a key piece of evidence that it had to have happened at some point =P no, I do not think about it actively and the thought would probably be somewhat awkward, and granted, I've never walked in on my parents having sex or anything. But I don't think I would be particularly traumatized by this. Probably not as a child and certainly not as a teenager/adult.

In this case, it's not even the reaction Clinton is having. His response makes perfect sense to me. But the ubiquity of "eww eww eww parents HAVING SEX" is utterly incomprehensible to me.

I mean, isn't it kind of narrow-minded to be weirded out by something just because it is not appealing to us on a personal level? The "parents having sex" reaction, despite it clearly being a different reason, kinda reminds me of people who seem to be homophobic mainly because they don't personally enjoy the thought of same-sex couples doin' it*. With, in some cases, a measure of ageism thrown in, due to one's parents' relative age?

Again, personal sexy thoughts and aesthetic appeal aside, I'm not sure why parents/family being sexually active would be a reason to freak out to any large extent. Is it because people don't think of their own parents (or other close family) as persons with a sex drive? Is it because we're supposed to react this way for some reason?

Help me out here, people.


* So I find the phrase "doin' it" amusing. So sue me.

It's cultural and crops both geographically and timewise.

North Americans seem to be fixated on the idea that sex is disgusting, old people are disgusting, mothers are sacred untouchable pure beings and mothers having sex is dirty because it takes them from the position of "mommy" to the position of woman. In countries where sex isn't so associated with religion the "ew" factor is lessened. The general attitude is "eh, whatever, they're married, of course they fuck" when you walk on your parents having sex. The talk is usually about privacy and respect (knock before you enter, what we do in our room is none of the outside world business etc).

There's also a psychological component at work here: little boys idolize their mothers. They are pure and perfect and unblemished and smart and beautiful. It's the oedipal complex. They must deal with the father figure that shows the other side of the mother, that of the girlfriend and the lover, the woman. Normally when a guy reaches puberty he takes these ideal images and projects on his first loves, and learns to adjust the idealization and become a good boyfriend/lover. In romantic and byronic times you have the loved woman as untouched and to have sex with her as corrupting and violating this perfection.

Again, this is rarer where sex is less taboo. I particularly think that the American attitude of "eeeeeeew sex" feels like a teenager stuff that people that already have an adult life should have surpassed long ago. Seems very manchild to me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: brasca on 20 May 2016, 08:19
Remember, folks, this is finding this out on the same day he got rejected himself.

Damn.

Exactly.  And I totally sympathize with Clinton's earlier outburst with Claire.  I don't begrudge the people who have someone in their lives when I don't, but I get really irritated when they prod me about doing something about it. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 20 May 2016, 09:12
I love love love the head canon cannon image. Where's it from?

Hey, person-I-assume-to-be-a-new-forumite!

You can easily get the URL of any pic you encounter-here-and-just-must-have! by opening the post in the "quote"-environment (leftmost of the 3 buttons on the right upper rim of the post-window), which gives you smth. like:

[*quote author=Zastie link=topic=33364.msg1355158#msg1355158 date=1463640093]
blablabla ...
[*img width=200]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1auhue2M1qbcwmwo1_500.png[/img]
blablabla ...
[*quote]

Voila - there's the URL of your headcan(n)on ...

If you in turn want to have a pic in your posts, you can copy/paste that line in the middle (remove the "*"'s), paste in the URL of your pic, and adjust the width.

I took the headcannon image from a google-image-search for "Headcannon", like so (https://www.google.de/search?q=Headcannon,+headcanon&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVpIG9henMAhXL1xQKHWXhA5IQ_AUIBygB&biw=1486&bih=807#tbm=isch&q=Headcannon) ...

There's also a nice strip (https://xkcd.com/1401/) by Randall "xkcd" Munroe
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/new.png)

Cheers!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 20 May 2016, 09:14
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'.  Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.

My headcanøn anyway.

Maybe, but Brün and Broon are pretty distant sounds. Wouldn't Clinton have pronounced it "Brin"or something in that case?

I think Perfectly Reasonable is assuming that "Brun" = "u as in cut" and "Brün" = "u as in flute", rather than referring to the proper German ü sound.

(Wouldn't it be so much easier if we all used IPA? /ʌ/, /u:/, and /y:/ respectively. Probably the "Broon" was intended to mean he pronounced /u:/, but the proper German vowel was /ʊ/... or, since the symbols only have so much precision, an English /u:/ isn't precisely the same as a German /u:/, it could have been a hair too long or with a close glide at the end [sometimes written /ʊw/] or something)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 20 May 2016, 09:27
I love love love the head canon cannon image. Where's it from?

headcannon/canon stiff I clipped


I always liked DSL's pic for that.  I'm pretty sure it's his own work. 

(https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=8854;type=avatar)

Actually, it's snot the one I thought it was.  He had another I liked better. 

Oh, well...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 20 May 2016, 10:27
Jeph may spell it 'Brun', but what Brünnhilde is saying is 'Brün'.  Clinton would have no trouble with 'Brun'.
Instead he tries to make it 'Broon'.

My headcanøn anyway.

Maybe, but Brün and Broon are pretty distant sounds. Wouldn't Clinton have pronounced it "Brin"or something in that case?

I think Perfectly Reasonable is assuming that "Brun" = "u as in cut" and "Brün" = "u as in flute", rather than referring to the proper German ü sound.

(Wouldn't it be so much easier if we all used IPA? /ʌ/, /u:/, and /y:/ respectively. Probably the "Broon" was intended to mean he pronounced /u:/, but the proper German vowel was /ʊ/... or, since the symbols only have so much precision, an English /u:/ isn't precisely the same as a German /u:/, it could have been a hair too long or with a close glide at the end [sometimes written /ʊw/] or something)

Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.

That's my heäd cånön and I'm sticking to it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 20 May 2016, 10:35
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.
Keep in mind that he has a band named Deathmøle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 20 May 2016, 10:38
Perfectly Reasonable, your recent use of unneccessary accent marks is perfectly unreasonable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Nepiophage on 20 May 2016, 10:58
Speaking of the numbers of vowels in languages: Ubykh has two vowels, and so does Mandarin in some analyses of its phonology. But I really don't want to get deep into this, unless someone wants me to go into phonological analysis and diachronical reconstruction. IIRC Swedish has the most among European languages.
Afrikaaner English has one: i. Go to SA and an Afrikaaner may well say "wilcime ti Sith Ifriki!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 20 May 2016, 11:12
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 20 May 2016, 11:22
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.

You could start with "ze Eichhörnchen - Test" - (10 Canadians pronouncing "Eichhörnchen" ('squirrel')).  The first one is my favorite, since she nails the 'ö' at first 2nd try, but the way she pronounces the word, she's actually saying "Gauge-chicken" (Does the word 'Eich-Hähnchen' exist in German? Well, now it does!)

EDIT:
The unrivalled winner is woman-in-stripes @ 1:23 - She's almost perfect, just a bit more confidence and stressing the first syllable instead of the 2nd - then she'd sound like a native.
The last is guy-with-glasses @ 2:39 - What he says sounds pretty much like: "I-squirrel-shit" ("OmG! Are you alright? Should we get you an ambulance?")



The vid is the "German Revenge" for Canadians forcing 10 Germans to pronounce "squirrel" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejuK8_12Fmg) - which is pretty hard for Krauts who haven't yet shaken their instinctive tendency to indicate syllabification with glottal stops.
The Germans, being too honest for their own good, haven't yet figured out that nobody actually bothers pronouncing 'squirrel' - people simply toss smth. like "skwer-rll!" out of their mouths, and crank the confidence to 11 ...  :-D


...
Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.

That's my heäd cånön and I'm sticking to it.

Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'

(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BlueFatima on 20 May 2016, 11:37
Hmmm... I know this will come off as over-sensitive and ranty, but I can't keep my mouth shut (figuratively speaking). I find it cringe-worthy when people play armchair psychiatrist and label others (even fictional characters) as has been happening with Brun. There are a million and one reasons someone may talk in short sentences from being high-spectrum autistic, to being shy, to being a naturally quiet person, or simply antisocial/having to poop/PMSy/dog died—and plenty beyond that. I'd like to see where it goes or even *if* we find out why she is like this (I think she is plenty cool without a big backstory explaining her speech patterns).

On a different note, I really love how Jeph makes his characters with quirks that are just part of who they are beyond being something to poke fun at (though there's lots of humor around them, too). I've been enjoying the juxtaposition of Clinton's and Brun's very different personalities.

Betting Clinton ends up at Claire's place (I forgot—is she living with Marten and Faye now?). Good thing he made up with her. :)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 20 May 2016, 11:42
(I forgot—is she living with Marten and Faye now?).

We've not been told that she is, but recently we seen her there several times (but then, we saw Dora there for ages before she moved in - which arguably marked the start of that relationship going downhill).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 20 May 2016, 12:03
Case, I thank you, but I'm about 97% sure I'll never actually do that. I appreciate German culture, I definitely appreciate the people, but I know from past history that I can't learn from internet sources, video or otherwise. I took a semester of online German. I learned to count to three, and that's it.

If I ever decide to learn German, which I might, it'll be with a tutor. I need that personal connection. True of languages, true of most things in my life.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Persephiroth on 20 May 2016, 12:43
Quote from: Penquin47 link=topic=33364.msg1355263#msg1355263

They're both named Chad...

Huh, you're right. That is a pretty big difference in appearance, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 20 May 2016, 13:12
There does not need to be any umlaut in Brun's name to explain Clinton's mispronunciation of "Broon". When pronounced with the German u, "Brun" is fairly close to English's "Broon". The difference is that the vowel sound "oo" in Broon is a little too long. Instead of the  "oo" sound from, say, "broom" or "boot", it should actually be the "oo" sound from "book" or "took".

Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'

(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)

The German plural of "umlaut" is "umlaute", yes, but the English plural of "umlaut" is "umlauts". Since PR was writing in English at the time, their use of "umlauts" is correct.

Edit: Yeah, people trying to import foreign plurals into English is a pet peeve of mine. Come on, folks, English has enough crazy inconsistencies already; can we at least try not to introduce any more?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 20 May 2016, 14:21
Use enough and you'll have umlots of them. There's a reason you don't see too many of them together in a single word or sentence; they get quite rowdy in groups and turn into umlouts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 20 May 2016, 14:35
w/r/t language, yes English has more vowels than most, but I think that its complicated consonant clusters are its real challenge.

I mean, what other language has words (indeed, single syllables!) like "twelfths"?  The vowel isn't the problem there for second-language speakers. The unvoiced 'th' is odd enough by itself, but you can get used to it; it's not all that peculiar.  Sandwiching it between an 'L', 'F' and 'S' - that's bizarre. 

The fact that its spelling and pronunciation are only casual acquaintances is a difficulty, but mostly a product of the fact that it's among the first languages where the ideas of standardized spelling and widespread literacy caught on, and the pronunciation of words has since drifted away from  fixed spellings that actually made sense at the time.  That 'gh' in night for example is left over from a voiced guttural (descended from German unvoiced 'ch' ) that isn't part of the language any more.
Greek does. For example "phthalate".

EDIT: Then  there's Welsh, Polish, and any of the Czech languages (seems Czech has already been pointed out).

As for the silent 'th' in "twelfths", that depends on the dialect and how "lazy" the speaker is when the talk. http://gastrophobia.tumblr.com/post/141939665409/mania-doesnt-have-an-interesting-accent-she-just
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 20 May 2016, 15:09
There does not need to be any umlaut in Brun's name to explain Clinton's mispronunciation of "Broon". When pronounced with the German u, "Brun" is fairly close to English's "Broon". The difference is that the vowel sound "oo" in Broon is a little too long. Instead of the  "oo" sound from, say, "broom" or "boot", it should actually be the "oo" sound from "book" or "took".
Native Kraut agrees (somewhere earlier in the thread) - though I couldn't think of a suitable English word with a "1+1/2 - length double-o".

You have no idea of the evil genius of having the Italian subtitles in "Django- Unchained" spell Brunhilde as "Broomhilda" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tTBVSqPAE) to Christoph Waltz' immaculate high-German pronunciation - It's like Tarantino & Waltz wanted to give the tedeschi hysterical bellyaches ...

Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'

(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)

The German plural of "umlaut" is "umlaute", yes, but the English plural of "umlaut" is "umlauts". Since PR was writing in English at the time, their use of "umlauts" is correct.

Edit: Yeah, people trying to import foreign plurals into English is a pet peeve of mine. Come on, folks, English has enough crazy inconsistencies already; can we at least try not to introduce any more?
Aaaaaand you sprung my trap ...

From a German's POV, this is almost PoMo. Germans are certainly not above gently ribbing Americans about their pronunciation of the "Umlauts" (or rather: filming their attempts, see above) - but actually chiding them for their efforts would almost certainly be considered "being too German" - i.e. Germans would feel inclined to chastise the 'Klugscheisser' (lit.: "Smart-shitter", i.e. 'wisecrack') for embarrassing the tribe in front of a guest.

So: Stop being so German, 'Murricans!

Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".

Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")


EDIT:
Use enough and you'll have umlots of them. There's a reason you don't see too many of them together in a single word or sentence; they get quite rowdy in groups and turn into umlouts.

Can I like this twice? Why can't I like this twice?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 20 May 2016, 15:15
Use enough and you'll have umlots of them. There's a reason you don't see too many of them together in a single word or sentence; they get quite rowdy in groups and turn into umlouts.
Don't use them in a coffee shop unless you want an umlatte.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 20 May 2016, 15:22
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")

The pronunciation I expect to hear here is "Kintergarden" - weird, I know; but the OED gives the pronunciation as "Kindergarten" (and yes, plural with -s)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 20 May 2016, 15:25
There does not need to be any umlaut in Brun's name to explain Clinton's mispronunciation of "Broon". When pronounced with the German u, "Brun" is fairly close to English's "Broon". The difference is that the vowel sound "oo" in Broon is a little too long. Instead of the  "oo" sound from, say, "broom" or "boot", it should actually be the "oo" sound from "book" or "took".
Native Kraut agrees (somewhere earlier in the thread) - though I couldn't think of a suitable English word with a "1+1/2 - length double-o".

You have no idea of the evil genius of having the Italian subtitles in "Django- Unchained" spell Brunhilde as "Broomhilda" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tTBVSqPAE) to Christoph Waltz' immaculate high-German pronunciation - It's like Tarantino & Waltz wanted to give the tedeschi hysterical bellyaches ...

Your dumping on Americans' difficulties with German pronunciation would have a lot more gravitas if you stopped messing up German grammar ...
Just sayin'

(The plural of "Umlaut" is "Umlaute", not "Umlauts" - Germans might use the latter deliberately, in order to mock uneducated people ... Soooooh, actually, to a native speaker, you sound like you 'got hoisted by your own petard', but: I know, I know, your Head & it's cannon ...)

The German plural of "umlaut" is "umlaute", yes, but the English plural of "umlaut" is "umlauts". Since PR was writing in English at the time, their use of "umlauts" is correct.

Edit: Yeah, people trying to import foreign plurals into English is a pet peeve of mine. Come on, folks, English has enough crazy inconsistencies already; can we at least try not to introduce any more?
Aaaaaand you sprung my trap ...

From a German's POV, this is almost PoMo. Germans are certainly not above gently ribbing Americans about their pronunciation of the "Umlauts" (or rather: filming their attempts, see above) - but actually chiding them for their efforts would almost certainly be considered "being too German".

So: Stop being so German, 'Murricans!

Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".

Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")
It's mostly true. It depends on which region you're in for both spelling and pronunciation. Some say and spell it "kindergarten", some say and spell it as above. And some regions pronounce the 't' halfway between a 'd' and a 't' (like how the letter 'd' is sometimes pronounced in Cherokee).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 20 May 2016, 16:07
Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".

Huh, I would have expected it to be "Computern" or something like that.  8-)

Some people like to do that with loanwords in English, too, but English has loanwords from so many different languages that it's much harder to try to remember all the different plural forms than to simply apply the standard English ones.  Plus, this seems to be a tendency with fairly recent loanwords; ones that came into English longer ago got stuck with English plurals (whether they liked it or not!), so that makes it even more inconsistent.

Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")

Yes, and yes, at least the way I usually hear it around here (California). There are so many regional variations in the English pronunciations of everything that I'm sure there are other pronunciations, too.

Before I even saw your reply, I wrote up a little example for the next time I get into a discussion of foreign plurals -- and I used "kindergarten" as one of the examples:
Quote
All together now, folks, repeat after me:

English is not Latin, so the English plural of octopus is octopuses, not octopi.
English is not Japanese, so the English plural of tsunami is tsunamis, not tsunami.
English is not German, so the English plural of kindergarten is kindergartens, not kindergärten.

No English speaker ever tries to apply the German plural to kindergarten, because that's an older loanword (and because we don't do umlauts), but the other two are pretty common.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 20 May 2016, 16:14
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")

In the interior of words, AmE typically neutralizes the t/d distinction. In most people's speech, "ladder" and "latter", for example, sound essentially the same. (People will typically deny that they do this, but the recordings and spectrograms are clear.) (And no, if you just pronounced both of them carefully and they sounded different, that doesn't count - people normally don't speak that carefully.) What sound is actually used varies; in some people's speech it's more like a 't', in some it's more like a 'd', in some it's a glottal stop or a quick, r-like tap.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: ZoeB on 20 May 2016, 16:22
Lesson for today about Life.

In the morning, you may see a polite rejection by your G/F of a date proposal to be a Big Thing.
In the evening, the Universe may have given you some perspective, the hard way. Not to mention pressing a Reset button on your own life. Twice.

Moral: don't sweat the small stuff, it just encourages bigger stuff to come along and go Booga Booga to you.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: AtomicBlueFA1 on 20 May 2016, 16:32
Considering how much attention people have been paying to the clock lately, I'm quite surprised nobody has questioned Jeph's classification of it as a cuckoo clock. There really is no indication that it is a cuckoo clock aside from Jeph saying so, but as an amateur clock enthusiast, I really would like to say that I believe that he is incorrect. A cuckoo clock that anybody might recognize as such would have many carvings and ornamentations around the case that would still be visible from the back, which is the only view of it we have been given thus far. A cuckoo clock would also have a minimum of four chains hanging from the bottom (technically two chains with both ends hanging down, with a cast iron weight attached to one end of each). It seems to me that what she has is simply a small spring driven mantle clock, which of course may still be of German origin.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 20 May 2016, 16:46
Well, see, I don't play armchair psychologist since a.) I graduated with a degree in Psychology, and b.) I am a counselor (a "youth counselor", but still).

The technical term we have for Brun is "somethin' not quite right there."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 20 May 2016, 17:52
Loanwords & plurals: We do the same with "Computer" - German plural is "Computer", just like the German "Rechner", despite the English plural being "Computers".

Huh, I would have expected it to be "Computern" or something like that.  8-)

...

Actually, "Computern" is
a) The plural of the dativ-case (http://definition-online.de/mehrzahl-computer/), i.e. "den Computern"
b) A colloquial weak verb (http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/computern), meaning "to do smth. with a Computer"  -> German is ... rather neologism-positive. Truth be told, enthusiastically so (And "Administrative German" has mutated to the point where ordinary Germans utilize software for their tax-declaration - of course with course-material explaining what all the weird terms actually mean(*)) - to the point where Germans often don't bat an eye at encountering a word that's not listed in any dictionary.
Often, Germans start using "mock German neologisms" that later might become actual words. E.g. "computern", as a verb, could have been smth. lil' Case & friends might have used in the 80s, just for fun, and because it sounds droll - today, it's in the dictionary.

(*) For example "Garage" - there's two words for the place you put your car (into). One is "Garage" - that's what ordinary Germans use when talking to ordinary Germans. Then there's the "officious version" - "Kraftfahrzeug-Einstellplatz" - literally: Motorized-vehicle-put-into-place. A place to put your motorized vehicle into. Note that a car is an "Auto(mobile)", but also belongs to the larger category of "Kraftfahrzeug" - motorized vehicle. Office German is mostly just ... incredibly mindless concatenations of the most literal-minded and unwieldy terms one can possibly use.
That's "office German" for two of the more common German words -  that's not even the point where German Bureaucrats engage their higher cerebral functions ...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 20 May 2016, 18:11
Haha! Very cool, thank you Case!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 20 May 2016, 19:11
Speaking of the numbers of vowels in languages: Ubykh has two vowels, and so does Mandarin in some analyses of its phonology. But I really don't want to get deep into this, unless someone wants me to go into phonological analysis and diachronical reconstruction. IIRC Swedish has the most among European languages.

You might find this amusing: Nothing is Perfect (http://satwcomic.com/nothing-is-perfect)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 20 May 2016, 21:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41lZmGcRWHU
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mad Cat on 20 May 2016, 21:39
Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 20 May 2016, 21:55
Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.

Me too! I was like, "Who's that guy with Claire?? That's not Marten!!"

Then I looked back at the earlier panel where he detailed his options as "call a cab", or "stay at Mom's for the night", and I realized he must have gone to his mom's place.

Hey, Clinton, if you've got a cell phone on you for calling a cab, why didn't you call your Mom and let her know you were coming by? I would never have dreamed of just dropping in on my parents unexpectedly like that after I moved out.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 20 May 2016, 22:21
He's lost his Glasses, I'm wondering if he's done the same with his Cell while escaping the fire as well.

Either that, or he's so used to being able to pop in on his mother like that that it wasn't something he even considered.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: anahata on 20 May 2016, 23:07
I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 20 May 2016, 23:59
Can always call with number-assigned contacts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 21 May 2016, 02:55
I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...
He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 21 May 2016, 05:45
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.

I don't there's much to grasp. It's anorthographic convention that indicates that this is the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel. It used to, and still can be, written as an <e> after, the <e> started being writen on top, which eventualy morphed into the umlaut. I've seen it writen as an <e> on top even in 20th century texts, though, and it's still very common to write it as an <e> after.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 21 May 2016, 07:34
Ugh, this thread, for days, has made me wish I had taken German. I feel I have a better grasp of the umlaut, but I feel that way having only heard it a handul of times, none of which I remember clearly. I can count to three, I can talk shit in the most literal sense, and that is it.

I don't there's much to grasp. It's an orthographic convention that indicates that this is the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel. It used to, and still can be, written as an <e> after, the <e> started being writen on top, which eventualy morphed into the umlaut. I've seen it writen as an <e> on top even in 20th century texts, though, and it's still very common to write it as an <e> after.

I was taught that writing an 'e' after the vowel rather than an umlaut above the vowel was usually done as way of writing German words in languages that don't have umlauts, like English. I see it a lot in the names of families whose ancestors immigrated to the US from Germany: Koenig instead of König, Schaefer instead of Schäfer, Schueler instead of Schüler, that kind of thing.

Also, I think chaospersonified was talking about understanding how to pronounce umlauted vowels. Maybe you were too, but if so I have no idea what "the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel" means, sorry.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Eastrim on 21 May 2016, 08:19
I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...
He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?

Thought Clairemom WAS Claire for a second.
All anyone sees is the red hair...

I think I love your brain.
Why, thank you! It's not for sale, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 21 May 2016, 09:04
I was taught that writing an 'e' after the vowel rather than an umlaut above the vowel was usually done as way of writing German words in languages that don't have umlauts, like English. I see it a lot in the names of families whose ancestors immigrated to the US from Germany: Koenig instead of König, Schaefer instead of Schäfer, Schueler instead of Schüler, that kind of thing.

Also, I think chaospersonified was talking about understanding how to pronounce umlauted vowels. Maybe you were too, but if so I have no idea what "the front equivalent of the corresponding back vowel" means, sorry.

For example in German and Spanish "o" and "u" are back, "e" and "i" are front. "o" with and umlaut is pronounced with the lips rounded but otherwise like "e", "u" with an umlaut with the lips rounded but otherwise like "i". "a" is a back vowel in German, and "a" with an umlaut is front, similar to the "a" in the English word "back".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 21 May 2016, 09:09
You say these things like they make sense. I do not know what that means, that some vowel sounds are front and some are back.

I can MAKE the sounds if I've heard them. No amount of written word will help me understand how to make a sound. I need to hear it. That's what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Skewbrow on 21 May 2016, 09:45
It made sense to me. When I am articulating the only difference between A and Ä, O and Ö, or U and Ü (or in Scandinavia more likely Y) is the location of the tongue. In the umlauted versions the tongue moves to the front, and in the non-umlauted versions it stays in the back. Hence front/back vowels.

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel#Front.2C_raised.2C_and_retracted) the proper terms would be front/redacted vowels.

And to return to where this started. If you have an un-umlauted version of Brunhilde, I think the 'u' should be pronounced like in the English word 'put'. The vowel in either 'broom' or 'flute' is too long IMHO.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 21 May 2016, 12:17
Very interesting. But...
Let me put it another way. I'm annoyed that Jeph seems to be dumbing down his comic so that Americans don't have to deal with umlauts.

It's still not clear what sound you think is in her name. Lubricus' core objection to your original statement was that the actual sound of "ü" is far enough off from "oo" that it's not a plausible mistake for Clinton to have made (as opposed to "ee").
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 21 May 2016, 12:22
I wouldn't even be able to use my cell phone without my glasses...
He has a smartphone. I haven't used the actual dial-pad on mine more than a couple of times since I got it. Half the time I don't even take it out of my pocket either.
Do you just wiggle your hips and say "call Joe"?
No, but close. Bluetooth headset + Siri. She knows all my contacts by name so I just have to tell her to call them for me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Random832 on 21 May 2016, 12:24
Question: Is it true that you write "Kindergarten" - just like the German spelling - but pronounce it "Kindergarden"? And what's the plural? Kindergartens? (German plural would be "Kindergärten")

The plural is rare because the word as a countable noun is rare. In principle, the word, as used in English, has two meanings:

Uncountable: The year of school immediately before first grade, of children aged 5-6 years old.
Countable: A school that only has kindergarten classes, and no preschool or elementary grade levels.

Such schools are themselves uncommon.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.

Well, in Sütterlin handwriting style the "e" (in full or as an umlaut) becomes two vertical lines. See Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#Umlaut). I suspect the use of two round dots in Antiqua typefaces simply followed naturally from a unification (who wants to keep two different versions around in the movable type era) with the diaeresis/trema, a distinct diacritic originally from Greek indicating a separation of two adjacent vowels.

You say these things like they make sense. I do not know what that means, that some vowel sounds are front and some are back.

It has to do with where your tongue is in your mouth. Make the sounds that you do know how to make, and pay attention to how your tongue is positioned.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 21 May 2016, 12:56
Except that, as some people noted, her reaction wasn't actually unusual at all. The situation is what's unusual - she doesn't have to be autistic or had past trauma for her reaction to be a perfectly reasonable reaction to this trauma. People's responses in high stress situations run the gamut, and hers is fairly well known.

I think the main reason for the autism speculation is that she knows she's going to become nonverbal due to the stress and because she knows she doesn't handle emotions all that well.

That latter bit is the only thing I can think of to cause the trauma speculation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 21 May 2016, 14:05
Considering how much attention people have been paying to the clock lately, I'm quite surprised nobody has questioned Jeph's classification of it as a cuckoo clock. There really is no indication that it is a cuckoo clock aside from Jeph saying so, but as an amateur clock enthusiast, I really would like to say that I believe that he is incorrect. A cuckoo clock that anybody might recognize as such would have many carvings and ornamentations around the case that would still be visible from the back, which is the only view of it we have been given thus far. A cuckoo clock would also have a minimum of four chains hanging from the bottom (technically two chains with both ends hanging down, with a cast iron weight attached to one end of each). It seems to me that what she has is simply a small spring driven mantle clock, which of course may still be of German origin.

Now that you mention it ... You're right! Black Forest cuckoo-clocks are usually big, heavy affairs you hang on walls. My Grandma had one that fits your description, with heavy weights at the end of the chains in the shape of fir-cones. Something like this
(http://www.kuckucksuhr.net/get-image.aspx?file=tu-350-q.jpg)

As to how "typically German" they are these days:
Those are the type of clocks that many younger Germans (only) remember from their grandparents' places, or clocks which are often sold to the US and China - the "originals" are really pricey - and, again, for us me, this is "What Granny had on the Walls". Really old-school. Clashes a bit with the interior decoration younger Germans tend to prefer ...
... when you've had lots of dark greens and diarrhoea-browns in your childhood, you tend to prefer the kind of colours that make a black-forest cuckoo-clock stick out like a ... huge, noisy contraption coloured like a bathroom-accident  :-\

(There's a few articles (albeit in German) that tie the economic "crisis" of Black Forest cuckoo-clock manufacturers to the Dollar exchange rate ... On top of changing fashions, one could surmise that people tend to eschew 'last-opportunity purchases' of unwieldy 500€ mechanisms with chains and weights one could use for martial-arts training when the manufacturer is only an hour's drive away - It seems it's mostly US citizens on a Europe-tour that make such spur-of-the-moment purchases)

If you do a Google-Image-Search for "Kuckucksuhr" (https://www.google.de/search?q=Kuckucksuhr&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFi6vCiurMAhXlE5oKHVPUCjIQsAQIfg&biw=1920&bih=942), the only casing that vaguely resembles Brunhilde's clock is:

(http://freshideen.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Kuckucksuhr-selber-bauen-modern-uhrwerk-bastelladen.jpg)

in a Cuckoo-clock DIY-quide (http://freshideen.com/diy-do-it-yourself/kuckucksuhr-selber-bauen.html). This is something you'd be more likely to find in an actual German-burrow, rather than the thingy in the first pic.

(I think that "Kuckucksuhr" is more like smth. of a meme for younger Germans - a part of folk-lore - rather than a specific, patented type of clockwork. The shape of the casing - the "Bahnwärter-Häusschen" (Train-station-attendant-kiosk) - is mandatory, as is the damn bird, but the rest ... This is, of course, totally subjective speculation, extrapolated from one datapoint/person ... Based on some German ads I get from the Google-search, it seems you can sell smth. you call a 'Kuckucksuhr' to a German if it has a particular casing & the bloody bird, and if it's cheaper than 19.99€ and made in North Korea - but, of course, we'd know it's not the 'real deal', but a cuckoo-clock 'in spirit only'. Same as Japanese know that not everything that is called a 'Katana' is a priceless inheritance handed down from father to son ever since it was forged in the 16th century, see?)

And now that you've mentioned it: Jeph never said it was a cuckoo-clock - He asked "Is this a cuckoo-clock?".

------------------------- She's not autistic - she's just German! -----------------------------------
Sooooooh:

* Jeph took a name that screams "I am German!" to the germano-a-typical, because it says so in popular US culture.
   Actually, Brunhilde was most 'popular' as a girls name in 1925 (place 63. Yes, we have statistics for that. It's Germany ...). Right now, there's no data on it's popularity, because the sample-size is too small.
   I've never, ever met somebody named Brunhilde, or Brünhild etc. (*)

* Then he took a clunky contraption and asked "Is this a cuckoo-clock?" ...
And everybody, myself included, goes: "Trival, my dear Watson - She's German, of course: Hypnotising cuckoo clocks and passing on messages to please leave them alone bcs. pooping is WHAT GERMANS DO!":psyduck:

(Really, we do stuff like that - like, all the fucking time. Ok, everytime you aren't looking ... Fine, alright, you got me - we don't. Like NOT AT ALL ...)

(*) Even the more common "Hildegard" is rather rare - those are the types of old-school names that translate into smth. like "Fabled Chest-Armour, Rips-intestines-from-their-enemies-guts" in old-high-German. Not really that popular these days ...


-----------------------------------------------------------
@Storel, @zmeiat_joro:
EDIT: Removed bollocks ...

The rowdiest Umloutz in the German language - the so-called Umlewdz - are ... *drumroll* ... "Tüpfelhyänenöhrchen" (Ears-of-a-spotted-hyena) and "Übergrössenträger" ((Male)-Plus-size-wearer)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 21 May 2016, 17:28
OTOH, I am American, and there was a Brünhilde in my first-grade class.  Whom we called "Brill" until fifth grade when she started insisting on people using her full name.  There was also a Thed, (rhymes with "need") who I thought had the more unusual name.

Oh, and FWIW, the full rule that gets applied to "Kindergarten" is

"T when it occurs between two voiced vowels, is usually pronounced with a D sound, unless the word is emphasized in the sentence or the syllable is emphasized in the word.   This is almost universally true in large urban centers in America.  In rural areas, it usually depends on whether the original settlers in that area were mostly German immigrants, and on how long it's been since the area was settled.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 22 May 2016, 01:17
Poll Results

So, now what?
1. Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night; it turns into a longer-term thing - 25 (23.1%)
2. We cut back to Marten and Claire; Clinton's call for help interrupts a... moment - 20 (18.5%)
3. Clinton begs his mum to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night - 13 (12%)
4. New arc! May's probation hearing is coming up and she needs to persuade her friends to speak on her behalf - 12 (11.1%)
5. Bubbles has things to think about and notices a fire in the city... a BIG fire - 11 (10.2%)
6. Clinton begs Claire, Marten and Faye to let Eyebrow Girl Brun sleep over for the night - 10 (9.3%)
=7. New arc! Just what has Hannelore been doing with her time when she isn't at CoD? - 6 (5.6%)
=7. Other - 6 (5.6%
9. New arc! Steve returns and he needs Marten's help for something! - 3 (2.8%)
10. We meet another of Jeph's new characters when she comes into CoD the next morning - 2 (1.9%)

Well, it turns out we were all wrong! :lol: I guess it's our own fault for not imagining that a local hotel could be so generous to offer someone benighted and without a home due to mischance a bed for a night! Shameful, cynical forumites that we are! Of course, it probably helps that Northampton's sheriff's department is footing the bill, I'm sure!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 22 May 2016, 02:24
I'm so pleased that we have some proficient speakers of German here. This means that I can verify these translations from some Bach that we have been rehearsing. I've been assured that these are all basically correct.

Valet will ich dir geben
I will give a deer to the valet

Kommt, Seelen, dieser Tag
Come, seals, this day

Wie bist du, Seele
How are you, seal?

Christus, der uns selig macht
Christ, make us a salad

Nun lob mein Seel den Herren
Don't throw that herring to my seal

Was willst du dich, o meine Seele
What are you gonna do now, O my seal?

Christ lag in Todes Banden
Christ is late to every band rehearsal

Schmücke dich, o liebe Seele
My dear seal, you are such a schmuck
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 22 May 2016, 03:08
The plural is rare because the word as a countable noun is rare. In principle, the word, as used in English, has two meanings:

Uncountable: The year of school immediately before first grade, of children aged 5-6 years old.
Countable: A school that only has kindergarten classes, and no preschool or elementary grade levels.

Such schools are themselves uncommon.

Off-topic, but the countable version is actually pretty common, the default, in fact, in Bulgaria. And cause for much angst, I might add, for parents to find one which is nearby and decent.

I didn't know that it used to be written as an 'e' on top of the vowel, though; very interesting! I wonder how on earth the 'e' got transmuted into two dots.

Well, in Sütterlin handwriting style the "e" (in full or as an umlaut) becomes two vertical lines. See Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29#Umlaut). I suspect the use of two round dots in Antiqua typefaces simply followed naturally from a unification (who wants to keep two different versions around in the movable type era) with the diaeresis/trema, a distinct diacritic originally from Greek indicating a separation of two adjacent vowels.

Ha! I knew that but somehow I forgot. I mean it's obvious they reused the diaresis/trema, but that it came from Sütterlin.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Indicible on 22 May 2016, 04:39
@ Tova

Ha ha , nice gag translation
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 22 May 2016, 05:04
@Tova: I can't even ...  :-D

"Christ, make us a salad"  :laugh:

Priceless!

Yeah, ummmh, basically ... correct! 8-)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 22 May 2016, 06:06
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut!  :psyduck:
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: retrosteve on 22 May 2016, 09:03
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?


It also means 'good' (fem. sing.) in Hebrew. And being a pretty short word with two open syllables, is probably represented in a lot of languages. But I know for sure it's a Hebrew girl's name.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: oeoek on 22 May 2016, 11:38
Needed some time to get my head around the past week.
1: Clin-ton seems to have a subscription on  weird nights (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2935). Must be character building or something.
2: Have we seen Chad before the store? Like here (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2924)?
3: I see no indication for Brun being autistic. After all this is a universe that has pizza's delivered by superheroes or dropped from orbit, and even an every day coffee shop has several lethal weapons within reach. A harpoon in a bar is peanuts. For all we know Brun might be a heavy stutterer who has managed to overcome her problem, unless stressed. Silence is just her other solution.
4: I am very curious about that clock...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 22 May 2016, 13:01
Man, it's gonna be really depressing if Clinton&Brunhilde become a thing and to see Emily's reaction. She didn't outright reject Clinton 100%, and if he suddenly goes off for someone else that'd just be sad 'cuz she'd probably be regretful about it all.

(Also I just noticed when Clinton is saying he'll call a cab his breath is a little heart flopping downward.. probably not intentional but still kinda funny.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 22 May 2016, 13:53
I think his seal could use a herring ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 22 May 2016, 18:11
Hi zmeiat_joro and retrosteve,

@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut!  :psyduck:
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.


It also means 'good' (fem. sing.) in Hebrew. And being a pretty short word with two open syllables, is probably represented in a lot of languages. But I know for sure it's a Hebrew girl's name.

Okay, so the story behind my username...

I used to play World of Warcraft, and I had just created a new character... a female dwarf holy priest (I am male, but usually picked a female character in WoW). I was fishing about for a name that was short but not taken, which was a pretty big ask, even in those relatively early days of the game.

I came across Tova, and I liked it. I chose it for exactly the reasons that retrosteve mentioned. It means 'good', which I felt worked for a healer, and it's a nice short name that is easy to type and to say over ventrillo while raiding. And I liked the sound of it. Most importantly, no-one else had yet taken it. It ticked all the boxes.

I've stopped playing now, which is a long story in itself. I got to a point where I identified closely with my character by the time I was done with the game, so I've become fond of the name and still use it from time to time.

Avatar: yes, it's from The Wombles, a show I grew up watching. Yes, it's Uncle Bulgaria. :) I didn't actually realise Tova was a Bulgarian word, so that's just a happy coincidence.

Emoticons: I still remember when we just called them smilies. (:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 22 May 2016, 18:13
I think his seal could use a herring ...

Nun lob sein Seel den Herren!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 22 May 2016, 18:23
I think his seal could use a herring ...

Nun lob sein Seel den Herren!

I'd like to know your "mockslator's" version of Machs´s mit mir, Gott, nach deiner Güt, (http://www.christliche-gedichte.de/?pg=10828)

(Hoping for some leniency from the resident non-heathens here - I used to be in a children's choir & remember well us playing the same game with some Italian chorals)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 22 May 2016, 19:05
I believe it can roughly be translated to, "Make me some gloves, God, once you've eaten."

Bach wrote a lot of these, didn't he? This must be an obscure holiday.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Case on 23 May 2016, 01:55
I believe it can roughly be translated to, "Make me some gloves, God, once you've eaten."

Bach wrote a lot of these, didn't he? This must be an obscure holiday.

Oh, yes! Every German child remembers "Glovesgiving Day".
And the "Offer of the soup"!
Staple of German culture ...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 23 May 2016, 06:11
I really must learn not to read these forums when sudden bursts of laughter would wake my partner.  :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Tova on 23 May 2016, 18:08
Because I was reading through a Pergolesi score, I thought I would provide some more translations that every classical musician should know.

graveWatch the conductor
larghettoWatch the conductor
andanteWatch the conductor
allegro (ma non troppo)Watch the conductor
allegroWatch the conductor
a tempo giustoWatch the conductor
presto assaiWatch the conductor
Finis Laus DeoYou can stop watching the conductor now, thank God
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 23 May 2016, 21:46
From Crisis to Crisis? Sounds a lot like DC Comics, doesn't it? Am I right or am I right?

 :clairedoge:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 24 May 2016, 05:13
Just saw this on Facebook, and had to post a copy here after all the linguistic discussion lately (spoilered for size):

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: hedgie on 24 May 2016, 06:03
Oh yes, English would probably make the attempt to have it actually written "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" and expect someone to grok the meaning.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 25 May 2016, 02:08
@Tova, I may have asked you this before, but your username means "this" in Bulgarian, probably not the actual origin, but?

EDIT1: and your avatar is from The Wombles?
EDIT2: pretty sure I asked you this before.
EDIT3: also, if anyone's interested, we can talk about ablaut!  :psyduck:
EDIT4: also did you know that "!" is a kind an emoticon?
EDIT5: there's a connection between the original comment and  EDIT1, which may not be obvious to most.
EDIT6: they call emoticons emojis these days, don't they? what's supposed to be the difference?
EDIT7: probably that they're graphical rather than using punctuation/letters to represent emotions. But fora started automatically replacing stuff like : ) with a graphic two decades before, although you could set your profile on whether that should happen. "!" is just IO with the I on top of the O, with the O represented as a dot. Basically "Yo".
EDIT FINAL: I'm aware of the subtext of the word "decent". I just couldn't find a better one and I'm hoping to maybe reclaim it.
This vid (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNVf-1M7xQ) will help with #s 6 &7.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Storel on 26 May 2016, 17:22
Oh yes, English would probably make the attempt to have it actually written "Abandon all hope ye who enter here" and expect someone to grok the meaning.

I don't think I grok your meaning, unless you're saying that "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" is hard to understand? It seems easy to me, though, which is why I don't think I'm interpreting you correctly. Or are you saying that many people won't get the reference to Dante's Inferno, in which that particular phrase is engraved above the door to Hell?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 26 May 2016, 23:38
Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by
Here, by Spartan law we lie.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3221 to 3225 (16 - 20 May 2016)
Post by: Laminator_X on 01 Jun 2016, 21:53
I really wish people would stop projecting their identities onto characters based on trivial details.

"OMG, SHE LOOKED AT A PINK THING, THAT MEANS SHE'S TOTALLY (insert random bullshit here) BECAUSE I ALSO LOOKED AT A PINK THING AND HAD THE SAME REACTION ONCE 13 YEARS AGO"

FWIW, I'm not on the spectrum and still got a heavy spectrum vibe from Brun starting around the time she oferred Clinton the free drink. The little stuff adds up.