Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: jwhouk on 01 Jun 2016, 17:36

Title: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 01 Jun 2016, 17:36
New month, new discussion, new poll... such as it is.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 01 Jun 2016, 21:29
Butts
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Jun 2016, 22:47
The answer is always butts.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Jun 2016, 22:57
Probably some exposition courtesy of Alice.  It's been 3 weeks since the Night Walker shot at the moon and they seem to be in a different geographic area.  Moreover, if Alice thought it was necessary to risk traveling with a comatose companion then I imagine it's a very pressing matter. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Jun 2016, 23:28
 ALICE: "Jack, if there's nothing wrong, why did you press the button?"

JACK: "It's a Big Red Button! How could I not press it?"

ALICE: "It's... hard to argue with that position."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: hedgie on 02 Jun 2016, 07:50
Well, that alone would prove that Alice is not an evil overlord.

Quote
I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button labelled "Danger: Do Not Push". The big red button marked "Do Not Push" will instead trigger a spray of bullets on anyone stupid enough to disregard it.
  -- Peter Anspatch's list of things to do as an evil overlord.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 02 Jun 2016, 10:39
Definitely Chekhov's button meanwhile back there at the Town.

[ob ren + stimpy]
https://www.youtube.com/embed/knLzNk0QeoQ
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 02 Jun 2016, 15:00
Well, you left out the obvious "nanobot withdrawal sequence".

Or it would be like, they make Gavia walk along side the cart and she's like "see, I can do this just fine" and Alice would reply "unbelieveable, if you were baseline, you'd be bed-bound". Easy peasy, single strip exposition and the adveture can procees.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jheartney on 03 Jun 2016, 13:56
Is Alice going to get Gavia a meal out of their supplies, or is she going to go find another giant lizard to kill and bring back the tail?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 03 Jun 2016, 14:02
Is Alice going to get Gavia a meal out of their supplies, or is she going to go find another giant lizard to kill and bring back the tail?

She hasn't eaten in 21 days.  I would think she could eat the whole lizard. 

I was hoping for a little more exposition on what happened, but maybe there wasn't all that much to tell.

Her look at Ardent is neither forgiving nor hateful so it's probably the best one can expect for now.   

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 03 Jun 2016, 14:08
Ok, so which former lake is this (assuming they are on Earth, and the lake exists in our time)? Talk of prairies hints at North America, but probably not conclusively. I don't think any of the Great Lakes would be this flat. Salt Lake would match the scenery well, but draining it for water would then feel misplaced? Also is it wide enough to need 3 weeks to cross?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 03 Jun 2016, 14:24
Ok, so which former lake is this (assuming they are on Earth, and the lake exists in our time)? Talk of prairies hints at North America, but probably not conclusively. I don't think any of the Great Lakes would be this flat. Salt Lake would match the scenery well, but draining it for water would then feel misplaced? Also is it wide enough to need 3 weeks to cross?

Lake Erie is the most shallow of the Great Lakes so they might be traveling by the remnants of my old hometown or stopping there if it survived the centuries.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 03 Jun 2016, 14:47
The more I see Gavia in action, the more I wonder if Alice is seeing more than a little of herself in the girl. Proud, prone to mistakes driven by anger and unwilling to apologise, partly due to pride but also due to shame and being uncomfortable with social interaction.

Alice, being five millennia old, is wise enough to know that nothing will be gained by forcing Gavia and Ardent to confront this issue. There is time enough for that later when time and distance have scabbed over the wounds a little; firstly, they have to complete their mission.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jheartney on 03 Jun 2016, 15:43
Lake Erie is the most shallow of the Great Lakes so they might be traveling by the remnants of my old hometown or stopping there if it survived the centuries.   

The Aral Sea? The Salton Sea? The Mediterranean has had a history of drying out when plate techtonics closed up Gibraltar.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 03 Jun 2016, 16:10
The more I see Gavia in action, the more I wonder if Alice is seeing more than a little of herself in the girl. Proud, prone to mistakes driven by anger and unwilling to apologise, partly due to pride but also due to shame and being uncomfortable with social interaction.

Alice, being five millennia old, is wise enough to know that nothing will be gained by forcing Gavia and Ardent to confront this issue. There is time enough for that later when time and distance have scabbed over the wounds a little; firstly, they have to complete their mission.

Well they are dressed similarly. 

Alice might also see in Gavia the girl she was before the blink.  Perhaps she also placed too much faith in the wisdom of the Praesides which might be the source of her grudge.  If Gavia feels betrayed by them it could be a sentiment they both share.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 03 Jun 2016, 16:45
From how Alice says it, the lake was probably a man-made deal for a reservoir. And since she mentioned "thousands" of years, it could be anywhere.

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 03 Jun 2016, 21:43
Those birds don't have bits in their mouths beaks.  How are they being steered?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 03 Jun 2016, 22:23
Hoo boy.  Those two are going to have to talk eventually, but not yet I think.

I don't think we're going to get an idea where we are definitively unless we get an Orbital or at least Airborne view.  I've been assuming they're somewhere on the North American Continent (U.S.A, Canada region) but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 04 Jun 2016, 02:28
Those birds don't have bits in their mouths beaks.  How are they being steered?
No reins at all in an earlier view. But Sedna does have a staff with a knob on the end...

On reflection I like the suggestion of Aral Sea. But the culture feels more like a descendant of North American rather than Eastern European. The research required to project a future steppe culture, plus the exposition required to explain it to a primarily western audience to whom its strange would be quite a distraction.

Ultimately though, if its your universe you can take inspiration from wherever suits you...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 04 Jun 2016, 05:29
mep
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 04 Jun 2016, 05:59
The language and culture of Alice's town seem roughly 19th-century American Midwest in origin. Which may not mean anything - that may just have been the culture Alice was trying to promote,  and after 5000 years Alice has had time to make the town's culture anything she wants it to be.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 04 Jun 2016, 11:11
Think of ANY civilzation in history, a thousand years later. Generally unrecognizable.  A few exceptions: China is still China.  But even China in 1000 years will not look like China.

5000 years later after a purge of all higher technology and a large part of the population, this won't look much like Earth as we know it. This could be anywhere on the planet with enough territory to permit this much travel in a straight line.  For all we know, it's Antarctica, with the rest of the planet being too hot to support human life.

(P.S. I rather like this idea.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 04 Jun 2016, 13:21
For all we know, it's Antarctica, with the rest of the planet being too hot to support human life.

(P.S. I rather like this idea.)
I doubt, for several reasons.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 04 Jun 2016, 13:31
Antarctica would also be a really bad place to put a spaceport. It's much easier to launch into orbit from near the equator (it's why the U.S. launches from Florida and the EU launches from French Guyana.)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 04 Jun 2016, 15:25
There's maybe a clue in "community of archaeophiles digging up rockets way out west" in http://www.alicegrove.com/post/140340016979/it-wouldnt-do-any-good-but-shed-feel-better

West is interesting... If we assume they are travelling West to a pre blink site.  Baikonur is to the East of the Aral sea, and Vostochny even more so. You can't travel west to Florida or to Kourou, so that only really leaves Mohave/Edwards in California of current sites, but can someone suggest a lake -> Prairie candidate?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: wlewisiii on 04 Jun 2016, 15:42
Lake Mead.  (I wonder if anything remains of the Hoover dam or if it was destroyed in the wars? That would have been a big honking flood down the  grand canyon... )

Depending on where they started from they could cross the northern expanse of what was it to get to Vandenberg Air Force Base, outside of Lompoc, California. As well as launch facilities like those at Kennedy, they also have launch silos for various missile test launches. This could lead to there still being rockets to dig up there.  It is also the best launch site in the US for a polar orbit which is good for military uses and would have probably been the last operational launch facitily on the continent during the wars leading up to the Blink.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 04 Jun 2016, 16:46
Think of ANY civilzation in history, a thousand years later. Generally unrecognizable.  A few exceptions: China is still China.  But even China in 1000 years will not look like China.

5000 years later after a purge of all higher technology and a large part of the population, this won't look much like Earth as we know it. This could be anywhere on the planet with enough territory to permit this much travel in a straight line.  For all we know, it's Antarctica, with the rest of the planet being too hot to support human life.

(P.S. I rather like this idea.)

I dare say that if you plucked someone out of a city in China in 1016 and plopped them into the middle of current day Beijing they would not recognize much in the world. Some landmarks stand the test of time, of course. But everything else would seem alien.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 05 Jun 2016, 07:31
Lake Mead.
Looks a bit flat for that though doesn't it?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jun 2016, 18:16
Gavia seems to be ok.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: wlewisiii on 05 Jun 2016, 18:56
Lake Mead.
Looks a bit flat for that though doesn't it?

For much of it, yeah. Though the northern extents (by Google Maps anyway)  in Moapa Valley look possible.  Perhaps California's Central Valley instead? That's quite flat and getting drained quickly already.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Thrudd on 05 Jun 2016, 19:15
On the 5000+  year timeline the Great lakes would be at best two. Superior and Huron due to their geological nature in comparison to the other three.

There have been proposals to connect Lake Michigan with the Mississippi basin and divert water south and then west. We Canadians are none too happy with that idea, but like that scurvy cat it keep coming back, wall-street bankers leading the charge.  :psyduck:

The other thing to note is that since the last ice-age the ground has been quickly [geological scale folks] bouncing back with the southern end of things dropping and the norther side rising.
So Lake Michigan ending up prairie is not all that farfetched.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jun 2016, 19:51
Five thousand years since the Blink, but the Blink isn't happening tomorrow, the Blink itself could be tens of thousands of years from now, unless there's something to indicate otherwise.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 05 Jun 2016, 20:06
I'm a lot more interested in Ardent's character development than geography or Gavia post-nanotech. He's come a long way from the guy who demanded an apology for making him sound like a jerk from Gavia when she complained he'd ruined her life for a vacation. I suspect this is the first time in his young life he has had to face the knowledge his actions can have major detrimental impacts on people not himself, which has always been his biggest character flaw.

For all he and Gavia were constantly arguing verbally, I think this was the first time Gavia has hated her brother so much she thought physical violence the only appropriate response. Ardent's always been so good at making friends and using charm that being the target of such utter hatred must have been a major shock he is still reeling from. I got the impression Gavia was more surprised than anything else that Ardent's response to them making eye contact was to flinch and look away instead of yelling at her for bashing him up or some ham fisted attempt to be friends again.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jun 2016, 04:47
his actions can have major detrimental impacts on people not himself
Sure, he came to Earth/Terra/Discworld/Whatever, but he can hardly be blamed for the machinations of the Praeses.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 06 Jun 2016, 06:04
Oh, but the Praeses had nothing to do with his behaviour after he arrived on earth. It's more his actions after he came to earth that made me think Ardent had never believed his actions could have detrimental impacts on people. There were several occasions where Alice was not mincing words about how unhappy she was at him being here potentially upsetting her carefully balanced community harmony with outright dimissiveness (Do you know any other girls Jack? This one's boring") or only focusing on how her supervision would impact on him: ("Sweet, you're my tour guide!") He also was gawking and pointing at an obviously freaked out child and mother, reacted to hearing he has to pay for things by asking Alice for money, assumed the crowd was coming to see him rather than Alice, throwing a tantrum because Alice didn't compliment his delightful tail, wanting to meet Miss Wheelwright simply because of her big bottom, and getting upset Miss Wheelwright slapped him after being asked to fuck within minutes of being introduced.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 06 Jun 2016, 06:44
Five thousand years since the Blink, but the Blink isn't happening tomorrow, the Blink itself could be tens of thousands of years from now, unless there's something to indicate otherwise.

I asked a chronological expert about this and all he said was "Don't Blink".
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Jun 2016, 09:21
Five thousand years since the Blink, but the Blink isn't happening tomorrow, the Blink itself could be tens of thousands of years from now, unless there's something to indicate otherwise.

I asked a chronological expert about this and all he said was "Don't Blink".

Well, that's an awful wibbly wobbly answer. Who is this guy anyway?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 06 Jun 2016, 10:00
guessing here ... (lucky if I hit the right order of magnitude)

5-10 mph * 8-10 hours/day * 22 days = 1000-2000 miles ... that's a pretty good chunk of land they've covered ... what man-made lakes are that long across?

or am I drastically overestimating the kind of progress they could make
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 06 Jun 2016, 11:36
It hasn't been said that they've been travelling across the lake for three weeks, or even that they've been travelling for three weeks. That's only how long Gavia was out.

But you are also drastically overestimating. :wink: I don't know how fast those dogs move, but most beast-drawn carts won't reach much beyond human walking speed (carriages and cabs are a different matter).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Jun 2016, 13:02
Unless those birds are significantly more robust than draft horses, then at most you're looking at 20 miles per day. And that's assuming that  they've been on fairly level ground the whole time.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: hedgie on 06 Jun 2016, 16:04
If the birds have ostrich like legs, they'll do better than horses.  Over long distances, bipedal motion is more efficient, and ostriches have *very* efficient locomotion.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 07 Jun 2016, 12:06
Update!

I think that's the first sliver of actual interest and wonder we've seen on Gavia's face in the whole comic.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Jun 2016, 13:58
And Ardent's still beating himself up over it in spite of Alice's explanation.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 07 Jun 2016, 14:08
The Reeducation of Gavia continues.  Todays lesson - Firemaking without Nanotech

Poor Ardent, he's gonna be in a funk for a while I think
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 07 Jun 2016, 14:17
And Ardent's still beating himself up over it in spite of Alice's explanation.

I also think that there is a bit of blame being directed from him Alice's way too. He needn't bother; I get the impression that Alice blames herself for everything, including things that, for no sane reason imaginable, could she be responsible. I suspect that's what made Sedna leave her. She couldn't handle Alice's thundering conceit that, if only she was faster, smarter or more perceptive she would have foreseen and prevented some disaster.

I'm starting to wonder if Gavia is going to start on her very own Tech Tree. Sedna is going to teach her about the base principles that underlie science and engineering and she's going to start trying to push herself up them by pure force of will (and endless amounts of scrap stuff lying just beneath the surface).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Jun 2016, 14:31
This is actually no small accomplishment. Starting a fire with flint and steel is hard. Although much easier than even more primitive methods - try a bow drill sometime.

Gavia has to learn a whole new skill set, and she's going to discover how intelligent and skilled our "primitive" ancestors had to be to survive.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 07 Jun 2016, 15:49
With every strip it appears that Gavia is not as helpless without her nanotechnology as estimated.  She seems to have physically recovered and is now mentally determined to survive.  And now she can make a fire which is something I'd have little patience for.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: improvnerd on 07 Jun 2016, 16:19
Although, it's going to be a little harder for her the next time someone annoys her.

"You have earned my wrath!"

(Kshhk Ksshk)

"Hang on, this may take a while...."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 07 Jun 2016, 17:44
guessing here ... (lucky if I hit the right order of magnitude)

5-10 mph * 8-10 hours/day * 22 days = 1000-2000 miles ... that's a pretty good chunk of land they've covered ... what man-made lakes are that long across?

or am I drastically overestimating the kind of progress they could make

Absolutely, heavy vagons don't go much faster than a good walking pace, meaning maybe 2-3 mph on agreeable terrain. Again, when talking about muscle powered long distance travel, it's more meaningful to divide the distance traveled by day rather than hour, so you get numbers like about 20 miles on a average day.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Jun 2016, 18:40
This is actually no small accomplishment. Starting a fire with flint and steel is hard. Although much easier than even more primitive methods - try a bow drill sometime.

When I was in Boy Scouts as a kid, I tried the glasses and sunlight method, using my own glasses. I'm nearsighted.

I didn't earn many merit badges....
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 07 Jun 2016, 23:05
Oh, but the Praeses had nothing to do with his behaviour after he arrived on earth. It's more his actions after he came to earth that made me think Ardent had never believed his actions could have detrimental impacts on people. There were several occasions where Alice was not mincing words about how unhappy she was at him being here potentially upsetting her carefully balanced community harmony with outright dimissiveness (Do you know any other girls Jack? This one's boring") or only focusing on how her supervision would impact on him: ("Sweet, you're my tour guide!") He also was gawking and pointing at an obviously freaked out child and mother, reacted to hearing he has to pay for things by asking Alice for money, assumed the crowd was coming to see him rather than Alice, throwing a tantrum because Alice didn't compliment his delightful tail, wanting to meet Miss Wheelwright simply because of her big bottom, and getting upset Miss Wheelwright slapped him after being asked to fuck within minutes of being introduced.

Ardent is certainly careless and for the first time regrets his actions, but I have to question how much of it is his personality and the rest culture.  We really don't know that much about the space habitat's people other than Ardent and Gavia.  Ardent's behavior was likely acceptable since he seemed to be popular.  I get a bit of a Brave New World vibe with him.  Gavia seems to be more of an unpopular introvert and workaholic.  The latter may prove useful since she seems very focused on learning how to survive.  Ironically enough she might become popular with the natives while Ardent appears as a shiftless layabout.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Eastrim on 08 Jun 2016, 00:31
Data:
They've been traveling for 3 weeks, but not necessarily across the lake that entire time. Assuming walking speed in a straight direction 10 hours a day, that's 30km a day, for 630 km so far.
They are headed way out west, to a location with many rockets.
The lake was drained for irrigation, THEN for land for farming, in that order, for those reasons.
The lake was really huge.
The area they left was green and forested, and apparently that way any day trippable distance (read: not riverine greenness in an arid or semiarid area).
The area they are now is grassland. Not sure what's up with the exclusively dead trees.
A lot of names and stuff more closely associated with the US than other regions.

The climate stuff is not necessarily indicative, considering how much the world changed, though if this was Earth I would expect most weather systems to remain basically the same. And of course, this all depends on the whims and knowledge of Jeph, and the location of things remaining basically the same as it is today.

Having said that, the biggest indicator is that specific sequence and reasoning for draining of the lake, which is not very common. Many have been drained for land (sometimes for settlement, sometimes for agriculture), many for irrigation, but that sequence only applies to one large lake I know of; Tulare Lake. Formerly the largest lake west of the Mississippi, now nonexistent, drained first for irrigating the developing farmland in the California Central Valley, then to itself be used for land. Vandenberg, a major rocket launch facility, is reasonably southwest (well, more the south than the west) from there.

That lake would probably reconstitute itself without agriculture, but so would most drained lakes when human water usage stopped, since the ground level is still lake friendly. It temporarily reconstitutes to this day when there's enough rain and the canals can't drain it off fast enough. Also, unless they had also been heading much more south than west, there aren't a lot of forest friendly places east of Tulare Lake like we saw. Still, the area would be arid grassland if it wasn't for farming, so it's the most likely option with current data. In my opinion.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 08 Jun 2016, 04:19
Ardent is certainly careless and for the first time regrets his actions, but I have to question how much of it is his personality and the rest culture.  We really don't know that much about the space habitat's people other than Ardent and Gavia.  Ardent's behavior was likely acceptable since he seemed to be popular.  I get a bit of a Brave New World vibe with him.  Gavia seems to be more of an unpopular introvert and workaholic.  The latter may prove useful since she seems very focused on learning how to survive.  Ironically enough she might become popular with the natives while Ardent appears as a shiftless layabout.

As it happens one of my theories that the Praeses do all the work in the space society and leave the humans nothing to do except pursue pleasure. It would explain a lot about how Ardent and Gavia behaved when they first arrived. Ardent cheerfully ran around thinking of his own fun and not the people around him as that was how his society works, and Gavia decided the best way to find Ardent quickly was threats and pyrotechnics because she's never had any need to learn problem solving and conflict resolution.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 08 Jun 2016, 05:54
Ardent is certainly careless and for the first time regrets his actions, but I have to question how much of it is his personality and the rest culture.  We really don't know that much about the space habitat's people other than Ardent and Gavia.  Ardent's behavior was likely acceptable since he seemed to be popular.  I get a bit of a Brave New World vibe with him.  Gavia seems to be more of an unpopular introvert and workaholic.  The latter may prove useful since she seems very focused on learning how to survive.  Ironically enough she might become popular with the natives while Ardent appears as a shiftless layabout.

As it happens one of my theories that the Praeses do all the work in the space society and leave the humans nothing to do except pursue pleasure. It would explain a lot about how Ardent and Gavia behaved when they first arrived. Ardent cheerfully ran around thinking of his own fun and not the people around him as that was how his society works, and Gavia decided the best way to find Ardent quickly was threats and pyrotechnics because she's never had any need to learn problem solving and conflict resolution.

That's one possibility, but I think that Praeses require some amount of work or something that passes for it.  It might not be all that different than George Jetson pushing a button all day.  If work was that much of a foreign concept to them they would have complained a lot more, but Ardent seemed to be mildly irritated with the inconvenience while Gavia didn't like the chore (and who would) and was probably concerned with all the busy work she has at home to do.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 08 Jun 2016, 08:50
Gavia has to learn a whole new skill set, and she's going to discover how intelligent and skilled our "primitive" ancestors had to be to survive.

The Jetsons meet the Flintstones!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtkGaFKs2rY
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 08 Jun 2016, 11:00
I am in that unhappy middle ground of not understanding most modern tech and not knowing how to do caveman level things.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 08 Jun 2016, 11:46
And Ardent's still beating himself up over it in spite of Alice's explanation.

I also think that there is a bit of blame being directed from him Alice's way too. He needn't bother; I get the impression that Alice blames herself for everything, including things that, for no sane reason imaginable, could she be responsible. I suspect that's what made Sedna leave her. She couldn't handle Alice's thundering conceit that, if only she was faster, smarter or more perceptive she would have foreseen and prevented some disaster.

Seems likely although I think Alice is expressing this to Ardent to make him feel better.  There really wasn't anything she could do since the Night Walker seeped in through a cabin instead of an open cave.  Short of sealing Gavia in an airtight box (which has problems of its own) I don't see what Alice could've done to prevent that.  What she really needs to be thinking over is why it didn't absorb Gavia's nanotech the first time.  Was it just scouting the area the first time or was it under someone's control?   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 08 Jun 2016, 20:40
Maybe the first time the Nightwalker backed off because it was afraid of an awake, alert Alice, or recognised she would interfere. And that's why it followed them and struck when Alice was fast asleep. Or maybe it was an awake and alert Gavia that prevented it from taking the nanotech the first time. The first time it tried to touch Gavia her response was to go: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!" and race into a nearby cave to hide. The second time, when Gavia was initially asleep, went much better for the Nightwalker.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 08 Jun 2016, 23:01
Or maybe the first encounter was just a 'scan'. Perhaps the Night Walker had to relay its readings back to its current operators and wait for instructions on what to do next. It is possible that it didn't have much in the way of 'smart' and had no real ability to change its behaviour unless new instructions were uploaded to it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 08 Jun 2016, 23:06
Maybe the first time the Nightwalker backed off because it was afraid of an awake, alert Alice, or recognised she would interfere. And that's why it followed them and struck when Alice was fast asleep. Or maybe it was an awake and alert Gavia that prevented it from taking the nanotech the first time. The first time it tried to touch Gavia her response was to go: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!" and race into a nearby cave to hide. The second time, when Gavia was initially asleep, went much better for the Nightwalker.

Perhaps, but what could Alice do even if she intervened?  She wasn't entirely convinced she would survive rescuing Gavia the last time.  And while it's possible that attacking Gavia while asleep would be the best way to avoid any countermeasures she might activate while conscious it could've attacked numerous other times while everyone was asleep, but didn't  The Night Walker emerges on moonlit nights so it's not dependent on a full moon.  Moreover, it attacked while Gavia was with two super powerful immortals which seems more risky.   

Now maybe the Night Walker has some preset program where it seeks out possible nanotechnology and then strikes on a full moon or maybe it was under the control of someone or something. 

Speculation is fun and I like to stake my claim on this crazy theory of mine before someone else does.  The nanotechnology Gavia had made her powerful, but not enough to be any match for Alice.  Perhaps this was by design.  While Gavia wholeheartedly embraces technological enhancement it might be possible some of what was implanted on her actually inhibited her natural abilities.  Maybe after years of experimentation the Praeses figured out how to duplicate the creation of people like Alice and Sedna, but needed a test subject, Gavia.  She could've been engineered from birth to be just like Alice and Sedna, but never know her true power because the nanotechnology inhibited the super strength.  This might explain how she could recover so quickly from her ordeal and seems to be a fast learner in survival skills.  What other purpose would the Praeses have for sending her?  They could have forbid her to go and it's likely that she would have heeded their decision, but they allowed her to pursue Ardent and then marooned her too.  Their scheme could be two fold.  They send Ardent to cause problems with his ability to upgrade technology and they send Gavia as their prototype super soldier.  Either by accident or design the Night Walker removes Gavia's inhibitors and she becomes stronger and invulnerable.  Now unless she has some kind of sleeper programming she's not likely to turn on Alice or Sedna, but she doesn't have to because if she's a successful copy of whatever process created the immortals then they could send hundreds of people designed as human weapons, deactivate their inhibitors, and overwhelm the few people who would object.  Moreover, these soldiers would be indoctrinated since birth to obey them so they would never have to fear a mutiny and once they subdued anyone who challenged their plans they would happily return to being enhanced humans without superpowers. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 08 Jun 2016, 23:44
The climate stuff is not necessarily indicative, considering how much the world changed, though if this was Earth I would expect most weather systems to remain basically the same.
I like most of your post a lot, but maybe this is contestable. Climate has changed radically and rapidly in the past, even without obvious external factors (Araguainha, Chicxulub, Deccan Traps etc). If you add into the mix the possibility of the technologies before the blink having caused climate change, and than the massive effects of the blink itself (vis ecological changes) then I submit all bets are off in the area of climate.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Loki on 09 Jun 2016, 11:28
BenRG: hold on, has it been established Sedna left her?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jun 2016, 12:03
Very few things about Alice are 'established'. All we know is that Sedna knows Alice well enough that the two of them tend to say identical things in unison and that Sedna is very, very tired of Alice's self-condemnation.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 09 Jun 2016, 14:56
Maybe the first time the Nightwalker backed off because it was afraid of an awake, alert Alice, or recognised she would interfere.

The Nightwalker is defnitely artificial, but not necessarily intelligent,. If it were intelligent (ie. sentient), then it would  kinda screw up Alice's narrative.
She says no AIs were left on earth. And Gavia believes AIs are impossible.  Alice has known of the Nightwalker for millennia.

If Alice thought the NW was sentient, she would have mentioned it by now.  I'm assuming not, and that it can't be afraid of anything. I think  it's  as self-aware as a Roomba.


EDIT: Fixed quote tags - Felix
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 09 Jun 2016, 15:01
Fridge Horror about the Nightwalker:

Nightwalker isn't self-aware, it's just a mechanism that seeks out nanotech, then absorbs it and sends a flare to the moon.  Okay, fine.

...;a week later...

...and dissipates on the wind!  Its job is done, and it's a ONE TIME JOB.  This ONLY makes sense if someone is coming in response to that flare.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 09 Jun 2016, 15:32
Well, yeah.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: mustang6172 on 09 Jun 2016, 18:53
Quote from: Jeph
Caveman and Space Girl, coming this fall on Syfy

Friggin' feminist knock-off of Prometheus and Bob. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1MGXhUxLg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 10 Jun 2016, 05:30
...Its job is done, and it's a ONE TIME JOB.
That's only true if you know its not reforming. After all it dissipated every day anyway. Maybe its still looking up at the moon each night?

So did Gavia's nanotech get parcelled off and blasted to the moon, or whereever, or was it broken up as an energy source, or is it hiding under leaves in the forest with the rest of the nightwalker components? And if the Nightwalker is still reforming every evening - maybe waiting for a response to its signal - is Gavia's Nanotech taking up a distinct role as part of it?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jun 2016, 09:01
Hmmm. Perhaps that is the Nightwalker's purpose? The ejection of any forbidden nanotech off the planet? That really doesn't make a lot of sense though, as it doesn't explain the Night Walker's long habit of staring at the moon, or why it didn't purge Ardent of his upgrade nanobots. More likely it had a function to send.. something to the moon. Gavia's nanotech gave it the boost it finally needed to complete it's mission, and after that it drifted away into it's component machines.


Quote from: Jeph
Caveman and Space Girl, coming this fall on Syfy

Friggin' feminist knock-off of Prometheus and Bob. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1MGXhUxLg)

Moderator Comment  Slamming on feminism is not appropriate, is unappreciated and will not be tolerated. If this comment was meant as a joke, it was a very poor one. If you were seriously using feminism as an insult and a slur, you should be reconsidering.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Jun 2016, 10:36
Strip is up!

Large birds that can be used as pack animals as well as lay eggs for sustenance.  Now that's progress! 

Not sure if Gavia is the one you want to send to help Ardent out.  She's physically able, but I'm not sure if she's really all that motivated. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 10 Jun 2016, 12:18
I do like the way the facial expression of the Struthios portrays - to me at least - a sort of dumb amiability. That to my mind is clever artwork.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 10 Jun 2016, 13:03
How is Ardent an idiot? He did what you told him to do!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Jun 2016, 13:16
How is Ardent an idiot? He did what you told him to do!

Yes, but he's reacting like she's going to bite his head off.  If she was really that dangerous Alice or Senda would be fetching the eggs. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jun 2016, 13:32
Coming from Alice, "Ardent is an idiot" is a general observation, not necessarily a specific comment on this event.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jun 2016, 13:36
Note to Ardent for future reference: When Alice or Sedna tell you to poke a large animal to get it to move, they're probably being sarcastic. That said, I'm not sure that the Struthi is being aggressive. For all we know, biting the head is an act of affection for their species!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jun 2016, 14:24
I would say sending Gavia to 'save' Ardent is sneakily brilliant. After the Punchinating (Punch Harder) they seem to be doing their best to avoid one another due to mutually blaming Ardent for Gavia losing her powers. And while fine is fine, he did set into motion the chain of events leading to it, hanging out with two sulking kids for a loooong trip is not going to be fun. Pushing the two of them together and letting them work it out maybe without making it seem that's what they are doing... Very clever.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Jun 2016, 14:31
I would say sending Gavia to 'save' Ardent is sneakily brilliant. After the Punchinating (Punch Harder) they seem to be doing their best to avoid one another due to mutually blaming Ardent for Gavia losing her powers. And while fine is fine, he did set into motion the chain of events leading to it, hanging out with two sulking kids for a loooong trip is not going to be fun. Pushing the two of them together and letting them work it out maybe without making it seem that's what they are doing... Very clever.

Except that Gaiva isn't sulking.  She's not overjoyed about what happened, but she seems to be throwing herself into learning how to survive rather than being all mopey and constantly sniping at Ardent.  An admirable approach really.  Perhaps Gavia might tell Ardent that she doesn't hate him, but she needs to focus on learning these skills so they can get back home as well as cope with her situation. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: pendrake on 10 Jun 2016, 14:46
The bird's benign face at "eating" Ardent's head is what makes the punchline work so laugh-out-loud well.   :-D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jun 2016, 14:49
She's still pointedly not talking to him. There's not much she can do to avoid him on the wagon. Until they hash things out, the silent/guilty treatment is not going to be fun for anyone.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Jun 2016, 15:00
She's still pointedly not talking to him. There's not much she can do to avoid him on the wagon. Until they hash things out, the silent/guilty treatment is not going to be fun for anyone.

Well it's not fun for Ardent and Alice seems to be blaming herself for what happened regardless.  Sedna, however, could care less and who knows she might actually like having a willing student.  All things considered Gavia could be reacting a lot worse to what happened so I really don't see why she should entertain Ardent's pleas for forgiveness.  I know it's been 22 days since she was in coma, but for her it's been a day or two since she's regained consciousness.  Personally, I'd be more upset with him for sulking instead of being productive. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Stoutfellow on 10 Jun 2016, 15:14
Obviously Ardent should have used a pokin' stick: http://www.alicegrove.com/post/99955503769/try-kicking-him (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/99955503769/try-kicking-him)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 10 Jun 2016, 16:01
I think at this stage Gavia will be in two minds about saving Ardent - Grab the egg and let the giant Bird have an Ardentworm for Breakfast  ;D


And yes, despite it all Ardent is still an idiot
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Stoutfellow on 10 Jun 2016, 16:33
And yes, despite it all Ardent is still an idiot

And what does that say about the two superhumans who assigned him this task?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 10 Jun 2016, 16:37
There  is that.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 10 Jun 2016, 19:42
I'm pretty sure that Struthi is trying to show affection, otherwise there would be a lot more blood and the immortals would be a lot more worried. Also, we know something else about the space society: they have dogs. I guess pets do exist on their society.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: anahata on 10 Jun 2016, 23:49
Yeah, apparently they have dogs with two legs, a beak and wings. It's not the first time Ardent has called a bird a dog. (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/101138633004/chickens-are-weird-dogs) even though that was a 'weird dog'
My conclusion is that where Ardent comes from, they don't have birds.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 11 Jun 2016, 00:53
Ardent has called a bird a ...  'weird dog'
I suggest that dogs are the only non-human living creatures Ardent has ever seen or heard of, and so dog is the only word in his vocabulary to describe them, the use of generic words like animal having died out.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 11 Jun 2016, 12:06
Ardent is one of the major food groups of all lifeforms on this planet.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: improvnerd on 12 Jun 2016, 16:27
I'm pretty sure that Struthi is trying to show affection,

As a general rule, coming between an mother animal and its young is going to bring out the worst in it. Even cows kill about 20 people a year in the US, and many of those are cases where a mother felt her calves were threatened.

Animals that are chill about their offspring being carried off tend to go extinct pretty fast.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 13 Jun 2016, 00:13
I'm pretty sure that Struthi is trying to show affection,

As a general rule, coming between an mother animal and its young is going to bring out the worst in it. Even cows kill about 20 people a year in the US, and many of those are cases where a mother felt her calves were threatened.

Animals that are chill about their offspring being carried off tend to go extinct pretty fast.

It may actually be more straightforward than this. I also tend to bite the heads off people that poke me while I'm trying to sleep. Perhaps the dog is more literal minded than most.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 13 Jun 2016, 00:58
Animals that are chill about their offspring being carried off tend to go extinct pretty fast.
Different with domesticated animals, and even plants. Domestication is a very effective evolutionary strategy. How many wild Aurochs are roaming the fields of Europe?

We only saw the wild Struthis in the dark, but I reckon the female had spots which we don't see on this one, so I suspect these are a long domesticated strain. The domesticated chicken has been evolved for continuous egg production, no reason why the domesticates Struthi shouldn't be the same, whereas the wild ones do have a nesting season: http://www.alicegrove.com/post/113972900304/never-mind-the-giant-smoke-creature-outside-its
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jun 2016, 01:22
Humans can ride ostriches and the Struthis are much bigger. Anyone remember a 1980s-era arcade game called 'Joust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joust_(video_game))'? I'm thinking of a future scene where an armourd Alice is charging into battle against the baddie of the chapter on the back of a riding Struthi.

Interesting thought: If this is a domesticated strain, then are there many subvariants? Maybe a breed that has thick winter plumage that it sheds in spring and can be used for clothing, insulation and padding? A specific meat strain? A strain known for laying large numbers of non-viable eggs (again, for food)?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 13 Jun 2016, 13:42
The moon it was then, so much for my orbit theory...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 13 Jun 2016, 13:53
Sedna is not responsible for any moon craters, but only 'cause she never found a big enough gun.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jun 2016, 14:25
It takes guts to go back to something so utterly traumatic like that. It's a credit to Gavia's strength that she knows that she has to for the greater good of her friends and everything she cares about. I'm not surprised that there wasn't any 'leak back' from the Night Walker into her mind though. I'm sure it was totally non-sentient and just mindlessly carrying out a pre-loaded instruction set. Simply put, there were no thoughts about which she could be aware.

Why am I not surprised that Alice is responsible for a crater on the Moon? Maybe she's responsible for the new lava plain maria/impact basin? It would be excessive but so her.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2016, 14:34
Sedna is not responsible for any moon craters, but only 'cause she never found a big enough gun.
Alice doesn't need a gun.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Jun 2016, 14:36
Alice was the gun.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 13 Jun 2016, 14:43
Btw, does the Night Walker going after Gavia and not Alice mean my crazy theory that she's naturally superpowered as opposed to nano the likelier option now?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 13 Jun 2016, 14:44
And it was a shot in the dark  ;D


It looks like Ardent was Lunch
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 13 Jun 2016, 15:07
Btw, does the Night Walker going after Gavia and not Alice mean my crazy theory that she's naturally superpowered as opposed to nano the likelier option now?

If Alice had any nanotechnology I think it would have attacked her centuries ago.  I'm still not dissuaded from my own theory that Gavia may be a genetic copy of whatever process created Alice and Sedna and that her nanotechnology was actually inhibiting her supernatural abilities.  It's still early into this chapter, but Gavia has physically recovered faster than any baseline human could and while she may just be concentrating on learning survival skills as means of coping with her loss she seems to be an uncannily quick study. 

I'm glad we're getting some exposition and that Alice was sensitive enough to wait a day before asking. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 14 Jun 2016, 00:27
And it was a shot in the dark  ;D

A shot in the duck, surely?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Truec on 14 Jun 2016, 00:51
Hmmm... blonde, capable of quickly and easily putting down opposition, doesn't want to kill people, has poorly explained powers, is responsible for the creation of a crater on the moon, massive guilt complex...

That's one mystery solved.  Alice is Vash the Stampede.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 14 Jun 2016, 03:49
Possibly, but Vash was a pacifist adverse to killing and when push comes to shove Alice can be a deadly serious opponent. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Jun 2016, 04:17
Doesn't mean she wants to be any more than Himura Kenshin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himura_Kenshin) wanted to be (or revert to being, at any rate) Hitokiri Battōsai.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 14 Jun 2016, 04:47
I would agree that Alice is more like Himura Kenshin than Vash who would go to insane lengths to avoid killing people. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Tova on 15 Jun 2016, 05:41
I just wanted to observe for the record that overcooking scrambled eggs is what is truly gross.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 15 Jun 2016, 06:59

Why am I not surprised that Alice is responsible for a crater on the Moon? Maybe she's responsible for the new lava plain maria/impact basin? It would be excessive but so her.

One a these days, Alice.....to the MOOOOOON!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 15 Jun 2016, 07:53
Scrambled eggs are good, but it's still the least interesting way to cook eggs.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: hedgie on 15 Jun 2016, 08:03
Eggs are EVIL I tell you!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 15 Jun 2016, 16:00
Scrambled eggs are good, but it's still the least interesting way to cook eggs.

I prefer them in a Pancake
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Tova on 15 Jun 2016, 16:43
Scrambled eggs are good, but it's still the least interesting way to cook eggs.

Maybe you've never had really good scambled eggs.

As far as eggs are concerned, IMO quality of execution >> type. I'd rather have superbly prepared eggs of any type you care to name than mediocre preparation of whatever you think is the most interesting way to cook them.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 15 Jun 2016, 20:54
Well Gavia is a beginner and they are limited to what's available for consumption so I wouldn't expect anything too complicated. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Truec on 15 Jun 2016, 21:34
Scrambled eggs are good, but it's still the least interesting way to cook eggs.

If we're talking about interesting, I'd say hard-boiled are the least interesting.  One of my favorite tasting eggs, but it doesn't really get less interesting than "boil, peel, salt, serve".
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: hedgie on 15 Jun 2016, 21:49
Agreed.  If I'm masochistic to want one on a salad, I lightly poach it rather than hard boil.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Tova on 15 Jun 2016, 23:26
Hoo boy. Good salad with lightly coddled eggs are so yummy ajhdsdhasadssd
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 16 Jun 2016, 04:24
Well Gavia is a beginner and they are limited to what's available for consumption so I wouldn't expect anything too complicated.
And it's very practical, boiling eggs requires more water, something they must look to save, for it's being a desert and everything.

Given they are on a multi-month expedition, what would they have on board? Hardtacks obviously, maybe some pemmican and or cured meat, some pickles maybe, maybe even dehydrated potatoes, flour, refined sugar if that's around. Vegetable oil or butter salted to death. Salt, so much salt you wouldn't believe. On utencils: some knives and various spoons obviously, a skillet, some pots,  maybe a dutch oven. Possibly a wooden bin for sourdough, because that's where poeple used to keep their yeast and lactobacillum - on the bin.

I have to say they look relatively light packed for their trip. A specially worrisome is that they seem to have only one barrel on board, so no redundancy for water.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 16 Jun 2016, 06:08
It looks like a big wagon so quite possibly it has additional storage under the floor.  Moreover, Alice said they were a few days from the next settlement so they can get additional supplies there. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 16 Jun 2016, 12:08
No strip for the other half of the week. 

Happy Birthday Jeph and best of luck moving. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Truec on 16 Jun 2016, 19:39
Treatise on supplies

Nonsense!  I've played enough Oregon Trail to know that you just need a rifle, a backup rifle in case your first one gets dropped in a river, gunpowder, and enough bullets to kill everything on four legs until you reach your destination.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 16 Jun 2016, 22:40
Not to mention the Hatchet and Knife.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 17 Jun 2016, 08:35
Not to mention the Hatchet and Knife.
And some other carpentry tools too, for wagon repairs. Speaking of wagon repairs and Oregon Trail: spare wheels or at the very least spare hubs and spare felloes and spokes. Also, lard for the hubs, tar, pith, also useful for caulking. Really a whole plethora of supplies. And clothes.

The main contents of their wagon are:

I assume the wooden crate must be their pantry, and the locked compartment would be where the tools and spares would be kept. Still, seems they are running low on supplies.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 17 Jun 2016, 14:03
Why when Ardent touched the wagon did it not turn into a Ferrari? an 18-wheeler? a Stagecoach at least?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 17 Jun 2016, 15:26
Ardent's powers have limitations.  If Sedna had a restored Model T truck touching it might upgrade it into an F-150 or possibly the Jetson's bubble car, but she has a bird drawn wagon. 

Ardent's powers will come in handy when they meet the archaeophiles.  If they've recovered and moderately restored a space shuttle then touching it will be his and Gavia's ticket home. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 17 Jun 2016, 16:30
having reviewed:
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/128111939049/alternate-lines-for-ardent-in-panel-3-does-she
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/128611572949/seconds-later-ardent-was-decapitated-by-a
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/128816812789/a-nice-birb

Spring (spring): no
Scissors (lever): no
Seesaw (lever): no
Eggbeater (wheel/axle): no
Wind up bird: (spring + wheel/axle + levers): yes
Pump: (wheel/axle + levers + motor(etc) ): yes

Cart (wheel/axle + lever): apparently no

So is it complexity that's the factor? or is it useful management of stored energy? or is intent involved (as Alice was musing a couple of strips later)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 17 Jun 2016, 20:22
I would suggest it has to be some form of working mechanical device such as the Pump or the Wind Up Bird.  I wonder what would have happened if Artent had touched the Wind Turbine
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 18 Jun 2016, 05:01
I wonder what would have happened if Artent had touched the Wind Turbine

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 18 Jun 2016, 14:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpQQ7UZ7brA
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 20 Jun 2016, 13:16
Interesting...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 20 Jun 2016, 13:17
NEW COMIC!

We've learned several important things:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: improvnerd on 20 Jun 2016, 13:51
Also might explain why people didn't think there were enough provisions for everyone in the cart...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 20 Jun 2016, 14:06
It's a good look on Gavia. Also Sedna seems to have taken her under her wing.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 20 Jun 2016, 14:57
Well, she's not completely helpless after all.

And it looks like Sedna's got a new protege.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Welu on 20 Jun 2016, 15:14
Huh, neat.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: SubaruStephen on 20 Jun 2016, 16:23
Sweet! Insta-Tan!

Summer's here, I need it, it sucks being "baseline"

*goes outside, bursts into flames like a vampire*
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jheartney on 20 Jun 2016, 16:26
New fan theory (feel free to flame me if somebody's already thought of this): *

Sedna is 5000 year old May, and Alice is 5000 year old Bubbles.

Both have gone through multiple chassis, and what they have now is a kind of "living android" body. Looks human, but is nearly indestructible; lasts indefinitely, and (in the case of Sedna) has a photosynthesis plug-in. May/Sedna never lost her interest in weapons systems, and continues to display the ironic and independent personality she always had. Bubbles/Alice is haunted by her military past, but continues to feel it's her role to look after Earth's humans.

Bubbles never cared much for May, though May used to fangirl over Bubbles a bit. Perhaps thousands of years of rejection have left May angry (thus the shootout when Bubbles/Alice showed up with the twins). They may hate each other, but then if you have someone who's been with you on your life journey for literal millennia, you'd figure out how to deal with them.

Part of what sent me on this line of speculation is Sedna's speech patterns. Imagine a slightly matured May, and she'd sound like Sedna. Alice has the formality and seriousness of Bubbles, further tempered by whatever massacres she perpetrated before the Blink, and by the many years of guilt which followed.

* Yes, I know Word of Jeph is the two comics do not take place in the same universe. That's what they thought about Asimov till he decided to tie it all together at the end.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 20 Jun 2016, 16:42
So then, are Ardent and Gavia reincarnations of Clinton and Claire?  :-D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: katsmeat on 20 Jun 2016, 17:01
So "baseline" has the same meaning as Muggle in another fictional universe.

Probably with the same undertones of condescension.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: mikmaxs on 20 Jun 2016, 20:52
It's a good thing I'm caught up, because if I popped in for the next comic after this one and hadn't read for a month or two, I'd be wondering who this new chick was and where Gavia went.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 21 Jun 2016, 03:34
It's a good look on Gavia. Also Sedna seems to have taken her under her wing.

I still think Gavia is more similar to Alice than both of them would admit, but right now the latter seems to be trying to raise Ardent's spirits so the only person available is Sedna.  Of course buddy comedies are built on odd couples so if Alice has to be paired with Ardent then it make sense to pair Gavia with Sedna.  Moreover, Sedna might like having someone around that has many of Alice's same qualities, but none of the negative aspects that makes her hate her.  Considering that look Sedna has I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't a little attracted to her. 

It's nice of her to give Gavia a hat, but I have to wonder if she has some other clothes to lend.  Gavia has been walking around in what amounts to underwear these last few strips.  Remarkably enough she's not mortified by this, but then again Ardent arrived wearing just red boxer briefs.  Perhaps this is an indication that the the space dwellers have evolved beyond modesty and only wear clothing when necessary. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 21 Jun 2016, 03:42
I've been thinking of Sedna's ability to photosynthesise. Does this indicate that she was a super-soldier created by the bioengineering faction whilst Alice was the product of the AI/Synthetic faction? That raises the possibility that Alice is a either an android or a massively-augmented human (augmented to the point where her still being a biological life-form is debatable).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 21 Jun 2016, 04:45
I've been thinking of Sedna's ability to photosynthesise. Does this indicate that she was a super-soldier created by the bioengineering faction whilst Alice was the product of the AI/Synthetic faction? That raises the possibility that Alice is a either an android or a massively-augmented human (augmented to the point where her still being a biological life-form is debatable).

It could just be a minor variation of Alice's ability to grow armor.  I do wonder if Sedna's reference to photosynthesis is an indication that she and Gavia are human and plant hybrids.  If the habitat rulers are trees then it makes sense that their children would be some variation of this. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 21 Jun 2016, 09:47
The photosynthesis is cute, but except in starvation-stasis mode, not likely to be replacing food. "I cannae change the laws of physics" -- Scotty

Even if you assume Sedna is always naked (well, she doesn't mind that), covered in chlorophyll, and can expose half her surface area fully to the sun during all daylight hours, photosynthesis is not a big enough energy source to keep a normal person going. Randall Munro's calculations xkcd on photosynthesizing cows (http://what-if.xkcd.com/17/) and Jeremy Miles' calculations Jeremy Miles on Quora on photosynthesis (https://www.quora.com/Why-havent-humans-developed-the-ability-to-photosynthesize-And-more-importantly-why-dont-we/answer/Jeremy-Miles?srid=pMeT) both agree that a moving, warm-blooded creature needs 50 to 5000 times as much energy as it could photosynthesize with full chlorophyll coverage. 

Even if the photosynthesis were perfect energy conversion(say, ideal solar cells) instead of its usual 3-6% efficiency, that would only make it ~20 times better, making it cover between .4% and 40% of a human's daily energy needs (depending on stuff). Again, assuming that human was always naked and sunbathing. Plants only get away with it because they don't need to heat themselves or to move around.

If Sedna photosynthesizes, it's probably only useful when she's in emergency stasis.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: DSL on 21 Jun 2016, 09:51
Random thoughts from today's comic:

Given the political fumduckery that bubbled uo in the states over trans people and bathrooms, I wonder what the immediate social ramifications today would be from the surfacing of the ability to change one's skin color with an act of will. Most of my circle would be anywhere from enthusiastic to chill about it, for reasons philosophical and practical, but I know some twitchy bigots who would be even twitchier about it -- a prospect both entertaining (because I know them) and terrifying (also because I know them).

"If you're wondering how she poops and pees, and other science facts (la LA la) ..." ... The Loon has gone two? Three? weeks without eating or apparently metabolizing. Not ruling out the possibility of miracle-tech clothing or even body mods (she's not BASELINE. GEEZ.), but  ... no input. no output.

Sedna days "preachin' to the choir" some few thousand years after this part of the globe, at least, has seen either preachin' or choirs. Was there any evidence of religion in Alice-town, other than a casual reference to Alice as a "witch"? Some superstition, maybe, directed at Ardent. Made me wonder, though, about words in use today, long after the concepts that birthed them have faded. And now that I've set myself up, I csn;t think of any examples ... Anyone else?

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 21 Jun 2016, 10:30
Sedna days "preachin' to the choir" some few thousand years after this part of the globe, at least, has seen either preachin' or choirs.
Well, I hear/read them speaking early 21st century north american dialect, which is already significantly different to the dialect of the same region 100 years before (read old newspaper reports in something like the NYT on line archive to get a feel for how much the language has changed). Given a few thousand years language would drift wildly. (See various threads round the forum for contemporary dialect variations). So clearly what we are reading is a translation of what would be said into our contemporary speech. We could make the same assumption for metaphors...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 21 Jun 2016, 11:32
photosynthesis is not a big enough energy source to keep a normal person going.
What could possibly have led you to the conclusion that Sedna is in any way normal?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 21 Jun 2016, 11:40
OK, so Sedna isn't normal. If she has the same kinds of enhancements that Alice has then I would assume she requires significantly more energy than a baseline human. So unless her photosynthesizers are dramatically more efficient than chlorophyll, she can't survive on sunlight alone.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 21 Jun 2016, 11:46
Or perhaps whatever tech they are made up actually operates more efficiently than a human body.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: MooskiNet on 21 Jun 2016, 12:25
We just watched a (quasi) human who has been stripped of the nanotech that allowed them to fly, shield themselves and fling fireballs change the melanin content of their skin visibly and instantly through an act of will.

Given that, it seems making 21st-century estimates of someone else's ability to use photosynthesis as an energy source would be right out, yeah?

Edit: spellin
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: mr.jacob on 21 Jun 2016, 13:49
Oh god imagine the blackface college parties up in space
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 21 Jun 2016, 14:22
Random thoughts from today's comic:

Given the political fumduckery that bubbled uo in the states over trans people and bathrooms, I wonder what the immediate social ramifications today would be from the surfacing of the ability to change one's skin color with an act of will. Most of my circle would be anywhere from enthusiastic to chill about it, for reasons philosophical and practical, but I know some twitchy bigots who would be even twitchier about it -- a prospect both entertaining (because I know them) and terrifying (also because I know them).

So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth.  I do wonder what the Praesides have told the other space dwellers about Earth since it likely affected Ardent and Gavia's perception.  Gavia said they left the Earth to live in freedom and harmony in the forest.  Perhaps the Praesides also told the space dwellers of mankind's previous bigotry towards people of different races, genders, sexuality, etc. and even though that might not be true anymore since Earth does resemble the way it did around the middle 19th century which wasn't the most enlightened of times it's reasonable to conclude that they might be on the same level of social evolution to an outside observer who doesn't have all the facts. 

"If you're wondering how she poops and pees, and other science facts (la LA la) ..." ... The Loon has gone two? Three? weeks without eating or apparently metabolizing. Not ruling out the possibility of miracle-tech clothing or even body mods (she's not BASELINE. GEEZ.), but  ... no input. no output.

Considering everything that Ardent and Gavia's bodies can do without technological enhancements it's difficult to rule out anything.  I'm assuming that the fabric in their clothes is technologically advanced, but free of nanotechnology otherwise the Night Walker would have absorbed that too.  As such it's probably stain resistant and form fitting, but that's about it.  I believe that Gavia still has a digestive system similar to baseline humans since Alice called her an asshole and she took it as an insult.  If that part of the body was no longer in use then it really wouldn't have an impact.  It would be like calling someone an appendix or tonsil.  It's not conclusive proof, but until proven otherwise I assume she gets the call of nature too.     

Sedna days "preachin' to the choir" some few thousand years after this part of the globe, at least, has seen either preachin' or choirs. Was there any evidence of religion in Alice-town, other than a casual reference to Alice as a "witch"? Some superstition, maybe, directed at Ardent. Made me wonder, though, about words in use today, long after the concepts that birthed them have faded. And now that I've set myself up, I csn;t think of any examples ... Anyone else?

I agree with JimC on this.  The comic is translated into a language we can understand, but it's possible that Sedna likes to use idioms from the time before the blink.  While it might not be as prevalent I could imagine religious groups evolving out of the old ones and possibly new ones emerging over 5 millennia.  There's a lot we don't know about the world beyond Alice's town which seems free of a lot of the old prejudices, but that's likely due to Alice's will. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: SubaruStephen on 21 Jun 2016, 16:50
So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth.

When everyone can change their skin color at will, it just isn't worth the effort even thinking about superiority/inferiority of different races, because everyone is malleable now and can be whatever color they feel like being at that particular moment.  (At least in Spaaaace!)

There's a lot we don't know about the world beyond Alice's town which seems free of a lot of the old prejudices, but that's likely due to Alice's will. 

Since Alices' town is probably not the only human settlement left on earth, I'm willing to bet that there are many places that still hold onto old prejudices. In Alicetown, Ardent being blue was met with curiosity, but some other place he might have been met with outright hostility as not being "Pure Human" or having too much hair, or not being human at all because he has a tail,  or some other sh*t.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 21 Jun 2016, 22:05
because he has a delightful tail, or some other shit.
Fixed that for ya
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 22 Jun 2016, 02:54
it seems making 21st-century estimates of someone else's ability to use photosynthesis as an energy source would be right out, yeah?
Estimates of the efficiency are essentially meaningless, agreed, but estimates of the amount of energy available from sunlight falling on a given surface area are reasonably valid. And we can still happily speculate about stasis, and all the rest of it. The sums suggest that Sedna cannot possibly get enough energy from photosynthesis to sustain normal movement and metabolism, and the text suggests that its an emergency only option.  Not incompatible perhaps?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Morituri on 22 Jun 2016, 12:09
It could support movement at intervals.  I think she could be awake (maybe with a slower brain so having perception of time reduced) at normal cycles, but might be able to store enough energy from sunlight for about two hours of normal activity per day.  That's enough, eventually, to get to someplace where there are adequate supplies that you can stop doing it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: KOK on 22 Jun 2016, 12:10
New fan theory

Sedna is 5000 year old May, and Alice is 5000 year old Bubbles.

This actually makes a surprising amount of sense.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 22 Jun 2016, 14:30
New fan theory

Sedna is 5000 year old May, and Alice is 5000 year old Bubbles.

This actually makes a surprising amount of sense.

I like it as a metaphor, like "All men are sons of Adam". As a literal theory, it's pretty hard to match to the facts.
1. The Blink removed all machines higher-tech than a pump, so how would Alice and Sedna be around if they were machines?
2. The Praesides say that AI isn't possible, and Alice disagrees, but says that any AIs on Earth vanished in the Blink. So Alice and Sedna can't be that. (Unless she's lying)
3. May and Momo don't sleep. But Alice and Sedna do. And they're not just faking it, or they would have noticed Gavia's abduction.

Alice and Sedna show every sign of being from the "enhanced biology" faction of the Pre-Blink society.

But yeah, personality-wise, they do bear a little resemblance to Bubbles and May.

P.S. I think the Praesides are also enhanced biology, as are Ardent and Gavia. There are no AI's left around, except for  (I think) the big one that caused the Blink and eliminated all its rivals and creators, to remove competition.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: DSL on 22 Jun 2016, 18:23
Random thoughts from today's comic:

Given the political fumduckery that bubbled uo in the states over trans people and bathrooms, I wonder what the immediate social ramifications today would be....

So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth ...

I was wondering about today.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 22 Jun 2016, 20:31
Random thoughts from today's comic:

Given the political fumduckery that bubbled uo in the states over trans people and bathrooms, I wonder what the immediate social ramifications today would be....

So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth ...

I was wondering about today.

I could see a lot of people taking advantage of such an ability.  Racial profiling would become very difficult and while it would certainly be convenient as well as fun to get one over on racists the novelty would wear off when you couldn't be certain if people were being nice or polite to you because of your skin color as well as being too afraid to revert back to your default skin color to find out for sure.   

In addition to how we perceive race there is also a matter of what we think is attractive based on societal norms.  I wonder how many think Gavia is now more attractive since she lost her red eyes, slicked back hair, and ghostly white pallor.  Even though this story takes 5000 years into the future I wouldn't be surprised if Earth dwellers find her attractive.  We now know she had the ability to make herself look more conventional at any time, but chose to define herself with technology without any concern for appearance.  Even in her current state she's very utilitarian which is one of the reasons I like her so much.     
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 25 Jun 2016, 08:49
Roll on little weird dogs, roll on, roll on...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 25 Jun 2016, 08:55
They're playing Oregon Trail! Watch out for the dysentery...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 25 Jun 2016, 08:59
"The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say!
"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 25 Jun 2016, 09:09
So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth.

When everyone can change their skin color at will, it just isn't worth the effort even thinking about superiority/inferiority of different races,

Seems to me that if you have a small town with radically different skin tones evident, and no international travel, then it must be the case that there is at best very limited mixing between different racial groups.

And it does seem rather naive to think that variable skin tone would mean no identification of racial groups.  I once had to deal with email content filtering at my place of work, and it was considered necessary for us to filter out racist material, jokes and the like. It was quite evident that the most prolific passers on of offensive jokes were people of Indian extraction forwarding racist jokes about folk of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin and vice versa. Often the same jokes with the roles reversed...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: KOK on 25 Jun 2016, 10:31
"The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say!
"

How long until they switch to Frodo's version?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 25 Jun 2016, 11:28
How many times did Ardent get eaten over those two days?

PLACE YOUR BETS NOW.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 25 Jun 2016, 11:53
So far it seems that there is no skin based prejudiced 5000 years into the future even on Earth.

When everyone can change their skin color at will, it just isn't worth the effort even thinking about superiority/inferiority of different races,

Seems to me that if you have a small town with radically different skin tones evident, and no international travel, then it must be the case that there is at best very limited mixing between different racial groups.

And it does seem rather naive to think that variable skin tone would mean no identification of racial groups.  I once had to deal with email content filtering at my place of work, and it was considered necessary for us to filter out racist material, jokes and the like. It was quite evident that the most prolific passers on of offensive jokes were people of Indian extraction forwarding racist jokes about folk of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin and vice versa. Often the same jokes with the roles reversed...

Perhaps, but society might have been racially mixed on account of catastrophic war.  It would be very plausible for massive migration into refugee camps and then once the blink happened those camps might have turned into the first post war settlements and towns.  As such the old differences between the various races would likely become irrelevant.  That being said there could be the usual mistrust of foreigners and people who look radically different like Ardent.  However, he's traveling with 2 former super soldiers so I don't think he'll have a problem with any neo neo nazis. 

According to Sedna they were 3 days away from the nearest settlement after Gavia woke up and now 2 days have passed so they should be arriving at the next settlement soon. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 25 Jun 2016, 12:53
How many times did Ardent get eaten over those two days?

PLACE YOUR BETS NOW.

None.  But he died of dysentery three times.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Wildroses on 25 Jun 2016, 20:26
I just loved the night time art on the latest strip.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 26 Jun 2016, 12:48
How many times did Ardent get eaten over those two days?

PLACE YOUR BETS NOW.

None.  But he died of dysentery three times.

And they had a fire in the wagon and lost all their clothes and most of their food, they broke their wagon wheels, axles and lips six times in 10 mile stretch of trail and finally they lost two Struthios while fording a river 1.5 foot deep and after that a thief took the rest.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 26 Jun 2016, 13:10
Happy trails
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 27 Jun 2016, 03:44
How many times did Ardent get eaten over those two days?

PLACE YOUR BETS NOW.

None.  But he died of dysentery three times.

And they had a fire in the wagon and lost all their clothes and most of their food, they broke their wagon wheels, axles and lips six times in 10 mile stretch of trail and finally they lost two Struthios while fording a river 1.5 foot deep and after that a thief took the rest.

And I'm sure Alice will blame herself for it all.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: DSL on 27 Jun 2016, 09:30
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
To where, we're just not knowin'
Keep them horse-birds rollin'
Blue-hide!

Keep your eyeballs in your sockets
And maybe we'll find rockets
To where? Find 'em; we'll decide.

And maybe then your sister
will see if Praeses missed her
while she changes color of
her hide!

Losr your tail
grow it back
Touch a gadget
turn it on!
Shoot the moon
movin' on!
Blue-hide!


The loon, she lost her nano
the girls are out of ammo
We got a crazy plan, so
we ride!

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: DSL on 27 Jun 2016, 09:32
... and it looks like they're just about where they're going.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 27 Jun 2016, 09:46
For some reason, I expect them to be greeted by a laser-toting Robbie the Robot wannabe and be told that the place is called 'Megaton'. :lol:

So long as there isn't a crazy hardware store owner who wants Gavia and Ardent to help her write a book...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 27 Jun 2016, 10:42
Please. Come. Inside. The. Bomb. Is. Perfectly. Safe.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 27 Jun 2016, 11:06
Wait - the town is inside an open-pit mine? Granted, it's just a little tiny open-pit mine, but still, that's a bit like living inside a little tiny toxic waste dump. They aren't renowned for being especially conducive to healthy living.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 27 Jun 2016, 11:18
Lots and LOTS of technology easily distinguishable from magic for Ardent to touch!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 Jun 2016, 11:26
Wait - the town is inside an open-pit mine? ... aren't renowned for being especially conducive to healthy living.
Maybe so, but you must admit it makes a great image...
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Roborat on 27 Jun 2016, 11:36
So, how are they digging that hole, and how are they removing the excavated dirt?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 27 Jun 2016, 11:47
Wait - the town is inside an open-pit mine? Granted, it's just a little tiny open-pit mine, but still, that's a bit like living inside a little tiny toxic waste dump. They aren't renowned for being especially conducive to healthy living.

If it were a mine then yes, but this appears to be where the archaeolphiles Sedna mentioned lived.  As such they're there to dig out ancient technology not minerals and more than likely it frequently moves to a different location once they dig down as far as they can.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: zeimusu on 27 Jun 2016, 12:57
More Ghibli references? Pejite unearthing the warrior, or the robots of Laputa. There are already something very like horseclaws and a daidarabotchi from mononoke.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 Jun 2016, 13:56
So is that a pile of random rocks at 1 o'clock or a giant dismembered robot?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Kugai on 27 Jun 2016, 14:05
Looks like a Mech of some sort, though it seems awfully blocky - Unless it's what's left of a GitS style 'Think Tank'

It shall be interesting to see what the Archaeologists have dug up at that site.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 27 Jun 2016, 14:13
Looks like a Mech of some sort, though it seems awfully blocky - Unless it's what's left of a GitS style 'Think Tank'

It shall be interesting to see what the Archaeologists have dug up at that site.

Probably a mech since all the AIs disappeared.  Looks too small to be mobile suit or mega deus. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 27 Jun 2016, 14:19
Looks like a Mech of some sort, though it seems awfully blocky - Unless it's what's left of a GitS style 'Think Tank'

It shall be interesting to see what the Archaeologists have dug up at that site.
Speaking of blocky, Ardent seems to have some sort of color space conversion artefacts or something on his face.

About the site, I have a feeling this will be not so much about the site itself but how Sedna interacts with people who know her, to act as a contract to what we have seen about Alice and her town.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 27 Jun 2016, 23:38
Wait - the town is inside an open-pit mine? Granted, it's just a little tiny open-pit mine, but still, that's a bit like living inside a little tiny toxic waste dump. They aren't renowned for being especially conducive to healthy living.

If it were a mine then yes, but this appears to be where the archaeolphiles Sedna mentioned lived.  As such they're there to dig out ancient technology not minerals and more than likely it frequently moves to a different location once they dig down as far as they can.

That is not how you archeology.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 27 Jun 2016, 23:52
If it were a mine then yes, but this appears to be where the archaeolphiles Sedna mentioned lived.  As such they're there to dig out ancient technology not minerals and more than likely it frequently moves to a different location once they dig down as far as they can.

That is not how you archeology.

It's how this community is doing it. This isn't about forensic exploration, it's about digging up and resurrecting as much tech as they can as quickly as they can!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 28 Jun 2016, 00:06
They presumably know exactly what they are looking for. You can't just dig down and hope to find something. There's something down there and they want it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 28 Jun 2016, 01:12
I can't see the latest comic; I also can't see about half the archive comics.  I'm very likely the only person here with this problem.  The reason is that I use IPv6, and access to Tumblr images by IPv6 is broken (https://www.sixxs.net/forum/?msg=general-14752409).

I had to look at it on my phone instead.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jheartney on 28 Jun 2016, 20:21
Nitpick: Shouldn't Gavia be able to see the big honking water tower? She claims not to see anything.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Channelore HellicottAtham on 29 Jun 2016, 01:08
Love that Gavia's hair continues to grow, it's almost a yardstick for her evolution from entitled, life-inexperienced, and possibly quite shallow spacegirl to a more lively and alive young woman who actually touches and engages with the living world around her (as opposed to having nanotech do her walking, dirty work, her everything for her).

The tan is pretty cute, too.  :-)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 29 Jun 2016, 04:49
Love that Gavia's hair continues to grow, it's almost a yardstick for her evolution from entitled, life-inexperienced, and possibly quite shallow spacegirl to a more lively and alive young woman who actually touches and engages with the living world around her (as opposed to having nanotech do her walking, dirty work, her everything for her).

The tan is pretty cute, too.  :-)

I'll agree with the life-inexperienced, but she's really as entitled as anyone who is born into a world where genes are augmented possibly at conception and life is free of many of the problems humans have to deal with.  I cannot begrudge her for being born into that especially when there seems to be rules about cultural contamination which keeps the space dwellers and planet dwellers separate.  It's not like she wanted to go there anyway.   Moreover, she only knows what the Praesides have told her and their version is probably not all that honest.  As for being shallow she doesn't seem to put much value on appearance since she's more upset with the loss of her abilities instead of how she looks and I think she truly believes that technological modification is the highest form of evolution and not just a means to avoid hard work.  Perhaps she was such a workaholic (or whatever counts as such on the space habitat) that she never had any friends.  She's not whining about building fires or cooking breakfast so perhaps she considered her nanotechnology a means to accomplish more with her time which isn't all that different than contemporary people using appliances for sake of convenience.  She certainly has made the most of her situation which is more than I can say for people living in the 21st century who lose their wifi connection for more than an hour.  Ironically she may enjoy her time on Earth more than Ardent, but that remains to be seen.     
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 29 Jun 2016, 11:21
Poll: Sedna will be...

A) Greeted with open arms. "Hello fellow archaeophile, can you help us dig again? we made much better progress when you were here"

B) Fought tooth and nail until the diggers succumb. "Dammit you stole all the guns we dug up last time, you're back to take more of our stuff?"

C) Welcomed but Alice and the rest of the crew will be shunned. "You brought Her back? and not just one, but TWO non-baseline non-earthborns?"

D) Other?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 29 Jun 2016, 12:42
D) Something freaky happens - Sedna passes Alice and the two Spacebourne off as her wife and kids. For some reason this is accepted without question. When Gavia queries Sedna about this, she mutters something about "in their field, they're quite smart" and "tunnel vision".
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 29 Jun 2016, 15:39
E) "Hey, we need workers! How much would you ask to sell us the blue boy?"

I doubt Jeph will go there. Just be glad I'm not writing this.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 29 Jun 2016, 21:03
Sure, it's a different town than the one we've seen, but what gives any indication that slavery exists in this world?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 29 Jun 2016, 21:37
Even a passing acquaintance with human history?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: lawoot on 29 Jun 2016, 21:55
Wait - the town is inside an open-pit mine? Granted, it's just a little tiny open-pit mine, but still, that's a bit like living inside a little tiny toxic waste dump. They aren't renowned for being especially conducive to healthy living.

If it were a mine then yes, but this appears to be where the archaeolphiles Sedna mentioned lived.  As such they're there to dig out ancient technology not minerals and more than likely it frequently moves to a different location once they dig down as far as they can.

That is not how you archeology.

Maybe they are trying to keep the dig hidden from prying eyes, although...

Nitpick: Shouldn't Gavia be able to see the big honking water tower? She claims not to see anything.
...would seem like a huge "Here we are! Come raid us!" sign.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jheartney on 29 Jun 2016, 22:58
Maybe they are trying to keep the dig hidden from prying eyes, although...

Nitpick: Shouldn't Gavia be able to see the big honking water tower? She claims not to see anything.
...would seem like a huge "Here we are! Come raid us!" sign.

If they've had much success unearthing working weapons (a la Sedna), they might be in a good position to defend themselves regardless.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: freeman on 30 Jun 2016, 03:57
Sure, it's a different town than the one we've seen, but what gives any indication that slavery exists in this world?

This reminds me of: I've been wondering for a while what sort of government exists in this world. They seem to be living in relatively complex society so it would be hard to believe it would be just town-to-town basis.

Also, assuming the society has been on lower state previously and 5000 years have passed, the English language in north America should have split into a whole language family with language differences as big as between modern English and Russian today. Jeph really should give this a nudge by giving the hole people really thick accents.

That said, in pre 1800s society national borders really didn't exists in the modern sense. On major trade routes there might have been a toll to enter, but elsewhere people lived their lives with little regard on the matter.


If they've had much success unearthing working weapons (a la Sedna), they might be in a good position to defend themselves regardless.

There should be some trench formations around the hole for that though.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: DSL on 30 Jun 2016, 14:20
I rather like how Left Horse-bird is side-eyeing the apparently asleep Right Horse-bird.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: SubaruStephen on 30 Jun 2016, 20:04
A small town down inside a hole.

From now on I'm calling it Pits' burg.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Jul 2016, 01:26
Ardent's still looking nervous!

...Horse-bird.

Or "dogs", as we've learnt to call them :P
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: JimC on 01 Jul 2016, 04:32
i'm fascinated as to how thousand year old hardware being dug up from underground could possibly be of the slightest use for getting the dynamic duo back in orbit, but then I'm also amazed at Sedna's guns still being operational without any sign of a machine shop.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 01 Jul 2016, 05:37
So, how are they digging that hole, and how are they removing the excavated dirt?

They have that 4SP (=struthopower) crane/drill/pump/whatnot at 7 o'clock. And ramps. The pyramid builders used slaves and ramps. Presumably this community takes better care of their workers.

Waiting what happens, if/when Ardent touches a piece of technology here.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 01 Jul 2016, 11:46
They have that 4SP (=struthopower) crane/drill/pump/whatnot at 7 o'clock.

is it just me or do those struthos look a lot bigger than the ones pulling the cart?

Waiting what happens, if/when Ardent touches a piece of technology here.

Me too  :parrot:

Wonder if they'll choose to deploy the ability tactically
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Roborat on 04 Jul 2016, 11:40
So, how are they digging that hole, and how are they removing the excavated dirt?

They have that 4SP (=struthopower) crane/drill/pump/whatnot at 7 o'clock. And ramps. The pyramid builders used slaves and ramps. Presumably this community takes better care of their workers.

Waiting what happens, if/when Ardent touches a piece of technology here.

I only see cranes, I don't see any buckets. Don't see any dirt haulers either.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: Undrneath on 04 Jul 2016, 18:49
The hole may already have existed for the most part and the settlement grew up around it.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jul 2016, 23:57
One possibility is that they've stumbled across an underground bunker system full of the tech they wanted to find. So, there isn't all that much dirt to move now they're down to the bunkers and through its concrete roof. It's just a matter of systematically exploring the storerooms, silos and hangers.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: brasca on 05 Jul 2016, 03:39
One possibility is that they've stumbled across an underground bunker system full of the tech they wanted to find. So, there isn't all that much dirt to move now they're down to the bunkers and through its concrete roof. It's just a matter of systematically exploring the storerooms, silos and hangers.

That seems highly plausible.  I find it amazing so much technology could survive relatively in tact.  One thing I learned from watching Life After People is it wouldn't take long for the things mankind has built to crumble.  Even though there were quite a few people left after the blink the results wouldn't be all that different without enough workers to maintain what was left. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jul 2016, 13:02
Most of the rapid decay of human built things is a result of exposure to the elements. If the tech they are uncovering has been largely protected from the elements, it should be in relatively decent condition. What damage has been sustained can be repaired. Sedna spends much of her time restoring old tech. These people could be doing the same.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - June 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Jul 2016, 16:24
For those who didn't see it at the bottom of the comic:

Quote from: 'Jeph'
Alice is going to be on a ďwhen I have time to draw itĒ update schedule for July. Iím traveling all month and donít have a lot of time to make comics! Iím hoping to still do at least one a week but I donít want to make promises I canít keep. Thanks for your patience.