THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 26 Jun 2016, 12:23
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Because this is a matter of the utmost gravity which must be resolved and soon!
On the subject of this week's strips... Hmm... You know, I think that we're going to have a week of Hannelore with Bubbles, maybe discussing the finer points of hallucinogenic tea fumes. Then, possibly, we might have an interesting intervention by Bubbles into Faye's own issues. Is there any reason for us to believe that Bubbles knows that Faye is struggling with addiction?
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Renee and Brun turn up at some point, looking for Clinton. However, if they do, it will be in the background.
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Let the Floof Wars begin :D ;)
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Begun, the Floof War has.
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This floof will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
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My cat wins all floof wars.
'Floof' is what we usually call our long-haired cat. (His name is Sam, but we hardly ever call him that except on visits to the vet). He has fine hairs that literally float on minute air currents such as updrafts from warm chunks of carpet heated by sunlight through a window.
He can shed on things from three rooms away. I have cat hair in my teacup, and I've done nothing but get it out of the dishwasher, brew tea, and walk upstairs with it. He's not even walking around, this is just atmospheric floof.
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This will be a very short war.
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Yeah, this is less a floof war than it is a floof massacre, with Claire leading the charge and the rest of us protected by her hair's impenetrable floofiness
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What about Dale??
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Lord, Jeph, all the scales, I understand why you say never again! Looks good, but must have taken AGES
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I wonder if the boss knew when he started this comic that it would lead to him one day drawing robots and dragons in the same panel.
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Even if he didn't, I doubt there is anyone that will say that this isn't a good thing.
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Robots, dragons, Japanese tea.
Imagine Marigold's reaction.
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I like how you can tell which dragon is which person mostly by the way they talk -- although the floofy blonde hair on the Hannerdragon helped a bit.
Go, Hanners, boss Faye around some more! :mrgreen:
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What about Dale??
Fixed :parrot:
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What about Dale??
Fixed :parrot:
Yay! Only I don't know how to change my vote :(
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That first panel needs to be a print.
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This will be a very short war.
We think that every time. We go in with overwhelming hair strikes but once we get to the roots, we lose the heads and minds to the rinse-surgency and soon we're stuck in a floof-mire and we're lucky to get out with our scalps. Every time.
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So what is that animal in the first panel? It looks like some sort of armadillo/reindeer hybrid.
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I don't know what animal it is, but it has some pretty powerful floof happening itself.
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I don't know either, but it looks very graceful and pretty! I like to think it's something out of Japanese mythology, because Japanese tea.
The dragons, on the other hand, look distinctly Chinese. But that kind of emphasizes how much they're intruding on Bubble's peaceful oasis.
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For comic #3251...
1. Given Jeph's playing and enjoyment of Overwatch FPS, I wonder if this strip was inspired by the Overwatch Animated Short: "Dragons" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ09xdxzIJQ)?
2. Have to admit, it took me a bit to realize that the bit near Hanner-dragon was the kirin flying away. Otherwise, I loved Faye- & Hanner-dragons.
3. @improvnerd... As mentioned, it is (probably) a Kirin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin), given the title of the comic.
Warning - While you were typing... Ryuu-ga, Wa-ga-te-ki-wo, Ku-ra-u! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ09xdxzIJQ)
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I totally didn't get that the dragons were Hanners and Faye. But upon re-reading the comic, it seems obvious.
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Also, Kirin seems plausible. Thanks!
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TEN FEET HIGHER
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That first panel needs to be a print.
It seriously does!
Really though, today's (well, tonight's for me) comic is super amazing. Like dang it looks super legit. One has to wonder though.. who was Bubbles feeding? (Probably just imagination at that part.. but it's still fun to speculate and WTF was happening IRL.)
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Red Queen, White Queen.
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The creature in the first panel is a Kirin. The title of the comic is even 'Hello Kirin'. Seems kind of obvious... Fayedragon and Hannersdragon are also Japanese dragons. Both Japanese and Chinese dragons have similar looks to them, but since Bubbles was enjoying a Japanese tea, Japanese Kirin and Dragons make sense.
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Beautiful artwork today. The dragons and the kirin are truly amazing. I understand that this must have been a lot of work for Jeph, but the result is worth it.
I try to imagine this scene in CoD, with Faye and Hanners arguing over Bubbles, still sitting in her chair, eyes closed, holding her cup of tea. :laugh:
TM
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Bubbles probably lacks the context to realise this but I'm getting a strong sisterly squabble vibe from Faye and Hannelore's argument. I honestly expect the next step to be them poking out their tongues at eachother and then running to 'Mom' (likely poor Dora) to arbitrate! Still, you can't help but smile at how comfortable they are wwith eachother!
Now, who started the "Hannelore is very powerful" meme? I'm wondering if this is a mantra her therapist suggested to her? Or someone else?
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I'm really excited to see how this week's strips are going to turn out. Faye's realization she hasn't had a drink triggering her want to have one is a very real thing. I battled some severe alcoholism when I turned 21. It might seem like an oxymoron, but I was in a bad state. Now, these days, I pass the beer aisle at the local grocery store and will feel the very tiny, tiny itch in my heart and mind that say "Hey, you've been good. Get your favorite." But I've coped well enough that it doesn't bother me and I keep on walking.
Hopefully Faye wants to just go back to the shop and not, say, a local liquor store. But, falling of the wagon is a common and natural thing that requires support to get them back on the saddle.
P.S: My favorite before quitting was Wheat 312 bottled by Goose Island. For all you drinkers out there, it's pretty smooth and isn't too carbonated.
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Careful there, Bubbles. If you build a fence in your mind that blocks out external sights and sounds, isn't that pretty much self-induced catatonia? Could be difficult to get out of that again.
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Careful there, Bubbles. If you build a fence in your mind that blocks out external sights and sounds, isn't that pretty much self-induced catatonia? Could be difficult to get out of that again.
Nah. She'll just put in a gate.
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Bubbles in Unicorn Grove reminds me of this book cover.... quite a striking similarity.
(http://www.samapsandflags.co.za/Collectibles/Vietnam/MeditationsInGreen.JPG)
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If for completeness' sake the kirin should also correspond to a person, somehow it would make total sense to me if it were Emily.
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That is definitely a kirin, or as we say in Chinese, a qilin (麒麟 qílín pron. chee-leen). It speaks well of Bubbles that a qilin appears in her mind-realm. Qilin will only appear in an area which is controlled by a just, wise, and benevolent ruler, and are closely linked with sages and other wise people.
The colour of dragons has meaning in East Asian mythology. Red dragons are associated with luck, fire, passion and the heart. It is the dragon of summer and the South. Certainly appropriate for our Georgia Peach. White dragons are associated with the principle of yang; positive, active and powerful, as Hanners feels herself to be. White also symbolises purity, which is also appropriate, and mourning, which we hope is not.
I don't know how far Jeph researched this, but he got it pretty much spot on.
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It took me a while to place it but the white dragon's last line reminds me of Coyote in Gunnerkrigg court (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=489).
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So Las Vegas says that Claire is the pregame favorite in the floof bowl. At least they won't give you great odds, if you are betting for her. This is easy to understand. After all, we have seen evidence of the power of Clairefloof all season long - being able to contain sharpies and boyfriends (or his hands at least) among other things.
But, ladies and gentlemen, let's not forget about Hannelore. She considers such public displays of floofiness as unhygienic, and may be hiding something significant in reserve. After these messages from your local station please join us for the highlights of the semifinal matches where Claire outplayed the Dreaded Delilah, and Hannelore took control of a 9-dimensional cashmere scarf. Stay with us!
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At least she's not tainting her safe place with talk of dildos.
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My first reading of this didn't see the Red as Faye, but more a manifestation of the negative things in her life, like her self-doubt, anger, etc. trying to whisper in her ear. This would also make the "Oh come on, I'm way more powerful than you" about how she's been getting better (and the white dragon is Hanners because Hanners is dope).
But maybe I'm Reading Too Much Into Things, and it's just Faye trying to interrupt her. :psyduck: Hopefully it's not both.
"Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to rethink your whole life."
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i am going to play the longshot and bet a penny on bubbles in the floof bowl.
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Careful there, Bubbles. If you build a fence in your mind that blocks out external sights and sounds, isn't that pretty much self-induced catatonia? Could be difficult to get out of that again.
Nah, everyone has fences in their minds. It's necessary to keep sane.
For one example: You're driving down the freeway and somebody nearly runs you off the road. First thought - "I'm going to kill that asshole!" Nope, get back, bad thought, get back behind your fence and stay there. We are not going to kill anyone today.
A less dramatic example: You really need to finish this project, but other thoughts keep trying to intrude. Nope, go away distracting thoughts; go back behind your fence. I'll let you out later, after I finish this. Then I'll have time to think about other things.
Good mental fences make good neighbors.
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I don't know either, but it looks very graceful and pretty! I like to think it's something out of Japanese mythology, because Japanese tea.
The dragons, on the other hand, look distinctly Chinese. But that kind of emphasizes how much they're intruding on Bubble's peaceful oasis.
But is Bubble's tea bubble tea?
Gomen nasai.
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Lord, Jeph, all the scales, I understand why you say never again! Looks good, but must have taken AGES
Consummate 'V's, dammit! Consummate! (Homestar Runner shout-out)
Yeah, you kids might need the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfrAf1a9Qhs
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Dragonball CoD?
:-D
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Lord, Jeph, all the scales, I understand why you say never again! Looks good, but must have taken AGES
Consummate 'V's, dammit! Consummate! (Homestar Runner shout-out)
Yeah, you kids might need the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfrAf1a9Qhs
Respect your elders.
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I am aaaaaall for some burnination of the thatched-roof cottageeeeeeeess.
HSR-reverie aside, dragons spinoff comic please! You can just keep the same dragon drawings for all panels like with Indietits, I'll let ya. 8-)
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This raises an interesting question: which QC character would be the biggest Homestar Runner fan? I vote Raven (especially since she has, knowingly or unknowingly, referenced it before).
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I bet Marigold and Dale have been all upons it.
(No, not like that. Gracious me. You kiss your mother with that brain? :-o)
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Number of toes. Absolutely Japanese dragons. (Japanese have three toes, Chinese have four (five if Imperial)).
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The kirin is regarded by some as the offspring of a dragon and a water buffalo. I have seen a jade carving of a baby kirin nestled beside its buffalo momma. Dawww.
And I want a cup of whatever Bubbles is having.
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Tuesday's strip clears things up: Bubbles was in her garden, when Faye came over and started bugging her to leave. Hannelore then tried to intercede on Bubbles' behalf.
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I bet Marigold and Dale have been all upons it.
(No, not like that. Gracious me. You kiss your mother with that brain? :-o)
No, with my lips.
*rimshot*
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Humiliated Faye doesn't so much fall of the wagon as plummet. Bubbles attempts to mediate, probably in a bar.
This could end catastrophically badly or merely disastrously badly. Hope there's a twist coming.
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you have to admire bubbles level of commitment to not being a thief.
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No NFC or other wireless payment hardware?
I guess it wasn't at the top of the list when the Army issued requirements, and it might be difficult to add things to a body that heavily armored. Still, the other AnthroPCs have WiFi, so she could have used PayPal.
But then it wouldn't have been funny.
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Well, this definitely is more than just a coffeeshop that stops serving cups with two spoons of scorn... Change in general must freak her out. Maybe she is starting to think that she was the source of negativity Dora is talking about. But to get pissed at this level, though? I honestly think it's kind of sad (and pathetic).
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I feel like this particular strip requires emotional subtitles, because Faye seems inexplicably angry now.
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I feel like this particular strip requires emotional subtitles, because Faye seems inexplicably angry now.
she stops working there and everyone feels happy and there is almost no hate she is probably wondering if all the hate was her. or maybe i dunno im not her. I just think maybe she is wondering if all the bad parts of the coffee shop were her fault and is freaking out that it might be more than just the coffee shop that is worse because of her.
I might be looking to much into it but considering i have tried to do horrible things to myself and if i was in her shoes seeing everyone being happier and such with me gone...... yeah.
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The shop didn't crash-and-burn without her, and Faye can't handle that. I saw this all the time at my old job when retired Key Employees would pop in for a visit and tell us exactly how we'd gone to hell in a handbasket without them around running things. And then I had to remind myself to not be That Guy, myself.
EDIT: Additionally, Hannelore -- Hannelore, one of the kids! -- stood up to her. That's going to rock a Faye back on her heels.
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I honestly think it's as simple as "My Universal Constant Has Been Changed". Also Dora reminding her of alcohol. Bad mix.
Also... has... has Bubbles done this before?
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When I saw angry Faye today and Doras excuse, my first thought was that Faye is in a bad temper because she was reminded of her alcohol addiction and because she feels bad about craving a drink right now.
But you all have a good point here. Maybe she really sees that things are running smooth, succesful and friendlier without her, which gives her a feeling of beeing a negative (= bad) person. And that´s what makes her want to start drinking again.
And the thing is, she´s not completely wrong here. Not in beeing a bad person of cause, but in being a source of negativity for CoD. Her scorn and sassiness have been a key feature of the ambiente of the shop. With her gone the shop and it´s attitude change, which is only natural. Dora is a grown-up person. And an attitude of sassiness as a business model will get her only so far. Personally and business-like. She has realised that and reacts accordingly.
Dora has moved on. And it´s time for Faye to do the same. Put the past where it belongs: to the memorys. And get on with her own life.
To quote Gunnerkrigg Court again:
"And now the world will continue to spin."
TM
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I guess it wasn't at the top of the list when the Army issued requirements, and it might be difficult to add things to a body that heavily armored. Still, the other AnthroPCs have WiFi, so she could have used PayPal.
It is quite possible that CoD is cash only. Such businesses still *do* exist.
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Faye is responding to her revelation on Friday by trying to run away from it. Eventually, Faye is going to have to stop running away. She's been running away - from her father's suicide, from her own unresolved relationship problems and her alcoholism - for a while. I'm hoping that Bubbles will, from her own bitter experience, try to communicate just how wretched a life it is to spend your life running and hiding from your demons.
Meanwhile, Dora is doing the right thing. Accepting body parts in lieu of payment would set a precedent that, given the grotesques that populate QC, she doesn't want to have to deal with!
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I guess it wasn't at the top of the list when the Army issued requirements, and it might be difficult to add things to a body that heavily armored. Still, the other AnthroPCs have WiFi, so she could have used PayPal.
It is quite possible that CoD is cash only. Such businesses still *do* exist.
Except the title of the strip is "They Also Accept Paypal".
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Well, I hope that little outburst was just because of multiple different things aggravating her at once and is just a temp. thing. It'd suck for Dora and Hannelore to feel bad about trying to do the right thing.
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Also... has... has Bubbles done this before?
She repairs robots for a living, so yes, I'm sure she has done this before. Although not necessarily to herself.
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I don’t know why it took me so long to notice that Faye went back to her old square glasses. She had the round ones in 3205 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3205) but the reverted to the square ones at the beginning of this arc in 3238 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3238).
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Except the title of the strip is "They Also Accept Paypal".
Yeah, but that'd require paying attention.
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TBH I often ignore the title.
It's usually (as it is today) a punchline to the last panel, and so makes little to no sense when you start reading. Therefore, I got used to not bothering to read it. Only rarely do I think to glance back at it once I'm done reading the comic.
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I also used to miss the title, but now I usually check it after reading Jeph's little remarks at the bottom.
Today's, incidentally, is relevant: "Bubbles doesn't have a credit card, she finds the concept offensive"
I can actually see a number of reasons why an AI might not like digital payment methods. I consider these remarks canon until proven otherwise. :wink:
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I consider these remarks canon until proven otherwise. :wink:
I mean, they're basically the word of god, albeit a god who changes his mind occasionally and reserves the right to retcon anything. I can't think of any examples, but I'm sure they exist/will one day exist.
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The shop didn't crash-and-burn without her, and Faye can't handle that. I saw this all the time at my old job when retired Key Employees would pop in for a visit and tell us exactly how we'd gone to hell in a handbasket without them around running things. And then I had to remind myself to not be That Guy, myself.
EDIT: Additionally, Hannelore -- Hannelore, one of the kids! -- stood up to her. That's going to rock a Faye back on her heels.
Good thing Penelope wasn't there. I don't know if she could handle knowing the girl she press ganged into working there now has her old job. While I can understand that Faye may be feeling that she was a toxic influence that harmed the shop more than helped it seems more like her not being the right fit for her old job and better at her new. Hopefully, Bubbles can make her realize that because if the shop was still being run the old way she'd never feel welcome enough to have her little tea parties.
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I feel like this particular strip requires emotional subtitles, because Faye seems inexplicably angry now.
Faye wants a drink. Really wants a drink. And she knows she shouldn't have one. So she needs a scapegoat to blame when she falls off the wagon. Dora is the most convenient one at the moment. Therefore she must get angry at Dora so that she can justify the drink she is about to go buy.
Yeah, there's still a logical disconnect there, but Faye is in a hurry and doesn't have time to come up with something airtight.
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I'm sticking with my earlier post that Faye is trying to run away from CoD because she's hoping that if she runs away from the place where she realised that she still has a craving for alcohol, then she'll somehow run away from the craving. It's entirely an irrational, emotional reaction but you can't blame her for having it.
I suspsect that Bubbles will now have the chance to return the favour of that time Faye talked her out of her funk when she had slurs thrown at her in the street. A hug, in other words.
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I think, the thought of alcohol brought up the bad memories of the place and she needed to get some space. In many ways bubbles will help faye the same way she helped her.
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I'm looking forward to the next comics because I'd like to see if Faye is more upset because the Coffee of Doom changed without her permission, or if she's having a meltdown because now she wants a drink. I honestly can't tell right now.
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This is how bubs says "I'm gonna punch you in the face" when she doesn't wanna say "I'm gonna punch you in the face"
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Humiliated Faye doesn't so much fall of the wagon as plummet. Bubbles attempts to mediate, probably in a bar.
This could end catastrophically badly or merely disastrously badly. Hope there's a twist coming.
It would be an interesting co-inkydink if Faye and Bubbles end up in a bar that Brun has just gotten a job at...
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I really hope Faye goes to Marten about this. They're (or at least used to be) best friends, and they haven't had any interaction in a good while.
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
The way it forgot my term paper that one time in high school
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
That's a fascinating question and it reveals just how sophisticated and human-like the AIs minds actually are. Bubbles was so focussed on facing her fears and her insecurities that she didn't have sufficient processing power to run any kind of checklist about the things she needed for the trip; she had to focus all her resources on just forcing herself to get her coat and go out with Faye.
In some ways, that's not to different to how the same process occurs in humans. The data is there and, if there's a sufficient associative 'nudge' it will pop into the conscious mind. However, if our focus is elsewhere, we miss things like this.
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I'd be interested to see the customers' view on the changes to the cafe. In earlier comics you'd sometimes get people coming in specifically for the quirk of being sassed/abused by the staff (or to spar with Faye, in Angus's case) so I'm curious to see whether they'd welcome the more friendly atmosphere or share Faye's view that the cafe's appeal is in its negativity.
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I also used to miss the title, but now I usually check it after reading Jeph's little remarks at the bottom.
Today's, incidentally, is relevant: "Bubbles doesn't have a credit card, she finds the concept offensive"
Where did you find that?
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Directly under the bottom right panel of the comic.
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
She has her wallet. "I forgot my wallet" is a backhanded robot term for "fuck you meatbag, you made my buddy mad."
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void remember_wallet(wallet w)
{
//to be implemented at a later date.
return;
}
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
She has her wallet. "I forgot my wallet" is a backhanded robot term for "fuck you meatbag, you made my buddy mad."
Nah, she's looking for it in her jacket, and I think it's usually Faye who pays in the CoD, or Hanners gave her the tea for free the last time.
Faye's anger: Well, everyone basically told her: Everything's better without her. The negativity/sassiness her thought was a great appeal to the shop was enjoyed by nobody but her (although Dora, in the beginning of the comic, was way worse than Faye). She was way more disposable than she thought. And then she gets shushed by Hanners, when she wants to talk to her friend; said friend (basically) also tells her to shut up. And she wants a drink.
No wonder she's a short with Dora; she does try to keep it in check though, by telling her stuff's 'fine'. I don't think she blames Dora for anything, or wants to vent her anger at her; she's just not good at hiding her frustration. (Frustration I can understand very well, when you're first ignored and then told to shut up by your friends)
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Even if she had a credit card, most places have a minimum amount to use one. One cup of tea would not be so much (unless it's very expensive tea)
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How does a computer forget something like a wallet?
I think the short short answer is, "person, not computer." Emergent life forms (IIRC), not designed and coded by humans.
Happens to be implemented on computer hardware, but prone to many of human kind's foibles, including forgetting stuff.
You may as well ask, "How does a computer feel illogical emotions?"
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I think it's more a case of Faye having to face up to how things were back in CoD when she was there and everything that lead up to her winding up in Hospital with Alcohol Poisoning. I think it was a sudden 'Reality Check' kinda moment after all she's been through. We all know how Faye has issues dealing with such checks.
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"I must apologize for this, Faye, but you leave me no choice. Initializing Tony Stark Defense Mode!"
*Explosion of whirring and clicks*
"WHAT THE HELL."
"As you may have noticed, my chassis is largely hollow inside, and can, under certain conditions, reassemble into an armored exoskeleton and envelop a human body in order to keep it from harm--external, as was its original purpose on the battlefield, or, in your particular case, self-induced. I hope you are not experiencing any discomfort at present."
"So, you're telling me..."
"Yes, Faye, you are inside me right now."
"Oh, Tai's gonna have a field day with this."
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"Faye is in an emotional state I don't understand yet, so I'm going to assume the worst and project those assumptions onto her"
This is you, yes, you right now, person who I made the Red Text appear for while you were writing your comment. And you should be ashamed.
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Bubbles may have experience with this. Alcoholism is known to happen in the military.
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This is like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
"Faye is in an emotional state I don't understand yet, so I'm going to assume the worst and project those assumptions onto her"
This is you, yes, you right now, person who I made the Red Text appear for while you were writing your comment. And you should be ashamed.
*blink* Um. Huh.
You would appear to be assuming the worst of the next poster ahead of you. How interesting.
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I guess Bubbles could physically block the liquor store entrance.
*in sports team coach voice*
"Come on, Bubbles, you can do this. Be the wall."
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I guess Bubbles could physically block the liquor store entrance.
*in sports team coach voice*
"Come on, Bubbles, you can do this. Be the wall."
If Bubbles fails, send her to Stamford Bridge. They'll teach her how to 'park the bus', properly.
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part of me wants the next bit to be faye being legitimately emotional and crying. Another part of me wants her to be thrown over bubbles shoulders and forcibly dragged away.
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Part of me wants to see Bubbles tasing Faye to stop her drinking.
Another part of me wants to see Faye getting tased by Bubbles to stop her drinking.
Then there's a third part of me that just wants to see someone getting tased in the comic.
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Disappointing but realistic. Very few people manage to stay off the drug of choice when they decide to stop. But there is still hope Bubbles will talk her out of it. Faye has seen Bubbles at her worst and lowest point so I am optimistic she'll be able to do the same for Faye now.
Kind of hope that Faye talks more about her mindset and motivation in the obvious confrontation coming.
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Part of me wants to see Bubbles tasing Faye to stop her drinking.
Another part of me wants to see Faye getting tased by Bubbles to stop her drinking.
Then there's a third part of me that just wants to see someone getting tased in the comic.
Here you go. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2068)
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Does this count? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=529)
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And who hasn't wanted to tase their computer on occasion? (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1474)
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part of me wants the next bit to be faye being legitimately emotional and crying. Another part of me wants her to be thrown over bubbles shoulders and forcibly dragged away.
Bubbles' expression in the last panel is not incompatible with the latter. Just sayin'.
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Okay, so it's confirmed that Bubbles knows about Faye's condition. I strongly suspect that we're coming up to the scene when Faye screams a long, abusive tirade at Bubbles (who does her 'unfeeling brick wall' impersonation) before breaking down and Bubbles having to carry her back to the apartment. There follows an awkward night with her basically keeping watch over Faye to stop her doing anything stupid.
I'll add this: Jeph's footer note today is 'This is going well'. He's right: it is. A few months ago, Bubbles would have shrugged and walked away, telling herself that she didn't care. Her friendship with Faye is now strong enough that she is able to set aside abuse for her friend's sake.
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I also used to miss the title, but now I usually check it after reading Jeph's little remarks at the bottom.
Today's, incidentally, is relevant: "Bubbles doesn't have a credit card, she finds the concept offensive"
I can actually see a number of reasons why an AI might not like digital payment methods. I consider these remarks canon until proven otherwise. :wink:
But is it the concept of digital payment she finds offensive or the concept of monetary debt credit [brain, words please] that she finds offensive?
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No, Bubbles, no. "fucking off" is in tho other direction!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
More seriously though, I'm genuinely both curious and invested in what happens next. I think Bubbles might consider or try to prevent Faye from buying liquor with more than just calm argumentation, and I guess that could potentially be even worse. Both my limited knowledge and limited experience of people with addictions is that if they are stopped from indulging in their addiction by an outside force, or even feel they've been forced or coerced by someone else (even if it's not true), it tends not to last.
Right now I'm kinda worried, because I don't see any possibility of this ending well in a way that wouldn't feel like an easy, unrealistic "out", plot-wise.
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Glad to see what others are posting in here, as Faye seemed to be getting her knickers in a twist about absolutely nothing at all and it just seemed a vehicle for reciprocal being-there-in-dark-times between her and Bubbles. Jeph is not nearly so clumsy in his storytelling and I couldn't make it out, but I'd forgotten her earlier realisation that she's not had a drink in a long time. This plus change at CoD - as well as perhaps the less offensive yet still disturbing things-doing-fine-without-you thing, though she knew that already from her previous visit - have perhaps given her Reasons. Either way I feel we're still in for a reciprocal friend in need thing..
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This is the self-absorbed, thoroughly unpleasant Faye of yore.
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What's brick red, about the size of a wall, and roughly as immovable when she wants to be?
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No, Bubbles, no. "fucking off" is in tho other direction!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
More seriously though, I'm genuinely both curious and invested in what happens next. I think Bubbles might consider or try to prevent Faye from buying liquor with more than just calm argumentation, and I guess that could potentially be even worse. Both my limited knowledge and limited experience of people with addictions is that if they are stopped from indulging in their addiction by an outside force, or even feel they've been forced or coerced by someone else (even if it's not true), it tends not to last.
Right now I'm kinda worried, because I don't see any possibility of this ending well in a way that wouldn't feel like an easy, unrealistic "out", plot-wise.
Hopefully Bubbles can talk Faye down. It may just be this one time. But hopefully she manages to help out.
Bubbles might even shed a bit of her armor to distract Faye (like one of her gauntlets).
Que Bubbles making an analogy between her armor and Faye's drinking.
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The tbing about forcibly becoming freinds with a Starship Troopers expy is that they are completely capable of physically stopping you from doing a stupid thing. And Bubbles was in the army..stopping people from being stupid is practically a full time job.
This is the self-absorbed, thoroughly unpleasant Faye of yore.
I find people often revert to their worst selves when they know they are being self destructive, or know they are screwing up.
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This is like watching a slow-motion train wreck.
"Faye is in an emotional state I don't understand yet, so I'm going to assume the worst and project those assumptions onto her"
This is you, yes, you right now, person who I made the Red Text appear for while you were writing your comment. And you should be ashamed.
*blink* Um. Huh.
You would appear to be assuming the worst of the next poster ahead of you. How interesting.
Well there was going to be a comment there that justified it, but they saw mine pop up and ended up not posting it. You see.
It's really quite obvious what happened here.
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Big Daddy Bubs don't need to talk or tase or any shit other than picking Faye up and carrying her home.
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Big Daddy Bubs don't need to talk or tase or any shit other than picking Faye up and carrying her home.
And that's the scenario that worries me. In the end, the only person that can stop Faye from drinking is Faye. Stopping her from drinking right now, while a good stopgap measure, is not enough.
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Bubbles still has her left hand so Dora was able to talk her into starting a tab.
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What's brick red, about the size of a wall, and roughly as immovable when she wants to be?
Actually, we've seen Bubbles vs The Wall. It didn't go well for the wall.
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However this turns out, one thing is clear; it's going to suck to be Faye for awhile.
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This is the self-absorbed, thoroughly unpleasant Faye of yore.
Ok, un-lurking one more time this century to say, "I completely agree."
Which makes me sad because she was making such great progress, too. I was actually starting to forgive the general..."horrible-ness" of her character for the last..oooo, 2,000 pages. But, I'm remaining cautiously optimistic and will reserve final judgement until I see how this shakes out. So, buckle up, all; because HERE WE GO :roll: :lol:
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However this turns out, one thing is clear; it's going to suck to be Faye for awhile.
But the first few days are going to be fun, or so do I hear.
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I had not noticed the comments under the last panel. Going back and reading them, I found this http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3151
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Could Faye be having a bad reaction to her set of square glasses without realising it? Sort of like the opposite of rose-tinted glasses?
In that case her mood might change in quite a good direction once they get smashed during the fast approaching Battle of the Bottles.
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One odd thing is that an emotional crisis of "Oh my god how am I still alive" proportions can often be the impetus for giving an addiction up. Like an old gentleman who had a silver cigarette case with a Nazi swastika on it. He had survived the Normandy Beach Invasion and picked it up off a dead enemy officer. He was fumbling out a cigarette, turned it over and saw the swastika. He kept it ever after as a reminder, and never smoked another.
Morbid? Ghastly? Well, yes. Strictly against regs for trophy taking? Also yes. Had a certain kind of emotional truth about it though.
If Faye were to get narrowly missed by some kind of disaster right now, especially if it put someone else (like Bubbles) at risk, that might be the end of drinking for her. For example if she's in the headlights of an out-of-control concrete truck but gets missed because Bubbles shoves her (or the truck) out of the way at the last second and takes the hit instead? Yeah, that would probably do it - even if Bubbles were relatively unhurt.
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Foots now on the other foot now considering how Faye and Bubbles met.
This is going to be interesting.
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At first I will be honest I wasn't sure on Bubbles, but with these last two strips I have to say she has become my 3rd favorite QC character behind Hanners and Momo. I love how she is basically you know what your my fired so if I have to get tough with you its gonna happen.
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"It is non-negotiable" may be the nicest thing anyone ever said to anyone ever.
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"Non-negotiable friendship" .... I'll have to think about that for a bit.
(Pfaaart...)
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Bubbles, although professing not to be able to decide what to do, is doing the very best thing she could do.
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However this turns out, one thing is clear; it's going to suck to be Faye for awhile.
Think it's sucked to be Faye ever since her father pressed the trigger.
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Geeze, Faye's expression in the 4th panel is just pure animosity. I'm hoping Bubbles simply being around will make Faye just not purchase anything.. but I'm going to lean into the belief that it won't resolve as easily as that. Like people have previously said, it's probably going to take something a bit bigger to make Faye really slow herself down and quit for good. Bubbles is really determined and probably feels heavily in debt to Faye (for self-confidence reasons) and is probably going to put herself on the line to "repay" Faye, which could lead to something rather hurtful.
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I don't think she's going to go through with it. Bubbles is basically acting like an AA sponsor right now. Just her being there and disapproving quietly and unyieldingly will probably get Faye to reconsider.
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As someone who had OD'd three times, I can say it often takes a lot more than one case of alcohol poisoning to get someone to give up their vice. Old habits are hard to break, especially when they have a long history of helping you cope.
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If Faye were to get narrowly missed by some kind of disaster right now, especially if it put someone else (like Bubbles) at risk, that might be the end of drinking for her. For example if she's in the headlights of an out-of-control concrete truck but gets missed because Bubbles shoves her (or the truck) out of the way at the last second and takes the hit instead? Yeah, that would probably do it - even if Bubbles were relatively unhurt.
True, but that would be a horribly Contrived Coincidence. I hope Jeph is a better writer than that.
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I know Faye went to an AA meeting once with Hannelore serving in the capacity of sponsor, but I'm not sure if she's been back since then.
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It's a support group, but I think it's not AA in particular and that she didn't want their approach.
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She should just stop her.
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This might warrant its own thread, but I'm not dedicated enough to the moment of insight for that.
The general behavior of Bubbles makes me believe that Our Benevolent Comic Overlord is good friends with a veteran. The character is a little too accurate. The loss of idealism, the slightly jaded view of the world, the oddly on-the-nose absence of humor, and the blend of fatalism and stoicism is all way too familiar.
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Bubbles, just so that your database is up-to-date, Faye's action in panel 6 is what is known as an 'immature teenage strop'.
FWIW, I don't think that Faye quite knows what to do in this situation either. However, I do think that she's going to learn that there is no more effective a brake on her behaviour than a good friend hovering nearby and glaring disapprovingly at her. She knows this on a subconscious level, of course; why would she be so determined to get her to leave otherwise?
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One odd thing is that an emotional crisis of "Oh my god how am I still alive" proportions can often be the impetus for giving an addiction up. Like an old gentleman who had a silver cigarette case with a Nazi swastika on it. He had survived the Normandy Beach Invasion and picked it up off a dead enemy officer. He was fumbling out a cigarette, turned it over and saw the swastika. He kept it ever after as a reminder, and never smoked another.
Morbid? Ghastly? Well, yes. Strictly against regs for trophy taking? Also yes. Had a certain kind of emotional truth about it though.
If Faye were to get narrowly missed by some kind of disaster right now, especially if it put someone else (like Bubbles) at risk, that might be the end of drinking for her. For example if she's in the headlights of an out-of-control concrete truck but gets missed because Bubbles shoves her (or the truck) out of the way at the last second and takes the hit instead? Yeah, that would probably do it - even if Bubbles were relatively unhurt.
Sadly, not even a near-death experience is enough to get some people to stop.
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Sadly, not even a near-death experience is enough to get some people to stop.
I had more than one relative who could only be stopped by death. Grandmother, Uncle, cousins...
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Sadly, not even a near-death experience is enough to get some people to stop.
I had more than one relative who could only be stopped by death. Grandmother, Uncle, cousins...
A grandfather to lung cancer before I was even born. I'm told he still kept smoking.
Grandma didn't stop until some point when grandpa (her 2nd husband) started courting her nearly a decade later.
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My mom's a doctor. She has a lot of elderly patients. Some of whom have the oxygen tank under one hand and the cigarette in the other.
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Dora tried sitting next to Faye once and shaming her by taking one Dora-drink for every Faye-drink. It was a mistake.
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Gout didn't stop my uncle. It put him on a disability pension, and given the choice between losing the pension and losing the drink, he happily stuck with the drink. He would even boast openly about it.
The stroke did more or less stop him, but the damage was well and truly done by then, and he lasted only a few years longer.
I can't even think about it without feeling a mixture of anger, disgust, and shame. :x
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I have no problem with the relapse, it's sadly 100% accurate. My concern is the cause. I really hope it's due to the changes at the shop and realizing how dark her life was, and not just 'cause Dora mentioned booze. It's not possible that in a month she's not been tempted. Hell, I can't watch three YouTube videos in a row without seeing an ad for alcohol. You go to any restaurant, they hand you a drinks menu before you get a food one often.
As someone a bit sensitive to alcohol in my life, I notice it a lot.
Just worried it'll be 'Dora said booze now I want it' as a cheap drama to make Dora feel guilty and shift the blame. Hope not, and like to think no, but that's my concern about the storyline and has been since the final panel a week ago where Faye said she wanted a drink.
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I suspect that Faye is feeling like she is no longer central to her friends' lives and is feeling lonely. Maybe she even feels that they've moved on without her (which is wrong - she's actually moved on as much as they have; she just doesn't like change). Like a lot of addicts, she's responding to this by going to her addiction for familiar and reassuring reflexive behaviours.
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Agreed. That wouldn't stop her from childishly blaming Dora.
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It would be in-character, though, for Dora to feel guilty, whether Faye explicitly blamed her or not. And the good vibes would end, or at least teeter precariously, at Coffee of not-quite-as-Doomy-as-Before.
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No crowbar required.
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She should just stop her.
No, Bubbles has it right. Stop her now, Faye'll just go for it as soon as Bubbles' back is turned, with an extra soupcon of "I'll show you! You can't tell me what to do!" for good measure.
My biggest fear is that Drunk Faye will say something incredibly hurtful to Bubbles...but the Big Red Gal seems to have developed more resistance to that kind of thing, so it may be okay.
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It's that kind of contrary mood where you continue with a mistake to punish yourself for the mistake...
The last time Faye fell off the wagon, it was in a positive mood, feeling like she'd earned it. This time, she knows full well she's about to fuck up, but she's too angry to care, and making her angrier won't fix that.
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This is the self-absorbed, thoroughly unpleasant Faye of yore.
:: Happily munches popcorn ::
However this turns out, one thing is clear; it's going to suck to be Faye for awhile.
:: Munches more popcorn ::
This might warrant its own thread, but I'm not dedicated enough to the moment of insight for that.
The general behavior of Bubbles makes me believe that Our Benevolent Comic Overlord is good friends with a veteran. The character is a little too accurate. The loss of idealism, the slightly jaded view of the world, the oddly on-the-nose absence of humor, and the blend of fatalism and stoicism is all way too familiar.
Not all veterans are like this. Some are, but others have different coping mechanisms, like contrariness and dark humor.
My mom's a doctor. She has a lot of elderly patients. Some of whom have the oxygen tank under one hand and the cigarette in the other.
This is more common than anyone outside of the medical profession realizes. To the point where it's part of certain training curriculums to illustrate that your patient may not be the only one at the scene:
"You arrive at the scene for shortness of breath. The lady answers the door with a cigarette and an oxygen cannula in her nose. As you begin your assessment, she croaks, 'Oh, it's not for me...it's for Irving...' and points to her husband, also on oxygen, on the couch."
Anyway, it looks like Faye is headed down her dark path. Let's see where it goes THIS time.
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There is only a certain number of times people will be there for you after a fuck up. Eventually there is no one left.
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Faye might not like it, but I think Bubbles being there and not backing down and leaving her to her own devises is exactly the right thing to happen.
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There is only a certain number of times people will be there for you after a fuck up. Eventually there is no one left.
Which is why addicts' most steadfast "friends" tend to be the people they get drunk or high with regularly. In other words, other addicts.
Marten and Dora used to drink with Faye, but couldn't keep up with her, and probably won't even try anymore since she almost killed herself with alcohol. Not to mention the disapproving looks (and comments) she'll get from them. So if Faye goes back to hard drinking, she'll have to join another social circle of hard drinkers for "friendship".
Faye might not like it, but I think Bubbles being there and not backing down and leaving her to her own devises is exactly the right thing to happen.
Whether Bubble's presence puts her off drinking depends on how determined Faye is to jump off the wagon. She seems pretty determined right now...
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She does, and she may or may not go through with it even with Bubbles watching. At best, Bubbles can be there for her if she does go ahead with it.
I'm hoping her conscience gets the better of her (as rare as that is with Faye) and, whille she may buy the booze, she'll eventually not go through with it.
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It just occurred to me that I find nothing at all odd or remarkable about a large red robot wearing a trenchcoat having an argument with someone in the streets of Northampton.
Marten and Dora used to drink with Faye, but couldn't keep up with her, and probably won't even try anymore since she almost killed herself with alcohol. Not to mention the disapproving looks (and comments) she'll get from them. So if Faye goes back to hard drinking, she'll have to join another social circle of hard drinkers for "friendship".
Helloooo Barry!
Or Jimbo, I suppose. But Barry would be funnier.
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Comic!
Actually it is nothing at all like fuck, but that's just my opinion.
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Bubbles, either by accident or cunning, may have switched Faye to a different track.
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Good job, Bubbles, and Faye too. At least Faye can articulate her feelings beyond, "Feel shitty so gonna drink." Hopefully having a non-judgemental ear will help.
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Actually it is nothing at all like fuck, but that's just my opinion.
I've used that argument myself, to point out how a friends' argument is baseless.
I've got hopes, now. That argument has worked on my friends, who admittedly, didn't have the 'alcoholic' issue, but may still have some effect on Faye. The argument's just as stupid, regardless of whose mouth it comes from...
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And Faye has just realised that the mark she leaves on this world will, like all man made ventures, crumble into dust.
Unfortunately, she still hasn't realised that the most important mark is actually who she interacts with. Yeah, she doesn't work at CoD anymore, but she has her friendships which have grown and developed there.
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Maybe Bubbles is going to open up a little bit about her past. It might keep Faye distracted long enough to not drink.
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As I suspected, this is mostly about Faye beating herself up over her mistakes; some genuine and some which exist only in her low self-esteem psyche. She does make mistakes, of course, because she's human and humans tend to do that (irritating as that is). However, she's eventually going to have to learn that the best way to handle this is to try to change yourself rather than seek oblivion for a few hours and then carry right on doing it.
I'm pretty sure that trying to explain her thinking process to Bubbles is going to rip the blinders off for Faye and she's simply not going to be able to face getting drunk simply because she can't explain her feelings to her friend without sounding like an idiot. I'm still betting that this arc will end with her in tears and Bubbles hugging her.
From Jeph's notes on this comic, it appears that he thinks of Bubbles speaking in a firm, stentorian voice that makes profanity sound vaguely ridiculous. I'm glad that I'm not the only one whose mental voice for her is like that! :-D
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I couldn't help but read bubbles' last line in James Earl Jones's voice.
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As I suspected, this is mostly about Faye beating herself up over her mistakes; some genuine and some which exist only in her low self-esteem psyche. She does make mistakes, of course, because she's human and humans tend to do that (irritating as that is). However, she's eventually going to have to learn that the best way to handle this is to try to change yourself rather than seek oblivion for a few hours and then carry right on doing it.
I'm pretty sure that trying to explain her thinking process to Bubbles is going to rip the blinders off for Faye and she's simply not going to be able to face getting drunk simply because she can't explain her feelings to her friend without sounding like an idiot. I'm still betting that this arc will end with her in tears and Bubbles hugging her.
From Jeph's notes on this comic, it appears that he thinks of Bubbles speaking in a firm, stentorian voice that makes profanity sound vaguely ridiculous. I'm glad that I'm not the only one whose mental voice for her is like that! :-D
Nah she's just re-learning that you can't go home again.
It's not any mistake she made it's just like like she said, Mom turned her room into guest bedroom. That shit'll get you if you don't see it coming.
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I hope Faye realises soon that while things are different, she profited from the change most of all. Her Job is so much better for her, more interesting and better paid; no need for emergency burbon when you're bored in the evening. CW might be manipulative and mean, but she's at least as good a boss as Dora - even better when one considers she has yet to do anything hilariously shitty like firing someone over hugging their boyfriend.
Also, Bubbles tactic is funny and effective at the same time. I wonder where she learned that :D
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As I suspected, this is mostly about Faye beating herself up over her mistakes; some genuine and some which exist only in her low self-esteem psyche. She does make mistakes, of course, because she's human and humans tend to do that (irritating as that is). However, she's eventually going to have to learn that the best way to handle this is to try to change yourself rather than seek oblivion for a few hours and then carry right on doing it.
I'm pretty sure that trying to explain her thinking process to Bubbles is going to rip the blinders off for Faye and she's simply not going to be able to face getting drunk simply because she can't explain her feelings to her friend without sounding like an idiot. I'm still betting that this arc will end with her in tears and Bubbles hugging her.
From Jeph's notes on this comic, it appears that he thinks of Bubbles speaking in a firm, stentorian voice that makes profanity sound vaguely ridiculous. I'm glad that I'm not the only one whose mental voice for her is like that! :-D
Nah she's just re-learning that you can't go home again.
It's not any mistake she made it's just like like she said, Mom turned her room into guest bedroom. That shit'll get you if you don't see it coming.
Well, she also seems to be questioning whether her influence was more negative than positive, and unhappy that, whichever it was, it's gone now - that she "matters" less, that the mark she's left (and perhaps her ability to affect the world going forward) has diminished.
A really nasty cocktail of self-doubt and feeling insignificant and powerless. Serve over ice in an highball glass straight from the bottle, glug glug glug.
I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
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She should just stop her.
No she shouldn't. That'll make everything worse.
Quitting doesn't work if it's for someone else. You have to quit for you.
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Kind of hoping Faye has a moment of clarity and realises what a terrible person she is and then strives to improve.
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Bubbles, either by accident or cunning, may have switched Faye to a different track.
Bubbles' tactic of saying, in essence, "I'm not judging you or trying to challenge you with this question, but I don't always understand human behavior, so help me out" is brilliant. Perhaps unconsciously so, but brilliant nonetheless.
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I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
It may depend on if Faye is ready to face such an epiphany. If she isn't she may be driven to drink even faster; "Oh god the feels. THE FEELS. MUST DROWN THEM!!!" I've always thought that the reason many addicts continue chasing that high even though the chase has imploded the rest of their lives is because the high is the one remaining good feeling. The rest of their life is hell, getting high relieves the pain for awhile; for all too many addicts, that may be all they think they have left.
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I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
It may depend on if Faye is ready to face such an epiphany. If she isn't she may be driven to drink even faster; "Oh god the feels. THE FEELS. MUST DROWN THEM!!!" I've always thought that the reason many addicts continue chasing that high even though the chase has imploded the rest of their lives is because the high is the one remaining good feeling. The rest of their life is hell, getting high relieves the pain for awhile; for all too many addicts, that may be all they think they have left.
Fairly often, it's not even a matter of feeling good anymore. You do it to keep from feeling bad, because the drugs or alcohol have burned out all the pleasure receptors in the brain.
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Damn. That's...so much worse than I thought.
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I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
It may depend on if Faye is ready to face such an epiphany. If she isn't she may be driven to drink even faster; "Oh god the feels. THE FEELS. MUST DROWN THEM!!!" I've always thought that the reason many addicts continue chasing that high even though the chase has imploded the rest of their lives is because the high is the one remaining good feeling. The rest of their life is hell, getting high relieves the pain for awhile; for all too many addicts, that may be all they think they have left.
I don't recall the name of the experiment or those that performed it, but the experimenter(s) had put a lone rat in a standard cave with just some bedding, bland food pellets, and two water bottles. One was plan water, the other was drugged (crack, if I'm not mistaken). The rat always chose the drugged water. Said rat was transferred to a much larger cage with other rats, a running wheel, plenty of toys, a more varied diet, and two water bottles -- one of which contained the same drug. The rat went for the normal water. The conclusion was that when the rat's needs were met, it didn't take drugs. And it's also suggested that our current model of addiction is wrong.
Mind you, this is something I read on tumblr, so take it with a grain of salt.
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I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
It may depend on if Faye is ready to face such an epiphany. If she isn't she may be driven to drink even faster; "Oh god the feels. THE FEELS. MUST DROWN THEM!!!" I've always thought that the reason many addicts continue chasing that high even though the chase has imploded the rest of their lives is because the high is the one remaining good feeling. The rest of their life is hell, getting high relieves the pain for awhile; for all too many addicts, that may be all they think they have left.
I don't recall the name of the experiment or those that performed it, but the experimenter(s) had put a lone rat in a standard cave with just some bedding, bland food pellets, and two water bottles. One was plan water, the other was drugged (crack, if I'm not mistaken). The rat always chose the drugged water. Said rat was transferred to a much larger cage with other rats, a running wheel, plenty of toys, a more varied diet, and two water bottles -- one of which contained the same drug. The rat went for the normal water. The conclusion was that when the rat's needs were met, it didn't take drugs. And it's also suggested that our current model of addiction is wrong.
Mind you, this is something I read on tumblr, so take it with a grain of salt.
I've heard about this outside of Tumblr, for what it's worth. I think I saw a TED Talk video about just this.
Still not an excellent and reliable source, but better'n nothing ;)
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I don't recall the name of the experiment or those that performed it, but the experimenter(s) had put a lone rat in a standard cave with just some bedding, bland food pellets, and two water bottles. One was plan water, the other was drugged (crack, if I'm not mistaken). The rat always chose the drugged water. Said rat was transferred to a much larger cage with other rats, a running wheel, plenty of toys, a more varied diet, and two water bottles -- one of which contained the same drug. The rat went for the normal water. The conclusion was that when the rat's needs were met, it didn't take drugs. And it's also suggested that our current model of addiction is wrong.
Mind you, this is something I read on tumblr, so take it with a grain of salt.
I've heard about this outside of Tumblr, for what it's worth. I think I saw a TED Talk video about just this.
Still not an excellent and reliable source, but better'n nothing ;)
I think you folks are talking about Rat Park. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park)
The problem for humans, of course, is our tendency to overthink a plate of beans - even if all our basic needs are being met, we'll go ahead and question whether we deserve it.
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I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
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FWIW, I think that a lot of the transferrence problem is because making a human 'happy' is fantastically more complex an endeavour than with a rat. For some reason, we have an instinctive drive to find 'meaning' in our lives; this has at least as strong an impact on our mental and emotional balance as any purely physical issue.
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I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
I don't think there's a one-on-one correspondence, but I think humans do act on some pretty basic and simple instincts, much of the time. Certainly more often than we tend to think. And understanding certain simple processes in rats may shed some light on how humans behave, too. Yes, it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but as complex an animal as I am, I am still an animal. I am subject to many dynamics, both as an individual and as a part of group, as any other mammal. And a rat is a relatively smart mammal, too.
Does the experiment explain all human behaviour regarding addiction? I highly doubt that. Does it have *relevance* for humans? I believe it does.
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FWIW, I think that a lot of the transferrence problem is because making a human 'happy' is fantastically more complex an endeavour than with a rat. For some reason, we have an instinctive drive to find 'meaning' in our lives; this has at least as strong an impact on our mental and emotional balance as any purely physical issue.
Also, getting what we (thought we) want(ed) does not always make us happier, at least not for long; a lot of humans, probably most of us, seem to be wired to never be really content with what we have, always desiring more. Once we get something, we move our goalposts. It's one of the more messed-up aspects of our cognition, IMO, that we can't ever just be happy with what we've got, though it's allowed us as a species to accomplish some amazing things (that we look at first with pride, then with ambivalence, and finally with scorn - it wasn't really that great/why haven't we done anything else that cool?).
There's a wiki article on this (the hedonic treadmill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill)), if anyone's interested.
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I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
I don't think there's a one-on-one correspondence, but I think humans do act on some pretty basic and simple instincts, much of the time. Certainly more often than we tend to think. And understanding certain simple processes in rats may shed some light on how humans behave, too. Yes, it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but as complex an animal as I am, I am still an animal. I am subject to many dynamics, both as an individual and as a part of group, as any other mammal. And a rat is a relatively smart mammal, too.
Does the experiment explain all human behaviour regarding addiction? I highly doubt that. Does it have *relevance* for humans? I believe it does.
Definitely agree.
There's an entire field of study devoted to animal behavior; ethology (if memory serves). Animals and humans shouldn't be given a 1:1 correlation.
I know I brought up the rat park study, but only because it is relevant.
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Bubbles attitude here, whether intentional or simply by her lack of social understanding and interaction with Human Civilians, might be exactly the right tack for her to be taking even if she doesn't realise it.
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My mom's a doctor. She has a lot of elderly patients. Some of whom have the oxygen tank under one hand and the cigarette in the other.
This describes my mom perfectly. She chain-smokes all day long, between breathing treatments, in the middle of the night, just constantly. She's developed COPD and has been told she needs to be on oxygen all day long, but she won't because it interferes with her smoking. She's only in her 40s and she lives like she's in her 80s, complete with a walker because she can't go more than 10 steps without getting short of breath and dizzy. Since she was 12-years-old, the longest she's gone without a cigarette (outside of during hospital stays) is 12 hours. She nearly died a couple years ago (had to be taken by LifeFlight to the hospital) and it still didn't wake her up enough to get her to quit. We brought her home and she immediately lit up.
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I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats.
In fact that's the whole point of science. Experimental results (at least in well-designed experiments) are reproducible whether you like them or not. You don't HAVE to like it.
That said, the experimental results are about rats, not humans. I don't know of any similar experiment being carried out to see if it works on humans, but I kinda think one ought to be. When we find something that works on a problem humans have, even for a simpler organism, it's just plain good sense to see whether some version of it works on humans.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
Hmmm. Like I said, I don't know of any well-designed studies on humans. Anecdotally, I think I've seen similar things happening to humans with positive results too. Of addicts I've known who did quit, I can't think of a single one of them who quit while they were all alone in the world. They all had a bunch of other people they were involved with at the time.
But that's anecdotal, not a proper statistical study. Anecdotes are all we really have at this point, not solid results. Especially not solid results that would indicate a proper way HOW to apply it to humans. FWIW, while I've seen people successfully quit things (including my dad) I don't recall personally seeing a single one who quit as a result of any kind of intentional interaction by a family specifically aimed at reaching that result. What I recall is people, usually without specific intent in doing it as a way of quitting, developing interests, becoming active members of communities, undertaking charitable causes, etc, and finally finding that they could quit.
In the most extreme cases, it really does happen like Faye's shown in the comic - realizing after a week or a month or whatever that they just haven't been thinking about the addiction. Of course, this is unfortunate, because, like Faye, that thought often as not brings the "need" back to the surface. I think that kind of specific memory bringing back a psychological need is probably something rats suffer from a bit less than humans.
But if all we had on the other point was anecdotes, what I just said about rats is a mere untested theory.
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Also, getting what we (thought we) want(ed) does not always make us happier, at least not for long; a lot of humans, probably most of us, seem to be wired to never be really content with what we have, always desiring more. Once we get something, we move our goalposts. It's one of the more messed-up aspects of our cognition, IMO, that we can't ever just be happy with what we've got.
I think that might be a basic feature of consciousness, actually. Conscious beings are always looking for the next thing. No matter how powerfully we can affect our environment, no matter how easy we can make our own survival, no matter how much we discover we can do - we become diminished (and usually unhappy) unless we are always seeking to do, or become, or get, or learn, or communicate, or to love or to be loved, more than we are.
Certainly most of the work of modeling real consciousness - for me anyway - has come down to trying to understand the mechanisms behind motivation and desire - where does that come from and how does it work? And the only place it seems possible for it to arise is in the context of thinking about, anticipating, the future - to whatever extent the system is capable - in relationship to maximizing the conditions under which the organism thrives.
Our brains in fact are organized in terms of those desires, plans, and aspirations and thinking about the future. We don't even notice things that aren't 'understood' to be related to our futures. We have such a detailed representation of the world in our heads, we perceive so much of what our senses take in, precisely because humans are in the business of making a HUGE range of details relevant to our futures. If we couldn't ever find a way in which rocks were relevant to us - from not tripping over them, to looking for 'better' stuff among them, to picking them up and throwing them - we'd never even notice that rocks existed.
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Wow. Three in a row. I'll quit now, I promise.
At the risk of straying back on topic....
Today's comic brings up a question. Bubbles clearly has no idea what fuck is actually like. Who should enlighten her, and how?
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I couldn't help but read bubbles' last line in James Earl Jones's voice.
I imagined hearing it in Worf's voice. Hilarious!
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I couldn't help but read bubbles' last line in James Earl Jones's voice.
I imagined hearing it in Worf's voice. Hilarious!
Morgan Freeman, here.
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I couldn't help but read bubbles' last line in James Earl Jones's voice.
I imagined hearing it in Worf's voice. Hilarious!
Morgan Freeman, here.
All deep, solemn, male voices. Interesting.
Edit: Now, for fun, imagine Yoda's voice saying "Indeed... like fuck, it is."
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I couldn't help but read bubbles' last line in James Earl Jones's voice.
I imagined hearing it in Worf's voice. Hilarious!
Morgan Freeman, here.
All deep, solemn, male voices. Interesting.
Edit: Now, for fun, imagine Yoda's voice saying "Indeed... like fuck, it is."
If it helps, the other voice in my head is Kathryn Janeway's.
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If it helps, the other voice in my head is Kathryn Janeway's.
Sigourney Weaver as Ripley for me.
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I envy those who have voices for the characters.
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CW might be manipulative and mean, but she's at least as good a boss as Dora - even better when one considers she has yet to do anything hilariously shitty like firing someone over hugging their boyfriend.
Okay, while Dora was in the wrong, that is not a completely fair and accurate description of what happened.
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Quitting doesn't work if it's for someone else. You have to quit for you.
Not that simple; sometimes the first step is what keeps someone alive to be taken towards the second.
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Honestly, if I were to give Bubbles a voice, she'd sound very similar to Data - a male character, yes, but very breathy for a male.
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CW might be manipulative and mean, but she's at least as good a boss as Dora - even better when one considers she has yet to do anything hilariously shitty like firing someone over hugging their boyfriend.
Okay, while Dora was in the wrong, that is not a completely fair and accurate description of what happened.
If nothing else, I don't remember anyone getting fired over that incident.
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CW might be manipulative and mean, but she's at least as good a boss as Dora - even better when one considers she has yet to do anything hilariously shitty like firing someone over hugging their boyfriend.
Okay, while Dora was in the wrong, that is not a completely fair and accurate description of what happened.
If nothing else, I don't remember anyone getting fired over that incident.
Dora told Faye not to come into work in the morning. Whether that was a firing or a temporary "I can't look at you which means I don't want you in my coffee shop so don't come in" is up for debate, but either way, it's bad behavior on Dora's part.
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Maybe Bubbles has the same sounding voice as Bubbles from the Powerpuff Girls which is why her squad gave her the name.
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If it helps, the other voice in my head is Kathryn Janeway's.
Sigourney Weaver as Ripley for me.
Sort of a cross between Sigourney Weaver and Gwendoline Christie for me.
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CW might be manipulative and mean, but she's at least as good a boss as Dora - even better when one considers she has yet to do anything hilariously shitty like firing someone over hugging their boyfriend.
Okay, while Dora was in the wrong, that is not a completely fair and accurate description of what happened.
She changed her mind pretty soon after...but yeah, yeah it is. If it's not accurate, it's because the accurate version is worse.
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If it helps, the other voice in my head is Kathryn Janeway's.
Sigourney Weaver as Ripley for me.
Sort of a cross between Sigourney Weaver and Gwendoline Christie for me.
I hear her in the voice of Marlene Dietrich doing deadpan. :-D
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A little late to post this now, but I was secretly hoping that Faye was headed to a bar instead of a liquor store, and... "DAMMIT! what do you mean it burned down the other day?"
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Brayden x Jayden is my new otp