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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 03 Jul 2016, 11:08

Title: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 03 Jul 2016, 11:08
New week, new-ish poll.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Jul 2016, 11:33
I'm thinking something eccentric will happen. Bubbles will make a point of not persuading Faye not to drink. Faye gets more and more angry with her, accusing her of trying to use reverse psychology on her, something that Bubbles firmly denies doing. Faye gets more and more irate and actually persuades herself not to do it.

The confrontation ends with Faye smashing the bottle to the ground and yelling: "Well, I'm not fallin' off the wagon tonight and THAT'S FINAL!"

"Good," Bubbles rumbles. "I'm glad."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 03 Jul 2016, 12:15
I like the way you think


And it's not what's gonna happen
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jul 2016, 14:32
I agree with Kugai. I like that idea, bu I'm fair sure it is, in no way, what Jeph will be doing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 03 Jul 2016, 16:39
I think Faye is going to get drunk, go home, and be depressed.  Maybe, in coming weeks, she will be angry at herself because she feels angry at Bubbles and knows that it's not really Bubbles' fault.   Bubbles is going to go home and be worried.  Possibly she'll privately compare Faye's behavior to that of someone whom she's lost.  And then she'll be depressed too because she feels hopeless about it or helpless to do anything beneficial about it.

I expect longer term developments, but at the pace this comic is posted, and as many of the side issues as Jeph probably intends to explore, that's kind of all I expect for the next week.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jul 2016, 17:00
Well... Comic.

Looks like Bubbles didn't stop her...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: swapna on 03 Jul 2016, 17:44
Well... Comic.

Looks like Bubbles didn't stop her...

Would have been a bad idea anyway. Faye is surprisingly honest and not wrong in her analysis of her behaviour; she is much more relaxed than just moments prior. I'm not saying the booze is a good solution here, but both bubbles calmness, her not judging and of course the prospect of getting some relaxes Faye and she is letting her guard down. Maybe this is how she learns to deal with it, because avoiding/destroying it and then getting back into it once somebody compliments her on her sobriety isn't a good way to live.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 03 Jul 2016, 17:52
Didn't stop her... YET.  Faye still hasn't actually had any.  There's still time to change her mind!  (Unlikely though it is, IT COULD HAPPEN!)

In other news, Palkyrie is an awesome nickname and I wish Bubbles hadn't rejected it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Gladstone on 03 Jul 2016, 19:03
Bubbles isn't stopping Faye but she's slowly talking her down.  Maybe not completely--Faye's probably going to drink anyway, but she's not nearly as angry and frustrated as she would be if Bubbles had left her alone to drink by herself.  With Bubbles around to talk to, Faye has less reason to get blind, angry, the-world-can-go-to-hell drunk.  She might take a few swigs and decide she's making a mistake, she might finish the bottle and decide in the morning that she made a mistake, but Bubbles has already managed to calm her down, and is likely to keep her (somewhat) sober and talking for as long as she can.  Faye won't be going to the ER tonight.  Well, probably...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 03 Jul 2016, 19:19
Faye clearly understands Bubbles' reluctance to speak of issues that are like fuck.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jul 2016, 19:20
Bottle's open in the last panel. It's some sudden decision-making if Faye chooses not to drink it.

Then again, that would be one heck of a twist, where Faye goes from so flippant to recognizing it's a mistake. If she was alone, that would just lead her to drink more, but maybe, with Bubbles' help...

Eh.

I still expect it to be a relapse. It's rare, as I understand it, for an addict to go cold turkey without any relapses. It's a struggle, or so I've been told. For Faye to just stop drinking and for that to be the end of it, no more struggles, is unrealistic, even for a comic with AI and space-pizzas.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 03 Jul 2016, 19:43
This won't be the end of it, regardless of what happens this time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 03 Jul 2016, 20:56
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye? Doing so will just encourage her to keep drinking, and eventually may lead to horrible consequences for Marten. OTOH does he have it in him to tell her their time together as roommates is at an end? It's his only realistic choice if he wants to protect himself from Faye's addiction, but it's not an easy thing to do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 03 Jul 2016, 21:04
I'm looking at the background and, oh hell.

Is Faye about to get hammered in her workplace? Because it's sure not her apartment, unless she and Marten have done extensive redecorating that includes lockers and tanks of gas.

That's going to be bad, if so.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 03 Jul 2016, 21:11
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?

You think Marten should kick her out if she relapses just once? Why not just kick her out now and be done with it?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jul 2016, 21:48
I wonder if we'll find out Bubbles's story.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 03 Jul 2016, 21:58
I have faith in Faye.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mad Cat on 03 Jul 2016, 22:17
It's easy to be sultry when you know you're about to get drilled.

It's easy to be tired when you know you're about to get chiselled.

It's easy to be angry when you know you're about to get screwed.

It's easy to be afraid when you know you're about to get nailed.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 03 Jul 2016, 22:24
I'm looking at the background and, oh hell.

Is Faye about to get hammered in her workplace? Because it's sure not her apartment, unless she and Marten have done extensive redecorating that includes lockers and tanks of gas.

That's going to be bad, if so.

I think it's actually Bubbles' rooms at the arena/rink.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 03 Jul 2016, 22:55
I'm looking at the background and, oh hell.

Is Faye about to get hammered in her workplace? Because it's sure not her apartment, unless she and Marten have done extensive redecorating that includes lockers and tanks of gas.

That's going to be bad, if so.

I think it's actually Bubbles' rooms at the arena/rink.

So, technically, at Faye's workplace.  But she's clearly there to visit a friend, instead of work, so much more of a grey area than drinking at CoD was.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 03 Jul 2016, 23:16
She's off the clock, in other words.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 03 Jul 2016, 23:29
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?

You think Marten should kick her out if she relapses just once? Why not just kick her out now and be done with it?

She's already relapsed once. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2971) This is number two, and done quite deliberately.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Chronometry on 04 Jul 2016, 00:29
I know it's probably off-topic, but I saw the word "Bubs" and immediately thought... (http://www.homestarrunner.com/vcr_bubs.html)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jul 2016, 00:30
In Bubbles's defence, there is something about the nickname 'Bubs' that just doesn't scan right. I can fully understand not wanting to be referred by that!

What is her Dark SecretTM? It seems to be contextually linked to the suicide of Faye's dad. The best that I can come up with at this time is that one of Bubbles' closest buddies in the service cracked under the strain of combat and ate a bullet from his or her own gun. That could bite deep, especially if Bubbles had previously waved off her colleague's distress and had told them to 'toughen up'.

I'm looking at the background and, oh hell.

Is Faye about to get hammered in her workplace? Because it's sure not her apartment, unless she and Marten have done extensive redecorating that includes lockers and tanks of gas.

That's going to be bad, if so.

She's at the Skate Park but, no, she's not at the workplace; she's in Bubbles' private quarters at the Skate Park. So long as Faye doesn't cause any trouble or damage and so long as she's ready for her shift, I've got the feeling that Corpse Witch wouldn't care.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 04 Jul 2016, 00:58
Bubbles lost her entire squad. I imagine that has to be quite traumatic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 04 Jul 2016, 01:02
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?

You think Marten should kick her out if she relapses just once? Why not just kick her out now and be done with it?

She's already relapsed once. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2971) This is number two, and done quite deliberately.

There were never any consequences like that expressed for falling off the wagon the last time so why should this time be any different?  Even though things ultimately worked out after Faye was fired from Coffee of Doom evicting Faye would put a big wedge in their friendship and might make the situation worse since she doesn't have that many options as far as staying with other people.  And realistically speaking Marten needs a roommate to pay for the apartment anyway. 

Don't know why Bubbles vetoed Palkyrie.  That one is cute and clever. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Akima on 04 Jul 2016, 03:09
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?
Yes. I can't see Marten kicking Faye out, or walking out himself, over something like this. I don't think it would be a hard decision for him either.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Case on 04 Jul 2016, 03:30
"How about Bubbarella?"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jul 2016, 03:38
I don't know... I'm suddenly visualising Bubbles cosplaying Barbarella and it is a very, very challenging mental image.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: gopher on 04 Jul 2016, 03:51
"I went to rehab. My friends embraced me when I got out. You relapse,
it's not like that. "Get away from me" - that's what it's like." Leo - The West Wing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 04:11
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?

You think Marten should kick her out if she relapses just once? Why not just kick her out now and be done with it?

She's already relapsed once. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2971) This is number two, and done quite deliberately.

Okay, fine. Twice, then. Doesn't come close to changing my opinion. He won't kick her out. Assuming she does relapse again (it hasn't happened yet), she has been making a genuine effort, it's a tough monkey to kick, and Marten isn't an arsehole.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 04 Jul 2016, 05:54
Odd side bar: what regional accent do you all read Bubbles voice in?

For me it's sort of an even-toned Midwest cosmopolitan accent (think Dallas, Texas or Clevland, Ohio)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 04 Jul 2016, 06:29
I picture it as the neutral American media accent with little to no inflection.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 04 Jul 2016, 06:31
Odd side bar: what regional accent do you all read Bubbles voice in?

For me it's sort of an even-toned Midwest cosmopolitan accent (think Dallas, Texas or Clevland, Ohio)

To me, most American accents kinda sound alike (except those from the Deep South and perhaps Chicago), but I suppose the accent I imagine her using would be Midwestern. From what I gather, the accent I think of as "typical, usual American" is close to Midwestern, and I imagine most English-speaking characters using it unless there's an indication they might have a strong regional accent. I might be wrong, though. Maybe the accent I'm thinking of is nowhere near the Midwest.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: FacelessDeviant on 04 Jul 2016, 07:04
Honestly though, does Faye WANT to get fired?

Of all the places to pop a bottle open, she chose to do it on her workplace, where there are AI around that never sleeps and have access to all manners of high tech sensoring equipment?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: elfly on 04 Jul 2016, 07:41
Honestly though, does Faye WANT to get fired?

Of all the places to pop a bottle open, she chose to do it on her workplace, where there are AI around that never sleeps and have access to all manners of high tech sensoring equipment?

You mean the illegal robot colliseum?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: katsmeat on 04 Jul 2016, 07:49
Honestly though, does Faye WANT to get fired?

Of all the places to pop a bottle open, she chose to do it on her workplace, where there are AI around that never sleeps and have access to all manners of high tech sensoring equipment?

Corpse Witch isn't Dora. Provided Faye continues to do her job adequately, she's likely not care in the slightest.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jul 2016, 07:55
Honestly though, does Faye WANT to get fired?

Of all the places to pop a bottle open, she chose to do it on her workplace, where there are AI around that never sleeps and have access to all manners of high tech sensoring equipment?

You mean the illegal robot colliseum?

That'd be a good name for an industrial band.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Welu on 04 Jul 2016, 08:09
I assumed they went back to the skate-park because that's where Bubbles lives and Faye wouldn't want to drink in her own flat where Marten will see her. As patient and understanding as Bubbles is being with Faye, I highly doubt she'd let Faye drink and work. Especially when work involves metal and high temperatures. From the outside, Faye is off the clock and having a drink at a friend's place.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 04 Jul 2016, 08:21

There were never any consequences like that expressed for falling off the wagon the last time so why should this time be any different? 

If there are no consequences, then Marten becomes part of Faye's addiction. If Faye is consistently relapsing, then things will get worse and worse. Remember the trip to the hospital? Expect more of that. Also expect Faye to become more and more irresponsible, and for her drinking to have bad effects on those around her, including Marten. Eventually the friendship will be destroyed by her addictive behavior. If he wants to avoid that, the time to put a stop to it is now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: themacnut on 04 Jul 2016, 08:39
When Marten finds out, he's going to have some hard decisions to make. Will he stay in the roommate situation with a relapsing Faye?

You think Marten should kick her out if she relapses just once? Why not just kick her out now and be done with it?

She's already relapsed once. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2971) This is number two, and done quite deliberately.

And here's the thing about relapses; no-one, not even the addict themselves, knows how long they will last. Faye may just down this one bottle and then go back on the wagon, or this could be the start of a weeks- or months-long bender. During which time she may lose the job at the skate park (possibly after seriously injuring herself and/or damaging one of the fighting AIs due to trying to work while drunk) therefore losing another source of income and thus her ability to help Marten make the rent. If her alcoholism gets her and Marten evicted, that will almost certainly damage their friendship.

Of course, we still don't know what's going to happen here. Faye may still choose not to take that drink, or could decide not to get another bottle. The reasonable thing for Marten to do is keep a close eye on the situation to see how bad this relapse may be before making any decisions about whether to give Faye the proverbial boot from the apartment. He doesn't know about this potential relapse yet of course, but if it keeps up he will find out.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 04 Jul 2016, 09:46
As patient and understanding as Bubbles is being with Faye, I highly doubt she'd let Faye drink and work. Especially when work involves metal and high temperatures. From the outside, Faye is off the clock and having a drink at a friend's place.

Uh, right.  Metal and high temperatures and FRIENDS' LIVES. 

Don't forget, these two are essentially working as medics.  When surgeons go to work drunk, it's not them accidentally cutting themselves with the scalpel that's the main worry.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Jul 2016, 10:04
Good analogy except that her mistakes would be disfiguring or expensive, not lethal. That triple-reinforced core is designed to survive attacks by a combat chassis.

Come to think of it, though, I wouldn't take any bets on it surviving an accident with a cutting torch.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 04 Jul 2016, 10:50
Next strip: Bubbles takes a sip of booze and shorts out. Faye goes to rehab.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: elfly on 04 Jul 2016, 11:06
Total abstinence is kind of fucked up and probably leads to people relapsing in alcoholism over and over. The AA method of using guilt and telling people they can never become better about alcohol use is destructive and doesn't really work outside of a few extreme cases, which Faye probably doesn't fall into.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

Faye relearning how to drink like a normal person is probably a good thing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Jul 2016, 11:55
Total abstinence is kind of fucked up and probably leads to people relapsing in alcoholism over and over again

'Probably' being a key phrase, and 'kinda fucked up' is an opinion. I personally wouldn't exist if my mom hadn't gotten sober a few years before I was born. I can't, of course, say anything about my early years, but she's been sober for at least twenty, both my parents have. My dad went dry, too, just to show support.

The point is, it helps certain people. Others need alternate methods, but for some, total sobreity is what they need.

Side note, draining a bottle of bourbon on your own, in one night, as Faye's history would suggest she's about to do, is anything BUT 'drinking like a normal person.'
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: themacnut on 04 Jul 2016, 12:17
Total abstinence is kind of fucked up and probably leads to people relapsing in alcoholism over and over. ...
Faye relearning how to drink like a normal person is probably a good thing.

Alcoholics by definition can't deal with alcohol like normal people. Alcohol is generally a minefield for those who can't handle it well, and they're really much better off avoiding it entirely. Just like most people are better off staying far away from a literal minefield, leaving it to people with specialized training and equipment. Even for those people, minefields are still dangerous and need to be handled with care.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 04 Jul 2016, 15:03
I've known a bunch of addicts - including my dad, although he quit when I was still very short, so I mainly only ever saw long-term aftereffects with him - but I've personally just never seen any point in it or any reason to do it.  Alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, LSD, whatever.  It's just useless pointless crap to me.  It took me a long time to understand fully that it was a 'real' thing that people struggled with.  I feel lucky (and kinda guilty sometimes) when I see how hard other people have to fight to *not* do these things.  I've seen the struggle since long before I even realized what it was, I've learned the patterns, I know how the rationalization works...  but I've just never been there.   I guess I feel sort of like when I walk into Costco and see a row of TV sets priced over $1200.  People CARE that much about television?  Seriously? 

I grew up in a place where marijuana was easily available. Where it was, literally, a weed.  Pretty much any kid could take a walk down any creekbank on any Thursday afternoon in summer, and find a patch of it - none of it cultivated, or hidden, or anything, we just lived where it grew wild.  In places people passing through just literally pulled their cars over and cut fifty pounds of the stuff growing in the ditch whenever they felt like it.  It was free for the taking.  And so in my school there were a large number of people whose brains did in fact, yes, turn to mulch over the course of years of frequent, heavy, use.  Don't let people tell you marijuana has no long term effects - kids who smoked a pound of it a month for years starting at age twelve, reached mid high school with no functioning brains.

And all of that which I saw playing out around me at school - were to me just another case of boring stupid people doing boring stupid things. 

Except sometimes when the 'heads would do something exceptionally pathetically stupid, and then ...  it's insensitive as hell, but I was, like thirteen at the time and didn't care about the boring people anyway ...  I considered that kind of stuff just hilarious.  I stopped short of mocking them openly, but that was mostly because they were stupid boring people and I didn't care enough about them even to mock them.

Now I'm a grownup, and I see that sort of thing for tragedy of a pathetic sort - but I just couldn't have handled that much tragedy when I was a kid, so it was all just a big stupid joke played on stupid people. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 04 Jul 2016, 15:26
The difference between addicts and non-addicts is the don't have 'just a drink'. Complete abstinence is often the only way they have to deal with their problem. Because they can never have 'just a drink' to relax, or reward. One becomes two, becomes a bottle, becomes sneaking around and lying about drinking. Because living life while impaired because you are always drunk or hung over and craving.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 04 Jul 2016, 15:28
*Sigh*


I'll be over there ----------->



Let me know when Fayes funeral is




*Walks off shaking head slowly*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: elfly on 04 Jul 2016, 15:38
Total abstinence is kind of fucked up and probably leads to people relapsing in alcoholism over and over again
'Probably' being a key phrase, and 'kinda fucked up' is an opinion. I personally wouldn't exist if my mom hadn't gotten sober a few years before I was born. I can't, of course, say anything about my early years, but she's been sober for at least twenty, both my parents have. My dad went dry, too, just to show support.

With all due respect, this is not a good metric, cause any decision your mother or father had made would have ended up in you not existing, and possibly another pair of egg/sperm meeting and creating a different person, so ascribing any sort of special, dramatic significance to her alcohol consumption over which tv shows your mother watched, or which dress she chose to wear when she met your father. Any other decision would result in a different person from you existing.

My father also was what you'd define as an alcoholic, but nowadays he drinks occassionally; the important thing is not whether the way my father or mother drink alcohol is better than yours, but whether promoting that "alcoholics" cannot be around alcohol and have to quit completely is a reasonable position or not. It causes relapses and guilt and is definitely not a one size solution.

Alcoholics by definition can't deal with alcohol like normal people. Alcohol is generally a minefield for those who can't handle it well, and they're really much better off avoiding it entirely. Just like most people are better off staying far away from a literal minefield, leaving it to people with specialized training and equipment. Even for those people, minefields are still dangerous and need to be handled with care.

"Alcoholics by definition" is ... not a really good definition. People with alcohol abuse problems can learn to drink moderately. You are only perpetuating a view promoted by AA for religious reasons, defining a group of people as "dangerous around alcohol" forever, regardless of what they do. This is not a healthy view.

The difference between addicts and non-addicts is the don't have 'just a drink'. Complete abstinence is often the only way they have to deal with their problem. Because they can never have 'just a drink' to relax, or reward. One becomes two, becomes a bottle, becomes sneaking around and lying about drinking. Because living life while impaired because you are always drunk or hung over and craving.

There are better treatments for addictions than just going cold turkey and keep total abstinence forever. But for whatever reasons, the AA brand of being branded an alcoholic forever and having to keep living in abstinence your whole life or be deemed a failure took hold of the american thought.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 04 Jul 2016, 15:41
Odd side bar: what regional accent do you all read Bubbles voice in?

For me it's sort of an even-toned Midwest cosmopolitan accent (think Dallas, Texas or Clevland, Ohio)

To me, most American accents kinda sound alike (except those from the Deep South and perhaps Chicago), but I suppose the accent I imagine her using would be Midwestern. From what I gather, the accent I think of as "typical, usual American" is close to Midwestern, and I imagine most English-speaking characters using it unless there's an indication they might have a strong regional accent. I might be wrong, though. Maybe the accent I'm thinking of is nowhere near the Midwest.

Born and raised in Kansas. It's Mid-Western. Though in some parts it's just "the city folk" that talk like that. Some big cities will still have quite a few residents with a bit of rural drawl, namely Oklahoma City and any big city in Missouri
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 15:44

There were never any consequences like that expressed for falling off the wagon the last time so why should this time be any different? 

If there are no consequences, then Marten becomes part of Faye's addiction. If Faye is consistently relapsing, then things will get worse and worse. Remember the trip to the hospital? Expect more of that. Also expect Faye to become more and more irresponsible, and for her drinking to have bad effects on those around her, including Marten. Eventually the friendship will be destroyed by her addictive behavior. If he wants to avoid that, the time to put a stop to it is now.

Brasca never said "no consequences," just no consequences like that (i.e. being kicked out of her home). Neither did I say no consequences. Just that Marten won't kick her out unless Faye's behaviour gets a lot worse than what we've seen.

If Faye "consistently relapses" -- and I will remind you yet again that it's still only been once, and that doesn't count as consistently in the dictionary I have at hand -- if she does, then I am sure that there will be options available other than nothing (enabling) or kicking her out (I'm not a psychologist, but I imagine that being abandoned by her best friend won't make things better).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 04 Jul 2016, 16:19

Born and raised in Kansas. It's Mid-Western. Though in some parts it's just "the city folk" that talk like that. Some big cities will still have quite a few residents with a bit of rural drawl, namely Oklahoma City and any big city in Missouri

Yeah, TV stations used to recruit newscasters and stuff in Wichita KS, Kansas City MO, and Omaha NB because those particular accents sound "Neutral" to a most Americans.  I'm originally from Kansas myself.

There are a bunch of little regionalisms all over depending on who the first settlers in the area were and how long ago they arrived.  Usually though, so small that they're hard to notice.  Most places in Kansas, the main difference between urban and rural was the rate of speech; the urbans want you to talk a lot faster so they can say the answer they've already got in their heads before they even hear what you have to say, and the rurals don't trust or take seriously anyone who speaks faster than they believe s/he can think.  It has led to misunderstandings and tensions at times though most folk who go back and forth learn to 'mode-switch' as necessary.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Jul 2016, 17:13
Elfly, (removed by moderator), I say I would not exist because my parents were on the brink of divorce. Going sober saved the marriage. You are making literally the argument I made at 6 years old for why I would still exist if my parents hadn't met.

You say 'better.' I say 'other,' because some people cannot be around it and partake without it going further.

Also, guilt is not the basis of why AA works. AA works through support. If a group is telling someone they're 'lesser' because they relapsed, that is a shit group who doesn't understand what the organization is about. Any alcoholic could relapse. I have a friend who admitted recently through Facebook that they had, and she got nothing but support, not an inch of guilt-tripping. People shared stories about when THEY relapsed, to show solidarity, saying a relapse isn't the end of things.

Nobody calls someone a failure for relapse. That's not the way AA works.

I understand a distaste for the program. It's not perfect, so few things are. I do NOT understand whatever this campaign is that you're waging against a program that lots of people depend on and use to find help.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Isyrion on 04 Jul 2016, 17:58
I like the nick name Palkyrie but can see why Bubbles vetoed it.  Hopefully our large metal friend helps Faye get her head screwed back on straight.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 18:07
I've seen a decent amount of criticism of AA. It's not hard to find if you want to read it. I won't weigh in too heavily on that because I have no experience in this area, but I don't think it's too much of a long shot to say that it doesn't appear to work for everyone (I've seen success rates somewhere between 5-10% posted). There are alternatives that may work better for a substantial number of people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: swapna on 04 Jul 2016, 19:54
I understand a distaste for the program. It's not perfect, so few things are. I do NOT understand whatever this campaign is that you're waging against a program that lots of people depend on and use to find help.

Mostly because it's not the best way to treat people. If you have a better alternative with higher success rate which doesn't refuse to be studied (which we do), why not criticise the old?

It's been bugging me too, all that talk about 'Faye has to hit rock bottom' and 'as long as she has money, she'll use it on booze' when I suggested it might be kind of heartless to leave her completely without support/fire her on the spot. Addiction treatment doesn't work the same for everybody - some people find it works for them when they go cold turkey, some people stop gradually and some still partake now and again, but in controlled and "healthy" doses. The method that has a very low success rate is kicking people when they're down.

For now, Marten has no reason to kick her out; after she got fired, she immediately got a (better-paid) job, and she hasn't touched a drink for months. She also tries to not burden him with this, which is why she's at Palkyrie's place.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 04 Jul 2016, 20:03
[She also tries to not burden him with this, which is why she's at Palkyrie's place.

Doubt that. More likely she knows he'll do more than just stare disapprovingly, and also she feels guilty about it (rightly).
If Faye "consistently relapses" -- and I will remind you yet again that it's still only been once,
And I'll point out again that she's about to have her second relapse. Which she's hiding from Marten by doing it at Bubbles' place.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jul 2016, 20:19
Well, she might. We don't know yet.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 21:04
And I'll point out again that she's about to have her second relapse. Which she's hiding from Marten by doing it at Bubbles' place.

We're going around in circles. Two is not consistently either. How many more choruses do you want?

And it's not two yet.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: alanari on 04 Jul 2016, 22:14


Faye relearning how to drink like a normal person is probably a good thing.

An addict cannot and will never learn to drink normally again. A lot of them have tried. It's called "controlled drinking" and I have yet to read about a controlled drinker who did that long-term without relapse. Addiction doesn't work this way.

Addiction is a subconscious link between alcohol and certain happy hormones. The thing is, we don't control our subconscious mind. It controls us. Consciousness is a step behind, we don't do what we want, we want what we do. And it wants those happy-hormones.

If you are a heavy but non addicted drinker, you can change your drinking pattern. An addict can't.

I have addicts in my family, so I read a lot about their stories and how it works, to deal with them appropriately. I have read many stories from dry alcoholics who hadn't had a drink in 20 years. They have mostly happy, normal lives.
I have read one story from a "controlled drinker" who claims to have managed to do that for more than 2 years. His whole story was full of self-pity, no real self-reflection, which reached a high-point when he was contemplating about why he hit his woman in front of his kids on Christmas. He's a 100% wet alcoholic, he thinks like one, he acts like one (although most alcoholics use verbal aggression, not physical), he just doesn't want to see it and praises the advantages of controlled drinking wherever possible.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: wlewisiii on 04 Jul 2016, 22:18
Side note, draining a bottle of bourbon on your own, in one night, as Faye's history would suggest she's about to do, is anything BUT 'drinking like a normal person.'

Well, are we talking a pint, fifth, quart, half gallon ... butt? A pint is not really all that much in some places (Wisconsin deer hunting camp, forex) and Churchill was alleged to go through a quart an evening at the hight of WWII.

All of which is to say, intended humorously, is that everyone is different and that one person's normal is another person's excess and a third person's teatotalling.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 22:36
The suspense is killing me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 04 Jul 2016, 23:11
One thing to keep in mind when looking at the recovery rates for substance abuse is that they're actually in line with the numbers associated with other chronic illnesses that require lifestyle management, like diabetes and hypertension. So, you'd actually kind of expect that their long term success rate would be kinda wonky... Especially because the best rates of success require both a long term commitment and a personal investment that you don't necessarily get in programs that have been court ordered.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jul 2016, 23:19
I agree that court ordered rehabilitation is unlikely to be successful when the treatment requires a personal commitment (which I imagine pretty much any behavioural approach would).

After a bit of googling, I present this page purely for discussion: http://www.behaviortherapy.com/researchdiv/whatworks.aspx
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: syclick on 04 Jul 2016, 23:24
This may have been stated before, but I think one of the reasons Faye hasn't wanted a drink for so long is because she's been involved in helping others with their problems, particularly Bubbles. She's focused on other people's issues for so long that she's lost sight of her own problems. I have a feeling that's what might happen tonight... She starts focusing on Bubble's problems and her desperation for a drink diminishes. Just a guess.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jul 2016, 23:48
I'm expecting some serious emotional bonding and Faye to drink just enough to end up doing something completely ridiculously warm and affectionate like refusing to let Bubbles recharge without "someone nearby to chase away the nightmares". Final strip in the arc is Faye waking up with a sore... everything... from sleeping in Bubbles' lap overnight and not really remembering anything clearly. She starts to freak out until Bubbles tells her 'nothing untoward happened'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Jul 2016, 23:49
Welcome, insightful new person!

Other people's problems, maybe, or the same facts might also say that she's in a community and being productive.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 05 Jul 2016, 01:16
And this is when Faye decides to make a massive coffee cake.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jul 2016, 01:28
((Reads new comic)) Well, I didn't expect Faye's reaction to be so strong without so much as a word said! I think that Bubbles is not going to get anything done tonight; Faye's mental and emotional state will be too delicate for her to do anything but hug her as she cries.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 05 Jul 2016, 01:39
Faye - you can do this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Skewbrow on 05 Jul 2016, 01:47
Bubbles played this perfectly. Just the right amount of (lack of) pressure.

I am a bit uncertain about the theory that people recovering from alcoholism must be teetotallers. I believe the experts and the many stories that it is the only way. But have the patients really been "healed" unless they can use alcohol like normal people? I see the need to get used to the idea of not needing to drink, but... It somehow feels like full recovery could aim higher (if you want to call it that).

I guess it shows that I have never witnessed the struggles of a patient :-/
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: TinPenguin on 05 Jul 2016, 02:01
I think you may have a point, but I also think that most alcoholics never are 'fully healed'.

By the way, the numbers in the thread title are wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 05 Jul 2016, 02:23
I think that Bubbles is not going to get anything done tonight; Faye's mental and emotional state will be too delicate for her to do anything but hug her as she cries.

You say that as though you think holding someone while they're crying isn't doing anything important for someone's mental and emotional state? 

I think maybe you don't mean what it sounded like you meant?

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 05 Jul 2016, 02:25
OK, important disclaimer: I do not have professional knowledge regarding the biology or psychology of alcoholism. Whatever I say next is based on information I trust, but not information that has hard scientific data behind it, and it's information that I am not able to verify.

That being said:

I used to listen in to a weekly radio broadcast on a Polish radio station. The broadcast is half music, half stories and experiences regarding alcoholism. As the guy who runs the broadcast says every week, he's a long-time alcoholic, and he wanted to talk about his experience. So he went to the radio station and said "hey, let me talk about this". And they let him.

(I'm relaying the opening almost verbatim - well, except that "it's in Polish" part)

The broadcast alternated between taking calls from listeners (alcoholics, their families, friends) and talking to people who have had professional or semi-professional experience with treating addiction (to alcohol or drugs). That included doctors, workers at rehab centers, etc. It's also my strong impression the man running the show, in addition to having had experience of alcoholism firsthand, also did his homework on the effects of alcohol and how it is handled when trying to manage addiction.

One thing I remembered being said over and over and over again in the broadcast is this: alcoholism is a disease, it is an incurable disease and it is in the end a fatal disease. You can live with it, but it never goes away. This was repeated ad nauseam, to the point of almost being a mantra. Callers and guests to the show said things to the exact same effect. According to the broadcast, alcoholism is not something you recover from, not something you can cure, you can only opt to stop drinking. The most memorable thing about the show was that the guy running the broadcast introduced himself, every single time, as "I am [name] and I am an alcoholic". I happen to know a guy who is family with that man, and from I gather he has been clean for years and years now. But this very matter-of-fact and direct "I am an alcoholic" that was said every time is still something he decided to share with the audience every single week.

So, I don't have medical data regarding addiction, but if what I heard on that radio show is accurate, there is no such thing as fully recovering from alcoholism so that you can go back to drinking. You can be an alcoholic and function, you can be an alcoholic and appear to function, or you can be an alcoholic and it will damage your life and one day kill you. Both the explicit things said and the general vibe of the broadcast was that if you are an alcoholic and still drink, you still have a problem even if you appear to function OK. It may not kill you or ruin your life directly, but you're still not completely fine.

I thought I'd share this, I'm sure there's someone from the forum who has more grounded information regarding the medical side of things, but it appears to many, many alcoholics who decided to speak their mind on the show, it's either "drink" or "control your problem", with no real in-between.

And once again, take what I wrote with a grain of salt, I have no firm confirmation of this. But the stories I heard and the talks they had were very convincing. And they do mesh with the addiction problems I've seen in members of my close family and friends (mostly not alcohol-related, although it's there, too).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: alanari on 05 Jul 2016, 02:44
But have the patients really been "healed" unless they can use alcohol like normal people?

I understand the thought, but there is no healing or cure when it comes to addiction. It's a lifelong condition. An addict has this thing in his brain, I don't know the English name, the literal translation is "addiction memory". It never goes away and it doesn't allow a normal drinking pattern. It's what controls the whole behavior of an addict and is the reason why all addicts behave strikingly similar, regardless of which drug is used, including gambling.
When a clean addict starts taking his drug again, it slowly regains control over him. Inevitable. Can take days or years.. but it will happen.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 05 Jul 2016, 02:55
I wonder if we'll find out Bubbles's story.
She will tell it when she is damn good and ready and not a moment sooner.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: swapna on 05 Jul 2016, 03:12
When we're on the topic of anecdotal evidence - maybe the reason I feel different is because I've seen more than one way of how things like this could end.
I know alcoholics who can't and won't stop, people similar to those you're talking about, but I've also seen people who were blackout drunk on a regular basis (including hospital visits for said problem) for a while but then stopped gradually until they only drank safe amounts of it; it was a matter of both improving their life situations and ditching the people they  were drinking with. They still like to drink, and if you'd put the label 'alcoholic' on them, they'd be very guilty of regular relapses (and probably feel very guilty about it, too), but like this, it worked out guilt-free and just fine.
I've also seen people change with the help of treatment and medicine; successfully so, even though some aren't afraid of alcohol and still drink. They just do it in safe amounts and not alone. Some don't touch it, but that's just the solution that works for them.

I've seen similar things with other drugs; kicking the habit and the difficulty of doing so depends very much on the person, if they have support from their friends and family, if they figure out why they abuse those drugs so much, how long they've waited (drugs do a lot of damage) and how deep they're in the rabbit hole.

On the comic: Aww, Faye. Maybe she figured out that not all things are being shitty - Palkyrie (I'm going to use that name foreverrr... it is the best name!) is being a great friend, and her presence and her sympathetic microphone might stop Faye. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jul 2016, 03:43
I think that Bubbles is not going to get anything done tonight; Faye's mental and emotional state will be too delicate for her to do anything but hug her as she cries.

You say that as though you think holding someone while they're crying isn't doing anything important for someone's mental and emotional state? 

I think that you may be reading between the words and seeing things that aren't there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 05 Jul 2016, 03:47
I wonder if we'll find out Bubbles's story.
She will tell it when she is damn good and ready and not a moment sooner.

Agreed and maybe the need to be sober enough to hear it will compel Faye to stay on the wagon. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mad Cat on 05 Jul 2016, 03:59
In this strip: Bubs beams her evil robot mind control rays directly into Faye's frontal cortex, "You don't want to drink that alcohol. You won't drink that alcohol. You're gonna pour that alcohol into my fuel cell."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Welu on 05 Jul 2016, 04:49
:(
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Radium_Coyote on 05 Jul 2016, 06:01
Faye has always been a tougher bird than she realizes.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 05 Jul 2016, 06:05
Faye's putting up a fight (good for her!) and Bubbles is being the perfect friend. In QC, emotionally damaged folks (Hanners, Bubbles) can be terrific human beings people.

Faye's not out of the woods yet. Hope she makes it. If she does, she owes Bubbles big time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Wildroses on 05 Jul 2016, 06:07
I swear panel two Faye was hoping Bubbles would say something about how drinking was a bad idea, just so she could go: "You don't tell me what to do and to prove it I'm going to drink this now!" She does have a history of responding to all comments from friends suggesting restraint with alcohol by deciding to keep drinking or increase her drinking, even if they were only saying: "You know I think you might have had enough for tonight."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 05 Jul 2016, 06:46
Faye, drink your rotgut like a man, you little ****.

The difference between addicts and non-addicts is the don't have 'just a drink'. Complete abstinence is often the only way they have to deal with their problem. Because they can never have 'just a drink' to relax, or reward. One becomes two, becomes a bottle, becomes sneaking around and lying about drinking. Because living life while impaired because you are always drunk or hung over and craving.
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.

That said, when multi day heavy binges once become the norm, it's pretty hard to stay in any kind of moderation, hence going completely dry or one becomes one of those funny tragic characters who stay months dry at times and then have a few days of total mayhem every once in a while.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 05 Jul 2016, 06:55
Awww, drink your rotgut like a man, you little ****.

The difference between addicts and non-addicts is the don't have 'just a drink'. Complete abstinence is often the only way they have to deal with their problem. Because they can never have 'just a drink' to relax, or reward. One becomes two, becomes a bottle, becomes sneaking around and lying about drinking. Because living life while impaired because you are always drunk or hung over and craving.
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.

Not that simple.  I enjoy the occasional drink with dinner or having a beer while watching a football game, but if I've ever been drunk, then it is a seriously disappointing experience.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3251-3255 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: alanari on 05 Jul 2016, 07:14
When we're on the topic of anecdotal evidence - maybe the reason I feel different is because I've seen more than one way of how things like this could end.

Not everyone who drinks heavily is addicted. There are people with horrid alcohol intake without addiction. Those can return to a normal drinking schedule. Most teens to that when they grow out of the "being drunk is cool"-age.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 05 Jul 2016, 07:22
At least I get pretty strong euphoria from heavy drinking.

Long binges are the worst though, it doesn't even work properly from the third day on. No thank you. :psyduck:

Still I really despise cultures that try to chain drinking into that laughable one to two with food kind of pretention, when total bliss is but few shots away. Perverted. Much preferable are the cultures that do allow the few national get wasted days a year. That's a communal thing like some ayahuasca ritual in deep amazon, a cleansing ritual by its truest nature.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: MooskiNet on 05 Jul 2016, 08:08
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.

One of the hardest ideas to internalize is the concept that not everyone's experiences mirror our own, even when the experiences appear identical.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Jul 2016, 08:22
I think that Bubbles is not going to get anything done tonight; Faye's mental and emotional state will be too delicate for her to do anything but hug her as she cries.

You say that as though you think holding someone while they're crying isn't doing anything important for someone's mental and emotional state? 

I think maybe you don't mean what it sounded like you meant?

I can't speak for BenRG but if he meant that Bubbles won't get any housework or correspondence or leisure projects done, that would make sense. The Pugnacious Peach is going to need full-time attention for a while.

Which starts an interesting thought. What kind of distorted workaholic culture produced me that I can unquestioningly read "not going to get anything done" about someone helping a friend in crisis, and think it makes sense at first?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 05 Jul 2016, 08:40
There's a concept in Homestuck called moirallegiance. It's a sort of platonic life partnership, where two very different people agree to balance one another out and help each other through life. I think Marten and Faye previously had that sort of relationship, but it looks like Faye is beginning to switch to Bubbles for that kind of support (which makes me wonder: will Marten gain another Faye in his life, or will he learn to live without someone like that in his life?).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 05 Jul 2016, 08:44
I think that Bubbles is not going to get anything done tonight; Faye's mental and emotional state will be too delicate for her to do anything but hug her as she cries.
You say that as though you think holding someone while they're crying isn't doing anything important for someone's mental and emotional state? 
I think that you may be reading between the words and seeing things that aren't there.
Oh good; I've rarely been happer to've been wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: JimC on 05 Jul 2016, 08:45
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.
One of the hardest ideas to internalize is the concept that not everyone's experiences mirror our own, even when the experiences appear identical.
Mmm. Personally I enjoy certain alcoholic drinks, and I really hate the fact that, if I wanted, for example to spend an evening enjoying a selection of vintage Scotch whiskies, by the 3rd or 4th all discrimination and appreciation of the taste would be gone. Always frustrated me about beer festivals too: there might be 20 or 30 brews I'd rather like to try, but actually it became pointless after four or five.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 05 Jul 2016, 08:49
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.

One of the hardest ideas to internalize is the concept that not everyone's experiences mirror our own, even when the experiences appear identical.

Yea, I know a guy who microdoses on psychedelics too, like multiple times a month or more. I see it and understand why but simultaneously acknowledge that's not productive for me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 05 Jul 2016, 09:33
Faye...drink, drink, drink...it will all be better soon. :-)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 05 Jul 2016, 09:55
Wild guess: tomorrow we´ll see a picture of a surprised Corpse Witch, listening to the sound of something made of glass bursting on a wall.

Also: new faces again.  :-o
I´m once again amazed how Jeph manages to visualize the inner turmoil and fight Faye goes through. Is someone else reminded of Gavia crying after realizing she´s lost her nanotech?

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: anahata on 05 Jul 2016, 12:07
Faye's putting up a fight (good for her!) and Bubbles is being the perfect friend. In QC, emotionally damaged folks (Hanners, Bubbles) can be terrific human beings people.

They certainly can,  but the wounded healer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_healer) is not a new idea, nor exclusive to QC.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: anahata on 05 Jul 2016, 12:18
I´m once again amazed how Jeph manages to visualize the inner turmoil and fight Faye goes through.

In those frames I'm seeing Faye coming to the startling inner revelation that what she's about to do won't actually make her feel any better. It would be amazing if she put the bottle down and admitted that she couldn't do it.

Bubbles has been masterful, by simply asking Faye to explain her motivation and thus make her think about what she's doing and why, and see how irrational it is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 05 Jul 2016, 12:20
That's pretty fucked up too. People drink to get drunk. Period.
One of the hardest ideas to internalize is the concept that not everyone's experiences mirror our own, even when the experiences appear identical.
Mmm. Personally I enjoy certain alcoholic drinks, and I really hate the fact that, if I wanted, for example to spend an evening enjoying a selection of vintage Scotch whiskies, by the 3rd or 4th all discrimination and appreciation of the taste would be gone. Always frustrated me about beer festivals too: there might be 20 or 30 brews I'd rather like to try, but actually it became pointless after four or five.

Same here. I guess one benefit for me of being a former binge drinker is that I know how many drinks it takes before I stop enjoying the taste - or even tasting the taste. Back in the day, I would have happily dulled my taste buds in order to be able to drink down nasty swill, but now that I'm older (and hopefully, wiser), I prefer to just buy good stuff and drink it sparingly so that I can appreciate the good stuff. It takes me anywhere from six months to a year to get through a bottle, and at that rate, I can afford to spring for something that isn't rotgut liquor, wino wine, or watery beer.

So yeah. I'm another person who doesn't drink to get drunk (although I used to be, back in my 20s). I'd say that the only reason to drink crappy stuff is to get drunk, but not all alcohol is Budweiser, MD 20/20 and Bacardi.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 05 Jul 2016, 12:52
Wild guess: tomorrow we´ll see a picture of a surprised Corpse Witch, listening to the sound of something made of glass bursting on a wall.

Also: new faces again.  :-o
I´m once again amazed how Jeph manages to visualize the inner turmoil and fight Faye goes through. Is someone else reminded of Gavia crying after realizing she´s lost her nanotech?

TM

I definitely saw the similarity.  They're both mourning losses although Faye has had a lot longer to get used to hers. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Jul 2016, 14:07
Faye has lost a home, namely the old Coffee of Doom atmosphere.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 05 Jul 2016, 14:12
So yeah. I'm another person who doesn't drink to get drunk (although I used to be, back in my 20s). I'd say that the only reason to drink crappy stuff is to get drunk, but not all alcohol is Budweiser, MD 20/20 and Bacardi.

Agreed.  Some of it is decent quality single malt, like Glenlivet, Glenfiddich, and Dalmore, which have a smooth, enjoyable taste I wouldn't want to destroy by dulling the palate.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: improvnerd on 05 Jul 2016, 14:15
I so want Wednesday's strip to be Bubbles helping Faye get the bottle to her lips.

I mean, she looks like she's having so much trouble doing it on her own....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 05 Jul 2016, 15:23
Faye has lost a home, namely the old Coffee of Doom atmosphere.

Losses beget losses.  The source of her self destructive behavior was the suicide of her father and even though she can talk about it with nonchalance it still affects her behavior and leads to new losses.  Even though Angus was leaving to take a new job she could've tried to make a long distance relationship work, but chose to end it and then regretted it so much she started drinking which lead to her termination at Coffee of Doom.  She seemed to have gotten over all that until she was reminded that her old workplace isn't the same and she can't return to the place it used to be only what it is now. 

She's giving a toast to everything being shitty and while that is true of the past her present really isn't all that bad.  She's still got friends and a job she likes and could possibly build on that and have a better future. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 05 Jul 2016, 16:22
Put. The. Bottle. DOWN. Faye
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Jul 2016, 16:29
I think you may have a point, but I also think that most alcoholics never are 'fully healed'.

By the way, the numbers in the thread title are wrong.

I assume one of the mods caught it; I didn't see anything wrong with the numbers/etc.

I have faith in Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 05 Jul 2016, 16:55
This could be a pivotal moment for Faye. Potentially.

This is about more than beating her alcohol addiction. It is about facing demons she has been running away from for a very long time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 05 Jul 2016, 18:27
I so want Wednesday's strip to be Bubbles helping Faye get the bottle to her lips.

I mean, she looks like she's having so much trouble doing it on her own....

I can't tell if Faye is trying to stop herself, or if she's trying really hard to take a drink...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 05 Jul 2016, 19:13
I so want Wednesday's strip to be Bubbles helping Faye get the bottle to her lips.

I mean, she looks like she's having so much trouble doing it on her own....

I can't tell if Faye is trying to stop herself, or if she's trying really hard to take a drink...

I think it's both.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Jul 2016, 19:42
It reminds me of something that happened to me at a party long ago. I was handed a drink by a friend and told to drink it. I raised the cup to my mouth, but when it was about an inch away from my lips the odor of the drink hit my nose. I was then literally unable to move my hand closer to my mouth - I was willing it to happen but my hand wouldn't move. The drink, I found out later, contained cinnamon schnapps, tabasco sauce, jalapeno peppers, and quite a bit of Everclear, and had a particularly pungent odor that must have triggered some survival reflex that was not under my conscious control.

Anyway, it looks like something similar is happening to Faye here. She is willing her hand to move the bottle to her mouth, but her hand isn't listening. Something deep insider her knows she really shouldn't do this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: WareWolf on 05 Jul 2016, 20:03
Faye's description of what being an addict feels like (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2979) really hit home with me last time.

Me too. It's strips like that that keep me coming back.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: WareWolf on 05 Jul 2016, 20:04

I can't tell if Faye is trying to stop herself, or if she's trying really hard to take a drink...

Yes.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: WareWolf on 05 Jul 2016, 20:05
Faye has lost a home, namely the old Coffee of Doom atmosphere.

Booze will always offer you a home.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 05 Jul 2016, 21:22
"Dammit Bubs, stop being nonchalant at me!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 05 Jul 2016, 22:36
I know I usually come to this forum to complain about things that bug me, so I'd just like to take this moment to buck the trend and say that it's story arcs and comics like these which keep me reading QC.
Jeph, I tip my hat to thee.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: St.Clair on 05 Jul 2016, 23:17
In those frames I'm seeing Faye coming to the startling inner revelation that what she's about to do won't actually make her feel any better.

And the even more crushing one that, possibly, nothing will.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2016, 00:10
I'm not cold hearted but to me Faye is just an irritant in an otherwise excellant comic, if she could just sort of go away and only ever be seen occasionally then this comic would be a lot better and more time could be devoted to more interesting characters

 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 06 Jul 2016, 00:15
Life is very short and there's no tiIIime!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Indicible on 06 Jul 2016, 00:24
Speaking from experience, punching a wall without protection hurts. Like big purple and blue knuckles hurt.
In any romantic film, this is where the good friend admits to having a crush on the crying character and things look up from that moment on, but I think we are safe on that front. Gotta admit I do not know where this is going, but the ride is enjoyable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DSL on 06 Jul 2016, 00:28
I'm thinking that's a punching bag, based on the apparent give under the pinches and what looks like part of an "Everlast" label -- Everlast being a well-known-to-the-point-of-cliche brand name of sporting equipment associated with the giving and receiving of punches.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: lawoot on 06 Jul 2016, 00:29
Speaking from experience, punching a wall without protection hurts. Like big purple and blue knuckles hurt.

True, but she seems to be hitting a punching bag (of which Bubbles has a large supply).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Fen on 06 Jul 2016, 00:42
Don't those also hurt like a mofo without protection?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 06 Jul 2016, 00:48
Well, it looks like Faye found another way to work out her frustrations  :)

Bubbles will need to order more Punching Bags
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: JimC on 06 Jul 2016, 00:49
Don't those also hurt like a mofo without protection?
Perhaps that's the point of the exercise.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: anahata on 06 Jul 2016, 01:11
In those frames I'm seeing Faye coming to the startling inner revelation that what she's about to do won't actually make her feel any better.
And the even more crushing one that, possibly, nothing will.

Not so sure about that. Tova nailed it here:

This is about more than beating her alcohol addiction. It is about facing demons she has been running away from for a very long time.

If she manages to do that (which the current catharsis suggests she is) I think she will eventually feel better. Not blissfully happy (though there might be moments of that too) but at least some freedom from having her entire emotional life tainted by what happened years ago.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 06 Jul 2016, 01:27
Don't those also hurt like a mofo without protection?

Assuming you're referring to punching bags? Not really. If you have skin that's not conditioned to punching, you might get some skin off your knuckles and such, but it's an inconvenience at worst, by no means a serious injury. You might get sore fingers if you overdo it, which will be unpleasant for a day or so, but the whole point of a punching bag is to provide a safe surface for hitting.

People train bare-handed by punching things less pleasant than a punching bag (like makiwaras: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makiwara ), and it's still for the most part safe for the hand.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 06 Jul 2016, 03:27
Well, it looks like Faye found another way to work out her frustrations  :)

Bubbles will need to order more Punching Bags

This confirms that she replaced the last ones she destroyed.  I had a feeling this might happen since it was the way Bubbles vented during one of her breakdowns and it's really a better way of getting rid of self destructive tendencies than getting drunk. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Carl-E on 06 Jul 2016, 05:56
Punching dad. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Jul 2016, 07:20
I'm not cold hearted but to me Faye is just an irritant in an otherwise excellant comic, if she could just sort of go away and only ever be seen occasionally then this comic would be a lot better and more time could be devoted to more interesting characters

She's one of the main characters and has been since day one. Almost anything long running that loses a main character way into its run is a sign of idea drought.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2016, 09:31
I feel a hug from Bubbles coming on but it would be unusual for Bubbles to do that. She wouldn't stop Faye from grabbing her and crying on her shoulder, though.

"Yes, yes. Snot on my shirt, That's what friends are for." Yes, it is.

Having Bubbles there as a reference point, as an anchor, may have been a huge help.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 06 Jul 2016, 09:58
I think todays comic is pretty much self-explaining. Beating something (not someone) up when "everythings beeing shitty" is a very good way to deal with the anger and frustration. It doesn´t solve any problems of cause, but it surely helps to get a clearer view on things.
And I´m curious if the bottle is still in one piece.   :roll:
I hope Faye didn´t succomb to her addiction before loosening hell upon that punchingbag. If she stayed away from the booze, this is a big succes for her and I hope she will realise that soon.

And beautiful artwork today. Again. Like so many times in the last few weeks.
It almost feels banal to mention it, but Jeph is taking QC to a new level of graphic quality right as we witness it. Just compare the facial expressions, the details in the background and panel layout to the strips from a year ago.
The tension, the anger and the fear are almost feelable. It really hurts to watch Faye here.
Amazing.

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Jul 2016, 12:08
Bubbles probably told Faye that a punching bag is a good option when you desperately need to hit something, especially if that thing is the face that you see every day in the mirror!

Poor Faye! Jeph does an excellent job at communicating Faye's emotional turmoil here without a single word. I don't think that anyone, even she, realised just how much pain that there was in her heart! The question is: when the pain is gone, what will be left behind?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Jul 2016, 13:02
What makes you think the pain goes away, ever?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 06 Jul 2016, 14:09
You know what would be the classiest possible way to finish this situation?

Marten & Faye apartment, enter Faye holding a whiskey bottle in her hands
Marten: <sniffs>
Faye: Keep this safe for me, I may yet open it again in one day but that day is not today.
<Faye goes to her room saying nothing>
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 06 Jul 2016, 14:10
The question is: when the pain is gone, what will be left behind?

This is a question I used to ask of myself all the time. For a long time I was scared to make any progress on my depression. It had been such a defining part of my life for so long that I was afraid I wouldn't know who I was without it.

What makes you think the pain goes away, ever?

It doesn't, really, but it can become manageable. It can become more background noise than the main attraction.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 06 Jul 2016, 14:30
You know what would be the classiest possible way to finish this situation?

Marten & Faye apartment, enter Faye holding a whiskey bottle in her hands
Marten: <sniffs>
Faye: Keep this safe for me, I may yet open it again in one day but that day is not today.
<Faye goes to her room saying nothing>

Marten would dump the bottle. They already cleared the rest of the apartment (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2887) of temptations. The last thing an alcoholic needs is a known bottle of booze in his/her living space.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 06 Jul 2016, 15:27
You know what would be the classiest possible way to finish this situation?

Marten & Faye apartment, enter Faye holding a whiskey bottle in her hands
Marten: <sniffs>
Faye: Keep this safe for me, I may yet open it again in one day but that day is not today.
<Faye goes to her room saying nothing>

Marten would dump the bottle. They already cleared the rest of the apartment (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2887) of temptations. The last thing an alcoholic needs is a known bottle of booze in his/her living space.

The point is, she needs to beg Marten for it, or snatch it, which would be only worse. She could only reclaim it after some considerable time, while in content state of mind. I see it could work.

it's not like alcoholics would not have lapses. That's how you know you are an alcoholic, when a "lapse" results into a type of drinking pattern it could justifiable be called a lapse.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Jul 2016, 16:05
You know what would be the classiest possible way to finish this situation?

Marten & Faye apartment, enter Faye holding a whiskey bottle in her hands
Marten: <sniffs>
Faye: Keep this safe for me, I may yet open it again in one day but that day is not today.
<Faye goes to her room saying nothing>

Marten would dump the bottle. They already cleared the rest of the apartment (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2887) of temptations. The last thing an alcoholic needs is a known bottle of booze in his/her living space.

The point is, she needs to beg Marten for it, or snatch it, which would be only worse. She could only reclaim it after some considerable time, while in content state of mind. I see it could work.

it's not like alcoholics would not have lapses. That's how you know you are an alcoholic, when a "lapse" results into a type of drinking pattern it could justifiable be called a lapse.

This a big pile of misguidedness.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 06 Jul 2016, 16:27

This a big pile of misguidedness.
Maybe so.

If there's any insight in my rambling, what about. Couldn't you agree she god called out pertty early for her problems? She surely seems to be far from the level when one needs rehab and or AA.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 06 Jul 2016, 16:40
I'm not cold hearted but to me Faye is just an irritant in an otherwise excellant comic, if she could just sort of go away and only ever be seen occasionally then this comic would be a lot better and more time could be devoted to more interesting characters

Now see, This is probably the best way to approach dislike of Faye diplomatically.  As opposed to my method, which got me a stern talking to.  I'm not cold-hearted, either.  But a lot about Faye rubs me the wrong way and she would be the kind of person in real life I would not bother associating with.  I knew several like her in my past, now a bit more distant (It seems I have been here a few years) than it was when I first made my anti-Faye outbursts, and she reminded me a LOT of them.

That being said, she is a well-written character -- so much so that she reminds me of real people.  Whom I still will not associate with.

Ironically, today's strip is probably the first time I can wholly relate to Faye - beating the everloving dogshit out of a heavy bag because like fuck.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2016, 17:13
Quote
That being said, she is a well-written character -- so much so that she reminds me of real people.  Whom I still will not associate with.

Which is not far at all from what Jeph himself said. He has fun writing Faye but would not like a real-life version of her. I've learned to avoid her type myself.

That "reminds me of real people" thing is a sign of good art(mod), but good lord, it can make my job harder(/mod). Dora has also punched a lot of people's buttons, and people who've been around irresponsible drug users get instantly angry at Tai.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 06 Jul 2016, 17:16
When readers' unresolved anger is brought to the surface by QC characters, moderating would indeed ... be like fuck.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2016, 17:20
I'm not cold hearted but to me Faye is just an irritant in an otherwise excellant comic, if she could just sort of go away and only ever be seen occasionally then this comic would be a lot better and more time could be devoted to more interesting characters

That being said, she is a well-written character -- so much so that she reminds me of real people.  Whom I still will not associate with.

Ironically, today's strip is probably the first time I can wholly relate to Faye - beating the everloving dogshit out of a heavy bag because like fuck.

For me its her behaviour towards Marten has always seemed to me to one of a bully and an abuser and while I get that Marten has brought it on himself there were also times when she'd start to bully Claire and all because Faye Had A Traumatic Experience, whereas I'd rather see more stuff like Marten dealing with the issues of dating Claire
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Jul 2016, 17:33
I'm not cold hearted but to me Faye is just an irritant in an otherwise excellant comic, if she could just sort of go away and only ever be seen occasionally then this comic would be a lot better and more time could be devoted to more interesting characters

That being said, she is a well-written character -- so much so that she reminds me of real people.  Whom I still will not associate with.

Ironically, today's strip is probably the first time I can wholly relate to Faye - beating the everloving dogshit out of a heavy bag because like fuck.

For me its her behaviour towards Marten has always seemed to me to one of a bully and an abuser and while I get that Marten has brought it on himself there were also times when she'd start to bully Claire and all because Faye Had A Traumatic Experience, whereas I'd rather see more stuff like Marten dealing with the issues of dating Claire

Quoting this so I remember to reply in the morning
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 06 Jul 2016, 17:53
Honestly, no QC character has really rubbed me the wrong way. Yeah, they've all been jerks at times, but I pretty much always tend to empathize. I guess the one exception would be Marigold and her at-times ridiculous immaturity, but part of that's because she reminds me of myself.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 06 Jul 2016, 18:33
Honestly, no QC character has really rubbed me the wrong way.

Conversely, every QC character has pissed me off. That's why I like this comic though - it lets me read about fictional people who piss me off, and then I get over it and start to like the character. That's completely unlike the real world, where the people who piss me off seem to keep on doing it and I rarely get to move on to the "start to like them" phase.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 06 Jul 2016, 19:11
You don't usually get the kinds of opportunities to get to know and understand people who piss you off that you get reading QC.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 06 Jul 2016, 21:02
See, if anything, the character I dislike the least is Dora. Faye's trauma just seems far more relatable and sympathetic. Additionally, her toxic behavior has (mostly) just been self-destructive. Her story is depressing, sad, and all-too familiar. I can feel a lot worse for a character when they truly seem to be a victim rather than an antagonist. (And yes, before anyone points it out, I know Faye can be prickly and rude, but how often has she actually tried to hurt someone (Emotionally or physically) when it wasn't in the defense of one of her friends? Arm punches and snippy jokes don't count.)

Dora, on the other hand, leads a (relatively speaking) charmed life. Her parents are cool, she's running a very successful small business, and the biggest real grievance in her life is that her brother is more successful than she is. So while she's not just prickly but toxic to those around her, she's vindictive, (to be fair, she's gotten less bad in more recent comics,) she's just not a character whom I care for at all. (Also, not to rehash this discussion, but: While she was in the right for firing Faye, the way she handled that situation was just terrible.)


If anyone had to get eaten by an Allosaurus and disappear from QC, I'd take Dora any day. Faye has problems, but they're the kind of problems that make her sympathetic and make her story sad, not the kind of problems that make her an irritant. (In my opinion.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 06 Jul 2016, 21:36
Marten & Faye apartment, enter Faye holding a whiskey bottle in her hands
Marten: <sniffs>
Faye: Keep this safe for me, I may yet open it again in one day but that day is not today.
<Faye goes to her room saying nothing>

<Faye wakes up to a big plate of crèpes flambée.>
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Jul 2016, 21:50
<Faye's apartment burns down again.>
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 06 Jul 2016, 22:35
Trying this hard is probably the best attempt she had made to stop blaming everyone. All the issues she faced is finally coming to head. If she gets over it, maybe martin and her will work out.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Indicible on 06 Jul 2016, 22:41
The bottle looks full, but the colour is off. Did Jeph make a mistake on that one? In any case, if the bottle is still full, that is big. If it is not, it is still big, but not in a good way.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Magniras on 06 Jul 2016, 22:52
The bottle looks full, but the colour is off. Did Jeph make a mistake on that one? In any case, if the bottle is still full, that is big. If it is not, it is still big, but not in a good way.

Weird lighting, coupled with whiskey on dark red makes it look like that.  But the bottle is still full.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 06 Jul 2016, 22:53
The label also doesn't fully encompass the bottle - only that one section is left. Bubbles may have re-purposed the bottle, looks like it's filled with water ATM (little bit of color due to being transparent and showing Bubbles). That is kinda odd, I'd say it's maybe a mistake if it isn't really explained or important. Maybe I'm missing something though.

EDIT: There also what appears (to me at least) to be some of the whiskey on the floor in the background. It could also just be stuff from the workplace though - but that's why I say water, since the whiskey seems to be on the floor now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 06 Jul 2016, 22:54
Well done, Faye. Respect.  :-)

She didn´t succomb to her addiction, she let off some steam and now she´s gonna get a good nights sleep over it. Maybe she´ll talk to Marty in the morning. Or maybe not. It doesn´t really matter. The important thing is, that she didn´t give in to this temptation, no matter how big it was. And when she realises that it was her own strength that allowed her to do so, it´ll be a big effort for her.

Go Faye, you can make it.

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Y on 06 Jul 2016, 23:00
That almost looks like Bubbles is going to drink it. I don't know what visions that will give her, or perhaps it's like some essential coolant/fuel like it is with Bender.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2016, 23:08
Quote
how often has she actually tried to hurt someone (Emotionally or physically) when it wasn't in the defense of one of her friends? Arm punches and snippy jokes don't count.)

Not often. The only example I can think of right away was telling Wil that the way to Pennelope's heart was to talk about Hemingway.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Jul 2016, 23:10
The bottle was still full.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 06 Jul 2016, 23:20
I thought she may have drained it out the window, hence Bubbles' looking out and holding it, but then I spotted the Liquid Line against her shoulder.

Well done Faye
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 06 Jul 2016, 23:22
That almost looks like Bubbles is going to drink it. I don't know what visions that will give her, or perhaps it's like some essential coolant/fuel like it is with Bender.

Maybe she's just going to smell it.  Hope she doesn't find herself in a circus with pink elephants since that seems a little too obvious trip. 

Perhaps Faye took a drink, but she didn't finish which is better than downing the whole bottle or going on a bender or maybe she abstained completely.  At least she seems to have found a better way to resolve her anger than what's she been doing.   
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 06 Jul 2016, 23:24
No, it looks like it's full.  I think she came close, but managed to stop herself and then took it out on one of Bubbles Punching Bags before heading home.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Timemaster on 06 Jul 2016, 23:29
I think I see a slight, brief smile in Bubbles face in the last panel.
She´s proud of Faye. And happy, that she didn´t drink.

Well done, Bubbles. You really are a good friend.

TM
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Near Lurker on 06 Jul 2016, 23:30
This seems like a sweet gesture on the part of Bubbles until you learn she just saw a Futurama marathon.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 06 Jul 2016, 23:32
Bubbles ain't no Bender

She's more like a Pretzeler


:-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Jul 2016, 23:37
I can't blame Faye for not wanting to talk to Marten about her near-miss. However, I'm not sure that keeping secrets is the best thing for her attempt to control her condition. She needs to understand the limits of her own strength. She doesn't need to give any details; just expand a little bit on a 'rough day'. Tell the guys at the support group if she feels unable to tell Marten. She needs to tell Marten something, though; he's got to have noticed that she's been crying!

What is Bubbles doing? I think that she's considering the trophy of a battle won before dropping it in the dumpster.

I also believe that this is the first time that we've seen her smile when tea is not involved!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: improvnerd on 06 Jul 2016, 23:53
Jeph tweaked the colors to make it  clearer what's going on in the last panel:

http://jephjacques.com/post/147032061155/i-tweaked-the-colors-to-make-it-a-little-clearer

(Should show up on the regular site once the cache updates.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 07 Jul 2016, 00:18
She worked out the stress. Good for her. Bubbles might use this to confront corpse bride
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oeoek on 07 Jul 2016, 00:35
That almost looks like Bubbles is going to drink it. I don't know what visions that will give her, or perhaps it's like some essential coolant/fuel like it is with Bender.

Bubbles... Bubs, Bubbarella: NO!

ps: and what's with that pool of blood seeping from underneath a box in the background of the last frame?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: TinPenguin on 07 Jul 2016, 00:45
That's a pool of whisky that spilled from the bottle as Faye ejected it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: anahata on 07 Jul 2016, 02:13
That almost looks like Bubbles is going to drink it.

That's what I really thought at first. Just as Faye comes to terms with the fact that it won't help with her problems, Bubbles is wondering what it would do for her own...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Jul 2016, 02:22
I have to say that this week of comics has probably been Jeph's greatest work to date. Faye's expression, the red eyes, the low-key way in which this all happened - that Faye actually used a tremendously weak excuse to go and buy some drink in the first place, but that is absolutely typical of an addict.

For me its her behaviour towards Marten has always seemed to me to one of a bully and an abuser and while I get that Marten has brought it on himself there were also times when she'd start to bully Claire and all because Faye Had A Traumatic Experience, whereas I'd rather see more stuff like Marten dealing with the issues of dating Claire

This post suggests to me that you've not spent a lot of time around people who are damaged, or if you have that they are people who have dealt with it extremely well. If my father had killed himself in front of me when I was a child I would doing all the drugs to cope with that information. That would cause tremendous psychological damage. People who lash out at others aren't necessarily just assholes. Few actually are at all. They've been through things that have caused them to push others away when they want to accept them. I work with at risk teenagers and I can tell you, I wish even half of them were as pleasant as Faye is as often as she is. Faye is in most senses still a teenager herself. Matter of fact she is mostly lashing out at herself rather than others. Other people are just collateral damage.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jul 2016, 03:03
That almost looks like Bubbles is going to drink it.

That's what I really thought at first. Just as Faye comes to terms with the fact that it won't help with her problems, Bubbles is wondering what it would do for her own...

And then her memory database reminds her that alcohol ingestion causes short circuiting in her simulated digestive tract.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 07 Jul 2016, 04:15
Well half a cookie for me? (Because I think Jeph wont waste another comic to show Bubbles to pour it out, so it's impliet she'll stash it. Maybe even for sniffing purposes.)

It's better than if the bottle was in the same apartment as her, yet the gun has still been hanged on the Chekhov's mantle, just as I liked.

...whereas I'd rather see more stuff like Marten dealing with the issues of dating Claire
Anything Claire must be served with an extra small spoon, or Jeph would need to lear to draw with his feet.

Jeph has been relatively masterful in dancing around this subject, with only little glimpses at the time. Someone would say he has painted a little too rosy picture and avoided touching the hard subjects of living with a Kathoey, but some other, less experienced artists, would have easily erred into over-anylyzing and over-explaining it, like I've seen one or two "trans" themed comics doing. Over all, he'll get a school grade of 8 from me. (By the European system of 0-10; 4 and below is improbatur.)

Just as Faye comes to terms with the fact that it won't help with her problems, Bubbles is wondering what it would do for her own...
There is only one way how robots can do drugs and it would be putting an AA battery across her loading port. That would stimulate har circuitry like using dipping tobacco would stimulate humans.

(Kudos for the people who know the reference, because that is OBSCURE.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 07 Jul 2016, 04:45
I get it that she is damaged and all that, but she needs therapy. Its no excuse for her to lash out really. But the fact that she is beginning to confront stuff means she is making progress.





I have a theory...faye is not her dad's daughter.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 07 Jul 2016, 04:55
There is only one way how robots can do drugs and it would be putting an AA battery across her loading port. That would stimulate har circuitry like using dipping tobacco would stimulate humans.

(Kudos for the people who know the reference, because that is OBSCURE.)
Not that obscure if the writers of Futurama could use it to make an entire episode....
https://youtu.be/U3RjP6_TV0E
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Jul 2016, 05:00
To me, in the last panel Bubbles looks like she's thinking "Now what the hell am I supposed to do with this?"

I have a theory...faye is not her dad's daughter.

I've got a theory.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 07 Jul 2016, 05:10
Hey, it will be a plot twist. Whatever happened to the hi-jinks this series used to have? You know her father being a pilot in costa rica named Alphonso. Now that would be a twist!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: freeman on 07 Jul 2016, 05:13
There is only one way how robots can do drugs and it would be putting an AA battery across her loading port. That would stimulate har circuitry like using dipping tobacco would stimulate humans.

(Kudos for the people who know the reference, because that is OBSCURE.)
Not that obscure if the writers of Futurama could use it to make an entire episode....
https://youtu.be/U3RjP6_TV0E

Wasn't Futurama, might be inspired by Futurama. It's a really old web comic about a Fry-esque guy and Bender-like robot who are marooned in a small intersolar planetoid with no seasons and thin atmosphere in a cargo space ship full of second hand junk.

As said, AA battery - dipping tobacco.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Radium_Coyote on 07 Jul 2016, 05:33
Faye keeping secrets may not be the best thing for her, but she's got a good corner man in the form of Bubbles.  Bubbles is not judgemental, not the kind to interfere in business that isn't hers.

You can't buy friends like that, they gotta be earned.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 07 Jul 2016, 05:48
I don't see Faye as keeping a secret here; she's just exhausted, and not up to having that conversation right now. I'll lay odds she'll tell Marten about it in the morning.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jul 2016, 07:59
I get it that she is damaged and all that, but she needs therapy.

For certain you're right. If she's not still seeing Dr. Buenvenida then she should start again immediately.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: themacnut on 07 Jul 2016, 08:39

For me its her behaviour towards Marten has always seemed to me to one of a bully and an abuser and while I get that Marten has brought it on himself there were also times when she'd start to bully Claire and all because Faye Had A Traumatic Experience, whereas I'd rather see more stuff like Marten dealing with the issues of dating Claire

This post suggests to me that you've not spent a lot of time around people who are damaged, or if you have that they are people who have dealt with it extremely well. If my father had killed himself in front of me when I was a child I would doing all the drugs to cope with that information. That would cause tremendous psychological damage. People who lash out at others aren't necessarily just assholes. Few actually are at all. They've been through things that have caused them to push others away when they want to accept them. I work with at risk teenagers and I can tell you, I wish even half of them were as pleasant as Faye is as often as she is. Faye is in most senses still a teenager herself. Matter of fact she is mostly lashing out at herself rather than others. Other people are just collateral damage.

I get that going through traumatic experiences can screw people all the way up, but being damaged is no excuse for lashing out at people, especially with little or no provocation. Many people have no tolerance for that kind of behavior (remember, even Jeph himself has said he wouldn't like a real-life Faye). They find out the person acting like an asshole towards them is damaged, they are likely to just consider them a damaged asshole.

Faye and others like her need extensive and ongoing therapy if they have any hopes of living a normal life.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 07 Jul 2016, 09:21
To me, in the last panel Bubbles looks like she's thinking "Now what the hell am I supposed to do with this?"

Hmmm.  It's got enough tensile strength not to break when I throw it, but the aerodynamics are iffy.  Wonder if I could hit the quarry from here?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Morituri on 07 Jul 2016, 10:03
I get that going through traumatic experiences can screw people all the way up, but being damaged is no excuse for lashing out at people, especially with little or no provocation. Many people have no tolerance for that kind of behavior (remember, even Jeph himself has said he wouldn't like a real-life Faye). They find out the person acting like an asshole towards them is damaged, they are likely to just consider them a damaged asshole.

True...  There's a huge difference between an excuse (bears less responsibility for being that way because X) and an explanation (is that way because X).  It's the sort of distinction that is lost though, to people who think that something not being fair is a reason why it shouldn't happen. 

When we are unfair, that's bad on us and we're responsible for it.  When the universe is unfair, that's nobody's fault but it's unfair anyway. 

Somebody goes through traumatic experiences? Totally unfair to them.  They get traumatic experiences, and then often as not they have to live with being an asshole for the rest of their lives too. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 07 Jul 2016, 10:06
Re: Dora

I'm waiting for the strip where her shrink suggests she get tested for ADHD or something like that. The issues w emotional regulation and her struggles with school and their impact on her self esteem would make a lot more sense then.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jul 2016, 11:33
Faye and others like her need extensive and ongoing therapy if they have any hopes of living a normal life.

To have any hopes of living a normal life they should also move to a different webcomic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Jul 2016, 11:51
I get that going through traumatic experiences can screw people all the way up, but being damaged is no excuse for lashing out at people, especially with little or no provocation

Sometimes that's how depression works. It's not always straightforward or understandable and tolerance levels will vary. It's not about having an excuse, it's about having a reason for some understanding.

Quote
Many people have no tolerance for that kind of behavior (remember, even Jeph himself has said he wouldn't like a real-life Faye).
Quote

Maybe if people were treated better originally, there would be less mental health problems, less damaged people, and less of this behaviour. And maybe if there was less of this behaviour there'd be less tragic cases in the world. I'm not saying people have no right to get pissed off at it. I'm just saying that I put up with more of it than others because I've seen how shit like this works and sometimes somebody like Faye just needs one person to not turn away from her. Right now that's Bubbles.

Quote
They find out the person acting like an asshole towards them is damaged, they are likely to just consider them a damaged asshole.

Cool. They can do that. I'll just consider then a damaged person.

Quote
Faye and others like her need extensive and ongoing therapy if they have any hopes of living a normal life.

I never said they didn't. I am well in favour of therapy. That said, mental health is still in its dark ages and provision is at an appallingly low level in my neck of the woods, so your average Joe being more understanding would do wonders on a very small scale. Some people's suicide notes say that if only one person had acknowledged them with a smile that day, it would be enough to keep them from the brink.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Gyrre on 07 Jul 2016, 13:57
Faye and others like her need extensive and ongoing therapy if they have any hopes of living a normal life.

To have any hopes of living a normal life they should also move to a different webcomic.

"It is quite abnormal to be normal. "
- Michael Stevens, from Vsauce 'Some Surprising Things' (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oc9tKkH7WE)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Jul 2016, 14:02
(mod edit: patched up quote tags, no other changes)
Quote from: Thrillho
This post suggests to me that you've not spent a lot of time around people who are damaged, or if you have that they are people who have dealt with it extremely well. If my father had killed himself in front of me when I was a child I would doing all the drugs to cope with that information. That would cause tremendous psychological damage. People who lash out at others aren't necessarily just assholes. Few actually are at all. They've been through things that have caused them to push others away when they want to accept them. I work with at risk teenagers and I can tell you, I wish even half of them were as pleasant as Faye is as often as she is. Faye is in most senses still a teenager herself. Matter of fact she is mostly lashing out at herself rather than others. Other people are just collateral damage.

That's not the point I'm trying to make though, I get the Fayes going through hard times, I get that's it difficult, I get all that.

I just simply don't want to see as much of her on this comic because (IMHO) shes a bullying, nasty, manipulative, emotional vampire. I understand that her behaviour derives from her experiences but that doesn't mean I have to like her and have to want to see more of her in this strip.

The more shes on this strip the less time there is for Martens growth and his experiences with Claire or Hannelores continuing experiences of coming out of her shell or even Clin-tons escapades
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2016, 15:01
When people keep saying "I understand ... BUT ...," I find it very difficult to take the claim of understanding very seriously.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Jul 2016, 15:21
When people keep saying "I understand ... BUT ...," I find it very difficult to take the claim of understanding very seriously.

As I find it difficult to take seriously people who seem to want to ignore the main point of what someone is saying (I don't like Fayes character and I'd prefer she wasn't around as much so more focus could go on the characters I do like) to instead focus on the minor points because it suits their own narrative

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2016, 15:25
What is there to say about your main point? You don't like one of the characters. That's your prerogative. You don't have to like her. Nothing I say will change your mind, and I'm not particularly interested in doing so.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Jul 2016, 15:41
What is there to say about your main point? You don't like one of the characters. That's your prerogative. You don't have to like her. Nothing I say will change your mind, and I'm not particularly interested in doing so.

Because posters on here seem to be ignoring that and instead focusing on why Faye is the way she is as if that renders my opinion of her invalid.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2016, 15:51
Your opinion is valid.

They disagree with it, and are explaining why. It's part of the deal of hanging around here, I'm afraid.

Like others, I would probably dislike Faye in person. But I find her story interesting to read. There are plenty of stories about people I outright detest, but that doesn't make them bad stories.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you dislike her story; but you're criticising her, not her story as such. Maybe that's why some people are misunderstanding what you're saying.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Akima on 07 Jul 2016, 15:52
Jeph's remark about moths made me wonder. Bubbles doesn't seem to be being illuminated from behind, so does she even have the lights on in the room? Can she see in the dark? It would make sense, considering the purpose for which she was originally designed.

Because posters on here seem to be ignoring that and instead focusing on why Faye is the way she is as if that renders my opinion of her invalid.
Not invalid so much as, perhaps, uncharitable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Jul 2016, 16:05
Your opinion is valid.

They disagree with it, and are explaining why. It's part of the deal of hanging around here, I'm afraid.

Like others, I would probably dislike Faye in person. But I find her story interesting to read. There are plenty of stories about people I outright detest, but that doesn't make them bad stories.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you dislike her story; but you're criticising her, not her story as such. Maybe that's why some people are misunderstanding what you're saying.

That's a fair call, I guess I was trying to explain why I dislike Faye whereas, in hindsight, I probably should have just said I don't like the storyline and left it at that
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Jul 2016, 16:08
(mod edit: I fixed the quote tags, or at least I think I did)
Quote from: Akima
Because posters on here seem to be ignoring that and instead focusing on why Faye is the way she is as if that renders my opinion of her invalid.
Not invalid so much as, perhaps, uncharitable.

Yes I can say how it could be seen as uncharitable but after her treatment of Marten, in particular, has left me feeling neutral towards. I know Marten should have stood up to Faye numerous times in the past and so has brought a lot of it on himself it still doesn't excuse Fayes bullying behaviour towards him
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 07 Jul 2016, 16:46
Yeah!  What he said!

On a different note in the same chord, in today's comic, we see Faye's treatment of Marten has changed, but, in my opinion, not improved.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 07 Jul 2016, 16:59
I'd say any time her first reaction isn't to punch the poor fella, it's an improvement. Of course, it might be that she just used up all her punching energy at Bubble's place, but score one for not putting bruises on her roommate lately. :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: TRVA123 on 07 Jul 2016, 18:17
Honestly, people on the forum have been fighting about who they don't like (primarily Faye, Dora, and Sven) for years. The conversation is a bit stale to the older forumites, which is probably why most of us don't engage you in that discussion. There are only so many times you can retread that same path.

Analyzing the characters, artwork, narrative, or pacing of the story, or the worldbuilding implications of something new that Jeph has just introduced, is much more interesting.

However, if you want a good dose of Faye debate and drama, you might enjoy finding the thread where Faye was fired from CoD, it had a lot of back and forth about Faye.

I'm not trying to shut down your conversation, but I am trying to give you (my) perspective on why your comments aren't sparking a stimulating discussion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jul 2016, 19:37
And if you want to see the anger directed at Dora, just go and try to find the threads from around the time of The Breakup.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Jul 2016, 20:28
Thanks to Bubbles, Faye has reclaimed her inner strength.

'Ethanol, in aqueous solution, with minor impurities', muses Bubbles.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jul 2016, 21:44
And if you want to see the anger directed at Dora, just go and try to find the threads from around the time of The Breakup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 07 Jul 2016, 22:21
And if you want to see the anger directed at Dora, just go and try to find the threads from around the time of The Breakup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg

I saw that movie in the theaters and I thought it sucked then, too.

But yeah, he's right.  Don't touch that...it's evil.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2016, 22:48
Nope. Hate on Faye all you want. But hate on Time Bandits? I'm afraid we can never be friends, that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 07 Jul 2016, 22:50
And if you want to see the anger directed at Dora, just go and try to find the threads from around the time of The Breakup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg

I saw that movie in the theaters and I thought it sucked then, too.

But yeah, he's right.  Don't touch that...it's evil.

Time Bandits is still a weird film after all these years, but I expect nothing less from Terry Gilliam. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 08 Jul 2016, 00:15
Strip is up!

Seems that Brun is sticking with her old routine and if Renee is this overbearing then I can definitely see her wanting to find a new roommate soon enough. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Jul 2016, 00:24
Yeah, Renee is being a bit overbearing but some things are better done sooner rather than later. I think that Brun will ultimately thank her for her help and not letting her stay in an inactive comfort zone.

Brun working late shifts for a long time confirmed. "Renee, what's that bright light in the sky? It's too bright to be the moon!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 08 Jul 2016, 00:35
Yeah, Renee is being a bit overbearing but some things are better done sooner rather than later. I think that Brun will ultimately thank her for her help and not letting her stay in an inactive comfort zone.

Brun working late shifts for a long time confirmed. "Renee, what's that bright light in the sky? It's too bright to be the moon!"

I'm not saying Renee isn't being helpful, but Brun's routine is important.  Clinton understood that quickly enough, but Renee whose a friend who knows her longer seems to want her to adopt hers.  It would be one thing if Brun procrastinated for over a week, but seeing as how she could still get shelter at the motel which I imagine would be a very limited basis I would estimate that this is one day after moving in, two tops. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Chronometry on 08 Jul 2016, 00:41
I'm going to be in the looking for my first job ever soon, so I'm interested to see how Brun handles this.

Then again, I do live in England so the jobseeking process might be different over here compared to across the pond.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 08 Jul 2016, 00:52
I know some Renees (not the name, the personality), and I suspect that in her mind, Renee is being very supportive and trying to help her friend get back on her feet as soon as possible.

I know some Bruns (again not the name), and I suspect that in her mind, Renee is going out of her way to show that Brun needs to get out of her home.

See, my mom is a Renee type, and my husband is a Brun type, and after my husband and I got out of the Air Force, my parents offered to let us stay with them until we could find jobs and a place to live. My mom all but pushed us out the door to motivate us into getting our shit together. My husband felt entirely unwelcome, even though I know for a fact that my folks love him to bits. Fortunately, I live in the middle of the extremes so I could act as an interpreter.

Perhaps Clinton could serve in that capacity, some day. Not that I'm shipping Brun/Clinton or saying that Renee is his mom, but when a Brun and a Renee interact, sometimes they do need an interpreter.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been interpreted.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 08 Jul 2016, 00:54
Renee is new worst character. Anyone who interrupts sleep is the Devil, it's as simple as that.
Srsly though, depending on how long it's been since the fire and Brun's subsequent sleeping at Renee's house, this could range anywhere from 'Seriously, Renee, you're kind of being a dick right now' if it's only been a couple days, to 'The exact right push she needed' if it's been a couple weeks. Without a clear timescale, it's hard to comment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: gopher on 08 Jul 2016, 01:35
Going to trust Renee is dealing with this right until proven otherwise. I know I can need pushing in the right direction, especially during my dark phases.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: USS Martenclaire on 08 Jul 2016, 01:38
....It might just be me but in that second panel, Brun looks like a half-asleep version of Chelle from Portal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: mikmaxs on 08 Jul 2016, 02:28
....It might just be me but in that second panel, Brun looks like a half-asleep version of Chelle from Portal.
It's the color scheme. Orange blanket, white top. Matches the Portal 2 Chell's costume.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 02:30
This is a complex situation. Are the events happening concurrently? Like the faye situation happened at the same time as brun reaching the apartment at 4? If so reneee is a bit assholish. If this is a fresh night of sleep then brun is lazy. I don't have alot of sympathy for her but lets see where it goes.

And jeez renee is bossy. Being helpful is one thing, but turn it DOWN to 11. Its currently at 46.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 08 Jul 2016, 03:12
This is a complex situation. Are the events happening concurrently? Like the faye situation happened at the same time as brun reaching the apartment at 4? If so reneee is a bit assholish. If this is a fresh night of sleep then brun is lazy. I don't have alot of sympathy for her but lets see where it goes.

And jeez renee is bossy. Being helpful is one thing, but turn it DOWN to 11. Its currently at 46.

Brun's not necessarily lazy.  If she's used to working a late shift and sleeping 6 am to 2 pm, that's not lazy, that's just an alternative sleep schedule for those who work while normal people are sleeping.  Given that Brun seems to *need* routine in her life, Renee is a bit assholish no matter what.  If it's been a while, then pushing Brun to start job/apartment hunting is fine, but disrupting her routine to do it?  Not so much.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 08 Jul 2016, 03:23
This is a complex situation. Are the events happening concurrently? Like the faye situation happened at the same time as brun reaching the apartment at 4? If so reneee is a bit assholish. If this is a fresh night of sleep then brun is lazy. I don't have alot of sympathy for her but lets see where it goes.

And jeez renee is bossy. Being helpful is one thing, but turn it DOWN to 11. Its currently at 46.

Brun's not necessarily lazy.  If she's used to working a late shift and sleeping 6 am to 2 pm, that's not lazy, that's just an alternative sleep schedule for those who work while normal people are sleeping.  Given that Brun seems to *need* routine in her life, Renee is a bit assholish no matter what.  If it's been a while, then pushing Brun to start job/apartment hunting is fine, but disrupting her routine to do it?  Not so much.

Very much true. It's not like a person can switch their sleeping patterns around in a day or two, anyway. And judging by Brun's reaction, Renee surprised her by this with no forewarning.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oeoek on 08 Jul 2016, 03:40
Fantastic first panel today (2620); being ripped from slumber...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Tova on 08 Jul 2016, 03:47
Wait. 2620?

That makes me think. With Jeph in Europe, I wonder if the idea for this comic came from real life. Jet lag can be a real buggerance.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 08 Jul 2016, 04:03
Friendship Order of Operations

Gratitude comes after coffee.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 04:10
Crap, I forgot that. Yeah, if its a late shift, your sleep patterns tend to reflect it. Renee does gym? Looking like she needs to commit to it a bit more.

The art in this one a bit better than the last strip.

Off comment: You know, with Dora actively trying to improve her life, she can make up with Sven. None of her problems had to do anything with Sven. I really hated that Dora and Faye were demonizing his life. He is actually the most grounded of most of the cast. I am hoping that Martin and Dora get back together and have a better relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: bhtooefr on 08 Jul 2016, 04:21
Off comment: You know, with Dora actively trying to improve her life, she can make up with Sven. None of her problems had to do anything with Sven.
Which she did: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3025

I am hoping that Martin and Dora get back together and have a better relationship.
Doesn't that run afoul of the shipping rule? And, Dora seems to be happy with Tai (and their relationship seems to be healthier - Tai pushes Dora to be a better person) and vice versa, Marten seems to be happy with Claire (and their relationship seems to be healthier - Marten's forced to take the lead and therefore work through his passivity). So, wanting Marten and Dora to get back together means wanting those relationships to end (considering nobody involved is poly, as far as we know - not even Tai, as her promiscuity was attempting to fit in with her poly crushes, but she was completely unsatisfied with that).

And, I mean, Marten and Dora's relationship was really unhealthy - Dora was basically an emotional abuser to him when they were together, and Marten was effectively an enabler for all of Dora's bad habits through his passivity. (That doesn't mean that Dora's a terrible person, it just means that they're terrible together.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 04:41
I agree it does run afoul or even a fowl of the shipping rule. They did patch things up. Sven returning to a life which made him happy (the old one) will be a good change.

Tai and Claire are too immature for their respective partners. Got nothing against them, but their role of long term partners seem a bit "meh". Tai is a bit moody at times and Claire, well is prone to alot of immaturity. As a long term option, not that great a partner.

Now matin and Dora can enter a relationship as helthier partners. Dora will be a lot more stable and martin can express how they feel. The is always ClaireTai when  Clearatin fails.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: oddtail on 08 Jul 2016, 05:05
I agree it does run afoul or even a fowl of the shipping rule. They did patch things up. Sven returning to a life which made him happy (the old one) will be a good change.

Tai and Claire are too immature for their respective partners. Got nothing against them, but their role of long term partners seem a bit "meh". Tai is a bit moody at times and Claire, well is prone to alot of immaturity. As a long term option, not that great a partner.

Now matin and Dora can enter a relationship as helthier partners. Dora will be a lot more stable and martin can express how they feel. The is always ClaireTai when  Clearatin fails.

Is there any even semi-reasonable in-story reason why Marten and Dora would get back together? They seem happy with their current partners, they have expressed no regrets regarding their breakup, they don't seem to be interested in each other anymore, and each of them seems to have moved past the relationship emotionally. The debate of whether they would fit together is immaterial, not anymore than any other hypothetical pairing of characters. No story element hints at them being anything but satisfied with having broken up, nor are there any indications that the story intends to go there for whatever reason.

Which makes the speculation pure shipping, doesn't it...?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrudd on 08 Jul 2016, 05:39
I saw that movie in the theaters and I thought it sucked then, too.
But yeah, he's right.  Don't touch that...it's evil.
Time Bandits is still a weird film after all these years, but I expect nothing less from Terry Gilliam.
How can anyone not love that film - it has LEGO.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: 94ssd on 08 Jul 2016, 06:28
I just realized, is Brun's friend Renee the same one that works at the Secret Bakery (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1845)

They are indeed both short, black, curvy, and have gauges. But did she get contacts? And if it is the same person her personality around Brun is a lot different, which I suppose isn't that unlikely.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: QuestionableIntentions on 08 Jul 2016, 06:43
And if Clinton had done any of these: "Oh my god he is such a creepy weirdo!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DSL on 08 Jul 2016, 07:31
"Now I'm going to complain about how nobody appreciates the things I do for them that they didn't ask me to do or even asked me to not do!" Yep, I've got a few of those.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 08 Jul 2016, 07:50
And if Clinton had done any of these: "Oh my god he is such a creepy weirdo!"
The difference being that Brun and Renee have a preexisting trusted friendship.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: MrNumbers on 08 Jul 2016, 07:55
Re: Claire/Marten and Tai/Dora breakups--  :claireface: 's biggest problem is she currently suffers and benefits from the role of "Creator's Pet". Or has until recently. The solution, then, is not for Dora and Marten to get back together, because they are -- what we in the shipping business call -- a "burned bridge". They've only just put out the fires on that one, there's no need to go trying to run a trainline back over it just because you like how it used to look.

Tai also consistently seems to be more mature and level headed than Dora in the specific ways Dora needs. She's a very good counter to her specific brand of bullshit. Which I'd love to see more of because they've been very heavily offscreened for quite a while. But it's so hard for an author to just focus on the lives of characters that are going well because "I am relatively happy and content with my life and the choices I am making to improve it" doesn't have much in the way of dramatic tension...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: KOK on 08 Jul 2016, 08:00
Irwin Troll is writing his memoires:
"I was born long ago and have lived quietly ever since."
Gaylord Buzzard: "No, no, no! You need tension! Drama! Suffering!"
"PS. In 1966 I bit my tongue."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 08 Jul 2016, 08:25
Sometimes the best friends push you to get your shit together.  The two pm wake up isn't good because a lot of this stuff needs to happen during business hours.

ETA: also to me this solidifies that Renee doesn't want Brun dependent on her; these are all necessary steps to Brun becoming INDEPENDENT once again.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Jul 2016, 08:29
Renee does gym? Looking like she needs to commit to it a bit more.

Moderator Comment And you need to not say anything like this on here again.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 10:27
okie okie..it was a little mean
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Jul 2016, 10:31
I agree it does run afoul or even a fowl of the shipping rule.

Global Moderator Comment Also, rules are rules. Saying you're aware you're breaking them is not a perverse get-out-of-jail-free card. Keep to the rules or be prepared for the consequences.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 08 Jul 2016, 10:39
The two ongoing storylines make an interesting contrast in approaches to being a helpful friend. Bubbles played it sensitively, just present enough to give support, but letting Faye do the heavy lifting in her internal demon battle. Renee has no idea what "sensitive" is, so she's pushing way past the limit, trying to censor Brun's friendships, and bulldozing Brun into forging ahead with future plans before she has a chance to process all the sudden changes she's experienced.

It's possible that this is what Brun needs; she may have the instinct to hold back and stay in her comfort zone even when she needs to think about next steps. But I kind of doubt it. Renee as overbearing comic relief could end up a foil to Clinton (who used to be Mr. Overbearing But Means Well) as he grows a bit and experiences the downside of someone else being overbearing.

While you were typing like a slowpoke, two others added their thoughts to the thread. So will you be overbearing and just put down what you've already written, or will you be a wuss and keep responding to faster typists till you're defeated by a special case of Zeno's Paradox?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: JimC on 08 Jul 2016, 12:00
or will you be a wuss and keep responding to faster typists
Thread drift is your friend here. Before long the faster typists will be wibbling about something entirely different and you may gain plaudits for dragging the thread back on topic...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 12:38
I think brun will work at the robot fighting arena. A bar at a fighting pit? Now things will pick up!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Thrudd on 08 Jul 2016, 12:46
I doubt there is much if any audience at the arena itself and Robots don't drink per se.
Makes for questionable security as well.

My guess is that it is web televised and to circumvent the gambling laws the League works through subscriptions for the live streams and some version of Patron for the Fighters. Secondary sources would be all sorts of memorabilia and ephemera that are normally associated with such activities. Mind you gambling might happen through third parties in another jurisdiction, though the IRS will still want its cut despite any application of logic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: DashaBlade on 08 Jul 2016, 13:16
And if Clinton had done any of these: "Oh my god he is such a creepy weirdo!"
The difference being that Brun and Renee have a preexisting trusted friendship.

This just made a lightbulb click on for me. The reason Renee is suspicious of Clinton without ever meeting him is that by helping Brun, he's moving in on her territory.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 08 Jul 2016, 14:08
And if Clinton had done any of these: "Oh my god he is such a creepy weirdo!"
The difference being that Brun and Renee have a preexisting trusted friendship.

This just made a lightbulb click on for me. The reason Renee is suspicious of Clinton without ever meeting him is that by helping Brun, he's moving in on her territory.  :-P

That makes a ton of sense. Renee is like that kid on the playground who got upset when her best friend wanted to play with other kids (spoiler alert: I was that kid too, so I get it).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Jul 2016, 14:13
I give Renee 9/10 for trying, but minus several thousand for being overbearing

And Brun definitely has the right alarm clock noise ;D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: War Sparrow on 08 Jul 2016, 15:07
"My friend needs a routine for her wellbeing! I will help her find one as soon as possible, by waking her up before she wants to be awake and slamming her with things immediately afterward! I am helping!"

Renee needs to calm her farm. *

*There is a Marigold pun here. I am not clever enough to construct it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 08 Jul 2016, 16:22
And if Clinton had done any of these: "Oh my god he is such a creepy weirdo!"
The difference being that Brun and Renee have a preexisting trusted friendship.

True and as a trusted friend Renee should be more than familiar with Brun's need for routine.  It would be like Margiold cleaning up Hannelore's apartment.  Sure she did something helpful, but with her OCD being what it is she has to do the cleaning her way.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: swapna on 08 Jul 2016, 17:19
Sometimes the best friends push you to get your shit together.  The two pm wake up isn't good because a lot of this stuff needs to happen during business hours.

ETA: also to me this solidifies that Renee doesn't want Brun dependent on her; these are all necessary steps to Brun becoming INDEPENDENT once again.
I think you're right on the money here - if Brun's waking up at two, she won't have enough time to file the paperwork before business hours end. In Bruns line of work, calling for jobs later in the day might not be that big of a problem, but I don't know if Renee's thought of that. All in all, I think she knows Bruns routine, and she knows how much strain it puts on her to live with another person (when she described her routine, she joked that Brun might follow it, but she obviously knows that won't happen).

Also, yes, she wants Brun independent, which contradicts the earlier assumption that she tries to keep her away from any potential friends like Clinton just to have her for herself. I also think Renee knows Brun very well, and she knows that adjusting to a new routine is hard for her; we've seen how difficulties she had (forgetting to shower, or forgetting to put Clintons number somewhere dry..). To help with this, Renee started making a routine for Brun, and while Brun might complain about it's a structure she can cling to until she re-establishes her own. So, it's more like Marten distracting Hanners with the Worry Hat; of course it's not the perfect solution, but it'll work until Hanners figures it out herself.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Akima on 08 Jul 2016, 17:39
I'm one of those people who "wants to help", and be organised, and do things for other people, so I sympathise with Renée's impulse, but I've learned that behaving like that can feel very overbearing and unempathic and "not listening" to the person on the receiving end. Especially when you've just jerked them awake out of their normal sleep-cycle. And laying a guilt-trip on people for their lack of gratitude when you do something for them is not really cool ever.

So yes, I'm in the "Don't walk away Renée, but dial it down a few notches, OK?" camp.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jheartney on 08 Jul 2016, 17:51
Actually I suspect Renee likes being bossy. She may come up with a number of excuses that she's doing it for Brun's own good, but in the end bossy people like being bossy. Brun's an adult, and capable of being responsible for her own life.

I could be wrong, but this looks to me as if this is the next day after Brun moved out of the hotel. If so she's working on a 36 hour sleep deficit, and could well have used those additional two hours of sleep. We'll see how long this crashing-at-Renee's thing lasts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Zastie on 08 Jul 2016, 17:58
I think brun will work at the robot fighting arena. A bar at a fighting pit? Now things will pick up!
Hmm, I'm not too sure how well that would mix (pun) with them trying to remain under the radar. Also I don't really know how many of the AI would drink.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 18:08
If i had to guesstimate, the qc season finale will be coffee of doom versus the other coffee shop (if she is in fact the owner). Dora will enlist the help of faye and her welding skills to build a catapult. Martin will provide the metal track. And pintsize and wilson will livestream.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Undrneath on 08 Jul 2016, 18:27
I think brun will work at the robot fighting arena. A bar at a fighting pit? Now things will pick up!
Hmm, I'm not too sure how well that would mix (pun) with them trying to remain under the radar. Also I don't really know how many of the AI would drink.

Not to mention I don't think Jeph will subject Faye to such temptation right in her backyard.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 08 Jul 2016, 18:33
If i had to guesstimate, the qc season finale will be coffee of doom versus the other coffee shop (if she is in fact the owner). Dora will enlist the help of faye and her welding skills to build a catapult. Martin will provide the metal track. And pintsize and wilson will livestream.

She's not the owner; Jim is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Storel on 08 Jul 2016, 18:42
So yes, I'm in the "Don't walk away Renée, but dial it down a few notches, OK?" camp.

+5 Oldies points for the "Walk Away, Renee (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_QVUfZv92U)" reference!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Jul 2016, 20:17
If i had to guesstimate, the qc season finale will be coffee of doom versus the other coffee shop (if she is in fact the owner). Dora will enlist the help of Faye and her welding skills to build a catapult. Marten will provide the metal track. And Pintsize and Winslow will livestream.

Fixed.

Kids, public service announcement from a non-mod: after you read the rules of the board, make sure you read the Wiki to get the characters' names right, 'kay?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 08 Jul 2016, 20:50
I was wondering when the castaway crossover was happening...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 08 Jul 2016, 20:58
Forgot jim is the owner.  Its been a while.

Had to turn off aurocorrect. It kept insisting its martin and not marten.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jul 2016, 21:53
An epic coffee shop battle with catapults ... that's a kind of wackiness that used to be a regular part of QC but that we haven't seen for a while. It would be a delight to see Jeph try something like that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 08 Jul 2016, 22:25
... Renee is like that kid on the playground who got upset when her best friend wanted to play with other kids ...

Like Sal and Marcie in that other webcomic. (the one about butts)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: sitnspin on 09 Jul 2016, 06:51
I don't see her as being jealous or territorial, just overprotective. That's a trait I can identify with. I tend to be fiercely protective of my friends too, especially the more vulnerable ones. The organizing things for her part less so, I barely have my own shit together let alone someone else's.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Jul 2016, 07:42
Like Sal and Marcie in that other webcomic. (the one about butts)
All webcomics are about butts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 09 Jul 2016, 07:46
Being careful is a good trait, but being there to help them when they fall is almost as important as before the fall. If they don't make mistakes they never learn.

Except relationships, its terrible to meddle or interfere at any stage. Theat is between the 2 partners to solve, no one else.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Larm Hargraven on 09 Jul 2016, 09:05
Like everyone else is saying, Renee may just want to make sure Brun is being independent as soon as possible. Which, hey, is great, but the process of doing so is all wrong. Everyone in defense is stating that Brun waking at 2pm is a bit late and Renee simply wants to get her moving, but the glaring problem is that Renee had to have snuck in and altered Brun's alarm clock without her knowing. This is a high-noon tale of Manipulation 101, conscious of the fact or not.

A better way Renee could have gone about this is asking the night before for Brun to wake up so they can prepare for the day, but that didn't go. On that, in less than 30 seconds she's dropping three MAJOR tasks on Brun without warning. Finding a job is already one doozy to accomplish, but before that she has to apply for the unemployment paperwork AND a new apartment at the same time. Renee, even if unaware of Brun's 'routine,' isn't going to help a whole lot. Now this is a fictional world, Jeph could have Brun be appreciative of it all, which can happen in real life, too. But I'm inclined to believe that in the real world, with someone like Brun, they'd be pretty unhappy to have all of this happening without warning. We saw how she reacted to the unexpected burning of her work and home, so thrusting a new sleep schedule and those three tasks might shut her down, too.

Again, Renee may be acting out of kindness in her heart, but her way of going about it is the problem. I've had people help me before through this manner and it's a really crummy feeling because you feel tricked by this person, but can't be mad because 'they're trying to help.' At the same time, you then also feel down because you think people have to lie to get you moving, which is the opposite of the fact.

And even with all that pushed aside and bundled under the excuse of 'Renee and Brun are friends, this is normal.' I want to point out that, again, Bruns whole life burned to the ground pretty recently still. The recovery process is a step-by-step thing and starting one day, out of nowhere, without a heads up, to get to starting on rebuilding your WHOLE life in one morning is ridiculously daunting and requires a little bit of narcissism or selfishness to not realize it's daunting to someone.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jul 2016, 09:58
I think Renee is in the wrong and for the same reasons you mentioned, but there are people who process loss by plunging themselves totally into high-energy practical repair work.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Jul 2016, 10:23
Yeah, that's how my dad works. The thinking seems to be "If I fix everything fast enough I won't need to emotionally process the loss." It doesn't actually work, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: 94ssd on 09 Jul 2016, 10:58
Off comment: You know, with Dora actively trying to improve her life, she can make up with Sven. None of her problems had to do anything with Sven. I really hated that Dora and Faye were demonizing his life. He is actually the most grounded of most of the cast. I am hoping that Martin and Dora get back together and have a better relationship.

I agree with this. What has Sven ever actually done wrong? Kind of reminds me of Joe from Dumbing of Age - readers demonize him for having casual sex with women whereas no one in this readership would have the same reaction toward a female character that casually sleeps with men (Raven, anyone?).

He's never done anything non-consensual, he doesn't try to lie or manipulate women into thinking that he's offering a relationship. He otherwise seems like a perfectly alright person who never did anything to deserve being cut off by his own family member, and Dora has definitely been in the wrong (in my opinion) this entire time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Penquin47 on 09 Jul 2016, 11:21
Off comment: You know, with Dora actively trying to improve her life, she can make up with Sven. None of her problems had to do anything with Sven. I really hated that Dora and Faye were demonizing his life. He is actually the most grounded of most of the cast. I am hoping that Martin and Dora get back together and have a better relationship.

I agree with this. What has Sven ever actually done wrong? Kind of reminds me of Joe from Dumbing of Age - readers demonize him for having casual sex with women whereas no one in this readership would have the same reaction toward a female character that casually sleeps with men (Raven, anyone?).

He's never done anything non-consensual, he doesn't try to lie or manipulate women into thinking that he's offering a relationship. He otherwise seems like a perfectly alright person who never did anything to deserve being cut off by his own family member, and Dora has definitely been in the wrong (in my opinion) this entire time.

Sleeping with Gina Riversmith despite knowing that Faye expected monogamy from him and then planning not to tell her about it.  (This one can be argued about whether Faye had any right to expect monogamy, but that's a whole different debate.  She told him she was leaving if he slept with another woman, and he slept with another woman and planned to cover it up so she wouldn't leave.)
The whole "Faye I love you fall into my arms despite already having a boyfriend" incident.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Jul 2016, 11:38
There was also trying to get Marten to run interference because he didn't want to deal with an ex.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 09 Jul 2016, 11:41
Yeah, no one much cared about Sven's behaviour, though some no doubt harboured some resentment over the Genevieve/VespAvenger incident, until he messed around on Faye.

So, what did Sven ever do? Knowingly messed around with Faye, planned to cover it up, and, as Penquin said, lapsed into nice-guy™ douchebaggery with his "but I love you, therefore you should fall into my arms, despite our history and your current committed relationship" bit.
Oh and almost got Marten killed that one time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Jul 2016, 11:44
Oh and almost got Marten killed that one time.

Marten would have been rather chill about the whole dying bit, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 09 Jul 2016, 11:57
On Sven: I think it's pretty clear that Jeph's intent was to portray him as in the wrong with Faye, and while he's not a terrible person (no one in the comic besides Beatrice and maybe Corpse Witch is), he's not perfect. And "most grounded of most of the cast"?! He EXPECTED FAYE TO LEAVE HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND TO BE WITH HIM. NOTHING about that is "grounded".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jul 2016, 12:25
Genevieve got two-timed without her consent.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Oenone on 09 Jul 2016, 15:18
Can you really sneak into your own living room?

The other thing I was thinking about: Brun's routine is great, but I imagine if you're an early riser with your own shit to do, having to tip toe around your living room must be really inconvenient. If Brun wanted to sleep til 2, she should've taken Renee up on the bedroom offer.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Fen on 09 Jul 2016, 16:56
The thing is that Brun has been shown to be, well, somewhat prone to going catatonic. This kind of inaction is really easy to get into. Coping means that you will miss deadlines and do that thing where you spend way too much time waiting before moving on.

I definitely see why Renee sounds overbearing here, but I would do the same for *some* of my friends, and I wish more people had done this to me in the past when I fell into depression. Renee has known Brun for longer than we have. She could be just pushing her because she's needy, or she could be pushing her since she's obviously her closest friend and she knows that if she doesn't then Brun will not move from that couch for a month.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: brasca on 09 Jul 2016, 17:10
On Sven: I think it's pretty clear that Jeph's intent was to portray him as in the wrong with Faye, and while he's not a terrible person (no one in the comic besides Beatrice and maybe Corpse Witch is), he's not perfect. And "most grounded of most of the cast"?! He EXPECTED FAYE TO LEAVE HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND TO BE WITH HIM. NOTHING about that is "grounded".

I'm not entirely convinced Corpse Witch is terrible.  She's certainly manipulative and underhanded, but she might be looking out for Bubbles in the same misguided way Renee is looking out for Brun.  Perhaps she's an older AI who had to deal with a lot of human prejudice and it's had a lasting impression. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 09 Jul 2016, 23:18
Agreed on Corpse Witch.  Her tired, "I told you so," tone even before things happen is one I recognize all too well.

And that makes me sad.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: heyjames4 on 10 Jul 2016, 04:54
I don't think we have enough context for renee/brun interactIon to conclude anything. We're sympathetic to Brun for loss, because we saw it. And to her atypicality, because we see ours OUrselves. Renee isn't coming of in a good light so far. But I'm going to have to see more before I judge her bad.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: blue5 on 10 Jul 2016, 05:59
I think more grounded before the faye relationship. He can be a backside sometimes but i felt the asking faye to fell for him while in a relationship was out of character. You van even say faye has beenna negative impact.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jul 2016, 11:49
"Out of character" ... You've got something there. It might have been old Sven the pickup artist coming back but it's more likely that he's developed actual feelings and has no practice managing them. If so then it's out of character, because his character is changing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: JimC on 10 Jul 2016, 15:25
... if she doesn't then Brun will not move from that couch for a month.
Whatever the situation anyone who is cheerful at me like that one minute after I've been woken up two hours earlier than I was expecting is not going to get a positive response.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3256-3260 (4-8 July 2016)
Post by: chaospersonified on 10 Jul 2016, 19:11
So I just now read the text at the bottom of last Friday's comic, and isn't all fan-fic at least somewhat about the author inserting themselves, into the narrative if not as characters? I write fiction a plenty, and I often find myself writing me as the male characters, not intentionally, but still.