Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => ALICE GROVE => Topic started by: brasca on 01 Aug 2016, 04:32

Title: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Aug 2016, 04:32
New month new poll.

Thought I'd take a crack at this.  Hope I'm not overstepping. 

This next month could prove quite interesting since half the battle is finding the rocket ship.  The rest is upgrading and piloting it.  That could all happen rather quickly or there could be some time for character growth.  These archaeophiles may be eager to find relics, but they may oppose just smashing their way through so the process could take a few weeks.  They might like Gavia more than Ardent which might lift her spirits while making him jealous and we could get some additional exposition from Alice and Sedna about what happened after the blink. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Aug 2016, 04:58
I'm voting that they're arguing about how to get in the bunker when Gavia and Ardent turn around a corner and find a door. It takes them a couple of strips to get the 'adults' to stop arguing long enough so that they can communicate this to them.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Zebediah on 01 Aug 2016, 05:35
And then Ardent accidentally touches the door and upgrades it to a meter-thick blast door with full automated security protection including laser cannons.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jheartney on 01 Aug 2016, 08:06
Eventually I'm going to get tired of Gavia's attitude. She followed Ardent down of her own free will. Also, if Ardent hadn't alerted everyone to the fact that Nightwalker had taken Gavia, I suspect it would have just dropped her after taking her nanotech, and she would have been killed by the fall. Finally, Alice is right: there's no way Ardent could have known that this would happen.

Gavia should come to terms with her own role in creating the current situation, and stop blaming everything on Ardent.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Aug 2016, 08:20
A new comic is up, just in case anyone is wondering.

Ooh, yeah. Gavia is treading the path to the Dark Side her and then some! Bitter, angry and full of good reasons (at least in her own mind) about why everything is someone else's fault. In her defence, she has suffered although she is certainly overestimating the degree to which Ardent is personally responsible. Indeed, I suspect that the biggest trial for her will be having to accept who is really responsible (likely the Praeses).

Until then... well, I wouldn't be surprised if Ardent got in trouble and she turned her back on him, at least at first.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Aug 2016, 10:14
Much of her anger at Ardent expressed here is not over blaming him. But the fact that he just skates through everything without suffering very much and with very little effort on his part. Yes, it's unfair right now because he's trying to take responsibility for what happened to Gavia and fix it. But right now Gavia's not having any of it. What seemed to her was going to be a simple task of going to retrieve her brother started with her being beaten  half to death by Alice, abandoned by the Prases and trapped on Earth. Her world view has been seriously compromised by what she's learned from Alice, she's being dragged from place to place, endangered in so many ways. She's had her body and mind invaded and violated by the Nightwalker and her nanotech abilities stolen from her. Through all this, Ardent has been acting like it's a vacation. He's happy go lucky. She's bitter. And he's the only target for her anger that she has.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 01 Aug 2016, 11:36
Both of them are ridiculously arrogant, in their own ways.

The only way the magic upgrade to the ancient rocket has the slightest chance of sending the kids home, is if the Praeses planned it to in advance. Yet they're all just assuming that's what it will do.

Ardent thinks his 'magic powers' will allow him to make a rocket that just happens to be able to navigate its way back to the right orbital habitat. (not just to any of the hundreds of them.) If he's wrong, they're probably both stranded on Earth or on the wrong habitat, or dead, but if he's right (and he likely is), then they're both just acting a predetermined role set out by the Praeses. In that case, he should be wondering if that's a good thing or, as Alice suggests, the precursor to a horrific war.

Gavia thinks his 'magic powers' will likely work too, and again, she really should be thinking way beyond what that means to her relationship with Ardent and her personal convenience. But she's stuck in bitter/angry mode and can't see past the end of her nose to the obvious conclusion that she's a pawn in a scary interplanetary conflict.  None of this is hidden from her or beyond her understanding -- she is just too self-centered to care.

Now Alice -- she too may be missing 'what comes next'. She's totally aware of the Praeses and that Ardent and Gavia are there to manipulate Earth and probably even herself. Yet she risks her life and her town's welfare (leaving them alone for weeks) on a quest to do, it now seems, exactly what the Praeses expects her to. Shouldn't this be intensely worrying to her? Apparently she was originally motivated by a combination of kindness ("help the strangers home") and paranoia ("keep the sinister nanotech upgrades away"). Now that her paranoia is precisely what she's counting on to solve the quest, she fails to see the irony. If her paranoia is wrong, she's dooming the kids to wander in space until they run out of oxygen (so much for the kindness motivation). If it's right, she's just doing what the Praeses expects (and she's doing exactly what the enemy wants). She's just as much a pawn as Ardent here, and she's too smart for that.





Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Aug 2016, 12:08
Much of her anger at Ardent expressed here is not over blaming him. But the fact that he just skates through everything without suffering very much and with very little effort on his part. Yes, it's unfair right now because he's trying to take responsibility for what happened to Gavia and fix it. But right now Gavia's not having any of it. What seemed to her was going to be a simple task of going to retrieve her brother started with her being beaten  half to death by Alice, abandoned by the Prases and trapped on Earth. Her world view has been seriously compromised by what she's learned from Alice, she's being dragged from place to place, endangered in so many ways. She's had her body and mind invaded and violated by the Nightwalker and her nanotech abilities stolen from her. Through all this, Ardent has been acting like it's a vacation. He's happy go lucky. She's bitter. And he's the only target for her anger that she has.

Exactly.  I think deep down Gavia is questioning the beings she's perceived as parents and possibly gods, but it's all so unthinkable that she lashes out at the person whose actions started the current chain of events.  And while Ardent does take responsibility and is trying to make things right he really hasn't suffered for any of his actions.  Gavia seems like someone who has played by the rules her whole life and it's beginning to seem like it was all for nothing.  So on top of everything else she's suffered she now may be going through an existential crisis. 

Gavia seems like a workaholic so perhaps helping dig into the bunker will give her something to keep her mind occupied as well as make her popular among the archaeophiles.  Ardent mentioned that she doesn't have any friends back at the habitat so maybe she'll fit in better with them.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 01 Aug 2016, 12:27
The way she ended that conversation ("Then I can be rid of you") seems to insinuate that her plan is to send Ardent back to the habitat - without her.

Is it possible that she thinks/knows that she can no longer be or exist on the space habitat, without her nanotech?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 01 Aug 2016, 12:46
I think that it's more likely that she means that Ardent and his 'special abilities' will then be the Praeses' problem, not hers. She'll be able to try to get back to her life and forget that she has a brother.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jheartney on 01 Aug 2016, 12:49
The way she ended that conversation ("Then I can be rid of you") seems to insinuate that her plan is to send Ardent back to the habitat - without her.

Is it possible that she thinks/knows that she can no longer be or exist on the space habitat, without her nanotech?

More likely she just doesn't want anything further to do with him after they get back to orbit. Assuming they are able to find a way to return, they'll be doing it together. But after that, it'll be bye bye.

I don't think Gavia has any desire to stay on Earth. When asked to describe the orbital habitats, she says they are "better than here."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Aug 2016, 12:52
If they have the ability to give someone nanotech abilities in orbit, then surely they can do it again if Gavia gets back up there.  or reverse whatever the Nightwalker did. In any case, Having nanotech seems optional, not a requirement. Ardent didn't have any before he was mined with them as a booby trap. And as Gavia says, she's not baseline. While she's putting in the effort to learn how to survive without her tech, she's also not making any attempts to interact with the locals. In the end, I think she just wants to go home and put the whole ordeal behind her. And never have to look at Ardent's face again.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 01 Aug 2016, 13:57
OK,  I'm getting tired of Gavias attitude.

Yes, she's only down there because Ardent went down and she followed to bring him back, but being stuck there isn't Ardents fault, the Praeses have, for some reason, abandoned them there.

Yes, she lost her Nanotech abilities because the Night Walker stole it and used it for whatever purpose, but Ardent didn't call the Night Walker to do it, nor, I believe, would he want that to happen to her.  He's just not that kind of a guy.

Someone needs to give Gavia a good slap upside the head and a dressing down.  She's behaving like a spoiled brat.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: TinPenguin on 01 Aug 2016, 14:03
Well, she IS a spoiled brat.

She's slowly been stripped of her 'spoiled' credentials since arriving, but is still stubbornly holding on to the 'brat'.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Aug 2016, 14:52
Let's look at this. Her brother does something stupid. She is sent to bring him back. In the process, she was beat badly. To say she handled the situation badly is an understatement. She figured she would go down there, make a big scene, grab Ardent and zoom away. Instead she gets beat nearly to death and abandoned in a foreign country by her trusted elders. Ardent loves it, he wanted to come here. Gavia just wants to go home. She tries to adjust some to a completely foreign environment only to have that disrupted once again by Ardent. First getting them lost in the woods, then with his upgrade power. This leads to another disruption in her life when Alice tries to kill Ardent, then decides to take them on a road trip. But at least the goal of that could lead to the kids returning home. Then she gets attacked again. Mentally and physically violated, nearly killed and with her agency stripped from her, then left in a coma for a short while.  She's got damn good reason to be mad at Argent and the Prases. But Ardent is the one who is here.

So in short.. People are saying that the girl who has suffered months of fear, physical attacks, abandonment, having her world ideological view turned upside down, suffered what is pretty darn close to rape which left her nearly dead and without her primary means of interacting with the world around her.. Yet is still focusing on continuing and learning about how to survive and get by in a world she doesn't even want to be on. And people are saying she's just being bratty and needs to be slapped. No, she needs some serious crisis help. She was never the most pleasant person, this is true. But she's been through far more trauma than the rest of the cast combined since the comic started.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jheartney on 01 Aug 2016, 19:21
She is sent to bring him back.

Uh, no. She asked to be sent down (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/107925637899/exposition-finally). Her presence on Earth is at her own initiative.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 01 Aug 2016, 20:04
She is sent to bring him back.

Uh, no. She asked to be sent down (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/107925637899/exposition-finally). Her presence on Earth is at her own initiative.

And if she did not she'd be wracked with guilt for doing nothing.  Just as Ardent would be if he let Gavia be killed by Alice or the Nightwalker.  Only a sociopath would leave their siblings to die so that's hardly a free choice.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 01 Aug 2016, 20:45
A choice made  under duress can not be equated with a choice freely made.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jheartney on 01 Aug 2016, 22:40
"Wracked with guilt" doesn't jibe at all with my impression of Gavia at the start of the comic. Remember, at that time she was operating under the assumption that both of them could get transport back to orbit just by asking. I don't think she was worried about Ardent so much as pissed at him that he'd left, and so she was going to take it on herself to go grab him by his pointed ears and drag him back up, in as humiliating a fashion as possible. She didn't think he was in danger; she thought he was being naughty, and, praeses pet that she was, she'd teach him a lesson. She was shocked and horrified to discover she was marooned on Earth with him. Even with nanotech.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 02 Aug 2016, 05:30
"Wracked with guilt" doesn't jibe at all with my impression of Gavia at the start of the comic. Remember, at that time she was operating under the assumption that both of them could get transport back to orbit just by asking. I don't think she was worried about Ardent so much as pissed at him that he'd left, and so she was going to take it on herself to go grab him by his pointed ears and drag him back up, in as humiliating a fashion as possible. She didn't think he was in danger; she thought he was being naughty, and, praeses pet that she was, she'd teach him a lesson. She was shocked and horrified to discover she was marooned on Earth with him. Even with nanotech.

I'm referring to her doing nothing at all after hearing that Ardent went to Earth.  She could've decided that it would serve him right if his wanderlust lead to banishment, but she'd probably spend the rest of her life worried about what happened to her brother so she went off to retrieve him.  Moreover, after the near fatal beat down she got from Alice she was still willing to risk defending him when Alice came to the conclusion that the only way to stop whatever the Praeses had planned was to kill Ardent.  She cares about him for all the good that has done so is it really so much that she should lash out at him since his actions have ultimately lead to where she is right now.  And do keep in mind she only woke up from that coma a few days ago.  She is still processing a lot and taking it a lot better than most of us.

OK,  I'm getting tired of Gavias attitude.

Yes, she's only down there because Ardent went down and she followed to bring him back, but being stuck there isn't Ardents fault, the Praeses have, for some reason, abandoned them there.

Yes, she lost her Nanotech abilities because the Night Walker stole it and used it for whatever purpose, but Ardent didn't call the Night Walker to do it, nor, I believe, would he want that to happen to her.  He's just not that kind of a guy.

Someone needs to give Gavia a good slap upside the head and a dressing down.  She's behaving like a spoiled brat.

Ardent may not be completely to blame for everything that happened, but his actions have had consequences for her more than him and aside from being apologetic about the whole thing has he displayed any evidence to make her think he's changed?  If he is a danger to her well being it makes perfect sense to have nothing more to do with him once they return. 

While I think Ardent might be right about her having fun with the archaeophiles or at least see if they are worth spending time with his judgment of things really isn't the best so I cannot fault her for preferring to remain where she is.  A brat would be looking for attention and making everyone feel sorry for her.  She's just keeping to herself and not bothering anybody except the one person who won't leave her alone and has the greatest reason to dislike.  She's an introvert who shouldn't have to join the crowd because it's the popular thing to do.  For someone with the patron saint of misery chicks as an avatar I would think you'd be more sympathetic.   


Well, she IS a spoiled brat.

She's slowly been stripped of her 'spoiled' credentials since arriving, but is still stubbornly holding on to the 'brat'.

Who among us isn't?  Seriously we live our first world lives arguing about fictional characters.  If we were suddenly flung into a backward foreign world with no money or technology because of a loved one's carelessness we probably wouldn't be nearly as pleasant about it. 

 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 02 Aug 2016, 13:46
I guess what I've been waiting for/expecting is to see Ardent forced into some kind of character development. I think he's close to the edge now seeing for real how broken his relationship with Gavs is.

Now I think what he "needs" is for someone to seriously not have his back and for him to face a Serious Consequence alone, no training wheels, no bouncy net underneath--I suspect that's what this comic might be signalling is coming.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Gyrre on 03 Aug 2016, 00:58
Does anyone else think that the guy sitting behind Alice looks vaguely familiar from QC?
Possibly a descendant of Steve, perhaps?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 03 Aug 2016, 04:31
I guess what I've been waiting for/expecting is to see Ardent forced into some kind of character development. I think he's close to the edge now seeing for real how broken his relationship with Gavs is.

Now I think what he "needs" is for someone to seriously not have his back and for him to face a Serious Consequence alone, no training wheels, no bouncy net underneath--I suspect that's what this comic might be signalling is coming.

Here's hoping for that.  I don't hate Ardent, but I can understand how his previous reckless behavior has driven a wedge between him and Gavia.  Even if she is restored completely if Ardent learns nothing from this it's only a matter of time before he'll get himself into trouble again and she'd have to seriously consider coming to his aid if at all. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 03 Aug 2016, 13:36
Does anyone else think that the guy sitting behind Alice looks vaguely familiar from QC?
Possibly a descendant of Steve, perhaps?

Looks like Barry's sane older brother.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Aug 2016, 16:17
Ardent didn't have any before he was mined with them as a booby trap.
Wait, what? What makes you think that? I could be wrong, but I remember Ardent saying he had nano, but he just didn't use it as much as Gavia.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Welu on 03 Aug 2016, 17:21
This strip he's asked why he doesn't use nano by Alice. (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/110864583014/cute-lil-plant-guy) I don't think his appearance has been explained thoroughly if there's any nanos involved in them, like possibly with the regrowing, but that might have been a different kind of alteration.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 04 Aug 2016, 00:30
This strip he's asked why he doesn't use nano by Alice. (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/110864583014/cute-lil-plant-guy) I don't think his appearance has been explained thoroughly if there's any nanos involved in them, like possibly with the regrowing, but that might have been a different kind of alteration.

And this would be another reason why Gavia hates Ardent.  Even if he never intended for the Nightwalker to attack her it did and without her nanotechnology she's forced to experience things through her natural senses which is his philosophical outlook.  No one likes having someone's philosophy forced on them.  Perhaps it's also her reason to refuse to do anything else, but survive as her way of defying his point of view. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 09 Aug 2016, 14:49
Are we now at 8 days between updates? Is Jeph ill?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Stoutfellow on 09 Aug 2016, 14:52
Earlier today, Jeph tweeted: "There will be an Alice at some point this week too"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 09 Aug 2016, 14:59
Also, Jeph has stated pretty plainly that Alice has to take a back seat to QC and his travel schedule, so while I'm jonesing for a new AG, I get that updates will be sporadic, especially during convention season
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Carl-E on 10 Aug 2016, 09:54
Does anyone else see a bit of Dora's attitude towards Sven in Gavia's reaction to Ardent?  A general loathing born of envy at the ease with which the male gets by socially? 

There's probably a feminist rant in there somewhere, but I'm tired. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: hedgie on 10 Aug 2016, 11:08
Above any sibling rivalry, at this point, he's a walking, talking reminder of what she has lost.  It's one thing to be "normal" all of one's life.  If one has super-powers (which the nanos basically are) and then loses them, it's going to be a heavy blow.  Having to be constantly reminded of that isn't exactly going to make the loon a happy person. 

Also, unlike Sven, Ardent is basically an innocent.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 10 Aug 2016, 11:36
Does anyone else see a bit of Dora's attitude towards Sven in Gavia's reaction to Ardent?  A general loathing born of envy at the ease with which the male gets by socially? 

There's probably a feminist rant in there somewhere, but I'm tired.

Somewhat, but I don't think gender has anything to do with it.  If Gavia was a boy I think the resentment would still exist on account of all the misfortune suffered while Ardent has everything going for him.  I agree that Sven's life seemed to be fairly free of challenges, however, Dora believed Sven was favored above her which may be a biased sibling perspective.  The straw that broke the camel's back in their relationship was his love and leave them attitude with her friends.  Ardent's a libertine, but I don't think he's ever done the same since Gavia doesn't have any friends anyway.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 12 Aug 2016, 08:59
New Comic up!

Hmmm... I wonder if we have finally met the Big Bad? One of the worst sort - the one who causes harm by a combination of selfish desire and ignorance.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 12 Aug 2016, 09:41
Its the government!!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 12 Aug 2016, 11:18
ok... it took me a while to realize that the flunky with the clipboard did not have big plain yellow oval butterfly wings.

I hope I wasn't alone.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 Aug 2016, 11:31
New Comic up!

Hmmm... I wonder if we have finally met the Big Bad? One of the worst sort - the one who causes harm by a combination of selfish desire and ignorance.

He certainly looks sinister, however he could also be leading another faction that doesn't have Ardent and Gavia's best interests in mind, but opposes whatever the Praeses are planning.  He's certainly well organized if he can gather all that intelligence, but there was nothing mentioned about Alice and Sedna.  Either that's a critical bit of missing intelligence or they already know and he isn't concerned so either he's extremely arrogant or perhaps he's just like Alice except his dominion is more than just a small town.  Given the view from his window it looks like his office overlooks a partially submerged city. 

The plot certainly is thickening. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jheartney on 12 Aug 2016, 14:50
Dude looks awfully geeky for a Bond villain. Assuming he's another power center, the comic now has these:

• Alice
• Sedna
• Praeses
• Ardent and his Magical Upgrade Hands
• Nightwalker
• Dr. Geekvillain

New moon crater is still glowing. And yes, I originally thought butterfly-wings as well. Illi crater? Illinois? Are Alice and Co. traveling the drained lake beds of the Great Lakes?

Maybe Dr. Geekvillain knows something about what caused the Blink?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 12 Aug 2016, 15:10
I wondered when The Local Supervillan was going to show up
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: hedgie on 12 Aug 2016, 15:17
Oh gawds, he looks like the love-child of Gendo Ikari and Bill Gates.  That is most certainly a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 12 Aug 2016, 15:46
The flunky has angel wings! No, it's the windowed doors behind her! No, it's a double sight gag -- she will move away and the wings will come with her!

The supergeekvillain looks just like David Willis. I am willing to bet this is deliberate.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Aug 2016, 16:07
If that was the drained lakebed of one of the Great Lakes, they sure are looking in the wrong place for rockets.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 Aug 2016, 16:18
The flunky has angel wings! No, it's the windowed doors behind her! No, it's a double sight gag -- she will move away and the wings will come with her!

The supergeekvillain looks just like David Willis. I am willing to bet this is deliberate.

If that's true then there's probably a Danielle Corsetto and Randy Milholland doppleganger somewhere. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Aug 2016, 17:22
If that was the drained lakebed of one of the Great Lakes, they sure are looking in the wrong place for rockets.
Oh crap, they're digging up the stash I hid under Lake Mendota!

Uh...

...I mean, they're digging up nothing at all! Disregard anything I said!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 12 Aug 2016, 17:32
If that was the drained lakebed of one of the Great Lakes, they sure are looking in the wrong place for rockets.
Oh crap, they're digging up the stash I hid under Lake Mendota!

Uh...

...I mean, they're digging up nothing at all! Disregard anything I said!

If it still exists after 5000 years then you must have some primo shit. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Aug 2016, 18:06
Of course, as soon as I say that, I immediately thought of a draining of the Gulf of Mexico instead. THEN you'd have some stuff.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 13 Aug 2016, 13:00

The supergeekvillain looks just like David Willis. I am willing to bet this is deliberate.

If that's true then there's probably a Danielle Corsetto and Randy Milholland doppleganger somewhere.

Somewhere indeed. Danielle may already be here. And @damnyouwillis too.
(http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss24/Steve_Rapaport/agimage_zpsbp1iztla.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 13 Aug 2016, 18:27

The supergeekvillain looks just like David Willis. I am willing to bet this is deliberate.

If that's true then there's probably a Danielle Corsetto and Randy Milholland doppleganger somewhere.

Somewhere indeed. Danielle may already be here. And @damnyouwillis too.
(http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss24/Steve_Rapaport/agimage_zpsbp1iztla.jpg)

Thank you for sharing. It's been a few years since I've seen Corsetto.  I thought she still had that pixie cut.  Maybe the big dude behind our mystery man resembles Milholland, but we can't see his face yet.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: hedgie on 13 Aug 2016, 21:13
Funny.  To me he looks less like Willis and more like Bill Gates.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 14 Aug 2016, 01:26
One bit of intelligence I doubt they have is Gavia's current state which may work to the group's advantage.  Even if this mystery man is another immortal he'd still be up against two of his kind although he might be able to buy off Sedna with weapons.  However, Alice would probably be more than a match for him and seeing as how his minions have been secretly gathering intelligence they are likely to act stealthily instead of just outright attacking.  As such Ardent would be easy enough to kidnap, but if they're looking for a pale white girl with red eyes that floats they may look right past her. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 14 Aug 2016, 11:03
Do those oval windowed internal doors resemble any current noteworthy/notorious US buildings? I've seen them on a late 60s IT suite in the UK, albeit not in a panelled room, but doubt that's the inspiration...

Also, any new thoughts on Geography - threads past. Illi crater is interesting, I would have thought the blink would have  filled in nuke craters, and is Illi = Illinois a fair assumption do you think?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 14 Aug 2016, 11:27
Anyone else notice the scene outside this guy's window? Looks like he's in a flooded city. New York after a sea level rise, perhaps?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 14 Aug 2016, 12:05
Anyone else notice the scene outside this guy's window? Looks like he's in a flooded city. New York after a sea level rise, perhaps?

I did and those buildings must be built of some highly durable material to survive 5000 years of neglect. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 14 Aug 2016, 16:11
Is that supposed to be teeth? Looks very weird. At first I thought it's a moustache. If they are teeth they are very weird teeth, or maybe I'm just not familiar with some anime conventions.

I'm talking about the fourth panel of the last Alice Grove, can't find a way to link to it directly.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Aug 2016, 18:40
Is that supposed to be teeth? Looks very weird. At first I thought it's a moustache. If they are teeth they are very weird teeth, or maybe I'm just not familiar with some anime conventions.

I'm talking about the fourth panel of the last Alice Grove (http://www.alicegrove.com/post/148839923804/i-hope-to-get-back-to-2-updates-a-week-soon-thank), can't find a way to link to it directly.

You have to click on the "archive" link to get the link to the particular page.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Welu on 15 Aug 2016, 06:56
Looks the same to me as most conventional cartoon ways of depicting teeth.

(http://i.imgur.com/LcfYEra.jpg)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 16 Aug 2016, 10:38
Looks the same to me as most conventional cartoon ways of depicting teeth.

But definitely not the way Jeph usually draws mouths though. Its a very US politician smile I think, doubtless intentionally. Possibly the way the lack of significant lips accentuates that, but he seems to draw many characters without much in the way of lips.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 16 Aug 2016, 12:42
Looks the same to me as most conventional cartoon ways of depicting teeth.

But definitely not the way Jeph usually draws mouths though. Its a very US politician smile I think, doubtless intentionally. Possibly the way the lack of significant lips accentuates that, but he seems to draw many characters without much in the way of lips.

Definitely the way a certain other cartoonist (who looks an awful lot the same as this character) likes to draw teeth though. 

(http://2.gravatar.com/avatar/edea891929f553d21799b0f4e26d8c84?s=64&d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dumbingofage.com%2Fwp-content%2Fthemes%2Fcomicpress-dumbingofage%2Fimages%2Favatars%2F201502%2Favroz.png&r=g)
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 16 Aug 2016, 14:53
Oh gawds, he looks like the love-child of Gendo Ikari and Bill Gates.  That is most certainly a recipe for disaster.

I'm starting to get a Big O vibe from this story.  The world was magically reset after an apocalyptic war and we have this mysterious character ruling over what appears to be the partially submerged ruins of a major city much like Paradigm City's Alex Rosewater.  Perhaps he is a fusion of all 3.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 19 Aug 2016, 10:08
New Comic!

Alice is proposing to punch her way through the roof of the bunker. She says this with the sort of calm expression that tells me that she entirely expects this to succeed. This, by the way, puts her in the Superman-level in terms of brute physical strength.

Suddenly, I find myself wondering just what the upper limit of her strength might be, assuming that she has one. Could it be that her standoffishness may be because she lives in a world of cardboard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfCardboardSpeech) (warning TV Tropes link)?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 19 Aug 2016, 11:12
New Comic!

Alice is proposing to punch her way through the roof of the bunker. She says this with the sort of calm expression that tells me that she entirely expects this to succeed. This, by the way, puts her in the Superman-level in terms of brute physical strength.

Suddenly, I find myself wondering just what the upper limit of her strength might be, assuming that she has one. Could it be that her standoffishness may be because she lives in a world of cardboard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfCardboardSpeech) (warning TV Tropes link)?

Possibly.  Even though Alice was evenly matched with Sedna if the fight continued there was likely to be a lot of collateral damage (Ardent and Gavia) and for that matter when she first fought Gavia she might have thought she was up against another immortal and didn't want her town to be destroyed in the fight.  As such she may prefer to talk rather than fight considering what the outcome could be.  However, I think outliving everybody probably affects her psyche in ways we couldn't possibly understand. 

Congratulations to all those who predicted Alice would punch her way in. 

The little guy wants to visit with Ellie, but I doubt she'll be speaking alone.   
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 19 Aug 2016, 12:00
Interesting that its just "little guy".  That must say something about his/the country's political system if he's the head honcho and not recognised. But then maybe  he's not the country's boss.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 19 Aug 2016, 12:04
I doubt that he's boss of much more than the flooded city and its immediate surroundings. Post-Blink Earth doesn't have much in the way of long-range communications and certainly doesn't seem to have the population to support standing armies of any significant size. Most regions seem to be mostly autonomous to the point where very little seems to be known about the world outside of them (even by people like Alice, whom you would expect to want to keep informed).

Basically, whatever power the Little Guy has would come from his ability to offer Ellie something that she wants.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 19 Aug 2016, 13:47
Having seen Alice and Sedna with whatever their superpowers are, Gavia's use of nanotech, Ardent's discretionary and recreational use of non-baseline body modification, I'm wondering if the little dude is a have- or a have-not for this stuff. Given that he's physically small yet leads some kind of big organization complete with big goons, I'm betting on him having some new specialness that we haven't seen yet.

also, I wonder if he and Alice will have a "hello again, old [enemy|friend]" moment
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 19 Aug 2016, 14:00
Having seen Alice and Sedna with whatever their superpowers are, Gavia's use of nanotech, Ardent's discretionary and recreational use of non-baseline body modification, I'm wondering if the little dude is a have- or a have-not for this stuff. Given that he's physically small yet leads some kind of big organization complete with big goons, I'm betting on him having some new specialness that we haven't seen yet.

also, I wonder if he and Alice will have a "hello again, old [enemy|friend]" moment

That's what I'm thinking otherwise the next scene is going to be very anticlimactic.

He has to know about Alice since the intelligence gathering would've undoubtedly required a visit to her village.  And he probably knows about Sedna since they've been following a trail. 

If he's not another immortal he could be another space dweller possibly marooned or defected and didn't lose his nanotechnology. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 19 Aug 2016, 16:57
"So, we meet again old friend"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 19 Aug 2016, 23:33
"ALICE! THE BLONDE GODDESS ENDURES!"

"Oh god, it's the creepy fanboy! Before we start, no, I will not tattoo my autograph across your backside!"
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 20 Aug 2016, 01:13
. Post-Blink Earth doesn't have much in the way of long-range communications
It must have something that travels orders of magnitude faster than a Struthi cart for the communications to have reached him. And even if you posit something as low tech as a carrier pigeon network then there's a substantial body of work just getting the pigeons distributed to what must be a huge network of agents. And there must be a huge number of agents because Alice/Sedna's route has intersected with an appreciable number which can only be at random. Reckon there's a lot going on we haven't been told about yet.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 20 Aug 2016, 03:33
. Post-Blink Earth doesn't have much in the way of long-range communications
It must have something that travels orders of magnitude faster than a Struthi cart for the communications to have reached him. And even if you posit something as low tech as a carrier pigeon network then there's a substantial body of work just getting the pigeons distributed to what must be a huge network of agents. And there must be a huge number of agents because Alice/Sedna's route has intersected with an appreciable number which can only be at random. Reckon there's a lot going on we haven't been told about yet.

They might have telegraphs.  I don't see the lines anywhere, but maybe the mysterious stranger in the fancy carriage might have the lines running underground. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: wlewisiii on 20 Aug 2016, 03:43
Heliographs perhaps?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 21 Aug 2016, 08:34
"So, we meet again old friend"

On a totally unrelated topic, I was once privileged to go on a few business trips to Japan, separated by at least six months. At one point I picked up a slang Japanese phrasebook, and was all hyped up about being able to try out my new street slang. When I got off the plane, a business contact from my last trip was there to meet me. I sprang my cool new expression on him, which according to the phrasebook meant "good to see you again".

His face paled in horror. 

After he got his composure back, he told me not to use that expression again. He said it was only used by Yakuza and gangsters, and it was roughly equivalent to "so, we meet again, my deadly enemy."

Bad phrasebook. Bad. Bad.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 21 Aug 2016, 08:41
My nipples explode with delight.  :-D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 21 Aug 2016, 12:53
My hovercraft is full of eels!
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 21 Aug 2016, 14:23
Well sell them at the fishmarket then  :D
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 25 Aug 2016, 18:07
Strip is up!

And our mystery man has a name.  Although his goon doesn't appear to be a Randy Milholland doppelgänger like I thought.

It would also appear that he has steam technology at least or possibly an early internal combustion engine in that carriage
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: cesium133 on 25 Aug 2016, 18:11
It appears we have a gray-haired Elliot with odd contact lenses there.  :roll:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: jwhouk on 25 Aug 2016, 19:33
I don't think those are contacts.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: sitnspin on 25 Aug 2016, 20:59
This tiny individual seems oddly terrifying somehow.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 25 Aug 2016, 21:37
I'm liking this guy less and less the more I see of him
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 25 Aug 2016, 22:19
I've no idea what that pile of muscle standing next to Ellie might be (and think about how tall and broad she is when it towers over her like that) but something tells me that it isn't good news or particularly defensive in nature. This will almost certainly end in some kind of fight.

I'm liking this guy less and less the more I see of him

I think that Jeph couldn't have made Mr Pate's alignment more clear unless he'd given the character a tee-shirt with 'Primary Antagonist' written on the front! :-P
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 25 Aug 2016, 22:33
The fact that he has a big goon working for him may indicate that he's just a normal human with hired muscle.  As such Ellie might not have any problems introducing him to Alice since she just said she'd punch a hole into the bunker and knows she could make short work of him.  However, this could be misdirection.  Mr. Pate may be another immortal, but prefers to have underlings do his dirty work unless he has to get involved.  He knew about the bunker and that could be due to him being around at the time of the blink.  I would find it odd that he wouldn't know anything about Alice considering everything they know about Ardent and Gavia would require his spies visiting her village. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: renfield1969 on 26 Aug 2016, 07:51
I am curious about this little guy.

Is he wearing smartglasses or is it just an artistic choice that we can't see his eyes?

Is that a solar panel on top of his carriage?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 26 Aug 2016, 12:38
Sure looks like a solar panel on top of a steam engine. Steampunk City?

It is a bit strange, ominous even, that Pate (I first read it Date - either it's a confusing font, or I need a new prescrition) and his agents are totally disinterested in Alice+Sedna.

Anyway, Ellie knows she needs to stay in friendly terms with Pate. May be he really has been their main source of hints of good sites to dig, may be he is financing/supplying the team of diggers? Or, just is capable of making their life uncomfortable enough that Ellie thinks it's simpler to humor the man.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 26 Aug 2016, 14:00
It could be both
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 26 Aug 2016, 16:58
The fact that he has a big goon working for him may indicate that he's just a normal human with hired muscle.  As such Ellie might not have any problems introducing him to Alice since she just said she'd punch a hole into the bunker and knows she could make short work of him.  However, this could be misdirection.  Mr. Pate may be another immortal, but prefers to have underlings do his dirty work unless he has to get involved.  He knew about the bunker and that could be due to him being around at the time of the blink.  I would find it odd that he wouldn't know anything about Alice considering everything they know about Ardent and Gavia would require his spies visiting her village.

He either knows nothing about Alice and Sedna, or everything about them.

The heterochromia goon -- are we sure that's Mr. Pate's and not Ellie's? He just appears out of nowhere.  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MismatchedEyes

Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: DSL on 26 Aug 2016, 17:00
Solar panel or windshield. Maybe both, if a certain tech I'm reading about matured in time to survive the Blink. There's a person under the panel, where a driver would be on a stagecoach or carriage. Front part, if what looks like a radiator grille is in fact a radiator grille, suggests an internal combustion engine.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Storel on 26 Aug 2016, 21:45
The heterochromia goon -- are we sure that's Mr. Pate's and not Ellie's? He just appears out of nowhere.

He's wearing the same white-shirt/gray-suspenders combo as Mr. Pate and his cap looks like a chauffeur's cap, so I think he's probably the driver whose legs we can see in the first panel. He may have been shutting down the carriage engine, or at least banking the fires, while Mr. Pate started chatting with Ellie.

Edit for further thoughts:

Front part, if what looks like a radiator grille is in fact a radiator grille, suggests an internal combustion engine.

The smokestack, though, strongly suggests a steam engine.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 27 Aug 2016, 08:26
It's obvious that Mr. Pate is not the slightest bit interested in Ellie or her discoveries this time, and really wants to meet her guests. He's not really being very subtle about it either. More evidence for the ubergeek assessment.

His glasses seriously glow, like Dale's. I have to wonder what available technology makes that possible, and what makes it useful. Are these AR glasses? HUD with internet connection? Or just a way to see in the dark? Any of them seem impossible post-blink to me, and his carriage doesn't seem to have advanced beyond the Industrial Revolution, so what's his technology deal?

Solar panel? How is that combined with the apparent steam engine? Or maybe they're totally separate, and the solar panel is the power source for his glasses or some other tech hidden in the carriage?
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 27 Aug 2016, 11:22
Solar panel? How is that combined with the apparent steam engine? Or maybe they're totally separate, and the solar panel is the power source for his glasses or some other tech hidden in the carriage?

You can generate steam with solar heat; it could be an ultra-efficient light-to-heat converter material that was dug up at some point in the past. Note the lack of smoke coming from the cart so it is unlikely to be using coal or wood to heat its boiler.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: JimC on 27 Aug 2016, 12:50
Note the lack of smoke coming from the cart so it is unlikely to be using coal or wood to heat its boiler.
Ideally you arrive at your destination with the fire just going out, so not necessarily.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Kugai on 27 Aug 2016, 15:16
Plot Twist:  The Glasses are May
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: brasca on 28 Aug 2016, 04:31
Note the lack of smoke coming from the cart so it is unlikely to be using coal or wood to heat its boiler.
Ideally you arrive at your destination with the fire just going out, so not necessarily.

True, but if this carriage is steam driven then it would need to lug around its fuel source since there isn't much wood to burn out there and I doubt there are any colliers.  I could be wrong since the wagon train could've passed through some settlements that have coal for sale, but if this carriage is like a locomotive without tracks then it would need wood or coal.  It could also have an internal combustion engine, but unless it's very fuel efficient it's even more unlikely that there would be a gas station along the way to refuel which would make such a vehicle unreliable.  As such it is quite possible that it runs on some advanced solar power technology that was recovered as BenRG conjectures. 

As for the glasses Mr. Pate may prefer mirrored glass to obscure his eyes either because it looks intimidating or to disguise some abnormality.  I find it difficult to believe that anything as sophisticated as Dale's glasses could be found intact and still be operational after so many millennia and even if it miraculously did work there isn't any internet for it to link with. 

However, it may be a gift from someone who does possess such technology.  Perhaps Mr. Pate is a collaborator of the Praeses and for his loyalty he's rewarded such trinkets. 
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 29 Aug 2016, 15:15
I'm pretty sure Heterochromia Goon was the tall guy we only saw the torso of in the "two weeks previous" strip.

He looks like he was badly broken and put back together uncarefully.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Skewbrow on 30 Aug 2016, 04:46
Possibly. But also, when the population is large enough, there will be people who are taller than 6ft10in and have shoulders the size of barn doors. Such a person is more likely than your Joe average to get hired as security. Even if they have the character of an Elliot-like gentle giant.
Mismatched irises add to the fear factor (meaning that the character will hardly ever be tested).

The point was that with enough natural diversity in the population, there is less need for bio-engineering folks to meet rare specs. That's why China did well in the Olympics.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: FunkyTuba on 30 Aug 2016, 15:25
..with enough natural diversity in the population, there is less need for bio-engineering folks to meet rare specs...

Sure... your point is well taken and is valid for natural populations. This population is being carefully selected for our viewing pleasure by Mr Jacques... I think Chekhov's Heterochromia might apply  :claireface:
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: retrosteve on 31 Aug 2016, 12:32
Sure... your point is well taken and is valid for natural populations. This population is being carefully selected for our viewing pleasure by Mr Jacques... I think Chekhov's Heterochromia might apply  :claireface:

Well, TVTropes has this to say about plot devices involving heterochromia:

Quote
When a character has differently colored eyes, it may represent one of the following:

    Duality Motif: Differently colored eyes foreshadow/reinforce a dual nature about the character.
    Electronic Eye: One eye is cybernetic.
    Glass Eye: One of their eyes is a prosthesis.
    Magical Eye: One eye grants them magical powers.
    Mark of the Supernatural: Marks the character as special in some way, whether as magical, nonhuman, or something else entirely.
    Real Life: Heterochromia iridum Bear in mind that while healthy individuals can have this, it is often a sign of medical problems.
    Red Right Hand: To foreshadow/reinforce something evil about the character.
    Shared Unusual Trait: Two or more characters have differently colored eyes because they're related or connected somehow.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Neko_Ali on 31 Aug 2016, 13:08
Given that the left eye is almost white and only has a pinprick of an iris, while the other is normal size, I'm think it's a glass eye and not heterochromia.
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Storel on 17 Sep 2016, 14:10
Given that the left eye is almost white and only has a pinprick of an iris, while the other is normal size, I'm think it's a glass eye and not heterochromia.

Glass eyes are usually made to look as real as possible -- why would someone make a glass eye that looks weird? I'm thinking the left eye is more likely to be natural (and have had some kind of injury or disease).
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: BenRG on 17 Sep 2016, 14:14
Given that the left eye is almost white and only has a pinprick of an iris, while the other is normal size, I'm think it's a glass eye and not heterochromia.

White irises and pinprick pupils are usually an easy visual cue for blindness or injury. It's possible that we're about to find out the upper resilience limits of the Immortals.

"What happened to his eye?"

"I fired an artillery rail-gun into his face."
Title: Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - August 2016
Post by: Storel on 17 Sep 2016, 14:43
Or, if Alice is only recognizing his type rather than him, personally, the strange eye may be some kind of weapon system.

I'm thinking that she recognizes him, though. Like someone else said, I bet she took him apart once, and Mr. Pate put him back together.

Why would she be so nervous if she's already beaten him before? Well, maybe she only beat him because she had a weapon available that she doesn't have now.

On the other hand, you'd think he'd show more recognition of her if she'd beaten him up in the past. So maybe she is simply recognizing his type.

On the gripping hand, if he were a recognizable type, wouldn't Sedna recognize him too? Argh, I wish Jeph would go back to 2 strips a week. So much uncertainty!