Since Alice, Sedna, and Church can are modified or evolved to survive in space, they presumably have some way of moving about there, too.
Looks like Alice decided to make her move on Church. I guess this is the showdown. Place your bets.
Looks like Alice decided to make her move on Church. I guess this is the showdown. Place your bets.
Alice or Sedna. But my money's on Alice. To be the one in the white space armor AND to win the match. Of course, if the "refs" step in, who knows...
I'm afraid I'm starting to get the impression that Jeph is getting fed up with having to fit in writing Alice Grove alongside QC, and so is hurrying to reach an end. This would help explain the lack of clarity in showing the details of what's happening in the last few strips.
I'm afraid I'm starting to get the impression that Jeph is getting fed up with having to fit in writing Alice Grove alongside QC, and so is hurrying to reach an end. This would help explain the lack of clarity in showing the details of what's happening in the last few strips.
Gavia can't make a dent in an Alice-class entity (see her first appearance for what happened when she tried).That was Gavia pre-enhancement. Like I said before, who knows how powerful Gavia is?
Is Alice expecting the Praeses to intervene?
Otherwise, she knows that she and Sedna together are no match for Church, and that Gavia can't make a dent in an Alice-class entity (see her first appearance for what happened when she tried).
So the possibilities are that Alice has sized up Gavia's rebooted abilities and thinks they are a game changer, or she expects the Praeses Public Peacekeeping Patrol to weigh in on her side, or she's desperate.
A desperate Alice strikes me as something I would not want on my world line.
Well keep in mind that in space no one can hear you scream.I thought nowadays that reads "in cyberspace you can hear everybody groan".
I don't think Gavia is that much powerful than before, but she's provided a distraction that took both Pate and Church by surprise. It's not enough and from the look of it Alice can move in space so I'll assume Church can too which is why she's attacking him. She doesn't stand a chance, but she doesn't need to engage him for long. She's succeeded in separating Church from Pate so now Sedna can capture him. Once she does he'll order Church to stand down and the battle is won.
I'm afraid I'm starting to get the impression that Jeph is getting fed up with having to fit in writing Alice Grove alongside QC, and so is hurrying to reach an end. This would help explain the lack of clarity in showing the details of what's happening in the last few strips.
For whatever reason, Church's prime directive is to protect Pate.
Well, I don't agree, but I don't think it really matters. I wasn't intending to be that specific. Whether he's been programmed/coerced, or is acting by conscious choice because he needs Pate for something, the result is the same: protecting Pate is priority #1, and nothing else presently comes close. I think that his actions immediately after Gavia's attack strongly support this.For whatever reason, Church's prime directive is to protect Pate.
Actually, I think that's misreading Church. For whatever reason, he's chosen to work with Pate.
Ellie. Ardent had the hots for her. Gavia at least liked her, and watched Church murder her and maim Sedna. I reckon Gavia hates his guts enough to try and dismember him in a berserk rage. Who's shooting at Church? Sedna's the Weapons Queen but our genial horndog Ardent wouldn't pass up a chance at revenge for killing Ellie either. And he might be able to convert a simple flashlight into an energy weapon.
It's probably Gavia shooting those energy beams. Potentially it's a previous unrevealed power of Sedna's, but the last we saw she was using her one good arm to try and keep Ardent from flying off. The beams were coming from Behind Church, and from last positioning Church had his back to the ship when Gavia exploded.Lack of effectiveness also suggests the beams are from Gavia. Tech level that could harm Pate, but not Church.
It's probably Gavia shooting those energy beams. Potentially it's a previous unrevealed power of Sedna's, but the last we saw she was using her one good arm to try and keep Ardent from flying off. The beams were coming from Behind Church, and from last positioning Church had his back to the ship when Gavia exploded.Lack of effectiveness also suggests the beams are from Gavia. Tech level that could harm Pate, but not Church.
Prediction: Sedna is fully healed and has been playing possum. Will join the fray in the next panel.
Church seems to have grown in size from last week to this. For a bit I thought he'd grown hair too, but I guess those are motion lines.
Wouldn't want to be Pate right about now.
It does seem that the immortals (Alice & Church) can move about in space at will. Gavia's nanotech can apparently produce a habitable bubble. Now if they can strip Pate's gold pressure suit off, then Church will not be in any position to attack Gavia; doing so would put Pate at risk.
Good to see my suspicions confirmed although it seems that it was a joint effort of Gavia and Sedna that captured Pate.
Hopefully, Alice can survive this onslaught because this being the vacuum of space it's not like they can call out to Church to stand down now that his king is captured.
They seem to have some way of propelling themselves through space, but it's uncertain as to whether Sedna grabbed Pate while Church was away fighting Alice or Gavia has been absorbing everyone into her force field. She had the ability to cancel gravity so her abilities may be upgraded beyond that and she can also cruise through space. She's not wearing her space suit so I'll assume she can breathe in the bubble she's created. And from the looks of it she seems to have calmed down since she's not firing energy blasts at Church so at least they don't have to try to snap her out of a berserker fugue.
They seem to have some way of propelling themselves through space, but it's uncertain as to whether Sedna grabbed Pate while Church was away fighting Alice or Gavia has been absorbing everyone into her force field. She had the ability to cancel gravity so her abilities may be upgraded beyond that and she can also cruise through space. She's not wearing her space suit so I'll assume she can breathe in the bubble she's created. And from the looks of it she seems to have calmed down since she's not firing energy blasts at Church so at least they don't have to try to snap her out of a berserker fugue.
I'm not sure Gavia was firing the energy blasts in the first place. Those energy blasts came very close to several of the characters but missed every time (except for the very first one that Church deflected). I'm thinking the blasts may have been anti-meteor defenses taking out what remained of the ship while intentionally avoiding the survivors. As to why the first one actually hit Church... er, no system has perfect aim? Hmm.
I'm still not convinced they're not gods. That is to say, I don't think they were made.Good to see my suspicions confirmed although it seems that it was a joint effort of Gavia and Sedna that captured Pate.
Hopefully, Alice can survive this onslaught because this being the vacuum of space it's not like they can call out to Church to stand down now that his king is captured.
I would have designed supersoldiers with built-in radios.
Good to see my suspicions confirmed although it seems that it was a joint effort of Gavia and Sedna that captured Pate.
Hopefully, Alice can survive this onslaught because this being the vacuum of space it's not like they can call out to Church to stand down now that his king is captured.
I would have designed supersoldiers with built-in radios.
Gavia Shield 1.0 barely slowed down Alice.Good point. Alice is so ridiculously strong she can punch through nano. Ardently enhanced nano is still nano, so...who knows, really.
So... He did well to survive that, and has been training for 5000 years to give Alice her comeuppance. Has she got the reserves to best him again? Well I guess the comic being named for her is a clue, because otherwise it's not looking so good.
Battle Language
An while that character LOOKS like Church, whose to say it is?
An is that Alice at all?!
I reckon Alice is using the same language as Dora has done in the past.
If she can hover then it's an ability she doesn't seem to use anymore.I'm beginning to wonder. Thinking back on it, there are a couple moments where hovering might have been employed. Punching through Gavia's nanotech way back when (http://www.alicegrove.com/page/175) - she had time to make contact, recognize the barrier, deliver a couple of lines, then press on through it. Wouldn't seem possible without levitation (though could have just been artistic license). Also jumping up into the walker to rescue Gavia, it could have come in handy, though there's no evidence in the art. And then of course they all can apparently move in vacuum. Counter evidence is her falling off the wind turbine, obviously.
Now this is quite a panel. A lot to digest.
Seems pretty safe that those are Alice and Church. Alice is instantly recognizable, so for it to not be Church would be a misdirection that I don't immediately see a narrative purpose for. And anyway it helps account for Alice's reaction when she first meets Church. What it does make me think about again though, is if Church's apparent lack of recognition of Alice was due to lost memory, or just very good self-control. I am really leaning towards damaged memory. Continue to believe that Church is cognitively damaged, in significant enough ways that Pate was able to exploit it, and his obedience is not voluntary.
Do think that Alice somehow managed to cripple Church through her own battle prowess (or at least a protracted application of whatever assets she does have at her disposal). The ?orbital? strike doesn't actually look like it did him any damage - looks like it was more about creating the lava pool for him to be locked in. So, she may not have all the resources she had way back when, but I'm expecting she's going to show, in the present, that she's still got some tricks up her sleeve.Quote from: brascaIf she can hover then it's an ability she doesn't seem to use anymore.I'm beginning to wonder. Thinking back on it, there are a couple moments where hovering might have been employed. Punching through Gavia's nanotech way back when (http://www.alicegrove.com/page/175) - she had time to make contact, recognize the barrier, deliver a couple of lines, then press on through it. Wouldn't seem possible without levitation (though could have just been artistic license). Also jumping up into the walker to rescue Gavia, it could have come in handy, though there's no evidence in the art. And then of course they all can apparently move in vacuum. Counter evidence is her falling off the wind turbine, obviously.
I'm also starting to have a hypothesis that Alice's memory/abilities may have degraded somewhat as well (I thought I remembered there being a panel about this, but I wasn't able to find it right away. I'll keep looking). Perhaps she also took damage in the fight we're seeing now, or maybe even super soldiers don't last forever without degradation. There's a possibility that she's going to need to remember some of her own functionality, to win this one.
Thinking back she threatened to seal Sedna in lava so it may not have been an idle threat if she's done it before and works effectively.JINX! You owe me a brew! :-D
So Alice had done this before (http://www.alicegrove.com/page/73).
Edit:Thinking back she threatened to seal Sedna in lava so it may not have been an idle threat if she's done it before and works effectively.JINX! You owe me a brew! :-D
Yeah, I'd say that's a look of recognition on Alice's face. Rather disturbed recognition, at that. She knows him, and is really surprised to see him.
My interpretation: "Hey, didn't I kill you the last time we met?"
She suggested that she could turn rock into lava when threatening Sedna. It's unclear how much that was empty bluster.
This scene could explain why Church has loyalty to Pate. Possibly even why he doesn't speak/has one blank eye. Church has been buried all of this time since Alice submerged him. That possibly cause some damage. They may be incredibly tough and strong, but I would imagine being entirely encased in rock for thousands of years would have some effects.Especially psychological effects. I think that one eye is his crazy eye.
Their peculiar lack of motion says this is something else. A ritual? An agreed-upon conclusion? A submission? It could be any of those, but not the end of a hostile battle.
That's exactly what I tried to say earlier :)
Those "Churches" could be a kind of bodyguard-AI, with the sole purpose to protect a specific being. If this being is killed, the bodyguard loses its purpose and falls back into a state of waiting for a new task.
Just throwing some thoughts in ;)
In this strip ((http://www.alicegrove.com/post/141109595324/they-have-a-super-weird-relationship)), Sedna said Alice had held a grudge against herself for the past 5000 years. The flashback is to 5000 years ago. Maybe Alice betrayed Church or vice versa? Just spitballing ideas.
Unless this fight is taking place within a split second Church could've dodged the attack, but it looks like he is standing down or surrendering.
In other words, this is Church's flashback. He is going to be extremely motivated in this fight.
It is quite possible that this fiasco was what triggered the process leading to The Blink.Skewbrow, I think you got it! It would also explain why, in the last panel, we see Alice floating over him, as this was the last thing he saw before sinking deeper underground. And the his last picture burned into his memory, he now unleashes every bit of anger he built up in 5000 years. If they were fighting on earth instead, it would be devastation all over again. If the Praeses are behind all of this, it could be their way to see this conflict leveld out without destroying too much on a war-cleared-by-blink-earth. They left Alice (and Sedna, maybe there are more of them too?) alone, removed every remainder of tech on earth except the nanobot-walker, sent Ardent and Gavia down, for them to seek a way back "up" again (if Gavia is a tool of the Praeses or not is yet to be revealed) knowing they would need a ship to reach space. Pate, as the power-hungry being he is, unburied Church while looking for a still working spaceship and BOOM! everything comes together at the archeological site, where they surprisedly happen to find a bunker where exactly one of those ships is situated.
May be Church only now recognizes Alices as his nemesis from five thousand years? IIRC this is the first time Church sees Alice in her armor - a scene imprinted into his memory while sinking into lava, as evidenced in the last frame. In other words, this is Church's flashback. He is going to be extremely motivated in this fight.
May be Church only now recognizes Alices as his nemesis from five thousand years? IIRC this is the first time Church sees Alice in her armor - a scene imprinted into his memory while sinking into lava, as evidenced in the last frame. In other words, this is Church's flashback. He is going to be extremely motivated in this fight.
I know it won't happen. But, I would be very lit-geeked if it turns out that Church is the main, or most important, character.
The way things went down before the blink never sat right with him. He's been meaning to have a word with the Praeses. And now, thanks to Ardent's payload, his long years of patience are about to pay off.
This summer, one man takes his vendetta to the stars.
Ron Perlman is
CHURCH(click to show/hide)
But AIs have one special feature that modified organics will never have: they are software. Software can, in theory, be rewritten, upgraded. As Kurzweil and others have speculated, If AI software is intelligent enough to know how to write BETTER AI software, it can upgrade ITSELF.
That better version can then write even BETTER software, and repeat ad infinitum. What results, in theory, is Adam Selene, Skynet, Omega, P1, The Eschaton. Software that is self-aware, with godlike abilities, and brooks no competition. Because it sees lesser AIs as potentially doing the same thing, and doesn't feel like fighting them to the death.
Why are we certain that it's even possible for there to exist an information system of sufficient complexity and orderedness that it can arbitrarily increase its own complexity and orderedness? That always sounded to me like the kind of thing that some mathematician will eventually prove to be impossible.
Not very well; a few thousand years entombed in basalt will do that for you. I also suspect that several millennia of total sensory deprivation didn't do anything good for his sanity either.
My concern really though is: Exactly how are they going to stop him? It's beginning to look like he is a practical immortal - Indestructible and ageless. Unless someone has brought a molecular disintegrator to the party, I suspect that he can shrug off anything anyone does to him!
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Me too.
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Me too.
There's no air to get in the way of the sound waves.Space magic?I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Me too.
Didn't Alice fly up to fight Gavia the first time (Lady Explosion Jesus!) and also when Gavia was captured by the Night Walker?
There's no air to get in the way of the sound waves.There's no air for sound waves to travel through. In space no one can hear you mumble.
Again space magic.There's no air to get in the way of the sound waves.Space magic?I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Me too.
Again space magic.There's no air to get in the way of the sound waves.Space magic?I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Me too.
Of if you'd rather prefer, each of the Alice/Sedna/Church weapons come with an internalised communication ability. Perhaps quantum communication. Or even some version of free-space optical communication.
Or we're simply see a variant of Clarke's Third Law - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Technology on Earth before and in space after the Blink had advanced to such a stage that we literally cannot distinguish where technology ended and magic began. Simply because there is no hard line between the two in the world of Alice Grove.
Same reason Shadow vessels screech through space.
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.
She got knocked down towards the Praeses, which may have sufficient atmosphere to allow sound?
Super strong or not I think this is more painful than Gavia's beat down since Alice can't actually die from these injuries.She can't?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMCYiTounj5jruU/giphy.gif)HE CAN SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
Super strong or not I think this is more painful than Gavia's beat down since Alice can't actually die from these injuries.She can't?
Also:(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMCYiTounj5jruU/giphy.gif)HE CAN SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.Assuming that there isn't more atmosphere here nearby the Praeses than we think there is? Perhaps akin to how they can move. Instead of artificial gravity or magnetic currents or coalesced particles etc, this is Church creating a localized and in this case sound-carrying (300 Hz, 3KHz, whatever) atmosphere between him and Alice. Or he's just really loud, a few thousand bels is beating down space into verbal submission.
Oh, I'm not disputing that Alice would be extremely difficult to kill, and maybe impossible with even Church's pure strength. I don't think she straight up can't die, though at this point that's speculation.Nobody knows if any of these are killable or not, but both Alice and Sedna have been damaged, and Church apparently not unduly put out by being encased within lava etc for thousands of years. We also know that at least in short time scales (geologically speaking) they haven't died. We don't really know about how many others there might have been or what happened to them if there were.
That being said, why did people think that Church couldn't talk?Given that Church has never spoken, it seemed likely he couldn't. Speculation. A tentative assumption. Of course, it's also possible he still hasn't (that what we just saw wasn't speech) or that he can only talk (whatever that entails) with something like Alice, in space, during battle, while near a Praeses.
That being said, why did people think that Church couldn't talk?
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.
Why are we certain that it's even possible for there to exist an information system of sufficient complexity and orderedness that it can arbitrarily increase its own complexity and orderedness? That always sounded to me like the kind of thing that some mathematician will eventually prove to be impossible.
Humans are an information system that finds ways to improve itself. Why would a sufficiently advanced software system not be able to do the same? If anything, a software system should be even more capable.
If the system can make copies of itself and run simulations in a separate storage space, then it doesn't need a perfect understanding of its own programming to make improvements. It can run numerous "beta tests" on a wide variety of potential alterations and integrate the ones that prove positive(click to show/hide)
(I should probably take this to another thread?)
Oh, we're not certain. But until some mathematician proves it impossible, there's no obvious theoretical reason why it is.But AIs have one special feature that modified organics will never have: they are software. Software can, in theory, be rewritten, upgraded. As Kurzweil and others have speculated, If AI software is intelligent enough to know how to write BETTER AI software, it can upgrade ITSELF.
That better version can then write even BETTER software, and repeat ad infinitum. What results, in theory, is Adam Selene, Skynet, Omega, P1, The Eschaton. Software that is self-aware, with godlike abilities, and brooks no competition. Because it sees lesser AIs as potentially doing the same thing, and doesn't feel like fighting them to the death.
Why are we certain that it's even possible for there to exist an information system of sufficient complexity and orderedness that it can arbitrarily increase its own complexity and orderedness? That always sounded to me like the kind of thing that some mathematician will eventually prove to be impossible.
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.
Same way that Tie-fighters do it, obviously!
[Mathematician here...]Oh, we're not certain. But until some mathematician proves it impossible, there's no obvious theoretical reason why it is.But AIs have one special feature that modified organics will never have: they are software. Software can, in theory, be rewritten, upgraded. As Kurzweil and others have speculated, If AI software is intelligent enough to know how to write BETTER AI software, it can upgrade ITSELF.
That better version can then write even BETTER software, and repeat ad infinitum. What results, in theory, is Adam Selene, Skynet, Omega, P1, The Eschaton. Software that is self-aware, with godlike abilities, and brooks no competition. Because it sees lesser AIs as potentially doing the same thing, and doesn't feel like fighting them to the death.
Why are we certain that it's even possible for there to exist an information system of sufficient complexity and orderedness that it can arbitrarily increase its own complexity and orderedness? That always sounded to me like the kind of thing that some mathematician will eventually prove to be impossible.
Turing's Halting Problem shows that a program can't predict another program's output (or lack of it).
Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem shows that a system that can represent itself is ABLE to represent a paradox.
Impossibility of self-improving code is not an obvious consequence of either of these.
And on the other hand, Core Wars shows that programs in competition can learn to adapt and improve. So it's tantalizing.
I'm just wondering how he is projecting sound through a vacuum.
Same way that Tie-fighters do it, obviously!
ISTR the explanation in one of the LucasArts "X-wing" series of computer games was that the TIE fighters aren't really making noise in space; they're throwing off so much energy from their engines that it's overloading the electronics and communications in whatever ship you're in. IOW, your radio is screaming from all the static those things are throwing off.
Hey, I didn't say it made sense.
He recognized Alice at leas[t]
The the other are watching this and seeing Alice getting crushed. I'm thinking the next comic is going to be something like Sedna holding Pate by the neck and telling him to order Church to stand down or else.Could be Sedna, Gavia, Pate, or even Ardent, presuming that's Gavia's force bubble that's covering them. I suppose it could be whatever or whoever serves the Orbitals as a police force arriving, too. Since they appear to have breached the Praeses' trunk or whatever, someone from Damage Control is bound to be arriving presently.
Since they appear to have breached the Praeses' trunk or whatever
Look at his face. He's enjoying himself. I'd say it's less an error and more him prolonging things just a bit because he hasn't had this much fun in five thousand years.
The the other are watching this and seeing Alice getting crushed. I'm thinking the next comic is going to be something like Sedna holding Pate by the neck and telling him to order Church to stand down or else.Could be Sedna, Gavia, Pate, or even Ardent, presuming that's Gavia's force bubble that's covering them. I suppose it could be whatever or whoever serves the Orbitals as a police force arriving, too. Since they appear to have breached the Praeses' trunk or whatever, someone from Damage Control is bound to be arriving presently.
Look at his face. He's enjoying himself. I'd say it's less an error and more him prolonging things just a bit because he hasn't had this much fun in five thousand years.
That's not the error. The error is that in last week's comic, Church was already face to face with Alice (and presumably would have been holding her to prevent escape). In this week's comic, suddenly she has moved away from him, and he has to burst through some green stuff to get to her. How did that happen? What's the green stuff? Why (from a story point of view) bother with this temporary escape?
It's difficult to discern, but in panel 2 I see Church blasting Alice so hard she burst through the trunk or bark of the space habitat and in the third panel he flies through the hole he's made to begin crushing her skull in panel 4 and 5. Now I'm noticing some curvature in the 6th panel as if Pate is now inside a bubble. I doubt Gavia could've arrived in time to erect a force field around him nor do I think she's suicidal . I think the Praeses will be intervening soon.
It's difficult to discern, but in panel 2 I see Church blasting Alice so hard she burst through the trunk or bark of the space habitat and in the third panel he flies through the hole he's made to begin crushing her skull in panel 4 and 5. Now I'm noticing some curvature in the 6th panel as if Pate is now inside a bubble. I doubt Gavia could've arrived in time to erect a force field around him nor do I think she's suicidal . I think the Praeses will be intervening soon.
Ah, now I see. The white shape in panel 2 is Alice hurled through the outside of something and hitting the opposite inside wall; I'd thought it was just a bang of Church bursting through the green material.
5000 years in solidified magma hasn't done anything good for his temper. Still, if he's that powerful, why did he take millennia to break out of some rocks?
5000 years in solidified magma hasn't done anything good for his temper. Still, if he's that powerful, why did he take millennia to break out of some rocks?