"Wenn der Hahn kräht auf dem Mist,Or if you live in Kansas, just wait a few hours for the weather to change.
ändert sich's Wetter - oder's bleibt wie es ist."
("When the cockerel crows on the hour, weather changes - or remains as before" - German "Farmer's weather lore")
I really thought that the reconciliation would happen last week but Jeph instead went off on a tangent about Claire's new hairdo (in a way that made me think he was a bit worried about the reaction to the character redesign).
The reconciliation might happen this week but it occurs to me that it isn't automatically something that has to be shown on-panel unless it involves one or both protagonists having a major epiphany. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if we go back to The Secret Bakery to catch up with what's happening with their incipient romantic triangle. Or we might even address Sam's YouTube ambitions and Marigold's role in them! Only after that will we go back to Faye and Bubbles having their little talk next day, in-universe.
"Wenn der Hahn kräht auf dem Mist,Or if you live in Kansas, just wait a few hours for the weather to change.
ändert sich's Wetter - oder's bleibt wie es ist."
("When the cockerel crows on the hour, weather changes - or remains as before" - German "Farmer's weather lore")
I really thought that the reconciliation would happen last week but Jeph instead went off on a tangent about Claire's new hairdo (in a way that made me think he was a bit worried about the reaction to the character redesign).
Donk!
At this rate, Faye is going to have more dents in her head than Pintsize...
I'm not sure I want Faye and Bubbles to be shipped, so I think it would irritate me if Claire did that. Nothing against same sex relationships or even human-robot relationships, I really just prefer their friendship dynamic and would rather see that long term platonic fondness that Faye and Marten now have. The possibility of something more just seems to me to be a bit too....obvious?Then there's Western society's seeming hang-up that all close non-familial relationships must be romantic/sexual in nature.
Then there's Western society's seeming hang-up that all close non-familial relationships must be romantic/sexual in nature.
(I'm a little ray of sunshine today huh? Can you tell I'm back at work?)
I just DON'T like Claire...
(there... I said it!)
Canadian Tire Money? Is it only good for buying tires in Canada or is it made from tires? My curiosity is piqued.
Canadian Tire Money? Is it only good for buying tires in Canada or is it made from tires? My curiosity is piqued.
Edit: Now this is creepy as f**k
(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/business/2014/09/09/canadian_tire_money_turns_digital_in_new_loyalty_program/canadiantire2011.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x510.jpg)
I just DON'T like Claire...
(there... I said it!)
I just DON'T like Claire...
(there... I said it!)
(http://www.troll.me/images/lost/you-you-monster.jpg)
So, 'Canadian Tyre Money' is what we Brits call 'Loyalty Points' - A store places credits on a personal account based on the amount you spend with them. They later issue coupons on other goods that may or may not be targeted at types of products you already buy with them to a certain value based on the number of points you've earned.Yes, Canadian Tire Money is actual freaking banknotes in denominations from pennies to dollars which you can only use to buy Canadian Tire products. Its anonymous and not part of some weird tracking scheme like grocery-store loyalty cards (where you get a small discount for linking your purchase to your card). I am sure that someone, somewhere has traded pot for Canadian Tire Money.
(http://images.gr-assets.com/books/1328837870l/8588581.jpg)
(wiki, Earworm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earworm)) "An earworm, sometimes known as a brainworm, sticky music, or stuck song syndrome, is a catchy piece of music that continually repeats through a person's mind after it is no longer playing ... The word earworm is possibly a calque from the German Ohrwurm"
Edit: Now this is creepy as f**kNothing creepy about a thrifty Scott.
(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/business/2014/09/09/canadian_tire_money_turns_digital_in_new_loyalty_program/canadiantire2011.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x510.jpg)
Wouldn't Canadian Tire, in the QC universe, probably have cybernetic parts for robots with enough money? :-PThat seems like a plausible direction for them to go in actually. I will consider it canon :P
The most extreme temperature difference in a 24 hour period was on January 15, 1972 in Loma, Montana.
Temps went from -54 F (-47.8 C) to 49 F (9.4 C).
It's probably an accepted currency at Possum Lake.
Canadian Tire Money isn't without value. I'd count it before I'd turn it down. As others have said, it's like airline miles. Would you trade services for airline miles, if you could trade the airline miles for something else later?
If I were Faye, I wouldn't automatically reject that offer of payment. Find out what the coupons are for first!
If I were Faye, I wouldn't automatically reject that offer of payment. Find out what the coupons are for first!
The problem is that Faye lives in Massachusetts, in the U.S. There are no Canadian Tire stores in the U.S., and having to travel to Canada to spend them would probably cost more in real money than the value of the coupons.
Doesn't Pintsize already have a metal dick? (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2926) Why would he need two?
(Shouldn't have asked that. BAD IMAGINATION, BAD. STOP SHOWING ME THAT. BAD!)
I guess it's because oceans act as so-called "heat baths" - they dampen temperature changes. So the farther you're away from one ...Generally this is true, but even here in the Harbour City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney) we can get sudden changes. A southerly front (http://media.bom.gov.au/social/blog/18/the-big-bust-southerly-busters-explained/) is like a wave of cold air sweeping up the coast, and can drop the temperature 10-15 degrees Celsius in minutes:
Canadian Tire money? Is that something you use to purchase fatigue? :P
I wonder if they can be exchanged for Flavian Pobble Beads?
How big do your hailstones get?The most extreme temperature difference in a 24 hour period was on January 15, 1972 in Loma, Montana.
Temps went from -54 F (-47.8 C) to 49 F (9.4 C).
Oh please, Calgary does that on a weekly basis.
...are they still not a couple? I don't think I can tell anymore...
...are they still not a couple? I don't think I can tell anymore...
They are something rarer and more worthy of celebration, close friends.
Jeph had to tell the story eventually and I suppose that the only complaint that I have about this strip is that it fails in context: There was no particular reason why Faye should bring it up or that Bubbles should feel like responding. What I'm saying is that this would have worked a lot better in the immediate aftermath of the revelation about Bubbles's memory.
The likelihood of the other side just guessing the right frequency to take out Bubbles is as close to zero as you can get.
The opposing squad not only had the appropriate EMP weapon, they knew precisely which tuning it needed to knock out Bubbles. How did they get this doubtless top secret information, which both ended the AI soidier program as well as only temporarily incapacitating Bubbles?
Can you spell C.R.E.E.P.Y.B.O.T? I knew you could!
Note how this little manipulation gets AIs out of human wars, while not hurting any AI physically.
Also note that the psychological damage to Bubbles was the thing that made Creepybot break cover; guilt perhaps?
I wonder if they can be exchanged for Flavian Pobble Beads?
Whyever not (http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Universe)? (Though I imagine that exchanging them into Triganic PUs might prove challenging)
Holes.....
]The likelihood of the other side just guessing the right frequency to take out Bubbles is as close to zero as you can get.
Or the weapon scans the frequency spectrum, and the pulse has plenty of harmonics so it covers multiple octaves. The range to be scanned could be inferred from the current state of general technology. A bigger concern is focussing the weapon to get sufficient intensity without taking out the user's own tech (even if not AI soldiers, they are hardly likely to be computer-free).
IMHO, memory is either construction or reconstruction. But it's never storage.I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
...are they still not a couple? I don't think I can tell anymore...
They are something rarer and more worthy of celebration, close friends.
Hang on though....
How can Bubbles remember the incident... but not remember what her colleagues looked like?
A sharp high-energy pulse will be broad-spectrum in any case (a point I overlooked in my earlier post). The comment on focussing stands though, and focussing a broad-spectrum pulse is much harder than focussing a single frequency.
Hang on though....
How can Bubbles remember the incident... but not remember what her colleagues looked like?
Her memories are files (as has been discussed) and said files were apparently wiped?
So how can Bubbles have a selective memory of what happened without seeing the people involved in that self-same incident?
Or, indeed, memories of them prior to said incident? We can't pretend to know how AIs memories work, but we've been given a brief run down throughout the last few months... and no explanation other than them being data files has been given.
So... How?
I think there may be an assumption on the EMP thing.
Everyone assumes it is a broad band burst when it could just as easily be a single fixed frequency burst.
As the height of the pulse becomes larger and its width becomes smaller, it approaches a Dirac delta function and the magnitude spectrum flattens out and becomes a constant of magnitude 1 in the limit.
Worse, Antennae ... :-D
For what it's worth, that picture isn't of an advancing cold front, but of a derecho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho)). The characteristic wall cloud of an approaching derecho looks very different from the typical horizontal bands carried by an advancing cold front.I guess it's because oceans act as so-called "heat baths" - they dampen temperature changes. So the farther you're away from one ...Generally this is true, but even here in the Harbour City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney) we can get sudden changes. A southerly front (http://media.bom.gov.au/social/blog/18/the-big-bust-southerly-busters-explained/) is like a wave of cold air sweeping up the coast, and can drop the temperature 10-15 degrees Celsius in minutes:
(https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2015/01/Alex-Marks-Storm-5.jpg)
Canadian Tire money? Is that something you use to purchase fatigue? :P
For what it's worth, that picture isn't of an advancing cold front, but of a derecho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho)). The characteristic wall cloud of an approaching derecho looks very different from the typical horizontal bands carried by an advancing cold front.It appears that term is specific to North America, and I have never heard it used here. The Wikipedia article you link describes the derecho specifically as only occurring over land, whereas our walls of cloud extend well out to sea. The colloquial term here is "Southerly Buster", and we certainly get the weather conditions you ascribe to a derecho, but the Bureau of Meteorology describes the phenomenon we experience as being caused by a cold front (http://media.bom.gov.au/social/blog/18/the-big-bust-southerly-busters-explained/) sweeping up the coast from the south.
Methinks the hard part would then be to isolate those leads from her insides, if necessary, or design the leads such that they burn through on their own in case of a current surge.Optical isolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator) would work, I think. That is, have the antennae outside the protective cage connected to some circuitry to convert the electrical signal into a modulated light-beam that is fed into a fibre-optic passed through the cage, and then convert the light-signal back into electrical inside.
I'll defer to people with greater knowledge of physics on the effect of EMP weapons, and whether it would be possible, or useful, to tune them to specific targets.
Methinks the hard part would then be to isolate those leads from her insides, if necessary, or design the leads such that they burn through on their own in case of a current surge.Optical isolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator) would work, I think. That is, have the antennae outside the protective cage connected to some circuitry to convert the electrical signal into a modulated light-beam that is fed into a fibre-optic passed through the cage, and then convert the light-signal back into electrical inside.
I suppose Creepybot and her associates might have provided a simply-operated EMP equivalent of an IED to a guerrilla force ("Put it over there and press this button when the enemy reaches that spot"), but I don't see them mass-producing artillery pieces.
Have we passed the point where it is now reasonable to say that Faye and Bubbles would make a lovely couple? Claire obviously ships it. Dora seems to have picked up on it too. I can't recall but I think Tai said something as well.
Wrapping folk up like a burrito is lurve! :venonat:Or an excellent prank the play on friends. Its funny watching them go crazy trying get out of the really tight blanket burrito the next morning.
Have we passed the point where it is now reasonable to say that Faye and Bubbles would make a lovely couple? Claire obviously ships it. Dora seems to have picked up on it too. I can't recall but I think Tai said something as well.
:laugh:
It was good to see Jeph add a reference to Canadian Tire money in the strip.
Personally, I don't see how it goes past snuggles (and even then, only with some padding upgrades).
They certainly are adorable. :-D
Wrapping folk up like a burrito is lurve! :venonat:Or an excellent prank the play on friends. Its funny watching them go crazy trying get out of the really tight blanket burrito the next morning.
Have we passed the point where it is now reasonable to say that Faye and Bubbles would make a lovely couple? Claire obviously ships it. Dora seems to have picked up on it too. I can't recall but I think Tai said something as well.
Because sometimes, friendship can mean more to someone than love, that is philia love rather than eros love.
That's the best kind of love and the best expression of it.Because sometimes, friendship can mean more to someone than love, that is philia love rather than eros love.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I married my best friend.
As much as I like Bubbles, I wouldn't want to share a bed with her, it would be like sleeping with a Harley Davidson.Does Bubbles even sleep? I seem to recall Momo not needing to sleep.
A Harley Davidson that could roll around in it's sleep, snore, and hog the covers.
A Harley Davidson that could ... hog the covers.
Daylight - I must wait for the sunrise
I must think of a new life
And I mustn't give in
When the dawn comes
Tonight will be a memory too
And a new day will begin
The opposing squad not only had the appropriate EMP weapon, they knew precisely which tuning it needed to knock out Bubbles. How did they get this doubtless top secret information, which both ended the AI soidier program as well as only temporarily incapacitating Bubbles?So, is that Creepybot Intelligence Agency?
Can you spell C.R.E.E.P.Y.B.O.T? I knew you could!
Note how this little manipulation gets AIs out of human wars, while not hurting any AI physically. Also note that the psychological damage to Bubbles was the thing that made Creepybot break cover; guilt perhaps?
Our memories are not recordings of what we experienced. They are the constantly evolving stories we tell ourselves about what we experienced.The more frequently a memory is recalled, the stronger it becomes. However, should the neurons involved in a memory pathway ever be damaged or destroyed, that memory is also damaged or destroyed.
We can't really discount an asymmetrical force though. Artillery could just be mortars.Possibly, but Bubbles called it "artillery", and she is an ex-soldier. Do soldiers refer to the sort of light tube mortars that insurgents might employ as artillery? I'd have expected her to call it "mortar-fire", if that is what it was.
Hell, have you ever masturbated?
Methinks the hard part would then be to isolate those leads from her insides, if necessary, or design the leads such that they burn through on their own in case of a current surge.Optical isolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator) would work, I think. That is, have the antennae outside the protective cage connected to some circuitry to convert the electrical signal into a modulated light-beam that is fed into a fibre-optic passed through the cage, and then convert the light-signal back into electrical inside.
Hang on though....
How can Bubbles remember the incident... but not remember what her colleagues looked like?
Her memories are files (as has been discussed) and said files were apparently wiped?
So how can Bubbles have a selective memory of what happened without seeing the people involved in that self-same incident?
Or, indeed, memories of them prior to said incident? We can't pretend to know how AIs memories work, but we've been given a brief run down throughout the last few months... and no explanation other than them being data files has been given.
So... How?
How is it that people can remember the sound of a loved one's voice and yet unable to remember details of their face years after they have passed?
How is that we might remember with crystal clarity an embarrassing incident from decades ago, but forget the name of the person we were introduced to last month?
How is it that people can forget some memories after trauma but other obscure ones remain intact?
Memory is a funny and complex thing and though we think them to be the same as files, they aren't. A file can be deleted and later recovered near intact. A memory can be lost and though it's not always possible for it to come back, we are still left with the imprint of that memory, an echo as it were.
Bubbles might not be able to remember the faces of her squad or their time together, but there is still the imprint and echoes of that time.
Memories are not stored locally, they are diffused throughout the brain and are strongly linked to emotions. It is possible to forget the factual content of an experience while retaining the emotional impact it had. Encountering similar events/circumstances can then trigger that emotional reaction without the person knowing the precise source. Memories are weird. My own are either a jumbled, discordant mess or absent all together. A huge chunk of my past is a complete blank due to trauma. Other swaths of memory are completely disjointed, broken free of temporal context.
Uhh well it would be pretty easy for Bubbles to have a sexual relationship with Faye. I am not sure how Faye could reciprocate though...
Yeah but Bubbles memories literally ARE files, as mentioned above, and shown in the strip, cos Bubbles is a computer, not a person.
Stronger, but not necessarily more accurate. It shifts as our perspective of it changes, which it inevitably does as new experiences shape our personality and thought patterns.Our memories are not recordings of what we experienced. They are the constantly evolving stories we tell ourselves about what we experienced.The more frequently a memory is recalled, the stronger it becomes.
Beat me to it.
For what it's worth, while I'm confident Joe wasn't trying to be *that* way (no really, I get you aren't, mate), I'd argue, as someone from one of the minority groups in her culture that have a history of de-person-alization and violence, it is a little more important than 'nitpicky', oddtail.
Stronger, but not necessarily more accurate. It shifts as our perspective of it changes, which it inevitably does as new experiences shape our personality and thought patterns.Our memories are not recordings of what we experienced. They are the constantly evolving stories we tell ourselves about what we experienced.The more frequently a memory is recalled, the stronger it becomes.
Yeah but Bubbles memories literally ARE files, as mentioned above, and shown in the strip, cos Bubbles is a computer, not a person.
OK, this is nitpicky, I admit, but Bubbles is a computer, not a *human*. It's established very well in QCverse that AI are actually conscious, intelligent and have individuality. They also have rights as citizens.
So Bubbles is very much a person, unambiguously so (in the legal, moral, and mental sense). A non-human person, but still.
Stronger, but not necessarily more accurate. It shifts as our perspective of it changes, which it inevitably does as new experiences shape our personality and thought patterns.Our memories are not recordings of what we experienced. They are the constantly evolving stories we tell ourselves about what we experienced.The more frequently a memory is recalled, the stronger it becomes.
Methinks there might also be a difference between normal-, and traumatic memory formation, and 'memory-evolution' - A while back, I've read about a new approach to trauma-treatment where people are given medication that inhibits formation of new memories (but leaves already formed memories unaffected), and are then encouraged to recall a traumatic one. IIRC, the results were very encouraging, where a widely varying group - people with PTSD, patients with BPS that had traumatic memories, etc. - reported significant improvements (flashbacks become rarer, or less distressing) in a mere handful of sessions.
One thing to take away from that might be that the difference between traumatic and normal memories is that the latter evolve over time as you laid out above - i.e. that over time, they become more and more a record of the narrative of events that we've created for ourselves to make sense of events in the world and our lives, rather than a record of the actual events - while traumatic memories, because they are 'recorded' differently, with a higher information density, do not.
In that picture, the traumatic memories would be like 'rocks' in the stream of our narrative -> while the narratives of our 'normal' memories adapt to conform with the evolution of our personalities, to make sense to the person we are now, rather the person we were back then, the traumatic memories resist that process, and part of the pain of recalling them is that during the recalling, we (partially) revert again to a person we no longer are?
Does that make some sense? (I admit that that I have no traumatic memories (that I know of), and am wildly speculating here)
Yeah but Bubbles memories literally ARE files, as mentioned above, and shown in the strip, cos Bubbles is a computer, not a person.
OK, this is nitpicky, I admit, but Bubbles is a computer, not a *human*. It's established very well in QCverse that AI are actually conscious, intelligent and have individuality. They also have rights as citizens.
So Bubbles is very much a person, unambiguously so (in the legal, moral, and mental sense). A non-human person, but still.
Oh I don't disagree with a single word of that!
Luckily it doesn't impinge on my argument! :)
"Person" or not, their memories are handled as a machine's.
(I've not seen anything like a debate over AI personhood within the comic yet)
Well ...
Well. In QC universe it doesnt seem that AI are based on neural networks, so only what we can apply here are general concepts.
"The AI mind, as those of organic beings, is self-constructing and self-organizing. It is an emergent system. Just as we do not fully comprehend the organic mind, the AI mind remains mysterious. However, we do have a better understanding of the building blocks. Quantum spin states in foamed nanocrystal lattices can be manipulated, and with a greater degree than possible with organic matter"
One of them is that it is subsymbolic and distributed, which would point to memories more akin to human ones.
‘Symbolic’ and ‘subsymbolic’ characterize two different approaches to modeling cognition. Traditionally, as I understand it, this dichotomy pitted anything easily understandable as a symbol manipulation system (logic and symbol string rewrite systems and associated abstract computing machines that classify or generate strings of symbols - e.g. Turing machines, finite state machines) as fundamentally different in some meaningful way from basically just neural networks (the biological ones and the biologically-inspired but simplistic artificial models of them) and things like them. Crucially, representations and algorithms in the second approach don’t feature things you can point to that easily look like crisp, discrete, categorical symbols.
This divide coincided with other divides in AI and related philosophy; some of the associated buzzwords (for further exploration of your own) are "neats and scruffies", "embodied cognition" and "the symbol grounding problem" (see "the Chinese room argument" against the possibility of "strong AI"). The divide has become less consequential as time has gone on: for starters, the two flavors of cognition are not really at odds with each other - IIRC, there's a proof of the equivalence of some form of neural network and Turing machines (meaning that for any Turing machine, there exists at least one corresponding neural network that behaves the same and vice versa), and people have (probably always?) implemented subsymbolic models on/in very symbol system-y hardware and programming languages.
("What's the difference between symbolic and subsymbolic processing?" (https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-symbolic-and-subsymbolic-processing))
Hovewer, we know that AI here have their OS, files and whatnot. So i envision that there are two complementary memory systems. One being ordinary files and other being memories in AI itself. Files probably wouldnt be real memories but something more akin to notebook in your mind, but that would be just speculation.
Even an optical link goes through a (small) flaw in the shielding, though.
You cannot modify individual memories
Indeed.Quote from: BubblesYou cannot modify individual memories
Her memory is known to work differently from one of today's file systems, then.
Quote from: BubblesYou cannot modify individual memories
Her memory is known to work differently from one of today's file systems, then.
What makes you think that QC-verse AI don't incorporate building blocks that function like neural networks? ...
Could you elaborate on the meaning of those two terms? And how they relate to memory? From what I've found, the term 'subsymbolic' relates to processing, not necessary storage (though the latter is a part of the former, to some degree):
..i can memorize notebook..
Edit: as to why would AI use such file based memory...look at Pintsize :D
"Wait a minute, do I live here?!"
Legally, in the absence of her name on the lease, I don't think Claire is considered to be living in the apartment unless she gets mail delivered there. She can have all her stuff there, spend all her non-working hours there, and still not be an actual occupant.
Legally, in the absence of her name on the lease, I don't think Claire is considered to be living in the apartment unless she gets mail delivered there. She can have all her stuff there, spend all her non-working hours there, and still not be an actual occupant.
Hmmm....a budding Claire/Bubbles friendship. When Claire tells her that she's transitioned genders, will that make Bubbles realize, "I don't HAVE to occupy this combat 'droid chassis."?
This takes me back to one of the early episodes of Big Bang theory where Sheldon informs Leonard that his girlfriend has moved in without him noticing.
Also on the mid week comics I would've thought that the weight of Bubble's armour would have collapsed the bed.
Yes, even if the individual can regenerate neurons. Deadpool should have worse amnesia than Logan.
Yes, even if the individual can regenerate neurons. Deadpool should have worse amnesia than Logan.
He did, for the longest time. Granted, that was actually because he was being given a ton of amnesia drugs, going by a semi-recent retcon, but it's been a recurring plot point in the comics that he can't remember most of his past.
Not at all related to the comic but goddamnit my nerdery will not go unheard.
Alternately, maybe he's moving towards a weird 'reverse move' plot where they move to Claire's old house and her mother moves to the apartment because she doesn't want such a huge space more-or-less to herself anymore.
Hmmm....a budding Claire/Bubbles friendship. When Claire tells her that she's transitioned genders, will that make Bubbles realize, "I don't HAVE to occupy this combat 'droid chassis."?
Yeah but Bubbles memories literally ARE files, as mentioned above, and shown in the strip, cos Bubbles is a computer, not a person.
OK, this is nitpicky, I admit, but Bubbles is a computer, not a *human*. It's established very well in QCverse that AI are actually conscious, intelligent and have individuality. They also have rights as citizens.
So Bubbles is very much a person, unambiguously so (in the legal, moral, and mental sense). A non-human person, but still.
Oh I don't disagree with a single word of that!
Luckily it doesn't impinge on my argument! :)
"Person" or not, their memories are handled as a machine's.
Uhmmmh - I don't recall evidence for that. In fact, Bubbles explanation of the functioning of QC-verses AI's suggests that AI memory recording and storage is significantly more complex. Furthermore, I recall a discussion from Jaron Lanier's "You are not a Gadget" where he explains that the entire paradigm of files (and nested folders) that contemporary operating systems utilize was a design-choice that first became popular, and later became 'locked in', as he calls it - but it's in no way necessary to organize even our conventional Turing machine's OS' in that way - so why should it be necessary for something that is on an entirely different level of complexity & capabilities? (*)
For example: Recall those stories about a Savant who is taken on a helicopter trip over the roofs of Paris, and who later on paints stunningly detailed pictures of precisely that aerial view of Paris? No 'normal' human being can do that - not because our brains and senses cannot (they can), but because our memory recording filters for important information (But 'important' is a choice - a choice that can become ... a narrative)
We recall: "Paris from above", "Roofs", "Shingles", "Up in the air", "Loud" (Choppers are loud!), "Anxious" (Fear of falling) -> The things that our brain deemed important (also important for our survival) at the time.
He recalls the position of every fucking window he's seen (no kidding, they actually compared the drawings to photograpy taken during the trip) ... But this guy, for all his amazing abilities, can't tie his own shoelaces (like literally, not metaphorically) - It's no question which mode of memory encoding grants an evolutionary advantage.
(*) With 'lock in' Lanier means design choices that become central to the entire functioning of parts of human activity's infrastructure not necessarily because they are good choices, but because so many subsequent applications crucially rely on them for their operation. Examples include the diameter of tubes in London's Underground that allow only a certain class of tracks, or Dolby's MIDI-protocol - oftentimes, those choices were 'proof of concept'-designs that impose significant limitations later on. Lanier theorizes that this is compounded in computer science because of conventional program's 'brittleness' - a single misplaced digit, or character can make the entire operation impossible, or - if the coder has not implemented good error-handling - even shut down the entire system, including other user's access to services.
Why does 'Complexity' alter the fact that AI's are still machines?
And that machines (as we know them, as we have no evidence to the contrary) do not 'forget' data unless programmed (or made) to do so.
I completely understand and agree with arguing for the *personhood* of the AIs in this universe.
But that does not alter the fact that they are not biological entities, and as such cannot have the same arguments put forward to compare them against the way we 'keen, neat humans' work.
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence... That, of course, is leaving aside degradation of storage systems etc... "The centre cannot hold..." and all that.
But unless Bubbles is VERY old, surely the AI version of dementia hasn't kicked in?
Hmmm....a budding Claire/Bubbles friendship. When Claire tells her that she's transitioned genders, will that make Bubbles realize, "I don't HAVE to occupy this combat 'droid chassis."?
btw: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3337
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence...
Pair of couples sharing a 2-bedroom apartment: hardly unusual for 20-somethings. The fact that Bubbles won't (for the most part) need the bathroom helps things a bit, and assuming the electricity account is in the name of the tenants, then mole-people landlord (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3153) shouldn't care that much.
Ah, wasn't aware. Thank you for the correction.Yes, even if the individual can regenerate neurons. Deadpool should have worse amnesia than Logan.
He did, for the longest time. Granted, that was actually because he was being given a ton of amnesia drugs, going by a semi-recent retcon, but it's been a recurring plot point in the comics that he can't remember most of his past.
Not at all related to the comic but goddamnit my nerdery will not go unheard.
My wife determined the crucial change in our relationship as being when she let me leave my toothbrush in her bathroom.
Why does 'Complexity' alter the fact that AI's are still machines?
And that machines (as we know them, as we have no evidence to the contrary) do not 'forget' data unless programmed (or made) to do so.
I completely understand and agree with arguing for the *personhood* of the AIs in this universe.
But that does not alter the fact that they are not biological entities, and as such cannot have the same arguments put forward to compare them against the way we 'keen, neat humans' work.
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence... That, of course, is leaving aside degradation of storage systems etc... "The centre cannot hold..." and all that.
But unless Bubbles is VERY old, surely the AI version of dementia hasn't kicked in?
I think that the key phrase in your post is "(machines) as we know them."
AIs in QC are not machines as we know them. What's more, they are an emergent species, and thus may well share some characteristics with biological species. But as we have no real evidence, as you say. We are left to speculate.
I am not here to categorically state that you are wrong. Merely to ask why you seem so confident in your opinion that AIs have perfect recall.
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence...
No, what we have is evidence that their memory can be erased by outside influence, not that that's the only way data might vanish from their memory. "Absence of evidence != evidence of absence"
So I know my limits enough to know better than to get too deeply between Case and Joe et al on that discussion, but I did want to point out that there's all sorts of random/semi-random errors that corrupt data a lot faster than just digital memory drift.
I mean if my poor computers are any indication, that is... ;)
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence...
No, what we have is evidence that their memory can be erased by outside influence, not that that's the only way data might vanish from their memory. "Absence of evidence != evidence of absence"
Um.. That's what I said in the first line above...
"The only evidence we have to date."
And that's all we can state for certain... everything else is hypothetical.
To use your example above, the only evidence we have to date (Emily in Bubbles mind) is that AI's are like those savants you discuss above. They have total recall, unless acted upon by an outside influence...
No, what we have is evidence that their memory can be erased by outside influence, not that that's the only way data might vanish from their memory. "Absence of evidence != evidence of absence"
Um.. That's what I said in the first line above...
"The only evidence we have to date."
And that's all we can state for certain... everything else is hypothetical.
I think you misunderstood Case's post, read it again.
To put what he said in a different way, there is no evidence that they have "total recall."
Nothing points to a *fact* that these machines do not have total recall.
Computer based Machines have Total Recall of anything they have been asked, forced, chosen to remember...
Those memories (data) will remain unless acted upon by an outside influence
If it's been mentioned in the strip.. I've forgotten it...
...'cos I'm not a machine... :wink:
Very interesting series of points made in this discussion but one phrase made the hairs on my neck stand on end and a chill run down my spine.
I was getting flashbacks from philosophy 101 / Modern Inductive Logic 310. Two courses where the professors would have annihilated each other if they ever met, sort of like a loopy electron and a no-nonsense positron.Nothing points to a *fact* that these machines do not have total recall.
The absence of evidence that something does not exist is not evidence that it exists.
Anyway, what Bubbles said sounds like an after-action report or a deployment debriefing. It would for damn sure be a matter of record before she left the military forces, assuming she remembered it at the time. The AARs are always, always, always a high priority after any contact with the enemy.
Anyway, it sounds to me like somebody read back to her her own testimony from the standard debriefing. Even if she doesn't actually remember the events themselves, she'd know what happened.
If it's been mentioned in the strip.. I've forgotten it...
...'cos I'm not a machine... :wink:
Interesting thing is, although you've forgotten it, it's almost certainly still there in your mind. Someone gives your memory a little prod, posts a link, and you'll say, "Oh yes, now I remember!"
When we forget stuff, it doesn't, generally speaking, disappear from our minds, our internal library of experiences. We just lose the index card.
Seeing as AIs are very like we humans in so many respects, it is highly likely that they are like us in this respect also. Bubbles' encrypted memories - had they truly been encrypted, though it turned out they weren't - but had they been, they would have been a very good analogy for repressed trauma, which I'm sure was Jeph's goal. I also see it as very likely that AIs "forgetting" an experience would be very like us - it's still there in their AI mind, but they can't "recall" it (i.e. bring it back into their conscious mind). As pwhodges suggested, they experience "failure to find memories."
I honestly cannot comprehend how certain you are in your belief based on a slim bit of evidence that AI memory must resemble that of a computer (which I doubt) - but then, when presented with much stronger evidence (Bubbles has forgotten the faces of her teammates), you would rather act aggrieved and assume Jeph got it wrong than review your belief. How extraordinary.
In theory but I occasionally have to work with computerized control systems as well as ye old relay logic control interlocks.The absence of evidence that something does not exist is not evidence that it exists.
You're absolutely right.
But this is a made-up universe, upon which we can only transfer our 'own world' realities, until we are presented with something that actively stands contrary to what we know.
What we know is, computers store data which they are fed, and unless pre-programmed to do so, will not lose that data...
And logically, what sense does it make to program a Combat AI to have the capacity to *forget* what it's squad mates look like?
(Mind you, that might deny the old oxymoron... "Military Intelligence" :) )
There is no evidence that memory loss *does* happen, so that's all we can go with.
In theory...
but I occasionally have to work with computerized control systems as well as ye old relay logic control interlocks.
Guess what, they do loose data. Sometimes it is just a bad memory cell on a control module or media degradation or just a stray cosmic ray flipping a bit or two [Murphy at play].
So there is that.
Then there is assumptions in general - you know what that word implies right?
A good analyst looks at the evidence first before building a model, not the other way around.
And again, I reiterate, that the absence of evidence that something does not exist is not evidence that it exists.
So with respect to the memory loss and the volatility of memories in an AI we have at the moment exactly ONE data point.
And logically, what sense does it make to program a Combat AI to have the capacity to *forget* what it's squad mates look like?
And logically, what sense does it make to program a Combat AI to have the capacity to *forget* what it's squad mates look like?AI in the QCverse are not programmed to do anything. They are emergent, same as biological intelligences.
I DEEPLY hope it comes out that those very memories have been deliberately purged by someone...
I DEEPLY hope it comes out that those very memories have been deliberately purged by someone... otherwise it is simply not believable. The suggestion that ANY person, AI or otherwise, would so easily forget the faces of their colleagues... ESPECIALLY those they were in combat with... flies in the face of 'real-life' experience.
I shan't go into too much personal detail here, but I had a great deal of experience when I was younger, discussing 'Living History' matters with WWII veterans. All of them at some point said the same thing. They never forgot those experiences, and can recall their 'lads' as if it were yesterday. My grandfather was one of those, and he was shot in the face (and survived, thankfully).
Hey Joe, I am sorry about the snark. I can act like a bit of a dickhead sometimes.
I didn't mean to take a swipe at your intelligence though. Honestly, I was actually shooting for 'stubborn bastard.' ... I hope you're laughing now, or I'm really in the shit.
On a more serious note...I DEEPLY hope it comes out that those very memories have been deliberately purged by someone... otherwise it is simply not believable. The suggestion that ANY person, AI or otherwise, would so easily forget the faces of their colleagues... ESPECIALLY those they were in combat with... flies in the face of 'real-life' experience.
I shan't go into too much personal detail here, but I had a great deal of experience when I was younger, discussing 'Living History' matters with WWII veterans. All of them at some point said the same thing. They never forgot those experiences, and can recall their 'lads' as if it were yesterday. My grandfather was one of those, and he was shot in the face (and survived, thankfully).
Good point. On the general topic of total recall we may still differ (though I'm not sure one way or the other, just leaning), but here I believe you are 100% correct.
I suspect, though, that the answer is that this was collateral damage to the purging that CW carried out.
Here's another wrinkle. It didn't happen to any of the WW2 veterans mentioned up-thread, but humans are capable of traumatic amnesia. QC AIs work astonishingly like carbon-based intelligences.
That's not what happened to Bubbles but it's a road to understanding how a computer might forget something.
Here's another line of reasoning, related. QC AIs have the same emotions we do including painful ones. They don't all go tragically insane. If they combined perfect recall with having emotion attached to memories then they would go tragically insane.
I can't imagine a life form with the psychological strength to endure perfect recollection of every painful thing that ever happened to them.
I suppose that taking 'human' experience, which I agree 'can' sit on both sides of the memory scale, and translating that to AI experience (which is fictional and differs for each iteration of universes they inhabit - but let's stick with this one.. :) ) then I can certainly concede that IF AI brains are a perfect mirror of human brains (and putting aside my belief that they can't/shouldn't be :-P ) then such traumatic amnesia is possible... for specific instances... but surely not seen as the 'norm'?
But... for such amnesia to wipe out ALL memories, of every day spent with said colleagues... well, I guess that's where the stubborn bugger side of me rises.
But... for such amnesia to wipe out ALL memories, of every day spent with said colleagues... well, I guess that's where the stubborn bugger side of me rises.
:-)
(ETA again... Why isn't Bubbles in therapy!?!?!?)
Technically it was still accidental. Corpsewitch botched the process and deleted the memories instead of merely partitioning them.I suppose that taking 'human' experience, which I agree 'can' sit on both sides of the memory scale, and translating that to AI experience (which is fictional and differs for each iteration of universes they inhabit - but let's stick with this one.. :) ) then I can certainly concede that IF AI brains are a perfect mirror of human brains (and putting aside my belief that they can't/shouldn't be :-P ) then such traumatic amnesia is possible... for specific instances... but surely not seen as the 'norm'?
But... for such amnesia to wipe out ALL memories, of every day spent with said colleagues... well, I guess that's where the stubborn bugger side of me rises.
Wasn't that the whole point of what Corpse Witch's "operation" was supposed to do to Bubbles's memories? IIRC correctly, Bubbles said that after the memories were edited she still had an overall "outline" of what happened, but all the details that were driving her crazy were gone. So now that the memories turn out to be permanently gone -- well, nothing has changed for Bubbles: she still has the "big picture", but none of the fine details. As I understand it, Bubbles didn't lose any memories accidentally, it was all because of what Corpse Witch did.
I suppose that taking 'human' experience, which I agree 'can' sit on both sides of the memory scale, and translating that to AI experience (which is fictional and differs for each iteration of universes they inhabit - but let's stick with this one.. :) ) then I can certainly concede that IF AI brains are a perfect mirror of human brains (and putting aside my belief that they can't/shouldn't be :-P ) then such traumatic amnesia is possible... for specific instances... but surely not seen as the 'norm'?
But... for such amnesia to wipe out ALL memories, of every day spent with said colleagues... well, I guess that's where the stubborn bugger side of me rises.
Wasn't that the whole point of what Corpse Witch's "operation" was supposed to do to Bubbles's memories? IIRC correctly, Bubbles said that after the memories were edited she still had an overall "outline" of what happened, but all the details that were driving her crazy were gone. So now that the memories turn out to be permanently gone -- well, nothing has changed for Bubbles: she still has the "big picture", but none of the fine details. As I understand it, Bubbles didn't lose any memories accidentally, it was all because of what Corpse Witch did.
Well, that's what she said when faced with an angry Bubbles. It's possible that CW was never capable of portioning the memories, or for some reason deliberately deleted instead of locking them away. Then she told Bubbles they were locked away and could only be recovered if Bubbles served her.
There was a hint that Bubbles tried therapy and gave up. It's where she yelled at Faye for trying to help and said "Better minds than yours have tried". Maybe she's better prepared to make a go of it now.
As far as the scope of traumatic amnesia goes, it's not unheard of for a PTSD therapist to say something like "some of my clients have told me they don't remember anything from their childhood".
And it turns out I'm using the phrase "traumatic amnesia" wrong. I'm not sure what to Google for to find the phenomenon I'm describing.
In generalized amnesia, patients forget their identify and life history—eg, who they are, where they went, to whom they spoke, and what they did, said, thought, experienced, and felt. Some patients can no longer access well-learned skills and lose formerly known information about the world. Generalized dissociative amnesia is rare; it is more common among combat veterans, people who have been sexually assaulted, and people experiencing extreme stress or conflict. Onset is usually sudden.
That feels eerily familiar. I have a substantial amount of memory loss myself. Food for thought.
Maybe what you're thinking of is dissociative amnesia (http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/dissociative-disorders/dissociative-amnesia).
Of specific relevance to this discussion is the following extract (emphasis in italics is mine):QuoteIn generalized amnesia, patients forget their identify and life history—eg, who they are, where they went, to whom they spoke, and what they did, said, thought, experienced, and felt. Some patients can no longer access well-learned skills and lose formerly known information about the world. Generalized dissociative amnesia is rare; it is more common among combat veterans, people who have been sexually assaulted, and people experiencing extreme stress or conflict. Onset is usually sudden.
That makes total compelling sense. It would be SOP to make a backup before working on a computer.
Arrogant Architeuthis questioned Corpse Witch about the existence of backups and it would have been clearly in CW's self-interest to hand them over if they'd existed.
So, either Corpse Witch lied under torture or she failed to follow normal maintenance procedures. Either possibility is odd.