Nobody had made a thread yet, so here we go.
And most of my conversations end up that way, too.
Hm, yes. This is EXACTLY how my brain works.I find it comforting that I am not alone.
My typical train of thought:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg)
Hm, yes. This is EXACTLY how my brain works.
I once went from hearing (during a college football broadcast) "Ole Miss's defense" to wondering what Donald Rumsfeld"s wife's first name is. (it's Joyce.)So that's what happens after the end of Dumbing of Age. :psyduck:
Also: Movie star ---> degenerate matter (snicker)
If anyone out there doesn't experience this, feel free to post. :lol:I don't. I like my back 'n' forth to be more coherent than on this strip. Poor Brun, it must be frustrating.
And trying to explain the train of thought doesn't really help either.Especially when you somehow go from talking about how the Nazi party got into power to talking about fossil evidence for dinosaur locamotion.
Is there any interaction that Claire won't ship? :lol:
I thought panel 2 Brün was trying to concoct a joke.
New comic--- wonder if Brün and Claire will compete at attempted humour?
Is there any interaction that Claire won't ship? :lol:
Like Joyce Brown in Dumbing of Age, Claire can ship many things and all things; her shipping is quantum!
Somebody needs to push Clinton's Reset/Restart Button
Well, maybe.
That.
Was.
NOT.
Flirting!
Comics up and Clinton's a deer in the headlights.
Why do I get the feeling that this storyline is going to end in tears for someone? Secondhand info is never good! Always get your information directly from the source!
Judgemental and a gossip - clearly, Renee's talents are manifold and endearing!
I really hope Claire does not take Renee's word on this bullshit. Her initial reaction is kind of disappointing, if I'm honest.Keep in mind that Marten was having a panicked reaction to the mere mention of that incident, and Claire picked up on it. That's something that she might want to know about.
Why do I get the feeling that this storyline is going to end in tears for someone? Secondhand info is never good! Always get your information directly from the source!
Also, comic's up
Being super uncool here Claire.
EDIT: There are a ton of reasons Marten could feel super awkward about this which are totally benign, but still very uncomfortable. Listening to second-hand gossip instead of asking about this first in private seems like such a super dodgy move to me.
I get that bad decisions, made in-character, is good writing, I understand that well, but goddamn am I getting bitter, especially after the $100 exchange and its lack of resolution in any way.
Let me take a guess how this will go: Oh no poor, Renee! She was really trying her best, but we must be understanding!
And that idiot Marten! Why are all men such losers?All men?
Let me take a guess how this will go: Oh no poor, Renee! She was really trying her best, but we must be understanding!Haha, I was just about to type a post saying "This comic was brought to you by the phrase "FOR FUCK'S SAKE, RENÉE""
And that idiot Marten! Why are all men such loosers?
QuoteAnd that idiot Marten! Why are all men such losers?All men?
Sven seems to be more successful, but I'm not sure he's setting a shining example of how men should be either.
I get that bad decisions, made in-character, is good writing, I understand that well, but goddamn am I getting bitter, especially after the $100 exchange and its lack of resolution in any way.Sorry, which exchange was that? I'm completely spacing here.
I get that bad decisions, made in-character, is good writing, I understand that well, but goddamn am I getting bitter, especially after the $100 exchange and its lack of resolution in any way.Sorry, which exchange was that? I'm completely spacing here.
I am curious to see what we'll learn about Padma's side of the story
... You're right. Shit. :laugh:I am curious to see what we'll learn about Padma's side of the story
From what Renee said in panel 6, I'm not entirely sure that she knows Padma's side of the story herself... or is interested in relaying it accurately!
As I said in my first post above, this is basically a Claire character arc. We'll learn a lot about her by how she reacts to Renee's more-or-less malicious gossip.
Go on Claire!
Act all unreasonable about something that doesn't actually concern you in the slightest!
Go on Renee!
Dish that dirt!
Go on Marten... Dump her!
(Is my 'I just don't like Claire's character' showing too much?) :angel:
Yeah, tonight's going to be awkward for Martin.
I always wondered about that. Is the fact everyone apparently calls him "Martin" some sort of in-joke?
Then pendants like Case decide to make a huge thing of it because... Well, I've given up getting what that's supposed to achieve by this point.
Adding this bit of clueless malice to Renee's previous warnings about Clinton when Brun first came to stay with her, I think Renee is pretty much suspicious of all men, and happy to assume the worst of them. In real life I would avoid her and any of her friends.I am curious to see what we'll learn about Padma's side of the story
From what Renee said in panel 6, I'm not entirely sure that she knows Padma's side of the story herself... or is interested in relaying it accurately!
Adding this bit of clueless malice to Renee's previous warnings about Clinton when Brun first came to stay with her, I think Renee is pretty much suspicious of all men, and happy to assume the worst of them. In real life I would avoid her and any of her friends.
Marten tried to contact her. She ignored him and flaked out. He responded in kind. But he's the idiot here? Bit odd to blame your own insecurities and hangups on a dude like that.
What a lot of snowflakes you all are. In Claire's position, I would do just what she did; and in Marten's I would expect her to.
Well, I've given up getting what that's supposed to achieve by this point.
Were Padma and Marten dating, or were they just sleeping together? I can't recall.Their relationship was pretty casual, but they spent one-on-one time outside the bedroom (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2073).
Were Padma and Marten dating, or were they just sleeping together? I can't recall.
Flang, if you will.Were Padma and Marten dating, or were they just sleeping together? I can't recall.
It was a fling. It was flung.
What a lot of snowflakes you all are. In Claire's position, I would do just what she did; and in Marten's I would expect her to.
It was a little odd that 2101 was written to basically lay the blame at Marten's feet.It was written that way because Faye was doing most of the talking, telling Marten to not be so passive. And he was passive. Faye told him he don' wrong, and he accepted that. Faye laid the blame at Marten's feet.
Jeph's own titling of and comments on 2099 and 2100 suggest that that's not just the characters playing their roles, Faye was calling them as Jeph saw them.It was a little odd that 2101 was written to basically lay the blame at Marten's feet.It was written that way because Faye was doing most of the talking, telling Marten to not be so passive. And he was passive. Faye told him he don' wrong, and he accepted that. Faye laid the blame at Marten's feet.
I actually like Claire as a character, even if she is a creator's pet and her relationship with Martin is over-idealized in some respects. Having said that, a lot of my continued sympathy and respect is going to ride on what she does next.
The fact that she gave Marten the stink-eye and the "R e A l L y?" treatment after a SINGLE stranger started flapping her gums galls me to no end. It's bad enough to see Martin on the receiving end of "the man is always wrong in a relationship" trope with Padma, when in fact Padma was being just as flaky (and no fault to her--it was crappy timing that got both of them). But to see Claire of all people start playing the "jealous girlfriend" trope just to see him squirm?
No. Just no.
Marten has been completely selfless, loving, and supportive to her in a relationship that most men would find difficult to even conceive of having. He deserves FAR better from her than this rom-com BS.
Even if Claire ends up telling Renee to f*** off, if she doesn't realize what she's done wrong in today's strip and make things right with Marten, my sympathy for her as a character is going to take a massive dive. Maybe not a terminal dive, but a pretty severe hit nevertheless.
I actually like Claire as a character, even if she is a creator's pet and her relationship with Martin is over-idealized in some respects. Having said that, a lot of my continued sympathy and respect is going to ride on what she does next.
The fact that she gave Marten the stink-eye and the "R e A l L y?" treatment after a SINGLE stranger started flapping her gums galls me to no end. It's bad enough to see Martin on the receiving end of "the man is always wrong in a relationship" trope with Padma, when in fact Padma was being just as flaky (and no fault to her--it was crappy timing that got both of them). But to see Claire of all people start playing the "jealous girlfriend" trope just to see him squirm?
No. Just no.
Marten has been completely selfless, loving, and supportive to her in a relationship that most men would find difficult to even conceive of having. He deserves FAR better from her than this rom-com BS.
Even if Claire ends up telling Renee to f*** off, if she doesn't realize what she's done wrong in today's strip and make things right with Marten, my sympathy for her as a character is going to take a massive dive. Maybe not a terminal dive, but a pretty severe hit nevertheless.
Bolded part irks me. You don't get cookies for treating a trans woman the same way you would a cis woman. Marten is not being some special ultra-tolerant angel by dating Claire. He's just NOT being a bigoted jerk. If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
Bolded part irks me. You don't get cookies for treating a trans woman the same way you would a cis woman. Marten is not being some special ultra-tolerant angel by dating Claire. He's just NOT being a bigoted jerk. If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
I'm a bit confused... Padma and Marten had a weird ending? I thought it was just "Oh, I gotta go west, this was fun!".Oh the weirdest. She was like "maybe I'll hang around a few weeks longer" and he was like "Yippee!" and then she was like "oh man I'm catching feels hardcore and now I'm leaving what a bummer" and he was like "lol it couldn't have happened at any other time i used to be a dick" and then she was like "I'm
Any chance Claire was putting on an act to tease Marten? She should have resisted the temptation, agreed, but I can see her side too.I definitely read teasing as being at least part of the motivation here, but I think she was also very interested in finding out what she could about this chapter of his life that he evidently hasn't been very open about with her. That sort of teasing seems normal to me, and the curiousity seems healthy.
She could also be insecure. We've seen her jump to conclusions about relationships before.
(Hey, I can get to be a pedant by distinguishing between a pedant and a pendant).
Claire was speeding down Asshole Highway, but suddenly banked off at the Insecurity exit instead. And apparently she also spoke to Dora? I'm glad to see a resolution to this, but I definitely feel like we jumped a column.
If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
If you treat trans people differently than you do cispeople based solely on them being trans, then yes you are transphobic. "But I have friends who are trans" is not a get out of jail free card.If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
Transphobia begins and ends with hatred or bigotry of transgendered people. You cannot call someone transphobic because they choose not to date trans people. Applying the same logic, every straight person is homophobic for refusing to date a gay member of their sex lmao.
I didn't know my support of my trans friends was voided because I wouldn't sleep with them.
Any chance Claire was putting on an act to tease Marten? She should have resisted the temptation, agreed, but I can see her side too.
She could also be insecure. We've seen her jump to conclusions about relationships before.
(Hey, I can get to be a pedant by distinguishing between a pedant and a pendant).
Teasing is fine, but fishing for information in a way that will make your boyfriend feel uncomfortable can cause friction. At least Claire wasn't doing this behind Marten's back and she has insecurities as an excuse.
So it's not okay for someone to have sexual preferences, or to be warmly attached to a group without wanting to sleep with them?This implies that trans people are of a different group than other people of their gender. If you are attracted to a particular gender and reject whole cloth the very idea of dating someone in that gender group solely on the fact that they are trans, even though you find the physically and emotionally attractive, then yea, I'd say that strongly suggests a level of bigotry. Not all bigotry is blatant hatred.
Someone seems to have a penchant ...
If you treat trans people differently than you do cispeople based solely on them being trans, then yes you are transphobic. "But I have friends who are trans" is not a get out of jail free card.If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
Transphobia begins and ends with hatred or bigotry of transgendered people. You cannot call someone transphobic because they choose not to date trans people. Applying the same logic, every straight person is homophobic for refusing to date a gay member of their sex lmao.
I didn't know my support of my trans friends was voided because I wouldn't sleep with them.
Someone seems to have a penchant ...
Case, you are such a peasant.
I stand by my opinion that Marten is the more insecure one here. He needs to learn to simply reassure instead of freaking out like this. I mean, I can understand why he does given his past. But the more he freaks out, the less liable Claire will be to express any minor insecurities that do come up (which are only human, lets face it). That is how minor insecurities can grow into major ones.Someone seems to have a penchant ...
Case, you are such a peasant.
If you treat trans people differently than you do cispeople based solely on them being trans, then yes you are transphobic. "But I have friends who are trans" is not a get out of jail free card.If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
Transphobia begins and ends with hatred or bigotry of transgendered people. You cannot call someone transphobic because they choose not to date trans people. Applying the same logic, every straight person is homophobic for refusing to date a gay member of their sex lmao.
I didn't know my support of my trans friends was voided because I wouldn't sleep with them.
I deleted my original post as it was rather combative and not very helpful. The thing is, in this context, gender identity is irrelevant. Because it's not about the person being trans, lesbian, gay, redhead, tall, large or anything like that - it's about who *you* are attracted to. Your personal preferences - possibly the most personal and intimate preferences you can have. As such, its a core part of who you are. Having someone dictate who you can and can't be attracted to (with obvious exceptions) can be just as oppressive as having someone dictate your gender identity.
Someone seems to have a penchant ...Case, you are such a peasant.Well, that's not very pleasant
Dammit.. Ninja'd !
...like a pheasant...
According to Claire, Dora said that Marten isn't good at dealing with insecurity. Now, there are several ways to read that, and Marten himself doesn't seem to think much of it, even being able to jokingly poke at Claire for it in the last panel - and nobody in here has mentioned it, either (until dawolf just now), so maybe it's really just me, but ... isn't that kind of a really unfair depiction of how it went down between Dora and Marten? I feel like that phrasing suggests on some level that it was Marten's failing that he wasn't accepting enough of Dora's insecurities, when it was my impression that everyone in the comic, even Dora herself, seemed to agree that her behaviour had been unfair. Heck, she was the one who chose to end it, based on that. I know relationships and their failings are often too complex to entirely lay the blame at any one person's feet, but I think what struck me was that I believe this is the first time I've seen Marten criticised for his handling of the situation. Sure, he was less graceful in certain moments than in others, but overall I think he's been pretty good at alleviating insecurities in his partners - both Dora and now Claire. I don't know, it just feels kind of like a slap in the face to say Marten is bad at handling insecurity - especially for Dora, of all people.
But yeah, I might just be reading way too much into it in the worst possible way. We don't even know specifically what Dora told Claire versus what Claire took from it versus how she expresses it to Marten here. Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?
Warning - while you were typing a new novel has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Argh. :wink:
Someone seems to have a penchant ...Case, you are such a peasant.Well, that's not very pleasant
Dammit.. Ninja'd !
...like a pheasant...
Oh that's just cold, turkey ...
Don't mind Case, he's just feeling a little perky.
Welcome, new person!
If Dora did express that opinion... my immediate reaction is to wonder whether this opinion was formed, not on her own, but during discussion with her therapist.
There are two sides to every relationship difficulty, and yes, Dora was very insecure, but it's not an unfair observation to make, IMO, that Marten did not (and does not) handle insecurity well. Considering how well balanced Marten normally is, this is one of the very few scenarios that Marten fails to handle with equanimity (the other one that comes to mind being his mother expressing her sexuality).
Considering Marten's sure handling of his and Claire's relationship in all other respects, his loss of balance here is notable.
Indeed, that's not just Marten. 8-)
Go on Marten... Dump her!
Go on Marten... Dump her!
I think she moved in with Marten too soon.
Go on Marten... Dump her!
I think she moved in with Marten too soon.
Go on Marten... Dump her!
I think she moved in with Marten too soon.
I think that, in their need for artificial drama in the strip, some people are just letting their anger control them.
Soon is very much a relative thing. I moved in with my partner after about seven months of dating (only a month of which was spent in the same country, and hence not long distance), and we've now been together going on 8 years. Currently in different countries, incidentally.
- Lets also remember that Renee is still the same Renee that used to date Angus and when he broke up with her, his friends threw a party. (Even with the head transplant)
MAAAAAAAR-TEN!
The general narrative tends to be "The man is always wrong".
How about Claireten? :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface: :claireface:MAAAAAAAR-TEN!
But with that spelling I can't refer to his latest ship as "Claritin."
If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
Check shirt and glasses, third and fourth panels. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1845)- Lets also remember that Renee is still the same Renee that used to date Angus and when he broke up with her, his friends threw a party. (Even with the head transplant)
Head transplant? Could you point to a strip?
I think the last strip and his reaction has more to do with the situation he's in - he is in emotional turmoil: thinking about Padma, maybe some suppressed anger at Renee or Claire (he clearly is sarcastic in the first panel).
I don't think Jeph even intended to make her a recurring member of the cast at that point. Hell, I wonder if she was even supposed to be Angus' ex at that point.
When she finally resurfaced, it makes sense to give her a little more personality, appearance-wise.
Bolded part irks me. You don't get cookies for treating a trans woman the same way you would a cis woman. Marten is not being some special ultra-tolerant angel by dating Claire. He's just NOT being a bigoted jerk. If you would otherwise date someone but won't because they're trans, you're a transphobe.
But Marten is still in more or less the same mindset now as he was at the beginning of the comic. He might have a better job than before, he's had varying degrees of success in his relationships but at the end of the day Marten has his issues and has done nothing to deal with them save for becoming more passive aggressive at times.
I think the issue is different. If I'm not attracted to someone and they happen to be trans, it's not an issue. If I'm attracted to someone and then they turn out to be trans, and that impacts my view of the person's being a viable love/sexual/romantic interest, that DOES speak of a level of bigotry. And flat-out not being attracted to trans people (or rather, claiming so) seems kinda similar to the latter, not to the former.
Please take a step back and consider what you are saying. Your comment implicitly categorises trans women into a distinct category from women as a whole.
Please take a step back and consider what you are saying. Your comment implicitly categorises trans women into a distinct category from women as a whole.But if, say, a guy is romantically and sexually involved with a girl and finds out she was born with boy-parts after the fact, the vast majority will feel that they have been deceived. You can try to call it "phobic" and "bigoted" all day long, but that doesn't change anyone's personal feelings.
With all respect, they ARE. That's not to say that trans people shouldn't be treated with love and respect, but there is a world of difference between being born female and receiving surgical and hormonal treatments to adopt an outwardly female body. If someone is in a relationship with a trans-person and is cool with that (and I known at least one person who was), great! But if, say, a guy is romantically and sexually involved with a girl and finds out she was born with boy-parts after the fact, the vast majority will feel that they have been deceived. You can try to call it "phobic" and "bigoted" all day long, but that doesn't change anyone's personal feelings.
Please take a step back and consider what you are saying. Your comment implicitly categorises trans women into a distinct category from women as a whole.
With all respect, they ARE. That's not to say that trans people shouldn't be treated with love and respect, but there is a world of difference between being born female and receiving surgical and hormonal treatments to adopt an outwardly female body. If someone is in a relationship with a trans-person and is cool with that (and I known at least one person who was), great! But if, say, a guy is romantically and sexually involved with a girl and finds out she was born with boy-parts after the fact, the vast majority will feel that they have been deceived. You can try to call it "phobic" and "bigoted" all day long, but that doesn't change anyone's personal feelings.
For what it's worth, I sympathize with the trans-person as well. Both partners in that case are in an emotionally difficult situation, and calling the cis partner "transphobic" is simply being unreasonable and bigoted on the other side. My trans friends, while they are personally hurt by that kind of rejection, are also more understanding of it than you've proven to be.
But I see that once again, you've ignored my main point.
Renee's original appearance was for the one-off joke that the Secret Bakery was the "anti-Coffee of Doom".
As you can see in 1845, there's some random guy we've never seen again talking to Elliot, which is most likely supposed to be anti-Marten; and then we have Renee, which looks exactly like Faye except for skin color, and finally Padma, who was the "anti-Dora" and this might have lead into her thing with Marten.
I don't think Jeph even intended to make her a recurring member of the cast at that point. Hell, I wonder if she was even supposed to be Angus' ex at that point.
When she finally resurfaced, it makes sense to give her a little more personality, appearance-wise.
there is a world of difference between being born female and receiving surgical and hormonal treatments to adopt an outwardly female body.
Indeed, that's not just Marten. 8-)
But he is the most prominent example in the comic now.
Indeed, that's not just Marten. 8-)
But he is the most prominent example in the comic now.
You're right, but honestly, I was comparing him to myself, not to other characters in the comic. :-D
I think it's generally easier for most of us to deal with issues where we have more emotional distance and perspective, no? Even medical doctors are better off when they don't try to self-diagnose.
I wouldn't. The artwork is dreadful.
I forget, besides the fact that it'd be too big a coincidence, do we have any actual proof that Secret Bakery Renee is Angus's ex Renee?
C'mon, as if there are two people called Renee in Northampton/Massachussetts. :roll:There's only one now, because the other one just walked away :claireface:
I think it was mentioned the first time Faye met Padma.Can anyone with magical archive powers find this? I'd appreciate it :parrot:
I forget, besides the fact that it'd be too big a coincidence, do we have any actual proof that Secret Bakery Renee is Angus's ex Renee?If memory serves, someone posted/linked a tweet of Jeph's WoG-ing her to be the same Renee.
Panel 5: Clinton tells Brun "your advice is always welcome!"
But in panel 3, Brun's advice was to ask his sister for dating advice, and he spent two panels rejecting that advice...
Please take a step back and consider what you are saying. Your comment implicitly categorises trans women into a distinct category from women as a whole.
With all respect, they ARE. That's not to say that trans people shouldn't be treated with love and respect, but there is a world of difference between being born female and receiving surgical and hormonal treatments to adopt an outwardly female body.
Petitioner maintains that the word “sex” in Title IX must refer only to an Individual’s so-called “physiological” sex, rather than the sex with which an individual identifies and lives every day. This is so, Petitioner argues, because “physiological” sex—purportedly unlike gender identity—is binary, objective, and self-evident. The intersex youth for whom amici advocate are a living refutation of this argument.
Petitioner’s simplistic view of “physiological” sex is demonstrably inaccurate as a matter of human biology. Moreover, it demeans many thousands of intersex youth by erasing their bodies and lives and placing them outside the recognition of the law. Physicians who treat individuals with intersex traits recognize that the key determinant of how individuals navigate sex designations in their lives is their gender identity—their internal sense of belonging to a particular gender.
...
Notably, the legal system has struggled for decades to answer the definitional question that Petitioner simply begs. By the time Title IX was enacted, courts well recognized that “(t)here are several criteria or standards which may be relevant in determining the sex of an individual.”
M.T. v. J.T., 355 A.2d 204, 206–08 (N.J. App. Div. 1976) (listing chromosomes, external genitalia, gonads, secondary sex characteristics, and hormones, as well as gender identity).
Commentators have noted the “variability of standards that courts employ” in making such determinations.
Even courts in the same jurisdiction have disagreed about how to determine sex when physiological features do not align.
Petitioner and its amici also assert that “physiological” sex has the virtue of being an “objective” classification. Pet. Br. at 32; McHugh Br. at 3–6, 12–13.
Gender identity, they suggest, is “fuzzy and mercurial,” id. at 8, while “physiological” sex simply is. But the foregoing discussion should make clear that this assertion is similarly flawed. An intersex student’s "physiological” sex may depend entirely on which Physiological trait one chooses to privilege. Indeed, because of the diversity of medical perspectives, trained experts can and do disagree on the “correct” sex to assign to an intersex child.
Interpreting “sex” to refer to a student’s gender identity would avoid (or at least mitigate) these problems. Unlike “physiological” sex, all parties appear to agree on what gender identity means: it is “[an] individual’s ‘innate sense of being male or female.’” Pet. Br. at 36; cf. Resp. Br. at 2 (similar). It is not subject to competing definitions depending on which expert or court is consulted. Moreover, unlike “physiological” sex, a student’s gender identity by definition cannot be subject to differences in medical opinion: each student is the ultimate arbiter of their own gender identity, as they (and they alone) experience it first-hand.
I've been considering a split. I hesitate because Marten's whole-hearted acceptance of Claire is a noteworthy element of the comic and worth discussing.
I gotta say, I get a bit WTF when these sort of debates arise. The worse one I think was the whole safety pin fiasco when people were actively attacking people with the pin on show on social media as *not doing enough*... failing to notice (or even concede) that doing SOMETHING is better than doing nothing, that a show of support lets the people affected know they are NOT as isolated as they may think.
Slightly related to this... I just get miffed at the militancy of certain sections who attack all and sundry if they do not walk the same path as those same militants...
Use that same debate for religion and I think we all know where that leads.
In essence... if someone is supporting your cause, don't be a dick and rat on them for not supporting your cause *enough*, because all that will do is turn them away from you. Maybe better aim your anger at those who are actively, openly and joyfully attacking you?
...just a thought.
I think you're misunderstanding the motivation here in a very critical way. You frame the issue as though it were about ideological purity, akin to how communists split infinitely over tiny details of doctrine. That isn't what it's about at all. It's about disappointment. It is disappointing to find that people don't support your rights as much as you'd believed or hoped. You might think that it's a minor point, but for those who are affected it isn't. Having someone you trusted or admired - or having a community you're part of - turn out to not being as supportive and accepting of you as you thought is a very unsettling experience. It hammers home that even amongst people who are ostensibly accepting that you are still somehow different, something other, rather than just another person. These experiences erode trust, and push people back towards communities of people who share their differences, where they know that they won't be made to feel weird or odd or strange.
It's not about ideological purity, it's about exclusion.
Joe, I think the point is less about your support, which I'm sure is appreciated, than about the hurt of seeing that a meta-discussion about the permissibility of public debate of your group's fuckability is not only allowed, but that it (maybe out of misguided reaction to recent developments by otherwise totally decent people, maybe due to WhatTheFuckDoIknow) is turning into something that superficially reads close to some kind of "Whut? So I have to boink *that kind of people* now to prove I've not a monster? What is liberalism turning into?" meta-debate without any apparent regard as to how that may make "that kind of people" feel.
The worst comments you & I have to fear regarding our fuckability are stupid listicles about 'being too old for cargoshorts' (Ha! HA! I SAY!) or slightly embarrassing articles a la "Dadbod - Hot or Not?". The attempted suicide rate amongst *trans people is at 41% last I checked - the US Department of Defence starts freaking out when the respective rate goes over5%23.8 per 100,000 soldiers (https://www.stripes.com/news/dod-among-services-army-had-highest-suicide-rate-in-2014-1.393144) for combat vets. Just being *trans is infinitely more dangerous than participating in the Battle of the Somme.
We can't apply here the yardstick we're used to is what I'm trying to say.
Not that I'm even remotely close to any approximation of expertise, or have been authorized by the resident *trans community to speak for them, but that'd disappoint me a widdly bit, too. Doesn't take anything away from your argument, which I'm sure is appreciated in the spirit it was offered.
(My *entire pocketload of ill-fitting smallchange*)
Edit: Superficial attempts at restoring legibility and coherence of thought ...
There's a whole massive debate to be had regarding such things and the dynamics of those kinds of 'discussion', but I doubt this thread is the place for it and, in a similar vein to "us white dudes" trying to discuss racism and the minefield that can be, so straight people find the same sorts of artillery lying in wait if they try to discuss of this nature.
There's a whole massive debate to be had regarding such things and the dynamics of those kinds of 'discussion', but I doubt this thread is the place for it and, in a similar vein to "us white dudes" trying to discuss racism and the minefield that can be, so straight people find the same sorts of artillery lying in wait if they try to discuss of this nature.
FWIW, we're trying to have exactly that debate over in DISCUSS - spread out over several threads, actually, mostly the "Callout Culture"-thread. Yeah, tends to be ... delicate, but I feel everybody is bringing their A-game so far.
I'm all for this civil discussion, but I'm trying to catch up on the comic discussion in the comic discussion thread. Could this conversation be moved to a relevant thread? And no, it's not relevant to the comic right now, because in no way has Claire's identity been a focal point or even mentioned in the past five strips, so as tangential as it may be, I'd argue that this isn't really the thread for it? Just my pair 'o pennies worth.I second the motion.
I'm all for this civil discussion, but I'm trying to catch up on the comic discussion in the comic discussion thread. Could this conversation be moved to a relevant thread? And no, it's not relevant to the comic right now, because in no way has Claire's identity been a focal point or even mentioned in the past five strips, so as tangential as it may be, I'd argue that this isn't really the thread for it? Just my pair 'o pennies worth.
(http://i.imgur.com/7NNYBkL.png)
Panel 5: Clinton tells Brun "your advice is always welcome!"
But in panel 3, Brun's advice was to ask his sister for dating advice, and he spent two panels rejecting that advice...
Panel 5: Clinton tells Brun "your advice is always welcome!"
But in panel 3, Brun's advice was to ask his sister for dating advice, and he spent two panels rejecting that advice...
(http://londonbeep.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/cat-dog-pictures-14.jpg)
What is even that dog? It is so small compared to the cat!
What is even that dog? It is so small compared to the cat!
Saxonian Sacrificial Lambherd - not to be trifled with.
It can jump at your throat and .... give you a vicious face-lickin'. Given a suitable ramp and sufficient run-up.
All true *nods sagely*
"I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little puppy, isn't it? "What is even that dog? It is so small compared to the cat!
Saxonian Sacrificial Lambherd - not to be trifled with.
It can jump at your throat and .... give you a vicious face-lickin'. Given a suitable ramp and sufficient run-up.
All true *nods sagely*
"Look, that dog's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!"
"I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little puppy, isn't it? "What is even that dog? It is so small compared to the cat!
Saxonian Sacrificial Lambherd - not to be trifled with.
It can jump at your throat and .... give you a vicious face-lickin'. Given a suitable ramp and sufficient run-up.
All true *nods sagely*
"Look, that dog's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!"
It might be worth the effort though.
"Maybe next time someone chews your shoes, you won't be so quick to lay the blame on me."
Dating Brun would be exhausting.That'd depend entirely on the personality and general disposition of the person dating her.
And on whether you're using radiocarbon dating or just counting her rings...Dating Brun would be exhausting.That'd depend entirely on the personality and general disposition of the person dating her.
It might be worth the effort though.
Given the person Jeph has shown so far, I believe so. Not to say it wouldn't be exhausting, just that it would be worth it in the end.