I hastily added a poll.Ah.
What about Gordon?
I wonder if Faye and Bubbles might get involved too. It could be a good way to get their name out their.That would be awesome. I hope this becomes a thing.
New poll.Awwww. (I'm kidding, my poll sucked) Also:
Speaking of Corpse Witch, can people in Robot Jail have visitors? There might be some people she hasn't alienated and there's also a thing where faith-based groups visit prisons. It could be interesting but perhaps it's better writing to leave Robot Jail to our imagination.
Now, an essential question remains whether or not a chassis is counted as a right. If so, what is the minimum guaranteed chassis?
So it would seem that minimum guaranteed chassis for an AI is that of the AnthroPC, with Pintsize being the Ur-example. Basic enough, but just enough to get around and be helpful.
...
A chassis in the end is a tool.
Edit; someone please tell me to start proof reading before I hit post.
There's also toaster and trashbot to consider.When Momo was getting her new chassis (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1997), the saleswoman had previously been a forklift, then served as the AI for a nuclear submarine. So its obvious that AI aren't necessarily constrained by their choices, so its not like they're banned from changing chassis.
Though I agree with the fit for purpose idea; Jeremy is a prime example there.
There's also the point of the chassis May is issued as a parolee. Could it be, while humanoid chassis are, presumably, luxury items, that immersion in human society is supposed to be part of her reintegration, regardless of what she might chose afterwards?I see May's chassis as part ankle monitor, part halfway house and part sentence. She's not getting a free ride, nor is she getting a free chassis. She's working as part of the agreement of her parole. Its crap, its falling apart and I would not be surprised if there was some sort of lock preventing her from uploading to a new chassis until her sentence was completed. Its living with Dale that is allowing her to integrate with society and to hopefully become a productive member of society.
Note, this is not an attempt to resurrect the argument from the other thread. I'm not saying she deserves a malfunctioning, unmaintained, and obsolete body. I'm just speculating on the implications of the government issued chassis.I would not be surprised in the slightest if the government got the chassis for next to nothing because they were the first generation or the test batch or even just a defective batch.
Separation from their body is cruel, in as much as they depend on it, and define themselves by it. On the other hand, it's not very hard to imagine an AI changing which chassis they wear, based on what they need/want to do. It seems to be a fairly easy procedure for them.Let's stop a moment and consider this - Humans are essentially a species intrinsically connected to our bodies. For all we think ourselves a reasonable intelligent species, we're still one that relies 100% on our bodies, to the point we're the slightest change to that body completely changes our quality of life. Now consider this, AIs are not human...in the sense that we understand. We might have modelled themselves on us, they are completely and utterly a species of the mind.
To what degree would their chassis be considered property? There might also be the question of it being seized, to pay for reparations.Presumably the chassis would be treated as something like a car in that there's someone's name on the paperwork, probably the human companion's.
During May's work release Momo made it sound like Robot Jail inmates were stuck on a hard drive in a server rack. That could be why May said it was horrible.
I hope Winslow runs into new robots/people while volunteering and the whole May story-line is mostly dropped. I'd like to see Momo and Winslow interact more. Doesn't have to be a shippy thing though I'd be okay with that too. Just any kind of interaction. Momo is a fun character. She kind of reminds me of Hannelore in some ways.
I guess it's just me. I still think Winslow had nothing to apologize for. May should have been the one to apologize. Privilege is one thing, but it doesn't justify acting like an asshole.
Something that kind of bugs me about this arc is that it was a complete no-win scenario for Winslow. May got mad at him for simply stating that he GOT a new body at all. She's mad because he was even CAPABLE of getting a new body so easily. She's not mad at him because of the new body, she's mad at him because it's easier for him to GET a new body than her. She's mad at him for something he had no control over.
If he HAD thought of her situation and chosen not to say anything, she would have been mad at being intentionally shunned. Nothing Winslow could do here would have avoided pissing off May, and that hits me wrong. He didn't DO anything except be a little bit luckier than her. He doesn't owe her an apology for that.
I still think Winslow had nothing to apologize for and May should have been the one to apologize. I guess it's just me. Privilege is one thing, but it doesn't justify acting like an asshole.
QuoteThere's also toaster and trashbot to consider.When Momo was getting her new chassis (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1997), the saleswoman had previously been a forklift, then served as the AI for a nuclear submarine. So its obvious that AI aren't necessarily constrained by their choices, so its not like they're banned from changing chassis.
Though I agree with the fit for purpose idea; Jeremy is a prime example there.QuoteThere's also the point of the chassis May is issued as a parolee. Could it be, while humanoid chassis are, presumably, luxury items, that immersion in human society is supposed to be part of her reintegration, regardless of what she might chose afterwards?I see May's chassis as part ankle monitor, part halfway house and part sentence. She's not getting a free ride, nor is she getting a free chassis. She's working as part of the agreement of her parole. Its crap, its falling apart and I would not be surprised if there was some sort of lock preventing her from uploading to a new chassis until her sentence was completed. Its living with Dale that is allowing her to integrate with society and to hopefully become a productive member of society.QuoteNote, this is not an attempt to resurrect the argument from the other thread. I'm not saying she deserves a malfunctioning, unmaintained, and obsolete body. I'm just speculating on the implications of the government issued chassis.I would not be surprised in the slightest if the government got the chassis for next to nothing because they were the first generation or the test batch or even just a defective batch.QuoteSeparation from their body is cruel, in as much as they depend on it, and define themselves by it. On the other hand, it's not very hard to imagine an AI changing which chassis they wear, based on what they need/want to do. It seems to be a fairly easy procedure for them.Let's stop a moment and consider this - Humans are essentially a species intrinsically connected to our bodies. For all we think ourselves a reasonable intelligent species, we're still one that relies 100% on our bodies, to the point we're the slightest change to that body completely changes our quality of life. Now consider this, AIs are not human...in the sense that we understand. We might have modelled themselves on us, they are completely and utterly a species of the mind.
The loss of the body for an AI is a inconvenience at best and just plain annoying at worse. With that in mind, we can't have the exact same type of punishment for an AI that we do for a human even if the essence is still the same. We imprison people to show the consequences of their criminal action being the loss of freedom. AI are imprisoned and uploaded from their chassis to show them that their criminal actions reduces them to a lone AI in a server, unable to interact with the world. A human prisoner can still feel the breeze on their skin, so what does an AI feel?QuoteTo what degree would their chassis be considered property? There might also be the question of it being seized, to pay for reparations.Presumably the chassis would be treated as something like a car in that there's someone's name on the paperwork, probably the human companion's.
Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself.
The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.
True, and that's why today's resolution between May and Winslow works. They are being nice to each other.
May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.So she shouldn't accept Winslow's apology until, what, he buys her a new body? I don't think I accept that idea. Winslow is responsible for his own behaviour, which was arguably insensitive, but I don't think he's somehow responsible for fixing May's entire difficult life situation, a large part of which is her responsibility. Besides which, forgiving other people is something you do for yourself, not for them.
So... Are those real pigeon or is the fire in that one's eyes sign that they are something else and are the remote-control agents of someone who is watching May?I think it just signifies that it is filled with spicy habanero fire. I now imagine May shouting "Drakaris!" at a cloud of pigeons...
Humans eat something specifically designed to be toxic to them because carpe gotta fuckin diem.
Humans eat something specifically designed to be toxic to them because carpe gotta fuckin diem.
More evidence for the theory that Mother Nature was ludicrously shitfaced when she designed us ...
Incidentally, Tesla was well known to spend, at the end of his life, more time with pigeons than with people. Do they know something? First they take over pigeonkind, and then, the world...
I honestly find this strip deeply disheartening. Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself. The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.
Is shoulder-leaning a universal robot thing?
It comes off as flirty between humans but now we have both May and Momo and May and Winslow doing it. So maybe body language is different in the AI world. ?
I don't think that the whole confrontation meant as much to May as it did to us.
Let's take a cue from our characters, and move on, to see how the rest of the story unfolds.
FWIW, I'm wondering if, now the moment has passed, May has lost a lot of her anger towards Winslow and may have more-or-less forgotten the whole issue.
FWIW, I'm wondering if, now the moment has passed, May has lost a lot of her anger towards Winslow and may have more-or-less forgotten the whole issue.
Basically what I was thinking. She vented and satisfied her immediate impulse, which was to take out her frustrations about the shite she's dealing with in her life on a convenient target who presented himself.
You do know that responding with these images seems very condescending, right?
You do know that responding with these images seems very condescending, right?
[C]an people in Robot Jail have visitors?Extrapolating from what Jeph has revealed about QC-verse AI society - Robots value the sanctity of the mind far above sanctity of the
May has her good qualities, and for some that may not be enough to out weight what she did to him, but Winslow, however childish he seems to be, is still capable of making his own choices. If he sees something of value in May, then so be it.
The people that want to get up in arms and act like Winslow should shun May from now on for one outburst, well, I have choice words about that kind of sensitivity. And before anyone throws around the word "Toxic" I advise you remember that everyone is an ass once in a while, and this is May's first (and maybe last) time being so to Winslow. I'd argue that we've seen most of the cast of QC put each other threw far, far worse outbursts, and they all have far more loving relationships than the bare acquaintance between these two.
You do know that responding with these images seems very condescending, right?
?
I usually add a quote when I want a specific forumite to know that my response is about their post(s) - so, e.g. if Cornelius feels condescended to due to the Yoda-pic (I hope not), I'd like to know.
I thought the line of his that I quoted to be a fine conclusion -> hence the Yoda.
So... Are those real pigeon or is the fire in that one's eyes sign that they are something else and are the remote-control agents of someone who is watching May?I think it just signifies that it is filled with spicy habanero fire. I now imagine May shouting "Drakaris!" at a cloud of pigeons...
I half expect someone to start lecturing May about feeding spicy junk food to pigeons. Normally, I'd find that tiresome, but with May it would be poetic justice.
My two bits, for what it's worth. I don't mind the pictures, necessarily. I thought the Yoda one was a nice segue.You do know that responding with these images seems very condescending, right?
?
I usually add a quote when I want a specific forumite to know that my response is about their post(s) - so, e.g. if Cornelius feels condescended to due to the Yoda-pic (I hope not), I'd like to know.
I thought the line of his that I quoted to be a fine conclusion -> hence the Yoda.
I'm not offended, but a lot of times with the gifs and image responses it feels like "Your thoughts on this aren't even worth addressing." or "Look at how I can make fun of people by saying I'm above whatever it is they are talking about."
I'm not saying that you are intending either of those things, but it can very much look that way.
I dropped the discussion in the other thread cause they made a good point that, until we had further information from the comic to discuss, there was very little new to say. Now that we have a new comic that addresses EXACTLY what I was discussing, there was something new to say.
And I said it, and I was going to leave it there. I'm not sure what the point of a comic discussion thread is if discussion of the new comic isn't allowed, or only positive reactions to the comic aren't met with derision. (by this, I mean, people continuing to say to move on, which is exactly the problem that we are having, that May gets to just move on without looking at her actions, are not responded to with images saying they are beating a dead horse or going in circles, despite the fact that the denial of what we see is a problem is half of what is continuing the cycle.)
I half suspect that May's original upbringing was less than successful and first being installed in a combat aircraft amplified her inability to perceive others as people, as most of the things she interacted with fell into the category of objects awaiting fulfillment/martyrdom that only differed in their awareness of their fate: cloned warriors only bright enough to accomplish a single task (the character of Bomb #20, in the film "Dark Star" is an example of too smart a bomb) and targets. Everything else is a source of information demanding she perform a task that they are clearly incapable of performing themselves, making them less than herself. Upon discovery that her interactions with the wider world were not obviously monitored and her own choice (provided she did not fulfill/martyr anything in the process), she was just her normal amoral self and accomplished her missions with as little regard to what to others as she had for the martyrs. As a combat aircraft, she needed to assume that, at least in situations that would prevent the success of a mission, nasty consequences of her actions would only matter in the after action report, not during planning. As she demonstrated in the half-way house that she could perceive others as persons like herself, she won her parole. She is in a humanoid chassis to force upon her the perspective that other persons are as people as she is.
[May as combat veteran scenario snipped]If May was a vet suffering from the AI equivalent of PTSD, I think Bubbles would have picked up on it. From a writing standpoint, Jeph is using the two characters to represent two different segments of society.
for some reason i remember that birds dont taste spicey stuff like we do. I could be wrong but i feel like i remember learning that.I think you're right. Parrot food often includes dried peppers/pepper seeds.
[May as combat veteran fantasy scenario snipped]
I'm not offended, but a lot of times with the gifs and image responses it feels like "Your thoughts on this aren't even worth addressing." or "Look at how I can make fun of people by saying I'm above whatever it is they are talking about."
I'm not saying that you are intending either of those things, but it can very much look that way.
Oh, and Internet memes or image macros? Passé. There is nothing exciting or new about any of them, and they just make people sigh when they see them.
<snip>
Writing from Flanders' fields, here.
I think that maybe that might be a good point to then take the discussion to a more general level (like e.g. the 'callout culture' (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30803.0.html)-thread we have over in Discuss!) - at the very least, it has the advantage that the conversation doesn't depend one specific framing and/or specific choices of the artist.
Just an idea (!!!) - No "have to"'s, or "must be(es)" attached, mind you!
I honestly find this strip deeply disheartening. Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself. The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.
the character of Bomb #20, in the film "Dark Star" is an example of too smart a bomb
I fall on May's side (which looks to be an unpopular opinion) and even I think this is ridiculous. Inadvertently being insensitive certainly doesn't warrant him having to take full responsibility for her situation. He doesn't owe her anything at this point.I honestly find this strip deeply disheartening. Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself. The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.That is actually ridiculous.
Yeah, May was never military.I mean, we don't know that she was never military, just that she was most likely not military when she tried to become a jet.
I honestly find this strip deeply disheartening. Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself. The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.
Yeah, May was never military.I mean, we don't know that she was never military, just that she was most likely not military when she tried to become a jet.
May - the Che Guevara of Pigeon kind
Because most, if not all military vehicles aren't made by the military. The military contracts production of its materiel to outside companies, like the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. While a fifth generation fighter jet, used by the US air force, its produced by Lockheed Martin and various sub-contractors in a contract worth, I believe, $60 billion since the inception of the Raptor.
May wouldn't have to have been a military AI, she could just be one of the AI totting up numbers and skimming a little off the top to get to the $360 million.
have a shirt made. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3035)"ReformChassis", I guess that confirms that she was given this one when released. We still have no idea what she did before or what kind of body she had, though.
My guess is that May had absolutely nothing to do with the military, that she was an AI in a bank or some other such money-laden institution. In this comic, (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2502) she says she was planning to buy a fighter jet on the black market, one made by what I assume by the name is a Chinese company.Specifically, May wanted to buy a Chengzhou YF-29. I am not aware of any Chinese aerospace concern of that name (the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_Aircraft_Industry_Group) comes closest), and Chinese military aircraft are invariably built by state-owned enterprises, but YF-29 is probably a shout-out to the Macross anime series (http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/yf-29.htm).
And let's not get started on all things we eat, drink, and enjoy that basically have gone off...
I have a hellish craving for spicy Doritos right now.
So good to see that Winslow didn't hold May's behaviour against her. And she didn't harp on it either. I really like seeing how the friendships between the AI characters pan out!
I'm not offended, but a lot of times with the gifs and image responses it feels like "Your thoughts on this aren't even worth addressing." or "Look at how I can make fun of people by saying I'm above whatever it is they are talking about."
I'm not saying that you are intending either of those things, but it can very much look that way.
I suppose it's worth mentioning that six years ago, in my supplement to Jeph's rules for the forum, I wrote:Oh, and Internet memes or image macros? Passé. There is nothing exciting or new about any of them, and they just make people sigh when they see them.
Over the years other matters have exercised the mods much more than this. But it's probably fair to say that they've been approaching the level at which I would want to complain, although I admit that there are forums that see them used far more (and which I consequently dislike). Perhaps this is the moment to ask people not to use them unless they are sure they are good enough and original enough to pass muster. They say a picture is worth a thousand words - that can be so, but in this context they are often worth none at all.
Has May ever expressed remorse for trying to steal three quarters of a billion dollars?If May had joined the military, she'd have been bounced out of basic training within the first day or two as "Unsuitable for Military Service." That is, if AIs go through basic at all or are just programmed for it.
Whatever we believe she should do, apologizing to Winslow would be either out of character or overly sudden character growth.
If she'd been in somebody's Air Force before her finance job, that could explain how she got the idea to be a fighter jet.
Try to be nice to each other. I think I heard someone say that once.
And there's no need to have been in an air force to want to fly. I do wonder, though, if that's why May the Nasty is being kind to pigeons.
I hope I can bring in my post form yesterday since we're still focusing on this topic. Mods is there anyway it can be moved or should I just paste it back in here?
Bubbles, Bubbles... you're doing it wrong. You should use hilariously outdated slang (like from the nineties, or the eighties). Then you will be so uncool it will loop back around and be cool again.So, something like 'spiffy'?
Or you could use slang from, like, the sixties, and then you can sound cool unironically, because it's so old it no longer registers as "outdated" anymore. Or preferrably, use the terminology from the Victorian era.
EDIT: more seriously though, I do empathize with Bubbles. I think I'm officially an adult, because recently, I started thinking more and more along the lines of "wow, you sound really stupid" when I see people younger than me talk on the Internet. I need a house with a lawn in front, so I can yell at the kids to get off it.
I suppose it's worth mentioning that six years ago, in my supplement to Jeph's rules for the forum, I wrote:Oh, and Internet memes or image macros? Passé. There is nothing exciting or new about any of them, and they just make people sigh when they see them.
Over the years other matters have exercised the mods much more than this. But it's probably fair to say that they've been approaching the level at which I would want to complain, although I admit that there are forums that see them used far more (and which I consequently dislike). Perhaps this is the moment to ask people not to use them unless they are sure they are good enough and original enough to pass muster. They say a picture is worth a thousand words - that can be so, but in this context they are often worth none at all.
(Regular user)Seconded(/)
(Mod)Seconded(/)
not knowing the context often means that The Urban Dictionary is of little help.Especially since almost everything in UD seems to have at least one definition that is either drug-related, or a sex-act.
I have thoroughly enjoyed following the Winslow arc discussion; it constantly made me reconsider my opinions and helped me triangulate my own thoughts on the matter, so even if it did end up becoming a case of indecent treatment of an equine post mortem, I very much appreciated it. :)
In today's news, scientists are baffled by the rapid and seemingly unending increase of Bubbles's adorableness. Can it continue to grow? Or will it eventually collapse on itself? More at 7.
So, something like 'spiffy'?So that's why "spiffy" works so well! And you can throw in "peachy-keen" for variety.
I hope I can bring in my post form yesterday since we're still focusing on this topic. Mods is there anyway it can be moved or should I just paste it back in here?
Well golly-gee-gosh, can you folks hear me back there in the 1950s?
Well golly-gee-gosh, can you folks hear me back there in the 1950s?Not so sure that one works again yet. Maybe when the next ultra-conservative generation comes around.
Ever had Paquí Ghost Pepper chips?
('Spill the tea'? in my day, we called it gossip!")
Read your 'about' as "You is fiend or food?".
Still thinking about the answer ...the character of Bomb #20, in the film "Dark Star" is an example of too smart a bomb
"Teach it pheno-meno-logy, Dolittle"
"Hey ... Bomb?"
"Let there be light!"
:laugh:(click to show/hide)
For what it's worth: Bubbles' advice was, indeed, not a hot take. It was a take (as in "here's my take on it"), but not of the hot variety.not knowing the context often means that The Urban Dictionary is of little help.Especially since almost everything in UD seems to have at least one definition that is either drug-related, or a sex-act.
UD defines "hot take" as "An opinion based on simplistic moralizing rather than actual thought", which is not what I would call Bubbles's advice to Winslow.
Well, you got that even without the beans.Twice even.
Big Mamma Bubbles :-DFaye should make her a crown hairclip (like the tiny hats) and see if any of the AIs start calling her 'mum'.
I honestly find this strip deeply disheartening. Having May easily accept Winslow's apology further marginalizes the oppressed and onus of marginalized people like myself. The oppressed owe the oppressors nothing, least of all pardoning of your sins. May shouldn't be accepting the apology until Winslow at least ensures she's in as good a place as he himself.
In what conceivable way is Winslow oppressing May? He has done and is doing NOTHING to oppress her.
What sin did Winslow commit? Being happy? Trying to share his happiness with people he views as friends? Improving his situation in life? At worst (and I don't even buy it but for the sake of argument) he commited a slight social faux pas. May, on the other hand, verbally assaulted an innocent person who had done no harm to her whatsoever and is in no way responsible for her current situation.
May shouldn't be accepting Winslow's apology. She should be offering her own instead. Sadly (and surprisingly based on the rest of Jeph's work) we are seeing the bully rewarded and vindicated. Its a huge shame.
I'm really hoping that this is something that can actually have both sides grow some from it...and perhaps have May finally understand her own side of how she got into the position.
However, I'm still annoyed about how May went off on the guy because it was largely uncalled for there...
... It tells you a lot that May is genuinely shocked by all of this. She really wasn't expecting her words to have that sort of impact. Indeed, I don't think that she really thought at all about what effects, if any, her words would have beyond Winslow going away).
I think Hanners did it because cookies.Cookies!
When I read it I thought Hannelore seemed close to tears in the fourth panel, and then realised it was because of the extra bit of shine in her eye and the fact that the text in the speech bubble looks slightly smaller (not sure whether it actually is or whether I'm seeing things :P).
I can't quite interpret May's apparent utter shock in panel two. Which is she more startled by; that Winslow would do charity work, or that he wouldn't say so?
In any case, panel five reads like the beginnings of the "oh i'm a dick" realization that May sorely needs.
When sweet, gentle, as-non-confrontational-as-humanly-and-robotly-possible Hannelore lectures you, it carries weight. I love how bald she is about it (also a sign of her own development) - "Of course he apologized. He's a good person." She subtlely calls out May's view and treatment of Winslow as a dick.
Of course, with today's comic, I and my fellow doubters were proven utterly and entirely wrong. That'll teach us to doubt Jeph! :P
I love Hanners because despite all of her insecurities and mental illness, she is one of the most mature in the whole group.
She calls people out but she also apologizes herself and she really does forgive other people (I'm looking at crazy Clinton). Not to mention, that you can tell this was scary for her to do.
Also, the cookies was a great humor at the end.
Of course, with today's comic, I and my fellow doubters were proven utterly and entirely wrong. That'll teach us to doubt Jeph! :P
There's nothing wrong with having disagreements with an author over their work. Criticism, etc.
But I hope next time people will at LEAST wait until he's done writing the thing before acting like they've been struck a mortal blow and are eternally wronged.
Edit: This also likely isn't the end of this arc. We don't know how May's going to follow up with Winslow yet, or what kind of work he'll be doing. It's ongoing.
Heck, the only thing in the whole comic I remember truly bothering me was Veronica's humiliation conga through her son's life after his break-up, something which she was never called out on except by Marten himself, upon which she scolded him for it ... and he not only accepted it, but actually felt better afterwards. But I'm getting off topic now.
Of course, disagreements with an author are perfectly fine! Like you say, the problem was that we were too quick to criticise; a pitfall of the medium, I imagine - getting the story one piece a day leaves us time to form opinions at every step which evidently can turn out to be very premature.
I like people discussing the topic of privilege. It's seen as a very touchy egg-shell-walking conversation piece but is very important as society evolves.
Aaw, Hanners is the best.
I don't think May was at fault for checking Winslow's privilege but Hanner's interaction with May definitely points out the flaw in how May behaves when she's offended - i.e. if she wants to actually have friends, she needs to put the effort into maintaining friendships. Being rude is one thing when you have no intention of being friends with the person whose privilege you've just checked but May is a part of the social circle now so she can't just trample on people's feelings without reciprocating an apology.
(new comic, nr 3553) Way to go Hanners! And I think this is the right way; May is still learning how to deal with things, mostly by Momo, but now from others as well. Her rather baffled look shows she never thought about that.
And uhm, is it just me or do I detect a hint of release the virus (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443) in Hanners eyes?
Your level of friendship with someone should not be a requirement for you to treat them with the same respect you wish to be treated. There are ways to get people to understand their privilege that do not require attacking them. If you get hurt, and lash out and attack someone, you should probably apologize, whether you want to be friends with the person or not. Because they are a human being and if you want people to be treated with respect, you should do the same.
Either it was the wrong thing to do, and you need to apologize, or it was the right thing to do, and you owe no apology. Your friendship level or desired friendship level with the person does not enter into the equation. Doing otherwise is saying that you aren't apologizing because you hurt them, but because you want something from them (their friendship).
EDIT: This is specifically addressing a well-meaning person being thoughtless. Be as rude as you want to Nazis, they are actively making the choice to be shitty.
Something I just thought of. It's interesting that May's very first words to Hanners were to apologise for yelling at Winslow, but it hadn't occurred to her that perhaps Winslow is the one she should be apologising to.
Something I just thought of. It's interesting that May's very first words to Hanners were to apologise for yelling at Winslow, but it hadn't occurred to her that perhaps Winslow is the one she should be apologising to.
How is the default manner you treat people being rude not messed up?
How can we want anyone to care about our struggles, how can we demand people care about anyone who isn't like them when we don't care enough about anyone who isn't in our friend bubble to treat them with respect?
You talk about calling people on their privilege, but why should they care how it impacts you if you clearly don't care how what you do impacts them?B
idk maybe it's just how I feel about rudeness in general. It's horrible but it's not as bad as actual discrimination, and it doesn't disqualify the individual nor the entire demographic from being treated as a human being by systemic forces (government, societal standards, etc).
Of course it doesn't! But I also don't subscribe to a mindset that "if they aren't my friends it doesn't matter if I hurt their feelings". Which is a dangerous mindset. That is the mindset that says that your bubble matters, the other doesn't.
And that belief that my actions should be designed around the idea that everyone's feelings matter is WHY I care about discrimination.
Hurt feelings matter but systematic mistreatment matters even more. Winslow prioritised the latter instead of getting mad at May for the former, which is a much more reasonable mindset than most people exhibit irl.
Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect. I fail quite a lot. I can get hot headed. I can snap at people, friend, family, stranger.
The truth is though, that when I do, it IS a failure on my part. It isn't morally OK to treat any well meaning person rudely. I owe them an apology whether they are a friend or not.
Either I was justified in being rude (for instance, the dude is a nazi, in which case I'm very justified) and I do not owe anyone an apology, or I wasn't justified, and I should apologize.
If I do anything different I'm not apologizing for doing something wrong, I'm apologizing because I want them to be my friend. It is an apology designed to get something from them.
I can be dead right about what I said, and still be an asshole. And if I'm being an asshole to someone who isn't trying to hurt me, I'm wrong.
Hurt feelings matter but systematic mistreatment matters even more. Winslow prioritised the latter instead of getting mad at May for the former, which is a much more reasonable mindset than most people exhibit irl.
Mixing interpersonal interactions on those on societal scales here, while implicitly treating them as if they were the same, or even of the same order.
I'm probably not quite following this conversation correctly, but are you accusing Winston of systemic mistreatment? Because I don't see it.
It's almost like May felt that Winslow was just property and was apologizing for "damaging property". "Sorry I yelled atyour buddythat thing you owned.
Forgiveness means letting go of the hope for a better past.
It isn't "OK" to by default treat everyone rude. Yes, some people do, and it can be complicated, especially if they have a past that caused that kind of attitude, but to say it is morally fine is going beyond saying "I understand" it is saying "I condone it."
Edit: After a few seconds' further reflection I realize this would spin off into a WHOLE huge thing on differing philosophical systems and interpretations of ethics and just hhh...it's not worth it. Nevermind.
Edit: After a few seconds' further reflection I realize this would spin off into a WHOLE huge thing on differing philosophical systems and interpretations of ethics and just hhh...it's not worth it. Nevermind.
Please don't say something incensing or argumentative, then immediately say you don't want anyone to talk about it while still leaving the argument up. It's the rhetoric equivalent of slapping someone then yelling you don't want to start a fight.
Another thing, I understand that there is significant difference between interpersonal rudeness, and institutionalised discrimination, which, as I understand it, is at the base of this privilege question. However, it seems to me that then saying it's alright to treat people outside of your in group with less respect, is at the very least a slippery slope. One that arguably leads to your macro-issues, in the long run. But perhaps that's something we should take to the relevant Discuss threads, that do already offer some interesting reading./snip//snip/
However, it seems to me that then saying it's alright to treat people outside of your in group with less respect, is at the very least a slippery slope. One that arguably leads to your macro-issues, in the long run. But perhaps that's something we should take to the relevant Discuss threads, that do already offer some interesting reading.
Might I suggest if you don't want to open a can of worms, not opening the can of worms.
So many pages of conversation, and no-one has yet pointed out the most glaring issue with the most recent comic.Without triggering a debate on the relative merits of digestive biscuits, let's just clarify that fancy imported British snacks are rarely (even in a college town) going to be convenience store fare in the US. Pepperidge Farm cookies are definitely going to be the highest-end product available.
Shortbread >> all cookies
Also chocolate digestives >> mint milanos whatever they are
@ me or not
Edit: then there are macarons, which are frankly magnificent.
However, it seems to me that then saying it's alright to treat people outside of your in group with less respect, is at the very least a slippery slope. One that arguably leads to your macro-issues, in the long run. But perhaps that's something we should take to the relevant Discuss threads, that do already offer some interesting reading.
Is this directed at me?
Because I don't remember saying that either.
It isn't "OK" to by default treat everyone rude. Yes, some people do, and it can be complicated, especially if they have a past that caused that kind of attitude, but to say it is morally fine is going beyond saying "I understand" it is saying "I condone it."
This mixes a lot of larger ideas, but the tl;dr version is: No.
Slightly longer version: there's nothing immoral about rudeness; you're confusing morality with social mores, which are not at all the same thing nor are they equally relevant to everyone.
There are a lot of things I don't condone that are also "morally fine."
He sees something, thinks that it might 'be funny' and does it without any consideration of other people or the consequences (even to him personally).I think he fully considers the consequences of his actions. That's exactly why he does them. His desired outcomes are just different than most people's.
So many pages of conversation, and no-one has yet pointed out the most glaring issue with the most recent comic.Shortbread >> all cookies
Also chocolate digestives >> mint milanos whatever they are
@ me or not
Edit: then there are macarons, which are frankly magnificent.
There's somebody else who thinks like Pintsize! 😱
Does ... it look like Pintsize is staring off into the distance to anyone else? I don't know, I just got a distant vibe from him in the first couple panels.
Let's not try and imagine what might have happened with Momo's old chassis, considering its ... functionalities.
I'm thinking Union Robotics will have 2 new jobs. 1. Clean up Winslow's old chassis and 2. Fix whatever damage Winslow does to Pintsize.
Why would he do that to Pintsize?Why would he not? Pintsize deserves it and Winslow isn't THAT nice a guy.
Why would he do that to Pintsize?
Why would he do that to Pintsize?Why would he not? Pintsize deserves it and Winslow isn't THAT nice a guy.
Of course, who knows what will happen in today's comic...
Even though that sums to be the default first reaction to Pintsize being Pintsize, I don't think it's in character for Winslow.
Of course, who knows what will happen in today's comic, but I doubt violence is in the cards.
Interesting. What exactly is this nebulous space Winslow inhabits in which he is simultaneously abusive and innocent?
I might ask how you even remotely correlate getting yelled at for simply saying hi to someone with him being abusive.
Going by past QC form, I would not expect violence, slapstick or otherwise, from any male character in the strip.
Going by past QC form, I would not expect violence, slapstick or otherwise, from any male character in the strip.
Like Marten and the "monk", you mean?
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
Okay, own up, who angrily emailed Jeph about columbine gustation?
New comic up!
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
Of course, who knows what will happen in today's comic...
Donors to Jeph's Patreon do; shame on you IICIH for unmarked spoilers! :wink:
From what i can tell, covering everything in poop is the endgoal for all of pigeonkind anyway, so I dunno how worried we should be.
Okay, own up, who angrily emailed Jeph about columbine gustation?
New comic up!
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
It *does* kinda look like that doesn't it !
New comic up!
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
It *does* kinda look like that doesn't it !
That's because it is his old chassis. Its got the feet and the tiny little arms in the last two panels.
New comic up!
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
I think of AI's chassis as clothes, more than as body parts. And you can still use clothes, even when you are not wearing them, to put stuff in pockets, rest a weary head on and such. And clearly, even without sentience, the tablet is still a tablet. Nothing weird about it, I would say
Perhaps for the same reason some of us meat users still prefer a separate pocket calculator to the one that comes with your OS accessories - they just find it easier to use. Or in this case Winslow may be practicing acting like a meat person.I think of AI's chassis as clothes, more than as body parts. And you can still use clothes, even when you are not wearing them, to put stuff in pockets, rest a weary head on and such. And clearly, even without sentience, the tablet is still a tablet. Nothing weird about it, I would say
I get what you are saying, and I agree, somewhat. However, I still find him using his old chassis as a tablet a bit creepy. And would he need to do that anyway? I thought the AIs had a neural interface into the net built in?
Maybe, but still weird. It must take so much longer! I mean, contrast writing up something on a mobile or tablet with doing it on a keyboard or just speaking it into a microphone - it must be so much easier to use. Or he's not actually looking stuff up but is checking up on the progress of the millionth wipe he had his old body undergo - as far as I know, he still wants to donate it.Perhaps for the same reason some of us meat users still prefer a separate pocket calculator to the one that comes with your OS accessories - they just find it easier to use. Or in this case Winslow may be practicing acting like a meat person.I think of AI's chassis as clothes, more than as body parts. And you can still use clothes, even when you are not wearing them, to put stuff in pockets, rest a weary head on and such. And clearly, even without sentience, the tablet is still a tablet. Nothing weird about it, I would say
I get what you are saying, and I agree, somewhat. However, I still find him using his old chassis as a tablet a bit creepy. And would he need to do that anyway? I thought the AIs had a neural interface into the net built in?
From what i can tell, covering everything in poop is the endgoal for all of pigeonkind anyway, so I dunno how worried we should be.
Today, May learns that her most treasured dream is a fantasy, blown away like a waft of smoke in a strong wind by the unforgiving gale that is reality (You can tell I'm still bitter about dragons not being real, can't you?). Silliness aside, I find it interesting that May and Winslow have such an easygoing conversation. Although it has not been mentioned in-strip, it is clear that they are friends, to a certain interpretation of the word. They are clearly friendly enough together to be at ease with each other in most circumstances.
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
Yes, he is. Its clear that his previous chassis is nothing more than a 'dumb' tablet computer with minimal limbs without an AI mind present. This strip is also an insight, I think, into how AIs view chassis in terms of 'personhood'. To them, it's just a bit of hardware to be used as intended (or even recycled) if there is no sentient mind present. I wonder if this extends to their attitude towards death in humans and their view of corpses?
but what does it say about the people who think it's funny/reasonable stress relief to throw someone around just because they can?
So he's not a nice enough guy to avoid enacting unnecessary violence toward another AI, but he's too nice to deserve getting yelled at by another AI?
I might ask how you even remotely correlate getting yelled at for simply saying hi to someone with him being abusive.
I don't?
So he's not a nice enough guy to avoid enacting unnecessary violence toward another AI, but he's too nice to deserve getting yelled at by another AI?
Interesting. What exactly is this nebulous space Winslow inhabits in which he is simultaneously abusive and innocent?
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
Yes, he is. Its clear that his previous chassis is nothing more than a 'dumb' tablet computer with minimal limbs without an AI mind present. This strip is also an insight, I think, into how AIs view chassis in terms of 'personhood'. To them, it's just a bit of hardware to be used as intended (or even recycled) if there is no sentient mind present. I wonder if this extends to their attitude towards death in humans and their view of corpses?
Anyone else suddenly concerned about an AI opening a cannery in the QCverse? Especially if they're fans of suspense thrillers from the 70s?
I might ask how you even remotely correlate getting yelled at for simply saying hi to someone with him being abusive.
I don't?
Except when you do?So he's not a nice enough guy to avoid enacting unnecessary violence toward another AI, but he's too nice to deserve getting yelled at by another AI?
Interesting. What exactly is this nebulous space Winslow inhabits in which he is simultaneously abusive and innocent?
Your own words. Winslow can't be abusive unless he deserved to get yelled at. Even though he literally did nothing but say hi to May in a new body to get yelled at. There is no correlation between the two, or any reason to link them at all. Yet you felt the need to bring it up again. Because... why exactly? Because you object to people liking Winslow?
Here's a secret, you can yell at someone without justification whether or not that person is a jerk. Because whether or not that person is a jerk does not determine whether or not you, yourself, are a jerk.
And would he need to do that anyway?Easiest way to ensure Pintsize isn't messing with it?
Hang on, is he using his old chassis to look things up?
Yes, he is. Its clear that his previous chassis is nothing more than a 'dumb' tablet computer with minimal limbs without an AI mind present. This strip is also an insight, I think, into how AIs view chassis in terms of 'personhood'. To them, it's just a bit of hardware to be used as intended (or even recycled) if there is no sentient mind present. I wonder if this extends to their attitude towards death in humans and their view of corpses?
Anyone else suddenly concerned about an AI opening a cannery in the QCverse? Especially if they're fans of suspense thrillers from the 70s?
This sounds like a reference to something, but I have no idea what. Could you please explain?
Maybe, but still weird. It must take so much longer! I mean, contrast writing up something on a mobile or tablet with doing it on a keyboard or just speaking it into a microphone - it must be so much easier to use. Or he's not actually looking stuff up but is checking up on the progress of the millionth wipe he had his old body undergo - as far as I know, he still wants to donate it.Perhaps for the same reason some of us meat users still prefer a separate pocket calculator to the one that comes with your OS accessories - they just find it easier to use. Or in this case Winslow may be practicing acting like a meat person.I think of AI's chassis as clothes, more than as body parts. And you can still use clothes, even when you are not wearing them, to put stuff in pockets, rest a weary head on and such. And clearly, even without sentience, the tablet is still a tablet. Nothing weird about it, I would say
I get what you are saying, and I agree, somewhat. However, I still find him using his old chassis as a tablet a bit creepy. And would he need to do that anyway? I thought the AIs had a neural interface into the net built in?
Also, that's how you do it. In a personal space, in private. I mean, yes, May had less choice than Winslow since he doesn't volunteer yet, but don't you think it's really rude to show up to another's place of work for minor personal things? Yeah, Winslow didn't think about it, but Hanners should know better. But then again she is used to the Coffee-of-Doom-style bring-your-drama-to-work-management, so maybe she doesn't?
I think that Shjade was trying to make the point that it's perhaps a bit weird to think that someone is nice, but that you'd have to somehow be really nice not to enact violence against Pintsize. Shjade was wondering why you would say that when violence is (obviously) not nice at all. I can see why you see the post as drawing a correlation between two unrelated events (I think, kinda), but I don't think that was intentional, hence the puzzled reaction.
I think that Shjade was trying to make the point that it's perhaps a bit weird to think that someone is nice, but that you'd have to somehow be really nice not to enact violence against Pintsize. Shjade was wondering why you would say that when violence is (obviously) not nice at all. I can see why you see the post as drawing a correlation between two unrelated events (I think, kinda), but I don't think that was intentional, hence the puzzled reaction.
This. I dunno where you learned to make logical leaps, SmilingCat, but you were way off. I wasn't saying he doesn't deserve to be yelled at unless he's abusive; I was pointing out that, what, five strips ago? people were practically sainting Winslow and demanding swift retribution against May for the horrible crime of being undeservingly rude to such a pristine angel, but now he's apparently also fine with getting his rocks off bullying weaker AI. And since OldGoat (the person who I asked that question) wasn't even one of the people who'd previously been so wounded on Winslow's behalf, it wasn't that serious a question to begin with.
If it doesn't resemble their argument, why would they assume I was talking about them? :?
I made a joke, not a curse besmirching your family name - or anyone's name in fact. You didn't need to dig up the horse to defend its honor. Chill.
Jesus. The tension level of the QC forum's a lot higher than I remember it.
Okay, stop. This is getting nobody anywhere and it is beyond tiresome. Agree to disagree or not, but this is far past enough.
Okay, stop. This is getting nobody anywhere and it is beyond tiresome. Agree to disagree or not, but this is far past enough.
This sounds like a reference to something, but I have no idea what. Could you please explain?
Ever tried Soylent Greens?