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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2017, 14:28

Title: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2017, 14:28
Okay, I know that I'm probably wide of the mark on my ideas but I'd be interested to see just which of these ideas (if any) is most popular with my fellow forumites.

I'd really like to have something at The Horrible Revelation: Either Brun, Elliott and Clinton revolving around each other or, alternately, Jeph introducing her new co-workers (who, as this is QC are quirky to the point of being outright weird). Of the two, I think that the latter has the most potential for comedy, especially if they all, by some fluke, all turn out to be connected in some way to others of the main cast. This, of course, lets us have some Penny and Wil interaction.

However, if I had the chance to ask for anything, you know what I'd really like? I'd like a 'slice of life' sequence following up Sam's interest in medieval martial arts. What makes a teenager girl want to be a sword-fighter? Was it just admiring Faye or is there something else that Sam is dealing with? Is she just a fan of Contest of Kingdoms (renamed to prevent Jeph facing copyright or trademark issues). This could lead to Sam running into Bubbles and/or Elliott at the gym (the tallest members of the cast and the shortest  human, just to make it difficult to frame scenes) and possibly SpookyBot having some agenda that they won't discus openly! :-o
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Sep 2017, 19:22
Comic's up. Looks like we're going with Officer Basilisk.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: miados on 10 Sep 2017, 19:36
Is it just me or does anyone else here want to have bubbles call the officer raccoon or something like that as a joke for when she trapped her in a trash can
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: badbum61 on 10 Sep 2017, 20:21
Quote from: Faye
I figured y'all had, like, an in-house repair guy or somethin'

Ah, remember the bad ol' days when Faye never used contractions, and her southern inflections only came out when she was drunk? Good times.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Sep 2017, 21:03
That was Faye's armor.

Faye knew exactly what Bubbles meant when she asked for help taking her armor off.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 10 Sep 2017, 21:22
And just what article did Bubbles read?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Sep 2017, 21:30
A hooded sweatshirt and sweatpants.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Sep 2017, 22:11
Why the sweats? Has Officer Basilisk been working out? Is this a case of athlete's foot?

Would synthetics envy our self-repair abilities?

An ancient slang term for a police officer was "flatfoot".

If Faye and Bubbles try to mess around, will Office Basilisk put her foot down?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: sitnspin on 10 Sep 2017, 23:18
Why envy our inefficient and limited self-repair feature when they can just do a full replacement? I went through the slow and painful repair process for a torn rotator cuff, I would have much preferred to be able to just go to a shop and get it repaired/replaced.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Storel on 10 Sep 2017, 23:18
And just what article did Bubbles read?

I don't know what article she read, but we have Word of Jeph that there is only one monthly magazine in QC's world, so it must have been in Prolapse Monthly. Who knew they even had articles about fashion?  :psyduck:

Oh! Presumably the same article that Officer Basilisk read...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2017, 23:28
Yes, thank you, Jeph. We knew that Melon was... unique in many ways. What's interesting is the implication: There are commercially available chassis that attract eccentric AIs, sort of like a Bohemian lifestyle and certain fashions. Or perhaps it is like cars that are known clunkers. Some people consider owning and driving them a sort of bizarre declaration of independence and individuality.

This is just me but I suspect that "he's a jerk" is a summary that applies to many of Roko's coworkers. I bet the smartasses like leaving cans of lube in her locker or calling her 'Plastic Policebot'. When she complains, she's told that it is 'good natured ribbing' that she needs to learn to roll with.

Bubbles's reaction to Faye's question in panel 1 is interesting. Just what was she reading that she should react like that? A guess: "So, you want to attract your human?" in this month's Robot Lifestyles and Celebrity Gossip.

Finally, Bubbles's way of describing Melon's relationship to her chassis is very interesting, isn't it? 'Inhabitant': To me, this feeds into my theory that the AIs view themselves as naked minds wearing the body they want or need for the day ahead. Yet this is contradicted by how attached to their chassis most AIs seem in terms of it defining them and expressing their identity. So, I conclude that 'inhabitant' is an example of a word in the QC universe that has a unique extra meaning in the context of AIs; specifically, an AI 'inhabits' its chassis instead of say 'is installed in' or 'is stored in', which sounds more technological but is subtly dehumanising.

In the end, the AIs all just want to be accepted as people, don't they? :-)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tlaloc on 10 Sep 2017, 23:49
Yeah I think that inhabitant makes sense. If you consider the chassis like a house then you get the naked mind dichotomy along with the attachment and image consciousness, I would like to have a home that represents who I am. Just a concept on how they could be attached without trying to just be people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: oeoek on 11 Sep 2017, 00:47
The Poll; I voted for house hunting. It's time Hanners imagined mansion (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2848) came about. The apartment is getting crowded. Besides, Brun needs to get something more then a couch to sleep on, Clinton might prefer to get more than a college dorm to receive possible lady companions (and he seems a little hesitant to go home these days), I have not figured out where exactly Momo sleeps, Hanners could ask Winslow to buttle her notes, and I am sure Sam would like to hang out with Faye more.

So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Sep 2017, 02:40
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

Or a stylishly modern two-level that is filled with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy-style home-help AIs (Juicers that want you to be happy and doors that practically bliss out at the prospect of being opened and closed, for example). That's before you get to the worryingly normal neighbours and the hidden surprises like the spooky atmosphere of the Old Massachusetts neighbourhood.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 11 Sep 2017, 02:58
Sorta hope we get a week with Basilisk, simply because we really have NO idea what goes on, police wise.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Mark7 on 11 Sep 2017, 03:29
Why do some robots even feel the need to wear clothes?

]Social acceptance? (I notice it's the humanoid chassis who tend to be clothed rather than the non or semi humanoid ones)

Robot junk is a thing?

Clothing has some benefit (beyond social acceptance) that we're not aware of?[/li][/list]
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Sep 2017, 03:38
@Mark7,

Social acceptance is certainly part of it. I suspect that AIs learn social conventions in the same way as humans and have the same "If I look like X then I need to follow the same behavioural conventions as X" instinct as humans do.

However, I don't think that we should rule out the possibility that some AIs wear clothes because they like them.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 11 Sep 2017, 04:37
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

Or a stylishly modern two-level that is filled with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy-style home-help AIs (Juicers that want you to be happy and doors that practically bliss out at the prospect of being opened and closed, for example). That's before you get to the worryingly normal neighbours and the hidden surprises like the spooky atmosphere of the Old Massachusetts neighbourhood.


Oh dear... Ben is gonna be the first against the wall when the revolution comes...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 11 Sep 2017, 04:38

Clothing has some benefit (beyond social acceptance) that we're not aware of?[/li][/list]


Don't underestimate the convenience of a pocket.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Sep 2017, 05:07
Weirdo or no, it seems that most of us like Melon.

Just went through the archive to get some references of Melon. How do her flip-flops (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3488) stay on? Is it velcro?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 11 Sep 2017, 05:18
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

I've got the perfect place. 115 Bridge Street (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/115-Bridge-St-Northampton-MA-01060/57023841_zpid/). A "beautifully restored Gothic Victorian home & carriage house circa 1856." 5 bedrooms, 5 baths. Only $1,105,000.

(click to show/hide)

Don't let the picture fool you; it's actually much creepier-looking in person than in the picture. House photographers lie.

Yes, I've been house-hunting lately. This is a bit out of our price range.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Sep 2017, 05:26
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

I've got the perfect place. 115 Bridge Street (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/115-Bridge-St-Northampton-MA-01060/57023841_zpid/). A "beautifully restored Gothic Victorian home & carriage house circa 1856." 5 bedrooms, 5 baths. Only $1,105,000.

(click to show/hide)

Don't let the picture fool you; it's actually much creepier-looking in person than in the picture. House photographers lie.

Yes, I've been house-hunting lately. This is a bit out of our price range.
At a guess, the paint is actually duller and cracks have been clone-tooled out, right?
Likely along with an odd tingle at the base of the back of your neck and the air feeling heavier when you walk up to it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: heyjames4 on 11 Sep 2017, 06:19
Why do robot wear clothes?

Same reason humans started wearing them, protection from the elements, and temperature regulation.

Synthskin can only do so much.

A lightweight cloth covering (such as active-wear) can keep dust, moisture, insects, and other irritants out of the delicate components, without trapping too much heat.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 11 Sep 2017, 07:16
the implication: There are commercially available chassis that attract eccentric AIs, sort of like a Bohemian lifestyle and certain fashions.
I think that was already strongly implied... http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3540
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 11 Sep 2017, 07:18
Not to mention help keep minor abrasions, irritants or stains away from the skin. Which even for android bodies is more difficult to replace in most cases than a shirt or pants. But yes it's mostly AI that seem acceptance among humans that seem to wear clothing, at least in our limited example. Bubbles is an excellent case study in this. Before meeting Faye she was content(ish) to just wear her armor. When she started trying to interact with humans more she started to pick up the habit of wearing clothes, even if it was a big overcoat. Now that she's out of her armor she's been wearing more clothes.

May is a good counter-point though. There does seem to be an expectation of more human-looking robots to wear clothing. May's expressed annoyance at having to spend her money on such, and she seems to wear her work uniform a lot outside of work. So I suspect she's only wearing clothing to fulfill some expected social or legal expectations for human looking chassis. Humanoid, but clearly not human chassis like Pintsize, Punchbot, Jeremy and Seven seem to not bother and are not expected to wear clothing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Sep 2017, 08:39
Organics wear clothes to feel better and to decorate themselves to impress others. Synthetics seem to share most or all of our emotional makeup.

It may also be a way of asserting dignity. Clothes assert "You need my permission to look at my body".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 11 Sep 2017, 08:59
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

I've got the perfect place. 115 Bridge Street (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/115-Bridge-St-Northampton-MA-01060/57023841_zpid/). A "beautifully restored Gothic Victorian home & carriage house circa 1856." 5 bedrooms, 5 baths. Only $1,105,000.

(click to show/hide)

Don't let the picture fool you; it's actually much creepier-looking in person than in the picture. House photographers lie.

Yes, I've been house-hunting lately. This is a bit out of our price range.
At a guess, the paint is actually duller and cracks have been clone-tooled out, right?
Likely along with an odd tingle at the base of the back of your neck and the air feeling heavier when you walk up to it.

You guys are daft! That's a GREAT looking house!

(I mean, okay, the bushes could be doing with getting hauled out, but other than that....)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Thrudd on 11 Sep 2017, 10:02
So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

I've got the perfect place. 115 Bridge Street (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/115-Bridge-St-Northampton-MA-01060/57023841_zpid/). A "beautifully restored Gothic Victorian home & carriage house circa 1856." 5 bedrooms, 5 baths. Only $1,105,000.

(click to show/hide)

Don't let the picture fool you; it's actually much creepier-looking in person than in the picture. House photographers lie.

Yes, I've been house-hunting lately. This is a bit out of our price range.
At a guess, the paint is actually duller and cracks have been clone-tooled out, right?
Likely along with an odd tingle at the base of the back of your neck and the air feeling heavier when you walk up to it.

You guys are daft! That's a GREAT looking house!

(I mean, okay, the bushes could be doing with getting hauled out, but other than that....)
Well there is the list of obvious and not well 'shoped out issues with the structure.
Did I miss anything?

Oh and I like Bushes and greenery around a building but not right up against it.
Only thing worse would be English ivy which is horrible to building surfaces even though it looks good and helps keep things cool in the summer.
No I am not a home inspector - Yes I have had to deal with such issues over the years.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Sep 2017, 11:16
(click to show/hide)

Don't let the picture fool you; it's actually much creepier-looking in person than in the picture. House photographers lie.
If they paint the place black with blood red trim, we can talk.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Sullivan on 11 Sep 2017, 15:53
Yeah I think that inhabitant makes sense. If you consider the chassis like a house then you get the naked mind dichotomy along with the attachment and image consciousness, I would like to have a home that represents who I am. Just a concept on how they could be attached without trying to just be people.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Bubbles made a generalization about the May-type chassis - that "it attracts similarly strange inhabitants"? How many other inhabitants of May-type chassis has Bubbles dealt with?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Kugai on 11 Sep 2017, 15:54
Be good if the wind up getting the Police Repair Contract
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Sep 2017, 16:08
Does anyone else find it interesting that Bubbles made a generalization about the May-type chassis - that "it attracts similarly strange inhabitants"? How many other inhabitants of May-type chassis has Bubbles dealt with?
Melon and May look quite a bit alike, and she probably encountered all kinds, meat and metal, in the military.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: brasca on 11 Sep 2017, 19:29
The Poll; I voted for house hunting. It's time Hanners imagined mansion (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2848) came about. The apartment is getting crowded. Besides, Brun needs to get something more then a couch to sleep on, Clinton might prefer to get more than a college dorm to receive possible lady companions (and he seems a little hesitant to go home these days), I have not figured out where exactly Momo sleeps, Hanners could ask Winslow to buttle her notes, and I am sure Sam would like to hang out with Faye more.

So yeah, a huge, slightly derelict mansion with a touch of Lovecraft or the Adams family might be in order. The right sort of building for a closed off wing...

I don't know if Hannelore has come far along to live in an old house that has accumulated decades worth of microbes and bacteria. 

Having just slammed my pinky toe into a table leg I'm now envious of robot feet too. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Sep 2017, 20:04
Jeph said once they don't feel pain the way we do. They must have damage sensors of some kind but apparently a readout from the damage sensors doesn't hurt.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 11 Sep 2017, 20:25
'Admit de-feet.'
 :lol: :laugh: :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 11 Sep 2017, 20:27
Feedback sensors, thermocouples, electrical load sensors, stress gauges, all those would combine to form some sort of physical awareness.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Sep 2017, 21:05
Faye and Roko are pitching each other shit - that means a friendship is brewing. 

Geez, does an AI get to claim something like physician/patient privilege communications with their chassis tech?  Faye is fulfilling the role of Roko's podiatrist!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Sep 2017, 21:14
Does anyone else find it interesting that Bubbles made a generalization about the May-type chassis - that "it attracts similarly strange inhabitants"? How many other inhabitants of May-type chassis has Bubbles dealt with?
Melon and May look quite a bit alike, and she probably encountered all kinds, meat and metal, in the military.
Three words, 'underground robot fights'.

Also, it looks like there's a few different phalange analogues under the synth skin. I guess Roko's chassis has something akin to toes, just not separated externally.
I'd be curious to see a schematic of the internals.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SmilingCat on 11 Sep 2017, 22:02
Organics wear clothes to feel better and to decorate themselves to impress others. Synthetics seem to share most or all of our emotional makeup.

It may also be a way of asserting dignity. Clothes assert "You need my permission to look at my body".

And to look nice. I never even knew I had a thing for robotic purple women in activewear until today...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Sep 2017, 23:23
I'm trying to work out 'psychosomatic' in the context of a robot chassis and its interaction with a software AI. What she's saying is that she hasn't got sensitive feet, rather that her algorithm has unconsciously developed an autonomous reaction to her chassis reporting a certain type of contact with the derma there. There is no cause for her to want this. I think it is quite possible that she has just known lots of humans with that quirk and her subconscious processes have decided that this is something that 'people do' and that, therefore, she needs to do.

Jeph is establishing a huge loophole in AI psychology and physiology with this strip. How so? Remember Bubbles telling Faye that she wasn't ticklish because she hadn't downloaded the right software? I can't see Roko having downloaded software to give her sensitive feet so this establishes that the software isn't necessary if the AI wants to have that reaction on a certain subconscious level. Jeph is now setting the precedent that any one of the synthetic characters can have anthropomimetic reactions to touch and other stimuli, irrespective of physical construction because their processes feel that they need it. The narrative and characterisation uses are obvious and do not need to be reiterated.

Meanwhile... am I the only one who noticed that Roko used the same counter-argument that Sam once used when accused of blushing and being shy? I'm thinking that, like many AIs, Roko is younger than her outer presentation would normally suggest and, like a lot of 'teenagers', is still learning the subtleties of social interaction. Doing your job with its myriad rules is easy; the looser and more amorphous world of casual social interaction is much harder to learn.

Finally, I'm really enjoying 'Faye Whitaker - Robot Medic'. She has a gentleness and sympathy with her 'patients' sometimes that makes me wonder if, in a different universe, she might have ended up in some healthcare profession (although, arguably, that's what's happened anyway).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Doc on 12 Sep 2017, 00:56
tic.kle tic.kle tic.kle
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Sullivan on 12 Sep 2017, 02:56
Does anyone else find it interesting that Bubbles made a generalization about the May-type chassis - that "it attracts similarly strange inhabitants"? How many other inhabitants of May-type chassis has Bubbles dealt with?
Melon and May look quite a bit alike, and she probably encountered all kinds, meat and metal, in the military.
Three words, 'underground robot fights'.
Sure, but it's tough to believe that either the military or the underground fights saw a lot of chassis that lost parts as easily as May's. That would seem to put one at a disadvantage in either setting.

Quote
Also, it looks like there's a few different phalange analogues under the synth skin. I guess Roko's chassis has something akin to toes, just not separated externally.
I'd be curious to see a schematic of the internals.
Probably, since toes are an important part of how we walk, and in general the AIs' human-ish chassis have to be built to walk on the same sort of terrain that humans had already adapted to themselves.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Sep 2017, 03:05
Also, it looks like there's a few different phalange analogues under the synth skin. I guess Roko's chassis has something akin to toes, just not separated externally.
I'd be curious to see a schematic of the internals.

Probably, since toes are an important part of how we walk, and in general the AIs' human-ish chassis have to be built to walk on the same sort of terrain that humans had already adapted to themselves.

FWIW, I think that both Roko and Bubbles have at least three individual articulated spars within a flexible toe 'sock' that enable them to adjust their ground contact on uneven terrain or adjust their balance whilst walking on an incline. There is no real reason to have externally separated toes so long as the sock can adjust its lateral angle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Akima on 12 Sep 2017, 05:36
Certainly Roko's foot in the third panel in the strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3567) flexes as if it had toe "bones" within the sock of her skin. The toe of her foot looks squarer than a human foot, though, so she might have the equivalent of big toes on both sides of her foot, for example.

A thing that Officer Roko Basilisk has, that no other robot in the strip apparently possesses, is a surname. I wonder if this was a requirement of police department bureaucracy (or just Jeph's word-play).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 12 Sep 2017, 07:02
Could even be something she adopted because cops just generally have two names.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 12 Sep 2017, 07:04
That is an interesting point. If I'm not mistaken, Momo, in her resume, listed a serial number as well.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: tustin2121 on 12 Sep 2017, 08:31
Jeph is establishing a huge loophole in AI psychology and physiology with this strip. How so? Remember Bubbles telling Faye that she wasn't ticklish because she hadn't downloaded the right software? I can't see Roko having downloaded software to give her sensitive feet so this establishes that the software isn't necessary if the AI wants to have that reaction on a certain subconscious level. Jeph is now setting the precedent that any one of the synthetic characters can have anthropomimetic reactions to touch and other stimuli, irrespective of physical construction because their processes feel that they need it. The narrative and characterisation uses are obvious and do not need to be reiterated.

Why can't you see her downloading sensitive feet software? What if she wanted to explore foot fetishes? What if she needed sensitive feet for her job, like she needed to feel the ground for climbing or something? Maybe she just really likes feeling her shoes? I think you're discounting the idea that she didn't want sensitive feet too quickly (particularly when it comes to the hidden kink possibility). And it's a more plausible explanation that she wanted it but doesn't want to admit she wanted it than upending established precedent about downloading these things.

(Also, hi, I was lurking and I stopped lurking to say this. Bye again.  :-)/)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Sep 2017, 08:35
@tustin2121,

Simple: She said it was psychosomatic. If she actually had the software installed, she'd likely have said so before making some comment about 'sensitivity settings'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: oddtail on 12 Sep 2017, 08:40
BenRG: I just had a thought - what if she's so defensive about it because she's lying, and she actually DOES have a sensory/physical reaction? If it weren't the case, wouldn't she just casually say it? It looks like something she's embarrassed of. Granted, it could be for any number of reasons - it could be that some AI treat reactions similar to human physiological responses as icky or improper. It could be that they on some level feel their reactions are not "genuine".

But "she installed the proper software and she's embarrassed about it" is also a valid possibility. Not necessarily related to foot fetishes, like tustin2121 mentions, it could be something else. But, it *could* be that she's hiding something, judging by her extreme reaction and body language.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Sep 2017, 09:24
Roko needs sensitive tootsies for sneak mode/raccoon details.  It's doubtful Bubbles's squad leader assigned her any primarily stealth jobs.  She has, however, recently demonstrated a practiced proficiency at stuffing doors (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3564).  If this was one of her squad roles, overly sensitive feet would be a liability.

Bot or not, Trooper Basilisk presents as female and is going to experience the pressure all women in male dominated fields feel to avoid being seen as sensitive.  (Hmmm....Faye has that "tough as nails" thing going to, albeit for different reasons.) 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: zisraelsen on 12 Sep 2017, 10:40
I also don't think we should discount the possibility that AI do have psychosomatic responses. AI are emergent technology, so we're not really sure how they work, in-universe. It seems likely that whatever weird wire-crossing in the brain causes psychosomatic responses in humans would be possible in AI as well.  Granted, the bots have more control over what actual input they receive, hence Bubbles not being ticklish due to lack of software, but i don't think that prevents psychosomatic responses developing independently.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 12 Sep 2017, 10:58
I also don't think we should discount the possibility that AI do have psychosomatic responses.
One could describe psychosomatic responses as being unexpected and unplanned responses to inputs. That's scarcely a new problem in software. It seems QC universe feasible that a combination of foot position, touch and so on could via a software problem produce an unplanned reaction. I also find it easy to imagine the AIs being happier to describe such as pyscho-somatic rather than as bugs.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: heyjames4 on 12 Sep 2017, 11:37
The tickle response, without software install, might itself be the "...hitch" for which Officer Basilisk is seeking analysis & repair.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Sep 2017, 13:35
>AI are emergent technology, so we're not really sure how they work, in-universe

We know that however they work it will have been chosen to be funny.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: zisraelsen on 12 Sep 2017, 13:37
Yea, it will probably be heavily dependent on butts.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: A Duck on 12 Sep 2017, 14:30
Well, AI have actual libidos, to the point some chassis options have fully functioning genitals. But they still DO have that even when they're not equipped with said genitals (May)

I think a tickle response is minimal, compared to that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 12 Sep 2017, 16:14
The term psychosomatic describes symptoms caused or aggrevated by the mind. In Officer Basilisk's case, the over-sensitive response is presumably some kind of a learned response, and so this meets the definition. Installing software is just another way of learning the response, analogous to the difference between learning how to play piano by practicing, and learning it by downloading the appropriate software. So whether the response is learned or installed, it still counts as psychosomatic.

How she learned the response is not obvious, except that I think that the idea that her "processors wanted it" makes no sense to me.

The idea that software isn't necessary to learn a subconscious reaction is not really surprising to me, given that we already know that at least some AIs mimic human ways of acquiring all kinds of knowledge and skills, such as by reading books.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Kugai on 12 Sep 2017, 17:16
I read 'sensitive' as Ticklish   :claireface: :police:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SmilingCat on 12 Sep 2017, 17:53
How she learned the response is not obvious, except that I think that the idea that her "processors wanted it" makes no sense to me.

Until proven otherwise, I choose to assume she was conducting an undercover sting of Coffee of Doom and was attacked by spiders in the basement. Her reaction is the same reason she doesn't have visible toes. The scurrying and nibbling of the spiders gave her a psychosomatic response, and she had her toes removed or covered because she couldn't get the icky feeling of spider guts between her toes out of her head.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 12 Sep 2017, 18:18
I am reminded of the Pobble who has no toes.

I am surprised that Faye didn't ask if Roko has done a malware scan recently...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 12 Sep 2017, 21:35
Okay, so Roko is adorable. I really hope she joins the main cast, which is looking pretty likely. Would love to see her meet Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: brasca on 12 Sep 2017, 21:47
If all Bubbles and Faye got is a road flare as a substitute for a candle does that mean they actually used those candles they got from May and Momo? 

If Roko is this difficult of a patient maybe the person who does their repairs isn't so bad and just has really poor bedside manners. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Freelance_Physicist on 12 Sep 2017, 22:00
This latest comic leads me to believe that Basilisk is an uploaded human consciousness, not an AI. She has been hiding this because she doesn't want to be known as Robocop. She never liked that movie.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SmilingCat on 12 Sep 2017, 23:14
This latest comic leads me to believe that Basilisk is an uploaded human consciousness, not an AI. She has been hiding this because she doesn't want to be known as Robocop. She never liked that movie.

That would be interesting, though I figure such a significant jump in technology would be pretty noteworthy. I don't think "not wanting to be called Robocop" is sufficient excuse for concealing it. Maybe avoiding public fear over that level of transhumanism, though. There are still prejudices in this universe against AIs, and as indicated by Claire, mankind hasn't overcome their biases against transgender folk (presumably racism is still around, since the universe is more or less ours with robots). Blending humans and AIs like that is just a whole other level of differences for the ignorant to hate.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Sep 2017, 23:19
I've got to say that I do understand Roko's fear here. It's obvious that many AIs really do see their chassis as 'my body' and have the same fear response any organic would have to the concept of someone opening it up, even though the details are slightly different. No-one is entirely happy to see their inner bits.

So, what I'm wondering is whether Faye and Bubbles need to start stocking distraction methods. Possibly even use certain scents to induce a somatic trance in their 'patients'. If nothing else, what would be the AI equivalent of giving the customer a lollypop for being a good little bot whilst the doctor looked at you?

How she learned the response is not obvious, except that I think that the idea that her "processors wanted it" makes no sense to me.

You misread. I said 'processes'. In other words, the person's subconscious mind decided that that they need it. This happens in humans all the time; why shouldn't it happen in AIs, whom it is very clear were created to imitate how the human mind words very closely?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 13 Sep 2017, 00:02
You misread. I said 'processes'. In other words, the person's subconscious mind decided that that they need it. This happens in humans all the time;

Does it? You mean psychosomatic conditions are a result of the subconscious mind "wanting"/"needing" it? This is news to me. Can you provide a link? I'd like to read about it.

Edit: Of course you can't, it's bullshit.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tlaloc on 13 Sep 2017, 00:35
If all Bubbles and Faye got is a road flare as a substitute for a candle does that mean they actually used those candles they got from May and Momo? 

If Roko is this difficult of a patient maybe the person who does their repairs isn't so bad and just has really poor bedside manners.

Mailman wearing cologne probably wouldn't help anyway
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 13 Sep 2017, 00:37
They can always send for tea.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: DannyboyTheDane on 13 Sep 2017, 02:33
Was Bubbles so flustered by Faye's comment on her clothing that she decided to strip down? Although it hasn't been presented as completely analogous, my instinctual impression is that she's standing around in her underwear right now ... Great, now I'm flustered!

EDIT: Also, I hadn't drawn any connection between Melon's and May's chassis being similar; I simply read it as Bubbles remarking on Melon being eccentric.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Sep 2017, 03:35
This latest comic leads me to believe that Basilisk is an uploaded human consciousness, not an AI. She has been hiding this because she doesn't want to be known as Robocop. She never liked that movie.

You know what, that is an excellent little theory!
Have a gold star!

http://www.envirocarems.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Gold-Star.jpg

(Christ! That's huge! Modified to a link!!)

Modified AGAIN cos I just had another thought which adds to the theory...

Roko... (Rock-oh)

BUT it could also be read as: RoKo  (Row, Co.)  (Row. Co. = Robo Cop) !!!!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Sep 2017, 03:38
They can always send for tea.

Yup - my first thought too!
Tea should ALWAYS be sent for...

(or should that be scent for)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Sep 2017, 05:14
Was Bubbles so flustered by Faye's comment on her clothing that she decided to strip down? Although it hasn't been presented as completely analogous, my instinctual impression is that she's standing around in her underwear right now ... Great, now I'm flustered!

EDIT: Also, I hadn't drawn any connection between Melon's and May's chassis being similar; I simply read it as Bubbles remarking on Melon being eccentric.

Bubbles just didn't want to get her new clothes dirty at work.

And I don't think that May and Melon have the same chassis. Based on what Bubbles said, Melon chose her chassis, and I doubt she'd choose one that's been called an "AnthroPC Reformchassis (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3035)" as May's was.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: heyjames4 on 13 Sep 2017, 05:57
Scented candles, or any open flame, are counter-indicated in an environment where they'll be welding. And the aromatic oils in the air may interfere with sensitive components. Steeped tea close up is probably for the best.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: kallibean on 13 Sep 2017, 07:00
The fact that when we see Bubbles with tea it's in some kind of fantasy (e.g. background replaced, images not present in that setting), and now a candle is being asked for during what is akin to day-surgery, for anxiety (similar to how people may ask for sedatives for blood draws etc), can we assume that scents have the function of anaesthesia for AI chassis?

Otherwise, one would wonder, with all this about programs for senses, why it seems significantly common for AIs have this kind of sensitivity (Winslow's new chassis has it, even).

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Sep 2017, 07:10
The fact that when we see Bubbles with tea it's in some kind of fantasy (e.g. background replaced, images not present in that setting), and now a candle is being asked for during what is akin to day-surgery, for anxiety (similar to how people may ask for sedatives for blood draws etc), can we assume that scents have the function of anaesthesia for AI chassis?

According to Bubbles, every scent provokes its own unique sensory reaction. Hannelore is adept at blending teas that create a strong hallucinogenic effect. However, yes, I imagine that there are some blends that create a feedback loop which, until it fades out, induces a somatic state where the central processor is unable to process sensory data and the AI is in state not unlike sleep mode.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Sep 2017, 08:33
The fact that when we see Bubbles with tea it's in some kind of fantasy (e.g. background replaced, images not present in that setting), and now a candle is being asked for during what is akin to day-surgery, for anxiety (similar to how people may ask for sedatives for blood draws etc), can we assume that scents have the function of anaesthesia for AI chassis?

According to Bubbles, every scent provokes its own unique sensory reaction. Hannelore is adept at blending teas that create a strong hallucinogenic effect. However, yes, I imagine that there are some blends that create a feedback loop which, until it fades out, induces a somatic state where the central processor is unable to process sensory data and the AI is in state not unlike sleep mode.

I think the only problem is that Roko doesn't want to *see* her parts come off, not that any anaesthesia is required.
Tea would be the perfect solution... still open to outside stimulus, but seeing nothing but rainbows...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Sep 2017, 11:28
Welcome, new person!

****

So, she can't take foot-removal in stride?

****

More seriously, is this telling us something about how AIs interpret their bodies? If dismemberment is that disturbing to them then they must have a more human-like attachment to their bodies, as opposed to treating them as a change of clothes.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Roborat on 13 Sep 2017, 11:41
I  love Bubbles in the last panel.  I had to chortle softly (I am at work), over the road flare and warranty bit.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: hedgie on 13 Sep 2017, 13:44
More seriously, is this telling us something about how AIs interpret their bodies? If dismemberment is that disturbing to them then they must have a more human-like attachment to their bodies, as opposed to treating them as a change of clothes.

The view AIs have of their chassis are probably much like the taste of Soylent Green, it probably varies from person to person.  It also may have to do with the way that the chassis is constructed.  Pintsize doesn't seem to object to being dismembered on a regular basis, although he's probably a pretty extreme oddity in most respects (I only brought him up because his limbs seem designed to be detachable).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Sep 2017, 13:47
So, she can't take foot-removal in stride?
[[[GROAN]]]
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Sep 2017, 16:30
Roko appears to be the odd one out on this. Most of the other robots we've seen are not as bothered by having parts taken off. Pintsize seems to seek it out. May was more bothered by the fact that with her arm falling off it was difficult to work rather than horror. Melon launcher her tuchus as some sort of a lark. The robots at the fighting ring faced dismemberment regularly, some of them with a smile. So far only Roko has shown distress of being disassembled, even for requested repair work.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Kugai on 13 Sep 2017, 16:53
Seems that Roko  has some trust issues.  would be interesting to find out just what caused that or whether it's just because she's a Police AI.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Storel on 13 Sep 2017, 17:07
I've got to say that I do understand Roko's fear here. It's obvious that many AIs really do see their chassis as 'my body' and have the same fear response any organic would have to the concept of someone opening it up, even though the details are slightly different. No-one is entirely happy to see their inner bits.

So, what I'm wondering is whether Faye and Bubbles need to start stocking distraction methods. Possibly even use certain scents to induce a somatic trance in their 'patients'. If nothing else, what would be the AI equivalent of giving the customer a lollypop for being a good little bot whilst the doctor looked at you?

Can't Roko just look away or close her eyes while her foot is being detached? That's what I do any time I'm having blood drawn or receiving a vaccination shot: I feel disturbed when I see needles penetrating my skin, so I just look away. No unconsciousness or hallucinations required.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 13 Sep 2017, 17:39
Certainly Roko's foot in the third panel in the strip (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3567) flexes as if it had toe "bones" within the sock of her skin. The toe of her foot looks squarer than a human foot, though, so she might have the equivalent of big toes on both sides of her foot, for example.

A thing that Officer Roko Basilisk has, that no other robot in the strip apparently possesses, is a surname. I wonder if this was a requirement of police department bureaucracy (or just Jeph's word-play).

Good catch.

I wonder if the in universe explanation has to do with cops calling each other by their last names (or is that just on tv)? If so, perhaps she picked 'Basilisk' because she thought it sounded cool/badass/authoritative. Which could also back up BenRG's assertion that Roko has the psychological maturity of a teenager.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 13 Sep 2017, 18:22
Calling it now:
The problem is an unpopped popcorn kernel that has found its way into unbidden territory.
(not like that's ever been a problem for me...)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 13 Sep 2017, 21:00
Can't Roko just look away or close her eyes while her foot is being detached? That's what I do any time I'm having blood drawn or receiving a vaccination shot: I feel disturbed when I see needles penetrating my skin, so I just look away. No unconsciousness or hallucinations required.

Usually I have to look, because most of the time I don't feel the needles go in.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Narrow Century on 13 Sep 2017, 23:08
The whole "insurance" thing raises an interesting question about the setting. Is chassis insurance provided by your job, like health insurance, or do AI's need to cover it themselves, like car insurance? On the one hand, for many working AI's, their chassis is much more important to their ability to function than a car is to a human, but on the other hand, a chassis malfunctioning isn't likely to be an existential threat in the same way that a health crisis is.

So, two questions for the crowd.

1. How SHOULD this work, if you were in a position to dictate it?
2. How DOES it work in the setting, by your estimation/cynicism?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Sep 2017, 23:25
Okay, so now we have it confirmed: Roko's problem with mechanics is actually some manner of anxiety issue bordering on being a kind of robo-hypochondria. Like Hannelore, she always imagines the worst and literally has a panic attack at the thought of medical treatment. It's a time when you need calm, professional treatment, which is where Bubbles comes in.

Yeah, if Roko is a fan of animé, it's unlikely that she'd assume that the big, heavily-built one would also be smart. It isn't a slur on Bubbles, it's just cultural programming of a less literal kind!

Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day hearing: "It is true. I do not sparkle." in my mental voice for Bubbles, which is kind of like Bea Arthur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bea_Arthur) (Fun fact: Bea was a Marine in WW2!)!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 13 Sep 2017, 23:40
This latest comic leads me to believe that Basilisk is an uploaded human consciousness, not an AI. She has been hiding this because she doesn't want to be known as Robocop. She never liked that movie.

You know what, that is an excellent little theory!
Have a gold star!

http://www.envirocarems.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Gold-Star.jpg

(Christ! That's huge! Modified to a link!!)

Modified AGAIN cos I just had another thought which adds to the theory...

Roko... (Rock-oh)

BUT it could also be read as: RoKo  (Row, Co.)  (Row. Co. = Robo Cop) !!!!

Or maybe RoKo = 'Rotating Agent Koko'.

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/a65068eff60d607af2ad5ff494ede299/tumblr_n4hxvs4pzn1qkc6bso1_1280.png)

EDIT: whoops, that's pretty big. Resized it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: brasca on 13 Sep 2017, 23:45
Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day hearing: "It is true. I do not sparkle." in my mental voice for Bubbles, which is kind of like Bea Arthur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bea_Arthur) (Fun fact: Bea was a Marine in WW2!)!

Really I imagine her voice is similar to R Dorthy Waynewright's voice actor, Lia Sargent or Gwendoline Christie. 

While I do believe Bubbles is the brains of this outfit I think her military experience makes her highly adept with bureaucracy and red tape so handling the paperwork is easy for her.     
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tlaloc on 14 Sep 2017, 00:38
I had the impression that RoKo underestimated Bubbles because she did not expect the AI in a Human-AI partnership to take the lead, look at most examples we have and you have a fair argument that while AI have agency they're somewhat dependant to some degree on their people. They are all companions in some aspect, even Pintsize.

Bubbles breaks this trend, being quite autonomous and choosing the union with Faye because she wishes to.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 14 Sep 2017, 01:02
This is a bit of a sidetrack, but has anyone yet brought up the idea that Roko's name is most likely a reference to Roko's Basilisk (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk)? I feel as though someone must have mentioned it and I've just missed it, but a search bore no fruit. This idea was mentioned on the QC wiki.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Sep 2017, 01:29
The whole "insurance" thing raises an interesting question about the setting. Is chassis insurance provided by your job, like health insurance, or do AI's need to cover it themselves, like car insurance? On the one hand, for many working AI's, their chassis is much more important to their ability to function than a car is to a human, but on the other hand, a chassis malfunctioning isn't likely to be an existential threat in the same way that a health crisis is.

So, two questions for the crowd.

1. How SHOULD this work, if you were in a position to dictate it?
2. How DOES it work in the setting, by your estimation/cynicism?

Welcome, new person with thoughtful questions!

1. I haven't even figured out how health insurance for humans should work. It should be universal enough that there will never again be a case like May's.
2. Everything related to synthetics in the QC universe is a work in progress. I expect that chassis insurance is a set of hasty improvisations being changed and fixed rapidly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Sep 2017, 01:56

More seriously, is this telling us something about how AIs interpret their bodies? If dismemberment is that disturbing to them then they must have a more human-like attachment to their bodies, as opposed to treating them as a change of clothes.

There are those people who are overly attached to their automobiles.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Sep 2017, 02:00
I haven't even figured out how health insurance for humans should work. It should be universal enough that there will never again be a case like May's.

{political digression}
Framing your question in terms of "insurance" is already implicitly limiting it to a commercial transaction and thus subtly sidelining the possibility of fully social healthcare.
{/political digression}
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Sep 2017, 02:13
So Fay, you are, I fear, just the human face of the operation.

Think she's going to have to work on her customer care though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Sep 2017, 02:14
So, two questions for the crowd.

1. How SHOULD this work, if you were in a position to dictate it?
2. How DOES it work in the setting, by your estimation/cynicism?
In summary? I think that Roko will prefer to pay Bubbles and Faye cash-in-hand rather than wait months for the Massachusetts State Police's internal bureaucracy to audit and approve her claim.
[/list]
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Sep 2017, 03:08
I had the impression that RoKo underestimated Bubbles because she did not expect the AI in a Human-AI partnership to take the lead, look at most examples we have and you have a fair argument that while AI have agency they're somewhat dependant to some degree on their people. They are all companions in some aspect, even Pintsize.

Bubbles breaks this trend, being quite autonomous and choosing the union with Faye because she wishes to.
On the other hand, you do have Corpse Witch, as an earlier entrepreneurial example, and Punchbot, as a CPA. Roko herself seems fairly independent. Now, of course, there is the fact, that she's only ever met Bubbles before she took her armour off, when Faye was standing up for her, and she was heavily limited by the CW's proverbial stick behind the door.

Part of this view might just be that we're fairly limited in the AI's we've met up to now.

{political digression}
Framing your question in terms of "insurance" is already implicitly limiting it to a commercial transaction and thus subtly sidelining the possibility of fully social healthcare.
{/political digression}

I think it depends on how you frame it exactly. Where I live, there's the state's health insurance, which is run by the state, and a number of not for profit organisations. Partially it's a holdover from earlier union efforts.

As for chassis insurance, I think we need to first solve the issue of who is the legal owner of the chassis in question. It's not that hard to imagine a corporation investing in a certain type of chassis, and putting it to its (AI) workers disposition. Or indeed, a human companion buying one for their AI companion. Add to that that it seems very easy to switch chassis,...
AI are independent people with civic rights, that much we know. On what basis do they have those rights? Is it on the basis of consciousness, i.e. just their mind? If a certain chassis were to be coupled to make up the individual AI citizen, that would be problematic, and more than one of our characters is potentially in trouble.

Insurance efficiency, considering the chassis to be essentially disposable, I should think is much the same as with a car insurance.

Now, another question; how much is Union Robotics going to charge officer Basilisk, if the issue turns out to trace back to a certain raccoon incident?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Sep 2017, 03:33
I think that Roko will prefer to pay Bubbles and Faye cash-in-hand rather than wait months for the Massachusetts State Police's internal bureaucracy to audit and approve her claim.
I doubt they would approve her claim. They'd say she should have used the in-house jerk.
In this country 'cash-in-hand' implies a transaction that the tax man will be unaware of and not receive his share of.  Is that the case over there? I can certainly imagine Roko paying for the work out of personal funds, but having it off the books seems unlikely.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Sep 2017, 03:39
@JimC,

In the terms I mean, I'm saying that Roko would prefer to deal directly with Universal without involving the MSP in any way. In tax terms, figuring out their tax liability on the income will be something for Bubbles and Faye to later (likely with Punchbot's help).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tlaloc on 14 Sep 2017, 04:31
I had the impression that RoKo underestimated Bubbles because she did not expect the AI in a Human-AI partnership to take the lead, look at most examples we have and you have a fair argument that while AI have agency they're somewhat dependant to some degree on their people. They are all companions in some aspect, even Pintsize.

Bubbles breaks this trend, being quite autonomous and choosing the union with Faye because she wishes to.
On the other hand, you do have Corpse Witch, as an earlier entrepreneurial example, and Punchbot, as a CPA. Roko herself seems fairly independent. Now, of course, there is the fact, that she's only ever met Bubbles before she took her armour off, when Faye was standing up for her, and she was heavily limited by the CW's proverbial stick behind the door.

Part of this view might just be that we're fairly limited in the AI's we've met up to now.

I'm going to point out that I refer to a Human-AI partnership. Corpse Witch appeared to work alone or exclusively with other AI
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Sep 2017, 06:41
>I think we need to first solve the issue of who is the legal owner of the chassis in question.

Answering a question about Momo's expensive new chassis, Jeph said AIs are the legal owners of the bodies they inhabit.

Nuclear submarines and space stations are likely exceptions.

If an AI establishes ownership by downloading, that would rule out some possibly useful business models like chassis leasing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 14 Sep 2017, 06:56
One difference I can think of between health insurance for us meatbags and chassis insurance is that the level of insurance you'd need for a chassis would presumably depend on the value and complexity of the chassis that you have chosen for yourself. So in that sense, it is more similar to car insurance, but in terms of quality of life, it is more similar to health insurance.

The most comparable thing for humans I can think of would be prosthetic insurance. In both cases, the insured item is expensive and valuable, is a very personal item, and is critical for quality of life. The main difference is that prosthetic insurance has a smaller market.

So, I speculate that there would be private insurance options, and that government would offer financial assistance if you qualify for it and so long as you choice of chassis is not a luxury item and is reasonable value for money. In the US, I wouldn't be surprised if there were employer-provided chassis insurance for certain jobs.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 14 Sep 2017, 06:57
Awww WE think you sparkle, Bubbles!  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Sep 2017, 07:21
>I think we need to first solve the issue of who is the legal owner of the chassis in question.

Answering a question about Momo's expensive new chassis, Jeph said AIs are the legal owners of the bodies they inhabit.

Nuclear submarines and space stations are likely exceptions.

If an AI establishes ownership by downloading, that would rule out some possibly useful business models like chassis leasing.

Personally, I know it's word of Jeph, but I think it might be problematic. There's a number of AI's we've seen passing by - some of them solely to threaten Pintsize after trolling them - that should, if not in active service, at least be disarmed. It makes sense to transfer ownership - in partial payment, I should think - up to a certain type of chassis. Also, suppose a fighter jet, or, to take a non-military example, space ship decides to settle in the low stress life of a toaster, what happens to the chassis they leave? Having it as their property might be seen as fair pay - but there's a point where that becomes disproportionate to the services rendered.

Usufruct, in some cases, seems a more likely option than downright ownership. But then, it would be useful to further explore the genesis of AI within the QC world, and how and where they are. For instance, are all (free) instances of AI necessarily embodied? If they could freely move over a network, that could make ownership of the chassis fairly difficult. I know, we haven't seen an example of that in story yet.

Come to think of it, there's a similar problem, if you will, as with the emancipation of slaves, with the one difference that in this case, the consciousness may in fact be separated from the body. And the added difficulty that in some cases, it literally may take the entire technical infrastructure of a company out. If we connect that with the issue of possible reparations for the time in bondage, there's also the issue of how to determine - again - the sentience of AI, and how they emerged.

Mind, I'm not arguing against the ownership of the chassis - I'm just pointing out how there might be issues and constraints related to that.

On an unrelated note, I wonder if Bubbles puts the paperwork somewhere Faye can access it as well, or if she just keeps it in her memory.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Sep 2017, 07:35
There are some interesting parallells in McCaffrey's Brain ship series, and the virtual debt slavery of the shell people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Sep 2017, 10:36
Roko is the only publicly employed AI we've really become acquainted with (it appears Station works for Ellicott-Chatham Enterprises rather than the Air Force), so she really doesn't give us much to go on as far as robots with surnames.  As for her having an immature personality, MSP would not have hired her - they'd be looking for someone uncommonly level-headed.

We don't know much either about AI's off-duty living arrangements although it stands to reason that their space requirements would be much smaller than a meatperson's, and dialog in several strips confirms this.  Those we've been introduced to all live with humans, but this may be a holdover from the days when AIs were all property rather than persons in their own right.  Roko however, as well as a last name, seems to have an apartment (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414) (although she may share it with a coworker, be they meat or metal).  Is she in the vanguard of AIs living autonomously, an early adopter of a totally independant AI lifestyle?  There's lots of fuel for speculation there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: SotFX on 14 Sep 2017, 11:26
>I think we need to first solve the issue of who is the legal owner of the chassis in question.

Answering a question about Momo's expensive new chassis, Jeph said AIs are the legal owners of the bodies they inhabit.

Nuclear submarines and space stations are likely exceptions.

If an AI establishes ownership by downloading, that would rule out some possibly useful business models like chassis leasing.

I would assume that large vessels and the like would be treated as more akin to a residence/workplace combination. Some places might even have large numbers of AI coworkers there that handle their own jobs and are all running there on the same network in, comparatively close quarters with each having their duties and specialties.

On another note, Bubbles cannot be a sparkling vampire or fae now along with an AI it seems...so no potential real unicorns there since she doesn't sparkle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Kugai on 14 Sep 2017, 12:15
I think Bubbles underestimates her sparkle.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Sep 2017, 12:18
"Never would've guessed" is emphatic phrasing.

Instead of the 50-50 chance a priori that Bubbles was the brains of the outfit, Officer Basilisk had not even considered it.

Something interesting is going on. If she's prejudiced against veterans then she's going to have a rough time in a police department. If she was just that impressed with Faye's brains, that would be a benign explanation(*). It's also conceivable that Officer Basilisk has internalized some anti-AI prejudices. That in turn could either be the surrounding toxic culture (Akima called endemic racist ideas "smog") or the result of her job constantly showing her AIs stupid enough to commit crimes and to get caught.

(*) Her sister did call Faye the brains of the family.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Case on 14 Sep 2017, 12:18
One difference I can think of between health insurance for us meatbags and chassis insurance is that the level of insurance you'd need for a chassis would presumably depend on the value and complexity of the chassis that you have chosen for yourself. So in that sense, it is more similar to car insurance, but in terms of quality of life, it is more similar to health insurance. The most comparable thing for humans I can think of would be prosthetic insurance.

>I think we need to first solve the issue of who is the legal owner of the chassis in question. Answering a question about Momo's expensive new chassis, Jeph said AIs are the legal owners of the bodies they inhabit.

<snip>

Good ideas, methinks, but maybe we should first take a closer look at how we humans actually do it, where the need for services are comparable and where they aren't, whether our different systems of social care (child-rearing, education, healthcare) can be disentangled for AI needs - and whether our 'solutions' provide a comprehensive and just solution to even our own problems::

* Time & energy expenditure to grow an individual's body and mind: With humans, the parents are assigned those costs. We solve that injustice by intergenerational solidarity and taxation - each new generation bears the 'construction costs' for the next ones bodies' (and makes some more-or-less inspired attempts at 'growing' the respective mind to basic functional level, with varying success) - but safe & ubiquitous contraception has made a big dent here: The Boomers where the first generation in human history able to reliably choose whether they wanted to be parents or not (without having to resort to lifelong suppression of a primal drive). Current attempts to restore intergenerational justice between parents and childless members of each generation are mostly focussed on taxation policy - and one should bear in mind that this solution is completely orthogonal to our health insurance systems, so a solution for AIs would have to include elements from both fields.

Before the abolition of child labour, human children & adolescents were expected to contribute to the family income, and human adults were expected to take care of their families' ill and elderly. For the longest time, this was mostly considered a family matter, not one of the state. The oldest healthcare system on the planet is only about 130 years old. Indenture to pay off at least part of chassis costs sounds horrible - but there wasn't much choice involved in the matter until very recently. Come to think of it: for much of the currently extant generations of humans, there isn't much choice involved, either. Edit: For much of human history, there was no such thing as childhood as we understand it.

Humans make such a big deal of parentage not because we're all obsessed about our pedigree - but due to the very practical & pressing question of "Who feeds it, raises it, educates it?"

Furthermore, since human bodies and their respective minds are so inextricably linked, there never has been any need to develop a just system that takes care of the costs of construction of each of them separately (Unless I misread Jeph's meaning of 'creches' and they include education services). Methinks it would be either impractical or unjust to simply copy one particular human solution while neglecting to acknowledge how our different systems of social care interlock and depend on each other.

(Questions: Do AIs have something akin to a reproductive drive? Is AI sex linked to procreation? Who runs the 'creches' in which AI minds mature - and who pays for this service? Are AIs legal orphans? Do AIs require training not provided in their creches? Are there AI students enrolled at Unis?)

* Illness: One of the greatest, and most costly, of human health-care problems - is there even an AI-equivalent? Since AIs are not part of a natural ecosystem, their physical bodies are unlikely to be prey for virii and bacteria. But it's likely that their minds and/or firmware will be.

Simultaneously, the most powerful antidote to computer-virii ... are probably AI. Maybe there's a sort of pact between human-, and AI-kind where each AI spends a certain amount of time enlisted with an "informational safety service" (akin to human mandatory military service), thereby providing for both themselves and the humans' computational devices? Maybe that is done before the AI becomes fully sentient?

* Wear & tear:
Humans have very powerful & sophisticated self-repair capabilities: I really doubt whether current materials technology can deliver something even remotely equivalent in durability. Show me a covering that provides the functionality of skin for seven to nine decades without repairs - millions of human bodies do that requiring merely food & sleep. I think my Dad's artificial titanium hip-joints are designed for a decade or two of use, whereas his natural ones handled six decades of intensive (sportive) use without complaint, and even provided functionality for one additional decade despite already breaking down.

* Injury: I guess it's again the humans who have the advantage - most of our injuries are either fatal (at least to the functionality of the part), or only require assister-frameworks, food & sleep. Injuries that require replacement with prosthesis are comparably rare - simply because it's so difficult for our bodies to survive a situation that renders a part beyond self-repair. The best example is combat veteran health care in the US Army - the costs have exploded because due to advances in body armour and trauma health care more and more vets survive injuries that would have been fatal only a generation before.

* Psychological/Psychiatric illness: A growing share of human health-care costs - posing a social justice-problem that we ourselves are struggling to find just solutions to, right now. I wouldn't say we've solved this one. Do AIs suffer similar problems, are similar treatment options available - or even better ones? Is treatment comparably costly, or is it much easier and cheaper? Bubbles' memory-arc seems to suggest that there's an entire world of options available (or close to available, depending on whether there's research into AI psychiatry) for pretty basic-level intervention into the workings of AI minds that are not even remotely possible with human minds. From what we've seen so far, it would not be unreasonable to assume that issues comparable to body-dysmorphia & gender dysphoria to be something akin to "driver-, or firmware conflicts" and their rectification a 'mere' question of available funds -some may even be 'just a download away'.

* Criminals: Depending on the country, a significant proportion of our prison populations are in prison for infractions that can be traced to psychiatric illnesses and/or wrong 'growing/raising' of their minds in their 'creches' - The rate of inmates with Asocial Personality Disorder/Narcissistic Personality Disorder amongst violent felons seems to be quite substantial, and 'treatment' (rather: The crudest of behavioural modification) of adults is tremendously difficult.

(Questions: How successful is the AI creches' 'quality assurance'? Are AI's more 'teachable' than humans, or less? And what about behavioural modification - how much can be done with simple firmware adjustments? How good is AI-psychiatry in treating severe issues akin to personality disorders? Is May an AI-outlier?)


Drawing inspirations from human health care,health insurance systems, education systems etc. are certainly worthwhile - but I think it's important to acknowledge that we ourselves haven't figured some of the most pressing issues here. And we shouldn't forget that: The greatest costs connected to the construction of a human's chassis aren't born by a societal institution - but by the parents. It's nice and well to have complete legal ownership of our chassis - but let's not forget that they are gifts from our parents.

Methinks that, depending on even relatively innocuous differences in world-building choices, taking care of the physical (mental) upkeep of all of AI-kind could be either a triviality that humans could easily provide, simply as a kindness, or could tax existing social care systems beyond capacity - and could necessitate the creation of entirely new solutions.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tlaloc on 14 Sep 2017, 13:28
Top remark.
We can be heroes, just for one day. :clairedoge: :psyduck:

<mod>huge quote of immediately preceding post removed</mod>

This is an amazing summary and very thoughtful in the depth on which you've gone. I'm in the pub drinking on the phone and I don't really have much to add.

So let's hit the ground running, because my interest is creching.

The emergent property of AI implies that the evolution of these beings cannot be quality controlled outside of certain parameters. Just like raising a human person, what you do is not going to generate the same results in every case.

So that same agenda that provokes an emergent intelligence into self actualising does not produce the same results. Children are given the same schooling by the same teacher and turn out different.  Even with AI mass generation providing the same parents " " for them all, there's still a degree of variation that generates individuals.

And then of course to get back to the brass tacks, there's Akima's smog. Perhaps humans are considered still the apex species.

I mean, I have an incredible sensation that misanthropic and / or nihilistic AI will get terminated due to their predecessor (the first one)  being a benign singularity.

All AI wish to live with humans thus far.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 14 Sep 2017, 14:41
"Never would've guessed" is emphatic phrasing.

Instead of the 50-50 chance a priori that Bubbles was the brains of the outfit, Officer Basilisk had not even considered it.

Something interesting is going on. If she's prejudiced against veterans then she's going to have a rough time in a police department. If she was just that impressed with Faye's brains, that would be a benign explanation(*). It's also conceivable that Officer Basilisk has internalized some anti-AI prejudices. That in turn could either be the surrounding toxic culture (Akima called endemic racist ideas "smog") or the result of her job constantly showing her AIs stupid enough to commit crimes and to get caught.

(*) Her sister did call Faye the brains of the family.

I suppose it could also be because when Bubbles is in a large, strong chassis and Faye is (comparatively) a small, weak meatbag. Not so much "Bubbles is ex-military/AI, therefore Faye is the clever one" as "Bubbles is large and strong so mostly contributes being large and strong". If it was Elliott and Momo , for example, maybe Officer Basilisk would have assumed Momo was the brains and Elliott the brawn.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 14 Sep 2017, 15:08
"Never would've guessed" is emphatic phrasing.

Instead of the 50-50 chance a priori that Bubbles was the brains of the outfit, Officer Basilisk had not even considered it.

Something interesting is going on. If she's prejudiced against veterans then she's going to have a rough time in a police department. If she was just that impressed with Faye's brains, that would be a benign explanation(*). It's also conceivable that Officer Basilisk has internalized some anti-AI prejudices. That in turn could either be the surrounding toxic culture (Akima called endemic racist ideas "smog") or the result of her job constantly showing her AIs stupid enough to commit crimes and to get caught.

(*) Her sister did call Faye the brains of the family.

I think that Roko merely made a thoughtless stereotypical assumption that Bubbles was the "brawn" and not the "brain," due to her physical size and strength. Her status as AI and veteran I think are only tangentally related, and you're projecting prejudices that aren't there.

P.S. Case, amazing post as always, which I will need time to digest before I could contemplate formulating a response even half as thoughtful.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Sep 2017, 15:10
I would just add that the lawmakers of the QC world are probably trying to accommodate AIs by analogy to organic people, and are probably making many mistakes along the way as a result.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Sep 2017, 15:50
Administrator Comment It's quite a while since I found a need to remind people, but please try to avoid unnecessary quoting. I have just removed a quote above that was the whole of a two-screen post, which was the post immediately above the comment - this just gets in the way of reading the conversation. I have the impression that excessive quoting has been growing of late; quotes should be for context in replies, and a little thought in choosing them goes a long way in keeping a discussion pleasant to read.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Case on 14 Sep 2017, 16:37
So let's hit the ground running, because my interest is creching. The emergent property of AI implies that the evolution of these beings cannot be quality controlled outside of certain parameters. Just like raising a human person, what you do is not going to generate the same results in every case.

So that same agenda that provokes an emergent intelligence into self actualising does not produce the same results. Children are given the same schooling by the same teacher and turn out different.  Even with AI mass generation providing the same parents " " for them all, there's still a degree of variation that generates individuals. And then of course to get back to the brass tacks, there's Akima's smog. Perhaps humans are considered still the apex species.

Speaking of the emergent properties of AI: We know that AIs can swap their chassis with relative ease - but are AI minds actually independent from their 'processor'? Because our minds aren't. I'm no neurologist, but I guess it's safe to assume that it'd be incredibly difficult to run your mind in my brain, because the 'Ghost' influences the physical structure of the brain, and vice verse. Much of what we know about the emergent properties of QC-verse AI minds comes from Bubbles'-memory arc - where Jeph seemed to suggest that the mind is an emergent property of the 'crystal brain'.

OTOH, Momo and Winslow simply downloaded into their respective chassis', which suggests that chassis is not merely the equivalent of a human body plus lower-level nervous system (maybe up to & including stuff like the amygdala, but not the neocortex), but that chassis' means "body and brain". No physical processor was swapped between the chassis.

There's a nice parallel here to Neal Asher's "Polity" cycle: In the 'Polity', Both Humans and AI can be downloaded into 'crystal' (very, very fast quantum-processor-unobtainium), with virtually unlimited upgrading options (The only hitch is that a cyborg brain, i.e. a fully synergetic link between an AI-crystal and a human brain, is possible, and incredibly powerful - way beyond even the virtually god-like AI's that rule the 'Polity', basically an instant-singularity - but also quite lethal: The human part is destroyed within minutes, and the remaining AI-part is hopelessly beyond any attempts to get it back to the reservation ... Humans that download fully into crystal basically become AIs - and fabricated AIs were built on the human template, so there's infinite possibilities for Asher to play with the Human/AI distinction).

In the 'Polity', computational power to run minds on is basically free - so death is more-or-less optional - but bodies aren't. Humans and AI can download into a 'Golem'-chassis, but there's a long waiting list for a free one, not the least since humans can have their minds stored and spend the time until a body becomes available in virtual realities.

AI minds and humans can indenture themselves to pay off their Golem bodies - and here's the interesting bit: Since Golem bodies and the respective crystals are several times more capable than organic ones, one could imagine even a "right to indentured servitude" (That's not in Asher's novels). I mean: What would you prefer - working 20 years in your human body to pay for a Golem chassis, or merely 5 years in the more capable Golem chassis?

I mean, I have an incredible sensation that misanthropic and / or nihilistic AI will get terminated due to their predecessor (the first one)  being a benign singularity. All AI wish to live with humans thus far.

Yeah ... but is that quality insurance, or the AI equivalent to Nazi-era euthanasia?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Sep 2017, 17:16
I haven't even figured out how health insurance for humans should work. It should be universal enough that there will never again be a case like May's.

{political digression}
Framing your question in terms of "insurance" is already implicitly limiting it to a commercial transaction and thus subtly sidelining the possibility of fully social healthcare.
{/political digression}

Then there's the whole thing with insurance making American healthcare system is so expensive.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Sep 2017, 21:09
Kuddos to Jeph on Faye dancing in the last panel!

Also, now we know which tea resulted in Roko seeing Mr. Yay_or_Neigh.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Tova on 14 Sep 2017, 21:27
We knew already, didn't we?

Edit: My mistake, I was confusing the Roko tea strip with the recent guest strip.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: zisraelsen on 14 Sep 2017, 21:48
I smell (heh) a business deal between Coffee of Doom and Union Robotics brewing (heh).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Sep 2017, 23:34
Yeah, today Roko learned something important: When Faye said that she brought a 'sparkling personality' to the business? She was lying. Seriously, I think that Faye brings is the offbeat artistic talent that leads to non-standard solutions and shortcuts that no-one with a more typical technical eduction would necessarily consider.

Now, what is this curious reaction to Assam tea on Roko's part? I'm thinking that the hallucinations that some blends cause are not entirely welcome, mostly due to what they bring racing out of the subconscious. Not nasty things, just embarrassing things that you'd prefer to not admit to yourself.

I smell (heh) a business deal between Coffee of Doom and Union Robotics brewing (heh).

I've expected for some time for Hannelore to branch out (either officially or unofficially) into becoming a robot pharmacologist. I'm wondering if she'd be the first person to seriously study the affect of scent on AI processes and thus be the woman who sort of writes the book on it. Maybe literally write a book too?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Scarblac on 15 Sep 2017, 00:46
Faye's song there reminded me of .

Its chorus goes

Ahhh, packing that meat, workin' long hours, on the count of the beat
Ahhh, packing that meat, doin' hard labour, gonna grow like a weed

And that is similar in theme, and rhymes with Faye's.

Also see the "Vinticious Version" of the same song. I can never decide which I like better.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 15 Sep 2017, 01:05
Now, what is this curious reaction to Assam tea on Roko's part? I'm thinking that the hallucinations that some blends cause are not entirely welcome, mostly due to what they bring racing out of the subconscious. Not nasty things, just embarrassing things that you'd prefer to not admit to yourself.
Well, I guess she might think her reaction to the scent might be a bit embarrassing. She does have an image to uphold.
I've expected for some time for Hannelore to branch out (either officially or unofficially) into becoming a robot pharmacologist. I'm wondering if she'd be the first person to seriously study the affect of scent on AI processes and thus be the woman who sort of writes the book on it. Maybe literally write a book too?
As for Hannelore, with her father being the Creator, and all, it just might be an instant standard work, regardless of its actual merits, if she did write that book.

Speaking of the emergent properties of AI: We know that AIs can swap their chassis with relative ease - but are AI minds actually independent from their 'processor'? Because our minds aren't. I'm no neurologist, but I guess it's safe to assume that it'd be incredibly difficult to run your mind in my brain, because the 'Ghost' influences the physical structure of the brain, and vice verse. Much of what we know about the emergent properties of QC-verse AI minds comes from Bubbles'-memory arc - where Jeph seemed to suggest that the mind is an emergent property of the 'crystal brain'.

I've wondered about that as well, ever since Corpse Witch demonstrated the AI drive (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3008) to Faye. What exactly is the nature of that drive, and does it include processing power? If not, what is life for an AI without processing power like; some kind of stasis? It also begs the question of what happens when an AI downgrades their chassis. The subprocesses of large AI, like Station, cannot possibly be run on a regular humanoid or anthropc chassis, let alone something like a toaster.
Of course, a lot of those processes would no longer be necessary; but to what extent does that influence their personality, and their sense of self?

I mean, I have an incredible sensation that misanthropic and / or nihilistic AI will get terminated due to their predecessor (the first one)  being a benign singularity. All AI wish to live with humans thus far.

That does sound like a dangerous assumption: how benign is your singularity, if it already starts suppressing its own? There's also the fact to consider that so far, we've only seen AI that wish to live with humans - with May as a possible exception.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: JimC on 15 Sep 2017, 02:15
I suppose it could also be because when Bubbles is in a large, strong chassis and Faye is (comparatively) a small, weak meatbag.
Unless Faye picks up on her bedside manner/customer care damn quick Bubbles is going to have to start wondering what Faye does contribute beyond a bit of forward momentum. Taking the proverbial out of a customer's insecurities seems like an especially good way to ensure they never come back. Roko has already specifically said she doesn't like being treated by a jerk, and is spending her own money to avoid it. Being good at the job will only get you so far.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: pwhodges on 15 Sep 2017, 02:28
Bubbles is going to have to start wondering what Faye does contribute beyond a bit of forward momentum

Remember, Faye first got involved with the fight scene specifically for her metalworking skills.  There's no reason to suppose those have gone away.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: oeoek on 15 Sep 2017, 02:31
I like the fact that Danielle's guest comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3556) seems to be approved as canon now; beware of ass-am! I am sure a stud unicorn (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3427) will keep her mind engaged elsewhere.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 15 Sep 2017, 03:59
I smell (heh) a business deal between Coffee of Doom and Union Robotics brewing (heh).

It seems likely. At the very least they should have a selection of teas on hand for the customers. We really don't know how far apart the two shops are. Unless they are very close running over to the CoD every time a customer needs a calming aroma will be impractical once business picks up.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Sullivan on 15 Sep 2017, 04:05
I like the fact that Danielle's guest comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3556) seems to be approved as canon now; beware of ass-am! I am sure a stud unicorn (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3427) will keep her mind engaged elsewhere.
And it's very interesting that Officer Royko already knows about Assam.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 15 Sep 2017, 05:49
Unless they are very close running over to the CoD every time a customer needs a calming aroma will be impractical once business picks up.

Union Robotics seems to be on the corner of Union Street and Market Street. CoD's location has never been precisely specified, but it's definitely downtown and seems to be about half a block off of Main Street. So we're looking at something between 0.2 and 0.4 miles.

Bubbles had a top speed of 30 km/h.

So just imagine Bubbles running at top speed in her underwear through downtown Northampton carrying a cup of tea. You're welcome.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: oeoek on 15 Sep 2017, 06:06
Bubbles had a top speed of 30 km/h.
So just imagine Bubbles running at top speed in her underwear through downtown Northampton carrying a cup of tea. You're welcome.

 :lol:


I hear these sounds in my head, adjusted for a heavy military grade robot (boink boink) with a cup-to-go perfectly stabilized in one hand...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Case on 15 Sep 2017, 07:27
I hear these sounds in my head, adjusted for a heavy military grade robot (boink boink) ...

... but then I realize it's just the couple in 15B again ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: bhtooefr on 15 Sep 2017, 08:52
My interpretation of the whole Assam thing is basically that Danielle Corsetto used Assam as the variety that triggered that particular hallucination for Roko, and then gave it to Bubbles. Then, Jeph decided to make that canon.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Nepiophage on 15 Sep 2017, 09:17
A thing that Officer Roko Basilisk has, that no other robot in the strip apparently possesses, is a surname. I wonder if this was a requirement of police department bureaucracy (or just Jeph's word-play).

Punchbot is a surname - first name Bartholomew https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414 (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414)





Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 15 Sep 2017, 10:20
Punchbot is a surname - first name Bartholomew https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414 (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414)
Good catch - or is it just that my eyes are not what they once were?

"Bart Punchbot" does have a certain, ahem, punch to it, doesn't it?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Kugai on 15 Sep 2017, 14:16
Bring her Darjeeling Bubbles.

And I think Faye is having a wee bit of fun with Roko here,   :)   ;)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Thrudd on 15 Sep 2017, 19:15
Something I noticed about Roko in the last panels.
She seemed to have been blushing self-conscientiously for some reason until Faye did her little musical number thus distracting her.

Don't ask me why she was blushing though. I have no idea.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: zisraelsen on 15 Sep 2017, 19:58
Assam is the tea responsible for this acid trip of a comic (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3556). Presumably, Roko had a similarly bizarre reaction to it and doesn't want to relive it in front of witnesses.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 15 Sep 2017, 21:00
Bubbles doesn't sparkle --- she gleams. Like an often polished piece of solid metal.

Roko looked like a case-hardened police officer at first. But now we are seeing the vulnerabilities that make her a relateable person.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: bhtooefr on 16 Sep 2017, 02:49
Presumably, Roko had a similarly bizarre reaction to it and doesn't want to relive it in front of witnesses.
Yep. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3427)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: kallibean on 16 Sep 2017, 02:52
The fact that when we see Bubbles with tea it's in some kind of fantasy (e.g. background replaced, images not present in that setting), and now a candle is being asked for during what is akin to day-surgery, for anxiety (similar to how people may ask for sedatives for blood draws etc), can we assume that scents have the function of anaesthesia for AI chassis?

According to Bubbles, every scent provokes its own unique sensory reaction. Hannelore is adept at blending teas that create a strong hallucinogenic effect. However, yes, I imagine that there are some blends that create a feedback loop which, until it fades out, induces a somatic state where the central processor is unable to process sensory data and the AI is in state not unlike sleep mode.

I said function of anaesthesia, not anaesthesia., and referenced sedatives rather than local/general for organics for a reason - perhaps I should have also pointed out that some doctors will hand out Xanax for these things as well.

Now that it's come up again I shall attempt to clarify, because unless you're assuming that while under the influence of a hallucinogen that Bubbles is fully aware and able to feel and react at the same level as Bubbles not under the influence of a hallucinogen, I don't think you really answered my question.

Do scents somehow render AIs less aware or reactive such that they can be used in the context of a relaxant, sedative, or anaesthesia (not necessarily knocking one out, but ameliorating the sensory load to render an AI less reactive or less caring about certain stimuli)?

This is concerning not because of its implication in this strip and people's suppositions that UR and CoD can arrange a beneficial relationship for the purpose of using tea as a tool for calming AIs during procedures. This is concerning because it means that by dint of a scent disseminated through the air such as with a vaporiser, combat AIs such as Bubbles could be rendered less effective due to not only hallucinating on the battlefield but by being less reactive to external stimuli while that scent is present.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 16 Sep 2017, 03:20
This is concerning not because of its implication in this strip and people's suppositions that UR and CoD can arrange a beneficial relationship for the purpose of using tea as a tool for calming AIs during procedures. This is concerning because it means that by dint of a scent disseminated through the air such as with a vaporiser, combat AIs such as Bubbles could be rendered less effective due to not only hallucinating on the battlefield but by being less reactive to external stimuli while that scent is present.

So pop out a scented smoke grenade and potentially shut down any combat AI in the area? Yeah, that would be scary.

I wonder if that's part of why Bubbles was unceremoniously dumped out of the military and now suffers PTSD. Perhaps she was incapacitated and the human part of her squad was massacred with her unable to save them. It doesn't really fit with her enjoying Unicorn Grove, but maybe that's because the memories were destroyed by Corpse Witch.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Sep 2017, 18:19
>Perhaps she was incapacitated and the human part of her squad was massacred with her unable to save them.

She said as much. It was an EMP gun. She was conscious but unable to move while her squad mates were butchered. Thank God I cannot imagine what that's like.

Maybe, just maybe, people in robot bodies can turn off their responses to smells. Organic people can't, but then we can't even safely stop breathing for more than a few minutes. Which raises the question of whether sentient mobile workstations need to inhale and exhale for cooling. If they can hold their breath, then enemy aromatherapy would not be an issue.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: zisraelsen on 16 Sep 2017, 20:10
Air cooling wouldn't require olfactory sensors which  have been said  (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3146) to be what bots' senses of smells are based on. Presumably, if debilitating smells were a concern, those sensors would be togglable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Sep 2017, 23:27
@zisraelsen,

That presumes that the full power of scents has previously been recognised. Their value as a relaxant and promote non-agitated behaviour has probably been well recognised for some time but I suspect that the potential for it to completely disable a synthetic hasn't been fully explored (at least not until fairly recently). Whilst it is probably recognised as a risk, it is quite possible that Hannelore is one of only a few practitioners to have got results on this scale.

There are many commercially-available blends of tea so I suspect all have been tested and the synthetics olfactory interpretation software has been adjusted to prevent them from creating disabling reactions. However, custom blends and preparations, such as Hannelores, are unknowns and it is unlikely that anyone would have known about them to think to include features to minimise their effect just yet.

Even a relaxed soldier can fight (if at a notably reduced efficiency level). Given Bubbles' olfactory sensors primary tasking was identifying harmful chemical agents, disabling them in a combat scenario would be counter to their purpose. So, I think that they would simply have trained Bubbles to be able to resist their effects. However, Hannelore's work was something on a totally new level!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Zog on 17 Sep 2017, 00:36

In this country 'cash-in-hand' implies a transaction that the tax man will be unaware of and not receive his share of.  Is that the case over there? I can certainly imagine Roko paying for the work out of personal funds, but having it off the books seems unlikely.

I do not know how much variation there is within the US but I am from the southeast and live in the southwest and would take "cash in hand" to mean payment when service is rendered and what you are speaking of to be "under the table".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Case on 17 Sep 2017, 01:49
She said as much. It was an EMP gun. She was conscious but unable to move while her squad mates were butchered. Thank God I cannot imagine what that's like.

Ummmmh not quite what she said (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3463) (comic 3463): She said she was incapacitated by "a powerful EMP" - no indication as to whether she was conscious at the time her squadmates died (Also no specifics whether the EMP was generated by a handgun, grenade, high-altitude nuke etc).

(http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/3463.png)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 17 Sep 2017, 02:49
Huh. I thought there was A strip that went into more detail, but I couldn't for the life of me find it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: blt on 17 Sep 2017, 04:00
Bubbles has mentioned previously that her sense of smell actually serves as a sophisticated chemical weapons detector.  So I don't put much stake in the idea that a "smell weapon" could incapacitate AI soldiers; if their hallucinations from tea aren't at least partly under their control I have to imagine Sarin or VX would be a mess and defeat the whole purpose of having a sensor.

My pseudoscience headcanon for the tea hallucination is that their sense of smell normally runs as a background process and just feeds the analysed outputs to her higher consciousness.  But by focussing on the input data directly and possibly intentionally rerouting it into her conscious thought, she is able to purposefully get the hallucinations based on the scent data.  Sort of like a deep mediation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: Case on 17 Sep 2017, 08:26
Huh. I thought there was A strip that went into more detail, but I couldn't for the life of me find it.

Yeah, searched quite a bit myself - I forgot that the grand revelation of what the memory is about comes after the Spookybot/Emily-mind-diving arc, not before.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 17 Sep 2017, 10:08
Poll Results Post
BenRG's Wish Thread - What Would You Like to See Next?

1. A day on patrol with Officer Basilisk - 11 (32.4%)
2. The madness that ensues at The Horrible Revelation when Brun, Elliott and Clinton are all there - 9 (26.5%)
3. Claire's agony as she tries to spend a day with Clinton WITHOUT shipping him with someone - 5 (14.7%)
4. Just how strange are Brun's coworkers? A week of the weird! - 3 (8.8%)
=5. The landlord isn't happy having five people to an apartment; apartment hunting for Marten & Co.! - 2 (5.9%)
=5. Robot week: Jeremy, Seven and Punchbot are working on marketing the Robot Fighting League - 2 (5.9%)
=7. The adventures of May, Momo and Winslow on a typical day in Northampton - 1 (2.9%)
=7. Like Jeph, Marten is thinking of giving up the electric guitar in favour of the synthesiser; artistic angst ensues - 1 (2.9%)
x. SpookyBot approaches Bubbles for a 'favour'; will she pay the devil their due? - 0 (0%)
x. Other (please specify in a comment) - 0 (0%)


Well, I can see that there is a lot of love for the newer characters, including one who was arguably only a background/supporting character until this week! That said, yeah, I do think that Roko on patrol might be interesting on several levels. Just what kind of petty street crime does a synthetic commit? Would hanging around with ill-intent be loitering or would it be illegal parking?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3566 to 3570 (11th to 15th September 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 17 Sep 2017, 20:24
That said, yeah, I do think that Roko on patrol might be interesting on several levels. Just what kind of petty street crime does a synthetic commit? Would hanging around with ill-intent be loitering or would it be illegal parking?
Remember, Roko is a Massachusetts State Police trooper, not a city police officer, and we see her working AI exploitation investigations (something that's apt to cross city limits and county lines) in town, probably felony crimes. 

Since she does not appear to be assigned to highway patrol duty or general law enforcement in an unincorporated area, we must conclude she's a detective, although probably a junior one since we do see her in uniform from time to time.  When she appears in uniform, we don't see any chevrons or brass, so we can conclude she's a Probationary Trooper, Trooper, or Trooper First Class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_State_Police#Rank_structure).  (They wouldn't have a trainee out getting canned for a raccoon.)