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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 12 Nov 2017, 13:19

Title: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Nov 2017, 13:19
I think that we are going to see Hannelore do something very, very humanitarian in this coming week. She's going to let Tilly stay around because she knows perfectly well that her mother has zero patience for failure and that those who test her patience tend to meet ugly ends. However, Tilly can't just sit around doing nothing, so she's going to get her friends together to find a week's worth of busy-work.

What sort of tasks do you think that they will find for her?

I'm thinking that Hannelore will want Tilly out of her way at first, so I can see her choosing the most stressful options in an attempt to make Tilly want to quit. That would require Faye, Sam and the rough-and-tumble of Union Robotics. It may also involve dealing with the eccentric clientele at the various self-help groups.

However, I would like... and it would be a nice touch... if Tilly could find a genuine way in which she can be Hannelore's assistant. Maybe Hannelore mentions her idea of starting a movement to improve the treatment and lot of the vast majority of synthetics. Hannelore isn't the sort of person who could start a whole new charitable organisation from scratch. Tilly has likely been trained in how to make an executive's vague dreams into a reality all her professional life.

As Marten will likely say: "Looks like we've adopted another one!"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Nov 2017, 14:24
The idea of Hannelore launching and Tilly organizing a charity for AIs has my unconditional love.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 12 Nov 2017, 15:50
I really like this idea. I hope that's how it plays out.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Nov 2017, 17:12
Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Tilly, I've decided not only to keep you on, but to entrust you with carrying out one of my most valued projects.

Go to the zoo and do not return until you have counted every hair on every animal there.

If you don't, well, I'll just tell my mother you didn't work out.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 12 Nov 2017, 18:28
I kinda want the running gag for this storyline to be everyone mistakenly calling her Taffy, just with her quietly correcting them and she gets more and more resentful about. At the end of the story, Tilly reports back to Beatrice, who calls her Taffy and boom! Tilly explodes and goes on a rant at her boss.

I'm still trying to decide if Tilly gets fired or promoted to Beatrice's own PA.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 12 Nov 2017, 20:32
Comic’s up and I think Hanners might be contemplating getting the big guns out.

Or at least find some poor schmuck she can pass Tilly onto as soon as possible...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tyr on 12 Nov 2017, 20:34
Hmm... closest thing to a last-name we have for Tilly... should we pronounce it Key-Hoe-tick, or quick-soh-tick?

Sidenote, I confused Thixotropic and Quixotic.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 12 Nov 2017, 20:39
Is anyone else besides me using Mindy Cohn as their head-voice for Tilly now?

...And there ever been a "Head Voice" thread for that matter?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 12 Nov 2017, 20:39
I'm still annoyed how much of a pushy salesman Tilly is. I honestly hate her.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 12 Nov 2017, 21:11
I'm thinking 'gives' her to Dora. But we'll see.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: MrNumbers on 12 Nov 2017, 21:13
"How would it look to my superiors?"

"... like they'd made a terrible mistake that wasted everyone's time and money."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Nov 2017, 21:35
Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Very well, Ms. Birch, I accept you as my assistant on condition that you obey all the household rules.

You must keep your body and skin at the same level of bacterial sterility as Winslow's at all times.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 12 Nov 2017, 21:57
I see one potential way of winning over Hannelore.  Tiffy said she doesn't currently have any lodging nearby, but will soon.  Perhaps she could take over "Juicy's" lease. 
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 12 Nov 2017, 22:00
I feel like there's some story line in the future that wants Hanners to have a PA, and this is such an unlikely thing that this inordinately long argument was needed to justify it.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 12 Nov 2017, 22:29
The tactic that Hannelore's mother is using simply cannot be perceived by her to work, if Hannelore ever wants to have any kind of independence and self-determination in the future. If she were to accept this entering wedge, her life would never again be her own.

What does Hannelore have to lose, by giving Tilly a try?

Her very identity as anything other than an appendage to her mother.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Nov 2017, 23:26
Tilly really is a bizarre personality, isn't she? I mean, I applaud being dedicated to one's work but to be dedicated to the point where you are actually trying to hang on to a location where you are neither wanted nor needed? I'm not sure if that's crazy dedicated or just crazy! FWIW, I suspect that, at some point, it will come out just how afraid of Beatrice she is and just how thoroughly intimidated into doing this job she was.

However, the 'intimidation' explanation cannot and does not explain Tilly's relentless cheer. One can't help but wonder if she's heard rumours about Hannelore being 'nicer' or something and that the thought of working for her instead of being on the executive level at HQ and thus around Beatrice makes this job simply too sweet to lose!

Jeph does like creating completely weird characters, doesn't he?

Hmm... closest thing to a last-name we have for Tilly... should we pronounce it Key-Hoe-tick, or quick-soh-tick?

Tilly's surname is Birch (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3608). Her middle name is Quixotica. Hey, what can I say? Her dad was a Cervantes fan!

"How would it look to my superiors?"

"... like they'd made a terrible mistake that wasted everyone's time and money."

Which they would blame on Tilly to avoid any embarrassment or blame landing on their desks. She would be demoted or even fired as the embarrassment to the company that she had become, aside from whatever personal revenge Beatrice exacted for not carrying out her plan.

This is the big thing; Hannelore needs to balance her own independence against the fact that Tilly would be made to suffer if she were perceived by Beatrice to have failed.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 13 Nov 2017, 00:13
> Which they would blame on Tilly to avoid any embarrassment or blame landing on their desks.

Exactly. No-one ever advanced their career by demonstrating their management has a problem with their "New clothes".

I'm rather reminded of Sven's Intern.

Thinking personally, I genuinely don't know what a PA could do for me, although I could use a housemaid to deal with my catastrophic untidiness... And like Sven's intern there'd be a tendency to turn one into the other.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 13 Nov 2017, 00:34
I see one potential way of winning over Hannelore.  Tiffy said she doesn't currently have any lodging nearby, but will soon.  Perhaps she could take over "Juicy's" lease.
Getting rid of "Juicy" - now there's a task.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Nov 2017, 01:22
I see one potential way of winning over Hannelore.  Tiffy said she doesn't currently have any lodging nearby, but will soon.  Perhaps she could take over "Juicy's" lease.

Getting rid of "Juicy" - now there's a task.

TILLY: "Mister Forty-Seven? I have a contract for you. Normal rate and the utmost discretion, as always."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 13 Nov 2017, 01:32
Y'all need to chill. Tilly is delightful. Maybe she can help Hannelore buy out Coffee of Doom and franchise that shit. :D Beatrice would be so proud.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Nov 2017, 03:17
"What have you got to lose?"

Sorry, Tilly - that phrase has been tainted forever...


(https://cloud.lovinmalta.com/images/uploads/2016/11/_blogWide/giphy-13_161109_150530.gif?mtime=20161109150529)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tyr on 13 Nov 2017, 03:38
I see one potential way of winning over Hannelore.  Tiffy said she doesn't currently have any lodging nearby, but will soon.  Perhaps she could take over "Juicy's" lease.

Getting rid of "Juicy" - now there's a task.

TILLY: "Mister Forty-Seven? I have a contract for you. Normal rate and the utmost discretion, as always."

Given the rest of the Questionable Content Universe, Juicy is gonna wake up somewhere in California, having signed the lease over to Tilly, and no memories of the last five weeks.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: hakko504 on 13 Nov 2017, 03:39
Exactly. No-one ever advanced their career by demonstrating their management has a problem with their "New clothes".

I'm rather reminded of Sven's Intern.
Who did in fact point out a problem with his clothes... (1230) (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1230)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 13 Nov 2017, 04:50
That "I won't stop intruding on your life unless you call the cops on me"-attitude is a wee bit creepy, Tilly ... just sayin'
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Nov 2017, 05:01
Yeah, Tilly is a bit of a talker.

Which is incidentally short a letter of what she's acting like.

Maybe Marten needs to get his sword (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1902).
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Nov 2017, 08:07
Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Ms. Birch, how would you like to be in charge of an entire organization?

Put together the papers and planning for my new venture, a legal defense fund for victims of my mother.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: themacnut on 13 Nov 2017, 08:21
I know several forum members have mentioned fear of Beatrice's wrath as a reason Tilly can't take no for an answer, but shouldn't she have mentioned that by now? To gain Hannelore's sympathy, if for no other reason. Instead Tilly just refuses to leave until Hanners gets worn down by sheer persistence, which casts doubt about just how badly it would go for her if she failed, in my mind at least, and also makes her much more annoying as well.

Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Nov 2017, 08:33
I know several forum members have mentioned fear of Beatrice's wrath as a reason Tilly can't take no for an answer, but shouldn't she have mentioned that by now? To gain Hannelore's sympathy, if for no other reason. Instead Tilly just refuses to leave until Hanners gets worn down by sheer persistence, which casts doubt about just how badly it would go for her if she failed, in my mind at least, and also makes her much more annoying as well.

Why break out the Mom card though? I'm pretty sure that Tilly knew of Beatrice's reputation before being assigned the job (and surely any job would mean you'd research your new boss), and I'm pretty sure that Tilly would know her mother better than her. Even if half the stories about what Beatrice has done is true, than Hanners wouldn't need to be told about her mother's wrath, she already knows what her mother is capable of.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: maneyan on 13 Nov 2017, 09:01
I think my main issue with Tilly is the fact that she is being pushed onto the very last person who - to my mind - can deal well with something like this. Dora would have been hilarious. Faye/Bubbles as well. Sven most definitely. But Hannelore? No, that only seems like it's gonna be a highway to a nervous breakdown considering how she acted when Clinton got creepy with her during their first meeting. Her "cheer" etc. just comes across as an indoctrinated businessman's. She probably will stick around, but I honestly can't say I am the least excited about it.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 13 Nov 2017, 10:22
Exactly. No-one ever advanced their career by demonstrating their management has a problem with their "New clothes".

I'm rather reminded of Sven's Intern.
Who did in fact point out a problem with his clothes... (1230) (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1230)

Except Tilly isn’t there to learn anything.  If she were assigned to Sven she’d have no problem doing his housework.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 13 Nov 2017, 14:56
Y'all need to chill. Tilly is delightful.

Tilly has made it crystal clear that her loyalty is to "what the company told me to do, even when it doesn't make sense and is clearly unethical", which absolutely rules out keeping her. The foremost qualification of a personal assistant is they have to be loyal to the person they're assisting, not third parties.

Hannelore can never, ever, ever trust Tilly. Ever.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Nov 2017, 15:15
I have to agree.

Of course what's actually happening is that Tilly is pretending to act as Hanners's PA, but in the reality of her own mind she is actually Beatrice's PA and this is merely a task she is doing for her.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Nov 2017, 15:25
Y'all need to chill. Tilly is delightful.

Tilly has made it crystal clear that her loyalty is to "what the company told me to do, even when it doesn't make sense and is clearly unethical", which absolutely rules out keeping her. The foremost qualification of a personal assistant is they have to be loyal to the person they're assisting, not third parties.

Hannelore can never, ever, ever trust Tilly. Ever.

Welcome, perceptive and absolutely correct new person!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 13 Nov 2017, 16:43
The fourth panel was the one that really put the nail on the coffin for me... There's no way in hell I would spend more than 15 minutes (let alone 23!) with such a mindless individual. I can't even feel sorry for her at this point.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Nov 2017, 17:57
Matilda "Tilly" Birch, how apropos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birching).

Beatrice no doubt screens all her applicants for sociopathic tendencies - and then only takes on the ones who score the highest in that area.   Blood and breeding mean much to Beatrice, but Ms Matilda is her Apprentice of Evil for she knows Hannelore will never qualify in that area.   Indeed, becoming her mother's clone is one of Hanners's worst nightmares (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443).  Beatrice has concluded Hannelore will never become her clone and Tilly is her gambit to craft her into her puppet instead. 

As for Tilly, she knows exactly what kind of harpy she's working for and views it as the ultimate opportunity.

And is it just me, or is Jeph drawing Tilly to look like a female Jesper Pate?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 13 Nov 2017, 18:01
This is a test. Of Hannelore's executive ability. If she can manage the Taffie situation, she is worthy to follow in her mother's footsteps.

(boy do I despise Beatrice at the moment)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: sizer on 13 Nov 2017, 18:55
Y'all need to chill. Tilly is delightful.

Tilly has made it crystal clear that her loyalty is to "what the company told me to do, even when it doesn't make sense and is clearly unethical", which absolutely rules out keeping her. The foremost qualification of a personal assistant is they have to be loyal to the person they're assisting, not third parties.

Hannelore can never, ever, ever trust Tilly. Ever.

Aaaaaah someone else gets it. I've been losing my damned mind this little arc.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Nov 2017, 20:01
Welcome, new person!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Nov 2017, 21:11
Nice to see Hanners going into passive aggressive mode for this.

Also tentative hope for the idea that misnaming Tilly is going to be a running gag for this arc.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: WoaLG on 13 Nov 2017, 21:30
Welcome, new person!

I'm curious, do you get a notification any time somebody posts for the first time? You're always right on the ball to welcome them.

And I'm sure that Tilly being called Taffy is definitely going to be a running gag for this arc. Even if it wasn't before, there was such a positive reaction to the idea here that Jeph probably decided "Eh, why not? Doesn't change anything important."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: hedgie on 13 Nov 2017, 21:34
Nice to see Hanners going into passive aggressive mode for this.

Also tentative hope for the idea that misnaming Tilly is going to be a running gag for this arc.

In the end, it might be the thing that drives her off.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 13 Nov 2017, 21:36
Okay it's official: I like Tilly, because what she does has nothing to do with anyone's malice, and everything to do with the fact that she just absolutely loves the challenge of being the very best at her job.

I mean, I get it, it's a terrible thing for Hanners, but as this is fiction, and comedy is derived from pain, I'm kinda eager to see what chaos Tilly will introduce with this exceptionalism.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Nov 2017, 21:37
Welcome, new person!

I'm curious, do you get a notification any time somebody posts for the first time? You're always right on the ball to welcome them.

I miss a lamentable number of new people. I hope they feel welcome anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 13 Nov 2017, 21:51
Y'all need to chill. Tilly is delightful.

Tilly has made it crystal clear that her loyalty is to "what the company told me to do, even when it doesn't make sense and is clearly unethical", which absolutely rules out keeping her. The foremost qualification of a personal assistant is they have to be loyal to the person they're assisting, not third parties.

Hannelore can never, ever, ever trust Tilly. Ever.

Fine, Hannelore can't trust Tilly, but if she dismisses her she probably knows what her mother will do next.  Regardless of Tilly's fate another PA would be sent so it's better to employ her, but keep her at arm's length. 

And there seems to be a lot of snap judgment's of Tilly.  She's definitely an abnormal person, but that doesn't mean she's a sociopath.  Hannelore and plenty of others in this strip have some psychological problems of varying degree too.  Perhaps Beatrice screens prospective assistants for just this kind of behavior.   

And 93 minutes to shower!  I hope her father gave her some kind of space age hygienic chamber because that's a lot of water to be going through.   
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 13 Nov 2017, 21:54
At this point I don't think Tilly HAS any loyalty to Beaterice or the company. I think she literally just loves the job, and views Hannelore as the holy grail. I can just imagine Beatrice's HR department showing a list of Hanner's qualities, and everyone in the meeting just takes a giant step backwards, and then Tilly literally lunges at the paper and runs away with it cackling into the distance.

Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 13 Nov 2017, 22:09
Nice to see Hanners going into passive aggressive mode for this.

Is this really passive-aggressive? A 93 minute bathing routine seems like just plain Hannelore to me  :-D


But it seems (to me, at least) that Tilly couldn't give a damn what Hanners really wants - it would seem Hanners is just a mission objective on her radar...

(And I know I'm gonna get annoyed by that smug expression!)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Nycticoraci on 13 Nov 2017, 22:14
And 93 minutes to shower!  I hope her father gave her some kind of space age hygienic chamber because that's a lot of water to be going through.

A 93 minute bathing process probably doesn't mean 93 minutes of continuous water usage. A sensible person turns things off while scrubbing then turns on to rinse etc. It probably also includes other elements of morning ablutions.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: St.Clair on 13 Nov 2017, 22:23
and/or ablations...
exfoliations...
(etc, etc)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Nycticoraci on 13 Nov 2017, 22:28
and/or ablations...
exfoliations...
(etc, etc)

I hope not  ablations. :-)

That is a rather more destructive process. Then again we have seen hanners scrub till she bleeds
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: tiercel on 13 Nov 2017, 22:29
Red flags:

“Hi!  I’m nominally here to serve you but refuse to respect your express wishes except in way I deem fit for me!”  Gets right up my nose; can understand this spawning passive-aggressive in response by calling her Taffy etc.

“Hi!  I already have and am using a disturbing level of personal detail on you that most people might normally only entrust to a spouse/partner!” (Or at least Facebook?) Maybe I’m foolishly old fashioned, the way some people heedlessly share Every Life Detail online, but I find this repulsive and insulting.

“Hi!  I’m here to work your mother’s will upon you!”  Do I need to explain this one?  Even in the best case scenario where this plot forces Hanners to sustain enough spine to either genuinely bend Taffy to her will or (in defiance of all comedic convention) actually dismiss this “loveably” whackadoodle intrusion, we still get a HannerMom steepled-fingers “Excellent-everything-is-proceeding-as-I-have-forseen” reaction shot.

And, possibly triggery:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 13 Nov 2017, 22:44
Red flags:

“Hi!  I’m nominally here to serve you but refuse to respect your express wishes except in way I deem fit for me!”  Gets right up my nose; can understand this spawning passive-aggressive in response by calling her Taffy etc.

“Hi!  I already have and am using a disturbing level of personal detail on you that most people might normally only entrust to a spouse/partner!” (Or at least Facebook?) Maybe I’m foolishly old fashioned, the way some people heedlessly share Every Life Detail online, but I find this repulsive and insulting.

“Hi!  I’m here to work your mother’s will upon you!”  Do I need to explain this one?  Even in the best case scenario where this plot forces Hanners to sustain enough spine to either genuinely bend Taffy to her will or (in defiance of all comedic convention) actually dismiss this “loveably” whackadoodle intrusion, we still get a HannerMom steepled-fingers “Excellent-everything-is-proceeding-as-I-have-forseen” reaction shot.

And, possibly triggery:
(click to show/hide)

That...Doesn't really seem to be what Beatrice actually is. She's a tyrant, but she's not really that meglomaniacal so much as...impulsively aggressive? She might not hold back when it comes to handling things on a corporate level, but as far as individuals? Neh. I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt, and especially in regards to her own daughter.

I'm gonna stick with what seems to be the usual case with Jeph's storylines: The road to hell paved with good, and oddball intentions. Corpse Witch so far has been the only 'truelly' irredeemable character we've ever seen, and even she has a certain logic to her Machiavellian personality: She did what she thought was best for her personal survival, even if it had amoral results.

To have Beatrice behave so cartoonishly villainous would be a HUGE step backwards from the growth she had bonding with Hannelore when she visited.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Storel on 13 Nov 2017, 23:02
And 93 minutes to shower!  I hope her father gave her some kind of space age hygienic chamber because that's a lot of water to be going through.

A 93 minute bathing process probably doesn't mean 93 minutes of continuous water usage. A sensible person turns things off while scrubbing then turns on to rinse etc. It probably also includes other elements of morning ablutions.

And when was the last time Hannelore was described as a sensible person?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 13 Nov 2017, 23:11
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Nov 2017, 23:12
I've got the feeling that Tilly is going to find the next two days will consist of her being 'speak my schedule' and acting as a pair of arms to carry things Hannelore doesn't want to carry and a pair of hands to touch things she doesn't want to touch (all within reason, of course).

IMO, any realistic claims of malignancy on Tilly's part have been extinguished by panel 1: She's not so much satisfied in victory as overjoyed that she's getting the treat that she wants. There's a childishness here that I'm still trying to work out and from which to draw solid conclusions. That said, from panel 4 we also learn that Tilly has the same sort of obsessive attention to detail as Hannelore; she might accidentally enable Hanners' worst behavioural excesses!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 13 Nov 2017, 23:52
I forgot - I wrote "Other" in the poll and forgot to include the reason:

Truly the most unlikely scenario of all!:
Tilly merely took this job as an opportunity to get close to Hannelore, to whom she intends to confide her Machiavellian master-plan for the downfall of Beatrice Ellicott-Chatham... 
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Nycticoraci on 13 Nov 2017, 23:56
And 93 minutes to shower!  I hope her father gave her some kind of space age hygienic chamber because that's a lot of water to be going through.

A 93 minute bathing process probably doesn't mean 93 minutes of continuous water usage. A sensible person turns things off while scrubbing then turns on to rinse etc. It probably also includes other elements of morning ablutions.

And when was the last time Hannelore was described as a sensible person?

Hannelore is very sensible, if a bit excessive and obsessive.

To be precise, there is always a sense behind what she does or thinks, even if it is not something that an ordinary person would consider.

To add to this, carefully avoiding wasting excess water is exactly the sort of thing an OCD person might do. If you have developed a precise bathing ritual that is followed to the letter, there is no reason that wouldn't include the repeated turning on and off of the shower.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Nov 2017, 00:23

A 93 minute bathing process probably doesn't mean 93 minutes of continuous water usage. A sensible person turns things off while scrubbing then turns on to rinse etc. It probably also includes other elements of morning ablutions.
Which may involve headphones and scented candles...
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1719 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1719)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Nov 2017, 01:22
Someone as hyper-organised as Hannelore probably has a 'urgent rush shorter clean' schedule. The problem is that the things she classifies as 'optional extras to skip' may not be the same as anyone else's.

DORA: "Hanners, why did you come in wearing your fluffy bunny slippers?"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Nov 2017, 01:26
To add to this, carefully avoiding wasting excess water is exactly the sort of thing an OCD person might do. If you have developed a precise bathing ritual that is followed to the letter, there is no reason that wouldn't include the repeated turning on and off of the shower.

With regards to this issue, it might be worth noting her 4 minute tolerance for water pressure. That might enable someone, with more motivation than I have, to try and make an estimate of how many times she turns on the tap.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Nov 2017, 03:03
Its going to be rather fun when Hanners turns up at the coffee shop with Tilly in tow. What is Dora going to make of someone parked in the shop all day taking up a table? To be acceptable Tilly will presumably need to be regularly consuming coffee, possibly to the extent of total caffeine overload by the end of the working day.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Nov 2017, 03:11
@JimC,

Jeph has put a preview picture of Hanners in CoD wearing a black shirt and an unhappy facial expression. I'm thinking that Dora and whoever else is working the morning shift (Emily please!) will realise how this imposition is impacting on their friend's mental health and will take it upon themselves to help. The way Emily chooses to do this may leave Tilly thinking that she's an extra in The Mask.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 14 Nov 2017, 03:26

So, the evidence that Taffy is Nexus 9 is getting weaker...

BUT!!!

(errmm....)

Look at the THICKNESS of the "neck against blouse" line in that last panel!
SURELY that's the meeting of a shirt collar with a neck joint!!

(C'mon I'm clutching at STRAWS here, people!)  :angel:
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TinPenguin on 14 Nov 2017, 04:14
Tilly is all too humanly infuriating to be a robot.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Nov 2017, 06:55
Its going to be rather fun when Hanners turns up at the coffee shop with Tilly in tow. What is Dora going to make of someone parked in the shop all day taking up a table? To be acceptable Tilly will presumably need to be regularly consuming coffee, possibly to the extent of total caffeine overload by the end of the working day.

Perhaps she can be put to use as a test user for the more, shall we say, exotic blends?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: blt on 14 Nov 2017, 08:54
With a 93 minute shower routine it's no wonder Hanners felt tempted to skip it after her hard shift however many shifts ago.  Assuming she has one before and after work she's working on 21 hour days.  Skipping sleep just makes sense.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 14 Nov 2017, 10:13
Tilly is all too humanly infuriating to be a robot.

Maybe she’s a Meseeks and all Hannelore has to is let her help and then she’ll disappear.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: dutchrvl on 14 Nov 2017, 10:40
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.

Hm, not sure, previous characters to my recollection never were that detested, except maybe for Renee and to a lesser degree Brun.
Still, to me Tilly is somewhat infuriating not because she seems like a terrible person, but because she is acting so far as one of the worst types of telemarketers. You know, the type who, while you try to stay polite while telling them you're not interested, keep trying to convince you after you have told them repeatedly that you're not interested....which eventually does make me loose my cool.

If I were Hanners I would have already shown her the door at this point. Not only does she not want a PA, she's quite right that she really does not have a need for one.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Nov 2017, 11:07
Hannelore has some persuasive friends.

There would be no need for a threat, no need for a raised voice, if Bubbles were to quietly explain that she cares a lot about Hannelore's well-being and autonomy. (Leaning forward)"A lot".
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Nov 2017, 11:17
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.

Hm, not sure, previous characters to my recollection never were that detested, except maybe for Renee and to a lesser degree Brun.

I guess you weren’t here when May was introduced then. There were people who absolutely despised her. Bubbles had a few fanatical detractors also.

On the other hand, Corpse Witch didn’t get a whole lot of hate when she was first introduced. Draw whatever moral you like from that.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: zechstyr on 14 Nov 2017, 12:34
Gotta say I don't like the misnaming thing.  It really makes me feel sorry for Tilly, because I've personally been there and it's belittling.  That sort of thing's a common bullying tactic (look who started the trend!  I mean, look!) and I'm unamused by the number of people who find it, well, amusing. 

I mean, yeah, Tilly's not all in the right here but people can be socially awkward.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Nov 2017, 12:56
It's being played for laughs but I agree it expresses contempt.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 14 Nov 2017, 13:18
Gotta say I don't like the misnaming thing.  It really makes me feel sorry for Tilly, because I've personally been there and it's belittling.  That sort of thing's a common bullying tactic (look who started the trend!  I mean, look!) and I'm unamused by the number of people who find it, well, amusing. 

I mean, yeah, Tilly's not all in the right here but people can be socially awkward.

Hanners has repeatedly stated why she doesn't need a personal assistant, while Tilly has repeatedly ignored what she's saying. Yeah, Tilly is in a bad situation, but she's definitely making it worse by not listening to what Hanners is saying.

Let's face it, Hanners is rarely someone to outright confront anyone. She has to get pushed repeatedly to get to the screaming someone down stage. She's using what she has at her disposal and in this case its undermining someone who is doing the exact same to her.

Some people say you have to fight fire with fire, personally I prefer fighting it with water.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Nov 2017, 13:29
But Hannelore usually fights fire with Hannerrage (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2682).
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Nov 2017, 13:31
She never hulks out on her own behalf, only to protect friends.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 14 Nov 2017, 15:38
Gotta say I don't like the misnaming thing.  It really makes me feel sorry for Tilly, because I've personally been there and it's belittling.  That sort of thing's a common bullying tactic (look who started the trend!  I mean, look!) and I'm unamused by the number of people who find it, well, amusing. 

I mean, yeah, Tilly's not all in the right here but people can be socially awkward.

Hanners has repeatedly stated why she doesn't need a personal assistant, while Tilly has repeatedly ignored what she's saying. Yeah, Tilly is in a bad situation, but she's definitely making it worse by not listening to what Hanners is saying.

Let's face it, Hanners is rarely someone to outright confront anyone. She has to get pushed repeatedly to get to the screaming someone down stage. She's using what she has at her disposal and in this case its undermining someone who is doing the exact same to her.

Some people say you have to fight fire with fire, personally I prefer fighting it with water.

I seem to recall twice when Hannelore did something against Marigold's objections.  First there was that time she cleaned her apartment and the other when she grounded her from video games.  And if you're argument is that was for Marigold's own good (which it was) then Beatrice can use that same justification...  if she was even looking for justification.   
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 14 Nov 2017, 16:08
Welcome, new person!

I'm curious, do you get a notification any time somebody posts for the first time? You're always right on the ball to welcome them.

I miss a lamentable number of new people. I hope they feel welcome anyway.

What happens then is that the rest of us survivors creepy cultists delightful charming rogues get to them first, so ...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 14 Nov 2017, 16:36
Gotta say I don't like the misnaming thing.  It really makes me feel sorry for Tilly, because I've personally been there and it's belittling.  That sort of thing's a common bullying tactic (look who started the trend!  I mean, look!) and I'm unamused by the number of people who find it, well, amusing. 

I mean, yeah, Tilly's not all in the right here but people can be socially awkward.

Hanners has repeatedly stated why she doesn't need a personal assistant, while Tilly has repeatedly ignored what she's saying. Yeah, Tilly is in a bad situation, but she's definitely making it worse by not listening to what Hanners is saying.

Let's face it, Hanners is rarely someone to outright confront anyone. She has to get pushed repeatedly to get to the screaming someone down stage. She's using what she has at her disposal and in this case its undermining someone who is doing the exact same to her.

Some people say you have to fight fire with fire, personally I prefer fighting it with water.

I seem to recall twice when Hannelore did something against Marigold's objections.  First there was that time she cleaned her apartment and the other when she grounded her from video games.  And if you're argument is that was for Marigold's own good (which it was) then Beatrice can use that same justification...  if she was even looking for justification.

How the hell did you get to that point from what I said?

My point was that from the off, Tilly was undermining Hanners by continually explaining on how she was a good PA, despite Hanners repeatedly saying she hasn't. Even to the point of Hanners asking if she would have to call the police to have Tilly removed, the PA kept saying she was there to do her job. Now, she might have been hired by Beatrice but its Hanners who ultimately decides for herself if she wants a PA. Because its classic Beatrice to know what is best for her daughter, even though she doesn't really know anything about Hanners.

Hanners repeatedly misnaming Tilly is a pointed response. Because Hanners is the not the kind of person who berates someone, shouts at them or belittles them with any malicious intent. If she shouts, its because she's been pushed too far. If she takes someone down a peg or two (like her mother during her last visit), its by playing them at their own game. If Beatrice sent someone that is suspected to be something of a manipulator, Hanners is going to fight back as best she can and if that means misnaming a PA sent by her mother, so be it. Because it sends a message to her mother.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 14 Nov 2017, 18:47
Taffie loves a well regulated workplace!

I firmly believe that she will find something useful to do. Something that nobody else has thought of yet. Something that will undermine Beatrice's game plan. Because Jeph.

(Saltwater Tilly? He must mean Saltwater Taffie)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: War Sparrow on 14 Nov 2017, 20:43
I will be completely unsurprised if this whole arc is a set up to make that joke.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Nov 2017, 21:06
I kinda want the running gag for this storyline to be everyone mistakenly calling her Taffy, just with her quietly correcting them and she gets more and more resentful about. At the end of the story, Tilly reports back to Beatrice, who calls her Taffy and boom! Tilly explodes and goes on a rant at her boss.

I'm still trying to decide if Tilly gets fired or promoted to Beatrice's own PA.
"My name is Homer Simpson! [two guards rush in, restrain Homer, and drag him away] Oh, you're a dead man, Burns. Oh, you're dead! YOU'RE DEAD, BURNS!!!"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 14 Nov 2017, 21:29
Part of the two parter story, “Who Shot Beatrice?”, whereupon Beatrice had also crushed her greatest enemies; the local primary school and the nearby old folks home.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 14 Nov 2017, 21:37
Gotta say I don't like the misnaming thing.  It really makes me feel sorry for Tilly, because I've personally been there and it's belittling.  That sort of thing's a common bullying tactic (look who started the trend!  I mean, look!) and I'm unamused by the number of people who find it, well, amusing. 

I mean, yeah, Tilly's not all in the right here but people can be socially awkward.

Hanners has repeatedly stated why she doesn't need a personal assistant, while Tilly has repeatedly ignored what she's saying. Yeah, Tilly is in a bad situation, but she's definitely making it worse by not listening to what Hanners is saying.

Let's face it, Hanners is rarely someone to outright confront anyone. She has to get pushed repeatedly to get to the screaming someone down stage. She's using what she has at her disposal and in this case its undermining someone who is doing the exact same to her.

Some people say you have to fight fire with fire, personally I prefer fighting it with water.

I seem to recall twice when Hannelore did something against Marigold's objections.  First there was that time she cleaned her apartment and the other when she grounded her from video games.  And if you're argument is that was for Marigold's own good (which it was) then Beatrice can use that same justification...  if she was even looking for justification.

How the hell did you get to that point from what I said?

My point was that from the off, Tilly was undermining Hanners by continually explaining on how she was a good PA, despite Hanners repeatedly saying she hasn't. Even to the point of Hanners asking if she would have to call the police to have Tilly removed, the PA kept saying she was there to do her job. Now, she might have been hired by Beatrice but its Hanners who ultimately decides for herself if she wants a PA. Because its classic Beatrice to know what is best for her daughter, even though she doesn't really know anything about Hanners.

Hanners repeatedly misnaming Tilly is a pointed response. Because Hanners is the not the kind of person who berates someone, shouts at them or belittles them with any malicious intent. If she shouts, its because she's been pushed too far. If she takes someone down a peg or two (like her mother during her last visit), its by playing them at their own game. If Beatrice sent someone that is suspected to be something of a manipulator, Hanners is going to fight back as best she can and if that means misnaming a PA sent by her mother, so be it. Because it sends a message to her mother.

The point I'm making is that Hannelore didn't have a problem doing what she thought was best despite Marigold's objections so how is this different?  Because you like Hannelore?  I like her too, but she's still got some serious mental problems.  Winslow helped her through a lot of them, but he has his own autonomy now and not around as much.  Perhaps Hannelore still needs an assistant and might relapse without Winslow's constant presence.

As for tonight's strip

I think Tilly should know better about what Hannelore would wear about a coffee shop and I'm not talking about the business suit.  I imagine Beatrice goes through a suit per day so why should her daughter be any different?  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can. 
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Shjade on 14 Nov 2017, 21:58
To be honest I'm still not sure what to make of Hanners calling her Taffy. It seems...odd for her to maintain something inaccurate this consistently after being repeatedly (if quietly) corrected, but it'd be more odd if she were doing it intentionally rather than just somehow fixed on the wrong name.

I dunno. Don't feel like reading too much into it. z.z
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: cesium133 on 14 Nov 2017, 22:22
Prediction: at some point, Hanners will refer to Tilly by her correct name. At which point, Tilly will reflexively respond with "It's Taffy."  :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: blt on 14 Nov 2017, 22:27
I doubt Hannelore calling Taffy Tilly is her being passive aggressive or deliberately spiteful.  Although it might be a little out of character for her, I think it's just her being absent-minded being played for laughs.  I think if it was an intentional slight there would be more attention drawn to it in comic at the way she says it by her facial expression or bolding or what have you.

I do find it a little funny in the context that this forum is famous for jumping down people's throats for even an unintentional typo or autocorrect in a character's name.  Deliberate author jab at that?  Probably not, but still funny to me at least.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Carl-E on 14 Nov 2017, 23:16
Tiffy's quite the artiste! 

And Hanilore could really be a trend setter at the shop if she'd just take her advice... 




 :-D

I'll just show myself out, thanks...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Nov 2017, 23:17
Tilly, seriously, why are you working in admin when your true talent is in fashion design? I'm serious! That suggested wardrobe is good, assuming that Hannelore worked in admin or sales or was going on a date. It isn't the sort of thing one should wear when going to a shift at a coffee shop where "The blender-looking thing is on fire again!" is a statement often heard.

That said... Has anyone thought to try to sell 'Coffee of Doom' branded aprons to Dora? From what I've seen, they need protective clothing in that place!

Prediction: at some point, Hanners will refer to Tilly by her correct name. At which point, Tilly will reflexively respond with "It's Taffy." :roll:

I'm expecting Tilly to respond by starting to blubber, hugging Hannelore's legs and trying to kiss her feet.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 14 Nov 2017, 23:52
  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can.
In a shop - where you are on your feet all day and constantly twisting and turning around and changing direction? OK, I don't wear heels and never have, but it sure feels like a recipe for screaming ankles to me. Does anyone who does wear heels want to disagree and correct me?
If test #1 for Tally was "Pick out suitable dress for the day ahead" I'd say that was an abject failure. Suitable for the executive head of the coffee shop chain who doesn't spend time on the shop floor maybe.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Truec on 15 Nov 2017, 00:34
That said... Has anyone thought to try to sell 'Coffee of Doom' branded aprons to Dora? From what I've seen, they need protective clothing in that place!

They have aprons,  and wore them frequently way back in the early days. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=9)  At some point, Dora let them stop. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=837)

Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Carl-E on 15 Nov 2017, 00:43
Sara took them home one evening to wash them. 


Neither was ever heard from again.   
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 15 Nov 2017, 02:40
"Things explode on me."
More and more, 'Coffee of Doom' is a truly appropriate name for what is probably the most dangerous coffee shop in Northhampton...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: dutchrvl on 15 Nov 2017, 04:45
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.

Hm, not sure, previous characters to my recollection never were that detested, except maybe for Renee and to a lesser degree Brun.

I guess you weren’t here when May was introduced then. There were people who absolutely despised her. Bubbles had a few fanatical detractors also.

On the other hand, Corpse Witch didn’t get a whole lot of hate when she was first introduced. Draw whatever moral you like from that.

Thanks, no I was around, I just didn't recall May being that loathed, at least not after she re-appeared in physical form. Bubbles maybe had few detractors but was AFAIK more or less universally liked here, no?

Anyway, doesn't really matter, as always I have confidence in JJ coming up with an interesting storyline.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 15 Nov 2017, 05:03

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Nov 2017, 05:06
Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

Could be a bad move. Servants who receive that sort of token can easily become even more monomaniacally devoted to you!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 15 Nov 2017, 05:09
Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

Could be a bad move. Servants who receive that sort of token can easily become even more monomaniacally devoted to you!

But she'd be free of Beatrice's tyranny ! :)
And then could be sacked! :)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 15 Nov 2017, 05:32
The Taffy thing got pretty old for me and now I think Hanners is being kind of an ass even if Tilly is a much bigger annoyance. Although I believe the reason why I simply don't find it funny anymore is because of some co-workers. It's astonishing how many, after year and a half, still can't get through their skulls that my name is Rodrigo and that Rodriguez is a last name... It doesn't matter that I have a friggin nametag right on my chest.


So yeah, Hanners. It's Tilly.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Technoir on 15 Nov 2017, 06:04
Nice to see Hanners going into passive aggressive mode for this.

Also tentative hope for the idea that misnaming Tilly is going to be a running gag for this arc.

Indeed. Given Hanners' eidetic memory, there's no way she's not calling her Taffy on purpose. It does, however go against her innate politeness. I foresee some profuse apology in the near future.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 15 Nov 2017, 06:29
  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can.
In a shop - where you are on your feet all day and constantly twisting and turning around and changing direction? OK, I don't wear heels and never have, but it sure feels like a recipe for screaming ankles to me. Does anyone who does wear heels want to disagree and correct me?
If test #1 for Tally was "Pick out suitable dress for the day ahead" I'd say that was an abject failure. Suitable for the executive head of the coffee shop chain who doesn't spend time on the shop floor maybe.

I am not even sure Tilly drew heels. Just the way the perspective is makes it seem like drawing-Hanners is up on her toes. However exposed ankles and the top of your feet is a really, really bad idea in a job that involves hot liquids.

As far as wearing heels in that kind of environment, unless they were tall narrow heels it wouldn't be so bad. The big thing is how much support you have. With narrow heels you're putting most of your weight on the front half/toes and if your job involves standing all day that's going to be a big pain. Wearing chunky, low heels like I prefer or wedges means good foot support.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 15 Nov 2017, 07:01
  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can.
In a shop - where you are on your feet all day and constantly twisting and turning around and changing direction? OK, I don't wear heels and never have, but it sure feels like a recipe for screaming ankles to me. Does anyone who does wear heels want to disagree and correct me?
If test #1 for Tally was "Pick out suitable dress for the day ahead" I'd say that was an abject failure. Suitable for the executive head of the coffee shop chain who doesn't spend time on the shop floor maybe.

I am not even sure Tilly drew heels. Just the way the perspective is makes it seem like drawing-Hanners is up on her toes. However exposed ankles and the top of your feet is a really, really bad idea in a job that involves hot liquids.

As far as wearing heels in that kind of environment, unless they were tall narrow heels it wouldn't be so bad. The big thing is how much support you have. With narrow heels you're putting most of your weight on the front half/toes and if your job involves standing all day that's going to be a big pain. Wearing chunky, low heels like I prefer or wedges means good foot support.

Honestly, the outfit just shows how useless and incompetent Tilly actually is, because she is literally unable to conceive of anything outside the corporate world.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: swapna on 15 Nov 2017, 08:32
  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can.
In a shop - where you are on your feet all day and constantly twisting and turning around and changing direction? OK, I don't wear heels and never have, but it sure feels like a recipe for screaming ankles to me. Does anyone who does wear heels want to disagree and correct me?
If test #1 for Tally was "Pick out suitable dress for the day ahead" I'd say that was an abject failure. Suitable for the executive head of the coffee shop chain who doesn't spend time on the shop floor maybe.

I am not even sure Tilly drew heels. Just the way the perspective is makes it seem like drawing-Hanners is up on her toes. However exposed ankles and the top of your feet is a really, really bad idea in a job that involves hot liquids.

As far as wearing heels in that kind of environment, unless they were tall narrow heels it wouldn't be so bad. The big thing is how much support you have. With narrow heels you're putting most of your weight on the front half/toes and if your job involves standing all day that's going to be a big pain. Wearing chunky, low heels like I prefer or wedges means good foot support.

Honestly, the outfit just shows how useless and incompetent Tilly actually is, because she is literally unable to conceive of anything outside the corporate world.

Maybe she misunderstood Hanners' job. Her mother is, after all, a high-powered executive; and I doubt Beatrice bothered to inform her that Hanners is an minimum-wage employee in a tiny coffee-shop, not a manager/executive in a chain or something. And, she chose pretty much exactly what Hanners chose to wear for her 'interview' : http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1707
To Tilly, Hanners' work wouldn't make a lot of sense - she's richer than the average Saudi Prince, she doesn't need a minimum-wage job.

Also, I'm really bothered by the whole Taffy thing. It's one thing to get confused once, but Tilly said her name for no less than three times. I don't think it's Hanners' being an ass on purpose, it's her not perceiving Tilly as a person - just like her mother.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 15 Nov 2017, 10:40
I don’t think someone as organized as Tilly could make such a wardrobe mistake.  She may be capable of playing head games better than Hannelore’s passive aggressive name forgetting.  Perhaps this is all about coaxing her to seize her destiny.  I can even see Hannelore losing her temper and calling her Taffy to which Tilly will reply calmly “yes ma’am it’s Taffy” because you know if Beatrice mistook her name there’d be no polite correction. 
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: citizenfive on 15 Nov 2017, 11:01
I agree with brasca on the "seize her destiny" thing because Beatrice sent Tilly there to groom Hannelore for business. Regarding Tilly not correcting Hannelore if she got mad and called her Taffy, I think that would require Hannelore's personality to be much closer to Beatrice's, which thankfully it isn't.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 15 Nov 2017, 12:03
Hanners knows exactly what she's doing to Ms Matilda.  She knows what she's up against, has probed, and found the chink in Tilly's armor - that name.  It's subtle, which Hannelore likes because she's loath to be overtly mean, but she wants to be rid of "Taffy" and intends to keep calling her that until she blows up and storms out of her own accord. 
So far Jeph has represented the sofly spoken "It's Tilly" corrections in a small font.  Look for them to get louder and louder and louder until it becomes "It's TILLY, God damn-it!  TILLY!  T-I-L-L-Y!!"

The Taffy thing got pretty old for me and now I think Hanners is being kind of an ass even if Tilly is a much bigger annoyance. Although I believe the reason why I simply don't find it funny anymore is because of some co-workers. It's astonishing how many, after year and a half, still can't get through their skulls that my name is Rodrigo and that Rodriguez is a last name... It doesn't matter that I have a friggin nametag right on my chest.

So yeah, Hanners. It's Tilly.
My surname is excellent bait for that kind of teasing, and in HS the assistant manager at my part time job was not a nice person (a co-worker asked, "From what, distemper?" when we learned she'd passed away a few years later).  I just ignored it - as in not responding when she told me to do something using her little nickname.   It actually broke her of the habit.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 15 Nov 2017, 15:03
  It's the shoes.  I've never seen Hannelore wear heals and don't think she can.
In a shop - where you are on your feet all day and constantly twisting and turning around and changing direction? OK, I don't wear heels and never have, but it sure feels like a recipe for screaming ankles to me. Does anyone who does wear heels want to disagree and correct me?
If test #1 for Tally was "Pick out suitable dress for the day ahead" I'd say that was an abject failure. Suitable for the executive head of the coffee shop chain who doesn't spend time on the shop floor maybe.

I am not even sure Tilly drew heels. Just the way the perspective is makes it seem like drawing-Hanners is up on her toes. However exposed ankles and the top of your feet is a really, really bad idea in a job that involves hot liquids.

As far as wearing heels in that kind of environment, unless they were tall narrow heels it wouldn't be so bad. The big thing is how much support you have. With narrow heels you're putting most of your weight on the front half/toes and if your job involves standing all day that's going to be a big pain. Wearing chunky, low heels like I prefer or wedges means good foot support.

Honestly, the outfit just shows how useless and incompetent Tilly actually is, because she is literally unable to conceive of anything outside the corporate world.

Maybe she misunderstood Hanners' job. Her mother is, after all, a high-powered executive; and I doubt Beatrice bothered to inform her that Hanners is an minimum-wage employee in a tiny coffee-shop, not a manager/executive in a chain or something. And, she chose pretty much exactly what Hanners chose to wear for her 'interview' : http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1707
To Tilly, Hanners' work wouldn't make a lot of sense - she's richer than the average Saudi Prince, she doesn't need a minimum-wage job.

No, Taffy "misunderstood" Hanners' job because, as she's already openly admitted, she believes in ignoring reality whenever it contradicts her instructions from corporate and/or her own ideological viewpoint. Given that Taffy "did her homework" to the point of having memorized detailed profiles of every single person around Hanners, there is no possibility that this is an innocent mistake. None whatsoever.

Quote
Also, I'm really bothered by the whole Taffy thing. It's one thing to get confused once, but Tilly said her name for no less than three times. I don't think it's Hanners' being an ass on purpose, it's her not perceiving Tilly as a person - just like her mother.

Taffy really isn't a person, she's a corporate drone. And Hanners needs to not perceive Taffy as a person in order to not be taken advantage of by Taffy, who is basically Beatrice in a passive-aggressive "nice" persona instead of an aggressive "dominant bitch" persona.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 15 Nov 2017, 16:31
Also, I'm really bothered by the whole Taffy thing. It's one thing to get confused once, but Tilly said her name for no less than three times. I don't think it's Hanners' being an ass on purpose, it's her not perceiving Tilly as a person - just like her mother.

True. Then and again, Taffy Tilly isn't exactly treating Hanners like a person - with wishes and preferences of her own, or boundaries - either.

(OCD can absolutely tap into your 'imp of the perverse', though I'm not sure whether that's Jeph's intention here: as a sort of 'subconscious revenge-tic'. I wouldn't be entirely out of character for my OCD-addled heatmeats, though ...)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 15 Nov 2017, 16:34
My question is - why is everyone calling Hanners passive-aggressive? - just because she keeps calling Tilly, "Taffy"? Hanners' mother inserted that into her head - since that point, she's been responding in an upset and distracted manner, making the same error, but only because the influence that Beatrice still has over Hannelore is still active. In other words, if Beatrice had got the name right, Hanners wouldn't be saying it wrong now.

I suspect that if Hannelore was in a less frazzled state of mind, she wouldn't be getting the name wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 15 Nov 2017, 18:02
Probably because in her first panel of her first appearance, Tilly did introduce herself to Hannelore (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3606).

Hanners is not the kind of person to forget someone's name right after meeting them. So we can infer that her misnaming Tilly is a form of passive-aggressive resistance.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: celticgeek on 15 Nov 2017, 18:12
But Hannelore's mother called her "Taffy, or something like that."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 15 Nov 2017, 19:26
It's almost as though this is one of those situations where neither of them is one hundred percent in the right.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Shjade on 15 Nov 2017, 19:29
Unrelated to The Tilly Situation: anyone else digging Hannelore's just-out-of-the-shower Sonic the Hedgehog hairstyle?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: mikmaxs on 15 Nov 2017, 20:24
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.

Hm, not sure, previous characters to my recollection never were that detested, except maybe for Renee and to a lesser degree Brun.

I guess you weren’t here when May was introduced then. There were people who absolutely despised her. Bubbles had a few fanatical detractors also.

On the other hand, Corpse Witch didn’t get a whole lot of hate when she was first introduced. Draw whatever moral you like from that.

Thanks, no I was around, I just didn't recall May being that loathed, at least not after she re-appeared in physical form. Bubbles maybe had few detractors but was AFAIK more or less universally liked here, no?

Anyway, doesn't really matter, as always I have confidence in JJ coming up with an interesting storyline.
A bit late to the show here, but:
Jeph kinda just sucks at introducing new characters in a way that makes them likeable. It's not one of his strengths.
Let's take all the examples here:
May, Brun, and now Tally all have the exact same setup (And Bubbles too, but to a lesser extent.) Take a popular character, have someone else be kind of an asshole to them but also be either impossible to get rid of or get around. Nobody likes reading about people they like getting stuck with annoying conflict that doesn't have a good outcome.

May showed up, screwed with Dale, cussed him out, and was a general pain in the ass.
Brun first harassed Clinton while Clinton was having a bad day, then threatened him with a shotgun. (Yes, this was later edited to be a threat made with a harpoon, but first impressions really do count.)
Bubbles gets off the best here - She just stonewalls Faye and is kinda rude. (But I also don't remember her getting much hate.)
Now, Tiffy is following the same pattern, and in fact is acting in almost the exact same way as May - Show up completely unannounced, harass the likeable character, and force them to either deal with a massive inconvenience or put up with an annoying, unhelpful companion for a short period of time. (It's almost uncanny how similar they are, in fact.)

If the pattern holds true, we will soon learn or see something sympathetic or humanizing about the character (The Tilly/Taffy thing comes to mind,) then we'll either learn some kind of Tragic Backstory or else something Tragic But Not Backstory will happen that will make the character really sympathetic and earn them forgiveness for being a pain in the butt earlier, and then they'll settle in to a more regular swing and develop some actual rapport once they start acting outside of the first person they're introduced with and once they're no longer being shoehorned into the interaction with the Likeable Character.

It's a formula that's getting kind of tired.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: hedgie on 15 Nov 2017, 20:38
Unrelated to The Tilly Situation: anyone else digging Hannelore's just-out-of-the-shower Sonic the Hedgehog hairstyle?

Hmm.  Not really a fan of the hairstyle in general, but anything involving hedgehogs…
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 15 Nov 2017, 20:44
Probably because in her first panel of her first appearance, Tilly did introduce herself to Hannelore (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3606).

...And then Hanners immediately called her mother, the woman who caused Hanners to attempt to disembowel herself with a guitar the first time she came to visit. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=910) During the call, Beatrice offhandedly got the name wrong and presumably, it stuck - with Hanners being in a flap ever since.

I suspect that this is just the sort of situation where neurotic, paranoid, obsessive Hannelore would mess up on the names, particularly when it is the Looming Presence of Ms. Beatrice Chatham who started it...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Penquin47 on 15 Nov 2017, 21:30
I'm somewhat disturbed by Tilly's reaction to "should we kill her" being "if you do I won't be able to help you hide the body".  Less the joking (I HOPE), more... just how many death threats has Tilly heard if she has a ready quip about it?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Nov 2017, 21:34
tfw Hannelore is acting exactly like Beatrice without realizing it
but you have precisely no objections to this

(https://i.imgflip.com/pqyd1.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Storel on 15 Nov 2017, 21:39
I'm somewhat disturbed by Tilly's reaction to "should we kill her" being "if you do I won't be able to help you hide the body".  Less the joking (I HOPE), more... just how many death threats has Tilly heard if she has a ready quip about it?

I think Hanners was a bit disturbed by it, too, since her response was "How long have you been working for my mother?"   :-o
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: A Duck on 15 Nov 2017, 21:43
Comic!

Also OH MY GOD DORA CASUALLY THREATENING MURDER WHAT IS THIS 2007???

Seriously, how long has it been since Dora behaved this way?

I miss Dora. I wish she got some arcs in focus.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Storel on 15 Nov 2017, 21:44
Yeah, it's like she's channeling Faye or something...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: A Duck on 15 Nov 2017, 21:46
Dora used to be like that, too.

She calmed down with time, specially when Faye's attitude started to be an actual problem.

I'm not complaining, though. Dora's change in behaviour was acknowledged and is natural character growth.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 15 Nov 2017, 21:48
If you're a new QC character and you aren't detested on the forums within about half a dozen appearances, then you've probably been mute.

Hm, not sure, previous characters to my recollection never were that detested, except maybe for Renee and to a lesser degree Brun.

You forgot Claire. She is the one I think of whenever a new character is added and this kind of thing happens.

Pretty sure characters like Angus and Dale copped some hate. Faye and Marten still do from time to time. Maybe Emily is one of the few who didn't?

A bit late to the show here, but:
Jeph kinda just sucks at introducing new characters in a way that makes them likeable. It's not one of his strengths.

I don't think that's on Jeph, really.

No-one's perfect. Jeph excels at introducing imperfect characters. It's what makes him popular. If the character's flaws align with yours, then of course you will love them. And if they happen to touch a sore spot.. as they inevitably will with someone ... well...

It's one thing to dislike someone's character flaw. That's natural. To be provoked to the point of saying someone really isn't a person is something else. Personally, I have never hated any character Jeph has created, because even a character superficially obnoxious like May has some fundamental goodness.

Maybe Jeph is trying to teach us to see people as people not as a single character flaw or as a two-dimensional villain. Maybe he'll keep repeating this "formula" until we get it.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 15 Nov 2017, 21:50
...
Jeph kinda just sucks at introducing new characters in a way that makes them likeable. It's not one of his strengths.

I suspect a daring researcher could find this somewhere in TVtropes.
Introduce the new character in a way that makes them look like an enemy, but actually it turns out they are a new ally.

I firmly believe Taffie will make herself indispensable.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 15 Nov 2017, 21:56
Yeah, it's like she's channeling Faye or something...

Well somebody had to.  Even if Coffee of Doom is more positive since Faye left you still need someone most likely to commit homicide.  Penelope might, but Cossette would be more likely to die in the process.  Emily and Dale are too mellow and while Hannelore has enough of her mother within her she can't handle the sight of her blood much someone else which you'd think Dora would remember. 
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 15 Nov 2017, 21:57
It's almost as though this is one of those situations where neither of them is one hundred percent in the right.
I can't put any of it on Hannelore.  She owes Tiffy no debt of courtesy.  Tully's like a telemarketer who won't stop calling or a peddler who won't take his foot out of your door.  She has far more coming than a mangled name.

Imagine what Faye would do to her if Bubbles didn't intervene? 

Bubbles to Tizzy while holding Faye back:  "Run, you fool!  Run for your life!"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 15 Nov 2017, 22:00
If you think about it, deploying Taffy is a pretty ingenious plot by Beatrice. Either Hannelore is forced to kick a puppy (which makes her more like Beatrice) or Hannelore is forced to accept a "personal assistant" who is actually loyal to Beatrice and will sabotage and manipulate Hannelore every moment of every day from now on.

Tilly has made it crystal clear that her loyalty is to "what the company told me to do, even when it doesn't make sense and is clearly unethical", which absolutely rules out keeping her. The foremost qualification of a personal assistant is they have to be loyal to the person they're assisting, not third parties.

Hannelore can never, ever, ever trust Tilly. Ever.

Fine, Hannelore can't trust Tilly, but if she dismisses her she probably knows what her mother will do next.  Regardless of Tilly's fate another PA would be sent so it's better to employ her, but keep her at arm's length. 

And there seems to be a lot of snap judgment's of Tilly.  She's definitely an abnormal person, but that doesn't mean she's a sociopath.  Hannelore and plenty of others in this strip have some psychological problems of varying degree too.  Perhaps Beatrice screens prospective assistants for just this kind of behavior.

I never argued Taffy is a sociopath; I said she's made it clear where her loyalty lies, and said sense of loyalty is flatly unacceptable for a PA.

. . . .
Now, Tiffy is following the same pattern, and in fact is acting in almost the exact same way as May - Show up completely unannounced, harass the likeable character, and force them to either deal with a massive inconvenience or put up with an annoying, unhelpful companion for a short period of time. (It's almost uncanny how similar they are, in fact.)

If the pattern holds true, we will soon learn or see something sympathetic or humanizing about the character (The Tilly/Taffy thing comes to mind,) then we'll either learn some kind of Tragic Backstory or else something Tragic But Not Backstory will happen that will make the character really sympathetic and earn them forgiveness for being a pain in the butt earlier, and then they'll settle in to a more regular swing and develop some actual rapport once they start acting outside of the first person they're introduced with and once they're no longer being shoehorned into the interaction with the Likeable Character.

It is exceedingly difficult to imagine any plot twist that could make Taffy sympathetic or humanizing, given that she literally demonstrates that she has no respect for boundaries unless backed by force and is, in fact, a terrible PA whose "careful research" has not included the slightest familiarization with what the person she is "assisting" needs or wants. She pretty much openly admits that her actual job is to force Hannelore to become the way her mother wants.

(Note: even if Hannelore doesn't call the police, Taffy is explicitly committing criminal trespass -- and explicitly said, "I will continue criminal trespass unless you call the police to stop me with force.)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Nov 2017, 23:24
Yeah, Jeph does have a habit of finding humorous ways to introduce ideas or character aspects that ought to be horrifying. I mean, has Tilly been an accessory after the fact of murder before or is that just general job training all PAs at ECI get, whether or nor they ever put it into practice?

I'm pretty sure that Hannelore calling her 'Taffy' is supposed to be some kind of running joke in the same vein as Mr Burns seemingly neurological inability to remember Homer Simpson's name. Personally, I still think that it's associative; Hannelore is still thinking of Tilly as Beatrice's drone and so she's using the name Beatrice gave her. I would laugh my butt off if it turned out that everyone does that to the point where her company ID reads 'Taffy'.

Dora is in a very daring mood today, sartorially speaking. Short-cut shirt with an aggressive motto? I'm wondering if something's going on between her and Tai or whether Sven has been inadvertently picking at her insecurities again.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 15 Nov 2017, 23:31
The fourth panel was the one that really put the nail on the coffin for me... There's no way in hell I would spend more than 15 minutes (let alone 23!) with such a mindless individual. I can't even feel sorry for her at this point.

What if she's lead into a back room of CoD and the whole main cast are there holding goblets and chanting "Gooble gobble. Gooble gobble. One of us! One of us!" What then?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zog on 15 Nov 2017, 23:59

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

My first thought after reading this was "Does giving someone a sock have some sort of symbolic signifigance?".
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 16 Nov 2017, 00:29
Mistress has presented Tilly with clothes! Tilly is freeeee!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: oddtail on 16 Nov 2017, 00:42
It's been mentioned by others, and I have nothing insightful to add to the conversation, but I *hate* the way Hanners keeps saying "Taffy" instead of "Tilly", and I find no excuse for it. Especially since I have seen no evidence that I recall that Hannelore is forgetful or prone to missing details (the opposite, if anything).

I... think it's supposed to be funny? To me, it isn't. And I don't even like Tilly so far, as a person or as a character. Still, if she insists on her actual name, it's something that's meaningful to her. It's not even that Hanners is using the wrong name, and Tilly is shrugging and being all "eh, no biggie".
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: St.Clair on 16 Nov 2017, 01:06
"Dah-ta, Day-ta, what's the difference?"
"One is my name.  The other is not."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: traroth on 16 Nov 2017, 01:07
Am I the only one thinking that narrative arc gets old pretty fast? This Tilly thing was mildly amusing at the beginning, but now, I find it mainly boring. Will we have to put up with Hanners introducing Taffy (actually it's Tilly) to the whole casting, now? Wake me up once it's done. Hopefully, Jeph Jacques has something else up his sleeve...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 16 Nov 2017, 01:20
Yey, way to beat a deadhorse with the name thing, Jeff.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: flondrix on 16 Nov 2017, 01:51
I'm sure it has been remarked before, but Dora has become darn near unrecognizable.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Nov 2017, 02:07
The fourth panel was the one that really put the nail on the coffin for me... There's no way in hell I would spend more than 15 minutes (let alone 23!) with such a mindless individual. I can't even feel sorry for her at this point.

What if she's lead into a back room of CoD and the whole main cast are there holding goblets and chanting "Gooble gobble. Gooble gobble. One of us! One of us!" What then?

She'd cooperate and do her damned best to be the best treasurer a Cthonic Secret Society has ever had!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 16 Nov 2017, 03:18
I have to admit, I'm starting to wonder myself where this is going.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 16 Nov 2017, 03:23
I'm sure it has been remarked before, but Dora has become darn near unrecognizable.

I think there has been a sudden shift in some character models which usually go unnoticed over time as changes happen so subtly
(No-ONE looks like their original characters!) :)

But I think quite a few of the main cast have altered quite noticeably over the last month or so...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Nov 2017, 03:31
I have to admit, I'm starting to wonder myself where this is going.

I'm expecting a completely 'wham' revelation about Tilly, possibly next week, that totally changes the trajectory of the arc.

Alternately, there may be a 'in pursuit of mediocrity' ending with Tilly cheerfully accepting Hannelore's instructions to go and walking off with the same upbeat attitude. Because she's only obeying her orders and that's all she's ever done. In so many ways, that complete and total rejection of personal responsibility in what she does could be the most frightening thing about her.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: traroth on 16 Nov 2017, 05:17
Yeah, that's true. Hanners kind of stalked Marten and Faye, in the beginning...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 16 Nov 2017, 07:18
I do love how everyone calmly accepts murder as a possible solution.

 :laugh: :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: anahata on 16 Nov 2017, 08:53
Dora's suggestion of murder might have been in jest, but Tilly's reaction is more unnerving, because she might be taking it literally. Either that or her sense of humour (if she even has one) has been overruled by her "I've got an answer for everything" reflex.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Nov 2017, 09:41

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

My first thought after reading this was "Does giving someone a sock have some sort of symbolic signifigance?".

It's from Harry Potter. Giving a house elf (a kind of slave) an article of clothing sets it free.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: swapna on 16 Nov 2017, 10:15
Also, I'm really bothered by the whole Taffy thing. It's one thing to get confused once, but Tilly said her name for no less than three times. I don't think it's Hanners' being an ass on purpose, it's her not perceiving Tilly as a person - just like her mother.

Taffy really isn't a person, she's a corporate drone. And Hanners needs to not perceive Taffy as a person in order to not be taken advantage of by Taffy, who is basically Beatrice in a passive-aggressive "nice" persona instead of an aggressive "dominant bitch" persona.
She isn't a person, really? I find that disturbing.
If Hanners wanted Tilly to go, she gave her an out. Not a great one, but one that would give Tilly a way to say that she tried everything and would send an unmistakable message to Beatrice.

Is Tillys idiotic commitment to being a PA annoying? Definitely. Is Beatrice incredibly invasive by hiring Tilly and giving her idiotic instructions that basically tell her to override Hanners' wishes? Yeah, she definitely deserves that Hanners has next to no contact with her.

If Hanners doesn't want to give it a try, she should just send her away, but treating her as less than a person? It's just not really funny
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TinPenguin on 16 Nov 2017, 10:36
If Hanners doesn't want to give it a try, she should just send her away, but treating her as less than a person? It's just not really funny

As mentioned previously, though, Tilly is treating Hanners as less than a person too. She seems to be seeing her as an objective, a task, a nut to crack, not a real person who might find this all very uncomfortable.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Dr. ROFLPWN on 16 Nov 2017, 11:08
If Hanners doesn't want to give it a try, she should just send her away, but treating her as less than a person? It's just not really funny

As mentioned previously, though, Tilly is treating Hanners as less than a person too. She seems to be seeing her as an objective, a task, a nut to crack, not a real person who might find this all very uncomfortable.

Yeah dogg someone who is explicitly trained to see to your every need, has been nothing but unfailingly polite and subservient, and whom you agreed to give a chance definitely deserves to be dehumanized and threatened with death lol

Y'all hate on Beatrice, but at least she doesn't try and make these kinds of justifications, damn
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TinPenguin on 16 Nov 2017, 11:28
Polite and subservient would have fucked off the moment they realised they weren't wanted.

Besides, my comment was in response to a discussion on misnaming, not murder.

As for casual death threats, though, they've been a staple of QC, since, uh, comic #4 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4).
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: themacnut on 16 Nov 2017, 11:55
And please note it wasn't Hanners who made the death threat, but Dora.

Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Storel on 16 Nov 2017, 13:01
As for casual death threats, though, they've been a staple of QC, since, uh, comic #4 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4).

She only threatened wounding in that comic, not killing.

Granted, if you stab someone and then poop in the wound, you are doing your best to give them a nasty infection which might -- I say, might -- eventually kill them, but I can't agree that it counts as an actual death threat.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 16 Nov 2017, 13:33
As for casual death threats, though, they've been a staple of QC, since, uh, comic #4 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4).

She only threatened wounding in that comic, not killing.

Granted, if you stab someone and then poop in the wound, you are doing your best to give them a nasty infection which might -- I say, might -- eventually kill them, but I can't agree that it counts as an actual death threat.
The ER physician will most certainly treat it as a life-threatening injury - provided you make it to the ER in time.  Midsummer and out in the boondocks, you might not make it out to the county road to meet the aid car (if you had enough of a cell signal to call 911) before it goes septic.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Nov 2017, 13:37
You know, I really am filled with disbelief that anyone here actually thinks that Dora was being serious. The real story here isn't that Dora idly made the suggestion that Hannelore should kill her way out of this predicament. The story here is that Tilly first took it seriously and, secondly, has the skill set to abet such a crime!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 16 Nov 2017, 13:38
Yeah dogg someone who is explicitly trained to see to your every need, has been nothing but unfailingly polite and subservient, and whom you agreed to give a chance definitely deserves to be dehumanized and threatened with death lol

Y'all hate on Beatrice, but at least she doesn't try and make these kinds of justifications, damn

Taffy has repeatedly demonstrated that despite being polite and socially subservient, she is not actually seeing to any of Hannelore's needs, she is executing Beatrice's agenda to manipulate Hannelore. Again: she's Beatrice's agent, not Hanners' assistant in any meaningful sense.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 16 Nov 2017, 14:06
I'm pretty sure that Hannelore calling her 'Taffy' is supposed to be some kind of running joke in the same vein as Mr Burns seemingly neurological inability to remember Homer Simpson's name.

Yes, I think so too.

I suspect that certain forumites' deliberate misspelling of her name is more malicious, though.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 16 Nov 2017, 15:42
Certain Forumite here!
In my first post, I misnamed Tilly as 'Tillie' -- an honest mistake. Since then, i have conflated 'Tillie' and 'Taffy' into "Taffie", going along with the gag.
My apologies to any I may have offended.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Nov 2017, 17:41
I'm sure Toffee won't mind.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 16 Nov 2017, 18:29
Another certain forumite checking in.

Tizzy reminds me of a telemarketer who won't quit calling or a peddler who won't get his foot out of your door.  They very deliberately take advantage of most people's hesitation to suspend good manners.  It's too damn bad (as opposed to "sorry"), but I feel no pangs of regret for violating social norms when dealing with people who are themselves violating social norms by invading my privacy in the first place.

Matilda's behavior is indefensible.  I can't think of anyone other than a telemarketer or a foot-in-the-door peddler who would think otherwise.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 16 Nov 2017, 18:44
It's alright, I get it. I'm more amused than anything else. Especially with the leap from Tizzy to Matilda.  :lol:

I'm sure Toffee won't mind.

You reminded me of a Bob Mortimer moment (https://youtu.be/Rqmd39GdDww?t=5m6s) on Would I Lie to You?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: St.Clair on 16 Nov 2017, 19:12
They're good dogs, Tolly.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 16 Nov 2017, 19:31
Comic's up and I'm utterly disappointed that the title of today's comic isn't "Tilly Has No Chilly"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 16 Nov 2017, 19:32
Especially with the leap from Tizzy to Matilda.
"Tilly" is most commonly a diminutive of "Matilda," (https://www.behindthename.com/name/tilly) so that's actually a return to formality.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 16 Nov 2017, 19:34
Ah! Thanks, I didn't realise that but maybe I should have guessed.

COMIC

It strikes me today that Tilly is acting like an overenthusiastic eager-to-please child.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Squiddlywinx on 16 Nov 2017, 19:50
Bleh!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 16 Nov 2017, 20:04
An explosion is approaching.   And I don't mean the espresso machine.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 16 Nov 2017, 20:11
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheBiscuit on 16 Nov 2017, 20:21
It is exceedingly difficult to imagine any plot twist that could make Taffy sympathetic or humanizing, given that she literally demonstrates that she has no respect for boundaries unless backed by force and is, in fact, a terrible PA whose "careful research" has not included the slightest familiarization with what the person she is "assisting" needs or wants. She pretty much openly admits that her actual job is to force Hannelore to become the way her mother wants.
I'm in such strong agreement with you. Various people on the forum have expressed concern for her wellbeing, if she returns to her employer as a failure. I recognise that this is valid, but in Hannelore's position, I wouldn't it worry me even a little. Maybe if Tilly were just a little bit considerate of Hannelore's wishes, then I'd be concerned for her, but as it stands I am not.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 16 Nov 2017, 20:32
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....

I came here to say that exact same thing.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Shjade on 16 Nov 2017, 20:35
*browses all the Tilly consternation still going on while reading new comic*

...

Is that Marigold with the cut & dyed hair on the far left?!

Edit: had to back up to #3425 to find the most recent Marigold appearance (unless I missed one) and: no, false alarm. Even if the head shape differences are change in art style, I forgot about the distinctive moles above her jaw. Neeevermind.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 16 Nov 2017, 20:39
Doubt it. I think Jeph usually peppers in some friends of his as background characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DarthSox on 16 Nov 2017, 20:44
I should have posted yesterday, but I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that Tilly made Hannelore late. That fact alone should prove that she's worse than useless as a PA, as she's actually making Hannelore worse at her job than without her. Between that and today's "climbing on the counter like a six-year-old", I am really starting to hate this character.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Tova on 16 Nov 2017, 20:45
Is that Marigold with the cut & dyed hair on the far left?!

Edit: had to back up to #3425 to find the most recent Marigold appearance (unless I missed one) and: no, false alarm. Even if the head shape differences are change in art style, I forgot about the distinctive moles above her jaw. Neeevermind.

I was wondering that myself.

I mean... it looks a lot like Marigold except that it doesn't look at all like Marigold. If that makes any sense at all. It's as though it's a Marigold cosplay or something.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Penquin47 on 16 Nov 2017, 21:03
It's not Marigold.  It's Bleminda. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3126)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: cesium133 on 16 Nov 2017, 21:08
Definitely looks more like Marigold than Bleminda.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Penquin47 on 16 Nov 2017, 21:11
It's Bleminda.  The two-tone hair and N7 (BioWare) jacket are giveaways.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 16 Nov 2017, 21:11
It's not Marigold.  It's Bleminda. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3126)

I wonder if the joke will be that she finally gets Bleminda's name right. 

And while that's not violating the rule about being behind the counter I don't think Dora will approve. 

Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: ChipNoir on 16 Nov 2017, 21:14
Comedy is pain. Tilly is 'a'  pain. Ergo, she is comedic gold.

Because I'll be honest, I'll take this as a welcome relief over worrying about the genuine pain that any emotional meltdowns forth coming from either Marten/Claire or Bubbles/Faye may yet herald given the current turn of events.

I'm along for this ride, at least for another week or two.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: MrNumbers on 16 Nov 2017, 22:55
Hopefully Teddy isn't a 'real' character, but is like the Vespa Avenger; Someone amusing for a few strips to show character growth and where other characters are at, then disposed of and never seen or heard of/from again.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Nov 2017, 23:26
I think that things are going in the direction that I first speculated towards the start of the arc. Tilly is going to be so annoying and intrusive that Hannelore won't be able to tolerate her for a whole morning, let alone 48 hours. She'll be fired and on her way back to Beatrice with a blistering performance review of the sort that can be summed up as "goodbye career".

IMO it is only then, with her career in ruins and the very real possibility that she's about to have a protracted period of unemployment, will we meet the real Tilly and find out what Jeph wants to do with her. I can see three possibilities:
Yeah, there's the possibility that she may just shrug and walk away if fired but, somehow, that would be an anticlimax. I can't see Jeph going that way.

The observer is definitely Bleminda (note the N7 hoodie). Given the amount of weirdness she's encountered at Coffee of Doom, mostly at Emily's hands, she probably doesn't think what's happening right now is particularly different!

P.S.:
I agree with the opinion I saw on the Subreddit that Tilly isn't actually a very good PA. Why isn't she out buying Hannelore's new 'phone? Why isn't she exploring the town and spending time learning new ways to do her "boss's" bidding by identifying locations and persons of interest? Hanging around Hannelore like a love-struck puppy is not good PA behaviour! I'm wondering if she is actually a hopeless loser who no-one wants hanging around ECI's HQ and Beatrice is using Hannelore as garbage disposal. Alternately, maybe she's the daughter of a senior board member who wants her to have a 'responsible' job but lacks the actual ability to do so; Beatrice used the Dilbert Principle - 'Promote' her to a job where she can do no damage other than to herself.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DaiJB on 16 Nov 2017, 23:33
An explosion is approaching.   And I don't mean the espresso machine.

Well, knowing the reputation of Coffee of Doom, exploding espresso machines could still be involved :-D

Oh Tilly, please think - this is Hannelore's work. She serves coffee. You are going to have to sit down and watch your "employer" perform service industry work for the next eight hours - and at a wage probably inferior to your own...  :-P

If that doesn't get Tilly pondering the ridiculousness of her position, nothing will!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 17 Nov 2017, 00:47
right so i'm in a very bad place emotionally these days, but boy do i hate taffy

i mean i'm not saying it's a bad arc but if i'm *supposed* to hate that boundary-violating pushy little jerk, well mission accomplished.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 17 Nov 2017, 00:49
'ooh look at me the objectively evil corporate murderer mom ordered me to go take over her daughter's life i better do that i'm all cheery and excited i'm taffy woooooooooo'

:/

Edited because smilies ruin everything
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 17 Nov 2017, 00:51
it is a cute design jeph is right about that.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: oddtail on 17 Nov 2017, 01:11
OK, so I was all ready to jump on the "hate Tilly" bandwagon, but today's comic actually made me change my mind somewhat.

Why? Because of the way she reacts here.

Tilly is jumping over a counter, which to me reads less as a "she's overeager" and more like "she's so desperate to 'help' that it's becoming unnerving". In a vacuum, it would be a cute little moment, but she's jumping the counter in a *complete one-eighty* to what she was doing a second ago. Yes, she was told by Dora to not be behind the counter, but she obliged, and after like a few seconds, she seems to have completely ignored, disregarded or forgotten it.

To me, it doesn't read as overeager behaviour. To me, it reads like an automatic response of a kind that's more than a little disconcerting. I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but such drastic shifts of behaviour for a minor reason suggest to me that she's been brainwashed, or abused (and not in a comedic way), or otherwise forced to "help" Hannelore to the exclusion of everything else. This is one step beyond "comical" to me, especially considering who her employer is. Tilly was never funny to me, but now her downright Pavlovian responses are more chilling than anything. YMMV.

Incidentally, in a world with super-technology, with sapient AI and basically on the verge of the Singularity (or beyond it, depending on what we don't see), people like Beatrice are still in power. Beatrice is not merely a "bad rich person", she is implied to be able to do whatever she wants. Yeah, do NOT sign me up for a future like this.

EDIT: also, I know Hannelore is a popular character, but as much as I dislike Tilly, the reactions to her seem like a "we know this person, so we'll hate that other person", which is a reaction I (in my opinion) have seen in the forum before. I will be very happy if this new character goes away soon, because she's annoying and not interesting, but I still think getting someone's name constantly wrong just because they were forced upon you is a shitty thing to do. I understand Hanners' reaction, but that doesn't mean I like it. And I don't like how it's apparently played up for comedy's sake. It's still not funny, to me personally.

EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Moggie on 17 Nov 2017, 01:34
Dora has been known to project her desire of murder to the "answers" Mïeville "has given her".
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zog on 17 Nov 2017, 01:49

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

My first thought after reading this was "Does giving someone a sock have some sort of symbolic signifigance?".

It's from Harry Potter. Giving a house elf (a kind of slave) an article of clothing sets it free.

The stupid thing is that i have seen that movie more times than i can count and still did not get it until I got back tonight and read Pilchard123's response.  I must be slowing down.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 17 Nov 2017, 02:31
Another certain forumite checking in.

Tizzy reminds me of a telemarketer who won't quit calling or a peddler who won't get his foot out of your door.  They very deliberately take advantage of most people's hesitation to suspend good manners.  It's too damn bad (as opposed to "sorry"), but I feel no pangs of regret for violating social norms when dealing with people who are themselves violating social norms by invading my privacy in the first place.

Matilda's behavior is indefensible.  I can't think of anyone other than a telemarketer or a foot-in-the-door peddler who would think otherwise.
I can. Political pundits, CEOs, and lobbyists.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Marco on 17 Nov 2017, 03:08
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....

What? The cannon isn't working?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 17 Nov 2017, 03:29
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....

What? The cannon isn't working?

The bean counters are on her case about it; apparently the Employers' Liability premiums are getting too high.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 17 Nov 2017, 03:50
I agree with brasca on the "seize her destiny" thing because Beatrice sent Tilly there to groom Hannelore for business. Regarding Tilly not correcting Hannelore if she got mad and called her Taffy, I think that would require Hannelore's personality to be much closer to Beatrice's, which thankfully it isn't.
Beatrice flat out says that Tilly is there because Ellicot-Chathams need assistants (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3607).
It's both a point of pride for Beatrice and likely her specific world view on the nature of the general social-contract. Think of the Frieza  Returns arc in TFS DBZ Abridged. When Frieza says he can drive, King Cold states "Son, we don't drive ourselves, driving is for the help." Which King Cold says more sternly when Frieza tries to rebut him on the point.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 17 Nov 2017, 03:55
It's not Marigold.  It's Bleminda. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3126)

I wonder if the joke will be that she finally gets Bleminda's name right. 

By this time she's probably just giving her name as "Bleminda".

And I'm honestly surprised that so many people failed to recognize her. This is, what, her fourth or fifth appearance? She's practically a regular character now. In a few years she'll be promoted to the main cast. By 2030 all of the current main characters will have been retired, and Bleminda and Melon will be the primary characters.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 17 Nov 2017, 04:25
By 2030 all of the current main characters will have been retired, and Bleminda and Melon will be the primary characters.
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...  In 2030 (assuming comic time == calendar time)
 - Dora will be the high side of 40, and wondering why she no longer feels as free and easy with the kids working in the shop as she used to.
 - Marten and Claire - not going to go there
 - Marigold and Dale have 3 kids and have disappeared from the strip
 - Bubbles is still running the shop, with Sam as a key employee.

feel free to continue folks...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 17 Nov 2017, 04:37

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

My first thought after reading this was "Does giving someone a sock have some sort of symbolic signifigance?".

It's from Harry Potter. Giving a house elf (a kind of slave) an article of clothing sets it free.

The stupid thing is that i have seen that movie more times than i can count and still did not get it until I got back tonight and read Pilchard123's response.  I must be slowing down.

Yeah, given that my comment was all but ignored but someone "quoting" Dobby's line after it has been liked off the planet - I don't think you were alone!

(Or maybe I'm just not well liked!! Sob!!!!)   :wow:
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: traroth on 17 Nov 2017, 04:51
By 2030 all of the current main characters will have been retired, and Bleminda and Melon will be the primary characters.
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...  In 2030 (assuming comic time == calendar time)
 - Dora will be the high side of 40, and wondering why she no longer feels as free and easy with the kids working in the shop as she used to.
 - Marten and Claire - not going to go there
 - Marigold and Dale have 3 kids and have disappeared from the strip
 - Bubbles is still running the shop, with Sam as a key employee.

feel free to continue folks...

I feel so depressed, now...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: WoaLG on 17 Nov 2017, 05:26
- Marten and Claire - not going to go there

I must know. What happens to Marten and Claire?!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 17 Nov 2017, 05:30
I must know. What happens to Marten and Claire?!

Stuff.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 17 Nov 2017, 05:33

EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.

That rule always bugged me because I have some cognitive issues and genuinely misspell names sometimes.

I think this is being excused because her misspelled name is a running gag in the comic.

Though, I think it may be because Hanners isn't really listening to Tilly and is not hearing the correction. That's rude I guess but isn't some sort of diabolic plan to bother her.

That said, I really don't think Beatrice would/will do anything bad to Tilly if Hanners doesn't keep. I mean, as a plot point it makes sense but idk.
What I will say is that I hope Dora bans her from her from the shop.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 17 Nov 2017, 05:33
I must know. What happens to Marten and Claire?!

Claire is now the Deputy Head Librarian of the Library of Congress (Antique Books). Marten is perfectly happy being her house-husband and raising their two adoptive kids (Martine and Clive). He continues to write his blog, which is now re-blogged and syndicated by various large pop-culture review sites and also record with Deathmøle. Both of these semi-jobs generate his own (somewhat inconsistent) income.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 17 Nov 2017, 05:35


EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.

Maybe
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 17 Nov 2017, 05:35
It's not Marigold.  It's Bleminda. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3126)

I wonder if the joke will be that she finally gets Bleminda's name right. 

By this time she's probably just giving her name as "Bleminda".

And I'm honestly surprised that so many people failed to recognize her. This is, what, her fourth or fifth appearance? She's practically a regular character now. In a few years she'll be promoted to the main cast. By 2030 all of the current main characters will have been retired, and Bleminda and Melon will be the primary characters.

I actually thought tha character was Marigold too at first glance but then I realized it was just a regular customer.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 17 Nov 2017, 05:38
All I know is my country is full of murderous jerks and their pushy 'well-meaning' lackeys and I'm of a low opinion of the lot these days. Like I said, I'm in a horrendous mood in general, so grump grump grr, to put it nice and fluffy for this sub-forum.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 Nov 2017, 05:48
By 2030 all of the current main characters will have been retired, and Bleminda and Melon will be the primary characters.
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...  In 2030 (assuming comic time == calendar time)
 - Dora will be the high side of 40, and wondering why she no longer feels as free and easy with the kids working in the shop as she used to.
 - Marten and Claire - not going to go there
 - Marigold and Dale have 3 kids and have disappeared from the strip
 - Bubbles is still running the shop, with Sam as a key employee.

feel free to continue folks...

- Faye is incarcerated in VR jail for finally snapping and crushing Pintsize’s AI core. The judge reduced the sentence to one year in virtual Hawaii when she examined fragments of Pintsize’s personality.
- Clinton went for a hike, enough food and water for one day. His hand gets caught under a boulder and Clinton is trapped for five days. Desperate to live, Clinton cut his own hand off with a dull knife. Until he remembered that the hand was detachable.
- Steve is still eating cereal.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 17 Nov 2017, 06:12
- Marten and Claire - not going to go there

I must know. What happens to Marten and Claire?!

They split up.
Everyone thought it was for the best...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TinPenguin on 17 Nov 2017, 06:38
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...

Wait, when was that?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: mercykills on 17 Nov 2017, 07:12
OK, so I was all ready to jump on the "hate Tilly" bandwagon, but today's comic actually made me change my mind somewhat.

Why? Because of the way she reacts here.

Tilly is jumping over a counter, which to me reads less as a "she's overeager" and more like "she's so desperate to 'help' that it's becoming unnerving". In a vacuum, it would be a cute little moment, but she's jumping the counter in a *complete one-eighty* to what she was doing a second ago. Yes, she was told by Dora to not be behind the counter, but she obliged, and after like a few seconds, she seems to have completely ignored, disregarded or forgotten it.

To me, it doesn't read as overeager behaviour. To me, it reads like an automatic response of a kind that's more than a little disconcerting. I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but such drastic shifts of behaviour for a minor reason suggest to me that she's been brainwashed, or abused (and not in a comedic way), or otherwise forced to "help" Hannelore to the exclusion of everything else. This is one step beyond "comical" to me, especially considering who her employer is. Tilly was never funny to me, but now her downright Pavlovian responses are more chilling than anything. YMMV.

Incidentally, in a world with super-technology, with sapient AI and basically on the verge of the Singularity (or beyond it, depending on what we don't see), people like Beatrice are still in power. Beatrice is not merely a "bad rich person", she is implied to be able to do whatever she wants. Yeah, do NOT sign me up for a future like this.

EDIT: also, I know Hannelore is a popular character, but as much as I dislike Tilly, the reactions to her seem like a "we know this person, so we'll hate that other person", which is a reaction I (in my opinion) have seen in the forum before. I will be very happy if this new character goes away soon, because she's annoying and not interesting, but I still think getting someone's name constantly wrong just because they were forced upon you is a shitty thing to do. I understand Hanners' reaction, but that doesn't mean I like it. And I don't like how it's apparently played up for comedy's sake. It's still not funny, to me personally.

EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.

jfc. No.

No. No. No. No. No. To ALL of this, 'No'. Please let us not make the creepy stalker, Taffy, into a sympathetic character. And yes, a stranger who comes into someone's life randomly and then will NOT leave once said person has made clear that they do NOT want this stranger around them is the definition of stalker and is one of the primary reasons restraining orders exist.

Atm, Taffy is using two of the main weapons in a creeper's arsenal; 1.) Gaslighting("no, no, Hannelore. Remember you want me to be here cause I'm useful(according to me). Why are you all of a sudden acting like you don't?") and 2.) Banking on the fact that the person they're stalking hates confrontation, is embarrassed that they're in this situation to begin with and/or won't set aside "decorum" and blow up on them like they deserve.

This is a serious issue that thousands deal with everyday but I guess we'll ignore  our collective skin-crawling and treat it as cute and funny cause Taffy's klutzy and she calls Hannelore ma'am or some shit. >.>
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 17 Nov 2017, 07:18
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...

Wait, when was that?
might have been a guest strip now I think of it...

later...
Indeed it was. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=475)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: oddtail on 17 Nov 2017, 07:40
OK, so I was all ready to jump on the "hate Tilly" bandwagon, but today's comic actually made me change my mind somewhat.

Why? Because of the way she reacts here.

Tilly is jumping over a counter, which to me reads less as a "she's overeager" and more like "she's so desperate to 'help' that it's becoming unnerving". In a vacuum, it would be a cute little moment, but she's jumping the counter in a *complete one-eighty* to what she was doing a second ago. Yes, she was told by Dora to not be behind the counter, but she obliged, and after like a few seconds, she seems to have completely ignored, disregarded or forgotten it.

To me, it doesn't read as overeager behaviour. To me, it reads like an automatic response of a kind that's more than a little disconcerting. I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but such drastic shifts of behaviour for a minor reason suggest to me that she's been brainwashed, or abused (and not in a comedic way), or otherwise forced to "help" Hannelore to the exclusion of everything else. This is one step beyond "comical" to me, especially considering who her employer is. Tilly was never funny to me, but now her downright Pavlovian responses are more chilling than anything. YMMV.

Incidentally, in a world with super-technology, with sapient AI and basically on the verge of the Singularity (or beyond it, depending on what we don't see), people like Beatrice are still in power. Beatrice is not merely a "bad rich person", she is implied to be able to do whatever she wants. Yeah, do NOT sign me up for a future like this.

EDIT: also, I know Hannelore is a popular character, but as much as I dislike Tilly, the reactions to her seem like a "we know this person, so we'll hate that other person", which is a reaction I (in my opinion) have seen in the forum before. I will be very happy if this new character goes away soon, because she's annoying and not interesting, but I still think getting someone's name constantly wrong just because they were forced upon you is a shitty thing to do. I understand Hanners' reaction, but that doesn't mean I like it. And I don't like how it's apparently played up for comedy's sake. It's still not funny, to me personally.

EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.

jfc. No.

No. No. No. No. No. To ALL of this, 'No'. Please let us not make the creepy stalker, Taffy, into a sympathetic character. And yes, a stranger who comes into someone's life randomly and then will NOT leave once said person has made clear that they do NOT want this stranger around them is the definition of stalker and is one of the primary reasons restraining orders exist.

Atm, Taffy is using two of the main weapons in a creeper's arsenal; 1.) Gaslighting("no, no, Hannelore. Remember you want me to be here cause I'm useful(according to me). Why are you all of a sudden acting like you don't?") and 2.) Banking on the fact that the person they're stalking hates confrontation, is embarrassed that they're in this situation to begin with and/or won't set aside "decorum" and blow up on them like they deserve.

This is a serious issue that thousands deal with everyday but I guess we'll ignore  our collective skin-crawling and treat it as cute and funny cause Taffy's klutzy and she calls Hannelore ma'am or some shit. >.>

I didn't say she was a sympathetic character. I said I dislike her as a person and as a character, didn't I?

I'm just saying that her eagerness to "help" is too over the top to be funny, in my opinion, and it verges on creepy and disturbing. And I see disturbing reasons that might be true.

It wouldn't change my opinion of the character anyway. I'm not sure where you got from my words that I see her as sympathetic. "I hope she's gone pretty soon" was too subtle? I'm not sure how I could have said it much more directly...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: blt on 17 Nov 2017, 08:25
Jeph did do one strip of the characters in middle age...

Wait, when was that?
might have been a guest strip now I think of it...

later...
Indeed it was. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=475)

This comic really disturbs me and I can't put my finger on why.  All I know is those weird dead faces are going to be burned into my nightmares now.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Cornelius on 17 Nov 2017, 08:28
The faces... the stilted language... but then, it is a nightmare.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Nov 2017, 08:34
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....

What? The cannon isn't working?

She already tried the cannon. And the sharks. Both with and without lasers. But Tilly keeps coming back....
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: BenRG on 17 Nov 2017, 08:41
"Old Miss-us Cee had trouble of her own,
She had a blonde-haired girl who won't leave her alone!
Steps were needed with deception as its' key!
One wannabe PA! How hard could it be?
(How hard, how hard) How hard could it be? (How hard could it be?)"

"But Tilly came back the very next day!
Tilly came back! We thought she was a gonner
but Tilly came back! She just wouldn't stay away (away, away away)
(Wouldn't stay away!) Wouldn't stay away!"
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zebediah on 17 Nov 2017, 08:51
I can see it now: Hannelore vs. Tilly is going to degenerate into this (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1826).
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: heyjames4 on 17 Nov 2017, 10:25
I could see Hannelore  'ordering' Tilly to get a mental health assessment, put a down payment on a house, and/or engage in other forms of expensive self-care. All charged to the company account, on the grounds that Ms. Elicott-Chatham needs an assistant whose got thier own house in order.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: swapna on 17 Nov 2017, 14:46
- Marten and Claire - not going to go there

I must know. What happens to Marten and Claire?!

They split up.
Everyone thought it was for the best...
Yes, please. First thing Monday morning wouldn't be fast enough.


(click to show/hide)
EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.
Yeah, that apparently only goes for characters the mods care about. Or nicknames other characters use are okay also, even if they're malicious? Who knows.

Quote

jfc. No.

No. No. No. No. No. To ALL of this, 'No'. Please let us not make the creepy stalker, Taffy, into a sympathetic character. And yes, a stranger who comes into someone's life randomly and then will NOT leave once said person has made clear that they do NOT want this stranger around them is the definition of stalker and is one of the primary reasons restraining orders exist.

Atm, Taffy is using two of the main weapons in a creeper's arsenal; 1.) Gaslighting("no, no, Hannelore. Remember you want me to be here cause I'm useful(according to me). Why are you all of a sudden acting like you don't?") and 2.) Banking on the fact that the person they're stalking hates confrontation, is embarrassed that they're in this situation to begin with and/or won't set aside "decorum" and blow up on them like they deserve.

This is a serious issue that thousands deal with everyday but I guess we'll ignore  our collective skin-crawling and treat it as cute and funny cause Taffy's klutzy and she calls Hannelore ma'am or some shit. >.>

Yes, Tilly's not a sympathetic character, but we know that Hannelore is able and willing to assert herself, if and when necessary. Tilly offered her to go - it's like a telemarketer. You have to end the call. She has to send her away, and if she feels stalked, she can call the police. With Tilly's phone. She has a Winslows eyewitness testimony (should be even better than a human's, it's not as if screwing with AI memory is an easy/legal process).

So, Hannelore thinks Tilly is not as bad - annoying and persistent, instead of a super creepy asshole that makes your skin crawl. Hanners doesn't feel threatened, she's just annoyed, otherwise she'd have used her taser/baton/called the police.  And I agree, the arc isn't great - even May/Claire/Brun were more sympathetic when they were introduced. (Clinton was way (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1902) way worse (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1908); imho, he still is.)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Nov 2017, 15:25
EDIT 2: also also, wasn't it against the forum's rules (and enforced, IIRC) to misspell a real person's *or* a character's name? I didn't know it included a "I don't like this character, so I can do that" clause.

Yeah, that apparently only goes for characters the mods care about. Or nicknames other characters use are okay also, even if they're malicious? Who knows.

The relevant paragraph in my expansion of Jeph's rules reads:

6- Write English.  There are many non-native English users here, so we don't expect grammatical perfection and consistency of spelling.  But please, no 1337-speak, ALL CAPS, or excessive use of smileys :evil:, marquees, fancy fonts and colours and such; and please try to spell people's (and characters') names right - it's only polite.  Oh, and Internet memes or image macros?  Passé. There is nothing exciting or new about any of them, and they just make people sigh when they see them.

The mods are perfectly capable of applying common sense (in situations like the current one) and sympathy (recognising that mistakes happen, and that some people have a harder time avoiding them than others).  If you disagree with this, please give evidence of our failure so that we can correct it (there's a thread (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,29318.0.html) for discussing moderation decisions and policy) - demonising the mods without that is not helpful to anyone.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: shanejayell on 17 Nov 2017, 15:53
Tilly is getting creepy, I must say...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Nov 2017, 18:04
Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Do you think you can be PA to an Ellicott-Chatham without paying your dues first?

Prove yourself. Spend two years and show me you can bring order to the life of someone living in chaos.

Your assignment is named "Pintsize".
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: KnightRider007 on 17 Nov 2017, 18:09
If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 17 Nov 2017, 19:32
I agree with the opinion I saw on the Subreddit that Tilly isn't actually a very good PA. Why isn't she out buying Hannelore's new 'phone? Why isn't she exploring the town and spending time learning new ways to do her "boss's" bidding by identifying locations and persons of interest? Hanging around Hannelore like a love-struck puppy is not good PA behaviour! I'm wondering if she is actually a hopeless loser who no-one wants hanging around ECI's HQ and Beatrice is using Hannelore as garbage disposal. Alternately, maybe she's the daughter of a senior board member who wants her to have a 'responsible' job but lacks the actual ability to do so; Beatrice used the Dilbert Principle - 'Promote' her to a job where she can do no damage other than to herself.

I reiterate that everything Taffy does is consistent with her actual assignment being, "Gaslight and manipulate Hannelore into being her mother's daughter."
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: OldGoat on 17 Nov 2017, 21:07
Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Do you think you can be PA to an Ellicott-Chatham without paying your dues first?

Prove yourself. Spend two years and show me you can bring order to the life of someone living in chaos.

Your assignment is named "Pintsize".
He'd be making videos of her doing unspeakable things with integrated circuit modules within two weeks.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: citizenfive on 17 Nov 2017, 21:56
I'm beginning to think Beatrice didn't send Tilly here because Hannelore needs a personal assistant, but rather because she just needed some way to get rid of her....

What? The cannon isn't working?

She already tried the cannon. And the sharks. Both with and without lasers. But Tilly keeps coming back....

She's like Randy in that she cannot die!
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: brasca on 17 Nov 2017, 22:37
I think that things are going in the direction that I first speculated towards the start of the arc. Tilly is going to be so annoying and intrusive that Hannelore won't be able to tolerate her for a whole morning, let alone 48 hours. She'll be fired and on her way back to Beatrice with a blistering performance review of the sort that can be summed up as "goodbye career".

IMO it is only then, with her career in ruins and the very real possibility that she's about to have a protracted period of unemployment, will we meet the real Tilly and find out what Jeph wants to do with her. I can see three possibilities:
  • She's actually quite nasty and, when fired, proceeds to be very verbally abusive to Hannelore: "This is what your mom really thinks of you, you defective failure!"
  • Hannelore had been 'last chance saloon' and, facing the total ruin of her dreams, Tilly breaks down and ends up under Winslow's guard to ensure that she doesn't do anything stupid;
  • Tilly doesn't have much pride; we have a wholly skin-crawlingly embarrassing moment when she begs for her job and even offers 'personal services' in exchange for mercy. As well as tugging Hannelore's heart-strings, it makes one wonder just how bad things at ECI might be.
Yeah, there's the possibility that she may just shrug and walk away if fired but, somehow, that would be an anticlimax. I can't see Jeph going that way.

Interesting scenarios, but I think if Tilly really wanted revenge she could just call up Hannelore after getting a safe distance and say "Hi Ms. Ellicott-Chatman I just remembered leaving a booger somewhere in your apartment.  Have fun finding it."

P.S.:
I agree with the opinion I saw on the Subreddit that Tilly isn't actually a very good PA. Why isn't she out buying Hannelore's new 'phone? Why isn't she exploring the town and spending time learning new ways to do her "boss's" bidding by identifying locations and persons of interest? Hanging around Hannelore like a love-struck puppy is not good PA behaviour! I'm wondering if she is actually a hopeless loser who no-one wants hanging around ECI's HQ and Beatrice is using Hannelore as garbage disposal. Alternately, maybe she's the daughter of a senior board member who wants her to have a 'responsible' job but lacks the actual ability to do so; Beatrice used the Dilbert Principle - 'Promote' her to a job where she can do no damage other than to herself.

I seriously doubt someone like Beatrice would keep a failure around instead of firing her or worse and I doubt being the daughter of a board member would make any difference.  I think this is all on purpose.  It can't be a coincidence that just when Winslow gets a new body and starts exploring his options that Hannelore gets a new assistant.  Beatrice has likely monitored her and decided this was the time to present her with an assistant, but one that would nudge her in the direction she wants. 

However, since so many people on this board have been jumping to conclusions I think I'll try a few fun ones.  Perhaps Tilly isn't actually the assistant that Beatrice chose.  I can see it now.  Hannelore dismisses Tilly after 48 hours and soon after gets a knock on her door from a Tilly Birch apologizing for being so late.  The Tilly we know gets into a car driven by Spookybot.  As the car drives away Tilly morphs into another Spookybot and says "she's going to be a tougher nut to crack than we thought."

Another possibility is Tilly is unrelated to any of the characters, but a mystical guide similar to The Venture Brothers' Dr. Killinger.   
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 18 Nov 2017, 02:05
The mods are perfectly capable of applying common sense (in situations like the current one)
And of course in this case getting the name wrong is 'canon' as I believe the saying goes, so I submit that for the moment, no matter how iffy the spelling, and how large the tally of mis-spellings is, Tilly/Taffy for comic effect is reasonably fair game.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 18 Nov 2017, 03:18
... You can't apply population averages to individuals.

If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago...

I thought the first post was rather insightful - don't know whether we'd agree on much in our politics, but its always refreshing to see someone using their headmeats for its intended purpose. Certainly can't be said for all people in discussions around gender/social justice issues.

Second post seems like your forgetting your own (sensible) stance, though. I guess it's pretty rare for someone - regardless of their gender - to be arrested for stalking without someone else pressing charges against them first. The impact of stalking is in the mind of the victim, and most definitions require a pattern of behaviour rather than a single action - without additional information, it's not easy to for a cop passing by to determine at a glance whether someone is being stalked (unlike, e.g. witnessing a burglary, theft or assault).

So no, I don't think a male Tilly would have been arrested by now, all other things being equal.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 18 Nov 2017, 04:06
Apologies for double-post & wall of text - Allow me to make an idiot of myself trying to 'mediate' here:

To me, it doesn't read as overeager behaviour. To me, it reads like an automatic response of a kind that's more than a little disconcerting. I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but such drastic shifts of behaviour for a minor reason suggest to me that she's been brainwashed, or abused (and not in a comedic way), or otherwise forced to "help" Hannelore to the exclusion of everything else. This is one step beyond "comical" to me, especially considering who her employer is. Tilly was never funny to me, but now her downright Pavlovian responses are more chilling than anything. YMMV.

My apologies if I'm trying to explain to you stuff that you already know by heart:
There's people who display that kind of behaviour deliberately, and it is part of the abuse they wreak on others. Yes, they may have been abused themselves in the past, but note that some habitual abusers are very well-versed in turning this into a tool to get their victim to postpone insisting on their boundaries being respected

What happened in the past to a stalker/abuser always matters less than their stopping their shit, right now.

(Yes, personal experience, btw - though mine was so brief & comparatively harmless that I hesitate even mentioning it knowing what others here have gone through. It wears you down into a shadow of yourself in a matter of weeks. Even if you're a six-foot, 180 pounds guy - I remember considering changing my ringtone because my old one made my heart race. I remember almost giving up trying to explain to my family why they please neverever tell this person anything about my whereabouts, don't accept any letters, messages or gifts for me and the feelings of shame and confusion and the fear that they'd think I was the one going crazy. I remember my steadfast belief in my sanity becoming frazzled.)

Note that I'm not saying you're wrong for seeing Tilly the way you do - I'm just saying that it looks a bit like you're trying to make sense of abusive/boundary-disrespecting behaviour from within a normal-person view of interpersonal interaction. Not only is that nigh impossible, that view can be insanely frustrating to someone who experiences stalking/abuse, because a lot of abusers are the world's leading experts in making their abuse appear to bystanders superficially like normal interactions. This can be part of the abusers strategy of isolating their victim socially and cutting them off from their emotional support - the freaked-out, emotional person struggling to explain how a superficially harmless and mundane interaction brings them close to tears of rage is always in a worse position explaining themselves than the ostensibly calm, concerned person they're freaking out about. If the victim is rebuked and believes they were over-reacting this can seamlessly lead into heavy-duty gaslighting and other shit that' hard to come back from. I acknowledge not knowing who Tilly is in Jeph's mind - let's just say that if I saw someone behaving like this, I wouldn't consider it a red flag so much as 1982 Red Army parade.


TL; DR - Way I see it, this is less about what you post, or how you view the interaction, but about the past interactions some of us had and that your view reminds us of those bad experiences, of how difficult it was to convince our friends & loved ones that we're not going batshit, and that the harmless person we're freaking out about is not harmless at all. That's not your fault - it's just ... bad memories, k?

P.S.: Your gut-feeling of 'feeling disconcerted' - for a lot of people, the first time they had that feeling marked the point when they should have run like hell. Best advice I ever got from a head-doctor was "Trust your instincts in situations like this".

jfc. No.

No. No. No. No. No. To ALL of this, 'No'.
...

This is a serious issue that thousands deal with everyday but I guess we'll ignore  our collective skin-crawling and treat it as cute and funny cause Taffy's klutzy and she calls Hannelore ma'am or some shit. >.>

Solid copy & and agree on the message in general - but I'm pretty darn close to a 100% sure that oddtail is not trying belittle or downplay a serious problem and/or bad experiences of others. It's frustrating exhausting/horrifying/crazymaking/horrible when 'normal people' with their wonderful normal-people-view of social interaction don't 'get' why you're freaking out about that 'harmless' dude/girl, why your face is flushed, why you're close to tears or even shouting at them and why you can't finish your own goddamn' sentences. I remember having that normal-people-view of social interaction, and I remember how I lost it.

Bearing all that in mind: He is not the 'enemy', IMO.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 18 Nov 2017, 05:05

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

<snip snip>

Yeah, given that my comment was all but ignored but someone "quoting" Dobby's line after it has been liked off the planet - I don't think you were alone!

(Or maybe I'm just not well liked!! Sob!!!!)   :wow:

If it helps, I first figured you meant "a punch upside the face" rather than "an article of clothing. I (thought I) was deliberately misinterpreting it with the Dobby allusion.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: KnightRider007 on 18 Nov 2017, 05:09
... You can't apply population averages to individuals.

If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago...

I thought the first post was rather insightful - don't know whether we'd agree on much in our politics, but its always refreshing to see someone using their headmeats for its intended purpose. Certainly can't be said for all people in discussions around gender/social justice issues.

Second post seems like your forgetting your own (sensible) stance, though. I guess it's pretty rare for someone - regardless of their gender - to be arrested for stalking without someone else pressing charges against them first. The impact of stalking is in the mind of the victim, and most definitions require a pattern of behaviour rather than a single action - without additional information, it's not easy to for a cop passing by to determine at a glance whether someone is being stalked (unlike, e.g. witnessing a burglary, theft or assault).

So no, I don't think a male Tilly would have been arrested by now, all other things being equal.

Yes and no. The original post concerned race as a causal or correlative factor regarding privilege, which I stand by. However, gender (of both the person carrying out the act, and the person being acted upon) is, among other things, a causative factor in how acceptable people find certain behaviours. And this applies in both directions. I freely admit that there are behaviours that are generally socially tolerated in men that are not in women.

I contend that Tilly's behaviour is an example of the reverse. You are of course correct that charges would need to be pressed. I believe it would be far more likely to have happened (and police action more likely to have occurred) had Tilly been male and acting in exactly the same manner - stalking, invasion of privacy, interrogating personal AIs, suggesting outfits (often quoted as a form of controlling abuse), refusal to leave when explicitly asked...

As a hypothetical, I would also have been willing to bet small sums that "he" would have received less sympathy and fewer posts on this forum attempting to justify "his" behaviour.

On a separate note and out of sheer curiosity, what was it about my very short post, one sentence long, that prompted you to make the effort to look into my profile for other posts?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 18 Nov 2017, 05:23
You are new here, and the fact that you are new and it was a short, one line post that read a lot like something Mens Rights trolls have shown up to try and argue about and cause problems over in the past set off alarm bells. The comic features a lot of strong female characters, more then male characters. And it has some pretty strong liberal and feminist leanings. So does the forum membership. This has caused trolls to show up in the past with the intention of cause a scene. While we work to keep the place open and friendly to people of all viewpoints and opinions, we also work to keep it polite and respectful. So when someone makes a comment like "If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago..." that sounds like someone trying to stir controversy over how men are so poorly treated it's sensible to look back and see if this is a pattern in their posting, and should we be paying close attention to see if this is going to become a problem.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Case on 18 Nov 2017, 05:47
As a hypothetical, I would also have been willing to bet small sums that "he" would have received less sympathy and fewer posts on this forum attempting to justify "his" behaviour.

Can't say much about that, since IIRC I was amongst the first to use the word 'creepy' for Tilly's behaviour - and it was exactly my above-mentioned past experience with a cute, diminutive, bespectacled 120 pound woman that has sensitized me to boundary-violations, gaslighting and all the other nice stuff that makes you feel all warm & fuzzy inside. That being said: While I cannot completely comprehend women's experiences, I can extrapolate - and part of that is the realization that while my being no small guy didn't help at all with defending myself against (pretty mild) attempts at boundary violations/emotional abuse (wouldn't dream considering myself a survivor, though - I had competent support that helped my to quickly realize what was happening), I have zero trouble imagining how an abuser could use that physical superiority as a tool. Actually, given my ability to read & hear, I don't have to rely on my imagination - it's not like there aren't countless accounts, very often from women, only a mouse-click away.

I don't think that abuse is lesser, or less serious when it happens to a man, or inflicted by a woman - but I do recognize that when one of 'us' decides to hurt, they have some very dangerous additional tools at their disposal that most female abusers do not have to the same degree. Plus there's the fact that when men go from creepy-stalker-y emotional abusive shit to deeply scary physical shit, they tend to inflict vastly more harm, and do that significantly more often than female ones (though recent studies, especially ones using fresh NCVS-data (or was it CDC?), have shown that the ratio is not quite as one-sided as some have proclaimed it to be for a long time).

Weirdly, my experience helped me realize (later on) how threatening we (men) can be to people who are a good deal smaller and lighter than we are. We don't need to do much to intimidate - raising our voices and waving our arms around might be 'just' our being upset, but to someone almost a head shorter and 60 pounds lighter it's very hard not to think about what would happen if we stopped just waving our arms about.

And we haven't even started looking into gendered social expectations, e.g. in child rearing, or aggressive behaviour of men being implicitly condoned or even encouraged etc.etc.

On a separate note and out of sheer curiosity, what was it about my very short post, one sentence long, that prompted you to make the effort to look into my profile for other posts?

Since you asked, you probably already know - one-liners about "This would be totally different if she were a man!" are not a priori always wrong, but they are favourite staple of a certain set of people not rarely found in places that are ... a wee bit less liberal-leaning than this one, which means that 'we' do get the occasional anti-liberal/anti-feminist troll trying to stir up shit.

/begin_{spurious blurb}
Doesn't mean that heads are ripped off because of a first (or fourth) impression (least in my six years experience on the board) - after all, appearances can and do deceive. And IMO the modding-crew is pretty insistent and consistent about balancing the goals of creating room for constructive difference of opinion on the one hand and a safe and welcoming environment - especially for those of us who need it more than others - on the other, and afaics, that is appreciated by the overwhelming majority of forumites. (Mods: Feel free to contradict/shut me up/tell me to go mind my own goddamn' business)
/end_{spurious blurb}

<- Edit: Cf. Neko's post above.


TL;DR - I was curious, and asking doesn't hurt. In fact, now I'm glad that I did.  :laugh:



P.S.: Are you familiar with Guardian writer Ally Fogg and his blog (https://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/) ? I always felt that his stance was a good example of a 'third position' on male-specific gender-issues that is distinct from (but informed by) feminism on the one hand and most MRA-sites on the other. He denies being either a feminist or MRA, and is very often furiously attack by people on either side, but by myself, I think of him as a "standard 2.8-wave Feminist, except where it comes to issues specific to men".  Don't always agree with him, but I don't doubt his sincerity - and he does appear quite knowledgeable/well-read. If you're looking for a thoughtful, contemporary, not-quite-feminist view on gender-issues, e.g. abuse of men, that isn't also steeped in MRA-style rabid anti-feminism, his is one of the very few sane voices on the net that I've found.

P.P.S.: People curious about Ally's blog should note that the comments-section is not a safe space, for anybody (Though I'd wager that Ally's articles, while maybe challenging to some parts of the 3rd-wave, should not make people feel demeaned or hurt). IIRC, Ally has just one rule for comment-moderation, the ""HetPat Prime Directive (https://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/07/27/the-hetpat-first-directive/) - Thou shalt not generalise about gender activist movements or judge people’s arguments by their association." (My speculation is that this is due to large parts of the Men's Rights movement actually being anti-feminist rather than pro-men & him being tired of people discussing the relative merits of social movements instead of specific issues). The comments-sections can be kind of a social experiment, and you can find yourself next to a brawl between David Futrelle of WeHuntedTheMammoth-fame and AVoiceForMen-founder Paul Elam.

Advantage is that it's not an echo-chamber (at least it wasn't two or so years ago) and discussion is fast-paced, unorthodox and ... not complicated by some of the reservations & stranger-anxiety found in some parts of 3rd-wave feminism regarding some topics; disadvantage is that where there's a lot of friction, there's also a lot of waste heat (and waste-heat producers, I'm afraid) ... and it's definitely not a safe space, so sadly, you won't find that many people who have less than the average "number of spoons to give per day" ...)
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Gyrre on 18 Nov 2017, 06:52
Geez...

This has been one of those weeks where I skip over about 80% to 90% of the comments since the bulk of them are just folks taking turns beating a dead horse while complaining and missing semi-subtle things.

Only a handful of people have recognized that Tilly was quite sincere when stating her dismay at being unable to assist in hiding her own body were she to be killed. Hanner's question pretty much indicates that there wasn't the slightest hint of sarcasm or jest in Tilly's reaction. That's one broken mind right their.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: oddtail on 18 Nov 2017, 07:05
My apologies if I'm trying to explain to you stuff that you already know by heart:
There's people who display that kind of behaviour deliberately, and it is part of the abuse they wreak on others. Yes, they may have been abused themselves in the past, but note that some habitual abusers are very well-versed in turning this into a tool to get their victim to postpone insisting on their boundaries being respected

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. My general point is that Tilly's behaviour is beyond the scope of what a healthy person might do.

I'm not using this as a justification or defense of her action. I'm using this as a (for now, very speculative) way of maybe understanding the motivation here. Understanding the motivation does not mean acceptance.

Plus, I'm trying to illustrate why Tilly is creepy rather than funny to me. Nothing more and nothing less.

And yes, I realise that behaviour similar to Tilly's may very well be deliberate and is part of a toolset used by abusers. Not every abuse is angry and outwardly hostile, I understand that. "This can be seen as abusive" and "this is not what a healthy person does" are not, in my opinion, mutually exclusive. In fact, healthy and well-adjusted people don't tend to abuse others (because why would they?).

Again, that doesn't make abuse somehow not-wrong. I never said that, nor do I think that.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Nov 2017, 10:39
If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago...

Or, male or female, if they'd been in an environment less built around boundary violations than the Questionable Content universe.

Hannelore would have to assert herself to get Tilly arrested, and probably have to take multiple steps like getting a trespass warning letter and/or a restraining order and waiting for Tilly to violate it.

Which leads to a remarkably mean idea.

Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Tilly, I'm going to get arrested on purpose in a demonstration at the military base. I won't do well in jail without someone there to help. I need you to be my personal assistant on the inside.

Get yourself arrested today, and wait in jail until I arrive.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Nov 2017, 11:04
To be honest, that sounds more like something I would do...
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: blt on 18 Nov 2017, 14:12
I wasn't on the forums when he was introduced, but on the topic of audience reception for male vs female, what was the contrast to when Clinton was first seen?  The situations are not dissimilar: sudden appearance, quirky personality, being creepy/stalkerish and upsetting Hannelore.

The main difference I see is author opinion on the character.  Where Jeph's notes keyed on Clinton being a creep (and in general are negative towards him even after his character development since then) they're more positive for Tilly, about how she's cute and helpful or whatever (ech).
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Zog on 18 Nov 2017, 15:09

Maybe Hanners just needs to give Tilly a sock...?

<snip snip>

Yeah, given that my comment was all but ignored but someone "quoting" Dobby's line after it has been liked off the planet - I don't think you were alone!

(Or maybe I'm just not well liked!! Sob!!!!)   :wow:

If it helps, I first figured you meant "a punch upside the face" rather than "an article of clothing. I (thought I) was deliberately misinterpreting it with the Dobby allusion.

My first thought was "what does it mean to give someone a sock" and then "Oh a punch". But then my native language is gibberish ,followed by Spanglish.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: DesiArxxy on 18 Nov 2017, 15:43
If Tilly had been male, they would have been arrested three strips ago...

Or, male or female, if they'd been in an environment less built around boundary violations than the Questionable Content universe.

Hannelore would have to assert herself to get Tilly arrested, and probably have to take multiple steps like getting a trespass warning letter and/or a restraining order and waiting for Tilly to violate it.

Which leads to a remarkably mean idea.

Quote from: imaginary Hannelore
Tilly, I'm going to get arrested on purpose in a demonstration at the military base. I won't do well in jail without someone there to help. I need you to be my personal assistant on the inside.

Get yourself arrested today, and wait in jail until I arrive.

No. You don't have to have a trespass letter, much less a restraining order, to remove a trespasser from private property. Verbal warning from the owner, property manager, or a security officer working on their behalf is fully sufficient to "validate" criminal trespassing, and the police will back that up with an arrest if they have to. In most cases, the police will give the trespasser a verbal warning of their own and will only arrest if the person still refuses to depart the property (or if the person returns to the property after initial removal), but they are not required to do so.



Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: JimC on 19 Nov 2017, 02:49
I dunno Hanners, you're getting too bothered about this (quelle suprise). Every shop can use a free gofer. Send Tilly out for a phone, then out to get munchies for everyone, then she can do Dora's food shopping, next go down to the cash and carry (or whatever the US equivalent is) and stock up on what COD needs, and I'm sure there's other stuff. Just have her doing things for *everyone* and I'm sure there'll be enough to keep her out of your way.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 19 Nov 2017, 05:20
What, and prove that Hanners does need a personal assistant? Remember, she's trying to get rid of Tilly. Being bored and in the way is a far more effective way to show that Hanners does not in fact need her help.
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: jwhouk on 19 Nov 2017, 10:37
So who's up for doing this week's CDT?
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 19 Nov 2017, 10:51
Oh I'll do it. And hope it won't get locked this time  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT 3611 to 3615 (13th to 17th November 2017)
Post by: mercykills on 25 Nov 2017, 21:02
Apologies for double-post & wall of text - Allow me to make an idiot of myself trying to 'mediate' here:

To me, it doesn't read as overeager behaviour. To me, it reads like an automatic response of a kind that's more than a little disconcerting. I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but such drastic shifts of behaviour for a minor reason suggest to me that she's been brainwashed, or abused (and not in a comedic way), or otherwise forced to "help" Hannelore to the exclusion of everything else. This is one step beyond "comical" to me, especially considering who her employer is. Tilly was never funny to me, but now her downright Pavlovian responses are more chilling than anything. YMMV.

My apologies if I'm trying to explain to you stuff that you already know by heart:
There's people who display that kind of behaviour deliberately, and it is part of the abuse they wreak on others. Yes, they may have been abused themselves in the past, but note that some habitual abusers are very well-versed in turning this into a tool to get their victim to postpone insisting on their boundaries being respected

What happened in the past to a stalker/abuser always matters less than their stopping their shit, right now.

(Yes, personal experience, btw - though mine was so brief & comparatively harmless that I hesitate even mentioning it knowing what others here have gone through. It wears you down into a shadow of yourself in a matter of weeks. Even if you're a six-foot, 180 pounds guy - I remember considering changing my ringtone because my old one made my heart race. I remember almost giving up trying to explain to my family why they please neverever tell this person anything about my whereabouts, don't accept any letters, messages or gifts for me and the feelings of shame and confusion and the fear that they'd think I was the one going crazy. I remember my steadfast belief in my sanity becoming frazzled.)

Note that I'm not saying you're wrong for seeing Tilly the way you do - I'm just saying that it looks a bit like you're trying to make sense of abusive/boundary-disrespecting behaviour from within a normal-person view of interpersonal interaction. Not only is that nigh impossible, that view can be insanely frustrating to someone who experiences stalking/abuse, because a lot of abusers are the world's leading experts in making their abuse appear to bystanders superficially like normal interactions. This can be part of the abusers strategy of isolating their victim socially and cutting them off from their emotional support - the freaked-out, emotional person struggling to explain how a superficially harmless and mundane interaction brings them close to tears of rage is always in a worse position explaining themselves than the ostensibly calm, concerned person they're freaking out about. If the victim is rebuked and believes they were over-reacting this can seamlessly lead into heavy-duty gaslighting and other shit that' hard to come back from. I acknowledge not knowing who Tilly is in Jeph's mind - let's just say that if I saw someone behaving like this, I wouldn't consider it a red flag so much as 1982 Red Army parade.


TL; DR - Way I see it, this is less about what you post, or how you view the interaction, but about the past interactions some of us had and that your view reminds us of those bad experiences, of how difficult it was to convince our friends & loved ones that we're not going batshit, and that the harmless person we're freaking out about is not harmless at all. That's not your fault - it's just ... bad memories, k?

P.S.: Your gut-feeling of 'feeling disconcerted' - for a lot of people, the first time they had that feeling marked the point when they should have run like hell. Best advice I ever got from a head-doctor was "Trust your instincts in situations like this".

jfc. No.

No. No. No. No. No. To ALL of this, 'No'.
...

This is a serious issue that thousands deal with everyday but I guess we'll ignore  our collective skin-crawling and treat it as cute and funny cause Taffy's klutzy and she calls Hannelore ma'am or some shit. >.>

Solid copy & and agree on the message in general - but I'm pretty darn close to a 100% sure that oddtail is not trying belittle or downplay a serious problem and/or bad experiences of others. It's frustrating exhausting/horrifying/crazymaking/horrible when 'normal people' with their wonderful normal-people-view of social interaction don't 'get' why you're freaking out about that 'harmless' dude/girl, why your face is flushed, why you're close to tears or even shouting at them and why you can't finish your own goddamn' sentences. I remember having that normal-people-view of social interaction, and I remember how I lost it.

Bearing all that in mind: He is not the 'enemy', IMO.

Sorry for dredging a week(s) old post up but I felt I needed to address this. My tendency to be blunt in my speaking...especially about certain...topics seems to have caused some confusion. Trust me, mate. I know oddtail is not the enemy, I've been lurking on this forum long enough to know that all of you have the best intentions and that this is one of the most inclusive, understanding communities on the net. I apologize for coming across all, "grrrrr...me want jugular. blood blood yum yum", on Odd, or anyone else.