FWIW, in the classic alignment spectrum, you can't have 'amoral good', only 'lawful neutral' and 'lawful evil'. IMO, 'amoral good' is an oxymoron. FWIW, I list Tilly as 'lawful neutral'.
IIRC, the Operative admits that what he does is evil, and that he's a monster.
IIRC, the Operative admits that what he does is evil, and that he's a monster.
Yup, but he does evil to achieve good, to "make all of them Better Worlds" (Admittedly, he's also a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but it's the principle that counts ... :-D)
As I recall, Light Yagami subscribed to a similar philosophy as his Kira persona in Deathnote.IIRC, the Operative admits that what he does is evil, and that he's a monster.
Yup, but he does evil to achieve good, to "make all of them Better Worlds" (Admittedly, he's also a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but it's the principle that counts ... :-D)
That is what is so unsettling about him: He's completely sincere about being a monster and having no place in the Utopia he tries to bring about - yet he's also completely convinced that the end justifies any and every means necessary to achieve it, and seeing as he happens to be on speaking (and shaving) terms with a military-grade psychopath, he considers himself to be the appropriate tool. The thought that the means might taint the goodness of the end never occurs to him.
P.S.: Also, Mal and the gang are quite open about not being 'The Good Guys'TM, either.
Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
And about 'amoral good' being an oxymoron: Tell that to The Operative ...[/youtube]
Tarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tagliatelle, Turtle, Tyranosaurus, Terminator, Thesaurus, Telephone, Trepan...
Tedious, Tepid, Terrible, TilledTarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tagliatelle, Turtle, Tyranosaurus, Terminator, Thesaurus, Telephone, Trepan...
Tinytoon, Tiamat, Telecaster, Teetotaler, Tacobell, Titanomachy...
I voted #6, but I should have voted #7 or #5...or even #1. I don't want Jeph to try harder with Tilly. Once it turned into Tilly standing onWhy do you go through all the pronouns and decide on the wrong one? Do you also decidedly use wrong pronouns in real life as a statement?hertheirone'sher own hands to find something to do, I figured this concept was burned out. Just send Tilly back to wherever people like that wait for jobs.
Tedious, Tepid, Terrible, TilledTarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tagliatelle, Turtle, Tyranosaurus, Terminator, Thesaurus, Telephone, Trepan...
Tinytoon, Tiamat, Telecaster, Teetotaler, Tacobell, Titanomachy...
Thrilly from Thriller. They certainly give some people thrills here. :-D
Looks like the pronoun war is going to continue - already see a few posts using her. *grabs popcorn*
Looks like the pronoun war is going to continue - already see a few posts using her. *grabs popcorn*
IIRC, the Operative admits that what he does is evil, and that he's a monster.
Yup, but he does evil to achieve good, to "make all of them Better Worlds" (Admittedly, he's also a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but it's the principle that counts ... :-D)
Right...but if he recognizes he does evil, he's not amoral. He has a moral sense, and is concerned with the rightness of his actions.
Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...If you give me weed, whites, and wine I'll probably end up in the emergency room.
Tillie
Forgive me. The Matilda I know spells the diminutive form of her Christian name "Tillie," so that's how I think of it. I've known her much longer than I have Ms Birch.Tillie
Close...
I voted #6, but I should have voted #7 or #5...or even #1. I don't want Jeph to try harder with Tilly. Once it turned into Tilly standing onhertheirone'sher own hands to find something to do, I figured this concept was burned out. Just send Tilly back to wherever people like that wait for jobs.
Looks like the pronoun war is going to continue - already see a few posts using her. *grabs popcorn*
I voted #6, but I should have voted #7 or #5...or even #1. I don't want Jeph to try harder with Tilly. Once it turned into Tilly standing onhertheirone'sher own hands to find something to do, I figured this concept was burned out. Just send Tilly back to wherever people like that wait for jobs.
One pronoun at a time is enough for most people. Errors can be understood and forgiven. Cycling through, crossing out and seemingly intentionally landing on the incorrect one is just antagonistic.
Looks like the pronoun war is going to continue - already see a few posts using her. *grabs popcorn*
Excuse me - I must be out of the loop here - I've seen references to 'pronouns' and 'pronoun wars' - what's that about? Is it something to do with Tilly's (to me) obscure statement about 'they/them pronouns'?
I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Excuse me - I must be out of the loop here - I've seen references to 'pronouns' and 'pronoun wars' - what's that about? Is it something to do with Tilly's (to me) obscure statement about 'they/them pronouns'?
There is and has been no pronoun war. There has been some discussion of the use of non-gendered pronouns, most of which has been transferred to a thread that was already discussing the same thing (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33936.0.html), which should remove the obscurity of the remark.
There has been some dissension over the matter of deliberately getting Tilly's name wrong, but that has passed.
Excuse me - I must be out of the loop here - I've seen references to 'pronouns' and 'pronoun wars' - what's that about? Is it something to do with Tilly's (to me) obscure statement about 'they/them pronouns'?
There is and has been no pronoun war. There has been some discussion of the use of non-gendered pronouns, most of which has been transferred to a thread that was already discussing the same thing (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33936.0.html), which should remove the obscurity of the remark.
There has been some dissension over the matter of deliberately getting Tilly's name wrong, but that has passed.
Ah, fair enough. It seems that here in Australia, such non-gendered pronoun usage is rare to the point of undetectable -
that includes at work, talking to kids, shopping, in my business dealings, anywhere... :oops:
I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Tedious, Tepid, Terrible, TilledTarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...
Tagliatelle, Turtle, Tyranosaurus, Terminator, Thesaurus, Telephone, Trepan...
Tinytoon, Tiamat, Telecaster, Teetotaler, Tacobell, Titanomachy...
(click to show/hide)
The kind of sudden cut to evening makes me kind of feel like either there's going to be something that happens and gives Tilly some ground for keeping their job, or that Beatrice* is going to pull something so that Hannelore will see why she needs a personal assistant.
*Someone or someones will probably say this is something Tilly would/will do, but I preemptively disagree.
There's also the heavily implied notion that Shepherd Book is an ex-Operative, and that the Operative is likely going to go down a similar route himself post-conclusion, which would require a pretty drastic perspective shift from amorality compared to the much smaller one of misguided utilitarianism. Not impossible, but seems less likely.(click to show/hide)
But hey, it's all fiction, so whatevs. :D
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Do they explain why they love Tilly?
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Do they explain why they love Tilly?
The kind of sudden cut to evening makes me kind of feel like either there's going to be something that happens and gives Tilly some ground for keeping their job, or that Beatrice* is going to pull something so that Hannelore will see why she needs a personal assistant.
*Someone or someones will probably say this is something Tilly would/will do, but I preemptively disagree.
Maybe Juicy will be too loud and Hannelore will put Tilly’s negotiating skills to the test. If she can takeover her lease then the job is hers.
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Do they explain why they love Tilly?
I did mention that their opinion isn't unanimous. So no, that's nonsense.
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.
Good to know being as Admin allows you to read minds.
Hmmm... has Winslow been working out? He's sitting on the couch with Hanners and is seeing her pretty much eye-to-eye, but in 3543 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3543) he's almost a full head shorter than Hanners when standing. Makes me wonder if the Regular Boy Deluxe features a variable-length spine with automatic self-adjusting spacers. :D
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.
Do they explain why they love Tilly?
I have to say that Hannelore looks completely exhausted after having to deal with Tilly for a day.
Patrons, almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.
Good to know being as Admin allows you to read minds.
On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.As noted before, I've used "they" in its various forms for a neuter third person singular pronoun in writing since about 1988, but I've never had my nose rubbed in just how damn confusing it is until this story arc. I realize now that there's a reason speakers and listeners wanted singulars and plurals to begin with.
No flame wars please. The mod team will take care of the situation.
Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.Then there is May ..... :roll:
Of course robots have excellent posture!
Seriously. There HAS to be someone to tell a humanoid AI, "Stand up straight! Don't slouich like that!"Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.Then there is May ..... :roll:
Of course robots have excellent posture!
Hmmm... has Winslow been working out? He's sitting on the couch with Hanners and is seeing her pretty much eye-to-eye, but in 3543 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3543) he's almost a full head shorter than Hanners when standing. Makes me wonder if the Regular Boy Deluxe features a variable-length spine with automatic self-adjusting spacers. :D
Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.
Of course robots have excellent posture!
Oh dear. Is this going to be another Dorapocalypse? Another Cataclairsm? What do we call it?Oh, it’s hardly reached that level yet. So far this hasn’t even topped the Great Meat Loaf War of February 2016.
Armageddthem?
Not really. Not that I've noticed anyway. I guess they just find Tilly cute and amusing? I don't think they are thinking too hard about it.
Anathema, I know.
Let's put this in a different way then: Patron comments are not automatically a representative subset of the fandom.
Futurama writers proposed 'shkle' and 'shkler' in Beast With a Billion Backs, but that's a bit difficult to say. How about nominative 'seh' and possesive 'mir' (sort of rhyming with 'her')?On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.As noted before, I've used "they" in its various forms for a neuter third person singular pronoun in writing since about 1988, but I've never had my nose rubbed in just how damn confusing it is until this story arc. I realize now that there's a reason speakers and listeners wanted singulars and plurals to begin with.
I haven't settle on a preference for one of the proposed alternatives, but I'll get there.
But it won't be "mim." Too much Disney baggage there.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/thedescendants/images/2/26/Rs_560x415-140514145605-1024.Madam-Mim-The-Sword-And-The-Stone-Disney-Villains.jl.051414.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20160701020210)
I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)
I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."
One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)
Ugh, right? I guess we should just be glad they didn't include the word "it". Although I get the feeling they would have if they thought it wouldn't result in an immediate ban. >.>
[I think/hope I cut this quote down correctly and left the right attribution. -S]
I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."
One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)
I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)
On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.
<snip>I voted #6, but I should have voted #7 or #5...or even #1. I don't want Jeph to try harder with Tilly. Once it turned into Tilly standing onWhy do you go through all the pronouns and decide on the wrong one? Do you also decidedly use wrong pronouns in real life as a statement?hertheirone'sher own hands to find something to do, I figured this concept was burned out. Just send Tilly back to wherever people like that wait for jobs.
I put it to you that it is perfectly possible to produce clear writing without having to resort to referring to someone using gendered pronouns against that person's express wishes. Particularly in your case, as you clearly have a strong grasp of English grammar. I suggest that you do consider this carefully.Yeah, I deleted my explanation, because I knew it would just be interpreted as a right-wing rant.
For a moment I thought Tilly might be related to a Beatrice-competitor, that Beatrice knew this, and got them out of the way of any potentially compromising information via sending them to Hannelore, who is distant from the company and therefore "safe."
Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.
Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to. Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network. Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.
I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)
It's a bit awkward forallmany of us, but if we persevere with it, we'll get used to it. This isn't widely accepted yet, and so the rules are still in flux.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."
Try, for example:
"Tilly has no idea what they're supposed to do in the situation that they've found themself in."
Not sure if people are going to like "themself" as opposed to "themselves," but it's worth trying such things to see if the become comfortable through repeated exposure.
I'm sure there was a time when use of the pronoun "you" in the singular case (in place of "thou") was weird for some people as well. But we don't think twice about it now. I suppose that this will be the same, eventually.
Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.Its interesting, and maybe chilling to note the power of groupthink and isolated groups here. Here are two bodies of people, probably overlapping, and both of whom probably have fairly similar views on a lot of subjects, else they wouldn't enjoy the comic. But on a subject of no real importance at all - the behaviour of a fictional character whose personality is to date only outlined in the thinnest of ways - we have disparate views, apparently vehemently held, which seem to be tending to opposite extremes.
Umm, wait, so Tilly’s father is pressuring her to gather corporate intelligence from Hanners. This suggests that Tilly is, like Hanners, the heir to a corporate mastermind whose ethics may be questionable. At the very least, I predict bonding between Hanners and Tilly on this account. Potentially, Beatrice realizes what’s happening and respects Brontdyn so much for his brash attempt that a future merger happens, potentially with a fun dynamic between Beatrice’s evil plotting and Brontdyn’s attempt to turn her towards truly legitimate business dealings.
I am reading way too much into this, I expect, but it’s fun.
"Tilly has no idea what they're supposed to do in the situation that they've found themself in."
Not sure if people are going to like "themself" as opposed to "themselves," but it's worth trying such things to see if the become comfortable through repeated exposure.
Umm, wait, so Tilly’s father is pressuring her to gather corporate intelligence from Hanners. This suggests that Tilly is, like Hanners, the heir to a corporate mastermind whose ethics may be questionable.
Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to. Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network. Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.
But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
Let's put this in a different way then: Patron comments are not automatically a representative subset of the fandom.
Well, I mean, yes. Quite true.
The whole reason I brought up Patreon in the first place was not to claim that they somehow should be considered to be a true representation of how QC readers were responding. It was simply to point out that these forums are not a representative subset of the fandom. For the same reason that Patreon is not - very simply, they are both self-selecting samples. As I'm sure you're aware, self-selection will always introduce a bias.
so, self selection with a vengeance.Not only that, but people who post actively on any given forum are a self selecting potentially unrepresentative subset of those who read it. How many people would say that the results of the poll above are a reasonable reflection of the general thread of posts about the character? Its something I noticed wth considerable amusement on another forum on an utterly different topic recently. A particularly vocal poster with a small coterie of followers posted a poll about a topic that he was frequently vehement about (and about which most posts were supportive from his coterie) - and the other self selecting subset of people who vote in forum polls massively disagreed with him!
so, self selection with a vengeance.Not only that, but people who post actively on any given forum are a self selecting potentially unrepresentative subset of those who read it. How many people would say that the results of the poll above are a reasonable reflection of the general thread of posts about the character? Its something I noticed wth considerable amusement on another forum on an utterly different topic recently. A particularly vocal poster with a small coterie of followers posted a poll about a topic that he was frequently vehement about (and about which most posts were supportive from his coterie) - and the other self selecting subset of people who vote in forum polls massively disagreed with him!
I dropped a #2 on the Tilly poll. Super annoying and manipulative.
Demonstrating enthusiasm and competence didn't work, so they pulled the "I'm a failure! WAAAAAH!" pathetic/sobstory trick on Hannelore.
Don't like them.
Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
Funny, my (Boomer) teachers used to tell us we were creepily disengaged and unsettlingly dispassionate about politics and society and all that stuff. Which usually elicited the "Unsettling Gen-Xer grin" or the "Whatever ..."
Pendulum swinging back, I s'pose. :laugh:
This extreme polarization on pretty much any topic is nowhere happening as badly as in the US though, undoubtedly a side effect of the fact that there are really only 2 parties (which I have always found a dubious system as a native Dutchman).Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
Funny, my (Boomer) teachers used to tell us we were creepily disengaged and unsettlingly dispassionate about politics and society and all that stuff. Which usually elicited the "Unsettling Gen-Xer grin" or the "Whatever ..."
Pendulum swinging back, I s'pose. :laugh:
However, being passionate and engaged is not the same as being polarizing and dismissive of any and all arguments the opposite party makes.
I'll admit my interest in Tilly has increased significantly after today's comic, there's potential in this arc yet.As has mine - it has taken a quantum leap to the positive.
So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?Hmmm....some kind of flakes.
So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?Shredded Wheat, 3 at a time.
So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?
Got it, I will refrain from non-QC stuff in this thread.
Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.
I will admit that I definitely wasn't expecting anything like this to happen with regards to Tilly. It does seem to open up some interesting possibilities. We don't yet know anything about their father, but presumably he might have been as much (if not more) of an influence on Tilly's personality as was Mrs. Ellicott-Chatham. It is now a somewhat interesting question to ask why they were given this particular role. Assistant to the heir of the company is a responsibility associated with a lot of trust, even if that heir is somewhat wayward, in her mother's eyes...I'd say that, if the heir is even the least bit wayward, it's a fortiori a position of trust. But that's not quite compatible, I think, with Beatrice misremembering their name. It might be that she really does see a PA as just an accessory function, and So didn't mind much who Taffy, or something, was, as long as they have the right skill set.
To be honest, US society is already in a (not so) civil war, and so far nobody is "winning" (maybe extreme conservative Christians and big corporations?) and everybody is losing.
I'm missing more and more my favorite characters. Bubbles, Faye, Sam, Emily, Momo. Hopefully none of them will disappear forever like Sven, Wil or PT410X...
At least, the current arc involves Hannelore and Winslow. I kind of like Winslow since he changed chassis. I really would like to know how he's doing in his new counselor role. Or maybe he wants a "spray" on his new body?
I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)
I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."
Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.
I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once. This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment. And of course have the time to waste.
I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.[1]
I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)I had the same thought while writing my last post. I had to use 'they were' instead of 's/he was' , but it only made me pause for a second. The polite option is to use for a person those pronouns that for which they have stated a preference. Is it something to which a lot of us may be unaccustomed, but I don't find it so terrible. Merely unfamiliar.
Otoh, my native language uses the exact same word for the female third person singular, the second person plural and the informal direct address, and I never noticed until someone pointed it out recently.
Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.
I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once. This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment. And of course have the time to waste.
I realizing this is changing, but I suspect it is still true that "normal" people are too busy working, socializing in meatspace, changing diapers, having sex, or whatever it is that normal people do, to devote much time to arguing about societal issues in the comments on a webcomic.
I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.[1]
I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.[1]
So because using a supposedly plural pronoun feels odd, you're using an indefinite pronoun instead? How does that make any more sense?
Daamn, I feel like Jeph spend 90% of the total drawing time for today making Tilly's legs.
Is it me or he's been improving in terms of anatomy recently? Likely because of Bubbles.
I had the same thought while writing my last post. I had to use 'they were' instead of 's/he was' , but it only made me pause for a second. The polite option is to use for a person those pronouns that for which they have stated a preference. Is it something to which a lot of us may be unaccustomed, but I don't find it so terrible. Merely unfamiliar.
One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)
Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips.I don't really know if you were serious, but I think that a decent number of the text comments below the strip are not to be taken seriously.
Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.
Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?
I just feel like in his presence, I would die of boredom, because he would solve every problem I had before it had a chance to get interesting.Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.
Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?
well spookybot seems okay.
You lack imagination and a twisted sense of humor.I just feel like in his presence, I would die of boredom, because he would solve every problem I had before it had a chance to get interesting.Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.
Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?
well spookybot seems okay.
For a normal person, yes, it might indicate you've discovered their network.Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to. Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network. Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.
Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.Its interesting, and maybe chilling to note the power of groupthink and isolated groups here. Here are two bodies of people, probably overlapping, and both of whom probably have fairly similar views on a lot of subjects, else they wouldn't enjoy the comic. But on a subject of no real importance at all - the behaviour of a fictional character whose personality is to date only outlined in the thinnest of ways - we have disparate views, apparently vehemently held, which seem to be tending to opposite extremes.
In many ways its a mirror of events in the wider world, and of course art should hold up a mirror to the wider world.
But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
Yay, more Tilly. 8-)
...
Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.
I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once. This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment. And of course have the time to waste.
I realizing this is changing, but I suspect it is still true that "normal" people are too busy working, socializing in meatspace, changing diapers, having sex, or whatever it is that normal people do, to devote much time to arguing about societal issues in the comments on a webcomic.
I usually assume other people, like me, are commenting during worktime... :angel:
So, anyway, I've been thinking on 'what is Tilly's role' and I think that today's strip actually answers that question.
Tilly's attempt at 'casual clothing' today is so strange and ill-fitting in so many ways that I'm suspecting that Jeph created her to be an 'Alien Amongst Us', someone whose social instincts and prior normal cultural background is so different from that of the regular cast that we can learn more about them by seeing them through their puzzled eyes.
Of course, there will also be regular cheap jokes about Tilly's inability to 'fit in' or even come close to it.
I will admit that I definitely wasn't expecting anything like this to happen with regards to Tilly. It does seem to open up some interesting possibilities. We don't yet know anything about their father, but presumably he might have been as much (if not more) of an influence on Tilly's personality as was Mrs. Ellicott-Chatham. It is now a somewhat interesting question to ask why they were given this particular role. Assistant to the heir of the company is a responsibility associated with a lot of trust, even if that heir is somewhat wayward, in her mother's eyes...I'd say that, if the heir is even the least bit wayward, it's a fortiori a position of trust. But that's not quite compatible, I think, with Beatrice misremembering their name. It might be that she really does see a PA as just an accessory function, and So didn't mind much who Taffy, or something, was, as long as they have the right skill set.
Tilly continues to reek of desperation, and it's not an attractive smell.
Tilly continues to reek of desperation, and it's not an attractive smell.
I dunno, she looks very confident to me in the last pannel...
Y’allare confusing me: you keep using this word “casual” like that was her goal and she somehow failed.
The Guide said “appropriate to the work environment” and that outfit absolutely fits CoD’s, ah, unique style. Thus, total success.
I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again.
I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again. So the attempts didn't stick.
I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again. So the attempts didn't stick... perhaps the meme is too strong, and before long their family will also be calling them Taffy, and one day they'll look down at their photo ID and see "Taffy" written there instead of "Tilly". And then they have a dream, where they're in a restaurant, and everybody says nothing but "Taffy, Taffy Taffy Taffy."
Professionally, it's really a strange situation. Tilly is now going to help Hannelore at her work? I can't see how this could be working for Dora...
Woooha, more Tilly. :-D
I think their effort to fit in CoD today is a bit over the top, but it's a nice thought. Maybe it's the absurdity of this character that appeals to me. I don't take Tilly too serious, so I can really enjoy them. They are just a comic character after all.
Can't wait for tomorrow to see where Jeph will take this.
TM
So, anyway, I've been thinking on 'what is Tilly's role' and I think that today's strip actually answers that question.Wait a minute, that would mean that Brontdyn Birch is really
Tilly's attempt at 'casual clothing' today is so strange and ill-fitting in so many ways that I'm suspecting that Jeph created her to be an 'Alien Amongst Us', someone whose social instincts and prior normal cultural background is so different from that of the regular cast that we can learn more about them by seeing them through their puzzled eyes.
Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.
This extreme polarization on pretty much any topic is nowhere happening as badly as in the US though, undoubtedly a side effect of the fact that there are really only 2 parties (which I have always found a dubious system as a native Dutchman).
To be honest, US society is already in a (not so) civil war, and so far nobody is "winning" (maybe extreme conservative Christians and big corporations?) and everybody is losing.
Edit: edited as I realized I didn't even believe it myself to be true...
What I have against Tilly is that they are sucking the narrativium out of more worthy characters.
I find it odd how many people are saying their dislike of Tilly is largely due to comics about her not involving other members of the cast, as if that has any impact on the character or the arc.
I find it odd how many people are saying their dislike of Tilly is largely due to comics about her not involving other members of the cast, as if that has any impact on the character or the arc.
Why is it odd? If I went to see a band and they spent half their set playing slow ballads instead of the usual fast, fun tunes I like them for, does that have no impact on my enjoyment of the concert?
That would be just plainI've been waiting for this joke. Thank you.Tillysilly.
I find it odd how many people are saying their dislike of Tilly is largely due to comics about her not involving other members of the cast, as if that has any impact on the character or the arc.
Why is it odd? If I went to see a band and they spent half their set playing slow ballads instead of the usual fast, fun tunes I like them for, does that have no impact on my enjoyment of the concert?
That's not the same thing? It's the same band, just different music.
Anyway, still no comic today. Has Jeph given any indication of why elsewhere?
That's probably a very good reason for not posting. :)Anyway, still no comic today. Has Jeph given any indication of why elsewhere?His last Tweet was that he was waiting for a flight so he may be currently at 5 miles up going somewhere.
Can Tilly pick up her medication? If she's still on lorazepam, that's CIV... can you pick up CIV meds for someone else?
Can Tilly pick up her medication? If she's still on lorazepam, that's CIV... can you pick up CIV meds for someone else?
On the other hand, Hannelore has said explicitly that things explode on her. Seems reasonable to dress as a painter, then.
I find it odd how many people are saying their dislike of Tilly is largely due to comics about her not involving other members of the cast, as if that has any impact on the character or the arc.
Why is it odd? If I went to see a band and they spent half their set playing slow ballads instead of the usual fast, fun tunes I like them for, does that have no impact on my enjoyment of the concert?
That's not the same thing? It's the same band, just different music.
This would be like deciding the opening act is bad just because their existence means you have to wait a little longer to hear the band you really came to see, regardless of whether or not they perform well. Kinda unfair to them.
I've been a fan and avid reader for years, and I've just now created a profile so I could vote "1". They're just plain annoying and should only be used for Hanners to get a win over her mother. What potensial they have is mostly also present in other better, characters, with the exception of the "them"-pronouns factor, which I'd like to se introduced with a more likeable character (maybe even an existing one, I'm always glad to see (well written) character development).
I agree with Absimillard in regards to Tilly - they're superfluous and annoying, and add nothing to the plot. Their introduction as Beatrice's minion seemed (at first) to give us a look into Chatham enterprises and Hanners' relationship with it all, but now it just seems like an excuse to introduce Tilly and make sure they stick.I didn't really think about this until I read your post, but it occurs to me that it might actually be a good thing that the first (confirmed) non-binary character isn't perfect. I felt like Jeph was too cautious when he outed Claire. It felt (to me) that he was concerned that if she wasn't perfect or close to it people would claim that he was doing somehow implying that minorities were not as "good" as non-trans people.(click to show/hide)
It's not as common now, but it used to be fairly common with female or non-white protagonists to make them super awesome just so that nobody would claim that they weren't as good as the white/male characters, but they swung it too far in the other direction. I've seen a few examples with lgbt characters too, but not as many. (In general, not specifically in QC)
So I don't like Tilly, but I'm happy that Jeph isn't being as cautious with them as he was with Claire. It makes Tilly feel more 3d.
I hope I made sense and this isn't all 4am ramblings of a sleep deprived moron. :p
And, let's be honest, a quick read of the red part of the Christian Bible would indicate that there should be quotation marks around the word; extreme conservative "christians".The most popular part seems to be Luke 19:26-27; which says
There's a lot of tenets being ignored there. Some quick examples:
Matthew 7:1-5
Romans 12:18
Galatians 3:28
For those curious, I'd recommend The Complete Jewish Bible translation as it's translated directly from Greek to Modern English (it's meant for both Messianic Jewish and Christian services).
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Yeah. And if it's the same band, that's fair, because you've had previous experience with them that you enjoyed and now they're doing something you don't enjoy, so you like them less.I find it odd how many people are saying their dislike of Tilly is largely due to comics about her not involving other members of the cast, as if that has any impact on the character or the arc.
Why is it odd? If I went to see a band and they spent half their set playing slow ballads instead of the usual fast, fun tunes I like them for, does that have no impact on my enjoyment of the concert?
That's not the same thing? It's the same band, just different music.
It may be the same band but if your enjoyment comes from the genre rather than the performer then, yes, them experimenting with another genre may indeed impact on your enjoyment.
The whole non-binary thing is tiresome in the extreme. Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten. The same way Tilly thought she was buying trousers and a bag in Hanner's favourite colours. It was a deliberate attempt to curry favour and get under her skin. Would you trust someone like that?
She is as manipulative as hell.
Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten.
So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?Hmmm....some kind of flakes.
Although he is enough of a he-man to down an entire bowl of Post Grape Nuts.
To be honest, US society is already in a (not so) civil war, and so far nobody is "winning" (maybe extreme conservative Christians and big corporations?) and everybody is losing.
I used to work for a guy who was also an SF writer. Years ago he said something similar, that the extreme polarization is not benefiting either side of the culture war, so I asked him: "Thinking as an SF writer, who is benefiting from it?"
The whole non-binary thing is tiresome in the extreme. Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten. The same way Tilly thought she was buying trousers and a bag in Hanner's favourite colours. It was a deliberate attempt to curry favour and get under her skin. Would you trust someone like that?
She is as manipulative as hell.
Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten.
I doubt this would have affected Marten's impression of Tilly one way or the other, actually. Marten simply would have accepted it as something to remember about Tilly without a second thought. The pun would have made a significantly larger impact, honestly. And if you think that was a calculated move, then that's a touch cynical IMO.
Anyway, the divisiveness of Tilly continues to amaze.
Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten.
I doubt this would have affected Marten's impression of Tilly one way or the other, actually. Marten simply would have accepted it as something to remember about Tilly without a second thought. The pun would have made a significantly larger impact, honestly. And if you think that was a calculated move, then that's a touch cynical IMO.
Anyway, the divisiveness of Tilly continues to amaze.
The whole non-binary thing is tiresome in the extreme. Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten. The same way Tilly thought she was buying trousers and a bag in Hanner's favourite colours. It was a deliberate attempt to curry favour and get under her skin. Would you trust someone like that?
She is as manipulative as hell.
The whole non-binary thing is tiresome in the extreme. Tilly disclosed it to Marten because she knew about Claire from the dossier and that it would touch a chord with Marten. The same way Tilly thought she was buying trousers and a bag in Hanner's favourite colours. It was a deliberate attempt to curry favour and get under her skin. Would you trust someone like that?
She is as manipulative as hell.
Do they even make Grape-Nuts any more? I haven't seen it in any grocery store for years, perhaps decades. I thought they must have discontinued it.It appears from postconsumerbrands.com (https://www.postconsumerbrands.com/brands/grape-nuts/) that they're still around. I always imagined Saki's Filboid Studge as being something like Grape Nuts.
Question the second - How on earth would anyone know that Claire was Trans? The only ones who know (if I recall correctly) are her mother, Clinton, Marten and Emily. Its not been something Claire has been particularly shouting from the rooftops about.Dude, we're talkin' about Beatrice the Amoral here. She probably has copies of the original birth certificates for all Hannelore's friends. (Come to think of it, the background check for a high level security clearance here in the real world could actually drill down that far.)
Dude, we're talkin' about Beatrice the Amoral here. She probably has copies of the original birth certificates for all Hannelore's friends. (Come to think of it, the background check for a high level security clearance here in the real world could actually drill down that far.)
Question - Why would Tilly have a section dedicated to Hanner's friend's relationships?
Tilly, do something interesting instead of wearing Hannelore to a frazzle. Winslow, you're not helping.
Question - Why would Tilly have a section dedicated to Hanner's friend's relationships?Why not? The dossier was probably supposed to contain everything about Hannelore and the people she interacts with.
Question the second - How on earth would anyone know that Claire was Trans? The only ones who know (if I recall correctly) are her mother, Clinton, Marten and Emily. Its not been something Claire has been particularly shouting from the rooftops about.Pintsize was told in 3185 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3185), and in 3337 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3337) she told Bubbles. However, it seems from the following pages that she had still not told Faye at that point, and I don't find any mention of that later, so presumably Faye still doesn't know.
Do they even make Grape-Nuts any more? I haven't seen it in any grocery store for years, perhaps decades. I thought they must have discontinued it.
Do they even make Grape-Nuts any more? I haven't seen it in any grocery store for years, perhaps decades. I thought they must have discontinued it.It appears from postconsumerbrands.com (https://www.postconsumerbrands.com/brands/grape-nuts/) that they're still around. I always imagined Saki's Filboid Studge as being something like Grape Nuts.
Currently I can only see two ways for this arc to end:
...
2.: Tilly fails (hopefully).
But then what? It has already been pointed out that Tilly seems to be here to stay, but with what function to fulfill within the comic? Will they become just another stray the QC crew adopts, after they get fired? (Because, just transferring them to a new... "victim"... would remove them from the comic, wouldn't it?) Will Tilly, as others have suggested, put their skills to use for Dora or maybe even for Faye and Bubbles (which in any case would require a radical change of attitude on Tillys part... if they want to live...)? I don't know, and to be honest, I don't find any of those scenarios appealing.
Usually on the top shelf, with all the other "It's good for you / kids won't like it" cereals.Do they even make Grape-Nuts any more? I haven't seen it in any grocery store for years, perhaps decades. I thought they must have discontinued it.It appears from postconsumerbrands.com (https://www.postconsumerbrands.com/brands/grape-nuts/) that they're still around. I always imagined Saki's Filboid Studge as being something like Grape Nuts.
Oh, interesting! I guess I haven't looked in the right stores. Granted, I don't buy cereal much anyway, so it's possible that it's been in plain sight without my noticing.
I have this underlying déjà vu feeling and was wracking my brain trying to figure out why and then it hit me - George Lucas.I take it you have only seen the movies and not the animated TV series The Clone Wars where Jar Jar is developed in a much better way. Still mostly comic relief but also with a much better understanding of his character and motivations.
He was enamored with Jar Jar. Unfortunately he had nobody to rein him in like in the first trilogy.
Like Jar Jar my guess is that there is a perfectly valid and interesting history and story arc for the character but the depiction up till now has been far short of what we have come to expect from him.
Beatrice probably eats pineapple and ham pizza, too. Monster.
When I think "manipulative" I'm thinking of the suicide threat.
When I think "manipulative" I'm thinking of the suicide threat.
?
When? Who?
There is a whole library of material written about what was done, could have been done, and what may have been happening behind the scenes but George and his precious ego will never come clean - my bet is that he destroyed all evidence of the original story-line and made everyone in the know sign nondisclosure's.
There is potential but they are really getting irritating on lots of levels and I really am having a hard time forgiving how miserable they are making Hannelore.
Re: Tilly telling Marten they're nonbinary to gain favor with him: I didn't see anywhere in the theory that said they were faking it, just that's why they hadn't brought it up with Hanners or Winslow or Dora but it was one of the first things out of their mouth with Marten. I still don't buy the theory - mostly because why should Tilly care that much about gaining favor with Marten?
I'm wondering to what degree the 27 7 votes just reflect a faith in Jeph knowing where he wants go.
Winslow: "I'm jealous. Sharpie just wipes right of me".
So the question of the "spray" I mentioned previously seems to be settled...