A perfect example of 'Don't make that face or it may get stuck that way.'
Tilly gets eaten by a dinosaur.
But, presumably, Tilly is a legal adult and should be perfectly capable of advocating for themselves, thus mitigating the need for Hannelore to "bring them back" like some sort of stray puppy that needs protecting from the evil she-bitch pitbull (aka Empress Beatrice). Hannelore has Winslow. She doesn't need another subservient being hanging around her, especially one who is not above using emotional manipulation to achieve their goals.
Speaking of emotional manipulation... At what point should I just cut the cord on a "friend" who has, several time in the past couple years, whenever her life goes to shit, told me that if i ever stopped being her friend, she'd probably just kill herself?
But, presumably, Tilly is a legal adult and should be perfectly capable of advocating for themselves, thus mitigating the need for Hannelore to "bring them back" like some sort of stray puppy that needs protecting from the evil she-bitch pitbull (aka Empress Beatrice). Hannelore has Winslow. She doesn't need another subservient being hanging around her, especially one who is not above using emotional manipulation to achieve their goals.
Speaking of emotional manipulation... At what point should I just cut the cord on a "friend" who has, several time in the past couple years, whenever her life goes to shit, told me that if i ever stopped being her friend, she'd probably just kill herself?
Legally yes, but morally? Honestly Tilly strikes me as a house elf in some ways; I doubt they'd be able to function in regular society. And of course the thing about being a good person is that sometimes you do things even if they're not strictly needed. Hanners could definitely have called the cops on Tilly and had them dragged off, problem solved, but then she wouldn't be Hanners, would she?
EDIT: Also, have you discussed it with her? Has she been open to change? I'd honestly say that there's no better time than the present if it is clear that she'll never change her ways.
@BenRG, I really want to know how your brain goes from Point A to Point Q-832-Alpha...Agreed. The alternatives aren't really great: Hanners could go alone, and exclude Tilly from negotiations/discussions they will be the central topic of, or Tilly goes alone and Hannelore can't explain to her mother in person why her behaviour is problematic.
The most likely explanation as to why Hanners has taken Tilly with her is quite simply, it involves Tilly too. They are a negotiating tool between their father and Beatrice. You can't treat people like that and that is something Tilly needs to hear. It might hurt them, but they'll need to know as well.
I picture it going down like this:
Hannelore: "Mother, this has got to stop." * ignites lightsaber *
Beatrice: "Strike me down, and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete."
Hannelore: "Stuff it, mom. My journey to the Dark Side was complete a long time ago." * slice dice fillet *
Beatrice: "That's my girl!" * dies *
:evil:
This has happened to Hannelore before, specifically her 'SQUEE!' expression when Marigold agreed to date Dale. Repetition makes me wonder if it is a real physiological problem on Hannelore's part! :wink:
Beatrice: "That's my girl!" * dies *As Hannelore stands over the now defunct Beatrice, Beatrice walks in through another door, well out of lightsber range.
This has happened to Hannelore before, specifically her 'SQUEE!' expression when Marigold agreed to date Dale. Repetition makes me wonder if it is a real physiological problem on Hannelore's part! :wink:
Had to look that one up; yessss....
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2545 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2545)
You've seen eager new trainees, but like Tilly??
Btw Tilly asked once to be referred to with they/them pronouns. It turns out that if we honor that on the forum, it's a meaningful gesture of respect and welcome to real life non binary people. And that is very very important to us.
Maybe this will push Hanners to do more with the Ellicott-Chatham Empire!! She did mention about how she still doesn't know how or when she'll be using her responsibility of taking the reigns and it's possible, just a teensy bit, that she might not return to Northampton when she sees her mother. Honestly, I'm quite excited about Beatrice being back in the plot.(click to show/hide)
This has happened to Hannelore before, specifically her 'SQUEE!' expression when Marigold agreed to date Dale. Repetition makes me wonder if it is a real physiological problem on Hannelore's part! :wink:
Had to look that one up; yessss....
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2545 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2545)
So it seems it takes 4 panels for Hanners' face to get stuck...
likely not just me but does hanners look a lot like her mom in todays (mondays) comic?Absolutely. That's Jeph's point. Whether it's happened as she planned or not, Beatrice has succeeded in manifesting herself in Hannelore.
Could this be leading to the point where Hanners realises, that she, together with Station, own a controlling interest in ECI?
And it seems Tilly's eyes are also stuck. Must be hard walking like that and not run into things.I wish my dog would pay that kind of attention when I tell her to heel (collision avoidance is the human's responsibility).
Moreover, I had assumed this was primarily John Ellicott's company. Beatrice probably has significant shares in it but I would have thought that her own business dealings are entirely separate.
Hannelore has come a long way if she can fly on a commercial jet without freaking out over recycled air and potential security pat downs.There appear to be no other passengers in the cabin but Hanners and Tilly. Did Hanners book all the seats in the plane, or is it a corporate-jet kind of bird (though the seats look a bit low-rent for that)?
Angry Hannelore is scary!
On other things: Beatrice v. Hannelore will be close. Hannelore has several metric tons of righteous anger, but Beatrice has had decades of pracrice in the Dark Arts.Hanners has device that she can bombard Beatrice with pizzas from orbit!
I almost feel an itty bit sorry for Beatrice."Good God, what have i spawned?" She'll be trying to decide between hiring Veronica to spank her or becoming a nun.
Almost.
Hurricane Hanners has touch ground, and there will be a reckoning.
The nerd looks like a cross between Dr. Ellicot-Chatham and Dr. Case...
...you don't think...
Maybe this will push Hanners to do more with the Ellicott-Chatham Empire!! She did mention about how she still doesn't know how or when she'll be using her responsibility of taking the reigns and it's possible, just a teensy bit, that she might not return to Northampton when she sees her mother. Honestly, I'm quite excited about Beatrice being back in the plot.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
Tilly gets eaten by a dinosaur.
ZOMG The red pumps!
Dune reference! 8-)
Will Hanners put her Gom Jabar to Beatrices neck?
Tilly gets eaten by a dinosaur.
I can get behind that. I can get behind that in a major way.
Bea, "I have NEVER been prouder of you!"
Hanners, "What."
I saw the room Beatrice was sitting in and I thought "Oh no, are we getting closer to that hypothetical situation where Hannelore releases the killer virus on the world?" (The comic of which I can't seem to find right now?)2443 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443). It's a part of the arc where Angus starts to talk to Faye about her five year plan, because he's off to an audition.
Hanners does look a lot like Spookybot with her hair like that plus the suit.
I think her mom is going to be astonished. Maybe even flabbergasted.
Bonus: It looks as if Tilly is staying outside for this one. Yay.
My headcanon is that the two identical men-in-suits are called Frank and Brank and they have never met before this day (and neither do they notice anything unusual now that they have).I was wondering about that pair as well. They're obviously a matched set. Twins? Clones? HiFi AI bots?
For an instant, I thought I've seen Ardent.Nope, just some drudge who's been into the Spice.
It's not him, though. No tail, and the nose is not right.
I do wonder if this whole Tilly situation wasn't planned by Hannelore's mother to achieve precisely this result.
I do wonder if this whole Tilly situation wasn't planned by Hannelore's mother to achieve precisely this result.
I think you're giving Beatrice too much credit.
Hannelore in full Righteous Anger Mode is really cool to see, but... Beatrice is no pushover. I'm sure she handled much worse situations than Hannelore throwing a fit, being the leader of an international corporation and such. Sure, in her own way she loves her daughter, but this time it's about the company..! I hope she faces the "temper tantrum of an unruly child" like the cold and calculating corporate exec she is
.....Why the hell is Nightcrawler on Beatrice's staff?
Hannelore in full Righteous Anger Mode is really cool to see, but... Beatrice is no pushover. I'm sure she handled much worse situations than Hannelore throwing a fit, being the leader of an international corporation and such. Sure, in her own way she loves her daughter, but this time it's about the company..! I hope she faces the "temper tantrum of an unruly child" like the cold and calculating corporate exec she is
The venn diagram for business leadership and intelligence has as little overlap as scruples or a conscience compared to lets say, cunning or Machiavellian tendencies.
It will be very interesting to see how Hannelore will react when Beatrice idly waves aside her demands (because she will). I don't think Hannelore will succumb to the temptation to do violence but I think it will be a near run thing.
Well, that was anticlimactic... :-\
Well, that was anticlimactic... :-\
That was probably cathartic, but kind of disappointing, from the point of view of narration...
New Comic Up
Yeah, I called it.
O, and I'm one hundred percent sure Hannelore shoving Beatrice will be accepted by everyone and won't prove controversial in the least. :roll:
So, what's next? Next, Hannelore has to sit down with Tilly and they have to decide what Tilly does next. My concern is that I don't think that Tilly's dad is any more forgiving of the perception of failure than Beatrice is. Things may be hard for them, at least for a while.I'm not so sure about that; their phone call seemed a lot more good natured than anything we've seen between Hanners and Beatrice.
O, and I'm one hundred percent sure Hannelore shoving Beatrice will be accepted by everyone and won't prove controversial in the least. :roll:
This could go many ways...
As has been mentioned above the, "Eeexcellent! Your hatred has made you strong!" moment.
Or a "Just you wait a minute, Missy!" moment.
Or an even more anti-climactic, 'Back-at-Hanners' place' - "So, Tilly, this is how things are gonna go..." moment
I'm praying this is the end of the Tilly arc...
But, as we all know, prayers are pointless.
O, and I'm one hundred percent sure Hannelore shoving Beatrice will be accepted by everyone and won't prove controversial in the least. :roll:
Yeah, no. Strangely enough I posted on Jeph's Patreon site that I felt it was not only an unnecessary shove, but also a bit out of character for Hanners, and immediately people disagreed with me, so over there it seems to be almost universally accepted, which I find very odd.
How was a shove necessary here? I get that she's angry and wants to sever ties with her mom, but all that could've easily been handled verbally.
As much as I love Hanners as a character, she was out of line with her physical attack (yes, it was 'only' a shove, but still).
We still have two more comics this week to find out…And since Jeph tends to do fillers in the week between Christmas and New Year, I expect this to be fully resolved by then. One of those strips will be Hanners talking to Tilly. One may be Beatrice trying to understand Hanners.
How was a shove necessary here? I get that she's angry and wants to sever ties with her mom, but all that could've easily been handled verbally.It's OOC (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OOCIsSeriousBusiness) yes, but that's basically what was necessary for Bea to actually shut up. A simple verbal notice would have left her with an opening to come back that the shove prevents.
This could go many ways...
As has been mentioned above the, "Eeexcellent! Your hatred has made you strong!" moment.
Or a "Just you wait a minute, Missy!" moment.
Or an even more anti-climactic, 'Back-at-Hanners' place' - "So, Tilly, this is how things are gonna go..." moment
I'm praying this is the end of the Tilly arc...
But, as we all know, prayers are pointless.
Other options:
-Beatrice going after her and realizing how she's behaved, leading to a 'moment' between the 2.
-Beatrice commenting on how proud she is of Hanners right now, leading to Hanners' shocking realization that she has more in common with her mom than she would like
-Beatrice threatening Hanners about suing her for the shove unless she cooperates in this negotiation ploy
etc., etc.
The most interesting to me would be if after a while it comes out that Tilly was in on it all.
Yeah, no. Strangely enough I posted on Jeph's Patreon site that I felt it was not only an unnecessary shove, but also a bit out of character for Hanners, and immediately people disagreed with me, so over there it seems to be almost universally accepted, which I find very odd.
Anticlimactic? Disappointing? Did we see the same comic?
Because I don't watch sports, but I just roared like my favourite sports team sportsed real hard.
Well, that was anticlimactic... :-\
What makes you think thats the end of the story. Its still only Wednesday. We've still got the denouement to see.
Well, that was anticlimactic... :-\
What makes you think thats the end of the story. Its still only Wednesday. We've still got the denouement to see.
Hmmm... Hanners walking out, maybe?
How was a shove necessary here?
Finally, two (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2146) for two (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3638) on parental physical contact. It took five years, but hanners is getting things done.
I'm in the camp of this strip being a Big Deal. Cutting out a toxic person can be so hard. Even if the practice is telling them to leave you alone, that is the culmination of years of bad treatment in Hannelore's case. After years of backing down, it's a huge thing to finally say, "I won't take this."
Hanners cutting off ties with her mother was plenty dramatic, IMO.
I think the issue here is that some folks have been building Beatrice up as some kind of Bond villian, with spies everywhere, and intricate plans to enslave her daughter and take over the planet.
When actually, she's just a driven businesswoman who's neglected her daughter (to the point now of exploiting her for personal gain). This is a wake-up call for her.
That was too easy; Beatrice can't be down yet, even though she seems to be reeling.I absolutely understand why you say this, but does she have any moves to make? Cordial relations once cut off by one party aren't exactly something which may be forced by the other party.
I'm in the camp of this strip being a Big Deal. Cutting out a toxic person can be so hard. Even if the practice is telling them to leave you alone, that is the culmination of years of bad treatment in Hannelore's case. After years of backing down, it's a huge thing to finally say, "I won't take this."
It IS of course a big deal. But in terms of narration, it's really short. I, for one, can't see what Beatrice could possibly reply to her daughter, so the argument seems to be over. I awaited something more... developed and lengthy.
O, and I'm one hundred percent sure Hannelore shoving Beatrice will be accepted by everyone and won't prove controversial in the least. :roll:
Yeah, no. Strangely enough I posted on Jeph's Patreon site that I felt it was not only an unnecessary shove, but also a bit out of character for Hanners, and immediately people disagreed with me, so over there it seems to be almost universally accepted, which I find very odd.
How was a shove necessary here? I get that she's angry and wants to sever ties with her mom, but all that could've easily been handled verbally.
As much as I love Hanners as a character, she was out of line with her physical attack (yes, it was 'only' a shove, but still).
Also, all the talk about assault and battery, etc. Are you forgetting where they are? They are on a space station, in international space. there are only legal issues if the laws of the station say there are.
Kindaaaa wasn't going to say anything at first but then decided fuckit, I'm doin it?
RMc: Not serious mental illness? "cutesy OCD she supposedly has"? http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=959 Are we reading the same fucken strip? http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2134 Or are you the kinda person that finds a immobilizing-strap gurney "cutesy"? As someone who has mental illnesses themself: Fuck off!
Maybe this heinous incident will be adapted into an intensely overacted Australian TV drama: "The Shove".
Does it bother anyone else that Hannelore has been all "I'm not your boss, I don't need a PA" since Tilly arrived, but AFTER the two days has ended and she's shown her the door, she has no problem with "oh hey PA, book us some plane tickets"?Not at all. This arc is about Hanners transforming, in many ways into her mother, something she does not want to do (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443). And Tova is very correct, Hannelore is seeing Tilly as a weaker victim of the same tormentor.
Bea, "I have NEVER been prouder of you!"So much for that.
Hanners, "What."
The shark tank and wood chipper sort of did the building for us. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=994)
The shark tank and wood chipper sort of did the building for us. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=994)
The shark tank that had whale sharks in it because she doesn't even know the difference between sharks that are dangerous to humans and sharks that aren't?
Not really building anything more for the Beatrice-is-a-competent-villain case there.
Beatrice knows both how difficult Hannelore's childhood was, and how far she has come since maturing and leaving the station. Here's a hypothesis for you: Tilly is not the naive "personal assistant" they put on to be. Instead, Dr. Tilly Birch is a well-trained psychologist involved in an elaborate effort by Beatrice to establish exactly how "well" Hannelore has become. Beatrice, having seen the progress that Hannelore has made since becoming earthbound has requested professional assistance in determining the extent of that progress, leading to an "experiment"; Dr. Birch would pose as an over-eager personal assistant foisted on Hannelore by Beatrice, and (in concert with Beatrice) would "push" Hannelore. How Hannelore reacts to this push would permit Dr. Birch and Beatrice to evaluate Hannelore's stability and resiliancy.
Note though that Beatrice's immediate response to finding out that whale sharks weren't dangerous to humans was to suggest the Fargo way doing things and feed someone into a wood chipper. Beatrice might not be the competent villain but she's definitely got the psychotic part down pat.
Every panel with Tilly in it is a panel not being given to literally any other character.
I think Tilly just aced the world's hardest job interview.
...also holy fuck Hanners is hugging 'em?!
Does it bother anyone else that Hannelore has been all "I'm not your boss, I don't need a PA" since Tilly arrived, but AFTER the two days has ended and she's shown her the door, she has no problem with "oh hey PA, book us some plane tickets"?Not at all. This arc is about Hanners transforming, in many ways into her mother, something she does not want to do (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2443). And Tova is very correct, Hannelore is seeing Tilly as a weaker victim of the same tormentor.
Does it bother anyone else that Hannelore has been all "I'm not your boss, I don't need a PA" since Tilly arrived, but AFTER the two days has ended and she's shown her the door, she has no problem with "oh hey PA, book us some plane tickets"?
I've been where Hanners is. (Though my parents aren't a space scientist and a corporate overlord. Just a teacher and a car parts salesman) It's incredibly painful to tell your family that you don't want them in your life
What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?
What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?
Make threats about making her friends 'pay' for her daughter's defiance and make it clear that their suffering would be Hannelore's fault.
What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?
Seriously?
Seriously?
Yes. There's precedent; the last time Beatrice was a significant character, she idly threatened to ruin Marten's credit rating if he didn't take the money she staked when she bet Hannelore couldn't touch a toilet seat. This is a petty woman capable of petty acts of revenge if she thinks she's being disrespected.
I'm sure she's capable of it. But what do you think she would achieve by doing so?
she's doing nothing illegal other than ordering companies she owns to be extra zealous about calling in debts, extra aware about people's credit histories and the like.
So, the only thing Hannelore can do to stop it is re-open contact with her mother and do whatever she tells her to in order to persuade her to call off her minions.
But the issue is that Hanners has cut off ties. That is, their relationship has been destroyed.
This action might persuade Hanners to resume communication, but it would permanently destroy their relationship. Thus, it would be an entirely self-defeating move on Beatrice's part.
That is what I am trying to say.
So, I guess you're seeing her expression in the last panel of yesterday's comic as her being upset that Hanners no longer obeys her.
What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?
Hm… depends…
She could have tried to justify her action ("If the deal with Taffys father vanishes, almost 5.000 people will lose their jobs!"), or have a sudden moment of realisation and regret ("OMG, Hannelore! I didn’t know! I’m so sorry!"). A worst case scenario would have also been possible ("How dare you threaten me?!? Security! Throw those two trespassers out! If they try to get back in *ever*, taser them!"), or even something completely crazy (*sigh* "Okay, this one was a failure. Tell the lab to thaw out the next one, and give her the new programming we talked about...")
From my point of view, any reaction from Beatrice would have been better that no reaction at all. But there's still one comic left for this week…
I've been where Hanners is. (Though my parents aren't a space scientist and a corporate overlord. Just a teacher and a car parts salesman) It's incredibly painful to tell your family that you don't want them in your life
Would Beatrice actually follow through with ruining a plebeian? All of Hannelore's Northampton friends are otherwise below her notice. She had to be damn near on-her-lips drunk (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=927) with her mountain of inhibitions dissolved in ethanol to even joke about doing it. Beatrice is silent because she's having flashbacks to the emotional abuse she suffered at the hands of her own mother. Child abusers were almost always themselves abused and it takes confrontation and conscious effort to break the cycle. Perhaps this will segue to Bea's backstory.
Okay, so I have a genuine question for those who expected more from Beatrice.
What did you expect Beatrice to say in this situation?
:psyduck: I can't see Hanners crying on anyone's shoulder. Ever! :psyduck:People overwhelmed with emotion don't always pay any attention at all to logic.
[snippage]
Logically I could see Hanners drop to her knees between panels 3 and 4 as dramatic effect to show just how devastated and vulnerable she is.
Having Tilly standing behind her unable to effectively console her [because Tilly knows no touchie by now, right? right?] and that would have been true to both characters as we know them up till now.
*("It's just zir jacket"? I like that better - doesn't leave me thinking "Are Tilly and Hannelore both supposed to fit into that thing, or do they take turns wearing it?")I'll give you the same advice that either of my amab daughters gives to anyone who asks: "If you want to know what pronoun to use, ask me." Tilly prefers they/them. They are entitled to that choice, and it's impolite to override it.
But for those thinking this approach was right, ask yourself, how is this any different from shoving your girlfriend or slapping her to make her shut up so you can yell at her? Just because it is between two family members doesn't make it any less worse.
The shove gives an added bit of emphasis to everything Hanners said. Where Hanners hugged her father as a sign of gratitude and affection during the Station arc, here Hanners is using physical contact (something she has massive hang-ups about) to show just how much disdain she has for her mother at that moment.We still have two more comics this week to find out…And since Jeph tends to do fillers in the week between Christmas and New Year, I expect this to be fully resolved by then. One of those strips will be Hanners talking to Tilly. One may be Beatrice trying to understand Hanners.How was a shove necessary here? I get that she's angry and wants to sever ties with her mom, but all that could've easily been handled verbally.It's OOC (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OOCIsSeriousBusiness) yes, but that's basically what was necessary for Bea to actually shut up. A simple verbal notice would have left her with an opening to come back that the shove prevents.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Damnit, Ben, you beat me to the point
So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?But we (all English speakers, not just non-binary folk or the denzians of this forum) are struggling with third (spoken of) person pronouns and thee/thou/thine is second (spoken to) person. Using "them" just shifts the awkward bit from number to person. (I can still hear Sister Mary Knucklewhacker making us chant, "Person, Number, Gender, Case.)
Tilly is clearly his flavour of the month, but the whole build up about the *cutie* has just drastically failed, with a major majority disagreeing on his opinion,A majority of the noisy posters here, which must be a tiny minority of his entire readership. I've also seen comments which suggest that the character has not been nearly so negatively received elsewhere. Probably a mistake to put too much emphasis on our ramblings. Remember the poll on Tilly didn't come down nearly as negative as the postings seemed to.
I've also seen comments which suggest that the character has not been nearly so negatively received elsewhere.
Tilly is clearly his flavour of the month, but the whole build up about the *cutie* has just drastically failed, with a major majority disagreeing on his opinion,... Remember the poll on Tilly didn't come down nearly as negative as the postings seemed to.
The thing that I got from this strip is that Tilly is obviously a lot younger than I thought. 'Straight out of school' means probably 21 or 22 to me; younger than any of the human main cast (except for Sam) who are mostly in their late 20s and even approaching the 'big 3-0'. I honestly thought that she was closer to the others' age and this was a 'big break' to get out of the lower echelons of ECI. I'm wondering if Jeph is planning to play on that with Tilly being the 'baby' of the cast whom the others feel obliged to act as protectors/mentors.FWIW, Hannelore's close to her in age - she was 22 as of strip 1069 (March 2004 per AprilArcus's timeline), I'd guess it's circa 2006 in-strip now, making her ~24 now.
SO if you hated Tilly because they hurt Hanners, and now not only has Tilly expressed remorse for doing so, but Hanners has also clearly forgiven them, my question to you is - can you do the same?
I just don't like them as a character. It's not a forgiveness thing, because they're not a real person, they're a literary device, and I didn't think they were effective as one.
It's not hatred. It's not big or pronounced. She's just boring and mildly irritating. And it's annoying because this comic wasn't otherwise lacking for a cast of more interesting characters to use.
Instead we've had Hannelore be the backup spoon drawer for a new character that hasn't earned it, because they need to steal spotlight to jumpstart their position in the story.
SO if you hated Tilly because they hurt Hanners, and now not only has Tilly expressed remorse for doing so, but Hanners has also clearly forgiven them, my question to you is - can you do the same?
Jeph...sounds like you need a year or two away from the drawing board.
So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?But we (all English speakers, not just non-binary folk or the denzians of this forum) are struggling with third (spoken of) person pronouns and thee/thou/thine is second (spoken to) person. Using "them" just shifts the awkward bit from number to person. (I can still hear Sister Mary Knucklewhacker making us chant, "Person, Number, Gender, Case.)
No one faction gets to declare changes to languages, especially English - the larger community will have to arrive at consensus.
Snot on my shirt. That's what friends are for.
Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.
Agree. It's Jeph's universe - he gets to people it with whoever or whatever he wants (here we have magic bandicoots, yelling birds, and sentient turkeys). If you don't like it, read something else or draw your own strip. There's lots of web comics that seem to do okay with shitty art as long as the writing is clever or good, so "I can't draw" is no bar.Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.
Hate or dislike or be bored with Tilly and this arc all you want, but fuck that. Diverse genders should exist independently of whether they further the storyline.
Agree. It's Jeph's universe - he gets to people it with whoever or whatever he wants (here we have magic bandicoots, yelling birds, and sentient turkeys). If you don't like it, read something else or draw your own strip. There's lots of web comics that seem to do okay with shitty art as long as the writing is clever or good, so "I can't draw" is no bar.Giving them the armour of being non-binary, a trait that has not moved any plot on by one iota, feels manipulative.
Hate or dislike or be bored with Tilly and this arc all you want, but fuck that. Diverse genders should exist independently of whether they further the storyline.
I mean I didn't like the "check your privileges" arch, but respected Jeph's right to tell the story he wants with his characters 8I
So it's not as simple as "Use thou when you would use I/she/he, thee when you would use me/her/him, thy when you would use my/her/his, and thine for mine/hers/his"?But we (all English speakers, not just non-binary folk or the denzians of this forum) are struggling with third (spoken of) person pronouns and thee/thou/thine is second (spoken to) person. Using "them" just shifts the awkward bit from number to person. (I can still hear Sister Mary Knucklewhacker making us chant, "Person, Number, Gender, Case.)
No one faction gets to declare changes to languages, especially English - the larger community will have to arrive at consensus.
Question: As Tilly refers to herself with neutral pronouns, what is the proper word for them in a relationship? Neither boyfriend nor girlfriend seems right, and I'm stuck thinking of a word that would be suitable in this situation.
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Uhm I'm a long-reader of the comic but new to forum and I'm amazed what's going on here. It's second time I'm here. Previously there was a discussion whether Sam will be raped or not, now some gender-related stuff which I wouldn't even think of. Tally's clearly a girl and grammar-nazi or whatever. IMHO plot's nice but tiring a bit and I feel that it's good it comes to an end finally.Tilly isn't a girl; that's kind of why the whole conversation is occurring. They're non-binary and use they/them pronouns.
Uhm I'm a long-reader of the comic but new to forum and I'm amazed what's going on here. It's second time I'm here. Previously there was a discussion whether Sam will be raped or not, now some gender-related stuff which I wouldn't even think of. Tally's clearly a girl and grammar-nazi or whatever. IMHO plot's nice but tiring a bit and I feel that it's good it comes to an end finally.
Question: As Tilly refers to herself with neutral pronouns, what is the proper word for them in a relationship? Neither boyfriend nor girlfriend seems right, and I'm stuck thinking of a word that would be suitable in this situation.
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significant other
But by the same token, the community doesn't get to decide how to define how a person gets referred to.The person spoken of, the third person, is assumed to be absent. Referring to a person present in the third person is usually rude in the extreme and meant as an insult. Only extremely weird or pompous asses (true, lots of overlap there) refer to themselves in the third person unless it's done with humorous intent. The Community of Speakers of the language in question does indeed settle on how the person spoken of is referred to.
significant otherExcept that in the Social work trade that has an entirely different meaning.
Tally's clearly a girl and grammar-nazi or whatever.
significant otherExcept that in the Social work trade that has an entirely different meaning.
You mean Toffee?"The slightly less abrasive than before One," or, alternatively, "The slightly more sympathetic than before One."
Aaaand there it all came crashing down, the enormity of what she just did, the fact that she hoped so long for something that wasn't there... Poor Hannelore.I'm guessing that's to show just how emotionally distraught Hannelore is.
Also, I wonder what it says that she actually is OK with touching Tilly. I wonder if maybe they got better along than it initially seemed after the boundaries were put up.
Tally's clearly a girl and grammar-nazi or whatever.
Respecting people’s wishes (how to be addressed or referred to in this case) is nothing to do with being a grammar-nazi. Nor is it affected by Tilley’s “obviously” being a girl.
...
Meet me in the thread Wulu pointed to if you'd like to continue.
Most curious....
Meet me in the thread Wulu pointed to if you'd like to continue.
FYI (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33936.msg1396266.html#msg1396266)
I feel like this may upset you, but, uh, when using the singular "they," you still conjugate as you normally would with "they." "They were," "they like to read," "they laugh often."You mean Toffee?"The slightly less abrasive than before One," or, alternatively, "The slightly more sympathetic than before One."
Seriously, for as clueless as they was [that's as euphonic as fingernails on a slate but I'll admit it does flag "they" as singular], acquiring even one clue is a major change for Tilly, thus making them [nowhere near as grating as "they was"] a dynamic character.
Please, cite an authoritative source for this ruling. Have we instituted L'académie anglaise? If so, do they get spiffy uniforms with gold collars and swords, too, like the French? Seriously, even if the NY Times Style Book says to write it that way, it's still awkward as hell when spoken.I feel like this may upset you, but, uh, when using the singular "they," you still conjugate as you normally would with "they." "They were," "they like to read," "they laugh often."You mean Toffee?"The slightly less abrasive than before One," or, alternatively, "The slightly more sympathetic than before One."
Seriously, for as clueless as they was [that's as euphonic as fingernails on a slate but I'll admit it does flag "they" as singular], acquiring even one clue is a major change for Tilly, thus making them [nowhere near as grating as "they was"] a dynamic character.
Please, cite an authoritative source for this ruling. Have we instituted L'académie anglaise? If so, do they get spiffy uniforms with gold collars and swords, too, like the French? Seriously, even if the NY Times Style Book says to write it that way, it's still awkward as hell when spoken.I feel like this may upset you, but, uh, when using the singular "they," you still conjugate as you normally would with "they." "They were," "they like to read," "they laugh often."You mean Toffee?"The slightly less abrasive than before One," or, alternatively, "The slightly more sympathetic than before One."
Seriously, for as clueless as they was [that's as euphonic as fingernails on a slate but I'll admit it does flag "they" as singular], acquiring even one clue is a major change for Tilly, thus making them [nowhere near as grating as "they was"] a dynamic character.
Did you just cringe? How bad was it?Considerably less bad than the cringing that occurred when I read a post about someone's condescension toward "non-standard" vernacular.
Ja ja, other forum, I'm posting this in both.Well, no, I didn't cringe; I believe "they is" is a proper construct in AAVE, which is not a dialect I speak, but also not one that's cringe-inducing. I suppose my main view is, "you continue to conjugate for 'they' in the way that you normally do," and what that means may vary for the speaker.
For all the people arguing about conjugation; take the side of your palms opposite your thumbs and place them on the sides of your head in front of your auricles (the wedge bit in front of your ear holes). Now say "they is" alloud.
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Did you just cringe? How bad was it?
Please, cite an authoritative source for this ruling. Have we instituted L'académie anglaise? If so, do they get spiffy uniforms with gold collars and swords, too, like the French?
Seriously, even if the NY Times Style Book says to write it that way, it's still awkward as hell when spoken.
I think the random puns thread beat you to it. :)
All I know is that if we keep it up, the moderators will be looming over us.
I've seen several cases of the "Always wanting to help" mindset in some people, and what I usually end up finding out is that these people have been in multiple situations where friends and family have been abundantly over-critical of everything they do, or constantly put down any efforts on their part of trying to help. I've heard cases of lectures or verbal abuse over things as small as putting the bow on a present in a "Incorrect" spot, or them being belittled because they didn't do a extremely specific thing that they were never told but "Should have just known".
This builds a self destructive personality of "It was my fault. I should be a better person and think of others more than myself". The end result is that they over-extend in trying to be useful to others, not just because they want to help, but because of some subconscious desire for SOMEONE to look at what they did and say "Good job" instead of pointing out another very minor flaw.
Thank you, courteous longtime poster!