I can sympathize with Dale to a point, but he’s been with Marigold long enough to of her insecurities. He really should’ve exercised more tact.
Even though these two aren't the most, um, socially adept individuals, I'm surprised they're this bad at talking to each other.
All he had to say in panel 2 was, "'Cause you're the one I love, not her!" But that would have been quite a short story arc.
All he had to say in panel 2 was, "'Cause you're the one I love, not her!" But that would have been quite a short story arc.
To me, what happened is also a short story arc. I can't see any relationship recovering from what just happened.
Last week Dale stepped on a landmine.
This week he jumps up and down on it.
All he had to say in panel 2 was, "'Cause you're the one I love, not her!" But that would have been quite a short story arc.
To me, what happened is also a short story arc. I can't see any relationship recovering from what just happened.
EDIT: Also, people need to get over the fact that more than likely, your SO doesn't think you are the most attractive person, the smartest person, the funniest person, the most whatever person on the planet. Maybe it comes from being poly myself, but it just seems like a really unhealthy thing to expect.
If what my SO had to say about my looks was "Well, sure, she's prettier than you, but..." you can bet your butt I'd be out of there.
QuoteEDIT: Also, people need to get over the fact that more than likely, your SO doesn't think you are the most attractive person, the smartest person, the funniest person, the most whatever person on the planet. Maybe it comes from being poly myself, but it just seems like a really unhealthy thing to expect.
What does being poly have to do with it? Genuine question.
And sure, I know I'm not Lupita N'yongo or Manny Jacinto, but how does my SO telling me that lead to anything supportive or productive? Attractiveness is all subjective, anyways. If what my SO had to say about my looks was "Well, sure, she's prettier than you, but..." you can bet your butt I'd be out of there.
I would ask you in turn: Why? Isn't "prettiness" a rather arbitrary thing to feel judged over?
By saying what she did, if Dale thinks that Emily is prettier than her (also notice that he did air quotes around prettier, he could have meant in a traditional sense, whereas he was going to say something about finding her more attractive regardless, we don't know because he got cut off) he is given three options: 1. Lie, which I don't think anyone should have to do in a relationship, or 2. Avoid the subject entirely, in which case Marigold is still going to have it confirmed in her head (of course, he avoided saying it, its because he believes it!) 3. Tell the truth but say it doesn't matter to how he feels (what it looked like he was doing).
It isn't a contest. Marigold is the one making it a contest.
And despite what you say, I can't imagine you don't have friends you find funnier, friends you find more empathetic, friends you find smarter (to be fair, we usually break this down much further than just overall smart. I consider my wife to have much better language skills than me, but we both know that I'm better than her at math). It doesn't mean they are better as people, or that you care about them more or less because of it. Like you said: It isn't a competition. Not being a competition doesn't mean that we don't all have our strengths and weaknesses.
I mean, if your computer broke down (assuming of course, that you aren't the friend who is good with computers), you know which friend you would call right? It isn't a situation where all of them are equally smart.
Except Emily isn't just "good with computers". She is LITERALLY a super genius. She has done stuff that goes into the Arthur C. Clarke "indistinguishable from magic" level.
Honestly, I wouldn't consider being told that I'm not as smart as someone who is clearly on a level beyond 99.999999% of humanity as an insult. And I consider my intelligence to be one of my better traits (I've never felt intellectually challenged, not even at college. Most of the challenge I've faced mentally was boredom).
I think it's more a case of Dale doing the classic thing of answering the question that's being asked rather than the question that's implied. I don't think that's his fault or that it's something he should be castigated for, it's just that the nature of the discussion is completely different to what he first thought so he's been taken off guard. In a perfect world he'd be in tune with what his partner's red flags are and spot when they are triggered, but even the most loving of couples aren't going to get that right all the time.
At a basic level, I don't think Marigold cares whether Dale thinks she's the cleverest or funniest. What matters to Marigold is whether Dale cares for her.
Here, let me explain more thoroughly by what I mean about a lack of sympathy for people who are having to deal with other people's mental issues (which I agree are self esteem issues are not necessarily pathological, but it is still on the list of things that we generally fall into this trap over)
=snip--no offence intended, just wanted to reply to the whole post=
That nails it. The thing to say here is not whether, how, or in what respect Marigold is better or worse than Emily. The thing to say is that you like Marigold better than Emily. Then you say, not why you like her better, but how you like her better. You fuck saying it up completely, because you did not rehearse for this, but you reel forward blushing, sweating, and stammering, because your sweetie is suffering because of how she feels about you, and this is what you can do to help. With a little luck you get credit for having the right feelings though no ability to express them, and she feels better. What matters is that she should feel better. The whole concept here is that you care about how she feels.
Quote from: Emperor NortonHere, let me explain more thoroughly by what I mean about a lack of sympathy for people who are having to deal with other people's mental issues (which I agree are self esteem issues are not necessarily pathological, but it is still on the list of things that we generally fall into this trap over)
=snip--no offence intended, just wanted to reply to the whole post=
Thing is (what I'd argue),
a) I honestly don't know if Marigold's putting Dale on the defensive so much as seeking validation. There's "So you like working with Emily, huh" and "What were you laughing about as I came in?", but that doesn't quite read to me as an accusation. I think if she was accusing him of cheating there would be a lot more of "How much time do you spend together?" and "You think she's pretty, huh? Tell me more". It looks like she wants reassurance, primarily, and when Dale doesn't provide it she storms off in a huff--which no, definitely not an ideal response, but, well, she feels hurt and upset, and if Dale's not allowed to be perfect than Marigold's allowed to not be perfect, too.
b) There is (depressingly often) a dynamic at play where people--guys, primarily--get away with being tactless or thoughtless or socially illiterate under the guise of "just being honest" or "I'm only being logical" or "oh, they're just like that", and other people--primarily girls--are expected to pick up the emotional labour. I don't think anyone expects Dale to be perfect at reading people's feelings, but I also kind of hope "don't your SO they're not as pretty/smart/nice/funny as x person" would be social literacy 101.
The idea that there was a right answer is an assumption. She was already angry, and angry people don't tend to even listen to what people are saying. I'm not sold on the idea that there was something he could have said that would have made the situation turn out better.
I guess for me, it's just weird to quantify things like attractiveness and humour and intelligence, where it's like everything's on a scale and you can measure it. It'd be like saying "this apple is obviously better than this orange", only every single person on Earth is a different kind of fruit.
I can't help but wonder if, normally they don't communicate much verbally at all. It's possible that their interactions are normally to playing games, watching (and critiquing) animé and sex. They've never really got to the point where they discuss feelings for each other, outside of reassuring each other that any doubts the other has are silly.
I think it's more a case of Dale doing the classic thing of answering the question that's being asked rather than the question that's implied.
Dale, here's a slightly better approach:
http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2010/05/13/0164-tipping-point/
I can sympathize with Dale to a point, but he’s been with Marigold long enough to of her insecurities. He really should’ve exercised more tact.But he's an ubernerd - he doesn't know how.
I wouldn't even consider it emotionally illiterate. I also wouldn't consider it "stupid and useless". We have no idea what his point was, or what he was about to say: She never let him finish talking.
(also notice that he did air quotes around prettier
(also notice that he did air quotes around prettier
While my first reaction to all of this was "Dale, you are thick as pig****," combined with a healthy dose of "Marigold, CALM THE **** DOWN," the one thing I did want to raise is about the air quotes thing.
Sure, Dale may have been intending to turn the phrase at that point, and the air quote was supposed to help him with that, but (barring a particular reason why they might not be capable) even the most oblivious nerd should be intuitively aware that hand gestures that cannot be seen cannot be interpreted, and Marigold's back was to him. If he's going to say something that requires some sort of gesture, he needs to either get in front of Marigold or find some other way to say it.
I'm just hoping that this proves to be relatively easy for them to get over, mainly because jealous insecurity already ended Marten and Dora's relationship, and I'd be more interested in seeing the strip explore new territory rather than mining old ground again.
So is Fighter Jet Weekly porn for May?
When speaking with an upset woman, less is more. I try to keep it to 3 words or fewer.
- I'm wrong.
- You're right (insert absolutely if you are in deep).
- I'm sorry.
- I love you.
- Yes, Dear.
In dire times, you can string them together, but no more than 3.
Like, "Yes dear, you're right, I am sorry."
Dale REALLY needed a Momo intervention.
He got May.
Poor Dale.
Classes on relationships would be great, but I feel somehow that there are some things that can't be grokked until you've been there, done that, and have the scars to prove it.
I'm pretty sure that everyone (and I mean everyone) would have taken a 'how to relationship' class if it existed and was actually worth a damn. As one or both of those criteria are never met, I'm thinking that this is simply something that you can't teach.
Now, I want to talk about May's recreational reading: It's interesting to see Jeph recall that May really doesn't want to be humanoid at all. She wants to be a fighter jet and she still keeps up with what I presume is a high-performance aviation lifestyle magazine. Obviously, AIs attempting to embezzle to get a fighter drone chassis is a significant problem, given the PSA on the back page: "Don't do crime to be a plane!" It's clearly a lesson that May had to learn the hard way!The magazine being called "Fighter Jet Monthly" says to me that its target audience is AIs who are fighter jets.
Who'd like to see May become a 'plane, maybe something like a Quinjet from the MCU, and still try to keep up with her friends?Maybe eventually, sure, why not?
Now, I want to talk about May's recreational reading: It's interesting to see Jeph recall that May really doesn't want to be humanoid at all. She wants to be a fighter jet and she still keeps up with what I presume is a high-performance aviation lifestyle magazine. Obviously, AIs attempting to embezzle to get a fighter drone chassis is a significant problem, given the PSA on the back page: "Don't do crime to be a plane!" It's clearly a lesson that May had to learn the hard way!
The magazine being called "Fighter Jet Monthly" says to me that its target audience is AIs who are fighter jets.
What does an AI need with a magazine? :D
I mean, can't AIs just slurp the stuff into their brains via the 'net?
It's like Star Trek Voyager's "Doctor" operating one of the computer consoles and using PADDs. He is the ship's computer, isn't he?
n.b.: Why would a magazine aimed at fighter jet AIs have that PSA on the back? Well, apparently, in the QCverse as in ours, magazine publishers know that for most special-interest magazines, their readership is largely about wish fulfilment.
So is Fighter Jet Weekly pornfor May?
Again, why the difference between a male friend and a female friend? I get not having enough time to spend with both friends and your SO, that is perfectly understandable, what I don't get it why it matters what the gender of the friend you do spend with is.
Dale: "I was just being honest."
Rant warning.
Being honest consists of not lying. It does not consist of saying anything that comes into your head that happens to be true.
End rant warning.
When you are put in a situation in which your options are to respond with honesty, avoid the topic, or lie outright, an argument could be made that avoiding the topic could be considered lying by omission.
I mean, it is entirely possible to be deceptive without actually saying anything false.
I honestly feel as though people are treating it like Dale brought this up unprovoked, rather than being put in an incredibly tricky situation that was in no way his fault.
So is Fighter Jet Weekly pornfor May?
Yes(click to show/hide)
So is Fighter Jet Weekly pornfor May?
Yes(click to show/hide)
DUDE! A little warning about that porn!
You know who I actually feel the worst for in this situation though. Emily. She seems like the type who would feel pretty bad about being the impetus for a fight, even though it isn't like she did anything at all.
I'm pretty sure that everyone (and I mean everyone) would have taken a 'how to relationship' class if it existed and was actually worth a damn. As one or both of those criteria are never met, I'm thinking that this is simply something that you can't teach. Dale, like the rest of us, is going to have to muddle through this with the occasional blow to the head from a clue-hammer wielded by his friends.
Now, I want to talk about May's recreational reading: It's interesting to see Jeph recall that May really doesn't want to be humanoid at all. She wants to be a fighter jet and she still keeps up with what I presume is a high-performance aviation lifestyle magazine. Obviously, AIs attempting to embezzle to get a fighter drone chassis is a significant problem, given the PSA on the back page: "Don't do crime to be a plane!" It's clearly a lesson that May had to learn the hard way!
Who'd like to see May become a 'plane, maybe something like a Quinjet from the MCU, and still try to keep up with her friends?
May reading the Jet Fighter mag made me chuckle.
One would think they'd download it tho.... :-D
I am curious about how an AI that aspires to be a fighter drone and has some of the worst social interaction skills could be so astute about human relationships.
Meanwhile, I can't help but imagine May (in a VTOL fighter jet chassis) attempting to play the role of flower girl. In a bizarre way, it actually works.
May reading the Jet Fighter mag made me chuckle.I imagine May rolling out to the opening theme from Top Gun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxvXj9nff4) looking like a Valkyrie from Macross..
May is absolutely crushing it in today's strip. She swears because she cares, and she immediately cuts the blame-allocation and self-recrimination spiral. Doesn't matter whose fault it is, just fix this damn mess.Just so. I think Jeph crushed it too, with unexpectedly good advice from an unexpected source.
Meanwhile, I can't help but imagine May (in a VTOL fighter jet chassis) attempting to play the role of flower girl. In a bizarre way, it actually works.
She could fly low over the wedding just after the vows and drop several sackfuls of rose petals.
Tova, at the risk of sounding Banneresque, You do NOT want me to post about such things when I am angry...
And yes, I am... quite!
You may have missed the post I made regarding "Jeemy" and how I feel he was hounded off the board by people asking more and more for his explanation into something which had personally affected him. What you are saying above is similar to that.
I have mentioned more than once (fleetingly) the devastating effects 'jealousy' has played in my life.
To have that experience called a) lies and b) ridiculous is WAY more insulting than you might care to believe.
So, are you saying, therefore, that I need to lay out chapter and verse precisely WHY I believe that Jealousy is not a "just get over it!" topic?
I need to explain it all in full, graphic and heart-breaking detail? Rather than just allude to my experience...?
Or is that what is required to not be called a liar?
Or to not have ones experience of such a thing be labelled as "ridiculous"...?
(I also suggested this topic be moved to another sub-forum.. that didn't happen either...)
Why am I supposed to care about Dale and Margiold again? He's immature and she's worse. Next subplot, please.
Why am I supposed to care about Dale and Margiold again? He's immature and she's worse. Next subplot, please.
Would you rather they be well-advised? What story points arise from a happy relationship?
Why am I supposed to care about Dale and Margiold again? He's immature and she's worse. Next subplot, please.
Why am I supposed to care about Dale and Margiold again? He's immature and she's worse. Next subplot, please.
May reading the Jet Fighter mag made me chuckle.
One would think they'd download it tho.... :-D
And forego the chance of being "surprised" enjoying Jet Fighter pron?
That's like Pintsize not tweeting about ... the stuff he downloads
(Yes, he actually has a real Twitter-account. Yes, you could check. Yes, you should definitely meditate on the phrase "what has been seen cannot be unseen" before you do.)
You know Dale is being serious when he turns off the anime filter on his AR glasses.
PS: come to think of it, Marigold's imagination might not be that far from reality, you just need to replace the sexy Emily with a super cute anime Emily
On the other hand, Emily does tend have some ... interesting effects on technology from time to time. Perhaps it's just safer to turn the glasses off.
May has been something-related-to-advising on this relationship even before it started. It is possible she feels like she owes Dale something and is trying to pay it back.
How does she know what advice to give? She might have a social protocol database too. She may have spent her time in Robot Jail "reading" and gotten started on books about human relationships.
Those books exist because some things can be taught. Active listening, random acts of kindness, the five to one ratio -- all teachable skills. We teach kids what to do in a fire. Being in a relationship is more likely.
For heaven's sake, I would have been incomparably better off if someone had explained during my dating years that the overwhelming majority of rejections had nothing to do with me and did not constitute a pattern.
Hmm. I'm about to trigger a split into RELATE, aren't I?
Is there a Relate thread on best self help books?
How about a micro-quad copter?Who'd like to see May become a 'plane, maybe something like a Quinjet from the MCU, and still try to keep up with her friends?Make sure she at least has a GIR-walk mode so she isn't stuck in a hangar or on a tarmac when she isn't flying.
Well, visual clues about age would not necessarily be a reliable indicator of maturity for an AI, especially one embodied in a "welfare" cheap refurb chassis issued off-the-rack, so to speak, when she was released from robotjail.
May is actually much older than she looks, and has acquired knowledge of humans just by being around a long time. This is unlikely, but I like the image of someone very old inside that little doll body.
Updated!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3684
Yes, I'd pick a Gundam too, honestly....
That Jeph has chosen May to give relationship advice is supposed to show the depths of Dale's cluelessness, I think. ( at least it wasn't Pintsize... )
Most weddings would be better without May.
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.
I don't even like to drive. I'd pass on the Gundam and keep the partner 100% of the time.
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.
I don't even like to drive. I'd pass on the Gundam and keep the partner 100% of the time.
Damn right. A Gundam is an 18 meter tall, 60 ton white elephant. (And blue, and red, and gold.) Like any combat vehicle, it requires an enormous amount of fuel, maintenance, etc etc for every minute of actual operation. Even when it's inactive, it takes up space. And it is a gigantic trouble magnet.
Well. Inability to see your own issues is a recurring theme inQChumanity.
Has Marigold always had that severe of an overbite, or is it a new-ish artistic license to create "cuter" MarMar?
I keep trying to figure out how exactly one would have sex with a pilotable Gundam boyfriend.
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
But then I realised that Momo was drawn as well as ever...
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
I confess that I have not studied the matter properly, but aren't Gundam mindless fighting suits? If so, there would be no one in that virtual world but you.
Updated!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3684
Yes, I'd pick a Gundam too, honestly....
You know, you could just say “comics up”, we already know the basic url for the comic...
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.
Except me. I’d go for the Kaiju option.
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
I confess that I have not studied the matter properly, but aren't Gundam mindless fighting suits? If so, there would be no one in that virtual world but you.
Several Gundams have shown some amount of autonomy actually. The examples that come to mind are all from Gundam Wing though, like Sandrock basically telling Quatre "get the fuck out, I got this" before it walked out into a battlefield and exploded. The Zero system also did some stuff that might be examples of the beginning of AI.
I keep trying to figure out how exactly one would have sex with a pilotable Gundam boyfriend. I get as far as the mecha fumbling around inside its head, and then basic conceptual physics begins to get in the way. I always thought that literally unthinkable acts would be more lurid somehow.
Next QC startup: Momo and May set up a relationship counseling service.
Updated!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3684
Yes, I'd pick a Gundam too, honestly....
You know, you could just say “comics up”, we already know the basic url for the comic...
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.
Except me. I’d go for the Kaiju option.
GODZILLA!
I like direct linking. It's a thing. *shrug*
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
I confess that I have not studied the matter properly, but aren't Gundam mindless fighting suits? If so, there would be no one in that virtual world but you.
"At least it's sex with someone I love..."
Next QC startup: Momo and May set up a relationship counseling service.
They would be playing it like a good cop-bad cop thing...
Dammit, now I want a t-shirt that says "My other girlfriend is an ASW-G-08 Gundam Barbatos Lupus." Not to wear. Heaven forfend. Just to have.
I appreciate the linking as it can be helpful to know what page people are discussing if one's not reading the comments right away.Updated!
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3684
Yes, I'd pick a Gundam too, honestly....
You know, you could just say “comics up”, we already know the basic url for the comic...
Several Gundams have shown some amount of autonomy actually. The examples that come to mind are all from Gundam Wing though, like Sandrock basically telling Quatre "get the fuck out, I got this" before it walked out into a battlefield and exploded. The Zero system also did some stuff that might be examples of the beginning of AI.
Well all right. A sound choice, then. Probably not a lot more socially able than the average guy, but definitely cuter.
God damn it, I am getting faintly teary at the thought of a fighting suit in a series I have never seen and have no interest in seeing sacrificing itself. Definitely time to go outdoors and contemplate the humans.
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
I confess that I have not studied the matter properly, but aren't Gundam mindless fighting suits? If so, there would be no one in that virtual world but you.
Several Gundams have shown some amount of autonomy actually. The examples that come to mind are all from Gundam Wing though, like Sandrock basically telling Quatre "get the fuck out, I got this" before it walked out into a battlefield and exploded. The Zero system also did some stuff that might be examples of the beginning of AI.
The same way Station was basically proposing Hannelore would have sex with a large Coriolis space station: Via a neural interface that would enable them to interact in a virtual environment.
I confess that I have not studied the matter properly, but aren't Gundam mindless fighting suits? If so, there would be no one in that virtual world but you.
Several Gundams have shown some amount of autonomy actually. The examples that come to mind are all from Gundam Wing though, like Sandrock basically telling Quatre "get the fuck out, I got this" before it walked out into a battlefield and exploded. The Zero system also did some stuff that might be examples of the beginning of AI.
The various Gundam series have changed a lot in tone and technology. In the beginning of the franchise the mecha were just vehicles. Gundam was actually made in counter to the prevelant 'Boy and Robot' Giant Robot shows that were popular at that time, like Mazinger Z. Instead of a young child and his non-piloted autonomous robot companion Gundam pushed for piloted humanoid vehicles as a weapon of war. They didn't operate on their own and made some nods towards plausible science. As much as a show about walking tanks could anyway. They did have nods to super science shenanigans in from the beginning, mostly in the development of the psychic Newtype pilots and machines specifically for them to fly.
More and more spin offs and sequels came out though and a number of them stray pretty far from the military machine story and concepts. Gundam Wing for insteads borrowed a lot of concepts from Sentai style shows. All the pilots were Newtypes who had their own specialized machines that they could supercharge with nothing but the power of their mind alone. The original Newtype psychic powers were more like very short precognition... The pilot would just 'know' where attacks were coming from, or how any enemy was going to move so they could better intercept them. Rarely more than that. The Wing Gundams physically could transform by their pilots using their super powers. So just saying 'Gundam' really covers a pretty broad spectrum of possibilities.
No, really, how does May know this?
Not sure Squirrel Marigold is a good look.
No, really, how does May know this?
Perhaps AIs simply get training on human relationships and characteristics. Be pretty damn essential for those taking on the companion role, and it would also be highly desirable for treating the sociopathic in robot jail. World might be a better place if humans got training too.
And I think everyone would pick the pilotable mech over a partner.I'm a bit meh on mechs, honestly, but I could be tempted by a spaceship. After all, I took my forum handle from Akima Kunimoto, a skilled and daring animated pilot...
Dang, ninja'd.
Humans getting advice from AIs on how to be human. LOL.
If there's one thing I've learned in my relationship, is that after a fight (and after some time to cool off and to regain the ability to think clearly), the best thing you can do is to openly confess shortcomings, however minor they may seem (in reality, probably not). This is infinitely more likely to result in your partner reciprocating, whereas shooting accusations and demanding changes in behaviour will just result in barriers going up.
Who the Hell would allow May to even OWN a tanto, let alone play with it openly?
Isn't she still on probation? Wouldn't that be a violation thereof? Of course, she was eye-fucking the pages of "Jet Fighter Weekly" earlier.
FIRST RULE OF RELATIONSHIPS:
The guy apologizes FIRST.
I like how completely unfazed Dale is at May's semi-unsheathing that tanto.Who else could be his kaishakunin? :wink: More good advice from May, whichever teaching-aids she employs.
Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.
It works well, if the other person has self-awareness. Marigold has never shown an inkling of self-awareness. Based on her personality as written so far, I'd be honestly surprised if her reaction wasn't "Dale apologized, therefore everything is good now." And then didn't acknowledge any of her own shortcomings. Even when Momo tried to point out her shortcoming in communicating properly, she deflected it rather than face it. And then, to add in, that no one seems to be addressing that the level of jealousy and how upset she got was not a healthy reaction at all to begin with.
So, am I the only one that is unaccountably concerned about May unsheathing that knife a little when she got annoyed with Dale? I don't think that she's the sort who will be violent but it does make me wonder if her face was damaged by a sword falling on her or whether she was swinging it around in anger at the way her arm was mucking her around. I'm saying that maybe she has a temper and maybe sometimes it gets the better of her!
It works well, if the other person has self-awareness. Marigold has never shown an inkling of self-awareness. Based on her personality as written so far, I'd be honestly surprised if her reaction wasn't "Dale apologized, therefore everything is good now." And then didn't acknowledge any of her own shortcomings. Even when Momo tried to point out her shortcoming in communicating properly, she deflected it rather than face it. And then, to add in, that no one seems to be addressing that the level of jealousy and how upset she got was not a healthy reaction at all to begin with.
Wouldn't an outside perspective offer insight that we might have missed?Also think about the quality of the advice frequently offered by humans to humans... I abso-bloody-lutely guarantee that in 100years time social mores and conventions will have changed so much that the average agony aunt advice from today will look just as frigging ridiculous and even dangerous as the advice their predecessors were handing out 100 years ago looks today.
Wouldn't an outside perspective offer insight that we might have missed?Also think about the quality of the advice frequently offered by humans to humans... I abso-bloody-lutely guarantee that in 100years time social mores and conventions will have changed so much that the average agony aunt advice from today will look just as frigging ridiculous and even dangerous as the advice their predecessors were handing out 100 years ago looks today.
Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.
Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.
Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.
Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.
I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.
I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.
Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.
I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.
I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
This whole story arc is shaping up as pedantic and moralistic, with the humans falling into sin and error and their wise robot companions setting them back on the path of righteousness.
More could have been done with Dale and Marigold examining their feelings toward each other,
That's coming - remember how slowly Jeph's story arcs build (and if that doesn't suit you, or tries your patience too far, then maybe this is the wrong comic for you).
Side note: has May ever met Bubbles? Have they/could they talk about fighter jets?
Hopefully after they make up they can sort out the undelying problems so we don't end up http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1798 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1798).
Side note: has May ever met Bubbles? Have they/could they talk about fighter jets?
Yes, early on at the party Faye threw to try and draw Bubbles out of her shell. May's reaction was pretty much throwing up her arms and going 'My Queen!' and insisting that she get pictures when Bubbles and Faye started boning. Honestly I don't know if it's just she's lucky sometimes or better at sussing out early relationships than we give her credit for.
Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.
Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.
I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.
I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
tbf, it is a little bit. But that's okay. I've heard it explained like this: People have a (conscious and subconscious) list of things they look for in a partner- let's say 10 things. Often that list includes things that are inherently contradictory- safe and exciting, for example, or funny and serious. So finding someone who is 10 out of 10 is essentially possible, But when we find ourselves with someone who scores 7 say, we find we are perfectly happy and content so we cheerfully compromise. But we do still miss those missing 3 things, so when we see someone else who has them, we may think we've found our perfect 10 because they fill in the gaps, without stopping to see if they actually are all that.
(spoilers: they probably wont be.)
The key seems to be to remind yourself of all the things that you do love abut your partner, and focus on those. That certainly seems to be the gist of May's advice.
For the record, I am talking about relationships where things are normally fine and happy. If a relationship is actively making you miserable, you are absolutely not obligated to stay.
Nothing to do with the current topic...
But I LOVE Jim's assertion that he can guarantee we (humans) will all still be around in 100 years time! :)
:parrot:
Tbh, I got the 'Dale is settling for Marigold' vibe too, from May and Momo, which is weird. Dale actively pursued Marigold, in his weird stalker way, and didn't give up when she rejected him a few different ways. I am also not entirely sure how Dale manages to be that socially inept, since he had a lot of jobs, usually with customer interaction (Pharmacy, Pizza delivery, Coffee shop..).
I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
Really? I get that vibe from Momo, with the "Well, you'd rather have a pilotable Gundam than him!" in response to claims of him preferring Emily, giving a strong inference that Emily is unattainable for Dale in a similar way that a pilotable Gundam would be for Marigold. Also, "He cares for you very much!" is a... weak counterargument to "He'd rather be with someone else than me", again implying that there's no solid argument against Dale preferring Emily, but she's just out of his league.
Tbh, I got the 'Dale is settling for Marigold' vibe too, from May and Momo, which is weird. Dale actively pursued Marigold, in his weird stalker way, and didn't give up when she rejected him a few different ways. I am also not entirely sure how Dale manages to be that socially inept, since he had a lot of jobs, usually with customer interaction (Pharmacy, Pizza delivery, Coffee shop..).
I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
Really? I get that vibe from Momo, with the "Well, you'd rather have a pilotable Gundam than him!" in response to claims of him preferring Emily, giving a strong inference that Emily is unattainable for Dale in a similar way that a pilotable Gundam would be for Marigold. Also, "He cares for you very much!" is a... weak counterargument to "He'd rather be with someone else than me", again implying that there's no solid argument against Dale preferring Emily, but she's just out of his league.
A lot could have been avoided if Marigold had told Dale she was feeling kind of jealous instead of leading questions about how great he thinks Emily is.
On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.
So what are Marigold's good points?
On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.
I'm being finicky, or maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's about developing self-esteem and security in the relationship. It's also about expressing her feelings more effectively and confidently, which is where the communication part comes in.
I think that feeling intensely jealous but controlling her feelings (aka bottling them up) is less healthy than what we've already seen.
Controlling your feelings is not bottling them up. Its not letting them control you. If someone started throwing punches when they were angry and I said "you need to control your emotions" would you assume I meant to bottle it up?
She had zero contemplation over whether what she was feeling was rational. She immediately just jumped to a conclusion "Dale prefers Emily to me" and then everything she did revolved around that conclusion, driven solely by emotion. Even when Momo tried to talk to her about it just being a miscommunication, she still jumped to that conclusion, again, not considering that she could be anything but right about it. And she honestly has zero contemplation about how her emotions/actions are affecting Dale. Notice that Dale's questions to May are "how do I fix this" whereas Marigold is more concerned about how she feels.
I am honestly baffled that "hey, check your emotions and try and make sure that they aren't controlling you" is getting blowback.
And no one called Marigold a monster. I've repeatedly said that my issue is that NO ONE in the comic is actually bringing up that that level of jealousy is a problem in and of itself. If you can't handle your SO talking to a coworker and laughing because they happen to be pretty, then there is some fundamental problem that you need to work on. That is not healthy. It's a disproportionate reaction to a frankly benign circumstance.
If I got angry enough to stomp out of the room every time my wife put the Milk in the door of the fridge rather than the main compartment, would you think that that is reasonable and that there is no burden on me to learn to deal with something so small and petty?
The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.
On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.
I'm being finicky, or maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's about developing self-esteem and security in the relationship. It's also about expressing her feelings more effectively and confidently, which is where the communication part comes in.
I think that feeling intensely jealous but controlling her feelings (aka bottling them up) is less healthy than what we've already seen.
Well, of course, you don't say "Wow that is horrible."
I would probably approach it by reversing the situation.
Something like "Well, what if Angus was visiting, and Dale saw you laughing at something Angus said, and he got upset and stomped out when you said you thought he was funny/smart/handsome whatever in response to some questions? Angus is a funny guy, I mean, his job is to be funny. And he's good-looking, and he is pretty smart."
The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.
My wife compares their emotional and dramatic role to that of servants in 17th century French plays.
I was so in awe of her nerdhood that I didn't ask what she meant.
It could also be a development of the 'clever slave' trope from Ancient Roman and Greek plays.The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.
My wife compares their emotional and dramatic role to that of servants in 17th century French plays.
I was so in awe of her nerdhood that I didn't ask what she meant.
Aww. Bragging on his wife. Sweetest damned thing.
But I wish you had asked. Are the servants more rational because less emotional because less refined and sensitive?
I am honestly baffled that "hey, check your emotions and try and make sure that they aren't controlling you" is getting blowback.
Do people really think that becoming incredibly noticeably angry because your boyfriend is laughing at something an attractive female coworker said to him, at work, isn't a problem that needs to be worked on?
When she is made aware of how what she is doing is affecting others, she tends to do the right thing, she just doesn't tend to think from other people's perspective at all. And no one seems to be helping her see how what she is doing is affecting others.
Momo is like, “heck yeah Dale WOULD rather be with Emily, but she is unattainable, like a Mecha. It’s silly to be jealous of that.”
The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.
My wife compares their emotional and dramatic role to that of servants in 17th century French plays.
I was so in awe of her nerdhood that I didn't ask what she meant.
Aww. Bragging on your wife. Sweetest damned thing.
But I wish you had asked. Are the servants more rational because less emotional because less refined and sensitive?
I meant mostly that the relationships involving robots serve as counterpoint story lines to the human-to-human ones. It allows the dramatist (here, Jeff) to offer different perspectives on the same issues and the same characters, from those whose social standing and roles in the society are different enough to give them differing outlooks. Also, their brains function differently, which can be the case with some humans as well. He has done the same with certain human characters (e.g., Claire, Hannelore.)
In those old French comedies, yes, it's understood that the servants are less refined and sensitive, and much less educated, but as servants they're often aspiring to be more like their "betters" (hence, servant romances where a valet tries to use high-flown poetic language to woo a ladies' maid, offering great comedic potential.) That's usually not the case with QC robots, but yes, the often-less-refined thing is.
In those plays, the servants are sometimes more rational because they tend to be more practical, although rationality isn't the strong suit in either comedy or drama--the best stories come from characters who run their lives from their emotions. Because of the servants' lower standing--the fact that nobody has to pay that much attention to what they say, they can comment on obvious things about the other characters and their situations that the upper-class characters are too polite to say. (This is true of plays from other cultures as well--there are many examples in Shakespeare.) In this connection, for QC think Pintsize or May.
Found it! I see what you’re saying. I disagree tho, because introducing the Mecha element made it more like different gradations of apples re quality and accessibility.
Found it! I see what you’re saying. I disagree tho, because introducing the Mecha element made it more like different gradations of apples re quality and accessibility.
Okay, yes, I see what you mean re Momo's speech. I was thinking of May's, but that's not what you were referring to.
Both, of course.
She is his favourite because of her flaws.Well yeah. Perfect characters are mind bogglingly tedious in fiction. In real life too I expect.
Though, if handled correctly, they can be interesting. Mary Sue from the webcomic League of Redunt Superheroes for example.She is his favourite because of her flaws.Well yeah. Perfect characters are mind bogglingly tedious in fiction. In real life too I expect.
I get by.She is his favourite because of her flaws.Well yeah. Perfect characters are mind bogglingly tedious in fiction. In real life too I expect.
The great thing about stories is that you can take them apart to see how they work and to look at them from all angles without hurting them, and they go right back together afterward.
I get by.She is his favourite because of her flaws.Well yeah. Perfect characters are mind bogglingly tedious in fiction. In real life too I expect.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:10:54 by gopher »
Sorry for the double post.I knew I recognized that song title!
So, I was listening to some music and decided to play the Coco soundtrack. When I came to the track titled Everyone Knows Juanita, I immediately thought of this thread. It's a short simple song that goes to the heart of the strange and ineffable nature of human attraction. It seemed relevant to this conversation, so here it is.
https://youtu.be/c8q-pzrEIPc
Let me rephrase. I personally find that overanalysis can kill even the best stories.
With respect to that Venn diagram on just how much a teacher can get something wrong - My little brother took a course in uni and the prof was failing a certain mature student who was argumentative about key points on the subject matter until mud terms. The story goes that the student went to the dean to complain about the prof and how they were getting the course material completely wrong. The dean was fully supportive of the prof until the student put the course text on his desk and asked him if the prof wrote the book. In a comedy film there would be the sound effects of grinding gears and screeching tires. - Why yes this mature student was the author of the book and his picture was on the back of the dust jacket - The gentleman in question did not have the appropriate degree for his position under government contract so his company sponsored his return to school to keep the bureaucrats happy. - I think the former prof is now selling real-estate :roll: