Is it just me or does Bubble's ponytail appear to be tensing up? I know AIs can blush so I suppose that's a built in capability too.
I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
Mature behavior just isn't very entertaining. If it was, Jerry Springer would have no television career.I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
Mature behavior just isn't very entertaining. If it was, Jerry Springer would have no television career.I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
They could have a fight that sends Claire into something of a panic because this is her first serious relationship and she's messing it up, but Marten has learned from Dora and Padma and does better about actively pursuing her to talk it out?
We know Claire's a grad student but we don't know how far into her program she is; she can freak out over what she's going to do next and how that's going to affect things with Marten.
I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
Considering today's comic we might get more Faye/Bubbles this week, and I'm perfectly fine with that because Bubbles behavior towards Faye just has such an innocent quality to it… It's adorable.
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
They could have a fight that sends Claire into something of a panic because this is her first serious relationship and she's messing it up, but Marten has learned from Dora and Padma and does better about actively pursuing her to talk it out?
We know Claire's a grad student but we don't know how far into her program she is; she can freak out over what she's going to do next and how that's going to affect things with Marten.
He has a limited range of options for her employment, either a public library or a college library. She could end up in a choice of moving away to accept the job or staying there and hoping a job opens up in the region...or in other words, it's Angus and Faye all over again.
He has a limited range of options for her employment, either a public library or a college library. She could end up in a choice of moving away to accept the job or staying there and hoping a job opens up in the region...or in other words, it's Angus and Faye all over again.
My birthday strip this year is more fuel on the Faye/Bubbles fire. I'm okay with this.
Has Bubbles always had the seam line around her pelvis? Or has it been hidden by shorts or trousers? It looks a little odd with the leotard, more action figure-y and less like she's wearing something.
Well that was unexpected, as avoidant as Faye had been I wouldn't have thought she'd do anything that could possibly come across as flirtatious. Especially after the previous comic...and I was surprised she said "maybe" then, too. Maybe she's starting to come around to the idea and cautiously exploring the edges.
Being a romantic at heart, I've long wanted an arc where Marten proposes to Claire at Coffee of Doom (after hiring the place for a 'private party', something that Dora never thought that would ever happen). Naturally, it all gets awkward because of the number of former crushes and GFs who end up attending to congratulate him and approve of his choice on several levels.I like the first half of that, but the latter part seems a bit far-fetched. Other than Dora, the only ex Marten has in the area is Vicky (I think I remembered her name right), and it’s not likely anyone would invite her to a private party for Marten.
Some characters get fed to allosauruses. Others get fed to pigs. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3428)That was Sara’s own fault for trying to make friends with the allosaurus in the first place.
My birthday strip this year is more fuel on the Faye/Bubbles fire. I'm okay with this.
Some characters get fed to allosauruses. Others get fed to pigs. (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3428)That was Sara’s own fault for trying to make friends with the allosaurus in the first place.
I know that’s what Tortura said she would do, but it would be interesting to see if she’d follow through, or if — depending on the circumstances — she would instead give her a big hug and ask if she’s OK... sort of like Veronica did with Dora.
That's the thing: Faye seems to have convinced herself that Bubbles can't be crushing on her. Because of that, she's failing to consider her actions carefully. So, she's responding to Bubbles' occasional flirtations and being unselfconscious around Bubbles because she doesn't consciously realise how bad (or good) that could be for their friendship.
So, looks like we're gonna find out whether Bubbles' (presumably custom/milspec) chassis vents excess heat in the same way as Ofc. Basilisk's.
Finding the right level for anti-shipping vigilance has been a challenge.
I think [Faye and Bubbles] story arc should get resolved (or at least taken tothe nexta new stage of development) sooner rather than later.
I personally find it upsetting when the main WCDT is mainly gossipy speculation about romantic/sexual relationships.
When I read this morning's comic I literally said 'AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW SHIT SON' out loud.
Then chastised myself via inner monologue over cultural appropriation, but you know.I personally find it upsetting when the main WCDT is mainly gossipy speculation about romantic/sexual relationships.
The moderators are in discussion about this, but do bear in mind that the 'no shipping' rule was mainly due to how outlandish the shipping was; the strip is itself laying out a lot of potential relationships so it's become more complicated, but we're talking about it in the mod forum.
If I'm not personally the object of their attention, it's still just petty gossip, and it diminishes my perception of people when they behave like petty gossips. I just wind up waiting for it to be over, and hoping people will stop behaving that way.
So anyway.... To make it short, I'm uncomfortable with the shipping. I dislike it, usually avoid threads where it's the main event, and sincerely miss the eager enforcement of the no-shipping rule this board used to have. I personally find it upsetting when the main WCDT is mainly gossipy speculation about romantic/sexual relationships.
That being said, I think their story arc should get resolved (or at least taken tothe nexta new stage of development) sooner rather than later.
So why doesn't anybody seem to appreciate the current situation as a thing in itself, instead of just as a transitory state toward what they imagine some future situation might be?
Right, but the characters themselves, in comic, obviously desire that outcome for themselves. It's not just people projecting what they want, they're discussing what is in media res.
Or, because a picture is worth a thousand words;
(https://i.imgur.com/4WG2nCJ.png)
I voted for Marten/Claire, mostly because I still regard Marten as part of the "main cast" (I even used to think of him as the main character, but that belief is long gone), and he hasn't got much spotlight for quite some time now. I realize that his and Claire's story might not be very high on everyone's priority list right now, but still…
There's only two things Jeph can really do with the couple: split them up or marry them off. They are already sexual and live together, the next step forward is marriage. Conversely, the next step back is breaking up over something one of them may do but given the personalities, neither will break it off.
So they are stagnant, especially Marten. At least Claire has a chance to develop in other ways but Jeph isn't going down that road yet....perhaps a backstory arc?
I think a discussion of Bubbles' self-esteem and feeling like she's *worthy* of having a romantic relationship would be on point here. As might her fear of loss of control. And whether Faye has ever shown the least inclination toward romance or sexual feelings toward anyone at all except human males, whether heterosexuality is an important part of her identity, what her lesbian sister's meddling meant or accomplished, how she's bound to have considered that aspect of herself when her sister came out, etc...
So, if Faye is beginning to realize she has feelings for Bubbles, where does she go now? Given Faye’s character and the way this comic usually works, I think she’s likely gonna go and talk to Marten or Dora. Dora seems more likely to me, since she has experience being bisexual (that’s a weird phrase), but I can also see Faye wanting to talk to Marten since he’s probably going to be calmer about it and get less invested in a potential relationship.It is indeed something of a weird phrase. But, deferring to someone with experience could help.
This kills the ambiguity.
Times like this, I remember the years Jeph... well, 'avoided' isn't really the right word I think..... let's say, Jeph did not commit to queer relationships. I personally added 'bury your gays' or 'hide your lesbians' or somesuch to the TVTropes page. Which, there are valid reasons not to, but I certainly was getting very tired with stories not specifically dedicated to queerness dancing around it for so many years. It was nice to see him finally go from several straight couples to some straight couples with some queer couples thrown in. To take a Goddamned stand.
Anyway, I've been looking forward to him finally ripping the bandage off on human-AI romance. He's been getting a long run-up on it, starting to feel like he was just gonna spend years dancing around it again. But looks like he might be grabbing for that bandage, finally.
As someone who, it seems, will always be sorted into society's 'Them', it is nice to see the gap bridged.
It won't happen because it's not a spectacular story, but for their sake I would prefer they hold a "So what are we?" talk.
It was my understanding that trans folks still counted as queer. Has that changed?
I suppose, beyond a general distaste for shipping, it seems to me if our author is going to turn his AIs into sexual beings then it loses the whole thing of exploring "There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." (Niven) and they become exactly like all the other characters who copulate but don't reproduce, so what's the point in having them?
If Hannelore wasn't too hoarse from screaming over latrine duty she'd be squeeing something fierce right now.
After todays comic, try stopping the shippers now. Muahahah.Faye dies of a sudden heartattack from her sister and Claire squeeing too loud behind her.
Jeph is really teasing us
It was my understanding that trans folks still counted as queer. Has that changed?
Generally they do. I don't think I understand the context of the question, though?
You had said that Jeph was actively trying to hide the queer relationships. Marten and Claire often appear together in the strips they're in.
As far as I'm concerned, Jeph can spend months on any of those issues or all of them, or decide that their relationship develops as a business relationship and friendship but not a romance, because of them. They aren't "ship tease" any more than the reasons Faye didn't eventually get together with Marten. They're the story.
As far as I'm concerned, Jeph can spend months on any of those issues or all of them, or decide that their relationship develops as a business relationship and friendship but not a romance, because of them. They aren't "ship tease" any more than the reasons Faye didn't eventually get together with Marten. They're the story.
That's the whole point. In every story, something needs to happen at some point. You can't beat the bush forever.
Oh dear. Another happy, healthy relationship on the way, and another source of drama and humour on the way out.
Do you interpret this as Faye putting two and two together and realizing that Bubbles has feelings for her or she is realizing she has feelings for Bubbles?
Do you interpret this as Faye putting two and two together and realizing that Bubbles has feelings for her or she is realizing she has feelings for Bubbles?
Do you interpret this as Faye putting two and two together and realizing that Bubbles has feelings for her or she is realizing she has feelings for Bubbles?
It was my understanding that trans folks still counted as queer. Has that changed?
You had said that Jeph was actively trying to hide the queer relationships. Marten and Claire often appear together in the strips they're in.
This kills the ambiguity.
Do you interpret this as Faye putting two and two together and realizing that Bubbles has feelings for her or she is realizing she has feelings for Bubbles?
Would be hard to realize from a back massage and from her hand running up bubbles' leg that bubbles has romantic feelings. Pretty sure she's realized hers.
Oh dear. Another happy, healthy relationship on the way, and another source of drama and humour on the way out.
As an aside though, real life is messy and complicated. I don't think Faye is a lesbian per say and that's why attraction to another woman will take a long time to process. Perhaps she is "only incidentally homosexual"
Pintsize called it...
sorta
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2263
Pintsize called it...
sorta
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2263
That comic doesn't feature Pintsize?...
...and in one second, Faye's world was turned upside down!
Faye has FINALLY hit a clue. :D
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Aaand the other shoe is down.
As an aside though, real life is messy and complicated. I don't think Faye is a lesbian per say and that's why attraction to another woman will take a long time to process. Perhaps she is "only incidentally homosexual"
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Faye has FINALLY hit a clue. :D
Yes, and if she's responding true to form (her form up to now anyway) this is the moment where she panics and runs - AGAIN - from an emotionally committed romantic relationship, fucking up her and Bubbles' business as well as personal life.
Growing closer was easy when she thought of Bubbles as a friend; adding the idea of romantic commitment has scared her away from previous relationships every time so far.
I guess my personal issues with people gossiping about / pushing for / each other's relationships get grounded here, and probably make me more sensitive to it than I have any good reasons to be. "Diminishes my perception of" is literal truth, though it reveals a streak of intolerance in myself wider than I'd like.Particlarly in your second to last paragraph, this is something I've noticed...very broadly, not just here, not just in my friend group or Tumblr or wherever, but...everywhere. Sex and relationships get particular attention. Particular emphasis. from just about everyone. It's...not something that I entirely understand, but there are many things about neurotypical behavior that I don't understand beyond acknowledging them as fact. I might try to discuss it, as a exercise in seeing how closely I'm able to interpret what I'm seeing and further my development of a more "normal" personality, though I'm not usually terribly interested in shipping, myself.
I don't think it's a problem with where the story's going though; mostly I see it as a problem with people having picked something in the future as a "destination" and now being focused on the unseen destination rather than allowing themselves to enjoy the trip.
Where they see a "ship tease" I see characters in a relationship that now includes some tension and some attraction and some denial and some doublethink and some orientation/identity issues. It's nuanced, and it's good character development, and the current situation is as much the "destination" as any other part of the trip. So why doesn't anybody seem to appreciate the current situation as a thing in itself, instead of just as a transitory state toward what they imagine some future situation might be?
Everybody could see, a year ago or so, that Corpse Witch was in need of a swift buttkick out of Faye & Bubbles' life. And just such a buttkick did eventually arrive. But I don't recall any serious obsessing about what form and shape that buttkick would take or how it was going to be delivered or by whom or even when. It wasn't a "tease", it was story development. And people were interested in all the bits of story along the way. People speculated about CW's past, about the skatepark's ownership, about what had been done to Bubbles, about whether CW was trying to get leverage over Faye, about past interactions between CW and the police, about corruption and complicity, etc etc etc, and it was all about the story as it was happening. We didn't have everybody focused on the single future buttkicking event as the only possible point of the whole story.
Now they are focused on one thing. They are focused on the development or non-development of romantic/sexual love between these characters. And everything else is getting lost, or passing them by, without any thought or discussion or, it seems to me, even perception. They are invested in particular outcomes, like romance or rejection etc, instead of being able to accept that good stories can be built around whatever outcome comes about. That's even true if the "outcome" is long-term continuation of the tension, since after all the author may be telling a DIFFERENT story using the tension for character depth to inform how these characters see someone ELSE's situation.
To me the sexual/romantic aspect of this character relationship is one topic. It's about five percent of what there is to discuss. It's in the future and a bunch of other things are in the present. When fifty percent of the discussion is used to talk about five percent of the subject matter, I get impatient and wonder why people are being so willfully blind to everything else.
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Yeah, and she could very well be bisexual and in her mid 20s and experiencing the first of many attractions to women but the fact that she seems to have no other interest in women up until now and that it took this long for her to think of all the flirting etc. something more makes me think this case is kind of one of a kind for her.
Didn't mean it to be a slam against bisexual people - sorry if it came off that way.
As an aside though, real life is messy and complicated. I don't think Faye is a lesbian per say and that's why attraction to another woman will take a long time to process. Perhaps she is "only incidentally homosexual"
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
I got the impression that the term "only incidentally homosexual" was in reference to the Kinsey Scale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale) and that Snufflebottoms meant to imply that Faye is a 1 on the scale (defined as "Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual")
Hmm, maybe my username doesn't seem so ridiculous after all.
I have never before witnessed such a tactical profile picture change
I like to imagine that the effect on Faye in panel 4 (or would that be panel 3?) is a representation of her panic causing her to vibrate so quickly that she begins humming loudly like a piece of industrial equipment. Marty offered to move outside partially out of concern for her and partially because it began disrupting nearby students.Well, whether her vibrations are audible or not, if she leaned against the shelves while shaking like that, all the books would start rattling. But I think Marten decided to step outside because she started out by yelling, and he's afraid she might do it again.
Am I the only one totally digging Marten's outfit? He looks quite spiffy.Yeah, Claire inspired him (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2850).
Aaaanndd straight to Marty! ;D Someone called it!I'm sure I wasn't the only one, but I called it. I'm kind of a real-life Marten (but without the girlfriend, which sucks), so I would have expected someone in Faye's position to come straight to me. It's actually one of the reasons my phone is always on, because my friends know they can call me 24 hours a day if they need someone to talk to.
May there always be a place in QC for our resident sympathetic ear and official Shoulder-to-cry-on... ;)
I'm a bit perplexed by the gif... Is that supposed to spell something? If so, I can't make it out.Tetris, all the pieces falling into place.
Aaaanndd straight to Marty! :-D Someone called it!That was BenRG.
Faye's about to phase out of our timeline, Flash-style.Just so long as we don't end up with a Flashpoint scenario... Pintsize must not gain thumbs without also giving up his little pranks.
So, what do people think has Faye so disconcerted?
Aaaanndd straight to Marty! :-D Someone called it!That was BenRG.
Aaaanndd straight to Marty! :-D Someone called it!That was BenRG.
If knowing what happens via Patreon and announcing it like a prediction counts as calling it, sure.
https://i.imgur.com/heXkMEo.png
https://i.imgur.com/v0iDwST.png
Aaaanndd straight to Marty! :-D Someone called it!That was BenRG.
If knowing what happens via Patreon and announcing it like a prediction counts as calling it, sure.
https://i.imgur.com/heXkMEo.png
https://i.imgur.com/v0iDwST.png
Actually, I predicted that outcome on Tuesday, before it appeared on Patreon too. Please be sure to disclose all of the evidence before throwing accusations around. Nice job putting on that screencap from Patreon without the date, BTW.
I do like Marten's new 'business attire' clothes. Does anyone else think that Claire bought him a pack of formal shirts because "libraries are serious business"?
I'm afraid that I don't have an image hosting site. However, if you go to Tuesday's Patreon comment thread, you'll see that I posted (and I quote): "The penny... or in this case the Tetris block... finally drops and the realisation hits. I've been expecting this to happen for a while: This is the point where Faye goes running to Marten to beg him for advice." That was two days ago. As you're clearly a Patreon contributor, you can see that for yourself.
I will not engage with this any further. The site admins have already been told this and have cleared my post from yesterday.
You're being a dick. I don't know why you're being a dick, but knock it off. This is supposed to be a respectful place. You've only made 4 posts so far, and you're not off to a good start.I'm afraid that I don't have an image hosting site. However, if you go to Tuesday's Patreon comment thread, you'll see that I posted (and I quote): "The penny... or in this case the Tetris block... finally drops and the realisation hits. I've been expecting this to happen for a while: This is the point where Faye goes running to Marten to beg him for advice." That was two days ago. As you're clearly a Patreon contributor, you can see that for yourself.
I will not engage with this any further. The site admins have already been told this and have cleared my post from yesterday.
The thing about that is even if it's true, it doesn't matter because by the time of your "prediction" here you already knew that what you were saying was the case. Additionally, you have the added detail of the library between then and now, as opposed to Coffee of Doom/bumping into him on the street/another location. You can call it obvious, but it shows your hand. I also doubt this is the only time you've made similar "predictions" since you were on Patreon well before I was.
(Also, literally anyone can use an image hosting site. You don't even need an account to use imgur.)
[...]
You're being a dick. I don't know why you're being a dick, but knock it off. This is supposed to be a respectful place. You've only made 4 posts so far, and you're not off to a good start.I'm afraid that I don't have an image hosting site. However, if you go to Tuesday's Patreon comment thread, you'll see that I posted (and I quote): "The penny... or in this case the Tetris block... finally drops and the realisation hits. I've been expecting this to happen for a while: This is the point where Faye goes running to Marten to beg him for advice." That was two days ago. As you're clearly a Patreon contributor, you can see that for yourself.
I will not engage with this any further. The site admins have already been told this and have cleared my post from yesterday.
The thing about that is even if it's true, it doesn't matter because by the time of your "prediction" here you already knew that what you were saying was the case. Additionally, you have the added detail of the library between then and now, as opposed to Coffee of Doom/bumping into him on the street/another location. You can call it obvious, but it shows your hand. I also doubt this is the only time you've made similar "predictions" since you were on Patreon well before I was.
(Also, literally anyone can use an image hosting site. You don't even need an account to use imgur.)
[...]
Please stop this, or stick to PMs. The staff accepted Ben's explanation on this occasion, and that's all there is to be said (but note that "clearing" his post did not mean that there was an implicit imprimatur for it).
I like to imagine that the effect on Faye in panel 4 (or would that be panel 3?) is a representation of her panic causing her to vibrate so quickly that she begins humming loudly like a piece of industrial equipment. Marty offered to move outside partially out of concern for her and partially because it began disrupting nearby students.Not to mention the danger to the structural integrity of the building.
It's your kids, Marty! Something's gotta be done about your kids!
Do you interpret this as Faye putting two and two together and realizing that Bubbles has feelings for her or she is realizing she has feelings for Bubbles?
Would be hard to realize from a back massage and from her hand running up bubbles' leg that bubbles has romantic feelings. Pretty sure she's realized hers.
Cannot disagree strongly enough with you there.
Not just because I have personal experience of it happening to me.
Also, regarding cereal: tomorrow will be Hanners eating cereal.Tilly eating Space Ham!
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Yeah, and she could very well be bisexual and in her mid 20s and experiencing the first of many attractions to women but the fact that she seems to have no other interest in women up until now and that it took this long for her to think of all the flirting etc. something more makes me think this case is kind of one of a kind for her.
Didn't mean it to be a slam against bisexual people - sorry if it came off that way.
“Bubblesexual”, but that’s not really helpful either.
So, what do people think has Faye so disconcerted?
Human/AI romances seem to be uncommon, since this is the first we've seen. Faye may be shocked at herself.
Faye has been terrible toward synthetics. Look how she treated Momo. Is it possible that she's not fully acknowledged them as equals? Was Bubbles a "Some of my best friends are" to Faye?
Or is she simply terrified of having Feelings for someone she knows is as loyal and decent as Marten is? Someone who, unlike Sven or Angus, has LTR written all over her?
She's been a model of acceptance and support to same-sex couples all along. Even someone like that could be startled and even afraid to discover same-sex longings in herself. She's done a great job overcoming her upbringing -- that doesn't necessarily mean a 100% complete job.
It's a long time coming and we've seen it slowly develop. Something which I had advocated for back when the Faybles shippers started posting their ship support in the forums. It makes it more believable for a character like Faye whom up until Tuesday hasn't had any indication of being romantically interested in the same sex. And, it's quite a relief that Jeph took this route instead of the 'I'm suddenly a lesbian' route webcomics like Spinnerette have taken in the past.
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Yeah, and she could very well be bisexual and in her mid 20s and experiencing the first of many attractions to women but the fact that she seems to have no other interest in women up until now and that it took this long for her to think of all the flirting etc. something more makes me think this case is kind of one of a kind for her.
Didn't mean it to be a slam against bisexual people - sorry if it came off that way.
Gotta say, I'm with you on this one.
Faye seems a bit... *old* for the stereotypical "awakening" of latent sexuality...
But who am *I* to say? I'm a middle aged, hetero, white, male.
I guess my problem with this is it seems very hard to relate to... for ME (YMMV) - given what we know about Faye, to have it suddenly crop up.
It's a long time coming and we've seen it slowly develop. Something which I had advocated for back when the Faybles shippers started posting their ship support in the forums. It makes it more believable for a character like Faye whom up until Tuesday hasn't had any indication of being romantically interested in the same sex. And, it's quite a relief that Jeph took this route instead of the 'I'm suddenly a lesbian' route webcomics like Spinnerette have taken in the past.
You do know that bisexuality is a thing, right?
Yeah, and she could very well be bisexual and in her mid 20s and experiencing the first of many attractions to women but the fact that she seems to have no other interest in women up until now and that it took this long for her to think of all the flirting etc. something more makes me think this case is kind of one of a kind for her.
Didn't mean it to be a slam against bisexual people - sorry if it came off that way.
Gotta say, I'm with you on this one.
Faye seems a bit... *old* for the stereotypical "awakening" of latent sexuality...
But who am *I* to say? I'm a middle aged, hetero, white, male.
I guess my problem with this is it seems very hard to relate to... for ME (YMMV) - given what we know about Faye, to have it suddenly crop up.
So... now that the cat is out of the bag, things will be resolved one way or another. But we still don't know what Faye is actually thinking...
I hadn't even considered that, and actually looking back I realized jeph gave us her Panic Frequency as the title of the strip! What do you figure the harmonic frequencies of Smif Library are?(Snip)Not to mention the danger to the structural integrity of the building.
But we still don't know what Faye is actually thinking...
As I said, I can *see* why it may have happened. It's just a little jarring in my personal experience.
(I was a pro actor for many many years. And knew, met and was very close friends with a lot of gay guys, and lesbian women. But at no point did my love for them even think of developing into anything else. (And yes, I got offers!) :) )
I hadn't even considered that, and actually looking back I realized jeph gave us her Panic Frequency as the title of the strip! What do you figure the harmonic frequencies of Smif Library are?
(IIRC, one said that she had mistaken her attraction to her then-friend-now-partner as 'merely finding her aesthetically pleasing', until the "Oh? Ohhh!"-moment. I can't speak from experience, but I find that entirely plausible)
Particlarly in your second to last paragraph, this is something I've noticed...very broadly, not just here, not just in my friend group or Tumblr or wherever, but...everywhere. Sex and relationships get particular attention. Particular emphasis. from just about everyone. It's...not something that I entirely understand, but there are many things about neurotypical behavior that I don't understand beyond acknowledging them as fact. I might try to discuss it, as a exercise in seeing how closely I'm able to interpret what I'm seeing and further my development of a more "normal" personality, though I'm not usually terribly interested in shipping, myself.(click to show/hide)
To me the sexual/romantic aspect of this character relationship is one topic. It's about five percent of what there is to discuss. It's in the future and a bunch of other things are in the present. When fifty percent of the discussion is used to talk about five percent of the subject matter, I get impatient and wonder why people are being so willfully blind to everything else.
At any rate, I guess my point is, yeah, that happens for ships instead of other kinds of plot points - like Corpse Witch's manipulations - because that's, uh, how people are, I guess, and neither you nor I are going to change how 7 billion people operate.
A = 440Hz is the basis of standard tuning (since 1939); it's also the note to which an orchestra tunes before playing.
I guess the real performance is about to start!
I hadn't noticed that either. 440Hz shouldn't be a problem, I think, but perhaps someone with a better understanding of this kind of thing will disagree?
Be kind and generous to all people, even imaginary people who only exist in a webcomic, because that’s good practice for the real world.This is the most profound thing I've read all year. Possibly all decade. Gonna hafta sig this.
Other nation's call-progress tones are in a similar pitch-range (e.g. 425Hz)
440Hz is also pretty comfortably within most humans' vocal range, which again would pose a problem for libraries that aim to bring humans into close proximity with the books therein.
I figured the "440 Hz" as the title was in reference to the note Marten was whistling in the first panel. I don't think even Tool videos had people shaking that fast.Not to mention the danger to the structural integrity of the building.I hadn't even considered that, and actually looking back I realized jeph gave us her Panic Frequency as the title of the strip! What do you figure the harmonic frequencies of Smif Library are?
I didn't want to add anything to this topic, because I figured Morituri and the others who dislike it when people get invested in romantic relationships weren't gonna change their mind, but if there's genuine lack of understanding I'm gonna add a few bits.
You know, the older I’ve gotten the more I’ve come to believe that these words we use to try to define people aren’t very useful. We invent terms like “heterosexual”, “homosexual”, “bisexual” and try to assign people to distinct categories based on those words. But those categories don’t really match up to the way the world actually works. People are attracted to whoever they are attracted to, they love whoever they love, categories be damned. And I say this as someone who actually fits pretty neatly into that “heterosexual” box, but I see many people around me who don’t fit any of those boxes. The concepts seem pretty well-defined until you start looking at the boundaries between them, and you see that those boundaries are so fuzzy that they don’t really exist. And the solution is not to invent more and more categories for each possible shade of meaning, because that just emphasizes our differences when we should be focusing on our similarities.I'm so glad to read this! It's good to know I'm not the only one who dosen't understand some peoples NEED to staple labels on other folks foreheads. I read a line somewhere that goes "The heart wants what the heart wants"
There was (still is?) a webcomic artist who was absolutely positively a lesbian, and then she went to a WebComic convention in Great Britain, met a guy who was an artist, fell in love and eventually got married. She got a lot of grief from some of the more militant members of her group, but didn't let that get to her (too much). I wish I could remember her name, but I'm old and so was the drive I had all my old bookmarks on. I think her name started with a D........It’s DAR by Erika Moen. I remember the ending from Tumblr. https://www.darcomic.com (https://www.darcomic.com)
Which actresses would do the voice of Faye and Bubbles if this was an animated series? I was thinking about this earlier and I'd like to hear some people's ideas.
It's a long time coming and we've seen it slowly develop. Something which I had advocated for back when the Faybles shippers started posting their ship support in the forums. It makes it more believable for a character like Faye whom up until Tuesday hasn't had any indication of being romantically interested in the same sex. And, it's quite a relief that Jeph took this route instead of the 'I'm suddenly a lesbian' route webcomics like Spinnerette have taken in the past.There are also people who genuinely experience their attraction changing over time. While Faye might find that Bubbles is more of an "exception" for her, it's also possible that going forward she begins to notice attraction to other women. In my experience, and in the experience of a number of others I know, it can also work that you need your moment of revelation to look back on your past thoughts and actions and be like, "Ooooohhh, I was being gay." And often others wouldn't have noticed either.
I object to the gleeful leaping-to-conclusions that ignores who the characters are. I object to the negation or deliberate defiance of the plot elements and character traits that the author has spent hard work building, so that he can tell the story of the characters struggling with these difficulties. Jumping to HAPPILY EVER AFTER! without paying attention to the story still in progress is ignoring the author's hard work.
Faye treated Momo like an object twice that I can think of. There was tossing her in the air like a toy, and there was looking up her skirt.To be fair, I didn't really see that as having anything to do with Momo being an AI, per se. Faye treated almost everyone with little regard for how she would feel if the situation were reversed. Even Raven called her on it (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=336).
Panel 4 is why I just can't warm to Faye or even care about any of her problems, shes still just a bully.
Faye treated Momo like an object twice that I can think of. There was tossing her in the air like a toy, and there was looking up her skirt.
So, playing devil's advocate for a moment, but what if Faye really shoots down the things that have happened between her and Bubbles as her body experiencing a glitch? She said it herself: She hasn't been physical with someone in a long time, and there is this strong bond of mutual trust and friendship between her and Bubbles… (Platonic) Intimacy even. Faye's body may just have short circuited and this made her act on a certain craving…
Just going through possibilities here…
Well taken point but I'd draw a distinction between being mean to someone and objectifying them.Touché.
For example, Faye ridiculed Marigold but never tried to look up her skirt.
I find it interesting when people are like, "All shipping turns into x" or even "most shippers are like y," because those interpretations are very often different from my own.
(Hey, is that a difference between organics and AIs? I can't remember a synthetic ever coming up with plausible-sounding reasons for a decision that was really something else. Pintsize doesn't even explain his decisions. Even Roko is covering up her bread fetish, not fooling herself about it).
over time, she almost forgot she was a synthetic.
I think I understand how you feel, but my feelings towards Faye have been more... ambiguous? (Sure. I'll go with ambiguous for want of a better word).
Buildings resonate around the frequencies of earthquake oscillations. Smart engineers de-tune the buildings to minimize how resonant they are.
Faye treated Momo like an object twice that I can think of. There was tossing her in the air like a toy, and there was looking up her skirt.
Panel 4 is why I just can't warm to Faye or even care about any of her problems, shes still just a bully.
I think I understand how you feel, but my feelings towards Faye have been more... ambiguous?
Hmm ok here we go, I guess I just don't understand certain things (sorry about how this comes across but it'd be easier in a bar) in this comic or indeed this message board. I see a lot of comics where female on male violence is generally treated somewhere between funny or well its bad but its not a big deal and I just have a real problem with that.
Sure violence can be funny but Fayes usually uses violence to threaten or shut down or just intimidate people and thats not funny and yet Faye seems to get a pass because she had a Traumatic Experience(TM) but her threatening, bullying behavior is still happening
Say that you think Tilly is a girl because she looks, talks, has the mannerisms, acts, dresses and has the interests of a girl and watch what happens yet someone punching other people and thats fine, apparantly
Yeah Faye has some good points but so do most abusers (my father certainly did) and I'm not sure how many years its been for Faye since her Traumatic Experience(TM) but as she says her own instinct is to punch (and Marten was already wincing in response to the blow) so for me that makes her a bully and as for Marten rwell he eminds me in certain ways of my own mother and in this instance thats not a good thing
Is it really a friendship where you have to worry about what you say because you'll get punched, no it isn't, Marten isn't Fayes friend hes her punching bag (emotionally and physically)
Imagine a human telling another human "When I look at you I don't see black". Aside from the zinger "Oh really? Have you turned in your driver's license?", it carries a whiff of implication that treating the person as an equal requires not noticing their ethnicity.Interestingly enough, that's really close to how I see my friends. Sure, intellectually, I know some of them are black, some are Asian, etc., but for all intents and purposes, when I'm talking to them, I don't see their color. I see them as my friends, and as people. It's not a question of noticing their ethnicity, but rather of focusing on it. Most of the time, a person's race is almost entirely irrelevant. When you're hanging out with someone, or going to a concert, or the monster truck rally, or whatever, what difference does it really make what color skin your friends have? And in the few situations where one of my friends' race is a relevant detail, I have enough respect for them to treat it that way.
Yeah Faye has some good points but so do most abusers (my father certainly did) and I'm not sure how many years its been for Faye since her Traumatic Experience(TM) but as she says her own instinct is to punch (and Marten was already wincing in response to the blow) so for me that makes her a bully and as for Marten rwell he eminds me in certain ways of my own mother and in this instance thats not a good thing
Is it really a friendship where you have to worry about what you say because you'll get punched, no it isn't, Marten isn't Fayes friend hes her punching bag (emotionally and physically)
She isn't bad, she's hurting and it has induced many unhealthy and antisocial behaviour patterns but she is perceptibly trying to overcome them.
She may change sure but for as long as this comic has run (not sure of how many years it is in comic book time) she lashes out physically and is still threatening people, you only have to hit some people once (and shes punched Marten more than once) for them to be intimidated and shes also not above using that reputation on others (I'm thinking Claire)
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written word yet some posters here are more concerned that some characters feelings might be hurt and seem to not care that there is someone in the cast physically assaulting people
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written word yet some posters here are more concerned that some characters feelings might be hurt and seem to not care that there is someone in the cast physically assaulting people
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written word yet some posters here are more concerned that some characters feelings might be hurt and seem to not care that there is someone in the cast physically assaulting people
I think that may be very debatable. Verbal and psychological violence and abuse can be every bit as ugly - and are much less likely to be noticed or taken seriously by others.
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written wordI respectfully disagree with you. You have a very understandable personal bias against physical abuse, and I don't want to sound like I'm trivializing that. But verbal abuse can cause just as much psychological damage, and on a much more frequent basis. And verbal abuse can go entirely unnoticed by outsiders, so it tends to go on for a much longer time span. And possibly the worst part about it is that the abuser may not even realize that they are doing it unless someone points it out. I know a father whose 8-year-old son looked at him and said "Dad, you scare me." He was floored. He had no idea the effect he was having on his children up until then.
Okay, Chris? Let's set aside all of the strawmen here and get down to cases:
1) This is about Marten, not me, not you and not anyone else;
2) Marten clearly didn't feel abused because, even if he wouldn't have responded, his various girlfriends certainly would have - Definitely Dora;
3) The fact that nothing ever came of it indicates that Faye's behaviour was never as threatening or as abusive as you perceive it to be.
End of story.
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written wordI respectfully disagree with you. You have a very understandable personal bias against physical abuse, and I don't want to sound like I'm trivializing that. But verbal abuse can cause just as much psychological damage, and on a much more frequent basis. And verbal abuse can go entirely unnoticed by outsiders, so it tends to go on for a much longer time span. And possibly the worst part about it is that the abuser may not even realize that they are doing it unless someone points it out. I know a father whose 8-year-old son looked at him and said "Dad, you scare me." He was floored. He had no idea the effect he was having on his children up until then.
Don't get me wrong, I also think that some people are way too sensitive about certain subjects, but that has nothing to do with any kind of abuse.
That notwithstanding, I agree with you that Faye's treatment of Marten is infuriating. Sure, she has issues, but even she herself admitted that those are no excuse for behaving the way she does. She calls him her best friend, and yet routinely treated him worse than the bastard offspring of the neighbor's half-breed mutt. I am kind of a real-life Marten - I'll go out of my way to help people that others won't give the time of day - but there's no way in hell I would have put up with her hitting me more than once. Granted, I am bigger and stronger than Marten, so I could actually stop her if she swung at me. But even without the wherewithal to physically defend himself, Marten could still have given her a simple ultimatum - either knock it off, or find a new home.
If you had to choose between being physically abused or verbally abused and the physical abuse went on for as long as the verbal abuse what would you choose?
...Fair enough, we all have our trigger points. After reading your post it just occurred that maybe whats bothering is the minimization of Fayes actions towards to Marten, has he ever actually told her to not hit him?
That and when Faye started intimidating Claire (the bit about marking her territory and the hair in the shower) and Marten didn't say anything, didn't step into protect Claire or anything, that really bugged me
As I said, I can *see* why it may have happened. It's just a little jarring in my personal experience.
(I was a pro actor for many many years. And knew, met and was very close friends with a lot of gay guys, and lesbian women. But at no point did my love for them even think of developing into anything else. (And yes, I got offers!) :) )
Well ... your finding the experience of discovering that you're not as straight as you thought you were to be outside your experience is pretty much par for the course for someone who is exactly as straight as he thought he was, no? :-D
Shortly before Jeph cliff-hangered the Faybles-arc, when we were all getting in each others' hairs about the nature of Faye's feelings for Bubbles, the matter of Faye's age came up, too, and there were two fellow forumites who said that this was pretty much their experience of discovering they weren't done learning about their orientation ...
(IIRC, one said that she had mistaken her attraction to her then-friend-now-partner as 'merely finding her aesthetically pleasing', until the "Oh? Ohhh!"-moment. I can't speak from experience, but I find that entirely plausible)
I'm so glad to read this! It's good to know I'm not the only one who dosen't understand some peoples NEED to staple labels on other folks foreheads. I read a line somewhere that goes "The heart wants what the heart wants"
which pretty much sums my feelings on this. There was (still is?) a webcomic artist who was absolutely positively a lesbian, and then she went to a WebComic convention in Great Britain, met a guy who was an artist, fell in love and eventually got married. She got a lot of grief from some of the more militant members of her group, but didn't let that get to her (too much). I wish I could remember her name, but I'm old and so was the drive I had all my old bookmarks on. I think her name started with a D........
Interestingly enough, that's really close to how I see my friends. Sure, intellectually, I know some of them are black, some are Asian, etc., but for all intents and purposes, when I'm talking to them, I don't see their color. I see them as my friends, and as people. It's not a question of noticing their ethnicity, but rather of focusing on it. Most of the time, a person's race is almost entirely irrelevant. When you're hanging out with someone, or going to a concert, or the monster truck rally, or whatever, what difference does it really make what color skin your friends have? And in the few situations where one of my friends' race is a relevant detail, I have enough respect for them to treat it that way. I feel like many AIs would love it if humans would occasionally forget that they are different, and simply treat them as ordinary people.
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written word yet some posters here are more concerned that some characters feelings might be hurt and seem to not care that there is someone in the cast physically assaulting people
Thats the damn problem, she is abusive, physically abusive and no one calls her out on it, ever and shes never had to face up to the repercussions of her violence
Maybe if there was a storyline where she addresses her violence and understands what that violence does to others I might start to think of her differently but at the moment she lives a life where she can punch anyone she likes, threaten anyone she likes and generally be intimidating to whoever she likes and everything's hunky dory
So, playing devil's advocate for a moment, but what if Faye really shoots down the things that have happened between her and Bubbles as her body experiencing a glitch? She said it herself: She hasn't been physical with someone in a long time, and there is this strong bond of mutual trust and friendship between her and Bubbles… (Platonic) Intimacy even. Faye's body may just have short circuited and this made her act on a certain craving…
Just going through possibilities here…
I think she could have rationalized that way earlier on. At this point there are too many Tetris pieces for even Faye to ignore and they've fallen into place. No, she's stuck with this, even with a human's capability to rationalize things.
You know, the older I’ve gotten the more I’ve come to believe that these words we use to try to define people aren’t very useful. We invent terms like “heterosexual”, “homosexual”, “bisexual” and try to assign people to distinct categories based on those words. But those categories don’t really match up to the way the world actually works. People are attracted to whoever they are attracted to, they love whoever they love, categories be damned. And I say this as someone who actually fits pretty neatly into that “heterosexual” box, but I see many people around me who don’t fit any of those boxes. The concepts seem pretty well-defined until you start looking at the boundaries between them, and you see that those boundaries are so fuzzy that they don’t really exist. And the solution is not to invent more and more categories for each possible shade of meaning, because that just emphasizes our differences when we should be focusing on our similarities.I'm so glad to read this! It's good to know I'm not the only one who dosen't understand some peoples NEED to staple labels on other folks foreheads. I read a line somewhere that goes "The heart wants what the heart wants"
which pretty much sums my feelings on this. There was (still is?) a webcomic artist who was absolutely positively a lesbian, and then she went to a WebComic convention in Great Britain, met a guy who was an artist, fell in love and eventually got married. She got a lot of grief from some of the more militant members of her group, but didn't let that get to her (too much). I wish I could remember her name, but I'm old and so was the drive I had all my old bookmarks on. I think her name started with a D........
2) Marten clearly didn't feel abused because, even if he wouldn't have responded, his various girlfriends certainly would have - Definitely Dora;
3) The fact that nothing ever came of it indicates that Faye's behaviour was never as threatening or as abusive as you perceive it to be.
End of story.
Physical violence is worse than any spoken or written word yet some posters here are more concerned that some characters feelings might be hurt and seem to not care that there is someone in the cast physically assaulting people
I think that may be very debatable. Verbal and psychological violence and abuse can be every bit as ugly - and are much less likely to be noticed or taken seriously by others.
If you had to choose between being physically abused or verbally abused and the physical abuse went on for as long as the verbal abuse what would you choose?
2) Marten clearly didn't feel abused because, even if he wouldn't have responded, his various girlfriends certainly would have - Definitely Dora;
3) The fact that nothing ever came of it indicates that Faye's behaviour was never as threatening or as abusive as you perceive it to be.
End of story.
2) Marten DID respond; he flinched. As noted by someone else here, that's one of the signs of emotional trauma to repeated and expected physical abuse.
3) It's not perceived to be as threatening, because it's done by a woman, and therefore, according to the SJW enforced gender constructs, can't be threatening. Something is only seen as bad or socially unacceptable when society tells you it's bad or socially unacceptable. In other words, that idea that women can't be abusive or threatening is a social construct.
Woman hits man: Oh he must have done something to deserve it.
Man hits woman: How dare you ask if she did anything to deserve it, that's victim-blaming!
2) Marten DID respond; he flinched. As noted by someone else here, that's one of the signs of emotional trauma to repeated and expected physical abuse.
3) It's not perceived to be as threatening, because it's done by a woman, and therefore, according to the SJW enforced gender constructs, can't be threatening. Something is only seen as bad or socially unacceptable when society tells you it's bad or socially unacceptable. In other words, that idea that women can't be abusive or threatening is a social construct.
Woman hits man: Oh he must have done something to deserve it.
Man hits woman: How dare you ask if she did anything to deserve it, that's victim-blaming!
Okay, Chris? Let's set aside all of the strawmen here and get down to cases:
1) This is about Marten, not me, not you and not anyone else;
2) Marten clearly didn't feel abused because, even if he wouldn't have responded, his various girlfriends certainly would have - Definitely Dora;
3) The fact that nothing ever came of it indicates that Faye's behaviour was never as threatening or as abusive as you perceive it to be.
End of story.
Thats the damn problem, she is abusive, physically abusive and no one calls her out on it, ever and shes never had to face up to the repercussions of her violence
Maybe if there was a storyline where she addresses her violence and understands what that violence does to others I might start to think of her differently but at the moment she lives a life where she can punch anyone she likes, threaten anyone she likes and generally be intimidating to whoever she likes and everything's hunky dory
Okay, Chris? Let's set aside all of the strawmen here and get down to cases:
1) This is about Marten, not me, not you and not anyone else;
2) Marten clearly didn't feel abused because, even if he wouldn't have responded, his various girlfriends certainly would have - Definitely Dora;
3) The fact that nothing ever came of it indicates that Faye's behaviour was never as threatening or as abusive as you perceive it to be.
End of story.
Thats the damn problem, she is abusive, physically abusive and no one calls her out on it, ever and shes never had to face up to the repercussions of her violence
Maybe if there was a storyline where she addresses her violence and understands what that violence does to others I might start to think of her differently but at the moment she lives a life where she can punch anyone she likes, threaten anyone she likes and generally be intimidating to whoever she likes and everything's hunky dory
Agreed, but the advantage of possibly being in a relationship with Bubbles is she’s probably the only person she can’t intimidate with violence and even she admits as much.
You know, I think that some of you must be reading a different strip to me. She didn't 'bully' or 'intimidate' Claire. She made it abundantly clear that she expected Claire to be more considerate of her room-mates in future. Mostly because seeing a 'red tarantula' in the bath scared her out of her wits.
It was 2930 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2930), and Marten did object to it.
Interesting response. I didn’t say what color my skin is, and yet you seem to assume that I’m white. So, do I understand you correctly? You think that it’s a bad thing that I don’t make an issue out of the color of my friends’ skin? Even though they appreciate that from me, when so many other people do make an issue of it? It seems to me that if more people would adopt a colorblind attitude, the world would be a better place.Interestingly enough, that's really close to how I see my friends. Sure, intellectually, I know some of them are black, some are Asian, etc., but for all intents and purposes, when I'm talking to them, I don't see their color. I see them as my friends, and as people. It's not a question of noticing their ethnicity, but rather of focusing on it. Most of the time, a person's race is almost entirely irrelevant. When you're hanging out with someone, or going to a concert, or the monster truck rally, or whatever, what difference does it really make what color skin your friends have? And in the few situations where one of my friends' race is a relevant detail, I have enough respect for them to treat it that way. I feel like many AIs would love it if humans would occasionally forget that they are different, and simply treat them as ordinary people.
This, unfortunately, is white privilege in action. It's great to have a colourblind attitude towards life in principle, but the world is simply not yet a good enough place for that to be something we can all rely on, because that same colourblind attitude is also part of what props up the establishment.
Taken completely out of context - Claire was being rude to Faye. Did Faye hit her? Beat her bloody? No, she told her that she won't let her relationship with Marten let her disrespect her and her art.
FWIW, at the time, it was my impression that Claire was the one initiating the conflict.
He's visibly unhappy. And he may not have used those exact words, but actually, yes, that's pretty much what he did say.It was 2930 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2930), and Marten did object to it.
Its not quite "please don't threaten my girlfriend" is it
It was 2930 (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2930), and Marten did object to it.
I'm really getting the impression that this is personal for you. Very personal. But we won't go there as it is mostly irrelevant.
It's pretty clear to me that you and I see totally different things in the same strips and it is pointless debating when the other person isn't even in the same reality as you.
Happy to admit I have no idea what race you are, but part of the issue of writing on this forum is that I often don't write down everything I am thinking, and so I missed out - your personal race was not actually relevant to my point, and I definitely shouldn't have said white privilege specifically.Interesting response. I didn’t say what color my skin is, and yet you seem to assume that I’m white. So, do I understand you correctly? You think that it’s a bad thing that I don’t make an issue out of the color of my friends’ skin? Even though they appreciate that from me, when so many other people do make an issue of it? It seems to me that if more people would adopt a colorblind attitude, the world would be a better place.Interestingly enough, that's really close to how I see my friends. Sure, intellectually, I know some of them are black, some are Asian, etc., but for all intents and purposes, when I'm talking to them, I don't see their color. I see them as my friends, and as people. It's not a question of noticing their ethnicity, but rather of focusing on it. Most of the time, a person's race is almost entirely irrelevant. When you're hanging out with someone, or going to a concert, or the monster truck rally, or whatever, what difference does it really make what color skin your friends have? And in the few situations where one of my friends' race is a relevant detail, I have enough respect for them to treat it that way. I feel like many AIs would love it if humans would occasionally forget that they are different, and simply treat them as ordinary people.
This, unfortunately, is white privilege in action. It's great to have a colourblind attitude towards life in principle, but the world is simply not yet a good enough place for that to be something we can all rely on, because that same colourblind attitude is also part of what props up the establishment.
I just noticed in the archive that Claire has probably been shipping Faye & Bubbles too.That's a comforting sign that she has learned from the mistakes she made with her brother.
THANK GOD she resisted the urge to push.
I just came in here to say exactly that - including the part how some people's friendship is different, has different boundaries, and yes, might include the occasional punch. And no, not just ladies hitting gentlemen, and not always does the other person hit back. And sometimes it leaves a bruise. And yet, those friendships are loving, supportive and nobody considers themselves abused or forces to do something they didn't want to do.Faye needs a better vocabulary for talking about her feelings, better negotiating tactics, more willingness to respect others' boundaries.... but I don't see any support for the idea that she's a 'bully' or a 'thug' or any serious kind of 'abuser.'(click to show/hide)
And yet, those friendships are loving, supportive and nobody considers themselves abused or forces to do something they didn't want to do.
Faye needs a better vocabulary for talking about her feelings, better negotiating tactics, more willingness to respect others' boundaries.... but I don't see any support for the idea that she's a 'bully' or a 'thug' or any serious kind of 'abuser.'
The only times I have ever seen "SJWs" resistant to arguments about violence against men by women, it has been when those arguments were raised as an objection to arguments about intimate partner violence against women. As though the existence of violence against men negates the problem of violence against women. It is a rejection of the "whataboutism" used to diminish the significance of an issue.
And society's failure to recognize intimate partner violence against men as a problem is not rooted in feminism or the broader social justice movement.
That idea falls under "toxic masculinity" that the modern social justice movement seeks to end.
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...
Nope. I'm done.
3) It's not perceived to be as threatening, because it's done by a woman, and therefore, according to the SJW enforced gender constructs, can't be threatening. Something is only seen as bad or socially unacceptable when society tells you it's bad or socially unacceptable. In other words, that idea that women can't be abusive or threatening is a social construct.
Woman hits man: Oh he must have done something to deserve it.
Man hits woman: How dare you ask if she did anything to deserve it, that's victim-blaming!
Faye isn't even going that far. Has Faye ever actually injured someone in this comic? I can't recall a single time. In the absence of any indication that anyone has ever been actually physically hurt by her, I don't think I can take her so-called violence as an indication that she's physically abusive.
For the record, she bruised Marten repeatedly. I think I recall twice he remarked (maybe joking, maybe not) that he thought his arm was broken, and once he thought he might have a concussion. She also put a huge bruise on Hannerelore's arm because she was drunk and didn't know who she was hitting (it was meant for Marten's Dad). She gave Raven a full body flip in retaliation for tickling, and got in a fight with Penny at CoD. And she threw Angus across the barroom just for talking to her. None of those were what I would call "badly provoked".
She beat Clinton up with his own hand once, but he deserved that.
There may be other instances I don't remember right now, but I don't have time to look for them this morning - I'm meeting family for breakfast.
...AND she knocked out Marten that time he was being drunk and highly unpleasant - I can't remember the strip, but I can remember the follow-up, where Faye blames his injury on "OWLS"... ;DGood memory. That one had slipped my mind earlier.
Edit: Found it! Number 1818.
Question, without going into the morality or nature of those instances (and once you have finished breakfast, naturally), how many were recent and how many were back in the days of cartoon logic applying more (e.g. vespa-avenger, random monks, Scorn being capable of physically hurling a body through space etc.)?I'll just make a list, but it'll take a little while.
[...]
Again, that's a question I want to ask neutrally- I don't mean to defend her violence, I'm just curious about how it has developed alongside the changing tone of the comic.
I'll just make a list, but it'll take a little while.
(Snip)
So if we do that, how do you view Faye (a Mini Poll)?
a) Faye's behaviour has been inexcusable and irredeemable.
b) Faye's behaviour has been terrible, but perhaps forgivable (if not excusable) given her past.
c) Faye's behaviour has been terrible, but she is actively working on improving, and if she succeeds, then she will be (more) likable.
d) Faye's behaviour is just a part of her friendship dynamic, and is not as bad as everyone is making out.
e) A little bit from each of ?, ?, ....
f) Something else (specify).
And how do you feel about Marten's friendship with Faye?
1) Marten should have abandoned her long ago.
2) Marten deserves better, and hopefully things are improving.
3) Marten gets credit for seeing past her bad behaviour - Faye wouldn't be where she is now without him.
4) Marten is fine, they've always had a terrific friendship. And what close friendship hasn't had the odd rocky moment?
5) Something else (specify).
(/Snip)
I don't think Faye has ever left so much as a bruise on anybody.
The problem with taking all of her actions as character defining is that it leads to dissonance. Because if, without context, someone was described as having done all the things Faye has done, then I'd feel they were a B at the very least- her violence is repetitive, generally remorseless and unprovoked. But that is completely at odds with how she is portrayed outside of that- in most of her appearances we do seem to be expected to see her, narratively, as sympathetic. Similarly Marten, if he were a real-life victim of Faye's abuse owes her nothing and is a firm 2 or even a 1. But again, all their other interactions show a genuine, healthy friendship that we seem to be expected to take as being authentic.
I think Jeph (now) is too good of a story teller and a designer of characters to make a mistake about this; to create a relationship and characters that are fundamentally unrealistic. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, there must be some background reason behind that being the case here. So for me, drawing a distinction between Faye as a character and her extreme violence as slapstick is the only way to resolve the confusion. It's a stylistic choice that has changed as the comic has changed, and the extreme violence is an artefact of that, not a aspect of Faye's "serious" character.
There's a strip I don't have the number for where Marten mentions an ice pack in the freezer dedicated to treating injuries from Faye.
The time she knocked Marten unconscious was arguably self-defense although people at the time pointed out that anyone that drunk could have been put on the ground with her little finger.
There's a strip I don't have the number for where Marten mentions an ice pack in the freezer dedicated to treating injuries from Faye.That was 1681 (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1681)
Along the same lines, this could have been simply a joke at Faye's expense.I'm inclined to think Marten meant it. I'm barely 10% through the archives, and I've already seen Faye punch Marten four times (once he thought his arm was broken, and once he thought he might have a concussion), punched Dora once, knocked out Agent Turing (yeah, that needed to be done to save Pintsize, but still...), and body-flipped Raven. Plus done a fair amount of threatening to several people. So at that point at least, Fayemergencies are a fairly regular occurrence. (There's also stuff with Pintsize and some of his friends, but they deserved it.)
Amen. Bubbles has baggage from hell but a track record of working to overcome it. Bubbles will be loyal to the extent Marten is or even more. Faye, this is a great partner for you.
Along the same lines, this could have been simply a joke at Faye's expense.I'm inclined to think Marten meant it. I'm barely 10% through the archives, and I've already seen Faye punch Marten four times (once he thought his arm was broken, and once he thought he might have a concussion), punched Dora once, knocked out Agent Turing (yeah, that needed to be done to save Pintsize, but still...), and body-flipped Raven. Plus done a fair amount of threatening to several people. So at that point at least, Fayemergencies are a fairly regular occurrence. (There's also stuff with Pintsize and some of his friends, but they deserved it.)
On the eternal abuse side, there's more than one way to take her treatment of Pintsize. What does it mean ethically to hit someone who doesn't feel pain and can have dents just popped out?
Question, without going into the morality or nature of those instances (and once you have finished breakfast, naturally), how many were recent and how many were back in the days of cartoon logic applying more (e.g. vespa-avenger, random monks, Scorn being capable of physically hurling a body through space etc.)?
Without excusing abusive behaviour, it does seem that Faye as a character gets caught out by the tone of the comic having shifted over 3000 strips, and that behaviour that at one point, while not exactly acceptable, was not as consequential as it would be now. Pintsize is another example of this (who seems to get a free pass more often than not), as his earlier behaviour might often be seen to step over a line he's now more careful about. But Faye's violence, it is true, still gets bought up in-comic as part of her character, so it's reasonable to consider her in relation to it. How much of her violence is recent?
Again, that's a question I want to ask neutrally- I don't mean to defend her violence, I'm just curious about how it has developed alongside the changing tone of the comic.
On the eternal abuse side, there's more than one way to take her treatment of Pintsize. What does it mean ethically to hit someone who doesn't feel pain and can have dents just popped out?
In general? Depend a lot on the context of the hitting, and how it was taken by the one who is hit. Even if it didn't cause physical damage, it could still be a component of emotional abuse, for example.
(I do not feel able to say whether Faye's treatment of Pintsize falls under abuse or not.)
...AND she knocked out Marten that time he was being drunk and highly unpleasant - I can't remember the strip, but I can remember the follow-up, where Faye blames his injury on "OWLS"... :-D
Edit: Found it! Number 1818.
Amen. Bubbles has baggage from hell but a track record of working to overcome it. Bubbles will be loyal to the extent Marten is or even more. Faye, this is a great partner for you.
A great partner is all well and good, but you can't rely on another person to fix your problems.
Faye and Bubbles both deserve happiness, but given Faye's track record with relationships and how she deals with major changes in her life (or rather, how she failed to deal with them), kinda leaves me in the camp of "Its going to be one hell of a rocky road" for any Faye and Bubbles relationship.
<snip>
3) It's not perceived to be as threatening, because it's done by a woman, and therefore, according to the SJW enforced gender constructs, can't be threatening.
Historical sources and their analysis in academic literature establish that intimate violence has been a cause for concern stemming from at least England’s medieval times. While men-as-perpetrators of violence on wives or female partners could be prosecuted or subject to public exposure, ironically men-as-victims of their wives’ violence were subject to punishment. This punishment took several forms, one of which was a form of public exposure known as a “Skimmington” procession: a public humiliation derived from Charivari rituals widespread in early Europe. The history of Skimmington is reviewed and inferences drawn.
Skimmington Revisited (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.3149/jms.1002.111)
This is a legitimate thing to raise, however; Jeph was a lot less 'woke' for lack of a better term in the early days, and so Faye's early period of physical violence is something that's kind of been retconned a little into the outward expression of someone who's been through abuse. Or Jeph has used that as a Trojan horse to reel people into her story, I don't know. But this comic is the first time I've even seen her violent tendencies mentioned in a little while.
OK, here we go...That's really good of you. Just a general idea would be good- my bias is towards the majority being early in the comc's run, but I don't want to make assumptions.Question, without going into the morality or nature of those instances (and once you have finished breakfast, naturally), how many were recent and how many were back in the days of cartoon logic applying more (e.g. vespa-avenger, random monks, Scorn being capable of physically hurling a body through space etc.)?I'll just make a list, but it'll take a little while.
[...]
Again, that's a question I want to ask neutrally- I don't mean to defend her violence, I'm just curious about how it has developed alongside the changing tone of the comic.
I don't think for a moment that the difference in tone makes the depictions of violence easier to see, but in discussing Faye's underlying character and the extent to which she is a bully rather than a source of slapstick it would be useful.
That is a mightily impressive list. Well done.Somehow I missed getting that one on there. I remember seeing it.
I've got another for you.
* Faye says she punched Sven in the dick after he made a 69 joke. - 1641 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1641)