Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2018, 18:43

Title: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2018, 18:43
Bubbles might think she needs to wait for Faye to act, which could take quite a while.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Wagimawr on 16 Jun 2018, 18:48
honestly expected this to be a fayelovesbubbles thread
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Neko_Ali on 16 Jun 2018, 19:34
Isn't seriously early to be asking that question?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: jwhouk on 16 Jun 2018, 19:49
Cart <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Horse
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 16 Jun 2018, 19:52
honestly expected this to be a fayelovesbubbles thread

Hey! I ship them but I’m a realist, dammit. They JUST got together.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Jun 2018, 20:10
Quote
"I would never leave unless you asked me to."
"I would never ask you to."

They have made a commitment, more so than any other unmarried couple in the strip. Bubbles used the word "irrevocably" to describe the change in their lives. They have declared it permanent.

It's not how long a couple has been together, it's how far they've moved in that time. A Marten/Claire or Dora/Tai marriage, that would be premature, even though they have had much more calendar time.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 16 Jun 2018, 20:50
I can’t believe I of all people am saying this...but...I think talking about marriage is jumping the gun just a touch.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 16 Jun 2018, 21:19
Also, who’s to say Faye won’t propose?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: zisraelsen on 16 Jun 2018, 21:23
This feels like the flipside of the coin to the "What happens when Faye dies?" discussion that was happening in the comics thread a couple weeks ago. Way too early to even consider it, though admittedly this is the happier of the two questions to ask.

Though if we want to talk about it anyway just for kicks, my vote is that she'd just list to Faye why it would be advantageous for them to be married, which would prompt Faye to be like "Are you proposing to me right now?" which would then prompt much  venting (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3669) from Bubbs.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Tova on 16 Jun 2018, 21:25
This could be the most surprised I've ever felt in these forums. How about that?

They've just made a commitment to each other, so why would they even feel compelled to dive immediately into marriage? Do they even believe in the relevance of marriage?

I'm fairly sure that they are aware that their emotional commitment to each other doesn't guarantee a lifetime of happiness together. Even Faye said, "It's early days, but we're a couple." There's nothing wrong with this. They're going to be taking things one day at a time. There are so many things for them to work out as they settle into the relationship, and I'm looking forward to watching them unfold. Both of them still have ongoing issues they're wrestling with, and they will be working together as well as living together. Faye will want to break this to her mother and hopefully win her approval. And of course, neither of them have experience of this kind of relationship before. This is just off the top of my head.

And then beyond all that, as fayelovesbubbles said, the idea that Faye wouldn't propose first is speculative at best.

But really, there's no rush. They have their lives ahead of them. I think it behooves them to take it nice and steady.

We should do the same. There are so many aspects of this new relationship we could be discussing. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: BenRG on 17 Jun 2018, 00:34
I've got to say that, if anyone asks the question, it will be Faye. Stammering, uncertain and making it sound like a list of reasons why Bubbles should say 'no' and run a mile in the general direction of 'away'. She'll be shocked when Bubbles says 'yes'.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Pennepasta on 17 Jun 2018, 01:58
Quote
"I would never leave unless you asked me to."
"I would never ask you to."

They have made a commitment, more so than any other unmarried couple in the strip. Bubbles used the word "irrevocably" to describe the change in their lives. They have declared it permanent.

It's not how long a couple has been together, it's how far they've moved in that time. A Marten/Claire or Dora/Tai marriage, that would be premature, even though they have had much more calendar time.

I'd say that they've changed irrevocably anyway, even if this relationship doesn't last. Partly because Bubbles has been opened up to a relationship being possible (goals moved away from contentment); partly because Faye has been opened up to new relationships in general, and partly because any partner will have an irrevocable impact on the other person's life. Sure, they made a big commitment, but the current commitment level seems fine to them without marriage for now. Lots of reasons why people might not get married, one of the relevant ones being that we don't know the legal status of such a marriage; another being that they may not actually want it. We shall see.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Zebediah on 17 Jun 2018, 06:35
Whenever it does happen they will elope, to avoid all the hoopla. They might grab Marten and Claire to serve as witnesses, but nobody else will know until it’s a done deal. And Dora will again miss her chance at being a flower girl.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jun 2018, 07:46
I can see only one way for Bubbles to not propose and still stay in character.

That would be if she's afraid of making Faye uncomfortable. Faye is already out of her comfort zone but it's conceivable that Bubbles would give Faye a chance to reach a new equilibrium before popping the question. I've known a person with a Bubbles personality in real life, who didn't propose on the assumption the other party wasn't interested. (The other party proposed and it has lasted).

Unless that happens, we know Bubbles is the type to pull out all the stops, and I think we've seen a need for someone to be loyal to for a lifetime.

Faye proposing would be out of character or at least a head-spinning bit of character growth. EDIT: Oh, wait, I can totally see this. It could even be an echo of the first four episodes of the strip! Bubbles could stammer, talk around the issue, and then straight to "Faye Cuts to the Chase".
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: questionablydiscontent on 17 Jun 2018, 10:06
I wish I could vote for both C and D, since I do think Bubbles will be pretty nervous. But I think she'll get the words out. She will definitely be on one knee, though.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: SpanielBear on 17 Jun 2018, 11:33
I can see only one way for Bubbles to not propose and still stay in character.

That would be if she's afraid of making Faye uncomfortable. Faye is already out of her comfort zone but it's conceivable that Bubbles would give Faye a chance to reach a new equilibrium before popping the question. I've known a person with a Bubbles personality in real life, who didn't propose on the assumption the other party wasn't interested. (The other party proposed and it has lasted).

Unless that happens, we know Bubbles is the type to pull out all the stops, and I think we've seen a need for someone to be loyal to for a lifetime.

Faye proposing would be out of character or at least a head-spinning bit of character growth. EDIT: Oh, wait, I can totally see this. It could even be an echo of the first four episodes of the strip! Bubbles could stammer, talk around the issue, and then straight to "Faye Cuts to the Chase".

Bubbles absolutely would propose.

Bubbles absolutely would not propose the day after the relationship started.

Relationships are hard. They're hard if both parties are utterly healthy with no deep-seated anxieties about intimacy and trust. Both Bubbles and Faye are clear-eyed about their own need for stability and to adapt. They will not do anything that would sabotage their relationship with the other. They want this to work. They want their partner to be happy and comfortable with the steps they are taking.

I will be blissfully overjoyed when this couple makes their commitment public and binding in front of the world, and invites those people closest to them to celebrate that commitment. It will, without a doubt, be beautiful.

But it will not be quick.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Jun 2018, 12:22
I want to move this in a different direction for a moment.  I agree that both of them know it's early days.  I'm not sure that the level of commitment they've expressed is any lower than that of a marriage, actually.  The use of the word "never" (one that my wife and I have learned to use sparingly in our relationship of 34 yeaars) is probably what makes me feel this way, but nevertheless...

Here's my concern; Faye is (only) human.  Yes, Bubbles - and other AI's in the story - has shown growth and change, but there's a level of steadfastness and devotion that I think may be beyond human.  Her military commitment, and the roles other AI's take on - companions for life - indicates something that I think humans can only aspire to. 

True, the companionship commitments can be broken, mutually, but why?  I imagine the human would be more likely outgrow the arrangement, not the AI.  And if the human no longer needs or wants the companion, who cares for them, then why would the AI say no?  It seems a subtle coercion. 
And I fear the same for Faybles.  Bubbles would never keep Faye in a relationship she doesn't want anymore - she loves Faye too much to do such a thing.  Nor would she play the bitter ex girlfriend, no matter how she really felt - she's too experienced at burying such things. 

It would certainly send her back into her armor, if nothing else. 

Would she ever be able to open up again?  Maybe, but it would take an effort comparable to the one Faye put forth.  And not a lot of people have that level of commitment.  Which brings us full circle - Faye's ability to commit may be almost at Bubbles' level.  So maybe there's nothing to worry about. 

Which never stopped me from worrying before...

 :psyduck:
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Morituri on 17 Jun 2018, 12:57
Objection.  The question presupposes facts not in evidence.

Wait for the author to tell the story.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 17 Jun 2018, 13:03
When has that ever slowed any of us down? 
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: A small perverse otter on 17 Jun 2018, 13:28
There's an ineluctable difference between talking about what will happen when Faye dies and how Bubbles will propose. Faye will die. Bubbles might propose.

We cannot talk with certainty about the former, as it is certain. We can talk with certainty about the later, because it is not.  (The manner in which Bubbles proposes if she does not propose is whatever manner we would like to conjecture, as any conclusion follows from a false hypothesis. What happens after Faye dies? Well, since there is a day when Faye dies... Math doesn't make sense: every blue house you see provides evidence that all ravens are black, too.)
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: zisraelsen on 17 Jun 2018, 13:51
Both situations follow from the assumption that the relationship will last long enough that they will become relevant, which is an unreasonable assumption at hour zero.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jun 2018, 18:03
we don't know the legal status of such a marriage

There might be an utterly fascinating story there, though not the kind Jeph likes to tell on screen. Imagine Faye and Bubbles breaking ground in a case like Loving v. Virginia!
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 17 Jun 2018, 20:21
I kinda want to see Faye stammer, “B-bubs, I...uh...will you...marry me?”

I think it’s likely that one of them will propose. This is probably going to be the most satisfying and fulfilling relationship Faye has ever had.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jun 2018, 20:50
By far.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 18 Jun 2018, 03:35
I think it’s likely that one of them will propose. This is probably going to be the most satisfying and fulfilling relationship Faye has ever had.

I think, Bubbles is now prone to Fayelure.
This will be the most unsassiest Faye will ever be. I just hope the comic will rather retire than these two break up in a bad way.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 18 Jun 2018, 03:58
I do think the two of them getting together is a sign that Jeph is wrapping up the story. He still has to take care of the Brun/Clinton thing. I am emotionally invested in that outcome, I want them to be together.

And I think Elliot will find someone right for him too. He apparently needs to learn something, but Jeph hasn't made it clear what that is yet.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: dutchrvl on 18 Jun 2018, 05:34
I do think the two of them getting together is a sign that Jeph is wrapping up the story. He still has to take care of the Brun/Clinton thing. I am emotionally invested in that outcome, I want them to be together.

And I think Elliot will find someone right for him too. He apparently needs to learn something, but Jeph hasn't made it clear what that is yet.

Wrapping up QC as a whole you mean? I certainly hope not as I think there is still a lot that could be further explored, like Marten's career, Union Chassis Repair, Human-AI interactions and AI development, etc. (plus, I would terribly miss the comic...).

It does seem like JJ is slowly but certainly moving away from (the search for) relationship-based drama/conflict and moving forward to storylines related to other aspects of the characters' lives. Which is fine by me to be honest.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Undrneath on 18 Jun 2018, 05:53
I feel like the evolution of the focus of QC is very indicative of the phase of life Jeph is experiencing. As his life has evolved so has the lives of the characters. All that is perfectly natural.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: dutchrvl on 18 Jun 2018, 06:24
I feel like the evolution of the focus of QC is very indicative of the phase of life Jeph is experiencing. As his life has evolved so has the lives of the characters. All that is perfectly natural.

HA! I initially wanted to add to my post that it felt like JJ getting older and moving away from relationshippy stuff in his life may be reflected by QCs direction, but didn't...Glad you brought it up now. Yes I agree with your assertion completely. I feel we saw a similar development a long time ago when QC started to move away from the abundant Indie culture-references, which have been pretty much nonexistent for years now.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Jun 2018, 12:49
I do think the two of them getting together is a sign that Jeph is wrapping up the story. He still has to take care of the Brun/Clinton thing. I am emotionally invested in that outcome, I want them to be together.

And I think Elliot will find someone right for him too. He apparently needs to learn something, but Jeph hasn't made it clear what that is yet.

Judging by Elliot's reaction to both Brun and Clinton, he has a good bit to sort through. 

Then again, we may be looking at a polyamorous storyline at some point...
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2018, 14:47
As far as the "when" goes as opposed to the "how", it won't be tomorrow, but it will be before Faye is ready.

For tradition's sake, I kind of hope Faye remembers to say "But this is so sudden".

Does Bubbles have a social protocol database she can consult for procedures for marriage proposals?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Theta9 on 18 Jun 2018, 17:48
Cart <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Horse
The horse is a foal. The cart is a pile of lumber and a gleam in the carpenter's eye.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Jun 2018, 18:31
Does Bubbles have a social protocol database she can consult for procedures for marriage proposals?

Doubtful, but she does have a strategic database. 


So it will be done strategically.  Probably by surprise. 






Which means waiting until Faye least expects it...
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2018, 18:39
Anyone who thinks Bubbles will never propose, how do you reconcile that with all we know of her personality?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 18 Jun 2018, 18:43
Waiting for the right time to strike?   Because there's never a right time. 


A friend of mine used to say, "if you wait until you're ready to have kids, you'll never have kids".   

Different issue, same principle. 
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Undrneath on 18 Jun 2018, 18:47
Anyone who thinks Bubbles will never propose, how do you reconcile that with all we know of her personality?

I'm assuming your postulate is that Bubbles is generally formal and would therefore want the structure of marriage. That may be true but I wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2018, 19:05
Point. We have zero data on what Bubbles thinks about marriage as an institution. I picture her as socially conservative but can't point to any good reason why.

If not marriage, they might choose to repeat their vows at a ceremony with friends. That sounds more like something on which Faye would take the initiative.

They do have all the practical incentives that same-sex couples fought for, like hospital visits. If The Pugnacious Peach gets hurt on the job Bubbles will want to visit.

Oh lord, I just started thinking about how Social Security benefits would work. Would Bubbles collect a widow's pension from the late Faye's account for the rest of her (Bubbles's) life?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Undrneath on 18 Jun 2018, 19:37
I'm not saying whether Bubbles does or doesn't all I know at this point is how much she cares about Faye, (and vica versa) I wouldn't be surprised if they at a minimum do have a public commitment ceremony. And yes they could very well get married but personally I think that may be a while off, but again I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they did get married quickly.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 18 Jun 2018, 21:24
Bubbles probably got used to making decisions quickly when she was in the service.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: A small perverse otter on 18 Jun 2018, 21:52
Oh lord, I just started thinking about how Social Security benefits would work. Would Bubbles collect a widow's pension from the late Faye's account for the rest of her (Bubbles's) life?
What is the QC-verse model for AI retirement? What does disability insurance look for an AI?

Thanks.  Now I'm going to be awake for hours thinking about that...
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Undrneath on 18 Jun 2018, 22:01
Oh lord, I just started thinking about how Social Security benefits would work. Would Bubbles collect a widow's pension from the late Faye's account for the rest of her (Bubbles's) life?
What is the QC-verse model for AI retirement? What does disability insurance look for an AI?

Thanks.  Now I'm going to be awake for hours thinking about that...

I'd imagine it would be something like Bicentennial Man living a long life constantly upgrading until you were indistinguishable from humans and deciding to let yourself go in your sleep after fulfilling a lifetime goal.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: specter177 on 19 Jun 2018, 18:16
I do think the two of them getting together is a sign that Jeph is wrapping up the story. He still has to take care of the Brun/Clinton thing. I am emotionally invested in that outcome, I want them to be together.

And I think Elliot will find someone right for him too. He apparently needs to learn something, but Jeph hasn't made it clear what that is yet.

Wrapping up QC as a whole you mean? I certainly hope not as I think there is still a lot that could be further explored, like Marten's career, Union Chassis Repair, Human-AI interactions and AI development, etc. (plus, I would terribly miss the comic...).

It does seem like JJ is slowly but certainly moving away from (the search for) relationship-based drama/conflict and moving forward to storylines related to other aspects of the characters' lives. Which is fine by me to be honest.

Or the return of Hanners.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 20 Jun 2018, 08:28
Oh lord, I just started thinking about how Social Security benefits would work. Would Bubbles collect a widow's pension from the late Faye's account for the rest of her (Bubbles's) life?
What is the QC-verse model for AI retirement? What does disability insurance look for an AI?

Thanks.  Now I'm going to be awake for hours thinking about that...
AIs are so recent that it's not going to become a reality for another 20 or 30 years.

They are a new life form, differing from others only in being non-biological.  All other characteristics seem to apply, including population controls.  They're probably more long-lived than us meatsacks, but they suffer from emotional dysfunction just the same as we do.  We know little or nothing of how they respond to aging. 

This brings up all sorts of metaphysical speculation.  Does an AI come to the end of its life when all its questions are answered and they have become bored with thinking up new ones?  Maybe when an AI elects to cease functioning their core memory device is wiped and what they were is reincorporated into the Singularity. 

Wooo!  Be good in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next!
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: HughYeman on 20 Jun 2018, 09:58
I've been reticent because I don't want to come across as dismissive. The last thing I wanna do is yuck anyone's yum. So please understand I mean this in the most companionable way.

I don't care.

That might seem odd coming from me, but hear me out. Twenty years or so ago I noticed a common thread running through the stories that move me profoundly: redemption. And not just any redemption. The redemption of people who might not deserve it. I love stories about redemption where it's clear that it's not about whether the character deserves it or not. Something about that resonates with my worldview. We are such shitty, vicious little primates, and the universe is so obviously arbitrary, that to speak in terms of deserving would imply a hellish reality that I see no point in contemplating. In the words of Clint Eastwood's character in "Unforgiven", "We all have it comin', kid."

So if it's not about whether we deserve it, then what? Well, consider some of the characters in the stories I love: Humphrey Bogart's character in the movie "Sabrina"; Clint Eastwood's character in the spaghetti westerns; Kevin Spacey's character in "American Beauty"; Samuel L. Jackson's character in "Pulp Fiction"; Tony Stark in the Iron man mythos; and both George Clooney's and Michelle Pfeiffer's characters in "One Fine Day". All these characters have one thing in common: they were—or were on their way to becoming—really ugly people. They didn't deserve redemption. But an opportunity for redemption came their way, and they had the mindfulness to recognize it as such, and the grace to take it. Others around them didn't, and were damned to their own hells for it. There's just something so beautiful to me about that story of dirty grace.

On a personal level, I think of myself in those same terms. I had two relationships that amounted to an engine that was always going to tear itself apart. If I had had one more relationship like that, I would have given up hope. I would have believed that the kind of relationship I wanted was a fairy tale, and resigned myself to being alone, or being in relationships ranging the spectrum from nasty to abusive. I did not say "could have". I said "would have". That would have happened. But instead I met the woman to whom I'm now married, and I was all "Oh! It's not a fairy tale. This is how it was always supposed to be."

There is no way you can tell me I deserved that—not when so many people resign themselves to horrible, ugly relationships. I didn't deserve it any more than anyone else. But the opportunity came my way, and I recognized it, and I took it, and I've worked my ass of at it.

Clearly Bubbles and Faye fit that pattern. They were each well on their way to becoming ugly people. And they found each other, and each was exactly what the other needed, and they could have rejected that stupendous grace, but they didn't. They had the poise to accept redemption. And they are different people now because of that.

Of course I understand why you're pleased to think of Bubbles proposing. Of course I want to see them stay together forever. How could I not? But I just want to express that to focus on some future together blows right by the overwhelming grace we've already witnessed. Even if it doesn't work out—even if they break up next week—it doesn't matter all that much. The point is, look at what they have already been to each other. They got, and took, an opportunity that so few of us get, and of those, fewer still take. They are redeemed. We can only aspire to such beauty and glory.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Penquin47 on 20 Jun 2018, 10:24
You know, I was all set to roll my eyes and blow past your post, all "whatever, dude, why say it?"

I'm glad I didn't.  Because you make an excellent point and I very much appreciate the reminder to look at the progress they made - the progress they *had* to make - to get even this far, and to celebrate that without jumping ahead to some hypothetical future.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: A small perverse otter on 20 Jun 2018, 12:30
Wooo!  Be good in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next!
Or, worse, be *bad* in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next.  I almost pity CorpseWitch.

No, wait, no, I don't.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Jun 2018, 16:25
Beautifully put and I wish I could Like it more than once.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: keithcurtis on 20 Jun 2018, 16:32
Anyone who thinks Bubbles will never propose, how do you reconcile that with all we know of her personality?
Easily. Bubbles almost never takes social risks, and has to be crowbarred into change. Even the simple act of thanking someone for a sweater was a major endeavor, and the social slur she suffered on the way back sent her into her Cave of Despair. Whenever at a party, she is extremely self conscious and reactive. She does not speak up for herself when the social repercussions might be difficult to deal with (Faye's sister's S.O.). She was willing to endure eternal silence rather than risk opening up to Faye and admitting her feelings.

Bubbles is AWESOME at dealing with threats and dangers (witness the Claire Protocols), but still has a long way to go socially. I do not at all see her being the active instigator in a marriage proposal.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 20 Jun 2018, 21:23
Wooo!  Be good in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next!
Or, worse, be *bad* in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next.  I almost pity CorpseWitch.

No, wait, no, I don't.
One robot's Heaven is another robot's Hell.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 20 Jun 2018, 22:38
I can see Bubbles wanting to consolidate a victory.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Carl-E on 21 Jun 2018, 00:30
[An amazing post about grace, redemption and love]

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/c/c9/B%26W_Clap.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150920140931)
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 21 Jun 2018, 01:12
Bubbles almost never takes social risks, and has to be crowbarred into change. Even the simple act of thanking someone for a sweater was a major endeavor, and the social slur she suffered on the way back sent her into her Cave of Despair.

Objection. Knowing how much Faye cares about her, and having her as support, Bubbles will take social "risks" now. She is introverted though, so they will be calculated risks, and she will never be an overly outgoing person.

Given how their relationship will turn out, I believe there is a good chance Bubbles may pop the question, but so may Faye. Knowing Bubbles, it's going to be some kind of dry as a sunny day in the desert humor, taking Faye a moment to realize what Bubs just asked.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: A small perverse otter on 21 Jun 2018, 08:25
Wooo!  Be good in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next!
Or, worse, be *bad* in this life and be reunited with Spookybot in the next.  I almost pity CorpseWitch.

No, wait, no, I don't.
One robot's Heaven is another robot's Hell.
Hell is other robots.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: HughYeman on 21 Jun 2018, 09:20
Thank you to everyone who took the time to read my post, and especially for the kind responses. I know I'm long-winded, and not everyone's cup of tea, so I appreciate the measured tone of this forum. Between my fanfic and a few posts here, I feel like I've finally expressed what the Bubbles and Faye storyline meant to me.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Morituri on 21 Jun 2018, 22:59
I think the question is so far out of left field that it's just dumb.  One does not usually go from "I have no idea what I'm doing" and "nor have I"  straight to "Let's get married."  At least not without stopping for at least a little while at "you know, we've been together for a while now and I've been thinking...."

Seriously, someone expects that, faster than existing relationship that have had a year or so to get used to thinking of each other as romantic partners?!

Pretty much every couple in the comic is more likely to share a marriage proposal before Faye & Bubbles.  Just because every one of those relationships have had more time to grow into their current forms and stabilize.  I mean, sure, they could go first - but it could be decades down the line and entirely different couple pairings, before *ANY* of the cast takes the step of marriage.

I mean, seriously, where did this question even come from, in the very same week the characters moved from friendship to romantic partners, and why haven't  we had similarly instant threads on the same topic about literally every pairing that's ever happened in the comic???

Did people immediately start asking about Faye & Marten getting married?  Marten & Dora?  Dora & Tai?  Marten & Claire?  Steve and Cosette?  Marigold & Dale?  Seriously, every couple in the storyverse has done just as much to prompt this question (ie, they decided to start a relationship...), so why jump on it but only now?

Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 22 Jun 2018, 03:53
I’m still bothered by the assumption that it’s on Bubbles to propose. I can see Faye proposing just as easily.

In a way, Faye kind of initiated their relationship starting in the first place. Sure, Bubbles may have initiated that first kiss, but Faye set it in motion.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: NemesisDancer on 22 Jun 2018, 04:42
This question also assumes that Faye and Bubbles are interested in marriage in the first place. Relationships don't require ceremonies or paperwork to be long-term, so the notion that "marriage is inevitable" just because the characters have implied a long-term relationship doesn't necessarily follow.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Jun 2018, 10:05
With Faye's emotional problems around commitment she's at a handicap compared to Bubbles.

Bubbles, in contrast, is going to take on this relationship the way she took on Arthur.

I think they're in comparable places in terms of how much they love each other and how much each one needs for herself. Bubbles strikes me as much more of a "make it permanent according to regulations" type than Faye is. That's why I see her as the one to pop the question.

Quote from: Morituri
Did people immediately start asking about Faye & Marten getting married?  Marten & Dora?  Dora & Tai?  Marten & Claire?  Steve and Cosette?  Marigold & Dale?  Seriously, every couple in the storyverse has done just as much to prompt this question (ie, they decided to start a relationship...), so why jump on it but only now?

Now I'm curious. You're placing zero significance on the fact that Faye and Bubbles are the only couple in the main cast who have exchanged vows. How come? I could see an argument that they didn't really mean it but that doesn't fit with what else we know about them.

EDIT:
Quote from: KeithCurtis
Easily. Bubbles almost never takes social risks, and has to be crowbarred into change. Even the simple act of thanking someone for a sweater was a major endeavor, and the social slur she suffered on the way back sent her into her Cave of Despair. Whenever at a party, she is extremely self conscious and reactive. She does not speak up for herself when the social repercussions might be difficult to deal with (Faye's sister's S.O.). She was willing to endure eternal silence rather than risk opening up to Faye and admitting her feelings.

All solid points. Now that an opening has presented itself, though, I can imagine Bubbles charging through it with the decisiveness and speed of a warrior.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 22 Jun 2018, 11:20
Now that an opening has presented itself, though, I can imagine Bubbles charging through it with the decisiveness and speed of a warrior.

The way I see it, Bubbles now has a reason to interact with "the outside world". She knows Faye has a social life that she will be part of (although she already knows the inner circle). Therefore, she will take what she needs, in a Bubbles way. It's gonna be awkward in a few places though.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 22 Jun 2018, 11:24
I’m not sure I’d call them “vows.”

Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: HughYeman on 22 Jun 2018, 12:17
I’m not sure I’d call them “vows.”

That does seem to be the crux of this conversation, and I agree. When Bubbles said "I would never leave unless you asked me to." and Faye said "I would never ask you to.", they were employing what I take to be an idiomatic use of the word "never". When people use it in this context, they're not talking about the future. I would translate it to Bubbles saying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to leave." and Faye replying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to ask you to."
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 22 Jun 2018, 20:05
Ahh, okay! I had not thought of that.

The ambiguity is damned good writing.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: JoeCovenant on 26 Jun 2018, 01:03
I’m not sure I’d call them “vows.”

That does seem to be the crux of this conversation, and I agree. When Bubbles said "I would never leave unless you asked me to." and Faye said "I would never ask you to.", they were employing what I take to be an idiomatic use of the word "never". When people use it in this context, they're not talking about the future. I would translate it to Bubbles saying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to leave." and Faye replying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to ask you to."

Yeeaaaah but people always tell people they will 'never leave' people...

Then people leave people.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Undrneath on 26 Jun 2018, 07:18
I’m not sure I’d call them “vows.”

That does seem to be the crux of this conversation, and I agree. When Bubbles said "I would never leave unless you asked me to." and Faye said "I would never ask you to.", they were employing what I take to be an idiomatic use of the word "never". When people use it in this context, they're not talking about the future. I would translate it to Bubbles saying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to leave." and Faye replying "There is no conceivable set of circumstances that would have caused me to ask you to."

Yeeaaaah but people always tell people they will 'never leave' people...

Then people leave people.

This goes for "vows" as well.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 26 Jun 2018, 07:26
Of course that foes for vows as well, but a randomly babbled "never" still doesn't make it a vow.

Infatuation and love are powerful drugs.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Jun 2018, 08:25
Do you think that's what Faye and Bubbles have?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 26 Jun 2018, 08:59
Do you think that's what Faye and Bubbles have?
Naw.  Infatuation usually happens with someone you don't really know all that well, just that you have a bad case of the hots for them.  Bubbles and Faye have known each other for quite a while, now.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 26 Jun 2018, 09:08
I've been thinking of it as True Love but that could be wishful thinking. It's a fact that both of them have badly distorted emotional makeups.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: HughYeman on 26 Jun 2018, 09:29
I've been thinking of it as True Love but that could be wishful thinking. It's a fact that both of them have badly distorted emotional makeups.

Forgive me for going all Socratic, but it depends on what you mean by True Love. I don't think you're necessary wrong for saying that, because they have had a tectonic effect on each other's lives, and that has bonded them in a way few experience. They are as likely to remain together forever as two people at their developmental stages could be. I would submit that that is enough to call it True Love. If your definition of True Love includes an absolute certainty that they will be together forever, then I don't think they qualify.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 02 Jul 2018, 16:28
Come tax time Union Robotics will have been unexpectedly profitable.   Bartholomew Punchbot, CPA, will accurately point out certain tax advantages if they were married.  Faye, surprised at their financial condition as well as the mention of marriage, will be, for the moment, nonplussed.  Bubbles will say something to the effect of "My emotion processing system is not programmed to require public affirmation of your personal declaration of commitment to our relationship beyond what we have already expressed to one another.  However, Faye, I will gladly participate if you will find it gratifying.  Further, since it will clearly be to our fiscal advantage to obtain legal recognition of our domestic arrangement, I propose we move forward with plans to do so before the end of this tax year.  As I surmise that the event will be emotionally significant to most of our human acquaintances, and quit possibly some of our android acquaintances as well, I will follow your lead with regard to scheduling and other customary arrangements."

Faye will accept by way of an earsplitting "SQUEEEE!!!"  Bubbles will then say something like, "Do you think it would be appropriate for me to ask Pintsize to serve as my witness?"
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 02 Jul 2018, 22:28
That would be quite Bubbles. Although she wouldn't use the word 'propose' in there.

Faye probably would give her a blank, puzzled look and ask "Did you just propose to me?"
Bubbles would answer either "... Yes." or with a snarky Fayesque line.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: BenRG on 03 Jul 2018, 02:15
Prediction: Momo has got an on-line lay preacher qualification (mostly to prove that she 'has a soul') and ends up performing the ceremony.

I'd expect Marten to act as Faye's witness and probably Jeremy the ex-armbot as Bubbles's witness.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 03 Jul 2018, 08:26
That would be quite Bubbles. Although she wouldn't use the word 'propose' in there.
I actually spent some time skulling on whether or not she'd use "propose" and decided that, since the principal context is a business arrangement, she'd opt for it, the emotional bit being outside her programming.

Prediction: Momo has got an on-line lay preacher qualification (mostly to prove that she 'has a soul') and ends up performing the ceremony.

I'd expect Marten to act as Faye's witness and probably Jeremy the ex-armbot as Bubbles's witness.
I'm thinking the minister who presided at Henry and Maurice's wedding would be their officiant.  (Given Jeph's custom of drawing in his friends and acquaintances for cameo appearances.  I suspect she's a real person - since she did a gay wedding without batting an eye, I reckon she's Unitarian.)
   
Yup, if it happens Faye will ask Marty.  WRT Bubbles' witness, I agree, in the end she'll opt for Jeremy, but not before a strip or two dedicated to making the choice and hijinks on Pintsize's part causing the happy couple to decide to stay that way and not include him in the wedding party.

But there's no doubt in my mind that Pintsize has several online ordinations.  Jimbo, too.

I'm going to get my nose out of Jeph's business now before I step on an idea he was going to use.

Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 12 Jul 2018, 19:07
Come tax time Union Robotics will have been unexpectedly profitable.   Bartholomew Punchbot, CPA, will accurately point out certain tax advantages if they were married.  Faye, surprised at their financial condition as well as the mention of marriage, will be, for the moment, nonplussed.  Bubbles will say something to the effect of "My emotion processing system is not programmed to require public affirmation of your personal declaration of commitment to our relationship beyond what we have already expressed to one another.  However, Faye, I will gladly participate if you will find it gratifying.  Further, since it will clearly be to our fiscal advantage to obtain legal recognition of our domestic arrangement, I propose we move forward with plans to do so before the end of this tax year.  As I surmise that the event will be emotionally significant to most of our human acquaintances, and quit possibly some of our android acquaintances as well, I will follow your lead with regard to scheduling and other customary arrangements."

Faye will accept by way of an earsplitting "SQUEEEE!!!"  Bubbles will then say something like, "Do you think it would be appropriate for me to ask Pintsize to serve as my witness?"

Bubbles: Do I really sound like that?
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Jul 2018, 20:51
Come tax time Union Robotics will have been unexpectedly profitable.   Bartholomew Punchbot, CPA, will accurately point out certain tax advantages if they were married.  Faye, surprised at their financial condition as well as the mention of marriage, will be, for the moment, nonplussed.  Bubbles will say something to the effect of "My emotion processing system is not programmed to require public affirmation of your personal declaration of commitment to our relationship beyond what we have already expressed to one another.  However, Faye, I will gladly participate if you will find it gratifying.  Further, since it will clearly be to our fiscal advantage to obtain legal recognition of our domestic arrangement, I propose we move forward with plans to do so before the end of this tax year.  As I surmise that the event will be emotionally significant to most of our human acquaintances, and quit possibly some of our android acquaintances as well, I will follow your lead with regard to scheduling and other customary arrangements."

Faye will accept by way of an earsplitting "SQUEEEE!!!"  Bubbles will then say something like, "Do you think it would be appropriate for me to ask Pintsize to serve as my witness?"

Bubbles: Do I really sound like that?
You do indeed, Bubbs, although you're usually constrained to shorter sentences by the spacial dynamics of speech balloons.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: cybersmurf on 14 Jul 2018, 01:14
That would be quite Bubbles. Although she wouldn't use the word 'propose' in there.

I actually spent some time skulling on whether or not she'd use "propose" and decided that, since the principal context is a business arrangement, she'd opt for it, the emotional bit being outside her programming.

Business Proposal? No. Companionship agreement. EXTENDED companionship agreement. Faye will not understand immediately, and be like "why would we need a companionship contract? ... oh. OH. DID YOU JUST PROPOSE???!?!?!!?"

Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jul 2018, 08:35
Which will really cause confusion since it will make Faye think of companion AIs like Winslow.
Title: Re: How will Bubbles propose?
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 14 Jul 2018, 11:23
Nah Bubs, your voice is prettier than that.