Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 08 Jul 2018, 20:26

Title: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Jul 2018, 20:26
Not doing the poll thing. Mods want to add one, go for it.

That was a bit... uhm, deep. Even for QC.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 08 Jul 2018, 20:51
I think Clinton has some deep seated issues that he might need to see someone for. His dad sounds like a real piece of work.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 08 Jul 2018, 21:06
This trip to the bakery is becoming as hard on Clinton as it has been on Elliot.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Near Lurker on 08 Jul 2018, 21:20
So I see Brun and Clinton have made it through 500 strips in just... um... 571.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: MrNumbers on 08 Jul 2018, 21:21

Just throw out the raisins and let the healing power of cinnamon fill you
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 08 Jul 2018, 22:10
Well at least Elliott has something else to distract him from the reaction to his soda bread.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 08 Jul 2018, 22:17
The unparseable face certainly has a family resemblance the the screaming internally face (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3773).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Jul 2018, 22:34
I think Clinton has some deep seated issues that he might need to see someone for. His dad sounds like a real piece of work.

Incidents like that cause damage that is not always visible to the conscious mind. Clinton does seem to be able to live a normal life so maybe it's not a "need" situation.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 08 Jul 2018, 22:51
Hopefully Renee comes in and saves poor Elliot...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: traroth on 08 Jul 2018, 23:04
Roko, Elliot, Brun, Renee, and now Clinton? Some people from the QC cast seem to have a strangely intense relation to bread...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: St.Clair on 08 Jul 2018, 23:27
Poor Elliot.  He had no way of knowing, of course.

And Clinton... man.  That face.  When he's telling that story, he's not here, he's back there.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Jul 2018, 23:29
Poor Clinton; seriously, Claire has already implied it quite strongly but this is the first time the Clinton also added evidence that Mr Augustus was a seriously nasty person who has left a lot of scars in his children in his wake.

Additionally, poor Clinton that he feels that he isn't allowed by some social or cultural norms to act as if these scars are present. No wonder Brun is confused: What he's saying and his body language just don't seem to match up and, given that she has problems interpreting this at the best of times, it's giving her contradictory data in learning to understand what he's saying without words!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Timemaster on 08 Jul 2018, 23:31
Jeeez, Clinton. Get a grip man. Maybe you should start working on your issues, you cant throw a fit every time someone mentions raisins.

TM

Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 08 Jul 2018, 23:57
Clinton, just go home and lie back down for an hour or two.  Then get back up and press 'reset' on this day.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2018, 00:59
Good thing she didn't bring home raisinets.

I think Clinton has some deep seated issues that he might need to see someone for. His dad sounds like a real piece of work.

Incidents like that cause damage that is not always visible to the conscious mind. Clinton does seem to be able to live a normal life so maybe it's not a "need" situation.

So long as no-one mentions raisins...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jul 2018, 03:27
Being a humorous comic, Jeph tries makes it funny but, in essence, it looks like raisin bread is a trigger for Clinton. I can't help but wonder just how bad that incident was when his father blew up over his mother buying bread with raisins!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 09 Jul 2018, 05:36
Well that got dark.

People like that are the worst. You gotta structure your life around managing them and even then it's just to reduce the excuses they can find to blow up. They're too entitled to ever change.

@BenRG Yeah if he stomped out for 3 days it's bad. People like that, even if they aren't physically abusive, they work their way into every part of your life so when they remove themself from it they leave a hole. It's not like a relief that hes gone and you can get back to your usual stuff in peace - there IS no usual stuff. And then they'll come back and condescend to you that the pain you felt was because you fucked up, and oh, they hate to see that, but they're helpless to save you from yourself and are so disappointed that you can't just be better and not hurt yourself.

Also I don't think I've ever seen anyone make that expression irl.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: DSL on 09 Jul 2018, 05:40
That memory would make me consider trying to overcome my dislike of raisins in baked goods. Even if only for one bite of a raisin cookie that would be enough of an FU for me toward a guy that petty as Augustus pere. (If it was because I had a raisin allergy or some other reason beyond personal preference, it would be a chocolate chip cookie that I would say was a raisin cookie. Sometimes symbolic gestures are important.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 09 Jul 2018, 06:13
Poor Clinton; seriously, Claire has already implied it quite strongly but this is the first time the Clinton also added evidence that Mr Augustus was a seriously nasty person who has left a lot of scars in his children in his wake.


Oh I can't remember this, did anyone remember where-ish in the comic that was? (claire implying their father wasn't too cosher).

And, damn :-\ doesn't sound good. To be fair to Brun, I've also just learned that 'blank unreadable expression' generally implies 'trouble' (or 'tired'), but I just always check now :')
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Welu on 09 Jul 2018, 06:24
In this strip Claire says that her parents divorced because her dad cheated. (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2371)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jul 2018, 06:42
Oh I can't remember this, did anyone remember where-ish in the comic that was? (claire implying their father wasn't too cosher).

I was thinking specifically of the incident when Claire lashes out at Tai simply because Marten says to her 'Tai is dating my ex-girlfriend' and she heard 'Tai made my girlfriend cheat on me the way your father cheated on your mother' (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2370).

That's a heck of a trigger reaction of its' own right there.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Jul 2018, 13:27
It wasn't the raisins.  The raisins were a handy excuse for Clarence "Gus" (I'm certain that was his nickname) Augustus to throw a tizzy and walk out for three days.  Given that he was no doubt a serial philanderer who'd make Sven look like a celibate monk, he probably spent the time with his girlfriend(s).  C&CMom doesn't strike me as the type to shitcan a relationship just because Gus fell off the fidelity wagon once.  He did it multiple times, and she caught him lying about it.  That's what pushed her over the line, 'WAY over the line.  This may even be the event that precipitated the divorce.

When it looks like the argument is about something insignificant, it isn't.  IT (the insignificant thing) is either a trigger or an outright excuse for the RI (real issue). 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Mordhaus on 09 Jul 2018, 19:52
She's done it before, she'll do it again.

Daaaaaaaamn...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 09 Jul 2018, 19:58
I choose to interpret that alt-text as absolute canonical confirmation that Brun has killed a man.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 09 Jul 2018, 21:07
Brun in this strip is me whenever I find out someone hurt one of my friends. I may be a bit protective.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: DaiJB on 09 Jul 2018, 21:09
Elliot is concerned. That sounds like our Elliot.  :-)

But seriously, yeah, I don't think Clinton has really dealt with this yet - this sounds like a possible upcoming story arc about the Augustus family history and all of its attached baggage...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: DaiJB on 09 Jul 2018, 21:13
You missed an important option in the poll:

A movie by Monty Python  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Bad Superman on 09 Jul 2018, 21:24
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women."

 - Conan the Barbarian
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Jul 2018, 21:58
You missed an important option in the poll:

A movie by Monty Python  :-P

Fixed!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 09 Jul 2018, 22:25
Well hunting down Papa Agustus would give us an excuse to see him since I doubt hell ever return unless someone pulls a drama tag.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jul 2018, 23:26
I really love Brun in this. In her straightforward way, she really is concerned about Clinton and wants to help. "You have to be honest" is her way of saying that she really wants to help but that he has to open up for her to do so. She has a different way of handling the universe than most but, in the end, her reactions are human and, frankly, sweet by her own lights.

I kind of feel sorry for Clinton. I think everyone has a story of the asshole close family member that they prefer not to think about but this one is, as I said yesterday, clearly one that left scars that aren't going away any time soon.

I also wonder if Mr A will be making a return at some point, maybe to object to Claire's engagement simply because he wants to continue to exercise power over his children's happiness.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: hakko504 on 09 Jul 2018, 23:40
You missed an important option in the poll:

A movie by Monty Python  :-P

Fixed!
Also, the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy) is missing.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2018, 23:44
So, I don't think that anyone has missed the point that Clinton has an unresolved issue. On the other hand, what I haven't seen mentioned yet is the complete ease with which Clinton was able to discuss it, with people he has only relatively recently met, on the barest of pretexts (the mere mention of raisins). Compare that with the difficulty Faye before he finally spilled the beans in the famous discussion with Marten. I'm not trying to compare the issues themselves, but the ease with which both characters find themselves willing to discuss them to any degree.

Does this mean that Clinton has already worked through it to some degree, or that the issue is currently festering and he now feels (consciously or otherwise) a strong need to expose it to the light? Either way, it will be interesting to see if this revelation brings any of these characters a little closer to each other.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 09 Jul 2018, 23:50
Dang Brun, how long had you been working "with a nautical theme"?

I don't know why, but Brun is one of my favorites. probably because she's generally a sweetheart. Doesn't always know how to people, but that's OK. I don't either.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: larn on 09 Jul 2018, 23:53
Mongol General: "Conan! What is best in life?"

Conan: "To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women."

 - Conan the Barbarian

- "What is it that a man may call the greatest things in life?"

- "Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."

-- Cohen the Barbarian in conversation with Discworld nomads
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2018, 23:57
Dang Brun, how long had you been working "with a nautical theme"?

I don't know why, but Brun is one of my favorites. probably because she's generally a sweetheart. Doesn't always know how to people, but that's OK. I don't either.

If you figure it out, let me know.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 10 Jul 2018, 00:05

- "What is it that a man may call the greatest things in life?"

- "Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."

-- Cohen the Barbarian in conversation with Discworld nomads

not to mention a hundred different recipes for shoup.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Case on 10 Jul 2018, 01:12
As a declaration of affection, 'I know how to make it look like a harpoon accident' isn't half bad ...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: oddtail on 10 Jul 2018, 01:43
Brun still isn't among my favourite characters in the comic, but she's kinda awesome in this one  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: jesslc on 10 Jul 2018, 03:57
You missed an important option in the poll:

A movie by Monty Python  :-P

Fixed!
Also, the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy) is missing.
I looked for that poll option too!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: gopher on 10 Jul 2018, 04:08
Re the poll.

http://lib.ru/ADAMS/liff.txt (http://lib.ru/ADAMS/liff.txt)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jul 2018, 04:19
Also, the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy) is missing.

Arguably, that is not a valid answer as we do not know the question.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: dna_level_c on 10 Jul 2018, 04:30
w h a t  d o  y o u  g e t  w h e n  y o u  m u l t i p l y  s i x  b y  n i n e ?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jul 2018, 05:39
So, I don't think that anyone has missed the point that Clinton has an unresolved issue. On the other hand, what I haven't seen mentioned yet is the complete ease with which Clinton was able to discuss it, with people he has only relatively recently met, on the barest of pretexts (the mere mention of raisins). Compare that with the difficulty Faye before he finally spilled the beans in the famous discussion with Marten. I'm not trying to compare the issues themselves, but the ease with which both characters find themselves willing to discuss them to any degree.

Does this mean that Clinton has already worked through it to some degree, or that the issue is currently festering and he now feels (consciously or otherwise) a strong need to expose it to the light? Either way, it will be interesting to see if this revelation brings any of these characters a little closer to each other.

The circumstances between Faye's dad and elder Augustus are vastly different. Faye had no sign there was anything bothering her father, whom she loved dearly, until he committed suicide right in front of her. If I remember correctly she still doesn't know why. Humans are desperate to know why a tragedy occurs to them, they need to understand so bad they'll invent reasons if they have to. Faye never had that closure. Just one day he was her loving, seeming happy father and with a literal bang he was gone, leaving her with nothing but pain and questions. Faye also tends to be reserved and tight lipped about her own feelings, burying them away or trying to drink them away previously.

Clinton and Claire's experience is quite different. As far as they/we know their father is still alive. He's just a cheating asshole they have and want nothing to do with. And it certainly looks like his cheating and abusive nature was well known for a long before he finally left for good and their parents were divorced. The source of their trauma is less sudden and intense. And they open up about their feelings and past a lot more readily. Therapy about it probably, and they had each other for support where as Faye closed herself off. The pain may never go away, and some things may trigger a stress or panic reaction as we've seen. But when you've talked and told so many people about it, telling a few more becomes routine, and does help lessen the sting of it. That is part of the point of group therapy sessions.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018
Post by: Theta9 on 10 Jul 2018, 06:23
w h a t  d o  y o u  g e t  w h e n  y o u  m u l t i p l y  s i x  b y  n i n e ?
Wrong question, as Ford pointed out, because Arthur is descended from the Golgafrincham colonists and not from the indigenous Earth people, who died out after the Golgafrincham landing.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018
Post by: dna_level_c on 10 Jul 2018, 06:37
w h a t  d o  y o u  g e t  w h e n  y o u  m u l t i p l y  s i x  b y  n i n e ?
Wrong question

Dang, forgot about that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 10 Jul 2018, 06:59
I hope Officer Basilisk is never tempted to look into a series of 'harpoon accidents'...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 10 Jul 2018, 08:21
they work their way into every part of your life

Yeah, that's the problem. And even if you get away from it for a while, it's still in your psyche.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 10 Jul 2018, 12:18
When it was mentioned that such a harpoon "accident" had happened in the past, there was no qualifier as to gender or species of the accident "victim".
Be careful of what one assumes because therein lies both bias and folly, and folly has a predilection for mayhem.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 10 Jul 2018, 12:59
Sorry about that. I only meant that I'm now certain she's killed before and will again.
Now I want a storyline where she was a nautically themed superspy that harpooned fools in the name of national security. Maybe she had a run-in with Steve and tortura.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 10 Jul 2018, 13:02
It means only that Brun told someone how to made it look like an accident, not that she actually did the Queequeg on anyone.  It's still aiding and abetting if said harpoon hurling was unlawful, but verbal instruction only would be much harder to trace back to her. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 10 Jul 2018, 13:18
break out the flencing tools...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 10 Jul 2018, 16:13
Sorry about that. I only meant that I'm now certain she's killed before and will again.
Now I want a storyline where she was a nautically themed superspy that harpooned fools in the name of national security. Maybe she had a run-in with Steve and tortura.

Or was a superhero.

"Whatever HAPPENED to Harpoon Girl?"

*Brun whistles innocently*
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 10 Jul 2018, 19:17
"I was cleaning it and it went off."

----

Whether you're rich or poor, it's nice to have raisins.

Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Magniras on 10 Jul 2018, 19:24
I've lived on 35 dollars a week.  And let me tell you, raisins are a great filler for peanut butter sandwiches.  Plus they're cheap.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: helo on 10 Jul 2018, 20:32
I've been reading for three years and this was kind of a screeching halt for me. What bizarre turn of events can make you too poor for raisins? That was definitely something I could get with school lunch too. Is there some kind of grape famine that needs to be explained at a later date?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 10 Jul 2018, 20:52
I've been that poor. Yes, raisins are cheap. But they are also not filling. The primary goal when your food bill is around $10 a week is how much filling mass you can get so you don't feel like  you are constantly starving. That's why quarter ramen is a staple. Cheap price for that amount of starchy filler.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Freelance_Physicist on 10 Jul 2018, 21:20
Some lived experience (with more stories in the comments): Being Poor (https://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: jesslc on 10 Jul 2018, 21:22
So Clinton just shared about how awful his dad was and now Brun mentions something that affected her upbringing. I guess it's Elliot's turn next...? :-)

Edited to add:
I personally have never been so poor that I couldn't afford raisins but I've talked to or read stuff by people who have been that poor, and yeah... Brun's comments were totally believable to me. I count myself very lucky that I've never been in that situation (even though I have lived below the poverty line a lot, my situation has never been quite so bad).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 10 Jul 2018, 22:30
Too poor for raisins?  Sounds like a setup for the Yorkshiremen sketch.

Dont feel too bad Clinton.  Its just as presumptuous to think Brun wouldnt know anything about raisins because shes poor or foreign.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jul 2018, 22:37
I've been reading for three years and this was kind of a screeching halt for me. What bizarre turn of events can make you too poor for raisins? That was definitely something I could get with school lunch too. Is there some kind of grape famine that needs to be explained at a later date?

Welcome, sort of new person!

The thing to understand here is the need of many people to have a reason for being. According to the French, this creates a raisin debt.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jul 2018, 23:32
This is probably just me or maybe I was fortunate but I do get the impression that Jeph used the 'too poor for raisins' basically as an exaggeration for effect because my experience is that they're ultra-cheap; they're just not a staple food and thus rarely on the shopping list. That said, this son of an unemployed single mother (who wasn't able to get work until I was around 5 years and then at a very low salary) does know that such 'treats' as I had were either gifts from my better-off relatives or something that my mother had to budget carefully to afford, as in 'what necessity can we do without this week'.

I do like panel 6. Yes, Brun is getting to know Clinton's behaviour patterns. She's good enough at it that she's pretty sure that he doesn't like being embarrassed by his lack of certain social experiences that lead to him being able to predict her experiences. She'll bear that in mind in the future.

Over on Patreon, some posters have speculated that Brun's parents may have been undocumented migrants. Does anyone else think that's possible?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 10 Jul 2018, 23:35
We didn't have raisins. We had sultanas.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 10 Jul 2018, 23:58
many people to have a reason for being. According to the French, this creates a raisin debt.

I don't know whether to boo you or cheer you. That was horrible / glorious.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: freeman on 11 Jul 2018, 01:11
I think raisins are one of those food items some people intensely dislike, so maybe that's why.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Loki on 11 Jul 2018, 03:33
As a child, I only very rarely had ice cream; it was 50ct back then.

I once spent about half a year wearing shoes that were chafing my ankle. (New ones would have been 30 Euros or so). Before my mother had discovered it and was apalled, I had literally developed calluses.

When you are a poor child in a poor family, you learn not to ask for those special treats, because you are aware you are poor, and your parents probably won't buy it anyway, and you don't want to stress them, so you just never mention anything that goes beyond what is usually bought. Because you don't have a real concept of what things are worth, and when your parent says "it's too expensive", you remember that, no matter if it is 50 ct or 30 Euros.

Poverty fucks with your mind, especially when you are a child.

(I cam out of the woodworks just to say this. Damn, I never want to be poor again.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 11 Jul 2018, 04:31
When you are a poor child in a poor family, you learn not to ask for those special treats, because you are aware you are poor, and your parents probably won't buy it anyway, and you don't want to stress them, so you just never mention anything that goes beyond what is usually bought. Because you don't have a real concept of what things are worth, and when your parent says "it's too expensive", you remember that, no matter if it is 50 ct or 30 Euros.
Poverty fucks with your mind, especially when you are a child.
Amen to that. I think folks are focusing on the wrong target here. It's not the raisins. It's the opportunity cost of raisins.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 11 Jul 2018, 06:25
I'm not completely sure where JJ is going with the current arc, but the approach feels somewhat ehm, heavyhanded? (Is that the right word?)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: gopher on 11 Jul 2018, 06:36
I'm not completely sure where JJ is going with the current arc, but the approach feels somewhat ehm, heavyhanded? (Is that the right word?)

I don't know. Much like the start with Claire, I think the author is being quite careful in setting out his stand before commencing the story. A huge amount of his characters, and I suspect readers, are somewhat privileged, probably middle class and have never properly struggled for money. Having to buy Aldi tinned tuna instead of Waitrose/Trader Joe/Spar is not struggling. Stretching 1 can for 4 might be. Give him a chance. If we are lucky it will develop into the Claire arc, if not the Tilly one ;)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Oenone on 11 Jul 2018, 07:01
Im just hoping this is the arc we learn about how Brun and Renee became friends
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 11 Jul 2018, 07:54
I get the feeling that Brun and Renee go wayyyy back, probably since childhood. Brun doesn't feel the need to make overt gestures of greeting to Renee like she did to Clinton. That's the kind of bond that can take years to establish.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: wrobrox on 11 Jul 2018, 08:05
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2018, 09:53
Welcome, new person.

We don't know what Brun's parents told her about what food was affordable. We don't know what logical but clueless childhood guesses she came up with on her own. I can imagine several ways this could be good writing even if Brun is completely wrong about the affordability of raisins.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: heyjames4 on 11 Jul 2018, 10:22
There's an old XKCD comic about how when someone shares with you that they lack an experience, the best response is welcoming joy, not disdain or even disbelief. It was meant to be about pop culture, but it can also apply to food.


A: I've never had raisins.
B: Then you're in for a treat!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2018, 10:43
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ten_thousand.png)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 11 Jul 2018, 11:25
Simple substitution
A: I've never had raisins. SNAILS
B: Then you're in for a treat!
I did and they were not.

As for Raisins, as a kid I remember having them in  Stollen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stollen) and oranges were also something to be anticipated at Christmas.
Bread was by the tray and it was the long past the best before date but rodent and fungus free.
For my dad supporting a family with 4 preschool kids on a self employed  income that was dependent of clients actually paying their bills on time if at all was a challenge.
My mum tried the best she could to give us as close to a middle class life as she could.
The house was clean but sparse and we had the utilities cut off in winter a couple of times - St Vincent De Paul helped fix that issue back then [it was illegal for the utilities to do that] - those deadbeat clients aka the 1%.
The SallyAnn was the place for clothing and pretty much anything you could get away with used.
Outside of  Christmas gifts received from overseas relatives, we bought our own toys from there with what little we made on our own doing chores around the neighborhood.

If you are raised in an environment where EVERYTHING was scrimped and saved it is very very hard to not always look at the cost of things even if you do much better latter on in life.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 11 Jul 2018, 11:28
I think the raisins are an allegory for the difference between poverty and privilege. It really could have been anything, but raisins just fit into the "bread week" theme easily.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Y on 11 Jul 2018, 14:03
I remember other kids had little packets of raisins as if it were candy. They gave me a few raisins.(I wasn't poor) Though we had raisins at home, like in muesli (oats), and if we were lucky raisin bread. My favorite ice cream is Rum Raisins (Malaga), which I discovered back in my university dorm, the ice cream man even gave me his number as I was a good customer.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 11 Jul 2018, 16:30
Milayna: "even if they aren't physically abusive, they work their way into every part of your life so when they remove themself from it they leave a hole. It's not like a relief that hes gone and you can get back to your usual stuff in peace - there IS no usual stuff" -- that. That's my dad.

"People like that are the worst. You gotta structure your life around managing them and even then it's just to reduce the excuses they can find to blow up. They're too entitled to ever change."
My dad.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 11 Jul 2018, 17:47
"there IS no usual stuff"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: jesslc on 11 Jul 2018, 22:15
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.

Well I guess we read this comic differently then. I don't see this as implying that poor people are ignorant about things they can't afford at all. I see it as Jeph making the point "believe people when they tell you about their life".

Brun isn't ignorant of what raisins are. She's just never had one and doesn't know if she likes them. I find that believable - I didn't know what raisins were like for ages (Mum didn't like them and so didn't buy them).

When Clinton pushes back with "you never had them packed in your lunch for school", "what about snacks at home" she answers each question very literally as Brun tends to do. And honestly that was kind of obnoxious of Clinton - assuming that experiences of his are common to everyone. I never experienced lots of stuff growing up, not because we were very poor but because my parents had weird ideas about some things. And it's really annoying when people doubt my word about it if it comes up in conversation. A simple "Really? You've never tried X? / You've never seen Y? / You've never been to a...?" is okay but when they keep pushing the issue ("I can't believe you've never... what about... or what about..."), I get really annoyed. "Yes I just said I've never tried X, didn't you hear me! Can you get over just get over your shock about it already and stop disbelieving my life?"

Also remember the deodorant arc - Brun doesn't tend to buy new things because she doesn't trust them. The autism spectrum traits that Brun has displayed makes it less likely for her to try new things. I'm sure she's seen raisins and raisin bread in shops but just has never bought them because she doesn't know if she'll like them. It's very in character for Brun to not try new things.

Edit: just noticed the 3rd last sentence was missing a word. Oops.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 11 Jul 2018, 22:51
Well we know a little more about Brun, but Im still curious about whether she was born in the US or immigrated.  Since her full name is Brunhilde I suppose she lived for some time in Germany, but her parents originated from Turkey or possibly another Middle Eastern country.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Jul 2018, 23:26
So, Brun's an orphan and lost both her parents before she was twenty (or ~5 years ago in-universe). Oddly enough, the first thing that popped into my head is: Has she been essentially on her own since then? Y'see, the way she avoids Clinton's eyes in Panel 3 makes me think that no-one has ever offered Brun emotional support over this. It's still painful for Brun but I get the impression that someone has basically taught her that it is something that she keep away from social contacts because they don't want to hear about it. FWIW, I've wondered for a while if her former employer at The Nasty Whale may have been a relative of some kind but his actions to date really don't suggest that he's someone who'd be inclined to help a damaged young adult deal with grief that her brain can probably only barely process. Maybe he's responsible for some of her difficulty in trusting and opening up?

All that aside, I'd really like to hear Brun's analysis of raisins and why she doesn't like them. The fact that it took so many slices to decide does suggest it was a fairly close outcome! :wink:

So, here's a prediction for the rest of this arc: Clinton decides that Brun needs a hug. She asks him (in her usual way) if this is a socially-appropriate gesture of support or a prelude to a sexual advance. Clinton confirms that it's a gesture of support and so she feels safe to reciprocate, remarking that she isn't entirely opposed to the latter from him. Elliot comes over and it kind of breaks his heart because, as always, he's making assumptions without context. He wanders home in a huff and is taking off his shirt as he walks down the hall, giving Roko a good first view of Human Abs.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Jul 2018, 00:34
It's an exercise in illustrating contrasts.  In Clinton's world access to a particular food was so much the norm that it was scarcely noticed but a nice father was unheard of.  In Brun's world that same food was an unaffordable luxury while having two loving parents was something taken for granted as a child.

Kids learn what they live, and Clinton will model his parenting on his own father's.  He's intelligent enough to break the pattern, but it will require conscious effort on his part.  Some guys can dad by the seat of their pants, but he won't dare to without risking disaster.  (It won't be as much of an issue if there was an as yet unintroduced male role model, perhaps a grandfather or uncle, in their lives.)

Jeph is setting the stage for a pretty deep story.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: TRenn on 12 Jul 2018, 01:11
Dang Brun, how long had you been working "with a nautical theme"?

I don't know why, but Brun is one of my favorites. probably because she's generally a sweetheart. Doesn't always know how to people, but that's OK. I don't either.

It is now my headcanon that the harpoon in that bar that burned down wasn't part of the decor, it was Brun's. She brought it with her, and they themed the bar around it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 12 Jul 2018, 02:14
Dang Brun, how long had you been working "with a nautical theme"?

I don't know why, but Brun is one of my favorites. probably because she's generally a sweetheart. Doesn't always know how to people, but that's OK. I don't either.

It is now my headcanon that the harpoon in that bar that burned down wasn't part of the decor, it was Brun's. She brought it with her, and they themed the bar around it.

"I think about giving the bar a new theme." "Nautical." ".. But-" "Nautical." "...." "I've got a harpoon already."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jul 2018, 04:35
Well we know a little more about Brun, but I’m still curious about whether she was born in the US or immigrated.  Since her full name is Brunhilde I suppose she lived for some time in Germany, but her parents originated from Turkey or possibly another Middle Eastern country.
For what it’s worth, I’ve always seen Brun as being of mixed European and African ancestry - her skin tone and hair match that. If I had to construct a headcanon for her, it would be that her African-American father was in the US Air Force and married a local girl while stationed in Germany. It’s a common enough story.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Jul 2018, 04:46
Well we know a little more about Brun, but Im still curious about whether she was born in the US or immigrated.  Since her full name is Brunhilde I suppose she lived for some time in Germany, but her parents originated from Turkey or possibly another Middle Eastern country.

For what its worth, Ive always seen Brun as being of mixed European and African ancestry - her skin tone and hair match that. If I had to construct a headcanon for her, it would be that her African-American father was in the US Air Force and married a local girl while stationed in Germany. Its a common enough story.

Personally, I think that Brun is an ethnic Roma whose most recent ancestry is German. Her hair and skin colour is consistent with that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 12 Jul 2018, 04:50
I think the raisins are an allegory for the difference between poverty and privilege. It really could have been anything, but raisins just fit into the "bread week" theme easily.

And where, precisely, does poverty end and privilege begin?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 12 Jul 2018, 04:58
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.

Without being ridiculous here - is it not possible to be poorer than you were? Is it not possible to have different accessibility to these things?

And to throw something in from my own headcanon - people often suspect that Brun has AS, I have AS, there are SHITLOADS of things that I haven't tried and many points in life where I might not have put together that 1. my own experience is unusual 2. the reasoning may be different to what I think it is.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 12 Jul 2018, 05:06
I think the raisins are an allegory for the difference between poverty and privilege. It really could have been anything, but raisins just fit into the "bread week" theme easily.

And where, precisely, does poverty end and privilege begin?

The poverty isn't just financial, Clinton grew up financially stable while Brun grew up (at least until she was 15) with two loving parents. Both had something the other didn't thus in a way privileged.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 12 Jul 2018, 06:55
I think the raisins are an allegory for the difference between poverty and privilege. It really could have been anything, but raisins just fit into the "bread week" theme easily.

And where, precisely, does poverty end and privilege begin?

Just talk to the Yorkshire man next to you and hell tell you how good you had it by how terrible it was for him.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 12 Jul 2018, 07:01
Poor Brun. Daym...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 12 Jul 2018, 07:22
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.

Without being ridiculous here - is it not possible to be poorer than you were? Is it not possible to have different accessibility to these things?

And to throw something in from my own headcanon - people often suspect that Brun has AS, I have AS, there are SHITLOADS of things that I haven't tried and many points in life where I might not have put together that 1. my own experience is unusual 2. the reasoning may be different to what I think it is.

Yes, I've been meaning to say something like this, so thank you for beating me to it.

There are all kinds of reasons why anyone would or would not have tried any specific food you care to name. Why Clinton, or anyone else, is quite so astonished that Brun had, until this point, never tried a raisin is a little... well...  astonishing to me. This is like the food version of the famous xkcd ten thousand strip (https://xkcd.com/1053/). Why make a big deal out of it? I don't think that it requires any special explanation. As I joked before, I didn't have raisins growing up. That's just because little snack boxes of sultanas were more popular at the time.

It would be kind of funny if we had a future strip where it turns out that Hannelore has also never had raisins.

BTW, this may be a subtlety, but Brun didn't really say she'd never had raisins because she was poor. She said she didn't have snacks because she was poor. Raisins aren't just snacks. She never had raisins because... well, she just never had them. It happens.

P.S. It's hard to draft these posts and successfully communicate your thoughts when you're tired and really ought to be in bed.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Oenone on 12 Jul 2018, 07:25
If Brun has always had issues with new things, its possible her parents were cautious about buying foods it wasnt pre established shed like because thatd be a waste of money.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 12 Jul 2018, 07:29
That makes a lot of sense to me.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: fantasticalice on 12 Jul 2018, 08:18
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.

Well I guess we read this comic differently then. I don't see this as implying that poor people are ignorant about things they can't afford at all. I see it as Jeph making the point "believe people when they tell you about their life".

Brun isn't ignorant of what raisins are. She's just never had one and doesn't know if she likes them. I find that believable - I didn't know what raisins were like for ages (Mum didn't like them and so didn't buy them).

When Clinton pushes back with "you never had them packed in your lunch for school", "what about snacks at home" she answers each question very literally as Brun tends to do. And honestly that was kind of obnoxious of Clinton - assuming that experiences of his are common to everyone. I never experienced lots of stuff growing up, not because we were very poor but because my parents had weird ideas about some things. And it's really annoying when people doubt my word about it if it comes up in conversation. A simple "Really? You've never tried X? / You've never seen Y? / You've never been to a...?" is okay but when they keep pushing the issue ("I can't believe you've never... what about... or what about..."), I get really annoyed. "Yes I just said I've never tried X, didn't you hear me! Can you get over just get over your shock about it already and stop disbelieving my life?"

Also remember the deodorant arc - Brun doesn't tend to buy new things because she doesn't trust them. The autism spectrum traits that Brun has displayed makes it less for her to try new things. I'm sure she's seen raisins and raisin bread in shops but just has never bought them because she doesn't know if she'll like them. It's very in character for Brun to not try new things.

I've never really had plain white bread. I seem to recall having it toasted once or twice. And one time I was at a friend's hpuse and was served a white bread sandwich that was practically soaked in mustard(which I did not like as a child) and it made me sick.

I have no real idea what white bread is like. In my case it was because we were poor. My parents read made sure to at least give me healthy bread as often we didn't have much else besides.

It's such a weird disconnect that even though I have never had it(anything soaked with mustard would have made me sick) I'm a little afraid of it.

We also had no phone for 4 years. And no air conditioning for 4 years as well. and we were in a place that in 2018 climbs up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit.

There were lots of foods I wasn't familiar with because despite how poor we were my parents tried to keep me healthy. For almost 2 years we had chicken almost every night and spaghetti with marinara sauce.


One thing I know that DID make me different is Inhad a much wider knowledge of fruit juices and "weird" nature foods like sprouts and ridiccio I didn't like em as a kid but my da's family always had odd stuff because they were really well off.

I could go on but in my case I know there's some really common foods that I have never had and even avoid.

White bread always makes me feel sick even though I've never technically had it because all I know about it is it doesn't have all the grains and stuff even the cheapest bargain basement wheat bread has.

I also really like the thick sprouted wheat bread with the sunflower seed chunks and stuff.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 12 Jul 2018, 08:41
I actually made an account just to talk about this.

I had a good friend growing up, their family was extremely poor. They had electricity about one week out of the month, bathed in a tub outside, and had to keep their shoes for so long their toes are permanently curled and cramped. They almost never had food in the house and both of her parents were heavy drug addicts.

She is very aware of what raisins are and when I asked her what she thought of this comic and she said it was extremely upsetting. She isn't wholly ignorant of everything her family couldn't afford, and to imply otherwise is grossly offensive.

I had always heard Jeph was disconnected from reality but this is a big one in my view.

Personally I've been very poor. My diet consisted of rice and kool-aid was a big treat that I looked forward to, and I often had to give my dog what little food I had because I consider it unfair to make a dog go hungry, and I was in such a bad place that I honestly wasn't sure if starving to death would be all that bad.

I know what fucking raisins taste like.

Well I guess we read this comic differently then. I don't see this as implying that poor people are ignorant about things they can't afford at all. I see it as Jeph making the point "believe people when they tell you about their life".

Brun isn't ignorant of what raisins are. She's just never had one and doesn't know if she likes them. I find that believable - I didn't know what raisins were like for ages (Mum didn't like them and so didn't buy them).

When Clinton pushes back with "you never had them packed in your lunch for school", "what about snacks at home" she answers each question very literally as Brun tends to do. And honestly that was kind of obnoxious of Clinton - assuming that experiences of his are common to everyone. I never experienced lots of stuff growing up, not because we were very poor but because my parents had weird ideas about some things. And it's really annoying when people doubt my word about it if it comes up in conversation. A simple "Really? You've never tried X? / You've never seen Y? / You've never been to a...?" is okay but when they keep pushing the issue ("I can't believe you've never... what about... or what about..."), I get really annoyed. "Yes I just said I've never tried X, didn't you hear me! Can you get over just get over your shock about it already and stop disbelieving my life?"

Also remember the deodorant arc - Brun doesn't tend to buy new things because she doesn't trust them. The autism spectrum traits that Brun has displayed makes it less for her to try new things. I'm sure she's seen raisins and raisin bread in shops but just has never bought them because she doesn't know if she'll like them. It's very in character for Brun to not try new things.

I was like that for most of my life, too, both as a trait and for Reasons. My dad continually pushed me to try new things (food, experiences going to the top of the Gateway Arch even though I was afraid of heights, etc) - it as like a personal crusade. I mostly resisted, both as a trait and for Reasons. Nowadays I go out of my way to try new restaurants (when my money anxiety is low enough), order things I haven't tried in restaurants, or at least try whatever new item the fast food joints have in stock. Though my habits mostly stick to the same...things, partially because I don't know what else there is to do or how to find out, partially because I hate spending money, and partially fear. Though the last one is not as much a factor as it used to be.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 12 Jul 2018, 09:02
Y'see, the way she avoids Clinton's eyes in Panel 3 makes me think that no-one has ever offered Brun emotional support over this. It's still painful for Brun but I get the impression that someone has basically taught her that it is something that she keep away from social contacts because they don't want to hear about it.

All that aside, I'd really like to hear Brun's analysis of raisins and why she doesn't like them. The fact that it took so many slices to decide does suggest it was a fairly close outcome! :wink:

She also avoids eye contact in the previous comic, quite obviously, focusing on the raisins as she answers those questions.

Analyzing from my personal perspective again: I avoid eye contact, in general, because it's uncomfortable, and because eye contact alone makes a creepy stare; there's a whole load of other subtle nonverbal behaviors that need to accompany it, and it's difficult enough alone to try to form precise thoughts and then form them into words. Add to that remembering what amounts to a complicated dance; add to it doing it in a way that communicates effectively to someone I am not familiar enough with to fully understand - and who I know doesn't fully understand me, and may get offended if I screw up - and then emotionally charge the subject on top of everything; and yeah, I'll need to put my focus on ANYTHING else just to make sure my verbal communication says what I want it to.

This isn't the case with all autistic people, of course - I knew a guy who was boisterous and gregarious. I'm probably more avoidant than most, hence my need to guard myself becoming so overwhelming that full communication is nearly impossible in these situations. (Notice, also, that she did make eye contact briefly when she felt the need to push back).

Also watch her eyes: her staring at the bread was pretty intense while under the 3rd degree, but in today's comic, once Clinton lets up and the situation defuses somewhat, she's still avoiding eye contact but not in a focused, deliberate way.

Now that you mention it I really want to hear this raisin analysis too!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Oenone on 12 Jul 2018, 10:02
My bet is the texture/mouth feel. The taste is probably good, but the feel is off.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Spider on 12 Jul 2018, 10:46
*crawls out from cave to share my thoughts*

Oh boy this strip was relatable. So. I'm autistic and I grew up pretty poor. I also have the culinary palette of a 10 year old. I'm very sensitive to certain flavors and theres only a handful of foods i enjoy that won't make me gag. I'm the worst picky eater.

These too facts combined, well, there's a lot of foods I've never eaten that have gotten me many reactions of "What!? You've never had that before!? How!?!?" and it gets extremely embarrassing.

Fruits and vegetables especially I have not much knowledge of. Because when you're poor it's smarter to buy nonperishables than food than food that can go bad in a few days. Coupled with the high likelihood that I wouldn't like whatever it is anyway, making it a waste of money, most common fruits and vegetables were simply never bought.

I've never eaten watermelon, cherries, asparagus, or mushrooms. It was only last year I tried pineapple for the first time and only a few months ago I had my first broccoli. And yes, I've never actually tried raisins before because it just looked like something I wouldn't like and I never felt like wasting the money to find out.

There's not really the point to all that I'm saying but I guess what I mean is I really connected with Brun here. Good job Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Oenone on 12 Jul 2018, 10:59
Thank you for climbing out of your cave! Your thoughts are really great.

(And not just because they agree with mine ;))
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: brasca on 12 Jul 2018, 12:01
Well we know a little more about Brun, but Im still curious about whether she was born in the US or immigrated.  Since her full name is Brunhilde I suppose she lived for some time in Germany, but her parents originated from Turkey or possibly another Middle Eastern country.
For what its worth, Ive always seen Brun as being of mixed European and African ancestry - her skin tone and hair match that. If I had to construct a headcanon for her, it would be that her African-American father was in the US Air Force and married a local girl while stationed in Germany. Its a common enough story.

Sounds plausible and would explain why she has a German name while ethnically different.  Im not sure if she has an accent so she may have come over with her parents when she was still very young.  It would also explain her impoverished upbringing.  Germany has a generous welfare state, but in America it varies from state to state.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 12 Jul 2018, 12:40
As someone who lost both of my parents at age 19, I sympathize with Brun in that regard.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jul 2018, 13:27
So I told a friend about the raisin discussion here.

She grew up in a part of the US far from raisin producing areas and with poor transportation links. There and then, raisins were really expensive. I think she did have them but a lot of people there were poorer than her.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Jul 2018, 16:07
So I told a friend about the raisin discussion here.

She grew up in a part of the US far from raisin producing areas and with poor transportation links. There and then, raisins were really expensive. I think she did have them but a lot of people there were poorer than her.
That's got to be Alaska.  EVERYTHING's expensive up there.

Having rabbits as a kid put me off raisins.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Inconsequential on 12 Jul 2018, 16:58
Personally, I detest raisins. Just don't like 'em. Never did, never will.

I like grapes. I like other types of dried fruit. But dried grapes, bleagh. I don't know why, exactly.

I hate raisins to the point that I'll go to no small amount of trouble to pick them out of things like trail mix where the evil little wrinkly bastards have no business lurking. I mostly just skip foods contaminated by raisins.


Anyhoo, that's all beside the point...


OK, let's say you're 6 year old Brun's Mom in a grocery store. You see a sale on raisins.

"Brun, do you like raisins?"

"I don't know. They look gross."

"OK, then. We don't want to waste food, so I'm not buying them."

And thus raisins do not enter the house, and Brun ends up somewhere in her mid-20s without encountering them again.

Even in a household that isn't poor, it's quite plausible that raisins wouldn't re-appear once rejected by a kid who was probably always pretty picky about what she eats anyway.

Also, although time is hazy in the QC universe (as well as its other relations to our universe), the California Raisins craze was huge in the late '80s and was pretty much over by the time Brun was born.


In any case, it's nice to learn a little more about Brun and Clinton.

Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Inconsequential on 12 Jul 2018, 17:11
It means only that Brun told someone how to made it look like an accident, not that she actually did the Queequeg on anyone.  It's still aiding and abetting if said harpoon hurling was unlawful, but verbal instruction only would be much harder to trace back to her.

"...did the Queequeg..." LOL.   :lol:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 12 Jul 2018, 19:43
So, here's a prediction for the rest of this arc: Clinton decides that Brun needs a hug. She asks him (in her usual way) if this is a socially-appropriate gesture of support or a prelude to a sexual advance. Clinton confirms that it's a gesture of support and so she feels safe to reciprocate, remarking that she isn't entirely opposed to the latter from him. Elliot comes over and it kind of breaks his heart because, as always, he's making assumptions without context. He wanders home in a huff and is taking off his shirt as he walks down the hall, giving Roko a good first view of Human Abs.
1 out of 3 so far, tune in next week to see if Roko makes it a 2! (half point if he accidentally flashes Melon hanging out in his place)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Jul 2018, 23:03
An interesting call-back to the first appearance of The Secret Bakery in today's strip. Anyone else remember Renee idly mentioning to Padma that the 'blender thing in the back' was on fire? I wonder if the same unidentified bit of bakery technology gave up the ghost for Elliot?

Meanwhile, if Elliot were to learn anything from today's strip, I hope it is this: Not every sad or awkward social interaction in his circle is his fault!

You know, panel 3 makes me think that Brun really wanted to like Raisins and that the biggest disappointment in this interaction for her was finding out this isn't the case. I guess that, ever since childhood, she had this fantasy of what these 'luxury foods' would be like only to finally try one and not like them. Emotionally, it's kind of like chasing the rainbow to its end and finding that the 'pot of gold' only contained lumps of rock that someone painted yellow!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 13 Jul 2018, 04:41
In Chilean cousine, we use raisins in  salty food specially in stuffing alongside meat, onions, garlic, etc. I love it as an ingredient in that regard and brings out a nice tiny sweet flavour. But in sweet food? Nah, Don't like it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 13 Jul 2018, 05:03
I'm a fan of raisins in Moroccan couscous. And yes, in bread too.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 13 Jul 2018, 07:50
Raisins are superfluous to me, in pretty much any food where they're an option, there's better options.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Roborat on 13 Jul 2018, 11:10
I wasn't entirely sure how to interpret the second panel initially.  My first thought was that both their deodorants had worn off at the same time.  And then that somehow we were going to get a touchback to the previous episode of Brun smelling him. Then I read the last panel and wasn't sure if I wanted to be amused or disappointed.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 13 Jul 2018, 11:11
Raisins were a cheap way to fill out a dessert when I was a kid. Looking back, we weren't poor, but we did have a lot of work done around the house, which meant that money wasn't so much tight as it was made to stretch.

Raisins in a bread and butter pudding, worked. Or to fill out griddle cakes. That worked too.

Since then I've tried to use raisins in other ways. Throw them into a tagine, they sweeten it. I've thrown them into a roast pork dish, they plump up.

The thing to remember about raisins is that they are just dehydrated grapes. Add them to a dish with liquid in it and they take on a lot of those flavours.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Rincewind on 13 Jul 2018, 11:45
My favorite uses for raisins are:
 1) Clusters of them dipped in milk chocolate
 B) Clusters of them dipped in white chocolate
 Tertious) In soft, chewy, buttery oatmeal raisin cookies
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: traroth on 13 Jul 2018, 13:45
Let's try to be cheerful... I love raisins, in pastry, in oatmeal, in chocolate, in couscous, almost anywhere, actually...

When I was a kid, my parents were laborers, and we were three kids, so we weren't exactly rich, even  if my dad worked in Germany for better money. But I must say we had all we needed, for the material part, because I can really relate with Clinton about having a shitty father...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: LustFilledRunza on 13 Jul 2018, 20:05

Foods That Should Be Banned:


1)  Onions
2)  Raisins
3)  Little Debby Snacks
4)  Pistachios
5)  Onions


 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Jul 2018, 22:30

Foods That Should Be Banned:


1)  Onions
2)  Raisins
3)  Little Debby Snacks
4)  Pistachios
5)  Onions
HANDS OFF MY WALLA WALLA SWEETS, YOU UNCONSTITUTIONAL ONION BANNER!!  And leave the pistachios alone, too.  You may tell Little Debby to take the raisins with her and not to let the door hit her on the bum on her way out.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 14 Jul 2018, 01:16
Who the heck is Little Debby?

(I realise I could just google it, but I wanted to post that for effect)

Hands off everything else on that list, you heathen.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 14 Jul 2018, 07:25
"Little Debby" is short for "The Little Lady Who Brings You Diabetes."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Jul 2018, 08:07
Who the heck is Little Debby?

(I realise I could just google it, but I wanted to post that for effect)

Hands off everything else on that list, you heathen.
The mascot of a line of baked goods (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu6eekDEiTE) that make Krispy Kreme doughnuts look like health food.  I don't know why they bother adding preservative chemicals - any microbes present have been suffocated in high fructose corn syrup and partially hydrogenated vegetable oil.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Jul 2018, 08:50
My wife’s favorite sinfully unhealthy snack:

(https://www.littledebbie.com/images/content/cakes_horizontal_swissrolls-7vlrif.png)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Jul 2018, 11:51
My wifes favorite sinfully unhealthy snack:

(https://www.littledebbie.com/images/content/cakes_horizontal_swissrolls-7vlrif.png)

My wife's as well.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: LustFilledRunza on 14 Jul 2018, 13:44

Foods That Should Be Banned:


1)  Onions
2)  Raisins
3)  Little Debby Snacks
4)  Pistachios
5)  Onions
HANDS OFF MY WALLA WALLA SWEETS, YOU UNCONSTITUTIONAL ONION BANNER!!  And leave the pistachios alone, too.  You may tell Little Debby to take the raisins with her and not to let the door hit her on the bum on her way out.


Just wait.  Our day will come.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 14 Jul 2018, 14:03
Behold, the End Times! (https://www.target.com/p/little-debbie-174-raisin-cr-232-me-pies-26-15-oz/-/A-47091141?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&CPNG=PLA_Grocery+Essentials+Shopping&adgroup=SC_Grocery&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9031514&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvqbaBRCOARIsAD9s1XBDun5m0Db5eIN3Z49XO-nai-2OuwmjBNCXk_ryCuxzYmJznZd40PYaApeLEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 14 Jul 2018, 18:12
Little Debbie anything is disgusting. Everything else on that list is amazing.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 14 Jul 2018, 19:41
So, just for stamps, I typed "raisin-filled" into the google search box so that I could see what search suggestions popped up.

There were ten of them. They were all variations on "raisin-filled cookies."

I admit that I am disappoint.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Jul 2018, 00:44
Had a raisin-and-cinnamon bagel on Friday. I loved it but boy, the sticky crust sticks to the inside of your mouth!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 15 Jul 2018, 18:13
....Ughhhh. I saw a thing on Twitter that reminded me of why I prefer media like comics and anime - I can actually figure out what expressions mean due to their exaggerated nature. A case in point: Near as I can tell, that's a grin. You grin when you're happy or confident. If it weren't for the additional context, that's how I'd interpret it. This is one of the reasons I feel I can relate to Brun. I can parse the expressions in media like this comic more easily as an outsider but in the context, I'd probably fuck it up. I don't know if anyone was side-eyeing that or not but..yeah.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 15 Jul 2018, 18:54
....Ughhhh. I saw a thing on Twitter that reminded me of why I prefer media like comics and anime - I can actually figure out what expressions mean due to their exaggerated nature. A case in point:
She got a boob job
She got a what?
A boob job
No!
Yeah!
Put a pad of silicone up against her breastbone
Treat her like a man-made thing


- Keller Williams
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Tova on 15 Jul 2018, 19:21
....Ughhhh. I saw a thing on Twitter that reminded me of why I prefer media like comics and anime - I can actually figure out what expressions mean due to their exaggerated nature. A case in point: Near as I can tell, that's a grin. You grin when you're happy or confident. If it weren't for the additional context, that's how I'd interpret it. This is one of the reasons I feel I can relate to Brun. I can parse the expressions in media like this comic more easily as an outsider but in the context, I'd probably fuck it up. I don't know if anyone was side-eyeing that or not but..yeah.

The lack of wrinkling around that eyes that tends to happen in a genuine smile suggest that this is being put on for the camera. Add in the context, and that's probably what led this person to interpret her expression as uncomfortable.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: oddtail on 17 Jul 2018, 01:17
....Ughhhh. I saw a thing on Twitter that reminded me of why I prefer media like comics and anime - I can actually figure out what expressions mean due to their exaggerated nature. A case in point: Near as I can tell, that's a grin. You grin when you're happy or confident. If it weren't for the additional context, that's how I'd interpret it. This is one of the reasons I feel I can relate to Brun. I can parse the expressions in media like this comic more easily as an outsider but in the context, I'd probably fuck it up. I don't know if anyone was side-eyeing that or not but..yeah.

The lack of wrinkling around that eyes that tends to happen in a genuine smile suggest that this is being put on for the camera. Add in the context, and that's probably what led this person to interpret her expression as uncomfortable.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the INTENDED meaning to convey is "smile", but it's a forced one (the rest of the face isn't smiling, just the mouth). I interpret this expression as uncomfortable, too. Even slightly frightened. But I'm pretty sure that's not the intention.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 17 Jul 2018, 12:29
In Chilean cousine, we use raisins in  salty food specially in stuffing alongside meat, onions, garlic, etc. I love it as an ingredient in that regard and brings out a nice tiny sweet flavour. But in sweet food? Nah, Don't like it.

Perhaps this is a Dutch thing, but I always have raisins in homemade apple pie, which is a great combo with the apples and sliced almonds...

Also good in boboti by the way.

Apart from that I think I also only use them in oatmeal raisin cookies.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: SpanielBear on 17 Jul 2018, 12:37
In Chilean cousine, we use raisins in  salty food specially in stuffing alongside meat, onions, garlic, etc. I love it as an ingredient in that regard and brings out a nice tiny sweet flavour. But in sweet food? Nah, Don't like it.

Perhaps this is a Dutch thing, but I always have raisins in homemade apple pie, which is a great combo with the apples and sliced almonds...

Also good in boboti by the way.

Apart from that I think I also only use them in oatmeal raisin cookies.

Boboti! I only discovered this recently, but it is my favourite comfort food now! If only it didn't take every pan and spice in the kitchen to make properly...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 17 Jul 2018, 21:50
I thot "Boboti" were those prepackaged pizza crusts.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: dna_level_c on 18 Jul 2018, 03:37
I thot "Boboti" were those prepackaged pizza crusts.

No, that's a Bubula.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 3781 - 3785 (9-13 July 2018)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 19 Jul 2018, 18:28
So I told a friend about the raisin discussion here.

She grew up in a part of the US far from raisin producing areas and with poor transportation links. There and then, raisins were really expensive. I think she did have them but a lot of people there were poorer than her.

Having rabbits as a kid put me off raisins.

And I had guinea pigs. I learned very quickly that if you drop a raisin on the floor, you dont pick it up and eat it, cause it probably wont be a raisin.