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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 05 Aug 2018, 08:12

Title: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 05 Aug 2018, 08:12
New week, new poll, new questions.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 05 Aug 2018, 08:19
The shop obviously lacks rocket science.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Aug 2018, 08:58
Flame decals. They're Faye's one true love!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Aug 2018, 09:14
Fighter jet conversions. For humans.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 05 Aug 2018, 11:07
Fighter jet conversions. For humans.

And Roombas.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 05 Aug 2018, 11:19
Fighter jet conversions. For humans.

And Roombas.
They could subcontract Pintsize and Winslow for that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 05 Aug 2018, 11:37
Winslow, in his previous chassis, seems to me to have always been under Pintsize's metaphorical thumb. I think that's not true anymore, but we haven't seen a lot of interaction between them since the re-embodying.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Aug 2018, 20:23
Faye is sharing her vices with a minor.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 05 Aug 2018, 20:30
Union Robotics Child Care: Pintsize approved!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 05 Aug 2018, 20:41
About that Dremel....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 05 Aug 2018, 21:02
Now I'm wondering whose shoulder that ball joint was taken from...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Sorflakne on 05 Aug 2018, 21:46
A dremel for smoothing a ball joint?  Maybe it's just me, but using a dremel for that would be more complicated than using a disk sander.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 05 Aug 2018, 21:53
A dremel for smoothing a ball joint?  Maybe it's just me, but using a dremel for that would be more complicated than using a disk sander.

In the hands of a skilled person, even a concrete saw csn be used for smoothing out a ball joint.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Sullivan on 05 Aug 2018, 23:15
Faye is sharing her vices with a minor.
She really should be sharing her vises.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Aug 2018, 23:19
I think that this is the arc when Faye realises that one of the most stressful jobs in existence is trainer. There is absolutely no upper limit to the stupidity and lack of common sense of novices. This is especially the case when, as I am sure is the case with Sam, they feel that they are being unfairly restricted to 'training wheels' when they know they have the intrinsic skill and ability to use the most complicated tools and technology on their first attempt!

A dremel for smoothing a ball joint?  Maybe it's just me, but using a dremel for that would be more complicated than using a disk sander.

Faye hasn't selected the best tool for the job. She's selected what she believes is the safest tool that she can start Sam on with the objective of one day qualifying to the concrete saw.

There is also a subtle psychological test here. If Sam can stick with working with the dremel without getting bored and wandering off, then she's got the mindset to move on to bigger things. However, if she does fail at this level, then there is no point humouring her desire to work power tools any further.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 05 Aug 2018, 23:56
Now I'm wondering whose shoulder that ball joint was taken from...

May-be we already know...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: VolatileSky on 06 Aug 2018, 00:17
It's fine. She'll learn pretty quick once that thing skips off the work piece, and that even small tools hurt like hell when they hit you at 1k rpm.

Once she moves up to the angle grinder, it'll be a lesson of why you don't wear loose clothing around those. Feels kinda like a trained boxer just wound up and punched you in the gut.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 06 Aug 2018, 02:10
When they were handing out common sense, Sam was out chasing a snake or something.

Honestly, I'm more surprised that Sam still has all her fingers.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 06 Aug 2018, 02:20
When they were handing out common sense, Sam was out chasing a snake or something.

Honestly, I'm more surprised that Sam still has all her fingers.

That's why Faye has been tasked with keeping Sam's structural integrity intact.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 06 Aug 2018, 03:09
old workshop trainer principle: make sure your student is covered in all the safety gear. And because sooner or later they will probably launch whatever they are working on MAKE SURE YOU ARE COVERED DOUBLE FROM ALL SIDES!

In this case: ask Bubbles for a flack-vest.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: at0m on 06 Aug 2018, 06:31
Magical Disappearing Dremel Cord!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 06 Aug 2018, 08:21
when they know they have the intrinsic skill and ability to use the most complicated tools and technology on their first attempt!

While this does happen, more prevalent in my experience is the notion of "I don't want to learn how to use EVERYTHING, just X tool/instrument/software/etc."

I am guilty of this at times, a lot of my weirder mods and projects make use of esoteric tools, and I sometimes skip the starter tools/equipment in favor of skipping to the one I need for the job at hand.  That said, I usually end up wishing I had taken the time to master the tool first.  (Fortunately, the kind of work I do this for actually benefits from a little rough handling)  Right now, I'm having a hard time fighting this urge when I want to pick up a laser cutter or CNC router, because they're expensive as hell, and if I can start with the tool I need, I can save thousands on the ones to train for the one I need.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: rretter on 06 Aug 2018, 10:00
Corded tool.

Corded tool.

Cordless tool.

I wish I could do that with tools when the cord becomes too bothersome... to draw.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 06 Aug 2018, 12:55
Well Dremels do come in a cordless version - I have one - no guts but great for light duty and or impossible to reach places.

At least she is wearing the face sheild and with the dremel grinder bit she will at worst get some nasty abrasions but no loss of digits.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 06 Aug 2018, 13:14
Faye wants to make a point about the right tool.  "Not working very well, is it?  Okay, now try using this."  She may also be more interested in teaching Sam the characteristics of the metal she's working rather than the tool she's working it with.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Akima on 06 Aug 2018, 17:45
Faye is sharing her vices with a minor.
She really should be sharing her vises.
Yes, I was a little surprised to see "vice". That is how I spell the word of course, but I thought the USAnian spelling was "vise".

I'm sure the vanishing cable is just a slip on the artist's part.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 06 Aug 2018, 17:56
The cord is there, it just perfectly follows Sam's outline.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 06 Aug 2018, 21:18
Faye is sharing her vices with a minor.
She really should be sharing her vises.
Yes, I was a little surprised to see "vice". That is how I spell the word of course, but I thought the USAnian spelling was "vise".

It should be vise, but most USAnian's can't spell, either. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Aug 2018, 21:47
All my vices are vises.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Aug 2018, 23:21
New Comic Up!
Oh dear!

Faye committed what is perhaps cardinal sin #1 for people in her position: She left her total novice trainee unattended with a power tool, forgetting the strangely auto-hypnotic effect of spinning machinery on the human mind. Grown adults, fully cognizant of the danger, have lost fingers because they can't resist the urge to insert a finger into whirling parts so why should Sam be any different?

Fortunately, the damage doesn't seem that bad. However, I still can't see how this could come out well for either Faye or Sam. Certainly, Faye is going to lose her 'appropriate adult' categorisation in Jim's mind and Sam may be forbidden from seeing her again. Sam may find herself a lot more strongly supervised in the future: No more hanging out at machinery shops, wandering off into the woods to look for beasties or taking days off school whenever she feels like it for 'independent learning opportunities'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: MrNumbers on 06 Aug 2018, 23:35
My expectation: Bubbles walks over with a first-aid kit, gives Sam a bandaid and maybe some stitches, and then hugs Faye who is trying not to explode in panic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: traroth on 06 Aug 2018, 23:38
Let's try this rule: never, ever, touch the business-end of a power tool with any of your body parts. Especially if the power tool is in use.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: St.Clair on 06 Aug 2018, 23:38
well that was quick.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Aug 2018, 23:56
Well that was an incredibly poor decision by Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Aug 2018, 00:05
Two seconds. Not even two seconds.

Sam is gonna be in huge trouble, and Faye even more so.

Not sure even Bubbles can diffuse this bomb.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: DaiJB on 07 Aug 2018, 00:06
"Other Wonders Not Mentioned Here!":
Upon Winslow's return, he sets up an on-site Robot Counselling Service...

...And regarding today's strip:
Knowing Sam as we do - did anyone else see an incident like this as being totally freaking inevitable?!  :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: traroth on 07 Aug 2018, 00:37
So I get Sam ripped her nail out. Things could be really, really worse!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 00:56
Let's try this rule: never, ever, touch the business-end of a power tool with any of your body parts. Especially if the power tool is in use.

Kinda closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: traroth on 07 Aug 2018, 01:06
Let's try this rule: never, ever, touch the business-end of a power tool with any of your body parts. Especially if the power tool is in use.

Kinda closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, there.

Not really. Like I said, ripping her nail out is far from being the worse that could happen, so Sam should let it be a lesson for the future.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oddtail on 07 Aug 2018, 01:51
OK, so Faye probably (and by "probably" I mean "definitely") should not have left a newbie with a power tool.... but touch your finger to a powered-on, working power tool of any kind? That's some next level lack of imagination and/or stupidity, even for a kid.

Especially literally less than a few seconds after a "can I trust you with this?" question. Granted, it's been a while since I spent much time around kids, but that sounds like something a six-year-old would do, not an otherwise bright (?) teenager.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: MrNumbers on 07 Aug 2018, 02:11
Granted, it's been a while since I spent much time around kids, but that sounds like something a six-year-old would do, not an otherwise bright (?) teenager.

Some kids get dumber as they get older. Sam is one of those because she's getting more confident while staying just as curious. Caution is learned by doing stupid things and getting punished for them. Especially dumb teenagers result from a short lifetime of stupidity without consequence.

You start life with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The goal is to try to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck runs out.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Aug 2018, 02:51
I highlighted Faye for a reason.

I have worked for over seven years with teenagers older than Sam and I can assure you that people much 'maturer' than her have made decisions this poor and worse no matter how much warning is given.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Bad Superman on 07 Aug 2018, 02:51
You start life with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The goal is to try to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck runs out.

I will totally steal this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oddtail on 07 Aug 2018, 03:07
Granted, it's been a while since I spent much time around kids, but that sounds like something a six-year-old would do, not an otherwise bright (?) teenager.

Some kids get dumber as they get older. Sam is one of those because she's getting more confident while staying just as curious. Caution is learned by doing stupid things and getting punished for them. Especially dumb teenagers result from a short lifetime of stupidity without consequence.

You start life with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The goal is to try to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck runs out.

...I mean, I guess? I just expected her to be smarter than this, for some reason. That's a tool designed to destroy materials much tougher than squishy human flesh. That needs to command respect. My father told me repeatedly, over and over, how dangerous power tools are since I was a very small kid (granted, I was NOT left unsupervised with those) and that's stuck so deep in my subsconscious that it seems more obvious than breathing, even though I never had even a minor accident involving any of those tools. And even though I don't really use power tools (I don't have a job or any hobbies that require those).

Different life experience, I guess, or I was simply a singularly boring and overly cautious kid/teenager. Come to think of it, I didn't use to get hurt all that much when I was a kid, while my older brother used to always fall off something, cut something, break a limb or whatever. And he wasn't dumb or anything. He just... did a lot of stuff that invited accidents.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 07 Aug 2018, 03:29
Sam gets frigging sword fighting classes. You might expect her to be aware of the dangers of ... tools, not even powered ones.

But still, technically, she has all her fingers. Nobody said anything about missing fingernails. And think about the crap her classmates will give her for losing a fingernail to a power tool. Yes, kids are that cruel.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2018, 03:34
Sam gets frigging sword fighting classes. You might expect her to be aware of the dangers of ... tools, not even powered ones.

It's surprising just how much the key phrase 'what would happen if...?' can dull and even block what ought to be obvious associational common sense! Sam is pretty wild anyway; the first thing her tutor at sword-fighting class likely had to do was teach her to respect her weapon and understand that 'dangerous' is something that can affect her personally.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: swapna on 07 Aug 2018, 04:21
"Other Wonders Not Mentioned Here!":
Upon Winslow's return, he sets up an on-site Robot Counselling Service...

...And regarding today's strip:
Knowing Sam as we do - did anyone else see an incident like this as being totally freaking inevitable?!  :roll:
Pretty much. I mean, Sam's not dumb but overconfident and she hasn't felt the consequences of her actions yet. So, maybe that's a start? And Faye should stop indulging her - Sam's not an apprentice, she's not insured and Faye can be held responsible for stuff that goes on in her shop. Sam's still a child in many ways and should be treated as such.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 04:33
Just because Sam is smart, doesn't mean she's wise.

She's easily distracted and not particularly attentive, which combined with a power tool was always going to spell trouble.

Then again, I went to school with a guy who stabbed himself in the eye with a compass because he forgot it was in his hand. So the lesson here is, teens are idiots and if left to their own devices, will likely accidentally remove themselves from the genepool.
Title: Move this to current WCDT
Post by: Nycticoraci on 07 Aug 2018, 05:12
Ugh, not the way to learn never to touch a dremel bit :/
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: jmucchiello on 07 Aug 2018, 05:38
There has to be a sign in the background at some point:
We have proudly worked __0__ days accident free.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 07 Aug 2018, 05:54
I mean the chances are pretty high that at some point working with tools you're gonna get bit. All the caution and protective measures are there to a) minimize the chances and b) reduce the severity of injury. That said, deliberately touching the danger bits of an operating tool is just dumb... and entirely on-brand for Sam. The sad truth is there are plenty of people out there you just can't warn enough. Until they do a stupid thing and get hurt, the warnings just won't seem real. And unfortunately Sam's curiosity has a tendency to outpace her self preservation instincts. At least now she knows 'don't touch running tools'. Hopefully.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 07 Aug 2018, 06:21
I was about to reply that we're all overreacting and that a band-aid and some discretion from Sam will probably prevent this from becoming much of an issue.  Jim's used to her getting covered in snake bites and such, is this that much worse?

Then I remember who Sam is.  She's going to basically stick this under Jim's nose and be all "Look at how gross it is!"

*sigh*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: zisraelsen on 07 Aug 2018, 06:24
Poor Sam. Ripping off a fingernail doesn't even leave any nifty scars to show off.
If Jim forbids Sam from working at Union Robotics because of this, he'll be making a mistake. Forbidding your kid to practice a marketable skill she's passionate about because of a superficial injury is cowardly. If my parents had done so the first time I needed stitches, I wouldn't be studying mechanical engineering right now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 06:39
Poor Sam. Ripping off a fingernail doesn't even leave any nifty scars to show off.
If Jim forbids Sam from working at Union Robotics because of this, he'll be making a mistake. Forbidding your kid to practice a marketable skill she's passionate about because of a superficial injury is cowardly. If my parents had done so the first time I needed stitches, I wouldn't be studying mechanical engineering right now.

It won't be a case of Jim forbidding Sam to going to Union Robotics, it'll be the "what the hell" he levels at Faye. It might be a ripped off fingernail, but its also an injury that occured in the workplace. We don't know what the insurance policy is for UR, so that's a whole mess of potential trouble right there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 07 Aug 2018, 06:54
The worst part of all this is Corpse Witch was right.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 07 Aug 2018, 07:06
When they were handing out common sense, Sam was out chasing a snake or something.

Honestly, I'm more surprised that Sam still has all her fingers.

Your magic 8 ball was spot on.... :D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Aug 2018, 08:10
Why would you leave Sam alone with power tools, Faye? You can hold it.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 07 Aug 2018, 08:21
Looking at what happened and thinking back to my cousins training as a master machinist I think I know where it all went wrong.
No power tools until you know what you are doing.
Just give her a set of metal files and make her wear gloves to start.
If there is any balking then show them the uber gross "accidents in the machine shop first aid video".

NOTE: My cousins school only allowed files, a hammer and a hacksaw for metal work for the first three years of apprenticeship training before anyone was allowed near any equipment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2018, 08:22
Poor Sam. Ripping off a fingernail doesn't even leave any nifty scars to show off.
If Jim forbids Sam from working at Union Robotics because of this, he'll be making a mistake. Forbidding your kid to practice a marketable skill she's passionate about because of a superficial injury is cowardly. If my parents had done so the first time I needed stitches, I wouldn't be studying mechanical engineering right now.

I do get the impression that although it would be excruciatingly nerve-wracking, the way Sam needs to be raised is the calculated risk approach.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2018, 08:23
Faye is sharing her vices with a minor.
She really should be sharing her vises.
Yes, I was a little surprised to see "vice". That is how I spell the word of course, but I thought the USAnian spelling was "vise".

I'm sure the vanishing cable is just a slip on the artist's part.

Was there any other way to make the pun in print?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 07 Aug 2018, 08:59
Poor Sam. Ripping off a fingernail doesn't even leave any nifty scars to show off.
If Jim forbids Sam from working at Union Robotics because of this, he'll be making a mistake. Forbidding your kid to practice a marketable skill she's passionate about because of a superficial injury is cowardly. If my parents had done so the first time I needed stitches, I wouldn't be studying mechanical engineering right now.

I do get the impression that although it would be excruciatingly nerve-wracking, the way Sam needs to be raised is the calculated risk approach.

Calculated risk and damage control.


The worst part of all this is Corpse Witch was right.
[/quote
Help me out a little... I can't remember context
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: SpanielBear on 07 Aug 2018, 10:36
This... is pretty much game over, no?

Sam is underage, unsupervised, untrained, was given the tool by Faye with insufficient instruction and the consequence is a major trauma, possibly life-changing injury if the wound becomes infected.

The shop needs to be closed down, and Faye needs to face criminal proceedings and fines at the very least. Jim'll almost certainly bring a civil action case against her too.

And to cap it all off, she's dragged Bubbles into this because she's joint partner and shares liability.

God dammit! I mean it's realistic but I was hoping for more romantic shenanigans not another chapter of "Watch Faye's life disintegrate".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Bollthorn on 07 Aug 2018, 10:43
Fuck sake Faye! She shouldn't be letting an underage child loose in a workshop to begin with! And everything was going so well! Now she's gonna be up shit creek without a paddle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 07 Aug 2018, 11:23
I’ve been reading QC long enough to think it unlikely that Jeph would write an arc where armies of lawyers converge on Union Robotics to shut it down.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 11:29
No, but I could see Jeph writing an arc where Jim's "What were you thinking" speech leaves Faye somewhat shaken. And let's be honest, in the past when Faye was shaken, she used to reach for something. And I'm not talking about Bubbles.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 07 Aug 2018, 11:36
Poor Sam. Ripping off a fingernail doesn't even leave any nifty scars to show off.
If Jim forbids Sam from working at Union Robotics because of this, he'll be making a mistake. Forbidding your kid to practice a marketable skill she's passionate about because of a superficial injury is cowardly. If my parents had done so the first time I needed stitches, I wouldn't be studying mechanical engineering right now.

I do get the impression that although it would be excruciatingly nerve-wracking, the way Sam needs to be raised is the calculated risk approach.

Calculated risk and damage control.

The worst part of all this is Corpse Witch was right.
Help me out a little... I can't remember context

Faye asked Corpse Witch if she’d be fired for inviting Sam to her workplace and she replied “out of a canon.”

She’d definitely be gloating over this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: nicodb on 07 Aug 2018, 13:04
I remember one time I tried stopping a running belt sander with my bare hand. And the result was ugly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 07 Aug 2018, 14:48
Yep, at the very least, Faye's going to be in for a dressing down from Jim for endangering his daughter, since he WILL freak out upon seeing the bloody and messy aftermath of today's hijinks. Snakebites are one thing, but that could have been Sam's entire finger gone. It may still be, if the wound gets infected.

Worse case scenario of course is Sam being banned from the shop, Union Robotics getting sued right out of business, and Faye possibly bought up on negligence charges. Let's hope Jeph doesn't go that far, but realistically there should be some blowback on Faye for this; she's the silly adult who left an even sillier child not her own alone with a running power tool. People and organizations have been sued into destitution over much less.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 07 Aug 2018, 14:51
I did once grab the handle of a skillet that had been removed from the oven, forgetting I'd taken off my oven mitt in the meantime.

Yeah, I wish I could use the excuse that I was Sam's age when I did it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 07 Aug 2018, 16:43
This... is pretty much game over, no?

Sam is underage, unsupervised, untrained, was given the tool by Faye with insufficient instruction and the consequence is a major trauma, possibly life-changing injury if the wound becomes infected.

The shop needs to be closed down, and Faye needs to face criminal proceedings and fines at the very least. Jim'll almost certainly bring a civil action case against her too.

And to cap it all off, she's dragged Bubbles into this because she's joint partner and shares liability.

God dammit! I mean it's realistic but I was hoping for more romantic shenanigans not another chapter of "Watch Faye's life disintegrate".

Aside from Jim being disappointed and maybe Veronica using some of her dominatrix skills I doubt this is going to go all the way to city hall and even if it did Bubbles and Faye's legal troubles would go away because either Spookybot would pay the hapless bureaucrat a visit, or Hannelore would call her Dad and deploy his legal team, or a completely new character would rescue them.  I call him HAL Goodman and he's an AI attorney. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Aug 2018, 16:47
Pretty much. I mean, Sam's not dumb but overconfident and she hasn't felt the consequences of her actions yet. So, maybe that's a start? And Faye should stop indulging her - Sam's not an apprentice, she's not insured and Faye can be held responsible for stuff that goes on in her shop. Sam's still a child in many ways and should be treated as such.
[/quote]

This. Sam gets indulged way too much by Faye. Sams maturity is that of a childs (Fayes isn't that much better) and Faye decides to leave her in charge of a power tool?

Sam needs some discipline and Faye needs to take her head out of her butt because the blowback on this could spell the end of the business and massive debts incurred for both herself and for Bubbles (probably won't of course) but this was, sadly, inevitable given the personalities of all involved
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 07 Aug 2018, 16:59
Faye is much more attracted to the idea of regressing to her childhood in a way when with Sam than she is in taking on a supervisory adult role.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Aug 2018, 17:48
I  think we're being kinda rough on Faye here. After all, the little larva was able to learn to use a  blowtorch   (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176/)and sharpen knives and make a  sword  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2463/)without maiming herself. It seems reasonable she'd be able to use a dremel.


Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 07 Aug 2018, 17:48
Hmm... yesterday I was tempted to joke that only wusses clamp their work instead of freehanding it, and today I was gonna joke "suck it up kid, it's just a fingernail".

Maybe I shouldn't be allowed to use power tools, or have children.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 07 Aug 2018, 17:54
I  think we're being kinda rough on Faye here. After all, the little larva was able to learn to use a  blowtorch   (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176/)and sharpen knives and make a  sword  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2463/)without maiming herself. It seems reasonable she'd be able to use a dremel.

That maybe but Faye is, whether she likes it or not, In Loco Parentis of Sam so its on her to make sure Sam doesn't hurt herself

However those links did show that Faye has been indulging Sam for quite a while now
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2018, 17:58
A lawsuit would be irrational unless the parts inventory is valuable. Otherwise Faye and Bubbles are judgement-proof.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 07 Aug 2018, 18:05
I  think we're being kinda rough on Faye here. After all, the little larva was able to learn to use a  blowtorch   (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176/)and sharpen knives and make a  sword  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2463/)without maiming herself. It seems reasonable she'd be able to use a dremel.

Unfortunately, this time she did maim herself, she lost a fingernail - the whole nail. Not as serious as losing a finger, but still bloody and painful. Her dad started to berate Faye just about the blowtorch and using knives (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2180) before being distracted by some liquor, but this time is worse, this time she got hurt, and I don't think giving him an "old-fashioned" will help this time.

Now personally if I were Jim, I'd look at Sam with her aching bandaged finger and ask "And what did we learn today?" If her answer was something along the lines of "Don't stick your finger in a power tool's moving parts." then I'd let her go back to the shop. Otherwise, I'd forbid it on the grounds of her being too likely to Darwin herself into an early grave.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 18:16
I  think we're being kinda rough on Faye here. After all, the little larva was able to learn to use a  blowtorch   (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176/)and sharpen knives and make a  sword  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2463/)without maiming herself. It seems reasonable she'd be able to use a dremel.

That maybe but Faye is, whether she likes it or not, In Loco Parentis of Sam so its on her to make sure Sam doesn't hurt herself

However those links did show that Faye has been indulging Sam for quite a while now

I have to agree with Chris here. Faye has been a friend to Sam, and there is nothing wrong with that. But in a professional setting, where there are tools and devices that could seriously injure, maim or even kill, Faye needs to stop being a friend and start being a responsible adult.

I've said before that Sam is a smart kid, but she hasn't got one iota of common sense. In fact, she's a bit of a dumbass. Faye should have known that, in fact when Sam first went into the workshop, she hadn't been in there for thirty seconds before getting herself caught in a (thankfully inactive) saw/drill unit. That should have sent warning alarms off in Faye's head. Hell, yesterday's comic should have had Faye age about ten years when Sam was going to try and dremel a piece without putting it into a vise first.

The fact remains that Faye ended up giving Sam barely even the bare minimum of protection. At the very least, Sam should have been wearing work gloves.

In the end, Faye should have been the responsible adult and didn't quite make it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2018, 18:37
Sam has two parents again, and one of them is psychologically savvy. I wonder what her take would be.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2018, 18:52
Comic's up.

And it was definitely most of the nail taken.

I'd say Sam should bite the bullet and tell her father the truth, but with that kid, she'd probably lose a couple of teeth.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 07 Aug 2018, 19:17
Bubbles is so good with Sam. Now I'm imagining how good she'll be when her and Faye have kids one day. <3
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: fayelovesbubbles on 07 Aug 2018, 19:23
Jim will be mad, for sure, but I like to think he won't yell at Faye.

I think this is Faye's wake up call to stop acting like Sam's big sister and start acting a little more like the adult in charge of her safety while she's in the shop.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 07 Aug 2018, 19:32
I  think we're being kinda rough on Faye here. After all, the little larva was able to learn to use a  blowtorch   (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2176/)and sharpen knives and make a  sword  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2463/)without maiming herself. It seems reasonable she'd be able to use a dremel.

I do agree with the gist of what you are saying. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, and it's telling that this clamour of disapproval of Faye's actions has come after an accident and not in response to any of Faye's previous behaviour.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2018, 20:10
Bubbles is showing Leadership Qualities again. I wonder what her rank was.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 07 Aug 2018, 20:12
Faye probably SHOULD get into some shit for this, but there is the basic issue of 'Dad keeps letting kid hang around forge, swords and machine shop.' There IS some shared blame to go around....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Bad Superman on 07 Aug 2018, 20:59
At this point I want Faye (and Sam) to face some consequences. Not losing the shop of course, but definitely more than just a weak slap on the fingers. Perhaps a serious talk from her business partner, who expresses her disappointment about how Faye acted today and the danger she put a minor and their fledging business in, would suffice…

Of course this could cause a small rift between them, as has been foreshadowed by Doras flashback…
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tyr on 07 Aug 2018, 21:12
The only way I see Faye avoiding any wrath? SHE bans Sam from the shop, and maybe adds some time to the end for even thinking of hiding this from her father. Sam's dad trusted Faye with his kid, and yeah, Faye maybe shouldn't have walked away... but as others have mentioned, She supervised with the blowtorch, she supervised with the knifecraft, and made a calculated decision to Allow Sam to keep working while she took care of a biological function. It was NOT unreasonable to assume that Sam would know better than apply a rotary tool that can shave metal to her soft, organic hide in any form. The only missteps here was not asking Bubbles to watch, and waiting for Bubbles to turn around or enter the room. 

Quote
..assume..
In before someone mentions "When you assume you make an ass out of u and me. "

 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 07 Aug 2018, 21:56
Bubbles is showing Leadership Qualities again. I wonder what her rank was.

While I'd like to think attitudes are progressive enough for Bubbles to be an officer all things considered she might've been at most a sergeant. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 07 Aug 2018, 21:58
Now personally if I were Jim, I'd look at Sam with her aching bandaged finger and ask "And what did we learn today?" If her answer was something along the lines of "Don't stick your finger in a power tool's moving parts." then I'd let her go back to the shop. Otherwise, I'd forbid it on the grounds of her being too likely to Darwin herself into an early grave.

I can see Jim both be maf or just go with "well, it's your own fault, deal with it".


The fact remains that Faye ended up giving Sam barely even the bare minimum of protection. At the very least, Sam should have been wearing work gloves. 

Question is, whether that would have mattered. It was a deliberate choice of Sam to try grinding down her finger nail with a dremel, not a negligent accident. Maybe she wouldn't have had the idea while unable to see her nail, maybe she would.


The way I see it, Bubbles is dressing the wound quite professionally, which means Jim would suspect the injury to come from UR anyway. Also, I think Faye would crack sooner or later ajd tell him the truth.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 07 Aug 2018, 22:39
Jim's business involves industrial mixers that can break an arm - a boobooed fingernail isn't going to look all that impressive to him.

Dremels don't do things suddenly.  I, personally, kept my eye on the tool - specifically the bit that was doing the work.  I wasn't paying attention to the knurled chuck that held the bit as it abraded away a square quarter inch of the hide off my knuckle.  Ow. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 07 Aug 2018, 23:20
Jim's business involves industrial mixers that can break an arm - a boobooed fingernail isn't going to look all that impressive to him.

It's different when it's your kid.  My wife was training to be a PA and had done an ER tour, seeing the working end of several bloody messes.  When our 3 year old daughter bonked her head and it was bleeding, I held her for a bit to calm her before bandaging it up.  My wife came home and saw the blood on the shoulder of my shirt after I'd told her about it, and she nearly puked. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2018, 23:29
The thing that strikes me most strongly in response to today's strip is Sam's reaction to the idea of Jim banning her from seeing Faye. It occurs to me that we've never seen Sam with friends of her own age, only with adults (although, in Faye's case, an adult who can act Sam's age if she wants to). I'm beginning to wonder if Faye is Sam's only close friend and that is the only reason she keeps turning up. That's something that I think Jim needs to start thinking about because, combined with her preference for 'independent learning' it might indicate that she is having pretty serious problems at school.

Meanwhile, Faye's lack of reaction to 'I thought it would be funny to trim my nails' with a power tool, suggests that this is a mad thought that passed through her mind on occasion. She can't be mad at Sam about an impulse that she's had to physically fight off on occasion! :-P

Here's a thought: Maybe Veronica will be more focussed on responding to this incident. Jim has had Sam come home with bumps, scrapes and cuts (I bet she's had more Tetanus shots than most at this point) so many times that he's developed a sort of immunity to the experience. Veronica will probably be less inured to the experience!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 08 Aug 2018, 00:41
Losing a fingernail in a workshop is pretty much part of the basic training program, I would say.

Weather it is by hitting yourself with a hammer, or trying something like trimming your nails on a grinder does not matter much. Some things you learn from what other tell you, and some things you just need to experience. Fingernails grow back, split fingertips heal, splinters can be dug out. Just don't lose an eye!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 08 Aug 2018, 00:55
Sam gets frigging sword fighting classes. You might expect her to be aware of the dangers of ... tools, not even powered ones.

But still, technically, she has all her fingers. Nobody said anything about missing fingernails. And think about the crap her classmates will give her for losing a fingernail to a power tool. Yes, kids are that cruel.

Depends how it's spun.

"YEah, I totally took my nail off with a POWER TOOL! Naaahhh - didn't hurt at all! Look, didn't even need any stitches - THAT'S how bad-ass *I* am!"

...etc.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Vurogj on 08 Aug 2018, 01:11
Something else to bear in mind before people start raining lawyers on Faye and Bubbles. Dora's name is also on the lease. I don't know enough about US law to know if she'd be liable for something that happened on a business premises she's a guarantor for, but I don't see Jeph going anywhere near that far.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 08 Aug 2018, 02:21
Faye was incredibly stupid and needs to be called on it, but surely some blame has to go to Jim here. Whatever the legal situation, morally you don't get to just let your teenage daughter run around imposing herself on other people. Has he ever even visited the shop?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BlueFatima on 08 Aug 2018, 06:04
Jim's business involves industrial mixers that can break an arm - a boobooed fingernail isn't going to look all that impressive to him.

It's different when it's your kid.  My wife was training to be a PA and had done an ER tour, seeing the working end of several bloody messes.  When our 3 year old daughter bonked her head and it was bleeding, I held her for a bit to calm her before bandaging it up.  My wife came home and saw the blood on the shoulder of my shirt after I'd told her about it, and she nearly puked.

I assume your daughter is your first? I promise you that by the time she's Sam's age, most things upsetting, gross and horrifying will have desensitized you and your wife. If you have more kids or spend time around a number of her friends (which can happen more when you have an only), all the more so. I remember freaking out and taking my kid to the hospital a black eye at 2 (it was scary swelling up so fast). Now, when she injures herself like that, it's like "Again?" And it's a list of check the injury, ice, ibuprofen, etc... Meanwhile, I get a few more grey hairs.  :lol:

My kiddo's 9, and I can't imagine suing anyone over her losing a nail. I may not trust her to alone again with that person at her current age, but if she was a young teenager I may actually chalk it more up as a life lesson than blame the adult in charge. Kids cannot be bubble wrapped forever. I've nicked myself with Dremel before, and I managed to slice off the tip of my index finger through the nail twice with an Xacto knife. Those kinds are injuries happen all the time.

Sam, however, does have impulse issues a little greater than other kids her age. I do agree with everyone that Faye should never have left her alone. She should have asked Bubbles to watch Sam until she was done in the bathroom. Close supervision is a given with any beginners who use power tools (even sewing machines) for the first time. Sam also probably should have had gloves on (though I find them cumbersome for something as little as a Dremel).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 08 Aug 2018, 06:42
Losing a fingernail in a workshop is pretty much part of the basic training program, I would say.

Weather it is by hitting yourself with a hammer, or trying something like trimming your nails on a grinder does not matter much. Some things you learn from what other tell you, and some things you just need to experience. Fingernails grow back, split fingertips heal, splinters can be dug out. Just don't lose an eye!

Yeah, but Sam still shouldn't be there. I don't know how old she is, but I can't imagine she's 15. She shouldn't have been left to operate a piece of equipment unsupervised.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 08 Aug 2018, 06:59
I'm frankly surprised how many people are freaking out that Faye took her eyes off of Sam for a second.  A) She's proven herself a capable worker when handling dangerous tools.  B) It is unreasonable to assume that an apprentice should be under 100% supervision at all times while working.  C) We now know that Sam made a conscious choice to do a dumb thing in a manner that Faye hasn't seen before (i.e. the willingness to knowingly put her body at risk, not just accidentally)

I think back to shop class, and working in my parents shop, and Appalachia Service Project (think Habitat for Humanity with church kids), etc. and how many times I was unsupervised with power tools.  I was also an accident-prone kid.  I once severed the tendon in my thumb with a Leatherman knife because I was trying to cut cable ties with it, a knife my grandfather had given me, and it slipped.  My parents never blamed anyone but me for the damage (and rightly so).  I had handled knives before, even did a report on knife safety, so it was a conscious level of stupidity, similar to Sam trying to trim her nails with a dremel.

Nails grow back, Jim may freak out a little and it'll cause drama, but it's not enough to shut a company down.  Maaaaybe small claims court for the medical costs of a box of band-aides, and a small consideration for emotional trauma, if he really wanted to be a hard-ass about it.  I can't even imagine a way (short of infection) for Sam to lose a finger with a grinding bit.  It would take a while to abrade your finger off.  Plus, Sam has clearly learned that she is, in fact, destructible.  I'd say that a grounding from the shop for a while (I like the extension due to considering lying to her dad) coming from both sides (Faye and Jim) should do enough for the lesson to sink in.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 08 Aug 2018, 07:37
It occurs to me to wonder why Faye didn't ask Bubbles to keep an eye on Sam while she took her bathroom break. Bubbles can't have been too far away. (Granted, she may have been otherwise occupied.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Aug 2018, 08:04
The issue is that Faye simply didn't imagine that she needed to ask someone to watch Sam whilst she was not doing so. That's a mistake that I doubt that she'll make again, at least not for a long time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 08 Aug 2018, 08:58
The issue is that Faye simply didn't imagine that she needed to ask someone to watch Sam whilst she was not doing so.

That is, of course, the main point, My (admittedly subsidiary) point is that the presence of Bubbles should have reduced the likelihood of Faye making that mistake.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: alc40 on 08 Aug 2018, 09:12
I don't know how old she is, but I can't imagine she's 15. She shouldn't have been left to operate a piece of equipment unsupervised.
She was 14 about 600 comics ago (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3161) so she may be 15 now.

She does often seem younger than that to me too, but I'm not around teenagers very often so I may not have a good sense of how mature most 14- or 15-year-olds are.  And of course there's a lot of individual variation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 08 Aug 2018, 09:33
I was talking more about the post before mine saying its a training experience, as in Sam being too young to have that kind of training experience. In fact most apprenticeships that work with such tools require the apprentice to be at least 16.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: wlewisiii on 08 Aug 2018, 10:06
Bubbles is showing Leadership Qualities again. I wonder what her rank was.

Senior NCO, at least. If an officer, she was an NCO before going to Officer Candidate School. There is a certain style to the leadership of people with practical experience at the lower levels that butterbars and even Captains rarely have.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BlueFatima on 08 Aug 2018, 11:06
It occurs to me to wonder why Faye didn't ask Bubbles to keep an eye on Sam while she took her bathroom break. Bubbles can't have been too far away. (Granted, she may have been otherwise occupied.)

Or she could have told Sam to wait to start until she came back. Sam is impulsive, but strikes me as mature enough to pay attention when an adult specifically asks her to do (or not to do) something—especially someone like Faye who she really looks up to. In fact, if Faye had mentioned not ever to touch power tools in motion, this could have been prevented...but it's really easy to assume a child (especially an older one) has the same level of knowledge and common sense. It's a very easy rookie mistake to make if you haven't had a lot of experience watching kids.

Truthfully? Sam wasn't totally off. Dremel actually has a kit to trim pet nails, and I believe some people may use them for manicures, too, but those are totally with different attachments/and speed settings.

And I've actually held things in my hand before while using my Dremel—never metal things, though. The sparks alone can burn you, and the pressure on them is too high to hold onto.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Inconsequential on 08 Aug 2018, 12:01
Someone earlier mentioned gloves -- you NEVER wear gloves around rotating machinery.

Jim won't freak out or call a lawyer. Sam's taking a sword class, and Faye has been teaching Sam about dangerous stuff for a while now. He will not be shocked, upset, or the least bit surprised at this minor injury. Probably been expecting worse. He's a baker and he's seen much worse. It'll be a teachable moment all around. She's learned something valuable at a rather low cost, to be honest.

I was doing all kinds of potentially dangerous stuff at that age, and my parents would have never even thought to blame the people teaching me.

Sam probably won't be able to operate machinery until it's healed, and that will take a while. She can still do sprays, though.

I mean, the finger is still attached, so technically Faye's promise to send Sam home with all her fingers attached has been kept...

And of course Bubbles has a complete database on battlefield trauma and treatment... bandaging a ripped-out fingernail is trivial.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Aug 2018, 13:56
I'm frankly surprised how many people are freaking out that Faye took her eyes off of Sam for a second.  A) She's proven herself a capable worker when handling dangerous tools.  B) It is unreasonable to assume that an apprentice should be under 100% supervision at all times while working.  C) We now know that Sam made a conscious choice to do a dumb thing in a manner that Faye hasn't seen before (i.e. the willingness to knowingly put her body at risk, not just accidentally)

I think back to shop class, and working in my parents shop, and Appalachia Service Project (think Habitat for Humanity with church kids), etc. and how many times I was unsupervised with power tools.  I was also an accident-prone kid.  I once severed the tendon in my thumb with a Leatherman knife because I was trying to cut cable ties with it, a knife my grandfather had given me, and it slipped.  My parents never blamed anyone but me for the damage (and rightly so).  I had handled knives before, even did a report on knife safety, so it was a conscious level of stupidity, similar to Sam trying to trim her nails with a dremel.

Nails grow back, Jim may freak out a little and it'll cause drama, but it's not enough to shut a company down.  Maaaaybe small claims court for the medical costs of a box of band-aides, and a small consideration for emotional trauma, if he really wanted to be a hard-ass about it.  I can't even imagine a way (short of infection) for Sam to lose a finger with a grinding bit.  It would take a while to abrade your finger off.  Plus, Sam has clearly learned that she is, in fact, destructible.  I'd say that a grounding from the shop for a while (I like the extension due to considering lying to her dad) coming from both sides (Faye and Jim) should do enough for the lesson to sink in.

I disagree with you, and your parents. I don't really want to go further with that point because it's an ideological difference, and I'd be simply discussing rather than criticising, but you'd have a job managing to keep that topic going.

I have to say that I can't imagine Jeph as a writer really making legal action the next plot point here. To be honest I don't think it's very interesting.

edit: Now that I think about it, surely what Faye has done here is massively illegal? Especially in the US? Over here you could get away with 16 (I've worked with young people with power tools there) but they still need a parental consent form up to 18 to do anything like Sam is doing. I'm even talking about child endangerment or anything, I just mean Health and Safety.

And she sure as shit ain't covered by any apprenticeship laws unless we had a lovely time jump where we missed them doing a shitload of paperwork with the local authority!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 08 Aug 2018, 14:53
I lost a nail at school once during a production of A Christmas Carol I think, my parents probably didn't even bat an eye. I was an "active" kid much like Sam and was a regular at the emergency room.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 08 Aug 2018, 15:21
My kiddo's 9, and I can't imagine suing anyone over her losing a nail. I may not trust her to alone again with that person at her current age, but if she was a young teenager I may actually chalk it more up as a life lesson than blame the adult in charge. Kids cannot be bubble wrapped forever...

Unfortunately keeping your kids bubble-wrapped as long as possible is considered good parenting in many quarters these days, especially in light of things like school shootings and what not.  Never mind that it tends to produce young adults who can barely do anything for themselves, kids must be kept totally safe at all costs or you're a terrible parent! Yes the last part of that sentence was sarcasm - it's not possible to keep your kids totally safe at all times, no matter how much you may want to.

Anyway, I forgot that Jim's living with (married to?) Marten's mom Veronica these days. All things considered, he may be more chill about this than many of us think he will be, but perhaps Veronica won't be! Maybe she'll be the one who freaks out over Sam's injury and gets up in Faye's face about it. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how the rest of the week's strips play out...

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Y on 08 Aug 2018, 16:06
I remember putting my nail to as well to a device that spins, it was funny because it made different sounds then, but nothing was damaged.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Aug 2018, 16:11
Note: I am pretty passionate about this particular topic, and many topics, and realise this can come across as aggression. I just really, really love discussion, and challenging my own attitudes through talking to people I disagree with. None of the below is intended aggressively, I'm just enthusiastic to discuss it, all is in good faith!

How many of the people here referring to what is and isn't good parenting are parents themselves, or have ever been responsible for the care of teenagers?

I don't think you understand how negligence works in this context, or at the very least, how the law tends to say it works, regardless of whether you share the law's opinion.

The point here is not 'when I was a kid I was left unsupervised and didn't die, nowadays kids need to be wrapped in bubblewrap.' The point here is that you were lucky. And 99.9% of people are lucky. And 0.1% of people are the 14 year old kid, left unsupervised by a 'responsible' adult, be that a teacher, a friend, or a parent, who does get fucking killed by one of these contraptions. That is what the law is there to prevent, because not a single one of those should ever happen.

One thing we do agree on is that it is impossible to keep your kid safe at all times, but there is definitely a middle ground between bubblewrap and not being left in a position where you could have done permanent damage.

This is a forum where attitudes and opinions are frequently challenged, and I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools simply because you guys managed to lose just a nail, rather than a finger or a hand, and presumably your tendon repaired itself, rather than costing you sensation or dexterity in that hand.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 08 Aug 2018, 16:56
'One thing we do agree on is that it is impossible to keep your kid safe at all times, but there is definitely a middle ground between bubblewrap and not being left in a position where you could have done permanent damage.'

I agree and the thing is Sam has shown herself to be someone that doesn't have much common sense (or self preservation, whatever you want to call it) in the last strip she was going to hold the joint rather than use a vice and the first time she was in the shop she somehow ended up sprawled in the machine, running, tripping and falling maybe?

Faye knows what Sam is like and should have taken that into account, Sam has the maturity of...I don't know...a 12 year old at best and is overly-enthusiastic and Faye failed to take this all into account

Faye also seems to want to be Sams friend and co-conspirator and this also encourages Sam to act impulsively (something Sam doesn't need much encouraging in)

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 08 Aug 2018, 17:11
One thing we do agree on is that it is impossible to keep your kid safe at all times, but there is definitely a middle ground between bubblewrap and not being left in a position where you could have done permanent damage.

I also agree about the middle ground. I suspect we will disagree however, on where that middle ground should be. Personally, I think this is an important life lesson for Sam that she may not have learned any other way. Some kids are more hard-headed than others, you can tell them not to do a certain thing that you know will hurt them 'till you're blue in the face, and they'll just think you're stifling their fun. Then the moment your back is turned/you're distracted (and kids can get very good at noticing and taking advantage of those moments) they go do that thing, and get hurt. That pain may well be a better teacher than anything the parent has said. Yes, we don't like to see our kids hurt, but pain can sometimes be a more effective teacher than a hundred lectures.

Yes, Faye should have watched Sam like a hawk and not taken a bathroom break, or gotten Bubbles to watch her. Yes, she should have told Sam not to stick any body parts in a power tool's moving parts, and Sam might actually have listened. On the other hand, her curiosity has a tendency to override her sense of caution (does she even have one, I wonder?), and I suspect that sooner or later it may have lead her to "forget" such safety lectures. Better it happens with a Dremel, where she only loses a fingernail, than with say a metal saw where she loses a finger or worse. She will remember the pain of losing that fingernail, and her fear of being banned from the shop and from Faye, and is more likely to be careful in the future.

As an aside, it's a good thing this girl wasn't born in Australia, or any part of the US where rattlesnakes and their venomous relatives, and/or scorpions, were prevalent. With her curiosity, fearlessness and love of creepy-crawly things, she wouldn't have made it to her third birthday.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 08 Aug 2018, 17:33
I'll take stitched over having a nail ripped off.

It hurts bad enough when I have to trim me in-grown nail. The last time I got stitches I watched the doctor sew them in.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 08 Aug 2018, 17:48
and I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools simply because you guys managed to lose just a nail, rather than a finger or a hand, and presumably your tendon repaired itself, rather than costing you sensation or dexterity in that hand.

To be fair, you're not the only person. I may have not said it in as many words, but I do believe that anyone who is any sort of power tool does need someone with them at all times. Not just because of age, but its just common sense in case there is an accident.

16 years old, my parents had a hedge trimmer. In an attempt to prove how mature and responsible I was (that and there was a party I really wanted to go to), I decided to help my father and give him a break and show some initiative by trimming the hedge in our garden.

What no one told me was how much of a kick there was when the trimmer was activated, which left me reeling and taking a back step and accidentally kicking the power cable up. You can see where I'm going with this right? The cable getting caught by the blades of the trimmer? The blades cutting into the plastic coating and just millimetres away from the metal blades cutting the wires? The only thing that stopped me from getting electrocuted was a fraction of a second in letting go of the trigger.

Everyone here saying that they injured themselves years ago and that they're fine now. Good for you. Now consider the people who aren't fine afterwards and consider for one second that maybe, just maybe, people aren't as lucky as you have been.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 08 Aug 2018, 17:52
The thing that strikes me most strongly in response to today's strip is Sam's reaction to the idea of Jim banning her from seeing Faye. It occurs to me that we've never seen Sam with friends of her own age, only with adults (although, in Faye's case, an adult who can act Sam's age if she wants to). I'm beginning to wonder if Faye is Sam's only close friend and that is the only reason she keeps turning up. That's something that I think Jim needs to start thinking about because, combined with her preference for 'independent learning' it might indicate that she is having pretty serious problems at school.

How boring would it be for Jeph to show us Sam playing with ordinary kids?
Hey, you seem to be forgetting about  Momo.  (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3164) ... But I guess that sorta makes your point.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 08 Aug 2018, 19:19
Strip is up!

All Hail Mommatron!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 08 Aug 2018, 20:01
This is a forum where attitudes and opinions are frequently challenged, and I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools simply because you guys managed to lose just a nail, rather than a finger or a hand, and presumably your tendon repaired itself, rather than costing you sensation or dexterity in that hand.

You're not the only person arguing that, unless your interpretation of the multiple "Faye was stupid" posts is radically different from mine.

Also consider that there are probably people out there who haven't posted that opinion because it seems rather obvious (puts up hand).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Aug 2018, 22:00
Quote from: ThrillHo
I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools

Oh, I think there are others, but there's plenty of room to be baffled about a strain in American culture whose attitude to children is sink-or-swim-they-are-expendable.
------------
On another subject, Leadership Qualities.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: efindumb on 08 Aug 2018, 22:43
Bubbles is showing her military squad leader experience here, even if she doesn't realize it. She turned the fearful Sam into a brave young lady simply by talking with her and showing her that she's stronger than she realizes...

Or maybe I'm looking too much into this and it's simply Sam being sarcastic with Faye being Faye not helping the situation...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 08 Aug 2018, 23:05
The point here is not 'when I was a kid I was left unsupervised and didn't die, nowadays kids need to be wrapped in bubblewrap.' The point here is that you were lucky. And 99.9% of people are lucky. And 0.1% of people are the 14 year old kid, left unsupervised by a 'responsible' adult, be that a teacher, a friend, or a parent, who does get fucking killed by one of these contraptions.

Perhaps I was lucky; I was allowed a huge amount of freedom (considerably more than I allowed my children - or maybe I simply didn't know some things...).

But this was not without context.  It's not that I was just shoved out of the door and told to have fun however I cared to; I was taught about the dangers and warned of possible consequences.  And my relationship with my parents (and I hope my chidren's with me) was such that I respected them, and took what they said seriously - but without it inhibiting my willingness to interact with and learn about the world.  So yes, at age seven I was sent out to cycle into town after dark for choir practice; but when one time my bike was stolen during that practice, I also knew to go to the police station to report it, and so that they could call my parents to fetch me home.

I am trying to contrast this with a tendency I see towards laziness in parenting.  An unwillingness to sufficiently engage with one's children, and intead to restrict them to keep them safe rather than actually helping them learn about the real world and what risk actually is and how to assess it for oneself.

It is because I was allowed, and often encouraged, to push boundaries that I have made that a part of my life, and continue to engage actively with the world in new ways even after retirement.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 08 Aug 2018, 23:26
Jim's business involves industrial mixers that can break an arm - a boobooed fingernail isn't going to look all that impressive to him.

It's different when it's your kid.  My wife was training to be a PA and had done an ER tour, seeing the working end of several bloody messes.  When our 3 year old daughter bonked her head and it was bleeding, I held her for a bit to calm her before bandaging it up.  My wife came home and saw the blood on the shoulder of my shirt after I'd told her about it, and she nearly puked.

I assume your daughter is your first? I promise you that by the time she's Sam's age, most things upsetting, gross and horrifying will have desensitized you and your wife. If you have more kids or spend time around a number of her friends (which can happen more when you have an only), all the more so. I remember freaking out and taking my kid to the hospital a black eye at 2 (it was scary swelling up so fast). Now, when she injures herself like that, it's like "Again?" And it's a list of check the injury, ice, ibuprofen, etc... Meanwhile, I get a few more grey hairs.  :lol:

My kiddo's 9, and I can't imagine suing anyone over her losing a nail. I may not trust her to alone again with that person at her current age, but if she was a young teenager I may actually chalk it more up as a life lesson than blame the adult in charge. Kids cannot be bubble wrapped forever. I've nicked myself with Dremel before, and I managed to slice off the tip of my index finger through the nail twice with an Xacto knife. Those kinds are injuries happen all the time.

Sam, however, does have impulse issues a little greater than other kids her age. I do agree with everyone that Faye should never have left her alone. She should have asked Bubbles to watch Sam until she was done in the bathroom. Close supervision is a given with any beginners who use power tools (even sewing machines) for the first time. Sam also probably should have had gloves on (though I find them cumbersome for something as little as a Dremel).

It was our first kid.  It was also 25 years ago.  Our second child was much more active, and was a "frequent flyer" at the local emergency room.  Somewhere around the age of 5 we started making her tell the nuns (it was a catholic-run hospital) what had happened to her, because most of the time it was so improbable.  Falling off a fire hydrant, slicing her foot open climbing on a pile of shale in flip-flops, the cat slicing the inside of her cheek... this is the kid who got stuck in the shower because she climbed the wall in the corner, and was too scared of falling to get back down. 

Eleven years later, she was the one who came down with thyroid cancer. It triggered an auto-immune response that made the doctors miss the tumor for four months.  The immune response destroyed a large part of her autonomous, sympathetic and reflexive nervous systems before they found the cancer. 

9 years cancer free, but she has a feeding tube and a wheelchair now. 



It hasn't slowed her down, and everyone at the hospital knows her name.  Still a frequent flyer. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Aug 2018, 23:32
We've seen this side to Bubbles before, specifically when she counselled Winslow about how best to deal with May but the politics sort of obscured what Jeph was really saying. What he was saying is that Bubbles does have a strong nurturing and parental side to her. Faye's approach is different but she's just as good with kids in her own way (specifically in directing their play so that dangerous instincts are controlled).

I know this might sound weird but is Jeph taking this in the direction of Faye and Bubbles ultimately adopting a child? Or at least telling us that this is something that they could do and make it work?

Panel 1 really does confirm in my mind that Sam has issues with social interaction of some sort. Interacting with Faye and the AIs at the repair shop seem to be a big thing for her right now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 08 Aug 2018, 23:34
Quote from: ThrillHo
I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools

I don't think you're the only one. The way I read the discussion, though, is that there's  lot of push back against the idea of litigation.

My point of view: it wasn't very wise of Faye to leave her alone. Starting her on a dremwel, where this is about the worst that can happen, with the  safety gear provided, was.

Gloves, and other safety gear don't always help, especially if it doesn't fit right. It's better to have  firm grip on  your tool and not be protected in case it slips, than be protected and virtually sure it will slip.

Incidentally , that might be a good metaphor for parenting as well. It's better to  protective, and give them  clear understanding of risk, and experience in handling it , than just give a set of restrictions , which doesn't build any kind of skill, so they are practically guaranteed to get in trouble later on.

As an aside, all I had when learning to use power tools , was eye protection, and my father's supervision. And not even eye protection for a dremel. I must admit to freehanding most of what I've used  dremel on, even if it's metal.


Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Aug 2018, 00:10
We've seen this side to Bubbles before, specifically when she counselled Winslow about how best to deal with May but the politics sort of obscured what Jeph was really saying. What he was saying is that Bubbles does have a strong nurturing and parental side to her. Faye's approach is different but she's just as good with kids in her own way (specifically in directing their play so that dangerous instincts are controlled).

I know this might sound weird but is Jeph taking this in the direction of Faye and Bubbles ultimately adopting a child? Or at least telling us that this is something that they could do and make it work?

This is a little unusual, but your thinking almost precisely parallels mine here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 09 Aug 2018, 00:55
I think Faye always has been the impulse and impulse control, while Bubbles has been the rational side to everything. That's how their dynamic works. It's why Sam likes Faye, similar impulsiveness, but with the lack of control - and that's why I think Jim lets Sam hang out with Faye and Bubbles. Faye does indulge Sam's impulses, but in a controlled manner. And Bubbles will dial both down in case it's a terrible idea.

I believe Faye was almost as freaked out by the incident as Sam was, but again Bubbles kept a cool head. There's no way Sam can fib how she lost her fingernail and got it bandaged probably professionally, at least not for long.
Bubbles gave Sam a good lesson there, maybe even two. Firstly, she can trust them (they won't "rat her out"), and secondly certain things can't be avoided, and better take care of them on your own terms. (also, it probably will teach Sam how to handle Jim better).


Seems to me I used the word 'Impulse' a lot in my first paragraph here. Looks like I have poor impulse control. Also, is that a raccoon?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: gopher on 09 Aug 2018, 03:35
While I'm not a fan of Faye, I find it hard to find her at fault here. Kids do stupid stuff and a Dremel is barely a power tool.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Akima on 09 Aug 2018, 05:04
Bubbles running officer-qualities.exe there.

"That was the old trick; getting 'em to believe it was their own idea."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Aug 2018, 07:41
Project Bubbles was an experimental program - I doubt very much that the Army would introduce a 'droid officer without first making sure AIs can function as enlisted personnel.  The brass would want to see if an AI would be accepted as a comrade, and then see if the AI emerges as a natural leader.  Only then would formal advancement in rank begin. 

I see her as a junior NCO with both her superiors and peers recognizing that she was functioning at a much higher level, waiting only until time-in-grade requirements had been met before promoting her.

Bubbles was definitely officer material, but it sounds like the program was terminated before she could advance that far.

As for Union Robotics' civil liability - forget it.  The injury isn't going to result in any permanent disability or disfigurement, especially since Sam has probably already acquired enough dings, dents, and scars to preclude her ever pursuing a career as a hand model.  A lost index finger is worth a little over $10K in Massachusetts these days, but that's permanent loss of function.  A finger nail might be worth a couple hundred dollars at the outside.  You'd need to lose at least a joint or two before any attorney is going to take the case on contingency, and I don't see Jim as the sort to go looking for that kind of a payday anyhow.

Now if the state agency that regulates industrial safety catches wind of the incident, they may be in for a bureaucratic heap o' trouble.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 09 Aug 2018, 08:10
Note: I am pretty passionate about this particular topic, and many topics, and realise this can come across as aggression. I just really, really love discussion, and challenging my own attitudes through talking to people I disagree with. None of the below is intended aggressively, I'm just enthusiastic to discuss it, all is in good faith!

How many of the people here referring to what is and isn't good parenting are parents themselves, or have ever been responsible for the care of teenagers?

I don't think you understand how negligence works in this context, or at the very least, how the law tends to say it works, regardless of whether you share the law's opinion.

The point here is not 'when I was a kid I was left unsupervised and didn't die, nowadays kids need to be wrapped in bubblewrap.' The point here is that you were lucky. And 99.9% of people are lucky. And 0.1% of people are the 14 year old kid, left unsupervised by a 'responsible' adult, be that a teacher, a friend, or a parent, who does get fucking killed by one of these contraptions. That is what the law is there to prevent, because not a single one of those should ever happen.

One thing we do agree on is that it is impossible to keep your kid safe at all times, but there is definitely a middle ground between bubblewrap and not being left in a position where you could have done permanent damage.

This is a forum where attitudes and opinions are frequently challenged, and I am frankly baffled that I'm the only person so far arguing in against leaving literal children unsupervised with power tools simply because you guys managed to lose just a nail, rather than a finger or a hand, and presumably your tendon repaired itself, rather than costing you sensation or dexterity in that hand.

Yes it was a lapse of judgement on Faye's part and yes she hold responsibility for the incident however my anecdote was more to say that sometimes it doesn't matter how attentive the adult is some kids will find a way and once that happens it is how everyone reacts (or overreacts) that matters.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Aug 2018, 09:00
I'm going to say that we can be more precise than "unsupervised".

Sam was under orders, then left unattended for minutes, but with a responsible adult nearby who can move very fast.

It was inadequate supervision for someone like Sam. Even that is clearer in hindsight.

Let's see, we can certainly compare Faye's level of care to the balance of productivity, education, and safety that occupational safety law requires. Inarguably she has fallen short.

Should I start a "Free Range Kids" thread in DISCUSS or in RELATE?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 09 Aug 2018, 10:39
Note: I am pretty passionate about this particular topic, and many topics, and realise this can come across as aggression. I just really, really love discussion, and challenging my own attitudes through talking to people I disagree with. None of the below is intended aggressively, I'm just enthusiastic to discuss it, all is in good faith!


I'm actually guessing a lot of these statements have a huge cultural influence in-bedded in them.
I'm quite surprised by the extend of some of the reactions here. Suing someone for this?
In my European country (the Netherlands) that would be unheard of.
There is a large believe in "don't be stupid". And this level of supervision is in general seen as adequate.
Moreover, similar treatments are standard in our education system.
Although i did a mostly academic oriented education, we had quite some basic wood/acrylic work in school; handling of hammers, basic sawing use etc was handled at 10-11. We had some basic training in using machine saws and drills at 14-15 with similar instruction level STANDARD.

To me Sam acts quite extra-ordinarily 'stupid' at this moment - and the consequences are also relatively minor.
Which is partly due to the fact that Faye gave her a relatively 'simple' (certainly compared to what I've dealt with) tool.

I can totally understand if people wouldn't be comfortable to have their kids handling these tools themselves, but to judge this to such an extend seem a bit detached from the wider perspective to me.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Aug 2018, 14:07
I'm quite surprised by the extend of some of the reactions here. Suing someone for this?
In my European country (the Netherlands) that would be unheard of.
Unfortunately, we USAians are an increasingly litigious society and some of our more dubious practices are attorney driven.  (I work for lawyers - some are the most ethical people you will ever meet, but others, well, not so much.)  In addition, we have fifty separate state court systems plus the Federal government and the territories, each with its own twist on rules of evidence and so on.  That makes for plenty of opportunities for court shopping, looking for a venue that tends to return large judgements on certain sorts of cases.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Aug 2018, 17:06
I've started a thread in RELATE about risk tolerance in child rearing in general, and of course the discussion about Sam can continue here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Aug 2018, 18:31
New comic...

... and after reading panel 3, I can't picture Jim's voice as any other but Hank Hill's voice.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: brasca on 09 Aug 2018, 18:42
Strange that Jim wouldn’t have a stronger gag reflex working around food.  Mold and vermin go with the territory.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 09 Aug 2018, 18:45
Some people can handle food grossness, but get queasy at any sort of bodily harm.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BlueFatima on 09 Aug 2018, 18:56
Someone earlier mentioned gloves -- you NEVER wear gloves around rotating machinery.

 

Ahhh... I never thought about it, but it actually makes sense. I have an aunt who lost her upper arm when she was Sam's age. Her sleeve got caught in machinery on my grandpa's farm. It happened so fast!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BlueFatima on 09 Aug 2018, 18:57
Strange that Jim wouldn’t have a stronger gag reflex working around food.  Mold and vermin go with the territory.

Or just being a parent—especially of a child like Sam who is bound to have had many childhood injuries.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: efindumb on 09 Aug 2018, 21:36
Some people can handle food grossness, but get queasy at any sort of bodily harm.

It's the other way around with me, I don't mind bodily injury as I've already experienced the worst of it by nearly losing my arm when I ripped open my bicep climbing over a fence...get me near fish or onions and I can barely contain my stomach.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Aug 2018, 21:57
Panel 5: The moment that Jim remembers just how difficult it is to supervise Sam.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 09 Aug 2018, 22:10
Well, at least Sam owned it up.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Aug 2018, 23:18
There is a lot of depth in this strip if you look. We can see just how deeply Jim cares for Sam; he does the usual male thing of masking it with anger but he's very upset that she's been hurt and nothing is more important to him than her well-being. Then you look at the photo of Sam in front of the Washington Monument and you realise that Jim values and loves her energy and the joy she finds in life. Then you see panels 4 to 6 and how he reacts to her confession and tears; he knows when she is being sincere.

Jim's job means that he doesn't spend enough time with Sam (certainly not as much as he would like) but he genuinely wants to do the right thing by her. I think he realises that, for a personality like Sam's, that might not be the obvious thing.

Finally, I find myself wondering just what was that previous incident to which Sam refers to in panel 6.

Panel 5: The moment that Jim remembers just how difficult it is to supervise Sam.

Personally, I think that's Jim processing just how sincere Sam is being and, as a consequence, just how important to her that her relationship with Faye has become.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Bad Superman on 09 Aug 2018, 23:56
While I am not exactly a fan of Sam, I think her being honest with her father and accepting the possible consequences (which I would view as 'dire' in this case, if it meant not being allowed to visit Faye and Bubbles for a while) deserves respect. 

I still wonder though if what happened in the shop will be the topic of a small discussion between Bubbles and Faye… Not in a "What the fuck did you think?" kind of way. More to the effect that they just cannot afford to make mistakes right now. If they fuck up, their business is done. This little accident could work as the ideal 'warning shot'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 10 Aug 2018, 00:04
'this time'...

I fully agree with Tova; at some point Jim realises keeping Sam safe is not an easy task, and there has been incidents on his watch as well. Small accidents can help avoiding big accidents. Live and learn...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: traroth on 10 Aug 2018, 00:30
Positive point of view: Taking responsiblity is a real sign of growth
Negative point of view: Nice reverse psychology manipulation, Sam!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: oddtail on 10 Aug 2018, 01:57
Positive point of view: Taking responsiblity is a real sign of growth
Negative point of view: Nice reverse psychology manipulation, Sam!

Honestly, I think what she says is somewhere between the two. There can be a hint of calculation to her words *as well* as genuine feeling of responsibility. Human thought processes are complicated and full of contradictions.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 10 Aug 2018, 03:01
Positive point of view: Taking responsiblity is a real sign of growth
Negative point of view: Nice reverse psychology manipulation, Sam!

I don't think Sam wants to guilt trip Jim into something he doesn't want to do. She is perfectly aware that not going to the shop anymore is quite a possible consequence to this.

Concerning the whole situation, Faye could've realised this was not going to end well, starting with Sam trying to "freehand" it.
It quite definetly was a warning shot for everyone involved. Serious enough to not be taken lightly, but nothing with lasting (physical) effect.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Aug 2018, 05:07
SAM uses REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY on DAD!

It's Super Effective!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: JimC on 10 Aug 2018, 10:03
Strange that Jim wouldn’t have a stronger gag reflex working around food.  Mold and vermin go with the territory.
Well I worked in the food trade for several years in my youth, and don't ever remember seeing mould or vermin.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 10 Aug 2018, 14:33
I've only worked briefly in the food industry, but I would think that if your seeing/smelling mold and vermin, either you or your employer are doing something wrong.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 10 Aug 2018, 17:47
Strange that Jim wouldn’t have a stronger gag reflex working around food.  Mold and vermin go with the territory.

A lot of people can handle one disgusting thing, but show them something else and their stomach will do loops.

My first job was as a stockboy in a supermarket. Where we worked had a compactor that was removed and emptied four times a year. Which meant that someone had to go down and clean out the area of anything that fell through the gaps. Which meant the stockboys. We'd have to go do and clear out the likes of fruit that was so decomposed it left a slight ether like scent. Or it could have been meat. And the smell of rancid meat lingers, it hangs in the air. The smell sticks to your tongue and for a few days afterwards, no matter how much you wash your mouth out, everything has the tinge of rancid meat. And then there was the summer.

Over the years, I've had to clean up blood, urine, vomit and excrement. Its not a problem for me. I don't like it, but I'll do it. Thanks to that first job, I even catch a hint of a smell that meat has gone off, I'm about ready to retch.

Long story short, people react differently to different things.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 10 Aug 2018, 18:26
Oh boy, does it ever. I accidentally unplugged my meat filled deep freeze while sweeping and didn't notice.
Then I left for a week, during a heatwave.
I had missed garbage day, which is on alternating weeks here to encourage recycling.

It was a rough two weeks, once I got back. Like an oil slick in the back of my throat, and my husband had taken his gas mask on tour. I consider the cleaning out of, and the bleaching of the freezer without vomiting to be a crowning achievement.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 10 Aug 2018, 22:05
Strange that Jim wouldn’t have a stronger gag reflex working around food.  Mold and vermin go with the territory.

Or just being a parent—especially of a child like Sam who is bound to have had many childhood injuries.

It's like I said earlier - it's different when it's your kid

I'm sure Jim was strong for Sam when he needed to be - probably has bandaged many a grossity, or gotten her to the emergency room, all the while holding back his urge to toss his cookies, until that one noodle incident...


I have to say that, as a dad, the best line in this whole sequence of events is the last one in today's strip.  It sums up the father-tomboy relationship so well! 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Case on 11 Aug 2018, 08:36
I think I rather quickly disabused my parents of the notion that protecting their offspring from bodily harm was possible - or even advisable - so baby sis' reaped the benefits of that. They settled on hiding the knives and plugging the electrical sockets, which was probably wise.

Not that I was a wild child, or a disobedient one - I was a little ADHD dreamer kid (and a horrible klutz) and parental advice tended to have ... unforeseen consequences. Like the one time I found out that spring mattresses made excellent trampolines, and got it into my head that mine should be just as excellently suited to simulate a skydiver's jump out an airplane door - Mom is standing right in front of me, trying not to smirk, sterning "If you boink your head on the corner of the bed, you'll get a good thrashing, you know that, right?"

Guess what happened. That's how we learned that "the body will follow the eye". Forty years later, I still got a one-inch scar on my forehead (three stitches).

Mom never made good on the promised thrashing. I got a front-row view of how parents look when they try their best to suppress a panic attack while hustling their screaming, blood-covered offspring to the ER. It wouldn't be the last time. Aaaaaand it laid the foundation for my abiding hatred of hospitals. I decided to maybe pay a little more attention to parental advice, so I never tested whether putting my little mitts on the oven would really hurt. Ditto on on putting knitting needles into the electrical sockets.

Compounding the danger was my budding engineering/science aptitude, which was rapidly evolving due to a series of "well-intentioned" gifts (especially various Fischertechnik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischertechnik) construction sets). I think at some point, Mom must have realized that warning her little scientist of the dangers of anything even remotely techy could be unwise, especially when he got 'that look' on his face.

We lived next door to Mom's sister, and the younger of my two cousins was a prodigy with anything mechanical (He's turned out a car mechanic, me a physicist). From age ten onwards, young Case started advising the grown-ups, e.g. on the proper way to start NYE-rocketry. The resulting mockery soon subsided when Uncle Yogi discovered that the little loudmouth was actually right, and ignoring him could lead to burned mitts (who'd get the idea that starting NYE-rocketry out of their hands was a good idea? My uncle, that's who. Grownups ...). My cousin took apart-, and re-assembled his first bicycle before we enrolled in elementary school (today, he scratches that itch by buying esoteric wreckage and selling it on ebay as soon as it is in perfect condition).

Warning us lot of dangers could be ... dangerous. And our two sets of parents were far too busy keeping up with the disasters resulting from ideas they wouldn't have dreamed warning us about, so they soon settled on a combination of loving mockery in less serious cases ("Rotting flesh. Good it's gone" - an inquisitive, excellently schooled child tends to take parental fears as inspiration for experimentation. Parental mockery, on the other hand ...), impromptu emergency-room skills in more serious ones (Uncle Yogi once peeled a cupload of gravel out of my knees & elbows. Turns out that pitiful wailing didn't impress Uncle Yogi to the same degree it impressed Mom - that is to say: At all - so I was forced to learn to drive more carefully), and exploiting our unsettling skillset as soon as we hit puberty and became actually useful.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Case on 11 Aug 2018, 09:51
I'm actually guessing a lot of these statements have a huge cultural influence in-bedded in them.
I'm quite surprised by the extend of some of the reactions here. Suing someone for this?
In my European country (the Netherlands) that would be unheard of.
There is a large believe in "don't be stupid". And this level of supervision is in general seen as adequate.
Moreover, similar treatments are standard in our education system.
Although i did a mostly academic oriented education, we had quite some basic wood/acrylic work in school; handling of hammers, basic sawing use etc was handled at 10-11. We had some basic training in using machine saws and drills at 14-15 with similar instruction level STANDARD.

It's similar in Germany, though I think that the self-reliance/DIY-attitude is more pronounced in the Netherlands and Belgium. We did e.g. use basic tools like saws in practical classes in elementary school, also knitting etc. (no powertools, though - but Gramps & Uncle had plenty, and they were absolutely verboten until we were old enough to hold them up for more than 5 seconds. That was before rechargeable batteries became widespread, so powertools tended to be heavy), and all four classes of each year went through a thorough "road-safety/bicycle use in traffic" course together (until age 8, German kids are permitted to ride on the sidewalk. Parents are invited to participate in the course as observers, and grade children's performance. Being initiated into one part of the adult world has a bit of an coming-of-age aspect).

I didn't need a powertool to lose a fingernail - prying a stone lose from under another works just fine in that regard - and yes, it hurts plenty, and regrowing it isn't fun, either. I think it's best to help children acquire a 'feel' for the forces involved in tools as early as possible.

Concerning liability: What about liability in the opposite case? One thing that impressed me as a kid were the ubiquitous signs on construction sites "Betreten verboten - Eltern haften für ihre Kinder". "No Trespassing - Parents are liable for the actions of their children". So from an early age on, I was aware of the fact that my parents might be legally liable for dumb shit I did (and of course we trespassed as soon as we hit puberty ...)

In that context, I'm rather ... astonished about this NYT-article: "Can Parents Be Charged for Failing to Keep Their Guns Locked Up?" (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/us/parents-guns-negligent-storage-laws.html). Like ... how is this even a question?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 11 Aug 2018, 11:08
you waited until you hit puberty to trespass?  German kids really *are* rule-abiding.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Dust on 11 Aug 2018, 13:55
A doctor's still probably a good idea - this seems like something you'd want a tetanus booster for.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Yhelta on 11 Aug 2018, 15:41
Was I the only one who read Sam's dad in the third panel in Hank Hill's voice? 

I tell you hwat!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 11 Aug 2018, 16:42
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Dust on 11 Aug 2018, 18:11
Was I the only one who read Sam's dad in the third panel in Hank Hill's voice? 

I tell you hwat!

"Dangit Sam! That girl ain't right..."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 11 Aug 2018, 20:23
Was I the only one who read Sam's dad in the third panel in Hank Hill's voice? 

I tell you hwat!

"Dangit Sam! That girl ain't right..."

Next thing we know Jim will start selling propane and propane accessories.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3801-3805 (6-10 August 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 12 Aug 2018, 11:01
How do you think "Ol' smokey" is fired up? 


 :-D