THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 26 Aug 2018, 09:35
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And one of those mega polls to look back at the summer of 2018!
RIP John McCain, btw.
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My wife, back in the day, wanted to be a librarian so following the advice at the time she went and got a double degree in English/History (shes book smart), once she graduated she discovered that she'd need a degree in IT so being heartily sick of studying by then she said bugger that and is now working in a completely different field, that was roughly 15 - 20 years ago
So basically Martens right and Claire needs to stop acting like a little kid and accept that what she wants she might not get, yeah it sucks but thats just how it is so either accept it or don't but its not going to change
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My wife, back in the day, wanted to be a librarian so following the advice at the time she went and got a double degree in English/History (shes book smart), once she graduated she discovered that she'd need a degree in IT so being heartily sick of studying by then she said bugger that and is now working in a completely different field, that was roughly 15 - 20 years ago
I never finished my degree but it wouldn't have helped my job prospects much anyway - a Philosophy/EngLit double major is the dictionary definition of an utterly useless but fun to get degree. I work as a hotel clerk and don't mind that; I've had far far worse.
So basically Martens right and Claire needs to stop acting like a little kid and accept that what she wants she might not get, yeah it sucks but thats just how it is so either accept it or don't but its not going to change
Yes.
The other hand is to try anyway. You can't win if you don't play the game.
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The other hand is to try anyway. You can't win if you don't play the game.
Agreed, Who dares wins and all that
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I originally did a degree in Biomedical Engineering, having been told that I would be designing new parts or working on new devices.
Two years in, I was then told that my degree would make me just qualified to operate a lathe.
I said screw it, dropped out and went on to get qualifications in Applied Science, Quality Assurance, Business, IT and Social Media Management. And I'm in a job that is kinda fun and allows me a degree of flexibility.
With regards to the comic, I'm getting the impression that no one has ever said "No" to Claire. I'm not saying she's spoiled or anything like, but I feel like no one has ever sat her down and said that sometimes dream never come to pass. Part of growing up is realising that yeah, those dreams crash and burn, but its not the end of the world. You build up from that, you find a new dream and you reach for that. And if that dream burns, you build up again and reach further. You are always building on the past to make it to the future.
And here, it just feels like if Claire doesn't pass the exam, she has nothing else to reach for.
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With regards to the comic, I'm getting the impression that no one has ever said "No" to Claire. I'm not saying she's spoiled or anything like, but I feel like no one has ever sat her down and said that sometimes dream never come to pass. Part of growing up is realising that yeah, those dreams crash and burn, but its not the end of the world. You build up from that, you find a new dream and you reach for that. And if that dream burns, you build up again and reach further. You are always building on the past to make it to the future.
And here, it just feels like if Claire doesn't pass the exam, she has nothing else to reach for.
In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
This did a massive disservice to a lot of people who ended up going to university and then dropping out, with massive loans of course, and discovering that there are other options (my path started in the military) out there for everyone
I'm wondering if Claire can only see one way, the way of the librarian, as the only path to happiness and fulfilment?
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
This did a massive disservice to a lot of people who ended up going to university and then dropping out, with massive loans of course, and discovering that there are other options (my path started in the military) out there for everyone
You're only about 15-20 years behind America, then. The slow strangulation of the trades in favor of the fervent belief in a college education started in the late 60's-early 70's.
I have a Ph.D. in mathematics from a major university.
I teach part time as an online adjunct. My career did not go as planned, and I lost all three of the tenure track positions I'd held over the years. Part of that is a change in the academic landscape, along with several choices I made that in hindsight were ill advised (basically, I aimed too high, and slid off the target without sticking).
Life sometimes takes you places you'd rather not have gone. Claire's right to be scared, but she has Marten.
Oh, and what's this about "if we weren't dating"? I'd say living together is about two steps past dating...
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
This did a massive disservice to a lot of people who ended up going to university and then dropping out, with massive loans of course, and discovering that there are other options (my path started in the military) out there for everyone
I'm wondering if Claire can only see one way, the way of the librarian, as the only path to happiness and fulfilment?
Same in Ireland from around the same time. I finished Secondary School in 2003, and from when we started in 1997, it was drilled into our heads that college and university were the only worthwhile options available to us. No one ever said we had options, that apprenticeships or training schemes were viable. Just get into Uni or an Institute.
Which, looking back, was complete bollix.
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You're only about 15-20 years behind America, then.
Ain't that the truth :-D
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Which, looking back, was complete bollix.
Yeah so many kids get made to feel like failures if they're not suited to uni plus get saddled with student loans to pay off with nothing to show for it
Someone really screwed up
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I have been one class away from finishing a degree in electronics for so long I think I can't even finish that degree anymore.
But hey I fell backwards into an online marketing and social media management job where I grew with the new division of a company to the point that if I left half our marketing would fall apart. I get paid well in something I'm surprisingly good at, that I would have never guessed 10 years ago, in a field I actually like (video games).
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"So you'd kill me for my job?"
"I'm not answering that."
*later.....*
"Does this coffee taste funny?"
*THUMP*
"Yay! Employed!"
Or not....
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My wife, back in the day, wanted to be a librarian so following the advice at the time she went and got a double degree in English/History (shes book smart), once she graduated she discovered that she'd need a degree in IT so being heartily sick of studying by then she said bugger that and is now working in a completely different field, that was roughly 15 - 20 years ago
So basically Martens right and Claire needs to stop acting like a little kid and accept that what she wants she might not get, yeah it sucks but thats just how it is so either accept it or don't but its not going to change
Well, yeah, but maybe give her a chance to mourn her dream a little bit? I mean, she just got out of denial. Just because she doesn’t immediately accept the death of a dream doesn’t mean she never will.
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“please don’t take this as an attack but...”
“I’m totally going to deny any struggles you’ve had and ignore the point you are trying to make by pointing out you had something fortunate happen in your life that I’m jealous of.”
I’m not trying to be a jerk but...
I’m not racist but...
I’m not trying to belittle you but...
Geez Claire, there is a way to talk about your anxieties and worries without dumping on Marten.
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His "point" was a meaningless platitude. "Everything will just work out, it did for me" is not a point. Marten dismissing her legit concerns by pointing out he fell backwards into a job he had no qualifications for is not helpful. He means well, but everything Claire said was true.
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I voted for human-AI mating which is a beautiful thing when tastefully done.
I think this conversation may be why Claire was reluctant to talk about all this. Marten is lucky to have the job he’s got and Claire can’t rely on the same. She doesn’t want to attack him about it, but she’s right and this could easily be taken the wrong way, but they’re having a heart to heart talk which will diffuse a potentially touchy subject. Good for them.
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I think that her response to his "look at me!" assurance was on point, and wouldn't have sounded remotely like an attack if she hadn't denied it. Twice.
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"So you'd kill me for my job?"
"I'm not answering that."
*later.....*
"Does this coffee taste funny?"
*THUMP*
"Yay! Employed!"
Or not....
Well there is the prison library although I think she’d prefer to be on the other side. Seriously that might actually be one possibility since I had a colleague who graduated with an MA in Library Science and he works for the Corrections Department Library.
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I always want to tell people that there's really only one way to be "privileged" that's actually real and works. It's not race or money or where you were born. It's connections. If you're privileged then you inherited some good ones from your parents. If your dad is the CEO or friends with the CEO then he can probably get you a better job opportunity than you deserve.
The real goal of anyone wanting to get ahead, then, is to make connections. This is the whole purpose of sites like LinkedIn. You never know when someone you worked with 5 years ago is going to find themselves in a great position, looking to bring more people in, and hopefully they remember you as a good worker, or at least not a douchebag (and hopefully you kept in touch).
Getting ahead with no connections is very, very difficult. Even if you land a great job, it'll dry up one day and you may be back to square one.
Marten had connections. It's way more common than Claire seems to realize or admit. She acts like it's a fluke but it's not. If you managed to inherit good ones then congratulations, you won the life lottery. If you're a standoffish bitter loner then you're probably going to have a hard time.
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Frankly, given how much she and Tai butts heads, I'm genuinely surprised to read that Claire is jealous of Marten's job. Of course, it is probably the fact that he works in a library that's the issue here, not necessarily the job or the specific location.
IIRC, back in the good old days, Marten told Faye and Dora that his dream job was professional music criticism as a back-up just in case Deathmøle didn't make it that big. So, yeah, Claire hit the nail on the head here and maybe she needed to hear this. Although she's put a lot of herself into her Library Science academic career, Marten is a warning that you don't always get your dream job and, sometimes, you have to make do with a job that doesn't suck with people who you don't despise in an organisation whose ethics aren't repulsive.
In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life fulfilment?
In the UK, this one hit home in the mid-90s and it's most concrete outcomes have been a whole new class of chronically unemployable graduates with huge, unserviceable personal debts and people entering formerly-vocational professions like nursing with totally unrealistic expectations of the level of seniority and deference they will receive. This, in turn, has led to a recruitment crisis in said professions because no-one wants to study for years in college and go onto collecting bed-pans and taking temperatures every hour.
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His "point" was a meaningless platitude. "Everything will just work out, it did for me" is not a point. Marten dismissing her legit concerns by pointing out he fell backwards into a job he had no qualifications for is not helpful. He means well, but everything Claire said was true.
Meaningless? I very much disagree. His point is that just because life doesn’t go exactly according to some grand master plan doesn’t mean it’s hopeless and everything will be bad. He uses himself as an example of ending up in a good place that he didn’t plan on. He wasn’t at all trying to say “hey, becoming a librarian is easy” yet that’s what Claire turned it in to. She missed his point entirely AND put him down in the process.
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Getting ahead with no connections is very, very difficult. Even if you land a great job, it'll dry up one day and you may be back to square one.
That's exactly the problem my brother has. Even getting an unpaid internship is nigh impossible, if you don't have any connections in the sector. Hard work and building your own network, can work out in the long run. But it's long and hard work.
Frankly, given how much she and Tai butts heads, I'm genuinely surprised to read that Claire is jealous of Marten's job.
I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember a strip that implied, at least, that Claire thought even Tai shouldn't hold the position she does. It might be Tai's job she's after.
In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
Seems much the same here. Of course, it's compounded by the fact that even some of the most basic jobs insist on qualifications - even if it's just cleaning. On the other hand, we don't have the same kind of fees - so the student loan issue is close to nonexistent. But it does mean that it's getting hard to find good tradesmen. The past decade has seen a stronger stress on trying to direct children back towards the trades. But then, the problem is they succeeded rather too well in convincing the current generation of parents that that was a second rate choice.
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Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I don't think Marten even knew Tai before he started working with her. They became friends later. Or is Claire referring to someone else? (Who?)
So while Claire has a point that connections often play a part in getting a job, that wasn't what happened with Marten. It was purely Tai's unconventional approach to hiring. Well, he heard about a potential position due to Colette (I think) but she wasn't "in the building" and he didn't get the job because of her.
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Getting ahead with no connections is very, very difficult. Even if you land a great job, it'll dry up one day and you may be back to square one.
That's only one of many, many perspectives and ranges of experience. Taking just one anecdotal counter-example, it bears no relationship whatsoever to my own life's work experience.
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life fulfilment?
In the UK, this one hit home in the mid-90s and it's most concrete outcomes have been a whole new class of chronically unemployable graduates with huge, unserviceable personal debts and people entering formerly-vocational professions like nursing with totally unrealistic expectations of the level of seniority and deference they will receive. This, in turn, has led to a recruitment crisis in said professions because no-one wants to study for years in college and go onto collecting bed-pans and taking temperatures every hour.
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As someone who was sold the "uni or die" idea in the UK, a lot of it was the promise that you'd walk out of uni straight into a job. Never mind that physics has no direct applications outside of academia. Most people I knew at uni didn't end up with roles even vaguely related to physics (which most of us studied). My personal issue was more a motivation and suitability for academia one; I've since learnt ways to motivate myself, but academia doesn't fit well with me. I'm busy retraining in accounting, so hopefully getting back on track. But having few contacts in the area sucks.
Hilariously, the only person I know who walked straight out of academia into a related role is my partner. She did English and history at uni, tried and failed at pgce (teaching qualifications) for a year, then did a ma in library and information management. Walked straight into a college library and settled well. And English and history is the degree they said was useless!
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His "point" was a meaningless platitude. "Everything will just work out, it did for me" is not a point. Marten dismissing her legit concerns by pointing out he fell backwards into a job he had no qualifications for is not helpful. He means well, but everything Claire said was true.
Yeah, going with a 'nope' on that one. Life can be a completely random shot in the dark sometimes. Marten didn't seem to be trying to dismiss anything entirely, just mitigate it. Claire's kind of doing a classic 'glass is half empty' view here, and the honest counter to that is glass is half full. 'Yes, bad things can happen, and you can have things not go to plan... But then good things can always happen even if it's just from being in the right place at the right time.'
Also, call me just a bit crazy, but I'm just not fond of her attitude. I agree with some of the other comments to the tune of her never having heard 'no' about things growing up. *sigh* This will be misconstrued as an attack, which it isn't, but legitimately in my experience many of the people I know, at least around here, who have done the transformative thing, have some symptoms like this, attitude-wise. I could be entirely wrong, maybe it's a defensive reaction to all the negatives in their lives. (you know, along the lines of 'I'll be damned if I'll be told who and what I can't be'), or something like that. Or it could just be a Claire thing.
Either which way, wasn't a huge fan of her essentially crapping on Marten for being (occasionally clueless) Marten last couple episodes, and to now crap on his attempts to make her feel better as well? Eh.
Pretty clear to me she just doesn't WANT to feel better. When someone tries to lighten your mood and help you not be overwhelmed, the appropriate response is NOT slapping the hand they reached out to you. Least where I grew up anyway.
Last thing I want to point out is the 'again, this isn't an attack...'. I've run into this a couple of times. If you have to point out TWICE that something isn't an attack, then you probably ought to rethink what you're about to say. Case in point, I did ONCE above, and STILL put some extra thought into it. As my ex-wife used to say, 'Saying "Don't take this the wrong way", doesn't give you unlimited license to be an ass.'.
'I need you to understand where I'm coming from', after all this basically my read would be she's coming from a place where she hasn't, doesn't, and isn't interested in considering anything except the (tm) 'One True Path' that she's divined for herself, and if/when it probably fails massively, given both the current ratio of jobs/collegiates in america and the history of the comic's characters, she's pretty much out of luck without EXACTLY the same kind of dumb luck of Marten's she's been dumping on a bit here. Adaptation is key, and I'll be surprised to see her do that moving forward.
God, I'm getting old and it shows.
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Perhaps this is the start of the Who Killed Marten Reed arc. Of course suspicion falls immediately upon Claire... but upon closer investigation it turns out a lot of people had an axe to grind with Mr. Reed... The killer turns out to be the absolute LAST person we suspect, the motive being totally justifiable too -- to the point where we all sympathize with the killer and genuinely feel bad when Bubbles crushes his or her head like an over-ripe melon. The plot twist comes when Hanners introduces Marten's replacement clone, Martin Reed -- because according to Heir To The Empire clones can't spell their original names correctly.
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
Seems much the same here. Of course, it's compounded by the fact that even some of the most basic jobs insist on qualifications - even if it's just cleaning. On the other hand, we don't have the same kind of fees - so the student loan issue is close to nonexistent. But it does mean that it's getting hard to find good tradesmen. The past decade has seen a stronger stress on trying to direct children back towards the trades. But then, the problem is they succeeded rather too well in convincing the current generation of parents that that was a second rate choice.
Message string above edited for brevity by me
Perhaps you're also from the Netherlands, but that's exactly the issue here as well. About 5 years ago or so, it was again vocalized by the Dutch government as one of their main goals to have 80% (it may have been even higher) of the population have at least a college degree, somehow implying that the college graduation rate is a main measure of a country's success.
And yes, the past decades have really led to both parents and children being convinced that not going to college basically meant wasting your life and tossing any chance of success out the window.
Of course this has inevitably led to a shortage of good people in trades (and way too many people with business degrees) and a resulting slow but steady increase in appreciation for those trades. Unfortunately this doesn't yet mean more people end up in those fields. After all, everybody wants tradespeople (e.g. good plumbers), yet they all want other people to do it. Presumably this won't change until the shortage leads to skyrocketing service fees. After all, there is no better incentive to choose a profession than the prospect of good money!
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Yanno, sometimes getting your dream job - or even a job beyond your wildest dreams - ain't all it's cracked up to be.
I'm reading Paul McCartney - A Life, and at the point where I'm at, being at the top of your game can really suck rocks.
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Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I don't think Marten even knew Tai before he started working with her. They became friends later. Or is Claire referring to someone else? (Who?)
So while Claire has a point that connections often play a part in getting a job, that wasn't what happened with Marten. It was purely Tai's unconventional approach to hiring. Well, he heard about a potential position due to Colette (I think) but she wasn't "in the building" and he didn't get the job because of her.
No you remember correctly. Marten getting the job had nothing to do with connections. He saw the job opening on the window, went inside, passed the 'test' (iambic pentameter) and got hired. Not sure where Claire got the impression that connections played a role.
Besides, I might be wrong, but isn't Marten 'only' a library clerk or something? There are definitely actual librarians there as well, and Tai herself of course (not sure about her title). I realize that in a competitive field sometimes starting at a relatively low level is a good way to get your foot in the door, but to say many people with better/more degrees than Claire would kill for Marten's job (i.e. not a librarian) seems to be exaggerating a bit.
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His "point" was a meaningless platitude. "Everything will just work out, it did for me" is not a point. Marten dismissing her legit concerns by pointing out he fell backwards into a job he had no qualifications for is not helpful. He means well, but everything Claire said was true.
Meaningless? I very much disagree. His point is that just because life doesn’t go exactly according to some grand master plan doesn’t mean it’s hopeless and everything will be bad. He uses himself as an example of ending up in a good place that he didn’t plan on. He wasn’t at all trying to say “hey, becoming a librarian is easy” yet that’s what Claire turned it in to. She missed his point entirely AND put him down in the process.
I think that Marten's point was indeed what you took from it, but he worded it a bit weirdly. He could've/should've said something like "even if it doesn't go exactly how you expected it to go, that doesn't mean there are no other options/that you failed/that you missed out on the 1 path to happiness/ etc.
Instead, the way he worded it was more like "everything will work out, I promise", which is not great advice, as you'd still need to work hard on finding a diifferent path for yourself.
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
Seems much the same here. Of course, it's compounded by the fact that even some of the most basic jobs insist on qualifications - even if it's just cleaning. On the other hand, we don't have the same kind of fees - so the student loan issue is close to nonexistent. But it does mean that it's getting hard to find good tradesmen. The past decade has seen a stronger stress on trying to direct children back towards the trades. But then, the problem is they succeeded rather too well in convincing the current generation of parents that that was a second rate choice.
Message string above edited for brevity by me
Perhaps you're also from the Netherlands, but that's exactly the issue here as well. About 5 years ago or so, it was again vocalized by the Dutch government as one of their main goals to have 80% (it may have been even higher) of the population have at least a college degree, somehow implying that the college graduation rate is a main measure of a country's success.
And yes, the past decades have really led to both parents and children being convinced that not going to college basically meant wasting your life and tossing any chance of success out the window.
Of course this has inevitably led to a shortage of good people in trades (and way too many people with business degrees) and a resulting slow but steady increase in appreciation for those trades. Unfortunately this doesn't yet mean more people end up in those fields. After all, everybody wants tradespeople (e.g. good plumbers), yet they all want other people to do it. Presumably this won't change until the shortage leads to skyrocketing service fees. After all, there is no better incentive to choose a profession than the prospect of good money!
Just south of there ;)
It's not just plumbers; it's butchers, carpenters, anything, really. Mind, a lot is being picked up by workers from the East (stereotypically Polish and Romanians), and by migrants of all sorts.
There's also the fact, that there are quite a few people around, that are simply not happy doing the kind of work they have a degree for. Pressure towards higher education is not always a good thing. I mean, yes, democratising higher education is good - anyone who wants, and deserves the opportunity, should be able to take it. The problem is, though, that from leveling the field socio-economically, they've gone to seeing it as a general requirement, almost.
Mind, I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to go and pursue an education, and a degree - and that should be affordable, as it still is, in our little nook of the world. It's just that, valuable as it might be as an experience, it's not for everyone, and it most certainly is not the only way to happiness.
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Marten did have some connections, though, IIRC - granted, through the person who got fired from the job that he got, but still.
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This comic made me think about how I've always thought it was a shame that the "Marten starts a music blog" thing never really took off as a plot point. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% down with it not having been some sort of a massive success that became his full-time job. But ... well, I came to terms a long time a ago that it's *ok* to have a job that lets you do the things you're passionate about rather than a job that is itself something you're truly passionate about. But while he may take his job at the library seriously, I'm not sure I ever got the sense that it was something he really *cared* about. It just seems like there's more he could do for his own personal (rather than professional) benefit and growth.
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I think Marten's music blog went the way of Jeph's...
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Marten did have some connections, though, IIRC - granted, through the person who got fired from the job that he got, but still.
Well, yes, but she didn't really get him the job or even introduced, she merely pointed out that the library might be hiring.
That's akin to me telling my friend I saw a certain job posting.
Granted, perhaps she could've introduced or recommended Marten to Tai, but usually getting referred by the person who got fired from the same job is not a good way to start your jobhunt...
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In NZ from roughly the late 80s onwards there was a massive shift away from apprenticeships and trades as options for schoolkids and was replaced by an almost fervent belief that University was the be all and end all and that without a degree (any degree) you'd be doomed to a, at best, mediocre life
Seems much the same here. Of course, it's compounded by the fact that even some of the most basic jobs insist on qualifications - even if it's just cleaning. On the other hand, we don't have the same kind of fees - so the student loan issue is close to nonexistent. But it does mean that it's getting hard to find good tradesmen. The past decade has seen a stronger stress on trying to direct children back towards the trades. But then, the problem is they succeeded rather too well in convincing the current generation of parents that that was a second rate choice.
Message string above edited for brevity by me
Perhaps you're also from the Netherlands, but that's exactly the issue here as well. About 5 years ago or so, it was again vocalized by the Dutch government as one of their main goals to have 80% (it may have been even higher) of the population have at least a college degree, somehow implying that the college graduation rate is a main measure of a country's success.
And yes, the past decades have really led to both parents and children being convinced that not going to college basically meant wasting your life and tossing any chance of success out the window.
Of course this has inevitably led to a shortage of good people in trades (and way too many people with business degrees) and a resulting slow but steady increase in appreciation for those trades. Unfortunately this doesn't yet mean more people end up in those fields. After all, everybody wants tradespeople (e.g. good plumbers), yet they all want other people to do it. Presumably this won't change until the shortage leads to skyrocketing service fees. After all, there is no better incentive to choose a profession than the prospect of good money!
Just south of there ;)
It's not just plumbers; it's butchers, carpenters, anything, really. Mind, a lot is being picked up by workers from the East (stereotypically Polish and Romanians), and by migrants of all sorts.
There's also the fact, that there are quite a few people around, that are simply not happy doing the kind of work they have a degree for. Pressure towards higher education is not always a good thing. I mean, yes, democratising higher education is good - anyone who wants, and deserves the opportunity, should be able to take it. The problem is, though, that from leveling the field socio-economically, they've gone to seeing it as a general requirement, almost.
Mind, I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to go and pursue an education, and a degree - and that should be affordable, as it still is, in our little nook of the world. It's just that, valuable as it might be as an experience, it's not for everyone, and it most certainly is not the only way to happiness.
Plus there is now a sort of social stigma when it comes to not having a college-degree, almost as if people feel they need a college degree as to not be seen as 'inferior'.
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Marten did have some connections, though, IIRC - granted, through the person who got fired from the job that he got, but still.
Well, yes, but she didn't really get him the job or even introduced, she merely pointed out that the library might be hiring.
That's akin to me telling my friend I saw a certain job posting.
Granted, perhaps she could've introduced or recommended Marten to Tai, but usually getting referred by the person who got fired from the same job is not a good way to start your jobhunt...
Well, seems like recognising iambic pentameter (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=691) was enough for him to get the job. It doesn't look like Tai knew him.
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Marten did have some connections, though, IIRC - granted, through the person who got fired from the job that he got, but still.
Well, yes, but she didn't really get him the job or even introduced, she merely pointed out that the library might be hiring.
That's akin to me telling my friend I saw a certain job posting.
Granted, perhaps she could've introduced or recommended Marten to Tai, but usually getting referred by the person who got fired from the same job is not a good way to start your jobhunt...
Well, seems like recognising iambic pentameter (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=691) was enough for him to get the job. It doesn't look like Tai knew him.
Yup, see also my earlier post.
I meant she could've introduced him, but never actually did. So Claire's assertion that a 'friend in the building' somehow helped him get the job is unfair towards Marten.
Yes, Tai/SMIF may have had an unorthodox hiring practice, but Marten did pass the initial test by recognizing iambic pentameter, which extremely few people would probably be capable of. Regardless of his qualifications on paper, he clearly showed a certain skill that they were looking for, so imo he justifiably got the job. He didn't lie, didn't overstate his qualifications, didn't mislead Tai or anything to that extent; he applied, passed the test/'interview' and therefore got hired.
Whether the hiring criteria were proper ones you would expect for that position is another question altogether.
Re-reading the comic, I actually have more and more issues with Claire's arguments. She also states that Marten was "objectively unqualified". Objectively? Sounds more like subjectively according to Claire......
Let's not forget that Marten was not actually hired as a librarian. In fact, from what we have seen his job does not seem to involve any particular skills/knowledge that he would be objectively not be qualified for. It does not appear to be a position you'd need a library degree or similar to.
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If Gus Augustus was as much of the sort of asshole Clinton describes, dream crushing is quite frequently part of their standard script. Claire's likely heard "You'll never be able to ...." plenty of times, quite possibly along with some outright hostility around gender identity.
Note also that she's pulled off a pretty much flawless gender transition - no one she's met in strip so far has had a clue she used to be a boy unless she's told them. To some trans people that's an accomplishment of a lifetime. Claire's come up hard against the realization that getting the job she wants could be even more difficult.
She is, of course, putting unreasonable expectation upon herself, and compounding two issues into one. Unless she completely freezes up, the chances of her failing her final exam are nil. She may not ace it, but she'll pass and do well (unless she psyches herself into failure). Getting hired is another goal and her GPA will only be a tie breaker if she's neck and neck with another candidate.
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I pointed out somewhere else that Marten's job security is due to something else (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1133) entirely, (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1134) which was something that Claire probably doesn't know about.
Of course, if Claire did find out about it, she'd be frozen in horror for at least three days, tops.
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I wonder, how much time passed between Marten getting hired, and Claire meeting him?
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She is, of course, putting unreasonable expectation upon herself, and compounding two issues into one. Unless she completely freezes up, the chances of her failing her final exam are nil. She may not ace it, but she'll pass and do well (unless she psyches herself into failure). Getting hired is another goal and her GPA will only be a tie breaker if she's neck and neck with another candidate.
Above post edited for brevity
How do we know her chances of failing the exam are nil? Honest question, I simply don't remember ever getting any real indication on how well she has been doing or how easy it is for her. All I remember is that yes she is a big nerd and she is very studious and a hard worker, but I don't remember ever getting information on her performance, other than her saying herself that everybody expects her to ace the exam (which implies she has always done great in school).
Apart from that, I am not familiar how easy/hard it is to fail an exam like this one.
In the Netherlands, once you are allowed to schedule your defense (whether MS of PhD), you're pretty much guaranteed to pass. It's a public defense so if they think there's even a remote chance of failing they simply won't let you schedule a defense.
In the US, I noticed the same whenever a defense is involved (at least in the engineering fields).
It's unclear though whether Claire has just written exams (?), and how common it is to fail written exams for MS degrees in the US..
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She is, of course, putting unreasonable expectation upon herself, and compounding two issues into one. Unless she completely freezes up, the chances of her failing her final exam are nil. She may not ace it, but she'll pass and do well (unless she psyches herself into failure).
I think to Claire, anything less than 100% would be a failure in her mind.
I mean, Claire isn't an idiot. She's very intelligent, has wanted to be a librarian for most of her life, so she is obviously prepared for the exam. But its the idea that she might not do absolutely well is getting to her and its that frustration that she's taking out on Marten.
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I wonder, how much time passed between Marten getting hired, and Claire meeting him?
Based on the only reasonable timeline I could find, a little under 1.5 years link (https://i.redditmedia.com/ZbqO2VcoIhaA4AdASD4DTykJwu8slwmZQ9r9KPd_XRI.png?s=cc11122b6ef600995b8c4053ec722f2e)
Edit: I think the time line is not that great, it seems more time has passed in the comic, in which case Marten probably was at the library at least 1.5 years when Claire showed up.
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Note also that she's pulled off a pretty much flawless gender transition - no one she's met in strip so far has had a clue she used to be a boy unless she's told them. To some trans people that's an accomplishment of a lifetime. Claire's come up hard against the realization that getting the job she wants could be even more difficult.
OK, your point is "Claire's overcome difficulties"(mod), but I want to prevent any flame fests that come from not acknowledging she was a girl from the time her brain got wired(/mod).
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I always want to tell people that there's really only one way to be "privileged" that's actually real and works. It's not race or money or where you were born. It's connections.
Welcome, new person!
Claire knows Hannelore. She's therefore a second-degree connection to Station on LinkedIn. Talk about friends in high places.
There's a thread in one of the other subforums about the concept of "privilege". (polite mod request)Please use it instead(/).
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Unless Claire is thinking that she's entitled to a librarian position.
At which point, I wonder if Claire realises exactly how much of her work would be dealing with books and how much would be dealing with people, faculty, students, meetings and researchers and so on. As Claire has proven on a couple of occasions, she's not exactly good with people, in which case Claire might be in for a rude awakening.
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Note also that she's pulled off a pretty much flawless gender transition - no one she's met in strip so far has had a clue she used to be a boy unless she's told them. To some trans people that's an accomplishment of a lifetime. Claire's come up hard against the realization that getting the job she wants could be even more difficult.
OK, your point is "Claire's overcome difficulties"(mod), but I want to prevent any flame fests that come from not acknowledging she was a girl from the time her brain got wired(/mod).
Correct. I cast that sentence from the viewpoint of a person meeting her for the first time.
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Unless Claire is thinking that she's entitled to a librarian position.
At which point, I wonder if Claire realises exactly how much of her work would be dealing with books and how much would be dealing with people, faculty, students, meetings and researchers and so on. As Claire has proven on a couple of occasions, she's not exactly good with people, in which case Claire might be in for a rude awakening.
A lot of this will depend on what library she gets a job with. Most are going to be primarily customer facing like you say. Public and school libraries you are going to spend most of your time dealing with people rather than books. Private or corporate libraries it's usually the flip side. I worked for a research facility in their reference library for a while. Aside from the other people that worked there I spoke to almost no one. The majority of my work was filling out information requests from the different labs. OSHA reference sheets, finding books or articles about requested subjects in the library and microfilm and collecting/checking in/re-shelving returned materials. Of course, this was a time before Google and the internet on everyone's phones.
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I know Marten stuck his foot in it originally, but he already got slapped by Ursula, Claire could ease up a bit... "Not to rub it in but" "THis isn't an attack but" "and again this is NOT an attack but.."
Claire be nicer to your boyfriend that already admitted he dunked up ._.
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Welcome, new person!
Claire knows Hannelore. She's therefore a second-degree connection to Station on LinkedIn. Talk about friends in high places.
Thanks, old person!
I think it's kinda like people having literally 1000 friends on Facebook.
Not everyone you know is a, well, useful connection. The one friend who tells you about a job opening (possibly one they just got fired from...) is worth a thousand that technically "friended" you and that was the extent of their interaction.
Of course, sometimes it's a question of opportunity. Maybe Hannelore just doesn't have anything she can help Claire with. But Samantha is a perfect example. A kid who stayed at home and played video games and didn't know anyone wouldn't get the chance to be a budding robot graffiti artist, but she's outgoing, meets people and happened to get to be friends with a couple of people who opened a robot repair shop...
Connections!
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Today's strip fell really flat to me. The character voicing was off, and the 'punchline' was a bit contorted.
It's genuinely weird looking at this and remembering how recently I was blown away by the side-by-side hip panels of Bubbles and Faye after closing the shop early. Character writing is Jeph's truest strength as an author, and this arc really isn't shining in that regard.
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Don't do it, Claire! Some hides handle tatts better than others, and gingers very often fall into the not-so-well end of the scale.
I know some of y'all love your ink, but it's not for everyone.
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Ink is for whoever wants it.
Tattoos aren't a solution but they don't hurt. Except when you're getting them, and when they're healing, and possibly emotionally later if you're like, "This was silly to get. Maybe I can get it covered with a tiger or something. (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2263)"
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Tattoos are a solution.
Well, technically the ink is, comprised of a carrier and colourant. But hey semantics.
Also, I have to agree with MrNumbers, this comic kinda feels a little flat. In fact, the whole storyline thus far has felt a little contrived. It feels like too easy a solution for Claire, especially considering how stressed and anxious she was a couple of strips ago.
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Add me to the list. It feels like Jeph is trying very hard to speak through his characters instead of letting them speak.
Tattoos aren't a solution but they don't hurt. Except when you're getting them, and when they're healing, and possibly emotionally later if you're like, "This was silly to get. Maybe I can get it covered with a tiger or something. (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2263)"
But other than that, Mrs Lincoln... :wink:
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I do sometimes forget Claire is trans, so that also may be a source of anxiety.
Saying that, generally this plotline hasn't worked that well for me. Other than Pintsize and his bits. :D
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Tattoos are a solution.
Well, technically the ink is, comprised of a carrier and colourant. But hey semantics.
Also, I have to agree with MrNumbers, this comic kinda feels a little flat. In fact, the whole storyline thus far has felt a little contrived. It feels like too easy a solution for Claire, especially considering how stressed and anxious she was a couple of strips ago.
A colloid, actually.
I wouldn't be surprised if Claire has a recurrence of the anxiety.
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I think that it was very polite of Marten not to tell Claire that his 'privilege' was realising that Tai had written the job application form in iambic pentameter.
All that aside, two things occur to me about this strip:
- Given the number of people in various forums that have been shouting "Claire, you're projecting your fears on others", either Jeph is reading more reader feedback or we're just that good at reading his mind;
- IMO, panel 6 proves that Claire is gradually replacing Marten as Jeph's self-insert and occasional mouthpiece.
Hands up who read Claire's suggested tattoo in panel 5 as 'Nobody's Perfect' and had to read the speech bubble slowly to see the joke. Ah, the wonders of the mind's ability to correct for what it expects to see rather than what is there! :-P
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Hands up who read Claire's suggested tattoo in panel 5 as 'Nobody's Perfect' and had to read the speech bubble slowly to see the joke. Ah, the wonders of the mind's ability to correct for what it expects to see rather than what is there! :-P
I was even signing on to say the tattoo should read like Eleanor's joke in The Good Place. I can't believe I didn't see the joke was already what she said!
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Shyyeaaaahhh...
This particular arc isn't making me like Claire any better...
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"I didn't want to turn this into a referendum on your privilege"?
Who talks like this? Good Lord, how tiresome this girl is.
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I think that it was very polite of Marten not to tell Claire that his 'privilege' was realising that Tai had written the job application form in iambic pentameter.
Indeed, as well as the fact that it was just a matter of "right place, right time". Had Claire been in that position, she could just as easily have had the same "privilege" she accuses Marten of having.
Now maybe someone like Brun can come along and point out to Claire about her own "privilege" of getting to have a post-secondary education, let alone one in a field that's actually useful in life, one that can become an actual career. (Even if in low demand).
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It's only tuesday. So let's see where this takes us.
Much though I can understand the need, right now, for Claire to get the support she needs, she is working on assumptions based on things that developed after the fact. Part of it might be her own anxiety, her own focus on the path she's chosen for herself, but that's only more reason for her to see the true context.
That's why I wondered how much time has passed. (Thanks, dutchvlr!)
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
And I've gotta say....
You guys are killing the story.
Just stop psychoanalyzing every little move and every little word each one says and trying to guess and say what they should do next because you've gotten to know the characters so much that you think you can write the story better. But when it happens the way you figure it or it doesn't happen the way you figure it would you complain and argue and are out with pitchforks anytime a character seems to be given the slightest slight.
Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
I've enjoyed every strip thus far, even Tilly, and maybe you all would again if you tried not telling jeff how to write the story.
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she is working on assumptions based on things that developed after the fact. Part of it might be her own anxiety, her own focus on the path she's chosen for herself, but that's only more reason for her to see the true context.
Par for the course with Claire. How many times has she put the cart before the horse with regards to people, only for it to come back and smack her in the face about how wrong she was? I'd say its her major character flaw.
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Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
Not much point in a WCDT, then, is there?
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
And I've gotta say....
You guys are killing the story.
Just stop psychoanalyzing every little move and every little word each one says and trying to guess and say what they should do next because you've gotten to know the characters so much that you think you can write the story better. But when it happens the way you figure it or it doesn't happen the way you figure it would you complain and argue and are out with pitchforks anytime a character seems to be given the slightest slight.
Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
I've enjoyed every strip thus far, even Tilly, and maybe you all would again if you tried not telling jeff Jeph how to write the story.
You do realise that this is a weekly discussion thread, right? We're going to discuss the comic, in minutiae. A story will always require a level of deep discussion to really understand what is going on as well as what is going on with the characters.
Which is another way of saying that its rather brash to make your first post one telling everyone what to do.
The thing about Questionable Content is that its a five day a week comic and while it can go through storylines at a relatively faster pace than other comics, the fact is that its not really suited to a story that runs for months. It tends to drag on, the momentum of the earlier story lost by the end and with it the interest garnered evaporates. It doesn't help when a divisive character is introduced. You liked Tilly, great. Not everyone did. They came across as obnoxious or deaf to the concerns of their new employer and by the time the revelation of what Hanners mother was doing, which might have redeemed Tilly, well, the damage by then was done.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
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I think that it was very polite of Marten not to tell Claire that his 'privilege' was realising that Tai had written the job application form in iambic pentameter.
All that aside, two things occur to me about this strip:
- Given the number of people in various forums that have been shouting "Claire, you're projecting your fears on others", either Jeph is reading more reader feedback or we're just that good at reading his mind;
- IMO, panel 6 proves that Claire is gradually replacing Marten as Jeph's self-insert and occasional mouthpiece.
Hands up who read Claire's suggested tattoo in panel 5 as 'Nobody's Perfect' and had to read the speech bubble slowly to see the joke. Ah, the wonders of the mind's ability to correct for what it expects to see rather than what is there! :-P
As for your first assertion, I think it's neither; I actually think it's a testament to how well Jeph develops his characters and makes their behavioral/thinking patterns consistent in his writing. We have come to know Claire as a certain person, and based on what we know of her and how she has behaved so far in this arc, we could surmise that she was projecting her own expectations.
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You do realise that this is a weekly discussion thread, right? We're going to discuss the comic, in minutiae. A story will always require a level of deep discussion to really understand what is going on as well as what is going on with the characters.
Which is another way of saying that its rather brash to make your first post one telling everyone what to do.
The thing about Questionable Content is that its a five day a week comic and while it can go through storylines at a relatively faster pace than other comics, the fact is that its not really suited to a story that runs for months. It tends to drag on, the momentum of the earlier story lost by the end and with it the interest garnered evaporates. It doesn't help when a divisive character is introduced. You liked Tilly, great. Not everyone did. They came across as obnoxious or deaf to the concerns of their new employer and by the time the revelation of what Hanners mother was doing, which might have redeemed Tilly, well, the damage by then was done.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
Discussion is fine, but when marten gets torn to shreds because hes human and doesn't notice things, when claire gets attacked because shes got human and is jealous and lets it all out. It is human emotion.
Others state that this arc doesn't feel right or feels forced, again, if you stop hyper analyzing everything you could maybe enjoy it again.
Does anyone remember The Last Jedi? It was analyzed a million times over before it was released and it let everyone down. That is what I feel happened here, you all expect so much and are constantly let down by it or get mad and argue that it doesn't happen the way you planned it in your head.
(mod edit: fixed quote tags, no other changes)
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
And I've gotta say....
You guys are killing the story.
Just stop psychoanalyzing every little move and every little word each one says and trying to guess and say what they should do next because you've gotten to know the characters so much that you think you can write the story better. But when it happens the way you figure it or it doesn't happen the way you figure it would you complain and argue and are out with pitchforks anytime a character seems to be given the slightest slight.
Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
I've enjoyed every strip thus far, even Tilly, and maybe you all would again if you tried not telling jeff how to write the story.
First of all, welcome to the forum!
Secondly, I don't think anyone here is trying to tell Jeph how to write the stories, we are simply commenting on them, i.e. how we feel about them, what we think is going on, analyzing why characters behave the way they do, whether we think it makes sense in the context of their prior behaviors, etc.
Often times our comments will be very positive (see the Faybles-arc and QC in general), sometimes they will be more critical about arcs/characters. the majority of the time though it's simply analysis from all of our different viewpoints, which is exactly what a discussion forum is meant for, no? the fact that many here are so involved in analyzing QC only shows you how incredibly engaged/invested we are, which to me seems the biggest compliment a comic writer can receive.
In my opinion, it would be rather boring if all everybody would do here is sing Jeph's praises.
Finally, while I very much welcome you on the forum, it is rather odd to use a first post on a discussion forum to tell everybody they should perhaps not be discussing....or at least discussing it much less :psyduck:
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Discussion is fine, but when marten gets torn to shreds because hes human and doesn't notice things, when claire gets attacked because shes got human and is jealous and lets it all out. It is human emotion.
Others state that this arc doesn't feel right or feels forced, again, if you stop hyper analyzing everything you could maybe enjoy it again.
Does anyone remember The Last Jedi? It was analyzed a million times over before it was released and it let everyone down. That is what I feel happened here, you all expect so much and are constantly let down by it or get mad and argue that it doesn't happen the way you planned it in your head.
I really think you are interpreting the discussions here much worse than they are. I for one have not gotten the impression at all that people here are "constantly being let down" or are mad that things don't happen the way they thought it would.
As for Marten and Claire getting "attacked" (you mean criticized yes?), well, again we are invested in the characters and thus discuss them as other human beings. As such, we discuss all their character traits, both positive and negative. Of course people behave the way they do because of their emotions, but does that mean not-great behavior should not be criticized because of it?
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...telling jeff how to write the story.
That wouldn't work anyway, 'cos his name is Jeph.
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
You did? Like seriously? :-o
Are you feeling alright? How many fingers am I holding up?
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I'm just glad The Good Place appears to exist in the QC universe.
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Personally, I've got the feeling Claire is overreacting a bit, but that's on par with her current stats of mind.
Marten didn't have a friend in the building at the time, he just reacted to a job posting in a newspaper, and found the iambic pentameter, that's about all he did. Of course Claire is a bit, well probably both jealous and annoyed, to a good extent rightly so. I would consider it funny if Tai quit for whatever reason and Claire got her position.
Also, I wouldn't call Marten getting that job "privilege", it's just sheer luck. And given Claire being Trans everything probably feels like an uphill battle, even if it didn't have to be, and that adds to the whole situation. Fighting all those battles probably brought her to a better position than taking the easy route, but you're allowed a breather every now and then.
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People have been asking for awhile to see Marten and Claire being a couple. To see them doing the work of supporting each other and growing. And now this arc is that. Yay.
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
You did? Like seriously? :-o
Are you feeling alright? How many fingers am I holding up?
Read daily, after each post, for that length of time. Not actually reading them in the all at once :laugh:
The comic itself I read over about a 2 month span and have then been following it daily since uhhh... Bembo? Give or take
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Unless Claire is thinking that she's entitled to a librarian position.
At which point, I wonder if Claire realises exactly how much of her work would be dealing with books and how much would be dealing with people, faculty, students, meetings and researchers and so on. As Claire has proven on a couple of occasions, she's not exactly good with people, in which case Claire might be in for a rude awakening.
This is on point. Marten may not have had the direct qualifications but passing the interview is a lot more than thst. Claire needs to learn this. Using the privilege argument is bogus
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Unless Claire is thinking that she's entitled to a librarian position.
At which point, I wonder if Claire realises exactly how much of her work would be dealing with books and how much would be dealing with people, faculty, students, meetings and researchers and so on. As Claire has proven on a couple of occasions, she's not exactly good with people, in which case Claire might be in for a rude awakening.
This is on point. Marten may not have had the direct qualifications but passing the interview is a lot more than thst. Claire needs to learn this. Using the privilege argument is bogus
Uhuh. Sooooh - In your experience: What could I expect to be asked if I were to interview for a position as a librarian?
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Unless Claire is thinking that she's entitled to a librarian position.
At which point, I wonder if Claire realises exactly how much of her work would be dealing with books and how much would be dealing with people, faculty, students, meetings and researchers and so on. As Claire has proven on a couple of occasions, she's not exactly good with people, in which case Claire might be in for a rude awakening.
This is on point. Marten may not have had the direct qualifications but passing the interview is a lot more than thst. Claire needs to learn this. Using the privilege argument is bogus
Uhuh. Sooooh - In your experience: What could I expect to be asked if I were to interview for a position as a librarian?
Having a degree or dip in that field or similar may have put him in the running. Leadership and organisational skills. Does he match what they are looking for at the moment.
This is why you never date your trainees.
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Ok, super longtime lurker, read through all the comments for the past 4-6 months of WCDT.
You did? Like seriously? :-o
Are you feeling alright? How many fingers am I holding up?
"Must... read... ALL... the posts..." (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2316) ("I worry about you.")
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Personally, I've got the feeling Claire is overreacting a bit, but that's on par with her current stats of mind.
Marten didn't have a friend in the building at the time, he just reacted to a job posting in a newspaper, and found the iambic pentameter, that's about all he did. Of course Claire is a bit, well probably both jealous and annoyed, to a good extent rightly so. I would consider it funny if Tai quit for whatever reason and Claire got her position.
Also, I wouldn't call Marten getting that job "privilege", it's just sheer luck. And given Claire being Trans everything probably feels like an uphill battle, even if it didn't have to be, and that adds to the whole situation. Fighting all those battles probably brought her to a better position than taking the easy route, but you're allowed a breather every now and then.
Even though she has the qualifications on paper, I would not recommend her to replace tai. She is ill suited for management role. I know her life has been rough, but when you are a manager you have to be fair, regardless of your battles.
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Personally, I've got the feeling Claire is overreacting a bit, but that's on par with her current stats of mind.
Marten didn't have a friend in the building at the time, he just reacted to a job posting in a newspaper, and found the iambic pentameter, that's about all he did. Of course Claire is a bit, well probably both jealous and annoyed, to a good extent rightly so. I would consider it funny if Tai quit for whatever reason and Claire got her position.
Also, I wouldn't call Marten getting that job "privilege", it's just sheer luck. And given Claire being Trans everything probably feels like an uphill battle, even if it didn't have to be, and that adds to the whole situation. Fighting all those battles probably brought her to a better position than taking the easy route, but you're allowed a breather every now and then.
Even though she has the qualifications on paper, I would not recommend her to replace tai. She is ill suited for management role. I know her life has been rough, but when you are a manager you have to be fair, regardless of your battles.
I never said it was a good idea. Might still work out since Marten probably would stand up to her and correct her ways. But that's something we'll probably never see anyway. Maybe she'll take a position in a NY theater library and run into Angus regularly. that's something I consider as probable as my previous idea.
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Personally, I've got the feeling Claire is overreacting a bit, but that's on par with her current stats of mind.
Marten didn't have a friend in the building at the time, he just reacted to a job posting in a newspaper, and found the iambic pentameter, that's about all he did. Of course Claire is a bit, well probably both jealous and annoyed, to a good extent rightly so. I would consider it funny if Tai quit for whatever reason and Claire got her position.
Also, I wouldn't call Marten getting that job "privilege", it's just sheer luck. And given Claire being Trans everything probably feels like an uphill battle, even if it didn't have to be, and that adds to the whole situation. Fighting all those battles probably brought her to a better position than taking the easy route, but you're allowed a breather every now and then.
Even though she has the qualifications on paper, I would not recommend her to replace tai. She is ill suited for management role. I know her life has been rough, but when you are a manager you have to be fair, regardless of your battles.
I never said it was a good idea. Might still work out since Marten probably would stand up to her and correct her ways. But that's something we'll probably never see anyway. Maybe she'll take a position in a NY theater library and run into Angus regularly. that's something I consider as probable as my previous idea.
This is a chance for her to grow as a person. As it stands, she is barely tolerable. She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
All of the attributes which make a terrible boss. Or a perfect boss who is a tyrant
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
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I remember a giant pink eraser from my childhood with the motto "Everybody makes misteaks" emblazoned on it.
I saw the P in "pobody's" right away - took me two more readings to see the N in "nerfect"
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This is a chance for her to grow as a person. As it stands, she is barely tolerable. She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
I disagree with the bolded part. Claire's nature as a trans person has never been a disability and bar her family, her boyfriend and Emily, Claire has never advertised that she was trans.
Now, Claire does have something of an attitude problem and she does have a problem keeping her nose out of other peoples' business, but then again with an Augustus nose, that seems rather difficult. But the simple fact is, even with the strides made in the past few years, I would imagine that Claire suddenly using being trans to get things her way would cause her far more problems than it would ever solve.
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
Maybe this is a sign that USS Clarten is taking on water.
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Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
Not much point in a WCDT, then, is there?
I remember when a much smaller proportion of the WCDT was minutely dissecting the comic, projecting one's real-world difficulties onto the comic, or dictating in detail how the poster wanted the comic to go.
I first logged on during the fading echoes of what was called the Dorapocalypse, so I think the WCDT might have been dialing itself back. It was certainly more laid-back and humorous then.
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
Maybe this is a sign that USS Clarten is taking on water.
I feel like you're engaging in some fairly serious projection here. I haven't particularly noticed her doing that at all. I mean, heck, if that was the sort of thing she *was* prone to - don't you think the possibility of having to deal with bigoted hiring managers would be something she'd be bringing up in the conversation she's having? As like, her first point?
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
Maybe this is a sign that USS Clarten is taking on water.
I can't think of an example of her doing that.
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
I can't think of an example of her doing that.
#meneither
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She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
Come again?
Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
I can't think of an example of her doing that.
#meneither
#orme
The only instance I remember where Claire talked about issues related to being trans is her convo with Pintsize, and she never talked about any issues she herself may have had in that convo.
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Today's strip fell really flat to me. The character voicing was off, and the 'punchline' was a bit contorted.
It's genuinely weird looking at this and remembering how recently I was blown away by the side-by-side hip panels of Bubbles and Faye after closing the shop early. Character writing is Jeph's truest strength as an author, and this arc really isn't shining in that regard.
The current storyline, as well as the one with Clinton/Brun/Elliott, feel a little too forced for me. To me it feels as if Jeph has been wanting to address privilege for a while, perhaps partially due to it being part of public conversation for a while now (to some extent). He more or less started addressing that with the Winslow-getting-a-body arc around comic 3550.
While I think it's great he wants to address the various forms of privilege, it feels like the 2 recent narratives I mentioned were a little too contrived, which makes them feel a tad preachy. In the current arc, it's barely even a privilege thing, but perhaps that's where Jeph is going with this, to address Claire unjustly giving Marten a hard time for landing his job.
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Today's strip fell really flat to me. The character voicing was off, and the 'punchline' was a bit contorted.
It's genuinely weird looking at this and remembering how recently I was blown away by the side-by-side hip panels of Bubbles and Faye after closing the shop early. Character writing is Jeph's truest strength as an author, and this arc really isn't shining in that regard.
The current storyline, as well as the one with Clinton/Brun/Elliott, feel a little too forced for me. To me it feels as if Jeph has been wanting to address privilege for a while, perhaps partially due to it being part of public conversation for a while now (to some extent). He more or less started addressing that with the Winslow-getting-a-body arc around comic 3550.
While I think it's great he wants to address the various forms of privilege, it feels like the 2 recent narratives I mentioned were a little too contrived, which makes them feel a tad preachy. In the current arc, it's barely even a privilege thing, but perhaps that's where Jeph is going with this, to address Claire unjustly giving Marten a hard time for landing his job.
A Hannelore privilege arc could go horribly wrong here. Sit back and enjoy the story, don't post for a month and see how much better you feel.
Not much point in a WCDT, then, is there?
I remember when a much smaller proportion of the WCDT was minutely dissecting the comic, projecting one's real-world difficulties onto the comic, or dictating in detail how the poster wanted the comic to go.
I first logged on during the fading echoes of what was called the Dorapocalypse, so I think the WCDT might have been dialing itself back. It was certainly more laid-back and humorous then.
doralocalypse? was that when they split up? I started reading QC roughly around the time they made up as friends at that one house party.
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Yes, that's what the term means. Several things went wrong at once and the flame war was a thing of horror that almost got the forum deleted. I cannot remember seeing anything worse in over thirty years online.
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Many times she tends to lean on the fact that she is Trans is why she has it harder that everybody else.
Provide evidence (for what no one else can remember), or expect to be laughed out of court.
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The only thing that bugs me about the recent panels is this idea that Marten has some kind of amazing job just because it's in a library. His job is basically a "Library Assistant" at best if I remember right. It's as entry level as you can get, no qualifications, no real career path for most.
No one actually going through school for their MLS would even want that job. Claire - or any other person going through school for their MLS or other library related degree - being jealous of that just because it's "in a library" would be like someone getting an MBA and aiming for a C-level position but being jealous of someone in the mail room just because it's "in a corporation".
Not sure if that's an issue on the part of the writer or the characters, but it irked me so I just had to vent. :D
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Yes, I've been thinking that. Marten is a dogsbody at best in this job, and has neither motivation nor prospects for advancement there. I suppose from Claire's perspective it's a foot in the door, but surely she will be aiming higher.
If there's anything under the surface of this conversation - and seeing as I complained about a lack of subtext recently, it behooves me to search for it - then maybe this recent storyline is really about a more fundamental conflict between Marten and Claire. And that is Claire's highly motivated career trajectory and Marten's complete lack of interest in pursuing a goal of any kind.
Something else that occurred to me overnight was that Marten is doing the stereotypical guy thing of trying to solve Claire's problems rather than simply actively listening. It's probably more of a Jeph thing, I suppose - one character vents their problems and another neatly solves them in a tidy five-strip series. But often in this kind of situation, where someone needs to unload this kind of stress, I have found that what they really need is a sounding board. Maybe some reflection. I don't think Marten will suggest anything that Claire couldn't work out herself given the opportunity to "talk it out" (to borrow one of Jeph's favourite phrases).
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I pull back my previous comment.
I associated her statement of martens privilege to her being different.
I think her personality is something that marten can be only partly expected to be tolerated.
Again, I pull back my statement.
The problem is we have seen martens struggles. She has not. Assuming he got ahead because of privilege, shows her lack of empathy.
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Thanks.
I dare say that they have talked quite a lot, as couples do, so she probably knows more about Marten than you think. But panic of the sort that we are being shown can cloud judgement very effectively.
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The problem is we have seen martens struggles. She has not. Assuming he got ahead because of privilege, shows her lack of empathy.
You're not wrong there, but I don't think she meant "privilege" in the sense of Trans vs. Cis (Or any other social privilege) in this context. Just that in her view him getting that job at all is a great privilege for him. Maybe it wasn't the best word to use in the context.
Again, at least I think so. Can't presume to speak for the author/characters.
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The only thing that bugs me about the recent panels is this idea that Marten has some kind of amazing job just because it's in a library. His job is basically a "Library Assistant" at best if I remember right. It's as entry level as you can get, no qualifications, no real career path for most.
No one actually going through school for their MLS would even want that job. Claire - or any other person going through school for their MLS or other library related degree - being jealous of that just because it's "in a library" would be like someone getting an MBA and aiming for a C-level position but being jealous of someone in the mail room just because it's "in a corporation".
Not sure if that's an issue on the part of the writer or the characters, but it irked me so I just had to vent. :D
I was startled at that too but then remembered what my friend the librarian has been telling me about that job market. Maybe people with master's degrees really would kill for a job pushing a book cart.
Tai did seem to be pushing Marten onto a career track when she put him in charge of supervising the interns, unless of course that was just her being lazy. So maybe the job is better than it looks.
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There is an old Trinidadian saying
"Seepaul luck is not gopaul luck"
I have a question : will we ever find out why Faye dad committed suicide?
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"I didn't want to turn this into a referendum on your privilege"?
Who talks like this? Good Lord, how tiresome this girl is.
College kids in their 20s talk like that and more often than not those who find it most tiresome are the ones who have privilege. It's not an easy subject to broach because it almost always comes off as accusatory and people can get defensive very quickly.
I'm not sure if this plot is going to get into some deeper issues, but perhaps one of the sources of Claire's anxiety is the self awareness of her own privilege. SMIF and Northampton seem to be a fairly tolerant place, but suppose Claire can't find a job within the area and the best prospect is one in a state where the gender on her birth certificate matters.
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What does it mean?
Edit: Sorry, really vague question. I meant, "a referendum on your privilege." If I have to guess, I think she meant "a discussion of your privilege." I don't want to put words into anyone else's mouth, but that was what I found weird about it, not the word "privilege."
Maybe it's too bad it didn't turn into that discussion, though, because as others have suggested, I don't think his privilege played a part in getting the job in this instance. But then, I think there's a fundamental problem with essentially retconning a comic that was originally played for laughs. If what Claire said was true and there were many qualified people who would kill for that job, then Marten would never have even seen the sign, because surely at least one sober and qualified person would have shown up before Marten did.
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Without sounding facetious (well maybe just a little) in future the author could maybe think of making strips like these into a very special episode to let readers know beforehand
In all seriousness this strip seemed more like a one-off "very special episode" rather than being part of the series
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New comic!
"We named the dog WikipediaSNERK ..." :laugh:
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Oh come on, I know Pintsize can be a hassle, but there's no need to call him a dog. :P
Which is about the only funny thing I found in today's comic. The concept of the story wasn't bad; it just felt, as Chris73 said, like a very special episode.
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In fact if you keep calm, you can easily extract yourself from quicksand. It's panicked flailing that'd get you.
Other than THAT this storyline has been very meh overall.
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Cute but lame
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Shrugs. Quick way to end it, but it was getting tedious. Let's move on to more interesting stories. What's Hannelore doing? What is Steve do8ng?
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Shrugs. Quick way to end it, but it was getting tedious. Let's move on to more interesting stories. What's Hannelore doing? What is Steve do8ng?
We get glimpses of Hannelore whenever Jeph feels like it.
Steve? Cereal. Always eating cereal.
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I’m a little disappointed in Marten here; I kept expecting him to gently correct her about the circumstances surrounding his hiring, but it never happened. Getting defensive wouldn’t have helped anyone and it’s good that he remained attentive, but he shouldn’t have let Claire continue with the assumption that he got the job through nepotism. I realize Claire has a dim view of Tai’s management style already, and maybe that’s what makes this incorrect conclusion easier for her, but allowing her to operate under that false impression is just going to cause problems down the line.
The job was reserved for students; Claire could have applied too. Tai took the chance on a non-student because of previous problems in performance (Nat), and it turned out to be a good choice. In fact, Marten wasn’t completely sure he got the job that day (despite Tai saying “You’re hired!” which I’m sure was partly in jest); when he told Dora the news, he said, “I got the job! Well, I’m not sure, but the front desk person told me to show up tomorrow for training anyway.”
Maybe Tai was still accepting applications thorough the rest of the day and the training session was another step in the interview process? No one else applied/passed the test/met Tai’s or SMIF's requirements, so Marten got the job.
A lot of this could because of her apprehension about job hunting, but she's hurt people before with her projecting and assumption-making. Remember how she behaved when she thought Dora was cheating with Tai? After spending a weekend at Emily's lake house witnessing how chill everyone was with each other? She decided that a poorly formulated conclusion, based on projections of her father, was a good choice to be openly hostile to her BOSS. She can't keep doing it, otherwise I could see it becoming the main source of tension in her and Marten's relationship.
Anyway, sorry for the essay, and hello, nice to meet everyone!
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Welcome! You make some good points, but remember that Claire was working at the library, as an intern, and probably doing more than Marten does.
At least she did for a semester... maybe a year. And probably unpaid, but it's experience which can be more important on your resume/CV.
Nevertheless, such things have nothing to do with the anxiety she's feeling - anxiety is not a rational thought process. In fact, it's exactly the opposite.
She will be fine, and that's really the point of the arc. We've seen her panicking and avoiding the subject, screaming inside. She finally talked about it, and feels better, supported, and loved.
And I think that was the point. Not just of this arc, but of most of the comic's history.
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Panel 4 is good for those cynics who need their heart warmed because it reminds us just how totally and cutely Claire and Marten are in love. At some point, someone (I'm hoping Henry and Maurice) will notice in-strip and ask Marten when he's going to pop the question. That is when things will suddenly get interesting for Marten's relationships character arc.
FWIW, I suspect that, when this arises, it will much like when Claire moved in. They'll realise that they've been behaving like a married couple anyway and just decide to formalise it, mostly for the sake of their families who want to go to town with making a ceremony of it!
Meanwhile, panel 5 tells me that Marten is challenging Claire for the strip's 'Adorkable' character position.
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Wikipedia Jones? Any relation to Encyclopedia Brown?
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Welcome! You make some good points, but remember that Claire was working at the library, as an intern, and probably doing more than Marten does.
At least she did for a semester... maybe a year. And probably unpaid, but it's experience which can be more important on your resume/CV.
Nevertheless, such things have nothing to do with the anxiety she's feeling - anxiety is not a rational thought process. In fact, it's exactly the opposite.
She will be fine, and that's really the point of the arc. We've seen her panicking and avoiding the subject, screaming inside. She finally talked about it, and feels better, supported, and loved.
And I think that was the point. Not just of this arc, but of most of the comic's history.
Quote edited for spacing
I understand that Claire is stressed out, upset, and isn't thinking as clearly as she normally would be, but still I’m frustrated with her; Marten apologized twice about not listening and then attempted to empathize. He was partly in her position before— facing graduation with no guarantee of a decent job after school. Claire makes a gentle mockery of that, “What is that like with a music degree? Did you expect to become a rockstar as soon as you were handed your diploma?” Does she expect to become a librarian as soon as she gets hers? Of course not, that's from where a large part of her anxiety is coming.
We know Marten moved across the country for a relationship that didn’t work out, was considerably depressed for a while, and was stuck in an Office Bitch position from which he was eventually laid off. It may be why Marten doesn't have much ambition. He knows what it’s like to fall short of expectations but wanted to assure Claire that things will be okay, even if you’re the last person to believe that. “Look at me!"
Claire responds with an untrue assumption about his hiring at Smif that hurts him, at least a little. Marten lets it go unchallenged, even though those fundamental misunderstandings about his getting the job are making her reluctant to talk to Marten about these job-related stressors. Now, I'm not suggesting Marten should have started a fight because, again, that wouldn't have solved anything, but if it would have been cleared up, maybe Claire would have been more comfortable opening up.
I’m sure airing her concerns helped, but Claire herself made the realization that it was her own expectations she was projecting onto others (probably through Pintsize’s help; “Are those his expectations, or yours?”). Toward the end of their conversation, Marten clarifies his original point, acknowledging her anxiety, and reminding her that she’s doing everything she can, and if it goes the other way, he’ll be right there.
I'm glad she's coping, and finding solace in her boyfriend, but it is not entirely resolved; she made assertions that were not true. I worry about that trend continuing because I think Claire is good for Marten.
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Welcome! You make some good points, but remember that Claire was working at the library, as an intern, and probably doing more than Marten does.
Not at the time; she was one of the new interns Marten wasput in charge of, if I remember correctly.
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Welcome! You make some good points, but remember that Claire was working at the library, as an intern, and probably doing more than Marten does.
Not at the time; she was one of the new interns Marten wasput in charge of, if I remember correctly.
Which raises the possibility of a story arc about how Marten and Claire handle her being hired in a position senior to Marten - an actual librarian rather than just a general assistant - effectively being promoted over the head of the man who trained her. This traditionally is a male privilege so Jeph could likely get a lot of traction by reversing it and having a woman being promoted over a male who has more experience than her.
The arc would also profitably include Claire adapting to the fact that she maybe takes this a little more seriously... than everyone else.
CLAIRE: "From now on, this library is a serious business!"
TAI: "You should tell the head librarian that. You'll need to wait though, he's busy tripping on something strong in the restricted stacks."
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Marten didn't say anything about his hiring because Claire already knows (no way he hasn't told her the story). He was more concerned to get her into a calmer state in which she wouldn't make a dig like that.
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Panel 4 is good for those cynics who need their heart warmed because it reminds us just how totally and cutely Claire and Marten are in love. At some point, someone (I'm hoping Henry and Maurice) will notice in-strip and ask Marten when he's going to pop the question. That is when things will suddenly get interesting for Marten's relationships character arc.
FWIW, I suspect that, when this arises, it will much like when Claire moved in. They'll realise that they've been behaving like a married couple anyway and just decide to formalise it, mostly for the sake of their families who want to go to town with making a ceremony of it!
Meanwhile, panel 5 tells me that Marten is challenging Claire for the strip's 'Adorkable' character position.
I am honestly hoping they don't end up being married. Dating and marriage are 2 different animals. Marten needs a spine, because with the personality of Claire, being manipulative and a bit mean spirited, arguments will get very very bad.
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They say you can't change people, but in reality people also do change. In any case,Marten and Claire certainly seem to be getting on together better than Marten and Dora did in the end, so I see no reason not to be optimistic. Cautiously so, naturally, as you are correct in saying that marriage is substantially different from dating, at least for a lot of people (myself included).
But I feel that your assessment of Claire is distinctly over-pessimistic - can you provide links which you think justify it, as you failed to for your previous assertion about her?
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It's odd that I didn't get "Wikipedia Jones" as Indiana until I saw the little text tag at the bottom of the comic. My first thought was it was a spoof on Encyclopedia Brown. Usually I'd call that being old but it was the late 70s when I first encountered EB and IJ is only 7-8 years later. Very odd.
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The Clinton romance arc, the revelation of padma arc, this one.....yeah, there is foundation. At least in my perspective.
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Late to the party but can confirm libraries are not the best careers. I have a friend with a bachelors degree in english and works as an assistant manager at a local library. At their pay rate they would barely break 25k a year... Before taxes.
They can't even comfortably afford an apartment with their student loan payments.
And that is a managerial position. Not an entry level library helper.
And this is why they all still live together, apartments are expensive and jobs don't pay much.
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Where I work, former librarians and assistants got hired to do archiving and document scanning. Decent salary compared to the library gig according to them
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totally and cutely Claire and Marten are in love
Marten falls totally and cutely in love a lot, doesn't he?
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He keeps rolling a "1" on his charm rolls.
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The only thing that bugs me about the recent panels is this idea that Marten has some kind of amazing job just because it's in a library. His job is basically a "Library Assistant" at best if I remember right. It's as entry level as you can get, no qualifications, no real career path for most.
No one actually going through school for their MLS would even want that job. Claire - or any other person going through school for their MLS or other library related degree - being jealous of that just because it's "in a library" would be like someone getting an MBA and aiming for a C-level position but being jealous of someone in the mail room just because it's "in a corporation".
Not sure if that's an issue on the part of the writer or the characters, but it irked me so I just had to vent. :D
Yep, that is also one of my issues, see my earlier post below. There are actual librarians at SMIF too, and of course Tai herself (as maybe a general manager of the library? unsure) who may not be doing much actual librarian stuff?
I wouldn't call Marten's position a highly coveted one by people with MLS degrees, but perhaps it's a good way to get a foot in? Or maybe Claire meant that people with MLS degrees have a hard time finding jobs at all and therefore would kill for any job, including Marten's.
Besides, I might be wrong, but isn't Marten 'only' a library clerk or something? There are definitely actual librarians there as well, and Tai herself of course (not sure about her title). I realize that in a competitive field sometimes starting at a relatively low level is a good way to get your foot in the door, but to say many people with better/more degrees than Claire would kill for Marten's job (i.e. not a librarian) seems to be exaggerating a bit.
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totally and cutely Claire and Marten are in love
Marten falls totally and cutely in love a lot, doesn't he?
Actually, I'm not sure he does. Vicky seems to have been him being semi-obsessive not getting the message when a college romance petered out; Faye was a kind of weird crush; Dora was a friends-with-benefits-too-soon 'I have no idea where this ride is going but I've got to hang on or be thrown to my death' sort of thing. That said, Dora and Padma were both relationships that, if they had been given time, could have grown into love.
Claire really seems to have been the first time that Marten has really formed that tight emotional and personal bond with someone. It's clearly something very special to them both. The secret is that the two of them got to be very close and trusted friends before Marten chose to risk going to t he next step of dating and a formal relationship.
Purely my opinion, of course; YMMV.
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"I didn't want to turn this into a referendum on your privilege"?
Who talks like this? Good Lord, how tiresome this girl is.
Someone who has spent far, far too much time in a Massachusetts women's liberal arts college being told that any time a cis straight white male has something that she wants, it's because of his "privilege."
I'm just curious if the line is due to Claire's misreading of the situation and Jeph will address it later (i.e., Tai laying into Claire for unfairly dumping on Martin) or whether Jeph simply forgot how Martin got the job in the first place and was over-eager to bring the issue of "privilege" back into the comic. (The last time, with May--who screwed up her own life by choosing to commit a crime--dumping on Winslow for finally getting a humanoid body was just as forced and unfair, IMHO.)
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I’m fairly certain that this was a case of Jeph not remembering the minutiae of comics he drew years ago. It’s happened before. Strange as it may seem, Jeph doesn’t seem to be as obsessed with QC as some of his fans are.
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I’m fairly certain that this was a case of Jeph not remembering the minutiae of comics he drew years ago. It’s happened before. Strange as it may seem, Jeph doesn’t seem to be as obsessed with QC as some of his fans are.
I dunno, Jeph usually is pretty good in dropping the other shoe later on, as he did with Hannelore going to May in the "Winslow's privilege" arc.
Yes, Jeph may simply have forgotten some details from long ago, but I find it equally plausible that Claire ends up discussing her job prospect anxiety with Tai, with the latter ending up pointing out to Claire that she was unfairly labeling Marten's job as a case of privilege.
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Someone who has spent far, far too much time in a Massachusetts women's liberal arts college being told that any time a cis straight white male has something that she wants, it's because of his "privilege."
<snip>
Ehm...that's a rather ugly stereotype and generalization you're throwing out there
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Someone who has spent far, far too much time in a Massachusetts women's liberal arts college being told that any time a cis straight white male has something that she wants, it's because of his "privilege."
<snip>
Ehm...that's a rather ugly stereotype and generalization you're throwing out there
I think Buggman made it clear that this is his personal experience rather than a stereotype or generalization. He may be guilty of hyperbole, or it just might be that the reality is ugly.
All potential comments about "white male fragility" etc etc etc have been preemptively duly noted. Ugliness happens on both sides of the issue and assholedness is not exclusive to any gender.
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Claire really seems to have been the first time that Marten has really formed that tight emotional and personal bond with someone. It's clearly something very special to them both. The secret is that the two of them got to be very close and trusted friends before Marten chose to risk going to t he next step of dating and a formal relationship.
Purely my opinion, of course; YMMV.
Jeph very deliberately set Marten's relationship with Claire off from all others we've seen in-strip my making him very uncharacteristically assertive in its pursuit. He typically stumbles into relationships but with Claire he took the initiative. I read that as meaning Jeph means this to last.
(IRL I'm a whole lot more like Marten v. 1.0 that Marten v. 2.0, much to Mrs. Goat's amusement.)
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In fact if you keep calm, you can easily extract yourself from quicksand. It's panicked flailing that'd get you.
This does give you all an excuse to enjoy one of the jewels of the 1990s internet: The Quicksand Page http://www.dellamente.com/quicksand/ (http://www.dellamente.com/quicksand/). I'd recommend looking at the safety tips first. (Though please note that the images are higher than 256 colours, and require a fairly modern monitor, and a modem faster than 14.4k. It's also not compatible with Netscape 3.0 or less. :-\)
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Oh wow, does that bring back some memories of horrid 1990s web design! Complete with disclaimers that basically assert that the site won’t look right except on the designer’s monitor.
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And, of course, a "this page is under construction" graphic. 8-)
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Really though, it’s the noisy, distracting, tiled background that is the real winner here…
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"I didn't want to turn this into a referendum on your privilege"?
Who talks like this? Good Lord, how tiresome this girl is.
If someone brought up "my privilege" at any point in a relationship I would end it on the spot.
Accept me for who and what I am, "privilege" (real or perceived) and all. Bring it up as a discussion point AT ALL at any point and/or expect me to apologize for it... k, bie.
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Accept me for who and what I am, "privilege" (real or perceived) and all.
Privilege in some matters may well be something you have without being responsible for it. However, the point is not to force others to accept it (that's for them to think about) but for you to realise that the world is unfair to many people, and what we're calling privilege is one expression of that unfairness. Recognising and acknowledging where you have benefited at the expense of others, even if by an accident of birth for instance, will go a long way towards helping them see you in a better light.
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if you want to complain about the concept of privilege there are better places to do it than my forums
why not try reddit
or a trash can
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literally the only reason these forums are still around is because the mods put so much good-faith effort into running them, if they bailed I'd delete this shit instantly so I didn't have to get any more notifications when some fresh idiot says a bad opinion about claire or whatever
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if you want to complain about the concept of privilege there are better places to do it than my forums
why not try reddit
or a trash can
the joke is that reddit IS a trash can :claireface:
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Author out of nowhere from the top fucking rope, Jesus
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if you want to complain about the concept of privilege there are better places to do it than my forums
why not try reddit
or a trash can
Which is ironic considering that you've brought the subject up in your comic.
Press people's hot-buttons then complain when they get all riled up?
Maybe you should stop trying to be hip and edgy and all that happy horseshit. This comic used to be enjoyable and relatable, and now you have a main character apologizing for being who and what he is... because his girlfriend privilege-checked him.
I'm sorry sir, but at this point I'm ending a years-long readership and association with your comic. It is your masterwork and your artistic license to do as you wish, and I understand that... but the comic is no longer enjoyable or relatable.
Best of luck to you, sir. If you want to take up the debate with me, you can find my email in my profile. Otherwise I'm logging out.
Admin staff -- delete/ban whatever I could care less at this point.
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Well, whatever happens at this point, it's been a pleasure knowing you all. Truly.
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Likewise Tova.
Before the forum gets nuked from orbit, if anyone would like to swap emails or like to contact me on social media, feel free to message me!
It was nice while it lasted.
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I've been lurking here for the better part of a year. I'd like to say that some of the discourse from the last few weeks have been uncomfortable to watch, and I appreciate Jeph's statements
>.<
Also hai~
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The job was reserved for students; Claire could have applied too.
Welcome, knowledgeable new person! I believe you're the first to have remembered that.
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The job was reserved for students; Claire could have applied too.
Welcome, knowledgeable new person! I believe you're the first to have remembered that.
Although, because Marten did end up getting the job, we can infer one of things happening.
Either no one else applied for the job.
Or
No one was qualified enough for the job to begin with.
Given that Claire has made it her life's goal to become a librarian, I imagine she would have kept her ear to the ground about any positions at SMIF. Either Claire was not in a position to apply for the position, thus having to come in as an intern at a later, we can infer two more possibilities about why she didn't.
Either Claire was too young to apply for a position at the library (I never saw a first year student get a job anywhere on campus when I was in college)
Or
Claire wasn't a student at SMIF at the time when Marten got the job. There were a couple of time skips, Claire could have transferred in and so on.
I'd be more inclined to go for the former in this instance, as when Claire was introduced, she seemed younger than Emily or Gabby. If she could get the job, go for the internship, get the foot in the door and make a connection with management.
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Anyway, I miss 1990s web design. I don't miss marquees and wild backgrounds, but I miss pages that lay out their information in a nice, simple way, without trying to eternally cater to the latest thing. I miss the notion that computers were to expedite the transmission of information, not to stymie it. To hell with all these bells and whistles on functions that haven't fundamentally changed since the newsgroup days, to all this "mobile-friendly" nonsense that not only doesn't work on my mobile, but doesn't work on any window I don't maximize.
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I've been lurking here for the better part of a year. I'd like to say that some of the discourse from the last few weeks have been uncomfortable to watch, and I appreciate Jeph's statements
>.<
Also hai~
Welcome, new person!
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"huh buh i'm mad you used the P word" lol die mad about it, idiot
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The right position for mods to take is to do what you think is right! But also if I poke my head in and see idiots being idiots I reserve the right to take a shit on them.
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It costs me less than 90 seconds to ban someone and I laugh the whole time I'm doing it, so I really don't mind
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Didn't Tai tell Marten once that she'd graduated?
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
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"huh buh i'm mad you used the P word" lol die mad about it, idiot
With all due respect, I think the issue is more the nature of the priviledge he's being called out on -- namely, getting the job from Tai even though he didn't even know her at the time -- doesn't particularly make sense.
You've covered the topic before and much better with Winslow and May. That was pretty chill and interesting. This is just weird, and the fact that you're coming to do this in the forums after makes me wonder if you're not in a good place at the moment. What's up, dude guy? Is everything okay?
Can I get you anything? Coffee, a copy of Pitchfork, long flattering fanfiction that doesn't involve shipping?
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"huh buh i'm mad you used the P word" lol die mad about it, idiot
With all due respect, I think the issue is more the nature of the priviledge he's being called out on -- namely, getting the job from Tai even though he didn't even know her at the time -- doesn't particularly make sense.
You've covered the topic before and much better with Winslow and May. That was pretty chill and interesting. This is just weird, and the fact that you're coming to do this in the forums after makes me wonder if you're not in a good place at the moment. What's up, dude guy? Is everything okay?
Can I get you anything? Coffee, a copy of Pitchfork, long flattering fanfiction that doesn't involve shipping?
I think you must've missed the long diatribe about how Jeph 'pushing these hot button issues' were making someone, in a long worded pompous way, part way with the comic because this is just outrageous. it was pretty ridiculous
Also, multiple people here are not complaining about the specific nature of the privilege addressed in the strip, but just the word. 'if my partner ever brought up my privilege I'd dump them' for example..
Edited to reflect that a comment I thought was removed had just jumped back a page.
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I was just laughing at the Schroedinger's Grad Student line, myself... :oops: :-\
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Well, whatever happens at this point, it's been a pleasure knowing you all. Truly.
Likewise
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ah yes, new comic. Wait, is this whole thing actually a vehicle for Marten to get a wake-up call, and get some more direction in his life?
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If this is all a head-on to Marten going back to school, I quite approve. He could use something to do, story-wise.
That said, a lot of this is really pretty at odds with my experience with the world. I know academia can be kind of weird, and maybe this is a case of it, but...
- while there may be certain very specific careers with hard educational requirements (e.g. medical doctors), it's really quite unremarkable in my experience for people to wind up in fields for which they lacked the formal qualifications.
- In my experience, once you're in, you're *in*. People voluntarily leave jobs for all sorts of reasons, but generally are only involuntarily separated for poor performance or budgetary reasons. Someone whose been in a job for years getting let go because a more qualified candidate happened along would seem truly remarkable to me.
- In general, while highest degree completed informs a person's salary since that's just how it works, once one is hired, people stop caring too much about the paper and start caring far more about a professional knowledge, skills and abilities. Admittedly this I can see academia being a bit different about. But using myself as an example, my being a chemist by education (vs mathematician, physicist or engineer) is more "weird trivia" within my workgroup than something that has *any* impact on my work or future employability within my specific field. My 15 years of experience is *vastly* more important that my educational misalignment.
YMMV, and all that jazz. Expect seriously, if anyone ever finds themselves looking for a job, don't be afraid to apply for ones that seem interesting but you lack the paper qualifications for.
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*snip*
...are you familiar with the phrase "don't poke the bear"?
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Well, since we have the author here we can, gasp, *ask* for clarifications.
Jeph, what did Claire have in mind when she said "your privilege"? I see more than one possibility and more than two.
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Marten has lots of privileges over Claire in terms of being white and cis but I don't think they helped him get THIS particular job. Tai gave him the job and Tai seems like one of the least prejudice people in the comic. She may be flighty but Marten got his job more or less out of luck in my opinion.
I don't think Claire is some terrible person or manipulative. She's wrong here but she's not being cruel or mean spirited. From her POV he stumbled on the lottery and doesn't get it but to him this is just the job that doesn't suck but isn't his dream. Kind of like what Claire might have to do. It'd be kind of funny if she ended up in the music business under similar circumstances. Like a record store manager or something.
Also, if Marten and Claire aren't fighting why are people upset about their interaction? They're talking things out. Neither of them is perfect but neither is being abused here.
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the joke is that reddit IS a trash can :claireface:
And here I always thought is where Beelzebub and company go potty.
I remember a giant pink eraser from my childhood with the motto "Everybody makes misteaks" emblazoned on it.
I saw the P in "pobody's" right away - took me two more readings to see the N in "nerfect"
and the mistake with misteaks just glared at me, daring me to say something.
Oh, I skimmed the last few pages because I was AFK/AFC for most of the week and didn't quite realize the Sword of Damocles was unsheathed.
As for the P-word. People who use it, tend to use it as a broad brush when closer inspection shows it is a subset of a subset of a subset and has more to do with social circumstances being self perpetuating.
What infuriates me though is that model is strongly encouraged and even lauded - just dropping some names here to think about ... Kennedy Bush Koch Rothschild to name a few
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
FOUR YEARS AGO
good lord
(real time, obvs, not comic time)
And if that little story arc (which reads very similarly to this one) didn't change Marten's direction, it's hard to see how this time it will be different.
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...are you familiar with the phrase "don't poke the bear"?
urk. it's 3pm in Australia and I'm actually still up from the day before. I'm taking a massive hit to my wis score across the board.
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Well done, Claire! Now you're less anxious, but Marten is more anxious about being "in the wrong place" and "stealing your job".
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Tai, as we all know has a weird job arrangement, a sort of tenure-by-implied blackmail. I don't think that she's ever threatened to use it but it's out there. The thing is that, should the couple she saw having sex in the library ever quit or retire, she (and, by extension, Marten) will lose her guarantee. Then, the only thing protecting the non-student staff will be their competence. That alone could lead to major changes!
I wouldn't expect a clear-out; too much chaos would arise if they tried to replace everyone with students. However, Tai might have a hard time adapting to not being able to do whatever she wants anymore.
FWIW, I do think that Tai loves the job and Smif College and that she'd try hard to keep her position, even if that means painful lifestyle changes.
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For a routine nitpick - consider Marten's left arm in the third panel. Looks pretty broken to me; the forearm doesn't line up with the elbow.
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Suggestion from the Subreddit: This entire arc is basically foundation/set-up for Marten giving up his job for Claire. Personally, I wonder if Jeph is signalling that he intends to have Marten finally taking charge and looking for his dream job and, perhaps, finding that his dream job wasn't entirely what he expected.
Remember that Marten was originally Jeph's self-insert. Jeph was, like Marten, a 9-5 wage slave. Unlike Marten, Jeph chose to quit and try to see if he could make a living out of his creative talents. I'm wondering if Jeph has decided to revisit this and send Marten on a path not dissimilar to his his own. Maybe it will be his blog (which seems to take the place of the QC comic in Marten's life in early strips)? Or maybe Hannelore will come home and, with Emily on keyboards, Deathmøle will become his creative focus?
Discuss...
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Oh wow, does that bring back some memories of horrid 1990s web design! Complete with disclaimers that basically assert that the site won’t look right except on the designer’s monitor.
"Although the name "Quick" sand literally implies "living-sand", it is not alive. "
Wonderful!!!
But.. just in case you missed it...
"This might give the appearance of the ground "coming to life" but it is certainly not in any way alive."
LOVE IT!
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
LOL she did, time to rewrite this comic! Turns out it's hard to remember 3800 comics
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
LOL she did, time to rewrite this comic! Turns out it's hard to remember 3800 comics
Turns out with enough people constantly dissecting the comic, someone is prone to remember.
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I'm reading Paul McCartney - A Life, and at the point where I'm at, being at the top of your game can really suck rocks.
If that was after he recorded “Simply having a wonderful Christmas time” then it was karma.
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
LOL she did, time to rewrite this comic! Turns out it's hard to remember 3800 comics
My head cannon is that Marten himself forgot. Seems in character for him.
Also I cheated a bit. I have a script where I can search for a QC comic by the names of the characters in it.
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"huh buh i'm mad you used the P word" lol die mad about it, idiot
I agree! Everyone needs to stop questioning cis white male Jeph Jacques' interpretation of privilege. How could anyone have a better understanding of privilege than cis white male Jeph Jacques??
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The concept of Privilege can be discussed in the appropriate part of the forum - in an existing thread (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30487.0.html), in fact.
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You'd think that's obvious. Ah well.
Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
LOL she did, time to rewrite this comic! Turns out it's hard to remember 3800 comics
My head cannon is that Marten himself forgot. Seems in character for him.
Also I cheated a bit. I have a script where I can search for a QC comic by the names of the characters in it.
It does seem in character. Not to mention that with Tai just continuing on, it's easy to forget and overlook.
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Hey everybody, remember the time that Pintsize hit his friend with a dildo? That was fun! I like liking things! :mrgreen:
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Yep. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2787)
LOL she did, time to rewrite this comic! Turns out it's hard to remember 3800 comics
The Story Continuity Monster rears its ugly head.
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I'm going to be surprised if this arc leads to Marten doing anything new to change his work/career path. Marten has always been pretty much been the anti-ambitious, non-career-focussed, no-ladder climbing dude who tends to go where the winds blow since the beginning of the comic. The opposite of Claire, pretty much. He may occasionally realize that drifting where the work/career winds blow means he's at the mercy of those winds, but I think it's going to take him actually being booted out of his present job (again!) for him to really do something about it. Or perhaps some extra nagging from Claire - if Marten drags his feet after that, there's some potential for conflict between them.
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I'm reading Paul McCartney - A Life, and at the point where I'm at, being at the top of your game can really suck rocks.
If that was after he recorded “Simply having a wonderful Christmas time” then it was karma.
Two words: Heather Mills.
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I'm going to be surprised if this arc leads to Marten doing anything new to change his work/career path. Marten has always been pretty much been the anti-ambitious, non-career-focussed, no-ladder climbing dude who tends to go where the winds blow since the beginning of the comic. The opposite of Claire, pretty much. He may occasionally realize that drifting where the work/career winds blow means he's at the mercy of those winds, but I think it's going to take him actually being booted out of his present job (again!) for him to really do something about it. Or perhaps some extra nagging from Claire - if Marten drags his feet after that, there's some potential for conflict between them.
Ah, but this is no typical Marten script! Where Claire is concerned, we see atypical Marten behavior. She inspired him to seize the initiative to start the relationship in the first place - something he had never done before - and she may well still have that influence on him. For all Claire's faults, she absolutely brings out the best in Marty, and he in her. They really are good for each other.
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I'd just assumed that while Tai had graduated, she'd started a graduate career of some sort and Marten meant "if she ever finishes her graduate work". Some people can drag that out forever (I have a cousin who was over 30 by the time she finished school - of course, that was with multiple doctorates and post-doc work.)
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I've recently learned that a lot, if not most Library Sciences degrees in the US require a student to do a long period of unpaid internship. And that many will not count paid work towards this. It's possible that Claire was in a situation where she knew of the job that Marten got, but it would have been counterproductive to apply for and get it, as it wouldn't have counted toward her degree and she would still have had to do that internship.
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I'm going to be surprised if this arc leads to Marten doing anything new to change his work/career path. Marten has always been pretty much been the anti-ambitious, non-career-focussed, no-ladder climbing dude who tends to go where the winds blow since the beginning of the comic. The opposite of Claire, pretty much. He may occasionally realize that drifting where the work/career winds blow means he's at the mercy of those winds, but I think it's going to take him actually being booted out of his present job (again!) for him to really do something about it. Or perhaps some extra nagging from Claire - if Marten drags his feet after that, there's some potential for conflict between them.
I think that'd be shitty. I mean I get not liking your partner lacking ambition but this is the man she chose to date. If he likes his job and doesn't want to quit for something else, that's valid too. He pays rent, he's a good boyfriend and friend. He does purse his music with the band even if it's not for acclaim. Marten leads a good life and while having goals is important, I don't think this is a giant flaw.
Encouraging him is great but nagging wouldn't be.
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I'm going to be surprised if this arc leads to Marten doing anything new to change his work/career path. Marten has always been pretty much been the anti-ambitious, non-career-focussed, no-ladder climbing dude who tends to go where the winds blow since the beginning of the comic. The opposite of Claire, pretty much. He may occasionally realize that drifting where the work/career winds blow means he's at the mercy of those winds, but I think it's going to take him actually being booted out of his present job (again!) for him to really do something about it. Or perhaps some extra nagging from Claire - if Marten drags his feet after that, there's some potential for conflict between them.
I think that'd be shitty. I mean I get not liking your partner lacking ambition but this is the man she chose to date. If he likes his job and doesn't want to quit for something else, that's valid too. He pays rent, he's a good boyfriend and friend. He does purse his music with the band even if it's not for acclaim. Marten leads a good life and while having goals is important, I don't think this is a giant flaw.
Encouraging him is great but nagging wouldn't be.
I really hate the idea that your career and your ambitions within it define you. Like, it can define some people. If they are happy with that being their thing, that they want to be the best whatever etc, that is cool. But honestly my whole life my happiness doesn't come from my job. Don't get me wrong, I like my job. I have a cool job. But that isn't what makes me happy. My friends, my wife, my kids, board games, video games, tabletop rpgs make me happy. My job lets me keep doing all those other things, and keep me in a house. It isn't who I am, and I don't need to be actively trying to "better my career".
And Marten doesn't either. If he is happy where he is, that is good enough.
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I get that it's to keep the comic PG and all, but ladies, if you sit up in bed while having a discussion with your significant other, do you really feel the need to cover your boobs with the sheet the way this comic depicts, and the way all TV shows seem to depict?
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I get that it's to keep the comic PG and all, but ladies, if you sit up in bed while having a discussion with your significant other, do you really feel the need to cover your boobs with the sheet the way this comic depicts, and the way all TV shows seem to depict?
Sadly the advertisers demand it. Adult situations, profanity, and violence will slide, but no nudity no matter how tasteful.
Things were getting heavy since I last visited. Glad there’s still a message board to return to.
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True, and Giggle can be pretty heavy-handed (they already forced Jeph to remove a link to Oglaf from the main page). I don't know how much of his income is advertising versus selling merch or Patreon backers, but I don't think it fair to ask him to take the pay cut.
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I really hate the idea that your career and your ambitions within it define you....Don't get me wrong, I like my job. I have a cool job. But that isn't what makes me happy. My friends, my wife, my kids, board games, video games, tabletop rpgs make me happy. My job lets me keep doing all those other things, and keep me in a house. It isn't who I am, and I don't need to be actively trying to "better my career".
And Marten doesn't either. If he is happy where he is, that is good enough.
I agree with you completely; I think if someone's greatest work-related ambition is making sure they have a job that's not too shitty, pays the bills and gives them a little extra to do fun things outside work, that is a noble ambition indeed. Marten clearly subscribes to this philosophy as well, most of the time anyway. Claire however, does not seem to, as evidenced by all her years at school pursuing the educational requirements of her chosen career. And it's been my experience that people who tend to put a lot of time and effort into their career ambitions tend to have less respect for those willing to "settle" for "a job that pays the bills". We may have seen some hints of this in the previous discussion between Marten and Claire.
Yes, Claire was worried about her career prospects post-graduation and this worry influenced the things she said, but the shots she took at Marten about the way he got the library job were Not Cool. I hope she learns to respect Marten's relative lack of career ambitions compared to hers, or the good ship Clairten could be in for rough seas ahead.
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But Claire, plasma donation saves lives AND gives him that initial funding to open the savings account! Plus money to put into it on an ongoing basis if he so chooses!
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Does Claire know about Marty's history with savings accounts and sexy guitars?
Pintsize, you're a pervert and so are your acquaintances.
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... I have a script where I can search for a QC comic by the names of the characters in it.
And you deserve fulsome praise. You have immeasurably enhanced my archive-fu.
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Plasma donation is a really good thing to do, and you can donate more often than you can donate red blood cells. But I don't see how donating blood plasma makes you any money. Unless...
*googles*
Silly me.
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Does Claire know about Marty's history with savings accounts and sexy guitars?
Yes, and she's mocked him for it: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431
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So, uh, what happens if Claire gets her big break and it involves moving interstate?
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...that has so much synchronicity with major QC plotlines, that I now suspect it will happen.
(Namely, Marten following Vicky to Massachusetts, and Faye NOT following Angus to NYC.)
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Does Claire know about Marty's history with savings accounts and sexy guitars?
Yes, and she's mocked him for it: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2431
More like she was mid mock before Clinton went all Clinton on her.
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A little late to this, but I'll stick my nose in.
I've got Marten's job, basically. I'm a library paraprofessional at an academic library. I got my foot in the door because I was working on a degree related to the academic library's mission and had previous experience at a bookstore and as a student worker at another branch. I've been employed there for 5 years now.
My job is a somewhat cushy, low-key one but someone in Claire's position would not want it. They might even be offended if they were offered it. How do I know? Because I'm now going to school for an MLIS and have talked about this quite a bit with the head of the Reference department. If I got my degree now I'd have a major advantage (MLIS and a Masters in a STEM discipline) and could legitimately request 2-3x my current pay as an entry level librarian. If I didn't have that STEM degree it'd be more like 2-2.5. I would not ever be considered for a librarian position without my MLIS, even for the super-specialized library I help run. Librarians are protective about their degrees.
As per salary.com a Library Assistant makes 42.7K, which I find deeply, darkly amusing. The median for a normal Librarian is 62.5K.
I found the jealousy for Marten's job to be... interesting. Claire should, upon graduation, be able to find librarian jobs at a public library fairly easily (there are a decent amount out there based on the listservs I've joined). A position at an academic library is a horse of another color, but Marten wouldn't be at all the hindrance to Claire in this scenario... her problem would be the 75+ year old reference librarians that haven't retired yet.
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To me, today's strip reminds us of Marten's neuroses and sense of inadequacy in many areas. I don't think that he believes that he can get another job particularly easily, if at all (only getting the library job by luck probably doesn't help here). So, on a certain level, his brain isn't wired to think about finding his 'dream job' is possible or even plausible.
Poor Claire, though! She's learning the hard way that being a supportive girlfriend with a personality like Marten involves walking him through the steps sometimes!
That aside, am I the only one who thinks that Barry is going to turn out (a la Jimbo) to be someone important? I'm thinking that he's a researcher into reproductive genetics and that he's just very hands on in getting his samples! :-P
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I'm going to be surprised if this arc leads to Marten doing anything new to change his work/career path. Marten has always been pretty much been the anti-ambitious, non-career-focussed, no-ladder climbing dude who tends to go where the winds blow since the beginning of the comic. The opposite of Claire, pretty much. He may occasionally realize that drifting where the work/career winds blow means he's at the mercy of those winds, but I think it's going to take him actually being booted out of his present job (again!) for him to really do something about it. Or perhaps some extra nagging from Claire - if Marten drags his feet after that, there's some potential for conflict between them.
I think that'd be shitty. I mean I get not liking your partner lacking ambition but this is the man she chose to date. If he likes his job and doesn't want to quit for something else, that's valid too. He pays rent, he's a good boyfriend and friend. He does purse his music with the band even if it's not for acclaim. Marten leads a good life and while having goals is important, I don't think this is a giant flaw.
Encouraging him is great but nagging wouldn't be.
Yes, this. I’ve been thinking this right along.
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So, uh, what happens if Claire gets her big break and it involves moving interstate?
That's been something I've been wondering for a while. When you are a librarian you go where the work is, even when it's halfway across the country.
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I'm wondering if we're going to have an odd arc following on to this.
I'm expecting Claire to decide that Marten needs motivation but her experiences with Clinton suggest that her usual methods are probably wrong on some level. So, she goes to Dora who, as an ex, ought to have some suggestions. Dora admits that she never had any handle on Marten in a constructive way but refers Claire to Tai who, much to Claire's surprise, knows lots of constructive motivational tricks for Marten (as his boss, she needed to work out where those buttons were).
Meanwhile, Marten is smart enough to know that he's not responding in the way Claire expects. At work, he asks Tai's advice and she tells him that goal-seeking is something she's only done in relationships, not careers, so she's not the best font of advice. She suggests he talk to Dora who, as an entrepreneurial businessperson, ought to be a subject-matter expert.
Basically, we have a long arc, probably mixed through Fayebles and Brintoliot arcs running for several hundred strips. The arc is basically Dora mentoring Marten on finding his dream career track (with plenty of humourous missteps) and Tai trying to teach Claire how to motivate her boyfriend in a way that isn't nagging or manipulative. The end of this? Well, I'm not sure but Strip 3749 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3749) made me realise that Dora/Tai and Marten/Claire have somehow developed into bizarre reflections of each other (the neurotic sensible one and the excitable shipper). I've just can't help but wonder what will happen if all four of them suddenly realise this; maybe a weird strip when, briefly, Marten and Dora realise that they confused Tai and Claire (maybe Claire borrowed Tai's phone and the two of them didn't realise it was Claire with whom they were interacting) and the girls admit that they confused Marten and Dora for a moment too (because, from a distance, it really is difficult to tell the two of them apart).
The above is really a bit of stream-of-consciousness on my part; I'm sure with time I'd be able to make it sound a bit more coherent but, as of now, it's just a summary of my feeling of where this may go.
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I get that it's to keep the comic PG and all, but ladies, if you sit up in bed while having a discussion with your significant other, do you really feel the need to cover your boobs with the sheet the way this comic depicts, and the way all TV shows seem to depict?
Sadly the advertisers demand it. Adult situations, profanity, and violence will slide, but no nudity no matter how tasteful.
Things were getting heavy since I last visited. Glad there’s still a message board to return to.
Yeah, like I said, I get why it's that way in the comic, that much is obvious. I was just wondering if women really did it that often in real life?
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In my experience, no, not often. Usually once you get naked together they are happy to stay that way. Sometimes, however, they have body image issues and need some extra reassurance that yes, you really do want to see their naked body and aren’t turned off by it.
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Depends on how cold it is.
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I can relate to Claire's assessment of how lucky Marten is to have gotten his job. I graduated with a Computer Science degree, and before I even got around to looking for a job my mom found out that the high school she works at needed to hire a Computer Tech teacher. Normally I'd be totally unqualified, but at the time in Minnesota there was no way for anyone to get a license to teach Computer Tech. The school was so desperate that my "interview" consisted of the Principal immediately showing me the classroom and asking, "do you think you can work with this?"
And now here I am, starting my fourth year of teaching.
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Personally, I've got the feeling Claire is overreacting a bit, but that's on par with her current stats of mind.
Marten didn't have a friend in the building at the time, he just reacted to a job posting in a newspaper, and found the iambic pentameter, that's about all he did. Of course Claire is a bit, well probably both jealous and annoyed, to a good extent rightly so. I would consider it funny if Tai quit for whatever reason and Claire got her position.
Also, I wouldn't call Marten getting that job "privilege", it's just sheer luck. And given Claire being Trans everything probably feels like an uphill battle, even if it didn't have to be, and that adds to the whole situation. Fighting all those battles probably brought her to a better position than taking the easy route, but you're allowed a breather every now and then.
Even though she has the qualifications on paper, I would not recommend her to replace tai. She is ill suited for management role. I know her life has been rough, but when you are a manager you have to be fair, regardless of your battles.
I never said it was a good idea. Might still work out since Marten probably would stand up to her and correct her ways. But that's something we'll probably never see anyway. Maybe she'll take a position in a NY theater library and run into Angus regularly. that's something I consider as probable as my previous idea.
This is a chance for her to grow as a person. As it stands, she is barely tolerable. She is manipulative, treats her Trans like a disability, and rolls with a chip on her shoulder.
All of the attributes which make a terrible boss. Or a perfect boss who is a tyrant
holy shit this is a bad post. you should be ashamed of yourself
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(A formal warning was issued at the time of that post)
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Aaaandd..This is why I stopped coming here. I lurk, same as I did for the last 10 years.
When I popped my head above the parapet to try and discuss a topic relevant to my heart and feelings, my feelings were shot down for being unprogressive.
I was told by a forum member here, if I remember correctly, he/she would "like to take a shit on my life".
Its always been a problem for authors that their readers like to imprint their own fallacies and fantasies on the author's work.
Whether or not your work is meant to inspire discussion, the wrong kind of discussion is just, well, wrong.
I don't even think the main culprits got the blame.
I said my piece ages ago, but it was edited away from the justice-fare this place has become. Apologies to all those who just wished to enjoy a comic.
Maybe don't take something that has happened in a COMIC and put the character's traits onto one of your own bugbears.
Or maybe don't take something that has happened in a COMIC and extrapolate it out into a tenous connection from your own life, then argue about it.
Jeez people, just enjoy a COMIC. Its 1m per day to read. Does it really bear 24 hours per day of introspection and breaking down?
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A little late to this, but I'll stick my nose in.
I've got Marten's job, basically. I'm a library paraprofessional at an academic library. I got my foot in the door because I was working on a degree related to the academic library's mission and had previous experience at a bookstore and as a student worker at another branch. I've been employed there for 5 years now.
My job is a somewhat cushy, low-key one but someone in Claire's position would not want it. They might even be offended if they were offered it. How do I know? Because I'm now going to school for an MLIS and have talked about this quite a bit with the head of the Reference department. If I got my degree now I'd have a major advantage (MLIS and a Masters in a STEM discipline) and could legitimately request 2-3x my current pay as an entry level librarian. If I didn't have that STEM degree it'd be more like 2-2.5. I would not ever be considered for a librarian position without my MLIS, even for the super-specialized library I help run. Librarians are protective about their degrees.
As per salary.com a Library Assistant makes 42.7K, which I find deeply, darkly amusing. The median for a normal Librarian is 62.5K.
I found the jealousy for Marten's job to be... interesting. Claire should, upon graduation, be able to find librarian jobs at a public library fairly easily (there are a decent amount out there based on the listservs I've joined). A position at an academic library is a horse of another color, but Marten wouldn't be at all the hindrance to Claire in this scenario... her problem would be the 75+ year old reference librarians that haven't retired yet.
Yeah, over in this neck of the woods a Library Assistant makes about 22k/year. We go through them like crazy sometimes because it's literally on the same level as any other "starter job" and there's no real advancement possible unless you're REALLY committed to the field and go get the applicable degrees. You can't just "work your way up" because there is no "up" from shelving books. The only qualifications are being physically able to move a book cart and knowing the alphabet for the most part.
Even in the current job market, someone with library science related degrees wouldn't even want that position, it'd only look poor on a resume. (Source: Interviewers telling me exactly that when seeing it on my resume. :D )
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Honestly, that sounds kind of great. Untenable for me due to location restraints, but a girl can dream.
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I can relate to Claire's assessment of how lucky Marten is to have gotten his job. I graduated with a Computer Science degree, and before I even got around to looking for a job my mom found out that the high school she works at needed to hire a Computer Tech teacher. Normally I'd be totally unqualified, but at the time in Minnesota there was no way for anyone to get a license to teach Computer Tech. The school was so desperate that my "interview" consisted of the Principal immediately showing me the classroom and asking, "do you think you can work with this?"
And now here I am, starting my fourth year of teaching.
Welcome, new person!
You didn't even need to recognize iambic pentameter? :-)
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I was told by a forum member here, if I remember correctly, he/she would "like to take a shit on my life".
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Say what you want about our mods being over enthusiastic but we absolutely would not tolerate anybody telling you the want to take a shit on their life.
Unless Jeph said it, since he owns the place.
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End of the Month! What's been the highlight of the summer so far?
The denouement of Faye & Bubbles' first time 17 (34%)
Bubbles uses Psych Warfare on Pintsize 6 (12%)
Brun, Clinton, Elliott doing the foot-in-mouth tango 3 (6%)
Roko: "You have soda bread?" 3 (6%)
Permanent Sex Hair 3 (6%)
"She's being brave, you twit." (with disappearing glasses!) 3 (6%)
Under the Sea with Hanners and Winslow! 3 (6%)
Emily ponders mating practices of Dinosaurs 2 (4%)
"Screaming Internally" face 2 (4%)
Swordsmary Stabitha gets a spray! 2 (4%)
Pintsize gives Marten a clue-by-dildo upside the head! 2 (4%)
It's a Big Deal (Reaction to Faybles) 1 (2%)
"It's YOU who is the dork about it!" 1 (2%)
Samantha vs. a Dremel 1 (2%)
Claire's exam anxiety and Pintsize 1 (2%)
Total Members Voted: 50
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Aaaandd..This is why I stopped coming here. I lurk, same as I did for the last 10 years.
When I popped my head above the parapet to try and discuss a topic relevant to my heart and feelings, my feelings were shot down for being unprogressive?
<stuff>
Maybe next time you want to be accepted into a community, you don't compare them to the Hitler-youth.
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A little late to this, but I'll stick my nose in.
I've got Marten's job, basically. I'm a library paraprofessional at an academic library. I got my foot in the door because I was working on a degree related to the academic library's mission and had previous experience at a bookstore and as a student worker at another branch. I've been employed there for 5 years now.
My job is a somewhat cushy, low-key one but someone in Claire's position would not want it. They might even be offended if they were offered it. How do I know? Because I'm now going to school for an MLIS and have talked about this quite a bit with the head of the Reference department. If I got my degree now I'd have a major advantage (MLIS and a Masters in a STEM discipline) and could legitimately request 2-3x my current pay as an entry level librarian. If I didn't have that STEM degree it'd be more like 2-2.5. I would not ever be considered for a librarian position without my MLIS, even for the super-specialized library I help run. Librarians are protective about their degrees.
As per salary.com a Library Assistant makes 42.7K, which I find deeply, darkly amusing. The median for a normal Librarian is 62.5K.
I found the jealousy for Marten's job to be... interesting. Claire should, upon graduation, be able to find librarian jobs at a public library fairly easily (there are a decent amount out there based on the listservs I've joined). A position at an academic library is a horse of another color, but Marten wouldn't be at all the hindrance to Claire in this scenario... her problem would be the 75+ year old reference librarians that haven't retired yet.
Yeah, over in this neck of the woods a Library Assistant makes about 22k/year. We go through them like crazy sometimes because it's literally on the same level as any other "starter job" and there's no real advancement possible unless you're REALLY committed to the field and go get the applicable degrees. You can't just "work your way up" because there is no "up" from shelving books. The only qualifications are being physically able to move a book cart and knowing the alphabet for the most part.
Even in the current job market, someone with library science related degrees wouldn't even want that position, it'd only look poor on a resume. (Source: Interviewers telling me exactly that when seeing it on my resume. :D )
Sounds about right, good insight! Come to think of it saying that I have Marten's job is a bit false: I actually do a hell of a lot more than just stack books. That's because my boss is actively encouraging my development and I know the subject matter so well. I'm more or less a mini-librarian, I just lack the degree to get the pay and title. I do reference work, weeding, collection development, handle large scientific donations, make and edit libguides, etc.- of course all with my boss's supervision, but it's a ton of latitude for a paraprofessional. Even then someone with a degree wouldn't want my actual position... I know as soon as I get mine I'm jumping right to a higher one, no looking back.
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we absolutely would not tolerate anybody telling you the want to take a shit on their life.
Unless Jeph said it, since he owns the place.
In this case it was Jeph.
Let's not forget that this forum is not a public service - it's Jeph's private territory and none of us is entitled to anything while we're here.
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we absolutely would not tolerate anybody telling you the want to take a shit on their life.
Unless Jeph said it, since he owns the place.
In this case it was Jeph.
Let's not forget that this forum is not a public service - it's Jeph's private territory and none of us is entitled to anything while we're here.
Ha! I did wonder. Didn't search.
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Jeez people, just enjoy a COMIC. Its 1m per day to read. Does it really bear 24 hours per day of introspection and breaking down?
Maybe this comic discussion forum isn't for you.
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we absolutely would not tolerate anybody telling you the want to take a shit on their life.
Unless Jeph said it, since he owns the place.
In this case it was Jeph.
Let's not forget that this forum is not a public service - it's Jeph's private territory and none of us is entitled to anything while we're here.
Ha! I did wonder. Didn't search.
No, it wasn't Jeph!! Way to spread misinformation to prove your agenda. Point proven.
Jeez people, just enjoy a COMIC. Its 1m per day to read. Does it really bear 24 hours per day of introspection and breaking down?
Maybe this comic discussion forum isn't for you.
It certainly isn't.
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No, it wasn't Jeph!! Way to spread misinformation to prove your agenda. Point proven.
What point? You could just tell us when this happened, if it still matters to you.
It certainly isn't.
You've said so before, but you're still here saying it again. Why? If you want us to put something right that you think is wrong, then help us by explaining; then perhaps you'd feel able to stay after all.
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Reading the posts in this thread about library jobs and wishing it was that easy to get one here in the UK (and, indeed, that they paid quite so well). Libraries here are government-funded and due to the government insisting on giving as little money to local councils as possible, it's near-impossible to become a librarian/library assistant here (unless you want to be on a zero-hours contract as a relief librarian and get maybe four hours of actual library work per month if you're lucky) as most libraries are severely underfunded or even closing down altogether.
Academic libraries are still an option, but even then you're competing against hundreds of other applicants, and in both cases knowing the right people and having people skills are more important than knowing about books, IT systems, and libraries themselves. As a failed prospective librarian myself I can relate to Claire's feelings a lot in the current arc (incidentally I've ended up working in music now instead, thus rendering my English Literature degree useless) - and I disagree with the notion that Claire would turn her nose up at a Library Assistant job, given how hard these jobs are to get even if you have work experience and/or the right qualifications.
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if you don't like the comic discussion forum you could just, not post here
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Common sense on the interwebs?
Its madness, madness I tells ya! Madness!
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No, that's Jeph. Madness posted further up.
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Common sense on the interwebs?
Its madness, madness I tells ya! Madness!
Common sense in general. I sometimes feel a general lack of people "wasting" a millisecond of thought on what they say or do.
"How should I know what I'm thinking without hearing myself talk?"
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Basically, we have a long arc, probably mixed through Fayebles and Brintoliot arcs running for several hundred strips.
Brintoliot is a splendid word. I vote we make it canon.
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Also if I was spreading things I knew were false it would be disinformation. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I like the direction the story is taking. Claire and Marten have had quite a charmed relationship and that's great, I needed some sweetness in my life. This isn't really an issue between them but I like a life issue becoming a problem for them. That I think breaks more relationships than people realise; not that I think this will break them, but how they deal with it will possibly help give them the tools to deal with bigger issues in the future.
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Basically, we have a long arc, probably mixed through Fayebles and Brintoliot arcs running for several hundred strips.
Brintoliot is a splendid word. I vote we make it canon.
Consider it done.
(http://bestanimations.com/Military/Weapons/artillery-cannon-animated-gif-15.gif)
On another note, I still have the pit-scars on the inside of each elbow from the years of plasma donations when I was in college. $25 for two donations a week ($10 for the first, $15 for the second) helped keep me going through those years, and gave me a couple of hours of reading time each week.
It's 35 years later, but at least when I need blood drawn, he phlebotomist has a target.
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I like the direction the story is taking. Claire and Marten have had quite a charmed relationship and that's great, I needed some sweetness in my life.
I'm just glad to see them back in the comic. Hopefully they'll work out the current difficulty they're having as a couple, and actually start working on life stuff without hopping whatever bus Hanners is on.
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I’m fairly certain that this was a case of Jeph not remembering the minutiae of comics he drew years ago. It’s happened before. Strange as it may seem, Jeph doesn’t seem to be as obsessed with QC as some of his fans are.
I dunno, Jeph usually is pretty good in dropping the other shoe later on, as he did with Hannelore going to May in the "Winslow's privilege" arc.
Yes, Jeph may simply have forgotten some details from long ago, but I find it equally plausible that Claire ends up discussing her job prospect anxiety with Tai, with the latter ending up pointing out to Claire that she was unfairly labeling Marten's job as a case of privilege.
Yay, I think this is the first time I have ever called anything correctly! :laugh:
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By the way, I am glad I did not post too soon after Jeph started posting here last week.
When I initially read his posts, it sounded an awful lot like nobody was allowed to have a bad opinion of Claire and as if he hated the discussion surrounding privilege in the comic in general.
After re-reading the thread, I'm pretty sure he posted as a reaction to 1-2 specific users, and his comment regarding "bad opinions about Claire" was also about a specific post (I believe about her using her trans-status as a disability?).
After all, I believe Jeph intends us to view and discuss every character equally, including discussing possible behavioral imperfections as they may occur (which they do, for every human being).
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Jeph historically has been fairly relaxed about criticism of the comic and characters because he writes them as people with flaws. You picked up on the correct issue he had.
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Did he slightly modify what Marten's saying in the last panel of #3819?
I could've sworn that originally it was something like " I'm not quite sure what her deal is anymore" (or very similar)
Now he says "It's never been entirely clear what her deal is."
Just curious.