Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 02 Sep 2018, 08:35

Title: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 02 Sep 2018, 08:35
I don't have a poll ready for this one, after the... uhm, interesting comments in last week's WCDT.

Remember to be civil, wipe your feet at the door, mind the gap, guard your lug wrench, etc...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Sep 2018, 09:50
What I do with my lug wrench is my own business.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 02 Sep 2018, 10:43
What I do with my lug wrench is my own business.

Definitely, definitely your business.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 02 Sep 2018, 11:00
Case, are you really lug shaming?
For shame on you. For shame.
 :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 02 Sep 2018, 11:27
Don't wrench, don't tell.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Sep 2018, 11:36
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 02 Sep 2018, 11:43
Ohlordno, not the lug wrench thing again. 

I did a search, but the forum search only goes back up to 9999 days. 


...wait, that's like, 27 years.  The early lug wrench days must be on a now-inaccessible thread in some locked away board... Still the posts go back to 2014 and that was well past the early lug wrench days. 

But I did find this, dated 1/5/2013;

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8349439535_da53e328d4_b.jpg)

I don't recall the context, something silly about a lugwrench army. 

Ah, that's it!  One word, not two.  Here it was (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28329.msg1122376.html#msg1122376). 


<unofficial unpaid board historian>
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 02 Sep 2018, 11:49
So what you're saying Carl-e, is that the lug wrenches are all your fault?
 :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 02 Sep 2018, 12:11
Oh, no.  In fact, I think I found the first thread in which Kugai melted someone's lug wrench.  Completely unprovoked. 

https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27868.0/prev_next,prev.html#new (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,27868.0/prev_next,prev.html#new)

It was the beginning of a bit of a feud...

https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28017.0/prev_next,prev.html#new (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28017.0/prev_next,prev.html#new)

https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28373.0/prev_next,prev.html#new (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28373.0/prev_next,prev.html#new)


It got worse after that. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 02 Sep 2018, 17:56
Oh, yeah, Carl-E, you missed that, didn't you? :(

Uh, Kugai has stopped posting for a very sad reason. He can't see anymore. :(
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 02 Sep 2018, 19:03
Oh, yeah, Carl-E, you missed that, didn't you? :(

Uh, Kugai has stopped posting for a very sad reason. He can't see anymore. :(

I thought about that: There are text-to-voice software that can process html - maybe there's one that can also navigate BBS?

I mean... If he wanted to.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 02 Sep 2018, 19:17
Even assuming that accessibility software works flawlessly, I suspect that getting used to it is something that'd take time to get used to.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 02 Sep 2018, 19:23
Even assuming that accessibility software works flawlessly, I suspect that getting used to it is something that'd take time to get used to.

Well, to be brutally blunt: So does learning to navigate the world without eyesight.

I just miss the guy  :oops:

Am I being wildly inappropriate? Sometimes I can't tell.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 02 Sep 2018, 19:29
I miss him as well.  I didn't even know what happened until now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 02 Sep 2018, 19:38
We all miss Kugai, who for me was one of my favourite forumites.

And so, perhaps, instead of being morose that circumstances means that he is no longer able to join us on the forum, we should look to him as an example of how to be irreverent to the seriousness that seeps into the WCDT. Let's laugh, make jokes and not take a comic that serious.

And melt a few lug wrenches too while we're at it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 02 Sep 2018, 19:39
Oh, wow.  Thanks for letting me know.  I actually met him on a different comic forum before I found QC.  It was a pleasant surprise to find him here. 

We're almost exactly the same age, just a few months difference.  So we got a lot of the same references, despite growing up on opposite sides of the planet...

Which is probably the only thing keeping me from going for a visit. 


[Sigh]


Oh, and the comic's up. 

Pintsize needs to stop trying to help...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 02 Sep 2018, 19:46
I too hate spreadsheets. I hate them with the burning, fiery passion of hell's hottest forges.

Also...Claire. You have lived with Marten how long? What on earth made you think Marten would use a budget?!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Baleanopter on 02 Sep 2018, 19:50
I rather like spreadsheets. Such handy things for sorting information. I was introduced to the concept via a personal word processor machine that had basic spreadsheet functions as a new feature, back in the days when the Windows operating system was still just a pup.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 02 Sep 2018, 19:55
Spreadsheets are love.  Spreadsheets are life.

...Okay, maybe not.  But I do enjoy them for some things.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 02 Sep 2018, 20:27

Also...Claire. You have lived with Marten how long? What on earth made you think Marten would use a budget?!

Without wanting to start anything this whole arc is not painting Clare in a good light. I mean, generally speaking, one of the first things you do when you move in together is do a budget, even if its as simple as Martens is yet its coming up now?

Like Marten has learnt to not disregard what Clare says and dig deeper (and thats good) but has Clare learned to communicate better?

Seems to me Clare was doing a boy who cried wolf thing in that she'd say something about being stressed and Marten would ask whats wrong and she'd tell him everythings ok so Marten learnt that Clare didn't need help with stress, until she did and then Marten had to admit his failure whereas Clare doesn't think she had anything to do with it

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 02 Sep 2018, 20:31
Maybe they just keep their money separate and don't ask as long as the rent/bills are paid.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 02 Sep 2018, 20:35
*reluctantly shuffles to the lectern, tapping a pack of cigarettes into his palm as a nervous habit*
Hi, my name's Sordid...
I, uh...
*he peels off the top of the pack and pulls out a cigarette, flicking it between his fingers*
I learned to use spreadsheets when I couldn't find a decent character sheet for D&D.
That led to learning the rest of the Office suite. Then HTML and CSS. Then SQL.
*he lights the cigarette and stuffs the pack and lighter back into his pockets*
Today, I'm an implementation specialist, helping Timekeeping software speak with Payroll software for hundreds of clients.
*he looks at the cherry on the cigarette, then shrugs*
Spreadsheets.
*takes a drag off the cigarette*
Not even once.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 02 Sep 2018, 21:18
They’re both right.  Spreadsheets are invaluable for my budgeting, but also depressing when I realize how much I have leftover.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: ImVeryAngryItsNotButter on 02 Sep 2018, 21:20
Never have I felt so alienated by a comic strip before today's.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 02 Sep 2018, 21:36
I'm with Claire.  Excel, at least when I design the sheet for my own purposes, is a thing of beauty.  Not so much when I'm handed one made by someone else.

(And damn Microsoft for changing the user interface.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 02 Sep 2018, 22:40
(And damn Microsoft for changing the user interface.)

Agreed. Another thing that's annoying is how they translate the formulas in localized versions. Not  problem if you work in a unilingual environment, but with users using three different versions, it can be challenging to explain what exactly went wrong with their calculations.

Also, pivot tables!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 02 Sep 2018, 22:52
Spreadsheets are pretty handy. As longas you know what's going on. A lot of people understand their own spreadsheets but fail to make other people understand them, and that's where the issue begins. And some spreadsheets are just purr clusterfuck, those need to die in a nucular explosion.

To an extent, spreadsheets can be a poor man's database, you just meed to do it right. Basically, a spreadsheet can be treated like a single database table, or at least excel csn do it. On a side note: I don't like databases. I can't really handle them, for whatever reason. But Spreadsheet databasing? That I can do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 02 Sep 2018, 22:57
Even if you SELL a kidney, Marten, that'd still require a budget EVENTUALLY.  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Sep 2018, 23:26
Something tells me that this is the point where Claire introduces Marten to 'Independent Adult Living - Lesson 1'. I do understand why he automatically rebels at the thought of having to plan stuff like this. I'm sure having a budget makes it harder to maintain his personal illusion of being the 'footloose and fancy free' young adult but you have to face up to stuff like this eventually!

Notice that Claire is eating with a fork off of a plate? That's a symptom (maybe even an advantage) of having stayed with her mother for most of her student life. She's always had nutritious meals served properly; she's never had to subsist on ramen and noodles on occasion, the way Marten and Faye likely have. Thus she's never had the cause to learn how to use chopsticks!

Finally, I'd ask Pintsize to stop enabling damaging behaviour but I suspect that would be expecting too much of him!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 02 Sep 2018, 23:32
On the other hand, Pintsize's enabling behaviour might just be the thing that's signalling Marten  that it's a bad idea.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 02 Sep 2018, 23:34
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourApprovalFillsMeWithShame
(or https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiAdvice)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 02 Sep 2018, 23:51
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.

What are you melting?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Sep 2018, 00:00
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.

What are you melting?

Butter on this delicious slice of toast.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 03 Sep 2018, 00:04
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.

What are you melting?

Butter on this delicious slice of toast.

I was about to suggest cheese on toast.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Sep 2018, 00:30
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.

What are you melting?

Butter on this delicious slice of toast.

I was about to suggest cheese on toast.

That was yesterday.

Also I love budgeting spreadsheets. Makes me feel like an adult and is genuinely helpful!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 03 Sep 2018, 01:02
Cheese whiz on toast.

Yum....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 03 Sep 2018, 02:54

Ohh...
Money issues raise their head.
One of the main reasons for relationships to fail...

Throw in professional jealousy, some (minor?) communication difficulties, differences in life expectations/future planning/priorities...

These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 03 Sep 2018, 03:06

These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...

On the plus side it might mean more Marten based strips so thats a good thing
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Sep 2018, 03:19
These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...

Personally, I think that you're letting your personal negative viewpoint on this relationship colour your interpretation of the strips, Joe.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 03 Sep 2018, 04:18
While I don't think we're going to see the end of Marten and Claire's relationship in this storyline.

What we are seeing is the end of the cutesy-lovey-dovey stage of their relationship and we're moving to a point where they're starting to notice the other's flaws.

In Claire's case, its realising that her boyfriend has no real plans for his life and that its a long way before he's an adult.

In Marten's case, its realising that Claire has a little too much of a control streak in her and is more than a little ruthless.

This storyline could be setting the stage for future plots involving Claire and Marten and their struggles with their relationship. I'm not saying they're going to break up, but when you have two people who are just complete opposites, its going to be tough. Not to mention that Claire's got a bit of a dominant streak that might raise some uncomfortable memories for Marten. And Marten's constant laissez faire attitude to life might be incredibly frustrating to someone with a lifeplan like Claire.

On a related note, the lifeplan Claire has and her seeming unwillingness to be flexible in that respect seems to be setting her up for a major crash back to reality. What happens if she doesn't get a job in a library? What happens when she realises there could be 1000 candidates for one position? What happens if she does get the job and finds it is not what she thought it was going to be? Claire is somewhat tightly wound and that kind of realisation could be devastating.

One last point. Claire is playing with fire right now and she doesn't realise it. Marten might be the most passive character in the comic, but in the past when he's been pushed enough, he's let loose a salvo of some devastating comments about people and their flaws, in particular Faye and Dora. Claire might want to slow down, or she might end up hearing something rather painful.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 03 Sep 2018, 05:21
There's friction building up. Marten will be able to handle it better than Claire I think. Claire will need to burst her own bubble, and the question is whether the relationship will survive. Although being Trans, I have the feeling she was somewhat sheltered from the really bad things, mostly leaving her steaming in her own anxieties and expectations.

There will be a big bang, the question is how metaphorical that will be.

It probably will push Marten on a path he was avoiding to take.

This whole Arc will be a learning experience for both marten and Claire, with the latter realising she could've had it worse herself. Although the most important part is her social circle is accepting her the way she is, and she can both relax and open up. Yes, there will be crude remarks, but that's just Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Welu on 03 Sep 2018, 05:48
I'm not sure how having a marginalised status shelters you from the "really bad things". Claire is acutely aware of her personal safety (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2426), like many others in her situation. I could guess if her focus of the last couple years mainly have been her parents' divorce, studies and transition, then that may have left her comparatively unready to others her age for things like moving out of home and establishing their first serious relationship.

~~

I use spreadsheets all the time in work and made a lot of use of them when planning my wedding. I like using them a lot because my brain just seems to read the info out of them pretty easily. I'm pretty sure the ones for my wedding only made sense to me, even though I tried to make it more parsable because I was sharing them with other people. The day went well so they did the job. Though I probably do use colour coding way too much.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 03 Sep 2018, 06:12
These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...

Personally, I think that you're letting your personal negative viewpoint on this relationship colour your interpretation of the strips, Joe.

Personally, I think you are incorrect.
Surely you cannot deny the things are raised have happened?
Nor that they are known stressors on relationships...?

I see behaviours taking place (and the above replies certainly seem to agree with my 'take' on what i am seeing)
I am merely commenting on the plain facts that such behaviours, if left unchecked, can escalate and lead to the ending of said relationships.

My like or dislike of Claire (or, indeed, Marten) has no bearing on that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Sep 2018, 06:19
These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...

Personally, I think that you're letting your personal negative viewpoint on this relationship colour your interpretation of the strips, Joe.

Surely you cannot deny the things are raised have happened?
Nor that they are known stressors on relationships...?

Actually, yes, I can deny some of the things you said have happened.

There are no money worries, only Claire suggesting Marten should be thinking ahead. The pair have no indication of being under financial strain at all.

There is little 'professional jealousy' too. Marten hasn't got it in him to be jealous, as Claire's clear perplexedness when he admitted that he didn't know why any qualified person would want his job clearly demonstrated. Claire certainly didn't want his job, only a job (and preferably a more senior one).

The only thing that seems to have happened is the communications breakdown that definitely seems to have been resolved aside from both party's sense of guilt at failing to listen but just assume. I think that it is more likely that the two of them will be more likely to try to be extra-nice as a result rather than be offended!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 03 Sep 2018, 06:23
These guys are starting to push a number of the 'relationship implosion' buttons...

Personally, I think that you're letting your personal negative viewpoint on this relationship colour your interpretation of the strips, Joe.

Surely you cannot deny the things are raised have happened?
Nor that they are known stressors on relationships...?

Actually, yes, I can deny some of the things you said have happened.

There are no money worries, only Claire suggesting Marten should be thinking ahead. The pair have no indication of being under financial strain at all.

There is little 'professional jealousy' too. Marten hasn't got it in him to be jealous, as Claire's clear perplexedness when he admitted that he didn't know why any qualified person would want his job clearly demonstrated. Claire certainly didn't want his job, only a job (and preferably a more senior one).

The only thing that seems to have happened is the communications breakdown that definitely seems to have been resolved aside from both party's sense of guilt at failing to listen but just assume. I think that it is more likely that the two of them will be more likely to try to be extra-nice as a result rather than be offended!

Personally, I think you are letting your desire to see the relationship work, colour your interpretations of the strips.
(ETA: Feel free to check my previous edited comment which I posted to early...)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 03 Sep 2018, 07:18
Actually, yes, I can deny some of the things you said have happened.

There are no money worries, only Claire suggesting Marten should be thinking ahead. The pair have no indication of being under financial strain at all.

There is little 'professional jealousy' too. Marten hasn't got it in him to be jealous, as Claire's clear perplexedness when he admitted that he didn't know why any qualified person would want his job clearly demonstrated. Claire certainly didn't want his job, only a job (and preferably a more senior one).

The only thing that seems to have happened is the communications breakdown that definitely seems to have been resolved aside from both party's sense of guilt at failing to listen but just assume. I think that it is more likely that the two of them will be more likely to try to be extra-nice as a result rather than be offended!

Claire and Marten might not have money worries now, but the fact that Marten can't even open a savings account is a big red flag for their future. A quick check for the legal requirements told me that Marten would need to have a minimum daily balance of $300 to maintain the savings account. So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

While Claire might not have professional jealousy, she did attack him for getting a job that he was not qualified for (and before someone says she said "I'm not attacking you", let's just remember that adding "I'm not X" to the start of a sentence is still going to have someone acting like X). Not to mention that when Marten asked her if they weren't dating, would she kill him for his job, Claire said she would prefer not to answer that.

What is happening here is what I said before. Marten and Claire are no longer in their young-people-in-love phase of their relationship. They're people-in-a-relationship. Gone is the cutesy "I love you. No, I love you more" and its replaced with them looking at each other as people, warts and all.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Sep 2018, 08:51
Certainly I've heard from people with a lot of experience listening to relationship problems that differences over handling money are common and dangerous.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 03 Sep 2018, 09:23
Indeed so. And considering Marten's hatred of spreadsheets, I hope Claire has the wisdom to start him off with a relatively simple one. Just inflow-outflow, with one set of columns for income, another for expenses, and maybe one more set to show what's left.

Rule of comedy however, says she's going to set up him up with one more suited to running a mid-size corporation, thus turning him off the whole budget concept even more.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 03 Sep 2018, 09:52
So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account. :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 03 Sep 2018, 10:21
So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account. :roll:

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 03 Sep 2018, 10:39
Cheese whiz on toast.

Yum....
Vegemite with plenty of butter, especially on sour dough.  (Thank you, my Australian Brothers and Sisters.)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course Jeph is setting up conflict in Marten & Claire's relationship - without it they're static characters and static characters are boring.  For cryin' out loud, he's writing them like real people in a real relationship!  A bump doesn't signal a breakup.  Further, I read 2807-2808 (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2807##) to mean Jeph intends their relationship to be durable.

~~~~~~~~~~~

While searching for the cite above, I stumbled across #2836 (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2836).  Claire may already know about the circumstances of Marty's promotion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 03 Sep 2018, 11:56
So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account. :roll:

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

Idk man, I'm not the person saying that anyone without a budget isn't "really an adult" and that anyone who doesn't have a savings account is bad with money or just isn't planning.

More than likely, he makes enough to get by and not much more than that. The time he got the guitar is one of the few times he has ever seemed to have any money, it isn't showing a pattern of behavior when the sample size is 1. And yeah, it might have been a good idea to save it, but poor people get told all the time "Hey you can never have anything nice, remember that one time you bought something nice, that is why you are where you are."

He seems to get by and pay his bills and not be going into debt. I know a hell of a lot of adults, even with budgets, that don't seem to manage that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 03 Sep 2018, 12:52
So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account. :roll:

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

Idk man, I'm not the person saying that anyone without a budget isn't "really an adult" and that anyone who doesn't have a savings account is bad with money or just isn't planning.

More than likely, he makes enough to get by and not much more than that. The time he got the guitar is one of the few times he has ever seemed to have any money, it isn't showing a pattern of behavior when the sample size is 1. And yeah, it might have been a good idea to save it, but poor people get told all the time "Hey you can never have anything nice, remember that one time you bought something nice, that is why you are where you are."

The problem with making "enough to get by and not much more" is if you lose your job, you're scrambling to find another before next month's bills come due. And if you can't find another one within a couple of months (and one with income roughly equal to the one you lost), then you're facing eviction and/or foreclosure; in other words, homelessness. Having roommates helps forestall this, but they can only carry you so long - if they could easily afford rent by themselves, they'd likely be living by themselves.

A good way for Marten to start a savings account IMO, is to have his employer direct deposit his check into a bank with low of no minimum balance requirements. Such banks are not easy to find, but are worth searching for. Long as he's not spending every cent of his paycheck every time, he'll gradually build up a balance in the account.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 03 Sep 2018, 13:01
Man, if you believe the only thing that is needed for people to stop living paycheck to paycheck is for them to make better choices, then you live a much more privileged life than most people I know.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Sep 2018, 13:18
So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account. :roll:

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

I think the point was more how judgemental your post sounded against people with no savings account. Either he is bad with money or doesn't plan for emergencies - saying that kind of thing tars a lot of people. I don't think you meant to, mind, just a way of interpreting what you wrote.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 03 Sep 2018, 13:33
Honestly, in the discussion of privilege, Marten is fairly privileged in general when it comes to financial stuff. Not because he has money (he doesn't), but because if an absolute disaster was to happen, that he himself couldn't cover, he has two loving parents who both are implied to be very well off financially. I'm sure he would do everything within his own power to deal with it himself first, but I seriously doubt he would ever be homeless.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 03 Sep 2018, 15:34
There's this guvmint poll which asks people if they could cope with a sudden financial emergency. Like $400. More than half said "No". This is WORRISOME.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 03 Sep 2018, 15:53
There's this guvmint poll which asks people if they could cope with a sudden financial emergency. Like $400. More than half said "No". This is WORRISOME.

I mean, recently I gave 50 dollars to a friend to help him buy a bicycle cause his car broke down (in the permanent kind of "cheaper to just find another 1k junker than fixing this one). He had no way to get another car, but with a bike at least he could get to work and back and not lose his job (also 10 miles of bike riding a day is probably doing a good thing for his fitness I guess. Not fun in the Georgia heat though).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 03 Sep 2018, 17:18
Even if you only have enough to get by, having a budget makes sense. $x for rent means I can spend $y and $z on food, gas and insurance etc.
But not having one doesn't make you a bad adult. I have one but it's not formal and certainly not an Excel sheet.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Sep 2018, 18:36
I didn't bother with a budget when I lived in SF (one of the pros of being rent-controlled was not having to worry about huge increases).  My pay went straight in the bank for rent/bills.  anything leftover was gravy.  Tips averaged to enough pocket money to cover luxuries and indulge myself.  Then again, I *was* about Marten's age at the time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 03 Sep 2018, 20:07
I currently have 3 jobs, one crappy full time tech support job so I can have lousy health insurance (worse than most cheap ACA plans), and two part time. 

But I went so far into debt in the time period after my last well-paying teaching job went south that every thing I make - plus some - is going into paying down the debt. 

Months I can't make ends meet, I raid my retirement fund, which is now less than half the size it used to be.  Then I wind up owing penalties to the IRS for early withdrawal, and have to borrow to cover that... 

No, I don't have a savings account.  I used to, but the economy has not been nice the last 10 years or so, and 56 is a really hard to hire age in the teaching field. 



My budget beats me up an a regular basis.  I stopped looking a long time ago. 




So, I'm sitting out the rest of this financial discussion.  Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. 

can't really afford much more...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 03 Sep 2018, 20:26
Comic's up!  Jeph runs the gamut of eye expressions in frames 3 and 4.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 03 Sep 2018, 20:40
And this, dear children, is why we neverever come between a lovestruck librarian and the object of her adoration (least not without protective eyewear):

Love Blinds ...

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 03 Sep 2018, 22:24
See Claire? Nothing is as 'bad' as it seems. You did overreact a bit, but given the circumstances that's not too bad and forgivable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 03 Sep 2018, 23:14
I like Tai’s wincing in the third panel, presumably to help protect against the glare from Claire’s sudden glowing…
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Sep 2018, 23:35
We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Big of Jeph to draw a correction strip, isn't it? :wink:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 03 Sep 2018, 23:47
We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Big of Jeph to draw a correction strip, isn't it? :wink:

I think I still have a blind spot from that... glow.

Also, it'd be in character for Marten to overlook the detail, either because he did actually forget, or he tried to keep friction down at the moment. Or a combinations of both.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 04 Sep 2018, 01:36
I guess we're safe from implosions for the time being.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Near Lurker on 04 Sep 2018, 02:48
I'd just assumed she meant Natasha, but I guess that doesn't make sense, does it?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 04 Sep 2018, 02:50
Natasha was a mess.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 04:00
Clearly Marten is osmium.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 04 Sep 2018, 04:55
And this, dear children, is why we neverever come between a lovestruck librarian and the object of her adoration (least not without protective eyewear):

Love Blinds ...

(Yeah yeah)... Love BLINDS (Love blinds) Yeah yeah (Love blinds)

SHOO-dooo-wop, shoop shoop...


(URL for those who are clueless (https://youtu.be/E0LAs7X5ybE))
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 04 Sep 2018, 04:57
Clearly Marten is osmium.
Oganesson.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Welu on 04 Sep 2018, 05:04
Fair play, Jeph. This strip me me laugh pretty hard.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 05:20
Oganesson.
Oganesson isn't stable, though, and AFAIK its density isn't actually known.

Osmium, OTOH, is stable, and is known (and extremely high) density.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 05:28
Clearly Marten is osmium.
Oganesson.

"He's not dense, he's heavy?"

(Fascinating stuff (https://physics.aps.org/articles/v11/10), btw ) )
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 04 Sep 2018, 06:51
We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 04 Sep 2018, 06:54
I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 07:07
Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Is it lonely there at the centre of the universe?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 04 Sep 2018, 07:26
We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.

In my experience, university libraries are noisy places, because young adults cannot be quiet for more than 5 minutes. (Get off my lawn!) Of course, data point of 2, and my first university was tiny compared to most others, apparently.

My current university, bless them, has silent floors, where if you are heard making unnecessary noise, you are quietly told to hush or leave. Claire could not be there, because I will call shenanigoats if she doesn't have a theme song.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 04 Sep 2018, 07:27
Oganesson.
Oganesson isn't stable, though, and AFAIK its density isn't actually known.

Osmium, OTOH, is stable, and is known (and extremely high) density.
I thought you were referring to Claire calling him "noble".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 04 Sep 2018, 07:30
Aww.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 07:32
I was, but I was calling him noble and dense.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 07:36
I was, but I was calling him noble and dense.

If Oganesson were a gas at standard conditions (which is not at all clear), it would be the densest noble gas known to exist. 

That is, for values of 'density' and 'noble' that can be applied to an element with a half-life measured in microseconds, that has been synthesized only in single numbers of atoms, and is expected to have a positive electroaffinity (https://physics.aps.org/articles/v11/10) - which doesn't matter so much, since most chemical reactions happen on timescales beyond the half-life of Oganesson.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 07:38
Osmium is a noble metal, though, that is the densest stable element known to exist.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 04 Sep 2018, 07:44
Claire obviously likes to reject reality and substitute her own. That's OK, as long as she can handle the "sync" with real life. But the way I see it, it's balanced out by her working against herself every now and then.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 07:52
Claire Humans obviously likes to reject (sic: objective) reality and substitute her their own (reality). That's OK, as long as she they can handle the "sync" with real life, which most humans do not manage for timescales exceeding the half-life of a pissed-off transactinide.

Claire is a human being.

FYP
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Sep 2018, 08:18
A human being with strong needs for safety which she depends on structure to provide.

She may be scared that she's wound up intimate with someone who doesn't track his finances.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 04 Sep 2018, 08:22

Also...Claire. You have lived with Marten how long? What on earth made you think Marten would use a budget?!

Without wanting to start anything this whole arc is not painting Clare in a good light. I mean, generally speaking, one of the first things you do when you move in together is do a budget, even if its as simple as Martens is yet its coming up now?

Like Marten has learnt to not disregard what Clare says and dig deeper (and thats good) but has Clare learned to communicate better?

Seems to me Clare was doing a boy who cried wolf thing in that she'd say something about being stressed and Marten would ask whats wrong and she'd tell him everythings ok so Marten learnt that Clare didn't need help with stress, until she did and then Marten had to admit his failure whereas Clare doesn't think she had anything to do with it

Underlining is mine.
I just wanted to point out that that is not necessarily true. When me and my gf moved in together, we only discussed aspects in more general terms, i.e. what our max budget would be for our rental place. Apart from that, we only make budgets for certain things, like vacations, but not for our day-to-day life. We basically just pay separate things and more or less keep an eye on whether we are more or less paying our fair share.

I do realize that our approach is a relatively less common one, and perhaps it only works well since we have similar incomes and spending habits, but so far it has been totally fine for almost 7 years. Just wanted to mention that different approaches work for different people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 04 Sep 2018, 08:36
I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Meh, was Claire really trying to get her facts straight though? It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight. If Claire had asked Tai about the details of Marten's employment, the conversation here would've gone quite different.

From me, Claire would've gotten kudos if she had gotten the facts from Tai first, before fussing to Marten about it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 08:44
<snip>

Underlining is mine.
<snip>

Also depends on culture - some of the best justifications presented here (cf. eg. themacnut's post above) to support the stance that budgeting is a skill without which an adult homo sapiens cannot be considered an adult apply only in the US and similar societies, that have virtually no social safety net, where social security contributions are not automatically deduced from paycheques, and where employers actually use cheques to pay wages.

Eg. in Ireland & Germany, employers and employees each pay half of social security contributions, where 'social security' is an umbrella term for health insurance, unemployment insurance, retirement plans (in Germany, also often care-insurance). Typically, the employer transfers both their-, and their employees social security contributions to the respective institutions - i.e. social security is deduced from a paycheck as if it were a tax.

Meaning that even people who have never made a budget in their lives enjoy strong protections against the most extreme vagaries of life, i.e. illness, unemployment, homelessness and hunger.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 08:48
Oh, but it's so much more convoluted than that in the US.

Employers are supposed to take all of the expected taxes out of paychecks and transfer them, and Social Security and Medicare taxes are supposed to come out. Those are actually the two most important ones for employers to get right, IIRC.

Social Security and Medicare taxes are the easier ones, but then there's federal, state, local, and school taxes, that can be difficult to calculate, so often the employer will get it wrong, and you'll either owe money or be owed money by at least one taxing body.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 04 Sep 2018, 10:53
Oh, but it's so much more convoluted than that in the US.

And this isn't even touching on being self-employed...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: zechstyr on 04 Sep 2018, 11:29
We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.

In my experience, university libraries are noisy places, because young adults cannot be quiet for more than 5 minutes. (Get off my lawn!) Of course, data point of 2, and my first university was tiny compared to most others, apparently.

My current university, bless them, has silent floors, where if you are heard making unnecessary noise, you are quietly told to hush or leave. Claire could not be there, because I will call shenanigoats if she doesn't have a theme song.

Can confirm that libraries are noisy places nowadays.  The ol' shushy librarian is a stereotype we try to squish.  My library's set up as a collaborative work area with some areas specifically designated as quiet zones.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Lucina on 04 Sep 2018, 11:30
I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Meh, was Claire really trying to get her facts straight though? It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight. If Claire had asked Tai about the details of Marten's employment, the conversation here would've gone quite different.

From me, Claire would've gotten kudos if she had gotten the facts from Tai first, before fussing to Marten about it.

I'm sorry but why would Claire specifically ask Tai, when Marten didn't correct her? She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong. That she realized how her behavior was wrong when she found out, as well as that Marten was deliberately holding back the information to give her space to be upset and work it out, is pretty much what she'd need to do in this situation. Where the original wrong assumption came from would need Jeph to clarify, she's clearly picked up bits and pieces but we don't know exactly what.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 04 Sep 2018, 11:35
And this isn't even touching on being self-employed...

Or even multiply employed or having variable income, or having a mix of 1099 (self-employment and other things that aren't in the scope of employment) and W-2 (employment) income.

(For a few years, I had to do my taxes twice, too, because my dad used to show livestock under my name, so I got 1099s for the premiums from that, and had to calculate my taxes with and without the 1099s included to know how much he owed me for taxes.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Sep 2018, 11:41
Can confirm that libraries are noisy places nowadays.  The ol' shushy librarian is a stereotype we try to squish.

In the university library which my wife was deputy head of in her last job, there was a period when the students found it necessary to shush the librarians.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 11:50
She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong.

Neither did she have a reason to assume that the idea she had was right - hypothesis testing is not only for scientists; most modern societies cherish critical thinking, even while many of their members treat their prejudices and biases as "fundamental and universal truths, until proven otherwise denial of their defectiveness has become impossible" (*)



(*) With the added corollary that error will only be acknowledged when all who could feel the merest hint of embarrassment or discomfort have long passed away, and that as soon as the new truth has become accepted, nobody must ever mention that parties unknown have once believed in quite different 'truths'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Lucina on 04 Sep 2018, 12:32
She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong.

Neither did she have a reason to assume that the idea she had was right - hypothesis testing is not only for scientists; most modern societies cherish critical thinking, even while many of their members treat their prejudices and biases as "fundamental and universal truths, until proven otherwise denial of their defectiveness has become impossible" (*)



(*) With the added corollary that error will only be acknowledged when all who could feel the merest hint of embarrassment or discomfort have long passed away, and that as soon as the new truth has become accepted, nobody must ever mention that parties unknown have once believed in quite different 'truths'.

I mean, sure, but most of us probably have some detail off about our partner's life before we got together that we think we know, but don't. That's not exactly unusual.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 12:54
I mean, sure, but most of us probably have some detail off about our partner's life before we got together that we think we know, but don't. That's not exactly unusual.

Ain't that the truth ...  :-D

Fwiw, in my headcanon, Claire 'just happened' to be around when she struck a conversation with Thai, and brought up the conditions of Marten's employment as casually as possible, since Marten had worried about it himself. She felt a little guilty about going behind his back, but figured that where Marten's wellbeing is concerned, it's better to be safe than sorry, particularly given his laisez-faire approach to finance and employment.

Since Claire is so 'casual' going about her little it's-for-their-own-good schemes that even her brother smells them from a mile away, Thai probably read her like a book before she had finished the first sentence, and started asking some questions.

Or maybe this is not the first time that Claire has confided in Thai? In my alma mater, more experienced grad students would feel a duty to advise and assist their fledgeling peers, up to & including providing the occasional shoulder to cry on.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 04 Sep 2018, 13:20
It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight.

It also works equally well if Claire was worrying over Marten's job security out of concern for him, leading to Tai explaining that he didn't get the job just because he had a friend there.

Of course, that would require not jumping to a negative conclusion about Claire, which seems to be a difficult thing around here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 04 Sep 2018, 13:30
Definitely, DEFINITELY not melting my lug wrench.

What are you melting?

Butter on this delicious slice of toast.

I was about to suggest cheese on toast.

That was yesterday.

Also I love budgeting spreadsheets. Makes me feel like an adult and is genuinely helpful!

I have been a praticing adult for decades and someday I may even get it right.

Man, if you believe the only thing that is needed for people to stop living paycheck to paycheck is for them to make better choices, then you live a much more privileged life than most people I know.
Privaledge has nothing to do with it.
I know people on the edge of poverty as well as those living the upscale life with six figure - repeat - six figure - incomes that live paycheck to paycheck
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 04 Sep 2018, 13:45
It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight.

It also works equally well if Claire was worrying over Marten's job security out of concern for him, leading to Tai explaining that he didn't get the job just because he had a friend there.

Of course, that would require not jumping to a negative conclusion about Claire, which seems to be a difficult thing around here.

That's true, that is a possibility. It's however not the impression I got from the cadence of Tai's initial correction. My impression on how the comic read to me has nothing to do with jumping to negative conclusion or whatever. I don't have a negative general impression of Claire, quite the opposite, actually, but if the comic to me reads in a way that makes Claire's behavior seem negative, then I'll mention that the same as I would for any other character.


 

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 04 Sep 2018, 15:43
I'm sorry but why would Claire specifically ask Tai, when Marten didn't correct her? She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong. That she realized how her behavior was wrong when she found out, as well as that Marten was deliberately holding back the information to give her space to be upset and work it out, is pretty much what she'd need to do in this situation. Where the original wrong assumption came from would need Jeph to clarify, she's clearly picked up bits and pieces but we don't know exactly what.

The likely scenario was that Claire went into the library looking a little down, with Tai asking what was up, because Tai is a good boss and a good friend. Which probably lead to Claire recounting the argument and Tai prodding with some questions. Its not Claire asking Tai, its Tai stepping in with a correction.

Claire is someone who only gets part of the story and goes off before catching the rest. And its blown up in her face several times. Claire needs someone to take her to one side and remind her to stop, think and listen.

And if Claire is wondering why Marten didn't say anything, my uncle once told his son "Always let your wife have the last word in an argument. Because anything you say after that is the start of another argument." That said, he divorced my aunt and my cousin is separated from his own wife, so definitely not the best piece of "advice" he could have given.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 04 Sep 2018, 16:47
Claire is someone who only gets part of the story and goes off before catching the rest. And its blown up in her face several times. Claire needs someone to take her to one side and remind her to stop, think and listen.

No offence, CR, but I think that observation is true of pretty much the entire species, to varying degrees.

And while Claire can be meddlesome, she appears to be motivated by genuine goodwill for the 'victims' of her schemes - her kind of 'going off before catching the rest' isn't the kind that leads to protracted, pointless wars in South-east Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident), or the election of ageing conmen to high office.

And if Claire is wondering why Marten didn't say anything, my uncle once told his son "Always let your wife have the last word in an argument. Because anything you say after that is the start of another argument."

While I find that advice a bit sexist in its generic form, I have to admit that it might align with the coping strategies developed by male offspring of professional dominatrices.

Then again, maybe he is simply being noble. Remember how he floored Dora with his 'being attentive & considerate'-overkill? (The comic where he comes into CoD & has tickets for a concert of a band she loves and bought her the new Terry Pratchet. Or something like that.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 04 Sep 2018, 18:15
No offence, CR, but I think that observation is true of pretty much the entire species, to varying degrees.

And while Claire can be meddlesome, she appears to be motivated by genuine goodwill for the 'victims' of her schemes - her kind of 'going off before catching the rest' isn't the kind that leads to protracted, pointless wars in South-east Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident), or the election of ageing conmen to high office.
Oh no doubt about that, but as intelligent as Claire is, she's still not smart enough to realise she needs to get the whole story or else she's going to keep making the same mistake.

And there's no doubt that's Claire's a good kid with her heart in the right place, but her meddling might be for what she feels is in a person's best interests, doesn't take into consideration that its not the best thing for them right now. And while her meddling has never intentionally hurt anyone, it has adversely affected other people, the attempted matchmaking incident between Clinton and Emily. She has good intentions, but we all know what road good intentions end up paving.

While I find that advice a bit sexist in it's generic form, I have to admit that it might align with the coping strategies developed by male offspring of professional dominatrices.

There's a reason why my aunt got divorced and why I stopped speaking to him for several years.

Then again, maybe he is simply being noble. Remember how he floored Dora with his 'being attentive & considerate'-overkill? (The comic where he comes into CoD & has tickets for a concert of a band she loves and bought her the new Terry Pratchet. Or something like that.)
You're right, Marten is a good guy. He's a kind, attentive boyfriend who goes out of his way to please his girlfriend in little ways. Maybe he needs to floor Claire with some copies of Chaucer. Or he could really get the job Donne and get her a collection of 17th Century English poets.
Title: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 04 Sep 2018, 18:44
Comic’s up.

Drugs and exams do not mix.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 04 Sep 2018, 18:51
That's true, that is a possibility. It's however not the impression I got from the cadence of Tai's initial correction.

I'm curious how you determined the modulation or inflection of Tai's voice reading text in a comic with no audio.

I'm not saying you started out by assuming Claire was being bratty and worked back from there based on absolutely no information whatsoever, I'm just curious how Tai sounds in real life.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 04 Sep 2018, 19:20
If Tai has done all of that, I feel anxiety for her liver.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: ZoeB on 04 Sep 2018, 19:31
There's this guvmint poll which asks people if they could cope with a sudden financial emergency. Like $400. More than half said "No". This is WORRISOME.
From a recent FB post:

Carmel scarfed up a 2.5kg Duck for $12. We have the Chinese pancakes, the Hoisin sauce, and home grown shallots, so it's 20+ Peking Duck dishes for us at a dollar a pop all up cost.

We can't afford to be poor, don't have enough income. But we do have savings, so can wait till things are half price or less, and live rather well. Most people would have to outlay $8-$10 for each dish, far more at an upmarket restaurant, and the shallots wouldn't be as fresh.

 Those who are disabled, so can't get out to take advantage of such sales, or those who just don't have the money, or are renting so can't plant their own herb garden, or have to live in a place too far from supermarkets that sell such things, can't do this, not at ten times the price. So yes, we are counting our blessings, and are all too aware of our privilege. Nothing we've done to deserve it, just luck. We should spread it around, no? Oh yes, and Carmel, whose bargain hunting skills are unparalleled, got a brand new extensible paint roller at the Green Shed recycling place for $5 instead of $100+. Again, because we're situated fortunately, and are mobile. Spare a thought for those who are neither, so are doing it tough.


Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 04 Sep 2018, 19:38

Oh no doubt about that, but as intelligent as Claire is, she's still not smart enough to realise she needs to get the whole story or else she's going to keep making the same mistake.

There's a reason why intelligence and wisdom are different stats.  I think in Claire's case, she maxed the former, and used the latter as a dump stat.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 04 Sep 2018, 19:42
Good thing no-one around here is prone to jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information; otherwise, this conversation would be quite amusing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 04 Sep 2018, 19:52
You know, the funny thing is that I got the Patreon preview for today's comic yesterday.

Haven't supported anyone on Patreon for over a year.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Jakk Frost on 04 Sep 2018, 21:36
Not being a pothead myself (I'm not opposed to others smoking it, it's just that particular buzz doesn't agree with me), Clare may just be smoking the wrong type if it makes her anxious.  There's two major strains, Indica (relaxant) and Sativa (stimulant).   It's kind of contradictory, and I may be wrong, but I believe that Indica, strangely, is the one that's more likely to cause anxiety.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: jesslc on 04 Sep 2018, 22:50
I'm sorry but why would Claire specifically ask Tai, when Marten didn't correct her? She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong. That she realized how her behavior was wrong when she found out, as well as that Marten was deliberately holding back the information to give her space to be upset and work it out, is pretty much what she'd need to do in this situation. Where the original wrong assumption came from would need Jeph to clarify, she's clearly picked up bits and pieces but we don't know exactly what.
I came across this page (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2786) last week - thanks to someone linking the one after it - and suddenly Claire's misunderstanding about how Marten got his job made a lot more sense to me.

Marten's dialogue in panel 2 doesn’t say that Tai got him the job but it's fairly an understandable conclusion to jump to, given what he does say. And, as we've seen many (many) times, it is very in character for Claire to jump to conclusions.

I mean if you're doing a good job now, then it's highly unlikely you'll be removed from that job if your manager leaves, no matter how unqualified you were when you initially started. Because now you have experience and experience often beats qualifications in most employers eyes. Not to mention that you're a known quality and hiring new people is expensive (and sometimes doesn't work out which makes it even more expensive, etc). So I can see how his dialogue makes it look a bit like he only has the job because of Tai.

--

Re budgeting:
Basically the only way I have ever managed to budget successfully is by setting up automatic transfers to move money out of my account the day after I get paid (rent/household bills/emergency fund/medical bills/fun account). I have set it up so that about half my income gets diverted this way and then I live my usual approach - from paycheck to paycheck - on the rest. But this way I at least manage to successfully avoid spending the money set aside for rent/bills/etc. Not sure where I found this approach but it works great for me. Turns out the more money I have in my everyday account, the more I am likely to spend. I would recommend this approach to Marten if he were real - it's great for people who hate budgeting. And you don't have to have a high income or even a medium one to use this method (I'm in the lowest 25% for my country).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Sep 2018, 23:38
You know, Claire, something tells me that Tai is speaking from experience; bitter experience. For example, as much as she was pretty sure that she went in mellow, she'd feel a lot happier and more secure if she had more than the vaguest memory of actually taking her finals.

Meanwhile, I do think that, if she were thoroughly examined, it would be difficult to find Tai's actually biochemistry under the layers of other stuff she takes. In fact, I don't think that Tai is drug-dependent, I'm starting to wonder if she metabolises the stuff! I mean, have we ever seen her eat?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 05 Sep 2018, 00:44
You know, Claire, something tells me that Tai is speaking from experience; bitter experience. For example, as much as she was pretty sure that she went in mellow, she'd feel a lot happier and more secure if she had more than the vaguest memory of actually taking her finals.

Meanwhile, I do think that, if she were thoroughly examined, it would be difficult to find Tai's actually biochemistry under the layers of other stuff she takes. In fact, I don't think that Tai is drug-dependent, I'm starting to wonder if she metabolises the stuff! I mean, have we ever seen her eat?

Yes, one of the occasions is https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2259 (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2259)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Near Lurker on 05 Sep 2018, 04:07
...so often the employer will get it wrong, and you'll either owe money or be owed money by at least one taxing body.

"So often" is an understatement.  I would be surprised if there were a single American whose W-2 were exactly right.  Mah fellow 'mericans, speak up - have any of you ever had withholding that exactly agreed with your return?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 05 Sep 2018, 04:14
In fact, I don't think that Tai is drug-dependent, I'm starting to wonder if she metabolises the stuff! I mean, have we ever seen her eat?

Oh, she most certainly does! In fact, so does everyone who consumes drugs. That's because 'metabolizing' is an umbrella-term for 'all the chemistry-stuff your body is doing on the sly' ...

Quote
metabolize, verb (mɪtæbəlaɪz )

3rd person singular present tense metabolizes , present participle metabolizing , past tense, past participle metabolized

When you metabolize a substance, it is affected by chemical processes in your body so that, for example, it is broken down, absorbed, and used.


https://www.collinsdictionary.com/de/worterbuch/englisch/metabolize

Bodies, eh?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Sep 2018, 04:37
...so often the employer will get it wrong, and you'll either owe money or be owed money by at least one taxing body.

"So often" is an understatement.  I would be surprised if there were a single American whose W-2 were exactly right.  Mah fellow 'mericans, speak up - have any of you ever had withholding that exactly agreed with your return?
I’ve had a few come close - back when I was single with no dependents and no deductions for mortgage and the like.

The thing about US taxes is that there are so many variables due to weird deductions that your employer can’t possibly calculate what you will actually owe.

And never mind the years I lived in North Carolina when the state instructed employers to withhold too much in taxes - and then the state was very, very slow to issue refund checks. I think they have stopped this practice but as I don’t live in NC any more I’m not positive.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 05 Sep 2018, 05:08
That's true, that is a possibility. It's however not the impression I got from the cadence of Tai's initial correction.

I'm curious how you determined the modulation or inflection of Tai's voice reading text in a comic with no audio.

I'm not saying you started out by assuming Claire was being bratty and worked back from there based on absolutely no information whatsoever, I'm just curious how Tai sounds in real life.

Based on your (kind of passive aggressive) last sentence, you seem to want to insist that I have a preconceived negative opinion on Claire. If that's what you want to believe, that's fine. I already acknowledged that your possibility was also a good one, but not how I perceived the situation based on my initial read. Are you telling me that you have not formed specific voices and ways of talking for each character inside your head during reading?

Not sure why you seem to be so sensitive about anyone (in this case me) perceiving one specific comic initially as more negative behavior by Claire than you did yourself. We discuss characters' behaviors all the time here and it's quite common that somebody perceives behavior differently than others when they first read a comic.

EDIT: to be clear, I really enjoy and appreciate it when others point out different interpretations of a certain comic that did not occur to me upon my initial reading. It's one of the main reasons for me coming here. What I do not appreciate however is somebody insisting my interpretation of a specific comic situation is due to prejudice against a character.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 05 Sep 2018, 05:20
I... admittedly don't actually budget per se, but I have a strategy that works decently for me. Then again, I have a fairly decent intuition of how my finances work, so I can get away with not actually making a formal budget.

The rough structure is:

This strategy certainly isn't minmaxing your finances, but it's IMO manageable without having to micromanage everything.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 05 Sep 2018, 05:24
Good thing no-one around here is prone to jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information; otherwise, this conversation would be quite amusing.

Ha, isn't the whole point of this forum to discuss different viewpoints and interpretations of the comic and its characters' behaviors? After all, if we'd all perceive the comic the exact same way, what's left to discuss? :)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 05 Sep 2018, 07:04
That's true, that is a possibility. It's however not the impression I got from the cadence of Tai's initial correction.

I'm curious how you determined the modulation or inflection of Tai's voice reading text in a comic with no audio.

I'm not saying you started out by assuming Claire was being bratty and worked back from there based on absolutely no information whatsoever, I'm just curious how Tai sounds in real life.

Attempting to get the cadence through a text only media is something that writers actually strive for.
Jeph's a pretty decent writer, so I totally get what Dutchlvr means by his comment.

After all, this *is* no 'Tai' in 'real life'...
We're left only with the author's words.
How we perceive them relies "... on a great... many... things."
(Not least, cultural/specialised knowledge... I can't guarantee it, but I bet a few people reading my last line there heard EXACTLY the voice my quoted words were made in. :)

You are, of course, correct that bare text is a bugger to put cadence into... but it is not impossible.
IN the same way that some might read a posters view in here and, through their previous comments on a character, suggest that any negative comment towards them is being made purely because "you don't like them"... which sometimes may be true... but just as often does not.

Short version?
Saying "You only said that cos you don't like them", is a pretty lame stance to take during a discussion... 'sometimes' :)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 05 Sep 2018, 08:15
Not to mention that once you get into the realm of poetry, that's a pretty important part to actually get right.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: nightshade on 05 Sep 2018, 10:37
is it me or is tai looking a lot like faye?

well ok since the last style change a lot of the characters look a like to me anyways
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 05 Sep 2018, 11:26
Based on your (kind of passive aggressive) last sentence, you seem to want to insist that I have a preconceived negative opinion on Claire. If that's what you want to believe, that's fine. I already acknowledged that your possibility was also a good one, but not how I perceived the situation based on my initial read. Are you telling me that you have not formed specific voices and ways of talking for each character inside your head during reading?

Not sure why you seem to be so sensitive about anyone (in this case me) perceiving one specific comic initially as more negative behavior by Claire than you did yourself. We discuss characters' behaviors all the time here and it's quite common that somebody perceives behavior differently than others when they first read a comic.

EDIT: to be clear, I really enjoy and appreciate it when others point out different interpretations of a certain comic that did not occur to me upon my initial reading. It's one of the main reasons for me coming here. What I do not appreciate however is somebody insisting my interpretation of a specific comic situation is due to prejudice against a character.

I didn't think I was being passive about it.

You went with "Claire was venting" without any context, then when offered an alternative, you vaguely suggested Tai's "cadence" without any effort to explain what you meant or how it led you to your opinion.  Looking at Tai's dialogue we see basically a neutral response, the only indication of what was said before her response were the bolded words "met" and "applied" which are clearly there to indicate what Tai was correcting. Tai's facial expression is likewise fairly neutral, not happy or sad or angry, at best one would call it a "clarification face", one that seems to show up on Jeph's characters when they're clarifying something or explaining things. Even Claire's expression doesn't help for context, since whatever expression she wore when saying whatever she had said has been replaced by her adorable mortification face.

And also, since we're being absolutely clear, I'm not saying you have a prejudice against Claire. I don't have enough information to determine such a specific detail. All I'm saying is you jumped to the conclusion that Claire was venting, I didn't speculate why you thought that. There's a fundamental difference between the two. For one thing, while venting would be a negative response, it doesn't mean the individual doing the venting is a bad person. In fact, for many it would be a natural and expected response.  Assuming somebody is "venting" isn't the same as expressing a prejudice against them.

As for why I said it. There are a WHOLE LOT of instances on this board of people jumping to the worst possible conclusion based on no data at all. Your "venting" comment was mild in comparison.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 05 Sep 2018, 12:37
Based on your (kind of passive aggressive) last sentence, you seem to want to insist that I have a preconceived negative opinion on Claire. If that's what you want to believe, that's fine. I already acknowledged that your possibility was also a good one, but not how I perceived the situation based on my initial read. Are you telling me that you have not formed specific voices and ways of talking for each character inside your head during reading?

Not sure why you seem to be so sensitive about anyone (in this case me) perceiving one specific comic initially as more negative behavior by Claire than you did yourself. We discuss characters' behaviors all the time here and it's quite common that somebody perceives behavior differently than others when they first read a comic.

EDIT: to be clear, I really enjoy and appreciate it when others point out different interpretations of a certain comic that did not occur to me upon my initial reading. It's one of the main reasons for me coming here. What I do not appreciate however is somebody insisting my interpretation of a specific comic situation is due to prejudice against a character.

I didn't think I was being passive about it.

You went with "Claire was venting" without any context, then when offered an alternative, you vaguely suggested Tai's "cadence" without any effort to explain what you meant or how it led you to your opinion.  Looking at Tai's dialogue we see basically a neutral response, the only indication of what was said before her response were the bolded words "met" and "applied" which are clearly there to indicate what Tai was correcting. Tai's facial expression is likewise fairly neutral, not happy or sad or angry, at best one would call it a "clarification face", one that seems to show up on Jeph's characters when they're clarifying something or explaining things. Even Claire's expression doesn't help for context, since whatever expression she wore when saying whatever she had said has been replaced by her adorable mortification face.

And also, since we're being absolutely clear, I'm not saying you have a prejudice against Claire. I don't have enough information to determine such a specific detail. All I'm saying is you jumped to the conclusion that Claire was venting, I didn't speculate why you thought that. There's a fundamental difference between the two. For one thing, while venting would be a negative response, it doesn't mean the individual doing the venting is a bad person. In fact, for many it would be a natural and expected response.  Assuming somebody is "venting" isn't the same as expressing a prejudice against them.

As for why I said it. There are a WHOLE LOT of instances on this board of people jumping to the worst possible conclusion based on no data at all. Your "venting" comment was mild in comparison.

I don't want to keep this going on endlessly, but 2 quick things:
1) I didn't conclude that Claire was venting, I said that's how it read to me. A subtle but distinct difference. At least, I assume that when I write "It reads more like..." that it's obvious that it reads that way to me, not to everyone per se. Just like when you say Tai's expression is fairly neutral or the dialogue was neutral, one can assume you mean it seems neutral to you, but not per se to everybody.
2) Thank you for clarifying that you were not concluding I am prejudiced against Claire, because your previous posts sounded an awful lot (to me, not to everybody per se :-P) like you were.

Alright, back to discussing the comics themselves :)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: NemesisDancer on 05 Sep 2018, 14:30
That's true, that is a possibility. It's however not the impression I got from the cadence of Tai's initial correction.

I'm curious how you determined the modulation or inflection of Tai's voice reading text in a comic with no audio.

I'm not saying you started out by assuming Claire was being bratty and worked back from there based on absolutely no information whatsoever, I'm just curious how Tai sounds in real life.

Attempting to get the cadence through a text only media is something that writers actually strive for.
Jeph's a pretty decent writer, so I totally get what Dutchlvr means by his comment.

I remember reading one of Jeph's Tumblr Q&As in which someone asked how various characters' voices sound, and it turns out they're pretty much exactly as I'd imagined (Hannelore's voice is soft and high-pitched, Marigold's is nasal, etc.) - which indicates he's very good at portraying tone of voice through his writing.

Probably my favourite example of Jeph being evocative of voices through art/dialogue is the last panel of comic 2680 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2680).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dreed on 05 Sep 2018, 19:05
Marten attitude to money is so alien to me.  Iiving from paycheck to paycheck when one has kids, medical expenses is one thing.

But marten is sharing rent with 3 other people, doesn't gamble doesn't travel, so lack of savings is just weird to me.

I do know 30 year old in real life who are exactly like that. So wrong...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 05 Sep 2018, 19:12
...so often the employer will get it wrong, and you'll either owe money or be owed money by at least one taxing body.

"So often" is an understatement.  I would be surprised if there were a single American whose W-2 were exactly right.  Mah fellow 'mericans, speak up - have any of you ever had withholding that exactly agreed with your return?

One time, I had a tax return of precisely zero.  It was nice - but I was fucking terrified that the IRS would find that suspicious and audit me, it's such an odd situation.  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Sep 2018, 19:12
Comic’s up.

This round goes to Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cucumber error on 05 Sep 2018, 20:31
Maybe Marten would feel better about budgeting if he had an app like YNAB or Mint doing some of the work for him. Or maybe I just think that because I'm closer to Claire on the Claire-to-Marten Attitude Towards Spreadsheets spectrum.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 05 Sep 2018, 20:59
Marten is right about "adulting" being terribly droll, though.

BTW, if you're credit is good enough, you might try starting an account with a reputable credit union instead of a bank. No hidden fees, and you don't have to worry about overdraft charges because they straight up won't let you overdraft.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Sep 2018, 23:31
Panels 3 and 4 in today's strip are both so funny because of the unseen 'inter-panel' that we only see by implications by looking at Marten and Claire's expressions in panel 4.

Marten looks so happy and free in panel 3 that I know he thought that he'd somehow bought off having to look at saving money (did he think that Claire only suggested it as revenge for him having a job she wanted?). So, when she still dragged him to the local S&L it was a profound and possibly traumatic surprise! Claire's expression tells me that the childish whining, begging and pleading that ensued as she dragged him through the door had pushed her right to the end of her tether.
In some ways it is reassuring that Marten and Claire are not two rigidly one-dimensional in terms of characterisation. They share the 'sensible one' and 'silly one' duties and that's a good sign in terms of the development Jeph is putting into them.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Sep 2018, 00:43
The funeral service will be held tomorrow at 9:30 am.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: traroth on 06 Sep 2018, 00:45
Yeah, banks ARE boring. I take a book with me to every place where I know there will be a waiting room, like physicians, banks, barbers... Wait, didn't those guys have some book-related job? I hope they at least like books...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Sep 2018, 04:48
Marten attitude to money is so alien to me.  Iiving from paycheck to paycheck when one has kids, medical expenses is one thing.

But marten is sharing rent with 3 other people, doesn't gamble doesn't travel, so lack of savings is just weird to me.

I do know 30 year old in real life who are exactly like that. So wrong...

You are right, and in fact that is the thing that probably should worry Marten and Clair the most. Right now they are co-inhabiting a (small-ish I think?) apartment and sharing the rent among at least 3 people (don't know if Bubbles pays rent as well).
It's kinda surprising that he doesn't seem to have been able to save anything, especially since supposedly he also made it work before Claire moved in and started paying part of the rent.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Sep 2018, 05:14
He spends half his time hanging out at a coffee house. An independent one is likely to cost more than a chain. I doubt he is laid well, and a coffee a day seems like a small spend but adds up. Add to that his overall arrested development and I'm not at all surprised, because the exact same behaviour has repeatedly made me broke.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Sep 2018, 05:23
He spends half his time hanging out at a coffee house. An independent one is likely to cost more than a chain. I doubt he is laid well, and a coffee a day seems like a small spend but adds up. Add to that his overall arrested development and I'm not at all surprised, because the exact same behaviour has repeatedly made me broke.

I really hope he is laid well  :-P :-D

Anyway, wasn't it previously implied (or maybe explicitly stated) that he was getting his coffees on the house at CoD?

Edit: agree with your statement in general though. As someone who always had to pay for everything himself (including tuitions), I got really annoyed by a fellow grad student who complained that we got paid so little that we would never be able to save anything, while holding a $5 venti frappucino from Starbucks..... (note: our grad stipend was $2100 in Chicago in 2007, which is by no means low)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Sep 2018, 05:26
God I hate my phone's autocorrect.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Sep 2018, 05:32
Anyway, wasn't it previously implied (or maybe explicitly stated) that he was getting his coffees on the house at CoD?
It was explicitly stated that that ended when he broke up with Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Sep 2018, 06:37
Counter point on the finances issue. We really don't know if anything changed when Claire and Bubbles moved in. Bubbles I'm pretty sure never paid. First it was 'my friend lost her work place and home, she's crashing my my room'. Then it was 'we're business partners' and now it's 'we're business and romantic partners'. Faye and Bubbles' finances are tied together at this point, and bad enough that Faye was trying to budget out eating. I doubt they have the money to pay two shares of rent.

Claire before moving in was living at home and apparently had and still does not have a paying job. First she worked as a student in the library, now she's a TA. We don't know if she gets paid for either of those, but it's quite possible not, and certainly not much. She would probably get some money from loans or her mother... But the question is up in the air if she has money to pay rent.

So it's entirely possible despite two people moving in, the finances of the apartment haven't changed. Also, Marten is capable of saving. He has a fair bit saved when he bought the expensive guitar many years ago. It's not impossible that he has savings now... Or he might not. It's more the point that he isn't planner, but a money in, money out person and hoping or assuming nothing bad will happen.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 06 Sep 2018, 06:53
Maybe my memory is off, but didn't he have the savings when he bought the 8-string, and not the other one?  I thought that the other fancy guitar was after he won a bar bet with Beatrice.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Sep 2018, 07:01
We do know that Claire is insistent on paying rent: https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3466
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Jakk Frost on 06 Sep 2018, 07:02
"Should have no trouble finding work" ~ Except for, you know, that pesky problem of the availability of similar jobs.

Also:

I doubt he is laid well

Claire might want to have a word or two with you about that!

(*snort* I know it's just a typo, but I couldn't resist  :-D)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Sep 2018, 07:26
See the collections at damnyouautocorrect.com.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Sep 2018, 07:39
Counter point on the finances issue. We really don't know if anything changed when Claire and Bubbles moved in. Bubbles I'm pretty sure never paid. First it was 'my friend lost her work place and home, she's crashing my my room'. Then it was 'we're business partners' and now it's 'we're business and romantic partners'. Faye and Bubbles' finances are tied together at this point, and bad enough that Faye was trying to budget out eating. I doubt they have the money to pay two shares of rent.

Claire before moving in was living at home and apparently had and still does not have a paying job. First she worked as a student in the library, now she's a TA. We don't know if she gets paid for either of those, but it's quite possible not, and certainly not much. She would probably get some money from loans or her mother... But the question is up in the air if she has money to pay rent.

So it's entirely possible despite two people moving in, the finances of the apartment haven't changed. Also, Marten is capable of saving. He has a fair bit saved when he bought the expensive guitar many years ago. It's not impossible that he has savings now... Or he might not. It's more the point that he isn't planner, but a money in, money out person and hoping or assuming nothing bad will happen.

Well, we do know that Claire is paying rent.

You are right though that he could very well still have savings. Marten saying he does not make enough for a savings account might just mean that he does not think he makes enough for structured monthly savings. Instead, he might just be saving whenever he happens to have a month with some money left.
He could just be slowly expanding his positive balance on his checking account.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 06 Sep 2018, 08:56
He could consider a standing order.

Maybe time to get some qualifications
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 06 Sep 2018, 09:50
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Sep 2018, 09:53
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

I suspect this is far more common than you might think.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 06 Sep 2018, 09:58
As an aside, I feel like Claire's outfits have been steadily showing more body-confidence since she and Marten started hanging out (I'm including the run-up to the relationship).  I think it's a really nifty detail showing that the relationship is a healthy force in her life.

Or maybe it's coincidental and I'm just reading too much into things.  Like I do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 06 Sep 2018, 10:01
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

I suspect this is far more common than you might think.

Especially those who are on the lower end economically. For many people it is a literal impossibility to save money in any way. They are not only living paycheck to paycheck, but more like the paycheck runs out part way through. The idea of savings is a luxury that some people simply and literally cannot afford.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 06 Sep 2018, 10:34
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

What's the AYR APY on your account? Google sez best current rate for a standard savings account is 1.85% - with inflation in the U.S at 2.9%
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Sep 2018, 11:04
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

What's the AYR on your account? Google sez best current rate for a standard savings account is 1.85% - with inflation in the U.S at 2
9%

I really like Ally's interface and service, which gives 1.85%. I realize you can get 2% at some, but the difference is too small to bother switching for me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Sep 2018, 14:05
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

What's the AYR on your account? Google sez best current rate for a standard savings account is 1.85% - with inflation in the U.S at 2.9%
I have Bank of America (yeah, I know...), and their interest rate is "LOL no."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 06 Sep 2018, 14:19
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

What's the AYR on your account? Google sez best current rate for a standard savings account is 1.85% - with inflation in the U.S at 2.9%
Probably .1% or something. The savings account page on the CU's website has a big splashy table of their various specialty schemes but nothing specifically about plain old savings accounts. The closest thing to that is the summary at the top which says nothing really except that it's $5 to open one

Yeah, looked in my savings account activity summary, .1%. Maybe it's higher if there's more money in it, I only have 1700, so I get a few pennies
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Emperor Norton on 06 Sep 2018, 16:10
Honestly, other than an emergency fund, if you have ANY debt, you are better off paying off debt than putting money in savings anyway.

(I mean, even paying off a house or car faster is getting you a better return on your money than savings).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: no one special on 06 Sep 2018, 16:33
When I saw that they were at a bank, my first thought was that they were at a blood bank, that Marten had won the argument/discussion.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Sep 2018, 17:11
Honestly, other than an emergency fund, if you have ANY debt, you are better off paying off debt than putting money in savings anyway.

(I mean, even paying off a house or car faster is getting you a better return on your money than savings).

That's why offset mortgages are so good.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Sep 2018, 17:45
Every now and then I try to match places in QC Northampton with their real-life counterparts. “Fitzsimmons” in panel 1 isn’t just an Agents of SHIELD reference; it’s also a reference to the real Fitzwilly’s Restaurant (https://fitzwillys.com) on Main Street in Northampton.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 06 Sep 2018, 18:13
Honestly, other than an emergency fund, if you have ANY debt, you are better off paying off debt than putting money in savings anyway.

(I mean, even paying off a house or car faster is getting you a better return on your money than savings).
I get the impression that Marten has no emergency fund, hence starting one first.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Sep 2018, 20:11
COMIC 3825

MORE METACOMMENTARY
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Undrneath on 06 Sep 2018, 23:00
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

Here I am in my mid forties and I haven't had a savings account in almost 20 years though I do have a checking account.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Sep 2018, 23:29
I really think that Marten and Tai should tell their significant others about just how they feel about them. If nothing else, their response will be cute to see!

This strip emphasises just how similar the Marten/Claire and the Dora/Tai pairings have become, both in the broad brush-strokes of their personalities and also in their feelings for each other. I wonder if we may see Dora and Claire having a similar conversation in which they realise that they have similar insecurities and frustrations and decide to set aside the awkwardness of their mutual connection with Marten and try to be friends?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: wlewisiii on 07 Sep 2018, 06:05
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

Here I am in my mid forties and I haven't had a savings account in almost 20 years though I do have a checking account.

Sa-v-ings? What is this ... thing... you call sa-v-ings?

In my 55 years I have never had a good enough job where savings was really possible. If I get past a month with out an overdraft fee, I consider myself lucky.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 07 Sep 2018, 07:42
True, true, true....you outta have a savings account.  But the reality is that it doesn't become possible until you reach a certain income tipping point, and that point is a moving target for many young adults.

I remember hitting the tipping point.  I was (and am) pretty frugal but I wasn't settling for a monastic lifestyle, either.  I'd borrowed a few $K to buy a dependable used car, had made the last payment, and was looking at some extra cash each month when the light came on - "Goat," sez Self, "If you keep paying that money to you instead of the damn bank, you'll have cash when something makes you yell 'Oh shit!' and may even be able to buy the next car without borrowing."

It worked.  Goatfrau and I still ain't rich, but we don't owe a dime, the kid is through college, and we pay off all the plastic at the end of every month.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Nighthawk700 on 07 Sep 2018, 07:49
"You get that feeling like 'okay you won the friggin lottery with this one, don't fuck it up"

Every single day, and we've been married for over 15 years now!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 07 Sep 2018, 08:22
Honestly, other than an emergency fund, if you have ANY debt, you are better off paying off debt than putting money in savings anyway.

(I mean, even paying off a house or car faster is getting you a better return on your money than savings).

That is a given. To be honest, even en emergency fund should only be a fairly minimal one as paying off debt (especially CC debt) is much, much more important. Especially putting money in a savings account when you're still paying interest on CC debt is really just rapidly flushing money down the toilet...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 07 Sep 2018, 10:51
See the collections at damnyouautocorrect.com.
Also be very wary of all those Tiny Hippos.

As for saving, I also started young but once I was getting close to middleschool and getting actual summer jobs discovered that the interest I was getting was next to nothing [like today] yet was being charged transaction fees for taking anything out. It was a specifically set up and promoted as a kids savings account and they were charging fees on it .... pissed preteen me right off. Went straight across the hall and up the mall 20 feet to a different bank that had just opened a branch there, which I have stuck with since then. The first one was taken over and changed names at least three times since then. The one I am with? I have been a client longer than any of the employees have worked there.

Anyhow, growing up poor in a frugal household ingrains frugal into you and it never goes away - I am called cheap at times but I don't mind - when I  spend larger sums on "stuff" or needs, I still suffer pangs of buyers remorse. My savings account transformed into a checking account and as checkes are being phased out it is again transforming into some chimera of an investment account. Still it is comforting to know that I have that buffer when things go plaid.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Sep 2018, 11:42
In the UK there is a particularly high emphasis on the virtues of owning a house.  This means loads of people have mortgages, and there is little reason to have a savings account because the money which you'd put into it is better used paying down the mortgage (make sure you get one that allows this - astoundingly not all do).  Then the savings account is just a way to maintain sufficient liquidity for annual holidays and emergencies - and many people find that simply keeping a healthy balance in their current (=checking) account is handy enough, as the interest on a quick-access savings account will not be impressive anyway.  Pensions savings are another good place to put money; and I guess the difference in how pensions (and medical care) are handled in the UK and the US also feeds into the decision about how important a savings account is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Storel on 07 Sep 2018, 13:25
Marten's expression in today's last panel seems... off, to me. It's cute, it's cartoony, but it just doesn't look like Marten.

Actually, Tai looks a bit odd to me too. Maybe I'm only just now starting to notice Jeph's latest style change.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Sep 2018, 13:58
Yeah, I'm no great fan of Jeph's latest art change either, particularly in removing full lips from several female characters. In Dora's case, it just makes her harder to differentiate from Marten!

Of course, I will never forgive Jeph for chopping off Bubbles's long hair!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Sep 2018, 14:12
In fairness, I work in education. I have no savings but one of the best pensions you can get.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 07 Sep 2018, 16:46
Off topic : I wonder what's up with padma?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 07 Sep 2018, 16:50
She's since moved back to California after her grandmother got sick.
She and Marten have exchanged emails.
She seems happy out there, end of story.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 07 Sep 2018, 18:33
.  . .I guess the difference in how pensions (and medical care) are handled in the UK and the US also feeds into the decision about how important a savings account is.

How shall I put this without being overtly political?  When it comes to health care funding, the US may as well be a 3rd or 4th world country.  For even the most highly paid wage earner even a moderately serious non-work related injury or illness can easily become a financial catastrophe, rapidly draining years of savings and investment. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: wlewisiii on 07 Sep 2018, 19:32
.  . .I guess the difference in how pensions (and medical care) are handled in the UK and the US also feeds into the decision about how important a savings account is.

How shall I put this without being overtly political?  When it comes to health care funding, the US may as well be a 3rd or 4th world country.  For even the most highly paid wage earner even a moderately serious non-work related injury or illness can easily become a financial catastrophe, rapidly draining years of savings and investment.

It's easier to plan on the ER and eventually filing bankruptcy. Illness will kill you one way or the other.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 08 Sep 2018, 04:36
My saving's account started when I had been saving for two years to get and Xbox at 14 or something
(I had virtually no income and most upgrades consisted of getting money for my birthday from grandparents and washing cars and such).
So after two-three years, approaching my birthday I had finally gathered enough funds (well including the expected 10 euro's from grandma) to get myself an xbox! Which means as a present, I could ask my parents for a simple game for my birthday.
Well.. after which parents were so proud they just gave me the xbox. ANTICLIMAX much. (I was sorta pissed about this) :')
But that's where my saving's account started :') I suddenly had 250 euro's to put in there.

I have been a bit of a hoarder since.. but student me was very glad for high school me who just put 80% of my side job earnings into this account.
That shit gives you a buffer when something unexpected happens, which makes it so much easier to handle big setbacks.
I made the rule that this base level fund would be my "artificial zero", if I would go below this I would be "in the red numbers",
which I stuck to with some small health or similar related exceptions.  (saves you a lot of money on interest to the bank)

Just mentality also makes one hell of a difference i guess. Although I'm the first to admit I grew up relatively privileged anyway.
One of which is living in a country in which setbacks are never as bad as in the US, especially health related.
A massive extra medical bill is more like max +/- €350 for me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: wlewisiii on 08 Sep 2018, 09:06
One of which is living in a country in which setbacks are never as bad as in the US, especially health related.
A massive extra medical bill is more like max +/- €350 for me.

Well, that's the benifit of living in a civilized nation. In the US we can't have nice things because we don't live in western civilization; just a pretense of it a millimeter thick.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 08 Sep 2018, 13:42
Global Moderator Comment No argument, but this is an issue that hurts so many people that I'm afraid it will take over the WCDT if we continue talking about it here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Welu on 08 Sep 2018, 15:21
Here are some relevant threads to the last couple weeks that already exist lower down the forum. We're not as strict about posting in quiet or older threads here, since sometimes topics come in cycles. We're always up for new points of view or twists on discussed topics, but I recommend to give them a skim to see what has been brought up before and/or to get the idea of tone in the threads.

Discussion of why healthcare costs in the USA are high (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,28593.0.html)

What is the best country to live in? (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33850.0.htmll)

Privilege and Self Examination (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,29384.50.html)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Momoka on 09 Sep 2018, 00:52
Let's try putting some numbers to this budget discussion for Martin.

Martin has an entry-level book-stacking job at a local college, so he's likely getting paid the Massachusetts minimum wage of $11/hr, which is $1,760 a month (assuming it's full time).

A 2-bedroom apartment in Northampton is around $1500/mo on Zillow (living in Boston, I find this number suspect, but I guess some places allow people to actually live), and he's got a roommate, so Martin's share is $750 or so, leaving him $1010 a month. Around $300 of this goes to groceries, leaving him with $710.  An average Bronze Obamacare plan is $560/mo, but Martin's low income means he gets his health care subsidized so his premium is no more than 9.5% of his income (thanks, Obama! Possibly! I might be wrong on this!), which we'll round up to $170. This leaves him with $540. $40 or so goes to his half of the internet fees, leaving about $100 each for water, electricity, gas, ironic T-shirts, and heat. One of his expenses is also a robot, which I don't know how to budget for.

So Martin is in a situation where his survival is actually feasible, which I didn't expect when starting to google it, but he has basically no money for anything that isn't a strict necessity, and will probably hit major financial problems soon even without a medical emergency, since rent is an endlessly growing monster about to consume him. His best short-term savings goal is probably to get Pintsize a humanlike chassis so that he can get a job and contribute to rent, though that plan has several problems only some of which are ethical.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 09 Sep 2018, 00:57
We know he makes significantly more money than his position would normally dictate. He and Tai caught two board members having an affair in the library and they offered a salary bump in exchange for discretion. I don't remember the specific comic, it was several years ago.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 09 Sep 2018, 01:02
I seem to remember a 30% raise?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 09 Sep 2018, 02:06
He and Tai caught two board members having an affair in the library

Marten and Dora, that was (they were sneaking off (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1133) to do the same thing themselves, mind!).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 09 Sep 2018, 02:10
I thought maybe that was the case, after I posted. It's been a long time and I have never reread that particular period of the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: specter177 on 09 Sep 2018, 04:24
<snip>
A 2-bedroom apartment in Northampton is around $1500/mo on Zillow (living in Boston, I find this number suspect, but I guess some places allow people to actually live), and he's got a roommate, so Martin's share is $750 or so, leaving him $1010 a month. Around $300 of this goes to groceries, leaving him with $710. <snip>

Less than that, remember Clair is paying her share now, and it's possible Bubbles might be paying an equal share too.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 09 Sep 2018, 04:29
A 2-bedroom apartment in Northampton is around $1500/mo on Zillow (living in Boston, I find this number suspect, but I guess some places allow people to actually live)

Having lived in both the Boston suburbs (Arlington) and in Northampton, I can verify that housing costs in Northampton are significantly lower. And Northampton is expensive by western Massachusetts standards.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 09 Sep 2018, 07:50
When I was looking for jobs earlier this year, one of the jobs I applied for was in the suburbs of Boston, and when I looked up the cost of rent there I was pretty horrified. I'd have been getting paid very well at that job if I had gotten it, but the rent would still be very substantial... Instead I ended up in the suburbs of Chicago.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Momoka on 09 Sep 2018, 10:05
I seem to remember a 30% raise?

In that case, Martin would be making $14.30/hr, or $2,288 a month, and his living situation goes from "dire" to "actually quite comfortable". Bubbles taking on a third of the rent helps a lot here as well. Martin has probably never asked Claire to pay any rent, both because he is Martin and because she's a full-time student.

It also means Martin should be more afraid of the board member not being around anymore than anything else, because then he's underqualified AND overpaid for his position.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 09 Sep 2018, 10:17
(A gentle reminder that his name is Marten.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: bhtooefr on 09 Sep 2018, 11:46
$14.30/hr pre-tax. So, assuming 52 weeks, 40 hours a week (that would imply paid holidays, vacation, and sick time, which he isn't guaranteed to get by any means, as well as full employment, which he also isn't guaranteed to get), that's $29,744/yr.

So, his federal income taxes would be $3378.78/yr with the 2018 tax brackets, Social Security (6.2%) is $1844.13, Medicare (1.45%) is $431.29, Massachusetts (5.1% for personal income) is $1516.94, and it looks like Massachusetts doesn't have city or school income tax (looks like everything for local needs is done through property tax, and through local options on sales taxes).

That means, after taxes, he has $1881.07/mo to work with.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Milayna on 09 Sep 2018, 13:17
$30k/yr is double what I make in one of the richest counties in the nation. My wage is going to $15 by 2020, but even so.

Rent hasn't been a factor for me up until now, but will be soon. I mostly don't spend money on anything, for...reasons, though last year I got fed up and quit my job and used the energy to get much-needed dental work done which crashed my savings.

If those numbers are right then Marten's living the life several steps up in my dreams =/
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 09 Sep 2018, 14:21
So Martin is in a situation where his survival is actually feasible, which I didn't expect when starting to google it, but he has basically no money for anything that isn't a strict necessity, and will probably hit major financial problems soon even without a medical emergency, since rent is an endlessly growing monster about to consume him. His best short-term savings goal is probably to get Pintsize a humanlike chassis so that he can get a job and contribute to rent, though that plan has several problems only some of which are ethical.

Welcome, analytical new person!

I seem to remember Marten has student loans so there's another budget item.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Sep 2018, 16:14
His best short-term savings goal is probably to get Pintsize a humanlike chassis so that he can get a job and contribute to rent, though that plan has several problems only some of which are ethical.
Pintsize is doing quite well with his various Internet porn ventures and no doubt other enterprises.  I suspect he's the wealthiest member of the regular cast* after Hanners, and he's probably creative enough that he's running some AI vices that human legislators haven't even gotten around to taxing yet.  If he wanted a more humanoid chassis, he could buy one outright.

*Station only shows up occasionally - same for John and Beatrice.  Station and Pintsize may be in cahoots on something Bubbles would find at least mildly disgusting.  Roko would too, but she knows better than to throw lock washers.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Sep 2018, 04:55
When I was looking for jobs earlier this year, one of the jobs I applied for was in the suburbs of Boston, and when I looked up the cost of rent there I was pretty horrified. I'd have been getting paid very well at that job if I had gotten it, but the rent would still be very substantial... Instead I ended up in the suburbs of Chicago.  :psyduck:

Yeah...I had a similar reaction when I was moving for a job on the north shore of Boston....
Having lived for years in a decent 2-BR apartment in a very popular neighborhood of Chicago (lakeview/boystown, about 300 yards from lake Michigan) for about $1600/mth max, I was shocked to see that even far outside of Boston (Salem, Beverly, and further north) $1600/mth really doesn't get you much.

I realized later that Chicago is surprisingly affordable rentwise for the city it is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Sep 2018, 05:03
I seem to remember a 30% raise?

In that case, Martin would be making $14.30/hr, or $2,288 a month, and his living situation goes from "dire" to "actually quite comfortable". Bubbles taking on a third of the rent helps a lot here as well. Martin has probably never asked Claire to pay any rent, both because he is Martin and because she's a full-time student.

It also means Martin should be more afraid of the board member not being around anymore than anything else, because then he's underqualified AND overpaid for his position.

If Marten indeed makes $2288/mth or thereabouts, he should be able to live quite comfortably.
Personally, when I was a grad student with a stipend of $2100/mth (pre-taxes, mind you), I lived by myself with $900/mth rent while also budgetting $150/mth for paying off student debt, and I still lived comfortable enough that I could have 1 reasonable vacation each year. And no, this was on a diet of ramen or anything.
Marten likely pays substantially less rent than $900; now that they at least split rent in 3 (Claire insisted on paying) it's probably closer to $600. Shouldn't be a big problem living rather comfortably in Northampton assuming living costs are equal or more likely lower than in Chicago.

Even if Marten makes the $1760/mth he should be reasonably off at the moment. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3821-3825 (3-7 September 2018)
Post by: Jakk Frost on 13 Sep 2018, 11:09
It boggles my mind that Marten has managed to make it to 20-something-adult years old by sewing money into the mattress. I've had a savings account since I was like, 10. My primary savings - and my credit card - are still with the federal credit union I signed up for as a middle school student.

I suspect this is far more common than you might think.

Yup.  As the saying goes, I always have too much month at the end of the money.
Especially those who are on the lower end economically. For many people it is a literal impossibility to save money in any way. They are not only living paycheck to paycheck, but more like the paycheck runs out part way through. The idea of savings is a luxury that some people simply and literally cannot afford.