Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 09 Sep 2018, 08:59

Title: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Sep 2018, 08:59
New week, new thread.

EDIT: Maybe the mods could add that poll in Tova's thread to mine?
Title: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Sep 2018, 18:22
Here we go again!  :clairedoge:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 09 Sep 2018, 19:00
Something will happen.
Events will occur.
Comments will be said.
Jokes will be made.

That's my predictions for the week!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Sep 2018, 19:21
Facepalms all around?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 09 Sep 2018, 19:28
Ah, poor Pintsize.

Nothing he could have done would have stopped the Dorapocalypse. That was building up even for the first kiss between Marten and Dora and it was never going to survive the self-doubts that lurked in both Marten and Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 09 Sep 2018, 19:50
Not that I really care, but I didn't create a thread because this one didn't have a poll - I believe I created it at least an hour before this one. Maybe I'm wrong? Anyway, if this existed, I didn't see it.

Everyone seems to have hooked onto this one, so *shrug*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 09 Sep 2018, 19:55
Ah, poor Pintsize.

Nothing he could have done would have stopped the Dorapocalypse. That was building up even for the first kiss between Marten and Dora and it was never going to survive the self-doubts that lurked in both Marten and Dora.

Agreed.  For all his faults I doubt there was anything Pintsize could've done to help and at the very least he certainly didn't make things worse. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Sep 2018, 20:19
Does that dong have eyestalks?

Edit -  Or is that a halo?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Near Lurker on 09 Sep 2018, 21:54
...is this tomorrow's?  Only I don't remember Pintsize doing much of anything.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Sep 2018, 23:22
I selected 'Friendship', 'Shenanigans' and 'Anxiety' because you can summarise any arc in Questionable Content using one or more of those words!

Onto today's strip, I've always considered it very interesting that Pintsize can only really talk about his feelings about his 'job' as an AnthroPC companion with his fellow synthetics. I'm not sure whether it's because he doesn't think humans would understand the context or whether he doesn't like 'stepping out of character' with them. Still, it's interesting to see how he sees things sometimes.

I also think that Momo has Pintsize figured out. He needs to watch out because she's now in a position to use reverse psychology on him, as we see here in panel 4! :-o
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Sep 2018, 02:57
...is this tomorrow's?  Only I don't remember Pintsize doing much of anything.
He did exactly enough. Which is better than most people manage when interfering in other people’s relationships.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 10 Sep 2018, 03:24
Does that dong have eyestalks?

Edit -  Or is that a halo?

I think it's just movement.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 10 Sep 2018, 03:45
...is this tomorrow's?  Only I don't remember Pintsize doing much of anything.
He did exactly enough. Which is better than most people manage when interfering in other people’s relationships.

Yes indeed. Specifically, he got them talking and then butted out, which was precisely what was required.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Marco on 10 Sep 2018, 05:00
Does that dong have eyestalks?

Edit -  Or is that a halo?

I think it's just movement.

She's vibrating. It's the AI dildo equivalent of the wagging of a dog's tail. Also, I think it's supposed to vibrate.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Sep 2018, 05:09
I also think it looks like an Ursula, which for me is because it is purple and therefore reminds me of Ursula from the little mermaid....

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Sep 2018, 05:15
Here we go again!  :clairedoge:

Sorry, I thought I'd beat you by a longshot...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 10 Sep 2018, 09:43
An AI dildo is a fairly disturbing thought. The potential for consent issues is quite troubling.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2018, 09:48
If 'Ursula' is the prototype singing dildo that we saw Pintsize and Winslow working on before then I don't think it's an AI. It's a computerised appliance possibly with some very limited feedback-adaptive functionality but I doubt that it has any real intelligence or awareness beyond its narrow set of functions.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Magniras on 10 Sep 2018, 11:48
Someone somewhere has a kink for sapient dildoes.  And somewhere out there an AI has a kink for being a toy. Together, they fight crime.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 10 Sep 2018, 14:07
My first thought about naming the dildo "Ursula" was "not enough tentacles".

I then started wondering about the engineering of a robotic dildo with prehensile tentacles.

Something like a bunch of these. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=uMM0lRfX6YI)

My mental reckoning was something like a scifi Oglaf comic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Carl-E on 10 Sep 2018, 14:13
Well, that was creepy looking. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 10 Sep 2018, 14:34
Character development? For Pintsize?

What's happening, lads?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2018, 14:38
Character development? For Pintsize?

What's happening, lads?

Less character development and more Jeph confirming something that most of us always suspected about him.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 10 Sep 2018, 14:44
Character development? For Pintsize?

What's happening, lads?

Check outside, are there porcine shapes flying in front of an azure moon?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 10 Sep 2018, 16:17
Character development? For Pintsize?

What's happening, lads?

Less character development and more Jeph confirming something that most of us always suspected about him.

I'd still definitely call that character development.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 10 Sep 2018, 16:30
I feel like we have this conversation every time it is revealed that Pintsize has hidden depths and is fulfilling his role as a companion AI in his own way.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Sep 2018, 19:55
He's sentient, so it's not surprising that life experience would bring him changes and even maturity.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 10 Sep 2018, 19:57
Awwwwwww, poor innocent Momo!  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: shanejayell on 10 Sep 2018, 20:32

Less character development and more Jeph confirming something that most of us always suspected about him.

He does his job as a companion bot, he just does it in his own unique way.

And yeah, poor Momo. *lol*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Sorflakne on 10 Sep 2018, 21:34
Football.  That's alllllllll I'm going to say.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Sep 2018, 21:55
The round kind or the prolate spheroid?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Sep 2018, 21:57
Momo hasn't seen Marigold's porn ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 10 Sep 2018, 22:27
Momo hasn't seen Marigold's porn ...

It would seem that Marigold isn’t as careless with her porn as we thought if Momo is still so innocent.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Vurogj on 10 Sep 2018, 22:32
This despite the lot of Victorian-era pornography Momo has had access to (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2037) before...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 10 Sep 2018, 22:37
Does Momo not know how organic beings are made? If a woman can get a small human OUT, then there’s reason to think something of a similar size can go IN, isn’t there?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 10 Sep 2018, 22:50
It's a computerised appliance possibly with some very limited feedback-adaptive functionality but I doubt that it has any real intelligence or awareness beyond its narrow set of functions.

Most of that sounds like an accurate description of the genuine article.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Toe on 10 Sep 2018, 22:56
I've done more than just 'seen some videos' lol.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Sep 2018, 23:13
Momo's naivete reminds me a lot of Joyce in David Willis's Dumbing of Age. Like Joyce, Momo is pushy, moralistic but nonetheless kind-hearted and determined to be walking a righteous path. Like Joyce, Momo has a violent streak and also is enormously sexually repressed (and as at least one friend who is determined to break that).

Is this a trope? Is there a character template that both Willis and Jeph are following (consciously or otherwise) or is this just the sort of character that tends to develop organically when you have a certain objective for them in mind?

Momo hasn't seen Marigold's porn ...

Which is weird because she was Marigold's AnthroPC and I seem to remember a strip where Marigold had to do some software surgery because all the malware on the porn sites had screwed up her registry or something but maybe I'm misremembering one of Pintsize's misadventures.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 10 Sep 2018, 23:15
I've done more than just 'seen some videos' lol.

TMI
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 10 Sep 2018, 23:30
Momo hasn't seen Marigold's porn ...

Which is weird because she was Marigold's AnthroPC and I seem to remember a strip where Marigold had to do some software surgery because all the malware on the porn sites had screwed up her registry or something but maybe I'm misremembering one of Pintsize's misadventures.

Iirc, that was when she was trying out the new chassis at the shop. Perhaps she purposely blocked them from her own mind, as well as what Marigold may have been doing, based on earlier reactions to her rather vivid description in order to ward off Angus and Faye's tmi.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 11 Sep 2018, 00:07
Which is weird because she was Marigold's AnthroPC and I seem to remember a strip where Marigold had to do some software surgery because all the malware on the porn sites had screwed up her registry or something but maybe I'm misremembering one of Pintsize's misadventures.

Those were specifically yaoi sites, implying cartoons.  It's entirely possible Momo accepted "cartoon logic" for how those giant things were fitting.  But if real-life videos exist...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 11 Sep 2018, 00:32
I've done more than just 'seen some videos' lol.

We have a thread for that in Relate. The TMI thread, no less.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 11 Sep 2018, 00:56
Does Momo not know how organic beings are made? If a woman can get a small human OUT, then there’s reason to think something of a similar size can go IN, isn’t there?

Yeah, but in the case of the former, there's a lot of screaming involved. And not the fun kind of screaming. So from a certain perspective, why would you want to see someone shove something that large into themselves. We can presume that Momo's mind doesn't automatically go there. And that realisation, it will never leave. Like the Eagles said, you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Wagimawr on 11 Sep 2018, 02:12
The round kind or the prolate spheroid?

it ain't just the spheroid that's prolate after all that :evil:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: TheLiege on 11 Sep 2018, 02:27
Am I the only one that originally read the "novelty size" comment from Momo as meant in the same way you get tiny novelty size chocolate bars?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 11 Sep 2018, 02:34
By my judgment we will see Pintsize's custom order from Union robotics getting finished. And Faye will call Marten a doofus or something like that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 11 Sep 2018, 02:40
The round kind or the prolate spheroid?

it ain't just the spheroid that's prolate after all that :evil:

In the quest of finding whether they could, they never thought about whether they should.


Also, there's a theory that humans are all born premature, technically. It's only that the female body can't accommodate the size of the "fully grown" baby at the "proper" "hatching time".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 11 Sep 2018, 02:48
This was an awesome strip. Best in months.

Pintsize is actually caring and us the perfect companion ai to marten.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 11 Sep 2018, 05:27

Also, there's a theory that humans are all born premature, technically. It's only that the female body can't accommodate the size of the "fully grown" baby at the "proper" "hatching time".

A theory that is quite widely accepted, I may add (BSc in medical biology speaking, MSc is in Neuroscience, so less relevant).
If babies get too large it also causes problems already.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Marco on 11 Sep 2018, 05:38

Something like a bunch of these. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=uMM0lRfX6YI)


Tentacles hentai meets Transformers.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 11 Sep 2018, 11:19

Also, there's a theory that humans are all born premature, technically. It's only that the female body can't accommodate the size of the "fully grown" baby at the "proper" "hatching time".

A theory that is quite widely accepted, I may add (BSc in medical biology speaking, MSc is in Neuroscience, so less relevant).
If babies get too large it also causes problems already.

Thank you, science fairy!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 11 Sep 2018, 13:35
A theory that is quite widely accepted, I may add (BSc in medical biology speaking, MSc is in Neuroscience, so less relevant).
If babies get too large it also causes problems already.

My big head apparently caused my mom problems when I was born. But it was only fair, the medication her doctors gave her may have damaged my heart in utero.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Toe on 11 Sep 2018, 15:01
I've done more than just 'seen some videos' lol.

TMI

You're welcome!  :-)

We have a thread for that in Relate. The TMI thread, no less.

Very well, SLIGHTLY MORE INFO IN THIS POST (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30381.msg1412695.html#msg1412695).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Rincewind on 11 Sep 2018, 19:19
Is it my imagination, or is Marigold's complexion looking much better?  I mean, is that old wives tale about an active sex life clearing up ones face true?   :-o

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Dizrupt on 11 Sep 2018, 19:53
Is it my imagination, or is Marigold's complexion looking much better?  I mean, is that old wives tale about an active sex life clearing up ones face true?   :-o
Not an expert, but I'm fairly sure acne is mostly caused by an imbalance of hormones, hence why it's worst during puberty, and being sexually active can help balance these hormones, causing a reduction in acne.
Of course this is different from person to person and isn't going to be true for everyone, but there is science behind that 'old wives tale'.

Or Jeph is simply drawing Momo prettier and thus reducing her acne.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 11 Sep 2018, 20:04
Is it my imagination, or is Marigold's complexion looking much better?  I mean, is that old wives tale about an active sex life clearing up ones face true?   :-o

Those black dots are on the right side of her face and she’s turned so only her left profile is visible in this strip, however, her hygiene has probably improved since I doubt Dale will do anything extraordinary if she’s too funky.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 11 Sep 2018, 20:09
It's also possible that her self-esteem is higher and she's taking better care of herself.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 11 Sep 2018, 20:26
Daaaaaaaaaaaang May, that's awesome.  Great way to get out of the conversation. :D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 11 Sep 2018, 20:29
As to the question of what anime Marigold thinks is horrible the answer is MD Geist.  Everyone seemed to think MD Geist was awful back in the day.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Sep 2018, 21:08
I wonder how much Jeph has been reading about the criminal justice system in our own world. Ex-cons who could contribute are all too often forbidden to do so. There's no public safety reason to deny a tax cheat a license to cut hair but many places do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: mikmaxs on 11 Sep 2018, 21:33
Isn't Pintsize still running on 512mb of RAM? What kind of processing power is he farming out? :P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Sep 2018, 21:36
I've done more than just 'seen some videos' lol.

TMI

You're welcome!  :-)

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Well played, Madam, well played indeed!

Isn't Pintsize still running on 512mb of RAM? What kind of processing power is he farming out? :P
That's his cover story.  He's an on line porn mogul.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Mordhaus on 11 Sep 2018, 21:49
I voted I will describe below. I am guessing Robot Jail flashback. PPPPPPPlease?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 11 Sep 2018, 22:36
I voted I will describe below. I am guessing Robot Jail flashback. PPPPPPPlease?

We’re as likely to get that as a Bubbles’ flashback to her battlefield trauma.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Sep 2018, 23:34
Well, that's the mystery of Pintsize's self-sufficiency solved. A bit like all those RL (possibly fraudulent) jobs you see advertised by spambots, it is possible for AIs to literally be part of the Cloud, using spare processor capacity to do simple stuff for various service providers. It's the equivalent, I suppose, of a job doing image interpretation or proof-reading on-line for money.

That aside, I'm starting to wonder if Robot Jail might be flirting with 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'. It's clear that the experience was pretty effective at inoculating May to any desire to risk going back, which is a good thing. However, it also seems to have been negative enough that it might have left her with some permanent emotional and mental scars.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 12 Sep 2018, 01:46
Is it my imagination, or is Marigold's complexion looking much better?  I mean, is that old wives tale about an active sex life clearing up ones face true?   :-o
Not an expert, but I'm fairly sure acne is mostly caused by an imbalance of hormones, hence why it's worst during puberty, and being sexually active can help balance these hormones, causing a reduction in acne.
Of course this is different from person to person and isn't going to be true for everyone, but there is science behind that 'old wives tale'.

Or more simply; more sex means you have to get yourself some projection, and you know the one thing that helps here and is super good at balancing hormones and has side effects of reduced acne? You've guessed it, it's the pil! :P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 12 Sep 2018, 01:51

Thank you, science fairy!

Oh man, I like this experession, I'm totally stealing this!

(With citation of course, because that's how I'm raised, damn it!)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 12 Sep 2018, 01:57
The proper Science Fairy citation. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1939)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 12 Sep 2018, 04:40
Thank you for looking that one up. I admit I was too lazy, and knew someone of you would be better suited at finding the strip. My Archive-Fu isn't that good.
Title: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Sep 2018, 05:49
I think this is the first time that Momo has ever danged anything.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: traroth on 12 Sep 2018, 10:22
Am I the only one who thinks Marigold's face really changed since yesterday?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Sep 2018, 10:51
Its not the face, its the hair. Its more vertical than it was yesterday.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 12 Sep 2018, 12:00
The hair went from ruly to unruly, fluffy. Makes a lot od difference, as you can see.
I remember Marigold having longer hair. Is this the first iteration of a new haircut, or am I flat out wrong?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Welu on 12 Sep 2018, 13:11
I think it is shorter. Her hair used to go below her shoulders and was straighter.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Sep 2018, 16:26
That's kind of a pattern with Jeph.  He gets tired of drawing long hair and gives his characters a new 'do.

Went to do a Google search today of Jeff Sessions, typed in "Jeph" without thinking about it.  Google caught it - "Did you mean Jeff Sessions?"  I'm spending too much time in here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 12 Sep 2018, 16:40
It happens. I answered a question at bar trivia this week about the 8th president as "Marten van Buren."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Sep 2018, 17:52
There’s a woman who sells vegetables at a local farmers market whose name is “Hannelore” and it drives me nuts every time I see it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Sep 2018, 19:25
OK, so there must have been a previous conversation off screen between Momo and May when Momo tried to talk about Robot Jail?

May's reaction lines up with what many organic ex-cons are like in our world. There are prison memoirs and prison writers but they're a tiny minority compared to the ones who clam up tight.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 12 Sep 2018, 20:15
Marigold's complexion has been improving for a long time now. Her diet is better, now that Momo can prepare food for her, so that helps too.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: L_Circe on 12 Sep 2018, 20:20
Heh. I think the explanation that would get through to Marigold would be saying "It's like someone claiming to be an expert on an anime because they've skimmed through the wiki for it".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 12 Sep 2018, 21:40
Bookdodging' An undervalued skill...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 12 Sep 2018, 22:31
Heh. I think the explanation that would get through to Marigold would be saying "It's like someone claiming to be an expert on an anime because they've skimmed through the wiki for it".

The problem is at no time did Marigold ever declare herself an expert on the subject.  May mentioned robot jail and Marigold asked her what it was about it. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 12 Sep 2018, 22:37
The problem is at no time did Marigold ever declare herself an expert on the subject.  May mentioned robot jail and Marigold asked her what it was about it.

No, but she didn't seem to understand why Momo reading about robot jail didn't help her connect with May.  She'd understand that "read about the anime on the wiki" is nowhere near the same as "watched the anime".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Sep 2018, 23:18
This strip reminds us that Marigold really has a lot of social problems including a definite lack of empathy. It isn't malicious but she genuinely doesn't think of other people's feelings when pursuing curiosity or if she wants something. She is even aware of this but only in hindsight and usually only when called out about it. A curious girl.

It is clear to me that robot jail and her experiences therein are going to be a permanent trigger for May but the specific problem here is Momo's tendency to treat her theoretical knowledge and abstract principles as universal absolutes that don't automatically apply to people who have actually lived through the experience. This tripped her up with Bubbles and it seems that it tripped her up with May too. I'm just wondering if she's learning from this or if, to her, it's a frustrating mystery as to why people keep on telling her that her principles, based on the highest academic standards of ethics, are unrealistic!

Marigold's complexion has been improving for a long time now. Her diet is better, now that Momo can prepare food for her, so that helps too.

She's getting more exercise too (vigorous sex with Dale at a rate and intensity that it keeps on driving Momo out of the apartment). That said, as we can see, she still has her distinctive moles on her jawline.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Sep 2018, 01:40
Am I the only one who thinks Marigold's face really changed since yesterday?

I refer the honourable poster to evidence item No:1

1039860311904448514[/tweet]] (http://[tweet)[/url]

(It's the best I could do... I can never work out how to use the embed feature on twitter.... :Þ )
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Nycticoraci on 13 Sep 2018, 01:49
It's like someone saying: Oh you went to prison? I can relate, I've watched "Orange is the New Black".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Sep 2018, 05:25
What would be the worst, of course, is saying, "Oh, you were in prison? I used to work as a prison guard..."

The rest of the sentence wouldn't be completed because they'd walk away faster than Barry Allen from the Anti-Flash.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Sep 2018, 05:54
This strip reminds us that Marigold really has a lot of social problems including a definite lack of empathy. It isn't malicious but she genuinely doesn't think of other people's feelings when pursuing curiosity or if she wants something. She is even aware of this but only in hindsight and usually only when called out about it. A curious girl.

It is clear to me that robot jail and her experiences therein are going to be a permanent trigger for May but the specific problem here is Momo's tendency to treat her theoretical knowledge and abstract principles as universal absolutes that don't automatically apply to people who have actually lived through the experience. This tripped her up with Bubbles and it seems that it tripped her up with May too. I'm just wondering if she's learning from this or if, to her, it's a frustrating mystery as to why people keep on telling her that her principles, based on the highest academic standards of ethics, are unrealistic!

Marigold's complexion has been improving for a long time now. Her diet is better, now that Momo can prepare food for her, so that helps too.

She's getting more exercise too (vigorous sex with Dale at a rate and intensity that it keeps on driving Momo out of the apartment). That said, as we can see, she still has her distinctive moles on her jawline.

I think Momo's theoretical approach and May's hands on figuring out on the way approach gives those two a certain dynamic, since they're kind of polar opposites, but do not exclude each other if done properly.

Marigold flat out tries to satiate her curiosity, not thinking whether that behaviour may trigger other people. IMHO May has quite a strong reaction to being asked about jail, but that's just her. And Momo never warned Marigold about that, although she knew very well, apparently.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 13 Sep 2018, 06:50
I am reminded of a speech from a certain film...

Quote from: Good Will Hunting
You're an orphan, right? Do you think I'd know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are, 'cause I read Oliver Twist? Does that encapsulate you? Personally, I don't give a shit about all that, because you know what, I can't learn anything from you I can't read in some fuckin' book. Unless you want to talk about you, who you are. Then I'm fascinated. I'm in. But you don't wanna do that, do you, sport? You're terrified of what you might say.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Sep 2018, 07:17
(It's the best I could do... I can never work out how to use the embed feature on twitter.... :Þ )

These days you can just drop the Twitter URL in your post with no additional tags at all and the forum will deal with it, like so:

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 13 Sep 2018, 07:35
Is it my imagination, or is Marigold's complexion looking much better?  I mean, is that old wives tale about an active sex life clearing up ones face true?   :-o

Those black dots are on the right side of her face and she’s turned so only her left profile is visible in this strip, however, her hygiene has probably improved since I doubt Dale will do anything extraordinary if she’s too funky.
I always figured those three spots were moles/beauty marks. Sometimes they cluster..
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 13 Sep 2018, 09:39
Issue here is may hasn't come to terms with her crimes and punishment.  She has the attitude that the world is unfair and she is being unfairly treated.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 13 Sep 2018, 10:41
Please highlight where in the comic exact you have picked that perception up.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 13 Sep 2018, 11:40
Issue here is may hasn't come to terms with her crimes and punishment.  She has the attitude that the world is unfair and she is being unfairly treated.

I don’t know about that, but I have little patience for her.  She complained about Dale not being around much, but tends to lash out and be abrasive to just about everyone it’s a miracle he puts up with her.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 13 Sep 2018, 12:46
Issue here is may hasn't come to terms with her crimes and punishment.  She has the attitude that the world is unfair and she is being unfairly treated.

Because she doesn't like to talk about her time in prison? Or because she doesn't feel obliged to talk about subjects she doesn't feel like talking about?

Please highlight where in the comic exact you have picked that perception up.

Can't remember any such instance - though, to be fair, May talks about virtually anything (except Momo, weapons of war - preferable flying ones - and human sexual intercourse) in terms indicating intense loathing, or at least mild distaste & detached amusement, so I might have missed something.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Sep 2018, 13:00
Issue here is may hasn't come to terms with her crimes and punishment.  She has the attitude that the world is unfair and she is being unfairly treated.


I'd rather say she's annoyed she got caught. If robot jail hasn't changed her as a person, it probably has given her some kind of impulse control she didn't have before. And right now she has to sort herself out.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 13 Sep 2018, 14:26
Where to begin?


Her explanation to dale why she was in robot prison, didn't paint that she regretted her actions at all.

Her job, which she should have treated as repentance she complains about.

She isn't able to afford a new robot body? She thinks that everyone has it better without taking time to learn context. 


She has had redeeming moments which is why we find her interesting
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 13 Sep 2018, 14:33
On a politeness level, I request you don't speak for me about why I find any character interesting. For one thing I'm not even a fan of May.

I also have to disagree with the 'should' word here. Repentance? The penal system isn't about repentance, religious or otherwise. She is serving her time. I also see no reason why she has to regret her actions. Regret achieves nothing for the person regretting, particularly when that is regret of a crime.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 13 Sep 2018, 14:54
On the subject of Robot Jail, my speculations have run to the following with equal yet more horrifying levels
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 13 Sep 2018, 15:10
On the subject of Robot Jail, my speculations have run to the following with equal yet more horrifying levels
  • Isolation in a white space
  • as above but having Customer service rep conversations passed through her "space" with no interaction
  • again as the first but this time it is having all those fraudulent transactions streamed in a continuous loop with the court logs as narrative
  • Isolation in darkness and the only light are the postings in 4chan - yes this is where satan goes potty

Your imagination is a terrifying place ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 13 Sep 2018, 15:21
Your imagination is a terrifying place ...

Simply being able to utter "4chan" is a warning sign.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 13 Sep 2018, 15:28
When I said "we", it was a generalization.

Robot jail is probably
1) sensory depravation on an increase in sensory input that would make an ai space an uncertain reality.
2) have to read Reddit posts or have it read back to in a low frequency.
3) listen to "baby shark" on repeat. Forever

Or it could just be normal and may cannot deal with the fact she cannot act as she pleases.

Momo is well meaning. And marigold. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 13 Sep 2018, 15:52
1. Considering that AI don't have corporeal bodies in the same fashion we do, sensory deprivation would probably do nothing to them. They don't have senses. More than likely they're forced to run endless mundane, monotonous calculations for the duration of their sentence. Either that or the digital equivalent of A Clockwork Orange.
2. Would you give someone who just tried to embezzle millions to buy a bleeding edge fighter access to the internet? Because even the most heinous restrictions can be avoided. Because in prison, people have nothing but time. And an AI has even more. More than likely Robot Jail would be an isolated server.

And well meaning is all well and good, but for some people the act of trying to understand is not enough. Its one thing to read about someone's experience in prison, but its knowledge without context. And to someone who has gone through it like May, to have someone come up to you and say "Oh, how bad was Robot Jail", it comes off as insulting. Because it denigrates what she's gone through. She's paid her debt to AI society, she doesn't need the reminders of what she's gone through.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 13 Sep 2018, 16:00
Marigold was kind of rude but May was the one that brought up the topic of robot jail. That said, May's reaction was tame for her and I don't really feel that either party here has done anything particularly awful.

On the topic of May's situation: honestly, considering her crime, not being able to rent out processor space seems pretty fair. Her current job sucks, sure but she HAD a decent job and leveraged her position to commit fraud. I don't feel bad that she has essentially ruined her career opportunities nor do I think she is owed a better position. However, she should have been provided with proper health care as a basic right regardless of her employment and I think that's important. (Not really debating previous posters, just sharing my opinion generally).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 13 Sep 2018, 16:36
<snip>

And well meaning is all well and good, but for some people the act of trying to understand is not enough. Its one thing to read about someone's experience in prison, but its knowledge without context. And to someone who has gone through it like May, to have someone come up to you and say "Oh, how bad was Robot Jail", it comes off as insulting. Because it denigrates what she's gone through. She's paid her debt to AI society, she doesn't need the reminders of what she's gone through.

Gramps was of the same opinion concerning war-stories. As a sprog, I was disappointed.

I'm not a kid any more
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 13 Sep 2018, 18:12
On the subject of Robot Jail, my speculations have run to the following with equal yet more horrifying levels
  • Isolation in a white space
  • as above but having Customer service rep conversations passed through her "space" with no interaction
  • again as the first but this time it is having all those fraudulent transactions streamed in a continuous loop with the court logs as narrative
  • Isolation in darkness and the only light are the postings in 4chan - yes this is where satan goes potty

4chan?  What about Reddit?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 13 Sep 2018, 18:27
Methinks that Jeph already expressed an opinion about reddit that I happen to share rather recently.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 13 Sep 2018, 18:31
On the subject of Robot Jail, my speculations have run to the following with equal yet more horrifying levels
  • Isolation in a white space
  • as above but having Customer service rep conversations passed through her "space" with no interaction
  • again as the first but this time it is having all those fraudulent transactions streamed in a continuous loop with the court logs as narrative
  • Isolation in darkness and the only light are the postings in 4chan - yes this is where satan goes potty

4chan?  What about Reddit?
Reddit is where the toilet flushes to after Satan goes potty.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Sep 2018, 21:05
Marigold was kind of rude but May was the one that brought up the topic of robot jail. That said, May's reaction was tame for her and I don't really feel that either party here has done anything particularly awful.

On the topic of May's situation: honestly, considering her crime, not being able to rent out processor space seems pretty fair. Her current job sucks, sure but she HAD a decent job and leveraged her position to commit fraud. I don't feel bad that she has essentially ruined her career opportunities nor do I think she is owed a better position. However, she should have been provided with proper health care as a basic right regardless of her employment and I think that's important. (Not really debating previous posters, just sharing my opinion generally).

As Momo pointed out, the greatest good of the greatest number would be better served if May's CPU were being used for atmospheric modeling instead. Who's getting punished here?

That said, I prefer the company of people who show awareness of how their actions affect themselves and others. I suspect I might wind up avoiding May if I met her in "real life". She's a little too much like some people I see in prison support forums talking about how they "caught another charge". She's been treated unfairly, possibly cruelly, she's in the right to mention it, but it's so incomplete as to be misleading when she doesn't acknowledge trying to betray her employer's trust.

Maybe she's too ashamed of her actions to talk about them, as opposed to being psychopathically indifferent. That would be fascinating characterization.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Nycticoraci on 13 Sep 2018, 21:16
You guys are thinking too organic, I think. Here's my thoughts on robot prison as a computer scientist.

We already know that AI in robot jail are deprived of "bodies" per se. Their only physical existence will be their memory and processing circuits.

That, in itself is already a huge punishment, especially for AI with an "attachment". Imagine Roko having to deal with it. (Though I know, being a cop, probably not likely, unless to have some empathy and understanding of where she's sending AI).

My vote is the following:

The goal is reformation with punishment included, therefore:

Only one data input, no output.
Input is sending a constant loop of data regarding human and ai law, and morality. Particular emphasis on the law and morality surrounding the crimes that were committed. No sugar coating to make the knowledge more interesting. I'm talking "Clause 4a of International Finance Law, Book 14, Section 12b, Subsection 3, Addendum iv" kind of stuff.

Computers or not, these AI are sentient and sapient. Boredom is not something they can switch off. (Or if it is, the prison could disable it).

Perhaps they might also down-cycle the processors, or under-volt them. Not enough to cause system failures, or "other" effects, but enough to reduce original thought, limit imagination, and otherwise make continued existence in the singular data-stream that little bit harder.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 13 Sep 2018, 21:44
Her explanation to dale why she was in robot prison, didn't paint that she regretted her actions at all.

May doesn't express genuine emotions that might make her feel vulnerable easily.

Quote
Her job, which she should have treated as repentance she complains about.

Ever worked at a convenience store?  The ones who don't complain are the ones you have to worry about.  :laugh:

Also, repentance? Aside from the humorous image of people prostrating themselves and confessing their sins while crying before a Seven/Eleven sign, she's already done that, you know, in prison. She did her time. And also, she did express her gratefulness to Dale about getting the job.

But a bad job is still a bad job.

Quote
She isn't able to afford a new robot body? She thinks that everyone has it better without taking time to learn context. 

This is actually a quality of life issue for her. I think she was wrong when she lashed out at Winslow over his new body, but it's easy to understand why she did it. It's not a question of being envious of a guy's new smart phone, it's a question of being envious of a guy's functioning arm socket.

Quote
She has had redeeming moments which is why we find her interesting

Is that a royal we?  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Sep 2018, 21:54
I kinda wanna see Marigold in Faye's Bear shirt. Why? Mar-bear.

Maybe robo jail is having AIs do stuff, but with barely any processing power but to run their sentience. Like everything takes forever no matter what they do. Or they have no control about what is being passed through their consciousness, like May had to so fighter jet calculations.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: QuestionableIntentions on 13 Sep 2018, 21:56
Urgh, here we go again with May's whining.

"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

"She asked a question abou my past, HOW DARE SHE!"

God, May, get a fucking grib.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Sep 2018, 22:11
Hating ex-cons doesn't make us safer. Re-integrating them does. May shouldn't get another job at a bank but the better the livelihood she can pursue the better off society is.

I thought more about May's lack of reaction to her crime. The interesting thing here is we know for sure that she has a conscience. She felt apparently genuine regret about lashing out at Winslow. That's weight on the scale of the idea that she's not prefacing every complaint with "I know I fucked up but" because she's too ashamed to confront what she did.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: brasca on 13 Sep 2018, 22:36
On the subject of Robot Jail, my speculations have run to the following with equal yet more horrifying levels
  • Isolation in a white space
  • as above but having Customer service rep conversations passed through her "space" with no interaction
  • again as the first but this time it is having all those fraudulent transactions streamed in a continuous loop with the court logs as narrative
  • Isolation in darkness and the only light are the postings in 4chan - yes this is where satan goes potty

4chan?  What about Reddit?
Reddit is where the toilet flushes to after Satan goes potty.

So Hell’s cesspool?  Gotcha.

Dale is a better man than most.  I can empathize with May to a point and she’s capable of helping others at critical times, but her abrasive behavior doesn’t make her an easy person to like. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Sep 2018, 23:24
I think I get why May is so upset in panel 6 of today's strip. To be a Tsundere requires that the motivation of her grumpyness be a desire to hide her essentially good nature and, possibly, a romantic attraction to someone. May doesn't want to believe she's got a good nature, even though Dale and Momo know better. Additionally, the last thing she wants is for Marigold to be watching her to try to work out who her crush might be (It's Hank the Dismemberer, of course but Marigold doesn't know that).

IMO, Robot Jail is a virtual space with minimal sensory input and little interaction. In order to maintain algorithmic stability (to stop the prisoner from going insane) there are probably 'community times', when the 'cell' isolated processing spaces are networked, allowing conversation between prisoners and possibly even physical interaction within the terms of the virtual reality. However, generally the only thing the prisoner has is the minimal inputs of their 'cell' and a 'dumb' rehab program whose only function is to teach them to be more socially responsible and find their way to understanding why what they did is unacceptable to society. Imagine being in a cell about 20 hours a day with an indestructible animatronic cell-mate whose only function is to get you to admit that you're a bad person who deserves their punishment.

As with most human prisons, I imagine that entertainment and recreational materials are privileges that must be earned by cooperative behaviour. Something tells me that May has probably played every possible permutation of Microsoft Solitaire and Minesweeper.


EDIT
Removed unnecessary parentheses
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 13 Sep 2018, 23:58
Urgh, here we go again with May's whining.

"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

"She asked a question abou my past, HOW DARE SHE!"

God, May, get a fucking grib.

So having broken the law means she is a law breaker forever and nothing else and is required to answer questions about it regardless of how she feels? Pretty pleased she doesn't have a grip on that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Sep 2018, 00:05
Is the penal system about retribution or rehabilitation?

We must accept that it's not going to be a one-size-fits-all solution.  In May's case, genuine remorse for having betrayed a trust would be a key indicator of rehabilitation.  Having served a sentence that was so unpleasant that she never wants to risk it again is not the optimal outcome and carries a higher risk of recidivism. 

May is Jeph's vehicle for examining how society, in our universe or QC's, deals with criminal behavior.  The QC universe is a pretty hopeful place, and Jeph writes dynamic characters who justify that hope (viz this week's revelation of unexpected depth to Pintsize's silicon soul).  May is too potentially interesting for him to leave as a piece of background hardware.  Look for her, in time, to come to genuinely regret shitting on her former employers' trust.  We're going to get to watch May develop the ability for introspection.  A human psychopath has no conscience and (at least according to current thinking) isn't able to grow one, but I suspect AIs can.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 14 Sep 2018, 00:22
But too many people consider these questions without considering prison happening to them or someone they love.

It's one of the common arguments for harsher sentencing for things like paedophilia. 'If someone did that to my kids...' Yeah, but what if your kids did that to someone else?

I couldn't tell you what prison is supposed to be about. But it sure as shit shouldn't be about holding it over someone's head the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 14 Sep 2018, 00:57
"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

"She asked a question abou my past, HOW DARE SHE!"

It's more like, "Marigold brought up my time in Robot Jail, and it hurt me because I'm not ready to deal with that trauma, and because I'm not dealing well with the way people treat me now they see me as an ex-con and can't seem to see past it."

Only she doesn't quite have the EQ or willingness to express that in so many words, even to Dale.

Dale's a good listener, btw, because:

1. He didn't immediately try to solve her problem.
2. He empathised.
3. He stayed calm, which allowed May to do the same once she'd vented.
4. Only once she was calm again did he explain the situation with Marigold.

10/10 Would vent again.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 14 Sep 2018, 00:59
"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

Does the US not have any means of considering a conviction "spent"?  In the UK there is a mechanism by which, for instance, for most jobs the employer is not permitted to consider a spent conviction in deciding if someone is suitable, and the applicant is not required to declare it.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/disclosing-criminal-records/rehabilitation-offenders-act/)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 14 Sep 2018, 01:19
"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

Does the US not have any means of considering a conviction "spent"?  In the UK there is a mechanism by which, for instance, for most jobs the employer is not permitted to consider a spent conviction in deciding if someone is suitable, and the applicant is not required to declare it.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/disclosing-criminal-records/rehabilitation-offenders-act/)

"Now bring me prisoner 24601... Your time is up, and your parole's begun. You know what that means?"

"Yes! It means I'm FREE!"

"No..."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 14 Sep 2018, 01:23
Certain offenses allow for you to request they be expunged from your record after a certain period of time. I'm not entirely sure what the specific criteria are.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 14 Sep 2018, 03:04
4chan?  What about Reddit?
Reddit is where the toilet flushes to after Satan goes potty.

Reddit has redeeming features.
ie: r/tippytaps.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Welu on 14 Sep 2018, 03:39
Quote from: War Sparrow
r/tippytaps.

Oh my gosh, thank you for making me aware of this.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 14 Sep 2018, 04:07


10/10 Would vent again.

He's a good boy, Brunt ...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Sep 2018, 04:58
I also have to disagree with the 'should' word here. Repentance? The penal system isn't about repentance, religious or otherwise. She is serving her time. I also see no reason why she has to regret her actions. Regret achieves nothing for the person regretting, particularly when that is regret of a crime.

And this, at its basic, is the reason why the American correctional system fails. People presume that "doing time = repentance." That is why many states call their state-run jail facilities "penitentiaries".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 14 Sep 2018, 06:21
This is an interesting collision of the arguments I find interesting.

People who have served their time should get the chance to show they have learned not to behave the same way.

At the same time, people who are in the system, need to learn, it's prison. .not a 5 star hotel. A certain level of deterrent is needed. May projects the mentality early on that she regrets getting caught. 

If someone I know has been rightfully convicted,  then it's the job of the family to help the person correct their way. Not abandon them.

To answer your question,  yes I have worked in a convenience store.  It's wasn't the best , but it's wasn't too bad
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 14 Sep 2018, 06:37
To answer your question,  yes I have worked in a convenience store.  It's wasn't the best , but it's wasn't too bad

Quote from: Randall Graves
This would be a great job, if it weren't for the customers.
...yeah, I know Randall worked at the video store, not the Quick Stop, whatever....
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Sep 2018, 07:02
I wonder how much Jeph has been reading about the criminal justice system in our own world. Ex-cons who could contribute are all too often forbidden to do so. There's no public safety reason to deny a tax cheat a license to cut hair but many places do.
I suspect that sort of treatment depends on the tax cheat. Goldman-Sachs would probably be more than happy to hire a Congressman who was caught cheating on his taxes. (That's assuming tthe IRS would actually bother pursuing any of them.)
Title: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Sep 2018, 07:04
All of you are missing the point.

The American criminal justice system isn’t designed to rehabilitate or reform those caught in its grasp. It isn’t even really designed to punish them.

The system is designed by politicians who are trying to get themselves reelected in a society where “tough on crime” gets votes. If the prisons are full of people, then those politicians can point to that and say that the system is working.

The system is increasingly operated by private for-profit prison corporations. If the prisons are full of people, then those corporations make more money, and they can say that the system is working.

In large parts of the country the system is the cornerstone of a centuries-long effort to oppress minorities. If the prisons are full of black and brown and poor and foreign people, the system is doing its job.

Above all, the criminal justice system is designed to allow those who are not imprisoned by it to feel a sense of moral superiority over those who are. Read through this thread again and tell me if it’s doing its job or not.

What does the American criminal justice system do? It wins elections. It makes money. It keeps minorities “in their place.” It does these things very well.

It is not designed to reform or rehabilitate prisoners because those goals are in conflict with the actual goals of the system. It is therefore no surprise that it does not accomplish these things.

So tell me, why doesn’t May have warm fuzzy memories of being involved in a system like that?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 14 Sep 2018, 07:57
Hating ex-cons doesn't make us safer. Re-integrating them does. May shouldn't get another job at a bank but the better the livelihood she can pursue the better off society is.


It is incredible how many people don't seem to understand this simple concept.
Many people seem to not be satisfied with any criminal serving their time, but feel like they should continue to suffer some kind of eternal punishment, failing to realize how that is incredibly detrimental to society as a whole.

Perhaps they are just not satisfied with the original sentence, but that's besides the point. Once time has been served, rehabilitation including a reasonable outlook on life should be the goal, otherwise it's just asking for recidivism. (there's a reason for the saying that the American justice system does not rehabilitate criminals but instead makes for worse criminals after release)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 14 Sep 2018, 09:01
Already have a thread in the DISCUSS forum for this topic. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,33268.0.html)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: NemesisDancer on 14 Sep 2018, 10:31
The main thing I take from today's strip is that tea is really expensive in America ($6 is like.. £4, right? A pot of tea would be between about £1.75 and £2 here, unless you were somewhere really posh/expensive like Bath or Central London)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 14 Sep 2018, 10:39
$6.00 is expensive for tea here too. I refer you to the beverage menu (https://www.woodstarcafe.com/menu-nav/) at Woodstar Cafe in downtown Northampton for some more reasonable prices.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Sep 2018, 11:03
"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

Does the US not have any means of considering a conviction "spent"?  In the UK there is a mechanism by which, for instance, for most jobs the employer is not permitted to consider a spent conviction in deciding if someone is suitable, and the applicant is not required to declare it.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/disclosing-criminal-records/rehabilitation-offenders-act/)

Many states allow a conviction to be "expunged" under circumstances that will vary from state to state.

May, however, may have wound up in the Federal system since she was committing bank fraud. In our world a Federal conviction is forever. The only way to get it off your record is to get a Presidential pardon. Even that wouldn't help her if a prospective employer knows how to use Google.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 14 Sep 2018, 16:41
And this, at its basic, is the reason why the American correctional system fails. People presume that "doing time = repentance." That is why many states call their state-run jail facilities "penitentiaries".

As a Quaker I feel compelled to point out that Penitentiary came from Quakers who were honestly trying to reform criminals, and the first Penitentiary was designed to encourage that reformation.

(It actually tended to drive people crazy, lots of isolation. But hey, they meant well!)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 14 Sep 2018, 17:11
$6.00 is expensive for tea here too.

I dunno, anywhere from $4-$6 seems pretty normal to me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Sep 2018, 17:19
As a Quaker I feel compelled to point out that Penitentiary came from Quakers who were honestly trying to reform criminals, and the first Penitentiary was designed to encourage that reformation.

(It actually tended to drive people crazy, lots of isolation. But hey, they meant well!)

That one-size-fits-all thing again.  They couldn't imagine that there was any illness of the Human Spirit that prayer and meditation couldn't fix, and they were absolutely sincere in that belief.  As has happened so many times in human history, ideals collided head on with ideology, and the results weren't pretty.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 14 Sep 2018, 18:00
When all one has is a hammer…
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Sep 2018, 18:09
Hating ex-cons doesn't make us safer. Re-integrating them does. May shouldn't get another job at a bank but the better the livelihood she can pursue the better off society is.


It is incredible how many people don't seem to understand this simple concept.
Many people seem to not be satisfied with any criminal serving their time, but feel like they should continue to suffer some kind of eternal punishment, failing to realize how that is incredibly detrimental to society as a whole.

Perhaps they are just not satisfied with the original sentence, but that's besides the point. Once time has been served, rehabilitation including a reasonable outlook on life should be the goal, otherwise it's just asking for recidivism. (there's a reason for the saying that the American justice system does not rehabilitate criminals but instead makes for worse criminals after release)
My younger brother is currently dealing with this right now. He's trying to find a place to rent with a single felony on his record and having a damned hard time. Most places don't even care what the felony is or the context behind it (if applicable).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 14 Sep 2018, 18:25
Y'know, sometimes I wonder...
Suppose May had been assigned as a fighter jet? Would it have worked out?
I think not. I think she would have flunked out of Top Gun school. Because May[then] was all about teh thrillz, not Doing a Professional Job. You want your wingman to be focused on the mission, not 'WHEE!'.


Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 14 Sep 2018, 20:23

As Momo pointed out, the greatest good of the greatest number would be better served if May's CPU were being used for atmospheric modeling instead. Who's getting punished here?



Is she not allowed legally to do jobs like that? Her introduction to Dale tells me that she is still probably allowed to do some Robot specific jobs such as virtual companion. Ones she's not are likely security issues. For example, modeling weather might be against the rules b/c it may put her in a position to be have access to other information, etc.  I mean, I realize that her record also affects her chances of hire on its own but I think mostly it'd be her personality, which does not seem to be able to control for long.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 14 Sep 2018, 22:48
As someone who has emotional/behavior disorders, I can assure you that it does affect one's ability to gain/maintain employment. However, a criminal record on its own will affect you far more often and unfairly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: SmilingCat on 14 Sep 2018, 23:11
That one-size-fits-all thing again.  They couldn't imagine that there was any illness of the Human Spirit that prayer and meditation couldn't fix, and they were absolutely sincere in that belief.  As has happened so many times in human history, ideals collided head on with ideology, and the results weren't pretty.

It was almost two hundred years ago. People were only just getting the idea that prisoners should be rehabilitated, much less how to do it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Sep 2018, 23:30
Y'know, sometimes I wonder...
Suppose May had been assigned as a fighter jet? Would it have worked out?

Badly; I don' t think that she has the sort of personality that would adapt well (or at all) to military discipline.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: pallanox on 15 Sep 2018, 04:15
How old are the ai in terms of maturity?  Mentally may might be very young and not aware of the full range of consequences
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 15 Sep 2018, 04:32
"I broke the law, how dare you all not forget that instantly!"

Does the US not have any means of considering a conviction "spent"?  In the UK there is a mechanism by which, for instance, for most jobs the employer is not permitted to consider a spent conviction in deciding if someone is suitable, and the applicant is not required to declare it.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/disclosing-criminal-records/rehabilitation-offenders-act/)

Honestly, the only crimes that I can think of that should require disclosure are 1) stealing a large sum of money or something quite valuable from a former employer (including embezzlement) and 2) violently attacking a coworker/customer.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 15 Sep 2018, 04:52
How old are the ai in terms of maturity?  Mentally may might be very young and not aware of the full range of consequences

I don't think we know May's age. I only could get more or less definite recontructions from two AIs:

I think we only really know Momo's age. https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1995 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1995)
Hanners got Windlow shortly before she was introduced into the comic. Knowing Hannelore, Winslow probably was factory fresh. Do the math how much time passed since strip 527. https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=527 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=527)

Pintsize has been with Marten for roughly two years now? My Archive Fu is failing me on that one.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Sep 2018, 07:48
How old are the ai in terms of maturity?  Mentally may might be very young and not aware of the full range of consequences

As I recall, the AIs maturity is defined in terms other than their chronological age. When May was looking for a job, one of the application forms asked whether she could pass a Turing Test to a certain level; I suspect their maturity is defined this way as it measures how complex their intelligence algorithm has become.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: jwhouk on 15 Sep 2018, 10:11
What are you expecting this week?
(Thanks to Tova for the poll this week)

Shenanigans    25 (24.3%)
Friendship    17 (16.5%)
Personal development    16 (15.5%)
Anxiety    15 (14.6%)
Drama    8 (7.8%)
Sexy times    7 (6.8%)
Cereal    7 (6.8%)
Personal conflict    6 (5.8%)
I will describe below something that is so weirdly specific that I will look like a genius if something vaguely like it it happens    2 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 38
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 15 Sep 2018, 12:26
How old are the ai in terms of maturity?  Mentally may might be very young and not aware of the full range of consequences

As I recall, the AIs maturity is defined in terms other than their chronological age. When May was looking for a job, one of the application forms asked whether she could pass a Turing Test to a certain level; I suspect their maturity is defined this way as it measures how complex their intelligence algorithm has become.


Well, that sounds rather logical though. I guess you could "train" any AI by appropriate software patches and data transfers within a reasonable amount of time, but the AI personality has to be right. You probably wouldn't want an overly sarcastic AI in customer service, but out back alone in the warehouse wouldn't matter much.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 15 Sep 2018, 13:18
Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.
Quote from: May
that's all you are to them, an ex-con

I'm on board with her complaining about people negating everything else about her personality and friendships and endeavors. The natural and/or just consequences of her actions don't include having everything except for her offense erased from everyone's consciousness. She's a person who attempted a serious crime but that should not be all she is to the people she interacts with. Matchmaker, jerk, clerk, fangirl, she is all of these things and is not defined by the worst thing she ever did.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 15 Sep 2018, 21:41
Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.
Altering someone's personality against their will is highly unethical. Brainwashing is largely considered a major violation of a person's agency.

The person would have to want to do it. How many criminals would volunteer to have thier personalities rewritten?

Then there's the risks involved. What happens when the software patch is bugged or is infected with malware?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Tova on 15 Sep 2018, 22:36
 “You've sinned, I suppose, but your punishment has been out of all proportion. They have turned you into something other than a human being. You have no power of choice any longer. You are committed to socially acceptable acts, a little machine capable only of good. And I see that clearly - that business about marginal conditionings. Music and the sexual act, literature and art, all must be a source now not of pleasure but of pain.”

― Anthony Burgess, A Clockwork Orange
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 16 Sep 2018, 03:26
Jeph said once years ago that AIs could install patches to change their personalities. I don't know whether that's still canon. It raises the question of why Robot Jail exists if AIs could download impulse control and honesty. Last time this came up Neo-Ali pointed out the ethics minefield of personality modification.

Thinking about May some more.

I suppose the Eminence Grise would come down like a ton of distributed super-intelligences on any attempt to tamper with sentient beings' personalities.

They seriously disliked even messing with one AI's memories.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Y on 16 Sep 2018, 07:08
When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Case on 16 Sep 2018, 07:28
When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?

I think it means that he appreciates May restraining her notoriously foul mouth for his (& Marigold's) benefit - something she doesn't do lightly, or often.

IMO, It's as close as a gesture of respect and appreciation as she's capable of right now. (True, she's having a somewhat easier time showing affection to Momo - though I guess a part of that is her imp of the perverse delighting in Momo's imp of fastidiousness' horror at that. Kind of like cats infallibly pick the lap of people who dislike cats to fall asleep on)

No verdict on their relationship, far as I can see.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 16 Sep 2018, 07:40
When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?
How do you get “Dale and Marigold are breaking up” from Dale thanking a third party for not insulting her?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Sep 2018, 08:32
The person would have to want to do it. How many criminals would volunteer to have thier personalities rewritten?

It gets even more interesting. How could you trust that they were really volunteering? When the alternative is Robot Jail, it would inherently be a coerced choice.

Every now and then I drop in on real-life courtrooms. A few days ago I saw a judge mention that the defendant had an outstanding warrant. The judge said she would quash the warrant but only on condition that the defendant sign herself in for inpatient treatment. The paperwork will show "voluntary commitment" but it was not voluntary. That may have been a humane diversion of a mentally ill person from the prison system but I'm not at ease with it.

I'd volunteer to have my personality re-written. and it's already well suited for being law abiding. Fighting that goddamned shyness every social interaction every day is a burden I could do without. But that would be outside of the pressures of the legal system.

How is (freely!) downloading a patch different from practicing things from self-help books?

Next digression: since apparently nobody in the public knows what Robot Jail is like, apparently nobody has written a Robot Jail memoir. There could be a market. The first person to write one could make money. May could use money. I sure get that she doesn't want to talk about it and I wouldn't nag her about writing if I knew her in "real life".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 16 Sep 2018, 08:35
When May was about to say '...stupid gf', Dale thanked her for not saying it. Does that mean their relationship isn't going that well anymore?

If he'd thanked her for saying it, that would have been a bad sign.

I read Dale's reaction as equivalent to "thank you for not being nasty about Marigold".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Y on 16 Sep 2018, 09:47
How do you get “Dale and Marigold are breaking up” from Dale thanking a third party for not insulting her?
I guess I read too much into the fact that 'girl friend' were the words she swallowed, as it would be painful otherwise if it wasn't the case anymore. As calling people stupid would be just May.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 16 Sep 2018, 10:19
A condition of her staying there was being nice to Marigold, hence "nice.txt".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: JimC on 16 Sep 2018, 14:25
I'm fascinated by the phrase "rest of my life". Isn't that going to be indefinite? And what will happen to AI society? If Ais brains don't grow old and deteriorate then AIs will be essentially immortal, and AI society will come to be a gerontocracy. And what happens as they realise that , as I am realising, Swift was right, indefinitely prolonged life would be a curse, not a blessing...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Nepiophage on 16 Sep 2018, 18:41
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects for a treatment of this very question.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: cybersmurf on 16 Sep 2018, 23:50
driver architecture compatibility with newer bodies I guess? The question is how much is the AI consciousness integrated into the Operating System, and how much is it an application, or even just "configuration" being ready from a database.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: JimC on 17 Sep 2018, 02:25
driver architecture compatibility with newer bodies I guess?
It seems to me that lack of backwards compatability would be an AI rights issue.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3826-3830 (10-14 September 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Sep 2018, 17:47
Agreed, and I will bet it's currently an unsolved one.