Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 02 Dec 2018, 13:41

Title: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Dec 2018, 13:41
Okay, we have a new character so that allows us to wildly speculate, at least until Jeph clears up the mystery. Just who is she?

My guess, based on her very first appearance is that she's a careers adviser. Basically, she's just finished taking Roko's details and is now looking for a good job placement. The flustered fascination with human sexuality and whether Roko might possibly have a similar interest is just a personal quirk, a bit like May's detached hilarity about the kinks some humans have! :laugh:

That said, I can't help but be fascinated by the idea that she isn't a synthetic at all but is, instead, something Beatrice Chatham is using in an attempt to get 'in' with Hannelore again. Beatrice... Beeptrice? You have to admit that it makes some sense. First step is to establish herself as someone that Hannelore, with her interest in improving the lot of the average synthetic, may yet encounter!

Tin-Foil Hatting aside, I'm expecting this week to be more Beeptrice/Roko double-act, probably with lots of flustered double-entrendres!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 02 Dec 2018, 15:03
Let's agree to spell Beepatrice the same way Jeph does...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 02 Dec 2018, 17:34
Did you really not read #3883 panel one as Beepatrice offering Roko a job?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Dec 2018, 17:52
Judging from that panel, I’d say Beepatrice runs a nonprofit and she’s offering Roko a job. What said nonprofit does is yet to be revealed. Hopefully nothing involving baked goods of any kind.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 02 Dec 2018, 17:58
Or hydraulic presses.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: zioninavision on 02 Dec 2018, 19:23
i am enjoying the reference-yet-not to Alice Grove!!  That is, it was left unrevealed what the circumstances of the moon were that would have put into motion the specific event within the story. 

Beepatrice's idea would certainly fit, but, it could have also been something entirely different!  Overall I am fond of the idea that there are now theories and perhaps unusual aspects of the moon in both of Jeph's multiverses!!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 02 Dec 2018, 20:26
It would be cool if she was somehow related to Corpse Witch, but I think she's just a charity manager. 

i am enjoying the reference-yet-not to Alice Grove!!  That is, it was left unrevealed what the circumstances of the moon were that would have put into motion the specific event within the story. 

Beepatrice's idea would certainly fit, but, it could have also been something entirely different!  Overall I am fond of the idea that there are now theories and perhaps unusual aspects of the moon in both of Jeph's multiverses!!


Agreed.  I miss that strip.  I still keep my eyes peeled for background characters that look like Ardent and Gavia.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 02 Dec 2018, 20:40
I take it that by "dark side" Beepatrice actually means the far side of the Moon, the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth. There is no "dark side" of the Moon; the entire satellite experiences a normal day/night cycle. </ObPedant>
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Storel on 02 Dec 2018, 22:46
Technically, the dark side of the moon is the side currently facing away from the sun...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Dec 2018, 23:13
The purpose of today's strip appears to be to remind Roko that everyone has their own little strange quirks and that you therefore should be less hasty to consider yourself 'weird' in any way. I'm guessing Jeph is saying that she should be less harsh on herself.

Interestingly, there really is a conspiracy theory like the one Beeptrice describes. Robert Bigelow, the space entrepreneur and casino owner strongly subscribes to it. He wants to build a space station in lunar orbit just to prove it.

I take it that by "dark side" Beepatrice actually means the far side of the Moon, the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth. There is no "dark side" of the Moon; the entire satellite experiences a normal day/night cycle. </ObPedant>

The term 'dark side' to refer to the side of the Moon that always points away from Earth is firmly rooted in popular culture, having appeared in both music and film.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 03 Dec 2018, 00:01
There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it’s all dark...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 03 Dec 2018, 01:07
Yeah, don't be silly, Roko!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Dec 2018, 01:13
Let's agree to spell Beepatrice the same way Jeph does...

Would you believe that I've never been aware of that 'a' after 'Beep' before this morning?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: DSL on 03 Dec 2018, 04:34
I wonder how the moon-hoaxheads would do in the QCVerse, in which it seems that there is a much larger human (including AI friends) presence on the moon than there is in our own.

Perhaps Punchbot could contract himself out to Buzz Aldrin for dealing with the Bart Sibrels of the QCVerse.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: cesium133 on 03 Dec 2018, 05:36
There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it’s all dark...
There is no dark side of the moon. It's just a conspiracy by the CIA to sell more Pink Floyd albums.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Dec 2018, 06:26
And now we know what the nonprofit agency does. “Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency”. Robo-dog rescue!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 03 Dec 2018, 07:19
And now we know what the nonprofit agency does. “Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency”. Robo-dog rescue!

Saw the sign too. Now I'm wondering if this is about AI pets that can be adopted by humans, or about helping AIs in their quest to adopt pets (e.g. spookybot with her non-AI dogs)?
I imagine it's mostly about the latter, since I can envision difficulties for AIs if they decide they'd like to adopt a cat or dog in terms of humans not accepting AIs as suitable for pet adoption.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 03 Dec 2018, 07:33
Technically, the dark side of the moon is the side currently facing away from the sun...
...which is not a constant, but always changing, so one cannot build a base "on the dark side" and expect it to stay there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 03 Dec 2018, 07:35

I take it that by "dark side" Beepatrice actually means the far side of the Moon, the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth. There is no "dark side" of the Moon; the entire satellite experiences a normal day/night cycle. </ObPedant>

The term 'dark side' to refer to the side of the Moon that always points away from Earth is firmly rooted in popular culture, having appeared in both music and film.
But it's incorrect and inaccurate.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 03 Dec 2018, 07:39
Saw the sign too. Now I'm wondering if this is about AI pets that can be adopted by humans, or about helping AIs in their quest to adopt pets (e.g. spookybot with her non-AI dogs)?
Spookybot appear to use "they/them" pronouns and speak about themselves in the first-person as "we". In appearance they remind me of the androgynous Desire of the Endless, from Neil Gaiman's The Sandman comic books.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Dec 2018, 07:41

I take it that by "dark side" Beepatrice actually means the far side of the Moon, the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth. There is no "dark side" of the Moon; the entire satellite experiences a normal day/night cycle. </ObPedant>

The term 'dark side' to refer to the side of the Moon that always points away from Earth is firmly rooted in popular culture, having appeared in both music and film.

But it's incorrect and inaccurate.

That doesn't matter, I'm afraid. 'Common usage' rules here and that means it is going to be used in casual discussion and is be understood because most people neither know about nor care about the more accurate terms.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Dec 2018, 07:48
And now we know what the nonprofit agency does. “Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency”. Robo-dog rescue!

Saw the sign too. Now I'm wondering if this is about AI pets that can be adopted by humans, or about helping AIs in their quest to adopt pets (e.g. spookybot with her non-AI dogs)?
I imagine it's mostly about the latter, since I can envision difficulties for AIs if they decide they'd like to adopt a cat or dog in terms of humans not accepting AIs as suitable for pet adoption.

Well, since in the QCverse AIs have the same rights as humans (at least in the US, by constitutional amendment), refusing to allow an AI to adopt a pet would probably be comparable to refusing to allow an Asian or a Muslim or a trans person to adopt a pet. In other words, it would result in a massive amount of bad publicity and a likely civil rights lawsuit.

No, I imagine something quite different. I suspect that there was a craze for AI pets some years ago that faded just as a massive number of AI pet models hit the market. So there are lots of robot dogs and cats and hedgehogs and humpback whales with no homes, and Uncanine Valley tries to find suitable companions (organic or AI) for them.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 03 Dec 2018, 09:01
If this is about robotic pets, I wonder if these would be sentient pets?

Given the fact that it is not completely understood how sentience arises, would it even be possible to create a pet-like sentience in-universe? Or is the best they can do a dog that is simply programmed to behave as a biologic dog but without being sentient?

Also, if there are sentient AI pets, this agency where Roko applied could also be more like a matching service. Think of the service that Marten used to get matched with a companion AI. This "Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency” could be a similar service but for matching companion AI pets with the person.

 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Otl1973 on 03 Dec 2018, 09:06
<pedantic mode>
The phrase “dark side of the moon” has nothing to do with lighting - it isn’t describing the far side as unlit. The “dark” refers to the unknown and unexplored (and in some ways unreachable).  It is the same sense as “darkest Africa” was used in “colonial era” literature- it was the great mysterious unknown.  This is the s nose it is used in the title of the Pink Floyd album, which is an exploration of the unknown of madness.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 03 Dec 2018, 09:13
And now we know what the nonprofit agency does. “Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency”. Robo-dog rescue!

And now, it turns out Cosmo is a robot...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Dec 2018, 09:36
Do android borzoi dream of electric wolves?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Dec 2018, 13:34
If we're going to get Floyd I am going to go full Floyd if you aren't all careful

Dark Side was on the Billboard 200 for something like 14 years. That means by the time it left the charts, the band had released four more albums, had a break-up/ hiatus and were about to release another.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Ouibeaux on 03 Dec 2018, 16:44
Wouldn't Earthlings be well beyond landing stuff on the moon in the QC universe?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Dec 2018, 17:06
If a private citizen can own a space station then we know the QC world space program is way ahead of ours.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Dec 2018, 18:36
Comic’s up. Fairy girl is back!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Pablo360 on 03 Dec 2018, 19:04
Everyone in Northampton is a tad strange.  Except, ironically, Marten Reed.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 03 Dec 2018, 20:01
Everyone in Northampton is a tad strange.  Except, ironically, Marten Reed.
I dunno. Claire Augustus has always seemed pretty culturally beige to me. (Yes, she's trans. What of it? That's not strange.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 03 Dec 2018, 20:24
Define "strange."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 03 Dec 2018, 20:40
Did a quick lookup for "reindeer" and "two segways at once".
Google has failed me.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 03 Dec 2018, 20:45
Apparently, they are swegways. Or hoverboards. Or self-balancing scooters.

Segways have handles.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 03 Dec 2018, 23:02
Careful Roko you might get knocked over by Emily in a moment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Dec 2018, 23:18
Today's strip reminds us of an important lesson: Some belief systems have a tendency to re-organise the universe around the believer. What most would perceive as a bug, most perceive as just another detail in the tapestry of their reality. What it doesn't and never does is disprove said belief system!

Meanwhile... Well, what is 'normal' anyway, Roko? We're all normal in our own eyes. I'm sure that Fairy Girl considers herself normal too. The only Northamptonite who has, to my knowledge, raised the 'weird and proud' flag is Emily and she isn't on any known bell curve anyway! Still, this does suggest that this is something Jeph is trying to emphasise with Roko: Yes, she has a kink but, that aside, you'd be surprised how average she is in most ways!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 03 Dec 2018, 23:23
And now we know what the nonprofit agency does. “Uncanine Valley Robotic Pet Adoption Agency”. Robo-dog rescue!
It didn't look to me as if that sign was for the place at which Roko had been interviewing; it looks like another office on the same floor, on the other side of the lift.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 04 Dec 2018, 00:50
Everyone in Northampton is a tad strange.  Except, ironically, Marten Reed.

hmmm, sounds about right from the writings of Lovecraft. Although I did expected 'a tad strange' to be less amusing and more frighting.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 04 Dec 2018, 01:06
Why is normality so important?

Anyway, you can consider somebody as "normal" only as long as you don't really know them. That's when you understand they are as strange and far from the "norm" than anyone else. Normality is only an appearance.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 04 Dec 2018, 06:28
Why is normality so important?

We want, even need, a baseline from which to measure the world, and this need emerges very early in our lives, probably about the time we realize there are other families besides our own, and that they don't all do everything the way we do.  By the time we're mature enough to process that fact (a point some people never do reach) it's so ingrained that we find it difficult to purge it from our language.

"They say you're different."

"I sure hope so!  If I wasn't different I'd be the same as all the rest of 'em."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Dec 2018, 06:30
IOW - individuality is difference.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: dutchrvl on 04 Dec 2018, 06:35
Why is normality so important?

Anyway, you can consider somebody as "normal" only as long as you don't really know them. That's when you understand they are as strange and far from the "norm" than anyone else. Normality is only an appearance.

I dunno, but who claims/claimed normality is important?
Besides being pretty much undefinable, it also seems extremely unimportant to me to be considered 'normal' (even though I probably am by pretty much everyone).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: OldGoat on 04 Dec 2018, 07:42
"Beepatrice."  Is Jeph telling us the honey-colored she-bot is a sweetie?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueFatima on 04 Dec 2018, 08:43
I'm totally feeling ya, Roko. I am part of a lifestyle choice that works really, really well for my family and I have about 3-4 very different hobbies (if you include my career choice). I currently have no friends who share my lifestyle choice who I consider healthy/balanced (to the point I am not spending time with others who share my lifestyle—beyond my family), and I've yet to meet any non "crazy" people who share my hobbies (to be fair, I'm not super active in clubs right now).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 04 Dec 2018, 10:13
nor·mal  /ˈnôrməl/  adjective

    1. adjective     conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. the usual, average, or typical state or condition.
    2. Technical     (of a line, ray, or other linear feature) intersecting a given line or surface at right angles.
    3. Medicine     (of a salt solution) containing the same salt concentration as the blood. dated•Chemistry (of a solution) containing one gram-equivalent of solute per liter.
    4. Geology     denoting a fault or faulting in which a relative downward movement occurred in the strata situated on the upper side of the fault plane.

So when it comes to normal in my version of the world as I know it, #1 applies to nearly everything I work with yet I personally am not part of that superset described as "normal".

As for strangeness, (S) as a property of personalities, expressed as a quantum number, for describing the decay of a personality in strong social interactions which occur in a short period of time.
The strangeness of a personality is defined as:      S = − ( n s − n s- )

I think I got that right or did I get that mixed up with something else again?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Dec 2018, 11:17
    3. Medicine     (of a salt solution) containing the same salt concentration as the blood. dated•Chemistry (of a solution) containing one gram-equivalent of solute per liter.

I hope the conflicting Medical and Chemical definitions don't come into contact...

The strangeness of a personality is defined as:      S = − ( n s − n s- )

I think of the opposite of strange as being ordinary.  I am content to be ordinary, even if not normal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Rincewind on 04 Dec 2018, 12:39
In quantum physics "strangeness" is used to describe some aspect of quarks, along with "charm".  It seems they ran out of more ...umm "normal" descriptions like spin, polarity, handedness, etc. quite a while ago, and they've been getting weirder and weirder ever since.  I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Dec 2018, 12:46
Oh, I know about quarks, don't you worry; though they were still only theoretical when I was doing the materials part of my degree...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 04 Dec 2018, 13:04
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Dec 2018, 14:32
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.

And suddenly you became my favourite poster whose first name I don't know!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 04 Dec 2018, 16:02
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.

And suddenly you became my favourite poster whose first name I don't know!
Stephen (stePH to friends). Encantado.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 04 Dec 2018, 16:15
The word "normal" has at least eight different precise definitions in mathematics, depending on which branch of math is involved. Basically, it means "we like objects that have this property".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 04 Dec 2018, 16:29
Perpendicular objects are pretty cool, I suppose.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 04 Dec 2018, 16:36
They make calculations a lot easier. Gram-Schmidt, anyone?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 04 Dec 2018, 17:28
Yes, Gram Schmidt is lovely. She gave me cookies when I was young.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: DSL on 04 Dec 2018, 18:20
"The only normal" in any given environment would be, for that environment, the least normal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 04 Dec 2018, 19:48
There's really no such thing as "normal" except in the most trivial of situations. The proper term is "cotangent bundle".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Mordhaus on 04 Dec 2018, 19:55
First you must answer the Riddle of Bread. Contemplate this on the Oven of Woe.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Pablo360 on 04 Dec 2018, 19:56
I think this is the beginning of a beautiful breadship.  Also, I still know absolutely nothing about the fairy girl and that's just the way I like it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Dec 2018, 23:10
I suspect that Elliott has promised Roko entry into Paradise and, understandably, she's grabbing at it with both hands and her teeth. Meanwhile, it seems to Elliott's fate to be associated with women who have strong feelings about which he is baffled or even ignorant!

I have a funny mental image of Elliott calling Roko 'my Padawan'.

That aside, if Jim does decide to hire Roko, I think that we can confidently anticipate several things:
All that is medium- to long-term, IMO. In the short-term, I'm expecting us to do a lot more Roko establishing strips. You see, I'm getting the feeling that Jeph may have decided to make Roko his new primary character and we're going to be following her path through life to some degree of a settled existence, much as we have with Marten and Faye. If I'm right about this, then Melon is going to be the Hannelore equivalent in some ways.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 05 Dec 2018, 00:56
I think taking your hobby/fetish and making it your job is a mistake.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Dec 2018, 01:00
It served me well throughout my career.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 05 Dec 2018, 01:13
And now I want bread. But it's just gone 5pm so the bakery in the shops across the road has probably closed. Plus I'd have to deal with CBD rush hour traffic to get to it.

... still contemplating going there anyway, just in case
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 05 Dec 2018, 07:22
And now I want bread. But it's just gone 5pm so the bakery in the shops across the road has probably closed. Plus I'd have to deal with CBD rush hour traffic to get to it.
There's a rush of people driving out to buy cannabidiol? Where do you live?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: JimC on 05 Dec 2018, 09:36
Comic’s up. Fairy girl is back!
Seems to have lost her wings... had that happened before?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Dec 2018, 09:53
It has not to my knowledge.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 05 Dec 2018, 09:57
They are at the cleaners since they are dry-clean only.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on 05 Dec 2018, 09:58
Does anyone else think it's inappropriate of Roko to ask Elliot to mentor her in bread? I feel like she'd be making him a participant in her fetish without his consent. And if she actually takes a job at the bakery, then extend that to everyone else who works there and all the customers who come in. Like, there's a difference in my mind between just coming in to purchase bread vs "Tell me everything about this bread while I secretly get off on it."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 05 Dec 2018, 10:11
Seems to have lost her wings... had that happened before?

Perhaps someone unrang a bell?

(OK, I admit that she's not an angel.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Dec 2018, 10:15
Worse and in addition to that, Elliott is bound to find out at some point which will put him in a position of non-consensual awkwardness.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 05 Dec 2018, 10:27
Does anyone else think it's inappropriate of Roko to ask Elliot to mentor her in bread? I feel like she'd be making him a participant in her fetish without his consent. And if she actually takes a job at the bakery, then extend that to everyone else who works there and all the customers who come in. Like, there's a difference in my mind between just coming in to purchase bread vs "Tell me everything about this bread while I secretly get off on it."

I'm usually one to jump to the defense of characters that get thrown under the bus in the WCDT but I actually agree with you here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 05 Dec 2018, 10:58
Might not be good to have such a distracting job, but if Roko loses an arm she can get it replaced.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 05 Dec 2018, 12:25
Does anyone else think it's inappropriate of Roko to ask Elliot to mentor her in bread? I feel like she'd be making him a participant in her fetish without his consent. And if she actually takes a job at the bakery, then extend that to everyone else who works there and all the customers who come in. Like, there's a difference in my mind between just coming in to purchase bread vs "Tell me everything about this bread while I secretly get off on it."

I'm usually one to jump to the defense of characters that get thrown under the bus in the WCDT but I actually agree with you here.

In that case, I'm happy to step up to the plate.

I do not think that he'd be participating in her fetish any more than someone who was asked to teach someone how to maintain their vibrator.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 05 Dec 2018, 12:41
Worse and in addition to that, Elliott is bound to find out at some point which will put him in a position of non-consensual awkwardness.
He already knows. Renee told him, the last time Roko was there.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on 05 Dec 2018, 13:24
I do not think that he'd be participating in her fetish any more than someone who was asked to teach someone how to maintain their vibrator.

To me, that's not the same thing. For one thing, if you're in the business of vibrator maintenance, you've signed up to be adjacent to people's sex lives in that capacity, whereas Elliot has not. For another, a vibrator is typically just a tool of sexual stimulation, not itself the object of a fetish. Most people wouldn't be getting sexual gratification from the explanation of how to maintain their vibrator, whereas Roko likely will get sexual gratification from learning the details of bread baking. She's asking Elliot to spend substantial one-on-one time providing her with what is essentially personalized pornography, potentially with the goal of working at the bakery and getting further sexual gratification from baking bread to serve to customers who also didn't sign up to feature in her floury sex fantasies. Maybe I'm oversensitive, but the idea makes me pretty uncomfortable.

I will say that I'd forgotten that Elliott knows about her fetish already. If he understands the full nature of what's happening here and is comfortable with it, and isn't just going along with it because he's a people pleaser, then Roko "apprenticing" herself to him would be fine in my book. Actually working at a bakery would still be pretty icky--unless it was one of those bakeries that specializes in humorous erotic designs, I guess?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Dec 2018, 17:59
The ethics of this are really interesting.

Should it matter to the customers whether she's In It For The Money, sexually turned on, or filled with pride of craftspersonship?

I think I could buy a pair of boots and not be squicked if I found out later that the bootmaker had a boot kink.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 05 Dec 2018, 18:16
The ethics of this are really interesting.

Should it matter to the customers whether she's In It For The Money, sexually turned on, or filled with pride of craftspersonship?

I think I could buy a pair of boots and not be squicked if I found out later that the bootmaker had a boot kink.

Especially if they mark down their merchandise because they get their jollies making the boots.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Pablo360 on 05 Dec 2018, 18:40
I find Bubbles relatable right now, and for once that's NOT a good thing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 05 Dec 2018, 18:46
And it appears that Bubbles is getting an abject lesson on how to insert her foot into her mouth...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 05 Dec 2018, 18:54
The fairy person likes bread the normal amount!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: War Sparrow on 05 Dec 2018, 19:36
Oh damn.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: DSL on 05 Dec 2018, 19:39
And here Bubbles gets a practical lesson in "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 05 Dec 2018, 21:06
And here Bubbles gets a practical lesson in "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
It doesn't mean you should, just because you can
It doesn't mean you should, just because you can
Like Abraham and Ishmael fighting over sand

King Crimson, "Facts of Life" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FBmHB-YoQw)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Gyrre on 05 Dec 2018, 21:08
Well, at least Bubbles is trying to rectify and apologize for her mistake.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Dec 2018, 21:16
I find Bubbles relatable right now, and for once that's NOT a good thing.

Did someone say welcome already?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 05 Dec 2018, 21:33
I do not think that he'd be participating in her fetish any more than someone who was asked to teach someone how to maintain their vibrator.
For one thing, if you're in the business of vibrator maintenance, you've signed up to be adjacent to people's sex lives in that capacity, whereas Elliot has not.

What does "adjacent to people's sex lives" even mean?

Does, say, baking a wedding cake for a couple about to be married make you "adjacent to their sex lives?" Apparently, some do. I disagree with them.

Quote
For another, a vibrator is typically just a tool of sexual stimulation, not itself the object of a fetish.

I suspected after I posted that someone would say that, even though it could well be the object of a fetish just the same as anything else would. Being an explicit sexual object doesn't prohibit it from being used as the object of some fetish. Regardless, substitute whichever mundane everyday object you like, if you prefer. It doesn't change my argument.
 
Anything anyone has ever manufactured could be a fetish for someone. There is no ethical issue.

I'm surprised no-one has brought up an ethical issue with Roko simply walking into the bakery and ordering loaves of bread without disclosing to the baker the purpose for which they are being purchased. Because the issue is the same.

I think I could buy a pair of boots and not be squicked if I found out later that the bootmaker had a boot kink.

If you are made squeamish by the thought that something you do in public might turn someone on, then walking out your front door could prove to be an insurmountable challenge.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Penquin47 on 05 Dec 2018, 22:03
There's a difference between purchasing goods to be used in whatever manner you deem appropriate (as long as it's not a well-known risk of being illegal, such as buying cough syrup to make meth) and taking a job to work with your fetish object around other people.  What you do in your own home is nobody's business but yours (again, as long as it's not illegal), but when you do things around other people, especially in a workplace, you need to be more careful.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 05 Dec 2018, 22:05
And here Bubbles gets a practical lesson in "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

It's one of the less endearing Faye traits to pick up and I wonder if she would've said the same if she was in Bubbles' place. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on 05 Dec 2018, 23:09
I'm surprised no-one has brought up an ethical issue with Roko simply walking into the bakery and ordering loaves of bread without disclosing to the baker the purpose for which they are being purchased. Because the issue is the same.

I addressed exactly that question in my original post. It's one thing to walk in, buy the bread, go home and get sexual gratification from it in private. It's a completely different thing to ask another person to give you lessons in a topic that you find sexually gratifying, or to, as Penquin47 put it, "take a job to work with your fetish object around other people." It's a huge increase in the extent to which she's involving other people in her sex life.

Honestly, wouldn't you feel just a little skeeved out if someone came into your workplace and started breathlessly asking you weirdly specific details about your profession while squirming in their chair? Because that's where Roko seems to be headed. She asked Elliot about his relationship with bread specifically in the context of "maybe I should work in a bakery so I can get off on my job all day." She asked to be his apprentice because his reply made it sound like working with bread would amplify the pleasure she gets from her fetish. This is 100% about her sex life and she's making that Elliot's problem when he never asked her to. It's pretty much exactly as inappropriate as a lingerie fetishist trying to get a job at Victoria's Secret for fetish reasons.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Dec 2018, 23:20
I'm not sure it's fair of Bubbles to effectively blame Faye here. From what I've seen, Bubbles is quite good at cutting sarcasm all on her own even before she and Faye became friends; she's just started using it a lot more because she and Faye seem to use it as a flirtation method!

Still, Bubbles has her own ways and her being reduced to a flustered and near-babbled apology when she realises that she's actually offended Roko is nicely in character.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Sorflakne on 05 Dec 2018, 23:57
Quote
I'm surprised no-one has brought up an ethical issue with Roko simply walking into the bakery and ordering loaves of bread without disclosing to the baker the purpose for which they are being purchased. Because the issue is the same.
What ethical issue is there?  She's [assumeably] paying the bakery for their services, and what she plans to do with the bread isn't going to harm others, so it's not the bakery's business to know what she intends to do with it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 06 Dec 2018, 01:04
Ah, poor Bubbles, alas, I know this so well...

Trying to joke like others do all the time, only to hit the one perfect opportunity where joking is not the right thing to do.

It must be wonderful to have a real and functional 'theory of mind'
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 06 Dec 2018, 01:41

What...
What's happened to Bubble's head?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Dec 2018, 01:54
Quote
I'm surprised no-one has brought up an ethical issue with Roko simply walking into the bakery and ordering loaves of bread without disclosing to the baker the purpose for which they are being purchased. Because the issue is the same.
What ethical issue is there?  She's [assumeably] paying the bakery for their services, and what she plans to do with the bread isn't going to harm others, so it's not the bakery's business to know what she intends to do with it.

There is none, that is what I am saying.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: MrNumbers on 06 Dec 2018, 04:24
I think that Bubbles was perfectly in the right to lay down the burn she got, based on the information she had access to - She hasn't interracted with Roko since Spookybot, really - but Roko also deserved and was entitled to the apology.

Remember, Roko's existential crisis came from what a shitty position she put Bubbles in. The fact that she's fixing that now doesn't change that's what Bubbles remembers her for, just because we know what Roko's been doing. Fourth wall.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Netherdan on 06 Dec 2018, 05:23
I think we're in for some Breadicorn... Uniloaf... Baguettecorn... Bumnicorn!

Anyways, what if her so called bread fetish is something completely mundane for humans like feeling pleasure for "pretend eating" or even smelling it like the tea thing? Just because she considers it a fetish, it doesn't necessarily need to be something weird, remember she's an AI and things humans consider normal like eating is not to them!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Annemoon on 06 Dec 2018, 05:57
I think that Bubbles was perfectly in the right to lay down the burn she got, based on the information she had access to - She hasn't interracted with Roko since Spookybot, really - but Roko also deserved and was entitled to the apology.

Remember, Roko's existential crisis came from what a shitty position she put Bubbles in. The fact that she's fixing that now doesn't change that's what Bubbles remembers her for, just because we know what Roko's been doing. Fourth wall.

I think 'entitlements' to throw burns at people is not really a thing - I think it's a thing where you sort of need 'permission' of some sorts.
Basically either have them do the same to you and always start with something that is obviously quite harmless - and take direction from there - don't start with something that most people will take personally.
Starting with a burn on the topic of 'you suck at your work' is dangerous territory with a lot of people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Dec 2018, 06:02
Anyways, what if her so called bread fetish is something completely mundane for humans like feeling pleasure for "pretend eating" or even smelling it like the tea thing?

There was a Patreon-only strip that explained her attraction to bread:

(click to show/hide)

So, yeah, not something that a vanilla guy like me would 'get' but hardly bizarre to the point of incomprehensibility!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 06 Dec 2018, 06:07
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.

Michael Moorcock performed with them, didn't he?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 06 Dec 2018, 06:09
Why is normality so important?

Anyway, you can consider somebody as "normal" only as long as you don't really know them. That's when you understand they are as strange and far from the "norm" than anyone else. Normality is only an appearance.

I dunno, but who claims/claimed normality is important?


I don't know, but many people speak about it...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 06 Dec 2018, 07:17
I don't think Bubbles trying to be more "funny" was wrong for any given value of wrong. But it does seem like she isn't aware of the inherent tier system of jokes and burns. Jokes where you can insult someone are best reserved for the closest friends or best friends, where they know you're joking or at least fire back something just as insulting.

As it is, Roko and Bubbles aren't really friends and more acquaintances and so, Bubbles in an attempt to be funnier, just comes off as rude from Roko's perspective.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on 06 Dec 2018, 07:30
Just want to reiterate that I was pretty explicit in saying that I don't have a problem with Roko purchasing bread, and in distinguishing that from the behavior I actually have a problem with.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 06 Dec 2018, 07:34
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.

Michael Moorcock performed with them, didn't he?
Not sure about live on stage, but he did co-write some tracks, and narrate them on a couple of albums.

I like to call Hawkwind "Britain's answer to the Grateful Dead, except they're actually psychedelic, and don't suck."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: artag on 06 Dec 2018, 08:05
What's with all the robo-emotion ?

We had Bubbles blushing about falling for Faye, then Beepatrice's embarrassment about human sex toys (which she herself comments on), now Roko getting upset about Bubbles' poorly-considered joke.

Aren't AIs capable of seeing past this sort of reaction ? Or are they deliberately crippled to make them more acceptable to humans ?

Sorry if it's an old question. It's just something I noticed a lot recently and joined up here to ask about.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Nigel on 06 Dec 2018, 08:15
And here Bubbles gets a practical lesson in "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
It doesn't mean you should, just because you can
It doesn't mean you should, just because you can
Like Abraham and Ishmael fighting over sand

King Crimson, "Facts of Life" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FBmHB-YoQw)

Just when I thought I had seen every KC video on the interwebs... I guess that I should have known better.
Thank you for pointing me further down the rabbit hole!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 06 Dec 2018, 08:17
What's with all the robo-emotion ?

We had Bubbles blushing about falling for Faye, then Beepatrice's embarrassment about human sex toys (which she herself comments on), now Roko getting upset about Bubbles' poorly-considered joke.

Aren't AIs capable of seeing past this sort of reaction ? Or are they deliberately crippled to make them more acceptable to humans ?

Sorry if it's an old question. It's just something I noticed a lot recently and joined up here to ask about.



First of all, why do you consider the showing of emotions to be crippling?

Secondly, why shouldn't AI display emotions? Why shouldn't AI become a little more human? After all, their main purpose is to interact with humanity, to learn and grow.

Besides which, it adds to the comedy of the situation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Dec 2018, 08:50
What's with all the robo-emotion ?

We had Bubbles blushing about falling for Faye, then Beepatrice's embarrassment about human sex toys (which she herself comments on), now Roko getting upset about Bubbles' poorly-considered joke.

Aren't AIs capable of seeing past this sort of reaction ? Or are they deliberately crippled to make them more acceptable to humans ?

Sorry if it's an old question. It's just something I noticed a lot recently and joined up here to ask about.

Welcome, new person!

It's a mystery why the AIs have the same emotions in the same proportions and intensity as the humans. There's a thread from I think a year or two ago where another curious new person started a great discussion about it.

This isn't it but it's on the same topic (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34011.msg1400168.html#msg1400168)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: traroth on 06 Dec 2018, 09:25
What's with all the robo-emotion ?

We had Bubbles blushing about falling for Faye, then Beepatrice's embarrassment about human sex toys (which she herself comments on), now Roko getting upset about Bubbles' poorly-considered joke.

Aren't AIs capable of seeing past this sort of reaction ? Or are they deliberately crippled to make them more acceptable to humans ?

Sorry if it's an old question. It's just something I noticed a lot recently and joined up here to ask about.

If you give AI emotions, those will sometimes be overwhelming. That's the thing with emotions. You seem to consider AI shouldn't have emotions, but then, they simply couldn't interact with humans the way they do in the comic, but would rather just be sophisticated computer system like we know them in the real world. Is giving AI emotions what you call "crippling"?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 06 Dec 2018, 09:55
I like that the AI in QC have emotions and can express them freely. But there comes a point where they can become too emotional and human-like, to the point where Jeph could have swapped out Bubbles and Roko for Faye and any other character, even a "meatbag" ex-cop. IMO AI should be more in control of their emotions than humans are, maybe able to even turn them off completely if necessary; this could be one of the differences (maybe advantages?) between them and us.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Castlerook on 06 Dec 2018, 10:10
I'd argue against turning off their emotions. It's unhealthy for people not to process complex emotions and it could be an even worse problem for an AI to do the same. Likewise, while AI might be physically superior to a Human, a cold emotionless rationale would likely stymie AI growth eventually.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrudd on 06 Dec 2018, 10:20
Does anyone else think it's inappropriate of Roko to ask Elliot to mentor her in bread? I feel like she'd be making him a participant in her fetish without his consent. And if she actually takes a job at the bakery, then extend that to everyone else who works there and all the customers who come in. Like, there's a difference in my mind between just coming in to purchase bread vs "Tell me everything about this bread while I secretly get off on it."

I am firmly on the other side of the fence on this issue with a caveat. That being "Don't do that at work". Then again when it comes to "interpersonal happy fun time", unless it is part of the job description then "Don't do that at work" pretty much applies to everyone.

Can she be excited in more ways that one about bread? - yes

Can she learn under a master to make bread and share the objects of her love with others? - yes
Can she share her passion for bread with others? - As long as she does not cross the line in sharing then yes

Heck - you could substitute any activity or object for bread and the results would be exactly the same.
Sportsball, DramaTV, Games, Movies, Comics, The secret life of slugs ......
(click to show/hide)

So a word to the wise moment here - Don't overshare and freak-out those not as excited about the subject as you are.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Gah - Okay, on the subject of AI and emotions a few points.

You can't turn them on or off, why expect any other intelligence to be able to?
Emotions are not just chemical based but also mind based as well and I don't see that great a difference on  the psychology.

I do agree that our esteemed creator may have drifted and lost track of some his characters unique characteristics of late.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: themacnut on 06 Dec 2018, 10:40
I don't think AI should be emotionless, far from it - having emotions helps them relate better to humans and vice-versa. I just think they should be in better control of their emotions, since they're generated differently than humans' are (no hormonal/chemical component, for one thing). Put it this way - imagine the damage a powerful AI like Station could do if it lost emotional control of itself. It would become a danger not only to the humans within it, but also those on the planet below.

Put it another way - even us humans have to learn some degree of emotional control to function in society. It follows that AI need to do the same, only they don't have the nearly two decades of time to learn that control like humans do during childhood and adolescence. So it follows that their emotional control would need to be at least partially "built-in" at the time of their installation in a body, maybe as some form of emotional control subroutines?

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: sitnspin on 06 Dec 2018, 11:09
AI in the QC verse are not "made", they are emergent entities, same as humans. They aren't coded by anyone.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Dec 2018, 11:27
Jeph has also I think said before that he has deliberately not landed on an explanation why the AIs are so much like humans in their design, so regardless of why we may think AIs have them in this universe and whether we think it is right, it certainly seems to me like the AIs have emotions because humans do.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Dec 2018, 13:22
If you think that emotions are some kind of liability, or are "crippling", then bear in mind that humans evolved to experience and to display emotions, and so it stands to reason that both the experience and the communication of emotions must have held some kind of evolutionary benefit.

It's therefore not much of a stretch to posit that emotions benefit AIs as well, particularly as they live among humans who also experience and display emotions.

It is interesting to consider and discuss what those benefits might be exactly, but that is the bottom line.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Dec 2018, 14:17
I like that the AI in QC have emotions and can express them freely. But there comes a point where they can become too emotional and human-like, to the point where Jeph could have swapped out Bubbles and Roko for Faye and any other character, even a "meatbag" ex-cop. IMO AI should be more in control of their emotions than humans are, maybe able to even turn them off completely if necessary; this could be one of the differences (maybe advantages?) between them and us.

What you're really suggesting there is that AIs ought to be psychopaths (https://www.medicaldaily.com/psychopaths-dont-lack-empathy-they-just-have-ability-turn-it-will-248028).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 06 Dec 2018, 15:21
AI in the QC verse are not "made", they are emergent entities, same as humans. They aren't coded by anyone.
And there seems to be a lot of randomness in the process. You can aim for Winslow, but get Pintsize.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BlueAmaranth on 06 Dec 2018, 15:27
Can she be excited in more ways that one about bread? - yes

That's the thing, though--I think it's apparent from the context that she's asking Elliot these questions specifically because she's excited about bread sexually. There's no indication that she has an interest in baking unrelated to the fetish thing. The conversation leading up to this was basically: "I have a bread fetish." "Have you thought about working at a bakery, since you have a bread fetish?" "I've thought about it, but it might ruin my fetish." And then she asks Elliot a question aimed at gauging whether or not working with bread every day actually would ruin her fetish.

So the issue I have isn't that she wants to be his bread apprentice despite happening to have a sexual interest in bread. It's that she wants to be his bread apprentice because she has a sexual interest in bread, and for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification from her proximity to and involvement in the bread-baking process.

If he's cool with that, then okay. But she ought to be clear with him about the nature of her end of the arrangement, and she also ought to make sure he's actually comfortable with that role in facilitating her sex life.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Case on 06 Dec 2018, 16:48
I do not think that he'd be participating in her fetish any more than someone who was asked to teach someone how to maintain their vibrator.

To me, that's not the same thing. For one thing, if you're in the business of vibrator maintenance, you've signed up to be adjacent to people's sex lives in that capacity, whereas Elliot has not.

"Vibrator maintenance professional" is an actual job description?

...
...
...

DIBS!  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Dec 2018, 18:14


It's one of the less endearing Faye traits to pick up and I wonder if she would've said the same if she was in Bubbles' place.
[/quote]

Well thats an easy question to answer, no she wouldn't have.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Dec 2018, 18:46
Hm
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 06 Dec 2018, 19:00
Strip is up!

Take one of the teas back and call it even.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Dec 2018, 19:03
Artag talked about "seeing past" an emotional reaction. It would make sense, a priori, if AIs had better readouts of their internal state and more awareness than we do. The most likely reason they don't is that they weren't deliberately designed.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Tova on 06 Dec 2018, 19:34
Finally, Bubbles has raised the real ethical issue of the current story.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Dec 2018, 23:31
Now, Roko, as a former police officer, you must be familiar with how everyday behaviour can turn into law in most people's eyes simply by the fact that everyone does it!

Seriously, though, this strip has the feel to me that something Jeph wrote in response to the number of people who weren't satisfied with how he handled Roko quitting the police force. He seems to have decided to handle this by trying to give some background. He is presenting what happened as basically the end result of misgivings she'd been having for a long time about other officers' conduct and how she was being perceived as being part of a police organisation. People were afraid of her and reflexively distrusted her (including  those who really didn't have any obvious reason to do so) and that didn't sit right with her. In essence, she had just had enough, irrespective of whether or not the worst cultural stereotypes about the police had any validity.

As for her concerns about her ineffectiveness? Outside of superhero comics, there is very little that one individual, no matter how talented, can do. This is why all the best positive social changes have been the results of large numbers working together to a common goal. Hopefully, Roko will find people to work with and systems to work in which she feels confident can make her part of a force for good.

Panel 3 was a nice touch. It seems that Bubbles isn't fully aware of her strength always. She's going to need time and practice to try to do a reassuring shoulder squeeze without buckling bones and structural spars!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Cornelius on 07 Dec 2018, 00:33
Artag talked about "seeing past" an emotional reaction. It would make sense, a priori, if AIs had better readouts of their internal state and more awareness than we do. The most likely reason they don't is that they weren't deliberately designed.

It wouldn't surprise me that that would be the case for some of the larger AI, like Station, or Spookybot, for whom their consciousness - on a human level - is just another subroutine. For others, I think it's also the physical limit of processing power that's playing a part. I believe it's been stated before that a lot of that goes to subconscious subroutines - just like ours does.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 07 Dec 2018, 00:34
I vaguely recall seeing and album cover with the title "Quark Strangeness and Charm"  maybe by Tangerine Dream?
Hawkwind.

Michael Moorcock performed with them, didn't he?
Not sure about live on stage, but he did co-write some tracks, and narrate them on a couple of albums.

I like to call Hawkwind "Britain's answer to the Grateful Dead, except they're actually psychedelic, and don't suck."

And they also the legend that was Lemmy playing bass with them (And even singing arguably their biggest hit 'Silver Machine')
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 07 Dec 2018, 00:58

I think we're maybe being a little harsh on our new friend asking about AI and emotions...?

It should be remembered (in fact I am surprised it hasn't been mentioned already) that one of the over-encompassing cultural examples we have of a human AI in popular fiction is Data from ST:TNG - an android who actively struggled to attain emotions, while seeing other AI receive them  (Lore-(his brother)  and Lal - (his 'child') )

Lore seemed to get worse when he inserted Data's emotion ship, and Lal was basically destroyed by them messing up her neural net (IIRC).

When Data himself DID receive emotions (First from Lore himself (TNG:Descent), and secondly in the movie ST:Generations) they caused him nothing but problems. (And in the movie First Contact -he is seen to turn it OF so that he is unhampered by it) in Insurrection he 'leaves his emotion chip behind' when going on a mission, and in Nemesis he is acting as if he has never had it. (He uses the line "I feel nothing" in that movie.)
Using him as an example - it's not too much of a stretch to see after all his yearning for them, Data getting emotions was not beneficial for him after all.

So, yeah - I totally understand why someone might see AIs as being *crippled* by emotions.
Hell, are we really insisting that emotions cannot BE crippling?


Secondly - Seriously... what's happening with characters necks? (Bubbles especially) - is it just me or have they gotten thinner and longer?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 07 Dec 2018, 06:53
I like to call Hawkwind "Britain's answer to the Grateful Dead, except they're actually psychedelic, and don't suck."

And they also the legend that was Lemmy playing bass with them (And even singing arguably their biggest hit 'Silver Machine')
Not a legend. A fact. Until he got busted trying to carry methamphetamine across the US/Canada border. Then they fired him, and he went on to found Motörhead (which was the title of a Hawkwind song that he wrote).

(Edit: this is the wrong album cover. )

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Case on 07 Dec 2018, 08:03
Artag talked about "seeing past" an emotional reaction. It would make sense, a priori, if AIs had better readouts of their internal state and more awareness than we do. The most likely reason they don't is that they weren't deliberately designed.

Posting this only to get the more knowledgeable people talking:

I dimly recall that consciousness wasn't really a survival strategy for naked apes with over-sized neocortices, either, but rather a by-product of our social & linguistic evolution?

And there are several psychiatric and neurological conditions that severely impact self-awareness and awareness of ones own emotional state, while the affected person remains, for all intents and purposes, broadly 'functional'?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Dec 2018, 08:06
Panel 3 was a nice touch. It seems that Bubbles isn't fully aware of her strength always. She's going to need time and practice to try to do a reassuring shoulder squeeze without buckling bones and structural spars!

Repairs to Faye would be painful and very expensive. I hope she works something out!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Dec 2018, 08:19
To be slightly blunt, if she is having sex with a human, she definitely must already have some idea of what kind of vigour to use when being affectionate with a meatbag.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: oeoek on 07 Dec 2018, 08:37
I think there is more to the Bubbles-chair. The 'Chair of deep insight'? The 'Chair of enlightenment'?
And of course it is also the 'Chair of unicorns'.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 07 Dec 2018, 08:43
To be slightly blunt, if she is having sex with a human, she definitely must already have some idea of what kind of vigour to use when being affectionate with a meatbag.

"Woman of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Dec 2018, 08:58
To be slightly blunt, if she is having sex with a human, she definitely must already have some idea of what kind of vigour to use when being affectionate with a meatbag.

It's all about concentration. Sometimes, stuff slips past.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: brasca on 07 Dec 2018, 10:24
To be slightly blunt, if she is having sex with a human, she definitely must already have some idea of what kind of vigour to use when being affectionate with a meatbag.

It's all about concentration. Sometimes, stuff slips past.

Or she’s less restrained with a fellow AI because she knows Roko won’t break.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 07 Dec 2018, 10:26
The less restrained with another AI theory was what I had assumed also. But needing self control and forgetting occasionally makes equal sense. Possibly both.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Theta9 on 07 Dec 2018, 11:04
To be slightly blunt, if she is having sex with a human, she definitely must already have some idea of what kind of vigour to use when being affectionate with a meatbag.

"Woman of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"?

(https://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Dec 2018, 20:59

... The conversation leading up to this was basically: "I have a bread fetish." "Have you thought about working at a bakery, since you have a bread fetish?" "I've thought about it, but it might ruin my fetish."


Is it really possible to ruin a fetish by making it part of your work life?
(asking for a friend)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: hakko504 on 07 Dec 2018, 22:16
"Vibrator maintenance professional" is an actual job description?

...
...
...

DIBS!  :-D
I'm not sure you thought this through properly...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: artag on 08 Dec 2018, 02:02
Artag talked about "seeing past" an emotional reaction. It would make sense, a priori, if AIs had better readouts of their internal state and more awareness than we do. The most likely reason they don't is that they weren't deliberately designed.

Yes, this explains my thought better. Crippled is probably too strong a word : I'm just seeing some inefficiencies that a more through analysis of the situation would have avoided, and that's what I'd expect of an AI.

I also see some comments here about Bubbles pushing Roko .. she says 'oof', like the breath's been pushed out of her :). But also, of course, a reasonable human-like reaction to indicate subtly to other humans 'that was a bit too much'.

As for Androids expressing emotion ... my thought was not Data, but Kryten's 'emotion chip' in Red Dwarf.
 

 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: Thrillho on 08 Dec 2018, 04:51

... The conversation leading up to this was basically: "I have a bread fetish." "Have you thought about working at a bakery, since you have a bread fetish?" "I've thought about it, but it might ruin my fetish."


Is it really possible to ruin a fetish by making it part of your work life?
(asking for a friend)

Yes.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 3886 - 3890 (3rd - 7th December 2018)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 10 Dec 2018, 03:49
I like to call Hawkwind "Britain's answer to the Grateful Dead, except they're actually psychedelic, and don't suck."

And they also the legend that was Lemmy playing bass with them (And even singing arguably their biggest hit 'Silver Machine')
Not a legend. A fact. Until he got busted trying to carry methamphetamine across the US/Canada border. Then they fired him, and he went on to found Motörhead (which was the title of a Hawkwind song that he wrote).

(Edit: this is the wrong album cover. )



Pssttt... it reads;
"The Legend that was Lemmy"

Not, the legend that lemmy played/sang  it... 

:)