Sticking her in the original Momo body would be amusing as hell.
"WHY does this body have TASERS?"
That's definitely a possibility unless it was already donated to help AIs without chassis. If not I'm sure Momo wouldn't mind since Roko should be able to do her charity work without much difficulty, but I'm not sure about baking. It would be like having the Pillsbury Doughboy around. Cute mascot, but I don't think she'd be able to do much else at the Secret Bakery.She would still be able to learn from training, and original flavour Momo was capable of helping to make tacos.
(Wait, 2048? Who releases a line of 3*683 androids?)Presumably Two-Zero-Four-Nine was made Special in her own unique way, not as a controller, but as a console for the Melon Network.
Question: Is she in the AI equivalent of a medically-induced coma? :-o
Question: Is she in the AI equivalent of a medically-induced coma? :-o
I'm assuming her body is destroyed (dead, I guess) and AIs have relatively physically robust memory cores (I vaguely remember the comic establishing something like that?) that house their personalities and memories. I wouldn't say it's the equivalent of a coma because human consciousness and yes, even brains are inseparably linked to our bodies. My understanding is that AI consciousness can work independently of a body, so Roko is probably hooked up to a network or something like that?
If I remember the technical aspects of AI in QC-verse wrong, I'll be happy to be corrected.
Sticking her in the original Momo body would be amusing as hell.
"WHY does this body have TASERS?"
Hmm, so one crushed AI who's still technically un-employed (I mean, hasn't started her job day one yet.) Costly repairs, no insurance... Roko/May arc where Roko has further development into the insight of the lives of the "criminals" she was punishing? Maybe even a "your one bad day away from being me" type of thing where she contemplates crime? The glorious return of Hanners who will swoop in as a patron and activist for the plight of the Robotic class?
The Robot Fight Club members have what are described as 'triple-reinforced AI drives (http://"https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3008")'. which may or may not be standard issue (if it was standard issue, wouldn't it just be 'AI drives are reinforced'?)
I said it before, I'll say it again:QuoteHmm, so one crushed AI who's still technically un-employed (I mean, hasn't started her job day one yet.) Costly repairs, no insurance... Roko/May arc where Roko has further development into the insight of the lives of the "criminals" she was punishing? Maybe even a "your one bad day away from being me" type of thing where she contemplates crime? The glorious return of Hanners who will swoop in as a patron and activist for the plight of the Robotic class?
Also.. i like that shade of yellow on Lemon
Possibly a technical glitch, the new comic is showing both as https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3901 and https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3906 (with a different number in the image itself), was there an original 3901 that just got overwritten by accident?
I noticed Lemon has mismatched socks, but it's a very eccentric model so I suppose she has to have some visible quirk.
Next week: Bubbles is taking a break from fixing Roko's body, having a relaxing spot of tea in her chair...
...And then Lemon's sister Durian walks in.
This is why you don't give jobs like nuclear reactor control unit to self-aware AIs :P.
If they come in batches that are powers of two, Lemon should have 2047 sisters. Plus herself makes an even 2048.
Very much unlike their minds, the bodies of QC synthetics seem to be manufactured assembly-line quality-controlled items.That's the key question, isn't it? Is her sensory integration a part of the particular chassis, or of the class of chassis?
Roko could presumably get a near-identical replacement.
Would that be good enough?
I don't think getting an exact replacement is in the cards, because she's no longer a police-bot.
I honestly don't like where this may be going for Roko...
That's definitely a possibility unless it was already donated to help AIs without chassis.
"You really don't want something designed primarily or exclusively to kill humans to have the ability to get bored."
Very much unlike their minds, the bodies of QC synthetics seem to be manufactured assembly-line quality-controlled items.
Roko could presumably get a near-identical replacement.
Would that be good enough?
Huh. So I'm kind of going to have to call Lemon out on this, from what i can remember when I had a therapist 10 years ago, turning the therapy around on yourself is pretty dang unprofessional.
New comic!
Looks like everything will eventually turn out all right for Roko, but now I'm terrified of depressed nuclear reactors.
You're right! She's not doing a very good job.
Lemon means well, but her oblique speech about bodily damage rather fell flat. I suspect she's still learning on the job.
Huh. So I'm kind of going to have to call Lemon out on this, from what i can remember when I had a therapist 10 years ago, turning the therapy around on yourself is pretty dang unprofessional.
You're right! She's not doing a very good job.
Very much unlike their minds, the bodies of QC synthetics seem to be manufactured assembly-line quality-controlled items.
Roko could presumably get a near-identical replacement.
Would that be good enough?
It depends to what level she'd fine-tuned her sensor settings and parts to her preferences; she could be in for months of monkeying around with her preferences trying to get the darn thing working right.
There is also the psychological problems that sci-fi occasionally directs towards cloning. It looks like her body but she knows it isn't her body. That could lead to disabling dysphoric issues.
Looks like everything will eventually turn out all right for Roko, but now I'm terrified of depressed nuclear reactors.
Depressed is safe. Manic on the other hand...
"Sarnt major, 681 Jones is in 12 platoon, isn't he? Just got word his parents were killed last night in a Zeppelin raid. Please break it to him gently, there's a good chap"
Later, on parade.
"COMPANY! ATTEN..wait for it you horrible little man..SHUN!
"12 Platoon! All those not orphaned take one step forwarNOT YOU JONES!"
Lemon means well, but her oblique speech about bodily damage rather fell flat.
Strip is up!
Well Roko still slips into her Boston accent in stressful situations so she still has that.
Even though she can get a chassis that may be superior to her previous one it would seem that she was attached to the previous one in more ways than one. It's interesting because while I can understand how a human would react if their body was crushed beyond recovery AIs have the luxury of downloading into a new chassis making the effectively immortal. Perhaps she's more sentimental than most AIs.
Strip is up!
Well Roko still slips into her Boston accent in stressful situations so she still has that.
Even though she can get a chassis that may be superior to her previous one it would seem that she was attached to the previous one in more ways than one. It's interesting because while I can understand how a human would react if their body was crushed beyond recovery AIs have the luxury of downloading into a new chassis making the effectively immortal. Perhaps she's more sentimental than most AIs.
The message I get from this is, Bubbles can lift/move several tons. I personally prefer to believe she did it hastily by hand instead of using any other assistance such as a crane or jack from the the shop.I'm sure she didn't go running in to grab a crane. The only question in my mind is whether or not she asked Crushbot's permission before she picked him up and threw him across the street to get at Roko's body. Bubbles has shown herself to be...single-minded...when it comes to the well-being of her friends.
Here's hoping she doesn't get an M$ model.Very much unlike their minds, the bodies of QC synthetics seem to be manufactured assembly-line quality-controlled items.
Roko could presumably get a near-identical replacement.
Would that be good enough?
It depends to what level she'd fine-tuned her sensor settings and parts to her preferences; she could be in for months of monkeying around with her preferences trying to get the darn thing working right.
There is also the psychological problems that sci-fi occasionally directs towards cloning. It looks like her body but she knows it isn't her body. That could lead to disabling dysphoric issues.
I'm also thinking that we should all be fitted with reinforcement for our processors and memory cores. Could someone please get on that STAT!
She makes bread fun!
I'm sure she didn't go running in to grab a crane. The only question in my mind is whether or not she asked Crushbot's permission before she picked him up and threw him across the street to get at Roko's body. Bubbles has shown herself to be...single-minded...when it comes to the well-being of her friends.
She makes bread fun!
Given the nature of her condition and bread fetish, she'd probably end up being more like "Talky Toaster" from Red Dwarf.
She makes bread fun!
Given the nature of her condition and bread fetish, she'd probably end up being more like "Talky Toaster" from Red Dwarf.
Jeph has explained that Roko's primary relationship with bread is tactile and olfactory. It wouldn't be the same in any other way.
The nearest equivalent would be if the sensory nerves were cut to your most sensitive spot. It just simply wouldn't have any effect if you were touched there beyond a possible vague 'sense memory'.
She makes bread fun!
Given the nature of her condition and bread fetish, she'd probably end up being more like "Talky Toaster" from Red Dwarf.
From what I'm gathering, Roko needs more than a replacement leg - more like a replacement everything. Except her brain/central processor of course.
Even so, the incident was a crushing blow to her mental health. The rest of the cast is going to have to make sure she doesn't slip into depression and fall apart.From what I'm gathering, Roko needs more than a replacement leg - more like a replacement everything. Except her brain/central processor of course.
Well by the sound of it the only reason her core survived was because of the extra reinforcement she got when she joined the police force. In the cliffhanger comic Crushbot had fallen on her entire body, you couldn't see anything other than a hand and her ponytail. So it seems Roko only very narrowly escaped death.
For comic #3908... (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3908)
1. Poor Roko, besides physical trauma, I am sure there is deep emotional trauma from a total body-chassis loss.
2. The real question is how much of a "very robust" insurance policy Crushbot has.
We know that even a "basic" humanoid chassis is significantly costly. Whether Roko's body-chassis had something of higher-grade due to being Law Enforcement (besides her processor & memory core reinforcement-protection), which means something even more costly, we do not know.
And knowing insurance companies, I doubt Roko will not get much in the way of "satisfactory" coverage for a new body-chassis. :(
Cue storyline regarding identity & body/gender fluidity.
Looks like everything will eventually turn out all right for Roko, but now I'm terrified of depressed nuclear reactors.
Depressed is safe. Manic on the other hand...
"Safe"? Um... what happens if a depressed nuclear reactor decides to commit suicide? Meltdown at best, nuclear explosion at worst? As Arthur Dent once said, this is obviously some strange usage of the word safe that I wasn’t previously aware of.
"Roko in an immobile sensor & communications pod that ends up being carried around by a main character"
I SO want this to happen - and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let it be May :evil:
If Marigold could afford Momo’s upgrade then I think Crushbot’s insurance can provide a suitable replacement.
I never said what sort of fun, nor who the fun would be for :angel:
Im pretty sure thinking about melon, sitting in a server room, singing the only song she knows, to comfort her best friend, is the closest I've come to crying over a webcomic for a while. To be fair ive spent a long time hospitalized so i guess i empathize.Melon is a strange egg, but a good egg.
By the way, its probably just a throwaway number Jeph chose because its funny, but twinkle twinkle little star is about 25 seconds long (at least, the first stanza is, which is the only one i have ever heard. Im assuming its the only one melon is singing.) 25 x 1257 = 31,425 seconds / 3600 = 8.7 straight hours. I hope melon brought her charger.
By the way, its probably just a throwaway number Jeph chose because its funny, but twinkle twinkle little star is about 25 seconds long (at least, the first stanza is, which is the only one i have ever heard.
Cue storyline regarding identity & body/gender fluidity.
Also makes me wonder about the legal ramifications of plainly-unstable heavy machinery like Crushbot
just wandering the streets - maybe he should have flashing warning lights? Or an escort vehicle with sign?
You know, like "WARNING - OVERSIZE LOAD" ? :-D
It also reinforces for me how young and innocent Melon seems. It's the sort of thing a young child would do for a beloved friend or relative who is in a coma or something. In some ways, it's as much to comfort herself as it is for Roko.
With respect to the chassis issues, just because a model is no longer in production does not mean that exact same model series cannot be found on the open market.
Also the insurance company always makes the final decision and if a replacement is cheaper than a repair then the cheaper solution it is.
With respect to the chassis issues, just because a model is no longer in production does not mean that exact same model series cannot be found on the open market.Well, you're looking at it from a purely "thing" point of view. However, it's actually very interesting if that would fully be the case.
Also the insurance company always makes the final decision and if a replacement is cheaper than a repair then the cheaper solution it is.
E.g. if your human 'body' is damaged by cause of another (especially one with good insurance) you would be eligible for both hospital cost (damages) but also for some sort of emotional compensation.
In my opinion - equal rights would place android bodies more within the latter point of view, especially considering the process of body integration.
It's interesting to see how Jeph is going to spin this.
With respect to the chassis issues, just because a model is no longer in production does not mean that exact same model series cannot be found on the open market.
Also the insurance company always makes the final decision and if a replacement is cheaper than a repair then the cheaper solution it is.
Well, you're looking at it from a purely "thing" point of view. However, it's actually very interesting if that would fully be the case.
E.g. if your human 'body' is damaged by cause of another (especially one with good insurance) you would be eligible for both hospital cost (damages) but also for some sort of emotional compensation.
In my opinion - equal rights would place android bodies more within the latter point of view, especially considering the process of body integration.
It's interesting to see how Jeph is going to spin this.
If the law permitted different approaches between the two and one approach was cheaper I would expect them to treat the two differently.
We may be able to see how this pans out though I doubt Jeph will even bother going anywhere near any of that.
Melon's wacky, but she's a good friend.The Sacred Fool, stupid (or in Melon's case zaney) to the point of holiness.
both for her sanity and that of anyone else within earshot?
Comic's up!
A running list of things that bring out Roko's boston accent:
Being drunk
Stressful situations
Receiving large sums of money
I'm very glad to see that Roku will likely come out of this relatively unscathed - at least physically. The mental trauma may take some time.'Survival of the Sickest'
Isn't anybody else surprised that after millions of years of evolution and survival of the fittest processes humans have become MORE susceptible to major damage from minor events? Look at gorillas or rhinos. You can wail on their bodies with a pipe wrench with relatively little effect. Why are we so goddanged 'delicate' I'm also thinking that we should all be fitted with reinforcement for our processors and memory cores. Could someone please get on that STAT!
This arc and its implications reminds me of a Kim Possible/The Bionic Woman crossover that I read a few years back. In it, the titular heroine is horrendously injured in a bomb explosion and the only way to avoid her being left a permanently institutionalised cripple, barely better than a vegetable, is radical prosthetic surgery, replacing all four limbs, most of her sensory organs and skin with synthetic replacements as well as heavily augmenting her brain to interface with this amount of electronic appliances."[A]round 250lbs"
From there, the story starts going into Ghost in the Shell territory. Being comfortably over 75% synthetic, Kim starts questioning if she's still really is Kim Possible anymore or a sophisticated android that's using some of the late Kim's biological parts to function. There is also the more physical issue that she now weights around 250lbs because of the amount of titanium, coltan and plutonium in her rebuilt body including its micro-fission power system. Not being able see, hear, smell or even feel in the same way as a human anymore doesn't help very much.
I mention this because I think it gives something of an insight into what Roko is likely to go through in the medium-term. No matter how alike her new chassis is to her original, Roko is still going to have this feeling of dislocation - A sense that she is, at the very least, heavily changed from who she was before and, at the worst, that she is not really 'Roko' anymore but a totally different being that just has a copy of a dead woman's memories.
Additionally, Lemon and Roko's interactions in the virtual environment remind me of the early phase of the story. During the reconstructive process, the scientists use the bionic interface circuitry to 'jack' into Kim's brain and interface directly with her consciousness to help her prepare for what was happening to her and to enable her to assist them in testing all the systems to ensure they were interfacing properly with the remainder of her biological central nervous system.
I've been thinking about Roko's avatar, particularly the white body-sock and the whole thing strikes me as a PG-13 version of 'Roko minus all external adornment'. I wonder if any philosophers out there might wonder if we're looking at her soul?
I just realize most AI must have doppelgangers, as chassis are not unique. So we could see others characters looking exactly like, say, Momo. Or Winslow. Or PT410X. Bubbles has probably a very unique chassis, though...
That aside, I'm wondering just how big the sensorium upgrade will be?
Now I want to see the fancy emblem...
I just realize most AI must have doppelgangers, as chassis are not unique. So we could see others characters looking exactly like, say, Momo. Or Winslow. Or PT410X. Bubbles has probably a very unique chassis, though...
I hope there is something about facial features that's customizable to an extent, or at least that factories that produce chassis introduce some minor random variation.
Then again, seeing as AI are individual, and it's not like human identical twins can't give a different impression when you meet them, maybe the way AI move their facial muscles makes them different enough?
That makes me wonder. Just how detailed is an artificial body's face? If it's simplified, that must necessarily limit emotional expression. If it's detailed, it'd be incredibly creepy to humans due to Uncanny Valley. I guess the best solution would be for facial features to be somewhat cartoonish in-universe (less threatening, less Uncanny Valleyish, still extremely expressive). But that might ALSO backfire in that AI would subconsciously be perceived as immature or not serious.
translation, Jeph likes Roko, but wanted to update her design. This way just has the benefit of letting her go into volunteering full time, and exploring AI psychology.
I just realize most AI must have doppelgangers, as chassis are not unique. So we could see others characters looking exactly like, say, Momo. Or Winslow. Or PT410X. Bubbles has probably a very unique chassis, though...
I hope there is something about facial features that's customizable to an extent, or at least that factories that produce chassis introduce some minor random variation.
Then again, seeing as AI are individual, and it's not like human identical twins can't give a different impression when you meet them, maybe the way AI move their facial muscles makes them different enough?
That makes me wonder. Just how detailed is an artificial body's face? If it's simplified, that must necessarily limit emotional expression. If it's detailed, it'd be incredibly creepy to humans due to Uncanny Valley. I guess the best solution would be for facial features to be somewhat cartoonish in-universe (less threatening, less Uncanny Valleyish, still extremely expressive). But that might ALSO backfire in that AI would subconsciously be perceived as immature or not serious.
Maybe they have crossed the Uncanny Valley. Maybe they are so human-like they are not creepy or disturbing anymore. Or maybe humans have adapted? Does the Uncanny Valley still make sense when speaking about really intelligent and sensitive beings?
I just realize most AI must have doppelgangers, as chassis are not unique. So we could see others characters looking exactly like, say, Momo. Or Winslow. Or PT410X. Bubbles has probably a very unique chassis, though...
I hope there is something about facial features that's customizable to an extent, or at least that factories that produce chassis introduce some minor random variation.
Then again, seeing as AI are individual, and it's not like human identical twins can't give a different impression when you meet them, maybe the way AI move their facial muscles makes them different enough?
That makes me wonder. Just how detailed is an artificial body's face? If it's simplified, that must necessarily limit emotional expression. If it's detailed, it'd be incredibly creepy to humans due to Uncanny Valley. I guess the best solution would be for facial features to be somewhat cartoonish in-universe (less threatening, less Uncanny Valleyish, still extremely expressive). But that might ALSO backfire in that AI would subconsciously be perceived as immature or not serious.
Maybe they have crossed the Uncanny Valley. Maybe they are so human-like they are not creepy or disturbing anymore. Or maybe humans have adapted? Does the Uncanny Valley still make sense when speaking about really intelligent and sensitive beings?
I've been thinking about this WAY too much, so a super long post incoming. Sorry :-D
I doubt humans have adapted that quickly. Uncanny Valley is a reaction that I think of as something visceral and largely subconscious. Something completely emotional and not based on worldview or values or anything like that.
I mean, we react differently to someone we *know* is human acting or looking a bit off. And it's not just a reaction of generally prejudiced people. Things looking "not quite right" are unnerving. We base our reactions on looks even when we know someone is intelligent and emotional (and the opposite - we humanize and anthropomorphise anything that's cute or visually non-threatening or otherwise good- and human-looking, even inanimate objects). Either it's human nature, or something so deeply ingrained in Western culture as to be effectively the same as human nature. If I put disturbing-looking make-up on that'd make me look extremely doll-like or give me a weird eye shape or skin tone or something like that, even people who know me would be a bit uncomfortable, I imagine. And they would know I'm still me, so it's not about the fact they'd suddenly treat me as a different person.
I mean, YMMV, but I think of Uncanny Valley as being a fairly normal, default human reaction.
As to them being super-realistic - I doubt it to the extent that the art style suggests they look markedly different from humans in the comic. It's not just the color of the skin. Plus, the colourful bodies would also likely be a conscious decision to avoid an Uncanny Valley-ish effect that flesh-coloured skins might provoke. If that choice was made, it stands to reason that the choice of facial structure was affected by the consideration as well.
Also, when trying to create an appealing image of a person, people in e.g. animation have always gone for exaggeration, and it's no accident that super-realistic drawings look kinda off. I think if popular art, comics and animation, including animation with incredible budgets, hasn't disposed of exaggeration and cartoonish features in a century (and counting drawings, in several millenia), then it's just a good practice that works. Plus, if AI bodies are made as products, the producer would certainly go for artistic and aesthetic value, at least in part, and there's a huge market for things looking cute and simplified (when you have a video game avatar in an online space, or a little person appearing on-screen to help you, is it usually a photorealistic rendition? Are mascots for places and events extremely realistic? Are fursuits at furry conventions? Usually not).
Thirdly, we've seen a variety of types of AI chassis and they often are extremely stylised (including chibi-fied) or have some features simplified (often to imply a lower price tag). Even if there are bodies for AI indistinguishable from those of humans, I doubt they are within a reasonable pricing range, based on the AI and the problems with their bodies we've witnessed in the comic - they may have easily removable skin, feet with no individual toes, arms and legs with obvious connectors and so on. So it's not unreasonable to think they also have relatively simple mechanics of muscle structure and so on, because otherwise there'd be a weird disjoint between a body that has features that are robot-like or almost mannequin-like coupled with a perfectly human-like face. And even that might be a little unsettling, so we're coming back to the problem with Uncanny Valley.
Plus, the negative reactions to AI that we've seen in some strips imply that people are used to being able that an AI is an AI at a glance. And we've never seen anyone doubting someone else being human, so it's either uncommon or unknown that such a possibility may occur (I mean, it's also possible that the comic just never went there, but that'd be speculation based on no in-comic evidence).
In aesthetics, the uncanny valley is a hypothesized relationship between the degree of an object's resemblance to a human being and the emotional response to such an object. The concept of the uncanny valley suggests humanoid objects which appear almost, but not exactly, like real human beings elicit uncanny, or strangely familiar, feelings of eeriness and revulsion in observers.[2] Valley denotes a dip in the human observer's affinity for the replica, a relation that otherwise increases with the replica's human likeness.[3]
I can see Roko being tempted to purchase her old chassis model off the black market.
Cue storyline regarding identity & body/gender fluidity.
Yes. Trans people should be able to identify with the psychological trauma Renko feels.
Some do. Some would be ok with trading what they have for a jet fighter chassis. It varies. See Momo's reaction to her upgrade.Cue storyline regarding identity & body/gender fluidity.
Yes. Trans people should be able to identify with the psychological trauma Renko feels.
Yes, I was wondering about that - Jeph's handling of this arc so far seems to support 'our' (=wcdt) speculations that AI appear to have kind of a "body-map" that tells them what should be where and how everything should 'feel' at a very deep-down, 'firmware' level.
If I recall your posts & citations correctly, we humans have something like such a map, too, the configuration process starts already in the womb, and mismatches between that internal map and the physical body is what we call gender-dysphoria?You do recall correctly. There is a variability of degree though. Some women who have radical mastectomies have severe psychological trauma from it. Some people who lose legs below the knee likewise. To others it's just a bloody inconvenience
It would be nice if Jeph used this arc to try to highlight this particular aspect of the *trans experience - just like many other SF-authors have used their stories about the future to give us tools/analogies to better understand our present.Concur. On the other hand, sometimes it's better to not look at the big picture, but to just care about individuals as individuals.
So anyway, where's this week's Overthinkers Anonymous meeting? Down the hall and to the left?
(there's a name for your sense of your place in space and your sense of your shape, but I don;t remember what it's called - it is categorized as a sense, like smell or hearing or whatever though)
I wonder if observing that one does not have the latest model, with the slightly upgraded sensorium, the $20K extra on the price tag, and the really nice emblem on the butt would be the AI equivalent of chas -- er, body-shaming.
I dunno. Big ol' anime eyes are a pretty strange look IRL. Have a look at Rosa Salazar in one of her recent roles. It's a film adaptation of the anime 'Battle Angel Alita.' The main character is drawn with eyes the size of grapefruit, and in the role Rosa's eyes are digitally altered to about the size of mandarin oranges. Juuuust on the edge of 'uncanny valley girl' territory.
Nobody ever remarked on her eye size in the anime itself; it was just art style. But, since the character's not entirely human, there's at least a justification for the arresting look to be translated into a live-action film.
(https://cdn.empireonline.com/jpg/80/0/0/1200/675/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/c/articles/5a2af10004fafc3605f56496/screenshot_381.jpg)
I think she gets my vote for 'uncanny valley girl,' or at least as close as we're likely to see in film for this year.
I thought for sure that the movie Elysium would have ended Cameron's Battle Angel project.Why? It’s not like Armageddon stopped Deep Impact’s production, or vice versa.