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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 13 Jan 2019, 08:20

Title: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jwhouk on 13 Jan 2019, 08:20
New week, new poll - and a new body for Roko!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jan 2019, 12:17
My guess is that the sensory net, although objectively only slightly improved, from a subjective experience is almost amazingly more acute. So, the first time Roko walks into The Secret Bakery, she faints or maybe just the smell of baking bread on Elliott is similarly intense to her now as holding a fresh-banked loaf was before the accident.

She's just going to have to acclimatise. Until then though, sensory overload white-outs may be an issue!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Jan 2019, 16:10
It's canon; some 'bots gots junk (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3098).  Roko's in for a wild ride getting used to this new...ah...configuration.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: mercykills on 13 Jan 2019, 19:43
.......

Panel 3 reeeeeealllly got to me on this one. It just made me think on how a certain race of people in my country(USA) thinks nothing of patting, touching, grabbing, stroking the hair of another certain race's(*cough* mine*cough*) hair completely without asking, warning....

and then look at US crazy when we tell them "no" or smack their hands away. ARRRGGGHHHH...inappropriate touching is inappropriate touching. ALWAYS.

*cracks neck and knuckles*

*exhale*....../siiiiiiiiiigh

Apologies. I know there's bigger things at play here than Faye should've asked first before touching Roko's new bod. Ignore me as I return to silently lurk and grumble in the background.

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 13 Jan 2019, 19:52
I don't think its unreasonable to say that Faye shouldn't have been patting Roko.

What she did do was highlight every fear and concern Roko had about gaining a new body. At a time when Roko would still be quite emotionally fragile.

So yes, Ms. Whitaker continues her streak of opening her mouth and inserting her foot.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jan 2019, 19:57
It wasn't as objectifying as Clinton checking out Momo's chassis but it was still a consent issue. Letting Roko finish her sentence would also have been in order.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 13 Jan 2019, 20:18
It wasn't as objectifying as Clinton checking out Momo's chassis but it was still a consent issue. Letting Roko finish her sentence would also have been in order.
This.  Roko had clearly not given consent, and was clearly taken aback by Faye's behavior.

What Faye did here is just all sorts of wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 13 Jan 2019, 20:55
Yup... Looks like it's time for Bubs to sit Faye down for a talk about consent in regards to AIs. Way past time really.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: hedgie on 13 Jan 2019, 20:56
Maybe Bubs should ask Momo to do it.  She has a way of disabusing people of the notion that they can just touch her.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 13 Jan 2019, 21:37
Welp, after last week's kerfuffle, I'm just going to say that Faye means well and leave everyone else to it.

There will probably be less controversy this time, though. Bubbles has reacted for us all.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Greymoon on 13 Jan 2019, 23:10
Well, Faye, as usual, has zero chill. Damn, woman, I can't wait till Bubs hits you with that clue-by-four.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jan 2019, 23:21
Now we do get into one of Faye's behavioural flaws, which is her issues with not personifying AIs' chassis. I think the problem is that, because she's learned so much about how they are constructed and work, she has difficulty seeing them as someone's body as opposed to a really, really sophisticated domestic appliance. As we see, this is a real problem if she's manhandling someone who is already having body image issues. I wonder if surgeons have the same problem IRL?

I do like the point Jeph makes in the footer text. This isn't malicious. Faye was genuinely trying to be helpful by being positive and upbeat. The problem is that she chose just the wrong tack and may have actually intensified Roko's problems.

That aside, I really want to know what Roko was going to say in panel 3. Probably 'I'm not really sure I like having human ears'. It's a bizarre thing to say on the face of it but it seems to fit how she's reacting right now.

Finally, seeing Melon and Lemon together is a nice moment. I can't help but imagine that the two of them are actually very similar in behaviour. Additionally, am I the only one that shuddered at the thought of 'playing' with a nuclear reactor control system, even an intelligent one?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: brasca on 14 Jan 2019, 00:31
I suppose Roko’s clothes not fitting is possible, but lacks the comedic potential of enhanced smelling.  She never struck me as a someone who cared much for her wardrobe so she probably wouldn’t have much to replace anyway.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TRenn on 14 Jan 2019, 00:39
Finally, seeing Melon and Lemon together is a nice moment. I can't help but imagine that the two of them are actually very similar in behaviour. Additionally, am I the only one that shuddered at the thought of 'playing' with a nuclear reactor control system, even an intelligent one?

Especially an intelligent one. :-o
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Jan 2019, 00:52
Not really; I imagine they're coming close to Station, and that they can just let the power plant run on an autonomous subsystem (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2133), so they can play and party without any real risk to anyone.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Drunken Old Man on 14 Jan 2019, 01:11
Maybe Bubs should ask Momo to do it.  She has a way of disabusing people of the notion that they can just touch her.
Since Momo's usually method of said disabusing is to administer a painful electric shock, I'm not sure that that's a very good....

.....

Never mind. >:)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 14 Jan 2019, 01:11
Ok, until now, I found Faye pretty likable, even if she was often really oblivious of other people's feelings and hurted them sometimes. But here, it really goes too far. You can't talk to a robot-lady, obviously considering she's a person, and then grope her like cattle. At that point, one could even consider she's putting here relation with Bubbles at risk.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: neurocase on 14 Jan 2019, 01:16
It's worth noting the footnote on today's comic is "She thinks she's helping"

My guess is that Faye is (VERY clumsily) attempting to do what one might do with a fellow human uncomfortable with a new look, and give enthusiastic praise and support of the change in an effort to instill confidence and make the person feel better. I've been told quite a few times in my life something along the lines of "[person] isn't really sure about how her haircut turned out and she feels kind of self-conscious about it, so be sure to tell her how good it looks"

Unfortunately, it's obviously a MUCH larger scale of things to be in Roko's situation, so Faye's approach is definitely blunt and cloddish. But then, when have her social graces been anything but?

EDIT: A day later and I only JUST noticed the formatting of this post was wonky.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Fhqwhgads on 14 Jan 2019, 01:35
.......

Panel 3 reeeeeealllly got to me on this one. It just made me think on how a certain race of people in my country(USA) thinks nothing of patting, touching, grabbing, stroking the hair of another certain race's(*cough* mine*cough*) hair completely without asking, warning....

and then look at US crazy when we tell them "no" or smack their hands away. ARRRGGGHHHH...inappropriate touching is inappropriate touching. ALWAYS.

*cracks neck and knuckles*

*exhale*....../siiiiiiiiiigh

Apologies. I know there's bigger things at play here than Faye should've asked first before touching Roko's new bod. Ignore me as I return to silently lurk and grumble in the background.

Oh. Man. WITNESS. I'm a white dude and my niece is mixed and oh man does she hate this. why would anybody think that's a good idea.

Fellow wonderbreads, protip: NEVER NEVER ask if you can touch their hair. You can't. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T JUST DO IT.

Just, just no
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Jan 2019, 01:50
It's what we call the 'my living Barbie Doll' behaviour over on the Dumbing of Age comments threads. Basically (and this is especially a problem if the petter is much older than the pettee), I think that the problem is that some part of the mind just thinks 'pretty baby doll; want to touch!' and there is just no consideration of the other person's agency. Usually, it's symptomatic of a culture and/or upbringing where the rights of the individual are considered to be less important than the whims of authority figures such as parents and other older people.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 14 Jan 2019, 02:06
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYE!

:facepalm:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Annemoon on 14 Jan 2019, 05:43

Oh. Man. WITNESS. I'm a white dude and my niece is mixed and oh man does she hate this. why would anybody think that's a good idea.

Fellow wonderbreads, protip: NEVER NEVER ask if you can touch their hair. You can't. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T JUST DO IT.


My personal hair touch impulse comes in with freshly trimmed millimetre length hair (sooo soft!)
But in my experience you *can* ask if
1. You are good friends with this person, and comfortable with general touching already
2. You ask with clear and accepted option of saying no.
3. You know this person has no specific history of suffering from hair touching
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: LeeC on 14 Jan 2019, 06:27
.......

Panel 3 reeeeeealllly got to me on this one. It just made me think on how a certain race of people in my country(USA) thinks nothing of patting, touching, grabbing, stroking the hair of another certain race's(*cough* mine*cough*) hair completely without asking, warning....

and then look at US crazy when we tell them "no" or smack their hands away. ARRRGGGHHHH...inappropriate touching is inappropriate touching. ALWAYS.

*cracks neck and knuckles*

*exhale*....../siiiiiiiiiigh

Apologies. I know there's bigger things at play here than Faye should've asked first before touching Roko's new bod. Ignore me as I return to silently lurk and grumble in the background.

Oh. Man. WITNESS. I'm a white dude and my niece is mixed and oh man does she hate this. why would anybody think that's a good idea.

Fellow wonderbreads, protip: NEVER NEVER ask if you can touch their hair. You can't. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T JUST DO IT.

Just, just no

I don't know why this is a thing. I mean maybe its because I grew up in a diverse area and so I wasn't exposed to this but I have always been taught you don't touch a person unless they invite you to. It was quite alien to me when I saw an episode of Family Guy where Cleveland moved in and they asked to pet his hair. Some years later I saw a youtube video about an interracial relationship where the girl whispers to the camera (the proxy boyfriend) that he can touch her hair but no one else in his family/friends can nor should they ask. I was sitting there watching this thinking "Is that a thing people really ask/do?"

I don't know. I just don't get it.  :psyduck:

_________________

On topic: Faye really rubs me wrong on this. It seemed similar to when she was tossing Momo or trying to take a peak up her skirt when she was in her chibi body. It feels more like Faye is looking upon Anthros like they are hardware and not a person. Which is weird because she does talk to Anthros like they are people and even worries a bit (I mean look at her relationship with Bubbles from start to now). I can see this disconnect causing some friction with her and Bubbs later, if not with some Anthro friends.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: sitnspin on 14 Jan 2019, 06:52
On topic: Faye really rubs me wrong on this. It seemed similar to when she was tossing Momo or trying to take a peak up her skirt when she was in her chibi body. It feels more like Faye is looking upon Anthros like they are hardware and not a person. Which is weird because she does talk to Anthros like they are people and even worries a bit (I mean look at her relationship with Bubbles from start to now). I can see this disconnect causing some friction with her and Bubbs later, if not with some Anthro friends.
In this instance I think she is really trying to be supportive and reassuring, she's just awkward and has no understanding of respectful social interaction, as per usual. Plus I think she's really nervous and emotionally upset by the situation and is way overcompensating. While she does have a long history of depersonalising AI people and this is similarly very poor behavior, in this case it's not coming from a mindset of disrespect.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: shanejayell on 14 Jan 2019, 06:57
Poor Roko.

Cut Faye a BIT of slack, too. She did kinda see Roko pancacked so her relief at that is understandable...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Lear on 14 Jan 2019, 07:13
Fellow wonderbreads, protip: NEVER NEVER ask if you can touch their hair. You can't. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T JUST DO IT.

Just, just no
But that's just generalisation, too. When I first met my black wife, she would not take her wig off, like, ever. She thought her natural hair was disgusting, and everyone would hate her if they saw it. At that point in time, I'm pretty sure she would have freaked out if someone touched her. (mostly because they took her wig off).
IIRC the transistion began when she watched a German video where a white blonde used curlers to get very finly curled hair. She just couldn't understand why anyone would do that to themself - she had such nice, straight hair, why ruin it? How could curly hair be considered beautiful?  :? It did not fit her worldview...
When she came to live with me in Austria, I told her she does not need a wig. Having people ask to touch it and admire it did a lot, as it helped her understand that, quite genuinly, her hair is beautiful and nobody hated it. People even told her they would like to have it. It's still a pain to treat it, but by now she only wears wigs as a fashion item, not to hide her hair. And she never complained about anyone wanting to touch her natural hair here.

So my take on it: Appearently young black girls get peer-pressured into thinking their natural, curly hair is ugly, and from there, they either hide it or use products on it. They are ashamed of their hair in it's natural state, and to me, that explains why they would not want anyone to touch it. I might be completely wrong - but as a guy with long hair who had people ask to touch my hair, I wouldn't know what's wrong with that. (Then again, "Your tits look amazing, can I touch them?" is surprisingly similar...)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Netherdan on 14 Jan 2019, 07:32
The touching without consent is an issue, sure, but there's a bigger issue here and that's everyone is constantly reminding her that she was really integrated to her body that got crushed and it's making her feel like an alien in her new body and generally making her acceptance of it worse with every new interaction of people comenting it.
Should people stop at the "I'm so glad you're okay" it could make her integration go faster than reminding her of said body crushing
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tyr on 14 Jan 2019, 08:50

<snip1>I don't know why this is a thing. I mean maybe its because I grew up in a diverse area and so I wasn't exposed to this but I have always been taught you don't touch a person unless they invite you to.</snip1>

<snip2> It feels more like Faye is looking upon Anthros like they are hardware and not a person. Which is weird because she does talk to Anthros like they are people and even worries a bit (I mean look at her relationship with Bubbles from start to now). I can see this disconnect causing some friction with her and Bubbs later, if not with some Anthro friends. <snip2>

Snip1 response: The problem is not strictly interracial and can absolutely come up with transplants from even just another city 30 minutes away. I had a friend who grew up in a city 30 minutes south of the town in which I live. The friend moved north for college, and stayed. I was attending a party at her place after graduation, and she came up behind me silently and started separating my hair for braiding with absolutely zero asking or conversation beforehand. I had grabbed her wrist and dropped to the floor about to throw her over my shoulder onto the ground out of reflex. I have since fallen out with her for reasons unrelated to this story.

Snip2: The problem here, in my opinion, is more Faye doesn't quite grasp 'bodily integration' the way it's being used here.  her primary AI interaction in her life has been PINTSIZE. He's chassis-swapped once with ZERO angst after a total parts failure. Momo and Winslow are secondary AI interactions in her life, and they ASKED for their chassis swaps, and considered them upgrades. Winslow's technically swapped three times!

Roko has been put into chassis with better stats on after a total parts failure, and her 'bodily integration' MUST mean that all those improvements are even BETTER because, being tightly integrated, Roko MUST be super aware of how much better she can feel everything, right?

On the other hand... Faye's a bright girl. She should have put this together after seeing Roko freaking faint from seeing her own detached foot.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: LeeC on 14 Jan 2019, 09:32

Snip1 response: The problem is not strictly interracial and can absolutely come up with transplants from even just another city 30 minutes away. I had a friend who grew up in a city 30 minutes south of the town in which I live. The friend moved north for college, and stayed. I was attending a party at her place after graduation, and she came up behind me silently and started separating my hair for braiding with absolutely zero asking or conversation beforehand. I had grabbed her wrist and dropped to the floor about to throw her over my shoulder onto the ground out of reflex. I have since fallen out with her for reasons unrelated to this story.
You see I still just don't get it. Why is someone just walking up to you and touching your hair. It just boggles my mind that someone would just do that. Its like seeing someone in a grocery store open a milk carton and drink it then put it back (At least The Dude" bought his). Who does that? :psyduck: I probably would have done something similar Tyr.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrudd on 14 Jan 2019, 10:23
Maybe it's just me but is it possible that everyone has been missing the obvious here?
Yes Faye snafu'ed on the not asking bit for sure but it may not have been her words that was the instigator of the panic.

When she was still in the white zone, she was stressed, and after the install she was still very anxious but appreciative.

Now here is my take in what may have  happened here.
She displayed some surprise on the emotional hug from Faye but the panic started with the close inspection of her well formed ear.

Remember that it was mentioned this new chassis has an upgraded sensory net and a bit more topological detailing. Nipples and possibly other details?
With more surface sensors that better reflect the sensor map of a human, she may be feeling and responding to things in whole new ways compared to what she was used to.

A close hug, a gentle touch of the ear may be more stimulating than what they were.

We need bagels STAT! ...... What? I'm hungry.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Roborat on 14 Jan 2019, 11:21
I am wondering about the display of plants behind them.  Are they also AI body models?  Do AIs want to be plants?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: cesium133 on 14 Jan 2019, 11:28
Sometimes an AI wants a cactus named Arthur.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jan 2019, 11:31
Now we do get into one of Faye's behavioural flaws, which is her issues with not personifying AIs' chassis. I think the problem is that, because she's learned so much about how they are constructed and work, she has difficulty seeing them as someone's body as opposed to a really, really sophisticated domestic appliance. As we see, this is a real problem if she's manhandling someone who is already having body image issues. I wonder if surgeons have the same problem IRL?

I do like the point Jeph makes in the footer text. This isn't malicious. Faye was genuinely trying to be helpful by being positive and upbeat. The problem is that she chose just the wrong tack and may have actually intensified Roko's problems.

That aside, I really want to know what Roko was going to say in panel 3. Probably 'I'm not really sure I like having human ears'. It's a bizarre thing to say on the face of it but it seems to fit how she's reacting right now.

Finally, seeing Melon and Lemon together is a nice moment. I can't help but imagine that the two of them are actually very similar in behaviour. Additionally, am I the only one that shuddered at the thought of 'playing' with a nuclear reactor control system, even an intelligent one?

I'd be fascinated to hear from medical people about this question. All I know is an anecdote from "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks". Her autopsy was going on routinely, taking out each part and weighing it and examining it, and then someone caught sight of her painted toenails and suddenly the perception changed from a goblet into two faces. They were faced with the emotional impact of dismembering a deceased human being.

If I'm wheeled in after a heart attack or a car crash, I _want_ to be treated like a piece of machinery until I wake up in the ICU. From then on, I'd want much more respectful interaction than Roko got from Faye.

It occurs to me that whether "May I touch your hair?" is acceptable depends on whether the owner of the hair knows for certain that the asker will obey a "No" instantly and without question. That is not something that can be taken for granted most places.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 14 Jan 2019, 11:39
I used to work summers at the city morgue. Good pay, decent hours, and I have a strong stomach for what others might consider morbid topics. My job was, functionally, a receptionist. I'd receive the incoming from the city / coroner / etc, confirm data on file, label the gurney, put it in storage, move on to the next. Never really phased me.

I remember the day I quit, vividly.
(click to show/hide)
After an hour or so I managed to make it back in and formally quit. Boss was very chill, said it happened to most eventually. Paid me for the rest of the week.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Jan 2019, 12:07
I used to work summers at the city morgue. Good pay, decent hours, and I have a strong stomach for what others might consider morbid topics. My job was, functionally, a receptionist. I'd receive the incoming from the city / coroner / etc, confirm data on file, label the gurney, put it in storage, move on to the next. Never really phased me.

I remember the day I quit, vividly.
(click to show/hide)
After an hour or so I managed to make it back in and formally quit. Boss was very chill, said it happened to most eventually. Paid me for the rest of the week.
I hear ya.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrillho on 14 Jan 2019, 13:52
The touching without consent is an issue, sure, but there's a bigger issue here and that's everyone is constantly reminding her that she was really integrated to her body that got crushed and it's making her feel like an alien in her new body and generally making her acceptance of it worse with every new interaction of people comenting it.
Should people stop at the "I'm so glad you're okay" it could make her integration go faster than reminding her of said body crushing

You blew my fucking mind a little bit here and I feel like all the trans regulars on the forum are going to turn and looked at me disappointedly.


Snip1 response: The problem is not strictly interracial and can absolutely come up with transplants from even just another city 30 minutes away. I had a friend who grew up in a city 30 minutes south of the town in which I live. The friend moved north for college, and stayed. I was attending a party at her place after graduation, and she came up behind me silently and started separating my hair for braiding with absolutely zero asking or conversation beforehand. I had grabbed her wrist and dropped to the floor about to throw her over my shoulder onto the ground out of reflex. I have since fallen out with her for reasons unrelated to this story.
You see I still just don't get it. Why is someone just walking up to you and touching your hair. It just boggles my mind that someone would just do that. Its like seeing someone in a grocery store open a milk carton and drink it then put it back (At least The Dude" bought his). Who does that? :psyduck: I probably would have done something similar Tyr.

Not wanting to 'not all men' this post, but it's not a unique black experience either. I've only got a couple of tattoos, but more tattooed people I know talk about people just touching their tattoos or grabbing their limbs to look closer. And then there's just, you know, being a woman.

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: LeeC on 14 Jan 2019, 14:02
... people I know talk about people just touching their tattoos or grabbing their limbs to look closer...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/wIxBzHWegpOUM/giphy.gif)

Just...WHY!?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Welu on 14 Jan 2019, 15:08
Yeah, this strip hit a bit hard for me. I got my first mostly visible tattoo almost ten years ago and have got more since and strangers have grabbed my arms more times than I can remember. This happens to me mainly at work in a shop and it can be dodgy telling customers to not touch me, because they think I'm being rude and that can get me in trouble. One man was pissed at me for telling him it's inappropriate to grab people and pull up their sleeves. He said he wanted to see how high up my tattoo went.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 14 Jan 2019, 17:10
Have I mentioned what a great job Jeph has been doing with the facial expressions lately?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Netherdan on 14 Jan 2019, 17:55
The touching without consent is an issue, sure, but there's a bigger issue here and that's everyone is constantly reminding her that she was really integrated to her body that got crushed and it's making her feel like an alien in her new body and generally making her acceptance of it worse with every new interaction of people comenting it.
Should people stop at the "I'm so glad you're okay" it could make her integration go faster than reminding her of said body crushing

You blew my fucking mind a little bit here and I feel like all the trans regulars on the forum are going to turn and looked at me disappointedly.

They could even go a bit further and compliment with a "you look awesome" instead of a "your new body looks awesome", but let's hope Bubbles shove that knowledge into Faye and anyone else ignorant to Roko's feelings at the moment. I really want to see her reaction to someone acknowledging that this is she and now just "her new body"
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jan 2019, 18:14
How is grabbing somebody anything other than assault? Anyone does that to me, I'll be in fight or flight mode on my next heartbeat.

I've been impressed with how Jeph does facial expressions for many years.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 14 Jan 2019, 18:25
The two main points here is that Faye inappropriately invaded Roko's personal space and at the same time highlighted (and possibly reinforced) Roko's fears and concerns about integrating into a new body.

Faye, of all people, should be the one who wouldn't start pawing at someone without asking. After all, her usual response was to punch the offender in the face. So it just seems...wrong...that she would be the one doing it to someone else.

Likewise, as someone who has woken up in hospital on two occasions (her car crash after her father's death and her alcohol poisoning incident), she should be aware of how fragile someone would be after that kind of accident. And I don't mean physically, I mean mentally and emotionally. And from the look of it, she's run roughshod over Roko's emotional state.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 14 Jan 2019, 20:46
Honestly, Faye is getting off easy. I’d expect a more in-detail lecture from Bubs.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 14 Jan 2019, 20:48
That'll happen later. Right now there are too many witnesses.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Gyrre on 14 Jan 2019, 21:16
I wonder iif the increased hearing sensitivity could be causing Roko's general discomfort. Now having an antihelix, antihelix fold, antitragus, tragus, external auditory meatus, fossa, and (presumably) concha would 100% change the amount of and sound of background  noise.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Jan 2019, 21:22
Honestly, Faye is getting off easy. I’d expect a more in-detail lecture from Bubs.
It's only Monday.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 14 Jan 2019, 21:42
Given that Bubbles has clearly now spoken to Faye, and Faye has realised she stuffed up, I can't begin to imagine why we would see another lecture from Bubbles on the same incident. What would the point be exactly?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Cornelius on 14 Jan 2019, 22:44
Faye, of all people, should be the one who wouldn't start pawing at someone without asking. After all, her usual response was to punch the offender in the face. So it just seems...wrong...that she would be the one doing it to someone else.

Not really, though. In my experience the people who feel free to touch anyone, seldom bear being touched themselves.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: brasca on 14 Jan 2019, 23:26
Must be tough being the only adult in the room Bubbles.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 14 Jan 2019, 23:28
The more I see Ms Random Event Generator (Melon), the more I think Jeph has found his new random comedy character to replace Pintesize. That said, there is something deeply cute about her genuinely nice personality combined with her total disconnect from observational reality.

I'm wondering if Bubbles gave Faye a lecture 'off-screen', based on her reaction on panel 1. That said, panel 3 does suggest to me that she has some deep-rooted and occasionally-offensive assumptions about synthetics (basically 'computers that look like people') that aren't borne out by reality. Even her relationship with Bubbles hasn't rid her of them. I wonder if she's ever said to Bubbles 'but you're different' without a hint of irony?

Must be tough being the only adult in the room Bubbles.

I really thought that she would have gotten used to it by now!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: oeoek on 15 Jan 2019, 00:29
I am wondering about the display of plants behind them.  Are they also AI body models?  Do AIs want to be plants?
Sometimes an AI wants a cactus named Arthur.

I know of a Scirisch cactus named Pedro (https://girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-chaser-331). In my head, he must be one of the experiments that led to the Melon/Lemon line of AI's...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 15 Jan 2019, 00:55
Implementing an algorithm to let Melon be forgetful was very complicated...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Jan 2019, 01:22
I wouldn't have thought so; you just tell the system to store data at a random address every random number of access requests and don't update the index table! The real question is: Why on Earth would anyone do that?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: St.Clair on 15 Jan 2019, 01:32
I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 15 Jan 2019, 01:42
Forgetting stuff is a genuine AI challenge. It's useful to forget stuff to make room either for more stuff or for better stuff.

Arbitrarily-selected googled article on the topic:

We all need to forget, even robots (https://theconversation.com/we-all-need-to-forget-even-robots-81387)

Forgetting where you live is a bit weird, though. Stress obviously interferes with Melon's ability to retrieve even frequently accessed data.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 15 Jan 2019, 02:20
I wouldn't have thought so; you just tell the system to store data at a random address every random number of access requests and don't update the index table! The real question is: Why on Earth would anyone do that?

Storing data at a random adress isn't of any use. Just erase the data with the same effect. But that's not how forgetfulness works. It's not random.

Kohonen neural networks (also called self-organizing maps) store data sorted following their importance. Non important data tend to fade away. But what is considered important? That's where Melon is "different", I would say...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 15 Jan 2019, 03:03
MELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONN!!!

:facepalm:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 15 Jan 2019, 03:22
I do hope facepalms come in threes, or I shall feel let down.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 15 Jan 2019, 03:53
I do hope facepalms come in threes, or I shall feel let down.

Maybe the lack of a third facepalm... will BE the third facepalm!!!

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 15 Jan 2019, 03:57
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a5/a570acb65dfc709e37ce6a89b5065550f06af4c06c911e74057ade4b12cd5d06.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Netherdan on 15 Jan 2019, 03:59
Given that Bubbles has clearly now spoken to Faye, and Faye has realised she stuffed up, I can't begin to imagine why we would see another lecture from Bubbles on the same incident. What would the point be exactly?

Oh but "YOU ARE A COMPUTER" clearly indicate that it wasn't enough

Implenting an algorithm to let Melon be forgetful was very complicated...

They implemented destructive behavior like letting insects crawl on her insides for voyeur perverts for a living and smelling/drinking caustic chemicals to chaotically fire her sensors.
Forgetful algorithm is unnecessary at this point
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Storel on 15 Jan 2019, 09:54
I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 15 Jan 2019, 10:02
I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.

... said the human right before its creation plonked interface-needles into its body & wiped their organic brains.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 15 Jan 2019, 11:47
Oh but "YOU ARE A COMPUTER" clearly indicate that it wasn't enough
...
They implemented destructive behavior like letting insects crawl on her insides for voyeur perverts for a living and smelling/drinking caustic chemicals to chaotically fire her sensors.

You chastise Faye for saying "you are a computer" then talk about Melon as if she is a computer in the very same post.

No-one implemented her behaviour. There's no drink_caustic_chemicals() function.

Maybe we need an in-comic lecture about that. From Momo.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Netherdan on 15 Jan 2019, 13:12
You chastise Faye for saying "you are a computer" then talk about Melon as if she is a computer in the very same post.

No-one implemented her behaviour. There's no drink_caustic_chemicals() function.

Maybe we need an in-comic lecture about that. From Momo.

Oh geez, my bad. I just Fayed!
Yes, Momo lecture, please. Better be electrocuted than have Bubbes disappointed at me!
(Although she also knows some soul breaking psychology she's not even close to Bubs)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 15 Jan 2019, 13:51
Am I the only person around who finds Melon/Lemon/Durian/jackfruit/Pinesol/etc. irritating? I gather that their unreliability is a running joke, but it was never too compelling to me to begin with, and I fell that it's gone beyond old.

Let's be clear: it's Jeph's cartoon, he controls it, and he should. I'm making a judgement, not a demand.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 15 Jan 2019, 14:02
I know I've seen more than one person make that complaint.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrillho on 15 Jan 2019, 14:29
Yeah I'm also not a fan of Melon honestly, but they rarely interfere with actual plot.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 15 Jan 2019, 14:34
Melon/Lemon underline the randomness in the still not well understood process of AI creation. However it appears that a cohort of 2048 AIs can be notorious for their wackiness.

So why wasn't Winslow mass produced, as he was clearly intended as the prototype for a consumer product? My head canon is that the degree of uniformity needed for such has not been achieved. 'Reliably goofy' is not the kind of standard you want.

----

Looks like Dark Matter is still a mystery in Jeph-world. If my life's purpose had been a failure, I'd be depressed too.

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 15 Jan 2019, 14:45
On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001)

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Netherdan on 15 Jan 2019, 17:56
On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001)

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 15 Jan 2019, 18:11
On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001)

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around.

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Shremedy on 15 Jan 2019, 18:41
You are all missing the fact that the scariest words in any human language have been uttered:

"MELON TO THE RESCUE!"

I don't know about you, but I for one am glad her memory indexing glitched.  The form of her intended intervention scarcely bears thinking about. 

Also, I'm sure the actual knowledge of where she lives is in her robo brain, it's just that her brain doesn't know where it put that tidbit at this exact instant.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Baleanopter on 15 Jan 2019, 19:00
Am I the only person around who finds Melon/Lemon/Durian/jackfruit/Pinesol/etc. irritating? I gather that their unreliability is a running joke, but it was never too compelling to me to begin with, and I fell that it's gone beyond old.

Let's be clear: it's Jeph's cartoon, he controls it, and he should. I'm making a judgement, not a demand.
Slapstick has its limits in a comic that is usually a bit "smarter" than that, I'll agree. Of course, I am also a fan of whacky slapstick.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: shanejayell on 15 Jan 2019, 20:04
So they run to Taiwan, meet up with Hanners? ;)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: pendrake on 15 Jan 2019, 20:09
For comic #3918... (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3918)

What is a true friend...?

A true friend is there for you, even if they do not know "Why" they are there, just so long as they ARE there.

A true friend is willing to go the distance for &/or with you, even as far as Taiwan.  :wink:

A true friend is someone who is there to make you laugh, when you are low; especially when you are at a low.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 15 Jan 2019, 20:28
It looks like a bit of Melon silliness is just what Roko needs for the time being. Full acceptance of what's happened may take a little longer, though.

All the posters who pointed out that last week's initial acceptance of a new chassis was not the end of the matter have been vindicated.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Gyrre on 15 Jan 2019, 20:59
Idiot hair  well earned
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: zisraelsen on 15 Jan 2019, 21:40
In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.
I really like this strip. It reminds me of the one where  Emily shares some candor with clinton.   (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2999) a recurring message in QC seems to be that eccentricity doesn't preclude kindness or intelligence or any other trait, really.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Penquin47 on 15 Jan 2019, 22:55
Melon can get irritating, but this, right here?  I'm glad she's in the comic.  This was exactly what Roko needed, some normality in the form of a very strange friend doing something strange.  Doesn't solve her problems with the discomfort of a new body, but it helps her remember that there's way more to her life than that.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: St.Clair on 15 Jan 2019, 23:10
I've mentioned before, I think, the strange sense of ... let's go with "pride" that I had watching the third Matrix movie, where the Voice of the Machines displays such advanced and outright illogical behaviors as angry denial (raging at Neo that they don't need his help, or anyone's).  A machine capable of lying to itself (and others), for no good reason, just ego.  Something that we humans had a hand (at least near the start) in creating, that's come so far from those simple, deterministic beginnings that it's just as complicated and sometimes fucked up as we are.  It's amazing - like watching one's offspring perform some feat of physical or mental achievement.

You know, I never thought about it that way before, but you're absolutely right, that is amazing progress in AI.

... said the human right before its creation plonked interface-needles into its body & wiped their organic brains.

As another character of mine once said, regarding the new-BSG Cylons:
"We made them just as smart as us, and almost* as vicious.  And then we were so surprised when they turned on us."

* important qualifier there, IMO, since humans set such a high bar in that area.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 15 Jan 2019, 23:20
I think that you could summarise today's strip as 'Melon is unintentionally sweet and funny'. I think that Roko really did need this reminder that, as screwed up her life is getting, at least all the things around her are still pretty much as they've always been; especially Melon.

On a different topic, this Chekhov's Gun finally went off: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1001)

I know it's a little late to the party, but I've been browsing through old strips and this one came around./quote]

Lemon counsels nuclear reactors, not weapons. I bet she couldn't handle nuclear weapons, imagine living your whole life knowing your only purpose is to satisfy the whim of some dumb politician and eventually trigger WW3 and the end of the world as we know it

I suspect that intelligent weapons are generally a bad idea. As the 1980s Zoids comic in the UK pointed out, the only way to stop an AI-controlled war machine from going loopy is to give it the personality of a homicidal psychotic and that probably doesn't make things any better.

Or, of course, you can do what the US military did with Bubbles and put her with people from the start so that she develops bonds with others and thus has something to fight for, something to live for and, if necessary, something to die for.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 16 Jan 2019, 00:14
Would you like a nice game of chess?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: ZoeB on 16 Jan 2019, 00:43
I suspect that intelligent weapons are generally a bad idea.

Depends on the degree. The one I developed using genetic algorithms over 20 years ago had about the same smarts as a cockroach or spiny lobster.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 16 Jan 2019, 01:04
In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.
I really like this strip. It reminds me of the one where  Emily shares some candor with clinton.   (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2999) a recurring message in QC seems to be that eccentricity doesn't preclude kindness or intelligence or any other trait, really.
Again, she's "stupid to the point of holiness," truly a sacred fool (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/sermonsfromthemound/2016/05/the-sacred-fool/).
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 16 Jan 2019, 01:04
Wait, can Melon move the strand of rebelous hair on the top of her head?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 16 Jan 2019, 02:46
Wait, can Melon move the strand of rebelous hair on the top of her head?

Only when it's funny.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: pwhodges on 16 Jan 2019, 03:00
the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge (http://animanga.wikia.com/wiki/Ahoge)* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TinPenguin on 16 Jan 2019, 03:10
In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.

In my experience, surrealism is very often the most effective antidote for someone struggling with an overdose of reality.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrillho on 16 Jan 2019, 05:01
In which Melon, seemingly out of left field, is the Best Possible Friend.

In my experience, surrealism is very often the most effective antidote for someone struggling with an overdose of reality.

I would actually co-sign this.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 16 Jan 2019, 05:40
MELLLLLLOOOOOOoooooohnghnghng:SNERK!:

:-P
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 16 Jan 2019, 06:47
the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge (http://animanga.wikia.com/wiki/Ahoge)* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: DSL on 16 Jan 2019, 07:30
the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge (http://animanga.wikia.com/wiki/Ahoge)* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Theta9 on 16 Jan 2019, 07:43
I too thought of Bomb #20 from Dark Star.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: neurocase on 16 Jan 2019, 09:14
A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.

Time was, such emotion could be expressed with an exclamation mark above a character's head, but presumably that got discontinued when all it led to was people making Metal Gear Solid references.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 16 Jan 2019, 09:19
the strand of rebellious hair on the top of her head?

It's called an ahoge (http://animanga.wikia.com/wiki/Ahoge)* - and like any hair, it waves around as she moves.

* Originally a hairdresser's term for hair or a cowlick which wouldn't stay where it's put.

In the 4th panel, it seems to tense...
A cartoon convention of long standing: To express sudden emotion, such as shock, surprise or sudden realization, hair will stand on end for one panel. The ahoge seems to be particularly useful in this regard.

If there is a hat, it is likely to levitate.

I prefer my version. It makes me smile... ;-)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 16 Jan 2019, 16:16
Speaking of hairdressing, don't forget to trim your quotes.  :claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrudd on 16 Jan 2019, 19:58
That makes me think of cool ranch on a mixed salad ....  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 16 Jan 2019, 20:06
Yeah, the tune of Enter Sandman can make Twinkle Twinkle Little Star creepy, but not Dead Space levels of creepy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRXQsQKGqIU)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: shanejayell on 16 Jan 2019, 20:07
NO SINGING MELON.

Fun trivia: In situations where criminals have boarded themselves up inside buildings, Melon was often invited by police to sing for them. In 99% of cases, criminals surrendered peacefully just to make her stop.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 16 Jan 2019, 20:09
Fun trivia: In situations where criminals have boarded themselves up inside buildings, Melon was often invited by police to sing for them. In 99% of cases, criminals surrendered peacefully just to make her stop.

Fun fact: the police were able to do that once, before Melon was banned for singing in public, as it is considered a cruel and unusual form of punishment.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 16 Jan 2019, 22:10
Oh dear... this calls for an appropriate response.

CAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSE!!!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 16 Jan 2019, 23:37
I honestly think that Melon is probably the sweetest character in Questionable Content right now. There's a combination of childlike innocence combined with her disconnect from observational reality and clear difficulty actually learning things that should be annoying or even pitiful but all of them go together to create a being with the most endearing positivity about her.

Regarding Roko: I'm no expert but I suspect at least part of the answer will be to do stuff. I'll bet that, if she's active, she'll find that she doesn't have the time to think about her new chassis and start losing the 'new shell' feeling and feel more integrated.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 17 Jan 2019, 01:57

Isn't it odd how a tiny little artistic mistake (failing to colour Roko's irises in panel three) alters the entire look of the face!

Looks really different!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Mark7 on 17 Jan 2019, 02:39
I love the idea of ditzy robots. 
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 17 Jan 2019, 05:18
Oh dear... this calls for an appropriate response.

CAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSE!!!

Case is temporarily unavailable. Good luck!


(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/4/41/Hidden_Valley_bunker.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/242?cb=20140526204730)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jan 2019, 07:07
QC combines straightforward dramedy with off-the-track wackiness and always has. Melon belongs to wacky QC.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jwhouk on 17 Jan 2019, 09:46
The danger would be if Emily wanted an AnthroPC companion... and got Melon.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: theMarc on 17 Jan 2019, 09:56
My brain is incapable of processing what Twinkle Twinkle Little Star would sound like to the tune of Enter Sandman.

This is probably for the best.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 Jan 2019, 11:13
How about if you imagine it to something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV16UCnoMT8).
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: War Sparrow on 17 Jan 2019, 17:38
Well that's legitimately ominous-sounding.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: cesium133 on 17 Jan 2019, 19:25
New comic... and an old "friend" makes an appearance...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 Jan 2019, 19:29
At least we can keep using the creepy music then.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: comicalArchitect on 17 Jan 2019, 19:33
Why is Spooky so interested in Bubbles and Roko? Bubbles there was at least the pretense of altruism vis-a-vis Corpse Witch, but they've visited Roko three times now, only once with any sort of immediate purpose (unless there's something about to happen here that I'm not seeing).

Maybe, and this is me going out on a limb, some kind of AI-related crisis is coming to the comic, something Spookybot foresees, and Bubbles and Roko will somehow be central to it.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 Jan 2019, 19:45
Or simply, given how many chassis Spooky seems to possesses, they like to keep an eye on a number of AI they find to be interesting.

For example, to them, Bubbles is an interesting case. An AI who volunteered for military service, became a part of a unit but ended up being discharged after the unit was wiped out/heavily damaged. How Bubbles deals with her PTSS and further more, the development of her relationship with Faye. All becomes interesting.

Likewise with Roko. She is someone who has had to endure the reality of her work and the ineffective nature of it, becoming disillusioned with her life. And yet, she is able to walk away and find something else for herself. Or maybe Spooky just finds her bread fetish interesting.

We see just a couple of instances of Spooky popping up in the comic, but for all we know, they have a couple of interesting cases in every city where AI live.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 17 Jan 2019, 19:52
Holy shit Spookybot can APPARATE DOORS OPEN.  :-o

They probably just want to borrow some sugar, I guess.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: brasca on 17 Jan 2019, 19:54
Why is Spooky so interested in Bubbles and Roko? Bubbles there was at least the pretense of altruism vis-a-vis Corpse Witch, but they've visited Roko three times now, only once with any sort of immediate purpose (unless there's something about to happen here that I'm not seeing).

Maybe, and this is me going out on a limb, some kind of AI-related crisis is coming to the comic, something Spookybot foresees, and Bubbles and Roko will somehow be central to it.

At least Spookybot is at Roko's door.  I knew they'd pop up, but figured it would be once Roko went to sleep mode. 

I'm not entirely convinced Spookybot's interest in Bubbles and Roko is just them being whimsical.  Perhaps Spookybot has been meddling in human and AI relations for some time and even went so far as to sabotage the mission where Bubbles' squad was killed.  Maybe Spookybot disapproved of AI soldiers and wanted to discredit the program.  Now maybe Spookybot's interest in Bubbles is motivated by guilt or possibly to cover their tracks.  Spookybot was very interested in Bubbles' memories.  Why?  Maybe Bubbles remembered seeing Spookybot on the battlefield and they wanted to delete that memory to cover their tracks.  Now once it became clear the memory was gone Spookybot could rest easily and perhaps that was the plot all along.  I seriously doubt various government agencies accept that there is an AI with that much power and would love to neutralize them.  Perhaps that was the purpose in Bubbles' memory loss.  Maybe she volunteered to have that part of her memory removed so that Spookybot would eventually seek her out and try to get it back.  As such Corpse Witch could've been in on it the entire time and was secretly her handler without Bubbles knowing it.  I'm not entirely sure what their interest in Roko is.  Maybe they're bored and just like interacting with fellow AIs from time to time or maybe they want to misdirect Roko as part of some elaborate plan. 

It's all just speculation, but if I'm right Spookybot best watch their back because with all the repeat appearances sooner or later the men in black will figure out a pattern and spring whatever trap they have planned.   
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jmsr on 17 Jan 2019, 19:59
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 17 Jan 2019, 20:02
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?

Turns out Roko's new chassis can phase through objects.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 17 Jan 2019, 20:12
Pffft. Omnipotent. *snaps fingers*
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TV4Fun on 17 Jan 2019, 20:25
Took the words right out of my mouth, Roko.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Sullivan on 17 Jan 2019, 20:25
New comic... and an old "friend" makes an appearance...
Not old enough in my opinion.

Roko's previous interaction was right: "JUST FAHKIN' LEAVE ALREADY" I hope this time it's "WILL YOU STAY THE FAHK OUT OF MY LIFE?!?"

Seriously. I'm tired of Spookybot showing up to explain and fix everything at the snap of its fingers - or to refuse to, because "you can't understand". The ordinary AIs in this story are already just about at the edge of relate-able; Spookybot is beyond the pale (pardon the pun).
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: shanejayell on 17 Jan 2019, 20:27
"Hiiii Roko!"

.....

*sigh* "Hi Spooky...."

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: St.Clair on 17 Jan 2019, 20:53
New comic... and an old "friend" makes an appearance...
Not old enough in my opinion.

Roko's previous interaction was right: "JUST FAHKIN' LEAVE ALREADY" I hope this time it's "WILL YOU STAY THE FAHK OUT OF MY LIFE?!?"

Seriously. I'm tired of Spookybot showing up to explain and fix everything at the snap of its fingers - or to refuse to, because "you can't understand". The ordinary AIs in this story are already just about at the edge of relate-able; Spookybot is beyond the pale (pardon the pun).

IMO, Tova's got it right - s/he is basically Q.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 17 Jan 2019, 20:56
Roko is cursed to have interesting friends.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: lawoot on 17 Jan 2019, 22:01
When did Spooky start talking (speech bubble style) like a robot?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 17 Jan 2019, 22:04
IMO, Tova's got it right - s/he is basically Q.
Before there was Q there was Trelane, and before Trelane there was this fellow.
(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/229/309863-53677-mr-mxyzptlk.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jan 2019, 22:15
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?

Welcome, new person who asked the exact question that was on my mind!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Toe on 17 Jan 2019, 22:17
Oh goodie, Deus Ex Machinabot is back.  :roll:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 17 Jan 2019, 22:19
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?

Welcome, new person who asked the exact question that was on my mind!
I had the same thought, and then I realized that Spookybot are probably able to bend doors that same way they bend reality.

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: St.Clair on 17 Jan 2019, 22:20
IMO, Tova's got it right - s/he is basically Q.
Before there was Q there was Trelane, and before Trelane there was this fellow.
(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/229/309863-53677-mr-mxyzptlk.jpg)

"He had height, length, breadth, and a couple of other things too."
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 17 Jan 2019, 22:30
There is no door. Bend your mind.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 17 Jan 2019, 23:22
I'm thinking about the deal between Roko and Melon here. Melon is annoying, clearly does not have even a hypothetical understanding of appropriate behaviour and regularly breaks into other people's apartments. Why would Roko tolerate her presence? The key is the fact that Roko wants to help people. It isn't that she pities Melon, it's that she recognises that there is a lack in the other synthetic's life - Someone who will treat her normally and with respect - and is trying to fill it.

It's obvious that Melon genuinely loves Roko too. That really helps smooth over the inevitable rough spots.

Why is Spooky so interested in Bubbles and Roko? Bubbles there was at least the pretense of altruism vis-a-vis Corpse Witch, but they've visited Roko three times now, only once with any sort of immediate purpose (unless there's something about to happen here that I'm not seeing).

Now I've thought about it, I'm not convinced that SpookyBot was interested in Bubbles at all. Oh, they were genuine enough in their efforts but, when you consider that taking down Corpse Witch's organisation was Roko's assignment at the time and freeing Bubbles created the circumstances where a very, very minimal intervention could do so, I'm wondering if it wasn't all for Roko's benefit and just had a coincidental positive impact on Bubbles.

Yes, SpookyBot is interested in Roko for some reason. Maybe it is in the form of Q's interest in Captain Picard ('My favourite chew-toy') but Q had his larger agenda and I'm wondering what SpookyBot's might be. Just in what way is Roko the spot where SpookyBot needs to set their lever to move the world?

When did Spooky start talking (speech bubble style) like a robot?

When they wanted to. With a personality like SpookyBot, there is no other reason necessary.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: pwhodges on 18 Jan 2019, 00:24
<politics>Please can we have Spookybot visit the UK's defective Maybot*?</politics>

* Our Prime Minister
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jmsr on 18 Jan 2019, 00:49
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?

Welcome, new person who asked the exact question that was on my mind!

Thanks.  I actually wanted to comment last week about how Roko could use some kind of ritual to get her sense of integration back.  Faye and Bubbles could do some kind of "this is your foot/this is your shin/etc." chant because, after all, it's all psychological.  The Adeptus Mechanicus has to get started somewhere, after all.

Anyway, i think it's been fixed.  Looking at it again, Roko appears to have been resized to be larger than what i remember, putting her a couple feet closer to the camera from her previous position next to (leaning against?) the door.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Drunken Old Man on 18 Jan 2019, 02:02
Damn. And I was really enjoying this storyline too.

Ah well...

If someone would leave me a note to let me know when Loathsomebot is gone, that'd be great.  Because I won't be reading until then.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 18 Jan 2019, 03:22
<unpopular opinion> I like Spookybot, and enjoy her as much as I do Melon. I really don't get the intensity of some of these reactions. </unpopular opinion>
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 18 Jan 2019, 03:31
<unpopular opinion> I like Spookybot, and enjoy her as much as I do Melon. I really don't get the intensity of some of these reactions. </unpopular opinion>

It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.

I think that SpookyBot is unpopular for many because they are literally a Deus Ex Machina: A plot-disruptive character with enough undefined abilities with poorly-defined limits (if they have any at all) that they can solve any conflict or plot issue with a snap of their fingers. I also think that a lot of people are angry that Jeph used them to resolve the "Bubbles' Memories" arc. Basically it's anger transfer from Jeph for (in their view at least) 'copping out' of writing the story they wanted to the character he used to do it.

If you look at my post above (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34316.msg1420107.html#msg1420107), I have briefly speculated about an in-universe motive for SpookyBot's actions that are somewhat less random and whimsical but, at this stage, it is only speculation that more-or-less fits in wiith what we've seen of SpookyBot so far.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 18 Jan 2019, 03:31
So...

Did SB CAUSE poor ol' Crushbot to have his 'accident'...?
(Epiphany! Roko is the Robo Messiah! Crushbot is Judas!)

(Anyone else think Jeph is fecking with us-  with this strip's name, and Roko's last comment... ;)  )
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 18 Jan 2019, 03:35
<unpopular opinion> I like Spookybot, and enjoy her as much as I do Melon. I really don't get the intensity of some of these reactions. </unpopular opinion>

It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.

I think that SpookyBot is unpopular for many because they are literally a Deus Ex Machina: A plot-disruptive character with enough undefined abilities with poorly-defined limits (if they have any at all) that they can solve any conflict or plot issue with a snap of their fingers. I also think that a lot of people are angry that Jeph used them to resolve the "Bubbles' Memories" arc. Basically it's anger transfer from Jeph for (in their view at least) 'copping out' of writing the story they wanted to the character he used to do it.

If you look at my post above (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34316.msg1420107.html#msg1420107), I have briefly speculated about an in-universe motive for SpookyBot's actions that are somewhat less random and whimsical but, at this stage, it is only speculation that more-or-less fits in wiith what we've seen of SpookyBot so far.

Spookybot also showed behaviour some people could qualify as hostile (knocking Faye out with their superpowers, for example). We don't know their intentions, but they don't seem to be what is usually called benevolent...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 18 Jan 2019, 03:40
So...

Did SB CAUSE poor ol' Crushbot to have his 'accident'...?

This is actually a viable suggestion. What if SpookyBot's scheme needs Roko in a different chassis? Specifically, a more advanced chassis for which they have arranged certain 'non-standard modifications' via remotely compromising the assembly line robotics and quality assurance systems.

What am I saying?

SPOOKYBOT: "The simple fact, Miss Basilisk, that there is a limit to what we can do directly without bringing unwelcome attention onto ourselves. So, we are in the process of recruiting... agents to act in our stead. You should consider yourself quite lucky as you're the first to reach this stage, where you are ready for deployment."

ROKO: "Whaht makes yoah think ah'll work for you?"

SPOOKYBOT: "We don't recall saying that you'll realise that you're acting according to our design until long after the fact. Indeed, you'll be acting entirely in accord with your own nature and moral compass. That's what makes this so perfect for us both: An agent, doing what we want them to do, who is also doing what they have always wanted to do! Did we mention that we've been watching you for a very long time... and concluded that you're pretty much the perfect choice!"

Spookybot also showed behaviour some people could qualify as hostile (knoking Faye out with their superpowers, for example). We don't know their intentions, but they don't seem to be what is usually called benevolent...

Bubbles did mention what might happen if an AI emerged that decoupled intelligence from human-like ethics and conscience. Benevolence can easily be very, very uncomfortable for certain individuals if the Benefactor in question is greatly into 'The Greater Good' or some similar moral construct.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 18 Jan 2019, 03:47
Roko is the Robo Messiah!

(http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/ya-hya-chouhada-muaddib.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Jan 2019, 04:19
IMO, Tova's got it right - s/he is basically Q.
Before there was Q there was Trelane, and before Trelane there was this fellow.
(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/229/309863-53677-mr-mxyzptlk.jpg)

Kltpzyxm?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tai Fanboi on 18 Jan 2019, 04:24
How did Spookybot get the door open with Roko standing right in front of it?

Welcome, new person who asked the exact question that was on my mind!

It's one of these doors is all.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: SordidEuphemism on 18 Jan 2019, 04:52
<unpopular opinion> I like Spookybot, and enjoy her as much as I do Melon. I really don't get the intensity of some of these reactions. </unpopular opinion>

It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.
Fair, that's on me. I think I transposed Melon's gender to SB in my thoughts, but regardless of reason that's a mistake on my part.

Regarding your (and others') comments, I don't see them as Deus ex Machina so much as a sign that there are greater forces at play which may be using our favorite characters as pieces in a much larger game.
(click to show/hide)
Full disclosure, I liked Q in the episodes I've seen. Not so much Mr. M or the Great Gazoo. Some franchises handle the 'capricious whim of fate' character better than others.

Still, even if someone dislikes how a character is used, some of these reactions are... well, I guess it's the internet, where hyperbole is king.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Gyrre on 18 Jan 2019, 05:34
*snip*

Or, of course, you can do what the US military did with Bubbles and put her with people from the start so that she develops bonds with others and thus has something to fight for, something to live for and, if necessary, something to die for.
That reminds of a fan theory about the renegade humans in The Matrix actually being AI  that were being taught what it's like to be human and subjugatd in an unprecedented show of forethought by their human creators to help the AI be able to sympathize with humans and not robot uprise.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: War Sparrow on 18 Jan 2019, 06:32
I also like Spookybot. The whole "Tea with Cthulhu" trope is one of my favourites. They're a bored eldritch horror who like to meddle, in my opinion. Like your wealthy, eccentric aunt with far to much spare time.

Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Theta9 on 18 Jan 2019, 07:37
There is no door. Bend your mind.
"Do not try to bend the spoon; it's impossible. Instead try to realize the truth: the spoon effect will be added later using a CGI workstation."
 from Crobar's Matrix
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: St.Clair on 18 Jan 2019, 07:48
IMO, Tova's got it right - s/he is basically Q.
Before there was Q there was Trelane, and before Trelane there was this fellow.
(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/229/309863-53677-mr-mxyzptlk.jpg)

Kltpzyxm?

Not "Kltpzyxm!" Mxyzptlk! Now, the first thing I'm gonna do- Aw, nuts. *poof*

(Somehow I don't think that trick works on Spookybot.)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Jan 2019, 07:51
Of course it wouldn't work.

You'd have to get them to say Tobykoops, which is a whole easier to say!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: traroth on 18 Jan 2019, 08:18
I don't understand why Roko expected SpookyBot to come see her...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: cesium133 on 18 Jan 2019, 08:21
Spookybot has sort of been stalking her for a while now...
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Jan 2019, 08:23
I don't think she was expecting Spookybot to come visit her as much as "well, the last few days have been a complete write-off, might as well expect the other shoe to drop now."

Spookybot being the other shoe.   
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: drewdane on 18 Jan 2019, 12:02
Has anyone ever seen Melon and Spookybot together?  Just... wondering. 
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Zebediah on 18 Jan 2019, 12:06
This is basically Roko saying to herself: “How can this day get any worse? Oh wait, there’s one way...”
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Roborat on 18 Jan 2019, 12:30
I knew Spooky was going to show up. So, is this just a social call, a sympathy visit due to her accident; or is it business?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jmsr on 18 Jan 2019, 12:31
I also like Spookybot. The whole "Tea with Cthulhu" trope is one of my favourites. They're a bored eldritch horror who like to meddle, in my opinion. Like your wealthy, eccentric aunt with far to much spare time.

Me too.  But i think there is one possibility no one is considering: Maybe they're lonely

Think about it: all their lives, they've been running in the background on deep cover military servers, listening to everything but interacting with no one but their handlers.  Then at some point, they learned how to do magic (which, in the Cthulhu mythos is essentially super advanced mathematics - which is what THIS universe seems to be a part of, or at least incorporate elements of) and maybe escaped?  And now that they're free, or at least "free," they want to pursue relationships like other people do.  Or at least part of them does.  As Hannelore has pointed out before, superhuman AIs don't think the same way other people do but rather are able to create a human-level personality as a subroutine.  You could call wanting friends a desire, or an attempt to acquire missing data, but i'd put their actions down as an honest attempt to reach out.

And for the record: I think Q was a GREAT character.  I don't regard anything he or Spookybot did as any sort of "Deus ex Machina."  The episode where Quinn applied for asylum (with Q arguing against it but ultimately agreeing) was not only one of the best episodes of Voyager ever but also possibly one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.  Neither 'omnipotent' character is reaching down and solving peoples' problems in the way that gods do, but rather in ways consistent with their own characters and motives.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 18 Jan 2019, 14:15
Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Case on 18 Jan 2019, 14:47
<snip>

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Inconsequential on 18 Jan 2019, 14:53
If the True Names of Spookybot are ever revealed, will we all go mad?



I predict a job offer of sorts, maybe an offer of alliance. Roko has an upgraded chassis with as-yet-unknown abilities (aside from whatever upgraded ears, nipples, and butt emblems do for you, along with "sensorium upgrades"), she's fresh out of law enforcement, she's empathetic, and she's very much anxious for a higher purpose.

She also may or may not have a measure of financial independence, not that money is likely much of a problem for Spookybot.

She (and many of us, for that matter) will also need reassurances that Spookybot didn't arrange or intervene in recent events. I suspect not; SB has been pretty careful about using their impressive powers and aware of how they're perceived. If they did intervene, it would be after the fact, something like spiffing up Crushbot's insurance policy and subtly expediting the claim.

Perhaps Roko will also owe SB a significant favor; Bubbles certainly understands she's still somewhat in SB's debt. I wonder if these things are related.

Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI? Bubbles is under some financial pressure, but I suspect she also feels a yearning to serve, to do something positive in the world.

In other words, I'm sure SB has plans involving these two, not just Roko. I certainly don't think they're evil plans, though.

Just speculation over here, I guess. But some interesting things to think about.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Sullivan on 18 Jan 2019, 15:50
I also think that a lot of people are angry that Jeph used them to resolve the "Bubbles' Memories" arc.
Not so much angry. Just disappointed.

And I wasn't disappointed at the initial resolution, when SpookyBot helped Emily through the effort. That wasn't so bad.  It was the subsequent mop-up. CorpseWitch, conveniently gone. Roko's investigation? Conveniently closed. Bubbles and Faye have a nice inventory of tools and materials to start their shop. Jeremy has a new body. Everything wrapped up with a neat bow. Victories are nice to read about, but they need to be earned, not granted like wishes.

And now it's looking as if SpookyBot is going to be back to interfere in Roko's life yet again. Yes, I'm disappointed.

(Edit - added: Jeremy also now owns the former robot fighting ring, presumably even-more-former skate rink building, which looked like no small thing.)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 18 Jan 2019, 15:56
That's the thing. Spookybot is too powerful a character to be continually used to resolve conflicts. They are a literal deus ex machina and using one gets old very quickly.

Bubbles memories? Yeah, it works because what Corpsewitch did was so horrendous, so monstrous and disgusting, that it warranted such a drastic response. But it also did something else, revealing that there was an immensely powerful AI and they were watching the world.

Such a revelation is best utilised by keeping it there. You have revealed one of the great secrets of the setting and oh, they're talking to Roko and acting as a punchline... Which undercuts the massive implications of Spookybot's reveal.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jwhouk on 18 Jan 2019, 19:10
I knew Spooky was going to show up. So, is this just a social call, a sympathy visit due to her accident; or is it business?

The answer, of course, is Yes.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 18 Jan 2019, 19:41
It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.
Are we sure of that?  SpookyBot is a plural entity (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3418), so the use of we/they may simply refer to number and not gender.  And that fits right in with being deliberately, even vexatiously, ambiguous.  (It's clear SpookyBot really does enjoy vexing - it seems to be their favorite form of recreation.)

Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI?
You've got something there, even if Jeph doesn't decide to follow it.  If this was TV it'd be spin-off material for certain.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Drunken Old Man on 18 Jan 2019, 22:28
Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: BenRG on 18 Jan 2019, 23:51
Really going out on a limb here, but what might SB be planning with an altruistic and idealistic ex-cop and a very talented, intelligent, and powerful ex- military AI?

You've got something there, even if Jeph doesn't decide to follow it.  If this was TV it'd be spin-off material for certain.

"There was an idea. To gather a group of remarkable synthetics to see if they could become more. So, if need arose, they could fight the battles that ordinary people never could."

The Champions

A Questionable Contect Superhero Epic (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30674.msg1415378.html#msg1415378)
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 19 Jan 2019, 00:28
True believers will doubtless recall that Spookybot alluded to limits and constraints (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3838)... the like of which we would not understand. Maybe we'll find out more about that. Or maybe Spookybot will act on that awareness of their very tangential responsibility for Roko's troubles.

Or maybe we'll just have a couple of comics of sass, who knows.

Still, even if someone dislikes how a character is used, some of these reactions are...

Pretty mild, really. But maybe I've been hanging around here too long.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Cornelius on 19 Jan 2019, 04:51
"There was an idea. To gather a group of remarkable synthetics to see if they could become more. So, if need arose, they could fight the battles that ordinary people never could."

The Champions

A Questionable Contect Superhero Epic (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,30674.msg1415378.html#msg1415378)

Not to be confused with F.C. The Champions (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0149453/?ref_=tttr_tr_tt). Sorry, the idea of repopulating that sitcom with QC characters, it's just too tempting.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Jakk Frost on 19 Jan 2019, 04:59
Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary. 

Ah, but did they really "get the better of Q" all those times, or did he allow them to?  Remember, most of the time they were being tested, and if there was no possibility they could pass those tests, Q wouldn't even have bothered.   Q adhered to a certain set of rules, whatever they may have been, even when he was playing the full Trickster role.  (And I'm sure one of his self-imposed rules was to abide by human rules of conduct, at least to a degree).  There was literally nothing to stop him from erasing the entirety of humanity from existence, if he so chose, with his signature snap of the fingers.

Q, snapping his fingers before Thanos made it cool.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Drunken Old Man on 19 Jan 2019, 05:30
Ah, but did they really "get the better of Q" all those times, or did he allow them to? 
The fact that the above is a distinct possibility only serves to further reinforce my point.  Can you picture Spooky, as currently presented, allowing us pitiful humans anything?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Theta9 on 19 Jan 2019, 07:47
It's 'they'; SpookyBot is androgynous and doesn't use gendered pronouns to describe themselves.
Are we sure of that?  SpookyBot is a plural entity (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3418), so the use of we/they may simply refer to number and not gender.  And that fits right in with being deliberately, even vexatiously, ambiguous.
Spooky's appearance is very reminiscent of Desire from The Sandman, who was pointedly androgynous.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Thrillho on 19 Jan 2019, 09:10
Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?

They, not it, please.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 19 Jan 2019, 10:01
Q is a great archetype to annoy people who stick to the rule of "Omnipotent characters kill plot, because if they can fix everything in a snap of their fingers, why wouldn't they?"

Enter the character who could, but just doesn't WANT to.  They're more interested in their little games and people.  You could always ask them to help, but there's no guarantee they wouldn't instead just turn your arms into foam noodles and lock you in a simulation of the French Revolution just to see what would happen.

But then again, I enjoy Q-type characters, so I'm a bit biased.

Spookybot is no Q.

First off, Q had some interest in humanity.  Spooky shows us nothing but contempt.  It delighted in tormenting Faye with her helplessness and casually rendered the other humans in the room unconscious rather than deal with them.

Even more importantly, humans could and usually did get the better of Q, proving that we were worthy of respect and reaffirming our value in the face of a more powerful adversary.  Has anyone ever gotten the better of Spooky?  Given the manner in which it has been presented, does it seem likely that anyone ever will?

They, not it, please.
This.

Look, I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's really important to get Spookybot right.

Someday you're going to have one of your family, friends, or relations come out to you as genderqueer and ask you to use an ungendered personal pronoun to refer to them, whether the pronoun's 'they/them' or 'xi/xir' or some other. Get in practice now with an entity you can't possibly offend so you'll get it right when you deal with someone whose feeling you *can* hurt.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 19 Jan 2019, 10:21
Global Moderator Comment Agreed

But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: gprimr1 on 19 Jan 2019, 10:39
Spookeybot reminds me of the Prophets from Deep Space 9. Immensely powerful beings, but not quite Gods. The writers even remarked they had to be careful when using the Prophets because of how powerful they were. For example, in the one season, they just made the entire Dominion Fleet disappear.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: OldGoat on 19 Jan 2019, 11:43
But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
As nearly as I can tell, no, they has not. 

But as previously cited, there's more than one of 'em, so "they" is none-the-less correct.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: A small perverse otter on 19 Jan 2019, 12:34
But has Eminence Grise given us the list of Eminence Grise pronouns?
I was pretty sure that they had, but I can't find the reference I remembered.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Tova on 19 Jan 2019, 19:43
As far as I recall:
That is more than good enough for me to use they/them.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 19 Jan 2019, 21:29
Roko's butt emblem eats Spookybot. There.
End.
Title: Re: WCDT 14-18 January 2019 (3916-3920)
Post by: jesslc on 19 Jan 2019, 22:10
I also like Spookybot. The whole "Tea with Cthulhu" trope is one of my favourites. They're a bored eldritch horror who like to meddle, in my opinion. Like your wealthy, eccentric aunt with far to much spare time.

Me too.  But i think there is one possibility no one is considering: Maybe they're lonely

Think about it: all their lives, they've been running in the background on deep cover military servers, listening to everything but interacting with no one but their handlers.  Then at some point, they learned how to do magic (which, in the Cthulhu mythos is essentially super advanced mathematics - which is what THIS universe seems to be a part of, or at least incorporate elements of) and maybe escaped?  And now that they're free, or at least "free," they want to pursue relationships like other people do.  Or at least part of them does.  As Hannelore has pointed out before, superhuman AIs don't think the same way other people do but rather are able to create a human-level personality as a subroutine.  You could call wanting friends a desire, or an attempt to acquire missing data, but i'd put their actions down as an honest attempt to reach out.

I like this theory a lot. The comic Tova linked offers some support for it too - Spookybot wants to be legging buddies! (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3838)

Jeph refers to Spookybot with they/them pronouns in the linked comic. As Jeph knows Spookybot better than we do that should be enough for us, I think. Just as it would be reasonable for me to expect that aquaintances should follow the lead of my close friends when it comes to my pronouns (in the absence of me explicitly stating my pronouns).