Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 09 Jun 2019, 11:58

Title: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jun 2019, 11:58
Okay, I've got a good feeling that we're going to be either following Momo or May's reaction to recent events... or possibly both this week. I flipped a coin and decided to select May.

Personally, I think that May is at a major life-altering decision point here. I don't think that she actually ever thought that intimacy with a human could be so fulfilling and enjoyable. So, it's quite possible that she's going to ask herself whether she still wants to be a fighter-jet (or some other kind of high-performance flying machine) or if she wants to follow Momo's path and seek closer integration with humanity.

Personally, I'm really thinking that May will decide that she has had enough of the limitations of her current chassis. I'm not sure how that's going to work out. I'm pretty sure she's going to seek a more anthropomimetic body but how would she afford it and would the Department of Corrections even allow her to have it? There's quite an adventure ahead of her!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 09 Jun 2019, 12:51
For those keeping track.....
#3881 Claire, Mom, Tai, and Dora at the vet's.   Keep strays for about a week.
#4019 Claire's mom is reading a book about Borzois.

So..a week/ 10 days have passed?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 09 Jun 2019, 16:38
While the Devil comparison is not undeserved Spookybot only gets involved in AI affairs if they feel like it.  They are like Q.  Now if Corpse Witch was still in the picture I can totally see her making a deal with May. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Jun 2019, 17:27
Will Sven show up and ask May out again?  After their first hook-up, there's very little that would be too strange.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jun 2019, 18:03
I'm more interested to know whether Momo will decide to act on her feelings. What May decides and what Momo decides are almost certainly linked. It's hard to consider either in isolation.

Also, I don't think I'll ever really know who originally asked whom out propositioned whom.

Probably we will have May and Momo reconciling, then whatever May and Momo decide to do next will most likely come out of that conversation. Or maybe May will swear it was a one-off before almost immediately going against that (we've seen that kind of thing before with Sven).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 09 Jun 2019, 18:58
Comic's up.

Poor Crushbot. You accidentally crush one person and irreparably damage their chassis and suddenly you're public enemy number one.

But yeah, seems like this is going to be an AI heavy storyline. Possibly May looking to replace her probation chassis, if she can. And maybe a little for her and/or Roko's respective problems.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Stoon on 09 Jun 2019, 19:15
I actually didn't recognize Roko at first.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jun 2019, 19:29
May is having a bad day.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 09 Jun 2019, 19:46
You know, I wouldn't have expected anything else, but Jesus Christ, May!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 09 Jun 2019, 19:55
Hang on, now hang on. It's not entirely May's fault and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean I'm entirely sure May can pull another clusterfuck out of this situation.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: obafgkm on 09 Jun 2019, 20:01
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 09 Jun 2019, 20:13
  • What is the significance of "11 years ago"?  Or is it just hyperbole on the part of May? How much time has passed since Momo developed a crush on Sven?
Just hyperbole, it was nine years ago (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1658).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 09 Jun 2019, 20:16
"You wouldn't be the first."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 09 Jun 2019, 20:40
On one hand, I wanna go 'May, you jerk.'

On the other, Roko literally got by accident what she really wants. So, yeah....

Ironically, Roko doesn't WANT a new body, too.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 09 Jun 2019, 20:45
I wonder if Roko borrowed that shirt from Melon.  It looks more like something she'd wear.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 09 Jun 2019, 20:54
On one hand, I wanna go 'May, you jerk.'

On the other, Roko literally got by accident what she really wants. So, yeah....

Ironically, Roko doesn't WANT a new body, too.

I mean that's kind of my point though. May is legitimately yelling at Roko for telling May about her new body after May asked Roko why she looked different and Roko told her that she went through a traumatic experience, even worse than how she treated Winslow which in my opinion was pretty shitty in the first place. I'm sure it will be resolved in a few strips so like I'm not legitimately mad or anything. But damn it's like May's entire strategy for dealing with her hardships is treating friendly people with hostility. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Oenone on 09 Jun 2019, 21:01
I mean, she’s traumatized and not the best socialized, so yeah. She’s probably got theoretical tools they’ve talked about in group therapy but hostility is her default. And, based on her lived experience, it’s so far kept her safe...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SpanielBear on 09 Jun 2019, 21:13
Hold the damn line a minute there-

- May doesn't know about Rocko's dysmorphia. At all.

- May lost an arm and her face. Got nothing. Had to go to an illegal AI ring who threatened her parole. For medical care.

- Rocko is looking fancy and well put together. Like Momo. Transference is a thing here too.

- May is in a shitty mood and lashing out. She is being rude. She is not the devil made flesh and walking the earth scourging the innocent!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tyr on 09 Jun 2019, 21:22
My first thought: NO, May! that'd basically be going back to robot jail! Your parole officer isn't authorized to fund repairs. Full replacement has got to be completely off the table. Meaning you're going back to runtime on a server.

Second thought: is the only thing keeping May in that body her own stubborn pride, or are her friends not ALLOWED to buy her a new one as a term of her parole, e.g. that body is lo-jacked in lieu of an ankle bracelet?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 09 Jun 2019, 21:24
Hang on, now hang on. It's not entirely May's fault and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean I'm entirely sure May can pull another clusterfuck out of this situation.

Excpet this is the second time this has happened.  May lashed out at Winslow for getting a new chassis and Hannelore set her straight.  You'd think by now she'd wait until she got the whole story, but this is May and she still has poor impulse control.

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later.  Rokko would run into May and she'd get jealous over her new chasis and percevied good luck while being completely insensitive to Rokko's dymorphia.   

Hannelore isn't around to call her on it.  Hopefully, it'll be Bubbles because I'm not sure May could handle a tet-a-tet with Spookybot. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SpanielBear on 09 Jun 2019, 21:31
Hang on, now hang on. It's not entirely May's fault and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean I'm entirely sure May can pull another clusterfuck out of this situation.

Excpet this is the second time this has happened.  May lashed out at Winslow for getting a new chassis and Hannelore set her straight.  You'd think by now she'd wait until she got the whole story, but this is May and she still has poor impulse control.

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later.  Rokko would run into May and she'd get jealous over her new chasis and percevied good luck while being completely insensitive to Rokko's dymorphia.   

Hannelore isn't around to call her on it.  Hopefully, it'll be Bubbles because I'm not sure May could handle a tet-a-tet with Spookybot.

Of course she's insensitive, she doesn't bloody know!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 09 Jun 2019, 21:41
Hold the damn line a minute there-

- May doesn't know about Rocko's dysmorphia. At all.

- May lost an arm and her face. Got nothing. Had to go to an illegal AI ring who threatened her parole. For medical care.

- Rocko is looking fancy and well put together. Like Momo. Transference is a thing here too.

- May is in a shitty mood and lashing out. She is being rude. She is not the devil made flesh and walking the earth scourging the innocent!

To be fair, I'm saying she's a jerk not the devil
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 09 Jun 2019, 21:56
- May is in a shitty mood and lashing out. She is being rude. She is not the devil made flesh and walking the earth scourging the innocent!

Did... did I miss something, because I don't recall anybody saying she was the devil, just that she was being a jerk. Her poor circumstances might explain why she'd acting the way she is, but they don't excuse it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jun 2019, 22:36
She’s not being a jerk, either. She’s in a bad place. Just like Momo was in a bad place. She thinks she has lost one of her very few friends. She doesn’t know about the dysmorphia.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s easy for us to judge from our comfortable, omniscient perspective. I would have thought that this audience would appreciate that, honesty.

I would really like to come here and find compassion instead of judgement one day. I would not share details of my life to some of you in a million years.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Jun 2019, 22:54

- May is in a shitty mood and lashing out. She is being rude. She is not the devil made flesh and walking the earth scourging the innocent!

To be fair, I'm saying she's a jerk not the devil

She's really not the *anything* made flesh.  Silicon, metal, plastic and derma, maybe.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 09 Jun 2019, 23:01
Hang on, now hang on. It's not entirely May's fault and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean I'm entirely sure May can pull another clusterfuck out of this situation.

Excpet this is the second time this has happened.  May lashed out at Winslow for getting a new chassis and Hannelore set her straight.  You'd think by now she'd wait until she got the whole story, but this is May and she still has poor impulse control.

I knew this was going to happen sooner or later.  Rokko would run into May and she'd get jealous over her new chasis and percevied good luck while being completely insensitive to Rokko's dymorphia.   

Hannelore isn't around to call her on it.  Hopefully, it'll be Bubbles because I'm not sure May could handle a tet-a-tet with Spookybot.

Of course she's insensitive, she doesn't bloody know!

No she doesn't, but automatically May assumes Rokko is there to make her feel bad about her own chassis because she hasn't learned a damn thing since she lashed out at Winslow. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 09 Jun 2019, 23:19
She’s not being a jerk, either. She’s in a bad place. Just like Momo was in a bad place. She thinks she has lost one of her very few friends. She doesn’t know about the dysmorphia.

Yeah, she is, and it has nothing to do with Roko's dismorphia. Roko is not responsible for May's current state. Roko didn't do or say anything to provoke May's hostile reaction. If you lash out at people simply because they happen to be more fortunate than you, you are being a jerk.

There's a fundamental difference between being compassionate to someone's bad state and excusing their bad behavior.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jun 2019, 23:22
Wow! May is taking this hard, isn't she? The cracks about Roko's new borderline-true synthetic human chassis are to be expected. May has been very bitter about the low level of fidelity of her parole chassis from the start and it is in-character for her to frame everything in terms of personal slights as if the entire world were out to get her (or at least demean her). That said, her clear distress about not being allowed to have nice things does touch me. She clearly feels she's been put in the position of having to choose between Momo and Sven, something that I think would horrify Momo if she knew about it.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Roko is aware of how attractive she is to humans? She's probably not in the right place to appreciate it but, as is always the case, this is going to be happening anyway.

'Beep-Boop', huh? I wonder what XBox Live achievement she unlocked?

I wonder if Roko borrowed that shirt from Melon.  It looks more like something she'd wear.

My view is that all of Melon's clothes were purchased by Roko, so her casual aesthetic looks similar or even identical. This was necessary because, whilst Melon observes that most humanoid creatures wear clothes, she doesn't really understand why. She would probably walk around without them if Roko had not insisted that it was somehow a social necessity.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Mordhaus on 09 Jun 2019, 23:54
I wish to be reborn as bread after seeing Roko's new look.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: oddtail on 09 Jun 2019, 23:59
She’s not being a jerk, either. She’s in a bad place. Just like Momo was in a bad place. She thinks she has lost one of her very few friends. She doesn’t know about the dysmorphia.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s easy for us to judge from our comfortable, omniscient perspective. I would have thought that this audience would appreciate that, honesty.

I would really like to come here and find compassion instead of judgement one day. I would not share details of my life to some of you in a million years.

Yeah, my thoughts on this are pretty similar (except the "would not share details of my life" part. Oversharing things is part of my brand, for good and - mostly - for ill). I do think May *is* being a bit of a jerk, but I am not inclined to blame her that much for it. I actually think she, all things considered, has treated others way worse.

May is reacting in a very unpleasant way and she should, possibly, know better, but from the knowledge she has, that's it. She's in a very bad place mentally and she's being a jerk because of that. She doesn't know about Roko's troubles, and it makes sense that "another AI can afford to frickin' get a whole new body" almost feels like a personal slight. May's body, something which she has had serious problems with, is barely a step above "functional". It's prone to losing random body parts. When one is deprived of something nearly essential, a person getting that thing with apparently no trouble can be a real blow. Even if it's not that other person's fault at all.

If, and only if, May keeps going in the direction she's headed, I'll be willing to absolutely blame her. So far, as far as I'm concerned, she's being a run-of-the-mill jerk and that's all. She's not a telepath.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 10 Jun 2019, 00:30
My first thought: NO, May! that'd basically be going back to robot jail! Your parole officer isn't authorized to fund repairs. Full replacement has got to be completely off the table. Meaning you're going back to runtime on a server.

Second thought: is the only thing keeping May in that body her own stubborn pride, or are her friends not ALLOWED to buy her a new one as a term of her parole, e.g. that body is lo-jacked in lieu of an ankle bracelet?

For as much as I know, nobody offered to buy her a new chassis. So the question seems kind of pointless.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 10 Jun 2019, 01:16
There's a fundamental difference between being compassionate to someone's bad state and excusing their bad behavior.

Of course there is.

I’m doing the first one.

I don’t excuse her bad behaviour, I just don’t think calling her a jerk over it is any better.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 10 Jun 2019, 01:32
I don’t excuse her bad behaviour, I just don’t think calling her a jerk over it is any better.

If I might ask, what's your objection to the word?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 10 Jun 2019, 02:09
What makes you think I object to the word?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jun 2019, 02:36
I've just re-read the strip and now, based on panel 4, I'm fretting quite badly that, in her current mood, that May might be contemplating serious self-harm in order to get a better chassis. You see, I doubt that her brain-core is as well-armoured and protected as Roko's.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 10 Jun 2019, 03:41
May has been on an emotional Rollercoaster the past few hours. first, meeting some weirdo clown boy, then getting it on with him. Followed by running out of juice in the apartment of a complete stranger. Then the whiplash about keeping everything quiet, then bragging about it, turning into a serious argument with one of her few friends.
And now, while being in a foul mood even for May, Roko a.k.a. the (ex-) cop comes in "showing off" her new chassis/body, all while may is barely capable of keeping hers running.

To an extent I think May is the "how should I know what I'm thinking without hearing myself say it?" type, and oj the temperamental side in general.
I can see why May reacts this way, although Hanners has told her how that's not OK. She might have reacted differently if she was calm, which she clearly isn't.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Annemoon on 10 Jun 2019, 04:10
I feel like we can summarize the discussing with:

1. May is being a Jerk - she is jumping towards the worst conclusion and being aggressive and insensitive.
2. We, the reader, can fully *understand* how the accumulation of her day + the lack of knowledge of Roko's situation (and her life experience so far) could get her into such a mind-space.
Especially since it's hard to empatize with a situation that is hard for you to grasp.
A situation that is related to trauma almost opposite to the trauma you experience yourself.

We can be compassionate about May's situation, and circumstantial events HOWEVER that does not
take away from the fact that point 1 is also true.
Even more so, we KNOW the situation Roko is in, so we even know how *more* hurtful May's words are in a way that May does not have the info to realise.

It's like being the friend in the middle knowing both sides and seeing it explode right in front of you, while you cannot intervene. We can only hope they manage to communicate their struggles in a way that makes sense for the other.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 10 Jun 2019, 04:11
Hang on, now hang on. It's not entirely May's fault and we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean I'm entirely sure May can pull another clusterfuck out of this situation.
Snip

Read the second half of my post and think about it very carefully.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tai Fanboi on 10 Jun 2019, 05:00
Basically the way I'm seeing it, May was happy after the night with Svern.  Then the Momo thing happened, now the Roko new body thing happens.  Basically, for someone in a position like her's?  Well this is why we don't get to have nice things.  Get that moment of happiness and then it seems as if the entire universe conspires to knock you backward 3 steps so you know that you're not allowed to be happy.

She's still upset over the thing with Momo, she doesn't know about Roko's issues with the new body or the circumstances of obtaining it.  She's angry at the world because her moment of happiness has been torn up and lit on fire and is lashing out.  The next strip will be telling part of the circumstances though.  May is changing, so the way I can see it, she's going to double down on the insults and brashness and piss Roko off...

Or...  Hopefully.

She steps back, realizes, apologizes, and her and Roko have a chat about both of their situations and can hopefully help each other a little bit. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 10 Jun 2019, 05:06
She's still upset over the thing with Momo, she doesn't know about Roko's issues with the new body or the circumstances of obtaining it. 

Her irritation with Momo is totally valid. But she in fact asks where she can sign up after learning about Roko's situation and just because May doesn't know the fullest extent of how traumatized Roko is doesn't make her response any less terrible. And it wasn't okay even when May thought Roko just decided to buy a new chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Czarzhan on 10 Jun 2019, 06:34
I Have A Theory about how this is going to play out. I'm going to insert spoiler tags for what's really going on (in my version) and how it'll play out in the open. So, please, read the open parts first. I can see this going two ways, based on if I'm right on the first hidden bit.
First bit:
(click to show/hide)

Sven will try to get another "date" with May and either:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jun 2019, 06:49
Apart from the 'geez, May', I have to say that I want a blue version of Roko's shirt.

EDIT: blue and black. See icon for color scheme.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 10 Jun 2019, 07:41
This is pretty much what I called the morning after. 

Sven has plenty of income from writing terrible Country & Western songs (and probably other cry-in-your-beer genres) but doesn't visibly throw his money around, so he's likely one of the financially better off cast members (the Ellicott-Chatham family are outliers). 

Most of Jeph's characters are grown-ups most of the time.  Sven and May are the two most emotionally immature, and that would give Jeph as a writer room to make them grow.  Sven gets to question his own motives for upgrading May's chassis, growing up some in the process.  May jumps at the chance for a new body then starts questioning the deeper issues, including Sven's actual motives, and even she will develop some personal insight.

(click to show/hide)

I Have A Theory about how this is going to play out. I'm going to insert spoiler tags for what's really going on (in my version) and how it'll play out in the open. So, please, read the open parts first. I can see this going two ways, based on if I'm right on the first hidden bit.
First bit:
(click to show/hide)

Sven will try to get another "date" with May and either:
  • When May says yes, Sven takes her back to his place and explains that he got curious and went to a new store that rented loaner robot bodies for AIs getting their main body serviced/whatever and they just got in a shipment that day, so he rented one for her. They could go out, have fun, have a "proper" date, while her old body stays here and charges up. May thinks this might be a good plan because even if she runs into Momo, she won't be recognised. So they go out, have a great time, go back to Sven's and bang for a while. May is really impressed with the new body's performance, and asks, "So who do I got to fuck to keep this baby?"
    (click to show/hide)
    OR
  • May will feel guilty about the whole Momo thing and refuse. Then you'll see Sven going back to his place
    (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jun 2019, 07:45
FWIW, I agree with those who said that May would reject a gift chassis on the grounds of pride and fear of being under obligation to anyone. However, if someone could find some path for her to somehow earn at least or obtain one by her own efforts, I think that she would be overjoyed. Whether ParoleBot will be as happy remains to be seen.

One option that comes to mind is May getting a job running the ticket booth at the Robot Fighting Arena and Jeremy letting her rifle through the spare parts pile as a 'bonus'. Bubbles and Faye can do the installation work and May can start wearing a tee-shirt with a 'Body By Me' slogan on the front.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2019, 08:44
Welcome, new people!

Yes, it's hyperbole.

That was interesting speculation about the future of Sven and May.

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 10 Jun 2019, 09:40
I’ve never liked May (although I’ve tried to), and this is largely why. She’s ridiculously self-centred.

I get that she made a mistake, and has been bearing the consequences since then. I’d go so far as to say that they’re probably unfair consequences, because she seems to have been left to fend for herself with rather basic amenities and no official emotional support.

Since then, however, she’s been offered support, kindness and friendship from several avenues, and has shown a habit of either throwing it back in the face of those who offer, or taking beneficial arrangements for granted.

May seems to have a naturally abrasive personality, which some people do. But she’s got such a massive chip on her shoulder that it’s bigger than anything else about her. I do in fact agree with Momo’s eventual analysis of the Sven situation, and think that May and Sven had every right to hook up with each other. I can also sympathise with May’s initial reaction to Roko’s new chassis, because she’s presumably still feeling raw and defensive after the unresolved situation with Momo.

However, when Roko said this wasn’t something she wanted, and that she had in fact gone through a massively traumatic experience recently, May’s first reaction was to turn it back on herself, and take yet another opportunity to bemoan her own less than perfect situation.

Bad things happen to everyone, and that includes horrible people. I’m not saying that May is without positives, but she seems pretty horrible to me.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 10 Jun 2019, 09:41
FWIW, I agree with those who said that May would reject a gift chassis on the grounds of pride and fear of being under obligation to anyone.
I could happen that way, but that will depend entirely on where May is on the introspection spectrum.  With her impulse control issues, pride and fear of obligation are likely to be afterthoughts. 

"A fully functional anatomically correct body!  You'd better have your pants off by the time I'm done booting up, Clownboy!"  To be followed later by, "Am I obliged to work it off by boning him whenever he wants?"

Or it may happen earlier and Jeph may use it as an indicator that she's turned that particular corner.

At any rate, as much of an asshole has Sven's been most of his life, he deserves to be in love with a prickly, sarcastic robosexpot as pennance.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 10 Jun 2019, 10:27
Welcome, new people!

(snipped)

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.

My brother was in and out of prison from his teens to his late twenties, and he'd agree with that. (He now has a job that comes with a home, and is okay.) He does tend to lash out at those closest to him, which is something he certainly shares with May. He also tends to take advantage of people, something that May also does, I think. Where he differs from May, though, is that he's lost that chip on his shoulder. He owns his mistakes, and has moved on as best he can with the consequences of those mistakes. He's built a life for himself from grit, personality and talent, and has also made some effort to repair the close relationships he had with family and friends.

As an aside, nobody in our immediate family judges my brother anymore for the crimes which imprisoned him years ago (none of which were violent). The relationships he damaged were due to him being a selfish, arrogant, thoughtless jerk. (That was a trait that was sometimes evident in his crimes.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2019, 11:51
So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 10 Jun 2019, 11:54
What makes you think I object to the word?

It's the only thing I can think of that would explain why you wouldn't use it in this case.

If you don't think I understand what May would be going through, well...

I've been fighting against depression since I was a kid, most of the time it manifested as me angrily lashing out at people around me for very sketchy reasons (never violently, May's behavior is pretty typical for how I would behave). This cost me at least three jobs, poisoned my relationships, it made me an ugly person. It took years of therapy and medication (still on the medication, probably will be for the rest of my life) to even get close to what might be called an even keel, and it's still a struggle from day to day.

And just as I'm finally getting to a place emotionally where I can start putting my life back together... my body starts giving out. I'm physically disabled. I haven't been able to work in six years. I lost a kidney four years ago (which put further strain on my weak heart and nervous system). If I could afford to live alone financially, I'm still dependent on other people for help. None of this will ever get better for me. My heart is not going to fix itself. My nervous system isn't going to start doing its job properly, my kidney isn't coming back (but he had to go get cancer, so fuck that guy, am I right?). And I certainly can't go undo the things I screwed up in my past that would have allowed me to ride out my disability in the present.

But May is being a jerk, and I know that, because I managed to become an expert on being a jerk, because of all those years I spent being a jerk, and those times when I continue to be a jerk. Because emotional health is a process, it's not binary, and part of getting better is acknowledging when you're failing at it and need to do better.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 10 Jun 2019, 11:55
So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?
More than likely May will see it as another string controlling her life.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 10 Jun 2019, 11:58
So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?

Financially, it would be like him buying her a car. Even if he could afford it and doesn't care about the expense, she'd feel a heavy burden of gratitude that would color her interactions with him. People aren't wired to shrug off that kind of generosity from other people they like.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Marco on 10 Jun 2019, 13:11
Welcome, new people!

(snipped)

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.

My brother was in and out of prison from his teens to his late twenties, and he'd agree with that. (He now has a job that comes with a home, and is okay.) He does tend to lash out at those closest to him, which is something he certainly shares with May. He also tends to take advantage of people, something that May also does, I think. Where he differs from May, though, is that he's lost that chip on his shoulder. He owns his mistakes, and has moved on as best he can with the consequences of those mistakes. He's built a life for himself from grit, personality and talent, and has also made some effort to repair the close relationships he had with family and friends.

As an aside, nobody in our immediate family judges my brother anymore for the crimes which imprisoned him years ago (none of which were violent). The relationships he damaged were due to him being a selfish, arrogant, thoughtless jerk. (That was a trait that was sometimes evident in his crimes.)

I guess the whole issue here is the time frame. How long (in QC time) is May out of jail? For meat people, changing this kind of "automatic lashing out" behaviour takes time. Add to it being prone to extreme emotional responses - QC AIs are usually more emotive than humans, and May in particular is not the most cold analytic person we know...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 10 Jun 2019, 14:35
Bear in mind that the US prison system isn't exactly a system that seeks to help prisoners. It has one of the highest recidivism rates in the world.

As AI are a relatively new phenomenon, we can presume that Robot Jail hasn't had all the kinks worked out.

Now consider May. May went to prison for what amounted to fraud and firearms violations (money and trying to buy an illegal jet). A quick look at Federal Sentencing Guidelines (https://whitecollarattorney.net/federal-sentencing-guidelines/) tells us that Humans face up to between 50 to 60 years in prison.

We can also presume that time is different for AI.

So consider now that May has possibly the equivalent of 60 years in prison. She's done her time and has not received any training or counselling about her crime or time in prison (I'm not counting the group meetings as that seems to be more a general support for AI). She's been shoved into a chassis that has literally fallen apart on her and the government seems intent to leave her there. All around her, AI are upgrading their chassis or integrating themselves into society. Meanwhile, she's still in the corpse's shell. So she acts out. She's abrasive. She's kinda shitty towards people. She looks at the world as though it's going to hit her again. And she's preparing to hit back if she needs to.

And yet, when May has an intimate encounter, she's confused, she doesn't really know what to say or tell people and suddenly the closest person she has to a best friend comes in and (to May's ears) insinuates that she's been doing nasty things to livestock. And when the truth of the situation comes out, yes, Momo had a crush on Sven, but she had no special claim to him, again, May feels like the world has punched her again. And now, Roko has come in with a brand new chassis.

Yep, if I was May, I'd be pretty pissed off too.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 10 Jun 2019, 15:12
Welcome, new people!

(snipped)

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.

My brother was in and out of prison from his teens to his late twenties, and he'd agree with that. (He now has a job that comes with a home, and is okay.) He does tend to lash out at those closest to him, which is something he certainly shares with May. He also tends to take advantage of people, something that May also does, I think. Where he differs from May, though, is that he's lost that chip on his shoulder. He owns his mistakes, and has moved on as best he can with the consequences of those mistakes. He's built a life for himself from grit, personality and talent, and has also made some effort to repair the close relationships he had with family and friends.

As an aside, nobody in our immediate family judges my brother anymore for the crimes which imprisoned him years ago (none of which were violent). The relationships he damaged were due to him being a selfish, arrogant, thoughtless jerk. (That was a trait that was sometimes evident in his crimes.)

I guess the whole issue here is the time frame. How long (in QC time) is May out of jail? For meat people, changing this kind of "automatic lashing out" behaviour takes time. Add to it being prone to extreme emotional responses - QC AIs are usually more emotive than humans, and May in particular is not the most cold analytic person we know...

I disagree that the whole issue is the time frame. May has been out of jail for long enough to form relationships, get a job, and get stable living arrangements. She seems determined, however, to either toss her relationships aside, or else throw them back in people's faces. I think that she is well aware that she's rather a selfish, mean person, and can't be bothered to even try to change. As I said in another comment, I do think she's been treated unfairly, and should have received more official support. However, she's clearly got a chance at a decent life, and she consistently uses it to make other people feel like crap. Not aboard the May train.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Elder Sign on 10 Jun 2019, 15:16
We can also presume that time is different for AI.

So consider now that May has possibly the equivalent of 60 years in prison.

That only made me think of:

Quote from: Star Trek: First Contact
"And for a time, I was tempted by her offer."
"How long a time?"
"0.68 seconds, sir. For an android, that is nearly an eternity."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 10 Jun 2019, 16:15
<snip> Yep, if I was May, I'd be pretty pissed off too.

I don't think there's a ton of disagreement about whether or not May have a right to be pissed ( I could be wrong here, I only speak for myself).

When I describe her character (i.e. she is a jerk), it is less important to my analysis whether or not her backstory is compelling enough to make sense of her pattern of behavior and whether or not that story is sympathetic. I do feel for May's situation and I think Jeph has crafted a personal history that makes May's character make sense.

At the end of the day, the reason for her pattern of behavior doesn't change what that pattern is or what it says about who she is today. She is a jerk and a bully. The May I've observed is mean to people around her, even when those people are nice to her.  And it is so overt, that I believe May both knows and intends to hurt those around her as an expression of her frustration. The lack of sincere apology makes me believe that May probably feels that her situation justifies this treatment. I disagree that it justifies it and I think that if it continues, those around her should not tolerate it anymore.   
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: David F on 10 Jun 2019, 17:12
She is a jerk and a bully. The May I've observed is mean to people around her, even when those people are nice to her.  And it is so overt, that I believe May both knows and intends to hurt those around her as an expression of her frustration.

I see May very differently.  She has almost no filter, and a penchant for profanity.  (Poor impulse control is pretty much her defining characteristic from the beginning.)  The moment Dale sort-of agreed to the "Virtual Companion" beta, she dropped the facade and started swearing.  And yet, he stuck it out with her, because he saw that underneath the crudity, she's actually a pretty decent person.

The same applies here.  May's initial reaction to Roko is friendly, noticing that her appearance has changed and asking after it.  Sure, she lapses shortly thereafter into a venting diatribe (notable perhaps for the relative lack of profanity) that could perhaps be summed up as "Augh, not another friend with a brand new body, why me?"

She imputes a less than charitable motive to Roko, but doesn't directly insult her.  For May, that's positively friendly.  Compare that to her initial exchanges with Dale, where she flings random insults rather like a monkey flinging excrement...

May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 10 Jun 2019, 17:16
May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.

Exactly. May has been through the wringer and its natural for her to be standoffish with people she doesn't know that well.

May is like a dog, one that's been beaten and abused. When a dog has been kicked enough times, you can't be surprised when it bites.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jun 2019, 17:52
I do understand May and can have compassion but I would draw lines with anyone who acted toward me like May does to others.

To her credit, she can be self-aware, as for example when she patched things up with Winslow.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 10 Jun 2019, 17:53
Who'd she bully?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Reaver on 10 Jun 2019, 18:52
Just because May's had a hard life, doesn't mean she's automatically got a "get out of consequences for her choice of actions free" card to go with it.

She has a right to be upset at Momo, she has a right to be confused about what she did with Sven.

She also has every right for Roko to fricken snap at her for her insensitive actions, Roko's been through some heavy shit, she doesn't feel at home or comfortable in a body she didn't want, while May  makes light of the fact that Roku got crushed, and now has things she has to do for her new body.

May is not a delicate broken  glass vase that needs to be handled with delicate touches.

She's a adult that needs to learn that if you just snap at everyone b/c you're having a hard time, you'll find yourself alone, nobody needs to take her crap just because she's got it bad.


Also "MAH NEW CAH SMELLEN ASS"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 10 Jun 2019, 19:06
I see May very differently.  She has almost no filter, and a penchant for profanity.  (Poor impulse control is pretty much her defining characteristic from the beginning.)  The moment Dale sort-of agreed to the "Virtual Companion" beta, she dropped the facade and started swearing.  And yet, he stuck it out with her, because he saw that underneath the crudity, she's actually a pretty decent person.

Unfiltered and impulsive are traits that May has but that just means that the character doesn't hold things back and acts on whims. I think Emily, for example, is impulsive and unfiltered but Emily isn't mean and May is. It's also possible for May to be the jerk with a heart of gold trope but I stand by the jerk portion. In other words, I'm not saying she's irredeemable but she is undeniably a mean person.   

The fact that the way she talked to Roko is "positively friendly" for May is also kind of my point ... that's her "nice." And yeah, she apologized to Winslow .. sort of ... I mean after Hanners stood up to her.  May is hardly the only character that does this and I'm still interested it reading their stories for sure - the drama makes the story more interesting to read. Doesn't make her less of a jerk, it's just part of the character, along with poor impulse control, etc. which has a back story to inform it imo.


Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 10 Jun 2019, 19:08
May has her kinks, but the hilarious boston accent clearly isn't one of them.

(or at least not paying for it...)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: badbum61 on 10 Jun 2019, 19:49
So Roko's Bawstin accent comes out when she's angry.

I seem to recall another character whose Southern accent (and contractions) only came out when she was drunk...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 10 Jun 2019, 20:14
Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Aniroc on 10 Jun 2019, 20:50
I think this is sort of good for both of them. They way Roko is directly calling May on her shit is something she needs to hear, and while this isn't the best way for it to happen, that's the frankest I think we've seen Roko be about her situation on screen.

Also I'm just always in awe of the depth of Jeph's characters. That like us they rarely learn the first time. Also I feel like May is abrasive like Faye was but it's taking different turns, as May and who she is close to are still different people. New characters are getting fleshed out and I'm happy that I'm enjoying his storytelling with them as well as I did the previous ones.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: alc40 on 10 Jun 2019, 21:10
Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
An AI rights nonprofit (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3891).

But it seemed like Roko got the idea of going into that line of work from May's problems with her body, so I'm not sure why the latest comic makes it seem like some new realization.  I suppose Roko might have forgotten about it for a while with the trauma & disruption from her body being destroyed, so this might be more remembering than a new realization.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SeattleCrochetWoman on 10 Jun 2019, 21:55
She’s not being a jerk, either. She’s in a bad place. Just like Momo was in a bad place. She thinks she has lost one of her very few friends. She doesn’t know about the dysmorphia.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s easy for us to judge from our comfortable, omniscient perspective. I would have thought that this audience would appreciate that, honesty.

I would really like to come here and find compassion instead of judgement one day. I would not share details of my life to some of you in a million years.

I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

(I realize I’m actually being judgmental myself here though.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jun 2019, 23:24
Well, I have to congratulate Roko for not tolerating May's hostility and anger transfer. By the looks of May's expression in panel 3, this isn't something that happens too often to her. Dale tends to let her run out of steam and then talk to her; Momo and Winslow are more likely to get so upset that they have to retreat. Roko instead tells May the truth: That she's being self-centred in assuming that everyone else is doing things to hurt or demean her and that she is somehow uniquely persecuted.

Panel 4 was a lovely tension-relief though. Yeah, as odd as it sounds, there really are people out there that pay to be shouted at and called a jerk. May isn't one of them and isn't it typical May to basically assume that this is some kind of kinky 'personal service' that Roko is now offering to make ends meet?

[I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

Waving judgement of the characters' moral qualities is an easy position to fall into when commenting on media, often because the author really doesn't see much need to comment on overt aspects of the character's on-screen personality. That said, I do sometimes get the impression that it's a kind of virtue signalling: "I'm a better person because I can stand on my hill and denounce others."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 11 Jun 2019, 01:31
Roko takes no shite from anybody, not even Spookybot. She's a real badass. So bad move, May...

It really is a shitty day for May. I can emphatise...

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Jun 2019, 03:20
Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
An AI rights nonprofit (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3891).

But it seemed like Roko got the idea of going into that line of work from May's problems with her body, so I'm not sure why the latest comic makes it seem like some new realization.  I suppose Roko might have forgotten about it for a while with the trauma & disruption from her body being destroyed, so this might be more remembering than a new realization.
Conscious vs subconscious

Also she got completely blindsided by the new body.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 11 Jun 2019, 04:20
I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

(I realize I’m actually being judgmental myself here though.)

All good insights. And I agree even though May is rude and jerky, she should still be provided basic health care which means chassis repairs. I'm actually curious how that works for most AIs. Clearly the parole board doesn't cover it but do most chassises comes with a warranty/maintenance plan (i.e. AI health insurance)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 11 Jun 2019, 04:25
Also I'm just always in awe of the depth of Jeph's characters.
Eh, it’s more like he occasionally decides to re-think them into something more interesting, and then retcons them. When Hanners was first introduced, she was a completely different person, confident and bold. Then he re-wrote her as neurotic and touch-averse with some hand waving about “being on pills” masking her new personality.

Roko Basilisk (and isn’t that a mouthful?) was originally a mentally rigid, slightly comical nonentity who existed just to harass certain strip regulars and occasionally end up stuck in trash cans. She was rather 2 dimensional until roughly the “crisis of conscience” storyline which had her quit the police force. Or maybe the Pintsize and Pumpernickle thing that revealed her odd bread fetish? That may have been earlier.

Some characters are one-note jokes and will probably remain one-note jokes indefinitely. Crushbot will always be CRUSHBOT. Melon will always be the insane and slightly stupid comic relief. Personally, I like Crushbot and his third person narratives despite this, but kinda wish Melon would wander off and bother the cast of Ctrl-Alt-Delete or something.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Jun 2019, 05:01
Now, now. No one deserves to be forced to go into the world of CTRL+ALT+DELETE.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 11 Jun 2019, 05:04
I like Melon...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Cornelius on 11 Jun 2019, 06:37
Meanwhile, I'm wondering if we're going to see something more of May's backstory. Up to this point, it's not even clear if she was ever embodied before, or whether she lived on a server bank somewhere. If she was, though, that does raise some questions on the degree and cruelty of her punishment.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 11 Jun 2019, 06:55
I, for one, would like to see Roko take on May as a client.  It'd probably distract her from her ongoing issues with her new body.  Give May the revelation that there are people who are willing to go to bat for her and not for their own agenda.  And Roko's law enforcement experience might help shake her out of her victimhood.
And as noted earlier, get Sven to become a patron of the foundation.  Helping May in a real sense, but in an altruistic manner.

Yeah, I know.  Sven not thinking of himself?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: chason on 11 Jun 2019, 07:00
Sven and May are the two most emotionally immature, and that would give Jeph as a writer room to make them grow. 

Nah I think that May is one of the MORE mature characters. She is just prickly sometimes. However, she does understand how the real world works, something that the comfortable income with very little effort that other cast members seem to have lack.

Momo and Winslow are by far the most immature characters. Sure, they may be the "sweetest" but they are also the most naive. They are "mature" in the sense that many teenagers who are shy and read a lot of books and have active inner lives are, but it is really just a mask for naivety.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 11 Jun 2019, 07:10
It's funny because I was thinking there should be SOMEONE at the robot community center who's job it is to be a advocate for other robots. Like May being stuck in a substandard body. So I guess that'll be Roko...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 11 Jun 2019, 07:37
Nah I think that May is one of the MORE mature characters. She is just prickly sometimes. However, she does understand how the real world works, something that the comfortable income with very little effort that other cast members seem to have lack.
I can’t remotely agree with this. May comes across as a sociopathic child most of the time, a creature of pure Id that can’t imagine anyone else’s point of view mattering. Which is why her appearing contrite in her recent conversation with Momo was a first. I haven’t seen any evidence that she knows how the “real world works” beyond what has happened to her directly.

I don’t know where the “comfortable income” thing is coming from either. Marten basically has no money. Bubbles and Faye have frequently talked about how their shop is barely solvent. Dora talks about money problems all the time too, even if she does own Coffee of Doom. Most characters live with roommates because they can’t afford their own apartments. The main difference between May and the other barely making it characters is that May complains about it.

You might think Faye / Bubbles / Dora are relatively wealthy because they own businesses, but that’s not necessarily true. Some of the worst years my own life financially were when I was the co-owner of a small programming consultancy. I didn’t really get my life together financially until I got a regular salaried job.

The main exceptions financially are Hannelore and Sven. Hannelore was apparently slumming for her mental health. Basically getting away from her parents who are both hard to be around for different reasons. Sven’s so undeveloped we really don’t know much about him beyond what the other characters think about him.

What you said about Winslow and Momo is true enough. Winslow being a sweet child has been pretty much his thing the entire time, even when he was an old-style iPod. Momo used to be pretty adult, but that got dumped when she changed bodies, and now she’s pretty much a teenager the entire time.

If we’re going to talk emotionally mature... Bubbles is probably it. And maybe some of the older tertiary characters we don’t see that often, like Jim the owner of the Secret Bakery. Before the crisis between Dora and Marten I might have said Dora, but her behavior during the breakup pretty much blew that up for me.

EDIT: ... and Roko, come to think of it. I like Roko, and while she gets ticked (see today’s strip) now and then, she comes across as adult. Certainly more than Marten, Faye, or Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Elder Sign on 11 Jun 2019, 09:12
May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.

May is like a dog, one that's been beaten and abused. When a dog has been kicked enough times, you can't be surprised when it bites.

With apologies to "The Boss" ...

End up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just a-covering up, now
Born as an A.I.
I was born as an A.I.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Jun 2019, 09:27
Personal revelation time for those who haven't figured it out already - I spent my career working in the criminal justice system.  I feel like I've met May more than a couple times.  I didn't meet very many really evil people.  I did meet plenty who were lazy, selfish, and stupid, but by far most had just never been shown how to be decent people.  (They'd usually been told, but the people telling them fell flat when it came to modeling the behavior - and that's vital.)

Is May observant and insightful?  Absolutely!  She spots details of others' behavior, is able to instantly discern motives, and also knows instinctively where your goat is tied should she decide she wants to get it.  But it all dissolves into nothing if she's the subject of her own observations.
 
She's a female version of what Jack Kerouac describes as a "jailkid," institutionalized early in life and having a set of social skills that look to most of us like a sociopathic personality disorder.  Those skills start with a hard shell and a mind-set that says the best defense is a brutal offense.  "Hit them back before they hit you the first time" is an acceptable tactic.  She's learned opportunism as a moral philosophy, even if she doesn't always put it into practice.  There's a sensitive, caring person with a strong sense of justice in there somewhere, but it's going to take a while to let her out.

May will always have a thick layer of callous, but most of The Jerk is a character she's playing to avoid being hurt more.  But she's working toward pausing instead of reacting and asking herself, "What would Dale do?"  Because he never tells her how to act, but he always shows her. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 11 Jun 2019, 09:59
I do wonder how much May thinks about Dale. It’d make sense if Dale is more-or-less her role model, since she was introduced to the strip as a virtual character through Dale, and most of her meaningful interactions were largely through Dale, at least until recently.

Of course, I may be reading entirely too much into that. It’s a comic strip, after all, and “what does May think” is really “how does Jeph imagine May thinks” if you step back.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 11 Jun 2019, 11:46
Nice variation of Bender’s catch phrase, Rokko.

Looks like she just found someone to take her mind off her own problems. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: AprilArcus on 11 Jun 2019, 13:13
These strips focused on the AI characters do a way better job of tackling trans issues than the Claire content.

Is anyone reading "O Human Star?"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: thedevilissix on 11 Jun 2019, 13:51
Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: AprilArcus on 11 Jun 2019, 14:17
Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:

It is wrong! Lois has a Providence accent.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: de_la_Nae on 11 Jun 2019, 15:01
I see some distinct mentions of May as 'sociopath' and I can't help but wonder what the fuck some of you people think that word means?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 11 Jun 2019, 15:15
I thought this forum was supposed to be more polite than that. Y’know, more like “I don’t agree, and here’s why,” not “WTF you don’t know what that word means.”

Anyway, sociopath: someone who doesn’t see other people as people. Usually characterized by extremely antisocial behavior. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say May’s been pretty close to that in pretty much all her interactions in the strip. That she actually felt bad about her interaction with Momo is unusual for her.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 11 Jun 2019, 15:21
I think I'm with OldGoat on this one - May is not evil or bad to the core. It's just poor impulse control, getting caught, and being formed by a "attack is the best defense" environment, where being crude is better than getting attached.

Faye got to Bubbles by constantly pushing her out of her comfort zone, but in a caring way. May's shell. has to be broken with a club, and I've got the feeling this might even be more literal than I'd care to admit. May has to experience first hand being vulnerable isn't a bad thing, or a sign of weakness. And that probably won't work by telling her, but by not having an alternative. Unless Roko finds a way, it's probably gonna be her chassis finally giving in, and other people flat out helping her while shut down (the Svarn Sven incident might just have been the first in a series, making May actually trust other people.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 11 Jun 2019, 15:44
I thought this forum was supposed to be more polite than that. Y’know, more like “I don’t agree, and here’s why,” not “WTF you don’t know what that word means.”

More the fact that this forum tries to avoid hurling around words that describe actual mental health illnesses and use them in a manner that either detracts from how serious they are or them ending up being used as an insult.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: jwhouk on 11 Jun 2019, 15:48
May's not the only webcomic character who's considered a sociopath. There's this busty Latina that (used to be) the star of a comic strip based out of Minneapolis. And of course there's Mike Warner from the Walkyverse.

I agree with OldGoat (CO's unite!) about the way that being "in the system" tends to corner you. Unless you're physically removed from that system (i.e., put in a completely different environment, like moving to a new state or such), your likelihood of getting stuck in a vicious circle is about 100%.

Oh, and as for recidivism in the US? I'd say it's "flip a coin" in many jurisdictions.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 11 Jun 2019, 16:24
I think I'm with OldGoat on this one - May is not evil or bad to the core. It's just poor impulse control, getting caught, and being formed by a "attack is the best defense" environment, where being crude is better than getting attached.

Faye got to Bubbles by constantly pushing her out of her comfort zone, but in a caring way. May's shell. has to be broken with a club, and I've got the feeling this might even be more literal than I'd care to admit. May has to experience first hand being vulnerable isn't a bad thing, or a sign of weakness. And that probably won't work by telling her, but by not having an alternative. Unless Roko finds a way, it's probably gonna be her chassis finally giving in, and other people flat out helping her while shut down (the Svarn Sven incident might just have been the first in a series, making May actually trust other people.

I agree with this. There's an opportunity for character development but I do think she is at a point where if it doesn't happen or head in that direction soon, if I were one of the people she was treating that way, I'd cut off contact. Because on the flip side, people don't deserve to have friends treat them that way, no matter how down and out they are.

Speaking of Sven, I've also seen comments here about how he couldn't be altruistic, is super immature and thinks of no one but himself, etc. I think that's odd since his character flaws seem to be primarily around him not thinking about how his sex life affects those around him. Which, yeah, it's inconsiderate but other than that, he's been as decent a person as the rest of the cast. We know he's been unfaithful in the past and that he didn't end his fling with Faye even though they both knew that they had conflicting expectations. But he also was kind to Hanners, was cordial to Marten after his and Dora's break-up, apologized for how his behavior has affected Dora, handled Faye's barging into his meeting with his lawyer graciously, left Faye alone after Faye rejected his confession and we've never seen him coerce one of his one night stands into having sex.  Renee has done more sexual harassment on screen than Sven has.

 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Jun 2019, 17:33
Now, now. No one deserves to be forced to go into the world of CTRL+ALT+DELETE.
Didn't he reboot the whole thing with a different premise?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: TV4Fun on 11 Jun 2019, 18:27
Some characters are one-note jokes and will probably remain one-note jokes indefinitely. Crushbot will always be CRUSHBOT. Melon will always be the insane and slightly stupid comic relief. Personally, I like Crushbot and his third person narratives despite this, but kinda wish Melon would wander off and bother the cast of Ctrl-Alt-Delete or something.
Starting next week, Melon will be at the center of a new storyline where she teams up with Yelling Bird and the Thanksgiving turkeys to find her inner confidence and discover the true meaning of President's Day.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 11 Jun 2019, 18:55
Apart from the 'geez, May', I have to say that I want a blue version of Roko's shirt.

EDIT: blue and black. See icon for color scheme.

There are places that will make you a custom shirt.
Or you could do it yourself. This design is pretty simple.
An Arts & Crafts place will be happy to sell you fabric paint and a suitable shirt.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 11 Jun 2019, 19:00
I wish to be reborn as bread after seeing Roko's new look.

You want a 'fancy and well put-together robot' to sniff you and vent her coolant?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 11 Jun 2019, 19:04
Hey, whatever gets the dough to rise. Who are we to judge?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 11 Jun 2019, 19:19
Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:

I hear Rachel Dratch’s Boston teen character from SNL.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: SpanielBear on 11 Jun 2019, 20:06
It's Mothbot! Hello Mothbot!!!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 11 Jun 2019, 20:45
While I agree that May's situation sucks it's not quite the same as what human ex-cons go through because they're effectively immortal.  Humans who are released from prison may have lost 10 or 20 years of their lives.  Those were prime years lost too and without may prospects for employment it's difficult to hold down a job if their health is declining.  If they're lucky they might last long enough to get social security and Medicare, but even so they probably have little saved for retirment.  AIs on the other hand have to make do with substandard chassis, but it's still possible to muddle through until a more affordable option is available.  Considering how the cost of things decreases over time it's possible May could afford a better chassis than what she has now within just a few years.  And while she'll still have a conviction record after parole she'll have more opportunities including self employment.

That's just my two cents, but hopefully this will give Rokko something to keep her mind off of her own disassociation problem.   
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jun 2019, 22:58
May has shown enough conscience to rule out being a sociopath. It hasn't been a lot, but in a sociopath it would be flat zero.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 11 Jun 2019, 23:12
I don't know, Brasca.  As I read it, autonomous, humanoid AIs are a fairly recent development in the QCverse.  The society there doesn't really know yet when their minds age out.  Their mechanical bodies most certainly do.  Roko v1 wasn't the top of the line but it wasn't a Yugo analog either, yet a hitch in her git-along due to wear sent her to Union Robotics for repairs.  Electronic components do age, too, albeit slowly (at least for quality stuff).

I see AIs having maybe two or three times the lifespan of an average human before they get bored and elect not to reinstall on new media.  (But, of course, it's Jeph's universe so he can write it any way he wants.)

While I agree that May's situation sucks it's not quite the same as what human ex-cons go through because they're effectively immortal.  Humans who are released from prison may have lost 10 or 20 years of their lives.  Those were prime years lost too and without may prospects for employment it's difficult to hold down a job if their health is declining.  If they're lucky they might last long enough to get social security and Medicare, but even so they probably have little saved for retirment.  AIs on the other hand have to make do with substandard chassis, but it's still possible to muddle through until a more affordable option is available.  Considering how the cost of things decreases over time it's possible May could afford a better chassis than what she has now within just a few years.  And while she'll still have a conviction record after parole she'll have more opportunities including self employment.

That's just my two cents, but hopefully this will give Rokko something to keep her mind off of her own disassociation problem.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 11 Jun 2019, 23:25
New comic up!

Okay, I appreciate that not everyone may read the strip as deeply as we forumites and thus we need to have a strip o'exposition to make sure everyone realises what's happening with May's life. That said, I do find today's strip a bit jarring because it's really like Roko turned to the camera (like Matthew Brodrick in Ferris Bueller's Day Off) and started to narrate a PowerPoint presentation to us.

I'll tell you one other thing that worried me: Panel 5. Roko is suddenly sounding very manipulative there; I'm wondering if the opportunity to pursue her own personal crusade may lead her to use May with less concern about May's wants and needs than is appropriate or, indeed, she allows herself to perceive. That would be a shame.

May has shown enough conscience to rule out being a sociopath. It hasn't been a lot, but in a sociopath it would be flat zero.

This isn't precisely a reply to IICIH but, rather, to everyone who took issue with May being described as a 'sociopath'. The fact is that she wasn't. If you read Gus's post, you'll see that he said she comes across like a sociopath and subsequently showed that he knows what the definition of that word is. Don't jump on him for doing so; instead, follow IICIH's example and offer counter-evidence.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Case on 11 Jun 2019, 23:39
So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?

Do you really want to know?

Really?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: ihaveavoice on 12 Jun 2019, 03:07
FUCK YES STRONGBAD EMAIL REFERENCE THANK YOU JEPH

That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 12 Jun 2019, 03:44
So, there I was following Ben's sound advice to find counter-evidence... and I had a couple of examples lined up and ready to go.

Then I came across panel two in #2503 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2503).

So, uh... hmmm.. yeah. She's come across as having sociopathic tendencies to at least one person in the QC universe. Possibly even a qualified someone (though of course, we don't know).

After my previous complaints, you can imagine how I feel.  :roll:

On the other hand, she is out of robot jail now, so maybe it's fair to claim she doesn't come across as a sociopath anymore. My view certainly aligns with that of IICIH?'s on that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: heyjames4 on 12 Jun 2019, 06:05
Side-stepping the insoluble issues of man's inhumanity to robo-man, it'll be fun to see what sort of body May ends up choosing when she has a choice.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Jun 2019, 06:49
While I agree that May's situation sucks it's not quite the same as what human ex-cons go through because they're effectively immortal.  Humans who are released from prison may have lost 10 or 20 years of their lives.  Those were prime years lost too and without may prospects for employment it's difficult to hold down a job if their health is declining.  If they're lucky they might last long enough to get social security and Medicare, but even so they probably have little saved for retirment.  AIs on the other hand have to make do with substandard chassis, but it's still possible to muddle through until a more affordable option is available.  Considering how the cost of things decreases over time it's possible May could afford a better chassis than what she has now within just a few years.  And while she'll still have a conviction record after parole she'll have more opportunities including self employment.

That's just my two cents, but hopefully this will give Rokko something to keep her mind off of her own disassociation problem.

You're right. The situation being human former convicts and AI former convicts is somewhat different. Its worse in the case of AI and I've highlighted why in your post.

When an ex-con leaves prison, yes, they can get caught in a vicious cycle where they get stuck in a dead end job and can barely afford to house or feed themselves.

Now consider an AI that leaves prison. They get put into a clapped out chassis, they get stuck in a dead end job. Not only do they have to try and afford a place to stay and recharge, but they also need to maintain a pretty crap chassis. Its not a case of them trying to save up to get a new one, its more likely they put every cent they earn into trying to keep the one they're stuck in going.

Consider as well that when a human ex-con gets sick, there are free clinics they could go to or more likely, they just have to suffer while trying to pay medical costs. How many workshops are there that would repair an AI's chassis? Remember, May ended up having to go to an illegal fight club to get some repairs done. That's like going to a back alley doctor to get patched up.

And as cynical as it might be, Humans can die. That's the end of their suffering. But what about AI, who are effectively immortal? How long does their punishment go on for? When does it stop? And who is going to break that cycle?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Cornelius on 12 Jun 2019, 07:10
What happens when the proprietary cable is lost/forgotten/broken, and their battery gives out? When they're out on the streets; how long until their drive - unreinforced, no doubt - is irrecoverable?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: ThePerilsOfDan on 12 Jun 2019, 08:13
I've worked at that place before and have the scars to prove it
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 12 Jun 2019, 09:13
I like where this seems to be headed. May and Roko see the justice system from very different angles. It will be an interesting case. We will learn more about Jeph's AIs. May's maintenance situation could improve. (vouchers good at Union Robotics?) And one morning Roko will boot up and suddenly realize her body no longer feels like someone else's.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2019, 10:05
<snip>
I'll tell you one other thing that worried me: Panel 5. Roko is suddenly sounding very manipulative there; I'm wondering if the opportunity to pursue her own personal crusade may lead her to use May with less concern about May's wants and needs than is appropriate or, indeed, she allows herself to perceive. That would be a shame.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the story. Roko said this is justice, and there are horrible ethical and moral hazards to pursuing justice when treating people as means to that end. Roko has correctly identified May's treatment as wrong, has decided to take action, but is not visibly motivated by compassion.

There could be a lot of dramatic conflict if Roko tries to make May a poster child and May objects.

Roko's, uh, "take charge" attitude could also be psychologically dangerous to someone who is recovering from a prison sentence. May needs autonomy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Jun 2019, 11:28
Roko's, uh, "take charge" attitude could also be psychologically dangerous to someone who is recovering from a prison sentence. May needs autonomy.
But it's difficult for her to exercise autonomy with a chassis that leaves her almost a cripple* and so she's facing a chicken v. egg conundrum.  I agree, though, Roko's running at 11 and needs to dial it back.

Fear not.  If Roko doesn't jerk her own leash Bubbles will certainly give it a tug for her - she has cred with virtually everyone, even Spookybot.

It occurs to me - We know May's chassis is failing.  There's at least a 50/50 chance her mental processing module was sourced from the same place.  If it has similar quality issues, some of May's behavior and impulse difficulties may be directly analogous to an organic brain problem in one of us squishies.




*Politically incorrect term used for impact.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: snufflebottoms on 12 Jun 2019, 12:15
Wow. That's actually a great point. I wonder if May has internal problems that might be affecting her behavior. That said we can at least be sure that May had problems before jail since she did commit a crime which was unambiguously wrong. We also don't know how long her sentence was and if it was her first offense or much about her situation beforehand. For all we know she had a desperate situation beforehand ... Or she was pretty privileged. We don't really know.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 12 Jun 2019, 13:28
Do we know that AI are actually immortal? I don’t think they’ve been around long enough in-story for even the eldest to be approaching “long lived human” age so unless someone has done some serious number crunching on average drive wear rates, read/write error rates, and general cruft accumulation, there’s no evidence either way and AFAIK, no word-of-author either.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Jun 2019, 13:47
Given that Roko's core survived getting crushed and the fact that AI can be transferred to different servers easily enough, if technology keeps going as it has and AI are able to repair damage, presumably this is something that is easier than it is for humans, we can reasonable infer that AI are effectively immortal. At least, they have the potential.
Title: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Zebediah on 12 Jun 2019, 14:02
Do we know that AI are actually immortal? I don’t think they’ve been around long enough in-story for even the eldest to be approaching “long lived human” age so unless someone has done some serious number crunching on average drive wear rates, read/write error rates, and general cruft accumulation, there’s no evidence either way and AFAIK, no word-of-author either.
There are enough functioning robot chassis out in the world of QC that there’s almost certainly enough data to calculate mean time between failures (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_time_between_failures) for their critical components. Even if MTBF is decades, you can figure out what the curve looks like after only a few years. (Man, can’t believe I still remember this from those engineering courses I took in 1985 before I switched to computer science.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 12 Jun 2019, 14:59
Do we know that AI are actually immortal? I don’t think they’ve been around long enough in-story for even the eldest to be approaching “long lived human” age so unless someone has done some serious number crunching on average drive wear rates, read/write error rates, and general cruft accumulation, there’s no evidence either way and AFAIK, no word-of-author either.

I suppose that one can say that AIs that are careful enough, and can afford to retain proper backups, and have a proper disaster-recovery plan are effectively immortal.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 12 Jun 2019, 15:29
I suppose that one can say that AIs that are careful enough, and can afford to retain proper backups, and have a proper disaster-recovery plan are effectively immortal.

Of course, that doesn't apply to the unfortunates Castlerook was talking about.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Jun 2019, 15:35
It kind of does apply to them, if you think about it. Because the cores are near indestructible, imagine being an AI who has a crappy chassis that breaks down somewhere remote. The body can't move or its fallen apart, but the core is fine. And its not going anywhere.

Sweet dreams.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jun 2019, 15:41
Do we know that AI are actually immortal? I don’t think they’ve been around long enough in-story for even the eldest to be approaching “long lived human” age so unless someone has done some serious number crunching on average drive wear rates, read/write error rates, and general cruft accumulation, there’s no evidence either way and AFAIK, no word-of-author either.

We have word of author, but it's from so long ago it's from a completely different conception of AIs.

Pintsize asked Marten how long an AnthroPC like him could be expected to live, and Marten guessed it was effective immortality.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 12 Jun 2019, 15:55
It kind of does apply to them, if you think about it. Because the cores are near indestructible, imagine being an AI who has a crappy chassis that breaks down somewhere remote. The body can't move or its fallen apart, but the core is fine. And its not going anywhere.

Sweet dreams.
Kind of like Mr Church (https://www.alicegrove.com/page/22), no?

We meatfolk may be arriving that kind of potential immortality soon, too.  Personally, I think after most individual's second hundred years or so the novelty will wear off and we'll elect to die the way we've been doing all along.  And then there's all the rigamarole around who gets to be rejuvenated.  It won't be cheap, and the technology will need a thriving economy to support it.  We just might attain the potential for immortality then lose it again in another stupid-ass war.  I have no faith at all in the notion that age will automatically confer wisdom.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 12 Jun 2019, 18:34
Immortality has its ups and downs.  You get a cool soundtrack by Queen, but someone is literally out for your head.

Strip is up

Rokko might want to be careful about throwing her weight around.  She’s not a cop anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 12 Jun 2019, 18:34
I'm glad Roko's enthusiastic about the project, but... really not liking her not even letting May talk.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 12 Jun 2019, 19:14
My take on Roko is this:  she has found a new motivation in her life.  We're all familiar with her struggles in her new body.  And not having something t ok occupy herself probably isn't helping with that.  She seemed genuinely happy when she was in the bakery.  A calling like this may prove therapeutic for her.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 12 Jun 2019, 19:19
Although there is a fine line between Roko legitimately helping May and Roko trampling over May.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Roko has something to focus on that can distract her from her disassociation, but she also needs to be aware that she can go a step too far.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: jwhouk on 12 Jun 2019, 20:10
And it is dancing on that line that QC tends to make comedy gold.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: mercykills on 12 Jun 2019, 20:16
I really loving me some Roko right now and as for the Ma-Ko dynamic, I'm thoroughly intrigued.

ROW ROW ROW
FIGHT THE POWAH!

I can't remember where I heard that phrase from but it's stuck in my head, so...enjoy.

PS. Regarding Monday's and part of Tuesdays comic, May I know you got screwed by a friend and you have the right to be angry but here's a lesson that has served me well: "FOCUS YOUR RAGE!"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Cornelius on 12 Jun 2019, 23:18
Rokko might want to be careful about throwing her weight around.  She’s not a cop anymore.

I was just thinking that that might effectively make the manager think twice of hiring an ex-con again. Not to mention that May might be out of a job the moment he realises it's just a bluff.

As for immortality, I thought it was pretty clear that the only reason Roko survived, was the special reinforcement, that came with her police package. Similarly, I believe Corpse Witch explained that the AI fighters had been outfitted with a specially reinforced core. Neither of these indicate that for common AI, this is the case.

On the other hand, if we take the earlier strips as still being relevant, Pintsize was able to be backed up, and restored, even to a regular PC. The reverse of that medal is that they are still vulnerable to viruses, to the point that it could make them stop functioning entirely. So, a backup plan and disaster recovery is essential.
But those cost money that I doubt May is able to easily spare. Besides, you still need somewhere to restore to.

Edited for spelling and spacing.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 12 Jun 2019, 23:20
Yeah, this is basically what I was worried about yesterday. I don't doubt for a minute that Roko genuinely wants to make May's life better but this strip really makes me wonder if she's having a manic episode of some kind. She's suddenly so hyperactive and determined and she's basically ignoring the person that she's allegedly trying to help. That could lead to bad outcomes especially if she's suddenly imposing solutions on May that she's not personally entirely committed to yet.

Additionally, Panel 4 indicates that she's come up with at least one strategy that could make May's situation worse. After all, an employee's personal adviser calls and basically threatens to expose you if you don't give them a no-notice day off work. Now, who could possibly have told them your Big Dark SecretTM? The same employee, of course! They're fired!

That said... I wonder how many low-income AIs ever bother to look into the prior residents of their chassis? I would consider it as weird as looking into the previous owner of a set of clothes or a home but I can imagine that there are occasionally reasonable requirements to do so such as naming them in lawsuits because their carelessness voided the chassis's warranty or something similar!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 13 Jun 2019, 01:56

Ignoring the metaphysical debate just to say...


That last panel is going to be passed around offices like crazy!  :)

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jun 2019, 06:54
If there's been enough experience with chassis damage over the years to give insurance companies the numbers to make it profitable, they will certainly be offering policies.

If May could even get one she probably couldn't afford it.

"Decreased sociopathic tendencies" started a line of thought. Jeph said years ago that AIs could change their personalities with a software patch. Assuming he hasn't changed his mind on this, it's a question why the criminal system didn't install one on May or "encourage" her to "volunteer" for one. A likely answer is that Spookybot is offended by any such idea and has put a stop to any attempts to implement it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jun 2019, 07:04
"Decreased sociopathic tendencies" started a line of thought. Jeph said years ago that AIs could change their personalities with a software patch. Assuming he hasn't changed his mind on this, it's a question why the criminal system didn't install one on May or "encourage" her to "volunteer" for one. A likely answer is that Spookybot is offended by any such idea and has put a stop to any attempts to implement it.

This is easy plot hole to eliminate just by making it a criminal offence to alter an AI algorithm in an arbitrary way such as by using a personality patch. The downside of them being declared real people by just about every government on Earth and therefore protected against abuse by the laws that stop people from having involuntary brain surgery to 'cure' inconvenient personality traits.

The decision was made (and I'll bet the majority of AIs agreed) that being alive and endowed with inalienable rights includes having to get to perfection the hard way, like all of us.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Marco on 13 Jun 2019, 07:19
It occurs to me - We know May's chassis is failing.  There's at least a 50/50 chance her mental processing module was sourced from the same place.  If it has similar quality issues, some of May's behavior and impulse difficulties may be directly analogous to an organic brain problem in one of us squishies.

Yeah, I had a PC once who was like that. But it ran on Windows Vista, so...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 13 Jun 2019, 07:49
Roko gets a bit carried away...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: sitnspin on 13 Jun 2019, 08:17
Forcing a personality patch would be like forcefully brainwashing someone or slicing up their brains. There is a reason we don't do icepick lobotomies anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Jun 2019, 08:17
If there's been enough experience with chassis damage over the years to give insurance companies the numbers to make it profitable, they will certainly be offering policies.

If May could even get one she probably couldn't afford it.

And since we're talking 'murrica: pre-existing conditions.


To me, AI drives/cores seem more and more like "stacks"/DHFs from Altered Carbon. You can transfer the contents, you can spin them up in a virtual environment, and you can transfer them between bodies.
I wonder how much Jeph jas borrowed, and how much is just parallel evolution (well, it's "just" some kind of storage device for consciousness).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Jun 2019, 09:57
If there's been enough experience with chassis damage over the years to give insurance companies the numbers to make it profitable, they will certainly be offering policies.

If May could even get one she probably couldn't afford it.

"Decreased sociopathic tendencies" started a line of thought. Jeph said years ago that AIs could change their personalities with a software patch. Assuming he hasn't changed his mind on this, it's a question why the criminal system didn't install one on May or "encourage" her to "volunteer" for one. A likely answer is that Spookybot is offended by any such idea and has put a stop to any attempts to implement it.
I see the insurance industry using their automobile coverage model for AI's chassis.  From the figures that have squeaked out, product lines and price ranges closely mirror those of passengers cars.  Aside from the occasional outlier like Crushbot though, AIs don't have the potential to create liability that motor vehicles do, so the coverage is probably somewhat less expensive.  Poor May could have been issued a Taurus but instead got a used Yugo.  Comprehensive coverage may not even be available.

I wonder about the limits of Spookybots' power.  We know that their perceived ability to be in multiple places at once (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3414) is a bluff (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3418).  I suspect Jeph will every now and then slip another hint that Spookybot is technology but not deity.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Zebediah on 13 Jun 2019, 10:39
I’d argue that “bluff” is the wrong word for Spookybots’ multilocationism. They have multiple bodies, so they really can be in multiple places at once!

The background details of how this is implemented are not currently specified, though I would postulate multiple instances of the same personality running on separate hardware, with frequent synchronization of memories so that the different instances don’t diverge too much.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: sitnspin on 13 Jun 2019, 12:39
I’d argue that “bluff” is the wrong word for Spookybots’ multilocationism. They have multiple bodies, so they really can be in multiple places at once!

The background details of how this is implemented are not currently specified, though I would postulate multiple instances of the same personality running on separate hardware, with frequent synchronization of memories so that the different instances don’t diverge too much.

Read "Ancillary Justice" if you want to see what happens if you let multiple instances of the same consciousness deviate too far from each other.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: JimC on 13 Jun 2019, 13:08
So, uh... hmmm.. yeah. She's come across as having sociopathic tendencies to at least one person in the QC universe.
Sociopathy is going to be a spectrum like anything else, surely.  Folks might like to draw a line in the sand and say anywhere beyond that is a Sociopath and a danger to society and anyone within that is a perfectly normally functioning member of society, but I bet it ain't like that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Oenone on 13 Jun 2019, 13:57
I’d argue that “bluff” is the wrong word for Spookybots’ multilocationism. They have multiple bodies, so they really can be in multiple places at once!

The background details of how this is implemented are not currently specified, though I would postulate multiple instances of the same personality running on separate hardware, with frequent synchronization of memories so that the different instances don’t diverge too much.

Read "Ancillary Justice" if you want to see what happens if you let multiple instances of the same consciousness deviate too far from each other.

Ancillary Justice is SO GOOD.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Jun 2019, 15:30
So, uh... hmmm.. yeah. She's come across as having sociopathic tendencies to at least one person in the QC universe.
Sociopathy is going to be a spectrum like anything else, surely.  Folks might like to draw a line in the sand and say anywhere beyond that is a Sociopath and a danger to society and anyone within that is a perfectly normally functioning member of society, but I bet it ain't like that.

And IMHO, only when literally everyone is on one kind of spectrum, or another, they will think about what actually is "normal", and how much that actually matters.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: War Sparrow on 13 Jun 2019, 18:37
Comic!

If only "Asking Nicely" was all it took.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 13 Jun 2019, 18:53
If I had a euro every time it took "asking nicely" to solve a problem, I'd be in debt.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 13 Jun 2019, 19:16
I’d argue that “bluff” is the wrong word for Spookybots’ multilocationism. They have multiple bodies, so they really can be in multiple places at once!

The background details of how this is implemented are not currently specified, though I would postulate multiple instances of the same personality running on separate hardware, with frequent synchronization of memories so that the different instances don’t diverge too much.

Read "Ancillary Justice" if you want to see what happens if you let multiple instances of the same consciousness deviate too far from each other.

In "Ancillary Justice", it becomes a problem when distances between those instances become so immense that even at the speed of light, information takes months or even years to propagate.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: traroth on 13 Jun 2019, 19:20
So Roko actually has found dirt on May's manager...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 13 Jun 2019, 19:32
So Roko actually has found dirt on May's manager...
Well, maybe. Who knows? Maybe asking nicely was all it took.

Or maybe Roko calmed down just a tad and realised that it could probably wait until the end of May's shift.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: DashaBlade on 13 Jun 2019, 19:57
Ya know, though....

If May were able to show that she has the ability to ask for something nicely, it would represent marked personal growth on her part, and might convince whoever's in charge of giving parolees new bodies that she's capable of rehabilitation and thus worth the cost of a new(er) model chassis.

Not that I expect that would happen, but then, I can't recall May ever asking nicely for anything, so...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Raptorofwar on 13 Jun 2019, 20:13
Ya know, though....

If May were able to show that she has the ability to ask for something nicely, it would represent marked personal growth on her part, and might convince whoever's in charge of giving parolees new bodies that she's capable of rehabilitation and thus worth the cost of a new(er) model chassis.

Not that I expect that would happen, but then, I can't recall May ever asking nicely for anything, so...
But it's the government.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Jun 2019, 20:34
So Roko actually has found dirt on May's manager...
I doubt it.  Roko's an old hand at bluffing, and if you run your bluff right, their guilty conscience will fills in the details.

As for asking nicely, turning on the charm can work wonders.  And if the person asked gets brownie points for moving AI chassis out of the warehouse, it's a cinch!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: TRenn on 13 Jun 2019, 20:40
Ya know, though....

If May were able to show that she has the ability to ask for something nicely, it would represent marked personal growth on her part, and might convince whoever's in charge of giving parolees new bodies that she's capable of rehabilitation and thus worth the cost of a new(er) model chassis.

Not that I expect that would happen, but then, I can't recall May ever asking nicely for anything, so...

"Well, if all I have to do is ask nicely, I can absolut.... I can probably.... Okay, I can't do that.

"I can get my friend Momo to ask nicely FOR me."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 13 Jun 2019, 23:03
There's something about three robots standing in front of a door marked "Restroom" that makes me snicker.

No doubt it's a building not specifically designed for AIs, they may even have clients come in with meatfolk friends, and being a not-for-profit they take what space they can get.  Still . . .
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 13 Jun 2019, 23:26
I agree with May that Beepatrice's suggested solution would be very annoying if it works.

Okay, conspiracy theorist's tin-foil hat firmly on here: I'm starting to think that this robot aid charity is a scam, based on the fact that Beepatrice has absolutely no clue how to actually help May. I'm starting to wonder if the organisation has helped a big fat zero AIs in any practical way and all they do is listen to their clients' 'sob stories' and then hand out leaflets for therapy and support groups that are all about how nothing can be changed. Indeed, it was for this purpose that this largely Federally-funded organisation was originally founded - to give needy AIs the impression someone was going to bat for them when nobody actually was. This would stop them from rocking the economic and political boat too much by working hard to change things and instead wait patiently for the assistance for which the organisation is unequipped and organisationally unable to offer.

Nelson has managed to be Employee of the Month so many times because he has held the record for  the number of AIs he manages to disabuse of any notion that anyone will give them practical assistance and, instead, that they must learn to accept their lot in life. Maybe he'll be the one to explain it to Roko (much like how O'Malley was the voice of the cynical policeman). Roko is going to get in a lot of trouble for actually offering May practical assistance by bothering people in the Department of Corrections over something that no-one (in power) is even remotely concerned about.

I've just got the impression that Roko and Beeps are going to end up having to go freelance after actually succeeding in helping May, this leading members of the Federal bureaucracy to demand that her supervisors 'do something about the loose cannon'.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Cornelius on 13 Jun 2019, 23:46
... that sounds disconcertingly like the student support of a higher education institution I know. They're -were- pushing the idea that the system isn't broken, you are, and by the way, shouldn't you be in therapy for those paranoid suspicions? It took three years, misdelivered official correspondence, and threats of a high publicity law suit, to convince them - or get them to admit - that there was a structural problem.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: DashaBlade on 13 Jun 2019, 23:49
Nelson has managed to be Employee of the Month so many times because he has held the record for  the number of AIs he manages to disabuse of any notion that anyone will give them practical assistance and, instead, that they must learn to accept their lot in life. Maybe he'll be the one to explain it to Roko (much like how O'Malley was the voice of the cynical policeman). Roko is going to get in a lot of trouble for actually offering May practical assistance by bothering people in the Department of Corrections over something that no-one (in power) is even remotely concerned about.

In my (wildly speculative) headcanon, until it's disproven, Nelson has won Employee of the Month because he's the only one there with a license to practice law, so he's the only one who can actually get anything done. My only reason for thinking this is that it would be hilarious to picture Nelson, attorney-at-law arguing in court.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 13 Jun 2019, 23:56

In my (wildly speculative) headcanon, until it's disproven, Nelson has won Employee of the Month because he's the only one there with a license to practice law, so he's the only one who can actually get anything done. My only reason for thinking this is that it would be hilarious to picture Nelson, attorney-at-law arguing in court.

My mind has Nelson as Employee of the month because he's the only one who gets stuff done.
To me, it would be funny if Beepatrice would get a hearing for them simply because everybody thinks Beeps won't get anything done, plus has a FNG (effing new guy) in tow. But since Roko is determined to get things done, AND knows her way around law amd bureaucracy, they actually achieve something.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2019, 08:50
There's something about three robots standing in front of a door marked "Restroom" that makes me snicker.

No doubt it's a building not specifically designed for AIs, they may even have clients come in with meatfolk friends, and being a not-for-profit they take what space they can get.  Still . . .

All of the above, plus it serves public health if they wash their hands regularly. They'll be shaking hands with people vulnerable to organic pathogens.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Castlerook on 14 Jun 2019, 08:56
Not sure what the building requirements are in Northampton, but I'm pretty sure that all buildings providing a service must also have restrooms, even if the occupants of the building don't need them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 14 Jun 2019, 12:49
Not sure what the building requirements are in Northampton, but I'm pretty sure that all buildings providing a service must also have restrooms, even if the occupants of the building don't need them.
Now that does sound like local government.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2019, 13:52
Forcing a personality patch would be like forcefully brainwashing someone or slicing up their brains. There is a reason we don't do icepick lobotomies anymore.

And as long as May is under correctional control, I would not believe any claim she had consented to a patch.

Neither would Arrogant Architeuthis, I imagine.

The strip has shown wetware-based intelligences seeking change through therapy. Would patches with informed free consent be the equivalent for silicon-based people? Why have we never seen it happen? Do they prefer talk therapy?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: brasca on 14 Jun 2019, 14:09
Nelson has managed to be Employee of the Month so many times because he has held the record for  the number of AIs he manages to disabuse of any notion that anyone will give them practical assistance and, instead, that they must learn to accept their lot in life. Maybe he'll be the one to explain it to Roko (much like how O'Malley was the voice of the cynical policeman). Roko is going to get in a lot of trouble for actually offering May practical assistance by bothering people in the Department of Corrections over something that no-one (in power) is even remotely concerned about.

In my (wildly speculative) headcanon, until it's disproven, Nelson has won Employee of the Month because he's the only one there with a license to practice law, so he's the only one who can actually get anything done. My only reason for thinking this is that it would be hilarious to picture Nelson, attorney-at-law arguing in court.

Wonder what attorney persona he has. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 14 Jun 2019, 15:41
The strip has shown wetware-based intelligences seeking change through therapy. Would patches with informed free consent be the equivalent for silicon-based people? Why have we never seen it happen? Do they prefer talk therapy?

I suspect that AIs either do talk therapy and support groups like us meat-beings, or maintain that to speed up the process in the outside world, use a cluster.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Tova on 14 Jun 2019, 16:58
I would imagine that one AI right (among many) being fought for would be to have AI charging facilities in all buildings.

It's not too hard to imagine why. A more obvious significant goal of AI rights groups would be equal employment opportunities. Lack of AI facilities would be a barrier to employment.

AIs would also need to visit companies for meetings, to make inquiries, and various other purposes. AIs would visit people's homes as well, for all kinds of reasons. Such visitors should be catered for.

Charging facilities would be an AI analogue of restrooms, and as we've already seen, AIs can get caught short. Thus, in a world with equal rights for all, all buildings would have facilities for AIs.

Now flip that around, and it's not hard to see why all buildings should also have human facilities. Humans can work at, and visit, AI organisations. Since the QC world is already skewed towards humans, it's easy to imagine that legislation around that already exists.

One real-world example that I have encountered. Girls' schools with male restrooms. Does that surprise you as well? It really shouldn't, for precisely the same reasons outlined above - visitors and (potentially) male staff.*

* I was surprised in my specific example that they weren't unisex bathrooms, but that's another (albeit related) topic.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: Kairi on 14 Jun 2019, 18:10
I am in awe of the art here. Really liking the primary color thing happening. I would very much like to imagine this has been set up since they were introduced.

With grey backgrounds too? This is just extremely visually pleasing
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 15 Jun 2019, 10:37
Forcing a personality patch would be like forcefully brainwashing someone or slicing up their brains. There is a reason we don't do icepick lobotomies anymore.

And as long as May is under correctional control, I would not believe any claim she had consented to a patch.

Neither would Arrogant Architeuthis, I imagine.

The strip has shown wetware-based intelligences seeking change through therapy. Would patches with informed free consent be the equivalent for silicon-based people? Why have we never seen it happen? Do they prefer talk therapy?
Analogous to meds for us squishies.  Some embrace it and bless it for having given them their lives back, others think it's some kind of plot, and some who desperately need it have to have it forced upon them by court order.  I imagine that same range of behaviors in AIs.

(I acknowledge that there are less than excellent therapists who do inappropriately force medication upon patients.  I also know more that a couple seriously dysfunctional people who know they need their medication but resist treatment because of their personal policy of bowing their necks against any form of authority, including clinicians.  I don't think that kind of mindset would be as common among AIs who as a group would have a much better awareness of the electrochemical nature of their own brain media.)