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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: jwhouk on 04 Aug 2019, 17:10

Title: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: jwhouk on 04 Aug 2019, 17:10
And here we go.

(Mods, feel free to add or alter the poll.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 04 Aug 2019, 19:09
https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4061

Strip up!

Poor little guy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 04 Aug 2019, 19:21
Is there an AI analog for Prozac?

(I HATE that "I wanna stay in bed all day" feeling.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 04 Aug 2019, 19:27
I was thinking more "robot xanax"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 04 Aug 2019, 19:45
Hanners takes two steps forward and Winslow takes three back. He really needs to talk to someone.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 04 Aug 2019, 20:29
He really needs to talk to someone.

Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 04 Aug 2019, 20:45
I'm hoping for some sort of Winslow/Melon contact.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 04 Aug 2019, 20:58
I was thinking more "robot xanax"
[/quote suppose it would be similar to what AIs use to get high.  We've seen Roko and Omalley use an alcohol analog, and Pintsize using weed and mushroom .
  The thing is, Winslow has to acknowledge that things aren't right with him.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 04 Aug 2019, 22:02
I fear Winslow DID pick up a thing or two from Hanners. Might be a... well, "lack of context" - for the lack of a better expression.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Aug 2019, 23:17
You know, I really think that Hannelore has underestimated just how her Great Journey of Self-Finding may have traumatised Winslow!

Of course, before getting his anthropomimetic chassis, Winslow was pretty much a stay-at-home AI beyond going over to Marten and Faye's apartment occasionally to hang out with Pintslze. So, in some ways, he's going back to his basics by being fairly idle when not actively helping Hannelore with anything.

That said, I'm pretty sure that this is all going to turn into some kind of parable about confronting the wider world and how the easy path isn't the best. I can already hear Marten muttering something about how giving advice is easier when your friend in need isn't just doing what you do but to a far more extreme degree!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Zebediah on 05 Aug 2019, 03:59
I know exactly how Winslow feels. It’s easier to just stay with the familiar and safe.

It’s also a trap. Which is why, instead of sitting at home doing nothing, I’m traveling. I’m currently in the city of Lugo, Spain, where I just spent the morning exploring the city’s fully intact Roman walls. How cool is that? I can’t do that back in Northampton.

I mean, I could stay at home instead of traveling to a country where I barely speak the language, but what kind of a person would I be then? It’s good to get out of the rut I was in, however comfortable that rut may have been.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 05 Aug 2019, 04:32
In regards to the poll; the spiders have done nothing wrong and they aren't trying to hurt anyone.
Leave them alone.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 05 Aug 2019, 05:17
I think the problem here is that Winslow doesn't appreciate all the good he got to experience, he's so focused on the bad.
He's gotten to see things most of us can only dream of.
He's helped connect a small monastery to the rest of the world.
His dearest friend has made one of the biggest breakthroughs of her life and is healthier for the experience.

And he can't see that. Which is a shame.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 05 Aug 2019, 08:13
I'm hoping for some sort of Winslow/Melon contact.
Now THAT would make for an interesting romance.  (Wait a minute, did she already meet him in the therapy group?)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 05 Aug 2019, 08:45
Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

Personally I think Winslow has the right idea.  Pigeons aren’t venomous, but they might as well be with the level of diseases they carry.  Better to just observe.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Aug 2019, 08:53
Even better than observing them:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: theMarc on 05 Aug 2019, 09:05
He really needs to talk to someone.
Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.
SOMEONE ELSE.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Aug 2019, 09:07
This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.

I do think that Hannelore might benefit from being more aware of how negatively Winslow viewed and continues to view the whole experience (she was failing to notice his fears when they visited the seabed research base, IIRC). However, on the other hand, Winslow should know enough from her experiences to know that simply hiding from your fear and pain does not help.

All that said, I do not believe that this should be considered even about 'who is terrible' but rather 'how can I help'. Blame is misplaced when there is no obvious way anyone could have foreseen fault.

He really needs to talk to someone.

Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.

SOMEONE ELSE.

I kind of want Momo and May to come to visit and that to shake him out of his rut. Especially when May excitably tells him about her recent new experiences.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 05 Aug 2019, 09:10
Even better than observing them:
[[snippage]]
Especially if you identify with this fellow.
(https://wisdom.yoga/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Pigeons-on-statue.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 05 Aug 2019, 09:35
Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 05 Aug 2019, 10:23
... when May excitably tells him about her recent new experiences.

 with a melon
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Aug 2019, 10:39
I don't think that Melon was involved.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: oddtail on 05 Aug 2019, 12:45
Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.

Agree to disagree, I guess? If I knew in advance I'd have to puke for 12 hours to see something, I just *might* pass on seeing the frickin' Island of Atlantis, moreso any view that exists in the real world.

Some people just don't enjoy travelling at all, being intensely uncomfortable not because of the specifics, but because of the fact of travelling alone. I ain't saying Winslow is like that, because he does seem to complain about specific bad things that happened, but it's possible that he isn't wired* for that kind of stuff.

I generally tend to think that if someone doesn't appreciate something (anything, really), insisting that they're just missing the good stuff is failure to appreciate a different perspective. People have tried to guilt me into "enjoying" things on enough occasions that I appreciate Winslow's attitude, even if I see how it can limit his life experience. I don't think anyone has an obligation to expand their horizons, to have "fun" doing any specific thing, or to appreciate anything.

(I do see the potential for the discussion devolving into arguing "who is bad here". I'm just pointing out that Winslow isn't hurting anyone by "not appreciating" being out of his home or out of his comfort zone.)

Incidentally, I wonder how Hannelore missed it if Winslow was as intensely uncomfortable with the travels as the comic seems to imply he was.

* - I wonder if that particular expression carries some baggage in QC's world, what with sapient machines existing and the like.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 05 Aug 2019, 14:43
I don't think that Melon was involved.
Just an unfortunate fruit from the produce department.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: andrybak on 05 Aug 2019, 21:56
#4062 is up (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4062)!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Aug 2019, 22:41
Sometimes reassuring people makes things worse ...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Dandi Andi on 05 Aug 2019, 23:19
On the one hand, we see behavior in Winslow that give us reasons to suspect anxiety that other characters have not, so we may be inclined to agree with Hanners that there is a potential problem brewing. We also have the advantage of reading this as a crafted narrative and understand (at least in an intuitive way) narrative language and conventions, so we know that seeing those signs is a deliberate choice by the author to let us know that.

On the other hand, from the point of view of any of the characters, Winslow has just returned to his comfort zone after a long voyage around the world. It is perfectly reasonable for Dora to think he just needs a few days to decompress and return to a state of normal. Wanting to sit and watch pigeons is a pretty normal thing for him to want to do.

So from the perspective of the reader, she's probably right to be worried. But from the perspective of the characters, she's probably overreacting. But if Winslow is developing an anxiety problem, intervening earlier is probably better than later. It's actually kind of hard for me to decide what I expect Hanners to do in this situation.

Also, unrelated, does the waist of his pants say "BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP"?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: maneyan on 05 Aug 2019, 23:25
Much as I'm wondering if Hanners is being overbearing, I can agree with the notion that "I'm sure it will be fine" can have some real issues. Giving space and time is one thing, shrugging and not doing anything is another.

Also I don't recall what it is called, but it might be something akin to codependency. I wonder if Winston will have taken over Hannelore's more shut-in personality traits after this. That in turn will raise interesting questions about Hannelore's responsibilities towards him. Are they equals? Or is Hannelore have a responsibility more like with a child or subordinate? (Not talking about AnthroPCs in general, Hanners and Winslow).

So yeah, I'm interested in where this is going
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Aug 2019, 23:32
I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive. I get why this is: Normally, Jeph uses Hannelore's appearance to emphasise her issues - untidy and sometimes borderline self-harm cropped hair, being thin to the point of looking malnourished, facial expressions that emphasise her unfamiliarity with social interactions and the like. However, Hannelore now has had a breakthrough. This Hannelore is determined to no longer let her mental health issues dominate and define her and, for the first time in a while, we see a Hannelore that is genuinely comfortable in her skin and this manifests itself in an acceptance that she actually is quite beautiful.

Onto the subject of the strip, I agree with Hannelore that "I'm sure it will be fine" are famous last words. However, that doesn't mean that she should be pressing the panic button. This is a situation that requires careful communication, not a full-strength intervention (at least not at this part).

Now... Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Shjade on 06 Aug 2019, 01:29
I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive.

I was just thinking "Wow, comfortable Hanners looks great."

Also that I kinda wish I could pull off wearing that outfit, 'cause it looks super comfy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: SmilingCat on 06 Aug 2019, 01:31
Is there an AI analog for Prozac?

This is actually a really interesting question to me. Humans can and do mitigate their own symptoms of mental or emotional illness with medication that alters their brain chemistry and helps regulate their moods. Presumably, one could do the same for an AI (assuming you understood the underlying code of their personality well enough) with programming, and you could probably do it more accurately and effectively than humans can with medication (which can be hit or miss).

BUT, that would also be altering their core programming, something that is such a big no-no that even spookybot would be unwilling to do so, even when it would help someone. AIs may have to do without anything like antidepressants for purely ethical reasons.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Mr. Doctor on 06 Aug 2019, 03:58
I'm getting the feeling that Hannelore is slowing feeling guilty for bringing Winslow to a journey he most likely wouldn't have chosen for himself.
I wonder how the conversation between the two will be.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 06 Aug 2019, 05:52
I know that it's totally off-topic but, IMO, today's strip is one of the first times in a very long time that Jeph has made Hannelore look attractive.
Thank you; it's not just me then.

Quote from: BenRG
Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
I'm on board with this.  That was my initial reaction as well: "She looks like her mother!  Run for it!"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 06 Aug 2019, 06:58
Yeah, I dunno about asking DORA for AI advice.

Bubbles, maybe. In Hanners' circle of friends...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: rtmq0227 on 06 Aug 2019, 07:06
Quote from: BenRG
Was Dora saying that Hannelore was reminding her of Beatrice at this point? We all grow up to be our parents in some way and, frankly, from whom else would have young Hannelore have learned the 'listen to me and learn your lesson' facial expression and vocal tone?
I'm on board with this.  That was my initial reaction as well: "She looks like her mother!  Run for it!"

She does have "The Voice" after all: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3637
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: eschaton on 06 Aug 2019, 09:36
I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 

He may be a person, but he's an AI, not a human.   Back when he was in his little Ipod body, he was basically exactly the same as this script shows.  He was an unadventurous homebody - kind of a stick in the mud who liked to stay in the apartment and was always the sweaterboy to Pintsize's absolute nightmare.  That's who he is.  That's his personality. 

So now that Winslow has a human-looking pink twink body, rather than being a walking Ipod, all of the sudden his homebodiness is an expression of human mental pathology, rather than just being who he is as a person?  Seems rather narrow minded to me. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 06 Aug 2019, 10:08
I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 
I see what you're saying, but anthropomorphization was the stated goal of whoever designed his current higher end (toes AND nipples!) chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Shjade on 06 Aug 2019, 10:19
It's also not as if the AI of this world have been absent of human-like mental issues up to this point. Bubbles literally compartmentalized something analogous to PTSD. Roko's body issues. Etc.

If we assume nothing about Winslow has changed (I think something has, but that's another topic), it seems to me more likely that this is less deciding he has a problem now because he has a new body, and more that a pre-existing issue has been made more apparent because of the increase in sympathy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: dutchrvl on 06 Aug 2019, 10:32
I think there's a danger here - which is anthropomorphizing Winslow just because he has a humaniform body now. 
I see what you're saying, but anthropomorphization was the stated goal of whoever designed his current higher end (toes AND nipples!) chassis.

I am wondering if this storyline will end with Winslow voluntarily returning to his prior ipod-like body after realizing that he was happier that way and has no particular need or want for a humaniform body. I would be interested in such a storyline, actually, to show that having a humaniform body is not the end-all be-all.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Aug 2019, 11:01
That in turn will raise interesting questions about Hannelore's responsibilities towards him. Are they equals? Or is Hannelore have a responsibility more like with a child or subordinate? (Not talking about AnthroPCs in general, Hanners and Winslow).

Going back to the very beginning, well before the AIERA Hannelore and Winslow's relationship was more peer to peer than the other AI-human companionship contracts.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 06 Aug 2019, 11:07
Great.  This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.  Hannelore for taking Winslow on her journey or Winslow for not appreciating the experience  :roll:

I don't think its even about Winslow not appreciating the impact it's had on Hannelore. Just that by focusing so much on the bad, Winslow has missed so much on the good. Yeah, you're always going to have bad experiences when you travel, but you can't let them alone colour the whole experience. Worst time I ever had travelling was when I was stuck on an overnight ferry crossing caught in a storm. That was basically 12 hours vomiting, but by the same token, during that trip I got to see Snowdonia National Park covered in fog from partway up Mount Snowdon. 12 hours puking versus a spectacular view that could be imagined as something primordial? No contest.

Agree to disagree, I guess? If I knew in advance I'd have to puke for 12 hours to see something, I just *might* pass on seeing the frickin' Island of Atlantis, moreso any view that exists in the real world.

Some people just don't enjoy travelling at all, being intensely uncomfortable not because of the specifics, but because of the fact of travelling alone. I ain't saying Winslow is like that, because he does seem to complain about specific bad things that happened, but it's possible that he isn't wired* for that kind of stuff.

I generally tend to think that if someone doesn't appreciate something (anything, really), insisting that they're just missing the good stuff is failure to appreciate a different perspective. People have tried to guilt me into "enjoying" things on enough occasions that I appreciate Winslow's attitude, even if I see how it can limit his life experience. I don't think anyone has an obligation to expand their horizons, to have "fun" doing any specific thing, or to appreciate anything.

(I do see the potential for the discussion devolving into arguing "who is bad here". I'm just pointing out that Winslow isn't hurting anyone by "not appreciating" being out of his home or out of his comfort zone.)

Incidentally, I wonder how Hannelore missed it if Winslow was as intensely uncomfortable with the travels as the comic seems to imply he was.

* - I wonder if that particular expression carries some baggage in QC's world, what with sapient machines existing and the like.

Probably because she was concentrating on not freaking out while pushing herself to the limits which undoubtedly leads to the accusation that Hannelore should be more sensitive even though Winslow never objected.  Winslow is his own person and could have declined to go on this adventure, but he didn't.  So then the accusation is that Hannelore should've known Winslow would be too loyal to object and should've employed someone else.  Of course if she did Winslow would probably feel bad about being left out which would inevitably lead to accusations that she presumed to know Winslow's feelings and acted without his consent.  And then we have Winslow.  He stuck it out.  He was with Hannelore the whole time and he didn't enjoy it.  He is entitled to his opinion too. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 06 Aug 2019, 11:20
Except Winslow isn't expressing that opinion, he's shutting down and not engaging with Hanners.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 06 Aug 2019, 12:15
Hannelore isn’t a mind reader.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 06 Aug 2019, 12:19
Of course she isn't, but Winslow isn't saying a word, he's just looking at the pigeons outside. And it looks like that might be all he's planning on doing.

Hanners is going to have to talk to Winslow sooner, rather than later, but if he's just going to be looking at pigeons, well there's a limit to how much Hanners or anyone might be able to.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Chalksoul on 06 Aug 2019, 12:23
For me it all seem very weird. A day or two after a long trip taking some time to relax and rewind seem.. healthy? That what I would do and recommend friends to do. And when looking out the window he has a big genuine smile.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Shjade on 06 Aug 2019, 12:29
I'm starting to feel like this is an always-relevant chorus, but:

The comic's story beats take time to develop.

I'm with Chalk on this: it seems a bit early to worry (which isn't unusual for Hannelore, Professional Worrier). I'd probably need a week or so to decompress after a trip like that myself, a week I would most likely spend not leaving my room unless it's necessary.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 06 Aug 2019, 15:51
Also, unrelated, does the waist of his pants say "BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP"?

No, but it should. A friend now has a new embroidery project.

And scary Hanners momface will be somebody's new gravatar in 3.. 2.. 1..
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 06 Aug 2019, 16:12
It looks like it does to me!  (Underwear pants, not trousers pants.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Blackjoker on 06 Aug 2019, 16:50
With Winslow I think part of the issue is just that he has had a lot happen in a short period. He is anxious and also a bit scared. He was exposed to a lot of new things when he traveled with Hannelore, he was there as her friend but I can also understand him feeling afraid or uneasy. Being somewhere relatively safe, somewhere that he doesn't have the outside world invading him (how he seemed to view the situation when travelling) is soothing and he feels safer. There is a risk of him becoming agoraphobic or a shut in. However I should also point out that Winslow was along on the trip out of a kind of obligation to Hannelore. She found adversity caused her to become her better self, or at least make a breakthrough. Winslow found the situation and found himself more afraid afterwards.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 06 Aug 2019, 16:58
When Winslow is more widely traveled, he will come to understand that scorpions just want to feel warm and safe. Just like you!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Aug 2019, 17:58
For me it all seem very weird. A day or two after a long trip taking some time to relax and rewind seem.. healthy? That what I would do and recommend friends to do. And when looking out the window he has a big genuine smile.

Welcome, new person!

That may have been where Dora was coming from. Hannelore's apparently not overcome her worrying.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 06 Aug 2019, 18:13
Oh nooooooooooooo, poor Winslow!!

...I hope he took his keys.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Aug 2019, 19:28
I think he wants normality more than any of the characters and fate constantly presents him the weirdest animal situations.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Shjade on 06 Aug 2019, 19:43
Poor Winslow, he thought he'd signed up to join some nice, normal webcomic.

...

...

Is that even a thing? Do those exist?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: zisraelsen on 06 Aug 2019, 19:58
Yea. Nobody reads them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: andrybak on 06 Aug 2019, 20:01
"This frickin' town." (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3327)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: pendrake on 06 Aug 2019, 20:05
For comic #4063... (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4063)

1. This frickin' town... (3327) (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3327)  (EDIT: Heh, andrybak beat me to it by literal minutes. :roll: )

2. Poor Winslow.  But as soon as he said it, I knew there would be some ungulate waiting for him.  Either that or Samantha with an armload of snakes...

3. And daaaaaang, Fairy Girl looking fine today. 8-)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 06 Aug 2019, 20:27
Poor poor guy.

At least no scorpions.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Fhqwhgads on 06 Aug 2019, 21:04
The moose's hoverboards really make it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: SeattleCrochetWoman on 06 Aug 2019, 21:17
This is shaping up to be another argument as to who is terrible.

I do think that Hannelore might benefit from being more aware of how negatively Winslow viewed and continues to view the whole experience (she was failing to notice his fears when they visited the seabed research base, IIRC). However, on the other hand, Winslow should know enough from her experiences to know that simply hiding from your fear and pain does not help.

All that said, I do not believe that this should be considered even about 'who is terrible' but rather 'how can I help'. Blame is misplaced when there is no obvious way anyone could have foreseen.

Thank you for this. It’s possible for people to not foresee things or even not notice things without being terrible people.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 06 Aug 2019, 21:22


3. And daaaaaang, Fairy Girl looking fine today. 8-)
[/quote] well, we can't expect her to run around in  Christmas attire in August.  It's nice to see she has a varied wardrobe.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: badbum61 on 06 Aug 2019, 21:33
The moose's hoverboards really make it.

Would it be easier/cheaper to buy two hoverboards or one REEEALLY big one?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Aug 2019, 21:34
I don't know if the ones from Mattel will do the job for a reindeer. You might need a Pitbull if you don't want to look like a low-res bojo.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 06 Aug 2019, 22:47
Let's back up a minute.

Winslow's going to visit May, and doesn't expect to encounter any strange people? That seems like setting yourself up for failure.

Not as much as if he'd been on his way to visit Melon, of course, but still...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Raptorofwar on 06 Aug 2019, 22:49
I want this to be the formal introduction to fairy gal.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Aug 2019, 23:26
Like everyone else, I have to say 'Poor Winslow'! However, I literally have a suspension of disbelief failure that he didn't know just how weird Northampton is as a place. I mean, even if you set aside Fairy Girl, he should know enough from just what Hannelore has told him about working at Coffee of Doom to know that the laws of probability are all askew here!

Am I the only one who remembers that Fairy Girl can speak in human? Remember her talking to Emily about whether she can grant wishes? Of course, I recall Claire's reaction so I suppose that it's possible that Emily can talk fairy and Claire was reacting to listening to the two of them tinkle at each other!

2. Poor Winslow.  But as soon as he said it, I knew there would be some ungulate waiting for him.  Either that or Samantha with an armload of snakes...

Just wait; the day isn't over yet and Samantha has got to have some excuse to get back into the story!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 06 Aug 2019, 23:35
He really needs to talk to someone.
Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.
SOMEONE ELSE.

Don't you dare mocking muh boi Pintsize!
But seriously, Pintsize is known to be able to give proper advice. And be it just for Winslow to be less obviously teasable.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2019, 03:15
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'. After that ugly accident at the natural history museum, she quit CoD and became a street performer because life is short and she didn't want to leave her dreams on hold any longer. Faye has supported this new life wholeheartedly and helped her develop her 'fairy talk' language.

Faye is the only one of the early CoD crew who knows what happened to her. I think that Marten and Dora finding out what she has done with herself after getting out of hospital would be a very funny arc!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 07 Aug 2019, 04:54
The moose's hoverboards really make it.
Would it be easier/cheaper to buy two hoverboards or one REEEALLY big one?
Well, now that the reindeer has been trained to use two (this is a feat of epicness all on its own), why would you want to use one?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2019, 04:59
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'. After that ugly accident at the natural history museum, she quit CoD and became a street performer because life is short and she didn't want to leave her dreams on hold any longer. Faye has supported this new life wholeheartedly and helped her develop her 'fairy talk' language.

Faye is the only one of the early CoD crew who knows what happened to her. I think that Marten and Dora finding out what she has done with herself after getting out of hospital would be a very funny arc!

Can't be. Fairy Girl still has both her legs.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Aug 2019, 05:02
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'. After that ugly accident at the natural history museum, she quit CoD and became a street performer because life is short and she didn't want to leave her dreams on hold any longer. Faye has supported this new life wholeheartedly and helped her develop her 'fairy talk' language.

Faye is the only one of the early CoD crew who knows what happened to her. I think that Marten and Dora finding out what she has done with herself after getting out of hospital would be a very funny arc!

She was eaten by an allosaurus.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 07 Aug 2019, 05:06
With Winslow I think part of the issue is just that he has had a lot happen in a short period. He is anxious and also a bit scared. He was exposed to a lot of new things when he traveled with Hannelore, he was there as her friend but I can also understand him feeling afraid or uneasy.
Friend or designated companion to help her navigate life?  She throws him into an environment where both are really out of their comfort zones, he probably moreso than her - see the comment about non-standard recharging - and now he's the one who needs help dealing with the present...  I'm sure he's a little out-of-sorts not only personally but professionally - he's supposed to be helping her and ... isn't.  Poor AIs gonna need some time to sort it all out,  but then he succumbs to Hanners' subtle jibbing about getting on with his life and immediately meets exactly what he doesn't want... 

If AIs need fuses, I'm sure he's gonna need a few replacements.  Maybe Roko can help him sort through his issues?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 07 Aug 2019, 05:10
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'.
I think Pizza Girl is Sara returned, but what do I know?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2019, 05:14
She was eaten by an allosaurus.

This concept would require that 'eaten by an allosaurus' is a humorous (originating from Faye) metaphor for 'An allosaurus skeleton fell on her at the natural history museum'. Hence going to the hospital; those things are only made of carbon fibre but you really don't want to have one fall on you.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: DSL on 07 Aug 2019, 05:39
There's two out of three. Where are the snakes?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2019, 05:40
There's two out of three. Where are the snakes?

Winslow? Meet Miss Samantha Bean.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 07 Aug 2019, 07:14
May meets Fairy Lady should be interesting.

And Spooks.  Spookyay's apparent omniscience comes from being plugged into every data network on the planet.  I figure Fairy's cyberworld footprint is small indeed, like the person with no credit rating good, bad, or indifferent.  That should be an entertaining encounter.  (Although Spooky likes at least two biocritters, so they might make friends with the Urban Cariboo right away. 

"Boo" - Affectionate nickname, particularly in the southern United States.  The reindeer can be Carrie Boo or Kerry Boo, depending on gender.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Theta9 on 07 Aug 2019, 07:20
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'. After that ugly accident at the natural history museum, she quit CoD and became a street performer because life is short and she didn't want to leave her dreams on hold any longer. Faye has supported this new life wholeheartedly and helped her develop her 'fairy talk' language.

Faye is the only one of the early CoD crew who knows what happened to her. I think that Marten and Dora finding out what she has done with herself after getting out of hospital would be a very funny arc!
"Jeph Jacques has confirmed that she has been written out permanently.[7]"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 07 Aug 2019, 07:23
Winslow? Meet Miss Samantha Bean.
They've met - when Sam started doing sprays at UR.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2019, 07:36
My Wish
Fairy Girl is actually Sara McKinney (https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Sara_McKinney), the former CoD barista who was allegedly 'eaten by a Allosaur'. After that ugly accident at the natural history museum, she quit CoD and became a street performer because life is short and she didn't want to leave her dreams on hold any longer. Faye has supported this new life wholeheartedly and helped her develop her 'fairy talk' language.

Faye is the only one of the early CoD crew who knows what happened to her. I think that Marten and Dora finding out what she has done with herself after getting out of hospital would be a very funny arc!

"Jeph Jacques has confirmed that she has been written out permanently.[7]"

I respect Jeph's right to change his mind without notice or justification at any time he wishes!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Stoon on 07 Aug 2019, 07:41
I was trying to remember if Fairy Girl ever said anything besides "La lu lo."  Then I remembered she had a conversation with Emily about fairydom, tricks, and wishes.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 07 Aug 2019, 07:59
Or was that just what Emily wanted to hear, when in fact what she was actually hearing was La Le Lu Li Lo?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 07 Aug 2019, 08:54
I respect Jeph's right to change his mind without notice or justification at any time he wishes!
He is the Creator Deity of the QC Universe - He can raise the dead with a stroke of His brushstylus.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 07 Aug 2019, 12:49
Winslow's face in panel five looks to me a lot like Nick Chopper's face (in his human form) in Skin Horse. Hair's the wrong color and he doesn't have freckles, but his expression is Nick's default, to a tee.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Roborat on 07 Aug 2019, 13:05
I had a feeling this story line was building up to this, when I read yesterdays page.  Poor Winslow.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 07 Aug 2019, 13:17
He said he's permanently written out someone named "Sarah".  As Allosaurus Lady was Sara, there's hope she may return one day!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Aug 2019, 14:25
Don't ask for Sara to return. Because she'll be riding her pet allosaurus.

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: SeaWoodStage on 07 Aug 2019, 17:44
Hannelore has always been one of my favourite characters, but I'm not liking her much at the moment. Winslow is clearly distraught, and all she's doing is nudging him into immediate action. I think Dora was right. Let him chill for a while!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Aug 2019, 17:58
Don't ask for Sara to return. Because she'll be riding her pet allosaurus.
Fun fact: The reindeer is in fact an allosaurus in disguise.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2019, 18:28
The most unexpected thing about today's strip was Bubbles.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 07 Aug 2019, 18:42
This has gone much better than the hypothetical "Bubbles tries to ride a reindeer" scenario earlier.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cesium133 on 07 Aug 2019, 19:07
Considering the syllable structure of Fairy Girl's language (CV, where C=L and V can be any of the five common English vowels), there are five possible syllables in her language. That means that each syllable can contain a little over two bits of information, or a bit less than the information contained in the average letter in English text (https://people.seas.harvard.edu/~jones/cscie129/papers/stanford_info_paper/entropy_of_english_9.htm). Incidentally, a group at the University of Lyon in France (http://www.ddl.ish-lyon.cnrs.fr/fulltext/pellegrino/Pellegrino_to%20appear_Language.pdf) did a study where they looked at the spoken information density of various languages. They found that languages where less information was carried per syllable (for example, Japanese compared to Mandarin Chinese), the languages with less information per syllable were spoken faster, meaning the rate of information in the speech was about the same. Which means that Fairy Girl is probably speaking 'lo la lu le le' pretty fast.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Noooooooob1111 on 07 Aug 2019, 19:31
I made an account just to say that I would also love to see the Fairy Girl become a part of the main cast, she seems genuinely kind from what we've seen of her, and probably really fun to be around. Super duper weird... but then again so is nearly everyone else in the cast.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2019, 19:50
Welcome, new person!

I think that is a good description of her.

Her language appears to be tonal so there is a bit more information in each syllable than there would otherwise be.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 07 Aug 2019, 20:02
Bubbles: "I'M TAKING THIS HOME WITH ME."

Faye: "NO!"

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Case on 07 Aug 2019, 20:35
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 07 Aug 2019, 22:40
I made an account just to say that I would also love to see the Fairy Girl become a part of the main cast, she seems genuinely kind from what we've seen of her, and probably really fun to be around. Super duper weird... but then again so is nearly everyone else in the cast.

Perhaps she could replace Pizza Girl.  We  haven't seen her in awhile...  or maybe she is Fairy Girl.  No couldn't be.  Faye would've recognized her. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Aug 2019, 23:28
I think that we've finally found out what Bubbles sees in Faye on a physical level: She's really into things that are soft and warm and cuddly (which pretty much is Faye). After learning to handle Faye's personality there was literally no downside to the relationship!

I love the effort Jeph made to turn Fairy Girl's little noises into a structured language of some sort. It makes me honestly think that she's actually decided to become a fairy down to creating her own way of expressing herself!

It's also wonderfully in-character for Winslow to apologise to Fairy Girl; like Momo, I think he permanently lives in terror of breaching some unspoken social rule and, in his case, maybe getting Hannelore in trouble.

Finally, I'm kind of starting to see the advertising angle here:

Found a Synthetic broken down in the street?
Think it may need fixing?

Then Drag 'Em To...


Union Robotics!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Aug 2019, 23:36
Which raises an interesting point. Union Robotics is already catching on to the point that a fairy girl who sees a crashed synthetic on the street thinks of UR first. That's unusually fast for a startup but they deserve it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: ihaveavoice on 08 Aug 2019, 00:33
There's a certain sort of meta-linguistic sense in the idea of Faye speaking fae.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Aug 2019, 01:36
Anyone want to know how Fairy Girl really explained the situation to Faye? The answer is in this strip (https://questionablecontent.net/2423)!

On the flip side, I've got to say that this strip always made me feel better about Fairy Girl. Anyone who is that focussed on bringing the sort of joy that we see on Emily's face in panels 7 & 8 is a good egg in my book!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 08 Aug 2019, 04:54
Anyone who is that focussed on bringing the sort of joy that we see on Emily's face in panels 7 & 8 is a good egg in my book!
Yes, though Claire is clearly not amused at FGs antics even if Emily is delighted.  I'm not against FGs little hobby - heck, we should all have a hobby that makes others happy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cesium133 on 08 Aug 2019, 05:04
Anyone want to know how Fairy Girl really explained the situation to Faye? The answer is in this strip (https://questionablecontent.net/2423)!
I'm still of the opinion that Fairy Girl is still saying 'lo le la lu lu', but Emily is the only person (other than Faye, apparently) who can understand her.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: dutchrvl on 08 Aug 2019, 05:31
Is it me or does Faye look particularly buxom in the last panel? Marigold-level pretty much...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 08 Aug 2019, 09:07
Yes.  Compare panel 3 of 4053.  But really, Faye bust size has varied quite a bit across the strips life, so it's not that unusual.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 08 Aug 2019, 09:47
That reindeer is surprisingly cool about being held. Bubbles has a really soothing 'bedside manner'?

Fairy Girl's body language makes her speech superfluous.  (  and when she claims she's not a fairy she's obviously lying  )
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Somebody on 08 Aug 2019, 19:11
New strip, in which Miss Ellicot-Chatham is once more sorely vexed.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 08 Aug 2019, 19:13
*shudders visibly*

And THAT is why I don't like coffee shop coffee. You have no idea how well maintained the equipment is.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 08 Aug 2019, 19:57
But the....FLAVOUR!!!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: shanejayell on 08 Aug 2019, 20:32
But the....FLAVOUR!!!

But... the possible illness!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Raptorofwar on 08 Aug 2019, 20:56
Someone reminded me of the girl that was eaten by an Allosaurus.
Jeph, draw an Allosaurus. You'd BETTER put an Allosaurus in one of your comics.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 08 Aug 2019, 21:02
But the....FLAVOUR!!!

But... the possible illness!
Naw, the steam's hot enough to scald the bacteria to death.  If it can survive that, it's not going to give a rat's about soap.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 08 Aug 2019, 21:10
Which raises an interesting point. Union Robotics is already catching on to the point that a fairy girl who sees a crashed synthetic on the street thinks of UR first. That's unusually fast for a startup but they deserve it.
Or maybe they were nearby and she saw the sign. I can't imagine she'd want to be dragging him any further than necessary.

On today's strip - I'm somewhat surprised that Dora told the truth instead of saying "oh, uh... a couple of weeks ago. Definitely."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: hedgie on 08 Aug 2019, 22:08
Someone reminded me of the girl that was eaten by an Allosaurus.
Jeph, draw an Allosaurus. You'd BETTER put an Allosaurus in one of your comics.

He did, but I believe that strip is still Patreon-only.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Aug 2019, 23:23
Wow! Hannelore has come a long way! Instead of freaking out, she's just plain annoyed at how irresponsible Dora is being! It is irresponsibility too; not just because of customer and staff health either. It only takes one decent Public Health Department inspection and Dora is suddenly looking for a new business!

This has been Dora's vice for a while, though. All throughout the history of Questionable Content, there has been an indication that Dora simply isn't a great fan of doing much; she usually has to be badgered into even the smallest and most necessary tasks. I don't think it's laziness; it's more of a case that, if she doesn't want to do something, she won't do it and retroactively find excuses for not doing so.

On today's strip - I'm somewhat surprised that Dora told the truth instead of saying "oh, uh... a couple of weeks ago. Definitely."

I don't  think that Dora trusts her ability to lie her way past Hannelore's hygiene sixth sense. Besides, lying would require that there is a problem for her to lie about; I genuinely think that she'd convinced herself keeping the equipment clean isn't a problem.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 08 Aug 2019, 23:57
But the....FLAVOUR!!!

But... the possible illness!

What germs or bacteria could survive boiling hot water?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Aug 2019, 00:07
But the....FLAVOUR!!!

But... the possible illness!

What germs or bacteria could survive boiling hot water?

Some bacteria love boiling water as a breeding environment. They're not the sort of thing that you'd be expecting to find in a small-town independent coffee shop unless Dora had been immersing her equipment in geothermal pools at Yellowstone.

No, it isn't the stuff in the pot that's the problem. It's the stuff that bred in the mess on the outside, didn't get boiled and gets transferred over when you're pouring into the customer's cup.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: dutchrvl on 09 Aug 2019, 05:29
*shudders visibly*

And THAT is why I don't like coffee shop coffee. You have no idea how well maintained the equipment is.

Meh, my experience is that the vast majority of coffee shops take good care of their equipment, including cleaning. If anything because it increases the life span of the equipment.

Frankly I am more worried about the coffee-making instruments in my own apartment  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 09 Aug 2019, 05:35
No, it isn't the stuff in the pot that's the problem. It's the stuff that bred in the mess on the outside, didn't get boiled and gets transferred over when you're pouring into the customer's cup.
Thank you for giving me yet another reason to never drink coffee.  (Yes, I'm one of those people.) 

I like the smell in small doses, but the taste is nasty.  I don't like bitter flavors, and never have.  I've trained myself to like broccoli, and the occasional raw brussel sprout (cooked activates my texture phobia), but that's about it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: oddtail on 09 Aug 2019, 05:35
Some bacteria love boiling water as a breeding environment. They're not the sort of thing that you'd be expecting to find in a small-town independent coffee shop unless Dora had been immersing her equipment in geothermal pools at Yellowstone.

I'm aware of bacteria that can survive boiling water, even for extended periods of time, but as a living environment where they can actually thrive? I'd be thankful for a citation or an example of a bacteria species. Bacteria usually survive harsh conditions by forming spores, I'd be suprised (though not shocked) to find one that can actually conduct metabollic processes "business as usual" style in 100 degrees C.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 09 Aug 2019, 05:38
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophile    They can live in garden-variety water heaters...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: dutchrvl on 09 Aug 2019, 05:49
No, it isn't the stuff in the pot that's the problem. It's the stuff that bred in the mess on the outside, didn't get boiled and gets transferred over when you're pouring into the customer's cup.
Thank you for giving me yet another reason to never drink coffee.  (Yes, I'm one of those people.) 

I like the smell in small doses, but the taste is nasty.  I don't like bitter flavors, and never have.  I've trained myself to like broccoli, and the occasional raw brussel sprout (cooked activates my texture phobia), but that's about it.

Ehm, there is really no need for coffee to be that bitter anyway, and with milk and/or sugar it'll be pretty much completely gone.
I love coffee, but I am like you when it comes to bitter tastes; okay with broccoli, strong dislike for brussel sprouts, can barely stand arugula, etc.

Perhaps it's just the specific coffee taste and not any bitterness that you dislike?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 09 Aug 2019, 05:55
But the....FLAVOUR!!!

But... the possible illness!
Do your shoes stick to the bathroom floor?
If 'yes', dump it and run.

EDIT

*snip*
I'm aware of bacteria that can survive boiling water, even for extended periods of time, but as a living environment where they can actually thrive? I'd be thankful for a citation or an example of a bacteria species. Bacteria usually survive harsh conditions by forming spores, I'd be suprised (though not shocked) to find one that can actually conduct metabollic processes "business as usual" style in 100 degrees C.
Many gram negative strains are capable of forming what is called a 'capsule' which protects a portion of the bacterium from stressful environments (like boiling water or dehydration). Once the capsule reaches ideal conditions (like your mouth or bloodstream), it sheds the capsule to begin proliferating once more.
One must rupture the capsule to prevent infection. This is usually done throw a combination of heat and pressure and is the exact reason why jelly is made with a pressure-cooker and hospitals use autoclaves.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Gyrre on 09 Aug 2019, 06:01
Quote from: Wingy link=topic=34473
.msg1431457#msg1431457 date=1565354110
No, it isn't the stuff in the pot that's the problem. It's the stuff that bred in the mess on the outside, didn't get boiled and gets transferred over when you're pouring into the customer's cup.
Thank you for giving me yet another reason to never drink coffee.  (Yes, I'm one of those people.) 

I like the smell in small doses, but the taste is nasty.  I don't like bitter flavors, and never have.  I've trained myself to like broccoli, and the occasional raw brussel sprout (cooked activates my texture phobia), but that's about it.

The trick to broccoli is to either eat it raw and dipped in ranch or steamed and drowned in cheese/cheese sauce. Brussels sprouts are best sautéed in olive oil with some garlic. But --if you insist on eating them raw -- a bit of nutmeg helps reduce the bitterness.

I also hate all things bitter (beer is the actual worst for me).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: oddtail on 09 Aug 2019, 06:02
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophile    They can live in garden-variety water heaters...

Thanks for the link! Didn't even think to look it up using this term. I'm a dumbass.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: TheEvilDog on 09 Aug 2019, 06:06
Regarding Brussel Sprouts - cut off the hard stem and make an X incision, doesn't have be too deep. Then steam them for a few minutes, then roast them with a little sunflower oil, chopped red onion and/or bacon (that's optional).

Far nicer than just boiling them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: cybersmurf on 09 Aug 2019, 06:34
I'm getting a bit of "as much as we try to avoid it, we become our parents" may be happening to Hanners...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 09 Aug 2019, 07:00
I'm getting a bit of "as much as we try to avoid it, we become our parents" may be happening to Hanners...

This is nothing new for Hannelore.  She always worries about this stuff, but not as much or with extreme reactions since her journey of self discovery.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: OldGoat on 09 Aug 2019, 09:54
What germs or bacteria could survive boiling hot water?

There's those living around deep-sea hydrothermal "smoker" vents.  The water's scalding hot, it just doesn't boil due to the pressure.  (However, those guys might not survive up here without that intense pressure to hold their little germy guts in.)

(https://oceana.org/sites/default/files/styles/lightbox_full/public/_22.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: teh pwn queen on 09 Aug 2019, 15:11
OK, kinda in love with Dora's "Aw heck" t-shirt and would absolutely buy it if it was in Jeph's merch store. Bring that fantasy into the RL, pl0x.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Dandi Andi on 10 Aug 2019, 03:31
As someone who runs a coffee shop and has taken the requisite courses on food safety, this strip makes me cringe.

First of all, there are microbes that survive just fine in boiling water, but they aren't generally the ones you need to worry about causing infectious diseases. The ones that can live in those environments usually need to live in those environments. The ones we do need to worry about mostly die off at temperatures above 140of. A decent batch brewer will hold 195-205 brewing temperature for 4-6 minutes. Mr. Coffee won't do it, but something from Bunn or Fetco definitely will. Dora's customers probably won't get sick. Probably.

As Gyrre pointed out, many pathogens can create spores or capsules to protect part of the colony in the case of boiling water. This is usually not a problem in food service because the combination of high heat in the preparation process and the acid in our stomachs kill enough of the pathogens that our immune system can easily deal with the rest. But immune compromised people may not be so lucky. That's why washing and sanitizing are so important. Washing removes soils where pathogens hide and a chemical sanitizer (we use quaternary ammonium) kills 99.9% of surface microbes. That's enough to keep people safe when drinking my coffee. Sterilization (99.99% reduction of microbes you get from an autoclave) isn't generally necessary. I wouldn't trust equipment that clearly hasn't been cleaned, though, no matter how hot the brewer gets.

But the worst part for me is imagining what that batch drip must taste like. A lot of that brown muck is going to be oil and that oil is going to be rancid. That brew basket is going to give the coffee a world of bitter, unpleasant flavors. It doesn't matter what she's roasting, all people are going to taste is that basket. If she's not going to take her brewing seriously, she might as well save some money and throw some Folgers in there instead.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: brasca on 10 Aug 2019, 07:48
Good points pecoros7.  My experience with brewing coffee is from the perspective of a convenience store worker so it’s not all that sophisticated, but the problem is more about taste than cleanliness.  That being said there are people who buy coffee beans that were crapped out of cats so Dora might be right.  Some people will buy anything that sounds sophisticated. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: DaiJB on 10 Aug 2019, 08:16
He really needs to talk to someone.

Well, Pintsize likely knows he's back. I expect he'll drop in.

Knowing Pintsize, that could be quite literal...

Winslow: "Exactly how long have you been duct-taped to our ceiling?!?"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 11 Aug 2019, 11:55
Perhaps it's just the specific coffee taste and not any bitterness that you dislike?
I like the smell most of the time.  It's the taste, which I perceive as bitter no matter how amended.  Coffee flavored candies and tira misu (however that's spelled) I find vile.  Just one of my particular foibles I suppose.  My wife drinks coffee regularly, but I don't hold that against her until she has to buy it instead of make it at home (I object to the price paid compared to home brewed).

As far as vegetables go, I was raised eating many home-grown veggies raw.  My parents tried to get us to eat cooked veggies, and that's when I discovered I can't stand the slimey-in-my-mouth feel, no matter what the taste (my mother has many strong points; cooking is not one of them).  So I've gotten good at steaming and substituting and making two versions (with and without veggies) of many dishes, and I really don't mind.  But when I go to a restaurant, I'm a fussy eater, for sure.  So I'll eat things like zucchini (well, small amounts anyway) raw, but as soon as it starts to wilt in some dish, fuhg-ged-aboud-it!  Like I said - just one of my foibles.  Y'all can have my share, I'd really rather starve.  Really.  It saves tossing my cookies at the table, or seriously wanting to.

Beer is the same thing - I liked Bubbles description of IPAs.  Between the bitter from the hops and the fact that I've too many alcoholics in my extended family, plus the fact that I apparently have the gene that allows one to metabolize alcohol at high speed so I don't ever "feel the buzz", well I just avoid alcohol.  I'll have a glass of wine with a meal once in a great while, but that's more about toasting and being sociable than it is about enjoying the liquor.  It's way cheaper to eat out without paying that tab too.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Tova on 11 Aug 2019, 15:40
Perhaps it's just the specific coffee taste and not any bitterness that you dislike?
I like the smell most of the time.  It's the taste, which I perceive as bitter no matter how amended.  Coffee flavored candies and tira misu (however that's spelled) I find vile.  Just one of my particular foibles I suppose.  My wife drinks coffee regularly, but I don't hold that against her until she has to buy it instead of make it at home (I object to the price paid compared to home brewed).

I was just the same a few years back. This might sound odd, but I decided one day to acquire a taste for coffee. Started with mochas, drank them for a while (couldn't stand them at first). Then as they became tolerable, moved to lattes with sugar, then long blacks with sugar, then without, then finally espresso.

An interesting side effect was that there are a few things I used to hate which I now like, including gin and olives.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 11 Aug 2019, 17:53
OK, kinda in love with Dora's "Aw heck" t-shirt and would absolutely buy it if it was in Jeph's merch store. Bring that fantasy into the RL, pl0x.
Seems pretty similar to the one tee public is selling. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Penquin47 on 12 Aug 2019, 00:38
There are very very few vegetables I'd rather eat cooked than raw.  Some of my absolute favorite raw vegetables become inedible when cooked (tomatoes - tomato sauce is fine, but cooked chunks of tomato are gross - cauliflower, spinach).  I haven't tried coffee in years, and have no desire to take it up... tea and hot chocolate fulfill my Hot Drinks Need, soda fulfills my Caffeination need (with bonus carbonation!).  Coffee-flavored things, though?  Meh.  No thanks.  Cider good, beer bad has been my experience.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Tova on 12 Aug 2019, 06:26
soda fulfills my Caffeination need (with bonus carbonation!).

That was in fact a big motivating factor behind taking up coffee. Carbonated sodas are pretty bad for your teeth - even the sugar free ones. And the less said about the sugary ones the better.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4061-4065 (5-9 August 2019)
Post by: Wingy on 13 Aug 2019, 06:02
soda fulfills my Caffeination need (with bonus carbonation!).

I don't have a caffienation need - it doesn't affect me for some reason.  Mountain Dew right before bed - no problem!  I'll still zonk out within a few minutes.  I think this is mostly because I start my day with a stretch/exercise routine, so I'm already revved up before I head for work.

That was in fact a big motivating factor behind taking up coffee. Carbonated sodas are pretty bad for your teeth - even the sugar free ones. And the less said about the sugary ones the better.

I actually prefer the real sugar sodas, and I drink about 1-2 a month.  The HFCS in soda runs right through my system: drink one and within 30 minutes, it's urgently time for a break.  Real sugar soda doesn't do that to me; go figure.  Once I figured that out, I started compensating by getting just water when I'm in an area/situation with little/no bathroom access.  I might have one HFCS-soda a month; probably less.  I only buy real sugar soda for me for home, and I'll take one of my stash with me if we're going to party at someone elses' place.  The number of people willing to swipe a Throwback Mountain Dew - even when labelled with my name and a whole cooler full of other flavors is freely available - is way too high, so I have to keep a close eye on it...   :-\  :x  :?  :-o :police: