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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Gyrre on 29 Mar 2020, 08:56

Title: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 29 Mar 2020, 08:56
Quetzacoatlus was an Azhdarchid pterosaur that was the size of a giraffe and evidence on fossil specimens suggest it not only spent a significant amount of its time on the ground but could also gallop in addition to being able to fly.
For reference;
(click to show/hide)
T-rex
(click to show/hide)
Quetzalcoatlus
(click to show/hide)
Gorgonops

EDIT: Added spoiler tags to the reference pics of each and swapped a reference pic to be merciful to mobile users.
EDIT 2: Names added under spoiler tags. Also, wrong member of Inostrancevia initially pictured. Image corrected to a gorgonops.

EDIT 3: Oh right, the shipper bait.
Think Elliot will ever fess up to Clinton or Brun?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Autistic Vulture on 29 Mar 2020, 12:37
EDIT 3: Oh right, the shipper bait.
Think Elliot will ever fess up to Clinton or Brun?

Ever is a long time.  It could be three, four (comic) years down the road, knowing Elliot.  Remember how much difficulty he had with Padma (although most of that was before Marten made his first trip to The Secret Bakery).

And I didn't vote because I'm incapable of outrunning a baby.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 29 Mar 2020, 12:43
Bubbles. It would be scary to be chased by Bubbles.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: DashaBlade on 29 Mar 2020, 13:45
Gorgonops looks like half cat, half alligator.  Which is terrifying to me because I've been chased by a 'gator and I've been bitten twice by angry cats (hard enough to require a doctor visit).

I voted "Something else" but really it's more of an "all of the above, plus also a gator or a cat."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 29 Mar 2020, 15:16
Been watching a playthrough of Resident Evil 3 Remake. In light of this, the T-103 Tyrant BOW is now officially my nightmare fuel to run away from.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 29 Mar 2020, 17:32
Bubbles. It would be scary to be chased by Bubbles.

Sorry, I had low blood sugar when I made the poll and didn't word it very well. Hence the 3 edits.

I should have just left it between the T-rex and the Quetzalcoatlus.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 29 Mar 2020, 18:35
New strip up!

I think EVERYONE hated Highschool. Even the popular kids.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Wombat on 29 Mar 2020, 20:55
I actually liked high school for the most part, despite having a number of markers that would probably lead one to suspect otherwise (fat, queer, introverted, mentally ill, etc).

Middle school, on the other hand... (I was once working with some middle schoolers who asked me if I had liked middle school, and I replied "Nobody *likes* middle school. Which is probably also not universally true, and also probably not the best thing to say to kids who are near the beginning of their middle school experience.)

How old is Clinton supposed to be? I get the feeling he was older than me when first introduced and younger than me now, but I can't remember where he's at, exactly.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 29 Mar 2020, 20:59
Hell is other middle schoolers.

Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure nobody likes middle school. I sure as hell didn't.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Mar 2020, 22:19
Wasn't Clinton in college when first introduced? The Awesome April Arcus timeline might shed some light from that point.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: hakko504 on 29 Mar 2020, 23:17
How old is Clinton supposed to be? I get the feeling he was older than me when first introduced and younger than me now, but I can't remember where he's at, exactly.
At the time of Claire's introduction he was 21. 2281 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2281). We've had a (two?) timeskip(s) since then so he's probably ~22 by now.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 29 Mar 2020, 23:20
I think that we all did stupid and frankly shitty things when we're in high school. When you're in your early teenage years, you're desperate to find your place in your peer group (and a peer group in the first place). Lacking an adult's good sense, you tend to do whatever it takes to be accepted and that can lead you to bad places that, looking back, makes you realise that you were never quite the good guy in your story that you liked to imagine you were.

Also, Clinton? That thing with terminology is mostly a typical technical person's react to laypersons acting as if they know what they're talking about when they don't.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: DaiJB on 30 Mar 2020, 02:41
Just about anything extinct that was aquatic - you can't see 'em coming and I am an awkward, splashy, terrible swimmer...

edit: Just where are Elliot and Clinton going?  Are they taking the long way home?  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 30 Mar 2020, 07:01
Hell is other middle schoolers.

Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure nobody likes middle school. I sure as hell didn't.
Ours was pretty bad.

I've seen two suggested rearrangements for how the grades are split up.
1) Add 4th & 5th along with 6th grade to make up middle school while adding 7th to high school.
2) Keep 6th as part of elementary school and make middle school 7th, 8th, and 9th grades, while 10th, 11th, and 12th remain high school.

Not sure which I like the idea of more.

Just about anything extinct that was aquatic - you can't see 'em coming and I am an awkward, splashy, terrible swimmer...
[Snip]
Oh, good point. And here I was just thinking in terms of running away from something.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: oddtail on 30 Mar 2020, 07:29
I'll never understand why "High School is terrible" is so prevalent in Western media (and, it seems, in memories of people who went to HS in Western countries).

Give me High School over ANY part of my education, save perhaps university, any day. I didn't even really have any friends in High School, compared to all other schools I went to. It was still infinitely better. Elementary school, on the other hand? THAT was Hell. Small kids are little monsters, with virtually no exceptions. A child is functionally a psychopath minus the intelligence and the life experience. And they get away with enough that they don't have to limit their worst impulses in any way.

Older teenagers can be bad, but they're already a close approximation of an adult. Even when they're shitty to each other, they have some social impulse and a conscience.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 30 Mar 2020, 08:11
Gorgonops looks like half cat, half alligator.  Which is terrifying to me because I've been chased by a 'gator and I've been bitten twice by angry cats (hard enough to require a doctor visit).

I voted "Something else" but really it's more of an "all of the above, plus also a gator or a cat."

Kaprosuchus did cross my mind, but low blood sugar. So I went with gorgonops.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 30 Mar 2020, 08:45
Ah yes, elementary school. The principal lectured me that he had no obligation to intervene for my safety because it was all training in real life. Funny thing, in the many decades since leaving I have never once been assaulted in a restroom. Perhaps it was not realistic training after all.

I enjoyed reading Lord of the Flies. It was such a relief to see someone tell the truth.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 30 Mar 2020, 09:34
Middle school, on the other hand... (I was once working with some middle schoolers who asked me if I had liked middle school, and I replied "Nobody *likes* middle school. Which is probably also not universally true, and also probably not the best thing to say to kids who are near the beginning of their middle school experience.)

"Junior high school" as we called it, is the deepest pit of hell.

Clinton's "It's an ongoing process" reminds me of something a friend said on Facebook some time ago: "Unfucking yourself is a life-long process."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Autistic Vulture on 30 Mar 2020, 10:41
2) Keep 6th as part of elementary school and make middle school 7th, 8th, and 9th grades, while 10th, 11th, and 12th remain high school.

This used to be the arrangement in my province, except 7-9 was called junior high.  (Grade 9 is now part of high school.)

Not that it mattered to me; my hometown is small enough that K-12 are in one building.  Being an undiagnosed autistic in the same general group of people for 13 years was torture.

Also to note - my mother was a substitute teacher for most of that time.  Junior high was bad enough that even though the school had a long roster of substitutes, only my mother and a former vice-principal were willing to do junior high.  It was known not to screw with my mother, ever.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Penquin47 on 30 Mar 2020, 12:47
Shortly after I left, my high school had grown so much that they took over the middle school next door and isolated all of 9th grade there, except for things like band and sports.  9th grade is such a *weird* time for most kids.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 30 Mar 2020, 12:57
2) Keep 6th as part of elementary school and make middle school 7th, 8th, and 9th grades, while 10th, 11th, and 12th remain high school.

This used to be the arrangement in my province, except 7-9 was called junior high.  (Grade 9 is now part of high school.)
I went to school in California and Washington, and every school system I was in used a 6/3/3 division of grades. Elementary was K-6, junior high was 7-9 (though 9th-graders were still called "freshmen"), and high school 10-12.

A couple of years ago I drove a bus for the Forest Grove/Cornelius district here in Oregon, where it seems to be elementary school for K-4, with grades 5-6 "upper elementary", 7-8 "middle school", and 9-12 "high school".
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: notStanley on 30 Mar 2020, 13:06
"bits and bytes"  --  My first IT job was writing business applications in Assembler on IBM mainframes.  Then they started using Cobol.  Those fools used THREE BYTES for a literal "yes" or "no " flag, instead of fitting 8 bit level flags into a single byte.  On a machine with 512KB RAM (yes Kilo, not Mega or Giga, and Tera was not even being used in SciFi yet), that adds up.  As well as the CPU overhead of invoking micro-code for string compares vs a single clock cycle for a native binary test.  <huf> <huf> <rant /off>
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 30 Mar 2020, 20:02
New Comic up.

Oh poor Elliot.  Wonder if he'll run back to Clinton's or...?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 30 Mar 2020, 20:20
Renee accidentally jinxed him twice over.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: DaiJB on 30 Mar 2020, 21:14
"Chekhov's Skunk" - Dammit, Jeph already said what immediately came to my mind!  :laugh:
 
That's OK, I'm sure Clinton's mother will be happy to oblige with a tomato juice bath - and with the whole Clinton/Elliot shipping thing , plus her own proclivity for younger men, it's pretty easy to see that this is going to be the most embarrassing night of Clinton's life  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 30 Mar 2020, 23:12
Okay, here's my interpretation: The skunk is symbolic, in meta terms. As the strip title says, Elliot has blown it by missing several opportunities to get closer to Clinton. Being skunked and thus not able to quickly revisit those opportunities is Jeph's way of emphasising that there is no going back for now.
Title: Some people have the strangest last words;
Post by: TorporChambre on 31 Mar 2020, 00:59
If it's extinct, it can't chase me.
That's OK, I'm sure Clinton's mother will be happy to oblige with a tomato juice bath - and with the whole Clinton/Elliot shipping thing , plus her own proclivity for younger men, it's pretty easy to see that this is going to be the most embarrassing night of Clinton's life  :-D
Connaissais! (Reviendraient vers Octaviorum, Mme auront apprécié l'odeur;) c'est de fragrances meilleures.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Cornelius on 31 Mar 2020, 01:20
Connaissais! (Lorsque reviendraient vers Octaviorum, Mme auront apprécié l'odeur;) Cette est de meilleures fragrances.
Anyone else who can't exactly make heads or tails on that french? I mean, I speak french on a daily professional basis, but really... With all due respect, but the ungrammaticality of that phrase is grating.

Edited to include the quote.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 10:56
Connaissais! (Lorsque reviendraient vers Octaviorum, Mme auront apprécié l'odeur;) Cette est de meilleures fragrances.
Anyone else who can't exactly make heads or tails on that french? I mean, I speak french on a daily professional basis, but really... With all due respect, but the ungrammaticality of that phrase is grating.

Edited to include the quote.
Probably why they said "Pardon my French"  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 10:58
Quetzacoatlus was an Azhdarchid pterosaur that was the size of a giraffe and evidence on fossil specimens suggest it not only spent a significant amount of its time on the ground but could also gallop in addition to being able to fly.


Q (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084556/) (1982)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Cornelius on 31 Mar 2020, 11:25
Connaissais! (Lorsque reviendraient vers Octaviorum, Mme auront apprécié l'odeur;) Cette est de meilleures fragrances.
Anyone else who can't exactly make heads or tails on that french? I mean, I speak french on a daily professional basis, but really... With all due respect, but the ungrammaticality of that phrase is grating.

Edited to include the quote.
Probably why they said "Pardon my French"  :-D
Afterwards. But appreciated.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 11:44
Probably why they said "Pardon my French"  :-D
Afterwards. But appreciated.
I always say "...if you'll pardon my French" whenever I use a phrase such as coup d'etat or raison d'etre.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 31 Mar 2020, 11:47
...That's OK, I'm sure Clinton's mother will be happy to oblige with a tomato juice bath - and with the whole Clinton/Elliot shipping thing , plus her own proclivity for younger men, it's pretty easy to see that this is going to be the most embarrassing night of Clinton's life  :-D

Somehow Clinton will manage to get skunked too in a display of bro solidarity.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 31 Mar 2020, 11:56
I always say "...if you'll pardon my French" whenever I use a phrase such as coup d'etat or raison d'etre.

In my experience, the phrase is more often associated with the use of four-letter Anglo-Saxon.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 31 Mar 2020, 12:22
Hell is other middle schoolers.

Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure nobody likes middle school. I sure as hell didn't.
Ours was pretty bad.

I've seen two suggested rearrangements for how the grades are split up.
1) Add 4th & 5th along with 6th grade to make up middle school while adding 7th to high school.
2) Keep 6th as part of elementary school and make middle school 7th, 8th, and 9th grades, while 10th, 11th, and 12th remain high school.

Not sure which I like the idea of more.
I don't think there's any arrangement that would make it better. They're just at the age where they're old enough to be capable of doing horrible things, but too young to be socialized into behaving like a civilized human being.

For what it's worth, my school was K-6 elementary school, 7-8 junior high (at the high school but in a separate building), and 9-12 high school.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 12:53
I always say "...if you'll pardon my French" whenever I use a phrase such as coup d'etat or raison d'etre.

In my experience, the phrase is more often associated with the use of four-letter Anglo-Saxon.
I'm aware of that; that's the joke - that I associate it with actual French rather than Anglo-Saxon.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 31 Mar 2020, 13:24
I always say "...if you'll pardon my French" whenever I use a phrase such as coup d'etat or raison d'etre.

In my experience, the phrase is more often associated with the use of four-letter Anglo-Saxon.
I'm aware of that; that's the joke - that I associate it with actual French rather than Anglo-Saxon.

Explaining the joke makes it funnier. This is just a hard fact of the universe.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 13:34
Also I stole it ("...if you'll pardon my French") from Neil Gaiman, who used it in the story "Keepsakes and Treasures" (in the collection Fragile Things).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 31 Mar 2020, 15:12
I'm appreciating just how well written the Faye/Bubbles storyline was.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 31 Mar 2020, 15:35
I'm appreciating just how well written the Faye/Bubbles storyline was.
Yeah, people were still denying the inevitable right until the strip where they kissed for the first time even as other people had metaphorically already ordered gift baskets, set up the champagne glass pyramid, and hung the Arbor Day banner.

This time it’s more a question of who’s going to be more surprised by the first kiss, Elliot, Clinton, or Brun…
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 31 Mar 2020, 16:50
Yes, but not just that. In that storyline, Jeph was able to develop multiple story threads at the same time and express those through Faye's and Bubbles' developing relationship. Faye's battles with alcoholism and intimacy, Bubbles' locked off memories and dealing with Corpse Witch, fending off Basilisk.

Whereas here, if you're not entertained by the shipping storyline, there's not much else going on.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 31 Mar 2020, 17:17
Whereas here, if you're not entertained by the shipping storyline, there's not much else going on.


(https://blog.codinghorror.com/content/images/2015/04/are-you-not-entertained.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 31 Mar 2020, 17:56
Well, if you’re tired of that ship, you can try the one in the new update on for size... :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 31 Mar 2020, 18:04
Maybe QC is not for me after all, I dunno.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 31 Mar 2020, 19:13
New strip.

Can robots turn their noses off, or are they stuck with skunk stink?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Autistic Vulture on 31 Mar 2020, 19:24
New strip.

Can robots turn their noses off, or are they stuck with skunk stink?

Probably depends on the model.  Most likely can, but a May or other low-end make might be stuck.

Yes, but not just that. In that storyline, Jeph was able to develop multiple story threads at the same time and express those through Faye's and Bubbles' developing relationship. Faye's battles with alcoholism and intimacy, Bubbles' locked off memories and dealing with Corpse Witch, fending off Basilisk.

Whereas here, if you're not entertained by the shipping storyline, there's not much else going on.

The storyline needed something to happen as it had been gone for nine months.  There are twists that could happen.  Thing is, to be honest, it's difficult to see a pairing that would end in a happy long-term relationship.  But maybe that's the ultra-cynic in me.  (The ultra-cynic in me also thinks that Jeph doesn't know how to proceed.)

After nine weeks, it's time to head elsewhere for a while, but let's not drop it for nine months again.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 31 Mar 2020, 19:50
I'm perfectly happy for something to happen with this story line. I'm maybe not being as clear as I think. I want more storylines to progress concurrently - not fewer!

I know.  I just want everything!  :-D

I think the issue is that May, for example, does have a dramatic plot in progress, but no romantic subplot. Whereas Elliot and Clinton are the other way around - all romantic subplot with no dramatic plot sitting on top. So we're cutting back and forth and progress on both is slow. If we could just combine the two somehow...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 31 Mar 2020, 20:37
I'm perfectly happy for something to happen with this story line. I'm maybe not being as clear as I think. I want more storylines to progress concurrently - not fewer!

I know.  I just want everything!  :-D

I think the issue is that May, for example, does have a dramatic plot in progress, but no romantic subplot. Whereas Elliot and Clinton are the other way around - all romantic subplot with no dramatic plot sitting on top. So we're cutting back and forth and progress on both is slow. If we could just combine the two somehow...

Incidentally, it looks like Elliot and Yay will become acquainted.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 31 Mar 2020, 20:59
re the bottom right note:

I would have thought he was closer to Desire.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 31 Mar 2020, 23:20
I suspect that this will be the storyline where Yay realises that the universe is not only stranger than they imagine, it is stranger than they can imagine. Melon has already made them suspect that but the interactions of Elliot with... well with everyone and anyone will probably be a significant new data-point. Yay never really understood romantic interactions. Then they inadvertently got roped into helping Elliot untangle his knotted relationships!

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2. We know that chassis has electromagnetic inductors in the hands. I wonder what other advanced technology with combat applications are hidden away in that chassis?

Can robots turn their noses off, or are they stuck with skunk stink?

Well, Melon obviously likes it and Yay's chassis is clearly different enough in its base technology and concept that I image they do not necessarily react to sensory data in the same way as other synthetics do.

That said, yes, I can see Roko, with a clothes peg on her nose, helping a couple of Yays and a disappointed-looking Melon to scrub Elliot down with stiff-bristled brushes and several dozen cans of pureed tomato.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Cornelius on 31 Mar 2020, 23:34
New strip.

Can robots turn their noses off, or are they stuck with skunk stink?

Probably depends on the model.  Most likely can, but a May or other low-end make might be stuck.

Then again, lower-end chassis might not even have one to begin with.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Dolphin Jack on 01 Apr 2020, 04:25
i'm surprised there isn't more votes against the "I ain't scared of no" pterodactyl. Fun fact: it name is from it's catchphrase "I ain't scared of no ..." There are no survivors of "I ain't scared of no" pterodactyls.

for some reason, today's comic (not counting the last panel) makes me *ouch* (sorry if it's incomprehensible, I have weird synesthesia, and bad with word stuff.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: traroth on 01 Apr 2020, 05:40
Probably why they said "Pardon my French"  :-D
Afterwards. But appreciated.
I always say "...if you'll pardon my French" whenever I use a phrase such as coup d'etat or raison d'etre.
C'est marrant, je ne fais jamais ça, moi. Il faudrait que je tente "excusez mon anglais" la prochaine fois que je dis qu'on se retrouve pour un brunch :D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: dreed on 01 Apr 2020, 07:41

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2.

I so don't get the joke. Someone saying hi to you might result in body harm.
And Elliot dialog afterwards seems to imply he was in the wrong?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 01 Apr 2020, 07:49
[snip]
Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2. We know that chassis has electromagnetic inductors in the hands. I wonder what other advanced technology with combat applications are hidden away in that chassis?

[snip]
That said, yes, I can see Roko, with a clothes peg on her nose, helping a couple of Yays and a disappointed-looking Melon to scrub Elliot down with stiff-bristled brushes and several dozen cans of pureed tomato.

1) Electromagnets can do a lot if they're strong enough. Yay is capable of zonking people right out, so who knows?

2) Isn't the trick to use white vinegar?


i'm surprised there isn't more votes against the "I ain't scared of no" pterodactyl. Fun fact: it name is from it's catchphrase "I ain't scared of no ..." There are no survivors of "I ain't scared of no" pterodactyls.

[snip]
.....Also there's a piano arrangement of the Theme of Super Metroid called 'I Ain't Afraid of no Pterodactyl' by Vivi22 on the OCReMix album Reserve Tank:VARIAtions, and I may or may not have misremembered the title.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 01 Apr 2020, 09:58
Mealworms have historically been consumed in many Asian countries, particularly in Southeast Asia. ( wikipedia )
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Raptorofwar on 01 Apr 2020, 10:32
Those prehistoric creatures are tame. Try Titanoboa, Megapiranha, terror birds, and most of the Paleozoic.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Cornelius on 01 Apr 2020, 12:05

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2.

I so don't get the joke. Someone saying hi to you might result in body harm.
And Elliot dialog afterwards seems to imply he was in the wrong?

Someone like Elliot will get a lot of reactions from people getting threatened, even if they're just in a corner in the train reading a book. Some of those reactions can be very aggressive.

Aside from that, I think Jeph actually just means to remind us that Yay is very much not a cuddly character, and doesn't like to be accosted.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 01 Apr 2020, 13:00
For what it's worth, my school was K-6 elementary school, 7-8 junior high (at the high school but in a separate building), and 9-12 high school.
Mine was similar though the middle block was referred to as Senior Public but Highschool went to 13 - yeah that makes me ancient bu most webizzens standards.


This time it’s more a question of who’s going to be more surprised by the first kiss, Elliot, Clinton, or Brun…
My guess/hope is for something a bit different - all three are sitting down with Brun between the two - the "awkward" intensifies to biblical proportions - Brun is tired - puts arms around both and pulls them close - "I like you both now kiss me" may or may not end with a damnit.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 01 Apr 2020, 14:22

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2.

I so don't get the joke. Someone saying hi to you might result in body harm.
And Elliot dialog afterwards seems to imply he was in the wrong?
I read it as Elliot taking care not to surprise/startle people as he approaches them from behind. A man-mountain like Elliot can be rather imposing, particularly to those unaware that he is a marshmallow.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 01 Apr 2020, 16:47

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2.

I so don't get the joke. Someone saying hi to you might result in body harm.

I can see what Jeph was probably going for, but I don't really believe it as it is written.

As far as I can make out, Jeph wants us to believe that Yay is a dreadfully dangerous and almost-omnipotent hive mind with very few ethical boundaries. Even though I don't think we've really seen a hint of them behaving in a way we would find unethical*, except perhaps in torturing Corpse Witch, someone who crossed one of those few ethical boundaries.

Would such a powerful being be startled by someone walking up behind them, even as large as Elliot? Even a being with limitations we can't hope to understand? That seems highly unlikely. And even if they were startled, would Yay wantonly kill? Sure, they've got no ethical boundary to prevent them, but would they be motivated to? The only real motivation we've seen from Yay recently is to be likable.

I just don't buy it. Frankly, I don't see Yay doing anything that might make them dislikable in the eyes of the QC audience.

There is an amusing thought lying underneath it -- Elliot normally startles people, but this time he has unknowingly sneaked up on an ominpotent being. Ha! I think that's what Jeph was getting it.

But I don't believe for a moment that there was any actual danger.

* Unless I've forgotten something. QC archeologists, activate!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: TorporChambre on 01 Apr 2020, 18:27
Would such a powerful being be startled by someone walking up behind them, even as large as Elliot?
Wouldn't such a gentle being be worried about startling someone by walking up behind them, even as powerful as messieurs (https://somethingpositive.net/sp12262006.shtml)?;
for some reason, today's comic (not counting the last panel) makes me *ouch* (sorry if it's incomprehensible, I have weird synesthesia, and bad with word stuff.)
his effecting environ's nightine graity, his curt whimsy.
He, like his father before him, and his father before him, from whom had been inherited, hadn't the training to understand, his raison d'etre, beknownst, now, to only the collectors for his creditors. (https://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/3121.png)
awkward intensifying, Brun, tired, arms around ``like you both, kiss me (dammit).''
Clinton's tacit grand-normalcy esteem, tolerately distasting strangeties, cautiously integrative; insisting exclusivity (polyamorwardan reluctance) into that intimate triple.
:claireface:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: jmucchiello on 01 Apr 2020, 20:47
I just noticed the Chekhov's Skunk tag. Where did we see the skunk before?

Also I stole it ("...if you'll pardon my French") from Neil Gaiman, who used it in the story "Keepsakes and Treasures" (in the collection Fragile Things).
You attribute a saying said for several centuries to Neil Gaiman? He isn't that old. :)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 01 Apr 2020, 20:53
Wouldn't such a gentle being be worried about startling someone by walking up behind them, even as powerful as messieurs (https://somethingpositive.net/sp12262006.shtml)?;

Elliot? Of course, he would.

I just noticed the Chekhov's Skunk tag. Where did we see the skunk before?

We didn't see it before, but it was referenced in an earlier conversation (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4229).

Also I stole it ("...if you'll pardon my French") from Neil Gaiman, who used it in the story "Keepsakes and Treasures" (in the collection Fragile Things).
You attribute a saying said for the several centuries to Neil Gaiman? He isn't that old. :)

The poster was attributing to Gaiman the subversion of the phrase through its literal use, not the phrase itself. Also, he's not saying Gaiman was the first to use the phrase in that way, just that Gaiman was the person the poster stole that specific usage of the phrase from.

*breathes*
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 01 Apr 2020, 20:55

Jeph noted that Elliot actually came close to death when he came up behind Yay in panel 2.

I so don't get the joke. Someone saying hi to you might result in body harm.

I can see what Jeph was probably going for, but I don't really believe it as it is written.

As far as I can make out, Jeph wants us to believe that Yay is a dreadfully dangerous and almost-omnipotent hive mind with very few ethical boundaries. Even though I don't think we've really seen a hint of them behaving in a way we would find unethical*, except perhaps in torturing Corpse Witch, someone who crossed one of those few ethical boundaries.

Would such a powerful being be startled by someone walking up behind them, even as large as Elliot? Even a being with limitations we can't hope to understand? That seems highly unlikely. And even if they were startled, would Yay wantonly kill? Sure, they've got no ethical boundary to prevent them, but would they be motivated to? The only real motivation we've seen from Yay recently is to be likable.

I just don't buy it. Frankly, I don't see Yay doing anything that might make them dislikable in the eyes of the QC audience.

There is an amusing thought lying underneath it -- Elliot normally startles people, but this time he has unknowingly sneaked up on an ominpotent being. Ha! I think that's what Jeph was getting it.

But I don't believe for a moment that there was any actual danger.

* Unless I've forgotten something. QC archeologists, activate!
But most of that has been very specific to their interactions with Roko, the AI they were explicitly trying to befriend.

When Spookybot/Yay was first introduced, they rendered everyone they deemed unimportant in CoD unconscious.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 01 Apr 2020, 21:02
That is absolutely true.

What that means, then, is that we don't really have anything else to go on in terms of understanding Yay's motivations. We know that Yay will act against people violating any being's sanctity of mind. And we know they want to be friends with Roko.

That's it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 01 Apr 2020, 21:42
Yay and Company aren't omniscient.  Perhaps they were distracted by the mealworms errand.  And input is filtered through the individual node.  That goes aways to explaining how Elliot caught him off guard.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Apr 2020, 23:28
I've noticed before that Melon craves intense experiences, whether or not that's wise and whether or not the experience could damage her. So, it makes sense that she'd want to sniff skunk as much as possible, a smell so intensely unpleasant that it can give humans traumatic sense memories. So, she's getting as much of this as she can before Elliot burns those clothes!

Meanwhile, it also makes sense that Yay would like cats. On a certain level, I suspect that they think that they need a white cat with a diamond collar to sit on their lap whilst they plot.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: immortalfrieza on 02 Apr 2020, 00:17
Not even a godlike AI can resist the allure of cats.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 02 Apr 2020, 01:41
But Yay has dogs...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Apr 2020, 02:24
Every person I've ever known who had cats and dogs, the dogs were consistently bullied by the cats. Tom and Jerry lied to us.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 02 Apr 2020, 06:58
It's dentirely possible Spooky finds cats too similar to themselves...  :-P
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Apr 2020, 07:12
* Unless I've forgotten something. QC archeologists, activate!

You mentioned torturing a confession out of Corpse Witch, and I would add paralyzing Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 02 Apr 2020, 10:04
You attribute a saying said for the several centuries to Neil Gaiman? He isn't that old. :)

The poster was attributing to Gaiman the subversion of the phrase through its literal use, not the phrase itself. Also, he's not saying Gaiman was the first to use the phrase in that way, just that Gaiman was the person the poster stole that specific usage of the phrase from.
Thank you, Tova. Yes, this.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 02 Apr 2020, 11:26
Sniff, sniff.
"Where have you been? What have you been doing?"
Sniff, sniff, sniff.

That's the routine I get from my cat every time I come home.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Roborat on 02 Apr 2020, 11:34
With the way the AIs react to tea, and looking at Melon's reaction to the skunk smell, I wonder what the skunk smell does for them.  Perhaps it is just Melon, she has a history of liking strange smelling things.  Why do I get the feeling Melon is going to either steal the clothes, or go out to try to meet the skunk.  Or better yet, bring it home as a pet.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 02 Apr 2020, 18:30
Comic's up.

I wonder how Yay would react to Mieville. He seems more their kind of cat, to me.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 02 Apr 2020, 18:41
HERCULES!

:D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 02 Apr 2020, 18:43
Mieville was seen relatively recently, still living with Dora and having accepted Tai as a member of the household.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 02 Apr 2020, 21:49
It's dentirely possible Spooky finds cats too similar to themselves...  :-P

As I said to a friend and fellow reader when yesterday's strip went up,
"One of the few creatures as coolly certain of their superiority as Yay themselves."
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Apr 2020, 23:26
So, it's confirmed that the Spookybot nodes are continually updating each other about what they're doing and thinking. I love how the Yay in Elliot's lounge room remains dryly unimpressed whilst the others are practically dancing with joy at the fluffy furfriend. I'm guessing that they are dumping their excess emotion into the others in order to maintain their image of being the coolly detached super-intelligence!

Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
I'm interested to see where Jeph may be taking this. Certainly, I think that Yay is going to learn more about the microcosm of human life than they likely ever really understood properly before now!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: hakko504 on 02 Apr 2020, 23:54
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 03 Apr 2020, 01:29
That is absolutely true.

What that means, then, is that we don't really have anything else to go on in terms of understanding Yay's motivations. We know that Yay will act against people violating any being's sanctity of mind. And we know they want to be friends with Roko.

That's it.
And that they adore cats and dogs.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 03 Apr 2020, 01:37
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.

Hmmmm.....I wonder what he listens to. Maybe early prog-rock?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 03 Apr 2020, 02:42
Yay's dog isn't sure about this development...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Apr 2020, 03:54
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.

It may be so that vinyl is bigger now than in the 90s, but I don't think it was dead by then. I think I was still buying vinyl in the early 90s at least, maybe even towards the mid 90s.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Swedish Chef on 03 Apr 2020, 04:05
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.

Hmmmm.....I wonder what he listens to. Maybe early prog-rock?

I peg Elliot as a Steely Dan/Donald Fagen fan.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: NemesisDancer on 03 Apr 2020, 04:10
I love when pets resemble their owners. Hercules is basically Elliott as a cat (a big tough softy) :3
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Apr 2020, 05:32
There wasn’t a whole lot of new stuff coming out on vinyl in the 90s (and what there was, was mostly incredibly high-priced collector’s items), but it’s always been possible to get older stuff second-hand. In particular, Newberry Comics on Pleasant Street in Northampton has a pretty impressive collection of vintage vinyl for sale.

If we’re doing a pool, I’ll take Elliot as a Beatles fan.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 03 Apr 2020, 06:15
HERCULES!

:D
If there is a Herc then there has to be a NEWTON [stupid centaur]

Please no Tewt, tate small satyr who vocalizes only by playing his syrinx, an abomination spawned from the toddler sidekick phase that all NA cartoon series releases went through.
Bat-mite, scrappy-doo-doo, seven-zark-seven et al deserve to be the smelly sticky grimy footnote in the history of animation.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: jwhouk on 03 Apr 2020, 07:35
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.
Hmmmm.....I wonder what he listens to. Maybe early prog-rock?

Bachman-Turner Overdrive.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: dutchrvl on 03 Apr 2020, 08:50
Every person I've ever known who had cats and dogs, the dogs were consistently bullied by the cats. Tom and Jerry lied to us.

In my experience, this is mostly true with the larger dog breeds, who get bullied by the cat. Maybe something to do with larger dogs tending to be more gentle souls(?) 
The small, much more energetic dog breeds do tend to harass cats (mostly by continually chasing them).

This is my experience, at least.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 03 Apr 2020, 15:07
I have quite a lot of vinyl records.  Why?  Because the recordings on them have never been available in any other form; that's the only rational reason to have them.

And I use contemporary equipment to play them - a turntable from the 1950s and a cartridge and arm from the 1970s:

(https://cassland.org/images/Vinyl.jpg)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 03 Apr 2020, 17:03
HIgh School, 8th grade through 11th, was quite nice. Everything before that was Hell on Earth, sociologically.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 04 Apr 2020, 04:21
Taking a look around Elliot's apartment:
  • Old-style hi-fi sound system with a turntable; into classic tunes, maybe from the 80s and 90s?
LPs were almost completely dead in the 90s. AFAIK everything new was almost 100% released on CD only. I'd guess 60s-80s as his main interest in music. It's probably easier to find new music on LP now than in the mid-late 90s.

It may be so that vinyl is bigger now than in the 90s, but I don't think it was dead by then. I think I was still buying vinyl in the early 90s at least, maybe even towards the mid 90s.
As I understand it, 'location location location'. There were diehard hi-fi fans in the 90s, too. The concentration of them just depended on where you happened to be. NYC apparently had a fair few record stores in the 90s that pretty much only sold vinyl.
[Not certain as to the reliability of the source for that last one.]

Hmmm.... considering Elliot works at the Horrible Revelation, I wonder if he knows a guy who makes electro-swing vinyls?

EDIT: Seems my guy was right about vinyls in the 90s, then. (I was just a kid at the time)

Avoiding double posting.
HIgh School, 8th grade through 11th, was quite nice. Everything before that was Hell on Earth, sociologically.

My younger brother and I both got in enough trouble at our Hell middleschool that we both barely graduated to high school one suspension short of expulsion. I was short, fat, and nerodivergent. My brother was who all the wannabe hood rats (Wichita gaddam Kansas) decided they needed to gang up on to prove how badass they were (2 or 3 vs 1 just proves cowardice). The other strike against both of us was that we were white kids at a mostly black school. Though, I was frequently mistaken for Hispanic, so I was targeted for that too.

EDIT 2: We've got a smidgen of Cherokee and Choctaw blood, so I managed to get olive skin. Both of my brothers burn like tomatoes.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: immortalfrieza on 04 Apr 2020, 23:46
I can see the AIs not minding it, but I'm surprised Elliot's cat can even stand to be in the same building as him much less be held by him after the skunk.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Apr 2020, 02:00
As Elliot said, Hercules is a lumpus. He probably does not move far or fast ever on solely grounds of principle. If that means having to deal with awful smells... Well, he hangs around when Elliot comes home from the gym, doesn't he (yes, I know, several orders of magnitude difference in 'bad')?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 05 Apr 2020, 02:22
I own two cats, and I can tell you now that not only do they not care about how bad I smell when I get home from a run, some days they positively adore it.

I can also assure you that a human's bad smells do not hold a candle to the smells generated by a cat's bodily functions.

The skunk... well, I've never smelled that thankfully, but I imagine that a cat would be curious about it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Apr 2020, 09:14
I don't know about cats, but a family dog who got sprayed by a skunk screamed.

Then was baffled why he wasn't allowed in the house.

Our late cat would bury her face in anything that smelled like sweaty feet.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Dolphin Jack on 05 Apr 2020, 11:34
recordings on them have never been available in any other form
I "never" play my vynil disks from damage. I know computerizing it is something about needle vibrating the magnet to analouge wire to a computer like a microphone, but the physics are donting, and i "can't" unless i understand.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: notStanley on 06 Apr 2020, 10:11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

A few of today's search hits tried to imply it was "not digital", that is just market speak.  The optical interface will not be analogue.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 06 Apr 2020, 11:13
My turntable isn't contactless, unfortunately, but *does* have a USB output.  So, whenever I buy a new LP, the first thing I do is record a playthrough and encode it as flac.  Of course, I am lazy and have several acquisitions that I haven't played yet because chopping up the resulting stream into discrete tracks is annoying.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 06 Apr 2020, 11:54
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

A few of today's search hits tried to imply it was "not digital", that is just market speak.  The optical interface will not be analogue.

You can blame the whole mess on today's modern patent jungle that has stymied any real developments of a commercial product outside of the rarefied atmosphere of audiophiles with more money than sense.

If I was designing such a system to day I would start by using a cellphone camera module through a short focus lens since it is pretty much off the shelf except for the lens, small and lightweight.
Physical tracking would be linear to match the mechanism they used to cut the original track for the die press so you avoid the tonearm tracking distortion you would normally get.
The software for this is a straight off the shelf industrial vision system.

As for the reading of the track data 100% digital may give you too much detail and you would have to get creative with your filtering algorithms but the reproduction would be 100% accurate.
Mind the electronics to do all this would have to be using the processing power equivalent to a modern video card and not a few hundred kilohertz used in most consumer goods.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 06 Apr 2020, 17:48
Which specific whole mess are you referring to in your post? There are so many to choose from.  :clairedoge:

I'd be curious to know what patents on this technology, if any, remain unexpired. The fundamental patent would have expired by now.

I suspect that the devil is in the implementation detail, as is the case with a lot of these kinds of ideas. But if it's as even half as straightforward as you say, why not go ahead and build one?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 09 Apr 2020, 09:31
Our late cat would bury her face in anything that smelled like sweaty feet.
One of our late cats was the same.  If I came in all hot and sweaty from doing outside chores, the Best. Possible. Thing. for that cat to do was come over to where I was lying on the floor and roll in my left armpit.  The wetter and nastier it was, the louder she'd purr.  My right armpit wasn't nearly as interesting; go figure.  And if I made the mistake of taking my Tshirt off, she'd groom my armpit hairs (which you can imagine what a cats tongue feels like on unprotected armpit skin). 

Truly a strange beast.  Yes, I have pictures.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 13 Apr 2020, 10:27
Which specific whole mess are you referring to in your post? There are so many to choose from.  :clairedoge:

I'd be curious to know what patents on this technology, if any, remain unexpired. The fundamental patent would have expired by now.

I suspect that the devil is in the implementation detail, as is the case with a lot of these kinds of ideas. But if it's as even half as straightforward as you say, why not go ahead and build one?

From my limited experience, reading on the subjects and discussions with those on the law end of things all those patents and copyrights and trademarks just don't effectively expire unless someone forgot to renew them [see LEGO and the law office that lost a whole list of major clients for that screw-up - they forgot to file the paperwork in time]

Patents get renewed, refreshed by minor tweaks to a formula [pharmaceuticals] or design modifications [yes changing one spec in a patent makes it "new"], or abandoned due to being encircled by similar patents that prevent any modification to the original.

Copyright is the latest tool to lock down technology through copyrighting code and the anti-hacking laws making third party service highly illegal.
Copyright is also death+70 years or some such crazy corporate shite since if it wasn't like that the creators would not be able create more work. [they're dead Jim]
The biggest instigator for that little gem is Disney so that they can keep the mouse in the house.
The Copyright office is a bastion of dysfunction where the rule is "if it wasn't in our files as yet it can be patented" and we end up with patents being issued on centuries old technology or the transfer of an everyday common work routine onto an automated system and patenting the work routine itself because it is done on a computer [mind they don't even bother detailing the how, just the what].

When it comes to this specific application, each and every component or system I mentioned is available off the shelf.
The issue does not come from assembling everything into a working system but to be able to sell the resulting product at a commercial scale without going broke and-or crazy.
Each part comes with it's own licensing and sub licensing, patents and copyright fees.
You would have to find each and every copyright and patent holder and make a deal with them and pray they do not say no or charge some ridiculous amount and that there is some obscure stupid patent that you missed that will extort huge sums from you.
This is easier for mega-corps since they have portfolios of patents and lawyers at their beck and call yet even they fall prey to patent trolls who extort moneys for nonsensical patents that were issued because fighting them is costlier than paying them off - well unless they really piss the corp off and then they hunt down and ravage the trolls patent portfolio into non-existance.

Too bad it is damn near impossible to get rid of a troll unless they are the epitome of chutzpah, stupid and crooked - see Prenda Law for a rare example of this - it is a fun read.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Apr 2020, 12:46
I got called in for a deposition in a patent lawsuit against a former employer. It was over a pretty obvious technique that my former employer had not used. One lawyer said that progress in that particular field had come to a halt because of patent litigation.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 13 Apr 2020, 12:55
Quote
The biggest instigator for that little gem is Disney so that they can keep the mouse in the house.
They won’t ever lose Mickey; trademarks can be refreshed indefinitely.
What they don’t want is people publishing certain, ah, how shall we say, early works of a controversial nature? Yes, those, from being published on YouTube or whatever without any legal means to remove them, because copyright extends exclusively to individual works, not bodies of work or parts of a work like a character.

This is wholly separate to the patent issue and I agree, the USPTO is messed up right now, but considering they’ve issued patents for perpetual motion machines for at least the last century I’m not sure it’s that new a phenomenon.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 13 Apr 2020, 16:45
Patents get renewed, refreshed by minor tweaks to a formula [pharmaceuticals] or design modifications [yes changing one spec in a patent makes it "new"], or abandoned due to being encircled by similar patents that prevent any modification to the original.

Copyright is the latest tool to lock down technology through copyrighting code and the anti-hacking laws making third party service highly illegal.
Copyright is also death+70 years or some such crazy corporate shite since if it wasn't like that the creators would not be able create more work. [they're dead Jim]

I used to work for one of the world's most prolific patent writers, so I'm somewhat familiar with this topic.

And yes, in case you're wondering, I am extremely frustrated with the patent system, and particularly in relation to software patents, which is a can of worms all on its own.

It is absolutely true that patents often get renewed through the addition of minor tweaks that are somehow justified as novel. Here is the thing about the patent system in general. The patent office gets ludicrous numbers of applications and the barrier to justifying a patent application as novel and inventive is somewhat lower than it really ought to be. Essentially, just because a patent application is successful, that doesn't mean that the patent is truly valid. That is particularly true of the kinds of refreshes you are talking about. Their attitude is that if it passes some low barriers, then it will be granted, and if you don't like it, you can test it in court.

There are lots of "perpetual motion patents" as Mr_Rose puts it, and the like, which I wouldn't regard as valid, but as they haven't been tested in court, there they sit.

Because challenging a patent in court is a costly and lengthy exercise pretty much reserved for people who can afford expensive lawyers, this is a bullshit system. It's the reason so many trolls are successful, as I'm sure you're aware. They generally rely on you not having the funds or the patience to test their claims in court, and in fact, even large companies like the one I used to work for would rather settle than go to the trouble of challenging much of the time. It's cheaper.

And yes, that's the reason you see so many perpetual motion patents.

The only real bright side from my experience is that I have some ability to read patentese now.

Patents are meant to be a trade between the inventor and the state. The inventor discloses to the state how to make the thing they have invented. The state grants the inventor a monopoly over that invention for a period of time. In theory, everyone ought to benefit from such a trade. We all know that's mostly not the case. We need to change this.

Also, since you mention it, yes I agree that 70 years for copyright is BS as well. 20 years ought to be ample time.

Back to the contactless turntable you're talking about. You are implying that the reason these are not commonplace is because of patent issues. However, it's possible that the real reason is that getting these things to work reliably and well is rifer with difficulty than you are imagining. When you look at the various reviews, they talk about them not being able to play coloured vinyl and being highly sensitive to dust and impurities.

While it is possible that they "refreshed" the patent by patenting some new technique or tweak, it should be possible to avoid such patents by avoiding these new techniques, possibly by coming up with your own innovations to solve the problems those patents are addressing, or maybe even just ignoring them. The fundamental patent has expired, so there is nothing stopping you from implementing it.

P.S. I am not a lawyer, just an engineer, so my word on patents is far from gospel.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 15 Apr 2020, 05:13
P.S. I am not a lawyer, just an engineer, so my word on patents is far from gospel.
Then you know a darn sight more than the Lawyers and all but maybe one or two judges.

Now onto the more fun engineering issues you mentioned.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 15 Apr 2020, 14:56
I'll just throw in the complication that there are actually two contours to work out, not just one, for stereo albums.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 17 Apr 2020, 05:27
I had to look that up - stereo on a record - sheeesh - I don't remember any of the records or players I have ever owned being stereo capable.
- just checked my record accumulation and dang it, I do have some stereo LPs
- all of them are orchestral and operatic collections I picked up at various bazaars and yard sales over the years.

Fortunately that would only require a tad more work on the software side treating the left and right sides of the grove as separate data streams
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 17 Apr 2020, 05:52
I had to look that up - stereo on a record - sheeesh - I don't remember any of the records or players I have ever owned being stereo capable.

Hardly new; the mono LP was only around for ten years before stereo ones became available, and separate mono pressings died out barely ten years after that.  Nearly all LPs are stereo.

Funny story.  In 1957 there was an international meeting to agree the means by which stereo would be put into a record groove.  The preferred way was agreed, and then the Bell Labs representative told the meeting that they had patents on that method, so everyone would have to pay them royalties.  The British representative then, without a word, put a copy of an expired patent on the table.  It was Blumlein's 1931 patent for the exact same thing, which Bell Labs were not even aware of! (Blumlein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Blumlein) was one of the true technical geniuses of that time, and worked for EMI just outside London; he did pioneering work in sound reproduction, television and radar.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 18 Apr 2020, 03:06
I had to look that up - stereo on a record - sheeesh - I don't remember any of the records or players I have ever owned being stereo capable.
- just checked my record accumulation and dang it, I do have some stereo LPs
- all of them are orchestral and operatic collections I picked up at various bazaars and yard sales over the years.

Fortunately that would only require a tad more work on the software side treating the left and right sides of the grove as separate data streams

If I recall correctly, it's something more along the lines of left and right movement of the stylus being left + right, and vertical movement of the stylus being left - right. Maybe not exactly, but something along those lines.

The reason for that is that you want your albums to have mono compatibility. So if it's a mono player and only looks at the horizontal movement, then you get the sum of the two channels which is a basically mono-compatible mix. But stereo players can also calculate the left and right signals by adding half the difference channel to get the left and subtracting to get right.

The ability to play albums on mono and stereo equipment was a big deal.

I think my parents may have had a handful of mono albums, but the vast majority were in stereo. Some of them made a very big deal of being stereo and mono-compatible on the front of the cardboard sleeve.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 18 Apr 2020, 03:09
Funny story.  In 1957 there was an international meeting to agree the means by which stereo would be put into a record groove.  The preferred way was agreed, and then the Bell Labs representative told the meeting that they had patents on that method, so everyone would have to pay them royalties.  The British representative then, without a word, put a copy of an expired patent on the table.  It was Blumlein's 1931 patent for the exact same thing, which Bell Labs were not even aware of! (Blumlein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Blumlein) was one of the true technical geniuses of that time, and worked for EMI just outside London; he did pioneering work in sound reproduction, television and radar.)

This is why you have to be so careful in searching for prior art before lodging a patent claim. The risk of being granted, and paying for, a worthless patent is very real.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 18 Apr 2020, 06:40
"Mono-compatible" on a stereo LP simply meant that the LF components of the difference signal were attenuated so that a pickup not designed to track the vertical movement wouldn't get thrown out of the groove.

Although there have been pickups that sensed the horizontal and vertical movements and matrixed them (in the sensor coils, or a separate transformer) to generate left and right outputs, most pickups are actually mechanically arranged so that the two 45° movements actuate separate sensors so that no matrixing is necessary.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4231-4235 (30th of March to 3rd April, 2020)
Post by: Tova on 18 Apr 2020, 16:45
I see! Thanks for that bit of info.