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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Mavadotar on 05 Jul 2020, 00:25

Title: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mavadotar on 05 Jul 2020, 00:25
Well, hopefully Femto was never named Griffith...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Jul 2020, 18:13
Well, hopefully Femto was never named Griffith...

Welcome, new person!

Once again I am missing a cultural reference.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Jul 2020, 18:20
Well, hopefully Femto was never named Griffith...

Welcome, new person!

Once again I am missing a cultural reference.

(no, I don't get the reference either)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jul 2020, 22:27
It really is a poorly designed system.

Sorry, no poll.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jul 2020, 22:29
Damn, messed up the date.

<mod>sorted.</mod>
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jul 2020, 23:16
Yes, thank you, Femto, we got that the first time! Although I suppose they might feel a bit miffed at being excluded from the conversation.

Yeah, in the end, funding is the thing. If no-one is interested in supplying the green, then nothing new will happen and this has been the case for some time. However, in this case, I wonder if it may be a blessing in disguise. I'm sure the guys and gals at Munroe are all wonderful people but something tells me that Landon's idea of sensible design decisions are not always in line with their label! May might not have been too happy with what came out of the design process.

Actually, it might be interesting to know why Munroe are running at a deficit. I think it might be somehow connected for why Roko asked for their help.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Jul 2020, 23:20
Perhaps Punchbot could help them get their finances in order.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: QuestionableIntentions on 05 Jul 2020, 23:25
Landon seems rather scatter brained for such an important position. Did he get it because of family nepotism?

Also, is he human? I could totally see him as the Avatar of a large scale AI that doesn't exactly think like other AIs.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 05 Jul 2020, 23:41
Many a tech company, especially those started and run by a single techwiz with "big ideas", run at a deficit.

Every tech genius needs a practically-minded partner to guide and reel them in.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: DaiJB on 05 Jul 2020, 23:49
Landon is a total propeller-head and I like him already  :-D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: oddtail on 06 Jul 2020, 00:06
I mean... money *is* a poorly-designed system for the twenty-first century.

*the Internationale starts playing in the background*

We technically have enough resources to go around, not just to cover extremely basic needs, but most needs related to health, safety and basic accomodations of everyone. And we'd presumably have more resources to go in the QC-verse than in the real world.

Money is a resource that made a lot of sense when it was first conceived of, in times of extreme scarcity. We're not exactly post-scarcity, but much of modern scarcity is manufactured and artificial, and serves the needs of an increasingly small number of people.

So this guy, goofy as his reaction is, is not exactly wrong.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mavadotar on 06 Jul 2020, 00:12
Thank you, looong time lurker that finally decided to jump in. It is a reference to the manga Berserk, wherin (quarter century old spoiler alert) mercenary leader Griffith decides to sacrifice all of his his friends and subordinates in absolutely hellish fashion in order to be reborn as what is effectively a demon lord named Femto.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 06 Jul 2020, 01:39
I mean... money *is* a poorly-designed system for the twenty-first century.

*the Internationale starts playing in the background*

We technically have enough resources to go around, not just to cover extremely basic needs, but most needs related to health, safety and basic accomodations of everyone. And we'd presumably have more resources to go in the QC-verse than in the real world.

Money is a resource that made a lot of sense when it was first conceived of, in times of extreme scarcity. We're not exactly post-scarcity, but much of modern scarcity is manufactured and artificial, and serves the needs of an increasingly small number of people.

So this guy, goofy as his reaction is, is not exactly wrong.

But if we did that, people who think they're intrinsically better than everyone else[1] don't have a way to screw over the rest of the population through the hoarding of wealth and supplies.

[1] They usually still argue 'genetics' and they all often marry each other through much more careful inbreeding than they used to.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 06 Jul 2020, 02:21
For comparison (https://xkcd.com/1493/)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 02:57
Have to admit I never thought I'd see the day this comic skewers socialism and sjws in general

Its quite refreshing
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: oddtail on 06 Jul 2020, 03:02
Have to admit I never thought I'd see the day this comic skewers socialism and sjws in general

Its quite refreshing

Care to elaborate? I don't read that this way at all. Where's the skewering? Heck, where's socialism and SJWs? There's a guy who's well-meaning, but has no firm grasp on the concept of money. If that automatically registers as either "socialist" or "SJW" to you, then I'm honestly fascinated to hear your thought process here, because I'm not connecting those particular dots.

Or are you referring to something else?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 06 Jul 2020, 03:04
Have to admit I never thought I'd see the day this comic skewers socialism and sjws in general

Its quite refreshing
That is certainly an odd take on the comic. It was specifically saying capitalism is a broken system. I too would like to know how you came to your conclusion.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 03:14
Sure. Episode 4299 Roko talks about using the SJ angle and then we see her real intentions in the next panel which neatly sums up a lot of SJWs in that they talk about things like peaceful protesting but the real aim is loot, burn and pillage

Epsiode 4300 the guy that brings up abolishing the carceral state (which is the sort of thing more people on the left rather than the right tend to think is a good idea) is a well meaning but completely clueless idiot that then starts to think about physically blowing up something that doesn't physically exist

Todays episode is basically socialism at its finest, the guy in charge has no idea how money works yet decides it must be a poorly-designed system and not that maybe he himself is a complete idiot that has access to plenty of money but wastes it on stuff like particle cannons so the last couple of episodes have been quite critical in a way I didn't expect do well done to the author for keeping everyone on their toes

Of course I may also have got this interpretation completely wrong
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 03:17
Have to admit I never thought I'd see the day this comic skewers socialism and sjws in general

Its quite refreshing
That is certainly an odd take on the comic. It was specifically saying capitalism is a broken system. I too would like to know how you came to your conclusion.

But the person saying it thinks you can blow up something that doesn't physically exist so I'm not sure we should read it as capitalism is a broken system

I personally think that capitalism is the best form of government we have or have ever had, of course I'm also from New Zealand where we have capitalism but with a large social welfare safety net which is good but could use some tweaking
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 06 Jul 2020, 03:21
In my experience, anyone who uses the acronym "SJW" is probably a neo-nazi. Or a neo-USSRarian (I just made that up, but it describes them very well).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 06 Jul 2020, 03:24
You keep right on being you, Femto.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: oddtail on 06 Jul 2020, 03:25
I mean, I think I get where you're coming from.

I read the "giant particle cannon" as a goofy joke "there's a problem. What's the most nonsensical, simple way to solve it that a person might possibly think of?", and that doesn't read to me as a satire of any socio-political movement or approach. I'm pretty sure no-one advocates the physical destruction of prisons with a cannon as a solution to systemic problems with them. And on a broader scale, I don't see stereotypical leftists, especially "SJWs", as associated with crude, physical and/or violent solutions to problems.

The only left leaning group that's associated with violent, direct action even as a stereotype is the Fox News idea of "Antifa", but I'm pretty sure that stereotype is completely different from the "SJW" stereotype, which I've seen criticised as people focused on talking (ostensibly about minor issues), lack of follow-through and a propensity for pointless outrage.

The thing is, whether those stereotypes reflect reality or not (I don't think they do), they're diametrically opposed to each other. Satirizing SJWs by having a character advocate the use of a cannon is incoherent, because it has nothing to do with the stereotype.

So even if we go full-on "death of the author" and ignore that Jeph clearly seems to be left-leaning and rather sympathetic to progressive causes, so a satire of a broad "SJW" stereotype does not really follow from the text of the comic itself.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 03:30
In my experience, anyone who uses the acronym "SJW" is probably a neo-nazi. Or a neo-USSRarian (I just made that up, but it describes them very well).

I don't know so I'm only guessing but I'm pretty sure neo-nazis arn't big supporters of the social welfare system (though I imagine most of them are on it) and as for the other one maybe they're not so big on capitalism either
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 06 Jul 2020, 03:34
Of course I may also have got this interpretation completely wrong

Okay, sure. Just for the record:

Quote
the real aim is loot, burn and pillage

No, it's not.

Quote
starts to think about physically blowing up something that doesn't physically exist

that_the_joke.jpg

Quote
the guy in charge has no idea how money works yet decides it must be a poorly-designed system

The fact that he doesn't know how money works doesn't make him a socialist. He's... well, let me put it this way, Jeph's very well-worn scientist caricature.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 03:38
I mean, I think I get where you're coming from.


Oh yeah I can definitely accept that my interpretation is probably wrong (too much watching news I guess) and the author is certainly on the left but the left label has certainly been damaged by politicians of the left that've become immensely wealthy through politics and don't seem all that different from those on the right

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 03:49
Quote
No, it's not.

If its not then I'd hate to see them really go for it because they're doing a heckofa job at the moment

Quote
that_the_joke.jpg

Many a true word is spoken in jest

Quote
The fact that he doesn't know how money works doesn't make him a socialist. He's... well, let me put it this way, Jeph's very well-worn scientist caricature.

He also assumed Roko wanted to get rid of the carceral system and was in complete agreement so yeah combined with no real knowledge of how money works theres a good chance hes a socialist as well, or has strong socialist leanings
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 06 Jul 2020, 04:17
For simplicity, let's just take one of these at a time, shall we?

Quote
No, it's not.

If its not then I'd hate to see them really go for it because they're doing a heckofa job at the moment

They are? Please cite the instances of looting, burning, and pillaging you have in mind. I'm terribly forgetful.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 06 Jul 2020, 04:24
Most socialist I know are perfectly aware of how money works. You know who doesn't know how money works? Entitled second and third generation rich people who have never had to think or worry about money, and most of those are hard right.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Jul 2020, 05:06
They still had money in the USSR. And China still has it, too.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 06 Jul 2020, 05:20
Seeing as we've addressed two, let's knock the last one off.

Many a true word is spoken in jest

If they do end up blowing something up, I hereby solemnly promise to send you a heartfelt, handwritten apology.

It seems unlikely to me.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 06 Jul 2020, 06:52
Well, that sucked.

Poor Roko.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2020, 09:11
Prison reform is simply a good idea which has support from Jared Kushner and the Koch Brothers. We don't know Roko's politics, though having been a police officer changes the odds. She might be a conservative who sees the carceral state as a failed big government program.

Couldn't Munroe Robotics get paid for re-entry bodies by one of the charities that Eminence Grise gave billions of dollars to?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2020, 09:13
Thank you!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 06 Jul 2020, 09:25
He also assumed Roko wanted to get rid of the carceral system and was in complete agreement so yeah combined with no real knowledge of how money works theres a good chance hes a socialist as well, or has strong socialist leanings
Hmmm.  I'm not sure how you made that particular leap.  What does being a Socialist have to do with deciding the justice system shouldn't have incarceration as a tool?

Quote
I personally think that capitalism is the best form of government we have or have ever had, of course I'm also from New Zealand
I'm pretty sure capitalism isn't a form of government, though as intertwined as governments sometimes get in the economic system, I can understand how the mis-perception can arise.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 06 Jul 2020, 10:29
There is a fictional quote on point which I can't locate offhand.

I seem to remember it was the capitalist in "Major Barbara" who gave a stern speech beginning with "I am your government".
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Jul 2020, 13:07
Knowing of Jeph's partiality to manga/anime, Berserk is not an unlikely reference.  Certainly I was struggling with making the SI prefix, the only other femto I know of, relate to anything.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Rincewind on 06 Jul 2020, 15:15
I couldn't quite remember what "femto" meant, so I looked it up. It's 10 to the -15th, smaller than "Nano". I wonder if Femto is a collection of micro-machines?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Jul 2020, 15:27
Could just be like a huge guy who gets the nickname “Tiny”.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 17:59
Quote
Hmmm.  I'm not sure how you made that particular leap.  What does being a Socialist have to do with deciding the justice system shouldn't have incarceration as a tool?

To be fair it just seemed to me the kind of addle brained thinking a socialist would think is a good idea

Quote
I'm pretty sure capitalism isn't a form of government, though as intertwined as governments sometimes get in the economic system, I can understand how the mis-perception can arise.

Fair call, it was pretty late when i wrote it so lazy writing on my part. Democracy is the best form of government we have and capitalism (with a large safety net) is the best economic system we have
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 06 Jul 2020, 18:29
It would be interesting to reveal that the donation is mostly gone, having been leeched off by various levels of bureacracy.

Resulting in 'Hey, Newfriend' deciding that steps must be taken....
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 06 Jul 2020, 19:53
Have to admit I never thought I'd see the day this comic skewers socialism and sjws in general

Its quite refreshing

Care to elaborate? I don't read that this way at all. Where's the skewering? Heck, where's socialism and SJWs? There's a guy who's well-meaning, but has no firm grasp on the concept of money. If that automatically registers as either "socialist" or "SJW" to you, then I'm honestly fascinated to hear your thought process here, because I'm not connecting those particular dots.
This comic is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no philosopher looks out.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 06 Jul 2020, 20:01
Ah, Beepatrice. This is one of the few cases where I can believe that a character REALLY turns their pupils into hearts. I'm actually kinda surprised that they didn't turn into mini Roko's instead. Maybe her level of idolization hasn't risen high enough yet?

Next stop: crowdfunding. What is the QC-verse version of Kickstarter/GoFundMe? 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 21:24
Quote
This comic is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no philosopher looks out.

If you disagree with me thats fine but as I'm Tangata Whenua (more specifically my Iwi is Ngai Tahu) I don't appreciate being likened to a monkey
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 06 Jul 2020, 23:34
Quote
Only five (5) families own all of the major American news outlets. Dropping cable news would probably be a very good idea.

Did not know that, interesting and worrying
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 06 Jul 2020, 23:35
I mean, I think I get where you're coming from.


Oh yeah I can definitely accept that my interpretation is probably wrong (too much watching news I guess) and the author is certainly on the left but the left label has certainly been damaged by politicians of the left that've become immensely wealthy through politics and don't seem all that different from those on the right

Only five (5) families own all of the major American news outlets.
 Dropping cable news is generally advisable as it is news motivated by profit instead of accuracy.

The only 'talking heads' I'll recommend is the band.

EDIT: Damn, I was hoping to reformat my post w/o an edit note.


Tangentially related; goddammit, gen-1 Bionicle.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 06 Jul 2020, 23:41
In today's strip, Roko finds out that the only thing worse than none of your plans working out is to have a dear friend have absolute confidence in you when you don't think that you're worthy of it. Feeling a fraud in front of your friends is far, far worse than failing.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 07 Jul 2020, 01:20
In today's strip, Roko finds out that the only thing worse than none of your plans working out is to have a dear friend have absolute confidence in you when you don't think that you're worthy of it. Feeling a fraud in front of your friends is far, far worse than failing.

Agreed.

[Thank you for changing the topic.]
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Jul 2020, 03:39
The only 'talking heads' I'll recommend is the band.

Do not overlook this brilliant series of monologues (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Heads_(series)) by Alan Bennett.  Book, TV, radio, stage - they've been done on many media.

(https://cassland.org/images/TalkingHeads.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Heads_(series))
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 07 Jul 2020, 04:03
In today's strip, Roko finds out that the only thing worse than none of your plans working out is to have a dear friend have absolute confidence in you when you don't think that you're worthy of it. Feeling a fraud in front of your friends is far, far worse than failing.
I was left wondering when Beeps is going to make a play for Roko.  And how Yay would take and respond to that; they've already demonstrated their ability to zap other AIs during the CorpseWitch affair...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 07 Jul 2020, 04:59
Plot twist; Yay is ingratiating themself with Roko because in the future she actually becomes Roko’s Basilisk and Yay wants to avert, or at least survive, the coming apocalypse.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 07 Jul 2020, 06:05

But...

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?

(Either way, looks like thats next level.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 07 Jul 2020, 09:40
Quote
This comic is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no philosopher looks out.

If you disagree with me thats fine but as I'm Tangata Whenua (more specifically my Iwi is Ngai Tahu) I don't appreciate being likened to a monkey
Didn't know; don't care. Was a reference to cognition, not appearance.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 07 Jul 2020, 12:04

But...

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?

(Either way, looks like thats next level.)
Can’t send money to a charity that doesn’t exist; also, we have no idea about the distribution - Yay May have biased larger donations towards larger organisations. Or they may have done the opposite and some obscure disease research organisation with two administrators and three researchers now has enough money to buy Stark Industries twice and no idea where to start.
Title: There's also talking heads in futurama. Not that all of them are trustworthy.
Post by: N.N. Marf on 07 Jul 2020, 12:39
It was specifically saying capitalism is a broken system.
Capitalism isn't a system, it's a way of looking at society, emphasizing resources as owned by persons. "Capital" just means resources owned by someone. Of course, that's not the end-all way of looking at the world. Socialism, for example, looks at a society, emphasizing interactions between persons (some who maybe own some resources). One problem with the version of capitalism that we have today is that it doesn't place enough emphasis on the person. One problem with the version of socialism that we have today is that it doesn't place enough emphasis on persons that prefers to keep to himself.

physically blowing up something that doesn't physically exist
I'm not good at understanding what a person was thinking, unless he says what he's thinking, so I'd be interested in knowing what he was thinking of blowing up. If I had a sciencey-fantasy cannon and wanted to abolish prisons, I'd probably want shoot down their gates. (If there are no prisons, then there's no "carceral state" to abolish.) Of course, that's quite a violent solution.
(click to show/hide)

Todays episode is basically socialism at its finest, the guy in charge has no idea how money works yet decides it must be a poorly-designed system and not that maybe he himself is a complete idiot that has access to plenty of money but wastes it on stuff like particle cannons so the last couple of episodes have been quite critical in a way I didn't expect do well done to the author for keeping everyone on their toes
See, I agree with you that Landon's a dope. I don't agree with you that that's exemplary socialism. Credit unions are much better examples. Although it's grounded in "capitalism", because it's dealing with things owned by it's members, it's quite socialist, because it's goal is to secure it's members' wealth. One example is that they were mostly unscathed by the 2008 fizzling of the economic foam (it's a better metaphor than "bubble"---that's not important). I think that the general principle that we all could learn from is that we can't disregard the fact that the world consists of persons who own stuff, but that it's more effective for us to work together, so that our actions at least don't harm anyone else.

Didn't Spookybot send billions to all layers of charitable causes?
Now back to what's important (unleashing my imagination on minor details from nonbad fiction):
They said they did that, but they might not be as powerful as some persons might think. We've seen that they have a few instances, and we know they're powerful enough to overtake/meddle with one cybrid (was that word coined here? I've only seen it used here.), and they can zap (or something) a human to sleep. I think it's plausible that only a few instances networked together that way can have that sort of power. I especially doubt their nigh-omniscience. (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34657.msg1445547.html#msg1445547) I wonder if maybe they only network with local instances, so that they can take more local cultural references for granted, and that they only have immediate access to the collective power of those local instances. Something like a mesh-network collective intelligence. Each node would have it's distinct personality that is almost identical with each of the one's it networks with, but that almost-identicallity of their personalities makes them think they're the same mind. This could cause them to freely share data/memories with any other instance, which would further strengthen their belief that they are one. Yet, they insist that they are plural, so it's not as though it's just one Yay with one body made of many embodied-cybrid chasses (is that the plural of "chassis"?) If that's the case, Yay would be another good (and quite creepy) example of "socialism" working well. (It's especially creepy because sometimes, I'll wake up from a dream where I'm not me but my close friend, and only realize that I'm me when my "time for work" alarm rings.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jul 2020, 14:36
Global Moderator Comment I'm getting a bit uncomfortable. Remember to avoid getting personal.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 07 Jul 2020, 18:11
It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2020, 18:22
(https://almightypopcorn.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/monty-python-no-singing.png)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jul 2020, 18:25
Station has enough money to make a difference but I don't know if he'd be interested.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 07 Jul 2020, 20:02
How much does Station himself have to pay for his/their own upkeep, tho?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 07 Jul 2020, 20:07
Station would have to sell off his shares in the company, I'm not sure if he'd want to do that.

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 07 Jul 2020, 21:08
As I understand it, the most ideal system[1] is a hybridization of capitalism and socialism called 'regulated capitalism'.[2] America even used to use it until Reaganomics came along[3] and started removing the regulations put in place.[4]

[1]apart from a benevolent dictatorship
[2] not an exact even split, more like 2:1 or 3:1.
[3]though its undermining began during the McCarthy era with bills to "protect democracy"
[4]large amounts of deregulation also occurred during the Clinton years, with smaller continued batches throughout the Bush Jr W Bush and Obama years
It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.

Though, you've got to admire Jeph's ability to visually represent vibration in a single frame through optical illusion(s).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 07 Jul 2020, 22:08
[1.5]until that benevolent dictator dies
[3.5]and was accelerated by the termination of the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1971.


i prefer to think of the ideal not as a hybrid of capitalism and socialism but as capitalism paired with a sane public policy. it would help everyone across the political spectrum to distinguish between system of govt, economic system, legal system, and public policy. constitutional democracy and markets are clearly the best that humanity has mustered so far, but you shouldn't go profit seeking in the political realm and you shouldn't look to your economic system in questions of ethics. the debate should all be in the public policy realm but we do have fundamental errors to fix in the legal system in the meantime. IMO, first error to tackle: how do we remove the privilege of limited liability incorporation? and yes, i mean the very idea of it as a legal construction.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 07 Jul 2020, 22:15
Just to recap:

#4301
Landon: I'd like to help, but I don't have any money.

#4302
Beepatrice: How did it go?
Roko: They'd like to help, but they don't have any money.

#4303
Arthur Nelson: How did it go?
Beepatrice: They'd like to help, but they don't have any money.

Presumably, Femto's identity remains steadfast.

P.S. With regards to the political discussion that has sprung up. FYI there's a thread for that.

Thought exercise: Redesign Government (https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34155.0.html)

thishasbeenacommunityserviceannouncement
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 07 Jul 2020, 23:15
I wonder if Nelson is getting flashbacks to the previous senior of the organisation... before they retired to become a statue?

It's a shame about the howl of frustration, Beeps was probably about to break into song.

I'm increasingly sure that there will be an awkward attempted confession of adoration at some point in Beepatrice's future and Roko will either completely fail to understand the babbling words or be in that most awkward of social positions: Having to tell a good friend  that it's unrequited.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 08 Jul 2020, 09:44
Either of those are possible, and so is Beeps just mooning around Roko, who remains oblivious, until Yay spills Beeps beans in front of Roko, causing who knows what kind of weirdness (depends on who else is around:  Emily?  Mille?  Winslow?  Or bog help everyone: May?!?)...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 08 Jul 2020, 12:41
i don't think Beeps has the courage to bring it up, or perhaps even to admit it to herself.


maybe Nelson has a pile of cash hanging around somewhere. he's always looking sharp. unlike the rest of the volunteers, we don't know anything about his side gig.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 08 Jul 2020, 15:05
He dresses for the job he wants.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: celticgeek on 08 Jul 2020, 18:34
I have a scanner which thinks that everything I copy should be in PDF.  It is a real pain.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: N.N. Marf on 08 Jul 2020, 19:20
I have a scanner which thinks that everything I copy should be in PDF.  It is a real pain.
Same here. The vendors must be under the impression that we only ever scan documents. I'd rather it just give me whatever its sensors sense in whatever format is as raw as possible---so long as it's an open format that can be translated to a format that's actually useful. (Although I admit that sometimes, that format is PDF. Maybe someday "computer vision" and "natural language processing" will be advanced enough for the scanner to output all the semantical relationships and enough aesthetical data to be able to reproduce the original document printed like the original. I think I recently have too much free time that I'm even able to wonder about that.)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: alc40 on 08 Jul 2020, 19:44
Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4177)?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 08 Jul 2020, 19:53
I'd rather it just give me whatever its sensors sense in whatever format is as raw as possible---so long as it's an open format that can be translated to a format that's actually useful.
You'll get some awfully big scan files if everything defaults to uncompressed TIFFs.

My scanner defaults to PDF if you tell it to scan a document, and JPG if you tell it to scan an image. I can't remember off-hand if there are other options; the defaults work pretty well for me. (The software also allows you to select the pages to be included in the PDF, move them around, and so on before it actually creates the final PDF, which is handy from time to time.) It's a lot easier to manage a single multi-page PDF than a bunch of image files - for example if you need to upload a bunch of proofs of identity along with your completed form it's good to be able to chuck it all into one document.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 08 Jul 2020, 20:01
Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 08 Jul 2020, 20:22
i bet you're right but it would be nice to see May at least get a donation from Dr. E-C. i get that her suffering is supposed to serve as a cause to rally behind for change, but i've never been a fan of that kind of perspective. it unnecessarily prolongs terrible circumstances for individuals who might actually have a reasonable solution available to them. just ask the Palestinians.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 08 Jul 2020, 20:34
Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4177)?


It doesn't say so specifically (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4181)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 08 Jul 2020, 20:40
Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.


Just because someone has the money, doesn't mean they want to spend the money.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 08 Jul 2020, 21:05
Today sets a new record for the number of posts I got through before it dawned on me that you must be talking about a new comic (five).

So, for everyone else like me in the cheap seats - there is a new comic.

I'd like to know what document exchange format people of the future use. Because, like Jeph says, they are indeed like a democracy. I think we're stuck with them for awhlie.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 08 Jul 2020, 22:08
maybe it's all leading up to Roko embracing the dark side, kissing the ring, and asking Yay to do whatever they need to do to make something happen...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 08 Jul 2020, 22:58
Betcha it's another 'no.'

Tho considering the weird stuff that comes up (Pizza vis re-entry vehicle) the money and/or resources SHOULD be there.

Maybe that's what happened to the original document.  Dr EC used one of his pizza delivery re entry  vehicles and it overheated the paper.


Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 08 Jul 2020, 23:32
Am I the only one here who quite happily uses PDFs for his employer's official documents and scans and has no problem with the format at all?

Anyway, it figures that Dr John would insist on using 'proven technology'... Including putting paper hard copy in a re-entry capsule that was designed to cook a pizza during its flight. I don't know how hot you have to make an oven to cook a pizza during the five minutes or so of re-entry but I'm sure it's hot enough to make paper anoxically incinerate! It's kind of odd that a man who is a blue sky thinker and a proven innovator feels more comfortable with tools that have been around the block a few times. I suppose when you're living with the Alpha phase of technology pretty much 24/7, you'd feel happier with stuff that you know has had time to be debugged!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 08 Jul 2020, 23:33
Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4177)?
I blame hipsters.  :laugh:

Though, it wouldn't surprise me if the company had some with that WhoopsieGuard (TM).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 08 Jul 2020, 23:37
Am I the only one here who quite happily uses PDFs for his employer's official documents and scans and has no problem with the format at all?

Anyway, it figures that Dr John would insist on using 'proven technology'... Including putting paper hard copy in a re-entry capsule that was designed to cook a pizza during its flight. I don't know how hot you have to make an oven to cook a pizza during the five minutes or so of re-entry but I'm sure it's hot enough to make paper anoxically incinerate! It's kind of odd that a man who is a blue sky thinker and a proven innovator feels more comfortable with tools that have been around the block a few times. I suppose when you're living with the Alpha phase of technology pretty much 24/7, you'd feel happier with stuff that you know has had time to be debugged!

For me, it's less the format and more the Adobe.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Y on 09 Jul 2020, 01:06
The ability to print to PDF reduced to need to ever print something, at least for me. And you could pass around something formatted without worrying about macro viruses and passing along identifying information. In universities some professors distributed postscript versions of the coursework, some of which crashed the postscript printer.

I heard some years ago that NASA still use(s/d) Commodore chips in their satellites, and were buying game consoles like the one I had for the chip.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2020, 01:36
I prefer PDFs to the days when people used to pass around (or worse, expect you to create) MS Word documents.

On the other hand, I am very aware that the PDF that some software creates is absolute turd (because I once had a job that involved developing software that rendered them).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jul 2020, 01:57
For me the greatest annoyance I have with PDFs (apart from the fact that Acrobat Reader is now basically a huge advert for Adobe's premium PDF services) is the difference in performance. Try to convert an .docx to a .pdf and it comes out as a few dozen kB at most. Physically scan it into PDF format and the resulting file is 1-2MB per page. I'm pretty sure that it is something to do with how a scanner reacts to black-on-white text but it makes uploading scanned files to third parties a nightmare.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2020, 02:48
That is because a .docx text document converted to PDF is represented quite compactly as a bunch of text and some commands to select fonts and place it. Whereas a scanned document is an image - maybe an uncompressed one? - with maybe some OCR'd text annotations.

Acrobat Pro (sorry) would probably be able to make it much smaller.

There are probably other programs around that can do something similar.

I should probably point out - sorry again - that compared to Acrobat Pro, Adobe Acrobat Reader does a shit job of rendering PDFs. It's fine for most people's use, but for professional use where you care very much about accurate rendering, it's not at all fine.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 09 Jul 2020, 04:31
Wait, I thought that Roko's user manual was a PDF (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4177)?

It doesn't say so specifically (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4181)

The original linked comic also doesn't say it in-universe, but Jeph's title says it.  The question now is whether what Jeph says outside the bounding lines of the comic is or is not canon...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: jwhouk on 09 Jul 2020, 05:10
The main reason why I save files as PDF's is for readability and portability.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2020, 05:30
The original linked comic also doesn't say it in-universe, but Jeph's title says it.  The question now is whether what Jeph says outside the bounding lines of the comic is or is not canon...

Honestly, I don't think it's worth putting too much stock on the fact that two one-off jokes that Jeph has made, both apparently motivated by his dislike of PDFs, seem to contradict each other in-universe. It's hard enough for him to keep track of all his minor characters' names*, let alone every little joke he's made in the margins of his comics.

* That came off sounding critical, but I genuinely think that would be difficult to keep track of all these little details.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: dutchrvl on 09 Jul 2020, 06:42
I don't see the problem with PDFs myself. Is it perfect, hell no. But for ease and portability (not to mention keep size limited), it easily beats other formats.

Word docs are a nightmare to me compared to PDFs.
I do wonder what format Jeph likes then, and wonder if his dislike of PDFs is at least in part due to issues creating PDFs of his comics(?)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Jul 2020, 07:44
I have no problem with pdfs at all, at least in their creation.  Then again, I use LaTeX, and everything is perfectly formatted and typeset.  Of course, editing them later is an exercise in endless frustration.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 09 Jul 2020, 08:08
PDF is a proprietary standard that became popular then became an actual standard but is still largely run by the originating company for their own apps and is thus grossly inefficient and occasionally prone to breaking existing readers when new features are added. But it remains popular because only five people use XPS and no one knows DjVu even exists.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 09 Jul 2020, 08:38
My only experience with pdf's is as a reader of (primarily rpg) books. I've never actually created one, so I don't know how difficult they are to work with, but as a consumer I have never had any difficulties with them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 09 Jul 2020, 08:49
Most of mine are game books, and even better, at least on a Mac, the desktop search has them all OCRed, so if I don't know exactly which splatbook something is in, I can easily find it.  Creating them is easy enough using free software, using varying definitions of "easy".  Editing them, however, is another beast entirely.  I haven't found any non-paid software that does so in an acceptable manner.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: wiserd on 09 Jul 2020, 11:16
"PDFs are like democracy." .... mine was corrupted by Russia?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 09 Jul 2020, 18:30
Oh dear. A proposition for fully socialized healthcare (for A.I.).

That's going to cause some disturbance.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 09 Jul 2020, 19:15
I expect there's going to be complications....

(Wonder if Yay, Newfriend's money will factor into this?)

I love Roko's stunned look at the end. :D
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 09 Jul 2020, 19:43
Physically scan it into PDF format and the resulting file is 1-2MB per page.

This is a subject I care about. Mostly because I've had to deal with transmitting scanned documents for real estate, and it's a huge PITA.

Tova's correct. The issue is scanning. Scanners take a photo of the image, and send the photo. Photos are complex, bulky objects. You're sending an image of the word instead of the word.

With scanned documents, you can apply optical character recognition (OCR) to turn that image into text, but usually this does a very bad job. Even if you're using an expensive, professional tool like Acrobat Pro, the program is still pretty uncertain if there's stuff in that image you care about beyond just the text, and the result is a file that's much, much bigger than a Word or properly authored PDF document.

There are free to use web pages that try and fix scanned documents, but again, they don't do a great job. Mainly because the program can never be sure if there's an actual image in there, in addition to the text it can recognize.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 09 Jul 2020, 19:56
Oh dear. A proposition for fully socialized healthcare (for A.I.).

It seems fairly often that when I'm discussing some issue or another, it turns out that the only real answer is fully socialized healthcare. It's kind of nice to see QC veer into the same territory.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 09 Jul 2020, 20:27
It seems fairly often that when I'm discussing some issue or another, it turns out that the only real answer is fully socialized healthcare. It's kind of nice to see QC veer into the same territory.

It appears to be a common occurrence when people are discussing the struggles of modern society. Of course there's always the threat of idealization...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: ANeM on 09 Jul 2020, 21:03
While I'm certain Mae will be thrilled to hear about the progress made towards getting her a better body, I feel she will still be annoyed at the prospect of becoming a major civil rights icon.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 09 Jul 2020, 21:05
Okay, now I have to know how the Hell Hanners' parents got together.
I know folks can change over time (for better or worse), but DAYUM!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 09 Jul 2020, 21:31
It's been a long week, but we've had a plot development!

Roko should contact Momo at this point. She will swing in behind this movement. Oh, and wait until Hanners learns of this.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: dreed on 09 Jul 2020, 22:46
Did not know pdf is disliked...

I work in finance industry.
50 percent of files we use are pdf and other 50 are excel.
With other files being such a minor thing.
Its super annoying when we get png or BMP for documents.
Cause then editing trimming merging is so much more time consuming.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: awkwardness on 09 Jul 2020, 22:57
...better than snapping turtles- those things are vicious!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Sorflakne on 09 Jul 2020, 22:58
Coincidentally, a friend in Discord dropped this line recently:

Quote
PDFs are like democracy, they're not perfect but all the alternatives are worse

I have no strong feelings for or against PDF format.  It does what it does, and works where it's effective, and like anything, can be misused.  Though yes, for most stuff on the web where PDFs are used, HTML, markdown, etc are better options 95% of the time.  Can't speak for mobile use, as personally I dislike using a tiny screen for document reading and handling, and just document handling in general since the vast majority of phones make it a pain in the ass without 3rd party apps or jailbreaking.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: ZoeB on 09 Jul 2020, 23:09
I wonder if "bodies" includes fighter jets?
May might be interested in that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 09 Jul 2020, 23:21
Okay, Doc, that's nice. I'm sure that this will drive some real and beneficial change to how keeping people (both biological and synthetic) healthy is viewed as a responsibility of the wider community in about ten to twenty years time. What happens to May right now?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 09 Jul 2020, 23:30
Dunno about May but assuming F&B can get certified/registered it pretty much guarantees their future. Or dooms them completely if they can’t.
Also, 20 years? If Mr E-C has enough pull (or money, which is the same thing) to have his own space station, the law could be on the books in 20 weeks.
Which is possibly around about when the humans start asking where their free healthcare is…
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: HotDog_Meat_Mishap on 10 Jul 2020, 00:28
Okay, Doc, that's nice. I'm sure that this will drive some real and beneficial change to how keeping people (both biological and synthetic) healthy is viewed as a responsibility of the wider community in about ten to twenty years time. What happens to May right now?

(IICIH here. User was banned but we spoilerized the posts instead of removing them.)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 10 Jul 2020, 00:50
Feel better?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: DSL on 10 Jul 2020, 00:59
The problem with success beyond your dreams is figuring out what to do now.
An oil tanker is potentially more valuable than a tuna, sure, but they make lousy casseroles and sandwiches. You've got to figure out something else do to!

Of course, my first boss would have simply said: What a great problem to have. Took me a while to grow up enough to miss that guy.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jul 2020, 01:18
Heh-heh!  The NHS for AIs!  And it took an aged mad scientist to suggest it...
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jul 2020, 01:23
Then he'll find another SJW hot-button to pander to.

Using the abbreviation "SJW" has the effect of obscuring that the "J" stands for Justice

Do you feel that the urge to encourage justice is a bad thing?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jul 2020, 01:26
It seems fairly often that when I'm discussing some issue or another, it turns out that the only real answer is fully socialized healthcare. It's kind of nice to see QC veer into the same territory.

It appears to be a common occurrence when people are discussing the struggles of modern society. Of course there's always the threat of idealization...

And regardless of either, there will always be those who are duped into going against change that would benefit everybody because incredibly selfish people tell them that whatever it is, "that's socialism" and they've been convinced 'socialism bad' without questioning just who it's "bad" for.

I've been dealing with relatives who wholeheartedly believe the current American healthcare system is socialized medicine despite it being the antithesis of socialized medicine. It's very frustrating.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Y on 10 Jul 2020, 01:27
Since it's a legislation it looks like something that can take many years to pass and implement. Roko should find something that could help May in the more immediate future, something like an ordinance. Unless legislation only takes little time in QC's reality.

Emulators for emulators, sounds like something we need in few months to use Adobe's other (acquired) product.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 10 Jul 2020, 01:34
(IICIH here. Added spoiler tags to the quote, which breaks the civility rule but which might interest someone later.)
(click to show/hide)


This seems unnecessarily vitriolic.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 10 Jul 2020, 01:37
Personally, I quite like happy endings. The world is a scary place, and I don't need the webcomics I read to be all doom-and-gloom. I want them to make me feel better, if only for a little while.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jul 2020, 01:48
@Hotdog_Meat_Mishap,

Er... Wow! Sorry, I wasn't saying that working for a community-oriented approach to health provision was bad, I was just saying that, even with handwavium magic tech, it takes time something like a responsive public health system in place and working something approaching reliabily and that I really think that May's problem needs an Immediate solution.

Um... but I hope that you feel better having got that off of your chest.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 10 Jul 2020, 01:55
Since it's a legislation it looks like something that can take many years to pass and implement. Roko should find something that could help May in the more immediate future, something like an ordinance. Unless legislation only takes little time in QC's reality.

Emulators for emulators, sounds like something we need in few months to use Adobe's other (acquired) product.

Shit, I had almost forgotten Flash even existed. And I've _written_ things in Flash :shudder:

EDIT: not by own initiative. And yeah, if PDF (or Adobe in general) stopped existing today, that would be great.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: JoeCovenant on 10 Jul 2020, 01:59
Makes me laugh.

Groovy!
It's a comic - it's supposed to. :)
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jul 2020, 03:44
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that basic civil rights and social justice for all are the unattainable and undesirable fantasies of a lunatic fringe. Just saying.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jul 2020, 03:59
Emulators for emulators, sounds like something we need in few months to use Adobe's other (acquired) product.

It happens in real life.  For some years I programmed an embedded system using a chip (Zilog Z8) which had a (cut down) Basic interpreter built in (I wasn't using that, but my boss was).  When I had to debug an interference between my boss's Basic program and my interrupt driver for data collection, I de-compiled the code of the interpreter, and found that it was indeed written in an intermediate language which was then interpreted in turn.  That debugging took two months solid work (one of the most enjoyable times of my career), but the product it enabled remains on the market twenty-five years on, so I guess it was worth it.

The interference was that the interpreter tested a memory base-register which I used for data storage for zero by incrementing it and then using a decrement-jump-if-zero instruction; the test was required because the chip could be used in a no-external-memory configuration, and was done in many places, but only once in the way I just outlined.  If my interrupt occurred between these two instructions, then I stored data in the wrong place, which caused havoc - I fixed it by making my own local copy of the base register on startup.  Since the problem only manifested once or twice a week, it took a while for my boss to trust that I really had fixed it!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 10 Jul 2020, 04:16
PDF?
Locked down and secured so that it can't be changed after the final edit?
Damn right.

It is the ONLY approved transportable electronic file format allowed by the FDA otherwise it is either proprietary software or paper.
Let that sink in paper or proprietary.
Paper takes up space and the file and search functions suuuuuuuuuck.
Proprietary means you are locked to one vendor and if your OS changes you HAVE TO use an emulator and make regular sacrifices to the code gods or you will loose all access to your documents.

Adobe?
That bloated miscreant?
It copies everything and stores it all on adobes cloud servers for your convenience unless IT has managed to cut the umbilical.
Data security is everything in my industry and sadly Adobe doesn't have that feature because their servers are in the states.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 04:51
Then he'll find another SJW hot-button to pander to.

Using the abbreviation "SJW" has the effect of obscuring that the "J" stands for Justice

Do you feel that the urge to encourage justice is a bad thing?

Just because a words in there doesn't make it so, North Korea is officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea after all and i don't think they're big on democracy
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: jwhouk on 10 Jul 2020, 04:58
While I'm certain Mae will be thrilled to hear about the progress made towards getting her a better body, I feel she will still be annoyed at the prospect of becoming a major civil rights icon.

I don't think Mae is really worried about that right now. She's having a conversation with Greg (https://reallifecomics.com/comic.php?comic=july-10-2020) about who they really are...

...oh, wait, you meant May, didn't you? Sorry.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Jul 2020, 05:50
Then he'll find another SJW hot-button to pander to.

Using the abbreviation "SJW" has the effect of obscuring that the "J" stands for Justice

Do you feel that the urge to encourage justice is a bad thing?

Just because a words in there doesn't make it so, North Korea is officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea after all and i don't think they're big on democracy
You should consider that the only people that call North Korea that are the assholes that named it that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 06:23
Then he'll find another SJW hot-button to pander to.

Using the abbreviation "SJW" has the effect of obscuring that the "J" stands for Justice

Do you feel that the urge to encourage justice is a bad thing?

Just because a words in there doesn't make it so, North Korea is officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea after all and i don't think they're big on democracy
You should consider that the only people that call North Korea that are the assholes that named it that.

Point still stands, just because you call yourself a SJW doesn't mean you're interested in justice, much like how Antifa are more fascist then the groups they target
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Jul 2020, 06:36
Did not know pdf is disliked...

I work in finance industry.
50 percent of files we use are pdf and other 50 are excel.
With other files being such a minor thing.
Its super annoying when we get png or BMP for documents.
Cause then editing trimming merging is so much more time consuming.
I was about to comment how surprised you'll be when you hear physicists' attitude toward Excel, but... holy cow, people actually use PNG and BMP for documents? Who are these people!?  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 07:41
Quote
Are you proud of what you've accomplished?

Well for what its worth you have my respect, I'm a Corrections Officer and I couldn't do what you do with the obstacles that you face
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: JimC on 10 Jul 2020, 07:46
Quote
It was all about putting them ahead of everyone else and justifying it on the grounds that said the group is special
I think that's a stretch.  Goverment/policy by single issue activists has all the evil effects you highlight, but that doesn't mean its about putting one group ahead of another. The thing about single issue activists, whether political, environmental or anything else, is that by definition they are utterly blinkered and incapable of seeing the big picture. A classic example is the promotion of diesel cars in Europe which has led to the reduced CO2 emissions the activists wanted, but at the price of catastrophic levels of particulate pollution. The BLM activists didn't want funding removed from the groups you mention, they were simply so far off their radar that they didn't consider them at all.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jul 2020, 07:58
Social Justice as espoused by the SJW-type person has little to do with social justice.

Bear in mind that the people who are decried by others as being SJWs don't in general call themselves that - the epithet is typically applied by others, so often misses the target.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: HotDog_Meat_Mishap on 10 Jul 2020, 08:01
Quote
Are you proud of what you've accomplished?

Well for what its worth you have my respect, I'm a Corrections Officer and I couldn't do what you do with the obstacles that you face

The good news is you won't have to do your job much longer if the more militant and vocal members of BLM get what they want.     I mean in a world where police are powerless to charge anyone with a crime out of fear of triggering a race riot what need do we have of correctional services?

Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Jul 2020, 08:04
Quote
Are you proud of what you've accomplished?

Well for what its worth you have my respect, I'm a Corrections Officer and I couldn't do what you do with the obstacles that you face

The good news is you won't have to do your job much longer if the more militant and vocal members of BLM get what they want.     I mean in a world where police are powerless to charge anyone with a crime out of fear of triggering a race riot what need do we have of correctional services?
So what you’re saying is you’d be perfectly happy if the cops treated you exactly the same way they treat BAME people?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 08:19
Quote
The good news is you won't have to do your job much longer if the more militant and vocal members of BLM get what they want.     I mean in a world where police are powerless to charge anyone with a crime out of fear of triggering a race riot what need do we have of correctional services?

Well I live in NZ so it won't get that far but we also have our share of idiots who want to shut down prisons, don't get me wrong I'd love to be out of a job because theres no crims but it just isn't going to happen any time soon
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 08:23
Quote
So what you’re saying is you’d be perfectly happy if the cops treated you exactly the same way they treat BAME people?

Cathy Newman nods her head sagely
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 10 Jul 2020, 08:26
And regardless of either, there will always be those who are duped into going against change that would benefit everybody because incredibly selfish people tell them that whatever it is, "that's socialism" and they've been convinced 'socialism bad' without questioning just who it's "bad" for.

I've been dealing with relatives who wholeheartedly believe the current American healthcare system is socialized medicine despite it being the antithesis of socialized medicine. It's very frustrating.

You have my sympathies. I live in Europe but I'm aware of those groups which argue that anything which is even remotely linked to socialism is automatically bad and evil and wrong and STOP THINKING ABOUT SOCIALISM EMBRACE CAPITALISM.

It's rather difficult to discuss progress and alternatives which might be better than the current system when a large amount of the populace has been brainwashed into thinking that the status quo is the best we're going to get and any alternative must be purged from people's minds because it's the work of the devil.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Jul 2020, 08:33
(IICIH here. Insulting material in the quote has been spoilerized.)
Okay, Doc, that's nice. I'm sure that this will drive some real and beneficial change to how keeping people (both biological and synthetic) healthy is viewed as a responsibility of the wider community in about ten to twenty years time. What happens to May right now?
(click to show/hide)

Alright, so you've so far just come here to spout a lot of vitriol and frustrations, even though you do seem to have some legitimate arguments supporting your views on what is not going right with current movements. If you at some point settle down in terms of frustration/anger and are willing to further engage in normal conversation/discussion here, showing a willingness to hear varying viewpoints, then that would be great, because I am interested in your actual viewpoints.

I will say though that you do not make a great impression when you state things like "how to use fake repressed rape-trauma as a career stepping stone". Are you implying that this is widespread? Or that rape-trauma repression is by generally fake? For the former I'd like to know how you've come to the conclusion that it's widespread, if it's the latter then you're simply dead wrong, unless you feel your assessment is superior to many decades of scientific research.

I will also say that if you seriously feel like white people are somehow being "oppressed" right now, then I wonder if you've been paying attention, or of you simply are equating 'being oppressed' to 'losing some of the privilege'. I have similar issues with the baffling notion some people have that Christians are being oppressed. And I am saying all this as a Christian and extremely white male. Also, in case you're wondering: yes I am very aware of my privileged position in life, and no I am not ashamed of it, because I don't think I need to be ashamed of something out of my control. But I am aware of it, and I am trying to help, where I can, to help others (not black people only) to have a semblance of an equal situation to my own.     
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 10 Jul 2020, 08:38
Can the trolls stop derailing our discussion about file formats? Do as I do and don't read their posts.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Jul 2020, 08:38
And regardless of either, there will always be those who are duped into going against change that would benefit everybody because incredibly selfish people tell them that whatever it is, "that's socialism" and they've been convinced 'socialism bad' without questioning just who it's "bad" for.

I've been dealing with relatives who wholeheartedly believe the current American healthcare system is socialized medicine despite it being the antithesis of socialized medicine. It's very frustrating.

You have my sympathies. I live in Europe but I'm aware of those groups which argue that anything which is even remotely linked to socialism is automatically bad and evil and wrong and STOP THINKING ABOUT SOCIALISM EMBRACE CAPITALISM.

It's rather difficult to discuss progress and alternatives which might be better than the current system when a large amount of the populace has been brainwashed into thinking that the status quo is the best we're going to get and any alternative must be purged from people's minds because it's the work of the devil.

I may have mentioned this before, but I am from Europe too (but living in the US for over 10 years now), and one of the things that still baffles me is how self-centered the US society is, and how many people seem to be unwilling to learn from other societies/countries out of a weird notion that the US is by definition superior in every way. Being proud of your country is one thing (and nothing wrong with that), but having the mindset that your country is superior will hold you back, because if you think you're superior to all other countries, why would you ever try to learn from them?
Politicians, even our current president, like to point to countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden as doing so well in general, yet they don't seem to be that interested in actually trying to implement similar policies as in those countries.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 10 Jul 2020, 08:39
Can the trolls stop derailing our discussion about file formats?

Sorry friend, socialism is the new hip term of the thread.

EDIT:
I may have mentioned this before, but I am from Europe too (but living in the US for over 10 years now), and one of the things that still baffles me is how self-centered the US society is, and how many people seem to be unwilling to learn from other societies/countries out of a weird notion that the US is by definition superior in every way. Being proud of your country is one thing (and nothing wrong with that), but having the mindset that your country is superior will hold you back, because if you think you're superior to all other countries, why would you ever try to learn from them?
Politicians, even our current president, like to point to countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden as doing so well in general, yet they don't seem to be that interested in actually trying to implement similar policies as in those countries.

Definitely. The US has had decades of being told by the media and their leaders that the US is special, above every other country. The result is a culture of entitlement and overblown egos where the slightest implication that the US might not be ahead of everyone else or even lagging behind is taken as a direct attack.

For example from how I understand it Trump took it as a personal insult to his great nation when most European countries said they don't want large scale travel between Europe and the US right now when the truth is that the EU has been working hard to fight the covid-19 pandemic and we just don't want the rampant infection rate in the US to ruin our efforts.

Another thing which worries me about the US: everything is made into a political issue. Somehow wearing masks is a political issue. How did that happen?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Jul 2020, 08:45
Can the trolls stop derailing our discussion about file formats? Do as I do and don't read their posts.
Exactly. I tried bringing the topic back to PDF, but this thread keeps going down the toilet.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 10 Jul 2020, 08:50
Bear in mind that the people who are decried by others as being SJWs don't in general call themselves that - the epithet is typically applied by others, so often misses the target.
That's what people like these trolls often don't understand (or maybe they do, but don't care anyway): they've made up a label for "these people I don't like" (SJW), and then act as if there's an organized group of people who are out to be malicious to them, when in fact they're a semi-organised mob who intrude into other people's conversations with their rants.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: dutchrvl on 10 Jul 2020, 09:06
PDF is a proprietary standard that became popular then became an actual standard but is still largely run by the originating company for their own apps and is thus grossly inefficient and occasionally prone to breaking existing readers when new features are added. But it remains popular because only five people use XPS and no one knows DjVu even exists.

I was interested in the DjVu format you mentioned, and was then rapidly disappointed to learn that it has basically died a while ago already :(

AH well, sticking to PDFs it is for now....My only problem with it really is the near-monopolistic position of Adobe when it comes to editing them
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Jul 2020, 09:09
Back when I was in grad school, I was given a large collection of... less than legally-obtained... physics textbooks in DjVu format. It was a useful format, but even back then it was hard to find good software for that format.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 10 Jul 2020, 09:26
(big snip)

Are you proud of what you've accomplished?

So you think that the goal of the BLM protests was to get all other social programs defunded?

Well, right now I’m sure that the people who defunded your program are very proud of what they have accomplished, which is to get you mad at the wrong people for the wrong things.

You’re treating social justice as a zero-sum game - more justice for some must necessarily mean less justice for others. Congratulations, you’ve walked right into their trap. Now you’re blaming people who just wanted the same rights as everyone else, instead of the people who actually looted your program.

None of this has to be zero-sum. Your funding didn’t have to be pulled to support BLM, and nobody in BLM was demanding that. A choice was made by people in power to execute this in such a way as to divide people rather than unite them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 10 Jul 2020, 09:27
PDF is a proprietary standard that became popular then became an actual standard but is still largely run by the originating company for their own apps and is thus grossly inefficient and occasionally prone to breaking existing readers when new features are added. But it remains popular because only five people use XPS and no one knows DjVu even exists.

I was interested in the DjVu format you mentioned, and was then rapidly disappointed to learn that it has basically died a while ago already :(

AH well, sticking to PDFs it is for now....My only problem with it really is the near-monopolistic position of Adobe when it comes to editing them
Yeah, I’ve encountered it exactly once in a whole career in IT. It’s a cool technology but that’s pretty much all. Even Microsoft putting an XPS virtual printer into every copy of Windows hasn’t gotten it much recognition so anything more obscure than ‘already part of the majority of consumer pcs’ won’t get a look in.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 10 Jul 2020, 09:41
I have also only encountered DjVu once - and that was not even as part of my life-long IT career!
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jul 2020, 11:43
Hannerdad doesn't strike me as the sort to be politically effective. He can hire people for that of course.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Jul 2020, 11:47
I find it interesting that Hannerdad's company may benefit financially from his proposal: if the government passed universal AI maintenance coverage, they would need to build up capability quickly, which would mean relying on private sector companies that already have the necessary experience, such as Hannerdad's company.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 10 Jul 2020, 12:46
@cesium133,

Although, in fairness to Dr John, that's the sort of thing Beatrice would have thought of, not him.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 10 Jul 2020, 12:58
I don’t remember whether it was here or in Patreon, but I saw someone posting with a question about how they got together. Perhaps they’re more similar than they would like to admit.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jul 2020, 13:25
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that basic civil rights and social justice for all are the unattainable and undesirable fantasies of a lunatic fringe. Just saying.

Social engineering has done a great deal of damage over the last 40 to 50 years.


EDIT: Yes, my above response is also in regards to the giant clusterfuck that ensued on the previous page.
The divide-and-conquer method has worked all to well to keep the general populace from fighting back against an increasingly oligarchical rule.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 10 Jul 2020, 14:03
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that basic civil rights and social justice for all are the unattainable and undesirable fantasies of a lunatic fringe. Just saying.

Social engineering has done a great deal of damage over the last 40 to 50 years.

It's pretty easy to achieve as long as you focus on reminding people that if everyone gets basic civil rights and social justice, that also means the groups they don't agree with get it. There's not a lot of forces in the world more powerful than spite.

Of course that's part of why it's so damaging. The ridiculous level of effectiveness.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jul 2020, 14:05
I don’t remember whether it was here or in Patreon, but I saw someone posting with a question about how they got together. Perhaps they’re more similar than they would like to admit.

That would be me.

I'm guessing a company mixer or they used to be more alike. Jeph only knows for now.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jul 2020, 14:14
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that basic civil rights and social justice for all are the unattainable and undesirable fantasies of a lunatic fringe. Just saying.

Social engineering has done a great deal of damage over the last 40 to 50 years.

It's pretty easy to achieve as long as you focus on reminding people that if everyone gets basic civil rights and social justice, that also means the groups they don't agree with get it. There's not a lot of forces in the world more powerful than spite.

Of course that's part of why it's so damaging. The ridiculous level of effectiveness.
It goes beyond that, though.

Here's a pretty basic illustration: There's a plate with three cookies and three people are present. The rich guy leans over to the white guy a tells him "The black guy is trying to steal your cookie." While the white guy isn't looking, the rich guy takes all three cookies and leaves the other two with only half of the thiird cookie.

It's the manipulation and instillment of fear and distrust. It's the pushing of learned helplessness. It's the discouragement of non-aggressive communication between groups. And it all takes place over several years while playing the long game.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 10 Jul 2020, 14:19
It goes beyond that, though.

Here's a pretty basic illustration: There's a plate with three cookies and three people are present. The rich guy leans over to the white guy a tells him "The black guy is trying to steal your cookie." While the white guy isn't looking, the rich guy takes all three cookies and leaves the other two with only half of the thiird cookie.

It's the manipulation and instillment of fear and distrust. It's the pushing of learned helplessness. It's the discouragement of non-aggressive communication between groups. And it all takes place over several years while playing the long game.

It's both honestly. At the core of it all lies the fact that different groups have trouble getting along which then gets exploited in various ways, from amplifying the distrust to actively encouraging people to be antagonistic towards one another.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 10 Jul 2020, 14:33
That's what people like these trolls often don't understand (or maybe they do, but don't care anyway): they've made up a label for "these people I don't like" (SJW)

exacly. see also "all trump supporters are racist" and "all liberals are progressives"


You’re treating social justice as a zero-sum game - more justice for some must necessarily mean less justice for others. Congratulations, you’ve walked right into their trap. Now you’re blaming people who just wanted the same rights as everyone else, instead of the people who actually looted your program.

None of this has to be zero-sum. Your funding didn’t have to be pulled to support BLM, and nobody in BLM was demanding that. A choice was made by people in power to execute this in such a way as to divide people rather than unite them.


of course it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. but since it's politics in the US, then it certainly will be.

any group attempting to make a difference through politics is doomed to fail because US politics has failed. and that is because discussion has failed and we can blame traditional media narratives and social media algorithms for that. if you are not engaged with the other side, then you are almost certainly not making a difference in your community.

as far as BLM goes, there is only one real solution and it's a total Law Enforcement overhaul including exponentially increasing funding to pay for training, routine psych evals, increased oversight, etc. and they should all have to reapply for their jobs. i was also a big fan of Andrew Yang's idea of requiring all LEO's to attain purple belts in jujitsu.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 10 Jul 2020, 14:35
It goes beyond that, though.

Here's a pretty basic illustration: There's a plate with three cookies and three people are present. The rich guy leans over to the white guy a tells him "The black guy is trying to steal your cookie." While the white guy isn't looking, the rich guy takes all three cookies and leaves the other two with only half of the thiird cookie.

It's the manipulation and instillment of fear and distrust. It's the pushing of learned helplessness. It's the discouragement of non-aggressive communication between groups. And it all takes place over several years while playing the long game.

It's both honestly. At the core of it all lies the fact that different groups have trouble getting along which then gets exploited in various ways, from amplifying the distrust to actively encouraging people to be antagonistic towards one another.
And all for the benefit of a very few incredibly selfish individuals.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Potato Farmer on 10 Jul 2020, 14:39
And all for the benefit of a very few incredibly selfish individuals.

Humanity's history repeated a couple of times.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: N.N. Marf on 10 Jul 2020, 14:42
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that basic civil rights and social justice for all are the unattainable and undesirable fantasies of a lunatic fringe. Just saying.
Want to know what bugs me? People who think that many people think that basic civil rights are undesirable. Just saying.

Just because a words in there doesn't make it so, North Korea is officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea after all and i don't think they're big on democracy
You should consider that the only people that call North Korea that are the assholes that named it that.
This is an important point. If it's not social justice, don't call it social justice. Don't even mention that someone thinks it's social justice---you're only spreading the misuse. Eventually, someone hears "social justice" about whatever that is so many times, that they start calling it "social justice". There's always someone who'll think that anything called that is that. So you get doublethink. You say "social justice is bad" and they hear you think that what is social justice is bad. Or you say "social justice is good" and they hear you think that what's called "social justice" is good. The problem is that we're using a term that has 2 opposite meanings.
Well for what its worth you have my respect, I'm a Corrections Officer and I couldn't do what you do with the obstacles that you face
For anyone that doesn't follow penal euphemisms, "corrections officer" means prison guard. By the way, I'm terribly sorry that you're in the sucky position of having to work for a prison.
The thing about single issue activists, whether political, environmental or anything else, is that by definition they are utterly blinkered and incapable of seeing the big picture.
By definition? I can understand that caring about only the one thing can make it easy to ignore other things, but I don't think that prevents them from being aware of other things. Of course, I can see how one might come to that conclusion. Most of my interactions with activists was when they're "on the job". Now, if I'm not mistaken, when the activist is working for an issue in the "raise awareness" department, he's probably going to talk about that one issue, not about some other issues. He could well care about other issues, but his present focus is on the one issue that he's presently working for. From the other perspective, a "general" activist, who cares about the "big picture", would have to choose whether to spread his efforts among all the issues he cares about, or to focus on trying to solve one specific issue. It's often the case that doing one thing at a time is more effective than doing multiple things at the same time. Of course, it's important to not forget about other issues, otherwise you might get a situation like you described about reducing one pollution while raising another.
The BLM activists didn't want funding removed from the groups you mention, they were simply so far off their radar that they didn't consider them at all.
Practically, there's no difference. Sure, their intentions might be clear, but if the result is funding goes from other issues to their issues, they're effectively taking that money from the other issues. Sure, it's not their fault that who they get money from simply redirects the funding, but if their intent isn't to take the help that others would have gotten, then that should be something they consider.

Perhaps they’re [Ellicott-Chatham] more similar than they would like to admit.
I thought it was quite natural. Not similarity, but the combination of the idealist (Ellicot) the pragmatist (Chatham). Another example is the Steves of Fruitbasket. Ellicot's position heading a powerful research company is probably due much to Chatham's business sense. Likewise, Chatham's industries being as powerful as they are today was probably aided by the ideas from Ellicott's mind. Together, they'd be quite powerful, but making such a union live long would probably take a lot of work.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 10 Jul 2020, 16:42
Quote
For anyone that doesn't follow penal euphemisms, "corrections officer" means prison guard. By the way, I'm terribly sorry that you're in the sucky position of having to work for a prison.

Its a small thing but the correct term is Corrections Officer and its not a euphemism for a prison guard (prison guard is not a term used anywhere in NZ).

I'm only speaking for NZ here but the term prison guard has connotations that are mostly incorrect (thanks Hollywood) as most of our day is spent keeping our prisoners (or Paihere if you prefer) safe (from each other), fed and occupied (with work or courses), any actual what you would consider guarding is a very small part of the day
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jul 2020, 17:18
One prison worker I knew made the mistake of participating in the ring that was bringing drugs into the prison. Her job had been supervising inmates. It was interesting to watch her vocabulary change over the course of her sentence. Her first letters referred to "C/Os", but by the end it was "guards".

She was in a US Federal prison and the Bureau of Prisons is plagued with problems. She was unimpressed by the personnel in charge of her life.

By all accounts, there are people who do their jobs without abuse or overreach. I respect their work -- it's obviously difficult. On the other hand, there were the people on CorrectionsOne saying "We're not happy until you're not happy".

In particular, I'm glad you are keeping them safe from each other. There have been many cases in US prisons of the authorities doing the opposite. I don't know how I would handle wolf/goat/cabbage problems with hundreds of participants.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 10 Jul 2020, 19:24
Personally, I quite like happy endings. The world is a scary place, and I don't need the webcomics I read to be all doom-and-gloom. I want them to make me feel better, if only for a little while.

That reminds me of what one of the trans people here said about how happy the Marten/Claire relationship was, answering criticism of it going unrealistically well.

I think it was ZoeB.

Something to the effect that if we can't have it in reality, we at least want it in fiction.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 11 Jul 2020, 00:36
[SNIP]
The BLM activists didn't want funding removed from the groups you mention, they were simply so far off their radar that they didn't consider them at all.
Practically, there's no difference. Sure, their intentions might be clear, but if the result is funding goes from other issues to their issues, they're effectively taking that money from the other issues. Sure, it's not their fault that who they get money from simply redirects the funding, but if their intent isn't to take the help that others would have gotten, then that should be something they consider.

[snip]

Please see aforementioned posts regarding social engineering and the deliberate breeding of mistrust between groups by manipulative bastards trying to protect the status quo while pushing it even more in favor of themselves.

That funding cut choice was very deliberate. And you've demonstrated the exact goal of the choice that was made; resentment.

Redirecting even a fraction of our country's incredibly bloated military budget could have paid for BOTH programs in their entirety.

EDIT: fixing spelling and formatting
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 11 Jul 2020, 04:52
Quote
That reminds me of what one of the trans people here said about how happy the Marten/Claire relationship was, answering criticism of it going unrealistically well.
I think it was ZoeB.
Something to the effect that if we can't have it in reality, we at least want it in fiction.

I see it somewhat differently, when they first started I thought it was going to open up new storylines for Marten, exploring the issues, seeing how Marten feels after the honeymoon period wears off etc etc instead we get a relationship that is boringly generic and instead we get some made up nonsense about Robots/AIs and humans

I do want Marten to have a happy ending I'd just like to see how he gets there is all
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2020, 09:30
That may yet happen. Jeph has foreshadowed tension between Claire's ambition and possible need to move for a job and Marten's inertia.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 11 Jul 2020, 15:41
That may yet happen. Jeph has foreshadowed tension between Claire's ambition and possible need to move for a job and Marten's inertia.

Which again has nothing to do with Claire being trans and would be reminiscent of Faye and her actor ex

It's almost as if the author doesn't want to talk about Claire at all except in the most superficial of ways, so why bother even having her in the strip
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2020, 16:30
Being a spur to Marten has already been significant.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 11 Jul 2020, 16:33
I don't think that it's just Marten and Claire.  Jeph seems to either have difficulty, or a strong dislike for happy relationships.  One by one (or two by two, as the case may be), happy couples seem to end up on a bus.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 11 Jul 2020, 16:45
I don’t think it’s a dislike as much as the inherent problem with a happy ending is that it is just that, an ending. Once you arrive, that’s it, story’s done, pack up the sets and go home. Which is obviously a problem in an ongoing serial that needs to continue indefinitely for its creator to remain fed and housed.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 11 Jul 2020, 16:46
That may yet happen. Jeph has foreshadowed tension between Claire's ambition and possible need to move for a job and Marten's inertia.

Which again has nothing to do with Claire being trans and would be reminiscent of Faye and her actor ex

It's almost as if the author doesn't want to talk about Claire at all except in the most superficial of ways, so why bother even having her in the strip

Jeph has confirmed that he had wanted to add a trans character for a very long time, and I think it's likely that it was Claire's original role. However, over the course of the comic, she's evolved out of that singular position. Yes, she's trans, and yes, that's an important part of her identity, but is her gender the only reason she's in the comic? Trans people still live normal lives outside of their gender identity. It's unfair to limit Claire only to that.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2020, 16:49
Our trans members have expressed approval that Claire is not The Trans Character but instead the redhead who squabbles with her brother  and is passionate about her work.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 11 Jul 2020, 17:59
I'm glad that she's grown, and is no longer just "Girl Clinton"
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 11 Jul 2020, 19:03
Also, if Claire had remained 'the trans character', then we would rightfully complain about her being one-dimensional.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 11 Jul 2020, 21:42
That's all very well and good, but how much further development of Claire's story have we seen at all? Them getting together is only "an ending" if you see QC purely as a relationship drama, and maybe you* do. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Jeph does as well. But he has set up story arcs beyond them merely getting together, and it would be nice if we could see that promise fulfilled.

Yes, I know that QC has a big cast, but so much time has been spent on the drama of Claire passing her exams, an outcome that has never been in any doubt whatsoever.

There has got to be more to Claire's story than just finding a relationship. There has got to be more to Claire's story than just being a spur to Marten. I kinda agree with chris73. Jeph made a song and dance about including a trans character, and then seemingly got bored with her. Can we at the very least see a bit more of the squabbles with her brother, her passion for her work?

#include <obligatory-I-know-jeph-can-write-about-whatever-he-wants-disclaimer>

* By "you" I just mean whoever is reading this, not necessarily any specific poster above this post.

P.S. We've had multiple moments where Marten has been "spurred" and nothing has ever come of them. I'm flat out ignoring them at this point. They're meaningless.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 11 Jul 2020, 21:52
I agree that Claire hasn't had too much development lately; I was just saying that being a trans character isn't her only role in the comic.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 11 Jul 2020, 22:01
I agree that Claire hasn't had too much development lately; I was just saying that being a trans character isn't her only role in the comic.

And that is a fair point. On the other hand, I also agree that the idea below would merely be a retread of the Faye/Angus story, and I can't think why that would be at all interesting.

Jeph has foreshadowed tension between Claire's ambition and possible need to move for a job and Marten's inertia.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 11 Jul 2020, 22:12
I do respect Jeph's sensitivity about writing Claire but it may have limited what he could do.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 11 Jul 2020, 22:23
I see what you mean. In terms of story based around her gender, there isn't much that can be done without making too big of a deal about it, but Claire can still do anything any other character could. Her fate is no more limited than Marten's or Faye's.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 12 Jul 2020, 03:00
Also, if Claire had remained 'the trans character', then we would rightfully complain about her being one-dimensional.

Only if she had no extra development. We know she has issues going into relationships so that could be explored, we could see Claire grappling with the issue of children (if she wants any that is), we could see how Marten deals with a trans woman after the honeymoon period wears off, hell we could see any number of storylines around this without labelling Claire trans only but instead it seems to be mostly about a theoretical relationship between Faye and Bubbles which could be interesting by why go down that route when you already have an interesting relationship to focus on
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: qiset on 12 Jul 2020, 06:25
Never liked pdf.  Postscript is the way to go.  That way it can be edited and changed provided you can program in postscript. (which I can).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 12 Jul 2020, 09:32
I don’t think it’s a dislike as much as the inherent problem with a happy ending is that it is just that, an ending. Once you arrive, that’s it, story’s done, pack up the sets and go home. Which is obviously a problem in an ongoing serial that needs to continue indefinitely for its creator to remain fed and housed.

Continuing the happy new couple's story tends to be  difficult for many writers.

Especially Hollywood. Just look at how many sequels have some hackneyed reason the happy couple that got together at the end of the previous movie are separated (or what have you) just so they can retread the romantic plot/subplot of the previous movie. Even good, well written shows suffer from this. Miss Martian and Superboy get together during season one of Young Justice. But stuff happens off camera and they're broken up at the start of season 2 (which was very offputting when watching the whole series).

EDIT: fixing way-past-time-for-bed typos
EDIT 2: A counter example (and rare exception) would be Rick and Evelyn O'Connell in The Mummy Returns (2001).
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jul 2020, 10:56
QC often covers characters overcoming damage from the past.

Claire has apparently unhealed injury from her father's infidelity. That would be interesting to explore.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 12 Jul 2020, 11:09
And regardless of either, there will always be those who are duped into going against change that would benefit everybody because incredibly selfish people tell them that whatever it is, "that's socialism" and they've been convinced 'socialism bad' without questioning just who it's "bad" for.

I've been dealing with relatives who wholeheartedly believe the current American healthcare system is socialized medicine despite it being the antithesis of socialized medicine. It's very frustrating.
People like my mother (who I've recently informed of her cancellation) who grew up during the Red Scare of the '50s and are the target audience for FOX News Channel's poisonous lies.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: the silent firefly on 12 Jul 2020, 14:28
most people of that age demographic are the target audience for any media platform's poisonous lies.

btw, what does it exactly mean to say that your mother is cancelled?


Claire has apparently unhealed injury from her father's infidelity. That would be interesting to explore.

that would be interesting and Marten is the perfect character to instigate it. i can imagine him cluelessly sending Claire into fits over what he would call a totally innocuous interaction with another woman. or if Padma came to visit.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 12 Jul 2020, 15:37
Only if she had no extra development. We know she has issues going into relationships so that could be explored, we could see Claire grappling with the issue of children (if she wants any that is), we could see how Marten deals with a trans woman after the honeymoon period wears off, hell we could see any number of storylines around this without labelling Claire trans only but instead it seems to be mostly about a theoretical relationship between Faye and Bubbles which could be interesting by why go down that route when you already have an interesting relationship to focus on


That'll probably happen soon, though. The honeymoon period is wearing off and Claire has graduated and is looking for a job. Given her personality, she'll want to plan out the next 10 years of her life, which will clash mightily with Marten's more... relaxed attitude to the future.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 12 Jul 2020, 16:24
And regardless of either, there will always be those who are duped into going against change that would benefit everybody because incredibly selfish people tell them that whatever it is, "that's socialism" and they've been convinced 'socialism bad' without questioning just who it's "bad" for.

I've been dealing with relatives who wholeheartedly believe the current American healthcare system is socialized medicine despite it being the antithesis of socialized medicine. It's very frustrating.
People like my mother (who I've recently informed of her cancellation) who grew up during the Red Scare of the '50s and are the target audience for FOX News Channel's poisonous lies.
Unfortunately it's not just them.
My younger brother (early 30s) is amonsted them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 12 Jul 2020, 18:01
Never liked pdf.  Postscript is the way to go.  That way it can be edited and changed provided you can program in postscript. (which I can).

PDF is essentially postscript with extra bits.

You may not know this, but there is such a thing as a PDF file that you can edit with a text editor.

Here is an example I happened to have sitting on my computer. Copy the code below, paste it into a file using a text editor or whatever, give it a .pdf extension, and open it with your favourite PDF reader.

If you know postscript, then this should look very familiar.

Code: [Select]
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>>
stream
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x='adobe:ns:meta/' x:xmptk='Insert XMP tool name here.'>
  <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf='http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#'>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:pdf="http://ns.adobe.com/pdf/1.3/">
      <pdf:Producer>Datalogics - example producer program name here</pdf:Producer>
      <pdf:Copyright>Copyright 2017 PDF Association</pdf:Copyright>
      <pdf:Keywords>PDF 2.0 sample example</pdf:Keywords>
    </rdf:Description>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
      <xap:CreateDate>2017-05-24T10:30:11Z</xap:CreateDate>
      <xap:MetadataDate>2017-07-11T07:55:11Z</xap:MetadataDate>
      <xap:ModifyDate>2017-07-11T07:55:11Z</xap:ModifyDate>
      <xap:CreatorTool>Datalogics - example creator tool name here</xap:CreatorTool>
    </rdf:Description>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
      <dc:format>application/pdf</dc:format>
      <dc:title>
        <rdf:Alt>
          <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">A simple PDF 2.0 example file</rdf:li>
        </rdf:Alt>
      </dc:title>
      <dc:creator>
        <rdf:Seq>
          <rdf:li>Datalogics Incorporated</rdf:li>
        </rdf:Seq>
      </dc:creator>
      <dc:description>
        <rdf:Alt>
          <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Demonstration of a simple PDF 2.0 file.</rdf:li>
        </rdf:Alt>
      </dc:description>
      <dc:rights>
        <rdf:Alt>
          <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Copyright 2017 PDF Association. Licensed to the public under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International license.</rdf:li>
        </rdf:Alt>
      </dc:rights>
    </rdf:Description>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:xapRights="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/rights/">
      <xapRights:Marked>True</xapRights:Marked>
    </rdf:Description>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:cc="http://creativecommons.org/ns#">
      <cc:license rdf:resource="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/sa/4.0/" />
    </rdf:Description>
    <rdf:Description rdf:about="" xmlns:xapMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/">
      <xapMM:DocumentID>uuid:3eef2166-8332-abb4-3d31-77334578873f</xapMM:DocumentID>
      <xapMM:InstanceID>uuid:991bcce7-ee70-11a3-91aa-77bbe2181fd8</xapMM:InstanceID>
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% Draw a rectangle with a 1-unit red border, filled with light blue.
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%%EOF

Here's another thing for you to try. Take some PDF you have sitting around (one that's not edit protected). Visit this site:

https://www.pdfyeah.com/decompress-pdf/

Submit the PDF and download a version you can edit with your favourite text editor.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gamesman001 on 12 Jul 2020, 21:02
I'm new here but thought this might be worth considering. May has an occasional weird sex partner Sven who has lots of money but is oblivious to other peoples problems. If he knew about May's issues he would probably go all in on a top of the line body with full options sex-wise. Unfortunately May would refuse because she doesn't want charity BUT if she was convinced he did it to use her as a sex toy she'd be into it. And if she thought she was paying it off by having sex she'd want to quit her job move in with him and wear him out everyday trying to pay it off as fast as she could but would probably settle for keeping her job and doing him on the regular. If I'm out of line sorry but this is how I read both characters.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 12 Jul 2020, 21:56
Never liked pdf.  Postscript is the way to go.  That way it can be edited and changed provided you can program in postscript. (which I can).
But in many contexts the need is for a document that you can verify hasn't been edited or changed. Contracts, for example.

And yes, digital signatures can be applied to any document type. Until there's an easy to use common infrastruture to handle that for the average non-technical user, it's not a real solution.

Mind you, the common thinking (as indeed your post would also imply) seems to be "it can't be edited because it's a PDF", which is incorrect. It's just that most people don't want to spend the money for Adobe's PDF editing software and the free alternatives aren't very good (and aren't well known). So in practice PDF means "probably hasn't been edited, unless someone was willing to make an actual effort", which is often good enough.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jul 2020, 22:12
Welcome, new person!

Not out of line in my view. It's not shipping since they have an established sexual relationship. It's plausibly in character for them.

I do wonder what the QC world laws on sex work are and whether May's parole officer would interfere.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 12 Jul 2020, 23:25
(IICIH here. Fixed quote tags.)
Welcome, new person!

Not out of line in my view. It's not shipping since they have an established sexual relationship. It's plausibly in character for them.

I do wonder what the QC world laws on sex work are and whether May's parole officer would interfere.
Well, if we're talking about sex work in the QC verse, look at Marten's mom.  A career as a fetish model and a dominatrice.  Apparently no blowback on raising Marten, so I might guess it's largely legalized.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 13 Jul 2020, 11:08
She did get a visit from Child Services after Marten brought her bondage equipment to Show & Tell.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 13 Jul 2020, 14:07
That may yet happen. Jeph has foreshadowed tension between Claire's ambition and possible need to move for a job and Marten's inertia.

Which again has nothing to do with Claire being trans and would be reminiscent of Faye and her actor ex

It's almost as if the author doesn't want to talk about Claire at all except in the most superficial of ways, so why bother even having her in the strip

The fact that you are saying this is the exact reason why he should continue writing them this way.

You're grabbing the story by its collar and shaking it demanding that Claire being trans is important somehow but its mundanity is exactly why it is important. You are othering her, and by othering her, you other transpeople in reality. I mean, how could it be POSSIBLE that everything would just be fine?

When we first started bandying around on this forum that their relationship might be a bit drama-free and tranquil, it was cited as the only example anybody here could think of in fiction where a trans character's gender status didn't become 1. a focal point of the entire story and/or 2. a problem for somebody at least whether the character themselves or others.

This one example where Marten genuinely accepts her and loves her regardless and it doesn't matter? Just let people have that. Once. I for one am fucking delighted to see it.

Just like as a pansexual I'm delighted to see bi characters in this comic who have traits that extend beyond 'slut.'
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 13 Jul 2020, 15:20
Quote from: Hannah Gadsby
One of our spokespeople approached me straight after one of my shows to give me a bit of feedback, and that’s my favorite time for feedback. Straight after a show? Yes, please! That is when my skin is at its thickest. The feedback? Apparently, she said, “I was very disappointed in your show this year, Hannah. I just don’t think there was enough lesbian content.”

I’d been on stage the whole time.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Gamesman001 on 14 Jul 2020, 08:27
I'm not sure it would be qualified as sex work. How many human women/men receive expensive gifts from their sex partners. The jails would fill up even faster. My point was that's what May would WANT it to be because she's kind of weird and it also allows her to accept it as a sex-gift not charity. She has trouble accepting help of any kind but if she thought it was about a pervert getting off she'd be into it both emotionally and physically. She was into it even without actual sex parts. And I'm sure they can supply connections so she could feel actual orgasms. She could tell all her AI buddies if it is worth the trouble. Bound to be some issued with upkeep and cleaning. There could be weeks of story related stuff just from her perspective.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Mad Cat on 14 Jul 2020, 09:08
My prediction, robot voice boxes use ordinary speakers mechanicly coupled to their windpipe to do the sound production and lion's share of the sound formation. Her substandard body used one with a paper sound cone to save 5¢ per unit and between that and her "overenthusiastic use of speech", she's blown her sound cone. Faye and Bubs can replace it with a polymer cone one cheap and easy, but it'll take a few days to get the specialized size/mounting hardware for installing it. In the meantime, they install a Bluetooth module and May has to carry around a portable, battery-powered BT speaker to be able to talk.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 14 Jul 2020, 10:47
More than likely they could scavenge one from an OopsyDaisy at the SallyAnn shop for a few bucks.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 29 Jul 2020, 17:46
Back when I was in grad school, I was given a large collection of... less than legally-obtained... physics textbooks in DjVu format. It was a useful format, but even back then it was hard to find good software for that format.
I seem to remember that DjVu was supported, on Linux at least, 10-ish years ago, but don't quote me on that.

EDIT: Tova, the definition of .pdf is Postscript with whatever bullshit Adobe decides to add? Has that changed?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 29 Jul 2020, 18:10
Yes, Adobe isn't in control of the standard anymore. PDF 2.0 was developed by an ISO working group and they have removed parts of the standard that depended on Adobe technology, so it is possible to implement a reader or a writer without reference to Adobe software.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 30 Jul 2020, 06:44
Back when I was in grad school, I was given a large collection of... less than legally-obtained... physics textbooks in DjVu format. It was a useful format, but even back then it was hard to find good software for that format.
I seem to remember that DjVu was supported, on Linux at least, 10-ish years ago, but don't quote me on that.

EDIT: Tova, the definition of .pdf is Postscript with whatever bullshit Adobe decides to add? Has that changed?
I’m an experimental physicist, not a theoretical physicist. I run Windows.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 30 Jul 2020, 08:10
My condolences.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 30 Jul 2020, 11:03
if i was still on speaking terms with my ex, an astrophysicist, i would ask her what she uses, for comparison.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 30 Jul 2020, 11:10
Most of the astrophysicists I've met (and seen the computers of) used Macs, and the rest used Linux.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: zmeiat_joro on 30 Jul 2020, 14:09
I remember finding it funny that the "portable document format" was anything but portable.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 30 Jul 2020, 14:38
Don't quote me on this, but I think (read: guess) the reason the word 'portable' is in the name is that fonts, images and other assets are packaged up in the same file as the postscript referencing them, as opposed to standalone postscript which references them externally.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Thrudd on 31 Jul 2020, 14:49
My observation is that the latest iteration and how most people use the format is to maintain the documents formatting between systems so that it will always look the same no matter the system it is displayed on.  Now compression / file size depends on how efficient the algorithms are on stripping out unnecessary support data like unused characters in True Type font files and reduce the resolution of images.

It was a notorious issue with early text documents where spacing and font sets would vary from system to system and it only got worse when M$ got involved where one version release would radically change the layout of a document produced on a different version release.  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: notStanley on 31 Jul 2020, 15:39
While maintaining format when that embeds some of the contents meaning, I get annoyed at documents that are just paragraphs of plain text, yet the author is so enamored of their precious babies that they locked out re-flow, forcing me to scroll across as well as down to read the dang thing!  Survivable when at my desk and can just make that window bigger, but a WTF moment on portable devices with small screens.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: cybersmurf on 03 Aug 2020, 06:05
IIRC PDF supports font embedding as a whole, and for the characters only. PDF, as a technically read only format, with being able to use basically anything but not having to turn it into a picture is a good idea. Problem: although now an ISO standard, it was developed as a proprietary thing. While that can be good in the way of being able to move on faster with decisions on how to do so, it was developed as a part of a software suite, with making money as a priority, not usability.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Aug 2020, 16:04
I would counter that making money and usability are not necessarily in conflict. The two aims simply need to be aligned. I would daresay that with PDFs, they are. It is probably PDF's only feature that matters.

Usability can be just as much of a problem with free software (free as in whichever you like) as it is with proprietary software. As I mentioned elsewhere, open software generally is at its best when developers eat their own dog food (e.g. git, linux). That's a more powerful metric than whether making money was a priority.

Here's a detail. Making money is still a priority. The people who comprise the ISO working group generally come from industry - companies whose goal is to make a profit.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Aug 2020, 16:46
Having used Linux for over a decade, and using plenty of *nix software on macs ever since OS X ever came out, I can tell you that, for anything creative, nearly everything is severely lacking either in terms of usability or utility.  GIMP, for example, lives up to its name quite well, and until I got photoshop running, I was having to do all my image editing in Krita, which is painting software, but *still* miles above anything else on the platform.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Aug 2020, 16:55
I'm not overly familiar with GIMP, so I can't comment specifically. But to be fair, I would point out that Photoshop (the program on which it is obviously based) also has a steep learning curve. Is GIMP in fact significantly less usable than Photoshop?
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 03 Aug 2020, 18:03
There are things that are unnecessarily hard in GIMP, but over the years I have found ways to do just about everything I need to do in it. I’m not doing professional-quality graphics so I can’t really justify the price of Photoshop, while GIMP’s price is pretty hard to beat.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Aug 2020, 18:38
I hate the interface, which is a pretty common complaint, but the real killer things for me are lack of support for high bit-depth and adjustment layers, which make it useless for me for photo editing.  I do much prefer Krita for my OSS image stuff, even though it's designed for digital painting, since it's intuitive, quite powerful (especially with a wacom tablet), and can handle high bit-depth.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Aug 2020, 20:06
Interesting. Surprising.

According to my google research, high bit depth was added in 2.9 and an adjustment layers feature is coming.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Aug 2020, 20:10
Aah.  I haven't used it in ages, especially since the barrier to entry for Photoshop is so much lower than it used to be.  It's a lot easier to pay $10 a month and having everything constantly upgraded than pay $720 upfront.  Adobe sucks for other reasons, but I really can't go back. 
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Aug 2020, 20:52
There is hate for Adobe out there, but generally it's because people hate something about their subscription model, so I'm unaware of the other reasons people hate them.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Aug 2020, 22:25
Buggy software, mostly.  But when there's really no viable alternative, I still use it.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Kein Kunstler on 03 Aug 2020, 23:04
when developers eat their own dog food ... that's a more powerful metric than whether making money was a priority.
I prefer understanding before acting; therefor, \TeX.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 03 Aug 2020, 23:13
LaTeX is a wonderful thing, but it's important to find the right editor.  I tend to use Kile on Linux, and TeXmaker on Mac.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Tova on 03 Aug 2020, 23:19
TeX is an extraordinary achievement by an extraordinary computer scientist.
Title: Re: WCDT strips 4301-4305 (6th July to 10 July 2020)
Post by: Kein Kunstler on 03 Aug 2020, 23:38
TeX is an extraordinary achievement by an extraordinary computer scientist.
\TeX resulted from lucid pragmatism.