THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: Gyrre on 23 Aug 2020, 08:06

Title: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 23 Aug 2020, 08:06
Yes, I'm a horrible bastard. :laugh: 

Anyways, here's hoping Clinton can figure some things out
Sorry about any (however unlikely) potential spoilers, Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: tbodt on 23 Aug 2020, 13:36
Can we add a poll option for "next week is just comics about May"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 23 Aug 2020, 14:57
I voted "Sven is not a mooch" for the first time ever.

How that poses a complication for Clinton and Elliot is left as an exercise for the reader.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 23 Aug 2020, 15:05
Can we add a poll option for "next week is just comics about May"

Yeah I think this one is happening
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Beast_Reborn on 23 Aug 2020, 15:11
I think we're about to have two weeks of comics about May's new chassis, then two weeks of wacky Union Robotics customers, then two weeks of Elliot visiting the hot springs with his dad. (His dad is really boring.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 23 Aug 2020, 15:33
Like Tova, I voted for 'Sven is not a mooch'.

After Elliot visits the hot springs, he finds love... And a rival!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 23 Aug 2020, 15:55
I don't understand. We're 4335 comics in and Elliot has yet to pull a single sword out of his ass.

Then again, we don't know the origins of the CoD broadsword, do we?   :-\
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 23 Aug 2020, 15:59
Or the Malaysian Battle Spatula.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 23 Aug 2020, 16:20
Or the Malaysian Battle Spatula.

No, the MBS came from his nose. Additionally, he can produce rabid raccoons from his ears, and he occasionally secretes metal rulers from his pores.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 23 Aug 2020, 16:54
Yikes!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: N.N. Marf on 23 Aug 2020, 17:32
Of course if he has an earworm, the raccoons manifest a sublime hope. We all remember those 50 pages where he visited Dr. Ellicot's space station for special training after his raccoons emerged as skunks shaped like Renee's face.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 23 Aug 2020, 17:48
Comic is up!

I don't think I've ever seen May quite so starry-eyed. Please keep any and all pole-arms away from her though, she'd be LETHAL.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mr Intrepid on 23 Aug 2020, 18:00
I don't understand. We're 4335 comics in and Elliot has yet to pull a single sword out of his ass.

Then again, we don't know the origins of the CoD broadsword, do we?   :-\
My guess is that the sword dates from Dora's  days with the coven.(?) And the Malaysian battle spatula may have been Faye's creation.
Title: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 23 Aug 2020, 18:23
I am totally fine with this chassis option.

As for the polearm, there are workarounds. Something from Epic Armoury (https://www.epicarmoury.com/weaponry/staffs--spears/ox-tongue-partisan-190-cm/c-282/p-24918/) might be legal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 23 Aug 2020, 18:45
I wouldn't trust May with a Nerf gun ;)

Dora might've gotten the sword from her coffee roasting coven (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3349)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 23 Aug 2020, 18:58
May daydreaming is so cute. :D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 23 Aug 2020, 19:13
Marigold, think this through. It may look adorable and easy to care for now, but you're not going to think that little pike is so cute when it grows up to be a twenty-foot steel-capped battering ram.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mordhaus on 23 Aug 2020, 20:43
The answer is YES, if you move to Texas.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 23 Aug 2020, 22:59
I'm sensing a Bembo / May crossover here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 23 Aug 2020, 23:15
Panel 3 is one of the best character portraits that Jeph has ever done!

Okay, on the record here: I will be very disappointed if May's eventual new body doesn't look something like that. However, the point is that we've now settled something, haven't we? Who is the 'inner May'? If she could look like anyone, she'd look something like that!

Also, I'm wondering if, in the event she has a better put-together body, she'd be a martial artist? Remember her kata with Dale's tanto? I'm wondering if she might find herself at the same sword-fighting school as Sam!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: brasca on 23 Aug 2020, 23:16
It seems like May has given up on a flight capable chassis.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 24 Aug 2020, 01:13
as long as it's a fight capable one.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 24 Aug 2020, 05:14
I voted "Sven is not a mooch" for the first time ever.

How that poses a complication for Clinton and Elliot is left as an exercise for the reader.

It was either that, 'spathe ham' or some variation on 'purple monkey dishwasher'.

EDIT: Avoiding double posting.

Can we add a poll option for "next week is just comics about May"
That was always a possibility, but this poll was meant specifically in regards to events in Clinton and Elliot's lives as opposed to cast focus. Had I known today's comic was shifting back to May (I didn't I swear), it wouldn't have been the first option.

EDIT2: I think I've mentioned this before, but I'm tired and I've always wanted a glaive (but can't stand TX heat). Texas has an open-carry law for bladed weapons now. Though, I'm betting the same restrictions that apply to guns and knives for felons/ex-cons still hold. I haven't really looked into it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 24 Aug 2020, 07:00
May daydreaming is so cute. :D

Someone will have a new gravatar in 3... 2... 1...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tyr on 24 Aug 2020, 07:37
Really off-the-wall idea: Some Pooh-Bah is gonna catch wind of May's case, and start offering early parole for AI convicts with the proviso that they spend the parole embodied in a shitty chassis, citing May as an example of shitty chassis reducing recidivism.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tormuse on 24 Aug 2020, 08:09
No jet fighter?

(Also, shouldn't the thread title say 24th to 28th?)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 24 Aug 2020, 08:25
It seems like May has given up on a flight capable chassis.

She did say that she'd settle for a "bomb rack" if she couldn't have a bomb-rack.
Title: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 24 Aug 2020, 12:51
No jet fighter?

(Also, shouldn't the thread title say 24th to 28th?)
Since getting out of robot jail, May has become very attached to some of her friends (though she would deny that, even to herself.) Being an aircraft would make it harder to see them.

Also, it’s not clear how attached she’s become to her not-quite-relationship with Sven, but he probably wouldn’t want to continue it with her if she wasn’t in a humanoid body. I doubt that Sven has an aircraft fetish.

(There is probably a word for someone who has a sexual fetish for aircraft but I refuse to look it up.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Theta9 on 24 Aug 2020, 14:07
I don't understand. We're 4335 comics in and Elliot has yet to pull a single sword out of his ass.

Then again, we don't know the origins of the CoD broadsword, do we?   :-\
My guess is that the sword dates from Dora's  days with the coven.(?) And the Malaysian battle spatula may have been Faye's creation.
Faye helped Samantha craft The Mighty War Ladle.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 24 Aug 2020, 14:14
I also highly doubt that the fundraiser earned enough money for May to be a fighter yet - they probably set the goal for her to afford a decent, mid-range chassis
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: AfternoonGlory on 24 Aug 2020, 15:18
Same, May, Same.

(Of course the comic changes POV when I'm so invested, I should be used to this by now.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 24 Aug 2020, 18:35
New comic!

Hey, we're back to Elliot! Didn't see that one coming. At least he's listening to Renee and Roko. Maybe he can give Roko some advice on self-acceptance.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Wombat on 24 Aug 2020, 18:38
Oh, Roko. Maybe say the second sentence in your head.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 24 Aug 2020, 19:27
I'm sensing a Bembo / May crossover here.
Membo week! I'm all for it.

Oh, Roko. Maybe say the second sentence in your head.
But the advice podcast told her that if she said it out loud, she'd feel less guilty about it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 24 Aug 2020, 19:31
I'm beginning to think that it's impossible to say anything considered embarrassing by society out loud without feeling some degree of shame, no matter how many advice podcasts you listen to and how confident you ask.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: DSL on 24 Aug 2020, 19:44
I was  beginning to think most people were incapable of feeling shame. Interesting how that somehow, paradoxically, goes hand-in-tentacle with shame culture.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 24 Aug 2020, 19:49
Poor Roko.  :-o :laugh:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 24 Aug 2020, 20:08
I'm still proud of her.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 24 Aug 2020, 20:31
"Biggest loaf" would be limited only by the size of the Secret Bakery's oven. "Crustiest bread" -- doesn't seem to be a goal of any particular bread type. Though there are techniques for making bread crustier.

( i think bread made while intensely horny is what she really wants )
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: N.N. Marf on 24 Aug 2020, 21:04
I'm beginning to think that it's impossible to say anything considered embarrassing by society out loud without feeling some degree of shame, no matter how many advice podcasts you listen to and how confident you ask.
I do that all the time without experiencing shame. The most that happens is sometimes someone looks at me funny, or pauses whatever he's doing, which takes me aback each time, because there was nothing wrong with what I did. Although, pretending confidence doesn't help me feel not embarrassed. The only way I've found against that is to go through it, getting to the source of the issue---why I feel embarrassed---and work through it logically why it's not (unless it is) something to be embarrassed about. (Not sure if that works when the cause is neurological, or a chemical imbalance, though.)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Carl-E on 24 Aug 2020, 21:14
My first concern was about crumbs in bed. 




Or on the couch. 






Or in the tub...  ...   or...


Never mind. 



Is it hot in here?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 24 Aug 2020, 21:52
I find I don't really want to visualize Rocko's bread fetish too literally. I want to imagine it's just a smell thing (like Bubbles and her tea) and that nothing physical happens.

Why that's far more disturbing than May, Sven, and her hip joint I can't say.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 24 Aug 2020, 23:16
Well, I'm glad that my sense of narrative progression hasn't totally abandoned me. As I suspected, Roko is the spoiler turning up just as Elliot is moping over what he thinks is his proposal to Clinton crashing and burning. Where this will go I don't know but I strongly suspect that it will be all about Renee encouraging Elliot and Roko to deal with all the crazy in their own heads without letting it bog down their lives.

Y'know, I think that podcast is an IRL thing? It may haver even inspired Jeph to write this arc!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 25 Aug 2020, 01:06
How many comics have we had now of someone telling Elliot this?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 25 Aug 2020, 01:26
How many comics have we had now of someone telling Elliot this?

Apart from this one, I can only think of three: Marten and Steve (unknowingly) talking about his crush on Padma, Renee at least once before and I think Clinton too (for maximum irony).

The point? Elliot needs to be told this a lot and will continue to do so because, like a lot of people, this is a huge insecurity for him and it isn't something one can simply and easily overcome.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 25 Aug 2020, 03:50
Sure. That's not completely unreasonable, it just doesn't make for riveting reading having a new comic for every time he's told.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 25 Aug 2020, 06:16

Y'know, I think that podcast is an IRL thing? It may haver even inspired Jeph to write this arc!
I’m pretty sure it’s a reference to: https://www.savagelovecast.com/ (NSFW obviously)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Cornelius on 25 Aug 2020, 06:53
I find I don't really want to visualize Rocko's bread fetish too literally. I want to imagine it's just a smell thing (like Bubbles and her tea) and that nothing physical happens.

Why that's far more disturbing than May, Sven, and her hip joint I can't say.

Since she asks for the crustiest, I imagine it must be an auditive thing as well. The crackling of a hot crusty bread as it cools down... and then the sound and tactile feel of breaking brad like that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 25 Aug 2020, 07:18
Since she asks for the crustiest, I imagine it must be an auditive thing as well.

When she said “crustiest” I thought crusty bread is really... hard.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: brasca on 25 Aug 2020, 08:04
It's difficult to confess something like that, but ultimately it feels so much better like when Gene comes clean

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 25 Aug 2020, 11:34
I've seen Christopher Meloni in Oz and Happy, so I know he's not always detective Stabler, but I still feel like I just watched detective Stabler hump a fridge.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Beast_Reborn on 25 Aug 2020, 13:47
What's the deal with Renee volunteering information about Elliot's love life to the first person who walks in? Yes, Roko and Elliot are friends and Elliot already knows about her bread fetish, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to confide in her, but he should get to decide to do so. This comic looks like it's from a social world where no one has any boundaries whatsoever.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 25 Aug 2020, 14:47
What's the deal with Renee volunteering information about Elliot's love life to the first person who walks in? Yes, Roko and Elliot are friends and Elliot already knows about her bread fetish, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to confide in her, but he should get to decide to do so. This comic looks like it's from a social world where no one has any boundaries whatsoever.

I think it's mostly just Renee, actually. She's done it a few times now (too lazy to find an example, but I remember something about Elliot wanting to pet Brun's head and Renee blurting that out), but what her motivation could possibly be, I have no idea.

I do agree that it's up to Elliot, but Renee seems much more concerned this time then on previous occasions. It feels less like a "ha ha, I just gave away your personal information" and more like "you're not in a great place and I want to help."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Kairi on 25 Aug 2020, 16:16
On the topic of Renee volunteering this info to Roko, she didn't use names (or specific pronouns!), but Roko also kind of works there. I'm assuming she's had more than just the one apprentice session that we've seen? Not sure, but Roko and Renee and Elliot have probably had some off screen interactions, so this doesn't seem that weird to me. Coworker chat, ish.

But yeah Renee is being Renee and blurting things out. On brand. She seems to be exercising more restraint as the story progresses though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 25 Aug 2020, 16:58
That is a good point, Roko is more than just a 'passing acquaintance'. Combine that with Renee's lack of brain-mouth filter, and this is what you get.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 25 Aug 2020, 17:50
New comic.

Oh Renee. No! That comment took my mind in a really uncomfortable direction.

It should be fun to see which chassis May ends up picking. I hope she isn't too picky and decides that none of the chassis available are really 'her'. Then again, she is a pragmatist and any body is better than the one she currently has.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 25 Aug 2020, 19:21
"Does it have a WARRANTY?!"

"Uhm, yes?"

"SOLD!"

"May, that's too quick...."
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tyr on 25 Aug 2020, 20:38
I more expect May to jump for the lifetime warranty.
"IT WOULD HAVE FUCKIN' HELPED WITH THIS ONE!"
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 25 Aug 2020, 20:52
What's the deal with Renee volunteering information about Elliot's love life to the first person who walks in? Yes, Roko and Elliot are friends and Elliot already knows about her bread fetish, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to confide in her, but he should get to decide to do so. This comic looks like it's from a social world where no one has any boundaries whatsoever.

That's been a theme of the strip for a very long time.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: ihaveavoice on 25 Aug 2020, 23:12
What's the deal with Renee volunteering information about Elliot's love life to the first person who walks in? Yes, Roko and Elliot are friends and Elliot already knows about her bread fetish, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to confide in her, but he should get to decide to do so. This comic looks like it's from a social world where no one has any boundaries whatsoever.

That's been a theme of the strip for a very long time.

Hanners quietly nods from the couch in Marten and Faye's apartment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 25 Aug 2020, 23:16
There's a sweet aspect to today's strip. It's really the first time that it's implied that Renee's been faking it with her outgoing and blunt manner and that maybe she doesn't really feel that sure about whether she's getting this right herself. This doesn't help Roko who, I think, is more or less finding her way in the dark about her personal kink.

So! Today (in universe - probably the next two to three weeks IRL) is going to be the big day for May! I wonder what she'll end up with in the end?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 26 Aug 2020, 11:41
I'm glad she realized she made the mistake (progress). Sadly, she didn't realize it sooner.

I haven't quite made this particular sort of mistake before, but I can relate to saying something and immediately realising I shouldn't have after the fact.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: notStanley on 26 Aug 2020, 19:26
Oh, Roko.  After all that social stress, admitting what the bread is for, then going to just leave it at home to cool down while you go back out visiting folk?  Surely you could spend 10 minutes while it fresh?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 26 Aug 2020, 22:05
Oh, Roko.  After all that social stress, admitting what the bread is for, then going to just leave it at home to cool down while you go back out visiting folk?  Surely you could spend 10 minutes while it fresh?

I didn't think of this. That's actually a real shame - she had many victories today even with the embarrassment and deserves to celebrate while her reward is at its peak.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 26 Aug 2020, 17:56
Comic is up.

Surprise May, you are the stripper! Strip out of that body and into a new one.


With "I'm too sexy for my chassis" by Right Bleeped Fred playing in the background.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 26 Aug 2020, 18:12
As May leaves the apartment building, she finally allows herself to hope that this may really happen.

Promptly, the chassis store burns down, the fundraising account is locked by a ransomware attack, and May is obliterated by a meteor. Roko is able to recover the substrate, but fumbles it into the river as they cross the bridge, where it is eaten by a mutant perch.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mordhaus on 26 Aug 2020, 18:37
Everything is better with strippers.

As long as they are doing it of their own free will as a capitalist pursuit. Could we make it so that instead of a capitalist pursuit, it becomes a socialist one? But wait, doesn't that make me terrible for objectifying their bodies for my own sick pleasure? Is stripping an art form or merely sexual exploitation? What if they are unionized strippers? That way they could avoid house fees by threatening to strike.

Are Strip clubs patriarchal organisations? What if the customers had to get naked also? Is it sex work? If so, is it anti-feminist (what if the strippers are male)?

 8-)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Beast_Reborn on 26 Aug 2020, 18:54
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 26 Aug 2020, 19:14
The end text - epitaph? - is "reminder that May is awful."

This doesn't seem so awful on a May scale to me. It's also something that Pintsize would say and take no flak. Primarily, I think, because of May's attitude while delivering the line, which is profoundly ungrateful for the effort that people are making to help her. Whereas if Pintsize said it, it'd be playful, not serious, and just his tendency to sexualize everything.

Even so, if I were to research a list of decidedly unpleasant things May has said, this wouldn't even be on my radar.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 26 Aug 2020, 19:21
Ah, May. I too would want strippers.

:D
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Onionvolcano on 26 Aug 2020, 19:55
Marigold approves of May's friends.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: sitnspin on 26 Aug 2020, 20:37
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.
All labour is exploitative under capitalism. Sex work is not unique in this regard.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 26 Aug 2020, 21:21
That doesn't mean that all labour is equally exploitative.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Sorflakne on 26 Aug 2020, 21:48
May is far from awful. And yes, the lack of strippers is noticeable.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 26 Aug 2020, 23:14
So, I'm thinking that Jeph has decided to go full-out with the 'beware the quiet ones' trope with Beepatrice?

Meanwhile, I suspect that Roko has decided that at least half the problems in her life are due to other people.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: brasca on 27 Aug 2020, 00:20
The end text - epitaph? - is "reminder that May is awful."

This doesn't seem so awful on a May scale to me. It's also something that Pintsize would say and take no flak. Primarily, I think, because of May's attitude while delivering the line, which is profoundly ungrateful for the effort that people are making to help her. Whereas if Pintsize said it, it'd be playful, not serious, and just his tendency to sexualize everything.

Even so, if I were to research a list of decidedly unpleasant things May has said, this wouldn't even be on my radar.

A lot has been said about May not deserving to be stuck in a substandard chassis after paying her debt to society, but I still find it hard to believe enough people contributed to this fundraiser if they actually met her.  Maybe Roko wrote a really heart wrenching story.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 27 Aug 2020, 01:03
A lot has been said about May not deserving to be stuck in a substandard chassis after paying her debt to society, but I still find it hard to believe enough people contributed to this fundraiser if they actually met her.  Maybe Roko wrote a really heart wrenching story.

My theory is that most QC characters are big softies.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 27 Aug 2020, 01:19
A lot has been said about May not deserving to be stuck in a substandard chassis after paying her debt to society, but I still find it hard to believe enough people contributed to this fundraiser if they actually met her.  Maybe Roko wrote a really heart wrenching story.

I think that there was a lot of second-hand giving. Dora and Hannelore had an advert for the Gofundme page in CoD, Tai in the library, Faye and Bubbles at UR and Elliot at the bakery (at Roko's request). So, this wasn't just from May's friends and acquaintances but from strangers who felt that the cause was good. (Or because Hannelore and Faye are scary when they talk about social obligations.)

That probably really got May in the coolant pump because the idea that total stragers would want to help her because they thought it was the right thing to do was as different from her cynical view of people as it was possible to get.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 27 Aug 2020, 01:41
Ah, May. I too would want strippers.

:D
We never did hear definitively what the excess funds were going to be used for.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 04:10
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.


The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. This statement includes 11 family funerals including those of four grandparents.

I'd wager the 'I'm doing this so I don't starve' combined with the creepy leering old dudes and the broke-ass losers "tryin' ta get with" the strippers are the reason for that deressing atmosphere.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: traroth on 27 Aug 2020, 05:09
What's really sad in today's comic is to which extent it is hard for May to believe something good is coming her way. She is just waiting for the whole thing to fail, as it probably happened to her several (many?) times before...
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 27 Aug 2020, 07:00
That doesn't mean that all labour is equally exploitative.

Nor does it mean that stripping or sex work are inherently more exploitative.

I know a lot of people who have worked physically manual jobs for years and are left with injuries because of it - my partner, for example, is a theatre tech and has had multiple concussions, has a permanent foot injury, etc. etc.

British law also allows you to volunteer to sacrifice certain employment rights - which she does, because theatre work sometimes consists of 18 hour shifts, or a late start leading into an early finish, etc. etc. and there are many theatre productions that simply would not happen without those rights being sacrificed.

People like this are rarely considered to have been exploited, and yet sex workers are.

For the record, my point here is not to state that sex workers are not exploited; simply that capitalism is inherently exploitative, and that it is illegality which provides the majority of the unique risks in sex work. Physical damage, assault, harassment, psychological damage, plenty of other jobs have all of that as a risk.

Many people do not object to the risks of sex work, they object to the 'sex' of sex work. A perfectly pleasant transaction between a sex worker and their client - high level customer service, a polite customer, needs requested clearly and met, an agreed price set - is inherently 'damaging' as far as some people are concerned.

That said, I am sensing I need to snip a whole bunch of this thread and start a new one about sex work specifically or add it onto another thread?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: snubnose on 27 Aug 2020, 07:06
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, [...]
Why, the only ethics of capitalism is that greed is good. If you're not greedy, you cannot gain the special status of being capitalist, and without greed, you cannot improve or even just keep the status of capitalist. There is no other actual ethical imperative in this system.

For example just check out what capitalism did to christmas. Many people hate christmas because its so materialistic nowadays.


The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to.  [...]
Why, thats exactly what I would expect ... and thankfully nobody has ever tried to drag me to such a place.

To be honest, I'm not even sure my country (Germany) has such places.


British law also allows you to volunteer to sacrifice certain employment rights [...]
You cannot "sacrifice rights".

Or do you know a way to "sacrifice" a human right ?

And thanks to a certain Mrs Tatcher, british law isnt exactly exemplary in regards to worker rights.


Many people do not object to the risks of sex work, they object to the 'sex' of sex work. A perfectly pleasant transaction [...]
And I'm sure some slave owners have been super nice to their slaves, too. That changes nothing.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 27 Aug 2020, 07:36
That doesn't mean that all labour is equally exploitative.

Nor does it mean that stripping or sex work are inherently more exploitative.
...
... it is illegality which provides the majority of the unique risks in sex work.

I mean... I'm sure you're right.

Does that mean those risks don't count or something?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: N.N. Marf on 27 Aug 2020, 09:11
I like the first frame, seeing a character from the back is quite nice but rare. I think often the person drawing is not used to drawing the back side of characters that it comes out weird, but here, despite the rarity of the angle, it came out quite well.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 27 Aug 2020, 10:21
Wait!  Beeps! thinks it would be better with strippers.  Beeps?!?
I always suspected she was a horny little weirdo underneath the goody-two-shoes act.  [4034]
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 27 Aug 2020, 22:55
That doesn't mean that all labour is equally exploitative.

Nor does it mean that stripping or sex work are inherently more exploitative.
...
... it is illegality which provides the majority of the unique risks in sex work.

I mean... I'm sure you're right.

Does that mean those risks don't count or something?

(https://images.app.goo.gl/nkWrRtX1cbGeYEFf8)

Not really sure what point I was particularly trying to make. I meant to circle back in my post and write in something about how only that one particular line was even meant to be in response to you specifically and the rest was just general musings on the topic.

Why, thats exactly what I would expect ... and thankfully nobody has ever tried to drag me to such a place.

To be honest, I'm not even sure my country (Germany) has such places.

This struck me as quite an odd suggestion to make, so I looked it up, and evidently there's fewer than might be expected due to the legality of brothels, but there are still plenty (https://stripclubguide.com/location/germany/).

Quote
You cannot "sacrifice rights".

Or do you know a way to "sacrifice" a human right?

This reads as a bit combative to me, but I seem to have upset you somehow?

I gave a reasonably specific example in my previous post, but here is a link  (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/basic-rights-and-contracts/check-how-many-hours-youre-working/) to the Citizens' Advice Bureau, which references the British requirement for a maximum 48-hour working week. An employer can't make you work more than 48 hours. However, you can sign an agreement to work more than 48 hours if you like. Perhaps the language I was using was inelegant, and what is happening here is a quibble over semantics, and to you this doesn't qualify as 'sacrificing a right' (as you can renege on the agreement at any time) but to me, if you have the right to refuse to work more than 48 hours, and you choose to work more than 48 hours, you're giving up one of your employment rights voluntarily. People can sign up to be exploited.

Quote
And thanks to a certain Mrs Tatcher, british law isnt exactly exemplary in regards to worker rights.

Okay? I didn't say it was. In my fact my point was quite the opposite. Also, the last time Thatcher stood in an election I was still in utero, so I didn't vote for her if that helps. Although a lot of the UK employment law is enshrined in EU law, and in many cases has backup legislation doubling the EU legislation to safeguard it, but then in a post-Brexit world who knows.

Quote
And I'm sure some slave owners have been super nice to their slaves, too. That changes nothing.

I have no idea what you're going for here, but it pretty much seems like you're suggesting I endorse slavery which I most definitely don't.

If what you're suggesting is that all sex work is slavery, then I definitely don't agree with that either. I used the phrase 'sex work,' not 'prostitution' or 'stripping', deliberately, not for this reason, but for example... who is a camgirl working her own profile page on onlyfans, and running a business, enslaved to? Because I'd say a camgirl with her own business licence is less enslaved than a high fashion model who needs the industry itself to succeed.

Perhaps I'm expressing myself poorly, because people don't seem to be happy with what I'm saying, but the point I'm trying to get across was pretty much summed up succinctly enough by spin earlier in the thread:

All labour is exploitative under capitalism. Sex work is not unique in this regard.

...and I laboured the point because I try never to miss an opportunity to erode people's prejudices about sex work in general.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mordhaus on 27 Aug 2020, 23:04
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.


The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. This statement includes 11 family funerals including those of four grandparents.

I'd wager the 'I'm doing this so I don't starve' combined with the creepy leering old dudes and the broke-ass losers "tryin' ta get with" the strippers are the reason for that deressing atmosphere.

As someone who used to work in a club many years ago, I can tell you that most of the women worked there because they chose to. There were a couple that I knew that worked because of a bad situation, but even they changed after a while of working.

The inherent truth of a club is that it is a con game. Even the strippers who don't initially run the game eventually reach a point of doing so because it is economically viable in an extreme sense. The men, gullible mooks that they are, are paying for a fantasy. The women are milking that fantasy as closely as they can without violating the law, raking over a bundle of cash. I've worked at places with house fees and without, but it is typical for a woman who knows how to run the con well to bring home 1k-2k a night in cold hard cash. A lot of them cheat on their taxes as well. Three to four nights a week, or more. One woman I worked with told me she had made well over a 100k the previous year (1993).

Those are the numbers if they are just running the game. If they take it farther and set up dates with clients or allow clients to do things in the rooms, they can easily make more. If they are travelling headliners, it's even more money. That is why a lot of porn stars do strip clubs in their down time, they make more money travelling the clubs than they do per movie, even the 'stars'.

Is there a dark side? Yes, there are always a small number of women who had mental or substance issues. The thing is, they don't last long because they can't run the con well. Or they try to and get caught by the law.

I have been out of the game for a very long time, but if you had walked into a club back in the 90's and tried to reason with one of the strippers, they would have laughed you out of the place. To them it's a way to control men and get paid. I was even conned by them initially. I had been working at Arby's when I was 18 and a pair of women came in around 2 AM (LSS, it was an Arby's in a 24 hour truck stop). They persuaded the night supervisor to give them free food if they flashed their tits. I managed to get one of their numbers and she led me down the path of working in the club she was in. Then when she found someone with a better cash flow, I was history. Strippers are mercenary to the core.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mordhaus on 27 Aug 2020, 23:10
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, [...]
Why, the only ethics of capitalism is that greed is good. If you're not greedy, you cannot gain the special status of being capitalist, and without greed, you cannot improve or even just keep the status of capitalist. There is no other actual ethical imperative in this system.

For example just check out what capitalism did to christmas. Many people hate christmas because its so materialistic nowadays.


The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to.  [...]
Why, thats exactly what I would expect ... and thankfully nobody has ever tried to drag me to such a place.

To be honest, I'm not even sure my country (Germany) has such places.


British law also allows you to volunteer to sacrifice certain employment rights [...]
You cannot "sacrifice rights".

Or do you know a way to "sacrifice" a human right ?

And thanks to a certain Mrs Tatcher, british law isnt exactly exemplary in regards to worker rights.


Many people do not object to the risks of sex work, they object to the 'sex' of sex work. A perfectly pleasant transaction [...]
And I'm sure some slave owners have been super nice to their slaves, too. That changes nothing.

They have a few clubs, but since prostitution/brothels are legal in Germany, stripping isn't the draw that it is in a place where sex acts for money are illegal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: brasca on 27 Aug 2020, 16:57
A lot has been said about May not deserving to be stuck in a substandard chassis after paying her debt to society, but I still find it hard to believe enough people contributed to this fundraiser if they actually met her.  Maybe Roko wrote a really heart wrenching story.

My theory is that most QC characters are big softies.

There’s only so much they can give.  Spidrift mentions Faye and Hannelore scaring people into giving although guilt tripping is probably more likely.  Most people who gave haven’t met May which is probably why this fundraiser was a success.  The more you know the less charitable you get. 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Zebediah on 27 Aug 2020, 18:16
New comic's up, and, um, yeah. There it is, a new comic.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: shanejayell on 27 Aug 2020, 18:20
New comic's up, and, um, yeah. There it is, a new comic.

Yup, yup NUDE comic.

Did I say nude? Meant new.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: tbodt on 27 Aug 2020, 18:21
I'm going to have to agree with Roko here.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Kairi on 27 Aug 2020, 18:37
May is happy. May is happy. Look at her living her life. Beeps, you are a fairy godmother. Well done. <3
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 27 Aug 2020, 19:05
Argh, the details in this comic! Like the jiggle lines around the male stripper's... assets  :o


This is an interesting mental picture to carry with me into the weekend anyway  8)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 27 Aug 2020, 19:37
That's how I'm making my first-day-of-school entrance this year.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Carl-E on 27 Aug 2020, 20:05
With strippers, or as one? 

 :-D  :roll:  :psyduck:
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 20:30
Ok we get it, you don't want help, you don't want money, you don't deserve anything, you feel like a fraud yeah, yeah hard shell protecting someone who, deep down, cares for her friends but May is rapidly (if not already) turning into an insufferable, ungrateful little b**ch

I don't know if the author was aiming for it deliberately or just got there inadvertently but hes really nailed the attitude of the majority of prisoners with his portrayal of May
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 27 Aug 2020, 20:46
With strippers, or as one? 

 :-D  :roll:  :psyduck:

I don't have a preference, but in reality, I'm more like the no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service AI at the door.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 27 Aug 2020, 20:47
Ok we get it, you don't want help, you don't want money, you don't deserve anything, you feel like a fraud yeah, yeah hard shell protecting someone who cares but May is rapidly (if not already) turning into an insufferable, ungrateful little b**ch

I don't know if the author was aiming for it deliberately or just got there inadvertently but hes really nailed the attitude of the majority of prisoners with his portrayal of May

Now I am far from the biggest May supporter out there, but I feel like this is a bit...overly harsh, especially deciding to drop a gendered insult like that...May's bracing for something bad to happen, May's not used to good things happen, she's a rude,annoying pessimest, with a glass is empty outlook, that's being surprised every day that things aren't going to be yoinked from her hands.

Yes she could be way more appreciative and excited about this, but at this point a sudden flow of sincere appreciation and excitement would seem bizzarely out of character for her...She's gradually warming up, it's just a long thaw.

I absolutely understand being severely annoyed with how much slack EVERYONE gives this icy, insulting, mean person that likes to blame other people for their problems....but she's a flawed "human" character and people be like that.

There's no need to call her a b*tch.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 20:48
I am so very glad I take a late lunch.

Not sure I'd ever live it down [1] if any of my coworkers saw me scrolling down to that last panel.



1. I never realized what an odd phrase that is until I typed it out on my phone just now.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 20:55
Quote
There's no need to call her a b*tch.

She stops acting b***hy I'll stop calling her a b**ch

I mean she seriously won't be happy unless there are strippers involved? This is exactly what I'm talking about with convicts, they're never happy with what they're given, they always (and I mean always) want more

Wants a new body, gets the money for a new body (even a top of the line body) but still not happy until strippers are involved

An ex-con will now have a superior (possibly) body than most robots that haven't broken the law but hey its alright because really shes a good person deep down
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 27 Aug 2020, 20:56
Quote
There's no need to call her a b*tch.

She stops acting b***hy I'll stop calling her a b**ch

I mean she seriously won't be happy unless there are strippers involved? This is exactly what I'm talking about with convicts, they're never happy with what they're given, they always (and I mean always) want more

Wants a new body, gets the money for a new body (even a top of the line body) but still not happy until strippers are involved

An ex-con will now have a superior (possibly) body than most robots that haven't broken the law but hey its alright because really shes a good person deep down

It's a webcomic, there is going to be a punchline at the end of the page, the punchline is strippers.

You're using a gendered insult when there doesn't need to be one.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 21:00
Quote
You're using a gendered insult when there doesn't need to be one.

Its ok because deep down I'm a good person so everyone will forgive me
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 21:02
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.

The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. This statement includes 11 family funerals including those of four grandparents.

I'd wager the 'I'm doing this so I don't starve' combined with the creepy leering old dudes and the broke-ass losers "tryin' ta get with" the strippers are the reason for that deressing atmosphere.

As someone who used to work in a club many years ago, I can tell you that most of the women worked there because they chose to. There were a couple that I knew that worked because of a bad situation, but even they changed after a while of working.

The inherent truth of a club is that it is a con game. Even the strippers who don't initially run the game eventually reach a point of doing so because it is economically viable in an extreme sense. The men, gullible mooks that they are, are paying for a fantasy. The women are milking that fantasy as closely as they can without violating the law, raking over a bundle of cash. I've worked at places with house fees and without, but it is typical for a woman who knows how to run the con well to bring home 1k-2k a night in cold hard cash. A lot of them cheat on their taxes as well. Three to four nights a week, or more. One woman I worked with told me she had made well over a 100k the previous year (1993).

Those are the numbers if they are just running the game. If they take it farther and set up dates with clients or allow clients to do things in the rooms, they can easily make more. If they are travelling headliners, it's even more money. That is why a lot of porn stars do strip clubs in their down time, they make more money travelling the clubs than they do per movie, even the 'stars'.

Is there a dark side? Yes, there are always a small number of women who had mental or substance issues. The thing is, they don't last long because they can't run the con well. Or they try to and get caught by the law.

I have been out of the game for a very long time, but if you had walked into a club back in the 90's and tried to reason with one of the strippers, they would have laughed you out of the place. To them it's a way to control men and get paid. I was even conned by them initially. I had been working at Arby's when I was 18 and a pair of women came in around 2 AM (LSS, it was an Arby's in a 24 hour truck stop). They persuaded the night supervisor to give them free food if they flashed their tits. I managed to get one of their numbers and she led me down the path of working in the club she was in. Then when she found someone with a better cash flow, I was history. Strippers are mercenary to the core.

That amount is strictly contingent on one of the key cornerstones of good business; location location location.
I'd imagine strippers in a dive(?) strip clubon the 'bad side of the tracks' in OKC  are taking home less than a stripper from a high-endclub in OKC. And both probably aren't taking home as much as strippers from either coast. Literally or comparatively (accounting for cost of living and such).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 27 Aug 2020, 21:04
Quote
You're using a gendered insult when there doesn't need to be one.

Its ok because deep down I'm a good person so everyone will forgive me

Or forget you.

(removed by moderator) are  a dime a dozen online and IRL. Please work on whatever issue(s) you have. Possibly consider another line of work.

EDIT: typo-fix; 'dime' not 'die'. No threat intended.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 21:16
Quote
Possibly consider another line of work.

Quite arrogant of you to decide what line of work I should be in don't you think? I could ask you what experience you have in Corrections that makes you such an expert to be able to decide something like that (but really I don't care about your opinion) I will say though that maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement on me

Join up with Corrections in your country, walk the floor, deal with the prisoners, take the abuse, worry if the threats will be carried out, work the holidays, work the nights, wonder if this will be the day someone blindsides you, break up the fights, do the at risk on rape victims, console the bereaved, explain verbally what they can't read, listen to the complaints, wonder what diseases the urine, shit, semen, blood or phlegm on your clothes contain, look up someones asshole to see if they're hiding anything up there and the paperwork, don't forget the paperwork

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Sorflakne on 27 Aug 2020, 21:21
Huh, what do you know.  Strippers showed up after all.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 27 Aug 2020, 21:25
Quote
Possibly consider another line of work.

Quite arrogant of you to decide what line of work I should be in don't you think? I could ask you what experience you have in Corrections that makes you such an expert to be able to decide something like that (but really I don't care about your opinion) I will say though that maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement on me

Join up with Corrections in your country, walk the floor, deal with the prisoners, take the abuse, worry if the threats will be carried out, work the holidays, work the nights, wonder if this will be the day someone blindsides you, break up the fights, do the at risk on rape victims, console the bereaved, explain verbally what they can't read, listen to the complaints, wonder what diseases the urine, shit, semen, blood or phlegm on your clothes contain, look up someones asshole to see if they're hiding anything up there and the paperwork, don't forget the paperwork

Why are you here on a discussion forum if you don't care about anyone's opinion but your own?????
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 27 Aug 2020, 21:32
Guys, can we please take it down a notch? Things are getting very heated here
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 21:36
Quote
Why are you here on a discussion forum if you don't care about anyone's opinion but your own?????

Where did I say I don't care about anyones opinion?

I said I didn't care about Gyrres opinion. As soon as someone says something like "I disagree with your opinion therefore you should consider another line of work even though I have no idea what its like to work as a (insert occupation here)"  I lose all interest in their opinion because its such a tired, cliched thing to say
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 27 Aug 2020, 21:38
Guys, can we please take it down a notch? Things are getting very heated here

Fair enough
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 27 Aug 2020, 21:40
Huh, what do you know.  Strippers showed up after all.

Strippers are like wizards, they show up when they are needed most!
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 27 Aug 2020, 21:55
I was not expecting any of this from Beepatrice. She's normally so..."reasonable" feels like the wrong word. I guess "clean?" That's not quite what I'm going for, but you get my point.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Aug 2020, 21:56
Global Moderator Comment Point 1, I am uncomfortable with the temperature here. Point 2, we have had women with long proven histories of not sweating the small stuff who have told us that having sex-based insults used even against a fictional character interferes with their feeling welcome. Point 3, we have some ex-con members who don't deserve to be insulted.

I don't think the description of endless demands fits May. She's barely accepting the gift, and the strippers were a punch line. It certainly does not fit the former correctional officer I corresponded with when she was in prison. She got released to homelessness without even nominal gate money, and by dint of effort I may never learn the extent of put herself through CDL school and is working 14-hour days to support her kids.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 27 Aug 2020, 22:19
I'm a teenager living in a mostly white community, far enough away from the nearest prison that I don't even know where it is. I can't hope to understand who's right and who's wrong in this situation. What I can understand is this:

Getting angrier makes you less and less likely to get your point across. As the argument heats up, the participants tend to cling closer and closer to their opinions. If you want a discussion to be considered a civil debate and not a frothing flame war, you have to de-escalate.

I've been seeing more and more heated arguments on the forums. I joined because I thought it was a place where I could talk to others about a comic without the usual internet problems. By all means, feel free to share your opinions, but for everyone's sake, please do so in a civil and respectful way.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 27 Aug 2020, 22:21
New comic's up, and, um, yeah. There it is, a new comic.

Yep. You're right, it's a comic.

And it is new. Kinda. I mean, it's more of what we've already seen in terms of behaviour and ideas, so probably reactions will be pretty quiet. Still, can't wait to read them when they arrive.

*waits patiently*
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 27 Aug 2020, 22:36
Quote from: Gnabberwocky
By all means, feel free to share your opinions, but for everyone's sake, please do so in a civil and respectful way.

Global Moderator Comment Yes, please. I urge new people to look at the debates in Akima's posting history. She is passionate, uncompromising, and creates mutual respect in every argument she's in.

Global Moderator Comment Now that expectations are clear, the next gendered insult will be deleted, and the next personal exchange will get the thread locked.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: brasca on 27 Aug 2020, 22:51
It would seem that Beepatrice has some aptitude when it comes to organizing strippers.  Maybe they’re coworkers from her sex toy testing job.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 27 Aug 2020, 23:12
Well, that's another comic  that likely was funnier in Jeph's head than it's turned out to be. Oddly enough, the thing that breaks it most for me is May's meme sunglasses. It gives the panel an unfinished feel or that Jeph is trying to be one of the 'cool kids' and not really understanding how.

So, overall, yeah, I'm with panel 3 Roko on this one.

I was not expecting any of this from Beepatrice. She's normally so..."reasonable" feels like the wrong word. I guess "clean?" That's not quite what I'm going for, but you get my point.

Yeah, it's a bit OOC and feels crowbarred in to justify the 'joke' in panel 3.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: St.Clair on 27 Aug 2020, 23:53
So, overall, yeah, I'm with panel 3 Roko on this one.

Same.  :-\
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Y on 28 Aug 2020, 00:27
What if those aren't strippers but body-positivity coaches instead?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: pwhodges on 28 Aug 2020, 01:18
Quote
You're using a gendered insult when there doesn't need to be one.

Its ok because deep down I'm a good person so everyone will forgive me

Global Moderator Comment The Internet judges what you display on the screen, though. Take note of the criticism.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 28 Aug 2020, 01:28
The following is meant solely in response to today's comic and not directed at any forummite or previous comment in this thread.

If I had the self confidence for it, I'd quit my stressful job and become a male stripper.
I'd probably be on my feet about the same with the dance practice, though.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 28 Aug 2020, 01:45
Quote
The Internet judges what you display on the screen, though.  Take note of the criticism.[/gmod]

This was sorted hours ago, please stop trying to reignite the situation.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 28 Aug 2020, 04:46
It just hit me that May is the same character as Ouiser Boudreaux in Steel Magnolias.  She feels, with possibly sufficient justification, that life has taken a dump all over her and continues to do so no matter what happens to her.  She's got a maximum-force Good Thing happening to her and doesn't know what to do because she wants that new body desperately, but she's terrified something will go wrong and she'll be stuck, still, in the junk she's wearing now, AND she doesn't understand what the protocol is for showing proper gratitude to the people making all this happen.  So now she's conjured the party-scene-image, and will likely make an idiot of herself, which will get her thrown out of the shop and therefore reinforcing her negative expectations.  Roko is right, and Roko's mistake is going along with this at all.

But what in the world has happened to Beeps (look at her eyes in panel 2 of 4340 - she's never been so sneaky before)?  Will she make a play for May?  Or try to get May to find a body Beeps finds ... interesting?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 28 Aug 2020, 05:08
Quote
She feels, with possibly sufficient justification, that life has taken a dump all over her and continues to do so no matter what happens to her. 

Apart from meeting up with and taken in by Dale, being friends with Momo, having a job, getting free (or heavily discounted) body work from Bubbles and Faye and getting a a whole heap of money from strangers
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Kairi on 28 Aug 2020, 06:36
I am still just happy that May is experiencing happiness on her terms. Not a vision of happiness someone else told her she needs to have. Clearly trauma runs deep in AI just as with humans. (As we've seen with Bubbles.) It's gonna take more time to heal. And I think *really listening to her* like Beeps did here is a great step in that direction. Showing her she can become a person of her own making.

Also the strippers were clearly set up as a way to assuage the specific fear of seeming poor in a "rich" shop. She busted in with a display of wealth and power. Overcompensation? Yes. But it got her in the door.

If, IRL, a person is being hurt by actions by someone like May, absolutely they can cut her out of their life. People are under no obligation to keep a relationship that is toxic to them. But this comic is a beautiful example of what to do if you decide that the person is worth the effort. QC is good people doing their best. And it's my favorite thing and why I love this comic dearly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 28 Aug 2020, 06:39
Quote
She feels, with possibly sufficient justification, that life has taken a dump all over her and continues to do so no matter what happens to her. 

Apart from meeting up with and taken in by Dale, being friends with Momo, having a job, getting free (or heavily discounted) body work from Bubbles and Faye and getting a a whole heap of money from strangers

I don't feel that there is a margin of generosity where she ceases to be deserving.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 28 Aug 2020, 06:46
Quote
I don't feel that there is a margin of generosity where she ceases to be deserving.

Just saying that her life isn't as bad as she thinks it is but then maybe thats part of the narrative shes built up for herself
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: SpanielBear on 28 Aug 2020, 06:57
Quote
I don't feel that there is a margin of generosity where she ceases to be deserving.

Just saying that her life isn't as bad as she thinks it is but then maybe thats part of the narrative shes built up for herself

Her body is quite literally disintegrating.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 28 Aug 2020, 07:10
Quote
Her body is quite literally disintegrating.

Yes and thats sad however that doesn't take away everything else thats good in her life
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: BenRG on 28 Aug 2020, 07:18
Both Chris and SpanielBear make good points. However, I think that, whilst Chris is correct that May has many blessings for which she should be grateful, I do think that he's ignoring the degree to which the psychological consequences of her physiological condition impacts on her ability to appreciate those blessings. Yes, she has many good things in her life. Unfortunately, she also has a great number of bad things in her life and one or two absolutely terrible things. Unfortunately, as with most humans, the bad outweighs the good.

It is all very well to wag your finger and tut-tut about her ingratitude but her situation makes it impossible for her to fully appreciate it. I find it odd that Chris, with his experience, isn't more aware of the way that negative psychological pressures can make people cynical, disruptive and outright obnoxious, even  when they have every possible rational cause to want to be otherwise and modifies his expectations accordingly.

That said... Yeah, May is a brat who enjoys being the rowdy teenage class clown a bit too much. That's definitely one of the major negatives of who she is.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 28 Aug 2020, 08:48
Quote
I find it odd that Chris, with his experience, isn't more aware of the way that negative psychological pressures can make people cynical, disruptive and outright obnoxious, even  when they have every possible rational cause to want to be otherwise and modifies his expectations accordingly.

That said... Yeah, May is a brat who enjoys being the rowdy teenage class clown a bit too much. That's definitely one of the major negatives of who she is.

I'm aware of it but people still make their own choices and May, to a large degree, chooses to act the way she does
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 28 Aug 2020, 09:22
May's cynicism is holding her back, as I see it.

I wonder if she's the new Faye, reminding forum people of seriously unpleasant incidents with people from their past. Faye showed more attempts to get better (while remaining stuck).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 28 Aug 2020, 10:13
Quote
I don't feel that there is a margin of generosity where she ceases to be deserving.

Just saying that her life isn't as bad as she thinks it is but then maybe thats part of the narrative shes built up for herself

Chris, I am a little concerned about how much spite you seem to have directed to a fictional AI.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 28 Aug 2020, 11:22
In this instance, as well as with some others, I can feel for May. I don’t know what her life was like before gaol, but I can understand being a bit prickly and suspicious h here. Anyone who has been shat on enough by life, or abused can.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: TinPenguin on 28 Aug 2020, 11:54
Honestly, my primary concern with this comic is whether those strippers are being paid out of the fundraiser money.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: cesium133 on 28 Aug 2020, 12:13
Perhaps Beeps knows them from her job. Also, I seem to vaguely remember the male stripper showing up previously in the comic, but I don’t remember when it was.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 28 Aug 2020, 13:07
Perhaps Beeps knows them from her job. Also, I seem to vaguely remember the male stripper showing up previously in the comic, but I don’t remember when it was.

Just because Beeps works at a sex toy company, does not mean that the people who work there are also strippers lol

Also dang I wish when MY body is falling apart/becoming crap I can just buy a new one DX<
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Beast_Reborn on 28 Aug 2020, 15:27
As someone who used to work in a club many years ago, I can tell you that most of the women worked there because they chose to. There were a couple that I knew that worked because of a bad situation, but even they changed after a while of working.

The inherent truth of a club is that it is a con game. Even the strippers who don't initially run the game eventually reach a point of doing so because it is economically viable in an extreme sense. The men, gullible mooks that they are, are paying for a fantasy. The women are milking that fantasy as closely as they can without violating the law, raking over a bundle of cash. I've worked at places with house fees and without, but it is typical for a woman who knows how to run the con well to bring home 1k-2k a night in cold hard cash. A lot of them cheat on their taxes as well. Three to four nights a week, or more. One woman I worked with told me she had made well over a 100k the previous year (1993).

Those are the numbers if they are just running the game. If they take it farther and set up dates with clients or allow clients to do things in the rooms, they can easily make more. If they are travelling headliners, it's even more money. That is why a lot of porn stars do strip clubs in their down time, they make more money travelling the clubs than they do per movie, even the 'stars'.

Is there a dark side? Yes, there are always a small number of women who had mental or substance issues. The thing is, they don't last long because they can't run the con well. Or they try to and get caught by the law.

I have been out of the game for a very long time, but if you had walked into a club back in the 90's and tried to reason with one of the strippers, they would have laughed you out of the place. To them it's a way to control men and get paid. I was even conned by them initially. I had been working at Arby's when I was 18 and a pair of women came in around 2 AM (LSS, it was an Arby's in a 24 hour truck stop). They persuaded the night supervisor to give them free food if they flashed their tits. I managed to get one of their numbers and she led me down the path of working in the club she was in. Then when she found someone with a better cash flow, I was history. Strippers are mercenary to the core.
Thanks for this perspective. It seems to address some concerns while raising others. It does seem to confirm my feeling that getting anywhere near this business, in any capacity, isn't a great idea.

May obviously feels differently. The strippers might just be an ephemeral punchline, but if not, I don't see how this could turn out well. She's covering up her insecurity with a display of vulgarity and bravado. I sympathize with the desire to do this - I don't feel entirely comfortable in an upscale fashion mall either (but really, the "fancy-assness" of this store is probably mostly in her head - lots of AIs have bodies, not just the 1%). However, this tactic is likely to further alienate her from the broader community that she's still trying to reintegrate into. She needs to realize that she belongs in this store as much as anyone else. I'm surprised that Roko is going along with this, even reluctantly.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Farideh on 28 Aug 2020, 15:33
Roko probably saw this option as the lesser of two evils: either 'allow' the strippers, or have May dig her heels in even further.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Mordhaus on 28 Aug 2020, 15:58
All forms of sexual labor, including stripping, are ethically risky under capitalism, or any regime where the possibility exists that someone might be driven to such labor solely because it's the only way they can survive. What's important isn't whether money changes hands, but whether the person is genuinely free and consenting. "This is the only way I can stave off starvation and/or homelessness" does not count as consent for this purpose. In principle, the gender of the strippers doesn't matter, though in practice, the majority of sex workers are women, so it's a feminist issue.

The few strip clubs I've been dragged to are literally the most depressing places I've ever been to. This statement includes 11 family funerals including those of four grandparents.

I'd wager the 'I'm doing this so I don't starve' combined with the creepy leering old dudes and the broke-ass losers "tryin' ta get with" the strippers are the reason for that deressing atmosphere.

As someone who used to work in a club many years ago, I can tell you that most of the women worked there because they chose to. There were a couple that I knew that worked because of a bad situation, but even they changed after a while of working.

The inherent truth of a club is that it is a con game. Even the strippers who don't initially run the game eventually reach a point of doing so because it is economically viable in an extreme sense. The men, gullible mooks that they are, are paying for a fantasy. The women are milking that fantasy as closely as they can without violating the law, raking over a bundle of cash. I've worked at places with house fees and without, but it is typical for a woman who knows how to run the con well to bring home 1k-2k a night in cold hard cash. A lot of them cheat on their taxes as well. Three to four nights a week, or more. One woman I worked with told me she had made well over a 100k the previous year (1993).

Those are the numbers if they are just running the game. If they take it farther and set up dates with clients or allow clients to do things in the rooms, they can easily make more. If they are travelling headliners, it's even more money. That is why a lot of porn stars do strip clubs in their down time, they make more money travelling the clubs than they do per movie, even the 'stars'.

Is there a dark side? Yes, there are always a small number of women who had mental or substance issues. The thing is, they don't last long because they can't run the con well. Or they try to and get caught by the law.

I have been out of the game for a very long time, but if you had walked into a club back in the 90's and tried to reason with one of the strippers, they would have laughed you out of the place. To them it's a way to control men and get paid. I was even conned by them initially. I had been working at Arby's when I was 18 and a pair of women came in around 2 AM (LSS, it was an Arby's in a 24 hour truck stop). They persuaded the night supervisor to give them free food if they flashed their tits. I managed to get one of their numbers and she led me down the path of working in the club she was in. Then when she found someone with a better cash flow, I was history. Strippers are mercenary to the core.

That amount is strictly contingent on one of the key cornerstones of good business; location location location.
I'd imagine strippers in a dive(?) strip clubon the 'bad side of the tracks' in OKC  are taking home less than a stripper from a high-endclub in OKC. And both probably aren't taking home as much as strippers from either coast. Literally or comparatively (accounting for cost of living and such).

You are most likely correct. I would make an educated guess that even in areas where strippers can't pull that kind of money, they are still very likely to be making much more than the average wage in that locale. I can only speak to what I know based upon the region I was in at the time, although I did work multiple clubs (some good, some bad) before I moved on to a more normal work environment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gus_Smedstad on 28 Aug 2020, 22:46
Chris, I am a little concerned about how much spite you seem to have directed to a fictional AI.

I'm not. I'd say it's actually kind of normal.

QC is very much a character-driven strip. While not every character is fleshed out (hello, Melon!), many of them are fairly complex. Many (most?) people on this forum spend a lot of time talking about them and their actions as if they were real people. Disliking a particular character is just the flip side of the affection that forum regulars display toward characters like Bubbles.

Or to put it another way, if you're upset that someone intensely dislikes a character you kind of like, how is that any different? If you feel a character is "just a fictional AI," shouldn't you be largely indifferent?

Fictional characters, in QC or in books, push our buttons because they remind us of people we've met in real life. We are, in a way, talking about the real people whose reflections we see those fictional characters.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 29 Aug 2020, 00:07
QC is very much a character-driven strip. While not every character is fleshed out (hello, Melon!), many of them are fairly complex. Many (most?) people on this forum spend a lot of time talking about them and their actions as if they were real people. Disliking a particular character is just the flip side of the affection that forum regulars display toward characters like Bubbles.

It's not a matter of whether someone likes or dislikes any particular character, it's a matter of degree (in either direction).

People come here and express emotions towards QC characters every day. It's only when the level of emotion reaches an unusual level that this attracts specific comment.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Boxer on 29 Aug 2020, 01:46
I blame Pintsize, his donation was Canadian dollars.
To be fair, they are Canadian Strippers and they said Sorry immediately to the store clerk.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 29 Aug 2020, 02:58
Quote
Chris, I am a little concerned about how much spite you seem to have directed to a fictional AI.

May very much reminds me of a lot of the prisoners I deal with day to day.  The entitled ones, the ones who blame all their problems on everything but themselves, that actively resist all efforts to help, its extremely...tiring to deal with them, to try help them

As an example literacy and numeracy is a big problem in our prisons and we have many programs so you'd think it'd be a simple deal to get the guys on the courses to help themselves but no its like pulling teeth.
First there are the guys who say they want to do the courses but only say that so they can be transferred to the "softer" units and then say they won't go. Then there are the guys that're only attending the courses because they need it for their parole and then actively play up on the course thereby making it harder for the few who do actually want to learn (and then kick up a fuss and make complaints when they're removed from the course) there are also the ones who insist on one to one tutoring because its the only way they learn  and of course don't forget the ones who go just so they can transfer contraband to other units via the other prisoners

May has gotten a rough deal with her body breaking down for sure however her actions are what got her there in the first place (if I remember correctly) but since then shes been taken in by Dale, made friends with Momo, has Roko on her case (in a good way) and now had a substantial amount of money given to her for a new body and every step of the way shes made it a struggle for everyone and, IRL, thats just really tiring and frustrating

Personal anecdote time, a case prisoner of mine was a couple of weeks away from being released so his case manager and probation officer were trying to find a bed for this guy (he had no one and his family wanted nothing to do with him) so it probably was going to be with the Salvation Army however they also needed to find a bed for this guy so do you think this guy was appreciative of how many people (minimum of four different departments by this time) were trying to sort something out for him, of course not because he wanted to know right there and then and, in his words, "if you (meaning me) don't sort it out I'll just commit another crime and come back to prison"

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Aug 2020, 13:59
Except May didn't act entitled to the fundraiser. I vaguely remember she opposed the idea at first, and instead of acting like it was just what she ought to have and demanding more, she refused to believe in it.

That said, I would find her frustrating to deal with in real life, especially if I'd had to deal with similar people before.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 29 Aug 2020, 14:38
Chris, would you care to reflect on why it is you think that so many prisoners end up this way?
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 29 Aug 2020, 17:20
Chris, would you care to reflect on why it is you think that so many prisoners end up this way?

Interesting question. May committed a crime so shes a convicted criminal but is she a criminal

Generally speaking most criminals can be categorized as selfish, with no empathy, manipulative and with no thoughts given to long term planning

I'll have to wait until tonight to answer it fully as I'm on night shift at the moment so I'll be able to answer the question properly (and I dislike typing on a phone)
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: oddtail on 29 Aug 2020, 17:26
Generally speaking most criminals can be categorized as selfish with no empathy and manipulative with no long term planning

When you have time to write a longer post, I'm gonna need a source for that claim. Because to me it's not as self-evident as I assume it is for you. What's more, I strongly disagree with this assertion.

EDIT: I'd also like a clarification of what you mean by "criminal". By default I assume it refers to a person that committed a crime serious enough to warrant punishment as per the law, and did it at least once. But maybe you mean a person who commits crimes repeatedly or habitually. If you refer to anyone who's ever committed a crime, we're entering uneasy territory, because I think one'd be hard-pressed to find all that many people who've *never* broken the law in a way that's punishable at least in theory. So I'm wondering what the threshold is for a person to qualify as a criminal.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 29 Aug 2020, 17:47
While you are at it, another question to reflect on would be whether the characteristics you're listing are a cause of criminality or a result of spending time in the prison system, or whether they are all correlated but caused by an entirely separate factor e.g. upbringing or genetics (or some combination of these things).
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 29 Aug 2020, 19:12
There's also the matter of money and privilege.  The rich seldom have to face any consequences, and when they do, it's usually a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Oenone on 29 Aug 2020, 20:46
What I like about May is that she’s been trying her best to be a good friend to Momo and Dale, and has really tried hard to be financially independent. What makes her prickly is her pride. She doesn’t want their help not just because she thinks she doesn’t deserve it but because it embarrasses her to be in a position where she needs this type of financial and material help.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: hedgie on 29 Aug 2020, 21:07
I don't think that it's just pride.  Kick a puppy enough, and it'll even snap at innocents that try to help it.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 29 Aug 2020, 21:12
We do know that May has documented problems with lack of impulse control.

As far as we know it was a first offense, so not proof by itself that she is depraved.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: jesslc on 30 Aug 2020, 01:28
Several people called it but I did like seeing May say she wants to look at their most reasonably priced and reliable new bodies. Very sensible of her. And also in character with the way she been (gradually) growing over the course of her time in the comic.

I was not expecting any of this from Beepatrice. She's normally so..."reasonable" feels like the wrong word. I guess "clean?" That's not quite what I'm going for, but you get my point.
Beeps does have a "clean" (for lack of a better word) image a lot of the time but in that first interview with Roko, Beeps was very curious after Roko let slip about her bread fetish. I've had the impression that Beeps has internalised some shame/embarrassment around their other job rather than being an innately prudish person. I think that framing it as "the strippers are for helping May feel better about this" possibly allows Beeps to bypass that internalised shame/embarrassment.

Also Beeps did suggest a bikini car wash fundraiser here: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4310



By the way, has there been any official word on Beeps's pronouns? In the early comics featuring Beeps, Jeph's author comment used "they" to refer to Beeps and Roko also used "they" when talking about Beeps with Bubbles later (links below). But I'm pretty sure I've also seen an author comment and/or a character in comic use "she/her" when referring to Beeps at a later date.

https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3884
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3892
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 30 Aug 2020, 02:43
Generally speaking most criminals can be categorized as selfish with no empathy and manipulative with no long term planning

When you have time to write a longer post, I'm gonna need a source for that claim. Because to me it's not as self-evident as I assume it is for you. What's more, I strongly disagree with this assertion.

EDIT: I'd also like a clarification of what you mean by "criminal". By default I assume it refers to a person that committed a crime serious enough to warrant punishment as per the law, and did it at least once. But maybe you mean a person who commits crimes repeatedly or habitually. If you refer to anyone who's ever committed a crime, we're entering uneasy territory, because I think one'd be hard-pressed to find all that many people who've *never* broken the law in a way that's punishable at least in theory. So I'm wondering what the threshold is for a person to qualify as a criminal.

18 months working the floor in units from minimum to maximum including ISU including stints in both mens and womens prisons is where I get my assertions from. If you rape, assault, steal, rob, hurt etc etc someone then yeah thats to me a lack of empathy, you don't care about the other persons view on the matter, you don't care what you're doing to them, all you want in that moment is to satisfy you're own selfish desires (money, sex, power whatever) so thats why I categorise prisoners as mostly selfish and lacking empathy,  can you tell me why you disagree?

Its a tricky one, its sort of like pornography in that I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it but habitually is probably the best definition



Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 30 Aug 2020, 03:32
Quote
Chris, would you care to reflect on why it is you think that so many prisoners end up this way?

I've touched on this before on page 5 and 6 of the criminal justice reform thread but same of the questions to be asked about this are:

Why are so many men getting women pregnant when contraception is widely available (and why do the men run away from their responsibilities), why are so many women taking drugs/smoking/drinking while pregnant when theres so much knowledge what damage can be done to the baby, why is prison the best option for so many prisoners, why arn't there enough hospital beds to mental illness/drug addiction, where are the meaningful jobs but if you were to sort out those issues then you'd find there'd be a lot less people in prison

If these questions could be answered

Quote
While you are at it, another question to reflect on would be whether the characteristics you're listing are a cause of criminality or a result of spending time in the prison system, or whether they are all correlated but caused by an entirely separate factor e.g. upbringing or genetics (or some combination of these things).

Well the thing is to be sent to prison (in NZ anyway) you have to have done something pretty serious so the judges will generally look at fines, home detention, community work before being sent away so arguably jail itself doesn't play much of a part at all (or at least the repercussions of their actions don't) however once they're inside then they can certainly make contacts and gangs are always looking for prospects (or victims)

I do think genetics plays a part in it, there've always been criminals and there'll always be criminals no matter what type of justice is around  so not wanting to sit on the fence but really its some, all or most likely a combination of the things you mentioned above

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gyrre on 30 Aug 2020, 04:41
Chris, would you care to reflect on why it is you think that so many prisoners end up this way?

I work with a bunch of ex-cons.

Most ended up in prison thanks to being dealt a bad hand and making bad decisions. The ones that are a royal pain in the ass are the ones who're hard-headed and seem like they always have to be breaking at least one rule (chewing gum, phone out on the floor, no helmet, no earplugs, etc). The rest of them are just trying to make do and reintegrate.

Some of them very much do end up much like May; bitter, cynical, and somewhat combative. There are those that are distrustful of any kindness, and those that are still very stuck on themselves. Many of them are very guarded as they've only been out for anywhere from a month to a few years. And I'd imagine that sort of thing takes awhile to get used to. Especially since some of them seem to see me as yet another guard (I'm a line inspector). I try not to let it bother me, but we do work with food, so I can't let the hairnets, beardnets, or gloves slide.

EDIT: (more to add)

Sometimes it's very frustrating. Especially when the floor supervisors won't back us (QA) up. But pretty much all I can do is keep to procedure, show mercy when necessary, and hope that nobody screws up bad enough to get the plant shut down.

I've been there almost long enough to have the requisite experience for other QA jobs, so I've dusted off my resumé as well. Here's hoping nothing falls through.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 30 Aug 2020, 04:58

Quote

I work with a bunch of ex-cons.

Most ended up in prison thanks to being dealt a bad hand and making bad decisions. The ones that are a royal pain in the ass are the ones who're hard-headed and seem like they always have to be breaking at least one rule (chewing gum, phone out on the floor, no helmet, no earplugs, etc). The rest of them are just trying to make do and reintegrate.

Some of them very much do end up much like May; bitter, cynical, and somewhat combative. There are those that are distrustful of any kindness, and those that are still very stuck on themselves. Many of them are very guarded as they've only been out for anywhere from a month to a few years. And I'd imagine that sort of thing takes awhile to get used to. Especially since some of them seem to see me as yet another guard (I'm a line inspector). I try not to let it bother me, but we do work with food, so I can't let the hairnets, beardnets, or gloves slide.

EDIT: (more to add)

Sometimes it's very frustrating. Especially when the floor supervisors won't back us (QA) up. But pretty much all I can do is keep to procedure, show mercy when necessary, and hope that nobody screws up bad enough to get the plant shut down.

I've been there almost long enough to have the requisite experience for other QA jobs, so I've dusted off my resumé as well. Here's hoping nothing falls through.

I get that, if I had to sum up my frustrations in one sentence it would be something like this: no matter what we do the prisoner won't change until the prisoner wants to change

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Reaver on 30 Aug 2020, 07:07

Quote

I work with a bunch of ex-cons.

Most ended up in prison thanks to being dealt a bad hand and making bad decisions. The ones that are a royal pain in the ass are the ones who're hard-headed and seem like they always have to be breaking at least one rule (chewing gum, phone out on the floor, no helmet, no earplugs, etc). The rest of them are just trying to make do and reintegrate.

Some of them very much do end up much like May; bitter, cynical, and somewhat combative. There are those that are distrustful of any kindness, and those that are still very stuck on themselves. Many of them are very guarded as they've only been out for anywhere from a month to a few years. And I'd imagine that sort of thing takes awhile to get used to. Especially since some of them seem to see me as yet another guard (I'm a line inspector). I try not to let it bother me, but we do work with food, so I can't let the hairnets, beardnets, or gloves slide.

EDIT: (more to add)

Sometimes it's very frustrating. Especially when the floor supervisors won't back us (QA) up. But pretty much all I can do is keep to procedure, show mercy when necessary, and hope that nobody screws up bad enough to get the plant shut down.

I've been there almost long enough to have the requisite experience for other QA jobs, so I've dusted off my resumé as well. Here's hoping nothing falls through.

I get that, if I had to sum up my frustrations in one sentence it would be something like this: no matter what we do the prisoner won't change until the prisoner wants to change

That just sounds like people in general tbh.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 30 Aug 2020, 08:01
I've been there almost long enough to have the requisite experience for other QA jobs, so I've dusted off my resumé as well. Here's hoping nothing falls through.
If you haven't already, consider a certification from the asq.  asq.org.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Oenone on 30 Aug 2020, 08:45
The QC Forums: come for he comics stay for the career counseling :)

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: jwhouk on 30 Aug 2020, 09:57

18 months working the floor in units from minimum to maximum including ISU including stints in both mens and womens prisons is where I get my assertions from.
...

Oh.

Okay.

Uh, how do I say this - as someone who used to be in your EXACT SAME POSITION*, I was able to empathize with the people on the other side of the door. The problem was that the population I worked with had made bad decisions and didn't know what a "good" decision was. They also were (for the most part) teenagers.

Dealing with a kid who had stabbed his step-parent 47 times, then tried to tie-off when he was in juvie holding, then turned into a raging maniac when he was off his meds (including climbing the fence and razor wire at our max security building and running around on the roof), and - for the kicker - leaving a ####-smeared piece of paper that he slid into my locker... yeah, that was difficult. He made the choices, though, and I can live with it. (I also can live knowing he's behind bars for life, but that's another story.)

But blanket statements like what you're proposing? Uh, no.

And if I could be so bold as to suggest something? Get. The ####. OUT. Of corrections. Unless you are close to retirement or have a significant investiture in a pension system, GET OUT. That job field damages mind, body, and spirit. I should know.

* - And if it's not the exact same one, it's close enough for rock 'n roll.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 30 Aug 2020, 16:27
Quote
And if I could be so bold as to suggest something? Get. The ####. OUT. Of corrections. Unless you are close to retirement or have a significant investiture in a pension system, GET OUT. That job field damages mind, body, and spirit. I should know.

What exactly are you disagreeing with and why?
Is it my belief they, mostly, lack empathy (do you think they have empathy for their victims) that you disagree with or my belief that a lot of them are quite selfish (you don't think its selfish when someone takes something of someones simply because they want it)

Before you answer have a look at some of the things I wrote on criminal justice reform thread: https://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php/topic,34220.250.html

Lastly you seem to be under the impression that I don't (or can't) empathize with the prisoners well in some cases you're right I can't (and won't) however there are certainly some that I do feel bad, that got a really bad roll of the dice, I don't forgive what they've done but I can understand why they're here however I don't think I could do this job if I didn't have empathy because, to me, its the empathy I have (especially for their victims) that makes me want to help them stay out of prison (its certainly not the money or the hours)

I assume that all COs have, to a lesser or greater degree, some form of PTSD. In order to combat this  I have asked my wife to tell me if she notices any changes in my behavior, I have made the decision to not drink as much as I used to, i (sometimes its a major chore) take regular exercise and when I can I try to get out into our great outdoors as much as possible (something about it does me better then sweating it out in a gym) and I also use our counselling service as and when I feel I need to

I won't be a CO forever (probabtion is where I'm planning on going) but for now CO is where I'm best placed
 
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 30 Aug 2020, 22:22
Empathy ... depends on who and where. I asked my prison pen pal what the biggest surprise of her sentence was. She said it was the kindness of the other women there. (Minimum security camp, so carefully screened prisoners. I don't claim this is a general rule.)

She said the women incarcerated with her were just like any you would meet at the bank or the post office.

What are some examples of May showing empathy? Everything I can remember offhand has her being pretty self-centered.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 30 Aug 2020, 22:28
Empathy ... depends on who and where. I asked my prison pen pal what the biggest surprise of her sentence was. She said it was the kindness of the other women there. (Minimum security camp, so carefully screened prisoners. I don't claim this is a general rule.)

She said the women incarcerated with her were just like any you would meet at the bank or the post office.

What are some examples of May showing empathy? Everything I can remember offhand has her being pretty self-centered.

May helped Dale and Marigold get together in the first place.

Dale accidentally told Marigold that he liked Emily more, and May helped them patch things up.

After the rice incident, May helped Momo clean up and checked in with Dale and Marigold to make sure everything was okay.

Honestly, Dale and Marigold probably wouldn't be together now if not for May.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Wingy on 31 Aug 2020, 04:31
...
What are some examples of May showing empathy? Everything I can remember offhand has her being pretty self-centered.
...
Honestly, Dale and Marigold probably wouldn't be together now if not for May.
One could also argue, successfully I think, that May did that bit of matchmaking to assure herself a cheaper (Dale insisted she pay a share of the rent) place to live without having to be with utter strangers or subject herself to the rental market as a former felon; which would make that action less about empathy and more about self-centered-ness.  Karma being what it is, she engineered a situation where she has to be careful about entering her own domicile because of the possible activities that might be going on...  That, in and of itself, is amusing because May herself is deeply interested in the very same activities and doesn't know how to respond when she's not in the mix.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Tova on 31 Aug 2020, 04:47
One could perhaps argue that, but successfully?

I don't think there's any evidence in the comic to support it, other than your judgement of her character.

Also, you're forgetting that she did her bit of matchmaking while she was still a hologram (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2511) (there's your example, IICIH?). I don't think she was calculating that far ahead.

Just because she doesn't put her empathy on display, and is constantly on guard against any moments of vulnerability, does not mean she possesses no empathy whatsoever.

Dale saw a good person underneath all of that attitude way back in #2514 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2514), and I will never tire of reminding the forums of that.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Gnabberwocky on 31 Aug 2020, 09:14
...
What are some examples of May showing empathy? Everything I can remember offhand has her being pretty self-centered.
...
Honestly, Dale and Marigold probably wouldn't be together now if not for May.
One could also argue, successfully I think, that May did that bit of matchmaking to assure herself a cheaper (Dale insisted she pay a share of the rent) place to live without having to be with utter strangers or subject herself to the rental market as a former felon; which would make that action less about empathy and more about self-centered-ness.  Karma being what it is, she engineered a situation where she has to be careful about entering her own domicile because of the possible activities that might be going on...  That, in and of itself, is amusing because May herself is deeply interested in the very same activities and doesn't know how to respond when she's not in the mix.

It would have been easier for May to be simply apathetic about the situation rather than actively selfish. It seems riskier to try to carefully engineer the lives of two people and an AI by twisting their love livest to your own personal satisfaction than it does to mutter a few condolences and stay out of it. She had every opportunity to just ignore Dale in most of the situations I mentioned, but she didn't.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Scarlet Manuka on 31 Aug 2020, 21:12
By the way, has there been any official word on Beeps's pronouns? In the early comics featuring Beeps, Jeph's author comment used "they" to refer to Beeps and Roko also used "they" when talking about Beeps with Bubbles later (links below). But I'm pretty sure I've also seen an author comment and/or a character in comic use "she/her" when referring to Beeps at a later date.

There's a fair bit of evidence in the postscripts, but nothing in the comic itself as far as I could see.
4129: Can't Stay Mad Forever (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4129) - "Beeps is getting a cute kitty on her back :3".
4209: Tragedy (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4209) - "It was in the hiring packet that she never gave Roko".
4298: Up And At 'Em (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4298) - "Her PJs have a butt-flap because she thinks it's cute".
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 01 Sep 2020, 04:33
Chris, I am a little concerned about how much spite you seem to have directed to a fictional AI.

I'm not. I'd say it's actually kind of normal.

QC is very much a character-driven strip. While not every character is fleshed out (hello, Melon!), many of them are fairly complex. Many (most?) people on this forum spend a lot of time talking about them and their actions as if they were real people. Disliking a particular character is just the flip side of the affection that forum regulars display toward characters like Bubbles.

Or to put it another way, if you're upset that someone intensely dislikes a character you kind of like, how is that any different? If you feel a character is "just a fictional AI," shouldn't you be largely indifferent?

Fictional characters, in QC or in books, push our buttons because they remind us of people we've met in real life. We are, in a way, talking about the real people whose reflections we see those fictional characters.

You misunderstand the crux of my post.

I am a fan of professional wrestling - and I go to shows. I'm pretty well-versed in distinguishing between fun hatred for a fictional villain, or contempt for a character whose ethics are written to be loathsome to you.

May, a character I have historically despised out of annoyance rather than anything else, has not been depicted as someone inherently corrupt or as a 'bad guy' character in any way whatsoever. The level of spite Chris was feeling towards her to me felt as out-of-place as if it had been directed at, say, Marten, or Bubbles.

Quote
Chris, I am a little concerned about how much spite you seem to have directed to a fictional AI.

May very much reminds me of a lot of the prisoners I deal with day to day.  The entitled ones, the ones who blame all their problems on everything but themselves, that actively resist all efforts to help, its extremely...tiring to deal with them, to try help them

As an example literacy and numeracy is a big problem in our prisons and we have many programs so you'd think it'd be a simple deal to get the guys on the courses to help themselves but no its like pulling teeth.
First there are the guys who say they want to do the courses but only say that so they can be transferred to the "softer" units and then say they won't go. Then there are the guys that're only attending the courses because they need it for their parole and then actively play up on the course thereby making it harder for the few who do actually want to learn (and then kick up a fuss and make complaints when they're removed from the course) there are also the ones who insist on one to one tutoring because its the only way they learn  and of course don't forget the ones who go just so they can transfer contraband to other units via the other prisoners

May has gotten a rough deal with her body breaking down for sure however her actions are what got her there in the first place (if I remember correctly) but since then shes been taken in by Dale, made friends with Momo, has Roko on her case (in a good way) and now had a substantial amount of money given to her for a new body and every step of the way shes made it a struggle for everyone and, IRL, thats just really tiring and frustrating

Personal anecdote time, a case prisoner of mine was a couple of weeks away from being released so his case manager and probation officer were trying to find a bed for this guy (he had no one and his family wanted nothing to do with him) so it probably was going to be with the Salvation Army however they also needed to find a bed for this guy so do you think this guy was appreciative of how many people (minimum of four different departments by this time) were trying to sort something out for him, of course not because he wanted to know right there and then and, in his words, "if you (meaning me) don't sort it out I'll just commit another crime and come back to prison"

You know what. Fair enough.

After you made this post the thread keeled off in a direction that was quite confrontational towards you and your viewpoints - and I have to say that we share almost none on this topic.

However I think it would be ridiculous of me as someone who has never even been in a prison to visit someone, never mind had a sentence or worked in one, to chide you for your own emotions and associations related to your job. I can talk better conditions for prisioners until I'm blue in the face, but I'm not about to sit here and tell someone who actually has to do it every day how to do their damn job.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Sep 2020, 11:46
>I can talk better conditions for prisioners until I'm blue in the face

As I have done, but I fully acknowledge how damaging prisons are for the people who work in them. The better run they are (like FCI McLean under Dennis Luther) the better they are for both the prisoners and the people who supervise them.
Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: chris73 on 02 Sep 2020, 03:23
Quote

You know what. Fair enough.

After you made this post the thread keeled off in a direction that was quite confrontational towards you and your viewpoints - and I have to say that we share almost none on this topic.

However I think it would be ridiculous of me as someone who has never even been in a prison to visit someone, never mind had a sentence or worked in one, to chide you for your own emotions and associations related to your job. I can talk better conditions for prisoners until I'm blue in the face, but I'm not about to sit here and tell someone who actually has to do it every day how to do their damn job.

To be fair I bought some (most, all) of it on to myself due to how I put it on the threads. I do have healthy ways to express the frustrations I have but I did let some of those frustrations out on this board in a way that probably wasn't conducive to a robust discussion.

This is a good, positive storyline that helps to right a unfair wrong, in a system that isn't close to being adequate (let alone perfect) and I jumped in with some views which may be accurate but probably (understatement) wasn't necessary.

Title: Re: WCDT Strips 4336-4340 (25th-29th, August 2020)
Post by: Thrillho on 02 Sep 2020, 07:51
Damn, Chris. Thanks for responding.