Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: Alkatyl on 28 Feb 2005, 06:17

Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Alkatyl on 28 Feb 2005, 06:17
I can just say, after listening to listening to the first track* of Frances The Mute, The Mars Volta new albulm, it's an epic masterpiece. And when I say epic, I mean roughly 80 minutes from five songs. I am getting this the moment it's released. Any other convinced fans out there?


*It was a half-hour long, so go listen to it yourself and then diss me.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Spencer on 28 Feb 2005, 07:40
Odd. The copy of Frances The Mute I have is something like 11 or 12 songs....
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: GNI on 28 Feb 2005, 11:39
I havent heard it yet, but i look forward to it.

Yeah, only five songs, but each song has movements (or whatever they have termed them) so its probably a few more tracks.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: GNI on 28 Feb 2005, 12:10
I think they are an aquired taste... i stumbled across them accidentally and was lucky enough to like them and keep the CD rather than hate it and have wasted Ł13.
Title: early
Post by: Euicho on 28 Feb 2005, 12:45
My friend Evan works at a record store sold me the cd early and it does indeed rock my world.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 28 Feb 2005, 12:45
Quote from: James
The Mars "No, ta"!!!???!!!!

roffle.

I plan to buy it. My mind needs a good exploding now and again.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Apathy on 28 Feb 2005, 13:18
I don't quite know what The Mars Volta are trying to accomplish, but it's certainly 'interesting' music.  Not bad, though.  I quite like some of it.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Conatonc on 28 Feb 2005, 15:25
Quote
Yeah, only five songs, but each song has movements (or whatever they have termed them) so its probably a few more tracks.


I saw an interview with Cedric (or Omar, whatever) and he said something about 5 songs only counting as an EP, so they felt it was necessary to split the last track up to avoid contractual difficulties later on.

I like TMV well enough, I thought De-Loused had some wonderful songs on it, and a lot of pointless noodling. But since Frances is also coming out at a low, low price, I will be picking it up this week for sure.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Staplegun on 28 Feb 2005, 15:53
I happen to think that they noodle and meander quite well.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 28 Feb 2005, 18:07
Yeah, apparently Cedric leaves, uh, something to be desired.

And apparently the new album's meanderings do not include two-minute segments of dripping noises and open guitar clicks (see "Cicatriz ESP"), and instead focus on shifting melody! Hooray!
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: jeph on 28 Feb 2005, 19:18
I hated At the Drive-In, I hate the Mars Volta, and Sparta are just kind of boring.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Jooooosh on 28 Feb 2005, 19:33
i just listened to the Mars Volta online, it was..................
interesting, yea, interesting
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Staplegun on 28 Feb 2005, 20:18
Quote from: James
I challenge you to go see them live, and resist the urge to tear your own jaw off.

I couldn't!
*insert skeleton here*
(Also I'm a skellington, apparently.)


What exactly are they like live?

Do they jam out a lot? Because I like that. I saw RxBandits live and they jammed a lot and it was pretty awesome.
Title: ...
Post by: Alkatyl on 01 Mar 2005, 00:56
If you don't like concept albums then it's something you won't agree with, becasue it's certainly the type of music you'd follow on from At the Drive In with that psychadelic twist. I didn't buy the original Mars Volta albulm because I know this time they actually have a sound instead of just playing around crazily.

But you gotta either love or hate them.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Spencer on 01 Mar 2005, 07:39
Quote from: jeph
I hated At the Drive-In, I hate the Mars Volta, and Sparta are just kind of boring.


I bet you also hate America too, don't you!

TMV s definitly an aquired taste, and not what one would call "good" in a live setting. They're sorta like Coheed and Cambria in that distinction. But I like 'em. I like 'em a lot.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Staplegun on 01 Mar 2005, 13:37
You just sound like you were having a bad night, James. But it's not for everyone anyhow.

When I saw Coheed And Cambria live, (NOT by choice, mind you), I was very miffed with them. They just talked a lot about how hairy they were.

I have to admit though, even if I hate their music, they were pretty tight as far as not screwing up a lot goes.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Psiogen on 01 Mar 2005, 23:41
I love me some good prog rock, but the only thing separating the Mars Volta from hundreds of other laughable B-list neo-prog outfits is their indie rock "pedigree".
Title: ...
Post by: Alkatyl on 02 Mar 2005, 02:19
Quote from: Spencer
Quote from: jeph
I hated At the Drive-In, I hate the Mars Volta, and Sparta are just kind of boring.


I bet you also hate America too, don't you!


I could have sworn they are from places like Cuba, Lebanon and Mexico.

Edit: I found this on an old reveiw, and it sums up my feelings exactly;

Cedric's wailing vocals are a huge trademark: the band's detractors call it tuneless wailing. For my part, I am won over by the pure passion in his voice. Have you ever heard someone's voice described with a line like "she could sing a page out of the phone book and make your cry"? Cedric's lyrics sometimes read like an abstract technical manual, but he still overpowers me with his emotion. The rest of the band doesn't slouch either and I could spend paragraphs talking about any aspect of the band's sound, but it all comes down to the fact that it's original, powerful and compelling.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: jal-vani on 02 Mar 2005, 07:58
i picked up the new album last night, and i was hoping that having a second album worth of material would make the live shows less... painful (15 minutes of whammy isn't that fun) unfortunately, that's not the case.

but, i do love frances. it's just not going to help the live shows much.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: happybirthdaygelatin on 02 Mar 2005, 12:12
Quote from: James
Yeah, you're right Staplegun, I tricked myself into being bored because I was having a bad night. In reality, I couldn't have enjoyed the self-indulgent stylings of the Volta more! SHITTT!


This I will have to remember for my description of when I saw Sonic Youth!
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Tinjessla on 02 Mar 2005, 15:07
I was a little obsessed with 'De-loused..' for a while, because for some reason, it was awesome to paint to. So, i'm very eager to get my hands on Frances The Mute.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: czar0406 on 02 Mar 2005, 15:43
im listening to the new album and now and enjoying it.  so there.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Deformagraphy on 02 Mar 2005, 16:53
It's alright.  Nothing bad, nothing good.  I've been listening all afternoon and my only conclusion so far is that it was worth buying.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: czar0406 on 02 Mar 2005, 16:54
for $6, hell yeah its worth buying.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 02 Mar 2005, 17:48
James, did... did you not expect them to noodle for ungodly lengths of time? Look at Cicatriz ESP; the album version has a two-minute segment of dripping noises.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Empty Friend on 03 Mar 2005, 00:47
Yeah I kinda like it too, definitely good music for the long walk in the brisk cold today, I concur that it was worth buying.

Also, when you listen to it straight through it's gives a sort of creepy feel when it wraps up the same way it started after a long trip. (See: Fantastic Planet with the strange xylophone-ish sounds.)

So I like it? Oh Noes!
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Empty Friend on 03 Mar 2005, 09:01
To each his own, Napoleon :-p
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: ozzi on 03 Mar 2005, 10:43
they have about one song that i can stand and i happen to like that one song alot, but thats about it. house of the roulett dares.

also, James wins all of the prizes for this thread. all of them.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: mAlice aforeThought on 03 Mar 2005, 11:47
there were prizes?  bast, why doesn't anyöne ever tell me these things?
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Revenge_Therapist on 14 May 2005, 13:24
Art rock is indeed an aquired taste, especially a band defering to both progressive and no wave. I like this record. Not in one dose mind you, but each track is rather great. The record just reaches so far it's vary hard to digest.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: asterisk. on 16 May 2005, 22:12
one thing about the mars volta is that their lyrics make absolutely no sense. at all. i don't see how they can have concept albums because they make no sense, and if you don't make sense, how can you have a concept album?

i have one of their cds -- deloused in the something or another -- and i like maybe two or three songs on it, and the rest is just kinda like ... eh.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Tartar Martyr on 16 May 2005, 22:16
Quote from: asterisk.
one thing about the mars volta is that their lyrics make absolutely no sense. at all. i don't see how they can have concept albums because they make no sense, and if you don't make sense, how can you have a concept album?

i have one of their cds -- deloused in the something or another -- and i like maybe two or three songs on it, and the rest is just kinda like ... eh.


They make a little bit of sense if you read into them... but the coolest part of them is their playing, not their lyrics.

I am someone who is impressed by the music on an album, loves overprocessed noise, and can listen to something several times without making the slightest attempt to put the lyrics together.  tMV was made for me.

If you focus on the lyrics more than the music, they will probably frustrate you and piss you off... because the lyrics don't really make sense at all.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Empty Friend on 17 May 2005, 00:20
Kinda reminds me of Sigur Ros.  Since there is no way I will ever understand the lyrics I just treat the vocals as another instrument.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: MilkmanDan on 17 May 2005, 01:15
I like Francis the mute, and I though they were ok live. A lot of noodling, yes. Too much noodling, also yes. However, when they did finally kick into gear they rocked it out. This being said, At the Drive-in were about a trillian times better. Maybe not quite a trillian, but quite alot.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Sturge on 17 May 2005, 01:44
To be honest, the mars volta are pretty shit.

Bunch of pretentious cunts.

(And im basing the shitness on the music, not on the fact that they're pretentious cunts.)

Though they are pretentious cunts.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Robbo on 17 May 2005, 04:34
Mmmmm, a bunch of "anything beyond a simple chord is evil and solos make your bits fall off" indie kids slandering this album? Right, seems I should start listening ot Mar Volta then...*orders copy of the album*
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Outshined on 17 May 2005, 10:31
The first time I heard this album, I didn't really like it.  Of course, I had pretty high expectations going into it.

I had practically listened De-Loused to death because I enjoy it so much... I agree with what other posters said about Cedric's voice being really awesome/interesting to listen to (on the album at least, I don't know anything about the live show).  I'm a firm believer that an album's interest is not just about the content of the lyrics or the chords themselves, but also about their -execution-.  And Cedric is, at the very least, extremely passionate about his lyrics and executes them with surety.  The album was also one of the most intense, emotional albums I have heard.  

Getting back to Frances the Mute, I have to say it has grown on me quite a bit. There were a bunch of people complaining about the surrealistic lyrics not making sense, but I disagree.  It is my opinion that those people are stuck-ups that were too elitist to actually bother trying to figure anything out before complaining that it was "lyrical ineptitude" on TMV's part.  The lyrics, to me, are amazing, and delightful.  They have an abstract, poetic quality that I can't get enough of.  They leave you free to imagine a scene or fill in the blanks instead of force-feeding you a cut and dry story.  And, if you consider them long enough, they actually do make quite a lot of sense, especially if you consider the bands stated concept or framework.  If you don't believe me, cut me an excerpt of lyrics from any song and I can give you an interpretation.  

In regards to the "noodling", I think it was done quite well on De-Loused.  The noodling served to break up the pacing between the more furious segments of the album and balance it out as a whole.  I even enjoyed the long segment of "dripping sounds" in the middle of Cicatriz...  for lack of a better description, it conveys the feeling of being completely silent in a dark space for a very long period of time, without being totally quiet (and thus boring).  When I hear that segment, I feel as if a great deal of time has just passed in a what felt like an instant, as if waking after a coma in a dark room.  However, I think the noodling got a little too carried away on Frances, it overtakes the denser segments and shifts the balance too far in the way of the ambient direction, making the album a little vacuous.  

Frances is really not an album I can listen to straight through.  I tend to skip around between tracks, as some segments contain extremely thought provoking lyrics or sound, while others are irritating or too far out to be accessible.  I can't recommend it as fully as De-Loused, but if you can aquire the sound, as it were, you may be able to grab some meaningful bits out of this album.  (As a side note, I've already gotten ideas for 3 new drawings based on inspiration from this album's lyrics, it's great for artist conceptualization)
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Praeserpium Machinarum on 17 May 2005, 11:46
I bought De-Loused in the Comatorium and was mystified, because I had never heard anything like it. I agree that it is too long-winded at times(fx. Cicatriz) but also has some gorgeous melodies, here I am especially thinking about Televators and Take the Veil Cerpin Taxt. Then as many times before I moved on to other stuff and iy infected my little brother, who is now a TMV junkie and even bought Frances the Mute in France before me.
I have heard Frances the Mute once, and I don't think it has the same impact as De-Loused, it wasn't bad but I probably have to listen to more to decide. All in all I like TMV, but not fanatically ;)
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: marenpoop on 17 May 2005, 16:26
i tried to listen to them but i got really sleepy and bored...lyrics make no sense, which isn't bad by itself, but when they try to claim they make epic concept albums, that kind of pisses me off.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Kai on 17 May 2005, 16:37
Ugh. The Mars Volta are horrible. I mean, I love strange music as much as anybody, but jesus christ, when you get to the point of filling songs with static noise and water droplets, It's gone too far. I'm listening to it because I want to hear MUSIC, not so I can hear feedback from your goddamn guitar playing along with some stupid horns.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: MilkmanDan on 18 May 2005, 02:01
Pfft. Aphex Twin made a song entirely out of static noises and dropping a marble in a sink. it's about 5 minutes long as well. The Mars Volta are amateurs.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Sturge on 18 May 2005, 05:02
Gotta love the twin.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Robbo on 18 May 2005, 05:37
Listening to this album as I finally have a copy. I think it's the best non-metal album of the year so far for me and it's probably gonna be one of my most loved albums as well. No small effort considering it's the first time I've ever heard any of their stuff.

Thank you all for hating on it so much, I now really like Mar Volta. (Yes, that's right, you lot slagging them off so much made me want to check them out and now they have another fan)

Oh, and how can youunderstand the vocals?  EDIT Ok, I've train my ear because I listen to Death Metal and I wouldn't be able to understand if I hadn't done that. Not that many people do or see a point to doing it, but they all seem clean and easy to hear to me.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: mahlon on 18 May 2005, 09:14
I hate when people try to justify their horrible taste in albums or a bands horrible music by saying "it's an aquired taste" It's annoying as hell. Just shut up about it. You saying it's an aquired taste doesn't make you look any better for listening to them, and it doesn't make the band respectable or better. The Mars Volta suck. Concept albums died (or should have) with "the wall." I am sick of seeing all these new bands attempting to make concept albums, like Green Day.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Robbo on 18 May 2005, 09:24
Concepts albums should have died with The Wall.....I'm sorry but what? Please tell me why Prog (and other) bands shouldn't be making concept albums anymore.

So that means everyone that's ever said "it's grown on me" or something to that means has horrible taste, sure they do. No, it doesn't stop a band from sucking of they do, but it doesn't mean they do suck either.

Like I said, it's this view of "anything beyond simple chords is evil" that drove me to listen to at all. Hey, it's got a niche set of listeners, but I'm one of them.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Praeserpium Machinarum on 18 May 2005, 09:28
well in my experience that phrase has some validity, for example I heard You are Free by Cat Power a long time ago and thought it was excruciatingly dull. Now I picked it up again and it's fantastic, a real gem of an album, odd innit?
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: mahlon on 18 May 2005, 10:15
Quote from: Robbo
Concepts albums should have died with The Wall.....I'm sorry but what? Please tell me why Prog (and other) bands shouldn't be making concept albums anymore.

So that means everyone that's ever said "it's grown on me" or something to that means has horrible taste, sure they do. No, it doesn't stop a band from sucking of they do, but it doesn't mean they do suck either.

Like I said, it's this view of "anything beyond simple chords is evil" that drove me to listen to at all. Hey, it's got a niche set of listeners, but I'm one of them.


Because no one can make good concept albums anymore. Albums can grow on anymore, but when you say to some one that they have to listen to it more than once to really like it, it's annoying as hell. I know what I like and don't like, I give bands a good 2 or 3 times listen to chance, if I don't like it, don't tell me I need to listen to it more. It's annoying. I have aquired likings for bands that I used to hate (namely, Bright Eyes), but that's only because my music taste had changed, not because I needed to listen to it more. Maybe it's different for other people, I just find it extremely annoying when people try to tell me that it's an aquired taste, or that I need to listen to it more.

Also, Please do not assume that I am one of those hipsters you so easily say have this "anything beyond simple chords is evil" opinion.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Robbo on 18 May 2005, 10:37
Still Life and Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From A Memory are some of my top albums of all time and they're concept albums. And I'd rate SFAM as one of the best albums of all time.

Hey, no one is saying you have to listen to the band, but clearly some people grew a taste for it (and Art-Rock I think it was said) or otherwise they wouldn't make comments like that. I've never said such things, but then I've been a Progressive and Extreme music fan pretty much from the start and I'll know if I like something, however complex or distorted, straight off.

But no one here told you it was aquired taste. People said they think it is one. If you'd had to sit and listen to people in real real life telling you that, fair enough.

 I'll see what your musical tastes and personality are like before I laid you a hipster, but it was  general comment about some people (mostly from real life) and as to why I listend to the album in the first place.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: hippiejonny on 18 May 2005, 11:42
i feel like the only reason anyone cares about the mars volta is because they're two latino guys playing rock.  granted, it's decent music, but it's nowhere near as progressive as they would have you believe.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: KharBevNor on 18 May 2005, 12:06
Quote from: mahlon

Because no one can make good concept albums anymore.


Apart from like, Star One, Ayreon (Try 'The Human Equation'. It is un-unlikeable), Opeth, Dream Theatre, Borknagar, Sigh, ...And Oceans, Bal-Sagoth, GraveDigger, Therion, Bathory (Blood on Ice is the finest musical story ever told. Ever.) not to mention all the old-school prog and space bands like Yes and Hawkwind...

Man, I do LOVE concept albums.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: rudeboy on 18 May 2005, 13:40
The Mars Volta is a horrible band. They're terrible. Maybe I went into the album prepared to hate it, but the songs really really really do NOTHING for me. Every instrumental is incredibly uninspired and retarded. I don't need to go deaf from hearing some asswipe playing too close to his amp. Their lyrics make no sense, and I don't need that bullcrap metaphorics, because even translating it isn't worth it. Oh yes yes, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but anyone that has been around and listens to.. you know.. MUSIC.

Oh and one thing, I don't get why people would even consider comparing At the Drive-In and The Mars Volta, their barely in the same genre, just a band member being the same.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Kai on 18 May 2005, 18:14
Alright. So I went ahead and downloaded Frances The Mute (I've only heard whatever the fuck their first album was, and thought it was horrible.) Who knows, maybe they don't annoy me as much.

After about the first listen here, I'm on the "Meh" Status. It's not hard to understand what they're saying, and the music isn't that weird. It's different, but I've heard much more avant-garde and out there stuff. Overall, I'm actually mostly enjoying it; not to a point where I'd purchase it, but it's better than the horrendous original record.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: marenpoop on 18 May 2005, 20:48
Quote from: Robbo

Oh, and how can youunderstand the vocals?  EDIT Ok, I've train my ear because I listen to Death Metal and I wouldn't be able to understand if I hadn't done that. Not that many people do or see a point to doing it, but they all seem clean and easy to hear to me.


It's not a matter of understanding the VOCALS, it's understanding the lyrics. They're pure wankery.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: marenpoop on 18 May 2005, 20:50
Thinking good concept albums are not being made anymore is not a reason to stop trying. That's like saying in the 90s, when american cars were absolutely horrible, that they should have stopped making them.

and The Wall was overrated.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 18 May 2005, 22:05
Where's the whole "people's taste may vary" option?

Look, Mars Volta are decent musicians.  The drummer is very talented, as is the keyboardist, and the bass and guitar aren't shabby either.  Whether or not you think they're wankers doesn't really change the fact that they're good.

So you don't like prog.  Fine.  Understandable.  Most people prefer songs under 5 minutes as opposed to songs with 5 minutes of crickets.  Whatever floats your boat.  Some of us do like the crickets.  That's not to say that I don't like short simple music, too.  Hell, one of my favorite bands are The Black Keys, and their stuff is as simple and quick as anything (except maybe Ramones songs).  That doesn't mean I can't enjoy wankery.  It's really foolish to say "Oh,  I'm going to limit myself to a certain genre because that's my image" (I'm not saying everyone here is doing that, but it's something I've seen around my town).  If you don't like the style Mars Volta play, fine.  Cool.  If you don't like their albums, fine.  Cool.  I don't like Decemberists (oh crap,  I just blasphemed) but I don't claim they suck....they're just not my style.  Similarly, The Mars Volta aren't the worst band in history...they're just not your style.  Big deal.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 18 May 2005, 22:19
Yeah, I like the Minutemen about as much as I like TMV.

WARNING: TASTES MAY DIFFER.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Tartar Martyr on 19 May 2005, 01:33
Tastes May Differ = True

Proclaiming that the Mars Volta are a bunch of no talent wankers = Retarded

You can dislike their music for any reason you wish, but denying the talent in the band is just ignorant.  Drums, Bass and Guitar players in tMV can play circles around their counterparts in any other current popular rock group.  I would include keyboards, but keyboard players are a dying breed.

For examples of this, listen to Drunkship of Lanterns on De-Loused.  The guitar solo, rhythm holds while guitar pulls against it, then the guitar turns around and plays with it and it feels like the song has taken off but the tempo is the same.  More examples?  Any of the sick blues lines Omar lays down on Frances the Mute.

Yeah, you can say they are just a deriviative of early King Crimson and Yes.  But there is nothing else like them, at the level they are doing it, being produced today.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Empty Friend on 19 May 2005, 15:17
Quote from: Empty Friend
To each his own, Napoleon :-p


I'm quoting myself cause I said all of this 2 months ago.  So yeah, if they're not your style, fine.  Saying they suck is like saying Eric Clapton doesn't know how to play a guitar.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Outshined on 19 May 2005, 19:49
Saying that it is pointless for musicians to continue writing concept albums is like saying novelists should just give up writing fiction.  That's just an ignorant thing to say.  A concept album, done well, is a perfectly valid approach to writing and creating music.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: rudeboy on 19 May 2005, 20:33
Saying they are talented is like saying Good Charlotte isn't assholes for using that one Specials line. I could easily take my friend's guitar, and make it out of tune purposely, play it upside down, and near his amp and sound like a total asshole. It doesn't mean that I have talent. I have nothing against long songs, heck, one of my favorite bands is streetlight manifesto, and their songs are pretty long, and stretches out even longer, live.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 19 May 2005, 20:43
Quote from: rudeboy
Saying they are talented is like saying Good Charlotte isn't assholes for using that one Specials line. I could easily take my friend's guitar, and make it out of tune purposely, play it upside down, and near his amp and sound like a total asshole. It doesn't mean that I have talent. I have nothing against long songs, heck, one of my favorite bands is streetlight manifesto, and their songs are pretty long, and stretches out even longer, live.


Do you even play a musical instrument?  Some of their stuff is pretty damned complex, a good example being the bassline in Eunoch Provocateur (from their EP), and most of the drumming.

Look.  You don't have to like them.  Or their style.  You can think their brand of psychadelia prog is a cop out and wankery and everything else, but that does not mean they're not good musicians.

I can't stand Rush.  I think their songs are unimaginative and cliche, and not particularly interesting musically.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that they're damned talented musicians.  The same goes for Mars Volta.  You don't need to like them to acknowledge that they're decent musicians and that other people with different tastes can legitimately enjoy their music.  It's not like I'm asking you to say that Blink 182 are the best punk band ever, or something equally ridiculous.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Praeserpium Machinarum on 20 May 2005, 03:43
Quote
It's not like I'm asking you to say that Blink 182 are the best punk band ever, or something equally ridiculous.


they aren't?

...bloody hell...
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: rudeboy on 20 May 2005, 03:48
Quote from: sp2
Do you even play a musical instrument?

I play saxophone, and I'm learning bass.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: mahlon on 20 May 2005, 09:13
Quote from: marenpoop
Thinking good concept albums are not being made anymore is not a reason to stop trying. That's like saying in the 90s, when american cars were absolutely horrible, that they should have stopped making them.

and The Wall was overrated.


Except... Cars are pretty much something we need to live (isn't that pathetic?) I haven't heard a good concept album in years. Maybe I just hate the idea of concept albums period, or maybe I just hate the Mars Volta and their dumbass looking Afros, or any band with Afros (aside from the guy in TV on the Radio). Personally, I think the Mars Volta kind of rips off Coheed and Camrbia, especially with this whole concept album shit.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 20 May 2005, 09:30
Quote from: mahlon
Personally, I think the Mars Volta kind of rips off Coheed and Camrbia, especially with this whole concept album shit.


If anything, it's the opposite.  The Volta guys have been doing weird experimental shit for years.  Check out De Facto, which was some experimental electro-dub they messed around with.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 20 May 2005, 09:36
Quote from: rudeboy
Quote from: sp2
Do you even play a musical instrument?

I play saxophone, and I'm learning bass.


So you don't play drums or guitar or keyboard and don't have much experience on the bass.  Well, as someone who has several years of experience on the bass, and who plays with folks who've been playing guitar for over a decade, and decently talented drummers, I can tell you that the stuff Volta does is not easy introductory level stuff.  They have some amazing basslines (mostly on their earlier stuff, given), they have some technical guitar riffs, and they have some very very very technical drum beats.  They are much more technical than most of the bands you probably listen to and think are hot shit on a stick.

You're learning the bass, so I suggest finding their song "Eunoch Provocateur" and sitting down with it and learning the bassline.  Come back to me when you're finished and tell me they're still shitty musicians.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: marenpoop on 20 May 2005, 11:08
The talent is there, but they have used it for evil. EVIL I SAY. they've gone and made utterly pretencious songs and attempted to pass it off as some work of concept genius about some kid they knew who looked like frankenstein.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: mAlice aforeThought on 20 May 2005, 11:13
but utterly pretentious songs are the best kind!

(yes, i'm quite fond ov the mars volta.  but i do wish someöne would explain to me exactly where the hell the song 'frances the mute' is to be found.  outside ov overpriced import vinyl, i mean.)
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Outshined on 20 May 2005, 14:03
Quote from: marenpoop
The talent is there, but they have used it for evil. EVIL I SAY. they've gone and made utterly pretencious songs and attempted to pass it off as some work of concept genius about some kid they knew who looked like frankenstein.


Pfft... you act like you have never heard a pretentious band before.  Some of these indie acts are the most pretentious shmucks I've ever heard and you practically worship them for it.  It's practically a requirement to be in the music industry anyway.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Marslo on 20 May 2005, 23:16
Here we have an expresion.

''I hope that they wont try to pull off a Frances the Mute.''

Meaning 10 minutes of live static in the name of art.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 20 May 2005, 23:30
Quote from: Marslo
Meaning 10 minutes of live static in the name of art.


Pink Floyd basically did some stuff just like that in the song "Echoes" on Meddle.  No one really calls them "no talent wankers."

It's just "hip" to hate the Mars Volta.  Okay, cool, whatever.  Just be aware of WHY you do what you do.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 20 May 2005, 23:43
Nobody calls Pink Floyd wankers? Clearly someone hasn't been reading Your Band Sucks on Something Awful.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: marenpoop on 21 May 2005, 01:08
everyone including your mom is a pretencious wanker!
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: rudeboy on 21 May 2005, 07:21
The really is no right or wrong when it comes to music taste. Some people just don't think static feedback is music. I am one of them. And I haven't found any tabs for that song, . . . like I'd want to play that. It just sounds like contant hammering on one note.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 21 May 2005, 09:46
Quote from: rudeboy
And I haven't found any tabs for that song, . . . like I'd want to play that. It just sounds like contant hammering on one note.


A) Tabs are for pussies and no-talent wankers.
B) It you think it's constant hammering on one note, you clearly can't pick a bassline out of your ass.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: zekterellium on 21 May 2005, 10:12
the mars volta are too boring for me to take them seriously. sure, they have their odd moments, but their experimental for the sake of being experimental, and not from a genuine desire to create that kind of music.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: MetaPop on 21 May 2005, 12:13
So naturally, what we should do is learn our lessons from The Mars Volta. We should take what we like, leave what we dont, be inspired, disgraced, enlightened, put off, turned upside down, inside out and off entirely and use them as we would any other band; influence for further, better music. Everything is valid in some small way, whether it teaches us what to do or what not to do; The Mars Volta are a good object lesson in what really flies as far as experimentalism and skill goes. Now we build on it.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: ASturge on 21 May 2005, 12:17
Olivia Tremor Control are pretty experimentallyishyness at times.

Awesome band.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: kikanjuuneko on 21 May 2005, 12:49
Quote from: mAlice aforeThought
(yes, i'm quite fond of the mars volta.  but i do wish someöne would explain to me exactly where the hell the song 'frances the mute' is to be found.  outside of overpriced import vinyl, i mean.)

Because no one else has: it's a b-side for the single for 'The Widow'.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 21 May 2005, 14:00
Quote from: sp2
A) Tabs are for pussies and no-talent wankers.

...and for people who listen to indie music that's so richly produced or interwoven, such as Interpol, that it becomes at times impossible to discern what notes are being played by which guitar.

I've been playing guitar for three years and I still use tabs. I use them rarely, but I still use 'em.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 21 May 2005, 17:16
Quote from: Johnny C
...and for people who listen to indie music that's so richly produced or interwoven, such as Interpol, that it becomes at times impossible to discern what notes are being played by which guitar.


I'm not going to comment on this.  It'd be way way way too easy.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: KharBevNor on 21 May 2005, 17:46
Quote from: sp2

A) Tabs are for pussies and no-talent wankers.


Oh man, that really drips some serious snobbery.

Tabs are just a shorthand version of sheet music without a proper time notation. Next thing, sheet music is for posers. And frets? I mean, what the fuck is up with that? Anyone with an ounce of talent knows inately exactly where he need to put his fingers.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 21 May 2005, 18:26
Yeah, but frets make proper harmonics easier.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: blindsuperhero on 21 May 2005, 18:30
Eh?
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Johnny C on 21 May 2005, 18:34
For harmonic tuning purposes, you know.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Empty Friend on 21 May 2005, 19:09
Quote from: sp2
A) Tabs are for pussies and no-talent wankers.


I cry massive amounts of douchebaggery.   A Tab that tells which scale structure a solo or whatever single note whatnot is in is much more effective than sheet music.  Same with certain types of chord structures... seeing as how there are 14 places to play an E on a 24 fret guitar. Ass.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 21 May 2005, 19:34
My point is this.  Most music is simplistic enought that you can figure out the notes pretty much on your own.  This goes for pretty much ALL rock music.  It's a shortcut.  Frankly, I don't even think sheet music is really necessary when trying to figure out most songs.  It's one thing if you're playing classical music with 5 movements that lasts half an hour a piece.  But a 3 or 4 riff song?  Please.

I told rudeboy that before he sits there and claims music is easy without having played it, that he should go, pick up his bass, and try one of the riffs.  The riffs in Eunoch Provocateur are very clear and easy to isolate from the rest of the song.  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out.  You don't even need perfect pitch.  You need about half an hour and about as much talent as your average chimp (and I'll point out that more than half an hour has been wasted by folks like rudeboy talking about things they don't know jack about).  Playing that part is more difficult.

You don't really learn music by picking up tabs, at least, that's not how I've always learned it.  You learn it by playing along and picking it up bit by bit.  Tabs are a way of saying "I don't really care enough to actually learn how the song is crafted, I just want to play it."  You realize exactly how much tabs are for pussies and wankers when you see someone looking for tabs for solos instead of just soloing themselves.  Additionally, being unable to find tabs for a song is not an excuse to not play a song.

Frets are another story, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for someone who plays a fretless, because that does take skill.  This also includes instruments like trombone and various orchestral string instruments.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Conatonc on 21 May 2005, 22:29
Quote
The really is no right or wrong when it comes to music taste. Some people just don't think static feedback is music. I am one of them.


The fact that you seem to think that this is all that The Mars Volta is doing shows that you have written the band off without bothering to really listen to them.

It's been a few months since Frances came out, and I've decided that there's enough cool music on the album to make up for the tiresome stretches of electronic noises and birds chirping. There's about 50 minutes of good music here- unfortunately the album is 75 minutes long. Still, there's something to like in every song, especially Cygnus and L'Via L'Vaquez.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Outshined on 21 May 2005, 23:13
I rather like "Miranda that Ghost Just Isn't Holy Anymore" myself.  Once you get past the initial stretch of eerie, moaning ghost sounds, there is actually some sincere and interesting poetry to be found.  ...And then they rock out.

I find myself quoting the album all the time... extracting particular lines for recycling in another form as writing or art.

I think TMV is really still finding it's legs... this album went perhaps too far in the experimental direction, and I think by the next album they will have established a nice balance and make something really worthwhile.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: sp2 on 22 May 2005, 00:12
Quote from: Outshined
this album went perhaps too far in the experimental direction, and I think by the next album they will have established a nice balance and make something really worthwhile.


It sounds to me that they'd disagree.  It sounds like they were more or less glad that they put a lot of people off.  Personally, I think this album really has a lot of great parts to it, and while it may not be casually listenable, it's still a damned good album.  It's all a matter of personal opinion whether or not they like something, but I severely doubt Volta are going back to the style of ATDI.  Their stuff as TMV has gotten more experimental, and Omar Rodriguez's solo stuff was hella messed up (given, I enjoyed it, but I'm probably in the minority).
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: ASturge on 22 May 2005, 01:39
I've been playing guitar for about 4 years now, and i still occasionally use tabs.

In what way am I a pussy- wanker?
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: KharBevNor on 22 May 2005, 01:47
Quote from: sp2
My point is this.  Most music is simplistic enought that you can figure out the notes pretty much on your own.  This goes for pretty much ALL rock music.  It's a shortcut.  Frankly, I don't even think sheet music is really necessary when trying to figure out most songs.  It's one thing if you're playing classical music with 5 movements that lasts half an hour a piece.  But a 3 or 4 riff song?  Please.


I can get the odd thing by ear now, but tabs are still a huge help.  You have to have been playing for quite some time to figure out anything, as you have to know pretty much every note, basic chord (majors, minors, sevenths and fifths) and scale as an instinctual response. Plus, it does depend on what music you listen to. Looking at my favourite bands, Therion have three guitarists (not to mention the bassist, a couple of balalaika players and a whole bloody orchestra), Skyclad flourish on doing trade-off solos between guitar and fiddle, and so on. Even the simplest music I listen to regularly, black metal, can actually be pretty hard to work out by ear because of the distortion and the tremolo picking techniques.

For all your elitism, I would probably have given up guitar already without tabs, as they allowed me to be able to hammer out a few familiar riffs and tunes within weeks of starting out, without which I would have almost certainly got piss bored of the chord shapes, scales, progressions and 12 bar blues that were all the earliest lessons in my guitar book consisted of.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: blindsuperhero on 22 May 2005, 03:24
Quote from: Johnny C
For harmonic tuning purposes, you know.


But... when you play harmonics, you don't use the frets
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: rudeboy on 22 May 2005, 06:58
Quote from: Conatonc
The fact that you seem to think that this is all that The Mars Volta is doing shows that you have written the band off without bothering to really listen to them.


that my friend is a complete bullshit speculation. i am forced to listen to it everytime i ride in the car with my friend jess. if anything that's all she plays.

edit: and if it's so easy to pick out the bass then let's see you fucking tab it out, i'm one to think tabs are a last resort, but to you it's just an asshat that doesn't know shit about who you're talking about but yet continues to talk like you know what process i took . . . douscheclown
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Kai on 22 May 2005, 13:55
Hey, no need to be calling each other Douchebags or assclowns. Flame Wars aren't cool.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: KharBevNor on 22 May 2005, 14:00
^ Quiet, Doucheclown Assbag!
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Praeserpium Machinarum on 22 May 2005, 14:26
insulting just isn't what it used to be... but hell I will join in; you are all dendrofile bonobos ;)
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Outshined on 22 May 2005, 15:21
Quote from: Praeserpium Machinarum
insulting just isn't what it used to be... but hell I will join in; you are all dendrofile bonobos ;)


Isn't that some guy that, er, -likes- plants?
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: BusterKeaton on 26 May 2005, 14:11
The mars volta in general

Pro's
Dude some of these guys were in ATDI!!!!
They sing in latin and spanish!
Tribal/bossa/capo percussion!
A falsetto to make the vienna boys uneasy!
The seem to be writing there songs as classical compositions now!
Excessive stage antics!!(using the drum kit as gymnastic equipment)

Con's
They sing in latin and spanish
Tribal/bossa/capo percussion
A falsetto to make the vienna boys uneasy
The seem to be writing there songs as classical compositions now
Excessive stage antics (using the drum kit as gymnastic equipment)

In closing, Its all how you look at it
Personally i liked Deloused in the comatorium more
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: moonman9j9 on 26 May 2005, 17:36
I absolutely LOVE Frances the Mute.  


Hi, by the way.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Jeridus on 26 May 2005, 19:04
Quote from: Outshined
I rather like "Miranda that Ghost Just Isn't Holy Anymore" myself.


Agreed... I actually love best the short stretch of trumpet... it's awesomely reminiscent of Ennio Morricone's music from old westerns... I like L'Via more... cause it's super leet, esp. the quieter, mellower intervals...

and, just to stir shit up...

Quote from: rudeboy
Saying they are talented is like saying Good Charlotte isn't assholes for using that one Specials line. I could easily take my friend's guitar, and make it out of tune purposely, play it upside down, and near his amp and sound like a total asshole. It doesn't mean that I have talent. I have nothing against long songs, heck, one of my favorite bands is streetlight manifesto, and their songs are pretty long, and stretches out even longer, live.


Okay, quite ridiculous that statement is. You may not think that what they're doing is paricularioly complex, but they remain nevertheless incredibly talented. You may believe that they can't play worth shit, and fine, you're entitled to an opinion. But using the static (that they employ to eliminate the breaks between tracks so that the story flows more smoothly) as a grossly generalized microcosm of their skill really doesn't do them justice as a whole. Have you heard Deloused at all? Listen to Inertiatic ESP, Tira Me A Las Aranas, and This Apparatus Must Be Unearthed and tell me that you still, in all honesty, believe them to be talentless hacks... hell, even listen to L'Via L'Viaquez, or about 45 seconds into Cygnus, on Frances The Mute... cause that is some heavy shit they lay down. You don't like the white noise, fine... but don't bash the whole band and their work just because of that.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Kai on 26 May 2005, 19:30
I personally wouldn't think that they're not talented musicians. They're pretty good musicians, just the lack of any tune and the pretentiousness kinda drove me off. Which is weird. I listen to Beefheart for chrissakes.
Title: Frances The Mute
Post by: Jeridus on 29 May 2005, 15:26
And see that, that is a good reason to be put off by them... finding them pretentious is an educated reason for dislike... merely saying that excellent musicians are untalented isn't