THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)
Fun Stuff => BAND => Topic started by: 24_hour_revenge_therapy on 15 Apr 2005, 22:05
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sooo, i noticed in a thread earlier to this (musicians you have an irrational hatred for) that alot of you REALLY didn't like straightedge, or straightedge kids, or straightedge bands. you seemed to have a LOT of misconceptions, probably due to having to deal with BAD BAD sxe kids. weeeelll, heres your chance to learn about it from someone who knows. i'm 23 years old, i'm straightedge and have been for five years now, i am in a crew (x24x out of pheonix, az), i'm into hardcore, i'm vegan, and i don't hate anyone, really. i can understand people really not knowing about it, especially if the only sxe kids they've met are fifteen and not really into the life. so, ask me questions. i'll answer them for you, as best i can. i'm not the sxe ambassador or anything, i'm just trying to help people understand me and my friends a little better.
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So what you are saying is you're a moron?
Edit:Sorry that was rude, but really I couldn't help it.
My question is...why don't you eat choclate, or fucking drink pop!
Why can't you be like how straight edge was started out! You know instead of taking it to the fucking extreme and being fucking idiots about it.
If you don't know how straight edge used to be, it used to be just staying away from hardcore drugs. They'd still drink, and get down.
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So what you are saying is you're a moron?
I respect and admire you. *hands you a flame retardent suit and a small book about tolerance*
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So what you are saying is you're a moron?
Edit:Sorry that was rude, but really I couldn't help it.
My question is...why don't you eat choclate, or fucking drink pop!
Why can't you be like how straight edge was started out! You know instead of taking it to the fucking extreme and being fucking idiots about it.
If you don't know how straight edge used to be, it used to be just staying away from hardcore drugs. They'd still drink, and get down.
ok, well, first off, i don't drink pop because i'm allergic to corn syrup. my friends drink pop though, and i LOOOVE coffee. as for chocolate, i was actually eating semi-sweet (vegan) chocolate chips straight from the bag this afternoon. so, basically, that makes no sense. and, i would like to point out that i'm being pretty reasonable, and not attacking or detracting from anyone, so please keep the insults out of this.
secondly, well, my personal reason...is personal. i don't drink. i don't smoke/do drugs. i don't sleep with any girl i meet. that's straightedge. and how it "used to be" doesn't matter, because that's how it is now.
ok, next question?
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If you don't know how straight edge used to be, it used to be just staying away from hardcore drugs. They'd still drink, and get down.
No, being straight edge has always been about abstaining from recreational drugs. There were some people in early bands who were/said they were (however you want to cut it) edge and didn't, but the idea was always abstinance really for those who made it into a movement/lifestyle (in other words, not Ian Mackaye).
A question then... what the hell does a crew do, and where did you shop for it?
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I wasn't trying to offend you that was a joke. Which I didn't care to put a Just Kidding into.
And, thats odd. Because according to the "COURAGE CREW" (aka royal fucktards) you're not straight edge, if you have caffeine in your system. Nothing that alters your mind.
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haha. i love good clean fun. as for MY crew, we just basically keep a watch on our scene. we try to keep bad people out, and we protect any hardcore kid that needs it. ANY hardcore kid, sxe or not. that's what we try to do. we don't always succeed, and we do have our detractors, but i think in the end, we do a lot of good. meh, i'm kinda sentimental.
If you don't know how straight edge used to be, it used to be just staying away from hardcore drugs. They'd still drink, and get down.
No, being straight edge has always been about abstaining from recreational drugs. There were some people in early bands who were/said they were (however you want to cut it) edge and didn't, but the idea was always abstinance really for those who made it into a movement/lifestyle (in other words, not Ian Mackaye).
A question then... what the hell does a crew do, and where did you shop for it?
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So how do you define a 'bad' person then?
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You guys should meet the courage crew, they do just the opposite.
They give the scene round here a bad name.
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I wasn't trying to offend you that was a joke. Which I didn't care to put a Just Kidding into.
And, thats odd. Because according to the "COURAGE CREW" (aka royal fucktards) you're not straight edge, if you have caffeine in your system. Nothing that alters your mind.
ok, ok, sorry. look, you seem to have a LOT of anger towards sxe kids. did something happen to you? it sounds like you had a run in with some of them that didn't really end well.
as for courage crew, well, that's their definition. they're a little more hardline. but it's just ONE definition of sxe. the main tenants of no drinking, no smoking/drugs, and no promiscous sex are the important ones. i have friends that don't ingest caffeine or take over the counter drugs. and i respect that decision, just as they respect my decision to continue drinking caffeine and taking tylenol. it's really all about choice.
and i would like to point out that i have a few friends in courage crew. theyre nice guys. we disagree on a lot of points, but we respect each other. cool, huh?:)
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You guys should meet the courage crew, they do just the opposite.
They give the scene round here a bad name.
where are you from?
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I don't even know what you people are talking about, but for some reason, I feel the need to punch a Mormon now.
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So how do you define a 'bad' person then?
anyone who starts a fight, or beats someone up, for no reason. anyone who tries to make the scene a hostile place for other people. it's kind of subjective, and we do take it on a case by case basis. a good example would be if we saw a couple of kids square off one on one, we don't get involved. but if we see five kids trying to jump one kid, we jump in and put a stop to it as quickly as possible.
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I don't even know what you people are talking about, but for some reason, I feel the need to punch a Mormon now.
haha. yeah. salt lake city is the beginning of most of our problems. a lot of the violence, and hardline attitude comes from that city. i have a few friends from there, but for the most part, slc kids really piss me off. theyre very close minded.
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Okay, so you stop beatings happening. But 'it's kind of subjective, and we do take it on a case by case basis'? No offence, but who made you guys the official scene police? And why not stop a fight if only two people are involved? It's still violence.
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You guys should meet the courage crew, they do just the opposite.
They give the scene round here a bad name.
where are you from?
Michigan...
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Okay, so you stop beatings happening. But 'it's kind of subjective, and we do take it on a case by case basis'? No offence, but who made you guys the official scene police? And why not stop a fight if only two people are involved? It's still violence.
well, i'm not sure how it is where you are, but unfortuanetly, the scene in pheonix is kinda crappy right now. lots of shitty venues, with shady owners, who REFUSE to hire security. who makes us the scene police? well, we do, because someone has to. as for stopping a one on one fight, well, we make them go outside and deal with it. but it's not really our problem. if two idiots want to pound each other senseless in the parking lot, let them. i'm gonna listen to the band.
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You guys should meet the courage crew, they do just the opposite.
They give the scene round here a bad name.
where are you from?
Michigan...
well, i grew up in cincinnati, the base of their power. and, yeah, they used to SUCK. i'm not sure what it's like in michigan, but in cincinnati, they've changed. a LOT. they've kicked out a lot of the kids that started unnecassary violence, and pulled the rest in on a tight reign. yeah, they've got a long way to go to fix things, but theyre trying.
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I don't even know what you people are talking about, but for some reason, I feel the need to punch a Mormon now.
I get that all the time.
Straight edge is, y'know, respectable and all. But I'm kinda glad it hasn't really spread to riound where I live. I don't mind your original 'Don't Smoke, Don't Drink, Don't Fuck' crowd (though I only tick one X through choice, I don't smoke and never will), that's fine. Veganism I'm less keen on, especially militant veganism of the type put about by Earth Crisis and so forth (I'm a former Hunt Sab, but I firmly believe that even talking about placing the life of an animal over the life of a human is deeply, deeply wrong. It's un-natural, if nothing else) Some of the stuff I've heard about the SLC scene scares me fucking shitless.
Finally, I don't like straight-edge kids (and I think you'll agree there are quite a few) who take themselves way too seriously. For example: the kind of people who made Hot Topic withdraw one of the few decent shirts they ever printed "So You're Straight-edge? I'll drink to that!" or the ones who would choose to assume an air of superiority over me or indeed anyone who drinks, smokes, has promiscous sex etc. I can understand where you're coming from of course, but knock it off: I've made my choices, you've made yours, and I'm not stupid. I've never drunk so much I was sick, I've never done drugs, and on the rare instanced I do get lucky I always use protection. I'm not a weak person, thanks very much.
So, anyway, hi.
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Okay, so you stop beatings happening. But 'it's kind of subjective, and we do take it on a case by case basis'? No offence, but who made you guys the official scene police? And why not stop a fight if only two people are involved? It's still violence.
well, i'm not sure how it is where you are, but unfortuanetly, the scene in pheonix is kinda crappy right now. lots of shitty venues, with shady owners, who REFUSE to hire security. who makes us the scene police? well, we do, because someone has to. as for stopping a one on one fight, well, we make them go outside and deal with it. but it's not really our problem. if two idiots want to pound each other senseless in the parking lot, let them. i'm gonna listen to the band.
To quote those much-missed hardcore legends Fig 4.0: "Bouncers... Die!" They won't hire security? That's a good thing! It's a punk gig, not having bouncers is what you should want to happen! Your scene might be shitty, but that's no need to bring in hired muscle. The best thing to do is just make it a place where knucklehead macho types aren't welcome.
Where I am is great. Well at least it is for proper, DIY hardcore stuff. I think you get trouble at the big gigs when shit like Throwdown etc play, but that has nothing to do with my scene so I couldn't care less if some meatheads windmill each other. The few occasions something does happen it's normally dealt with by the crowd in a reasonably mature manner, without the need for some little group in particular to police things.
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I get that all the time.
Straight edge is, y'know, respectable and all. But I'm kinda glad it hasn't really spread to riound where I live. I don't mind your original 'Don't Smoke, Don't Drink, Don't Fuck' crowd (though I only tick one X through choice, I don't smoke and never will), that's fine. Veganism I'm less keen on, especially militant veganism of the type put about by Earth Crisis and so forth (I'm a former Hunt Sab, but I firmly believe that even talking about placing the life of an animal over the life of a human is deeply, deeply wrong. It's un-natural, if nothing else) Some of the stuff I've heard about the SLC scene scares me fucking shitless.
Finally, I don't like straight-edge kids (and I think you'll agree there are quite a few) who take themselves way too seriously. For example: the kind of people who made Hot Topic withdraw one of the few decent shirts they ever printed "So You're Straight-edge? I'll drink to that!" or the ones who would choose to assume an air of superiority over me or indeed anyone who drinks, smokes, has promiscous sex etc. I can understand where you're coming from of course, but knock it off: I've made my choices, you've made yours, and I'm not stupid. I've never drunk so much I was sick, I've never done drugs, and on the rare instanced I do get lucky I always use protection. I'm not a weak person, thanks very much.
So, anyway, hi.
hey, that's cool. like you said, it's all about choices. you've made yours, and you seem to be able to live a perfectly healthy life. good for you.
as for veganism, well, that's something i LOVE to talk about. but not here. if you wanna e-mail me, i'd be more than happy to have a nice long rant about animal rights with you.
and yeah, there are a LOT of sxe kids (and i do mean kids. theyre usually younger than 20) who don't have ANY sense of humor about themselves. i remember that shirt. i laughed at it, and shook my head. it was dumb. but whatever. the kids that got it yanked probably broke edge that same year. i have a rule: the harder you push it, the faster you fall.
oh, and hi back. :)
p.s. the slc scene isn't that scary. i've met guys that were a LOT tougher than those kids. and they didn't need to beat people up to prove it.
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Okay, so you stop beatings happening. But 'it's kind of subjective, and we do take it on a case by case basis'? No offence, but who made you guys the official scene police? And why not stop a fight if only two people are involved? It's still violence.
well, i'm not sure how it is where you are, but unfortuanetly, the scene in pheonix is kinda crappy right now. lots of shitty venues, with shady owners, who REFUSE to hire security. who makes us the scene police? well, we do, because someone has to. as for stopping a one on one fight, well, we make them go outside and deal with it. but it's not really our problem. if two idiots want to pound each other senseless in the parking lot, let them. i'm gonna listen to the band.
To quote those much-missed hardcore legends Fig 4.0: "Bouncers... Die!" They won't hire security? That's a good thing! It's a punk gig, not having bouncers is what you should want to happen! Your scene might be shitty, but that's no need to bring in hired muscle. The best thing to do is just make it a place where knucklehead macho types aren't welcome.
Where I am is great. Well at least it is for proper, DIY hardcore stuff. I think you get trouble at the big gigs when shit like Throwdown etc play, but that has nothing to do with my scene so I couldn't care less if some meatheads windmill each other. The few occasions something does happen it's normally dealt with by the crowd in a reasonably mature manner, without the need for some little group in particular to police things.
lord, i LOVE figure four.
and it's cool that your scene works that well. ours works pretty well, just in a different way. we try to make it as safe as possible, and we don't walk around, acting tough. when shit happens, we just take care of it, and everyone continues having a good time. when i said the scene was shitty, i really meant that it's the venues. those guys have NO respect for us. it kinda sucks.
i should also point out that the BEST venue in town (and i do mean a GREAT one), the modified, has never, ever hired security. there just aren't fights there. it's a rule. it's a great venue, with cool people, and loads of respect. so, we do know how to do it that way, too. ;)
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Sorry, I just can't resist.
I really wan't to know what your reason for Veganism is.
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No, Fig. 4.0 are a different band to Figure Four. The latter are American and still going (I think), the former were from the UK and are sadly defunct.
Have you tried squatting venues, or seeing if you can set your own legal one up?
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that's actually probably going to be the way things are gonna go soon. were really getting sick and tired of shitty venue owners ripping off bands and the few respectable promoters out there. there's been talk of people buying a house for shows, and other things. my guess is that it'll happen in the next year or two, at the most.
edit: my apologies. didn't mean to confuse the bands. i'm gonna go check out fig. 4.0. sounds interesting.
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Sorry, I just can't resist.
I really wan't to know what your reason for Veganism is.
ha, it's cool. but like i said, i don't wanna talk about it here. if you wanna e-mail me about it, i'd be more than happy to talk to you about it then. my email is [email protected] and no, i'm not really from boston. it's a REALLY stupid inside joke with my friends. it will not die. it is the zombie of inside jokes.
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Well it is a pretty easy confusion. They gave themselves the funny spelling after they heard about the US band and couldn't be bothered to try and find a new name again.
House gigs are great, a guy I know's going to be putting Smackdown on here soon in his basement which should be fun. There are a few decent proper venues here too though, some which started with very humble beginnings so if you get something off the ground who knows where it'll end up.
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oh yeah. some of the best shows i've ever been too have been house shows. theres just a closeness and a community feeling you can't get anywhere else.
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AloneInFeburary
heres a hint its my AIM name.
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faileddiety.
there, now you won't be shocked and/or amazed when i try to talk to ya.
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Straightedge is fucking retarded.
YAY I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE I FOLLOW AN ABRITRARILY DETERMINED LIFESTYLE NOW LET ME BLATHER ON ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AT A TIME
Seriously. You don't drink or smoke or whatever? Cool, good for you. But the minute you come up with a catchphrase for your lifestyle I begin to lose respect.
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well, i suppose theres some truth to that. in the end, you could say that what i do, not how i describe it is the important part. i agree with that. i don't call myself straightedge because i want to add a catchphrase. i do it simply to label myself. to let others know who i am. to add another phrase to the long list that describes who i am. i'm also irish. i'm jewish. i'm american and canadian. i like pie. i like morrisey, and the cure, and earthcrisis, and lots and lots and lots of other bands. my favorite flavor of ice cream is strawberry. i'm a humanist. my favorite authors are kurt vonnegut, and john steinbeck. my favorite comic book hero is superman. my favorite artist is jim mahfood. i like to get tattooed. i write. i like to take walks at three in the morning when the rest of the city is asleep. one time, on one of those walks, some guy thought i was a male prostitute, and tried to buy me. oh, and i'm straightedge. it's who i am, and at the same time, just a part of who i am.
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I think we can all agree on one thing: Slapshot is awesome, even if Choke is an asshole.
I'm not straight-edge, but I'm pretty surprised to see all the vitriol thrown in their direction. I have straight-edge friends, and they've never given me shit for lighting a cigarette or drinking a beer, but I guess that's just my experience. Jeez, around here, skinheads don't even get that much shit. Well, not from people who know the deal, anyway.
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When I say the things I hear about SLC scare me shitless, I mean the stories one hears of someone who's passing through and makes the mistake of asking an sxe kid for a light and ends up getting beaten with tire chains. People have died in sxe related incidents around that way.
Why the unwillingness to discuss veganism openly? It would probably be simpler than lots of individual discussions.
For the record, I dislike veganism because it clashes with my personal belief system. I'm basically a non-practicing Pagan, and as such if I believe in anything it is the cycles and hierarchies of nature (good old mother earth). Feel your teeth: Those sharp incisors weren't made for chewing particularly tough Soy beans. Look at you stomach: those Protease enzymes aren't there to digest grass. Our bodies are designed to eat meat: to do otherwise is a denial of nature. This does not mean I'm a whole-hearted supporter of animal cruelty. Factory farming and a lot of slaughterhouse (and especially fur farming) methods are simply as un-natural, in my view. However, whilst this animal cruelty is tragic, I generally overlook it (Though I don't condone it. My family's cupboards are stocked with Free Range and Organic produce, and I don't think I've ever eaten anything from Spain as a protest against bull-fighting. These values have come down to me.) However, I believe it is wrong to concentrate on cruelty to animals when there is so much cruelty to humans. When all my fellow men and women are free from hunger, disease, war, oppression and intolerance, then I will start serious work on ending un-necessary animal cruelty. Until then, it is in my mind a sideline issue: victories against factory farmers, whalers or fox hunters to be taken wherever they can, but never lose sight of the humans dying needlessly every minute. No matter what your philosophies, animals cannot be equal to humans: the kinship one should feel for the other members of one's own species, the shared bond of common humanity, must come first, if we truly want to build a better society.
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In the end, it boils down to...
Animals = taste good
Vegetables = taste like dirt
Human intelligence (in general terms, there are many exceptions) > Animal intelligence
Therefore, it is the way of things that humans eat animals. If cows had evolved to be the predominant life form on Earth, and ate hoomans, the reverse would be true.
If I'm forced to take a buttload of vitamin pills and/or use other means to keep my body supplied with the materials it needs to survive, I am ignoring the benefits of millions of years of evolution.
My take on veganism:
I don't drink milk, I think it's nasty and just plain weird. Plus it smells funny.
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Dude, that's why you're supposed to put it in the fridge...
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When I say the things I hear about SLC scare me shitless, I mean the stories one hears of someone who's passing through and makes the mistake of asking an sxe kid for a light and ends up getting beaten with tire chains. People have died in sxe related incidents around that way.
Why the unwillingness to discuss veganism openly? It would probably be simpler than lots of individual discussions.
For the record, I dislike veganism because it clashes with my personal belief system. I'm basically a non-practicing Pagan, and as such if I believe in anything it is the cycles and hierarchies of nature (good old mother earth). Feel your teeth: Those sharp incisors weren't made for chewing particularly tough Soy beans. Look at you stomach: those Protease enzymes aren't there to digest grass. Our bodies are designed to eat meat: to do otherwise is a denial of nature. This does not mean I'm a whole-hearted supporter of animal cruelty. Factory farming and a lot of slaughterhouse (and especially fur farming) methods are simply as un-natural, in my view. However, whilst this animal cruelty is tragic, I generally overlook it (Though I don't condone it. My family's cupboards are stocked with Free Range and Organic produce, and I don't think I've ever eaten anything from Spain as a protest against bull-fighting. These values have come down to me.) However, I believe it is wrong to concentrate on cruelty to animals when there is so much cruelty to humans. When all my fellow men and women are free from hunger, disease, war, oppression and intolerance, then I will start serious work on ending un-necessary animal cruelty. Until then, it is in my mind a sideline issue: victories against factory farmers, whalers or fox hunters to be taken wherever they can, but never lose sight of the humans dying needlessly every minute. No matter what your philosophies, animals cannot be equal to humans: the kinship one should feel for the other members of one's own species, the shared bond of common humanity, must come first, if we truly want to build a better society
that was excellantly said.
first off, yeah, slc has some shitty people, and the way they act should NOT influence how you feel about sxe. were NOTHING like that. but, yeah, i could see how that would upset you.
as for veganism, well, ok, here goes. i didn't want to get into this, because if the reaction to me as a sxe kid is an example, i was afraid that starting a vegan discussion would REALLY light shit up. but, ok.
i understand where your coming from. i even agree with you on most of your points. human rights are JUST as important as animal rights. but not more so. i believe they are equal. i hold animals and people on equal footing. i do understand the argument of natural progression. in fact, i've met and had a healthy respect for several people who live out in the woods, and hunt/fish their food. i have no problem with that. i have a problem with the factory farming and slaughterhouse industry. my refusal to eat ANY animal product is a protest of that entire industry. i refuse to support ANY meat/dairy farming until these horrific practices are stopped. yes, that does go against the natural order of things, i know. but i'm doing it because i can't stand to watch these things happen. just like i protest the imprisonment of leanord peltier or i protest the tienanmen square massacre, or i protest any other violation of human rights. i'm willing to rail against those countries, to boycott goods and to put my all for the ending of suffering against a human being. why wouldn't i do the same for an animal? they have just as much right to live happy, healthy, cruelty-free lives as we do. i believe that we can help BOTH humans and animals. i believe that we can end the massacre and torture. on BOTH sides.
but, again, just like when it comes to sxe, it's all a choice. you seem to have found a good way to balance out your life, to create a place where you feel all your beliefs are well maintained. i've done the same. my ways are different from yours, but both are perfectly respectable.
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Ay. As I probably didn't put across properly, the core of my beliefs are built on values that border on the religious. They're also built on issues of pragmatism. In an ideal world, I would really love to live by hunting, farming w/e off my own land. That's what people are supposed to do, deep down. The problem is, there are simply too many humans alive to do this. Because of the value I place on human life (that of utterly limitless value except weighed against other human lives) I can't simply say 'cull the human race'. We have to live in the best way we can in this world. From what I understand, theoretically speaking, it would be impossible for the entire human race to suddenly live as vegans: we could never support ourselves. We've essentially bricked ourselves into a corner, and now to make any progress, imo, we must concentrate all our energies on one thing at a time. Global idealism is admirable, but too undirected, imo anyway.
Argument's circular anyway. Agree to disagree and all that. As you said: Both sets of ideals are perfectly respectable and we seem both quite set in them.
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Yeah okay I kinda came across as a dick in my last post. Sorry, I'm really not that much of an ass, I swear. I can see both sides of the equation, but, like Khar, I believe there are things that come before setting all the animals free.
Therefore, I am working on an invention called the UFD: Universal Food
Dispenser. In goes some stuff, nanotechnology voodoo hex magic happens, food pops out. It will be able to make even the funkiest polenta patty taste like real beef!
Khar: Refrigerator? DOH! That's what I've been getting wrong all these years!
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nah, i didn't think you were an asshole at all. just watched too many dennis leary stand-up routines. ;)
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lol. I read a science fiction novel recently in which humanity had created a method of making any food they wanted artificially: almost every one was, essentially, vegan, finding the idea of eating anything that had been alive revolting.
The authors sly comment on that nature of humanity was that, in this world, the radical marijuana-smoking student fringe were the ones running their own farms and eating natural meat and vegetables.
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interesting. was it the authors point that in the end, it was better to go the "natural" way of eating meat and vegetables, or that in the end, there's always going to be people who need to be different?
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and yeah, there are a LOT of sxe kids (and i do mean kids. theyre usually younger than 20) who don't have ANY sense of humor about themselves.
There was a discussion on another forum that I'm on where some edge kids went off about people liking to go to bars to see bands and drink while they are there.
"Shut up... You're fifteen. You can't legally drink, smoke, and you shouldn't be having sex."
I really don't care what people believe as long as they aren't assholes about it.
Anyway, nice Jawbreaker reference, and do you ever see Before Braille and Financial Panther out there? They're from the Phoenix area, not edge, but same area.
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I dont really have an opinion on the Straight Edge thing... Coz I dont actually know any straight edge people... And havent come across people harrassing me about this sorta thing... I know I wouldnt tolerate that...
But you know, live your life how you wanna, I'll live my life how I wanna, thats all there is to it...
Oh and on the veganism thing... My friend just recently became a vegan... And the way he explained it was sorta like... We're in the position where we dont HAVE to do this... Like we dont HAVE to murder animals to live... I mean I suppose you're right that it doesn't work on a global scale, but as individuals, we can make that choice... especially with all the cruelty to animals that goes on... I hear stories from chicken farms that are just horrible...
I think what actually annoys me, is vegetarians... or worse, Vegetarians who eat fish and chicken?... Whats with that?... I mean fair enough if you do it because you just dont like beef or whatever... But for moral reasons of eating meat? But they still eat chicken?... I know one girl, granted she is 13, but it just annoys the crap outta me... and she makes a big deal out of it too... "OH LOOK AT ME WITH MY CHICKEN BURGER WHILE YOU ALL EAT YOUR STEAKS"... I seriously dont see the difference... Anyway... with vegetarians... Cheese contains like calves something... Bah I'm not an expert obviously... But I really respect the vegan lifestyle... And if I wasnt a poor uni student who doesnt cope well with change, maybe I'd go with it... How hypocritical do I sound... Oh well... Sorry to go all off topic on you.. But the subject really interests me is all...
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...Cheese contains like calves something...
As far as I remember, Vegans argue that milking cows is akin to rape.
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NO NO NO!... I'm sure its something else... Vegans help me out here?...
Um... I'm definitely going to find out what it actually is... I hate having a dumb argument where I can't back it up... Oh I wish my vegan friend was online... I WILL FIND OUT!...
Bless dictionary.com...
ren·nin ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rnn)
n.
An enzyme that catalyzes the coagulation of milk, found in the gastric juice of the fourth stomach of young ruminants and used in making cheeses and junkets. Also called chymosin, rennet.
And in case you're like me and have to look up ruminants aswell:
ru·mi·nant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rm-nnt)
n.
Any of various hoofed, even-toed, usually horned mammals of the suborder Ruminantia, such as cattle, sheep, goats, deer, and giraffes, characteristically having a stomach divided into four compartments and chewing a cud consisting of regurgitated, partially digested food
Also, aparently it's just as easy to use a non-animal substitute... But I mean the cows are there so might as well kill em right... Well anyway... Just thought I'd back up my claim...
So eating cheese means eating baby cows...
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I thought it meant just stealing the calves' food, hmm sort of stealing candy from a baby, except it's healthy and life-substaining candy. Anyway generally we live in a sick peadophile food culture, I everything has to be mini and baby doesn't it? and we don't eat hens, noooo, we eat chickens, who aren't really chickens since chickens are the small yellow ones, while these fellas are pollo del diablo! What it all comes down to, is that babies taste good, lamb, calf, caviar etc. children are tasty
don't mind me, I am just rambling ;)
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I'm pretty sure you have to kill the calf to get the stuff outta its stomach... But I could be wrong?
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WHERE IS THE LOVE
to quote Justin Timberlake ;)
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WHERE IS THE LOVE
to quote Justin Timberlake ;)
Is that what he was looking for underneath Janet Jackson's bodice?
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in that case, he was looking in the wrooong place, I mean there isn't anything *real* in there...I am being so unwitty...
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Yeah - not so much love under there, as a whole lot of irrational fear and hatred . . .
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No I'm serious I don't get it.
They're not allowed to do ingest anything particularly fun or play doctors and nurses.
They have to do something!
Warning! Drastic overgeneralisation ALERT.
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I'm pretty sure you have to kill the calf to get the stuff outta its stomach... But I could be wrong?
No, I'm pretty sure that's right. You can get vegetarian cheese though, rennet isn't essential since there's some kind of synthesised substitute.
Khar, some vegans do argue that milking cows is akin to rape. Personally I disagree, it's the treatment of the animals and their needless slaughter I dislike so I stick to the soy. And on the subject of veganism, one of my reasons is that it generally leaves a smaller 'ecological footprint' and since I'm rather fond of wilderness and bio-diversity it seems like a good idea to me.
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Lifes far too short to not enjoy meat, dairy products, booze and so forth. Sod leaving a better world for your grandchildren, theres far too much money to be made by raping hte world, so why fight it. Truly, apathy is a wonderful thing, well, more like realism really but it amounts to basically the same thing.
I've never understood the whole straight edge thing, seems like denying yourself pleasure for the visceral thrill of feeling superior to other people who are, you know, so much less aware of the worlds plight and the dangers of alcohol, drugs and sex than you are. Feck off, I'm perfectly aware thank you very bloody much, which is part of the reason I indulge.
Like anything really, keep it to yourself and don't bother me with it and I'm ok with it, but the moment someone start to try forcing their lifestyle and/or beliefs on me I start to get very, very twitchy indeed and hippy ass
vegan killjoys seem to be among the worst people for doing that. Right up there with fundamentalist religous nuts. And those people who raise their children to be vegans and then freak out when their kids eat a burger at school. Ignoring the probably dicey quality of the burger for a moment, if your childs chosen to eat it then fuck off and leave them alone, it's not like they've decided to become a neo-nazi or something. Parents have actually sued schools for that, it's absurd.
ahem, I'm done.
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WHAT IS UP WITH KIDS PUNCHING EACH OTHER AT GIGS AND OR SHOWS
WHAT IS UP
WITH THAT
ok, we'll start with you.
because, and i'm gonna explain this one, that's how we dance.
hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does. they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing. punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in. we like to throw kicks. punches. i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds. call it adrenaline. call it masochism. hell if i know. i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it. i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend. it happens. if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit. it's that simple.
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Lifes far too short to not enjoy meat, dairy products, booze and so forth. Sod leaving a better world for your grandchildren, theres far too much money to be made by raping hte world, so why fight it. Truly, apathy is a wonderful thing, well, more like realism really but it amounts to basically the same thing.
I've never understood the whole straight edge thing, seems like denying yourself pleasure for the visceral thrill of feeling superior to other people who are, you know, so much less aware of the worlds plight and the dangers of alcohol, drugs and sex than you are. Feck off, I'm perfectly aware thank you very bloody much, which is part of the reason I indulge.
Like anything really, keep it to yourself and don't bother me with it and I'm ok with it, but the moment someone start to try forcing their lifestyle and/or beliefs on me I start to get very, very twitchy indeed and hippy ass
vegan killjoys seem to be among the worst people for doing that. Right up there with fundamentalist religous nuts. And those people who raise their children to be vegans and then freak out when their kids eat a burger at school. Ignoring the probably dicey quality of the burger for a moment, if your childs chosen to eat it then fuck off and leave them alone, it's not like they've decided to become a neo-nazi or something. Parents have actually sued schools for that, it's absurd.
ahem, I'm done.
ok, so, you basically say that you hate it when sxe kids/vegans start shoving their ideals down your throat.
MAN do i agree with you.
that is the most fucked up thing ANYONE can do. yeah, i'm sxe, yeah, i'm vegan. i'm proud to be both. i honestly think that both are the best way's to live life. but, in the end, that's MY opinion. how you live your life is up to you, and if you do it differently, and your happy, and your not hurting anyone else, then more power to you.
and, just to get this out of the way, one of my favorite things to do is to go and hang out in a pub with my sister. play cards. i just drink coffee, and she drinks alcohol. so, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
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I think we can all agree that coffee is awesome.
IF YOU DO NOT AGREE THAT COFFEE IS AWSOME I WILL RAIN DEATH DOWN UPON YOU
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Given that I don't listen to any hardcore or punk or anything like that I haven't really had much experience with these straight edge kids. So, I don't really care. I guess as long as they aren't being dicks about it then it's all good.
in fact, I've got just concocted an amazing theory. It's not good when crap like this becomes your defining characteristic. It's always when people decide to define themselves through something like straightedge, or christianity, that they become dicks about it. That's the difference between "I don't eat animal products" and "I'm Vegan".
Yeah.
On a side note, I might have been acosted by a straightedge kid once, in line for a Hip-Hop gig, suprisingly enough. Quannum it was. This guy just came up to me and started telling me to stop drinking and smoking (I was doing neither) because they made people violent. He was getting really angry about it and stuff. I don't actually know if he was straightedge, so he might have just been crazy.
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Given that I don't listen to any hardcore or punk or anything like that I haven't really had much experience with these straight edge kids. So, I don't really care. I guess as long as they aren't being dicks about it then it's all good.
in fact, I've got just concocted an amazing theory. It's not good when crap like this becomes your defining characteristic. It's always when people decide to define themselves through something like straightedge, or christianity, that they become dicks about it. That's the difference between "I don't eat animal products" and "I'm Vegan".
Yeah.
On a side note, I might have been acosted by a straightedge kid once, in line for a Hip-Hop gig, suprisingly enough. Quannum it was. This guy just came up to me and started telling me to stop drinking and smoking (I was doing neither) because they made people violent. He was getting really angry about it and stuff. I don't actually know if he was straightedge, so he might have just been crazy.
oh, i agree with you. like i said in an earlier post, straightedge is a characteristic that i define myself by, not my defining characteristic. there's all sorts of other interesting things about me that make me me. it's just that i've got sxe stuff tattooed all over me, so that's the one i seem to talk about the most...oh well.
and i'd say that guy was just crazy. CRAZY LIKE A FOX!!!
ok, that made no sense.
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I think we can all agree that coffee is awesome.
IF YOU DO NOT AGREE THAT COFFEE IS AWSOME I WILL RAIN DEATH DOWN UPON YOU
DEAR GOD i love coffee. like seriously, it's a pretty well known fact in my group of friends that talking to me before my morning coffee is pretty much a death sentence.
which of course brings about the question "but that's a drug, doesn't that make you a hypocrite blah blah blah"
well, no. see, there's a lot of ambiguity when it comes to caffeine, tylenol, ny-quil, that sort of thing. it was pretty much decided in the sxe community a while ago that that sort of thing was up to the individual to decide how they felt about it. like i said, i have friends who REFUSE to ingest caffeine, of any sort. me, i like coffee, i like chocolate. it's tasty. i never have more than two cups a day (well, sometimes three. eh, i'm a wildman). in my mind, it's about self-destructive behavior. if i was drinking SO much coffee every day, that it started to effect who i was, then i'd stop. but it doesn't. even in the morning, i'm just grumpy cuz i'm awake and the world hasn't ended yet (despite my prayers. DAMN YOU JOE PESCI!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!), not because i haven't had my coffee yet. that's all.
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OMG TEA IS BETTAR.
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As a Brit, I have legal power to comfirm that fact. Doubly so when you add crumpets into the equation as well.
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tea IS better
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nothing goes together better than tea, crumpets, and a warm sunday afternoon. awesome.
straight edge is the most hypotrical self-rightous mass of misguided stupid it's ever been my complete lack of fortune to be unable to avoid. you know how many gnits you kill when you wash your hair? you know the damage they do to the environment just making the lousy cd's you dance ridiculously to? gah, i'm a cynic. i'd love to talk about this with you in more detail.
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first off, no, tea sucks, you crumpet munching bastards :).
secondly, well, yeah. you kill things no matter what. i just killed thousands upon millions of microscopic organisms by BREATHING. that's unavoidable. i like washing my hair. clean smells attract girls. my problem is not with killing, or death. that is a natural thing. my problem is with the factory farming and the dairy industry. my problem is with the ecological rape that both of these industries perform on a daily basis. my problem is that, in the end, their methods are NOT natural, and in fact help to hurt the very people that they serve. i have always stated that if we were to ever go back to a hunter/gatherer society, then i would happily eat meat again. but, seeing as that's not going to happen, i'm gonna be vegan.
third, you made a pretty strong anti-edge statement, but didn't really give any reasons why you didn't like sxe. you railed mainly against veganism. why do you dislike straightedge?
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*Chips in*
Straight Edgers suck because I get called one evertime I tell someone I dont drink, smoke or do drugs. It's mainly the not drinking thing. Lots of people seem to think I'm sXe rather than think I just dont drink because I dont want to.
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yeah. that sucks. being labeled something that your not is never, ever fun. personally, though, i hate the reaction i get when i'm hanging out with people who DO drink, and i tell them that i DON'T. they get all...twitchy. like i'm calling them terrible people. kind of makes me wonder if they have some latent guilt about drinking, and if they do, why. it's just wierd.
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I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or sleep around. I do, however, consider hardcore dancing to be "retarded," to put it politely.
Also, hardline straight-edgers are assholes.
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I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or whatever. I'm also a vegan. I don't see how the two things have anything to do with each other.
With the drinking thing, it's really never been a problem - if someone offers me a beer, I say, "no, thanks." That's pretty much the end of it. I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.
People get a little weird about meat, but not being an asshole makes even the most awkward social events navigable. Also, I've talked about the vegan thing on this board before, so I'm not going to bore everyone by going into it again...
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i don't know, i guess i have no right to dislike you guys becasue you've never crossed me personally, it's just when you come to a festival SPONSORED by a beer company and whine, it makes me want to break things.
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With me, the drinking thing, I just get asked why I dont alot. But I always make it clear it's me that doesn't like to drink but I dont care about other people and I'm not out to ruin fun.
I'll go down the pub, laugh at my mates getting pissed then remind them of the horrible things I did in the morning.
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Well I don't drink, do drugs or smoke either, but that is just taste mainly, fx. alcohol tastes like shit, drugs are the equivalent of kneecapping yourself and then getting abstinences and shooting the other knee=idiotic, same thing with smoking. Coffee smells weird, I wouldn't touch it with a stick even at a safe distance and Tea, just boiled warm water, has no taste whatsoever...
I still don't understand this straightedge thing, but that is probably because none of this exists in Denmark, there is metalheads and that's it.
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Lucky you. Tea tastes great, stop drinking cheap stuff you fool :P And yes booze tastes like crap, another fine reason not to drink.
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Tea, just boiled warm water, has no taste whatsoever...
You're obviously not making it right, because Tea rocks your socks with flavor.
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Is drinking tea right now!
(http://www.robbo.oeck.net/Stuff/tea.jpg)
See! You can even see the QC forum posting page in the background.
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I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or whatever. I'm also a vegan. I don't see how the two things have anything to do with each other.
With the drinking thing, it's really never been a problem - if someone offers me a beer, I say, "no, thanks." That's pretty much the end of it. I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.
People get a little weird about meat, but not being an asshole makes even the most awkward social events navigable. Also, I've talked about the vegan thing on this board before, so I'm not going to bore everyone by going into it again...
being edge and being vegan are mutually exclusive. i have really good friends that are edge, and eat meat. i have good friends that are vegan and drink. i just mentioned that i was vegan, and people started asking me all about it.
and i don't expect people to start sucking my dick because i'm edge (would that even work? "hey baby, i'm straightedge" "ohmygod!! lets go to my car so i can slobber on your soldier!!" yeah, i don't think so), it's just an important part of who i am. i like to talk about it. if people don't wanna talk about it, i'm also a writer, i love to read, music is pretty much the fundemental reason for my being, and i like comics and cartoons.
if anyone wants to talk about that, lemme know.
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the individual tenets(sp?) of straightedge-ness as i understand*, such as not drinking, smoking, sleeping around etc are stand up ideas and i have respcect for anybody that follows them. What i find silly (dumb silly) is the whole religiion** aspect of it, and the idea of breaking edge and excluding somebody from your club who doesnt share youre *exact**** beliefs. maybe i'm missing the point or maybe all the sXe's are****.
*i probally dont.
**not as in god, but as is system of belief.
***i may be wrong, im in a mildly drunken philisophical mood.
****is it true that the whole X thing sstarted with showing solidarity to the underage kids at gigs, if so, its a cool idea taken to a silly extreme.
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ok, we'll start with you.
because, and i'm gonna explain this one, that's how we dance.
hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does. they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing. punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in. we like to throw kicks. punches. i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds. call it adrenaline. call it masochism. hell if i know. i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it. i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend. it happens. if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit. it's that simple.
Thank you for starting with me and thank you for answering my query. I still do not get it though, that I will admit. The issue is further confused by the straightedge couple I live with, who insist that "there is no actual hitting - everybody has their own space", until they are in the presence of other S-X-E (straight/edge) people when they are suddenly like "HELL YES THAT WAS AWESOME I KICKED A STRANGER'S JAW CLEAN OFF TONIGHT". They are good people who I wish well for in my heart but they kind of turn into raving arseharpies around the issue of their subculture.
Yours in puzzlement,
James
x<--- this is a kiss not a sXe cross or like "exxed-up" hands or whatever. I'm not gay though, I swear.
haha. glad i could *kinda* clear things up. sounds like you live with a couple of people who are a little hypocritical. my friends GLEEFULLY admit to the fact that they usually aim at people. me, actually. they usually aim at me. my friends suck. anywho, yeah, it's a pretty macho thing, and honestly, i'm not really into it. but, at the same time, as long as everyone is having a good old time, i don't really care. if someone is standing RIGHT NEXT TO the pit, and start complaining about getting hit, well, that's stupid. stand up front, or in the back. that's where i go.
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the individual tenets(sp?) of straightedge-ness as i understand*, such as not drinking, smoking, sleeping around etc are stand up ideas and i have respcect for anybody that follows them. What i find silly (dumb silly) is the whole religiion** aspect of it, and the idea of breaking edge and excluding somebody from your club who doesnt share youre *exact**** beliefs. maybe i'm missing the point or maybe all the sXe's are****.
*i probally dont.
**not as in god, but as is system of belief.
***i may be wrong, im in a mildly drunken philisophical mood.
****is it true that the whole X thing sstarted with showing solidarity to the underage kids at gigs, if so, its a cool idea taken to a silly extreme.
well, you've stumbled onto one of the more difficult points of being sxe. what DO you do with someone who sells out (that's my term, btw)? well, theyre not sxe anymore. sorry. it's just that simple. you can be drug free, or not drink, or whatever, but if your edge and you start to drink, your not edge anymore. i usually liken it to buddism. not that they really have anything in common, just that they're both a lifestyle, a choice. and once you stop living that lifestyle, then your no longer sxe, and you never will be again. i'll still be your friend, just please don't claim edge.
of course, this is my personal philosphy. don't take this as the be all and end all of sxe belief.
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Straightedge is fucking retarded.
YAY I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE I FOLLOW AN ABRITRARILY DETERMINED LIFESTYLE NOW LET ME BLATHER ON ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AT A TIME
Seriously. You don't drink or smoke or whatever? Cool, good for you. But the minute you come up with a catchphrase for your lifestyle I begin to lose respect.
Hehe as the emo's say
Patatat <3 Jeph
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hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does. they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing. punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in. we like to throw kicks. punches. i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds. call it adrenaline. call it masochism. hell if i know. i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it. i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend. it happens. if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit. it's that simple.
On behalf of other hardcore guys I feel compelled to point out that this is NOT how we dance. That's how macho tough guys dance, and it's just plain dumb.
"So we don't dance because the pit's no fun. Kids are standing at the back and they're not coming to the shows. They don't want to get involved and these problems must be solved... You might be tough but it's you we reject because we don't want to see our scene wrecked. Windmill kickbox another kid's down. Learnt to move to the back of the crowd."
- HHH, 'Pitbull'
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Ooh, actually, that's a point.
Whilst I have no real objection to Hardcore kids dancing however they like.
I wish they would only do it at hardcore shows.
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yeah, well, that's always a problem when metal and hardcore kids get together. different styles of dancing.
and wolves, umm, i hate to break it to you, but EVERYWHERE i've gone, thats how kids dance. maybe it's different in the uk, but in the us, that's how it's gone. at least in my experience.
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You do get it here, but I find it hard to believe that's the only way it's done in the US since I've seen footage of US gigs where people are moshing without being dumb. Sorry, but all that violent dancing stuff is moronic. If you want to go smack your friends about do it outside and leave the gigs for those of us who're there to appreciate the music and mosh the way it's meant to be done.
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could be. i've never seen it. maybe i'm only going to violent shows.
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So, I was at a metal gig, and this metalcore band were playing support. The musics slacked off and most of the people are out the pit but there's this hardcore kid running around the pit basically sort of slamming into people at the sides (who weren't in the pit) and pushing off them. Really annoying.
Anyway. He slams into this big guy in an Impaled Nazarene shirt. Spills his pint.
Big guy hands the remains of his pint to his mate and then just runs sideways and slams into the hardcore kid SO HARD that he actually flies six or so feet into the side of the pit.
Goes back, finishes his pint. Hardcore kid not seen in pit again.
Don't know what the moral of that story was, but it was damn funny.
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I'm a little confused here. Before we started talking about fighting at shows, how was this about music?
Secondly, since when was there a "straightedge" label. And why do we care?
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well, it was kind of a six degrees thing. straightedge was a philosophy born out of music. and this thread started because of another thread that was about music and...you get the picture.
and you don't have to care. not my problem. i was just trying to clear up any misconceptions people may have had. just trying to be friendly.
oh, and khar, yeah. that is funny.
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I saw someone try to windmill whilst drunk once as well.
Actually, thinking back on that, I think I see why hardcore dancing and no drinking go together so well.
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yeah, it definately takes a certain amount of coordination. just trying to imagine someone windmilling while drunk...yeah, that's damn funny.
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Funny, because here in Sweden, it's usually the crust-punks that throw themselves into crowds. I do not want your spikes or cigarettes on me, thank you.
I must admit I do like the whole macho-style mosh thing, but people need to realize it requires some basic fucking hand-eye coordination, and isn't actually about hitting people.
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Maybe it's just me being the spawn of Satan and all but i have to admit i got a hell of alot of satisfaction from turning a 'straight edge' guy pretty crooked ........ now he drinks and eats meat and well as for sex *giggles* yeah he does that too..... yes yes i am demonic i know and I should be using my looks which are deemed attractive by the majority of society for good and not evil; but evil is so much more fun
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One more : Why are you always refrerring to straightedge as sxe? THERE'S NO FUCKING X THERE?!?! AHGRHGAHGRHGRA etc
Ok, I'm done.
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I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.
Well that's where you're going wrong. If you sort your attitude problems out, you too could be straight edge!
I mean, XStraightXedgeX
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XhoorayX! XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X
Oh, and to try and make this thread have something to do with music... I listened to that Earth Crisis band once and I giggled. Is that the appropriate reaction?
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"I want your sXe. *Unzips pants*" to rip off someone from another board.
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XhoorayX! XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X
Oh, and to try and make this thread have something to do with music... I listened to that Earth Crisis band once and I giggled. Is that the appropriate reaction?
Pretty much, they really are totally ridiculous but the early stuff is quite fun to listen to in a jokey way. Firestorm has a good riff, but it really did sound better when Reversal of Man nicked it for 'Get The Kid With The Sideburns'.
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Straightedge is fucking retarded.
YAY I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE I FOLLOW AN ABRITRARILY DETERMINED LIFESTYLE NOW LET ME BLATHER ON ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AT A TIME
Seriously. You don't drink or smoke or whatever? Cool, good for you. But the minute you come up with a catchphrase for your lifestyle I begin to lose respect.
Mother fucking OWNED! :D
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Or, you know, not.
XhoorayX! XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X
Nope.
THERE'S NO FUCKING X THERE?!?! AHGRHGAHGRHGRA etc
I'm not edge myself, so I'm no expert, but I always thought it was some sort of portmanteau (I can't think of a better word) involving the X that edgers wear on the back of their hands.
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alright, that's it. look, i was simply trying, in a friendly way, to explain straightedge to some people who may not have understood it. most of you got that, and have been friendly. to the rest of you, well, it's sad that you can't seem to just accept people for their values. and i'm not talking about the hardline straightedge kids who try and force their opinions down your throat. i'm talking about kids like me, who are edge, and proud, but more than happy to live their lives and let you live yours. grow up.
again, to most everyone else, you were very nice. it's just a few people who ruined it for me. but, then, this is the internet. not sure why i thought having an intelligent, respectful conversation was possible in the first place. oh well.
consider this thread dead. i'm done with it. move on.
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Aw, sorry about the lack of acceptance dude.
I know it's hard being straightedge, and I admire people who are, as long as they aren't blatantly knocking my beer out of my hand. Keep doign what you're doing and don't let anyone tell you it's stupid.
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^ Seconded...
Also, don't fear any more abuse, I think the board's gone back to mocking emo kiddies again ;)
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I used to be straightedge (five years) until I realized that it's really not much more than a fraternity without the drinking and sex.
Fraternity - Indentified by three (or two) letters. Comprised of testosterone fueled alpha-males shotgunning cheap beer and doling out wedgies to campus math nerds.
Straightedge - Indentified by three letters. Comprised of testosterone fueled alpha-males doing windmills in the pit and doling out wedgies to the smoking, drinking, meat eating nerds.
If you can do it without the macho-male posturing, more power to you.
ps. Sorry, I don't have an X watch anymore...
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All generalising ever is stupid. ;) Or something to that effect.
Just do what you feel right and don't give other people grief for what they're doing (within reason of course - stabbing and general nastyness excluded). It goes both ways and there's just no need for it.
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i usually liken it to buddism. not that they really have anything in common.
damn that got me thinking. while i dabbled with the idea of being sXe for an entire ten minutes, i considered buddism, even if somehwhat shallowly for a good while longer (before i ever knew what straight edge was).
i can see were you are coming from, in that budhism and straightedge are similar although very different. from what little i know about budhism i think it is a far more personal voyage than the group mentaily of sxe and therefore, unlike being straight edge it is something which you youreself belive in and inculde yourself in, whereas being straight edge is defined by the vaules of the group being a buddist is defined by the values of the individaul's beliefs. IMO this is a very important distinction.
usual unimformed and drunken disclamiers apply. my interprtetation of budhism may be slightly or very shiny and blinkered. correct me.
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Why isn't this thread dead yet...
Its pretty obvious it sucks.
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from what little i know about budhism i think it is a far more personal voyage
Shouldn't that be impersonal voyage? ;)
Man, I read this thread, but I still don't understand what straight edge actually means. I mean, I don't do any of the stuff that straight edge people explicitly don't do, but when you define a culture purely in negative terms, it's either completely open to interpretation or the whole thing is just a euphemism for some cliquishness that nobody wants to actually point out. My grandpa doesn't smoke crack; is he straight edge?
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Why isn't this thread dead yet...
Its pretty obvious it sucks.
Agreed.