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[ozphactor]

I was perusing something in the music forum when I came across this:

No way. Firefox is a mac thing. I hate macs, and apple, they look nice, and come in pretty colours, but like your average party slut, there is nothing beyond that.

I didn't want to derail the thread, so I'm replying to it here.

First off: WTF. "Firefox is a Mac thing"? What the fuck makes Firefox a "Mac thing"? The fact that it runs on Mac? Did you know that it also runs on Windows and Linux? In fact, Firefox is very poorly adapted for the Mac, owing to its nonsupport of native OS X widgets. The vast majority of Mac users prefer Safari (or Camino, which is based on the same rendering engine as Fx, but is OS X-native) for this very reason. Firefox is mainly useful to Windows users who have switched to Mac and are looking for a familiar browser, as well Mac users who take advantage of Fx's large selection of extensions. There is, however, such an abundance of good browsers for the Mac operating system that Firefox pales in comparison. On Windows, it's pretty much the only viable alternative to IE.

Next: "I hate macs, and apple, they look nice, and come in pretty colours, but like your average party slut, there is nothing beyond that" is possibly the shallowest, most baseless statement I have ever read. Care to back that up? Let's see, Apple has possibly the most talented industrial designer alive (Jonathan Ive) working for them, crafting computers and electronic devices that are simple and accessible even to technophobes. OS X is almost universally regarded as the most beautiful, elegant, and user-friendly operating system available today, and is based on Unix, making it far less prone to attack than Windows. Macs feature seamless hardware and software integration, resulting in much greater stability than is possible on Wintels. Apple has an excellent team of marketers who must be doing something right given the millions of iPods they've sold. Granted, Apple has just as many faults as other companies, but I'd like to see you name some, instead of just throwing out a blanket statement like "they look nice, and come in pretty colours." Oh, and they don't come in pretty colors anymore; Apple is more more partial to white plastic and aluminum these days.


Sorry if I wasted your time with this rant. As a huge fan of Firefox and of Apple, I felt it my duty to defend them. Carry on.

[Rizzo]

I only have two problems with Mac.
1. The lack of a second mouse button. It makes it hard for us windows users to change across. And pressing control is pretty annoying.
2.The cost. Macs are very expensive in NZ.
Otherwise; YAY!

[ozphactor]

1. The lack of a second mouse button. It makes it hard for us windows users to change across. And pressing control is pretty annoying.

You do realize you can just plug in a third-party mouse, don't you? Like the one you're currently using with your PC? Also, all desktop Macs now come standard with the Mighty Mouse (which is technically not a two-button mouse, but close).

2.The cost. Macs are very expensive in NZ.

Fair point. They're expensive pretty much everywhere. Which is why I still don't have one

[FreshJive787]

if mac just released OSX for install on PC's i would get it in a heartbeat, but thats not gonna happen.

so sad i cant afford a mac..

[Rizzo]

You do realize you can just plug in a third-party mouse, don't you? Like the one you're currently using with your PC? Also, all desktop Macs now come standard with the Mighty Mouse (which is technically not a two-button mouse, but close).

I do know that but the fact that they aren't standard bugs me just a little.

[Valrus]

Sorry if I wasted your time with this rant. As a huge fan of Firefox and of Apple, I felt it my duty to defend them. Carry on.

I used to feel that way, but there are just too many stupid fucks casting baseless aspersions to respond to all of them. At this point, I try to just respond to friends of mine who are saying things that are blatantly untrue and let everything else roll of my back. The poor saps just don't know any better.

Wait, I just re-read that. It was in the music forum? Here?

Oh well, I guess I thought better of the people here. Still, there's always a few morons.

[MilkmanDan]

I find it pretty funny to be honest. You are never going to get far in life if you flip a lid everytime you run into a retard. Just point, laugh, and move on. I do this to people who aren't retarded too, just in case.

[almost thursday]

dude, if something that somebody thinks is gonna wind you up this much then you need to open a window and spark a fucking doob right now. seriously, there's way more important shit in life than what somebody you'll never meet thinks of a internet browser.

[Switchblade]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2285904448784173497

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1426799135617071352&q=mac

'nuff said. I'm a PC user, and always will be. sure, they're buggy, unstable, easy to crack wide open if you know what you're doing and so much more - but at the same time, they're powerful, versatile, and handy. And, small point of fact, so many more people know PCs properly that it's easier to find help when something goes wrong.

[Valrus]

Yup, it's pretty crazy how you can have two choices, each with its ups and downs.

Pretty crazy, all right.

[nescience]

Hmm, barring the obvious (which is that this is meant to be humorous and not taken too too seriously)... pretty much all issues brought up in the first video are issues relating to interface design and default user experience shipped with the OS.  Similar complaints could be lodged against the many varieties of the Windows OS regarding application hangs, cryptic interrupt keys (which is really an issue of process branding), update notifiers (I HATE THE FUCKING WINDOWS UPDATE DOCK BUBBLE), dock activation, and default (and configurable) CD/DVD insert actions.  Many of this guy's complaints stem from the fact that he doesn't know how to use his Mac (or is acting like he doesn't know how to use his Mac in order to make a badly-argued point).  Oh my god, a process locked up?!  And he's a professional Mac user but he has to go to the store to get Norton Utilities??

Second video... well yeah, of course.  Serious gamers use PCs.  But many also have entire Linux builds and some have Macs as well, because, well, they're serious.  And as someone who doesn't care about gaming, I defer to the first video, where the guy straight-up admits that most multimedia editing is done on a Mac.

Third video focuses on an issue that existed for maybe three years when OSX was first released and was alleviated with the Classic dual-boot.  And I know, it's a somewhat more awkward solution than XP's classic interface in terms of initiating old novice users. However, from what I've seen, for novice users the difficulty of using or configuring either is pretty comparable.

Anyway, I find that many PC user complaints (edit: about Macs) stem from user bias and a general ignorance about the use of the OSX interface.  If you can't handle the interface, just say so, but if you're going to comment on the OS behavior, why don't you learn how to use the fucking computer first?  I learned how to use a PC without too much trouble.  There is hope.

addition: Regarding the ease of service... Consumer Reports argues that a consequence of Apple's proprietary hardware and OS is that its customer service reps are much better at integrated diagnosis and solution-finding, making Apple's customer service by far the best in the personal computing industry.  But this is a complicated numbers issue I wish not to pursue further.

[McTaggart]

1. The lack of a second mouse button. It makes it hard for us windows users to change across. And pressing control is pretty annoying.

This does, however have the very nice ide effect of making it much easier to help people who aren't particularly computer literate. On windows after the first time you tell someone to click with the right mouse button every time you ask them to click you get the old "Left or right?" You say "Left" and then they right-click.

2.The cost. Macs are very expensive in NZ.
Otherwise; YAY!

Yeah, that one does kinds suck. But hopefully when the new intel ones come out the PPC ones will be cheap. Actually, I think they are out. Will have to do a price check now.

[ozphactor]

dude, if something that somebody thinks is gonna wind you up this much then you need to open a window and spark a fucking doob right now. seriously, there's way more important shit in life than what somebody you'll never meet thinks of a internet browser.

You're absolutely right. But sometimes I just gotta vent, ya know?

[Rizzo]

But sometimes I just gotta vent, ya know?

http://www.livejournal.com

[ozphactor]

http://www.livejournal.com

Ugh, no thanks. I'm pretty much sure I'd run into so many retards there I'd explode. Although maybe not as many as at MySpace.

[Gryff]

AAAARRGH! C0MPUT0RZ!!!0NE0NE!!

HULK BROWSE!

[Bunnyman]

I hate Mac Mafiosi.  I do rather like Macs, but for compatibility and customizability issues I'll probably never have one as a primary.  Mac Mafiosi seem to find the mere thought of using a PC detestable, and don't have any arguments that hold weight.  Someone says "PCs suck" and everybody nods approvingly.  A friend of mine at UCLA says that professors will allow extensions on projects because the student "only had a PC available."  For some reason, this doesn't apply to PC users that only have access to Mac users.

KDE = The Shit.

[jeph]

As an avid Apple user who also owns a PC I can definitively say that PCs do not "suck". Each platform has its advantages and disadvantages- depending on what you're looking for in a personal computer, one may be a better choice for you than the other, or it might be a toss-up.

I use my PC for games and checking intarwebs code on non-Mac browsers. I usemy Apples for everything else. It's a solution that works well for me.

[ozphactor]

Well said. For the record, I'm actually a PC user who just happens to be huge fan of Apple as well as of the Mac operating system. I plan on getting an Intel Mac as soon as I can afford one, but I'm definitely dual-booting Windows on it (as soon as someone figures out how).

[will: wanton sex god]

i dont really game much, so when i quit wow i went to macs for my instant message/web browsing/email/ipod/music purposes

[nihilist]

Intel Macs will be able to run Windows no problem, but non-Apple Intel PCs won't be able to run OS X.  It's a one way street.  Hate when companies pull shit like that...

Personally, I don't like Apple.  Despise, in fact.  Don't like the zealots that their company seems to spawn, don't like their music store, don't like their DRM, don't like their OS.

So, I don't use/own anything by them.

And I'm quite happy.

The end.

[djjester]

Intel Macs will be able to run Windows no problem, but non-Apple Intel PCs won't be able to run OS X.  It's a one way street.  Hate when companies pull shit like that...

Personally, I don't like Apple.  Despise, in fact.  Don't like the zealots that their company seems to spawn, don't like their music store, don't like their DRM, don't like their OS.

So, I don't use/own anything by them.

And I'm quite happy.

The end.

Hehe the best part about the new Intel Macs is that companies like Adobe are saying "Eh we're not going to bother developing our software for it"

All the professional software needed for folks in the music, web, and video industry arn't available on INTEL mac's and won't be for a long time if ever.

Makes ya wonder if Apple's just shooting itself in the foot or this is the first step in Apple beginning to dump its hardware and become an OS and Software that can run on any pc just like Microsoft.

[jhocking]

companies like Adobe are saying "Eh we're not going to bother developing our software for it"

All the professional software needed for folks in the music, web, and video industry arn't available on INTEL mac's and won't be for a long time if ever.

link?

[djjester]

I was listening to Leo Laporte and gang on the This Week In Tech podcast.

They were speaking about it a few weeks ago (I believe when they recorded live from Mac World Expo).

For those of ya who don't know about tWiT, its a great podcast hosted by Leo Laporte (Call 4 Help, G4 / TechTV Canada, fomerly host of The Screen Savers on TechTV) as well as several other vets from TechTV who all work in various areas of the industry now.  Apple's Steve Wozniack has been on the show a couple times now as has famous hacker Kevin Mittnick.

Great podcast to listen to, www.twit.tv

*edited to fix link

[Valrus]

why every thread that involves Macs has to disintegrate into anti-Apple FUD, I have no idea

[djjester]

why every thread that involves Macs has to disintegrate into anti-Apple FUD, I have no idea

Now now, nothing against apple here, I just don't use them.

I do find it suprising though they've made such a big deal about going to Intel and the major software folks like Adobe are saying "we don't care, we're not making another set of code for you"..

That suprises me and I'm sure is making some folks not buy the new apples.

[Samari]

also, the next generation power chip looks pretty interesting, so the move is kind of puzzling.  But realisticly, Apple's biggest growth area for the next few years is in home electronics and content delivery.  They've never been more than a niche market segment as far as desktops and laptops are concerned.  I remember reading after the switch to Intel that Apple's business didn't even amount to the capacity of one fab plant for IBM.

[Valrus]

From Adobe's "Support for Intel-based Mac computers" FAQ (link goes to a PDF file, consider yourself warned):

Adobe plans to support both Intel and PowerPC microprocessors in the next versions of its creative applications for the Mac OS.
...
...we're excited about the potential speed and performance of Intel-based Macs, and the productivity boost that this will likely yield for our creative professional customers. To support Apple's new computer systems, we are doing the following:

Moving our Macintosh development to Apple's Xcode, so we can deliver Universal applications that run natively on both the new Intel-based Mac computers...

[edscoble]

I love my Mac and PC, I just perfer the Macintosh because I've been using it since birth, Windows is still a mature operation system, and it's still is impressive by today standard, I use Windows a lots at university when it come to animation, the Macintosh's software such as Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack Pro, etc. are top notch, brilliantly easy to use and I'm a bit surprised that Adobe Photoshop is more integrated to FCP than to Premiere.

The Macintosh suit anyone, it's doesn't limited to the "creative" area as some people think, ok, perhaps CAD not the best option on a Macintosh, unless you got a nice fat G5 or the latest Intel.

Another thing about the Macintosh is that anyone can use it, they can easily stop worrying about putting up firewall, anti-virus and such and not worried about crashing (application-crash is still normal), it's perfect for college/university student too, I'd highly recommended them to get it, because as a student myself, there's nothing worse than losing all your work after you misused the computer.

I love my PC because of it's raw performance, OS X felt faster but raw performance, Windows is still better, gaming or not, that's still a myth, for professional user, a Mac or PC is redundant to them, they only get the fastest machine that can render/encode quickly as possible for their budget.

I used my 400Mhz (yes, 400MHz and it still run the lastest OS X - 10.4.5+) PowerBook for everyday stuff such as e-mailing, web browsing, music, Photoshop (amazingly still speedy), Illustrator etc, but I used my Dell Dimension E510 (3.40Ghz, RadeonTM X300 graphic card, and 4GB of RAM) for high end stuff like rendering movie, why? because it's so damn cheap, I even got a discount for the 20inch monitor.

what I'm saying is, both operation system are fantastic, OS X generally idea for anyone, and much robust like a Toyota, while XP, if you know how to handle it (like I did, all I have to do is set a firewall properly, no need for anti-virus software), it's perfect for you.

[edscoble]

I do find it suprising though they've made such a big deal about going to Intel and the major software folks like Adobe are saying "we don't care, we're not making another set of code for you"..

That suprises me and I'm sure is making some folks not buy the new apples.

Adobe won't release another CS2 just for the Intel Mac, as it's too late to do so, so you'll have to wait till CS3 to able to run Photoshop and such natively on the Intel, which probably be out by... ooh I think just by the end of 2006.

you're right, I wouldn't buy the new MacBook Pro, I have a brand sparking new PowerBook 15inch G4 on order, because I do not want to spend another £3,000 quid just to get my pro application to run natively.

(ok, the 1.67GHz G4 still bloody slow by today standard but to me, it'll be the bee's knee, because I'm so used to the slow G3 running at 400Mhz, the G4 will felt like warp 9.)

[nihilist]

Durr.  Why do these threads keep cropping up?  I think we've all established that people choose between a Mac and a generic x86 for the OS because of personal belief, nothing more.

We are done here.