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Author Topic: Drawing is fun. But need pointers.  (Read 4415 times)

Alegis

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« on: 16 May 2006, 09:12 »

So a few weeks ago I started doing doodles, and a bit of improving. I mostly draw out of boredom during classes, not because I think I have any skill whatsoever at all. I'm still struggling with proportions and faces (hair : | ). I also find myself drawing nothing but sad and crying ladies, must be some kind of inner expression.

Only scanned 1 I did today so far, but I don't really like the face that much and think it's too big. Or the elbow area of the right arm. Quick pointers, or appropriate tips/tricks how to improve certain elements ?
I never had any classes and my drawing really sucked until recently.



Many thanks; drawing is fun !
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_

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #1 on: 17 May 2006, 22:52 »

You're concerned about the proportions being out of whack, right? Best thing to do is to draw people from life. Take a sketchbook to a park or a mall or somewhere where people mill about, and do as many quick sketches of people as you can manage. Don't focus on likeness or detail, just work on nailing posture and proportion. The people will be milling about, so work quickly. It'll do you wonders.
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FoxFire™

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #2 on: 21 May 2006, 20:59 »

Besides what's already been suggested, I think you should also use pictures to practice off of, until you get the feeling and balance of posture and proportion of the body. For example, the body is a tad too flat, the breasts look...weird? The arms have no muscle and/or skeleton, and I think you made 'em too long. But it's okay, everyone starts out like this.
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Catfish_Man

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #3 on: 21 May 2006, 22:00 »

Here's something my art teacher said (very roughly paraphrased):

Quote from: Phil
A real human being has such an incredible amount of visual information that you will never ever get it all right. So since you're already going to be messing up a thousand different ways, don't worry about it! Just figure out what lets you have fun making and continue learning new things, because that's what'll keep you practicing. If you're not enjoying it, try something new. Get a bunch of charcoal and shoot it out of a crossbow at the paper. Crumple the paper up and sit on it in patterns after painting your butt. Whatever!
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Alegis

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #4 on: 21 May 2006, 22:37 »

Good stuff, thanks !
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quietnow

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #5 on: 22 May 2006, 00:06 »

i always draw in pen.
the permanence helps me to really SEE what i'm looking at, and not get caught up in the ability to always (kind of) undo.  also, i am left-handed and pencil smudges!!!!! RAAWR!

but i am a hack and my drawings are crap.
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Anyone who doesn't have a crush on Kari is doing it wrong.

_

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #6 on: 23 May 2006, 06:10 »

Quote from: Catfish_Man
Here's something my art teacher said (very roughly paraphrased):

Quote from: Phil
A real human being has such an incredible amount of visual information that you will never ever get it all right. So since you're already going to be messing up a thousand different ways, don't worry about it! Just figure out what lets you have fun making and continue learning new things, because that's what'll keep you practicing. If you're not enjoying it, try something new. Get a bunch of charcoal and shoot it out of a crossbow at the paper. Crumple the paper up and sit on it in patterns after painting your butt. Whatever!


Your art teacher is a fucking fool. You get to be a gifted artist with thousands of hours of practice and hard work, and what he's saying is, 'Man, that sounds too hard, why bother, anything can be art'. When he's wrong. That's a whiny bullshit excuse made by people too goddamned lazy to do any real fucking work. Not anything can be art. You're not going to learn a goddamned thing about technique, form, or anything by 'shooting charcoal out of a crossbow'

Jesus, think if this tool was around 500 years ago and told Michelangelo, 'Hey, buddy, don't work so hard trying to make those figures look human, and don't worry about proportion. It's too hard so don't worry about doing it right, let's just have fun and paint something with our butts'

Sorry, it just chaps my ass when someone is looking for genuine advice, and what they get is, 'work less hard'.
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Catfish_Man

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #7 on: 23 May 2006, 09:27 »

Quote from: _
Quote from: Catfish_Man
Here's something my art teacher said (very roughly paraphrased):

Quote from: Phil
A real human being has such an incredible amount of visual information that you will never ever get it all right. So since you're already going to be messing up a thousand different ways, don't worry about it! Just figure out what lets you have fun making and continue learning new things, because that's what'll keep you practicing. If you're not enjoying it, try something new. Get a bunch of charcoal and shoot it out of a crossbow at the paper. Crumple the paper up and sit on it in patterns after painting your butt. Whatever!


Your art teacher is a fucking fool. You get to be a gifted artist with thousands of hours of practice and hard work, and what he's saying is, 'Man, that sounds too hard, why bother, anything can be art'. When he's wrong. That's a whiny bullshit excuse made by people too goddamned lazy to do any real fucking work. Not anything can be art. You're not going to learn a goddamned thing about technique, form, or anything by 'shooting charcoal out of a crossbow'

Jesus, think if this tool was around 500 years ago and told Michelangelo, 'Hey, buddy, don't work so hard trying to make those figures look human, and don't worry about proportion. It's too hard so don't worry about doing it right, let's just have fun and paint something with our butts'

Sorry, it just chaps my ass when someone is looking for genuine advice, and what they get is, 'work less hard'.


Well.... let's see. I could listen to an architecture grad (hint: requires lots of hard work) who has been teaching art for 30+ years (requires lots of hard work), is widely acclaimed by most of the artists in the community as both a teacher and an artist, and has helped my work improve by approximately an order of magnitude in 6 months. Or I could listen to some random dude on the net.

Notice as well that what I wrote is not saying "work less hard". It's saying "work more, and do anything it takes to keep you interested enough to work". Attitudes like yours are what lead to artists that are incredibly technically skilled, but hate art. If you think you can put your heart and soul into something you hate (and it's gonna require that. All the technique in the world doesn't make you an artist, it makes you a good drawer/painter/etc...), you need to think again. Also, if you think that lots and lots of practice from observation isn't a good way to build up *technique* as well as observational skills, style, and emotional investment... you're wrong.

Michaelangelo's figures are not proportional, btw. If you ever get a chance, check out the hands on David in person.

In conclusion: fuck off and go create some artwork that means something, rather than just wanking about how photographic* your work does (or more likely does not) look.

*the role of photography in art is an interesting one. Pre-photography, art also had the requirement of recording events and people as accurately as possible. As photography has developed, art has become increasingly nonrepresentational and abstract (see Jackson Pollock for the classic example); attempting to convey meaning or emotion rather than literal copying of reality.

<edit>
Thought of something else I wanted to add: Seeing is an absolutely essential part of making a drawing. The human brain is *fantastic* at reducing an object to word-symbols; "oh there's an elbow, I know what an elbow looks like" <draw>. Practicing seeing what's really there, regardless of what ends up on the paper, is highly productive.
</edit>
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Alegis

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #8 on: 23 May 2006, 09:53 »

Well trying different stuff does add to fun, but for many the learning curve is 'realistic' drawing, or correctly proportioned cartoon characters which you won't get from your ass xD  (It would be sad if I did, and unable to do so with my hands).

The technique is real nice if you stop enjoying drawing, although it's not really appropriate in this case. Nevertheless something I will definitely do if I get fed up with the learning curve.
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Catfish_Man

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #9 on: 23 May 2006, 10:03 »

Quote from: Alegis
Well trying different stuff does add to fun, but for many the learning curve is 'realistic' drawing, or correctly proportioned cartoon characters which you won't get from your ass xD  (It would be sad if I did, and unable to do so with my hands).

The technique is real nice if you stop enjoying drawing, although it's not really appropriate in this case. Nevertheless something I will definitely do if I get fed up with the learning curve.


Oh sure, it happens to be that the way I like to work is fairly realistic charcoal drawings like at the bottom of my page. It's kinda meditative working on them.
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Justin

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #10 on: 23 May 2006, 13:18 »

i'm just gonna quote myself from an earlier drawing tips thread:
Quote from: Justin
i'm of the opinion that a foundation in realistic drawing is important no matter what style you're doing. learning proper proportions is important even in cartooning. So draw real people, maybe take some figure drawing classes, or just practice a whole helluva lot. you will improve.


also, "not everything can be art"? that's just silly. look at nearly anything a person has created, a curtain, a chair, a spool of thread, and know that some artistic sense has gone into the creation of all things. art is too subjective to be this or that. museums are popularity contests, there is no objective way to catagorize something as art. Duchamp proved that with his readymades. but i agree that that approach to art isn't really helpful to what i think alegis wants in his art.
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alki

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #11 on: 25 May 2006, 12:31 »

picasso could have drawn perfectly but he didn't. it was too meaningless for him but he had all the knowledge about proportions and stuff. this is the basis of visual arts, i think.
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Ghostwriter

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #12 on: 25 May 2006, 13:08 »

Quote from: _
Your art teacher is a fucking fool.


Wow, really?  I was gonna say his art teacher is fucking cool.

Catfish, your teacher had some great advice.  'Cause art is worthless unless it means something to you.  I am by no means a technically skilled artist, but my interest in expressing myself with my sketches and studying graphic design has made me much more interested in art over time.  Now I feel like I'm at the point where I'm genuinely interested in becoming more technically skilled, and I'm branching out.

Healthy art comes from healthy artists.  Drawing is pointless unless you want it.  Do whatever you can to keep yourself inspired and interested.  And expect to find inspiration in weird places!
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AceGun

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #13 on: 25 May 2006, 13:47 »

I've been studying art for years now, and I'd say do whatever the hell you want if you enjoy it.  If you want to become a successful modern artist, you're probably going to have to go to school for years and study the human figure until your eyes bleed, but if you just want to have fun (maybe draw a webcomic or something) then go ahead and do whatever.

In the end, it's all art, but if you care about making an impact in the world as an artist expect hours of practicing things you may not enjoy.  Not only do you need the foundation for you art, but also the credentials (i'm talking an art degree) to get the opportunities you may want.

Chris Burden, the guy who got someone to shoot him in an art gallery and crucified himself on a VW Beetle, went to school for visual arts and i'm sure he can draw the human body perfectly.  Being a successful artist means knowing about art of every form whether you make use of this knowledge in any tangible way or not.

Quote from: Catfish_Man
Michaelangelo's figures are not proportional, btw. If you ever get a chance, check out the hands on David in person.


I just wanted to point out that this "flaw" was created on purpose.  The statue was originally mounted a few stories up on the outer wall of a church.  When viewed from the ground, the hands (along with the enlarged torso) look completely accurate.  That Michelangelo knew his stuff.
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Alegis

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #14 on: 25 May 2006, 13:56 »

Just like the greek temples. The 'roof' etc is crooked, so it looks perfect straight.
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Catfish_Man

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #15 on: 25 May 2006, 15:25 »

Quote from: AceGun
I just wanted to point out that this "flaw" was created on purpose.  The statue was originally mounted a few stories up on the outer wall of a church.  When viewed from the ground, the hands (along with the enlarged torso) look completely accurate.  That Michelangelo knew his stuff.


Definitely. Not bashing Michelangelo, just pointing out that conveying the right impression sometimes requires fudging things.
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AceGun

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Drawing is fun. But need pointers.
« Reply #16 on: 26 May 2006, 08:48 »

That is very true.
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