Topic: The PC-building/hardware knowledge thread (Read 362280 times)

GuitarFreak · « **Reply #250 on:** 11 Jun 2009, 10:25 »

Yeah. Even my computer with the GTX280 and highly overclocked E8600 draws 350-400w at it's peak. SLI GTX280 draws about 550w or so.

MrBlu · « **Reply #251 on:** 11 Jun 2009, 23:24 »

Right. I'ma post a link a bit later about that though.

Guys, I think I need a new wireless card. I'm getting only problems now. When I do manage to connect, it's only for a few minutes, then I can't browse the net, my ping goes up in the 400s, and then eventually I can't do anything, but it says I'm connected to the house Wi-Fi. Well, now it wasn't connecting, but I'm not all too sure what it's doing atm (I'm downstairs, PC is upstairs).

EDIT::
Nevermind.

So, I spoke to my mechanic, and he's gonna do the work on my case.

GuitarFreak, since you're the resident Liquid expert, what do you think about a Swiftech Apogee GT, Hydor Seltz L30 pump, 2 custom made 140mm radiators, and a 3.5" bay res? I'm iffy about the res, and I'm kinda more partial to making my own res, since those are kinda expensive for a tube with fittings.

GuitarFreak · « **Reply #252 on:** 13 Jun 2009, 08:28 »

For a pump, I'd either get this http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=3112 or this http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=2539. Are you only going to be cooling the CPU?

MrBlu · « **Reply #253 on:** 13 Jun 2009, 14:07 »

Yeah, but the point is, I don't want to (can't) spend $45 or more on a pump.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #254 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 09:51 »

So, I'm going to be buying a new mobo. My old one had 240 pin DDR2 RAM slots, a PCI express x16 graphics card slot, so I don't think I'll need to change too much, but I do have a question. I'm currently running a 2.8ghz P4, but I might have a 3.4, it might be fried. If I get a motherboard made for core 2s, will I be able to run my old P4 processor in it?

Also, what are some good brands for motherboards? I've been looking at ASUS so far.

MrBlu · « **Reply #255 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 19:21 »

Don't buy anything labeled ASUS unless it's a monitor.

And your P4. I haven't seen a Socket 478 mobo with a PCI-E x 16 slot, so I assume that your P4 is a LGA 775 one, so yes, you'll still be able to use your P4 until you upgrade.

Brands I like are Gigabyte, XFX, Foxconn, DFI and Abit (not necessarily in that order). Intel makes some good motherboards also.

Dimmukane · « **Reply #256 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 19:26 »

I've had zero problems with any of the Asus stuff I've had (motherboards and DVD drives). Maybe you just got faulty parts?

MrBlu · « **Reply #257 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 19:30 »

You assume I took the chance? Firstly my friends get a 50% failure rate with them, and their stuff is too damned expensive. Brand markup, yes?

Reed · « **Reply #258 on:** 18 Jun 2009, 19:33 »

50% Failure rate? I've had a few of their boards, and I've never had a problem with them. I think Abit went under, so they're out. I've had pretty good luck with my foxconn board, and I know that Gigabyte has become really popular lately.

Out of curiosity, why are you upgrading your motherboard without the CPU?

ackblom12 · « **Reply #259 on:** 19 Jun 2009, 16:53 »

Wow, I've honestly never heard of anyone having any serious problems wtih Asus, or at least not anything out of the ordinary for PC components. Only companies I trust as much as them is probably Gigabit and DFI. Not sure if their reputations have gone downhill over the years though.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #260 on:** 19 Jun 2009, 17:08 »

Because I've got roughly $120 to do it with, after having had the thing out of commission since Halloween, knowing it was really bad since about december, and saving to fix it since then. I might have more money soon, since my birthday is coming, but I really want to get off this damn laptop, I get about 10FPS running source-based games on low settings. I'll probably double check with the guys at the store that I took it in to (wanted to make sure I wouldn't replace the wrong part), make sure that my CPU wasn't screwed up as well.

My old mobo was ASUS (I think, box is long gone, but the guy who installed it said it would be an ASUS), so maybe it is a good idea if I don't get that for my replacement. I had a lot of trouble with this computer, though at least some of it was my fault.

When it says FSB on the description of the motherboard, that needs to match the FSB speed on the processors, right? Looks like I will need to get one that has a good range, my current processors are both 800mhz FSB with 1mb cache, if I get an upgrade, it will probably be much faster. I had planned on upgrading the processor soon anyway, before it died. I was able to run anything I tried, but I figured that when the minimum requirements of some games I was running were higher than my processor's listed speed, it would be a good time to upgrade.

How about this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128380 No SLI capabilities, but I'm more likely to buy a better card than try to SLI a pair of 7900GSes. Would also mean I could afford a processor sooner than most boards. Would that board be badly outdated any time soon?

Processor-wise, have games gotten over the issues with dual-core processors now? I remember a couple of years ago, some games had a lot of trouble with people moving like they were speedhacking, twice or three times as fast, if they had dual-core processors, and most games would only make good use of one anyway.

MrBlu · « **Reply #261 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 02:14 »

o_o

Uhh, we've reached the point where multi-core processing works.

And yeah, that's the motherboard I own. Pretty nice thing, if you ask me. Nice and pretty BIOS and it's forgiving of End-User screwups (like doing 333 x 10.5 on stock voltages on a E7400 >_>).

Nodaisho · « **Reply #262 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 15:59 »

Wasn't just asking if it worked, I was asking if it was worth it over a single core processor with another .8-1 ghz rating.

Is it just me, or are any Intel CPUs that aren't really expensive 800mhz FSB with a 1mb cache?

MrBlu · « **Reply #263 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 20:29 »

Dual core is always better than Single core. Go for the Dual core. Plus, the Pentium sucks.

And yes, the cheaper ones are kinda only good for general purpose. The best cheap LGA 775 CPU is probably the E5200 for about $75.

Reed · « **Reply #264 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 23:38 »

I know my opinion is not exactly shared around here, but I really don't see the point of getting a new LGA 775 CPU and motherboard. At this point you would be much better off getting one of AMD's AM3 Athlon X2's.

est · « **Reply #265 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 01:42 »

You act like the 775 is a dying platform, but it is going to be around for a while yet. Intel are shit-canning the LGA1366 socket in favour of another that hasn't been released yet, so it'll take a while to gain traction. Intel cpus are still superior to AMD's for the time being, so why wouldn't someone choose a 775 board?

MrBlu · « **Reply #266 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 11:17 »

To get a AM3 X2, you'd have to spend $100 on the CPU, another $100 on the motherboard, and ANOTHER $100 on decent DDR3 RAM to gain a marginal performance increase over a $75 LGA 775 board, a $120 CPU, and about $30 to $40 on some DDR2 RAM.

Pass.

Reed · « **Reply #267 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 18:23 »

Quote from: est on 21 Jun 2009, 01:42

You act like the 775 is a dying platform, but it is going to be around for a while yet. Intel are shit-canning the LGA1366 socket in favour of another that hasn't been released yet, so it'll take a while to gain traction. Intel cpus are still superior to AMD's for the time being, so why wouldn't someone choose a 775 board?

LGA 1156 is coming out later this year. I really doubt that they will release another batch of LGA 775 CPU's. There are phenom II's that match C2D and C2Q's at every price point except for the extreme editions. AM3 will be around for the next few years, with plenty more phenom II's in the pipleine.

And Mr. Blu, you can get a gigabyte AM3 for about $80, so there really isn't much of a price difference considering the upgrade potential for an AM3 board compared to an LGA 775

Nodaisho · « **Reply #268 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 20:55 »

. <--- This discussion

<--- My head.

Looks like I'll just be getting a motherboard, then, and saving for a processor (unless it would be better to get 3 gigs RAM and use a 3.4ghz/1mb/800FSB P4 processor for even longer). Would the one I linked be a good choice, or is there something else I should get that will last longer before obsolescence?

est · « **Reply #269 on:** 21 Jun 2009, 23:07 »

btw, I was incorrect when I said earlier that the LGA1366 was being nixed. It's the current batch of i7's that are being nixed. The 1156 and 1366 sockets are gonna be the things used by the upcoming i3, i5 and future i7s later this year.

I guess that my main problem is that I don't understand why anyone would use AMD cpus at the moment. I know someone's got to buy them or else we'll wind up with Intel in an even more dominant position, but that person is not gonna be me.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #270 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 23:17 »

Looking again, I found a couple of Open Box motherboards that seem like a good deal. Are either of these worth the extra money if I'm looking at making something that won't be amazing performance, but will have potential for keeping up to speed for a while with occasional upgrades? If so, which would be better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128364R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358R

Reed · « **Reply #271 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 06:26 »

The motherboard really has little to do with speed. The only difference in these motherboards is that the GA-EP45C-UD3R has an extra PCIe x16 slots. They all use the same socket type, so they will all accept the same processors. You most likely won't notice any difference between the P43 and the P45. All three boards have the exact same upgrade potential, with the exception of the GA-EP45C-UD3R allowing for crossfire (waste of money unless you're running a 30" monitor). The additional risk of getting an open box motherboard is just too much for what little those have to offer you.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #272 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 18:48 »

Okay, I guess I'll get the one I had linked previously. So not being able to use DDR3 won't be an issue?

Reed · « **Reply #273 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 19:03 »

Not with a core 2. Is this mainly for gaming? If it is you probably wouldn't see any difference between DDR2 and DDR3

Nodaisho · « **Reply #274 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 19:26 »

Okay, thanks. Yeah, this will mostly be for gaming, even though I will probably be using it for writing papers as well. Not going to be using it to host a server or anything, if that is what you are talking about.

Reed · « **Reply #275 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 19:32 »

Yeah, for your purposes DDR3 would definitely be a waste of money.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #276 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 20:27 »

Okay. I just wanted to make sure that my DDR2 ram wasn't going to become obsolete in a year or two, leading to me needing to get a new motherboard that supported DDR3.

edit: I should probably get some new thermal paste as well, is there much difference between brands? I will probably just get the smallest amount I can, since I just need it for this one processor.

Reed · « **Reply #277 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 21:36 »

If you're getting a Core 2 CPU, then there is absolutely no point. If you were to get an AMD AM3 CPU or one of Intel's Nehalem chips (most likely way out of your price range), then you would want to/have to get DDR3. All Core 2's are and will be compatable with DDR2 (technically the CPU isn't compatible with anything, the motherboard determines memory compatability for the Core2's. AMD CPU's and the Nehalem chips differ in that the memory controller is incorporated in the CPU itself).

MrBlu · « **Reply #278 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 00:35 »

Well you sound like you're using it for the same purposes as I.

I'm running that Gigabyte mobo, an E7400, and an HD 4850. And for the price, it's pretty good and it does everything I want it to (yes, Crysis on DX10 max w/ no AA also, but on a low-ish res also).

And I suggest getting either 2x1GB or 2x2 GB of RAM. You want to get the benefit of the dual channels. I'm on some OCZ HPC Reaper 2x1GB DDR2 1150 (discontinued), @ 1200Mhz, and at this speed, I wouldn't even bother with DDR3. Especially since a lot of RAM modules can easily OC to 1200 or 1333Mhz (not with as tight timings as mine tho'). Until DDR3 prices hit low enough that one can get good 3x2GB DDR3 for about $60, DDR2 will still be worth it, especially since the price for DDR2 is low and getting lower.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #279 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 01:41 »

What do you mean, dual channels? I have been planning to get another couple of gigabytes of RAM for a while, to bump me up to 3. Is there something in particular I should be looking for when I get that? I was planning on getting Corsair, since I have heard that recommended by most people. Also, if I have a SLJ8 (assuming it is better than the SL8PP) processor currently, would I want to put priority on getting to 3 gigs of RAM or on getting a new processor? I could get the RAM along with the mobo if it makes a difference. That would put me at 2x512 and 2x1GB.

est · « **Reply #280 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 02:24 »

So hang a minute. Is the motherboard is fried or something? I am not sure if I am missing out on some information here, but unless the motherboard is dead I'm not sure why you're not upgrading from a P4 to a Core2duo or quad instead of upgrading the motherboard. You mention the cpu maybe being fried, but I can't see where you say what the problem is.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #281 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:32 »

Sorry, thought I had said it already. My motherboard died, I'm not sure how, but it happened in about 10 minutes between turning the thing off, moving it into a different room, and turning it on again. I took it in to the shop to make sure, since I didn't want to end up spending money on the wrong part, and they said it was the motherboard, but I don't think they were expecting me to try to fix it myself, so I'm not sure if they might have forgotten to mention that it took the CPU with it.

Llewellian · « **Reply #282 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:41 »

I dont know if there are sales like those you can get here @ Nodaisho's Part of the world, but if so, i would strongly suggest to go for one of those "Upgrade your PC" Kits. New Mobo+fancy new chip+decent Sellout-RAM-Sticks. Most often, such "Bundles" are sold to lower prices than everything together alone, most often at the same price of the new chip alone... and you know that everything fits more or less together.

I paid here in Germany at Conrad (the german equivalent to Radioshack) for a socalled "upgrade bundle" containing 1 Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 GHz Socket 775 1333 FSB, 2x2 Corsair DDR2 1066 Mhz Fsb Ram and a Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P Mobo about 210 EUR.

With that... i am fixed up for the "next years" (since i never run very hardwarehungry games or progrs). And the good thing on it is: Newer RAM and things to upgrade further are cheaper than the old ones. Current prices here for outdated DDR Sticks are higher than the DDR3 ones because no one buys them anymore... same for your Grafix-Hardware. AGP costs more than PCI-E.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #283 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:49 »

It isn't that I am worried about my motherboard frying if I put in a new processor, I already know my motherboard is dead, but in the process of finding out what was wrong with it, I found that the processor from the old family computer that I had lying around was actually faster than the one I had before. So I was asking to make sure I wouldn't buy a motherboard with the wrong kind of socket, then trying to find what I would want to get to make sure it wouldn't go obsolete quickly.

I've already got a PCI-E card (two, actually), and everyone else has been saying that DDR2 isn't going to become obsolete, so DDR3 would be a waste of money for my purposes. On Newegg, DDR3 is more expensive, though it still doesn't cost much for a couple of gigs.

Reed · « **Reply #284 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 09:11 »

It's not that DDR2 isn't going to become obsolete, it's that there is no point in getting DDR3 for an LGA775 chip. There is very little noticeable difference between the two for playing games right now, and it will just wind up costing you more than you need to spend. Right now the amount of RAM you have will make a much bigger difference in games than the type of RAM. Assuming you have at least 2Gb of RAM the graphics card will make the biggest difference in game performance, followed by CPU. As I said before, DDR3 is only worth it if you are stepping up to Intel's nehalem or AMD's AM3 platforms (also, they don't support DDR2, so you have to upgrade).

Nodaisho · « **Reply #285 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 09:18 »

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

Now I'm looking at one of the CPU/motherboard deals Newegg has, does this look like a good deal? The processor looks like a good upgrade (the processor that was in this computer previously was a 2.8 single core, and only had 800mhz FSB), and the board doesn't look like it has any serious problems.

Reed · « **Reply #286 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 09:49 »

That's a pretty good deal. The E6300 is a pretty good processor for its price range. The motherboard has an IGP, which it sounds like you won't need, but there aren't any motherboards without it for cheaper. One thing to keep in mind is that it is a microATX board, so double check that your case has the proper risers for it.

Llewellian · « **Reply #287 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 13:34 »

Yupp, pretty nice deal. Gigabyte Mobos are really nice, i've got one myself. They dont make problems, good drivers and such. And the MoBo from that offer can take a wide range of CPUs if you come across a newer generation one cheap...

See the list...

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=3024

And with 2 Dual Channel DDR2 800 Mhz Slots (faster ones will be automatically downgraded)... buying good RAM is cheap too. No need for DDR3.. not that of a difference that it would be a good reason to blast Money for it...

Pre-Vista User: No need for more than 2 Gig, XP-32Bit is not able to use more (it can show it, but progs cannot use more, the rest will be set into the page/swapfile on HD). Linux/Vista/Windows7 User: 2 x 2Gb Dual Channel and you are set ;o).

Nodaisho · « **Reply #288 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 13:53 »

I'm pretty sure that 32-bit architecture can use a bit upwards of 3 gigs (I should know exactly, but I don't), some people figure you might as well get 4 gigs, round up rather than rounding down to get that last extra bit of speed. However, 3 gigs is three times as many as I have used for years, so I'm fine with that.

Oh, I just saw that it only has two RAM slots. Still cheaper to go with that than to get a decent processor separately. So, for memory, I'm thinking I'll save a bit more and get this as soon as I can. 4 gigs means it will be using as much as it can, and it is only $10 more than the 2 gigs, before shipping, which is free for the 4 gigs.

Llewellian · « **Reply #289 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 14:27 »

Yup, good choice on the RAM.

If you have 4gb and cannot make use of it now, it does not matter. If you get it for the same price than 2 gb, take it - this will come in handy later when you change your operating system in a year or two. XP does not mind 4gb, it just does not make use of it. A 32 bit system is only able to adress 2^31 bit... which translates to ~ 2GB. Easy as that.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #290 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 16:54 »

Actually, it translates to ~3.1 gb, maybe after you subtract all of the other stuff that is running, you only get 2 GB, but a 32 bit system will accept more than 2 gigs.

How has Microsoft's most recent attempt at a 64 bit OS gone? I remember hearing that it really didn't like games, but that was probably more than a year ago, I haven't really been paying attention, as I saw no need or reason to "upgrade" to vista.

Reed · « **Reply #291 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 17:16 »

I have vista 64-bit, and I really haven't had any problems with it. The compatability mode works pretty well, unless you're using some really old games. You might not want to upgrade just because Windows 7 is coming out so soon and I have heard really great things about it. If they are still offering RC licenses you could always install that until they release the full version.

The deal with RAM is that if you have 32-bit you get 4Gb max, but that includes all RAM in your system (typically your graphics card's RAM is the biggest detractor from that). So, most systems will only show ~3.1-3.4 Gb of RAM if you haven't upgraded to 64-bit.

est · « **Reply #292 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 17:45 »

That bundle looks pretty good! You get a really decent cpu and a relatively good motherboard for not much money at all. I am pretty jealous of the kind of prices you guys get

Anyway, I agree with Reed on the 64bit thing. I'm running 64bit Vista on my main pc and it's done just fine with Office, Photoshop, various games, virtual pc stuff, etc. I think that the only thing you have to really watch out for these days is super-old hardware not being compatible, but you get a bit of that with 32bit Vista anyway. As he said though, Win 7 is out later this year (September/October?) so you might want to think about waiting for that if you already have & like XP.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #293 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 18:56 »

Okay. I had heard a lot of complaints about the 64 bit version when it was still relatively new, being crazy unstable with games. I wasn't planning on upgrading to vista, anyway. I have been using it since it came installed on my laptop, and I still like XP better. With 7 coming out, there isn't any point anyway.

Est, if it makes you feel better, I feel pity for you aussies pretty regularly.

edit: Well, put the order through, hopefully it ships tomorrow, and gets here saturday. I ordered the CPU/Mobo combo and a thing of thermal paste, since I wasn't sure what came with the processor, and it was only $5. With any luck, shortly after it arrives, I will have my computer back, and be able to play games with better than 10 FPS. Of course, it is far more likely that it will take me a couple of weeks to put back together, but lets not think of that.

MrBlu · « **Reply #294 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 00:52 »

You may want to look into buying a new video card soon. Intel's onboard won't do you very well.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #295 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 00:55 »

I've got a 7900GS here somewhere, and an ATI X700 for back-up. The 700 is pretty badly outdated, but it can run source games, at least. Of course, source scales pretty well.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #296 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 00:46 »

Whelp.

My computer temporarily shit the bed the other night so I decided it was finally time to replace my shitty case with something that had good airflow. Was going to be doing it in October when I built my new PC anyways, but figured i should get it done and out of the way. Ended up with the Antec 900.

Jesus shitting Christ that is a 200mm fan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ackblom12/STA72252.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ackblom12/STA72254.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ackblom12/STA72255.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ackblom12/STA72256.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/ackblom12/STA72257.jpg

I ordered 2 more 120mm fans to fill out it's fan slots, which will make 4 120mm fans and 1 200mm fan. I'll be transferring everything over this weekend and we'll see how it works.

MrBlu · « **Reply #297 on:** 27 Jun 2009, 03:25 »

Good case.

EVERY FREAKING ANGLE OF THAT CASE WILL DAMAGE YOUR FINGERS.

The fan? Blends them.
The side panels? Slices right through.
Drop it on a body part? Get the hacksaw.

That's how you know it's a damn good case.

Nodaisho · « **Reply #298 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 17:05 »

Got my parts today. I finish uninstalling the dead motherboard, take the new one out of the box, and FFFFFFFF- I didn't have a micro-ATX board. I remembered someone saying that it was, apparently they were mistaken. Thankfully, though, the case has risers for micro-ATX as well as whatever the hell my other one was. So now a good bit of the case is just wasted space, but it works. Finished putting it together, and it boots just fine. Now I need to figure out where I stored my graphics card, so I'm not stuck using my old X700. Thanks for the help, everyone.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #299 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 17:10 »

Man, this case is so good, but yes, I swear it had a personal agenda gainst my hands. I can't wait to fill it with proper parts.

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Author Topic: The PC-building/hardware knowledge thread (Read 362280 times)

ackblom12

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