THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 27 Apr 2024, 20:45
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: I'm really ashamed to admit this  (Read 7516 times)

pat101

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 814
    • A Minor Mass
I'm really ashamed to admit this
« on: 16 Nov 2006, 17:51 »

But I know nothing about Frank Zappa. Can someone please point me in the proper direction?

Valrus

  • I'm Randy! I'm eternal!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 654
  • moo hoo ha ha
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #1 on: 16 Nov 2006, 18:23 »

Don't be ashamed! I don't know anything about him either, and I...

...well...

ok, you should probably be ashamed.
Logged
Quote from: Johnny C
Whatever you give up for Lent, it better not be your day job.

Orbert

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 870
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #2 on: 16 Nov 2006, 19:37 »

Frank Zappa, solo and with his band The Mothers (aka The Mothers of Invention) recorded and released over 60 albums. He recorded literally every live performance since the early 70's, and his basement was an archive. This is why "new" live albums are coming out more than ten years after his death. The set list changed every night, and there are several multi-disc live albums from the same tours out there with all different songs. He seems to be most commonly thought of as a writer of funny, often sexist or "dirty" songs, but that has hopefully faded in recent years since there's so much more offensive stuff out there. It was never his intention to offend, as some contend, but only to entertain. His stance, as with most artists, was that it was for people who liked that kind of thing, and if you don't, don't listen to it, but also don't complain about it or try to stop it, because obviously a lot of people do like it.

Folks who know more about his work also know that he wrote a lot of instrumental music, jazz, R&B, and neo-Classical. He was a fierce opponent of labelling and censorship of popular music, and one of his favorite examples of the idiocy of the system was that one of his instrumental jazz albums got the "Warning: Mature Lyrics and Content" label stuck on it. Someone obviously just put it on because it was a Zappa album.

He wrote music that he wanted to hear, regardless of how easy or difficult it was to actually play. He tended to surround himself with top-shelf musicians, because they were the only ones capable of playing his complex and challenging music. His music is often off the wall, considered rather boring and pointless by some, experimental and brilliant by others. I have over 40 albums (CDs, records, whatever) of his work, and some of it is brilliant, and some of it I find boring and pointless. Toward the end of his life, his health prevented him from touring (he died of cancer in the early 90's), so he composed and recorded primarly on the Synclavier, an early keyboard-computer-synthesizer capable of basically playing anything you can write. He admitted that while it was gratifying to actually hear his compositions played perfectly, he discovered that "perfect" was overrated. He preferred the interaction of playing with a live band and having his music played by actual musicians.

One recommended starting point would be his first solo album, "Hot Rats". It is mostly instrumental, with mostly "normal" instrumentation and jazzy, R&B arrangements. There is one "funny" song, and a few of the tracks get a bit experimental, but I consider the whole thing pretty good, and consistent.

Another good starter would be "Zappa/Mothers Live: Roxy & Elsewhere". Absolutely fantastic musicianship, killer horn section, and lots of funny songs. A great audience-participation track (he was also known for this part of his show) where he brings people up to try and dance to the weird stuff they play. It's funnier than it sounds.

Fans of neoClassical might try "The Yellow Shark" performed by The Ensemble Modern. It's different. I can't say I much like it, but I'll admit that the playing and arrangements are awesome. It's not my thing, but a lot of people really love it.

Electronica folks might check out "Jazz from Hell", one of his Synclavier albums. Music performed untouched by human hands. It's pretty mind-blowing. I like it, but can only handle it in small doses. A couple tracks at a time, and I feel like I need a cigarette (and I don't even smoke).
Logged
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

Dimmukane

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,683
  • juicer
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #3 on: 17 Nov 2006, 00:01 »

His son is supposed to be directing the Fraggle Rock movie. 
Logged
Quote from: Johnny C
all clothes reflect identity constructs, destroy these constructs by shedding your clothes and sending pictures of the process to the e-mail address linked under my avatar

E. Spaceman

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,630
  • The Sonics The Sonics The Sonics The Sonics
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #4 on: 17 Nov 2006, 01:51 »

I have endless love for Frank Zappa, but being frank, the only two albums you need to get are Freak Out and Joe's Garage.
Logged
Quote
[20:29] Quietus: Haha oh shit Morbid Anal Fog
[20:29] Quietus: I had forgotten about them

Misereatur

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,839
  • Quicksand my butt
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #5 on: 17 Nov 2006, 02:01 »

Where's Kai when you need him?
Logged
FREE JAZZ ISN'T FREE!

I am a music republican.

Spinless

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #6 on: 17 Nov 2006, 02:47 »

I keep hearing that, but I can't find ANY reliable sources. Any interviews/videos I've seen of him, he comes across as really open minded. I wouldn't expect something so stupid of him.

Not that you're not a reliable source.
Logged

Orbert

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 870
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #7 on: 17 Nov 2006, 05:02 »

Ironically, Frank Zappa was also a misogynist.

Bullshit. People say that, but there's no proof anywhere. There are no lyrics in his songs that indicate a misogynistic attitude, and there are no quotes of him saying anything misogynistic.

Furthermore, I'll go on record to the effect that his music was shit.

Well that explains it. The guy has hundreds of hours of music out in countless genres, but you feel qualified to state categorically that it was shit.

You may be a lifer around here, and I'm just the new guy, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Logged
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

!!!CPAOI!!!

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #8 on: 17 Nov 2006, 05:17 »

Wow.  For a second there, I thought you might be a worthwhile contributor to this forum.  But... it turns out you're just a self-important cocksucker.  It's kind of unfortunate too, because you seem to know a lot about music.
Logged

Johnny C

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,483
  • i wanna be yr slide dog
    • I AM A WHORE FOR MY OWN MUSIC
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #9 on: 17 Nov 2006, 05:18 »

I like tommy's method, actually. You prove to me that he wasn't a misogynist.

And while you're at it, prove to me that Billie Joe Armstrong doesn't hate gays. I bet you can't do it.
Logged
[02:12] yuniorpocalypse: let's talk about girls
[02:12] Thug In Kitchen: nooo

Johnny C

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,483
  • i wanna be yr slide dog
    • I AM A WHORE FOR MY OWN MUSIC
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #10 on: 17 Nov 2006, 05:41 »

Has Billie Joe Armstrong ever used that term? Because if so you're only lending credibility to my claims.
Logged
[02:12] yuniorpocalypse: let's talk about girls
[02:12] Thug In Kitchen: nooo

pat101

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 814
    • A Minor Mass
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #11 on: 17 Nov 2006, 10:05 »

well thank you for the musical help, don't really care if tommy is a cocksucker or not it's not really my place, also in addition to not knowing anything about Frank Zappa I'm in the same boat with Captain Beefheart. Any album recommendations?

Orbert

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 870
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #12 on: 17 Nov 2006, 10:24 »

I like tommy's method, actually. You prove to me that he wasn't a misogynist.

And while you're at it, prove to me that Billie Joe Armstrong doesn't hate gays. I bet you can't do it.

So anyone can just label somebody a misogynist, and it has to be disproved? I suppose if I dug around long enough, I could come up with a quote by Zappa saying "I am not a misogynist" in response to that often-applied but never-substantiated label. But it would prove nothing. People would just say "Well of course he says that." I honestly don't understand why people just label him a misogynist, without anything to back it up.

So I can't disprove it any more than you can prove it. I guess between that and the fact that I have no idea who Billie Joe Armstrong is, I lose.

Wow. ?For a second there, I thought you might be a worthwhile contributor to this forum. ?But... it turns out you're just a self-important cocksucker. ?It's kind of unfortunate too, because you seem to know a lot about music.

The original poster wanted to know about Zappa. I gave him some direction. I thought that was the idea here. Then someone else comes in, slanders the guy, and says everything he did was shit. How is that supposed to help? Does that contribute anything positive to the conversation? So yeah, I came down on him.

To be honest, whether or not I suck cock isn't really relevant, but I'm probably guilty of the "self-important" label. Clearly, I would not be a worthwhile contributor to this forum. Because, you know, informed answers aren't nearly as good as slander and opinions being passed off as fact.
Logged
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

BeoPuppy

  • ASDFSFAALYG8A@*& ^$%O
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,679
  • Scare a moose, will you do the fandango?
    • Me.
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #13 on: 17 Nov 2006, 12:03 »

Besides that ... everyone here can cheerfully follow the 'self-important' banner. It's practically a pre-requisite to join.
Logged
My Art.
I was into Stumpy and the Cuntfarts before they sold out.

öde

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,633
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #14 on: 17 Nov 2006, 15:41 »

Drama in the forums.

The dress is rumpled.

My shoes are scuffed.

This is not a drill!
Logged

Charming Liar

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #15 on: 17 Nov 2006, 16:27 »

I think my guiltiest pleasure involving music was listening to, and thoroughly enjoying the band "Smile.dk" ...although it's definitely what one might call a chick band. No disparagement intended to female bands, but a lot of Smile.dk's songs are about them pining away for some guy who is apparently just fuckin' awesome in every conceivable way. I'm certain they have other songs, about other things, but I never sought those out.

Listening to girls sing "Hey Mr. Wonderful, oh your so incredible" was, for a totally non-egotistical reason (this is a lie,) very satisfying for me.

EDIT: Har. I posted this in the wrong thread! Now I can be even more ashamed. Marvelous.
...I'm going to bed.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2006, 16:31 by Charming Liar »
Logged

!!!CPAOI!!!

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #16 on: 17 Nov 2006, 16:56 »

Quote
The original poster wanted to know about Zappa. I gave him some direction. I thought that was the idea here. Then someone else comes in, slanders the guy, and says everything he did was shit. How is that supposed to help? Does that contribute anything positive to the conversation? So yeah, I came down on him.

To be honest, whether or not I suck cock isn't really relevant, but I'm probably guilty of the "self-important" label. Clearly, I would not be a worthwhile contributor to this forum. Because, you know, informed answers aren't nearly as good as slander and opinions being passed off as fact.

My angry post was in no way directed at you mate, my beef was with Tommy.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2006, 17:03 by !!!CPAOI!!! »
Logged

supersheep

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,263
  • you'll have to speak up, i'm a fish and lack ears
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #17 on: 17 Nov 2006, 18:17 »

Jeeze guys, chill out and stuff. Music is subjective, not objective. For example, I will go on record as saying that I think Broken Social Scene are quite mediocre, even though they are regularly hailed as OMG BEST INDIE BAND EVAR. My opinion is mine, and just because lots of people like BSS doesn't mean I will. So, if tommy thinks that Zappa is shit, he is entirely entitled to that opinion. There is no need to get all riled up and go apeshit on him.
Logged
DJ Weight Problem: if you think semantics isn't that important maybe you should just can dig four banana nine jenkins razor blade dinosaur

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,130
  • Tall. Beets.
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #18 on: 17 Nov 2006, 20:24 »

Zappa is shit, The Beatles were dicks, Mick Jagger was gay, Keith Richards smoked one joint but that's it I swear, The Who don't write their own songs, David Bowie's an asshole, Eric Clapton beats his wife, Neil Young has sex with little girls, The Monkees were genii and Ricky Martin is the future of music.

Oh, and you're all cocksuckers.
Logged
In the end, the thing people will remember is kindness.

!!!CPAOI!!!

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #19 on: 17 Nov 2006, 21:00 »

Nice
Logged

Orbert

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 870
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #20 on: 18 Nov 2006, 01:57 »

My angry post was in no way directed at you mate, my beef was with Tommy.

Oh. Um, sorry.

Seriously, I'm definitely not getting off on the right foot here. I should lurk a while longer and pick up the vibe first, before jumping in and making an ass of myself. This place is weird.
Logged
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

BeoPuppy

  • ASDFSFAALYG8A@*& ^$%O
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,679
  • Scare a moose, will you do the fandango?
    • Me.
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #21 on: 18 Nov 2006, 02:19 »

Nah, jump right in. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
Logged
My Art.
I was into Stumpy and the Cuntfarts before they sold out.

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,130
  • Tall. Beets.
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #22 on: 18 Nov 2006, 03:45 »

My angry post was in no way directed at you mate, my beef was with Tommy.

Oh. Um, sorry.

Seriously, I'm definitely not getting off on the right foot here. I should lurk a while longer and pick up the vibe first, before jumping in and making an ass of myself. This place is weird.

Yeah man. Fuck you, and shit.
Logged
In the end, the thing people will remember is kindness.

The Launcher

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #23 on: 18 Nov 2006, 07:52 »

well thank you for the musical help, don't really care if tommy is a cocksucker or not it's not really my place, also in addition to not knowing anything about Frank Zappa I'm in the same boat with Captain Beefheart. Any album recommendations?


Everyone says "Trout Mask Replica", but "Safe As Milk" wasn't bad either. You should pretty much listen to whatever you can find, as long as it isn't from "Blue Jeans and Moonbeams" or "Unconditionally Guaranteed". Those two albums are the Captain Beefheart albums you'd buy your grandma, if you hated her.
Logged

Kai

  • ASDFSFAALYG8A@*& ^$%O
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,847
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #24 on: 18 Nov 2006, 08:14 »

I would pretty much commit high treason for an actual copy of "Lick My Decals Off Baby"

that being said, I listen to Trout Mask Replica and Doc At the Radar Station most.
Logged
but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

The Launcher

  • Guest
Re: I'm really ashamed to admit this
« Reply #25 on: 18 Nov 2006, 08:38 »

I would pretty much commit high treason for an actual copy of "Lick My Decals Off Baby"

Apart from the "Grow Fins" box set, this is pretty much the only album I don't own.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up