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Author Topic: Early 20th Century Classical  (Read 8588 times)

brew

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Early 20th Century Classical
« on: 06 Jan 2007, 04:55 »

Please give me some recommendations for early 20th century classical music, preferably specific pieces (or specific recordings if you want to go to that) rather than just composers.
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Misereatur

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #1 on: 06 Jan 2007, 05:32 »

My personal favorite is Arnold Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw".

I'd recommend more but I dont know if youre looking for Avant Grade or Neo-Classic or somthing totally different. Can you be more specific?

Otherwise, use All Music Guide I guess.
« Last Edit: 06 Jan 2007, 05:35 by Misereatur »
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #2 on: 06 Jan 2007, 05:47 »

I am a very big fan of Dmitri Shostakovich's 4th Symphony...in fact, reading this thread inspired to to throw that onto my computer.  I have a tendency to gravitate towards the early 20th century Russian composers whenever I listen to music that would fall into the "classical" category.  I also heartily enjoy Igor Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite" and "The Rites Of Spring"
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #3 on: 06 Jan 2007, 05:55 »

Sean Sibelius - Finlandia

That really captures the feeling of the Winter war. When Finland stood alone for them selves against the Soviet Union.
Then again in the Continuanition war. And against the Germans in the Lapland war. That makes three wars for Finland during 2nd world war and we weren't occupied! Finland has been independent from year 1917!
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Misereatur

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #4 on: 06 Jan 2007, 05:57 »

Quote from: 10101110
I am a very big fan of Dmitri Shostakovich's 4th Symphony...in fact, reading this thread inspired to to throw that onto my computer.  I have a tendency to gravitate towards the early 20th century Russian composers whenever I listen to music that would fall into the "classical" category.  I also heartily enjoy Igor Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite" and "The Rites Of Spring"

Shostakovich's 5th Symphony (d moll) is really great, but I dont really care for Soviet composers. Earlier Russian composers like Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky are more my style (I even like a bit of Scriabin).
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Johnny C

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #5 on: 06 Jan 2007, 07:46 »

A lot of Stravinsky's stuff is really great.

Does Bartok count as early 20th Century? He does, right? Every piano student over the age of ten knows about Bartok, but still, he's pretty decent.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #6 on: 06 Jan 2007, 15:12 »

Orff!
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brew

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #7 on: 09 Jan 2007, 02:45 »

My personal favorite is Arnold Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw".

I'd recommend more but I dont know if youre looking for Avant Grade or Neo-Classic or somthing totally different. Can you be more specific?

Could be either of those, or music that doesn't qualify as either.  The only requirement is that it was composed in the early 20th century.


Quote
Otherwise, use All Music Guide I guess.

They tend not to be very good for classical stuff, both from what I've heard from more knowledgable people and noticed myself.  I mean, they have "minimalism" listed as one of John Cage's styles, and tend to lump everything "avant-garde" into one category even if they may be polar opposites of one another.  Naturally, I'm going to look up everything listed in this thread on allmusic.com anyways, but I'd rather hear suggestions from individual people.


A lot of Stravinsky's stuff is really great.

Which pieces?  I've heard Rite of Spring and Firebird but not much from his other material.  From what I've read, he composed both 12-tone and neo-classical material also... which are the highlights from those eras?


Quote
Does Bartok count as early 20th Century? He does, right? Every piano student over the age of ten knows about Bartok, but still, he's pretty decent.

Which pieces?
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NiMRoD420

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #8 on: 09 Jan 2007, 03:24 »

In addition to everything else mentioned (Particularly Schoenburg, Rachmaninoff, and Stravinsky), anything by Tchaichovsky. Everyone knows "The Nutcracker" but all of his work that I've heard was good.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #9 on: 09 Jan 2007, 08:53 »

Umm..I don't see anything wrong with listing minimalism as one of John Cage's styles. He used it quite frequently...was one of the original minimalists.

For Stravinsky, from the neoclassical period, try "The Soldier's Tale", which is beautiful. From his twelvetone time, try "Agon".(The most tonal twelve tone music you shall ever hear.)

Try some pieces by less known composers, like George Antheil's "Ballet Mechanique". Some Satie is a must (Everything is good.) And get some Ives..like his 2nd or 4th symphony.

You could also try Henry Cowell's music. He's good, and invented most of the techniques that were used in the 20th century.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #10 on: 09 Jan 2007, 09:18 »

Quote
Which [Bart?k] pieces?

My favorite piece of classical music is Bart?k's "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta."
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brew

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #11 on: 10 Jan 2007, 06:49 »

Umm..I don't see anything wrong with listing minimalism as one of John Cage's styles. He used it quite frequently...was one of the original minimalists.

Huh?  I don't think Cage ever did anything minimalist and was really separate from that movement, though he may have influenced some minimalist composers.  AMG is not the only one I've seen refer to Cage as a minimalist, but pretty much everything I've read from people who actually listen to Cage says it's a misconception.  And certainly there's a big difference between Cage and the minimalists both conceptually and in aural style.


Quote
For Stravinsky, from the neoclassical period, try "The Soldier's Tale", which is beautiful. From his twelvetone time, try "Agon".(The most tonal twelve tone music you shall ever hear.)

Try some pieces by less known composers, like George Antheil's "Ballet Mechanique". Some Satie is a must (Everything is good.) And get some Ives..like his 2nd or 4th symphony.

You could also try Henry Cowell's music. He's good, and invented most of the techniques that were used in the 20th century.

I'll take a listen.  I like "The Banshee" by Cowell and the little I've heard from Ives, so hopefully I should enjoy their other material.
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John Curtin

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #12 on: 10 Jan 2007, 19:06 »

My personal favorite is Arnold Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw".

I'd recommend more but I dont know if youre looking for Avant Grade or Neo-Classic or somthing totally different. Can you be more specific?

Could be either of those, or music that doesn't qualify as either.  The only requirement is that it was composed in the early 20th century.
Well, that does seem like a fairly arbitrary category to choose.  Why limit it only to the early 20th century?  A lot of the music of the early 20th century (Mahler being an obvious example) was more or less the same as that of the late 19th.  And it's not like the stylistic landscape changed dramatically at the midpoint of the century, or rather, any more dramatically than at any other time.

All I'm saying is that it'd be pretty odd for your musical taste to coincide exactly and exclusively with early 20th century classical styles.  Is there any particular reason you're interested in this period?

On the topic of Cage and minimalism, keep in mind that the so-called "minimalist" composers have all pretty much rejected that label. Thinking in terms of categories like that can be helpful, but trying to pigeon-hole composers into a certain style is really not a particularly rewarding exercise.  Surely Cage's music can speak for itself no matter what people decide to categorise it as.  There's no real definition of what minimalism describes in music (and I don't think there should be), so it's really in the ear of the beholder.  Essentially, if someone wants to call some of Cage's music minimalist, surely that's their problem and not worth arguing over.

Cheers,

Tom

(Oh, and hi, I am new here.  I like music, long walks on the beach and double spaces between sentences)
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Johnny C

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #13 on: 10 Jan 2007, 21:35 »

Wait, your name is Tom and you chose the handle "John Curtin"? Might I inquire as to why?

Also, while Cage may not be a Minimalist, his music certainly has minimalistic features, in the traditional sense of the word.
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Lise

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #14 on: 11 Jan 2007, 00:28 »

Speaking of Tchaikovsky, there's a lot to be seen beyond "The Nutcracker" (didn't he actually write it on a whim and was displeased with it? The ironyyy!).

I own a copy of "The Seasons", a set of 12 short piano pieces based on the twelve months, and particularly enjoy playing November "Troika" and June "Barcarolle" (I'm probably biased because Nov's my birthday month ;P).

The Prokofiev "Romeo and Juliet ballet" is in my opinion, by far the best musical rendition of the play. Being able to play it in the local symphony was amazing, and even without the dancers present, the music carried its own atmosphere.

Yay for getting into Classical!
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Misereatur

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #15 on: 11 Jan 2007, 00:47 »

Oh man, I've got a test on Soviet composers this frieday. Fuck.

Prokofiev kind of bored me, I cant wait 'till my calss start learning modern and avant grade composers. Although, it'll be kind of short because our class has to finish harmonic analyzing by the end of the school year.
« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2007, 00:49 by Misereatur »
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brew

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #16 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:24 »


Well, that does seem like a fairly arbitrary category to choose.  Why limit it only to the early 20th century?  A lot of the music of the early 20th century (Mahler being an obvious example) was more or less the same as that of the late 19th.  And it's not like the stylistic landscape changed dramatically at the midpoint of the century, or rather, any more dramatically than at any other time.

All I'm saying is that it'd be pretty odd for your musical taste to coincide exactly and exclusively with early 20th century classical styles.  Is there any particular reason you're interested in this period?

It's not that my taste coincides with it, it's that it's an era I'm less familiar with (especially compared to stuff after it) and one that I think I'd still enjoy, so I'd like to learn more about it.  Even if some of it sounds like late 19th century music, that's fine... at least I'll have learned that this is the case, and in all likelihood, it'll have been a more advanced and updated form of 19th century music, which would probably appeal to me more.


Quote
On the topic of Cage and minimalism, keep in mind that the so-called "minimalist" composers have all pretty much rejected that label.

I realize this, but the word "minimalism", even though the word in its usual definition is not that accurate in describing the music, is still associated with a certain musical movement, one that is distinctly different from Cage's.  Calling Cage a minimalist seems a bit like calling Muse "modern classical" because the guy uses a piano, likes Rachmaninoff, and is "modern" in the sense that they're a current band.



Also, while Cage may not be a Minimalist, his music certainly has minimalistic features, in the traditional sense of the word.

In what sense?
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Johnny C

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #17 on: 11 Jan 2007, 03:37 »

I would say that a lot of Cage's music, that I've heard at any rate, consists of a study of the nature of sound itself more than anything else, and therefore is music at its most basic, or minimalistic, state. Not in the sense that it contains drones, necessarily, or any sort of twelve-tone or seriaslist harmony, but in that it's music - sound upon sound - at its most basic. Musically it may be somewhat intricate but audibly Cage's pieces were about understanding mere sound.

I would reject minimalism as a label because it actually seems to have very little in common with the music involved.
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John Curtin

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #18 on: 11 Jan 2007, 07:13 »

Wait, your name is Tom and you chose the handle "John Curtin"? Might I inquire as to why?
I think John Curtin was pretty great, so I stole his name.  Are you like my alter ego or something?  I have a feeling we shouldn't be interacting because it wil cause a tear in the fabric of the internet or something.


Well, that does seem like a fairly arbitrary category to choose.  Why limit it only to the early 20th century?  A lot of the music of the early 20th century (Mahler being an obvious example) was more or less the same as that of the late 19th.  And it's not like the stylistic landscape changed dramatically at the midpoint of the century, or rather, any more dramatically than at any other time.

All I'm saying is that it'd be pretty odd for your musical taste to coincide exactly and exclusively with early 20th century classical styles.  Is there any particular reason you're interested in this period?

It's not that my taste coincides with it, it's that it's an era I'm less familiar with (especially compared to stuff after it) and one that I think I'd still enjoy, so I'd like to learn more about it.  Even if some of it sounds like late 19th century music, that's fine... at least I'll have learned that this is the case, and in all likelihood, it'll have been a more advanced and updated form of 19th century music, which would probably appeal to me more.
Oh, I see, thanks for clarifying that.  Unfortunately I think I'm in a similar boat to you in that the early 20th century is the period I'm least familiar with as well!  So I can't really give a strong list of what's hot and what's not in the early 20th century.  I have a feeling that the way Schoenberg was first introduced to me (as "hey kids! Isn't this music just awful sounding?  This is the kind of stuff they invented in the 1910s!  So let's play some more Handel concerti grossi!) put me off it.  Of course, they did give us Debussy of examples of how 20th century music could be beautiful, but they kind of avoided beauty in atonality and presented it as being wankishly obsessed with internal consistency without worrying about whether it sounded beautiful or not.  Which was unfair and missed the point really.

I'm not really helping.  Mahler's symphonies are great if you're a fan of the grand German symphonic tradition, but like I said they are more in the 19th century than in the 20th century.  But Strauss wrote in a similar style, and he was around until 1948 (Mahler died in 1911), so we can't really call Mahler a 19th century composer just to be tidy, because that is meaningless.  Strauss' operas were in the same vain of Wagner, but he employed dissonance more often.  This isn't to say that he wrote atonal music; what he did was contrast dissonance with consonance in the same way it had been employed way back to baroque music - to create tension and resolution.  The difference being that Strauss' dissonances are harsher.

There's also the English tradition that took off - there hadn't been a major English composer since Purcell in the 18th century.  Everyone knows The Planets, but Holst's other music is certainly worth exploring.  Most of Elgar's music is good too, I like his 2nd symphony most.

I also agree with all the music that's been suggested by others.  I find the early 20th century to be difficult, and a lot of late 20th century music is focused on trying to come to terms with what happened earlier on in the century and get past the difficulties.
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David_Dovey

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #19 on: 11 Jan 2007, 08:09 »

John Curtin was awesome!!! Great nickname!!!

I really don't know much enough about 20th C Classical music to contribute meaningfully to this thread, so I'm gonna slink away now.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #20 on: 11 Jan 2007, 09:14 »

Cage had a couple alright pieces but on the whole, was a hack.

The Second Viennese School knew what they were doing with the 12-tone system and stuff, Berg's Wozzeck and Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw" and Perriot Lunaire are some of my favorite non-traditional harmony works.

Charles Ives is an oft-ignored composer who arguably wrote some of the most important American orchestral music ever created. You pretty much can't go wrong, but Three Places in New England is a good place to start exploring his work.
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Johnny C

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #21 on: 11 Jan 2007, 12:55 »

the 12-tone system and stuff

NOT IN MY EARS, YOU DON'T
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Misereatur

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #22 on: 11 Jan 2007, 15:59 »

HEY MAN, DONT JUDGE US BECAUSE WE LIKE ATONAL SHIT.

NOW YOURE GONNA TELL ME THAT YOU DONT LIKE FREE JAZZ.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #23 on: 16 Jan 2007, 23:43 »

Cage had a couple alright pieces but on the whole, was a hack.

Charles Ives is an oft-ignored composer who arguably wrote some of the most important American orchestral music ever created. You pretty much can't go wrong, but Three Places in New England is a good place to start exploring his work.

I support your reccomendation of Ives. However, I disagree with you about Cage. Composition in this day and age owes a lot to him, more than most people would like to think.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #24 on: 22 Jan 2007, 03:33 »

Stravinsky is such a good place to start for all of this business.
Nobody's got Petruchka up here?  Scandal!  Come on, what do you have against a bit of bitonal action?
Also, I think I might be thirding Firebird at this point, but it's really worth at least one listen.  It's better to play it, or see the ballet, but OMG SO GOOD is a pretty accurate description, if you decide to trust me.
And a little bit later ('45) is his Symphony in 3 Movements, which is radical live, but also some good easy listening.
Also - are we doing strictly orchestral stuff?
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #25 on: 22 Jan 2007, 21:30 »

Thirded on Ives.  Agree with Shostakovich (Kronos does a great performance of his Quartet No. 8.   Great piece).  I also would try Morton Feldman, who used time grids to notate his pieces. 
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brew

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #26 on: 23 Jan 2007, 03:48 »

Also - are we doing strictly orchestral stuff?

No, anything is fine.



I also would try Morton Feldman, who used time grids to notate his pieces. 

I think he made his music after 1950, but I do need to explore his stuff, as I've heard his name mentioned everywhere.  I think the only thing I've heard from him was the one on the James Tenney release Forms 1-4, which had a piece dedicated to Feldman as well as a rendition of Feldman's piece.  I should dig that up again.
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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #27 on: 23 Jan 2007, 03:55 »

Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff Carl Orff.


CARL ORFF!

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Re: Early 20th Century Classical
« Reply #28 on: 23 Jan 2007, 10:01 »


I think he made his music after 1950

You may be right.  I kinda screwed up the whole "early" 20th century classical.

I guess I could sub in Erik Satie, being as it was mentioned it doesn't have to be all orchestral music mentioned (though I have brought him up on a couple different occasionas on this board).  Pretty basic French piano work.  Not too shabby.
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