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[Inlander]

I guess that's why you should all be listening to the Dirty Three.

[aural aesthetic]

the pirate ship qunitet are really really awesome. their album isn't out yet, and won't be for a bit, but what i've heard of it is fantastic.
http://www.thepirateshipquintet.co.uk/
listen to the two mp3s on their site.

the first song on their myspace, reminds me a lot like the drift(the 2nd song doesn't sound like them at all)

i would recommend the drift, i saw them open for eits in november

If you want good post-rock music, check out this label:
Temporary Residence Limited
The absolute cream of the crop are on it.

agreed

i mainly just wanted to say that i LOVE explosions in the sky, i have been listening to them almost everyday for over a year and i still can't get enough...and if you have the chance to see them live, do it...amazing

/dry humping eits

[TheFuriousWombat]

to this  day i am blown away by how great the temporary 10th anniversary fest in nyc was. there are so many great bands on that label and seeing a lot of them in one place was just incredible and hightened my appreciation of the label even more. if a dvd of the fest ever finds its way out (and it's supposed to i think...) you'd all be fools not to buy it. fools!

[Ernest]

Allmusic describes Joan of Arc's "The Gap" as "a complicated in-joke that no one else is privy to."  I see what you mean, Tommy.

[timehat]

Alamaailman Vasarat

I can't admit to having heard every band you listed, but I really think Alamaailman Vasarat doesn't fit in with bands usually listed as being post-whatever that I am familiar with.

[TheFuriousWombat]

well it's not a traditional post-rock band but that's why i included it. it's different from most of post-rock i've heard, but i think it still falls into the post rock genre, just like beirut is unlike most indie rock but it's still considered part of that genre. i bring up beirut b/c like Alamaailman Vasarat they employ rather unique eastern european influences into their songs. Alamaailman Vasarat may sound different but i still think it's fair to consider it post-rock. there's lots of intense drumming and guitars, but a lot of non-traditional musical stuff going on as well. same goes for magyar posse actually. out of curiosity, if you wouldn't call them post-rock how would you classify them?

[Jackie Blue]

Wow, fish across face, Did Efrim Manuck steal your girlfriend or something?  Jesus, dude.

Personally, most of the post-rock I listen to I like because it's NOT really "experimental" but more based on what classically sounds good - GY!BE, Labradford, Mono, Mogwai, bands like that.  I don't think most people think such music is necessarily breaking new ground in terms of structure, mood, chord progressions or whatever.

That said, I don't see how one could listen to, say, Hash Jar Tempo or Flying Saucer Attack and NOT think that those kind of "post-rock" bands are doing something original (whether you like it or not).

[timehat]

well it's not a traditional post-rock band but that's why i included it. it's different from most of post-rock i've heard, but i think it still falls into the post rock genre, just like beirut is unlike most indie rock but it's still considered part of that genre. i bring up beirut b/c like Alamaailman Vasarat they employ rather unique eastern european influences into their songs. Alamaailman Vasarat may sound different but i still think it's fair to consider it post-rock. there's lots of intense drumming and guitars, but a lot of non-traditional musical stuff going on as well. same goes for magyar posse actually. out of curiosity, if you wouldn't call them post-rock how would you classify them?

Actually, there are no guitars. Those are cellos. Apparently cellos sound amazing with distortion. Giving them a strict classification would be difficult, so I might just default to something like avant-garde or RIO. Either that or just identify them by some of the more prevalent influences in their music.

[TheFuriousWombat]

hmmm, interesting. thanks actually, that makes me appreciate them more b/c that's some damn cool celloing. either way, if i had to place them into a genre, i would certainly say not avante-garde. they're too structured and thier music feels like composed pieces so i don't think they fall into that category. at least, they're certainly not on the same level as 'selected ambient works' era aphex twin or gang gang dance's "god's money,"  or tarentel's "big black square" for example. in fact i think a fair number of "post-rock" bands are more on the avante-garde side than Alamaailman Vasarat are. for the sake of classification i'm fairly confident of their post-rock status. not that music really needs to be lumped into categories, but if someone asked that's where i would put them, albiet on the less traditional end of the genre obviously.

[timehat]

Well, I don't think avant-garde is as strict of a definition as you put forth concerning unstructuredness. In fact, a lot of music that is or has been considered avant-garde is insanely intricately structured, just look at serialism. I was merely using the phrase as a sort of catch-all for forward thinking music that relies on a unique combination of influences or utilizes new compositional forms or techniques.

[TheFuriousWombat]

ok, fair enough. i guess i was thinking of 'avant-garde' in stricter terms. but you make a good argument and with that definition it would be fair to place Alamaailman Vasarat in the avant-garde group. i still don't think i'd ever really consider them as such but i guess i'm sorta set in my understanding of avant-garde and oft unshakeable stubborness prevents that from changing. but i can see how they might be defined as such.

[Aneurhythmia]

So, you've essentially invalidated your use of language?

[TheFuriousWombat]

or i've admitted that semantics exists and that often words or phrases are up for interpretation and that, while i may not agree with one interpretation, it may still be a valid one to certain people and therefore, when it comes to genres of music for example, i might define a particular genre title in one way and ergo not include a certain band in said genre while someone else might define the genre title another way and, by their definition, the same band might indeed fall into said genre. i can admit this without invalidating my own definition because quite often these things are very open for interpretation.

[Aneurhythmia]

Which doesn't apply to a term like avant-garde that has a widely established use.  Considering its interpretation "very open" and disagreeing with interpretations of it undermine the efficacy of language.

[TheFuriousWombat]

i'm not sure how true that is really. its interpretation is open. one would be hard pressed to provide a rigid definition for "avant-garde" that all would agree with. i was merely saying that various definitions exist. i personally have my own interpretation of the phrase which may or may not conform to someone elses. how does that undermine the efficacy of language? admitting something is open for interpretation should not have to go hand in hand with agreeing with all interpretations offered.

[Aneurhythmia]

So if there isn't a standard definition, what are you interpreting?  The sound of the word?  The way it looks?

[Jackie Blue]

Well, I guess it just wouldn't be a post-rock thread if it didn't have someone being a snarky pedant in it.

[Johnny C]

And it wouldn't be a forum if someone wasn't debating semantics.

[Aneurhythmia]

Well, I guess it just wouldn't be a post-rock thread if it didn't have someone being a snarky pedant in it.

Who's being snarky?  Oh wait, it's you.

[David_Dovey]

#9

[fish across face]

Personally, most of the post-rock I listen to I like because it's NOT really "experimental" but more based on what classically sounds good - GY!BE, Labradford, Mono, Mogwai, bands like that.  I don't think most people think such music is necessarily breaking new ground in terms of structure, mood, chord progressions or whatever.

Yay, I'm pleased to hear that.  My beef is just that there are these new bands which I think are real, dyed in the wool, card-carrying Post-Rock Bands.  They sound like they've heard post-rock stuff, that they have a clear picture of what post-rock is, and they want to do the same.  Wait, that's not my beef. My beef is that fans of these bands seem to consider them more adventurous or more "out there" (dare I say, avant-garde) than other bands working to find their niche within a clean-cut genre, be it psy-trance or baile funk or garage rock.

I admit, I also really don't understand the deal with Sigur Ros being post-rock, and it is something of a bug-bear for me.  I bought their first EP when it came out, just because it was on Fat Cat and up until that point I'd been following that label pretty religiously, but, man, it sounded tired.  I'd heard things that were really similar before, even on quite improbable things like The Verve's early EPs and first album (back when they were Verve).  No one would EVER call the Verve post-rock, right?  But mostly I'm thinking about shoegazer stuff... Fat Cat had already released things by Transient Waves, which were sorta on some post-My Bloody Valentine kick, and I just thought "oh, more modern shoegaze, with some more Lanois / Eno shit going on ... no wonder these guys are massive rockstars in their home country".  I sold it on pretty swiftly.  Then suddenly this band which I thought sounded incredibly like a whole lot of late 80s / early 90s music suddenly got heralded as the flag-bearers of a genre which, when it was initially invented, described something quite different.  I was a bit - how do you say? - "WTF dudes" about it.

That said, I don't see how one could listen to, say, Hash Jar Tempo or Flying Saucer Attack and NOT think that those kind of "post-rock" bands are doing something original (whether you like it or not).

Never heard Hash Jar Tempo.  Fucking funny name...    Must be a pun on Ash Ra Tempel, right?  Just did a google, if it involves Roy Montgomery it's probably pretty good.  Another guy who's been churning out psychedelic waves of good times since before "post-rock" was coined.

I used to listen to Flying Saucer Attack a lot when I was at school, but again, this is an old band who used to be considered among bods I talked to IRL and on the internet as part of the shoegaze and blisspop school of things... fitting into that noisy, soaring 90s UK indie thing you might want to rope bands like Swervedriver or Ride or whoever else into.  They've been retro-actively brought under the post-rock umbrella (like Labradford above and, most confusingly, Slint upthread), presumably exactly because they sound original... I think they're great, but I got quite sick of them.  I wish I hadn't been so ruthless in selling off CDs.

So those examples are not what I was digging at (not that I made it clear in my other post - I'm not giving you shit).

[Jackie Blue]

Actually I never considered Sigur Ros to be post-rock either, so I basically agree on that point.  For better or worse, post-rock has been made into a genre so broad it doesn't mean anything anymore (I mean, if someone could tell me how the same genre can contain M83, Mogwai, and Stars of the Lid and have any kind of internal consistency, I'd be really surprised).

Hash Jar Tempo is indeed very good, I would say that the second album, Under Glass, is even better than most Roy Montomery solo stuff (but not as good as, say, "Fantasia On a Theme From Sandy Bull").

[TheFuriousWombat]

m83 is electronica, not post-rock i'd argue. however, i do think sigur ros is. post-rock does not, i don't think, requier that music be purely instrumental or epic or anything like that. to quote the wikipedia entry on it, post-rock is "characterized by non-traditional use of rock instruments and high musical density." that sounds like sigur ros to me, especially in the way guitar is implemented. i prescribe to this particular idea of the genre and for that reason i feel sigur ros fits the bill. and if you do feel a lack of vocal is a neccessity for a band to be in the post-rock genre, as some people i know do, then consider the argument i once heard that jonsi's voice is something of an instrument in and of itself. it's certainly farily unique and the indecipherable (often, depending on the album, made up) lyrics, as well as the way they are sung, gives the vocals a very instrumental quality.
idk, just how i see it.

[Jackie Blue]

m83 is electronica, not post-rock i'd argue.

I agree, but that's not the critical or public consensus.

to quote the wikipedia entry on it, post-rock is "characterized by non-traditional use of rock instruments and high musical density."

OK, but then you run into the problem that areguably the most seminal post-rock band of all time - Godspeed You! Black Emperor - was very traditional in both use of instruments and songwriting.  "Non-traditional use of rock instruments and high musical density" sounds like Sonic Youth, to me, and nobody (I hope) is retroactively claiming SY is post-rock.

This is what I mean by that post-rock is a totally meaningless genre label and is a marketing term, like "indie rock" has been since the mid-90s and "college rock" was in the 80s.

[TheFuriousWombat]

hmm, that is true. but godspeed did a lot of very non-traditional stuff as well. songs lasting well over the 20 minute mark, multiple movements in each song, definetly some very dense moments, and, at times, there are untraditional instrumentals. a co-worker of mine from over the summer saw them live once and described how a screwdriver was employed to play a guitar at one point.
but you're very right. sonic youth is most certainly not post-rock despite fitting the "definition" and claiming the lable is essentially irrelevant is very valid. it's obvious that that's the case but i've been using the label for so long to refer to bands that most people would not argue fit the lable (mogwai, mono, the aforementioed godspeed) that it's a habit. a bad one, granted, and one i should break, but a habit nonetheless.

[fish across face]

however, i do think sigur ros is. post-rock does not, i don't think, requier that music be purely instrumental or epic or anything like that. to quote the wikipedia entry on it, post-rock is "characterized by non-traditional use of rock instruments and high musical density." that sounds like sigur ros to me, especially in the way guitar is implemented. i prescribe to this particular idea of the genre and for that reason i feel sigur ros fits the bill. and if you do feel a lack of vocal is a neccessity for a band to be in the post-rock genre, as some people i know do, then consider the argument i once heard that jonsi's voice is something of an instrument in and of itself. it's certainly farily unique and the indecipherable (often, depending on the album, made up) lyrics, as well as the way they are sung, gives the vocals a very instrumental quality.

Completely pointlessly, I still defend Simon Reynold's original article about post-rock, and in that, as I mentioned upthread, he included bands like Disco Inferno and Stereolab.  So I don't think vocals make something no longer post-rock. 

But I think Sigur Ros records are as textural as, to take a deliberately provocative example, U2's slow songs circa Unforgettable Fire.  U2-obsessed friends tell me Bono starts writing songs largely by singing wordless melodies over band jams and some of those are left in the tracks.  On this and The Joshua Tree that involves lots of wordless keening over shimmering layers of guitar.

On the Eno-produced tip, a lot of the quieter Sigur Ros stuff I've heard puts me in mind of Eno circa Another Green World and Before And After Science. 

Vocally and musically you can point to stuff the Cocteau Twins, with Liz Fraser in gentle warbling mode (made-up words again).

I know in performance the guitarists do some funny things, but as with what zerodrone said, this is like Sonic Youth or even Jimmy Paige..?  Or back to Eno and the art-rockers...?  All of whom are rock.

This is all deliberately avoiding the most obvious reference point, the shoegazer bands like Lush, Ride, maybe even My Bloody Valentine.

My point being that all of these touchstones have alwas been considered part of the big ol' world of rock, in one way or another.  I don't see why the sum of all these rock parts is no longer rock.  I don't hear external influences or sounds that push them into a new place.

Anyway, I've stated my piece, best leave it alone.

[Jackie Blue]

hmm, that is true. but godspeed did a lot of very non-traditional stuff as well. songs lasting well over the 20 minute mark, multiple movements in each song, definetly some very dense moments

But Pink Floyd did that too - go listen to "Echoes".  And besides that, 20+ minute suites with multiple movements is as traditional as you can get - one might even say it's downright classical, if you get my meaning.

I'm not down on anyone for saying "If you want to get into post-rock, pick up GY!BE and Mogwai albums", because most of us can (grudgingly) admit that "bands that sound like GY!BE or Mogwai" is a large enough genre that it should have some kind of name.  But I really don't like applying the term willy-nilly to even stuff like Low, which I've seen done several times.

Also: fish across face, I feel your pain WRT people not acknowledging the huge influence shoegazer/britrock had.  Whenever I hear someone compare Interpol's first album to Joy Division I'm all like "RARGH!  HAVE YOU HEARD OF SLOWDIVE?  LUSH?  THE CHURCH?  THE CHAMELEONS?  HELL THE FUCKING PSYCHEDELIC FURS ARE CLOSER IN SOUND TO THAT ALBUM THAN JOY DIVISION!  RARGH!"

[Chad K.]

Hmmm.... "post rock" is a pretty vaguely used term, but, as I understand it, it's anything that deconstructs the traditional rock structure i.e. 4/4 time (3/4 or 6/8 if we're getting crazy) with a verse/chorus/verse structure in favor of something that strays from that formula, while maintaining some of the energy and at least some of the tools of rock (i.e. drums, bass, guitar).  That's a pretty wide net.  Given your tastes, I'd say check out the math rock thread from about a month ago for more ideas. 

[Thrillho]

Can someone give me some MP3s of a few Godspeed songs? Because the more I hear about them, the more I want to hear them, but I don't want to waste my money. I don't want any whole albums because that'd make buying them pointless, just a few individual tracks.

[louize 5]

I know I never formally introduced myself in the "Hi, I'm new" part of the forum, but I just had to add some stuff to this thread:

Some Brazillian Post-Rock bands:

Hurtmold (very Tortoise-like, but with some brazillian essence. I just saw their concert tuesday!)
Projeto dois pontos (Can also be called "Projeto :" - very epic, very noisy, uses a lot of different instruments but still havent found a good formula.)
Objeto Amarelo (Unfortunately ended. Minimalistic, improvised a lot.)
Shiksa (Same line as Objeto amarelo, but better. Great nonsense lyrics.)

[carrotosaurus]

I really can't believe no one has mentioned Tarentel yet. One of the best post-rock bands around.

Hi louize 5... I LOVE Hurtmold! They rock.

[Thrillho]

Can someone give me some MP3s of a few Godspeed songs? Because the more I hear about them, the more I want to hear them, but I don't want to waste my money. I don't want any whole albums because that'd make buying them pointless, just a few individual tracks.

Having looked into it, 'a few' Godspeed songs would result in an album, so just one would be fine.

I've downloaded a live bootleg (which I've read that they officially endorse) and it sounds amazing, but none of the tracks are titled and the quality is poor.

[TheFuriousWombat]

i have two concert bootlegs, both quite nice quality (on in france from 2003 and the other is a two part piece called 'tiny silver hammers' but i don't know when or where it was played). anyway, godspeed albums are all very short track wise, the longest being yanqui uxo with 5 tracks, the shortest being slow riot for new zero kanada with only 2 tracks. i recommend you pick up 'life your skinny fists like antennas to heaven' it's two discs, two tracks on each disc, and it's incredible. trust me, you won't be wasting your money. if you like what you hear (and i find it hard to believe you won't) get 'F#A# ∞' then 'slow riot...' and last of all pick up 'yanqui uxo' (that's my personal order of favorites though...)
just take a chance. i don't think you'll find your money has been wasted.

[Jackie Blue]

I really can't believe no one has mentioned Tarentel yet.

I really can't believe you don't read threads before posting in them.  Sorry, that was a cheap shot.

I did mention Tarentel way back on page 1.

[louize 5]

An honorable mention is Valley of the Giants, formed by members of Broken Social Scene, Do Make Say Think, GYBE, Shallabi Effect, A Silver Mount Zion and Strawberry.

[Joseph]

Dynamite Kid, there are a ton of concert bootlegs for GY!BE to be found over here.

[Thrillho]

The link's broken.

[[El Cynico]]

I second Bark Psychosis (Can't remember who mentioned it), Codename: Dustsucker is a fantastic album, and i'm just getting into Hex.
I'd also recommend thelittlesorryselfyouare and Loss of a Child (both can be found on last.fm, the latter has an album available for free download here: http://www.archive.org/details/lost_children)

[carrotosaurus]

Whoops. Please accept my humble apologies.

[fish across face]

The link's broken.

Worked fine for me.  Go to archive.org and search for them if you're sure it's broken.

I downloaded a couple of these Godspeed You! Black Emperor concerts yesterday and had them playing while I was doing other things.  I think I confirmed for myself that I'll never get the appeal of them...

[Jackie Blue]

I think I confirmed for myself that I'll never get the appeal of them...

[ekmesnz]

(Sorry in advance.   )

I think all we need in this world is more long, instrumental tracks based around a traditional band line-up, with either some moody piano or some tuned percussion (preferably vibes or maybe a xylophone) and a middle section where the guitars get much louder.  Because, you know, that's really adventurous and interesting and, boy, it goes so far beyond the constrains of rock music into a world of NO RULES!!

Maybe if you're getting wild and crazy you can step things up a notch and have some distorted electronic beats that sound like what happened to "IDM" when that became all codified and conventional in the mid-90s.  Boy.  So dazzlingly inventive.

Even better would be if you put a singer back in the mix, bringing things into the same soaring blissed out format of shit like Cocteau Twins or the shoegazer bands or whoever and then have your fans decide it's the best example of POST-rock around.  Because, man, having a band with a singer and loud guitars is really pushing the boundaries of the rock format into new territory.  Fuck you all, Sigur Ros fans.

See, you used all these words, but all you ended up saying was, "I don't know what the fuck post-rock is!"

[amok]

I second Bark Psychosis (Can't remember who mentioned it), Codename: Dustsucker is a fantastic album, and i'm just getting into Hex.
I'd also recommend thelittlesorryselfyouare and Loss of a Child (both can be found on last.fm, the latter has an album available for free download here: http://www.archive.org/details/lost_children)

Hex is my favourite album. 'A Street Scene' especially. Mindblowing track.

[kid_militia]

Whilst we're here, whats a good new post-rock band for a guy who likes a bit of GY!BE and Mono now and then, but knows for a fact that he does not like Mogwai, Slint or Tortoise?

I feel similar and can recommend This Will Destroy You. First listen reminded me a lot of GY!BE, but with shorter songs that have less random shit tacked on. pretty good.

[fish across face]

See, you used all these words, but all you ended up saying was, "I don't know what the fuck post-rock is!"

Eh?  Do you mean I revealed a lack of understanding or that you think my complaint is that I don't understand the definition of post-rock?

[McTaggart]

I understood your complaint and I'd like to add a bit; people who think that because of all the omg-we're-so-experimental bands that it's a less valid genre than any other. I like some post-rock, and if you hate me for that you can go to hell.

(that last sentence wasn't directed at you)

[Thrillho]

(Sorry in advance.   )

I think all we need in this world is more long, instrumental tracks based around a traditional band line-up, with either some moody piano or some tuned percussion (preferably vibes or maybe a xylophone) and a middle section where the guitars get much louder.  Because, you know, that's really adventurous and interesting and, boy, it goes so far beyond the constrains of rock music into a world of NO RULES!!

Maybe if you're getting wild and crazy you can step things up a notch and have some distorted electronic beats that sound like what happened to "IDM" when that became all codified and conventional in the mid-90s.  Boy.  So dazzlingly inventive.

Even better would be if you put a singer back in the mix, bringing things into the same soaring blissed out format of shit like Cocteau Twins or the shoegazer bands or whoever and then have your fans decide it's the best example of POST-rock around.  Because, man, having a band with a singer and loud guitars is really pushing the boundaries of the rock format into new territory.  Fuck you all, Sigur Ros fans.

Fuckin' emokids 

[Kai]

goddamn FATSTERS

[fish across face]

Fuckin' emokids 

My railing against how the use of "post-rock" has strayed from Reynolds' original concept is kinda like Tommydski's stance about the definition of emo.

I guess I wouldn't be annoyed about it if I liked more of what is called post-rock now and less of what used to be called that.

ANGER ABOUT GENRE TERMS = EXCELLENT USE OF EVERYONE'S TIME!!!

 

[Jackie Blue]

My railing against how the use of "post-rock" has strayed from Reynolds' original concept is kinda like Tommydski's stance about the definition of emo.

Well, actually, no, not really.

Adhering to the "original" definition of post-rock is you saying "I believe this one dude made up a genre term that will never change to fit the common usage".  Are you Catholic by any chance?

I think we all need to remember what Constellation Records said about post-rock:

"This is our 'post-rock' -- a term that must be construed politically in equal measure to its referencing of some diffuse 'instrumental' or 'deconstructed' musical aesthetic. 'Indie rock' was never a genre and its bastardisation as an aesthetic category was one of countless elegant corporate-intellectual coups during the 1990s. Sadly, all too many hipper-than-now taste-makers were happily complicit, ready to replace 'indie' with 'post' and thus help extinguish any abiding concern about the economies that ground and contextualise rock music. So fuck post-rock, and the smooth untroubled consumption it enables."