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Author Topic: 300  (Read 50188 times)

I Am Not Amused

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Re: 300
« Reply #100 on: 18 Mar 2007, 19:53 »

Okay, so I'm going to try and put some things in perspective.

This is a MOVIE

Based off a GRAPHIC NOVEL

That was inspired by ANOTHER MOVIE

That was inspired by a TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE ACCOUNT

Of TRUE EVENTS.


And people here are arguing about its historical context?

Holy compacted anal cavities. Settle down.
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Re: 300
« Reply #101 on: 18 Mar 2007, 21:58 »

I didn't much bother to read the whole thread. Though I can guess that debates are probably raging about how historically innacurate and over the top it was. To which I'll point out:

Frank Miller wrote freakin' Sin City. It's going to be over the top.

Anyway, on to what I really want to say. I didn't think 300 was that super-duper amazing, actually. After hearing stuff from my friends like "It's better than all of the best movies combined! It's better than that!" Or y'know, crazy stuff like that. Then I go and watch it, and it's like. An above average but not great movie. And the pacing was kind of weird...

Now... Watchmen... That's gonna be super. Can I getta amen?
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #102 on: 18 Mar 2007, 22:27 »

In any historical context the movie is laughable, at best.  If you regard it as a wholly fictional work, then it's a fun movie, the problem is, the film itself doesn't treat itself like that.
Okay there are some minor spoilers if you read this.

There is a hunchback who is grossly and unrealistically deformed.

Wolves look really fucking weird.

Xerxes is eight feet tall, easily, and from the scenes which he appears on clifftops in he's apparently capable of teleportation.

There are a bunch of inbred priests who somehow live up on a mountain with naked oracles and are able to eat.

There are bizarrely-equipped war elephants and rhinoceri.

A twelve-foot tall ogre is part of the Persian army.

There is a tree of dead bodies.

There is a fat man with blades for arms.

Xerxes has a portable fleet of deformed lesbians, and an additional fleet of deformed super-warriors, but somehow their deformities which are identical to the priests' turn them into fighting machines rather than weird monsters.

Everyone can jump about twenty feet in the air.

Arrows actually blot out the sun.

If you pause for one moment to actually think about the movie the "it treats itself as history" argument falls apart under the sheer weight of the completely absurd contents of the film. Snyder treats it as history but that's because if you read any interviews with him he actually doesn't understand self-awareness as it relates to filmmaking.

If you want to make a complaint about it possibly misrepresenting a culture then you need to address the problem that our society has with media literacy and interpretation. For God's sake, Norbit was a popular movie. Our culture endorses and popularizes mindless crap because it's easy and because it's pushed on us. That Borat was a success is a decent sign although it was distressing to hear people behind me in the theatre not fucking know where Georgia is.

If you understand that 300 is an absolute flight of fancy based on actual events, like about 70% of war movies and 100% of movies about the Alamo, then the movie doesn't create a problem. Anybody who comes out of that movie feeling that they've sat through a course on Spartan history and are feeling wiser about it are illustrative more of a social issue than a problem with a film based on a graphic novel by Frank Fucking Miller, who has given us such wonderful concepts as a Batman who says, "What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? I'm the goddamn Batman." He's responsible for an upcoming graphic novel entitled Holy Terror, Batman! He wrote the entirety of Sin City, which is absolutely laden with completely ridiculous events. The man's had an entire career of coming up with awesome concepts that also contain nothing but absolute ridiculousness*.

And at the moment? At the moment we're over-analyzing a film which features even more ridiculous and stupid elements than this and treating it as a dangerous weapon, as a ticking time bomb. It's not. If there are any politics, the politics are against expansion and invasion and imperialism - which if you consider Iran's perspective as a small country which has refused to back down to U.S. and Coalition demands, even with a completely insane but rather brave leader, suddenly becomes a fascinating element. To tell the truth, if we talk about the politics of this movie which is big and dumb and about heroes and villains and really nothing bigger than good versus evil and freedom versus slavery and blah blah blah they shoulda shot it in black and white, then honestly I'm going to keep arguing from that perspective. I can even start culling some lines from Xerxes and the rest of the Persians.

Oh and uh that article nicely skirts the Spartan-led Battle Of Plataea which drove the Persians back out of Greece but that's alright I guess, can't expect an article about history to mention everything I suppose. And as an afterthought regarding the pederasty thing, it's the word of ancient Greek comedians - these are the dudes who required dudes in their comedies to have giant prop phalluses, remember - versus Plutarch and Cicero, for God's sake. That's a history lesson from Carlos Mencia.

Phew! I think I've said enough serious things about the completely silly movie. I wish people would just treat silly movies as silly movies! I don't understand why everyone feels a need to do otherwise when there are quite enough movies which aren't silly already that they can choose from.






*except for the "goddamn batman" bit, that's just stupid and not entertaining at all
« Last Edit: 18 Mar 2007, 22:43 by Johnny C »
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Re: 300
« Reply #103 on: 19 Mar 2007, 00:08 »

Johnny, for all it is supposed to be, I enjoy it.

The problem I have is with the director making claims about how this is the battle as it would have been re-told right afterwards (as Ozy said as well).  We have Heredotus for that, whose histories are rife enough with ridiculous claims that would have made sense in his world, and don't in ours.  I just don't buy it.  I take issue with Zack Snyder making claims like that and turning the movie into something it shouldn't be.

As for the Battle of Plataea, the Spartans made up only perhaps 10-20% of the total Greek force of one hundred thousand, and I wouldn't claim that they lead, the Athenians and Teagans played as big a role as they did.  The Spartans did kill Mardonius, but their obstinacy regarding things like de-camping without a fight because the Persians had cut off the water supply could very well have cost them the battle had smarter voices not interceded.

I'm also thoroughly annoyed at how the right wing in this country is making it out to be some analogy about the west confronting Islam.

Quote
The analogy between the war on terror and the death struggle of ancient Greece with Persia has not been lost on some high administration officials either, especially Vice President Dick Cheney. (A White House spokesman declined to comment about the film.) In the months after 9/11, a classics scholar named Victor Davis Hanson wrote a series of powerful pieces for the National Review Online, later collected and published as a book, "An Autumn of War." Moved by Hanson's evocative essays, Cheney invited Hanson to dine with him and talk about the wars the Greeks waged against the Asian hordes, in defense of justice and reason, two and a half millennia ago.

The movie is a cartoon, based very loosely on historical fact. The Persians are depicted as either effeminate or vicious abusers of women, while the Greeks are manly men. The bad guys in "300" also include corrupt Spartan politicians who refuse to send more troops to the battle. Some right-wing bloggers have likened them to liberal Democrats voting against the surge in Iraq. Moviegoers may be a little confused by other cultural echoes in the film. The Spartan heroes seem to be in love with what one of them calls "a beautiful death." Just like, er, Islamic suicide bombers.

That's for another day.
« Last Edit: 19 Mar 2007, 00:27 by Daniel »
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #104 on: 19 Mar 2007, 07:33 »

I take issue with Zack Snyder making claims like that and turning the movie into something it shouldn't be.
See this is completely fair. A quote from him describes the movie as "90% accurate." Apparently he's shown it to some "scholars"* who consider it such. That's a ridiculous and untrue claim, unless they are Frank Miller scholars.

Also seriously the movie looks more like a decrying of Western imperialism than it does an anti-Islamic tirade. Hell, Xerxes is a god-king and the Spartans are polytheists so there aren't even analagous religions in the movie. But taking a movie with the line "ONLY THE HARD. ONLY THE STRONG." as if it was making a political statement is almost as silly as the movie.




*hobos
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Re: 300
« Reply #105 on: 19 Mar 2007, 11:25 »

Quote
The movie is a cartoon, based very loosely on historical fact. The Persians are depicted as either effeminate or vicious abusers of women, while the Greeks are manly men. The bad guys in "300" also include corrupt Spartan politicians who refuse to send more troops to the battle. Some right-wing bloggers have likened them to liberal Democrats voting against the surge in Iraq. Moviegoers may be a little confused by other cultural echoes in the film. The Spartan heroes seem to be in love with what one of them calls "a beautiful death." Just like, er, Islamic suicide bombers.

So, if I'm getting this right, the liberal Democrats are voting against sending manly Islamic suicide bombers to battle feminine terrorists? (I kid)

300 would have rocked harder if it had the moving qualities of Braveheart.
That said, I still think 300 rocked.
>.> Maybe someone else will make a different movie about it?
« Last Edit: 19 Mar 2007, 11:28 by TheBoredOne »
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Re: 300
« Reply #106 on: 19 Mar 2007, 16:11 »

>.> Maybe someone else will make a different movie about it?

There is another movie about it. It's called The 300 Spartans I do believe.
« Last Edit: 21 Mar 2007, 13:40 by JediBendu »
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Re: 300
« Reply #107 on: 21 Mar 2007, 00:23 »

That's his point. 300 is a movie based off a graphic novel that was based off a movie. Might as well make a movie based of a movie that was based off a graphic novel that was based off a movie, right?
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Re: 300
« Reply #108 on: 21 Mar 2007, 08:51 »

Are we trying to prove the point of the telephone game with this argument? 

Honestly, everyone should be familiar with the idea that just because someone tells a story in a certain way, doesn't make that version the same as the original nor does it have much weight when held up as truth.  To me it misses the point to quibble over the historical inaccuracies in an obviously fictional film.  It was fun and I enjoyed it.  I did not, however, walk out of the theatre thinking, "Wow, those Spartans sure were paragons of freedom and democracy!"  I'm not talking so much about the discussion you guys are having here, I'm more refering to the crazy politco's who are trying to make this out to be an endorsement of Bush policy and an alegory for attacking Iran and throwing a big stink about it.

p.s. Zack Snyder is a dousche who better not ruin Watchmen.
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Ozymandias

Re: 300
« Reply #109 on: 21 Mar 2007, 23:41 »

I think Snyder has a lot of talent and style as a director.

I think that talent and style is not appropriate for Watchmen and he needs to back off.

He'd make a good Halo mvoie, though.
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Re: 300
« Reply #110 on: 22 Mar 2007, 14:15 »

Just in case there are people on these here forums who have no idea what the hell we're talking about, or who just haven't seen the movie yet and would really like to but can't 'cos you're not 17 or don't live close to a theatre or something,

Merry Christmas.
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Re: 300
« Reply #111 on: 22 Mar 2007, 16:25 »

Outstanding movie. It completely revels in its comic book setting and doesn't shy away from being a little style over substance at times. That being said though the movie truley is a a complete joy to watch and listen to. The only point I would raise (and it's not even a point about the movie) is that I would love to see a movie which was an acurate (or as close to) representation of the events at Thermopylae. I'm a bit of a geek for ancient Greek History, with this particular battle being my favourite topic.

At least now though those who have seen the movie can grasp the significance of my username....
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Re: 300
« Reply #112 on: 22 Mar 2007, 21:19 »

I think Snyder has a lot of talent and style as a director.

I think that talent and style is not appropriate for Watchmen and he needs to back off.

I think he should do pretty good. So far he's done two good, appropriate adaptations. And I think if he continues to stick closely to the source material, then Watchmen should be alright.

Everything else is up to the screenwriter. That's the most difficult part of a Watchmen adaptation. I think.
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #113 on: 22 Mar 2007, 22:51 »

Perhaps Snyder should have the experience of coming up with an original idea before tackling another adapted work. Certainly attempting to present his own uncompromised vision would give him insight into the desire of the artist to have his or her message put across faithfully, and that is something which is entirely neccessary in order to present Watchmen properly.
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Inlander

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Re: 300
« Reply #114 on: 22 Mar 2007, 22:56 »

Now, it's probably a given that I'm not the target audience for this film, but seeing as how I like to be contrary . . .

. . . guys, I saw a trailer for 300 last night for the first time and it looked bad. Really bad. Bad like one of bad those car ads where the car goes through a landscape that's meant to look tough and intimidating because 95% of the colour has been removed in post-production, and the car's getting rocks and lightning and shit thrown at it and people are shouting at it and its dodging and weaving around everything and there's some really atrocious generic hard rock soundtrack . . . the trailer looked like that, only without the car.
« Last Edit: 22 Mar 2007, 23:08 by Inlander »
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #115 on: 22 Mar 2007, 23:42 »

You wouldn't believe how much fun an hour and a half of that is to watch.
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The Cosmic Fool

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Re: 300
« Reply #116 on: 23 Mar 2007, 01:13 »

Now, it's probably a given that I'm not the target audience for this film, but seeing as how I like to be contrary . . .

. . . guys, I saw a trailer for 300 last night for the first time and it looked bad. Really bad. Bad like one of bad those car ads where the car goes through a landscape that's meant to look tough and intimidating because 95% of the colour has been removed in post-production, and the car's getting rocks and lightning and shit thrown at it and people are shouting at it and its dodging and weaving around everything and there's some really atrocious generic hard rock soundtrack . . . the trailer looked like that, only without the car.

Then you probably won't like the whole movie. Multiply what you saw by an hour and a half, and you've got yourself 300.
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Re: 300
« Reply #117 on: 23 Mar 2007, 02:51 »

Then I probably won't go and see it! Not to mention my moral issues surrounding the depiction of gratuitous violence in the service of entertainment . . .

Just a quick question: is the whole film in slow motion, or did they just do that to make the trailer look dramatic?
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tommydski

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Re: 300
« Reply #118 on: 23 Mar 2007, 04:08 »

Harry, I fell asleep twice during this film.

Once during a 'sex scene'.
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Re: 300
« Reply #119 on: 23 Mar 2007, 05:24 »

I have a strange feeling that that should be a crime. "Crimes against tommyism" maybe?
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #120 on: 23 Mar 2007, 07:31 »

Just a quick question: is the whole film in slow motion, or did they just do that to make the trailer look dramatic?
Pretty much the whole film.
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tommydski

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Re: 300
« Reply #121 on: 23 Mar 2007, 12:04 »

It should be noted that that's twice as many times as I normally fall asleep during Sex.
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Re: 300
« Reply #122 on: 23 Mar 2007, 12:46 »

I saw the movie last night, and even in Imax, I found it underwhelming.  It was visually stunning, yes, but the writting just seemed very weak.  It felt very much like they left behind any idea of decent acting or ideas in order to make the movie look good.  It was entertaining, but I still left sorely disapointed.  The fact that one of my friends I saw it with has seen it three times, and thinks it's a piece of cinematic genius, the best movie he's seen in years, annoys me a fair bit.
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Re: 300
« Reply #123 on: 23 Mar 2007, 21:12 »

Saw the movie tonight. I thought it was a lavish monument to tedium.

If all of the movie ran in normal time, it would be half as long.
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Re: 300
« Reply #124 on: 23 Mar 2007, 21:32 »

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Re: 300
« Reply #125 on: 23 Mar 2007, 22:31 »

 That wasn't what I was expecting when I clicked on it! I was expecting the film with all violence and sex cut out, and therefore very shortened.
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Re: 300
« Reply #126 on: 23 Mar 2007, 23:12 »

As was I. Well done though. They've got a billion well done parodies over at YTMND too.
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Re: 300
« Reply #127 on: 24 Mar 2007, 12:42 »

I saw the movie when it opened on Thursday.

It fucking SLEW.

SCHWING SCHWING BONG SLICE AAARGH BLEED BLEED SLICE BANG LEG-SEVER
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Re: 300
« Reply #128 on: 25 Mar 2007, 14:34 »

Merry Christmas.

I know I'm running the risk of not only sounding like an angry prick but also being a huge dumbass and quoting myself, but to those of you who keep asking questions about the film, I would merely like to point out that the above link is to a place where you can watch the film from the warmth of your own compooter.

Just sayin'.
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #129 on: 25 Mar 2007, 14:53 »

It fucking SLEW.

SCHWING SCHWING BONG SLICE AAARGH BLEED BLEED SLICE BANG LEG-SEVER

This is an excellent description of the movie except it works better if you read it in slow motion with every fourth word read suddenly at normal speed.
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Ozymandias

Re: 300
« Reply #130 on: 26 Mar 2007, 00:29 »

I'm amazed at the boring comments. The movie was a lot of things, but boring never popped into my head as a possibility.
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The Cosmic Fool

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Re: 300
« Reply #131 on: 27 Mar 2007, 00:01 »

I love history. I can't get enough of it. Reading about all the things that have gone on from now since the beginning of recorded history is slick. So watching 300 for me was like sitting on the sidelines, watching one of the greatest military showdowns of all time was pretty cool. Historical accuracy didn't entirely matter, because I'm sure the real battle was awesome, but we can't go back in time and watch it.

If special effects and kickass fight scenes are what it takes to get people to enjoy history more, than so be it.
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Re: 300
« Reply #132 on: 27 Mar 2007, 22:36 »

I saw this movie tonight! I was actually expecting it to be somewhat historically accurate. I had no idea it was based on a comic. Still, it was a great movie! I had not been in a movie theater since Die Another Day, but I am glad I saw this.
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #133 on: 28 Mar 2007, 08:41 »

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Re: 300
« Reply #134 on: 28 Mar 2007, 20:57 »

I'll see, and raise.....


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Re: 300
« Reply #135 on: 28 Mar 2007, 21:14 »

saw the movie today! i get extra credit for art history.

overall - pretty much exactly what i expected. there were some good things in it, and i understand the appeal, but it didn't really do much for me.

tommy, how'd you fall asleep during the sex scenes? they were really really short. (i had to restrain myself from giggling in the first one though. oh, the cheese.)
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Johnny C

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Re: 300
« Reply #136 on: 29 Mar 2007, 15:28 »

i had to restrain myself from giggling in the first one though

Why? I didn't.
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Re: 300
« Reply #137 on: 30 Mar 2007, 00:11 »

My plan for this movie basically involves getting ridiculously stoned. I get the feeling it is going to be one of those movies I will find tedious if I don't.

As my plan stands, I will probably walk out of the cinema saying "that was INCREDIBLE!!" or something similar to Khars reaction.
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Re: 300
« Reply #138 on: 30 Mar 2007, 10:52 »

hat that is probably a good idea actually.

johnny, it was incredibly theatrical and dramatic. i mean geez, the thrusts were in slow-motion.
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Re: 300
« Reply #139 on: 30 Mar 2007, 11:02 »

I mean, I didn't restrain myself from giggling. That was a silly scene in a ridiculous film.
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Re: 300
« Reply #140 on: 30 Mar 2007, 15:07 »

tommy, how'd you fall asleep during the sex scenes? they were really really short.

I fell asleep twice but I think the timings were coincidental.
I kept on having to rewind the film to try and pick up what was happening.
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Re: 300
« Reply #141 on: 31 Mar 2007, 13:09 »

CGI != good film.
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MechZilla

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Re: 300
« Reply #142 on: 31 Mar 2007, 17:24 »

Surely you jest.
"Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within", anyone?
CGI aside (which is truly astounding), the movie was pretty much rubbish in content.
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Re: 300
« Reply #143 on: 31 Mar 2007, 21:16 »

Quote
A thousand nations of the Persian empire descend upon you. Our arrows will blot out the sun!
Quote
Then we shall fight in the shade

If that isn't total badassery, I don't know what is.
I just saw it today. Fucking epic!
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Re: 300
« Reply #144 on: 31 Mar 2007, 23:33 »

No, badassery is casually eating an apple while your friends kill the wounded enemies.
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ampersandwitch

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Re: 300
« Reply #145 on: 01 Apr 2007, 07:23 »

That kind of bothered me.  Where did he even get the apple?  It's like a throwback to the Pirates of the Caribbean apple rolling out of Barbossa's hand.
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Cartilage Head

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Re: 300
« Reply #146 on: 01 Apr 2007, 08:14 »

Surely you jest.
"Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within", anyone?
CGI aside (which is truly astounding), the movie was pretty much rubbish in content.

 Okay not to derail the thread but for the record I enjoyed and still enjoy the hell out of that movie! I haven't understood everybody's gripes about it.
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Yakob

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Re: 300
« Reply #147 on: 01 Apr 2007, 10:59 »

That kind of bothered me.  Where did he even get the apple?  It's like a throwback to the Pirates of the Caribbean apple rolling out of Barbossa's hand.

It would be kind of embarrassing if an army went to war and, instead of dying with honor in the heat of battle, they all died of starvation because they didn't bring any food with them.

Edit: I guess they could've killed some wolves or something and cooked it over the fire, but still.
« Last Edit: 01 Apr 2007, 11:00 by Yakob »
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WelshPete

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Re: 300
« Reply #148 on: 01 Apr 2007, 13:58 »

Still aint gotten round to seein this movie but from what I have seen of it generally the guys love it and the girls hate it!

Keep hearing people say stuff like...."the blood didnt look real"...."It wasnt at all realistic"

Then when you explain that its based on a grapic novel and aint supposed to be 100% realistic they shut up! Though when you see films where one man takes on a whole army with just a pistol and wins, you dont hear people complaining about realism!

Okay not to derail the thread but for the record I enjoyed and still enjoy the hell out of that movie! I haven't understood everybody's gripes about it.

I found FF:Spirits Within to not have much simular to the game, it had the whole spirit side to it but if you knew nothing about the game series i guess it wouldnt make sense! TBH the story could have been a bit more FF related and explained a bit more about it so those who dont know FF had a bit of a clue about things going on! Though CGI was amazing for the time!
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ampersandwitch

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Re: 300
« Reply #149 on: 01 Apr 2007, 19:23 »

That kind of bothered me.  Where did he even get the apple?  It's like a throwback to the Pirates of the Caribbean apple rolling out of Barbossa's hand.

It would be kind of embarrassing if an army went to war and, instead of dying with honor in the heat of battle, they all died of starvation because they didn't bring any food with them.

Edit: I guess they could've killed some wolves or something and cooked it over the fire, but still.

But a fresh apple, being kept where the fighting/killing was being done. . .
IT'S JUST NOT PLAUSIBLE
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