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Author Topic: Metal Gear Solid  (Read 5193 times)

KvP

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Metal Gear Solid
« on: 09 Sep 2007, 04:30 »

Since we're probably in danger of derailing the "good endings" thread, and since it's such a popular franchise, and since the search function turned up nothing, I'll just start up a dedicated MGS thread.

I'm not as big of a fan of the series as some, but I've definitely enjoyed the games I've played (2 and 3) and am looking forward to MGS4, although I own a 360 and am hoping that it will be ported at some point, because I'll never buy a system for a single game (I already have a 360 for Fallout 3) and if it's not ported then, well, I won't play it.

MGS4 has at this point been confirmed as the last chapter in Solid Snake's story, although it's possible they'll continue to make games in the MGS universe. If they do so, they do so without Hideo Kojima, who's apparently going to start focusing on other series after MGS4 wraps. Tentative release date's around May of '08, IIRC.

Recently they revealed the concepts for the new boss creatures, by far the most enjoyable parts of the MGS series. Kojima's overarching theme here is "Beauty and the Beast", or rather, beauty corrupted by war. They made a big deal of the fact that they used supermodels as mocap actors for the characters. At this point it's not jumping out at me the way MGS3's "emotions of battle" did. There's also some repetition of naming conventions ("wolf", "mantis") that might tie into MGS1 in some way, or might just be simple homages.

Any comments, praise, criticism, memories, etc. are welcome, of course.

To comments made in the "good endings" thread:
Metal Gear Solid is such an epic series that I wish I liked it.

I'm sorry guys, I just don't get it. It reminds me heavily of the GTA series because, while it does entirely unique, new things, it does very few of them flawlessly. Now, I think this deserves some explanation. In GTA:SA (eg.), the food and clothing thing just sucks. Clothes take so fucking long to try on that it's really not worth spending 5 whole minutes trying to decide on new socks. Food is almost as bad, with no ability to rob stores, no ability to steal food, etc., and it also has the same problem of taking literally 5 seconds to cycle between each "meal". The voices get old, and the system itself gets repetitious and aggravating.

That's a very small part of the game, but the same unpolished feel happens through all three games. MGS has the same feel. Codec monologues are plain annoying, and the voice acting on Snake is the most irritating sandpaper-against-my-eardrums noise I've ever heard. It's so completely over-the-top it reminds me of the overdub on Daft Punk's One More Time, except this time it's used 100% seriously. Besides the plot being completely ass-backwards, the gameplay usually feels hollow and old-school, especially the top-down perspective and difficulty aiming with ANYTHING outside of first-person.

Now I know everyone is going to yell at me, but I should say this: I don't hate either series. For all the unpolished feelings, they're still amazingly fun games. I just have never understood people calling EITHER of these two games, perfect.
The only people I know who argue that the MGS series is "perfect" are generally in it for Sony. They're hardly perfect, but they are wildly ambitious, especially the older ones, in context, and when Kojima swings for the bleachers he usually connects. Sometimes he'll go flying off the handles, as in MGS2, yet the guy's got vision. But he's gone on record with his opinion that games aren't really art, which is ironic considering how often his games are used against that idea.

I disagree with you, though, I think the MGS series is pretty well polished. The camo system in 3 can get annoying, but it's supposed to encourage thought, which is something that a lot of gamers are uncomfortable with, seeing as how most games, even the good ones, tend to make it easy for players to coast effortlessly through the gameplay. You can't coast in MGS, nor can you run and gun. You'll get slaughtered. The camo and stamina systems in 3 are extensions of that design concept. You have to be involved. Though, the case could certainly be made for a less clumsy interface regarding the camo. Hopefully they'll address that in 4. As for the difficulty of aiming, like I said, it's not a combat game. The best way through an area is usually not to start a firefight, and the boss fights are usually intuitive enough to be challenging but not impossible.

As for Snake, what do you want? He's just like any other spy hero, void of personality but still a certified badass, much like, say, Jason Bourne. It's only a fantasy only slightly different from Bond.

I agree with you on the plot, though, in principle. Kojima's spent considerable effort making his games cinematic, but as a storyteller he's limited by the medium. He's making stealth action games but wants complex characters and meaningful plot developments, and he tries to accomplish this by throwing in excessive amounts of cutscenes and monologues. Especially in the cases of the boss characters it's apparent that Kojima's biting off more than he can chew, since they're usually only given the amount of screen time it takes to put them in Snake's way so Snake can kill them. Thus you have all kinds of "I shall kill you, but first, I will tell you my tragic life story..." situations playing out, and it gets more ridiculous the more you play. Still, where this works to the detriment of 1 and 2, 3 is obviously a fantastical espionage pulp thriller from the opening credits on, and it works remarkably well, I think.
« Last Edit: 09 Sep 2007, 04:33 by Kid van Pervert »
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Tehz

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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #1 on: 09 Sep 2007, 09:45 »

They better make a 360 port.

I'll hurt someone if they don't.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #2 on: 09 Sep 2007, 10:19 »

Looking at all of the things that have been ported so far to the 360 that were previously Playstation exclusives, I wouldn't be too surprised if this was as well. I always thought they would try to keep Final Fantasy on the PS more than MGS. Although, now that the exclusives for the system are dwindling so, maybe Sony will really want to hold onto this one.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #3 on: 09 Sep 2007, 14:50 »

Yeah, the only reason I can see them not making a 360 port is if Sony gives them a whole mess of cash.

I've never actually played a Metal Gear Solid game, but they sound fascinating just from the sheer weirdness of things I've read about them. I've thought about picking up Twin Snakes or perhaps 3 because they're both relatively recent. But with all the other games I want to play it's been difficult to get around to them.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #4 on: 09 Sep 2007, 15:53 »

The problem with MGS is the plots and stuff do sound really interesting and clever.

But to get them, you have to play the game. Not worth it, IMO.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #5 on: 09 Sep 2007, 16:39 »

you are the reverse of everything I know
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #6 on: 09 Sep 2007, 16:58 »

you are the reverse of everything I know

No kidding. My problem was more I wanted to play the awesome games but I had to get around the fucking retarded plot.

Props to MGS3 though for having an entertaining story though. MGS1 was eh.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #7 on: 10 Sep 2007, 14:56 »

I did play the very beginning of MGS3 with a few friends. We recieved our problem after we created a time paradox by killing, I think Revolver Ocelot, to which the response was, "Fuck this.", which disappoints me. I still wanted to play.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #8 on: 10 Sep 2007, 18:35 »

you are the reverse of everything I know

Well, you misunderstand a bit.

Part of the pain of playing the game is playing the 10 minutes of alright espionage gameplay followed by 30 minutes of plot. It's so unbalanced in its presentation that it's just not worth the hassle. Give me a movie or give me the game, don't try to give me both if you can;t.
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KvP

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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #9 on: 10 Sep 2007, 19:42 »

you are the reverse of everything I know

Well, you misunderstand a bit.

Part of the pain of playing the game is playing the 10 minutes of alright espionage gameplay followed by 30 minutes of plot. It's so unbalanced in its presentation that it's just not worth the hassle. Give me a movie or give me the game, don't try to give me both if you can;t.
The LE of MGS3 came with an extra disc that contained all of the FMVs as a sort of movie, so you might want to check that out (good luck if you do, it fetches a pretty penny, I hear)

But that is one of the poorer aspects of the games. Some people prefer that kind of separation of plot and gameplay, but my preference is active participation in the plot ala RPGs or, failing that, seamless integration of the plot into gameplay, as in Bioshock. But as it stands I don't particularly mind sitting through all of the stuff MGS throws at me. Kojima will sometimes screw over players who don't pay attention, as with the torture sequence in MGS3.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #10 on: 11 Sep 2007, 07:16 »

The original Metal Gear Solid was one of the best games for Playstation. It still is one of the best games ever made and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dumbhead.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #11 on: 11 Sep 2007, 15:48 »

THIB ITH MA THREASD!!!!!


Personally, I found the balance between plot and gameplay in the metal gear series carefully planned. There are people who welcomed the 45 minute long cut scenes because it was a break in the (often tedious) gameplay, but there are also people who loved the gameplay and hated the (often tedious) cutscenes.

I always found, that no matter what side of the fence I was sitting on while I was playing that I could enjoy the game no matter what was going on. While I was fighting the ninja, the cat was playing with the joystick. During the hour long explanation about Snake's origins, I made a sandwich. It had pig and cheese and ketchup. What an awesome game.

PS. The room ain't spinning as much now you guys.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #12 on: 12 Sep 2007, 22:16 »

Kotaku's reporting that some magazine has a quote from Christian Bale saying he's in talks to play Solid Snake in the upcoming MGS movie. Just thought I'd throw that in.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #13 on: 12 Sep 2007, 23:03 »

Bale's had a lot of practice playing humorless characters, so that might work.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #14 on: 14 Sep 2007, 12:58 »

damnit. i love Christian Bale but if Kurt Russel doesn't play Snake i'll be pretty bummed. i mean....Solid Snake was based on Snake Pliskin (kurt russel) to begin with. Christian Bale is too young anyway.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #15 on: 14 Sep 2007, 14:45 »

Needs to be dubbed with David Hayter imitating Kurt Russel playing the role of pliskin as snake...

yeah... wait wut?
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #16 on: 14 Sep 2007, 14:48 »

...or david hayter imitating Russel as Snake Pliskin dubbed over Christian Bale playing Solid Snake? Now that sounds like a solid film right there.
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Re: Metal Gear Solid
« Reply #17 on: 14 Sep 2007, 15:11 »

Yeah, it wouldn't be the same without Hayter's voice.

There'd need to be either some serious dubbing, or some serious voice training.
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