Topic: Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows (w/Spoilers) (Read 69952 times)

Faker · « **Reply #50 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 01:25 »

Well finished it last night and have to say it is probably one of the best of the series, maybe even the best. I agree with lots of people in that the epilogue was a bit too “happy ever after” for my liking but at the same time I understand that it was pretty much necessary.

Don’t agree with the Hedwig’s death was pointless argument, I think it gave a good sense that no character, no matter how major or minor, was safe over the course of what would follow.

I liked Snape’s redemption although part of me did want him to be evil, if only to show that Dumbledore could get some things wrong.

Other moments I liked were little things like Harry finding the picture of himself as a toddler zipping around on a toy broomstick, and the Mrs Weasley / Bellatrix moment, soon as I read THAT piece of dialogue my mind went straight to Ripley in Aliens!

As for tear jerking moments, obviously I’m too much of a bloody bloke to cry at a book but came close during Harry’s walk to the Forbidden Forest when his parents and Sirius’s “ghosts” are talking to him.

0bsessions · « **Reply #51 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 07:13 »

Quote from: axerton on 23 Jul 2007, 17:03

All she said was that there would be a late bloomer and I think that was Neville really stepping up to take over the DA, then killing Nagini.

Actually, I found it and it was most definitely about someone using magic quite late in life. Allegedly, though, this quote may have come before Half-Blood Prince, so it could have been referring to Merope Gaunt.

Quote from: Faker on 24 Jul 2007, 01:25

I liked Snape’s redemption although part of me did want him to be evil, if only to show that Dumbledore could get some things wrong.

Well, to be fair, we did get that idea. He was wrong about Grindelwald, if you recall. All in all, Dumbledore turned out to be kind of a prick.

pilsner · « **Reply #52 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 08:24 »

Not to mention the whole "HAI AN EVIL ARTIFACT I WILL USE IT TO RESSURECT MY DEAD SISTER OH NOES I AM DYING" thing. You can't get quite more fallible than using the repository of your arch-enemy's split soul to try to bring back the sister you were partially responsible for killing. My favorite parts of the book were the revelations that Dumbledore was quite mistaken and far from blameless, and that Snape had probably suffered more than most to protect the students and bring down Voldemort. Even if he was arguably doing it for the wrong reasons.

I am confident that Rowling's main motivation for that epilogue was to prevent other authors from adding books to the series later on. She said pretty explicitly in interviews that she would do her best to prevent this from happening (probably thinking of Tolkein and Herbert) and frankly aside from killing off every major character or stating point blank "and so nothing interesting happened to anyone you care about in this story ever again", I don't see what else she could have done.

Not that this was stop an enterprising author from writing the "Albus Severus vs. Draco's kid" sequel where Albus has the invisibility cloak and Draco has a converted muggle gun that shoots fiendfire, but whatever.

Also: Harry with two wands after the duel against Voldemort? Pimpin'

Storm Rider · « **Reply #53 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 11:46 »

Anybody else get a really creepy stalker-ish vibe when Luna had the huge portraits of the Gryffindor kids with the word 'friends' repeated over and over?

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #54 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 11:50 »

Aw, I thought it was sad. Like, poor Luna has some friends now.

Of course, now whenever I read that passage, I will. Thanks so much.

Thene · « **Reply #55 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 14:23 »

Anybody else find it funny how Ron tried to start a rivalry between his kids and Malfoy's kid? I found it pretty cool how Neville went on to become a teacher. I would have thought that for sure Hermione would be the transfiguration teacher or something. I always thought that after defeating Voldemort Harry would go on to play quiditch for England,but because of the lack of closure I never found out. I want her to write another book just so that I know what hapened during those two decades. I wanna know about teddy and the rebuilding of the society after the collapse of Voldemort.

Ernest · « **Reply #56 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 14:26 »

Quote from: Dark Flame on 23 Jul 2007, 22:58

As usual with Harry Potter, the story was fun, the writing was fairly dreadful. I found it also crammed too full of useless things. The wandering at the beginning lasted far too long; Rowling's writing it's strong enough to get her through periods where there isn't a ton of excitement. The narrow escapes from Voldemort also happened way too often. One or two would've been nice, but they just kept on happening, which was rather annoying. I'm happy overall that she didn't kill Harry though, it just wouldn't have fit with how she set the books up to this point. And I agree with Daniel, Draco needed a ton of development.

Oh, and the last half of the book was far too cluttered. I think the length was about right, just used poorly. I had fun reading it though.

That is exactly how I feel about the book. Exactly.

Lines · « **Reply #57 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 15:27 »

Quote from: Storm Rider on 24 Jul 2007, 11:46

Anybody else get a really creepy stalker-ish vibe when Luna had the huge portraits of the Gryffindor kids with the word 'friends' repeated over and over?

Aww, I thought it was sweet. She probably had no friends until that year of OotP (her 4th?) and it showed how much she liked them. So kinda sweet and sad at the same time.

Ally · « **Reply #58 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 16:15 »

I agree Linds! That part made me grin. I'm glad Luna didn't die; for some reason, I thought she would.

Also, if Victoire and Teddy had kids, would their children be full werewolves? Half-werewolves? No werewolf blood at all? Harry Potter genetics!

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #59 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 16:17 »

Ooh, sexy veelawolves.

0bsessions · « **Reply #60 on:** 24 Jul 2007, 16:25 »

Quote from: Ally on 24 Jul 2007, 16:15

I agree Linds! That part made me grin. I'm glad Luna didn't die; for some reason, I thought she would.

Also, if Victoire and Teddy had kids, would their children be full werewolves? Half-werewolves? No werewolf blood at all? Harry Potter genetics!

Indeterminable on the info we have. It's not explicitly stated whether or not Teddy actually had any werewolf tendencies, though it's unlikely as it likely would've come up as he was a few months old by the end of the main story. The kid would have good odds of being a metamorphmagus as he was one of those (As his hands changed sizes and hair changed color soon after birth.

LeeZion · « **Reply #61 on:** 25 Jul 2007, 14:23 »

Quote from: Linds on 24 Jul 2007, 15:27

Quote from: Storm Rider on 24 Jul 2007, 11:46
Anybody else get a really creepy stalker-ish vibe when Luna had the huge portraits of the Gryffindor kids with the word 'friends' repeated over and over?

Aww, I thought it was sweet. She probably had no friends until that year of OotP (her 4th?) and it showed how much she liked them. So kinda sweet and sad at the same time.

The sad thing about Luna is it's hard for her to make friends. She lost her mother, and her father's an eccentric with a fancy for Crumple Horned Snackacks or whatever they're called. She doesn't have too many role models, so it's no wonder she'd simultaneously be introverted AND speak so directly that it makes other people uncomfortable. The DA was one of the few places where she could shine, and where people accepted her despite her idiosyncracies.

Also, no mention of slashfics this time.

jesswah · « **Reply #62 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 05:58 »

I really wanted the Crumple-Horned Snorkacks' existence to be proven in the end. There were so many things not explained or resolved properly, which, I guess adds to the 'mystique' of Harry Potter or whatever. But still, frustrating, it's nice to have most things wrapped up at the end of a series, even if not as specific as Crumple-Horned Snorkacks.

0bsessions · « **Reply #63 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 08:54 »

For those of you wondering, a couple things spilled:

Harry and Ron ended up as Aurors who "revolutionized the Auror department" and Hermoine ends up as a high ranking person in the department of magical law enforcement.

Source

The original epilogue was originally going to be much more fleshed out, allegedly.

Also, we'd all heard about two characters dying that didn't originally and one that got a reprieve. While she's yet to say who wasn't originally going to die (Though, I'd assume it was Lupin and Tonks), the character who got a reprieve was Arthur Weasley, saying her original intent was to kill him in book five, presumably when Nagini attacked him. She says she couldn't go through with it.

The Hogwarts headmaster "Nineteen Years Later" is an unknown new person, as anyone else fitting the role would've gotten old by then.

She does plan to try and do the encyclopedia, but not anytime immediately soon.

NBC will be having an interview with Rowling that will likely answer more tomorrow morning, and they'll be showing a Harry Potter special at 7 PM (Easten Time US) on Sunday.

The more you know.

Edit: You know, I didn't realize it until just now, but with James dead already, Sirius' death in book five and all the deaths in this installment all five of the Marauders are dead.

Lyrics · « **Reply #64 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 13:49 »

4 Marauders actually.

But like many others I wondered what harry did in the time between the end and the epilogue, why his kids don't know who he is to the wizarding world. What happened to Umbridge? What happened to the Cattermoles?

0bsessions · « **Reply #65 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 13:56 »

I wish I knew how to count.

axerton · « **Reply #66 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 19:02 »

Shh, you can pretend you were counting Lilly as one of the Marauders.

Lyrics · « **Reply #67 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 19:16 »

even though Lily hated James back then?
Lets say you were counting harry as #5 as he inherited the map anyway.

sha'mad conde · « **Reply #68 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 19:25 »

Quote from: 0bsessions on 26 Jul 2007, 08:54

Source

Here is a more in depth text version of that same interview, including what happens to Luna, Ron, Harry, and Herm's Jobs, etc.

pilsner · « **Reply #69 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 22:09 »

Obsessions, that interview is hilarious. Watch as JK scares the shit out of small children.

Bunnyman · « **Reply #70 on:** 28 Jul 2007, 00:41 »

TheFuriousWombat · « **Reply #71 on:** 28 Jul 2007, 09:02 »

Wow, I'm gonna have to sig that on forums where it's ok because that is the brilliant. Can't make this stuff up.

pilsner · « **Reply #72 on:** 28 Jul 2007, 12:29 »

23% buy Venus in Furs by Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch.

the_shankmaster · « **Reply #73 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 00:40 »

I was pretty mad at Tonks and Lupin. One of them should have stayed back. I mean, Tonks just lost her father. Couldn't she see how her child would feel as an orphan?

I wanted Harry to stay dead, but there were still so many pages left, I knew JK would weasel her way out of it. I didn't like that whole sequence where he talks to Dumbledore and I didn't like how he had the spirits or whatever they were of the people he loved with him when he went to his "death." Who else gets that? Who else gets to see their loved ones once they've died? Then again, I've always hated Harry, so my opinion probably doesn't matter much.

Mad-Eye died so early that it didn't have any sort of impact on me. I hadn't gotten myself emotionally involved in the book yet and she killed someone.

That Ginny/Harry scene on his birthday was horribly written. JK has all the romance writing skills of George Lucas.

I agree with everyone else who said too much of the book was devoted to them doing nothing.

Does anyone else think this whole Deathly Hallows thing was kind of random? I mean, I can't say how long she's been planning it, but the mention was kind of late. Halfway through the book and suddenly there are these things that can cheat death that are gonna distract Harry from his quest.

Ernest · « **Reply #74 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 07:31 »

Quote from: the_shankmaster on 31 Jul 2007, 00:40

Does anyone else think this whole Deathly Hallows thing was kind of random?

Yes. They were also trite and stupid. I am so effing pissed at Rowling. I feel like I still haven't read the seventh book because there's no way that could have been the seventh book. Did I mention it feels like she wrote it in one fucking draft? Bitch needs to give us a real final book.

0bsessions · « **Reply #75 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 07:43 »

Well, I was satisfied with it.

StaedlerMars · « **Reply #76 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:00 »

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was well written and the story was excellent.

It was a page turner, and I was happy about the conclusion.

(I also read somewhere that Ron now runs the weasley brothers store along with george, and Ginny plays for that all women quiditch team)

Dimmukane · « **Reply #77 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:09 »

She's stated in an interview that Harry and Ron have revolutionized the Auror's department and Harry's head Auror, and Hermione is high up in the Magical Law Enforcement department. She hasn't said anything about anyone else yet, at least not from that interview.

Ernest · « **Reply #78 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:45 »

Well, I wish she'd included that in her half-assed epilogue!

0bsessions · « **Reply #79 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:48 »

You should really check the interview. She said that she originally had it in there, but felt that throwing too much into the brief epilogue would water it down.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #80 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:52 »

She also explained that she wanted everyone who read it to be desperately confused.

0bsessions · « **Reply #81 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 08:54 »

Curious, maybe, but confused? There's nothing confusing in there. Confusion is sewn by things that don't add up. Everything that was presented added up fine, she just withheld some details.

Ernest · « **Reply #82 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 09:05 »

Quote from: 0bsessions on 31 Jul 2007, 08:48

You should really check the interview. She said that she originally had it in there, but felt that throwing too much into the brief epilogue would water it down.

Well, she was fucking wrong.

Lines · « **Reply #83 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 09:33 »

No, you just want to know freaking everything. She plainly states that in the interview that she has to deal with fans like this, but it's not about what the fans want. It's about her writing the book. She's happy with it. I was satisfied with it. No offense, but it's a book, not the end of the world. Yes, she could have put more in there, but she didn't want to.

0bsessions · « **Reply #84 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 09:36 »

Yeah, the vast majority of people I've spoken to were overall satisfied with the book. First and foremost, it needs to be noted that this is kind of a children's book. He beat the bad guy, he got the girl, happily ever after...that's really all that needs to be said. Would you have preferred the like five endings Lord of the Rings had followed by 100 pages of appendices detailing with what became of Faromir's second cousin Ned? Happily ever after, the end!

Ernest · « **Reply #85 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:00 »

Quote from: Linds on 31 Jul 2007, 09:33

Yes, she could have put more in there, but she didn't want to.

And I'm saying she should have. I guess I should mention that I really wanted to like this book, I really did, and after I finished it I almost convinced myself that it was alright, but now I just hate it. I'm so pissed she made such a half-assed effort to wrap everything up. This is the final fucking book, for chrissakes! If you've got to slave over one to make it really good, it's THIS FUCKING ONE!

I wanted the epilogue to include Voldemort's trip to the afterlife. For instance, maybe he talks to Dumbledore.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #86 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:14 »

We did see Voldemort in the afterlife with Dumbledore.

StaedlerMars · « **Reply #87 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:19 »

Quote from: Dimmukane on 31 Jul 2007, 08:09

She's stated in an interview that Harry and Ron have revolutionized the Auror's department and Harry's head Auror, and Hermione is high up in the Magical Law Enforcement department. She hasn't said anything about anyone else yet, at least not from that interview.

this seems to be more complete.

0bsessions · « **Reply #88 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:20 »

It's kind of hard to see much of Voldemort in the afterlife as his soul was utterly destroyed. That's what that little, pathetic thing was at King's Crossing. The way he made the Horcruxes, he assumed he'd live forever and thus essentially forfeited the possibility of an afterlife. This was made very clear through the course of books six and seven.

Edit: That second interview seems to contradict the former. She was previously saying that Ron was an Auror as well.

Ernest · « **Reply #89 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:31 »

Maybe then she could have had a seen where Voldemort goes to King's Cross but Dumbledore tells him he can't go on and the souls of all his victims block his progress.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #90 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:35 »

Dude, we saw what Voldemort's soul would look like in King's Cross. There were only two fragments left at the end, the one in Voldie and the one in Harry -- the other six fragments were vaped by Harry and Dumbledore. There isn't enough soul left for Voldemort to go to the afterlife.

Caiphana · « **Reply #91 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:46 »

Let's get geeky for a minute, shall we?

When you create a Horcrux, half of your soul gets put in something else. Lord Thingy made seven Horcruxes (Harry was accidental; he thought that he had made his sixth and final Horcrux with Nagini, though she was really his seventh). First one left him with half a soul. Second with a quarter. Third with an eighth. Fourth with a sixteenth. Thirty-secondth. Sixty-fourth (that one was Harry... that weird baby thing was all that that portion was). Nagini had 1/128th of a soul. Lord Thingy HIMSELF had 1/256th of a soul. Wow.

Ernest · « **Reply #92 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:50 »

Quote from: TrekkieTechie on 31 Jul 2007, 12:35

Dude, we saw what Voldemort's soul would look like in King's Cross. There were only two fragments left at the end, the one in Voldie and the one in Harry -- the other six fragments were vaped by Harry and Dumbledore. There isn't enough soul left for Voldemort to go to the afterlife.

I liked the King's Cross chapter, but the random pathetic Voldemort soul was pretty lame. Why would he be there? He hadn't died yet or come close to death (as Harry just had)?

Caiphana · « **Reply #93 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:52 »

Lord Thingy died just like Harry did. Remember? Both of them passed out. He went to the same place that Harry did, but he probably saw something completely different.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #94 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 12:57 »

You're both a bit off. When the Dark Wanker hit Harry with the AK, it killed the soul fragment that was inside Harry. That's why there was a soul fragment with harry at King's Cross.

0bsessions · « **Reply #95 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 13:04 »

Trekkie's half correct. What was at King's Cross was not the little bit of soul in Harry, as that was destroyed by Voldemort's killing curse. That was what was left of Voldemort's soul in his own body. All that was left was that little bit and the horcrux in Nagini. There was really no hope of an afterlife for Voldemort.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #96 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 13:13 »

Why the hell would the Dark Wanker's active soul fragment go to King's Cross with a dead Harry and a dead Dumbledore? Voldie was still using it. The fragment in King's Cross is the fragment that was in Harry, that was killed by Voldie's AK.

Ernest · « **Reply #97 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 13:21 »

Basically then all of the fragments of Voldemort's soul except for the one in Nagini should have been there.

0bsessions · « **Reply #98 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 13:51 »

Quote from: TrekkieTechie on 31 Jul 2007, 13:13

Why the hell would the Dark Wanker's active soul fragment go to King's Cross with a dead Harry and a dead Dumbledore? Voldie was still using it. The fragment in King's Cross is the fragment that was in Harry, that was killed by Voldie's AK.

Because when he hit Harry with that spell, he damn near killed himself, too. It's explicitely stated that when you destroy a Horcrux, you destroy the soul contained within. The Horcrux in Harry was done, finito, gone; it wouldn't have been at King's Cross with him.

Quote from: Flaming Ostrich on 31 Jul 2007, 13:21

Basically then all of the fragments of Voldemort's soul except for the one in Nagini should have been there.

I get the feeling you really just don't want to like this book or you skimmed it. I recommend going back and reading it. The Horcruxes were destroyed, and with them the fragments of Voldemort's soul were destroyed utterly. If they merely moved onto the afterlife indivudally, there would be no consequence for him, as they'd be together again once all the horcruxes were destroyed.

Am I the only one who read Prisoner of Azkaban, Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince? The details are all in there.

PoA: The reason the Dementor's Kiss is so feared and horrible is that they suck out your soul. It's referred to it as "a fate worse than death."
OoTP: When battling Voldemort, Dumbledore tells him that there are fates worse than death. Voldemort scoffs at the idea.
HBP: Harry discovers what a Horcrux is from Slughorn and that Riddle had sought him with inquiries on them. He learns that you contain a piece of your soul in it and Dumbledore reveals to him that if said Horcrux is destroyed, so is the piece of soul inside.
DH: Harry destroys all of Voldemort's Horcruxes with his friends' help, thus destroying Voldemort's Soul, essentially. A fate worse than death when we take the simple logic introduced throughout the prior books.

Don't overthink it, it's a simple line of retionale introduced for a children's book. Overthinking it just ruins it. Not everything in life and literature has to be a complex series of riddles.

TrekkieTechie · « **Reply #99 on:** 31 Jul 2007, 15:44 »

Quote from: 0bsessions on 31 Jul 2007, 13:51

It's explicitely stated that when you destroy a Horcrux, you destroy the soul contained within. The Horcrux in Harry was done, finito, gone; it wouldn't have been at King's Cross with him.

Yes -- they were destroyed. If you AK something, it dies, it isn't destroyed.

Six fragments were destroyed utterly by basilisk venom and Fiendfyre. One was AK'ed by Voldie himself when he attacked Harry -- this is the one that was trapped in King's Cross, "beyond help" because it was too damaged and maimed to make the journey to the afterlife. The final soul fragment was the one remaining in Voldemort during the Final Battle, which was killed when his AK rebounded on himself. This soul fragment, presumably identical to the maimed thing that was in King's Cross, is now stuck in limbo along with the other, because you can't go to the afterlife unless you have a complete soul.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows (w/Spoilers) (Read 69952 times)

Thene

Ally

jesswah

Bunnyman