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Author Topic: Fallout 3  (Read 330634 times)

Avec

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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #800 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:16 »

Or online multiplayer.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #801 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:20 »

It's not a straw man, you literally just wrote "I agree with this" in reference to someone bemoaning the lack of penalties for playing the game a certain way.
The use of the word "penalty" reminds me of the hubbub over the defense spending bill that Obama is trying to pass. The congressional Republicans wanted to increase spending by 6%. Obama wants to increase it by 4%. The Repubs have been pushing the idea that Obama is "cutting" defense spending, when in actuality he's just spending less than the Repubs would like. The guy's being criticized for promoting "penalties", when in actuality he's not advocating for putting more obstacles in front of the player so much as giving the player less ridiculous superpower to overcome any and every combat in the game. There is a distinction between "take away" and "give less".

I didn't have any of the problems you're describing with VATS and while I used it a lot it didn't actually guarantee wins at any point and I still died on a regular enough basis?
Did you make a point to charge and headshot any enemy who proved difficult? It really was a "win button", provided you had good AG and weren't using the sniper rifle. That some people didn't use it doesn't make it any less of a design flaw.

By no means should VATS be actually removed from the game in any measurable way. Combat without VATS is like ranged combat in Oblivion which is to say, it is completely unexciting. It just needs to be tempered.

But I suppose we'll see how it goes. JE Sawyer's in charge of the project, and unless Bethsoft decrees otherwise I'm sure he'll fiddle with VATS until he's satisfied with it. He was always a consummate Systems Man.
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2009, 17:24 by KvP »
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #802 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:26 »

I have to sit and agree with John here.

I think VATS is a really good starting point, but not nearly enough thought went into the actual mechanics of the system. I think there's a lot of tweaking for balance that needs to be done to it before it can be great. As of now, it's a great idea with an alright execution.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #803 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:32 »

Or online multiplayer.

Nah, I don't think that will work well.

also, make the DLC's easier to access for PC players.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #804 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:34 »

Hell, make them work when they're released period would be nice.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #805 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:35 »

I wonder if F:NV will even have DLC. And as far as I know the F3 DLC ends with Broken Steel.

Last time I heard the Fallout MMO rights are being taken back from Interplay, so the MMO will happen sometime, probably many years in the future.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #806 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:40 »

Specifically, is the dispute over the lack of difficulty while using VATS? If so, I'm pretty sure you could adjust the level of difficulty for a more enjoyable game play. I saw nothing wrong with VATS, so much so that when I completed approximately a quarter of the game I picked up Lincoln's repeater and played the game for that feeling of storming through towns, and delivering genocide on a plate. This feels like one of those situations where you're disagreeing just to disagree.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #807 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:43 »

That's not something I do. There isn't a single game in existence that cannot be improved upon in some way. VATS is one of several things in Fallout 3 that were good but flawed.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #808 on: 02 May 2009, 15:56 »

Broken Steel Preview

tl;dr Broken steel will remove Fallout 3's stupid ending, and add shitload of new weapons and some new enemies.

I might actually get this DLC.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2009, 18:53 by Zombiedude »
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #809 on: 02 May 2009, 17:09 »

What? May fifth? Is it possible to throw those DLCs out even faster?

I must have been playing and waiting too much Half-Life 2, with their year-long release intervals. I hope the three DLCs will be available in one pack somewhere. And by 'somewhere' I mean 'anywhere but GFWL'.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #810 on: 02 May 2009, 19:11 »

FUCK YEAH, I borrowed my copy of the game. This time I do have intentions of buying the upgraded version though.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #811 on: 09 May 2009, 00:11 »

So.

I reinstalled Fallout 3 and am probably going to buy some content. Broken Steel sounds like a given, but are The Pitt or Operation Anchorage any good? Don't fail me now, internet.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #812 on: 09 May 2009, 01:26 »

Historical notice: this all happened months ago.

So my roommate got Fallout 3 and after a while his 360 glitched it out, and he got a new copy but it still glitched and he got frustrated and put it on the shelf. In his absence I took up the reins on my own 360 and played for about 20ish hours over the course of a couple weeks.

Then one day I put it down and haven't gone back to it since.

I think about it now and there's just no desire to go back to it. On paper, it's brilliant and should entertain me for hundreds of hours. But these days, whenever I feel compelled to play an action-RPG, my mind jumps immediately to either Fable II, Mass Effect, or Oblivion.

Did anyone feel similarly, or should I go incarcerate myself?
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #813 on: 09 May 2009, 03:03 »

So.

I reinstalled Fallout 3 and am probably going to buy some content. Broken Steel sounds like a given, but are The Pitt or Operation Anchorage any good? Don't fail me now, internet.

From what I understand the Pitt is pretty alright and Anchorage is a bit of a non-starter.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #814 on: 10 May 2009, 18:53 »

I know absolutely nothing about game design but I'm curious as to how you could create a game as rich and rewarding as the one I just played for literally 120 hours over the last few months (being Fallout 3, my first and only Fallout game) in a year. It's going to get pushed back, right? I mean I know there's already an engine for it but there's still a lot of work. Especially if we're talking about a similar scale to Fallout 3. I suppose if you had enough people, it might be feasible.

Regarding all the still hilarious a-bloo-blooo-blooing from Fallout nerds. There was nothing wrong with VATS but it was also completely optional. Surely you should just be grateful that they attempted something to appease fans of turn-based combat? They provided an alternative method of playing the game to try to accommodate as many people as possible and somehow it's a bad thing? Fallout 1 and 2 already exist. There's no need to make them again.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #815 on: 10 May 2009, 18:58 »

Actually, VATS was something that most Fallout nerds probably appreciated. The main thing that most Fallout nerds miss is the quality of writing from the earlier games.

Personally I'm hoping Las Vegas does get pushed back as I'm rather looking forward to seeing some of the original Fallout writers get ahold of the franchise again and I'd prefer the chances of problems being minimized.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #816 on: 10 May 2009, 19:11 »

New Vegas isn't being developed by Bethesda, only published by them. I'd put money on it sucking, one way or another.

Also Tommy I don't know what you're saying about VATS, because it was basically to make the game more like Fallout 1 & 2 and less like Oblivion.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #817 on: 10 May 2009, 19:17 »

Obsidian getting it at least guarantees that the writing will be much improved.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #818 on: 10 May 2009, 19:24 »

Also Tommy I don't know what you're saying about VATS, because it was basically to make the game more like Fallout 1 & 2 and less like Oblivion.

That is exactly what I am saying. They tried to make what was essentially an FPS with some RPG stuff thrown in there palatable to people who were used to turn-based combat and I think it was largely successful. However, if this made it too easy or you disliked the execution, you could just not use VATS at all. Nobody came to your house and pressed the VATS button. In fact most of the time I didn't use it through sheer absent-mindedness or just because I spent most of my time sniping with scoped weapons which enabled me to shoot more effectively than VATS at long range.

They gave us all a choice! We should be grateful for things like that.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #819 on: 10 May 2009, 19:39 »

It's not really a choice, though! I mean have you played Fallout 3 without VATS? Goddamn it's dull. VATS is Fallout 3's appeal, in combat at least.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #820 on: 10 May 2009, 20:11 »

It's not that dull.  It ends up being like a really gory FPS if you go into combat without VATS.  Which is totally fine by me, it gives me a break from the slo-mo stuff.  I just got Broken Steel and have been shooting bunches of dudes into pieces without VATS.  It feels a lot more like a firefight this way (because I'm now typically encountering 2-3 Enclave Soldiers/Deathclaws at once), and I'm less pissed off when my shots miss because I'm not worried about accuracy percentages.  I go back and forth between the two and just in general have a blast. 
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #821 on: 10 May 2009, 21:02 »

Broken Steel is pretty cool. I finished the main quest line yesterday, but there are a couple sidequests I haven't started yet so I don't know how good they are. The reason I bought it (and why I didn't buy either of the previous two) was the increased level cap. Some of the new perks are pretty cool, although I haven't gotten to 30 yet so I can't grab either of the crazy max level ones.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #822 on: 10 May 2009, 22:00 »

I bought Broken Steel for the PC, and am almost regretting it. On one hand, it's nice playing Fallout again. On the other, holy shit it is still a buggy mess. I crash every other minute.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #823 on: 10 May 2009, 22:32 »

Bethesda is kind of terrible at this.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #824 on: 10 May 2009, 23:56 »

Well, the 360 version is fine!
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #825 on: 11 May 2009, 00:08 »

New Vegas isn't being developed by Bethesda, only published by them. I'd put money on it sucking, one way or another.

You're aware it's Black Isle developing, right?
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #826 on: 11 May 2009, 00:44 »

Obsidian. Black Isle hasn't existed since 2003.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #827 on: 11 May 2009, 01:17 »

Close enough.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #828 on: 11 May 2009, 01:37 »

It's not really a choice, though! I mean have you played Fallout 3 without VATS?

Yes and it was one of the most endlessly rewarding games I have ever played. Combat was only part of it. Voice acting aside, the scenery, storyline and the incredibly varied points of interest made it head and shoulders above practically every other FPS/RPG game I have played outside of the Half-Life series.

Saying "there was no choice" when there patently was one is a weird argument. I probably used VATS about one in twenty times I engaged in combat and very seldom did it actually kill what I was shooting at.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #829 on: 11 May 2009, 03:11 »

Sniping, for example, is balls in VATS.
And yet so incredibly rewarding when you blow off a mutant's head from hundreds of meters away.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #830 on: 11 May 2009, 13:42 »

Has there been any news on a all-in-one DLC pack? Is there already one out?

Anyways
I know absolutely nothing about game design but I'm curious as to how you could create a game as rich and rewarding as the one I just played for literally 120 hours over the last few months (being Fallout 3, my first and only Fallout game) in a year. I

Have you ever played around with Morrowind's or Oblivion's construction sets? I'm guessing that they made something similar for Fallout 3, and once you have that set down, development becomes piss easy. Everyone and his mother can make some reasonably interesting missions for Morrowind, or Oblivion if they know any voice actors. So 1 year will be hard, but as long as they don't have to change that much, they should be able to do it.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #831 on: 11 May 2009, 17:39 »

Has there been any news on a all-in-one DLC pack? Is there already one out?
There will be a retail release similar to the DVD of Shivering Isles in Oblivion day.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #833 on: 19 May 2009, 14:56 »

They're selling the DLCs by retail in packs of two? That sucks. Why can't they put all of the new content in one pack? If they keep this assery up I might as well pirate the GOTY edition.

But...

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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #834 on: 19 May 2009, 14:59 »

They're also going to be selling a Game of the Year addition around October that has all the packs in it, including Point Lookout and Mothership Zeta, or at least that's what Kotaku says.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #835 on: 19 May 2009, 15:00 »

Combatting assery by pirating is basically entering yourself into the world's biggest douchebag competition.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #836 on: 19 May 2009, 15:08 »

They're also going to be selling a Game of the Year addition around October that has all the packs in it, including Point Lookout and Mothership Zeta, or at least that's what Kotaku says.

The interview said the same, but that edition (not addition, right?) includes Fallout 3. I have Fallout 3, I just want the damn DLCs without having to go through too much trouble. I'm looking at you, GFWL. If that makes me world's biggest douche, hell if I care.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #837 on: 19 May 2009, 15:23 »

i haven't downloaded any of the content and i don't plan to. i'll trade in Fallout 3 some time in the next couple of months and then buy the GOTY edition when it comes out with all of them. it's much simpler and cheaper that way, plus they'll have resolved most/all of the issues by then anyway.

then again, i don't even have the internet so i couldn't download these if i wanted to. meh.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #838 on: 21 May 2009, 13:19 »

I have the PS3 version, do all the new content patches come out in October that will enable me to play all of them? Or is there something more going on?
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #839 on: 21 May 2009, 13:59 »

You're getting them sometime in the summer, at least the first 3, but there's going to be a DLC disk/GOTY edition (I'm not sure if this is for the 360 only, though) in September/October.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #840 on: 21 May 2009, 14:45 »

I'll wait till september then.

Though I am looking forward to becoming a fully paid up member of the brotherhood of steel.

Its odd reading about how different people play things my characters are always good, I can't really play the evil game very well, I don't like hurting people who haven't hurt me. I don't see the attraction of playing the badie unless you can make it so hammy it tastes like pork loin or getting a sympathetic reason behind it, as is in most RPG's you don't get a reason to be evil, you get an excuse instead.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #841 on: 11 Jun 2009, 22:58 »

No, you combat it by not buying their shit.  By taking it one step further and pirating it you are in the wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I used to do it and sometimes still do, but I don't hide behind some kind of moral bullshit shield, I know what I do is wrong and accept that.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #842 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:01 »

That's not really how it works, no. The response of the gaming industry to piracy has been to move its business towards outlets that at least make pirates work harder for their freeloading, ie consoles. This has been the trend over the last console cycle. Piracy is a short-term solution to consumer dissatisfaction, but the fact that people are pirating PC games means that people want to play PC games. The more people dislike gaming publishers, the more piracy occurs, and the more piracy occurs the more the publishers will take their business elsewhere. Consumers will ultimately lose. Thieves always think they've got it made until the merchants skip town.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #843 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:08 »

Exactly.

Piracy is not "how economics works". That's pretty much the worst, dumbest lie I've ever read.

Not buying it and not playing it is how economics works. You don't get to say "Well, I disagree with your methods but I still want your product so I'm stealing it now what nanny nanny boo boo". If you want to make a statement you just don't buy it or pirate it period. That is how capitalism works.

Piracy just means more consumers suffer.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #844 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:15 »

You're like 12 right?
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #845 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:17 »

Seriously.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #846 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:26 »

Sing it, brother.  Blow the lid off the whole capitalist conspiracy.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #847 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:34 »

and I still think that it is a rationalisation on your behalf to think that anything other than boycotting a product is proper in such a situation.

Think outside the immediate monetary exchange.  If you play the game you are contributing to the community surrounding the game, enhancing the game's desirability to others.  A person wanting to buy and play a game online may think twice about buying it if they know no-one else will be online to play against, but they may consider it if there is a thriving community, whether the people in the community are paying members or not.
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Ozymandias

Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #848 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:37 »

Oh man.

Fuck yeah.

Fight the power. You are a fuckin' rebel sitting there behind your computer clicking "download torrent". You are the motherfuckin' front lines in the revolution.
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Re: Fallout 3
« Reply #849 on: 11 Jun 2009, 23:39 »

also, the makers of these games don't owe you anything.  If you like their product and you want their product then you either pay what they are asking for it or if you disagree with the pricing you do what I do and wait a couple months for it to no longer be a new release and buy it second hand/on sale or when it just naturally becomes less expensive due to not being brand new.
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