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Author Topic: Dark Knight Strikes Again  (Read 6800 times)

Ishotdanieljohnston

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Dark Knight Strikes Again
« on: 22 Jun 2007, 22:52 »

I read it a couple of months ago and really loved it. I didn't know what to expect... but came away haunted by Miller's disturbing vision of the post 9/11 world. I know alot of people thought it was crap... and admittedly it isn't the masterpiece that Returns is- but I don't think it's trying to be.

I was just wondering what people on here thought of it...
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #1 on: 22 Jun 2007, 22:57 »

Honestly, I thought Dark Knight Returns was overrated to begin with and Strikes Again was a definite step down from Returns. Honestly, I've never much gotten into Miller's style of writing outside of Batman: Year One. I've always found his dialogue a bit jarring. He seems to try too hard to be edgy and it just falls flat for me. For example:



Want a great Batman writer? Jeph fucking Loeb. The Long Halloween is, to me, the greatest Batman story ever.
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Ishotdanieljohnston

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #2 on: 22 Jun 2007, 23:57 »

Agreed- Jeph Loeb kicks all kind of ass. I think Miller has a reall good way of turning batman into a myth- something timeless and ageless. There's a real power to his visuals, structure and narrative.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jun 2007, 23:34 »



Okay it's a ridiculous panel and I hate that series but come on you could have at least dug back a little further. For example, the billionth time he has a male character call a female character "sweet chunks."
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #4 on: 25 Jun 2007, 06:48 »

Wait. Women don't like to be called sweet chunks?

Seriously, though. That one panel is, in my opinion, the single worst panel to come out of a DC comic this decade.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jun 2007, 23:25 »

Dark Knight Returns was my first step in to some of Miller's work, and I loved the hell out of it.  When I found out that there was a sequel, which of course had been out for a good few years by then, I pretty much went crazy looking for it.  After I did grab myself a copy and read through it I found myself extremely disappointed.  In my opinion I feel that Strikes Again suffers from To-Many-Heroes-That-Are-Not-Batman-In-A-Batman-Book fever.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #6 on: 26 Jun 2007, 08:58 »

I... being the overly leftist, felt that Miller hit the nail on the head by having Batman realize that going after petty criminals or supercriminals was a distraction from people who cause more chaos and harm to human society in general. I also found that he rewarded the comic savvy with all the other characters he had involved and the dilemnas they had to over come. *SPOILER* Additionally, freeing the people of Kandor to be world's most angry and powerful tiny people was awesome.

I can only think of one other comic story that comes close to it in theme and fun, the end of Silver/Bronze age Superman by Alan Moore.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #7 on: 26 Jun 2007, 09:13 »

Theme maybe, but I've never been able to find much real fun in reading Frank Miller. He just tends to be way too heavy handed most of the time.
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SeanBateman

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #8 on: 01 Jul 2007, 16:05 »

This has nothing to do with Miller's vision of a post 9/11 world. It's just a sequel, and it's a very good sequel, to a fucking great comic. It's not as good as the original, because nothing really could be, but it's really fucking good. And yeah, All Star was pretty silly, but honestly that panel isn't that bad at all. I like Miller's batman because its clear that he is fucking insane. He's consumed with his ideas of right and wrong and doesn't really have any grasp on reality. No compromise, no balance, just all evil punished, all the time. It's why he's so fukcing good.

Also, seriously, Jeph Loeb as a "great batman writer?" He is ONLY worthwhile as a creator when working with Tim Sale. Everything else that motherfucker does is the worst kind of hackjobs. He doesn't do anything original, he just takes other people's classic stories and rewrites them. It works when  Sale is giving him a classic vibe, but he can't carry an original story for shit.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #9 on: 03 Jul 2007, 22:10 »

Alright, tell you what. I'll draw you a compromise. Originally I wanted to write an epic diatrabe about how Loeb is great and such, but then I thought about his best works: Spider-Man Blue, Long Halloween, Dark Victory...every fucking one of them had Tim Sale involved, but that doesn't stop him from having some epic work. The Long Halloween is, in my opinion, not just one of the greatest Batman stories ever told, but one of the top comic book stories ever. The pair of Sale and Loeb is legendary, the likes of Claremont and Byrne or Lee and Ditko.

Other than that, I am trying so hard to refute you, but I am having the most horrendous bitch of a time trying to think of a classic story Loeb has done without Sale. Hulk Grey? Damn it...Daredevil Yellow? Fuck! Ummm....Wolverine? Well, that doesn't have Sale, but it's utter ass. Well, I personally quite loved his Superman/Batman run.
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Felix_

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #10 on: 04 Jul 2007, 17:27 »

The Long Halloween is, in my opinion, not just one of the greatest Batman stories ever told, but one of the top comic book stories ever. The pair of Sale and Loeb is legendary, the likes of Claremont and Byrne or Lee and Ditko.


Bingo.

You get a gold star.
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Jab

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #11 on: 06 Jul 2007, 12:23 »

The last issue of Dark Knight Strikes Again has gotta go down as one of the worst comics ever written. To end with THAT as your surprise villain, after a pretty good first couple issues (Supergirl frying Brainiac was awesome- "I'm not from Kansas you son of a bitch, I'm an AMAZON"), just reeked of "I'm not trying, so I'm just gonna do something super offensive and stupid as my big finale".
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #12 on: 06 Jul 2007, 18:32 »

I'm just thinking... um... well you're isolating the scene and ignoring the context but you thought that was the most offensive thing? I would have thought the bit with the Atom and Robin/Catgirl would have been a bit more offensive.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #13 on: 09 Jul 2007, 11:54 »

He didn't mean offensive in terms of like gore or grossness. I figure he meant offensive more in terms of offensively stupid and nonsensical and pretty much just a deliberate slap in the face to fans just to get a reaction and come off as shocking.
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #14 on: 09 Jul 2007, 19:13 »

so, has any one read Spider-man Reign?

and if so how do you feel it is next to the Dark Knight Returns?
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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #15 on: 10 Jul 2007, 05:48 »

I think it stands up quite closely, personally. Not quite as good, but in terms of Spider-Man, I think it worked perfectly.
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I've decided to give up psychology and become a peacock
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HPPH

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #16 on: 11 Jul 2007, 08:40 »

Well, there was nothing gorey in the Ray Palmer issue. Let me rephrase that:

I would have thought the bit with the Robin's(Dick Grayson) revelation of love would have been a bit more offensive. But then again, I'm only saying this to those who actually read the book and aren't just jumping on the anti Miller bandwagon.
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SeanBateman

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #17 on: 12 Jul 2007, 00:28 »

The last issue of Dark Knight Strikes Again has gotta go down as one of the worst comics ever written. To end with THAT as your surprise villain, after a pretty good first couple issues (Supergirl frying Brainiac was awesome- "I'm not from Kansas you son of a bitch, I'm an AMAZON"), just reeked of "I'm not trying, so I'm just gonna do something super offensive and stupid as my big finale".

You mean the secret evil reanimated Joker thing? That was great. That was simultaneously a reference to a defining aspect of Batman's character, but also one of the creepiest, most dangerous villains I had ever seen. Watching him take everyone down the whole series, and then just going fuckin all out on bats at the end was great.

Reign wasn't even trying to be it's own thing. Didn't touch DKR
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Jab

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #18 on: 23 Aug 2007, 00:29 »

He didn't mean offensive in terms of like gore or grossness. I figure he meant offensive more in terms of offensively stupid and nonsensical and pretty much just a deliberate slap in the face to fans just to get a reaction and come off as shocking.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. I guess Miller dislikes the character or something, but to make him the big secret villain and to basically call him a shit character from the beginning was just going a bit too far.
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Pegasus King

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Re: Dark Knight Strikes Again
« Reply #19 on: 26 Aug 2007, 17:48 »

I never read DKSA after reading Dark Knight Returns due to a lot of backlash about it over the internet. I plan on checking it out for myself eventually, but for now, I'll invest my time in other avenues of reading.

And Batman: Year One is one of the best interpretations of Batman, in any context, I've ever read. I think Miller signs best when he's just the writer, because his artwork lately has been kind of jarring and ugly. Not bad, just ugly. David Mazzucchelli is such a talented storyteller between Year One and Daredevil: Born Again.

I've only read one of the Sin City graphic novels. It was good, but didn't blow me off my feet. What I do realize is that a lot of Miller's work translates well to film.
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