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[bryanthelion]

Is any of her books worth reading?

Because I keep on hearing mixed reactions about her novels and I want to read them, but theres a chalk load of other books I need to read too!

[Johnny C]

I couldn't get through the first five pages of Atlas Shrugged.

[Mnementh]

I have read a book noone else has heard of.

Surely you jest?  Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are the bread and butter of late teenage wannabe-intellectuals everywhere.

[tomselleck69]

to stare into the void of true obscurity, take a peek in the 39 cent bin at your local paperback shop.

[KvP]

I've heard the books are a slog to read (haven't tried any myself) but her Objectivist ideology is a cornerstone of libertarian thought, as it is virulently individualistic and free-market capitalist, but bearing a special hatred of altruism borne of Rand's resentment towards her homeland of Soviet Russia. Even Hobbes made room for altruism in his social contracts (if another person is important to you, helping them can still be done with the self in mind), so Rand's views are pretty extreme, to say the least. She's pretty neglected for the most part by academics, but among hobbyists and rugged individualists out here in the American Midwest she's pretty popular. I personally find Objectivism repugnant.

She's actually pretty well represented in computer games, in Bioshock (the whole game is a big critique/imagining of an Objectivist society, and Andrew Ryan is a former soviet citizen and zealous capitalist, just like Rand) and also in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 (Where Kreia the teacher stands in for Rand and Sith philosophy is basically Objectivist) Angelina Jolie is also working on a film adaptation of Atlas Shrugged, last I heard.

[Storm Rider]

Ayn Rand was a hack who dedicated her life to constructing straw men defenses for acting like a complete jackass.

Note that I don't say 'hack' because I intensely disagree with her philosophy, but rather because she couldn't write worth shit.

[MusicScribbles]

If you want to read some stuff connected to Bioshock that isn't Ayn Rand (Because the game largely criticized her in ways.) read 1984 by George Orwell, or read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. Those are just some of the more well known dystopia stories. There are many good ones.

[Liz]

I tried to read The Fountainhead back in high school because I thought it sounded really good. One chapter in I quit and returned the thing to the library.

And oh my lord I just said 'back in high school.' That was a year and a half ago.

[Blue Kitty]

there was a contest at our school to read The Fountainhead, so now they are stooping to contests to get people to read this book

[Liz]

What was the prize for winning? If it was a good prize, I totally would have forced myself to read the rest of the thing.

[Blue Kitty]

I think it was some amount of cash and a chance to talk to her about the book, but you had to write a rather comprehensive essay on it

[Storm Rider]

What the fuck? Ayn Rand has been dead for years.

[Mnementh]

Ayn Rand was a hack who dedicated her life to constructing straw men defenses for acting like a complete jackass.

She's also guilty of circular reasoning and begging the question.

[Storm Rider]

Are you agreeing with me, or accusing me of those fallacies? Because if you really want, I can go through and explain specifically why Ayn Rand is a hack and tried to justify acting like a jackass, but I felt that my original statement sufficiently answered the question "Should I read anything by Ayn Rand?".

[Mnementh]

I thought it was pretty clear, since I used the pronoun she while quoting you and you're a dude, that I was pointing other logical fallacies that Ms. Rand was guilty of.

I'm agreeing with you.

[Storm Rider]

I wasn't sure if that was a subtle jab at what I said or not. Hence why I asked the question.

[Mnementh]

Ah, right then, well it's all cleared up.

[KvP]

So there's no libertarian here that's going to defend Rand? There's usually one on every board. Like a lot of groups, libertarians are much stronger in number on the internet than they are anywhere else, save maybe Boulder CO.

[Johnny C]

Yeah she can't write worth crap.

[Hat]

Ayn Rand is a lot like Thundercats. I enjoyed it a long time ago, and can't remember enough about it to particularly remember why I shouldn't like it, but there is a horrible feeling in my mind that if I ever go back to it, it will ruin all those fond memories.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I thought the same thing about the He-Man cartoons but they turn out to be just as awesome now as they were then. So chances are I'll go back and see what it's like. Thundercats I mean. Fuck Ayn Rand.

[Valrus]

you had to write a rather comprehensive essay on it

I actually did this when I was in high school. I've since recovered and am now living as a reasonably productive member of society. I don't like to talk too much about that dark and embarrassing time in my intellectual history, but I guess Rand was my first real exposure to that kind of philosophical thought. Since I wasn't very discriminating back then, I found it compelling.

[Dimmukane]

I'm actually reading the Fountainhead right now...I'll be honest, it's not horrible...it's basically General Hospital except with architecture instead of medicine.

[bryanthelion]

10 points to all the people who thought I was reading Ayn Rand because of bioshock,

Because thats the main reason right now, that and me being a liberal

[KvP]

Because thats the main reason right now, that and me being a liberal

I think you may have the wrong idea about this Rand character, sir.

[Emaline]

I had to read Anthem for a class. After reading the first chapter, I gave up, and started guessing all the answers on the weekly tests we had to take. I made at the very very least a B on each of them. That book was boring and predictable.


I read Atlas Shrugged because I heard it was good. I wish I would have never picked that book up ever. It was so boring. It just dragged on forever and ever.



Anyway, if you want something no one else has heard of read some Pynchon. Usually, when I bring him up people give me confused stares.

[The extra letter]

I saw the thread title in the list and thought "ahh, someone's been playing BioShock".

[bryanthelion]

I couldve sworn that someone said she was a liberal/liberaltarian


anywho I already placed a request at my library. That and Persepolis 2

[Johnny C]

A liberal and a libertarian are two very different things.

Rand is Objectivist, which is a classy way of saying "a gigantic bitch."

[MusicScribbles]

I always though she was just really cranky because she would work on her books late at night.
Anyway, even though liberal has different connotations to different people, it's very, very basic meaning sounds a bit like 'open-minded', while libertarian is a political philosophy, and, at its most basic, says that a person can do whatever they want to themselves or things they own, which is sort of anarchic.

[KvP]

I had a big post with links and everything about the differences between liberalism and libertarianism, but a fuse got blown and I lost it. Oh well.

Liberalism and libertarianism are different, as Johnny C pointed out. Libertarianism is, crudely put, the concept of free market capitalism applied to politics. They put heavy emphasis on civil liberties and are alike liberals in that regard, but are conservative fiscally, and believe in limited (way limited) government, and are alike conservatives in that regard. As a result, your average libertarian might be pro-choice, but pro-gun rights. They're against the Patriot Act, but also against anti-discrimination laws and hate crime legislation. They are anti-social programs and anti-regulation.

The current libertarian candidate for President of the US is Ron Paul, who's jockeying for the Republican nomination, unsuccessfully. Paul is notable for his campaign promises to dissolve the federal reserve, remove the United States from all international bodies and build a mexican-proof fence along the border. He's also voted against civil rights legislation, though I'll have to dig a link up for that, and he's very vocal about his distrust of young black folk. In my humble opinion, the man's a fucking nutjob that should be kept as far away from the presidency as humanly possible. But he has his fans.

As for Ayn Rand in all of this, it's a bit erroneous to call her a libertarian, she wasn't one, technically. But she's well regarded among libertarians for her ideals of individualism and capitalism.

[mberan42]

Anyway, if you want something no one else has heard of read some Pynchon. Usually, when I bring him up people give me confused stares.

Hardly. Even I have read Gravity's Rainbow, and I'm a nobody.

Pick a different author.

[Emaline]

I think the people in my town don't read much. They barely know who David Sedaris is.


But I still think Pynchon is a great read, and think anybody should pick him over Ayn Rand.

[Johnny C]

Read Jonathan Lethem.

Anyways, Ron Paul's favourite ideas of mine are either the return to the Gold Standard or the idea that there is no problem with the American government conducting business with countries that support the Sudanese genocide. In fact he was the only member of Congress to vote against a bill banning such contracts!

[bryanthelion]

dude David Sedaris is awesome
I dont like the fact though that Augusten Borroughs turned into David Sedaris.

[Valrus]

Read David Foster Wallace.

[Baggy]

Atlast Shrugged certainly drags on for a long long time.  I could easily have been split up into a trilogy of books.  I did think it was well written though.

Objectivism sucks, however.  It only works in her books where the "evil man of charity and humanitarianism" is so extreme in his incompetence and corruption that its impossible for him to be anything but the antagonist.  Objectivism is the opposite extreme to absolute communism and socialism, and neither one would work because we are HUMAN and therefore nothing is black and white and there will always be corrupt people who take advantage of an ideal system.

Atlast Shrugged is good to read with a grain of salt.  Don't let it change your life because it's a situation and system that can only work in stories.

[Valrus]

[KvP]

Also, Rand is / was an influence on Rush. So if you like Rush, chances are you've been subject to some Objectivist ideas, in some form or another.

[Emaline]

I like Rush. I like Rush a lot. I have a few Rush shirts I wear all the time.


However, the last person I dated was a communist. And maybe the one before that.


I don't claim to be for any sort of political system/belief because I'm too picky. They all can have their good and bad points.


But I still hate Ayn Rand.

[pilsner]

Surely you jest?  Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are the bread and butter of late teenage wannabe-intellectuals everywhere.

Mid teenage I think.  Most freshman I know of are already moving on to irony, magic realism, and pot, but not in that order.

[imapiratearg]

I had to read Anthem for a class.  I pretty much missed all the political stuff in it, and rather I was interested in the romantic parts.  I like that much of it.  The rest was mildly intriguing as a story.  Had I been aware of the Objectivism I probably wouldn't have liked it as much.

[Lines]

This thread makes me kind of happy to have never read Ayn Rand. Now I know I probably never will, and am still content.

[yelley]

i read the fountainhead. i liked it because i liked the story and a couple of the characters. i didn't try to think about it and its deeper meaning though. i don't read much fiction, so when i do it is purely for fun, not for thinking.

[KvP]

i read the fountainhead. i liked it because i liked the story and a couple of the characters. i didn't try to think about it and its deeper meaning though. i don't read much fiction, so when i do it is purely for fun, not for thinking.

I've got a question about the Fountainhead, actually.

At some other forum, Rand came up and some people dismissed her because supposedly, in the Fountainhead, a female character is sexually assaulted but is written as though she enjoys it (an extremely submissive character) I don't know the context of the passage or if it's even there, but it seems pretty damning on its face.

[Johnny C]

On an unrelated note,

Is any of her books worth reading?

WHAT THE HELL MAN

[MusicScribbles]

Johnnies, its not polite to correct grammars on teh internet.s
Geezer.

[ruyi]

the internet

[KvP]

HAY GUESS WHAT GUYS

Man, that movie's going to blow.

[CamusCanDo]

Terry Goodkind does not approve of this thread.