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[Narr]

Yeah, I have to disagree with the Zerg being underequipped in the air as well.  They have the single best air-to-ground unit in the entire game, and have probably the single best stationary defense against air with spore colonies.  Zerg are also IMMUNE to Terran ground game.  Mass some lurkers, burrow, drop a few shitclouds over them (you know, the cloud thingy that defilers can do) and they don't get hit.  Protoss against zerg just rip off a few psi-storms and let their zealots slice and dice to counter that same thing.

I realize every race has a chance against every other race, but for the most part it's protoss > zerg > terran > protoss.

[ScrambledGregs]

My strategy in RTS games was always to Turtle. I rarely won matches this way, but I guess I have that SimCity impulse to build a huge mass of buildings and try to defend them.

[beat mouse]

Yeah, I have to disagree with the Zerg being underequipped in the air as well.  They have the single best air-to-ground unit in the entire game, and have probably the single best stationary defense against air with spore colonies.  Zerg are also IMMUNE to Terran ground game.  Mass some lurkers, burrow, drop a few shitclouds over them (you know, the cloud thingy that defilers can do) and they don't get hit.  Protoss against zerg just rip off a few psi-storms and let their zealots slice and dice to counter that same thing.

I realize every race has a chance against every other race, but for the most part it's protoss > zerg > terran > protoss.

I've managed to rape zerg many a time using that tactic by simply using goliaths and tanks avec sci vessels and a few supporters.

[Frate]

If blizzard is smart they will keep the games separate. Diablo is their dungeon crawler, world of warcraft is their mmo, warcraft three is their hero unit rts and hopefully starcraft will remain their more massing/mixed tactics based rts. If they do that all their bases will still be covered.

I still think world of starcraft would own though, i want to be a zergling and run around eating people with 40 other zerglings.

[TrueNeutral]

It looks like they're doing just that.

I wish Blizzard would make an original game again, though.

[bringbackthemixtape]

"HELLGATE: LONDON".

Hey, I have a Hellgate comic. It's pretty killer.  =D

http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/300/13/13790.jpg

[Jackie Blue]

Well, for the first time since 2001 I have a compelling reason to buy a new computer.

I have played the single-player SC campaigns so many times it is retarded.

I thought the single-player WC3 and Frozen Throne campaigns were some of the most fun I've ever had playing a video game.

Here's hoping the SC2 single-player is rocking.  Those new units look sick.  In the best way.

And damn right Kerrigan better be back.  She's in the trailer, after all.

[defaultstring]

New footage from blizzcon shows a different take to single player mode.

Now you talk to certain people on your battleship/carrier?/overlord? to progress the plot.

You also have to decide what kind of units/upgrades to purchase before the missions, which is really interesting, and brings about a whole new level of strategy.
(Granted, they have "reccomended techs" for each level, but meh, whatev~ I like.)

Also, since the last post, much has changed.

I'm sooooooo excited.

When do you guys think it's coming out?

[KvP]

So, what, is it like Myth then, but it's Starcraft? I just cheated through all the silly "story missions" in WC3 where I had a force and had to keep it alive through an area, and played just the skirmishes and classic RTS missions. I was hoping they'd stop trying to RPG-lite-up their RTSes, but they seem pretty intent on it now.

[Ozymandias]

Actually, they're cutting way back on the emphasis on heroes and small group warfare in favor of the big epic battles again.

I love this idea. I hate being told what technology I can and can't have. This is basically like a big permanent tech tree that you manage outside of battles. Sounds good to me.

[defaultstring]

Actually, they're cutting way back on the emphasis on heroes and small group warfare in favor of the big epic battles again.

I love this idea. I hate being told what technology I can and can't have. This is basically like a big permanent tech tree that you manage outside of battles. Sounds good to me.

seconded.

The only problem with the focus on the characters is that they kinda mucked up Raynor's voice/persona.

They might change it though, there's hope.  The seigetanks got a major overhaul.

[MusicScribbles]

So did dragoons. There aren't any anymore, with an obligatory story reason for keeping them out this time. They have something akin to it now, but not the same. I think they're called immortals?

[defaultstring]

Yep, and they have hard shields.

Which make ballistics look like snowballs.
But apparently, infantry just plow right through immortals?

Some people are saying that this suggests a more rock-paper-scissors feel to the game, but I don't think so.

[3Z3VH]

I have to say, I am excited to see SC2 coming out, but I may not play much of it, with Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance coming out around the same time.

Just having the zoom feature in SupCom makes me wonder why RTSes never had it before.  I also like their Tech Level system where almost every unit has an improved version of it all the way to Tech 3, which allows you to choose the equivalent of a zerg rush technique, or work all the way up to the big bad Experimentals, no matter which race you chose.

The only thing that no RTS has ever delivered, that is the one thing I really dislike about RTSes, is that you know the game is over long before it ends.  I would like to see an RTS somehow allow for an "Amazing comeback" like in FPS matches.

[defaultstring]

The only thing that no RTS has ever delivered, that is the one thing I really dislike about RTSes, is that you know the game is over long before it ends.  I would like to see an RTS somehow allow for an "Amazing comeback" like in FPS matches.

I concur.

But the fact that most of the focus on developing the game is balance, it's easy to see that once that balance has been shifted one way or another, it's really hard to regain it.

Though, I must admit, the struggle is fun.

However, bigger maps, bigger matches, and through sheer luck of picking off stray enemies always helps in an unbalanced situation.

It might just be me, but I think WC3 was starting to solve this problem with the whole hero thing.  Spells, status effects, and the focus on micro-ing really brought in a certain amount of skill, unit, and spell economy that could really shift the battle one way or another.

But I'd really enjoy an unpredictable RTS. 
How do you think it'd operate?

[3Z3VH]

The biggest part of making it work like that would be to use an unlimited economy, like SupCom, but also by making structures MUCH quicker to build, and destroy.

[defaultstring]

Thor's up.

How do fellow SC players feel about these macro almost, hero-like units?

[3Z3VH]

Referring to the Mothership ?  I feel it is one of those things that just proves the game has gone on too long, and that if you have one, end it already.

[defaultstring]

Referring to the Mothership ?  I feel it is one of those things that just proves the game has gone on too long, and that if you have one, end it already.

 
                                                                 Nuclear Launch Detected


I kinda agree~

But it would give me such great satisfaction to take one of those down with a rag-tag group of marines, medics, air support and an EMP shockwave, then just go and wipe out their base.

*drool*  I can't wait.

[3Z3VH]

I am just curious what the Terran and Zerg 'heroes' will be.  I think for Terran they should just take the Science Vessel, and make an Uber Offensive version of it.

[defaultstring]

Well right now, it looks like Thor's going to be the Terran macro-unit.

It's like a huge seige tank-
on crack cocaine.

It can't move around real fast, so the new vultures (not sure what they're called...) can take out the Thor pretty easily.

As for zerg~

All I know is that it's going to have a lot (A LOT) of mucus.
Possibly some wings.
A fang or two?

[3Z3VH]

Well right now, it looks like Thor's going to be the Terran macro-unit.

It's like a huge seige tank-
on crack cocaine.

It can't move around real fast, so the new vultures (not sure what they're called...) can take out the Thor pretty easily.

As for zerg~

All I know is that it's going to have a lot (A LOT) of mucus.
Possibly some wings.
A fang or two?

Just make a Defiler able to fly and burrow, and you have something way more deadly than anything the Terran or Protoss could send at it.

[Storm Rider]

If I recall correctly, the Protoss Mothership is not a unit you can only produce once anymore. However, it can no longer attack air units, so it needs escorts. I think calling these units 'hero-style' is being a bit dramatic.

[3Z3VH]

Who needs to attack air units when you can black-hole their asses into oblivion ?

[Storm Rider]

But again, the black hole won't affect air units, from what I understand. We can't start making assumptions about the unit balance because the units are regularly being retooled. That's probably why the actual unit pages on the website have so little in terms of actual detail. Like, we have no fucking idea what the abilities of the Thor or the Twilight Archon or anything else are.

[defaultstring]

Game play footage shows that the black hole sucks up air units.

I'm just worried how the Mothership, Thor, or whatever the zerg monster/giga/ultra unit is, are going to work with the whole "big armies fighting big armies" promise that Blizzard is trying to keep true to.

While interesting, and most awesome, I'm worried about balance.

[3Z3VH]

And no matter how epic Blizzard thinks their StarCraft 2 Battles will be, SupCom has them dwarfed by a long shot... I mean you just can't imagine the carnage of 3 Fat-Boys rolling into your base with an escort of about 60 Tech3 Broadsword Gunships escorting them, just literally rolling over waves of your Tech1 and Tech2 defenders.

[KvP]

I'll probably play it so long as there isn't an emphasis on "spellcaster" units, troops that have to be micromanaged (select, activate ability, choose ability target) in order to be effective. WC3's emphasis on heroes and targeted spells in regard to strategy made it damn near unplayable for me.

As for SupCom and Total Annihilation before it, they never grabbed me, for whatever reason. Not my kind of RTS.

[Oli]

Game play footage shows that the black hole sucks up air units.

Even if you can black hole air units you might only be able to do a black hole once every 5 minutes (or whatever). I doubt they are going to make it the standard attack.

Edit: It might even end up like the nuke did in that you've got to wait for a while after deploying it. And think about it, how often did you actually get to use a nuke in a PvP match?

[3Z3VH]

And think about it, how often did you actually get to use a nuke in a PvP match?

Something tells me these huge units are going to be just as rare as a Nuke.  I am thinking the only reason Bliz put them in the game is to say "This game has gone on long enough, end it."

[defaultstring]

If you haven't already, check the starcraft 2 homepage.
Something wonderful just happened.

The Mothership has been confirmed, but it's so well balanced now.

Sadly, they got rid of the black hole~ (or so it seems)

Instead, the mothership has the following capabilities:
-A cloaking field that not only cloaks units, but buildings as well!
-A tweaked version of the planet cracker. Now it just has one big ass beam.
-And a tweaked version of the "time bomb".  It acts as an AOE spell now, instead of a huge personal sheild like last time.

I'm sooooo happy about this change.  Now the mothership isn't like the nuke anymore, in that the only reason why Blizzard put them in there was NOT to say that "game should be over by now".   Now these hero units are really contributing to gameplay strategies.

I love it so.

[Storm Rider]

It's not a hero unit. If you have the resources for it, you can make as many motherships as you want. However, I'm sure it's expensive as hell so if you have the resources to make a lot of them you're probably about to win anyway.

[defaultstring]

-.-

I'm just calling it a hero unit for the sake of conversation.  Call it what you will.

The game really should never be judged by how much time is left in the game or what units you have.  I've played many many games where it goes on for hours.

The whole "nukes tell you when the game is over" idea only applies to shitty money maps where people actually have the ability to make enough nukes or battle cruisers to make that statement true.

[KvP]

It's not a hero unit. If you have the resources for it, you can make as many motherships as you want. However, I'm sure it's expensive as hell so if you have the resources to make a lot of them you're probably about to win anyway.

See, but the only Starcraft map I still play is "Happy Hunting Grounds" or variants on its theme, which was near-limitless amounts of resources and plenty of satellite base locations. You could drag the game out for hours. I'd like to do that as well with SCII, but these units might throw it off, assuming you won't be able to set tech levels ala C&C in skirmish games.

[defaultstring]

I'd like to do that as well with SCII, but these units might throw it off, assuming you won't be able to set tech levels ala C&C in skirmish games.

ooo I'd actually like to see this.

hehe, that'd be fun to play a tier 1 only game.

hmmm time can only tell.

[Storm Rider]

Why on earth would you want to drag out a single game for hours?

[KvP]

Why on earth would you want to drag out a single game for hours?

You set up a team game in Happy Hunting Grounds, you and a friend against 3 to 5 computer opponents. Since everybody has the same amount of resources (practically infinite) it becomes a neverending slugfest. You can also afford to turtle, which is nice.

[will: wanton sex god]

to address a few topics:

Nukes: don't dictate teh end of the game, are pretty easily counterable.  you usually ahve a good diea of where itll be and you should have detectors int he form of ovies, obs or comsat set to ctrl+1 to find it.  if the nuke isnt falling somewhre where youd expect it probably isnt going to hurt too bad.  also they dont dictate the end becuase if you want to be silly you can fast tech them

lurkers+cloud=very counterable for terrans.  Tanks still hurt them, sci vessels can irradiate them.  If youre just kinda battling in the middle of the map simply dont advance as a suicide.  if theyre in your base you should have seen that they were goign with lurks to counter it/have what it takes t counter it anyhow.

tier 1 games: sometimes id play that way with my friends for fun, but terrans have the advantage of lifting cc's to what sould be flight only expos and harvesting mega resources there.

3v5c on mass money is maybe the least fun you can have in sc (of course in my opinion)  7v1 computer is where its at, this is of course assuming you backstab the other 6